1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:05,359 Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio podcast. 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: So this week's Thursday Therapy, we have Sarah Jane Hoe. 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: She's a Harvard Business School grad, Netflix star and manners 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: expert who founded institutes in China to teach manners and etiquette. 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: Her new book, Mind Your Manners is out now. So 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: the book provides readers the tools that can help us 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: all to thrive socially, professionally, and romantically at home and abroad, 8 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,159 Speaker 1: both in person and online. So let's see how we 9 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: can improve our manners friendship, social work, dating relationships, family, food, 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: and travel. Let's get around. 11 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: Hi, Hi Jana, how are you? I am well, Thank 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: you so much for inter It's such an honor. 13 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you're so sweet. I mean, it's an 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: honor to chat with you. Congrats because by the time 15 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: this episode airs, your book will be out, so I'm 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: so excited to get my hands on it too, because 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: manners is a big, big thing in our household. But 18 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: I love the fact that your book breaks it down 19 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: into the different parts too, because I've never really thought 20 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: about it in the dating and relationship world or the 21 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: friendship and social life world too. So I'm curious to 22 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: kind of break down the differences of where the manners 23 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: come in with that, Like I think in my mind 24 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: I know what it might be, but I'm just curious. 25 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: Like for you, well, first and foremost, did you grow 26 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: up in a house where you're like manners were the 27 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: number one thing at like the dinner table and so on. 28 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a great question. I grew up in 29 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 2: Hong Kong. Well, actually, by the age of fourteen, I 30 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 2: had lived in Papua New Guinea, the UK, Hong Kong 31 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: where my parents are originally from, and exit to New 32 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 2: Hampshire where I went to boarding school. I went to 33 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 2: Phillips Sister Academy, and my mom is, I don't know 34 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: if you've heard of the term tiger mother. Does that 35 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: book battle him of the Tiger Mom? 36 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: Okay, yep. 37 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: And that's how a lot of Chinese parents are in 38 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 2: Hong Kong. Mother's a particularly tiger. My mother was very demanding. 39 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 2: She was a very high achieving woman. And she she 40 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: was very demanding of me too. So even let's say 41 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: if I were at a we were having lunch with family, 42 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: friends or with family, if somebody's gloss was, you know, 43 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 2: was half empty, she would be kicking me under the 44 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: dinner table, motioning me to top up, you know, so 45 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: and so's tea cop or wine gloss. So I definitely 46 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: grew up and I do think that. I do think that, 47 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: and part of you know, my etiquete school that I 48 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: have in China, the reason why we chose not to 49 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 2: teach children but to teach mothers is because I think 50 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 2: it really begins with mothers and in the home. And 51 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: I think the most beautiful gift of a parent can 52 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: give their child as good manners. 53 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: So that's my one question with that is because we 54 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: are big manners table. You know, my daughter, especially she 55 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: has she's a little bit more of a difficult time 56 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: sitting at the table, and she's always moving or moving 57 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: her chair and I'm like, Jolie, you know, please sit down, 58 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: and then you know she's she'd rest her hand like that, 59 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 1: like all right, you know, don't don't put hair on 60 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: the table, keep her keep her legs down. And I 61 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: feel like I'm riding her. But and I don't want 62 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: to be that parents like Jolie puts your legs down, 63 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: Julie's put your hand down, or like Jase put your 64 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: hand down and it's like, but I'm also like, I 65 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: was raised on like manners and etiquette too at the table, 66 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,679 Speaker 1: and I think it's important because I don't just want 67 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: a bunch of wild animals at the table, so I 68 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: wanted to be enjoyable for everyone there. So do you 69 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: think that's because you were raised in that more tiger 70 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: mom era, like where do you think it's a bad 71 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: thing to ride the kid that much? 72 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 2: Then? Uh? You know, I think that as like in 73 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: the old times, parents are much more strict, right and 74 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 2: now especially with you know your you and I are 75 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: the same generation, and as millennials, we we are much 76 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: more I think we're much more softer and aware of 77 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 2: some of the mental health issues for our for our children. 