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Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military

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Speaker 1: softwarep Radio on time on Target. Really excited this episode

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Speaker 1: to have Paco hier RICHI on with us. And this

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Speaker 1: any gearbox sign up. Now with that, there is no

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Speaker 1: shortage of big news kind of like a big news dump,

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Speaker 1: I would say, in these past few days, and the

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Speaker 1: biggest of which as we're recording today is Julian Assange

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Speaker 1: facing charges by the US government. Uh, there's a New

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Speaker 1: York Times piece up that I printed out. Did you

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Speaker 1: see that the picture where he looks like Santa Claus. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did. I I think it was on this piece actually,

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Speaker 1: but I you know, it wasn't on what I printed out.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, the New York Times piece. Uh. The United

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Speaker 1: States has charged Wiki Weeks founder Julian Assange of conspiring

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Speaker 1: to hack a computer as part of the release of

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Speaker 1: reams of secret American documents, according to an indictment unsealed Thursday,

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Speaker 1: putting them just one flight away from being an American

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Speaker 1: costody after years of seclusion in the Ecuadorian investady in

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Speaker 1: London goes on obviously, and you can see that at

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Speaker 1: the New York Times. But this is pretty serious ship. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm interested to read what the indictment said. And um also,

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Speaker 1: I mean they're clearly must have been some sort of

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Speaker 1: an agreement reached between the Ecuadorian, British and American governments.

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Speaker 1: There is the actual indictment, is it in there? What

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Speaker 1: does it say what he was trying to hack? They

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Speaker 1: here they allege that he was trying to hack into here. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is I was gonna say if this is a

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Speaker 1: Chelsea Manning, but Chelsea man has mentioned because it does

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Speaker 1: say United States of America versus Julia Sange uh. The

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Speaker 1: grand jury charges that Chelsea Manning, formerly known as Bradley Manning,

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Speaker 1: was an intelligence analyst in the U States Army, and

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Speaker 1: that explains why Chelsea Manning is being held on on uh,

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Speaker 1: not perjury on contempt of court because she wouldn't testify

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Speaker 1: at the grand jury. Manning held top secret security clearance

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Speaker 1: and signed a Classified Information on Disclosure agreement acknowledging that

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Speaker 1: the unauthorized disclosure or attention or negligent handling of classified

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Speaker 1: information could cause irreplaceable, irreparable injury to the United States

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Speaker 1: or be used to the advantage of a foreign nation.

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Speaker 1: Then it says Executive Order Number thirteen five six and

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Speaker 1: its predecessor orders to find the classification levels into classified information.

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Speaker 1: Some of this is obviously very legally's yeah, But I

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Speaker 1: mean if he's being charged with conspiracy to hack into

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Speaker 1: a government computer, then what computer? What system? I'd have

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Speaker 1: to look through this entire thing, So where's the conspiracy.

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Speaker 1: The single charge conspiracy to commit computer intrusion was filed

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Speaker 1: a year earlier in March, and stems from what prosecutors

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Speaker 1: said was his agreement to break a password to a

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Speaker 1: classified United States government computer. It carries a penalty of

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Speaker 1: up to five years in prison and is significant, and

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Speaker 1: that it is not an espionage charge, a detail that

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Speaker 1: will come as a relief to press freedom advocates. The

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Speaker 1: United States government had considered, until at least last year,

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Speaker 1: charging him with an SPI espionage related offense. Yeah. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: It's going to be very interesting to see how all

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Speaker 1: this plays out, you know, I think, uh, in the

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Speaker 1: rear view mirror, I don't think it's gonna pan out

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Speaker 1: that like Julian Osange is an fsb asset or anything

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Speaker 1: like some people think. But I do think that it

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Speaker 1: probably bear some similarity to like the KGB's relationship with

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Speaker 1: a bud nadal Um people like this, we're making some

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Speaker 1: curious visits to places like East Germany while also running

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Speaker 1: terrorist operations internationally. UM and the KGV didn't run a

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Speaker 1: bud nadal as a as an intelligence asset, but they

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Speaker 1: did kinda push him a little this way, push him

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Speaker 1: a little that way, just let him do things, you know.

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Speaker 1: Just it's like one of those things like maybe we

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Speaker 1: just give this guy some information and we let him

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Speaker 1: do what he's gonna do with it, you know. And

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Speaker 1: I can see a Sange being um utilized in that

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Speaker 1: way that a foreign intelligence service would give him information

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Speaker 1: or push him a little bit in this direction, say hey,

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Speaker 1: why don't you go look over there, and then just

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Speaker 1: let him do what he's gonna do. Um, I would

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Speaker 1: not be surprised if that turned out to be the case.

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Speaker 1: Next thing I wanted to cover, and this is a

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Speaker 1: big one of course, and yeah, who has been re

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Speaker 1: elected in Israel? I was wondering how long this means

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Speaker 1: he's been in office because as many of you know,

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Speaker 1: he was the prime minister short period in the nineties

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Speaker 1: and then came back into power probably about a decade later.

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Speaker 1: So now Mark's thirteen years total as the prime minister.

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Speaker 1: It makes me feel like it's practically a dictatorship on

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Speaker 1: some level. And who whoa then's fighting worth? And you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get some nasty grams over that. Well, it did

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Speaker 1: make me curious as to what the laws are in

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Speaker 1: Israel with term limits. So Israel is not necessarily a

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Speaker 1: stellar democracy. I mean, truth be told. I I look

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Speaker 1: this up because I don't I don't know about the

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Speaker 1: term limits. And basically here's what it is is that

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Speaker 1: originally uh ninety eight to nineteen ninety six, there were

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Speaker 1: no directly set terms. However, they must maintain the support

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Speaker 1: of the Knesset, which is an undefined term not exceeding

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Speaker 1: four years, but it's still pretty much no term limits.

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Speaker 1: Then from nineties six to two thousand one, they change

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Speaker 1: the rules to unlimited undefined terms. Should these terms exceed

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Speaker 1: seven years, the prime Minister will not be eligible for

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Speaker 1: immediate re election. They got rid of that, and obviously

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Speaker 1: if that those were still the rules, then that now

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Speaker 1: could not have been reelected again. Uh, and they went

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Speaker 1: back to those original terms. I just stated, so there

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Speaker 1: really are no clear defined term limits, which makes you

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Speaker 1: think it's very likely Net and Yahoo will be there

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Speaker 1: until he's dead. Yeah. And there's I actually think, rightfully

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Speaker 1: so a lot of articles written by more left leaning

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Speaker 1: publications saying that, like, a left leaning party is dead

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Speaker 1: in Israel and that you have the right wing you

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Speaker 1: could party. Yeah, Net and Yahoo and the people that

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Speaker 1: he's up against that face a chance, or more right

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Speaker 1: leaning moderists or centrists, moderates or centrists, but none of

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Speaker 1: them are really what progressives would consider a left wing

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Speaker 1: and I do think that's that's a problem on some level,

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Speaker 1: regardless of my views it's very important, I think, to

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Speaker 1: have opposing viewpoints and and the relationship between Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: and Benjamin Net and Yahoo, I mean Net and Yah,

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Speaker 1: who is a trained intelligence officer. He's playing Trump's ego

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Speaker 1: like a violin um and I worry, my my concern

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Speaker 1: is that at this point, between the two of them,

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Speaker 1: they have essentially scuttled any possibility for a two state solution.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know, in the past I've been kind

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Speaker 1: of cautiously optimistic and said, you know, in our lifetimes

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Speaker 1: that might happen. You know, it could very well happen

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Speaker 1: in our lifetimes, that a historic compromise could take place.

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Speaker 1: But with Trump moving the embassy over there, with him helping,

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Speaker 1: with him helping Net and Yah, who recognized the goal

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Speaker 1: on Heights as part of Israel, which we're taken from

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Speaker 1: Syria UM decades ago, and then with Net and Yah

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Speaker 1: who's saying like I'm gonna straight up just annex the

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Speaker 1: Gaza strip, the very provocative actions obviously have essentially deep

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Speaker 1: sixed any chance there could be of reconciliation at this point.

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Speaker 1: I just cannot see it happening, even you know, several

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Speaker 1: decades into the future. Now, I couldn't see it happening.

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Speaker 1: I would agree, because the last leader who who I

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Speaker 1: think did believe in a compromise in terms of land

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Speaker 1: and peace was really yet soccer being and I don't

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Speaker 1: think there's been anything remotely close to what Yet Soccer

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Speaker 1: being President Clinton and Um Yasser are affected at that time.

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Speaker 1: And for those who don't know, Net and Yah, who

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Speaker 1: being elected was originally in the nineties, was kind of

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Speaker 1: a reaction to what they saw yet Soccer being being

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Speaker 1: this like left wing, like they're Jimmy Carter. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: and there was. It was very heated rhetoric at that time.

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Speaker 1: If you research it, there were rallies of not blaming

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Speaker 1: net and Yah who personally for this, but of net

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Speaker 1: and Yaho's supporters having yet Soccer being dressed in like

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Speaker 1: a s S uniform, calling him a Nazi even though

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Speaker 1: he was Israeli war hero. Really and he did. He

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Speaker 1: did say many times like this type of rhetoric is

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Speaker 1: unacceptable and could lead to violence. And sure enough, I

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Speaker 1: mean it wasn't extremist, not in Yahoo supporter who killed

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Speaker 1: right right, he was a Israeli reactionary. I guess you

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Speaker 1: could say, absolutely so, I I do consider that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: who like far right politician. I don't. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that's really that disputable in terms of his at least

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Speaker 1: his feelings on on land as two state solution, I

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Speaker 1: should say he is not a believer by any means.

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Speaker 1: And and I agree with you. I don't see any progress, uh,

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Speaker 1: in terms of peace in the region with him taking

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Speaker 1: another term. I mean, I think he compromised any prospect

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Speaker 1: of peace in order to advance his political career quite frankly, um.

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Speaker 1: And and that's a shame. That's a shame. Yeah. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Last piece of news I wanted to get to here

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Speaker 1: and this is another big one and pr article here.

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Speaker 1: US labels Iran's Revolutionary Guard is a foreign terrorist organization.

