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Speaker 1: Welcome to Had the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're going to answer your listener questions. That

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Speaker 1: is right, buddy, We've got.

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Speaker 2: Some great listener questions to get to today. A listener

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Speaker 2: is asking about saving for or paying for a roof.

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Speaker 2: It's one of those big household expenses that maybe newer

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Speaker 2: homeowners aren't quite ready for.

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Speaker 1: Whether is the roof on fire?

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Speaker 2: Matt, and the roof is not yet a fire. We've

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Speaker 2: got a question about offsetting the high cost of adoption.

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Speaker 2: And another is asking if an ESPP and employee stock

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Speaker 2: purchase plan if it's worth the hassle. She might be

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Speaker 2: wondering if it's not all that is cracked up to be.

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Speaker 2: So we'll get to that plus some more during today's episode.

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Speaker 1: Right, sometimes just because it's the best money move doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean it's worth the hurdles that you have to go through.

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Speaker 1: So we'll talk about that more. You got to definitely

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Speaker 1: take that into account before you say, yeah, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: do that, because complication can be annoying. Yeah, speaking, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want to tell real quick Matt about it. I

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Speaker 1: feel like a cartoon character you kind of borrow one

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Speaker 1: complicated prices online and we all know this, right that

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Speaker 1: when we go somewhere to shop online that the price.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to really tell whether or not

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Speaker 1: the MSRP or the suggested price is based in reality

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Speaker 1: or not, And so we're often seeing discounts that are

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Speaker 1: much higher than we're used to seeing at traditional stores

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Speaker 1: back in the day, at least, like when you and

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Speaker 1: I were growing up, it's like fifty percent off was

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Speaker 1: a big deal. Now eighty percent off is par for

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Speaker 1: the course. It just so it feels right when you're

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Speaker 1: shopping online, I guess. So I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I don't pay attention to that quite

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Speaker 2: as much. Although there are a few manufacturers or retailers

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Speaker 2: when like that, I know, never do deals and even

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Speaker 2: seeing a twenty percent off is a huge deal, that's

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Speaker 2: right for them.

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Speaker 1: You get to know the retailer, you get to know

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Speaker 1: kind of their stuff, and you're.

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Speaker 2: Talking just like general retail, like Amazon, like Target, shopping.

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Speaker 1: On Amazon Target, or I think Amazon and Walmart in

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Speaker 1: particular two of the worst offenders in this. And I

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Speaker 1: was recently I'm not looking for pots and pans, but

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Speaker 1: I just saw this at pointed out of like some

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Speaker 1: pots and pans on Walmart dot Com were on listed

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Speaker 1: at two ninety nine. They were on sale for sixty

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Speaker 1: nine dollars. That's a huge discount, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, cool, that seems like a substantial discount. They're

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Speaker 1: touting this seventy plus percent savings whatever the heck it was.

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Speaker 1: And then I was like, I just want to see.

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Speaker 1: I just want to see, Well, what does it say

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Speaker 1: on Amazon if I go over there, and they they

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Speaker 1: were both on sale for the same price. So well, one,

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Speaker 1: there's that, right, So obviously it's not that crazy of

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Speaker 1: a discount. They're both offering it for the same price.

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Speaker 1: But Amazon had said, no, no, no, the normal suggested price

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Speaker 1: is ninety nine. So it was a thirty percent discount

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Speaker 1: on Amazon, but it was a seventy something percent discount

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Speaker 1: on Walmart's website. So just a heads up out there, Like,

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Speaker 1: I think it's really easy, especially especially if we don't

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Speaker 1: delay our purchase because we're so keen on getting a deal. Well,

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Speaker 1: we might actually get hoodwinked. It might not be as

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Speaker 1: good of a deal as we thought. It were a

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Speaker 1: deceptive advertising, yeah, or deceptive retail practices perhaps in this case,

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Speaker 1: and you see, they use those tactics to get us

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Speaker 1: to buy right away, even though because we're like, oh great,

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Speaker 1: it's never going to be this cheap again, so when

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Speaker 1: in reality is probably going to be that cheap tomorrow

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Speaker 1: and next week and maybe the month after. You're right,

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Speaker 1: there's legitimate deals to be had, and there's sometimes opportunity

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Speaker 1: or reason to pounce, especially if there's a decent return policy.

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Speaker 1: But you gotta be careful, got to be careful.

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Speaker 2: But simultaneously, you can't ignore that, you know, Like I

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Speaker 2: think you'd be deceiving yourself if you were to say that, oh,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't have an impact on me, right, Like the

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Speaker 2: list price the manufacturer suggests retail price, like all those

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Speaker 2: their data points, and whether we like it or not,

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Speaker 2: I think we do anchor ourselves to some of those

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Speaker 2: prices that are put out there in front of us,

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Speaker 2: you know, because like imagine you're giving an example of

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Speaker 2: it being diskind of like flip it on its head,

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Speaker 2: Like what if, for some weird reason, the list price

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Speaker 2: was like ten dollars, but in fact they have it

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Speaker 2: on sale or you know, it's now being sold for

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Speaker 2: fifty dollars, that'd be weird.

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Speaker 1: First of all that it would be that way.

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Speaker 2: But no matter what, no matter how much you wanted

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Speaker 2: that product, you would feel like you're getting ripped off,

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Speaker 2: even if to you it was worth it to spend

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Speaker 2: that money on whatever, whatever item it is. And so

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, it's important to keep in mind that

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Speaker 2: that's one data point. See what other competitors are offering,

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Speaker 2: what they're selling the item for, and you got to

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Speaker 2: figure out if it's if it's worth it to you

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Speaker 2: or not. But my next question is, you said you

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Speaker 2: weren't shopping for pots and paints. What did you go

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Speaker 2: dig in?

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Speaker 1: So, okay, I do peruse the deal websites from time

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Speaker 1: to time, like you were such a shopper, So I do.

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Speaker 1: I like slick deals and deal news. Those are good sites,

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Speaker 1: although I found myself using them far less because I

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Speaker 1: just am not. I don't like, you're happy with your

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Speaker 1: stuff right exactly, I don't need to. But I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: Walmart has this one day sale thing, and so I

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Speaker 1: like was like, oh cool, I'll take a look and

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Speaker 1: see what they got going on. And then I saw

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Speaker 1: this and I was like, wow, that's a massive arm.

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Speaker 1: Pots and pants are just fine. But I just like

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Speaker 1: it just I don't know. It set that off in

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Speaker 1: my brain. I was like, I want to see what

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Speaker 1: this ghoest for elsewhere hard to resist. The sirens call,

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Speaker 1: well I didn't buy them, so ultimately you did resist,

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Speaker 1: but you I don't even I want them. I went, look, well,

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Speaker 1: I was just I was curious and and now I know.

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Speaker 1: Just another data point in the fact that sometimes those

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Speaker 1: data points on the websites, the way they list them,

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Speaker 1: they're falsified when it comes to pots and pant Sorry, no,

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Speaker 1: they're falso, and they're basically like made up data points

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Speaker 1: to try to get you to do something that you

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Speaker 1: otherwise wouldn't do.

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Speaker 2: It's some like made up notion of what this thing

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Speaker 2: should go, right, and you can avoid buying more pots

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Speaker 2: and pants to do you all use cast iron at

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Speaker 2: your house.

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Speaker 1: By the way, this podskills we do sometimes. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: going to do it? You drop it's like twenty bucks

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Speaker 1: in this literally you can like pass them down to

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Speaker 1: your kids. Yeah. No, they're great. Yeah, and they're not

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Speaker 1: terribly expensive.

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Speaker 2: You never need a new popper pan. Again.

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Speaker 1: By the way, this podcast should cost ninety eight dollars

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Speaker 1: a month, but it's zero dollars a month think about

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Speaker 1: the savings.

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Speaker 2: It's too all right, Let's introduce the beer you and

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Speaker 2: I are enjoying during this episode is a cherry Pie Jammy.