78 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: But I do think that discipline is still very important, 79 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: and I don't regret my mother being, you know, disciplining 80 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: me and being strict with me, because when when you 81 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 2: go out into the world, and you know, I think 82 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 2: it's it also depends how old your child is. I mean, 83 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 2: if she's very young, then she probably has some issues 84 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: focusing right at such a young age. But I do 85 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: think that discipline and routine and you know, just good 86 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: parenting is. 87 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: Very important, right no, I mean I totally agree with 88 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: you there, and it's something that you know, I'm going 89 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: to continue to do. My fiance is very helpful with 90 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: me too as well, like we make sure that you 91 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: know it's it's not it's something that they you know, 92 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: not eating with their mouths, you know open, and you 93 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 1: know it's it's all of that. But I'm curious on 94 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: the flip side of things when you go into like 95 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: what are some manners in the dating and relationship and 96 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: friendship so area too that you talk about in your book. Yeah. 97 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: So the book is spread across five different chapters, so 98 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 2: there's love and relationships, dating relationships, family, Korea, food and 99 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: travel and and so you know, I'd say we can 100 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: start off with social I guess, but you know one 101 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: thing is that uh well, I always say, like one 102 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 2: thing that every could everybody could do better around the 103 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 2: world is greetings and introductions. And that's also when somebody 104 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: introduces two people, that is when it's very revealing if 105 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 2: they how they do it, you can you can tell 106 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 2: number one, I guess how they were raised, like in 107 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 2: their level of EQ and number two, uh, like how 108 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 2: good of a host they are a lot of people 109 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 2: would just say, oh, this is Sarah Jane. This is Jana. 110 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: She's also a Sagittarist. You're December second, right, she well, 111 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: she's December fifth. You two are both Sagittarist friends of mine. 112 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,799 Speaker 2: You know, Johnas from Michigan and Sarah James from Hong Kong, 113 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: and you know, you're both sort of newly married slash engaged, 114 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: and John is just about to have a baby or 115 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: just had a baby, and Sarah Jans you know, planning 116 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: on having kids. So being when you're doing introductions to 117 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 2: be able to give enough information about each person who's 118 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 2: met each other for the first time so that they 119 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: can easily continue a conversation and you can actually even 120 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 2: bow out that to me, is shows a very high 121 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: level of hosting or hostessing. 122 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: I like that. I feel like I feel like I 123 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,239 Speaker 1: do that because I always want everyone to be friends. Yeah, 124 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: and I want everyone to like get along or to 125 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: be able to talk or just like have something in common. 126 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: So I feel like I try to do that. Okay, 127 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: But on the dating side, what's the best manner that 128 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: you think is something that people should take away from 129 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: the book as well? 130 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: Oh, I think that well for dating, and actually this 131 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 2: can even apply to social too. The most attractive thing 132 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 2: about a post is how is conflict resolution? Because everybody, right, 133 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: when things are going well, everybody, it's easy, it's easy 134 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 2: to be on good behavior. But when something doesn't go 135 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: your way, how you deal with that that really shows 136 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 2: who you are as a person. And on the flip side. 137 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: So in my Netflix show Mind You Man is one 138 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 2: of my students, Rochelle. She told me during the dumpling 139 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 2: making session that when she was younger and just started 140 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 2: dating her aunties, so her mother's sisters told her, when 141 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 2: you first start dating a guy early on, disagree with 142 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 2: something or break a date, and that's almost. 143 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: Like a missed a test for what though, a test. 144 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: To see how he's going to respond. And you know what, 145 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: if he gets angry, if he gets aggressive, if he's 146 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: not okay with things not going his way, then those 147 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: are like red flags of I mean, even like abusive behavior. 148 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: Later down the line, ladies, listen up, that's a good 149 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: little I mean, I don't I low the game playing 150 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: in relationships. Having said that, that's a good one if 151 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: you're gonna do it. 152 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: And it's a test, right, especially if you're looking for 153 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 2: to be serious with somebody and you want to know 154 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: what they're going to be. Like everybody always puts on 155 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: their best behavior in the beginning. It's like the longer 156 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: you're in it, right, then everything else comes out. So 157 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 2: this is app You should absolutely be testing somebody early. 158 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: On, and you don't see that as games. 