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Speaker 1: The Trump Administration is designating Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps

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Speaker 1: as a foreign tarist organization, taking an unprecedented step as

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Speaker 1: it seems to increase pressure on Iran's regime. The move

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Speaker 1: seems certain to bring a new level of tension between

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Speaker 1: the two countries, as Iran's leaders have said they will

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Speaker 1: retaliate UH in kind. Irani and lawmakers are prepared legislation

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Speaker 1: that would label part of the U S military as

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Speaker 1: a terrorist group according to Iran's state run i RNA

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Speaker 1: News Agency. So a lot of times, well, these things

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Speaker 1: are not happening in a vacuum. Uh, The relationship between

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Speaker 1: Trump and net and Yahoo with John Bolton, the ejection

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Speaker 1: of Secretary of Defense Maddest, the labeling of the I

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Speaker 1: r g C as a foreign terrorist organization. These are

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Speaker 1: all the chess pieces getting moved around the board for

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Speaker 1: preparation of war with Iran? Are Are they not a

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Speaker 1: tarist organization? Though it's a fair label, I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's an unfair label. I mean I think that the

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Speaker 1: I r g C and KOD's Forest, they launch assassinations internationally, bombings,

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Speaker 1: all sorts of subterfuge and horrible things. Um. I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying it's necessarily a wrong decision in of itself. My

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Speaker 1: point is that it's not happening in a vacuum. Sure

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Speaker 1: that it's part of an incremental strategic gambit to move

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Speaker 1: US closer to war with Iran. Yeah, well, we'll keep

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Speaker 1: you updated on that. And then I have some emails

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Speaker 1: sent to soft rep dot radio at soft rep dot com.

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Speaker 1: A couple of good ones here, keep them coming. This

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Speaker 1: one is from Colin Colin Pool, Hey JACKIEY and longtime listener.

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Speaker 1: First time question here. I'm very curious if soft rep

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Speaker 1: has thoughts on the significance of our fifteen billion dollar

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Speaker 1: Patriot missile system sales to our NATO NATO allies that

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Speaker 1: border Ukraine, Poland and Romania. Throughout the Russia Gates saga,

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Speaker 1: I've almost never heard the multimillion dollar arms deals mentioned

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Speaker 1: as indicative of an aggressive stance towards Russia. Shoulder fired

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Speaker 1: missiles sent to Ukraine is often cited, and so is

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Speaker 1: the ruthless annihilation of over a hundred Russian mercenaries in Syria,

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Speaker 1: but never the Patriot missile sales. Were it not for

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Speaker 1: soft REAP, I don't think I would have even known

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Speaker 1: about it. How significant of a deterrent are these weapons

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Speaker 1: to Russia's military? How much does Russia really care since

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Speaker 1: they already have their port in Crimea. It would be

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Speaker 1: great if you could bring on an expert guest who

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Speaker 1: is longing to delineate what this means and what it

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean. Keep up the great work, guys. It's a

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Speaker 1: good question, and I think he's right. It would be

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Speaker 1: great to have somebody who specializes in air defense, come

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Speaker 1: on and talk about that. UM. I think that it

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Speaker 1: just plays into the whole strategy of encircling Russia, UM,

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Speaker 1: as well as serving as you know, both a tactical

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Speaker 1: and strategic deterrent against Russian aggression. Uh. We were kind

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Speaker 1: of freaked out by what happened in Crimea in Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: and the Shans are kind of freaked out because we

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Speaker 1: were offering Ukraine and Georgia membership in the NATO. You know,

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Speaker 1: It's like, uh, if Russia wanted to forge, you know,

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Speaker 1: some sort of Warsaw Pact type alliance with Canada and Mexico, Like,

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Speaker 1: we would never accept that. Are you fucking serious? Like

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Speaker 1: you know, justin Trudeau, We're coming for you boy. Like

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't that wouldn't end well, we would have put

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Speaker 1: up with it. So the Russians are freaked the funk out. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I think you know, the the Bush administration was

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Speaker 1: hitting pretty hard on that. They were all about creating

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Speaker 1: a ballistic missile defense shield in Europe. We've kind of

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Speaker 1: oscillated back and forth on some of that. Obama you know,

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Speaker 1: took a little bit of a step back. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think it all plays into that. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: also it's part of you know, of course, the military

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Speaker 1: industrial complex. We got to keep up our defense sales.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we sold a shipload of these systems to

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Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia. Um, who else got patriots recently? Was it Turkey?

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Speaker 1: We've we've been selling quite a few of them in

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Speaker 1: the last couple of years. Yeah, great question, and I

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Speaker 1: agree it would be great to bring on an expert

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Speaker 1: on that subject. There's just there's so much to cover

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Speaker 1: in the world. But that's that's a big one, this one.

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Speaker 1: I have a feeling that I kind of know your

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Speaker 1: answer already because we get a lot of these emails.

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Speaker 1: But I figure it's actually been a while since we've

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Speaker 1: gotten one. Jack, who's better force reconn seals? No, no,

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Speaker 1: no, no no, Um, you'll see what I mean. We get

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Speaker 1: a lot of these. But this is from Zach Uh,

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Speaker 1: Mr Scotto and Jack of course. Hello. My name is

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Speaker 1: Zack and I'm a frequent listener of Software Radio. I

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Speaker 1: truly enjoy the topics discussed guests form out of the show,

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Speaker 1: and of course you and Mr Murphy especially listened to

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Speaker 1: the show. During my time at u c l A,

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Speaker 1: where I was a political science major. Not much science there.

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Speaker 1: I would hear a very opinionated, silly, ridiculous side of

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Speaker 1: a conflict or issue where the main thought was that

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Speaker 1: it's America's fault or some whack woke theory. I then

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Speaker 1: would listen to your show where there was logic, reason

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Speaker 1: and actual thought process and insight into the issues. I

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Speaker 1: thank you for keeping me and other listeners updated and

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Speaker 1: exposed to multiple views on the subject. Thank you. UM

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Speaker 1: I have a question for Mr Murphy if it could

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Speaker 1: be relayed to him. Mr Murphy. Hello, my name is

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Speaker 1: Zach and we already have that yet twenty seven year

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Speaker 1: old college graduate. I currently work for a defense company

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Speaker 1: as well as two other jobs. I've always had the

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Speaker 1: urge to join the military, and I'm nearing a cross

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Speaker 1: road of my life where I must choose a path.

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Speaker 1: I feel like if I passed in the opportunity to join,

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Speaker 1: I would have some form of regret or missing chapter

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Speaker 1: in my life. Even though I'm twenty seven, I'm very fit,

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Speaker 1: have a lot of life experience, so left in a

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Speaker 1: car for a few years, worked over ten jobs, etcetera,

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Speaker 1: and stay up to date on events to stay educated.

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Speaker 1: My question for you is should I take the plunge.

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Speaker 1: I know, ultimately it's my decision, but I would appreciate

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Speaker 1: your two cents. Is it worth it in today's bureaucratic

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Speaker 1: and divided government. I work at a Navy base as

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Speaker 1: a lifeguard, and I'm constantly exposed to the bureaucracy that

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Speaker 1: plagues the military. I've researched the Navy and Marines and

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Speaker 1: have ultimately come down to these two. I've looked at intelligence,

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Speaker 1: cryptologic fields, and even e O d Any insider advice

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Speaker 1: is deeply appreciated. I truly enjoy the show and your

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Speaker 1: views on the subjects discussed. Thank you for your time,

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Speaker 1: and I look forward to hearing from you, sincerely, Zach.

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Speaker 1: And then I like this PS because I kind of

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Speaker 1: forgot about this, to be honest. PS, it would be

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Speaker 1: great to get Major Fred Galvin back on and discussed China,

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Speaker 1: and we did say we can do that, so we

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Speaker 1: do have to do that, we should do that. UM. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a good question, A lot of the question that

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Speaker 1: I think quite a few people have, as you mentioned

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Speaker 1: the and UM, people kind of reached that point in

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Speaker 1: their life and like what do I do? And it

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Speaker 1: ultimately comes down to you, and you know your your dream, uh,

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Speaker 1: and what it is you want out of life. Um.

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Speaker 1: Some people and I know people, and I know of

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Speaker 1: people who joined the military and went into special operations

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Speaker 1: and they regretted it because they saw things that um

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Speaker 1: their peers went on to do elsewhere in the civilian

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Speaker 1: world or even in other units. Um. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: like you're always chasing that dream. There's one guy who

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Speaker 1: um went left Third Infantry Division, came to my unit

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Speaker 1: when I was in range of battalion, and I think

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Speaker 1: he always kind of had a chip on his shoulder

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Speaker 1: because Third Infantry Division, uh, like was a big part

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Speaker 1: of the invasion of Iraq. U went and saw tons

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Speaker 1: of combat and they came home and we're like America's heroes.

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Speaker 1: And the range of regiment did a lot during the invasion,

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Speaker 1: but I mean they were not seen in the same light,

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Speaker 1: maybe didn't have the same recognition. So by civilians, I mean,

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Speaker 1: because do you really think civilians know exactly who's doing what?

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Speaker 1: You know? No, not necessarily, but I mean this is

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Speaker 1: by the veteran community. This is also I mean it's

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Speaker 1: perception versus reality. You know, as you point out, it

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Speaker 1: was his personal perception that I think he regretted coming

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Speaker 1: over to Ranger Battalion. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was

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Speaker 1: that was That was what I took away from that,

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Speaker 1: And that happens all the time. Like you know, you

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Speaker 1: could relieve Ranger Battalion and go to Dell the Force,

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Speaker 1: and you know, then Ranger Battalion, you know, jumps in,

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Speaker 1: gets a combat jump and invades a country and are

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Speaker 1: the big heroes, and you know, you were sitting on

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Speaker 1: a q RF somewhere, um doing nothing. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: always like the grass is always greener on the other side,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's also to some people

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Speaker 1: would be weird regretting that you don't see all this

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Speaker 1: action because seeing all this action could also result in

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Speaker 1: you possibly dying, losing limbs. I mean, it's a weird

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Speaker 1: thing to regret. And we've also covered i mean, the

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Speaker 1: the human costs of war. I mean, we've talked to

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Speaker 1: the gold Star families, We've talked to guys about dealing

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Speaker 1: with PTSD. I mean, so it is I mean, I

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Speaker 1: because I was a young man who was like gung

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Speaker 1: ho for all that, Um I understand, but UM, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I think ideally for somebody in that situation,

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Speaker 1: You're twenty seven years old, you have a college degree. UM,

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Speaker 1: I would look at if you really have your heart

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Speaker 1: set on going into the military. First off, there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be bureaucracy regardless, so you're just gonna have to accept that. UM,

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Speaker 1: I would look into finding a position where you can

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Speaker 1: utilize your college degree. I mean, maybe going in as

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Speaker 1: an infantry grunt isn't the thing for you. UM. That

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Speaker 1: way you get the most out of it, and the

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Speaker 1: army gets the most out of you, um and hopefully

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Speaker 1: sets you up for you know, whatever comes next in

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Speaker 1: your life. Uh, perhaps you want to consider going in

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Speaker 1: as an officer. UM. Again, it all depends on what

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Speaker 1: you want out of life and what you want out

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Speaker 1: of out of your career. UM. For someone like that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I would suggest, you know, maybe going into

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Speaker 1: intelligence or counterintelligence or something like that. Yeah. For some people,

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Speaker 1: they just want to experience something new and have something

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Speaker 1: on the resume, even if it's not a long term thing.