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Speaker 2: This is another beer by Inner Voice Brewing out in Decatur, Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Looking forward to enjoying this one, and we will share

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Speaker 2: our thoughts at the end of the episode, no doubt.

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Speaker 1: All right, But Matt, let's get onto the listener questions.

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Speaker 1: If you have a money question, go ahead, record it

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Speaker 1: on the voice moment up on your phone. Send it

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Speaker 1: our way. We'd love to take it next week on

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Speaker 1: the next Ask Kind of Money episode. And if you

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Speaker 1: just want to like see the direction spelled out, go

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Speaker 1: to howomoney dot com slash ask. It's super simple, though,

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Speaker 1: and Matt, let's get to our first question of the day.

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Speaker 1: This one is about spending a lot of money on

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Speaker 1: a necessary home repair.

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Speaker 3: Hey, guys, Joe NuGen here from Nuego, Michigan, had a

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Speaker 3: quick question for you about buying a roof. I know

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Speaker 3: financial podcasts and some other shows I watch always talk

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Speaker 3: about buying a car and buying a house and those

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Speaker 3: big financial person just is, but I've never heard much

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Speaker 3: about purchasing a roof. Our house is twenty five years

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Speaker 3: old and has the original roof, so it's getting up there,

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Speaker 3: and I've gotten a couple quotes in there, up in

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Speaker 3: the twenty thousand dollars range. So I want to see

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Speaker 3: if you guys had a experience in buying a roof,

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Speaker 3: for any tips or tricks you can point me towards

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Speaker 3: to kind of make sure this process goes well financially.

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Speaker 3: I love the show. You guys have been great for

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Speaker 3: the last year and a half. I've been listening, saveing

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Speaker 3: me a ton of money and help me kind of

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Speaker 3: get my finances in an order. So thanks again and

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Speaker 3: hope you can answer my question. Thanks guys, By.

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Speaker 2: Joe, we are glad the show has been helpful and

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Speaker 2: we are going to answer your question right now.

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Speaker 1: Let's kip it, Matt hopefully.

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Speaker 2: What if we just like play somebody's voice home, We're

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Speaker 2: like next, just went on to the next one.

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Speaker 1: No, I do think we can. I was just gonna

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Speaker 1: tell Joe d I wyatt Man put your own new

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Speaker 1: roof on. Have you ever I have ever done that before?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: I never would you have done a.

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Speaker 2: Roof, not my own roof. So in high school it

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Speaker 2: was a mission toy, like a shed roof, but that's

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Speaker 2: no like literally this was It was an impoverished area

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Speaker 2: and we reroofed a bunch of houses and it took

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Speaker 2: It was really really stinking hard work, dude.

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Speaker 1: It's the hardest work, especially during the summer. I think,

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Speaker 1: cruise up on the in the middle of.

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Speaker 2: The summer and because it's like shingles and you know,

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Speaker 2: fiberglass assoholt, like you're wearing jeans. Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think I learned two things. A that it's not

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Speaker 2: necessarily rocket science, but b that it doesn't matter that

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Speaker 2: it's not rocket science. It's something that I don't want

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Speaker 2: to do. It is incredibly hard work. But yeah, a

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Speaker 2: roof is one of the most expensive things that you'll

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Speaker 2: have to replace on your home. I will say, though,

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Speaker 2: twenty thousand dollars. That is a lot of money, and

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Speaker 2: just want to throw this out there, truly, it sounds

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Speaker 2: really high, considering the average cost of a new roof

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Speaker 2: is maybe roughly half that. But you might have maybe

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Speaker 2: you just got a big old house and to go

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Speaker 2: along with that, you've got a big old roof. And

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Speaker 2: if you feel like your house is normal sized, we

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Speaker 2: just wanted to put that on your radar.

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Speaker 1: If you've got a sixteen hundred square foot house and

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Speaker 1: you're getting a quote for twenty crowds, like, it sounds

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Speaker 1: like it's too much. Yeah, like the last like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: I would live in a mc mansion. That it's eight

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Speaker 1: thousand square feet and like, okay, okay, you might be in.

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Speaker 2: Even four thousand square foot. I could, you know, it

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Speaker 2: depends on a number of things. How inaccessible is the roof,

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Speaker 2: what's the pitch if it's especially dangerous, you know, I

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Speaker 2: could see them charging more. But the last I had

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Speaker 2: a roof replaced on one of our renolds last not

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Speaker 2: last week, last year, and it was six thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: And so granted this is the first house Kate and

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Speaker 2: I lived in, but still six thousand dollars is a

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Speaker 2: far cry from twenty grand.

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Speaker 1: Yeah no, that's true. All right, So let's give our

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Speaker 1: best money saving advice, besides the not real advice of

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Speaker 1: doing it yourself, because Matt, you might do that.

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Speaker 2: I would not. I would not do it now, Okay.

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Speaker 1: The first thing to do.

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Speaker 2: I'm so bad they let high schoolers up on a roof,

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Speaker 2: to be honest.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 2: Like in retrospect, I'm like, wait, ante, I don't remember signing.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure I signed plenty of waivers, yeah, but I

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Speaker 2: don't necessarily remember doing.

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Speaker 1: I put on like some roof trusses, like a habitat

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Speaker 1: for humanity build. That's different though, you trust. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: pis me the support for the roof. Oh like in

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Speaker 1: the attic Yeah yeah, no, no, no, like literally really heavy

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Speaker 1: and you're doing with a bunch of people. But on

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Speaker 1: the roof putting on the.

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Speaker 2: Shovels where you just like it's the shovels with a

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Speaker 2: little gritted you know, with like old teeth, and you're

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Speaker 2: popping the nails up and doing the whole thing. DoD

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Speaker 2: it was.

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Speaker 1: It was hardcore. I bet I believe it. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: I think what we would recommend, get a bunch of quotes, right,

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Speaker 1: I'd even ask neighbors. I'd ask local friends, maybe who

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Speaker 1: to they they've used before. Start dialing Matt, one of

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Speaker 1: our our friends Center text message out yesterday. He's looking

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Speaker 1: for somebody in HVAC. That's the best thing, like tap

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Speaker 1: your friends. There's like seven of us on that text chain.

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Speaker 1: But he's a dude, So you got send me your referrals.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get some quotes. And that's a brilliant

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Speaker 1: way to get get going. When you need an expensive

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Speaker 1: home repair, like if you're replacing a water heater, I

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Speaker 1: would say you might just need two or three quotes

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Speaker 1: because it's just overall less expensive. You're going to find

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Speaker 1: smaller variation amounts typically, but with the roof you might

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Speaker 1: want more.

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Speaker 2: Well, the principle is still the same, yes, right, but

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Speaker 2: you're more likely to get the best discount by getting

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Speaker 2: more quotes. Even with the water heater. But because it's

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Speaker 2: such a smaller scale, it's like, is it worth all

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Speaker 2: the additional time, Say.

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Speaker 1: Fifteen percent on one goes further than saving fifteen percent.

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Speaker 2: Of the one hundred percent? Yeah, fifteen plus fifteen equals

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Speaker 2: one hundred or really.

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Speaker 1: Get it math yep. So with the roof, yeah, get

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Speaker 1: even more quotes, I'd say, and you might be able

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Speaker 1: to save thousands by doing that, which is totally big

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Speaker 1: money saved. And getting those quotes takes time, but it'll

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Speaker 1: be well worth it because most roofers they're not going

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Speaker 1: to charge you any money to come out and give

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Speaker 1: that quote. And then I would say, be sure to

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Speaker 1: get quotes from companies that are like since and insured.

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Speaker 1: You might get a cheaper quote from a company that

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Speaker 1: isn't a referral from a friend and he's like, ah,

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Speaker 1: my buddy does this on the side. But then you're

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Speaker 1: kind of taking on a lot more risk if you

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Speaker 1: go that route. I would be a little nervous, especially

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Speaker 1: with this thing that you know, if it leaks, if

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Speaker 1: there's problems with your roof, that presents even bigger issues

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Speaker 1: for your house. So I would want to make sure

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Speaker 1: I hired a reputable company to do the work.