159 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 2: No, no, this is not manipulative, but because it should 160 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 2: be something because something always happens. Let's say you're meant 161 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 2: to have a date, but then you had to work 162 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 2: later the office, right, or something came up your boss 163 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 2: you needed to turn something in for like a deadline 164 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 2: was like pushed early, was brought forward right, Or you 165 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: just are not feeling well and you just don't don't 166 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: feel like going to the movies because you came down 167 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 2: with a cold. Right, So be who you are, but like, 168 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 2: don't be afraid to don't be afraid to express this. 169 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 2: And you know, I've one of my younger days, I've 170 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 2: been in relationships with controlling people, and I think so 171 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: have you, And how much could we have saved ourselves 172 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: if we had known these things sooner? So to me, 173 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 2: the sexiest man is somebody who is able to resolve 174 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: conflict in a calm and mature way, and I feel 175 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 2: that I have that in my husband. Where you know, 176 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 2: difficult conversations, how do you approach difficult conversations right? Are 177 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 2: you calm or do you get like you know? Do 178 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: you get dramatic and emotional and aggressive like you can? 179 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 2: I often say etiquette. People think etiquette is one big no, 180 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 2: it's one big limiting thing, like you can't do this, 181 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 2: You can't say that. People will come to me and say, oh, 182 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 2: Sarah Jane, but I have really bad etiquette because I'm 183 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 2: too honest, Like this person does not under that stand 184 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: the spirit of etiquette. Etiquette is enabling, It is empowering. 185 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: It will let you do what you want to do. 186 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 2: It will let you speak to the person you want 187 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 2: to speak to. It will let you set a boundary 188 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 2: that you want to set. It's all just about how 189 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 2: you do it. 190 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: Honesty is obviously the number one key and the best 191 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: thing to be, but it's how you also deliver that 192 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: is I think the etiquette and right and the manners 193 00:09:55,520 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: in it right exactly. Yeah, did you break up with 194 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: a boyfriend over text message? Did I see that on 195 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: your show? 196 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 2: It was on my show, It was on my New 197 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: York Times style profile. 198 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there you go. You know. So I'm curious 199 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: about that because if we flip the script, right, and 200 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: that's me and my my fiancee like to say a lot, 201 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: like all right, if we flip the script, how would 202 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: it feel on the other side? So if that flip 203 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: the script, like have you been broken up with on 204 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: a text message? And would you have appreciated that? 205 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 2: Well, nobody would appreciate its being broken up with overtext. 206 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 2: I probably, I mean, I'd probably have been was it. 207 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: A week moment? In manners with his Sarah? Like we 208 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:49,359 Speaker 1: all make is it? We all make mistakes. 209 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 2: Here's the thing New York Times for my style profile, 210 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 2: they shadowed me over like two three days, and of 211 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 2: course they take the one thing that I. 212 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: Say, well, obviously, welcome to being a select you know. 213 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: And I was like when I opened when I saw 214 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 2: that article, because they don't tell you, they don't give 215 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 2: you advanced notices, you know. And I saw that article 216 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 2: and I cringe, and I send it to my cousin Adrian, 217 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 2: who's like my bestie, and she was like OMG. And 218 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 2: then and I was like, oh, do I post this 219 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 2: or not? Because it's my neual time stole profile really 220 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 2: like the photo, but this headline. And ten minutes later, 221 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 2: when she finished reading the uticle, my cousin she was like, 222 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: you know what, this is actually the best headline and 223 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 2: I was like, you know what it is because it's 224 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 2: showing that etiquette is contextual and by the and and 225 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: so and and like it's also unexpected and I'm never 226 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: trying to pretend to be holier than thou or or 227 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 2: like you know, like I'm not Missgoddy two shoes. I'm 228 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 2: I like to say, I'm mismatterers with a touch of Machiavelli. 229 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 2: And and by the way, so that was on again, 230 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 2: off again boyfriend. He was really good controlling. It was 231 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: data here and I was just like here, I am, like, 232 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 2: you know, teaching my students to be there best selves. 233 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 2: And then on the other hand, I have this controlling 234 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: and insecure boyfriend who's calling all the time, made me 235 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 2: cry like before I show up on set. And by 236 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 2: the way, his ex wife had divorced him by email 237 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 2: and cecied his mother. 238 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: Oh so this is a track record then for his 239 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: life too. 240 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 2: I think it's okay to ghost, it's okay to break 241 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 2: up with a text when somebody's in denial and not 242 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 2: and not like and not accepting your decision. Right, he's 243 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: and he had trouble with like me saying boundaries. 