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Speaker 1: And I get that this might be a weird thing

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Speaker 1: to bring up, but I've always said I want to

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Speaker 1: get the rapper Cannabis on the show because I'm a

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Speaker 1: huge fan. But he had this thriving rap career and

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Speaker 1: then joined the military, joined the army and I think

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Speaker 1: his late twenties, and people were really surprised by that.

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Speaker 1: The guy who's really successful in the industry. It all, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it really depends on you. Like I was reading this article.

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Speaker 1: I was reading something I'm trying to remember where, and

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Speaker 1: it was written by a guy who I knew when

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Speaker 1: I went through Special Forces training when I was in

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Speaker 1: the Q course. And this guy was like a huge

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Speaker 1: like he was totally into UFC, loved UFC um and

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Speaker 1: trained like every day UM. And then he went and

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Speaker 1: joined the army and went and went into a Special

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Speaker 1: Forces And I couldn't tell you exactly why his what

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Speaker 1: his rationale was, You'd have to ask him. But I

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Speaker 1: was reading anyway in this article, he was in Special Forces,

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Speaker 1: came off a combat operation in Iraq, um sat down,

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Speaker 1: you know, dumped this kid covered in sweat, and like

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Speaker 1: the TV was on and he sees his best friend

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Speaker 1: or one of a good friend is pure of his

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Speaker 1: from UFC training, just like one some big UFC championship

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Speaker 1: and he's like I, you know, he's like saying, like

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Speaker 1: I felt like shit because here I am in Iraq

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Speaker 1: and look at look at what I could have accomplished.

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Speaker 1: Now for me personally, going on combat operations in Iraq

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Speaker 1: was like the pinnacle that like, it doesn't get any

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Speaker 1: better than that. But and I'm not trying to um

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Speaker 1: take cheap shots at this guy, like his dream was

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Speaker 1: to be a UFC champion and um and he felt

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Speaker 1: I what I took away from the article is that

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Speaker 1: he felt that he had missed that opportunity by joining

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Speaker 1: the military. So that's what I mean when I say

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Speaker 1: it really depends on the person and you know what

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Speaker 1: you're looking for. Yeah, the reason I was bringing up

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Speaker 1: the rapper Cannabis, I was going to paraphrase what he

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Speaker 1: said because I remember reading this quote, but this was

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Speaker 1: the actual quote. When people asked why he did it,

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Speaker 1: he said, I enlisted because I wanted to get away

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Speaker 1: from the music. I wanted to do something that gave

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Speaker 1: me a separate definition from what I had done all

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Speaker 1: throughout my teens and twenties. I was twenty eight when

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Speaker 1: I enlisted. And then for those who don't know, ironically,

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Speaker 1: I mean, his name is Cannabis and he got distructed

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Speaker 1: for smoking weed. But I do think that's an interesting

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Speaker 1: perspective where it's like he's defined by this one thing,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, I don't want to be defined by

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Speaker 1: just doing this one thing. And I would love to

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Speaker 1: get him on the show because it's such an interesting

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Speaker 1: guy and I'm like a huge fan. It's probably one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite artists of all time. I get it

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Speaker 1: because you know, here I am today, and it's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be defined by just having been

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Speaker 1: a soldier, you know. Yeah, yeah, I think people want

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Speaker 1: to there's not just one thing to a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: It's it's kind of a weird dynamic in America. How

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Speaker 1: it's like you go to college or even the military

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Speaker 1: for this one thing at eighteen, and how much do

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Speaker 1: you really know about yourself sixteen seventeen when you're figuring

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Speaker 1: this stuff out, graduate college with this degree, and for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that's exactly that's what you do

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Speaker 1: for the rest of your life until the day you retire.

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Speaker 1: And it's I don't know, if we're kind of kind

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Speaker 1: of one dimensional and uninteresting from my from my point

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Speaker 1: of view, um, yeah, I think it's good to use

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Speaker 1: it as a as a building block, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: a foundational part of your life and you use it

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Speaker 1: to build on from there. Yeah, it's like this with everything.

429
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: I'm a huge music fans. For another analogy I've I've

430
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: always thought of and it was actually listening to a

431
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: Eddie Trunk show where someone asked about this. The original

432
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 1: guitarist for Queens Reich, Christ Christa Garmo, while the band

433
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 1: was still really successful, went on to be a pilot

434
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: and left the band completely. Then people were like, how

435
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: could he leave the successful band? And he had he

436
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: had more of a passion for being a pilot at

437
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 1: that point. That was his dream. And sometimes you kind

438
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: of got gotta go for these other dreams that you have,

439
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: even if you've accomplished so much, and you could kind

440
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: of rest on your laurels and tour with this band

441
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: and possibly make more money. Right, Yeah, it's all about

442
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 1: the job satisfaction, you know. Yeah, so I think it

443
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: boils down to you as the bottom line. It would

444
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: be kind of weird for you to say yes or

445
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: no and without without knowing the guy. Yeah yeah, all right, Well,

446
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: any other emails send them to uh soft rep dot

447
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: radio at soft rep dot com. Looking forward to talk

448
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: in to Paco. So let's get right to that. Paco

449
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: Key or Reesey, author of Lines in the Sky, joining

450
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: us for the first time on Software Up Radio. Paco

451
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: kiar Ici, author of Lines of the Sky, which we're

452
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: recording this day in advance, but for people listening, it's

453
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: out today on Amazon. Paco is a former Navy pilot

454
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: and current seven thirty seven captain. Also flies a YAK

455
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: fifty recreationally great to have you on the show. Really

456
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: excited to do this. Uh. The first thing I guess

457
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: we'll get into, sort of what we get into with

458
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 1: all guests, is I'd like to know what what drove

459
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: you to join the Navy, but also where did your

460
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: interest in aviation begin. Uh that's a great question. Um,

461
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 1: I don't I don't really know where my interest in

462
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: aviation began. You know, I was like a standard kid.

463
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 1: I built the models and hung them from the ceiling

464
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But um, I mean I didn't

465
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 1: like work at airports when I was a kid, or

466
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: you know, dream of flying. My interest in aviation really

467
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: peaked when I joined the RFTC to go to college.

468
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, aviation is one of the four

469
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: options that you get when you're when you're in the

470
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: Navy ARTC. You can either go in a ship, a submarine,

471
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 1: you can join the Marines, or you can go flag yets.

472
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: And I got to fly in the backseat when at fourteen,

473
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: when I was a sophomore and I was, man, it

474
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: was great. It was like an immediate infusion of drugs

475
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: right into my vein. I was, I was ready to go,

476
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: very cool and and uh so, what what drove you

477
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: to actually join the Navy and take that step. It

478
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: was very unglamorous. You know, I needed money to pay

479
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: for college, and I got a Navy RTC scholarship. I

480
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: didn't know much. I didn't come from a military family.

481
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: My dad did a couple of years in the army.

482
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: He was drafted in the fifties and you know, did

483
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: his time and did the g I Bill, But the

484
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: military and the Navy were definitely not a part of

485
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: my family heritage. Um. I just I kind of fell

486
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 1: into it. I mean, I like to tell people like,

487
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: there's no such thing as an accidental fighter pilot. You know,

488
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: you've got to really work your way through uh an

489
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: amazing number of obstacles to make that happen. But I'm

490
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: as close as you get, Like I just kind of

491
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: stumbled into the Navy r OTC and then I got

492
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: that backseat drive in the F fourteen, and and from

493
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: that moment on, I was just unbelievably driven and focused

494
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 1: on on making that happen. But prior to that, you know,

495
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 1: anything could happen. You know, I could have I could

496
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: have gone into business or who knows, sold shoes or something.

497
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: I'm not totally familiar with the process for going to

498
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: flight school and everything like that, but I mean, were

499
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: you assigned a airframe like pretty early on, like you

500
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 1: knew what you were walking onto. No, So, Um, there's

501
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: a couple of things in the Navy that make it

502
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: kind of exciting. Um, when you are a college student,

503
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: whether you're in the RTC and you know there's a

504
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: number of those scattered throughout the countries at universities or

505
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: you're in the Naval Academy, at the end of that

506
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: academic year, everybody gets ranked, you know, they assigned. They

507
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: take all these different factors into account and your grades

508
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: and you know how doing your physical fitness tests and

509
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and they just kind of boil it

510
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: down to one number and then everybody gets ranked. And uh,

511
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: you know, you choose according to your rank. So thankfully,

512
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: when I was graduating, you know, everybody in the country

513
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: gets ranked at the same time, and I was high

514
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: enough to go into flight school. And then flight school

515
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: is separated into three distinct phases of flight training. You

516
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: start off um in a primary and a turboprop, and

517
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: depending on how you do in those first six months,

518
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: and for me it was the first time I've ever

519
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 1: flown an airplane. I've never uh, you know, never even

520
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: been a passenger and something smaller than an airliner. UM.