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Speaker 2: So kind of going back to Joel's water heater example, well,

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Speaker 2: you know it's probably going to need to be replaced

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Speaker 2: as soon as possible when it goes out. If not, Chara, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 2: which is you know, might be fine as the tempature

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Speaker 2: warms up because it's the cheaper fix. Hopefully you will

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Speaker 2: have the cash on hand, most likely in the case

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Speaker 2: of a water heater. If not, though, you might end

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Speaker 2: up putting that on a credit card sadly, But with

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Speaker 2: a roof, we typically have a lot of lead time.

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Speaker 2: That's what sounds like is the case with Joe. Sounds

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Speaker 2: like he knows the roof is approaching the end of

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Speaker 2: its life. Maybe someone is out there and they're looking

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Speaker 2: out the roof and the shingles are starting to curl

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Speaker 2: a little bit. That lead time provides us with the

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Speaker 2: ability to start socking away money beforehand.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like your tires typically, right, Like, you

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Speaker 1: don't just all of a sudden wake up and they're bald.

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Speaker 1: You know, you've known for months and months and months

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Speaker 1: potentially longer. Hey, this day is coming, This day is coming.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to need new tires. And it gives you

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Speaker 1: the ability to save up for it in advance instead

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Speaker 1: of just like being shocked into having to spend eight

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Speaker 1: nine hundred bucks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, as a homeowner, we hope that you are already

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Speaker 2: saving up just like a decent savings chunk for home

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Speaker 2: and maintenance. And if you don't have the cash, you know,

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Speaker 2: if you don't have the money saved up in the bank,

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Speaker 2: and the roof needs to replace as soon as possible

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Speaker 2: because it's leaking, maybe it's doing more damage and you're

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Speaker 2: starting to have stains on your ceiling. Well, in that case,

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Speaker 2: you might need you might be forced into financing the fix.

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Speaker 2: But we just want to point out that the ability

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Speaker 2: to save ahead of time cash is king in this case,

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Speaker 2: and depending on how you budget, maybe that means simply

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Speaker 2: creating another like savings bucket, right, another sinking fund, but again,

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Speaker 2: hopefully this can easily be something that you funnel dollars towards.

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Speaker 2: When it comes to your home maintenance category.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we've typically talked about how one percent of the

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Speaker 1: purchase price, but I mean, let's say about the home

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Speaker 1: ten years ago, that wouldn't be accurate. So let's say

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Speaker 1: it's one percent of the value of the home currently

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Speaker 1: is likely what you're going to spend in maintenance in

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Speaker 1: a given year. It's important to know that as a homeowner,

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Speaker 1: you own a five hundred thousand dollars home, cool, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna need to have five grand set aside four potential fixes,

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Speaker 1: and some of that won't occur in that given year,

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Speaker 1: and then you're going to have a big year where

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Speaker 1: you've got to put on a new roof, right, and

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Speaker 1: so you want to have that money on hand for

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Speaker 1: that those eventual fixes. That's part of home ownership, and

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Speaker 1: it's one of the frustrating parts. I would say I'm

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Speaker 1: owning a home sometime certainly gets expensive well. And so

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Speaker 1: let's say, Joe, I don't know if you have the

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Speaker 1: cash or not, but if financing is your option, because again,

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Speaker 1: roofs are expensive and you don't have enough in cash

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Speaker 1: yet to pay for it, some roofing companies are going

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Speaker 1: to offer you a payment plan with a somewhat reasonable

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Speaker 1: interest rate, but I would say that those are often

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Speaker 1: akin to taking out a personal loan, which isn't our

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Speaker 1: favorite thing. Personal loan rates aren't great these days because

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Speaker 1: rates in general are borrowing aren't the best, and it

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Speaker 1: might make sense, I would say, to instead of going

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Speaker 1: in that direction, to go with home equld line of credit,

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Speaker 1: particularly from your local credit union. And let's say you've

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Speaker 1: only got like ten thousand dollars in savings above your

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Speaker 1: basic emergency fund level, maybe do a mix of both

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Speaker 1: half and half instead of like financing the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: use some of the cash that you have on hand,

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Speaker 1: and then take out the home equity line of credit

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Speaker 1: to help pay for the rest. But again, with home

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Speaker 1: equity line of credits, those rates have risen substantially two

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Speaker 1: over the past couple of years, so make sure you

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Speaker 1: have a plan to pay it off in short order,

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Speaker 1: even if you take that debt out and you're like, man,

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Speaker 1: it's eight percent. Eight Percent's not fun. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be paying eight percent on anything. But if you're like, listen,

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Speaker 1: I can get this paid off in ten months, I've

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Speaker 1: got you know, if I put this much money towards

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Speaker 1: it every single month. Just make sure you have a

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Speaker 1: plan so there's not just lingering there, and that you're

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Speaker 1: not maybe even tapping that home equity line of credit

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Speaker 1: for other purposes in the future. It's nice to have.

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Speaker 1: It can be a great backup financial product for homeowners

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Speaker 1: to have looming in the distance, but most of the

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Speaker 1: time the goals to not use.

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Speaker 2: It at all. Totally. Yeah. Okay, So one thing worth

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Speaker 2: asking the different roofing companies that are coming out is

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Speaker 2: if there has been any damage at any point to

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Speaker 2: the roof, because if so, you might be able to

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Speaker 2: get that roof replaced with an insurance claim. If there

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Speaker 2: is evidence that the roof has sustained damage, that's a

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Speaker 2: that's a fairly common claim to make, and then you'd

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Speaker 2: only be on the hook for your deductible And well,

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Speaker 2: if you're like Joel, you still wouldn't make that claim

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Speaker 2: because you're keeping your deductible sky high?

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Speaker 1: Person, did I actually say exactly what my deductible was

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Speaker 1: on this last incident?

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Speaker 2: I believe because I know what it is, but I don't.

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Speaker 2: I think it's because we talked about on the show

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Speaker 2: twenty thousand, right.

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Speaker 1: It was eighteen Yeah, okay, So I made to claim

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Speaker 1: high because when the tree fell through my roof, we

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Speaker 1: were talking about fifty plus thousand dollars worth of damage

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Speaker 1: and it was worth it.

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Speaker 2: But then it ended up being even more than fifty grand.

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Speaker 2: You're glad that you made the claim instead of being.

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Speaker 1: Like, maybe we'll just try to make this event or so.

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Speaker 1: But that means that most of the time hail damage

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Speaker 1: hits my roof. Guess what, Sorry, it's not a claim

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Speaker 1: for me because my deductible is set so high, which

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Speaker 1: lowers my premiums, which is awesome, which means I'm saving

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Speaker 1: more money. But yeah, if you have a lower deductible

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Speaker 1: amount and this is the case, you're right, math, that

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Speaker 1: could be a good Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Overall, the goal of homeowners insurance is to not use

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Speaker 2: it unless we are talking about a massive expense like

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Speaker 2: Joel experienced last summer. But if there isn't any hail damage,

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Speaker 2: at all.

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Speaker 1: Well, of course that's not a route that you'll be

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Speaker 1: able to take.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, as we're thinking through like practical

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Speaker 2: strategies or tips, don't take the cheap route and not

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Speaker 2: for the like the really crappy inferior shingles in order

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Speaker 2: to save money. I've found that firsthand, the nicer architectural

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Speaker 2: shingles are the actual shingles thicker as well because they

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Speaker 2: don't just look better, they actually last a whole lot

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Speaker 2: longer as well.

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Speaker 1: They're warrantied for a longer period I think. Is that okay,

403
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Speaker 1: the traditional shingles are warranty for like fifteen to twenty years,

404
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Speaker 1: and architectural are warrantied for thirty. And yeah, I see

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Speaker 1: in my parents neighborhood, which was built like ten years ago,

406
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Speaker 1: and it's like the people with the architectural shingles, their

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Speaker 1: roofs look a whole lot better than.