244 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: Listen, girl, I've done it too, So this is not 245 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: me coming on to you like this is. I think 246 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: it's just one of those things where you know, if 247 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: that's your if if it's safer to text, you know, 248 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: if you if you feel safer to have that conversationation 249 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: over text, then that's the way to do it. You know. 250 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 1: I think there's adequacy in maybe not ghosting someone that 251 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 1: to me, I don't I've never liked even in the 252 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: dating world. I'm like, just say you're not in to me, like, 253 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: I'm actually fine with that. I've at least given that 254 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: respect to other people over text. I have a hard 255 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: time doing it on the phone because it's said uncomfortable why. 256 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: I don't want to upset them, but I also want 257 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: to speak my truth. So you know, I think there's 258 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: for me, at least in the dating world. I think 259 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: ghosting is very poor Etiquett and I don't think it's 260 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: really fair. I think you just be like, hey, I'm sorry. 261 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: I'm just either either lie or say I'm not into 262 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: you one of the two like just be like I'm 263 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: just not ready and you want to go be with 264 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: someone other girl tomorrow night. Fine, but just like be 265 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: honest like with or or just like let me know 266 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: or just don't like disappear as what I would. But 267 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: then again that shows like the guy's character. So any 268 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: time a girlfriend in the dating world is like, oh, 269 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: this guy didn't text me back, I'm like, well, then 270 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: you know what he was not worth, Like, he's not 271 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: your person. Move on next, you know, don't waste your 272 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: time totally. 273 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 2: And for me, I'll even just you know, delete that 274 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 2: person because I'm very much about moving on and not 275 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: looking in the past. I like to look forward. I 276 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 2: think that's a very Sagittarian trait. 277 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: What you're Sagittarius too, Yeah, I'm. 278 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 2: December five, you're December. 279 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: Two, I'm yeah. 280 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 2: And and so to me, it's like, you know what, 281 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 2: some people will like you, some people won't. Some people 282 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 2: can't date you because maybe they already have an existing 283 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: relationship or some issue going on their life. And but 284 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: so what like, move on next? 285 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: So what did post malone asked ask you for? 286 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: Are you talking about the Instagram posts that I have 287 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 2: of me and him holding chopsticks up to the camera 288 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 2: from from October. 289 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, so he reached out to you when he was 290 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: on tour, right. 291 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: No, so okay, No, so my friend, I'm my friend 292 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 2: was part of his tour. My childhood friend. Yeah, my 293 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 2: childhood friend. Uh. And so I just joined them. I 294 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: was in Singapore for F one which he was headlining, 295 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 2: and then I joined them in Hong Kong for a 296 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 2: part of his Asia tour. And we were at a 297 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 2: and we were at a Chinese restaurant in Hong Kong, 298 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 2: and when everybody sat down, there were two pairs of 299 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 2: chopsticks on the table. So for each Post that's in 300 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: a chopstick and out of chopstick, and pretty much like 301 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: everybody e stuff. For me was kind of confused. But 302 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: what I love about post is that Posty as we 303 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 2: call him, is that he is so secure. He is 304 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 2: so respectful of different cultures. This was like amazing to me, 305 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 2: Like I it was really unexpected, but so amazing to 306 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 2: learn that about him. He really wanted to understand like 307 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 2: the proper way in each culture of how to you 308 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 2: know of a custom or how to use a you 309 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: know of the food. So I explained and icclated to 310 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 2: every of the table. I said, there's an inner chopstick, 311 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: well this is the outer chopstick, and they're both situated 312 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 2: on the right hand side of your plate. But the 313 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 2: outside chopstick is the one that is used to bring 314 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: food from the lazy susan or from the common dishes 315 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 2: to your plate. It never touches your mouth, so it's clean. 316 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 2: And then the chopstick on the inside is the one 317 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 2: that brings food to your mouth. So that's like you're 318 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: personal that you know, with your salive on it. Ah, right, 319 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 2: isn't that fun? And she was the of a whole table. 320 00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 2: He was the only person who asked. You know, most 321 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 2: people would not, as they kind of be like, oh, 322 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 2: a little confused, a little embarrassed, but just see what 323 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,239 Speaker 2: other people do. And he said, oh, what are these chopsticks? 324 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: And I explained, and he is such a gentleman. Post 325 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: Malone is such a gentleman. 326 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: So there was no man or no manner problems with 327 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: post Malone. 