521
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: But depending on how you do in those first few

522
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: months of turbo prop training again get ranked and then

523
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: you again put your choices in and if you you know,

524
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: if you make the cut, then you get to go

525
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: on to go fly jets UM. And then even then

526
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: at that time, we had intermediate jets and which were

527
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: in the T two, and then advanced jets which were

528
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: in the A four and you had to you know,

529
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: pass certain wickets before you could move on to the

530
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: next stage. And the T two the big thing was

531
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: you know, going to the boat for the first time,

532
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: and we went UM solo UM. And then in the

533
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: A four was advanced jets and you know, everything you

534
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: do in the T two and the T thirty four

535
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: you did in the A four, but it was much

536
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,719
Speaker 1: faster and more complex. And of course at the end

537
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: of that six months we got to go see the

538
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: the aircraft carry again and carry qualify. And then assuming

539
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: that you passed all of those wickets, um, and you

540
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: got your wings, then you could put in your choice

541
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: for whatever airframe you were going to go fly. And uh,

542
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, needs of the Navy as always dictate. But

543
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: for me, I out of the training command, I got

544
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: to go fly the A six first, and then when

545
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: that was decommissioned, I flew the F fourteen, and then

546
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: after I got active duty, off active duty, I flew

547
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: the F five and the reserves for other ten years

548
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,719
Speaker 1: as an adversary pilot. So I mean just that there

549
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: was a super long answer to here. No, that's great,

550
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: but um, the answer is like at every stage of

551
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: the game, there's a weed out process or a decision

552
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: making process. Um. And I didn't realize it till I

553
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: was done. But man, I got so lucky. My time

554
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: was great. I didn't screw anything up badly, I didn't

555
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: piss anybody off, and I just kind of you know,

556
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: stumbled my way through all these obstacles and managed to

557
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: get winged and fly these amazing jets. And and I

558
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: consider myself to be super lucky. Well, I mean you

559
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: got to fly Tomcats off of carriers, right, I mean

560
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,959
Speaker 1: that's like being you know, the Special Forces of Aviation,

561
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: isn't it. I think so? And I was telling the

562
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: end this yesterday. I mean, like, there's nobody more egotistical

563
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: than fighter pilots, and I think think the most cool

564
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: people on the on the face of the earth. We

565
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: didn't even we weren't even pressed by rock stars. Um,

566
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: I don't feel that one. I don't know. I was

567
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: gonna say. I don't know if you know Dan Hampton,

568
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: but you do. I like when I met him, I

569
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: got that vibe like it is very rock star vibe

570
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: and not in a bad way, you know, No, And

571
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,239
Speaker 1: it was it was great. I mean it was like

572
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: a self supporting, mutual admiration society. You know, we all

573
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: thought we were the most people on Earth, which is awesome. Um,

574
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: but you know, we we knew what we had gone through,

575
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: and we legitimately thought like I would not want to

576
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,239
Speaker 1: trade places with anybody down earth, even like you know,

577
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: Mick Jagger or whatever, the hottest rock star. I mean,

578
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: except for the Special Forces dudes. Man, we always like,

579
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: you know, we always step back for that. We're like, Okay,

580
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: you guys way more badass than we are. We're not

581
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: even play this game. Well, you know, to be you know,

582
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: a Green Beret or a Navy seal or a fighter pilot,

583
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you have to have a little bit of ego,

584
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: don't You don't land a fighter jet on the deck

585
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: of an aircraft carrier at night. Yeah, I don't know.

586
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: You certainly have to have um a sense of confidence

587
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: and almost detachment. And I think you know, as a

588
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: Special Forces guy, you'll you'll understand that, like, you know,

589
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: even even though somebody has died doing this. And there

590
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: are a number of times where you know, you'd be

591
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: flying on the ship and a plane would crash or

592
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: somebody you know, you'd lose a plane out to see

593
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: or or you'd see a plane hit that hit the

594
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: deck of the boat, and you know, in a in

595
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: a sort of a heartless way, they'd kind of hose

596
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: the deck down and and get back to operations, you know,

597
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: And and that's just the way it had to be. Right.

598
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: And again when you look at that in hindsight, it

599
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: seems incredible. Most of the world doesn't do that. You

600
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: would take some time off and mourn people and examine

601
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: what had happened. But literally, I mean, we would crash

602
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,719
Speaker 1: a plane or lose a plane, and a few hours later,

603
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: maybe that day later, you'd be right back at it. Um.

604
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: So you developed a sense of detachment and a belief

605
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: that you know, it wasn't you, it wasn't gonna be

606
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: your day. It's it was impossible. Otherwise you know, you

607
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't do it. Um. I mean, like for me,

608
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: the greatest story to that example is um as I mentioned,

609
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: when you're going through training in the Tree and the

610
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: T two and the A four, you go to the

611
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: aircraft carrier and you go solo. But it's during the day.

612
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: When you land on a ship at night, it's a

613
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: completely different animal. It's it's um. The day landings on

614
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: aircraft carrier are the most exhilarating thing I've ever done,

615
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: and the night landings on aircraft carrier are the most

616
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: terrifying thing I've ever done. Uh. And it's you know,

617
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: in some ways it's exactly the same thing. It's the

618
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: same plan, the same ship, same ocean. But you know,

619
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: you take the light away, and you take you know,

620
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: all sense of external perception away, and it just changes

621
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: it degrees. Well, before my first night landing UM qualifications

622
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: in the A six, I was supposed to hot switch

623
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: into a plane that was landing on the ranger, and

624
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: that means that that that plane would land and then

625
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: they would tie it down while the engines were still running,

626
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: and then I would jump into the cockpit after the

627
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: other pilot jumped out, they'd fuel it up and I'd

628
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: keep going UM. And so I tracked this thing as

629
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: it was going around doing its six night landings, and

630
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,959
Speaker 1: during the last one, I went up to the flight

631
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: deck like to control, and I'm sitting there watching it

632
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,479
Speaker 1: on the TV camera and I'm tightening my chest strap

633
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 1: as it's coming down to land, you know, and I'm

634
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: about to jump into this jet and go fly for

635
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: the first time at night. Uh. And I mean my

636
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: adrenaline level is spiking through the roof. Uh. And the

637
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: jet touches down and I can see now the jet

638
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: as it's in the landing area through the big window

639
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: and fled to control and as I'm watching it holding

640
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: my chest trap the hook breaks, both the pilot and

641
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: the navigator reject. The plane angles into three hornets that

642
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: were parked on the deck, smashes into one of them,

643
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: flips over into the water, and drags a hornet in

644
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: the water with it. And I'm literally just standing there

645
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 1: with my job and holding on my chest. Holy fuck.

646
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: Welcome to naval aviation. Um. And you know I flew

647
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: the next day. Did they have to launch the helicopter

648
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: to go pull the pilot and the co pilot out

649
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: of the water. One guy landed on the deck and

650
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: broke his ankle and the other guy landed in the water.

651
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: And yeah, there's always a helicopter. Whenever there's flat ups

652
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: going on on aircraft cary, there's a helicopter orbiting. Uh,

653
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 1: just in case something like that happens, I can pluck

654
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: the person out of the water. I had this similar

655
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: experience to what you're describing in Iraq when I was

656
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: in a range of battalion and uh, we would switch out,

657
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: you know, one platoon during this day and the next

658
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: platoon takes the next day doing missions. Because we were

659
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: doing so many the other platoon got blown up. Um,

660
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: they came in and we uh took like mops and

661
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: bleach and washed all the blood and the skin and everything,

662
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: all this nasty stuff out of the back of the vehicles,

663
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: and uh, they're kind of like, all right, your ship

664
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: on your going out. It's like the war goes on

665
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: and the same man. That's way way more intense than

666
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: my story. The war goes on though, you know, I know,

667
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: and but I I understand what you're saying. Like the

668
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: mentality is, I don't care what just happened. It's not

669
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 1: gonna happen to me. Um. And I mean you can

670
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: call that ego. I don't. I don't know that we

671
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: called it ego. I think it was just sort of

672
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: a a a sense of denial. Yeah, yeah, there is

673
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,479
Speaker 1: an aspect of sense, you know, like it's not gonna

674
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: happen to me. I'm good, I'm good to give. So

675
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 1: is there any any other particularly hairy stories you can

676
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: share about, you know, either carry or landings or anything

677
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: else that happened, uh during your time in naval aviation. Yeah.

678
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: I mean probably the harriest thing that ever happened to

679
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: me was flying f fives and UM it started off,

680
00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: you know, as most of these stories do in a

681
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 1: in a boring way. I was flying across country, uh

682
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: in the F five and going back to Navy fallon,

683
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: and our squadron CEO really encouraged us to do some

684
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: practice landings at different airfields just so we could you know,

685
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: you know, the government is you want to justify anything

686
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: you do on paper. So I was flying into Reno

687
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: and it was a beautiful day, but there was like

688
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: thirty mile cross ones and UH, as I was coming

689
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: into land, uh, they asked me to move from the

690
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: long runway to the shorter runway because there was a

691
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: bunch of airliners taken off and the shorter runway is

692
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: still nine thousand feet long. So it's not it's not.

693
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: It didn't seem at the time like a big issue.

694
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: And the F five lands deliciously fast for an air planet,

695
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: you know. They approached speed is about hundred eighty knots,

696
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: which is almost two miles an hour um. And since

697
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: there were those nasty cross ones, actually jacked up the

698
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: approached me just a little bit. And then right as

699
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: I was about to land, one of the airliners took

700
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: off in his wake turbulence, which is kind of like

701
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,919
Speaker 1: the wake of a boat. If you could imagine sort

702
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 1: of the wash of a boat, but it's air rolled

703
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,399
Speaker 1: right across the threshold, and I started to fall out

704
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: of the sky a little bit, so I goosed the

705
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: power and um I floated a few thousand feet down

706
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 1: the runway. And then as soon as I touched down,

707
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 1: my left tire, which was the the up wind tire blue,

708
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: but I didn't know it because the wind from that

709
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: side was kept, you know, the lift on that wing.