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Speaker 2: Something who after for the cheaper ones, they just look

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Speaker 2: better too. And one last bit too, I'll say, especially

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Speaker 2: once you get that roof replaced, and anybody else who

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Speaker 2: doesn't have a roof that needs.

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Speaker 1: To be replaced mediately, I guess.

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Speaker 2: But just to keep that thing clean, I think some

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Speaker 2: roofs they don't need it because they're prettyteep, and so

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Speaker 2: the leaves and all the junk kind of.

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Speaker 1: Falls right off. But I know, like like our first house,

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Speaker 1: the pitch of the roof was.

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Speaker 2: Like it's an old school bungalow, and the leaves would

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Speaker 2: stack up, man like the leaves and the sticks, and

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Speaker 2: you got to get that junk off there because if it.

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Speaker 1: Stays up there, the roof stays wet.

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Speaker 2: And when the roof stays wet, that's when moss likes

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Speaker 2: to start growing on the roof, which then causes more

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Speaker 2: moisture to be there on your roof, which causes your

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Speaker 2: shingles to break down. So like literally just getting up

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Speaker 2: there with a blower keeping that thing clean, that's the

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Speaker 2: way to go.

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Speaker 1: The bob VA love having money a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of have you seen folks doing the detergent thing as well,

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Speaker 2: like a sprinkling detergent. I've heard folks talk about that before,

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Speaker 2: but right now, well, I think that's a bad idea

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Speaker 2: because it gets really slippery because they think, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, a close detergent keeps it from growing

434
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:51,680
Speaker 2: on there. But I've read about how that can actually

435
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,919
Speaker 2: break down shingles as well, So I don't think that's necessary.

436
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:54,800
Speaker 2: I think all you need to do is just get

437
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:56,840
Speaker 2: up there with the blower plast others leaves off, and

438
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:57,560
Speaker 2: you're going to go there.

439
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,280
Speaker 1: You go, all right, Joe, best of luck man andpefully

440
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,639
Speaker 1: you're able to get an awesome roof replacement for a

441
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:03,240
Speaker 1: lot less than.

442
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:03,840
Speaker 2: The current quote.

443
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:05,879
Speaker 1: All right, now, we've got more questions to get to

444
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 1: on this episode, and we're going to take another one

445
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,240
Speaker 1: actually on shelter and whether or not landlording is ethical.

446
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:21,639
Speaker 1: We'll get into that and more right after this. All right, buddy,

447
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 1: we are back from the break.

448
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:24,800
Speaker 2: Let's hear from the listener who is looking to make

449
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,800
Speaker 2: the most of a work perk. This is something that

450
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,479
Speaker 2: her employer is offering.

451
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,480
Speaker 4: Hi, Jolan Matt. My name is Madison from New York.

452
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,960
Speaker 4: I'm actually a double question caller from episode seven hundred

453
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 4: and forty two. My question is about employee stock purchase

454
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,680
Speaker 4: plans and if there were at the hassle. I work

455
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,560
Speaker 4: at a large public company that offers an employee stock

456
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 4: purchase plan with a fifteen percent discount that buys every

457
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,080
Speaker 4: six months. With my contribution percentage and income, I set

458
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,280
Speaker 4: aside about thirteen hundred dollars every six months that goes

459
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,960
Speaker 4: towards this stock purchase at the discount. This past year,

460
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,679
Speaker 4: I sold some of my stocks to add money to

461
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,680
Speaker 4: my individual brokerage account and diversify my holdings outside of

462
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 4: retirement accounts. I only hold this company stock and the

463
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 4: bit that I moved over to my brokerage, which I

464
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 4: invested in an index fund. When filing my taxes this year,

465
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 4: it was quite a headache to correctly enter the stock sale,

466
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,199
Speaker 4: and I no longer qualified for the free TurboTax. I

467
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 4: don't have much wiggle room to contribute more money to

468
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,720
Speaker 4: my individual brokerage account. So my question is is it

469
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 4: worth a hassle to be in this ESPP program? Does

470
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,200
Speaker 4: it make sense to sell some of this company stock

471
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,959
Speaker 4: to diversify my holdings. I'm usually all for buying and holding,

472
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 4: but I'm concerned about overinvesting in this company that I

473
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 4: work for, just because of a fifteen percent discount. Love

474
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,640
Speaker 4: the pod, thank you so much, and interested to hear

475
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:46,879
Speaker 4: what you guys have to say about this.

476
00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 1: All right, Matt, it turns out Madison is a DQC QC.

477
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,680
Speaker 1: Yeah double, what did she say?

478
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:58,680
Speaker 2: Double? Question, ask question color. She said, dqah, I.

479
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,640
Speaker 1: Think she's a caller. Yeah, so Madison, thank you for

480
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 1: submitting another question, and let's talk about espp's Matt. Not

481
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: everybody has access and in fact, I never had access

482
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 1: to one when I was employed in the traditional workspace.

483
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 1: And the truth is, when you get to the heart

484
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 1: of the question, normally you don't want to own stock

485
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 1: of the company you work for. You already depend on

486
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,159
Speaker 1: that employer for a paycheck, that's right, and so you

487
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 1: don't want to make sure that like, oh, is the

488
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 1: company succeeding, like are they is the stock going up

489
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:27,360
Speaker 1: in value?

490
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 4: Like?

491
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 1: You don't want to be dependent on your employer for

492
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,679
Speaker 1: your investments to grow as well. That's putting a lot

493
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 1: of eggs in one basket. And so the ESPP is

494
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 1: a fantastic perk to have, though, particularly because of the

495
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 1: discount you're offered. And that's the whole reason to participate.

496
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 1: It's not because you actually want to hold on to

497
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 1: this employer stock. It's because you want to take advantage

498
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,959
Speaker 1: of some arbitrage. And so while some of your coworkers

499
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: might be doing this, they might not be giving this

500
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 1: the same level of detail that Madison is there's some

501
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: you can do the ESPP right and you can do

502
00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 1: it wrong. And so the goal isn't to own the

503
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,919
Speaker 1: disc on the stock for years and years. It's to

504
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 1: snag the discount, to play this arbitrage game properly, and

505
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 1: really to take the approach that Madison's taking. Matt, I

506
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 1: feel like she's using the ESPP properly at this point.

507
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 2: Exactly, No, totally, Yeah, what she is doing is spot on, Madison.

508
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 2: You're buying the discounted stock, but you're not holding onto

509
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 2: it longer than you need to the most clutched part

510
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 2: of this whole thing is to create a process to

511
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 2: prevent you from I think, acquiring too much company stock,

512
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 2: which is going to of course ramp up that risk level.

513
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 2: And so selling the discounted stock that you've acquired sooner

514
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 2: rather rather than later is what we would suggested. It

515
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 2: sounds like you're doing just that, and for qualified ESPP plans,

516
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 2: that means selling the stock at least a year after

517
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 2: the purchase date and then two years after the offering date,

518
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 2: and that's going to allow you to not hold onto

519
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 2: it too long, but while still ensuring that you receive

520
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,120
Speaker 2: a more favorable long term capital gains tax rate.

521
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And so much of what your specific capital

522
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 1: gains tax rate looks like it depends on your income. Right.

523
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,880
Speaker 1: Some people can even dial it into the point where

524
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: they're paying a zero percent capital gains tax rate, which

525
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 1: is pretty sweet. But here's the thing too, you could

526
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 1: sell the stock even sooner and you could opt to

527
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: pay more tax on the gains instead of holding it

528
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 1: longer and getting the preferred tax treatment. The shorter term

529
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,239
Speaker 1: rate means that your profit would be taxed at your

530
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: ordinary income tax rate. And that's not a bad way

531
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,400
Speaker 1: to think about it either, because you know, slightly more

532
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,199
Speaker 1: tax on free money, it's not the worst thing in

533
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: the world. That's a personal decision with how comfortable you feel,

534
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: I guess Madison holding onto the stock and how much

535
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: money you've built up in other retirement accounts. It comes

536
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 1: down to what risk and volatility you feel comfortable with.