328 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 2: I like that none. He told me some incredible one 329 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 2: that he taught you, just the way he treated people 330 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 2: and how he used humor to uh to diffuse like 331 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 2: any awkward situations, like he was always so relaxed and 332 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 2: you went to bring in humor. He's very funny and 333 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 2: he's incredibly nice, and he notices everybody in the room. 334 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: Oh that's that's that's beautiful. I love that instead of 335 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: because because I'm sure a lot of people are noticing him. 336 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: He's not one that's easy to hide. So it's that's that. 337 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: I love that. I love to hear that. That's great. 338 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: All right, favorite chapter in your book? Why and what 339 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: do you want the biggest takeaway to be for your book? 340 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 2: Oh? Favorite chapter in my book. Well, you know, writing 341 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 2: this book was really cathartic for me because I obviously 342 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 2: I bring a lot of anecdotes, case studies, a lot 343 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 2: of a lot of mini pro tips, but also a 344 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 2: lot of my failings, a lot of my personal stories. 345 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 2: I make myself very vulnerable in my book. And it's 346 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: a very meaty book. Like I wanted a book that 347 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 2: was that would scratch the service and be really practical 348 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: and help people see things in a different way. So 349 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 2: every single chapter, even writing the family chapter, I mean, 350 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 2: you know, nothing cuts us to the core like a 351 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 2: family conflict, right, and our family they really know how 352 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 2: to push our buttons because probably because they installed them. 353 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: And then writing the love chapter was it made me 354 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: like review all my relationships and it's a sad you know, 355 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: there have been a few relationships. 356 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we love to love. 357 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 2: And so that that was probably like one of the 358 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 2: most meaningful chapters to me, of which would because I 359 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 2: feel that I don't regret any any single relationship I've had, 360 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 2: even the bad ones, sure, because it taught me the 361 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 2: kind of person that I don't want to be and 362 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 2: the kind of person I don't want to be with. 363 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 2: And then the beautiful relationships, you know, the ones that 364 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 2: taught me how to love and how to be loved, 365 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 2: I'm also grateful for because it's also just helped me 366 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 2: be a better partner to my husband and realize that 367 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 2: like it's something that you really have to work on constantly. No, yes, yeah, 368 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 2: so I would probably say, like the love and relationships 369 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: chapter is one of my favorites. 370 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: And then what is the biggest takeaway that you want 371 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: for your readers? 372 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 2: My biggest takeaway for my readers would be that you know, 373 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 2: people people think, so like the way I approach this 374 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 2: book and the way I've really approached my life because 375 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 2: I've lived in so many different cultures, is that I 376 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 2: see myself as a microcultural anthropology. Just I went to Georgetown. 377 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 2: I was an English major, but my favorite class was anthropology, 378 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 2: which is a study of human behavior. And I feel that, 379 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 2: you know, you don't even have to go to a 380 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 2: different country to see a different microculture. You could, like 381 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 2: even in our one day. In our lives, we move 382 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 2: across many like even the office, different departments, or different 383 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 2: sets of friends. These are all different microcultures. And every 384 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: time I go I meet somebody new, I'm with a 385 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 2: new group of people or in a new country. The 386 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 2: first thing I'm doing is I see myself as what 387 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 2: we call in the field, and I'm observing and I'm thinking, 388 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 2: what are the codes of conduct here? How are people behaving, 389 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 2: how are they speaking, what is their accent, what slang 390 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,239 Speaker 2: are they using? Are they more aggressive or are they 391 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 2: more like Type A or are they Type B? You know, 392 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 2: And then I'm sort of unconsciously adjusting myself to make 393 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 2: them feel comfortable around me, because that is what etiquette 394 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 2: really is. It's about putting other people around you at ease. 395 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: And once they feel comfortable around you, then you feel 396 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 2: comfortable around them, and I feel that that is what 397 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 2: makes us human, which is belonging human connection, and it's 398 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 2: something that we need now more than ever, especially coming 399 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 2: out of the pandemic right where all of our social 400 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 2: skills are a little bit rusty. I mean, we all 401 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 2: went through a mental health crisis globally from lockups, from 402 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 2: being locked down, yeah, fan lockdowns. Yeah, and especially for children, 403 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 2: you know, for students who missed out on all that 404 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 2: socializing in college and school. 405 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for coming on 406 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: mind Down. I appreciate it, and everyone go get mind 407 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: your manners. It's out now. Thank you so much, friends, 408 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: appreciate you.