710
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: And as I rolled out, I had no idea that

711
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: I was missing one of the tires. So I put

712
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 1: my nose down and put my feet on the brakes,

713
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: and the brakes in an airplane or the rudder pedal

714
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: the tops of the rudder pedals, and I put my

715
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: feet on the brakes, and my left rudder pedals just

716
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 1: went all the way to the floor. There was no

717
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: not only no break, but no tire. And at that

718
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 1: point I was absolutely stuck. I was too slow to

719
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: take off. I was too fast to stop on the

720
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: remaining runway. I couldn't pull a parachute in the airplane

721
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: because of the cross wind. It would a weather vane

722
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: the airplane and I would end up rolling down the

723
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: runway sideways, and there was no long field gear for

724
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: me to drop my hook to to catch, so it

725
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 1: was kind of skinning down the runway on one tire

726
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: until that overhea didn't blue, and then I was just

727
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: skidding down the runway on on the metal hubs of

728
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: the airplane. And uh, fortunately I slowed down enough that

729
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: when I hit the end of the runway, UM, I

730
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: shut the engines off so I wouldn't suck up any

731
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: rocks into the engine. And then I thought I was

732
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: just gonna go straight, but there was just anough side

733
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: slip where the plane heaved up on its side, paused

734
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: for a second, and then flipped over and the canopy

735
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 1: glass smashed. And I didn't know this until the moment,

736
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: but it's like a three quarter inch thick PLEXI glass

737
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: and when it breaks it it breaks into like this

738
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: razor sharp kind of Indiana Jones, you know, pointed daggers,

739
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: and the canopy bow bent back, and one of those

740
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: daggers punctured my my threat right here. I know you

741
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: can see it. I don't know if your podcast listeners

742
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: can imagine it, but just to the left of my

743
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: atoms apple, I got a nice little scar here and

744
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: I just hung their upside down for about ten minutes

745
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: with this thing jabbed me in the throat until the

746
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 1: fires gas could come cut me out. So it was

747
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,479
Speaker 1: pretty hairy. They don't come much closer than that now.

748
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: I figure, you know, if I had been going maybe

749
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: a couple knots faster, that thing would have pierced my

750
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: jugular and I would have led out before anybody got there.

751
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 1: So jeez, man, that's a crazy story. So so what years,

752
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 1: uh did your naval career of Spain. I graduated college

753
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: in eighty seven, so I started flying then and I

754
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: flew for twenty years till those seven So very stereotypical year.

755
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: But that's around the time of the popularity of Top Gun. Yeah,

756
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: well what did you What did you think of Top

757
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: Gun when it came out? Um? Yeah, I mean, I've

758
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: got a funny story about Top Gun. So that F

759
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: fourteen ride that I told you about was the summer

760
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 1: before Top Gun came out. Um, so, I and I

761
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: had no clue that the movie was coming out. It

762
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 1: was just a college student. Uh. So the movie comes

763
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: out and I of course go to see it and

764
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: I'm just freaking Yeah, it's like the coolest thing I've

765
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 1: ever seen in my life. Um, and for the only

766
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: time in my life, I literally stay and watch every

767
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: last word of the credits. Right nobody watches the credits.

768
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: I'm the only person in the movie theater credits. And

769
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: the dude that flew me in the F fourteen when

770
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: I was a student nine months prior turned out to

771
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,439
Speaker 1: have been the coordinator for the F fourteen scenes. He's

772
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: the guy that did that fly by of the tower

773
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: that made the guy spill his coffee. He was the guy.

774
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:53,439
Speaker 1: And I literally stood up in the middle of movie

775
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: theater like that was my guy, that was me and

776
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: there was nobody there. But it was hilarious and um yeah,

777
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 1: I mean Top Gun definitely affected at least the first

778
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: ten years of my Navy career. Um, Miramar. I mean,

779
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys heard the stories of Merrimar,

780
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: but it was like freaking Studio fifty four in the seventies,

781
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: but at an officers club on a base, there was

782
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: a line an hour long for people that were not

783
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,720
Speaker 1: military to get in and go party on a Wednesday night. Um,

784
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: it was. It was intense and you know it it

785
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: uh that movie and that sort of celebrity status definitely permanated,

786
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: permeated the F fourteen community until they went away. I

787
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: mean it's the top the The F fourteen is still

788
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: regarded as like the celebrity fighter fighter plane. Yeah, I

789
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: mean the movie is no doubt a great use of it,

790
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: and in a good way. I know people associate the

791
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: word propaganda negatively, but like a good use of military

792
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: propaganda to get people to join too, in which to

793
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 1: make the military look cool. And we're big fans of

794
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 1: Top Gun here, I mean the theme of this show.

795
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 1: Originally I've mentioned on the show before, I think, but

796
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: I was using the actual Top Gun theme to end

797
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: the show and I started to think someone on that

798
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,720
Speaker 1: movie could possibly be a listener and it could result

799
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 1: in us getting all of our episodes taken down or something.

800
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: So I stopped using it for that reason. And people

801
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 1: always listening to the theme of the show now and

802
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: they're like, I think of Top Gun when I hear

803
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: that theme. And basically, my friend John Burns, who's an

804
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: excellent guitar player, if you check out, I'll give a

805
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: shameless pug John. I think it's John Burns band dot

806
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: com b y r n S. But I basically said

807
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 1: to John, can you give us something that is pretty

808
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: much the Top Gun theme? But it's not the top

809
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 1: totally not the Top Gun. And that's the people here

810
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: at the opening and the closing of this show. So

811
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: every now and again, like I put up the video

812
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: with Rob O'Neill, and people were like, I get the

813
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,439
Speaker 1: urged watch Top Gun every time I hear the theme

814
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: of the show. Uh right, And we'll get into the book.

815
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: But actually, what do you think of the fact that

816
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a follow up? I believe like a

817
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: year from now. Yeah. No, I have a couple of

818
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: friends working on it. It sounds like they're gonna do

819
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: a great job, that they're committed to it. Literally. The

820
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: only thing that bumps me out about um the film,

821
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: that the second film is that there's gonna be an

822
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: F fourteen in it. And uh my my sequel has

823
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: in a fourteen as well. So I've got to I've

824
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: got to jam my book and get it out before

825
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: the movie because I don't get scooped by those guys.

826
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,439
Speaker 1: Yeah well, I mean, come on, you you were saying

827
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: that the F four teens are like, you know, the

828
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: celebrity aircraft. I mean you're not gonna make top gun

829
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: about the fucking f thirty five, Like, come on you

830
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: I agree, I totally agree. But and you know, the

831
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: the issue is there's only one country that flies in

832
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: fourteens anymore, right, it's the Iranians. So it's a natural

833
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 1: storyline for anybody that's interested in fourteens, But it's it

834
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: all leads to the same thing. Is that going to

835
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: be the plot of your book or is it the

836
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: plot of the film? Um? I think so. I don't

837
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 1: know what the plot of the movie is. I know

838
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: that they have inserted and A fourteen into that storyline somehow,

839
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: And like I said, I mean, there's only one place

840
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: where they could find one that's flying, uh, you know,

841
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: in in uh in a fictional world. Um. And then

842
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: in my book as well, you know, it's the same thing.

843
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: And you know, my my guys flying missions over the

844
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: golf he gets shot down somehow managed to steal in

845
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 1: A fourteen and hilarity ensues. But um, you know, like

846
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: I said, there's only there's country anymore, the FLA fourteen.

847
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: So anybody that's interested is going to actually be drawn

848
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 1: to that part of the world. We'll have to get

849
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: into your novel a bit and as a guy who

850
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: is you know, a ground guy, I didn't think I'd

851
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: have that much interest, but when I read, uh, I

852
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: read Dan Hampton's novel The Mercenary, and I actually really

853
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: liked it. Um. I thought it was really interesting to

854
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: see like and I'm sure you do the same thing,

855
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: bring that kind of aviators background into telling telling a

856
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: thriller novel and telling that kind of story. So sure, Yeah,

857
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear about you know, your book and

858
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: uh and kind of what you brought to the table

859
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, I left to talk about it, so

860
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: let's get into it. Then. The book is a list

861
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 1: of the sky it it comes out, as I said

862
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 1: today for people listening as this comes out. Uh. And

863
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: and it's your first thriller. It is my first thriller. Yeah. Um,

864
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 1: I like to tell people. Look, I've I flew in

865
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: the Navy for twenty years, but I've been a writer

866
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 1: my whole life. Um. I've written a bunch of articles,

867
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: and I tried my innit screenplays and stuff like that.

868
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,760
Speaker 1: But really what I've always want to do is write,

869
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: uh fiction, write novels. And this is my first for

870
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: into that field. Um. Lines of the Sky is essentially

871
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: a distillation of like all the crazy stuff that happened

872
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:47,720
Speaker 1: to me when I was flying uh in the Navy,

873
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: all the crazy uh you know, characters and personalities and

874
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: and really every dramatic and outlandish scene that happens in

875
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: the book is is something that actually happened. Um, you know,

876
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: down to the the climactic battle scene, which again is

877
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: a fictionalized version of of something that really happened. There

878
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 1: was really a Chinese submarine that was getting accidentally being

879
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: hunted by a Navy S three and it you know,

880
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: it caused uh, the Chinese to launch a bunch of

881
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: fighter planes, no ship, I mean it really happened, that's

882
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 1: how close. And they didn't realize they were hunting a

883
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: Chinese submarine. They didn't they were supposed to be hunting

884
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,919
Speaker 1: an American submarine. Chinese submarine that just happened to be there.

885
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 1: And and you know the soft off the coast of

886
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: Chinese between Taiwan, Taiwan and China. Yeah, that'll cause some

887
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 1: heartburn right there. Yeah. So they thought they were doing

888
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: such a great job. They're like, I'm gonna never we

889
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: never find these American subs and uh, it's s dropping

890
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: stone of movies and you know, flying over this thing,

891
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: this the Chinese sub captain and again this is a

892
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: true story. He panics and he sends a message back

893
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: to you know, the mainland, and they scramble a bunch

894
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 1: of fighters and you know, in the world, in the

895
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: real world, they diffuse the situation pretty quickly. And in

896
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: my book, that is the dramatic, uh, the battle scene

897
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 1: that is like the ultimate fear in a way. I mean,

898
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: it's one thing to go to war with another country deliberately,

899
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:23,919
Speaker 1: but to have have it happened accidentally is kind of terrifying. Yeah, well,

900
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: I think you know, so I mean to answer to

901
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: get back to the question about what you know talking

902
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: about the book a little bit. Um. It's a thriller,

903
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: so you know, I've got a very standard uh, start

904
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: off with standard lead character. He's a fighter pilot. He's

905
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: a hard build. He's a hero because he shot down

906
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: a couple of MiGs prior to the story starting, but

907
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,399
Speaker 1: it cost him one of his best friend's lives. So

908
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: he it's a it's a mantle that he wears heavily.