537
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: But it also comes down to what tax bracket you're

538
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: currently in. So if you're a super high wayere earner,

539
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,360
Speaker 1: you might be willing to roll the dice hold onto

540
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: that stock for longer because you know it's going to

541
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: result in even more tax savings. But I would say,

542
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: for like the average middle class person with a normal income,

543
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 1: selling even sooner can make sense because that tax rate

544
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 1: really might not be that much higher than the capital

545
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 1: gains rate. Yeah.

546
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if she is married or not,

547
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 2: but like, let's say she is and her AGI is

548
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: below ninety thousand dollars. Well, Madison, you'd actually pay less

549
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 2: than fifteen percent, which would then in turn make that

550
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 2: quick sale even smarter. So you mentioned not having enough

551
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 2: flexibility to contribute to an IRA and this ESPP, Well,

552
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 2: what if every time you sold money from your ESPP though,

553
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: let's say you took that out and you funded your

554
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 2: roth IRA. In my mind, that actually offers you the

555
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 2: best of both worlds, right where you have the ability

556
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 2: to fund one of the most important flexible retirement accounts

557
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 2: out there while also playing the arbitrage game getting the

558
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: discount that you're entitled to as an employee of your company.

559
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 2: You're basically taking the bird in the hand getting that

560
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 2: fifteen percent and not necessarily counting on or looking forward

561
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 2: to that favorable tax rate or stop going up in

562
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 2: value of course either.

563
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I like that, Matt, I like kind of

564
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: you're playing both sides of the it's a very coin.

565
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 2: It's a very safe benefit. Just like let's go ahead,

566
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: get the fifteen percent, Yeah, give the locked.

567
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 1: In discount, and then once you're able to avoid the

568
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 1: worst levels of taxation from that benefit, you go ahead

569
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: and turn that money into ROTH IRA dollars contributing to

570
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: that and in that way, I think you're making hey

571
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 1: while the sun shines, but you're also taking You're not

572
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: leaving opportunity of the ROTH dollars on the table. You're

573
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: contributing to one of the most important retirement accounts that

574
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 1: people have access to. I think that's exactly what I

575
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: would do right. I would sell that stock and then

576
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: I would put those now free dollars into a ROTH.

577
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: I would buy index funds like Madison is already familiar with.

578
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: And then you're diversifying your holdings, you're reducing your company

579
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: stock exposure, and you're reducing future tax liability for yourself

580
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,239
Speaker 1: as well. And one of the things she mentioned at

581
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: the end of her question, Matt was not qualifying for

582
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: the free turbo tax. I don't think that's a big deal, though,

583
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: I would say that there are other free or cheap

584
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 1: services that you can look into and use instead, you know,

585
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: try using free tax USA. A lot of how to

586
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 1: money listeners seem to really dig that one. I think

587
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: you pay fifteen bucks for state filing, and it's free

588
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: to file your federal return. Cash app taxes is completely

589
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: free on both accounts. The IRS has their new filing service.

590
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: You can look at any single one of those and

591
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 1: it's not like you're giving much up or costing yourself

592
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: much more, or or maybe even consider hiring someone to

593
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: help you with your taxes right if you feel like

594
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: they're getting too complicated for you to handle yourself. But yeah,

595
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 1: I would say keep using the ESPP to your advantage,

596
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: even though it adds maybe a little bit of annoying

597
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: paperwork at tax time. I just think it's worth it.

598
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: I think it's maybe not quite the same as it

599
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: as leaving free money on the table with a four

600
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 1: ROH one K match that would be almost like an

601
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: egregious personal finance and that almost nobody should be committing.

602
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: But not taking advantage of the ESPP isn't quite on

603
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: the same level. But it's something that I wouldn't want

604
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 1: to pass up. As somebody who likes a good deal,

605
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: who likes a good discount, as we established at the

606
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: beginning of this episode, I would want to be taking

607
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 1: advantage of that, but I would want to do it

608
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: in the most optimized way.

609
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah, I think it kind of comes down to

610
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: what it is that you care to do with your

611
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: life medicine, because on one hand, like I'm totally with you,

612
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: like I would take advantage of it, but I'm also

613
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 2: a nerd, like I want to optimize every single like

614
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 2: I use five different credit cards every single month that

615
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: I spend in different categories of spending in order to

616
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 2: maximize the like the cash.

617
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: Back that I receive. Not everybody does that.

618
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: Some folks just want to do the straight I want

619
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: to get earn just a solid two percent across the board.

620
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,959
Speaker 2: And if so, and if Massen, if that's more your speed,

621
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: I would say it may not be worth it because

622
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 2: she I think the details matter, and she mentioned like

623
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 2: the numbers she said was thirteen hundred dollars goes in

624
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 2: every six months, so she's looking at twenty six hundred

625
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: dollars over the course of a year. You're looking at

626
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 2: a fifteen percent discount, and so when you run the

627
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 2: numbers on that, that's three hundred and ninety dollars of

628
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: benefit essentially that she's receiving, which on one hand, three

629
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 2: hundred ninety dollars in your wallet right now.

630
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: Like, okay, I'll take that.

631
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 2: That's a chunk of spending money, right But if you

632
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 2: are looking at how much you could be socking away

633
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: in an IRA, it's a little extra. Or do you

634
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 2: compare that to how much you could be socking away

635
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 2: in your four o on k oh, Well that's hardly

636
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 2: It hardly puts a dent in it.

637
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, So something's all got our threshold too, right, Yeah,

638
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: So what we're willing to jump through and how much

639
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: savings is going to take to pull that off, Like

640
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: we talk about opening a new bank account for or

641
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: an extra like five percent yield? Do it if you're

642
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: with one of the big banks, go to one of

643
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: our favorite online banks and go from zero to five percent.

644
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: But if you're at a bank that's paying four and

645
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: a half percent and you go to a bank it's

646
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: paying five percent and you've got five thousand dollars in

647
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: your savings, makes less sensey, yeah, exactly. And it depends

648
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: too on what you enjoy, because for somebody who likes

649
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: who's a nerd well, okay, like izer with some budget,

650
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: not because it brings me a whole lot of financial benefit,

651
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: but because I also I kind of enjoy it. I

652
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: kind of enjoy keeping it with my different credit cards,

653
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: and so Madison coomes That's why I led with. I

654
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: think it comes down to how it is that you

655
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: want to spend your time, because you can't always justify it.

656
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's hard to make the numbers work when they're

657
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: not as large, right, So sometimes you have to say, well,

658
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: I'm just doing this because this is who I am. Yeah,

659
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: this is what I enjoy it. And maybe you get

660
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: started off again kind of like we talk about too,

661
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 1: getting when you start investing and you're doing twenty bucks

662
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: a month, like it doesn't feel like a lot of money,

663
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: but that does matter, and you're also getting the muscle started.

664
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: So maybe at some point Madison, you know, continues to

665
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: earn more and amount of money that's going into the

666
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: SPP continues to grow. The fifteen percent discount means it's

667
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: an even bigger benefit for her in terms of overall

668
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 1: dollars saved. And so yeah, maybe you want to do

669
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: that because you realized in the future it's going to

670
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 1: provide even bigger dividends.

671
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 2: Totally. I think that could make a lot of sense.

672
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 2: Let's hear from another listener. This is a listener who's

673
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: looking to grow his family, but he's looking to do

674
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 2: it affordably.

675
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: Let's hear Joel.

676
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 5: Heidi mat Joel. This is Steve in Delaware, Ohio. My

677
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 5: wife and I recently found out we're not able to

678
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 5: have children, so because of that, we are going to

679
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 5: go the adoption route. I wanted to know if you

680
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 5: guys know of any kind of grants or benefits or

681
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 5: tax credits or anything like that to help with that process.