909
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 1: He doesn't like talking about it at all, and he's

910
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: ready to go back to the fleet. He's been in

911
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: Destructor Pilot for a couple of years and he's kind

912
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: of sick of deal with these kids, and he's ready

913
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,439
Speaker 1: to get back into the action. UM. And on top

914
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: of that, he's got some issues with with women in

915
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 1: the cockpit, women in combat UM. And his last class,

916
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: the class he's got to deal with before he goes back,

917
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,280
Speaker 1: of course, has not one but two women UH. And

918
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: you know they're they're great characters. UM. The female lead

919
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,399
Speaker 1: character is based on one of my squad mates, Carol Green,

920
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: who unfortunately passed away flying the fourteen UM. But she

921
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: was somebody who you know, I always really admired for

922
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: her courage and her perseverance and hurt. The character in

923
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: this book is essentially answering the question, you know, what

924
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 1: would Kara's career and life have had looked like had

925
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: she had she not perished UM. And then, as I

926
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, set against UH, the action and the drama

927
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: of going through training and all the challenges that we

928
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: discussed earlier about going through training UH and failure points.

929
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: UM is the steady drum beat of rising tensions in

930
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: the South China Sea. And to your point, you know

931
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 1: it's it's uh, it's a flash point. They call it

932
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,720
Speaker 1: a flashpoint for a reason. Like you put uh people

933
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: with weapons and training into a small area, uh and

934
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:24,439
Speaker 1: high tensions, and the chances are, uh, that's something could happen.

935
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,919
Speaker 1: And you know, like I said, in real life, the story, uh,

936
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: the MiGs were called back. But in my book on

937
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: my characters, after having survived each other and survived training,

938
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,919
Speaker 1: now are thrown immediately into a confrontation in the South China.

939
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: See was that interesting for you as a as a

940
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 1: former fighter pilot to kind of like war game it

941
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:50,839
Speaker 1: in your mind's eye, like what that might look like?

942
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: You know. I mean I shamelessly took all the stories

943
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 1: from when I was flying and just sort of put

944
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 1: them in a in a locker or for future fictionalization,

945
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: you know. And my buddy who was actually in the

946
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: squad and that was prosecuting that Chinese sub, when he

947
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: told me that story, I'd literally like filed it away.

948
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 1: This is an amazing story. Nobody will ever believe it,

949
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: but it's a it's a great story. It's fantastic. Yeah,

950
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: and like no one's ever really heard of it. I mean,

951
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: at least I know I haven't. Yeah, well, nothing happened, right,

952
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: I mean, but this kind of stuff happens all the time.

953
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: And I think now with with the enhanced video capabilities

954
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: that everybody has, with all these HD cameras floating around,

955
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 1: even in just fighter jets, UM, we see a little

956
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,280
Speaker 1: bit more of it. I mean we over the past

957
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: few years, we've seen the Russian planes that are making

958
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: close passes on American UM observation planes by planes and

959
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But that's been going on since the

960
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: beginning of the Cold War. You know, that's never not happened.

961
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: We just have evidence of it now and you know

962
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: people share, you know, on social media with you know,

963
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 1: fake outrage like oh my god. You know, it's been

964
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: going on for forty years. So we have a lot

965
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 1: of younger listeners who kind of listened to the show

966
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: is inspiration. They'll say, we actually just read an email

967
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: on the show during the intro of someone thinking of

968
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,879
Speaker 1: joining the army at older age and at seven. I'm

969
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,439
Speaker 1: sure there's plenty of younger kids listening right now who

970
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: want to do what you did. What what advice would

971
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 1: you give them? Um? I think the biggest piece of

972
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: advice is what I mentioned earlier. There's no such thing

973
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: as an accidental fighter pilot. If you are interested in

974
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 1: becoming a Navy fighter pilot, you better really want it.

975
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: And it's the same with special forces. I mean there's

976
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 1: so many, uh natural obstacles. You know, you have to

977
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: be physically fit, you have to have a certain degree

978
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 1: of intelligence to pass the academics and the training, um.

979
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: But there are also a bunch of artificial obstacles, like

980
00:52:56,120 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: there are way more people that want to do it

981
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: then can do it, So there's a funnel there, um.

982
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: And you know, there's literally every flight you go on

983
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: is a final exam. I mean, if you fail it,

984
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 1: you only get three strikes. If you fail three times

985
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: in training, you're out by the way, which is kind

986
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: of an interesting shift from what you did Jack, as

987
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: you talk about in your book, that you can kind

988
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: of keep, you know, if eventually you can get through

989
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 1: the qualifications. Yeah, well they'll allow you opportunities to recycle. Yeah,

990
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:34,240
Speaker 1: but it's not like as Paco saying, like three chances

991
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: and you're done, done deal. Yeah, I mean I've always

992
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: so I don't know, and Jack your arranger, right, yeah,

993
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 1: arrangers and then SF after that, right, So I don't

994
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: know much about the Army. I know a little bit

995
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: about the Navy Seals and their training. And you know

996
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: that bell has always fascinated me. You know the fact

997
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 1: that they don't they don't kick you out you gotta quit,

998
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: that just blows my mind. It's such a mind funk.

999
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: It's it's great. Um. It's not like that in in aviation.

1000
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: I mean there are certain you know that when you

1001
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: go on a flight, Like I said, there's about fifteen

1002
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: different things you're graded on and it's changes slightly on

1003
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,839
Speaker 1: on every flight. But you know, if you get enough

1004
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: below averages or fails year out, you know, they just

1005
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 1: don't want to waste their time. It's so expensive to

1006
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 1: fly those planes around and so it can be dangerous,

1007
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 1: life threatening. Um. You know, it's not just yourself that

1008
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna kill, it's potentially other people as well. So yeah,

1009
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 1: and there's always that pressure, um to to perform and

1010
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 1: it and so you know, you go through your high

1011
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: school and your college days, uh, and you study for

1012
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: your tests and you you know, you hope you pass.

1013
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: That stress happens on a daily basis. When you're in

1014
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:50,879
Speaker 1: flight school. Every single flight is a final exam. Um so,

1015
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: I mean my advice to a young person is, it's

1016
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: an amazing world. It's fantastic. There's nothing like it. I

1017
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:59,720
Speaker 1: mean I only flew for twenty years, and it feels

1018
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: like it. You know, I have experiences for five lifetimes

1019
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: and twenty books. You know, there there's tons of stuff.

1020
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: Uh and and I'm reminded of many of the details

1021
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: you know now doing pr for the book. It's like,

1022
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 1: holy crap, that was you know, all that stuff happened

1023
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 1: in just a six month deployment. It's insane. Um. So,

1024
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: there's nothing like it. It's it's incredible, it's great, but

1025
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,720
Speaker 1: you have to really want to do it. And um

1026
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, I made this documentary called Speed and Angels.

1027
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys are familiar with that,

1028
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: but it was. It was a documentary about two of

1029
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: the last kids to go through A fourteen training and they,

1030
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: unlike myself, they had been enamored with the F fourteen

1031
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: and passionate about flying the F fourteen from when they

1032
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: were ten years old, and they from the age of ten,

1033
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: they dedicated everything they did in life like sports academics.

1034
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 1: They both went to the Naval Academy. They they really

1035
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: focused hard on becoming a fourteen pilots and uh, you know,

1036
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 1: while I didn't quite have that level of commitment, they

1037
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 1: they are probably more exemplary of, you know, the type

1038
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: of passion it takes to get through. As I said

1039
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 1: when I was introducing you, you still also fly the

1040
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: Yact fifty recreationally. On the podcast, we've had on Captain

1041
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: Jarry Yell and before he died, of course, who flew

1042
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 1: the last combat mixing over Japan for the US at

1043
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,879
Speaker 1: what it was called the time Army Air Forces, And

1044
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: just about up until his death, this guy was still flying,

1045
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: which was remarkable. Do you see flying recreationally being something

1046
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: that you're gonna do pretty much forever? I mean, I

1047
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 1: think so. I I did not get into aviation um

1048
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,800
Speaker 1: until I went to Navy Flight School, and then after

1049
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 1: that I went you know, I became a commercial pilot,

1050
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:49,240
Speaker 1: and then I didn't get introduced to you know, civilian aviation,

1051
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 1: piston airplane flying until I got out of the reserves

1052
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 1: just about ten years ago. Uh. And I was kind

1053
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 1: of a snob, you know, I had flown the coolest

1054
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: in the fastest jets on the planet, and I just

1055
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: didn't think there was anything that was going to hold

1056
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: my attention. And a friend of mine took me flying

1057
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:10,320
Speaker 1: in in his two seat yak and I hadn't flown,

1058
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: I had pulled g's in a few months, you know,

1059
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: and you started getting the shakes and missing it a

1060
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: little bit, getting the hankard for it. UM. And I

1061
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: went out and flew with these guys and it was fantastic,

1062
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: you know. It was just like it wasn't quite the

1063
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: level of you know, flying supersonic or pulling six seven

1064
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: g s and a dog fight in a jet, but

1065
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: it was it was close enough. And so I got

1066
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: dragged into that world. Uh, and finally bought my own plane.

1067
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: And it's it's a great aviation challenge, you know. It's

1068
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 1: it's a tail wheeler plane, which I had no experience

1069
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: obviously flying before. It's a radial engine, which is very unique. UM.

1070
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: And it's it's a great UM. I guess it's a

1071
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: pastime or a hobby. I mean, it's almost shameful to

1072
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: say that it's diminishes the inted city of it. But

1073
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: you know, it's a great way to go spend a

1074
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: weekend day, go out and flight twice with your buddies.

1075
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: And pull six seven g s for an hour and

1076
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: a half each and um, I I can't see letting

1077
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: that go, certainly not in the near future. And just

1078
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 1: to get back to your book. Today is the actual

1079
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: release day, the day that this comes out. Yeah, oh

1080
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 1: so tomorrow tomorrow will be the release date. Tomorrow's So

1081
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: you had in the back of your mind writing fiction

1082
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: for quite a while, it sounds like, yeah, I mean,

1083
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 1: I had to work up the courage to do it.

1084
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 1: I knew it was gonna be, um a long process

1085
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: because writing fiction is, as you know, unlike other types

1086
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 1: of writing. Um. And I knew that, you know, the

1087
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: like my first draft was gonna suck all the way

1088
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: through my twentie draft. Uh. And it was going to

1089
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: take way longer than I thought. It was going to

1090
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 1: be more difficult, um than I hoped, And it exceeded

1091
00:58:55,920 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 1: all of those expectations in terms of pain and effort them.

1092
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,479
Speaker 1: But you know, I I'm extremely proud of the book.

1093
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: I I got a top notch um editor to help

1094
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 1: me sort of take the words and arrange them in

1095
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: the proper manner to you know, so logically flow in

1096
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 1: a novelized form. Uh. And I got a great agent,

1097
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: and you know it's all played out really well, so, uh,

1098
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 1: the effort was definitely worth it. I'm super proud of

1099
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: the book. It's fun, it's it's exciting, and it's genuine.

1100
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: So that's all the things. Yeah, I can't wait to

1101
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 1: read it. I'm gonna definitely add it to my list.

1102
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 1: I gotta. I have a book about World War One

1103
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 1: that a friend wrote I have to read first, but

1104
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 1: I we'll get I will get to yours next. And congratulations.

1105
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: I mean it's a it's a big commitment, as you

1106
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 1: found out, to write a book, even a novel. Yeah. Absolutely.

1107
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,440
Speaker 1: I mean I don't know about your experience, but my

1108
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: I feel like I could write nonfiction fairly quickly. Um,

1109
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: you know, taking taking real world events and fictionalizing them

1110
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: and creating uh likable incredible characters and then fashioning an

1111
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 1: interesting story. Uh was a challenge, I thought. Um, I

1112
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 1: find writing fiction to be you know, more enjoyable and

1113
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: funner um because I don't have to get the facts right,

1114
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 1: like if I fudge it a little bit, it's okay.

1115
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: Writing writing nonfiction is uh. Nonfiction is more meaningful, of course,

1116
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: because it's actual events, actual people. But I really feel

1117
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: the pressure like you gotta get it right, you know. Yeah,

1118
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 1: you know I feel that same pressure with with writing military,

1119
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, naval aviation fiction, because there's there's a fair

1120
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: amount of hardware, right, and you've got to get the

1121
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: weights and the speeds and all these things that I

1122
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: kind of forgot, you know, because it was about ten

1123
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: years ago when I was shooting missiles. Um. But you know,

1124
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: I actually had a buddy of mine at top gun

1125
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: graduate read the book, uh and thank god, because it

1126
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: was a couple of like really minor but significant uh

1127
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: errors in there that that would have been incredibly embarrassing.

1128
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: You know, something as as small as you know, an

1129
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: aircraft carrier, one of the new aircraft carriers that I

1130
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: never went to, only as three arresting gear wires. And

1131
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: in my book, in one scene, the character barely catches

1132
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 1: the four wire and he's like, hey, dude, you know

1133
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: this it's got three wires funk man. And I'll never know,

1134
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 1: but your bros Will definitely point it out to you

1135
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 1: at their next time. But you know, I love so

1136
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: I mean, what drives me to write the stories is

1137
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 1: the love of story, right, I mean the love of

1138
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 1: the great characters and and being able to put them

1139
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: in these dramatic and exciting situations, you know, And for

1140
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 1: the first book, UM having students going through F e

1141
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: teen training I thought was just such a great way

1142
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: to tell the story of that environment. And I was

1143
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 1: always fascinated by the fact that, you know, we go

1144
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 1: through training in the airplane and you become qualified to

1145
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 1: fly whatever it is, the fourteen or the F eighteen,

1146
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: and the day you finish, you're essentially a qualified fighter

1147
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: pilot in the tin and you could go to war,

1148
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: but in reality, you barely know how to function, right.

1149
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 1: You're just the training wheels barely come off, and you

1150
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: you kind of know where all the switches are and

1151
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 1: and have a very light sense of the tactics, and

1152
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:29,440
Speaker 1: you could very well, and it's happened many times before.

1153
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 1: You you know, a week later you could be in

1154
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 1: the ship in combat with people shooting at you and

1155
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: hoping you're not screwing it up, and you know, that's

1156
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 1: that was kind of the sense I wanted to to

1157
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 1: portray in this book, is like the excitement of going

1158
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 1: through training and the challenges and then no ship. A

1159
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: week later, you're in the South China Sea and the

1160
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: Chinese are flying around with missiles and they're not happy

1161
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: that you're there. And uh, in my novels, I mean,

1162
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 1: you're right. I mean I put a lot of research

1163
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: into them because they're military fiction also, and uh, you'll

1164
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 1: never forgive me the There are a couple uh significant

1165
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: errors in the books that I found. One involved the

1166
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 1: recoilst rifle. My second novel, though, I mentioned an F

1167
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 1: sixteen flying off of a carrier. Yeah, and someone pointed

1168
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 1: that out to me and I was like that that

1169
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 1: that's yeah. I felt shot through the heart too, because

1170
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: it's like, that's something even I should have known. I

1171
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 1: should have known better than that. Um, but that's that's

1172
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: in there. That's in the second book. So if you

1173
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: get to that, if you read the book, if you

1174
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 1: read Target Deck and you get to that sentence, just

1175
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: in your mind, erase that. Yeah, I will definitely do that.

1176
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: That's funny. And you're I mean, you're a guy who

1177
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 1: has experienced in both as you mentioned, Um, you've written

1178
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: for a load out room for example, shameless plug there,

1179
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 1: but you've you've written some nonfiction stuff as well as this,

1180
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 1: so you you have experienced in both worlds. Yeah. I

1181
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 1: was actually the editor of Fighter Sweep for for a while.

1182
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 1: You know what, I'm screwing things up here. I meant

1183
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: say Fighter Sweep. I'm getting up with all our sites.

1184
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: Yeah you were the editor and have written for Fighter Sweep. Yep, yeah,

1185
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 1: so yep. Like you said, I've got a fair amount

1186
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 1: of nonfixtion ever written a bunch of articles for right

1187
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 1: of magazines. Um, but this was this was the big elephant. Man.

1188
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: I want to I want to write fiction. Awesome, we'll

1189
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 1: pick it up once again. The website is Lines of

1190
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 1: the Sky dot com. I figured i'd give that out

1191
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 1: because it has links to everything. You wondered where you

1192
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 1: could buy the book. It is your Instagram, your Facebook, Twitter.

1193
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 1: What's the name of the novel? Again? Lines of this

1194
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: it's the same as website. Got yeah, okay, yes exactly

1195
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 1: so yeah, Lines of the Sky dot Com. Anything else

1196
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: before we wrap this up. It's been a great conversation.

1197
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Now, it's been a real pleasure

1198
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 1: to be here. Great appearance. There be sure, of course

1199
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 1: to check out Create Club. It's a club fore men

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Speaker 1: And I should mention that we have the Great Club

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Speaker 1: Academy taking place September to nine at Virginia International Race Way.

1212
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: If you're in the area. Uh, it's gonna be training

1213
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 1: by guys that you've heard on here, Brandon Webb, Scott Whittner,

1214
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Speaker 1: Nick Betts. So yeah, check that out. Great Club dot

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01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 1: Us Slash Academy, RK Davis as well. I think there's

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1217
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 1: as a reminder for those who are listening, now is

1218
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 1: the time to sign up for the spec Ops Channel,

1219
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: our channel that offers the most exclusive shows, documentaries, and

1220
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 1: interviews covering the most exciting military content today. The spec

1221
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 1: Ops Channel premier show Training self follows former Special Operations

1222
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 1: Forces as they participate in the most advanced training in

1223
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 1: the country, everything from shooting school's, defensive driving, jungle and

1224
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Speaker 1: winter warfare, climbing and much more. Again, you can watch

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01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 1: this content by subscribing to the spec Ops channel at

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01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: spec ops channel dot com and take advantage of a

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01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: membership for only four nine a month. That's spec ops

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01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 1: channel dot com. Sign up today. Last, if you're not

1229
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 1: already signed up at the News Rep, you've got to

1230
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 1: get on board expert reporting and actionable intelligence from your

1231
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 1: favorite writers you've heard on here, Jack Murphy, Alex Hollings,

1232
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 1: all the guest writers that pop up as well. Unlimited

1233
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 1: access to News Rep on any device, unlimited access to

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01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 1: the app, joined the war Room community, invitations to our

1235
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 1: exclusive events, and it's all add free from members. We

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01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,120
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Speaker 1: So sign up now at the news Rep dot com.

1239
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 1: That's the news Rep dot com. And for those not

1240
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 1: in the know, we have our own software, prey To app,

1241
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 1: where you can download for free on iPhone or Android

1242
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: uh and we have every episode in its entirety up

1243
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 1: on there, because some of these are not up on

1244
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts anymore, um when they were behind the paywall

1245
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: and just added some confusion. So all those are up

1246
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: at software radio dot com as always keep up with

1247
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:23,600
Speaker 1: us as well at software Radio on Instagram and Twitter.

1248
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 1: And I know you're looking at your book here because

1249
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 1: it's out in the next couple of weeks. Right, I'm

1250
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:29,920
Speaker 1: sorry you, And I was okay attention to what you

1251
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 1: were saying because I was sitting here in this book

1252
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: that was sitting on our desk called Murphy's Law. Yeah,

1253
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 1: or how how Brad Thorpe called it. Powerful, gritty, real

1254
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 1: and absolutely captivating account of bravery and adventure. And that's

1255
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: written by Jack Murphy, my journey from army rangering green

1256
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 1: beret to investigative journalist. Out astores everywhere. Pick it up,

1257
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:56,080
Speaker 1: pick it up. It's it's pretty good so far. I

1258
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 1: mean I'm always I'm only up to, you know, page twenty,

1259
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 1: but I enjoy it so far. Yeah, I actually am

1260
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 1: enjoying it so far. So yeah, pick it up, guys.

1261
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:07,520
Speaker 1: UM great appearance as a pre orders count pre orders

1262
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 1: get your pre orders in Audiobook, UM Audio Books Caudio

1263
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 1: Book read by you too, so narrated by the author.

1264
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 1: Yeah coming soon a um but yeah no, As I said,

1265
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 1: great appearance from Paco for the first time on the show. Uh.

1266
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:24,919
Speaker 1: And you know what I wanted to mention really quickly

1267
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,720
Speaker 1: is that friend of the show, Phil Lavanti, all that

1268
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 1: remains is going back on tour with Unearthed and support.