682
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 5: Here in Ohio, there is a ten thousand dollars tax

683
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,959
Speaker 5: credit that's available to Ohia residence after the adoption is finalized,

684
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 5: which is an awesome, awesome thing, But adoptions pretty expensive,

685
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 5: and I'd prefer not to you's our entire nest egg

686
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 5: before the child is here, because I've been told kids

687
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 5: are expensive. So yeah, So like any kind of assistance

688
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 5: you guys know of to help in that process, or

689
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 5: any guidance you might have. Also, like I said, I'm

690
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 5: here in Ohio. We have a lot of great breweries.

691
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 5: Ryan Geist, You guys are familiar with, which is a

692
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 5: great one. But also we have some awesome distilleries. So

693
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 5: if you guys are ever looking for some whiskeys, Watershed

694
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 5: Distillery is a great one and shameless plug. I host

695
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 5: a Whiskey Chasers podcast and we have them on quite

696
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 5: a bit, so they're an awesome one. Not sponsored or anything,

697
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 5: just a really cool, cool place. So if you're ever

698
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 5: in Ohio, gets a Watershed. But thanks so much for

699
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 5: all you do.

700
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 2: So there's no rule that says that you have to

701
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: only enjoy craft beer. We like whiskey as well, Joel.

702
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: Don't we equal opportunity employers, Matt Steve. We love that

703
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: you're also a podcaster.

704
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: You might have to give that a listen. I might

705
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: learn a thing or two about whiskey, because honestly, all

706
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 2: I know is about Scotch. But man, I'll say too,

707
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: thank you for being vulnerable and for sharing your story.

708
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to hear that news because when you when

709
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 2: you want to have kids and you can't, I think

710
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: that's probably crazy hard. But adoption, man, that is a

711
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 2: great way to go. But like you said, it can

712
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: be crazy expensive, and like you said, that's before the

713
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: cost of actually taking care of the kiddo that you

714
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 2: bring under your roof. Definitely start making some space in

715
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 2: your budget for that new edition. Now.

716
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and by the way, we'll give our best advice

717
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: that we can on this. But I will also say this,

718
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: we haven't gone through the process ourselves, Matt, you or I.

719
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: We actually tapped a couple of friends as well. Ask

720
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: them some questions who have gone through this process, and

721
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: hopefully we've got some good advice for you, Steve. But

722
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: I would also just maybe before we get into kind

723
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: of some of the specific things we would look into,

724
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: I would say, talk to other people who have gone

725
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: through the adoption process where you live, because they are,

726
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: in all likelihood gonna know a thing or two. They

727
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: will have learned a lot from going through the ropes,

728
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: and so yeah, I would I would get their wisdom

729
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: as well. So let's talk about minimizing adoption costs. One

730
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: suggestion I've got mat in my family a lot of

731
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: there's actually a few people who are foster parents, and

732
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: I know it's completely different than going to the adoption route.

733
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,719
Speaker 1: You don't legally become the guardian, and that kiddo might

734
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: only be with you for weeks or months. But I

735
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: just want to mention it because you know, the state

736
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: pays you if you're a foster parent, and it's not

737
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: about getting rich. You don't do it to get paid

738
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: the big bucks. But it's an incredible service and it's

739
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: a way to love on kids who need a loving

740
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: home for a period of time. Again, sometimes it's a

741
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: few weeks, sometimes it's it can be even years. So

742
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: if you just love kids and you want to be

743
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: a massive help, I just want to put that on

744
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: your radar, Steve, even though it's my guess that you

745
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: want something more long term, which is completely understandable. I

746
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: know foster parenting can kind of fill that hole for

747
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: some folks at least not feeling the need for permanent adoption,

748
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: but being able to kind of go in that direction instead. Totally.

749
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, So the biggest difference in price that you're

750
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: going to encounter is between private adoption versus public adoption.

751
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: Our good buddy Joel, he works on the How To

752
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 2: Money team, kind of behind the scenes to.

753
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: Me, different Joel. We actually have multiple Joels.

754
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: We're a different Joal exactly. He recently adopted a little dude.

755
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 2: He and his wife are are hoping to adopt another

756
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 2: child in the near future, and so we reach out

757
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 2: to him.

758
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: For his device here.

759
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 2: But he detailed just how expensive a private adoption can be.

760
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 2: Literally we're talking tens of thousands of dollars, which is

761
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 2: so much more costly than going the public adoption route,

762
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: which raises the question why would folks want to do that? Well,

763
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 2: one reason is that those folks might be interested in

764
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: adopting a newborn and so if that's important to y'all, Steve,

765
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: then you're going to want to start saving up even

766
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: more money. But if you're happy to adopt a kid

767
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: that isn't fresh from the hospital, we'll keep in mind

768
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: that that will save you a bundle.

769
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you adopt a kid from the foster system,

770
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: the state will continue to pay you a stipend. Plus

771
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: that child typically has free health care provided for them

772
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: through the age of eighteen, and so again we know

773
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: that adoption it's not all about the money, but going

774
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: the private adoption route can be prohibitively expensive, not just

775
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: on the front end, but for the years to come.

776
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you can truly add up to being a

777
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: significant cost difference over time. And then I guess something

778
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: else I wanted to mention is to look into nonprofits

779
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: that can help parents who are looking to adopt. So

780
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 1: not only are you tapped in the high mind, you're

781
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: talking to people who have gone through this, but maybe

782
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: looking to nonprofits for help. Some of these nonprofits even

783
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: provide matching gifts to help make adoption or reality. They

784
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: want to support families to have a passion for adoption.

785
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: For instance, I don't know all the details of how

786
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: the nonprofit The Hope Affect works, but it's a mission

787
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: I can get behind. It's about providing families for orphans.

788
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: And it's actually one of the nonprofits I supported in

789
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: our recent Daffy Giving campaign. And so that's an organization

790
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: right there that I would reach out to and say, hey, listen,

791
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: what does it look like if we wanted to partner

792
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: with you guys, if we wanted to adopt and be

793
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: part of this lifeline for orphans and need, how does

794
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: that process work and how does a family get involved?

795
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: Those are the kinds of emails I would be sending. Questions.

796
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: I would be asking because it's a really cool way

797
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: to be able to take care of a kid in need,

798
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: but also a way to grow your family at the

799
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: same time.

800
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you don't necessarily have to build it from scratch.

801
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: There's infrastructure, there are organizations out there that are already

802
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 2: doing a lot of this great work.

803
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 1: And he also talked about tax credits.

804
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 2: Well, there is federal help on this front, not just

805
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 2: help there from your state. We'll link to the IRS page.

806
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: I think it's Form eighty eight thirty nine. Will they

807
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: outline this, but it basically gives you a fifteen thousand

808
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 2: dollars tax credit covering any expenses related to adoption. And

809
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 2: by the way, folks qualify for this credit even if

810
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: the adoption doesn't end up being successful, So that's kind

811
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 2: of cool.

812
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: We're talking about application costs, travel costs, all of these

813
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: things are covered by this credits. And I think the

814
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: state one he said it's only for a successful adoption, right,

815
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: the ten thousand dollars, So this one is not right.

816
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: He doesn't have to be successful. You can just be going.

817
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: Down the base attempt.

818
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

819
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so this is a credit, not a refund,

820
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 2: So you'll need an oh, federal tax in order to qualify.

821
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 2: And there are income limits as well, but you know,

822
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 2: if you make less than a quarter million dollars. Essentially,

823
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: you will likely qualify, and I could see this being

824
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: a big help in reducing some of those expenses that

825
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 2: you are bound to encounter, regardless of how it.

826
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 1: Is you go about adopting. Yeah, even an inexpensive adoption

827
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: isn't free. And so yeah, that tech tax credit, the

828
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: federal tax credit, could be a massive boon that, in

829
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: addition to kind of what you found through your state,

830
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 1: could massively help defray the costs of this adoption. So yeah,

831
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: you might want to also, I would say consider doing

832
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: some adoption fundraisers like some of our friends have, as

833
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: a way to defray some of those costs. Matt, you

834
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 1: recently participated in a fundraiser for some friends, yeah, who

835
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: were raising funds for their adoption. What was I don't know,

836
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: how does that work?

837
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 2: I mean, they were just looking to defray offset some

838
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 2: of the costs. But I think it's just a good

839
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 2: way too to bring in the community around you, because

840
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,760
Speaker 2: I think it raises awareness to the need for foster

841
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 2: parents or adoptive parents, and so in that way, I

842
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 2: see it as just like a nice, healthy way of

843
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: kind of letting folks know what's going on.

844
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even if it's just you know, a thousand

845
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: and two thousand bucks that you're able to raise from

846
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: your community. It's like, that's a cool way to get

847
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: some buy in. And they say it takes a village

848
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: right to raise a kid, and so I think that's

849
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: a cool part of the process as well bring other

850
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 1: people into the story.

851
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 2: So totally steve.

852
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: Best of luck to you and your family here, man,

853
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: and we hope that you're able to have a successful

854
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: adoption and grow your family and also not like spend

855
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: a ridiculous amount. That's one of the saddest things to me,

856
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: that adoption costs so much money when there's so many

857
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 1: kids who need homes.

858
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,479
Speaker 2: Totally, I totally agree, man, Yeah, and we are all

859
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: for being parents, Like at the end of the day,

860
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 2: it's like the most challenging but also rewarding thing. Like

861
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: we highly recommend five stars.

862
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: I heard Jerry Seinfeld say recently that he thinks that

863
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: one of the kindest things God does is to not

864
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: allow people who aren't parents to know what they're missing

865
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: out on. And I think he's right. I mean, I

866
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: think because until you have kids, you don't really understand

867
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: how big of a game changer it is. And there

868
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: was like this like portion of your heart that previously

869
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: was like not open, and then it opens up with

870
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: you have kids and like just not otherwise you're you're

871
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: you're totally fine with just kind of go that's right. Yeah,

872
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: that's exactly right.

873
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 2: I could see that be in the case. Yeah.

874
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: So we've got more to get to, including that one.

875
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: That question about the ethics of making money in real estate.

876
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: We'll get to that right after this.

877
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 2: A right, man, we are back from the break and

878
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,479
Speaker 2: it is now time for the Facebook question of the week.

879
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 2: This is about the efficacy of being a landlord. This

880
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 2: is from an anonymous poster and they write, does anyone

881
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 2: else get megaic factor from discussions where people talk about how.

882
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: Real estate is where you make the big bucks? You

883
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: like my voice there, I'm sure that's what they're channeling.

884
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: It sounded like a sales dud, but talking about one

885
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: of the most basic fundamental needs for existence, shelter like

886
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: its function is to fill someone's bank account. The worst

887
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: feels like acquiring simply to charge rent and sell later,

888
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: since it's not even creating more supply to help with

889
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: issues we're seeing. Jewel thoughts, are you in total agreement

890
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: or no, I'm not. I'm not in totally in a

891
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: total disagreement. Well yeah, mostly total disagreement. But yeah, let's

892
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: let me just first say I kind of understand where

893
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: the posters coming from. I don't. I can at least

894
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: identify with that struggle to say, where is that? Is

895
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: it okay to make money on that? Or really coldhearted?

896
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: I know you?

897
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 2: Or totally fine?

898
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: No, I mean, especially when you've seen home prices go

899
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: up and rents go up the way they have in

900
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: the past few years, and for it feeling like home

901
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: ownership or or even like being able to rent taking

902
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: up a bigger portion of your monthly budget. No, I

903
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: do sympathize for sure. Yeah, that is a tough position

904
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: to be in. And then to say, wait a second,

905
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: there's people getting rich on this, including Wall Street firms.

906
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: That can be a frustrating thing to see. So I

907
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: at least understand where the poster is coming from. Interially enough,

908
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: almost no one in the how of Money Facebook group

909
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: agreed with the poster. Some folks even said that comments

910
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 1: like this don't belong here. I actually disagree with that notion,

911
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: because it's not like this person was creating division for fun.

912
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: They they were trying to start a discussion. I think

913
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: about a financial topic that really does stir up emotions

914
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: and that totally brings questions. And there are aspects of

915
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: the modern housing like I was just referring to that

916
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: just really do kind of baffle the imagination and that

917
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: tend to frustrate folks. And I think that private owners

918
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: who rent properties out are doing a service to their

919
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: fellow American. They're actually providing housing in many ways. Yeah,

920
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 1: maybe they're not building the housing in some cases they are,

921
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: though with in case of in the case of like

922
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: an adu in their backyard, sometimes they are adding to

923
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: the supply. But even if they're not, they're providing temporary

924
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 1: or long term housing for people who need it.

925
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 2: Totally.

926
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, I totally agree with you.

927
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: I think that all discussions are welcome over at the

928
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: how to Money Facebook group, But so many of the

929
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 2: replies were thoughtful, and I'm with the majority of listeners here.

930
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 2: Landlords like us, we are providing a service because not

931
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 2: everyone can. Not everybody out there wants to buy a home,

932
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: but they would love to be able to rent a

933
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 2: decent one in a neighborhood that they would love to

934
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 2: live in. And the supply out there that I mean,

935
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 2: it ranges from like studio apartments to suburban McMansions. There's

936
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 2: just plenty of choice out there for all types of

937
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: folks who are looking for different housing arrangements. And I

938
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,479
Speaker 2: just don't see normal landlords renting out a few units

939
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 2: as being harmful. And these landlords, like, oftentimes they're not

940
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 2: getting rich quickly in some years, I mean, I have

941
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 2: lost money.

942
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: And so they've got to be well prepared to weather

943
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: the storms. It's not just it's not like some get

944
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: rich quick scheme. And oftentimes I think that's kind of

945
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: how that's you're painting with broad brushes to say that

946
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: everyone is that that is what they're doing. It's like

947
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: to look at those greedy, rich landlords when much of

948
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 1: the times that's not the case totally. And it makes

949
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: me think of literally one of my properties, there's no

950
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,720
Speaker 1: way I can be profitable this year on it because

951
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: I had to replace an h VAC and a water heater. Funny,

952
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: we were talking about home repairs earlier on in this episode,

953
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: and there's just no way I'm gonna be able to

954
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: earn enough in revenue from the property to cover the

955
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: costs this year, and that might be the case next

956
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 1: year too, who knows. And so it is like you said, Matt,

957
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: it is a long, long game to make money in

958
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: real estate. And the only way that I'm going to

959
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: be able to make money is if I provide solid

960
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: conditions for someone who feels like the price is fair.

961
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: And so I think of that as a reasonable and

962
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 1: just transaction. And listener Laurie said this in the comments.

963
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:11,959
Speaker 1: She said, people who have this kind of rage about

964
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: landlords seem not to understand much about what goes into it,

965
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: and they generally drastically overestimate the marginal returns. She said,

966
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: I can afford to invest in real estate, but I'm

967
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: lazy and selfish, so I don't. And I think she's right,

968
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: like you have to know your limitations. And there are

969
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 1: a lot of people who hear about the real estate

970
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: influencers the way they make it sound. It sounds like

971
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: the sexiest thing in the world. And these people who

972
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: own twelve hundred units and they're flying on private jets

973
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. A lot of that is it's

974
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: not as based in reality. I don't think as they

975
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: make it sound. And so I do think like index

976
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: funds are the right choice for the lazy investor because

977
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: of the part time job nature of rental real estate.

978
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a reason why I have invested more in

979
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: index funds over the past five, six, seven, eight years

980
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: that I have in real estate. Yeah, because that's how

981
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 2: I almost spend my time, even though not on my investments.

982
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: Even though you know, and you would, I think you

983
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: would readilymit, your returns have been, fortunately and largely because

984
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: of the real estate housing cycle that we've been involved in,

985
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: better in real estate than they have been in the market.

986
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 2: I mean, it certainly depends on the year, but like,

987
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 2: there are multifaceted ways of earning money when it comes

988
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 2: to real estate, and that's certainly one of the reasons

989
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 2: that that we invest in real estate, and that a

990
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: lot of folks still do that.

991
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I would say too, like we have cautioned

992
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: people more and more as the housing market has become

993
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: more and more expensive. The numbers just haven't made nearly

994
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: as much sense for investors these days. And sometimes you

995
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: gotta be willing to zig one other people'sag and buying

996
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: real estate In twenty eleven, twenty twelve, twenty thirteen twenty

997
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 1: fourteen made a lot more sense than buying real estate

998
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three twenty twenty four so you just

999
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: have to keep that in mind as well. But I

1000
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: think one of the other things that Lori highlights there

1001
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: is that part of the reason to invest in real

1002
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: estate is because you find it interesting and you're hoping

1003
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 1: to reap slightly outsized returns than to what you'd get

1004
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: typically in the market, albeit with the stipulation of having

1005
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: to work hard in order to get those returns. I

1006
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: guess the other thing to mention is the tax code

1007
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: incentivizes real estate investing too. Don't let the tail wag

1008
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: the dog on that one, but the tax code is

1009
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: kind of saying, hey, you should buy rental properties and

1010
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 1: rent them out, and we will be beneficial to you.

1011
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: And I think if we as a society don't want

1012
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: to incentivize that, we should probably change the rules a

1013
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: little bit on that front. The real culprit, though, in

1014
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: my opinion, isn't greedy landlords who are crushing it and

1015
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: taking advantage of tenants across the country. It's its owning

1016
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: laws that are prohibiting the building of new units that

1017
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: would produce more supply that will create even more balance

1018
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: in the market than we have right now. I mean

1019
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: we're even seeing softening rents in much of the country

1020
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: happening right now.

1021
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 2: Matt.

1022
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: We talked about this on a recent Friday flight. I

1023
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 1: think rents are down four percent year over year in

1024
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 1: the city of Atlanta where we live. And so you're

1025
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: not guaranteed to just continually make more money as real

1026
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: estate investor. You've got to be prepared for down years

1027
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: in down cycles.

1028
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. There you touched on the supply essentially,

1029
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 2: and I will say that that is where like I

1030
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 2: was totally joking when when I said earth or that

1031
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: was one hundred percent cold hearted and that it's totally fine.

1032
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 2: I do feel like I do feel a slight tension

1033
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 2: when it comes to this, because like, yes, you could

1034
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 2: build more apartments, but you can't build more like single

1035
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 2: family homes within a certain area. And that's the part

1036
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 2: of me that feels bad for folks who want to

1037
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 2: buy these smaller starter homes in these neighborhoods, because guess what,

1038
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 2: in this case, it is a scarcity mindset.

1039
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: You know.

1040
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 2: It's not like other industries and other businesses where innovation

1041
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 2: and creativity leads to the pie getting bigger. Like literally,

1042
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 2: when it comes to real estate, there are a certain

1043
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 2: number of houses in a particular neighborhood, in a particular

1044
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 2: part of town.

1045
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: It's my location, location, location, and some locations are going

1046
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 1: to see faster gains than others.

1047
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 2: And so I'm holding that at the same time like intention,

1048
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 2: knowing that well, I am providing a service. There are

1049
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 2: folks who can't afford to purchase a home right now,

1050
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 2: or who never want to purchase a home, and so

1051
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 2: therefore I'm able to rent to them. But I also

1052
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,439
Speaker 2: know by not selling a home and continuing to rent

1053
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: it out to folks instead, that that is one less

1054
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 2: single family home that isn't available to the market. But

1055
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: I don't know. Ultimately though, that's where the free market decides.

1056
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 2: Because what happens if because you you might say, well,

1057
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 2: then the people with money to invest, they're going to

1058
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 2: come swooping in and they're going to buy up all

1059
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: the homes. Well, that's where a sense of equilibrium will hit, right,

1060
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 2: because what happens to a neighborhood if nothing but investors

1061
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: are moving in right this once it used to be

1062
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 2: in this neighborhood that everybody wanted to move to as

1063
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 2: beautiful as cute, and you're likely going to see declining

1064
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 2: values because there aren't as many homeowners really investing in

1065
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 2: creating the community and providing the fabric of a neighborhood, right,

1066
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 2: which then in turn causes investors to say, eh, might

1067
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: want to go ahead and sell.

1068
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: It's this it's like a.

1069
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 2: Self governing system. And ultimately, I think that's the answer,

1070
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 2: is allowing the free markets to decide, as opposed to

1071
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 2: something that's more top down. Yeah, I guess I don't

1072
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 2: know what the better option is either, Yes, that's exactly

1073
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 2: like what's the alternative? Right?

1074
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: I mean it's been said that, you know, capitalism is

1075
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: the worst economic system except for all the others, right.

1076
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 2: So except for all the rest, right?

1077
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: So yeah, is it like amazing that it's like the

1078
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: best system that humanity can devise? Maybe not? But is

1079
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: it the best system that we've been able to devise yet?

1080
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: I think it probably is. And I do think we

1081
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,720
Speaker 1: are seeing declining prices in some places around the country,

1082
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: specifically on the rental front, for specific reasons. Austin is

1083
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: another example, matt where rents have gone down largely because

1084
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: of new zoning laws that allow for more multifamily homes

1085
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: and in lass that were previously zoned single family only.

1086
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I like to see that. I think

1087
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: that's a great way to attack this problem because part

1088
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 1: of the angst I think in this original post is

1089
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: how expensive it can be to rent, and that's one

1090
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: way to lower the price. And that's one tried and

1091
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: true method of ringing prices down for everyone.

1092
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 5: Yep.

1093
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 2: So our homework as home owners is to go and

1094
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 2: we all need to build Adu's in our backyard to

1095
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 2: increase that supply. Baby, I'm all for it, all right, man.

1096
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 2: Let's mention the beer that you and I enjoyed during

1097
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 2: this episode. It was a cherry pie Jammy. Would you

1098
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 2: think I liked it? Yeah, the beer by Inner Voice.

1099
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: So it wasn't my favorite of theirs, though I really

1100
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: like this brewery, but this one was just average, I

1101
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 1: would say, compared to some of the heavy hitters we've

1102
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: had from them. And I think the biggest disappointment was

1103
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: that it was like on a one to ten scale.

1104
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: It sour level was like a three, and I was

1105
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: hoping that it'd be more like a seven or eight. Yeah,

1106
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: not super sour. Yeah, but I think that's because they're

1107
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: going for a cherry cherry pie. Man, it's sweet, but

1108
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: you definitely get the sweetness from the cherries, and you

1109
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: definitely get some of the other like pie vibes going

1110
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: on in this one too.

1111
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 2: This has more cherry flavor in it than actual cherry.

1112
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 2: Like it's like, what do you know what reminds me of?

1113
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 2: It reminds me of did you ever drink did you

1114
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 2: ever make jello as a kid with your parents?

1115
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 1: Like jello?

1116
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, make that pour in the glassing you're supposed to

1117
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 2: put in the fridge, but for sure you always like

1118
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 2: sneak a little bit of it and drink it. Yeah,

1119
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 2: that's what this sort of tastes now, You're so right sweet.

1120
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 2: It's a very it's a very concentrated cherry flavor unlike.

1121
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 2: So that's a difference too with a lot of the

1122
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,760
Speaker 2: cherry beers that we're used to having, like the different Creeks,

1123
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 2: there's an an element of funkiness, and there isn't any

1124
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 2: sort of wood oat funkiness going on with this cherry beer.

1125
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: This was more one night, one note, one more sweet.

1126
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: You're right, and like if there was more sour, more funky.

1127
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:04,879
Speaker 1: I would have liked it more, but I see why

1128
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: they didn't go in that direction because that's not what

1129
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: they were going for in this one, I don't think.

1130
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:09,399
Speaker 1: But yeah, solid beer.

1131
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 2: Nonetheless, yea, I still dug it. But that's gonna be

1132
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 2: it for this episode. Listeners can find show notes up

1133
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 2: on the website at howtomoney dot com. Make sure to

1134
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 2: link to some of the different resources we've mentioned. But buddy,

1135
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 2: that's gonna be it until next time. Best Friends Out,

1136
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 2: Best Friends Out,