1269
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 1: They're actually playing right by me, so I'll probably coach

1270
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 1: that I love on Earth. They're great live band, and

1271
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 1: this is I think like probably the first one of

1272
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 1: the first tours they're doing without their original guitarist, Ali,

1273
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 1: who passed away. And I've been kind of keeping up

1274
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 1: with all the heavy metal media out there that basically

1275
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 1: this this I think it's such a bullshit man. So uh,

1276
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: I've talked about it on the show, kind of the

1277
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 1: feud between Phil, who has been on the show and

1278
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:01,479
Speaker 1: the wife of their guitarist, Ali, who he thinks there

1279
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 1: might have been some foul play with his death kind

1280
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 1: of hiss insinuated it without saying it. Um. So Phil

1281
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 1: and the band have released like the last recordings ever

1282
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 1: of Ali, their guitarist, So I'm sure the fans want

1283
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:15,880
Speaker 1: to hear. They've been following this band for you know,

1284
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 1: twenty years and she has come out and said, I

1285
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:21,760
Speaker 1: didn't give them permission to like release that stuff, and

1286
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 1: why do they need your permission? Honestly, it's it's their band.

1287
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 1: He he was in the band until he died. I'm

1288
01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 1: sure he would want the fans to hear that. So

1289
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's some legal issue with the

1290
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 1: estate or not. Yeah, it just mean it doesn't sound right.

1291
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: But was he I mean, if he was under contract

1292
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: for that an album or something with the band at

1293
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 1: the time. You I mean, I don't know what the

1294
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 1: and I think it's just it's just doing the right

1295
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 1: thing in terms of the fans wanting to hear from

1296
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:47,720
Speaker 1: this guy that they love, right. I mean that's if

1297
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 1: let's be honest, if you dropped that tomorrow, I am

1298
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 1: releasing this episode. I'm not. I'm not calling up any

1299
01:09:55,000 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 1: and your permission to put this up. If I could killed,

1300
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,200
Speaker 1: if I get hit by like a city bus, I

1301
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:04,600
Speaker 1: expect you guys to start running off T shirts like

1302
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 1: never Forget Jack Murphy, you know, hashtag something like that, which,

1303
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:10,679
Speaker 1: by the way, is kind of messed up. Man. I've

1304
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 1: I've mentioned it, I think a while back, but there's

1305
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 1: so many um of these like and I don't really

1306
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: care if they're veteran on like veteran own T shirt

1307
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 1: companies that still are selling shirts about ben Ghazi with

1308
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,640
Speaker 1: like Gwen Doherty's name on it, in Tywood's name on

1309
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 1: it without permission to the families. The money doesn't go

1310
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 1: to the families. It kind of fucked up in the monetization. Yeah,

1311
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think if you're gonna, you know,

1312
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:36,920
Speaker 1: if you want to print a ben Ghazi shirt, I

1313
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 1: don't know, it's sort of in port taste. But if

1314
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:41,519
Speaker 1: you're gonna write Glen Doherty's name on it and the

1315
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 1: money doesn't go to Glen Doughty Memorial Foundation, it's it's

1316
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 1: really shot. It's also like you're using their their deaths

1317
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 1: and their names to advance an agenda. Yeah you know, yeah,

1318
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:55,640
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not sufficed to say I would not

1319
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:59,639
Speaker 1: be wearing that shirt. Yeah you know so, yeah, but

1320
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 1: but it is kind of funny if they with Jack

1321
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 1: Murphy shirts but it just get my face on it. Yeah,

1322
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,639
Speaker 1: god forbid if that you know, it does happen, of course,

1323
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:11,600
Speaker 1: but I'm just you but remember me and with and rebuild.

1324
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: Uh but yeah, I will probably be at that show

1325
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 1: and the first show in Amityville, and I would uh,

1326
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear more, you know, as as stuff

1327
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 1: advances with that. It really is a shame what happened.

1328
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 1: I saw and other music news since he's the guy

1329
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 1: that I am, you know, have become friendly with that

1330
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 1: Stained is reuniting for some some rock festival and they'll

1331
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 1: probably do a tour after that. But I've I've hung

1332
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:40,320
Speaker 1: out with Aaron Lewis because of you know, my association

1333
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:42,800
Speaker 1: with Andrew Wilcow and like, couldn't be a cooler guy

1334
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 1: despite all of the negative media that surrounds him at times,

1335
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:49,759
Speaker 1: Well what's what's he got? There's a lot of really

1336
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 1: weird ship that's happened the lead singer, Yeah, he's the

1337
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 1: lead singer Stained, and you know, he seems like a

1338
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,560
Speaker 1: super nice guy and he's a lot of people I

1339
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 1: think gave him shipped for one for when he decided

1340
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:04,080
Speaker 1: to do a solo country career and they were like yeah,

1341
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 1: I mean and very successful and I think people like

1342
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 1: something the national anthem and uh, you know World Series

1343
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: game once he did that, and but I think a

1344
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 1: lot of people thought it was like disingenuous to go

1345
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:17,920
Speaker 1: from this band that was you know on Limp Biscuits,

1346
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 1: l able to do in country. But I actually really

1347
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 1: think that's who Aaron is. Like that's you want to

1348
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 1: try something different? Yeah, and uh I remember Actually Joe

1349
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:27,640
Speaker 1: Rogan on the podcast was making fun of like in

1350
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 1: the video for um uh Country Boys, that what it's good.

1351
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:35,639
Speaker 1: I haven't heard this song in a while. But he's

1352
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 1: holding it's a picture of him is like a four

1353
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:41,760
Speaker 1: year old holding like his granddad's gun. And he was like,

1354
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 1: this is that stereotypical as it gets, but like that's

1355
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 1: that's really him. He grew up in like rural Massachusetts

1356
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 1: shooting guns and ship and and it's not him like

1357
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:53,400
Speaker 1: portraying a false image. It's him. This is his country boy.

1358
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:56,120
Speaker 1: This is the same guy who uh at one of

1359
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 1: the concerts, the one where it was like I know

1360
01:12:58,000 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 1: you've seen the video where he's yelling at the guy

1361
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,559
Speaker 1: who won't stand up. Yes, that's what I'm saying. He's

1362
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:05,639
Speaker 1: gotten controversy for that, like this one motherfucker won't stay

1363
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:08,160
Speaker 1: It turns out he's in a wheelchair. That all it

1364
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 1: was it for the anthem with that, because that's no, no, no,

1365
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:12,479
Speaker 1: was that a concert? Know? What was he doing? The

1366
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 1: anthem was that? I don't no, no, it's just like,

1367
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:16,760
Speaker 1: I don't think it was that. I think it was

1368
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:19,559
Speaker 1: just a concert. Not everyone was standing up getting into it.

1369
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:21,599
Speaker 1: And there's a one guy who wouldn't stand up, and

1370
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 1: he called him out from the stage and it turned

1371
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:25,760
Speaker 1: out he was in a wheelchair. He wasn't a dick.

1372
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:27,680
Speaker 1: He was like, oh, I'm sorry, you know, I didn't know.

1373
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 1: I've heard that story before from a few bands, but

1374
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:33,599
Speaker 1: I don't know if um, Yeah, he's gotten because they

1375
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 1: do the anthem, you know, at his country shows. I

1376
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,599
Speaker 1: think he has with stained too. I mean, he's super

1377
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 1: patriotic guy. He's got don't tread of Me tattooed on

1378
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 1: his neck. You know, I have a guitar pick he

1379
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 1: gave me that has the US, uh like Constitution written

1380
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 1: on the front. Or you know, he's just but he's

1381
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 1: he's gotten crap for a lot of other things. I mean,

1382
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 1: like the most recent one I remember was I think

1383
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: he was playing somewhere in America that was near the border.

1384
01:14:01,479 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 1: I could be wrong in this, but the town predominantly

1385
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 1: spoke Spanish that he was at he was telling people

1386
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 1: to shut up. Someone came up to him and said, like,

1387
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 1: say it in Spanish to the crowd. He was like,

1388
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:14,280
Speaker 1: this is America. I was speaking English and he got

1389
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 1: he got crap for that, and that's just I don't know, man,

1390
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 1: it's him kind of being him, and uh, he's the

1391
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:24,000
Speaker 1: times I've hung out with him, he couldn't have been cool.

1392
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 1: And I would actually love to see a stay in

1393
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 1: reunion because the time I saw them at um what

1394
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 1: is now PlayStation Theater, it's been renamed many times in

1395
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:35,200
Speaker 1: Times Square. Uh, it was super awesome show. I mean,

1396
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 1: he's got an amazing voice, So I wanted to bring

1397
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 1: that up because I'd love to get him on the

1398
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 1: show at some point. And I think that's that's really it.

1399
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 1: We've covered a lot here, pick up the lines of

1400
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 1: the Sky. Yeah, no, it sounds like a cool book.

1401
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:50,200
Speaker 1: Like I was saying before, I didn't think I'd ever

1402
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:53,760
Speaker 1: really be into like aviation fiction, like not really my thing,

1403
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 1: but um, the last One, the last you know book

1404
01:14:57,080 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 1: in that genre I read I really enjoyed, So you know,

1405
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:01,760
Speaker 1: I'll definitely of this one a shot. Yeah, And and

1406
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 1: from what he was saying, it almost sounds like it

1407
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 1: would be impossible to write a aviation thriller and not

1408
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:11,639
Speaker 1: be in that world. I think that's probably right because

1409
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 1: it's so technical, you know that, Like he was saying

1410
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:17,000
Speaker 1: like he had to bring that kind of background into it,

1411
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:19,760
Speaker 1: Like I couldn't see my I could see myself and

1412
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 1: I have in my novels writing like a scene about

1413
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:24,600
Speaker 1: a fighter pilot in the cockpit and he's flying. I

1414
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:26,720
Speaker 1: can't imagine writing a book. I just don't have the

1415
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:30,200
Speaker 1: background to be able to like make that seem real. Yeah,

1416
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,560
Speaker 1: Like I know, right at or you just mentioned, for example,

1417
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:35,240
Speaker 1: talked about I think the first time he was on

1418
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 1: the show he talked about this, which was with Brandon,

1419
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 1: but he said that, um, after he's done with the book,

1420
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 1: he's good friends with Marcus Marcus and Morgan Latrelle, he'll

1421
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:46,879
Speaker 1: send it over to them, asking as this all accurate,

1422
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:48,639
Speaker 1: And he said, like they'll give him crap for stuff

1423
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:50,559
Speaker 1: and be like you got just totally wrong, and then

1424
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 1: and then I'll change it. I think aviation thriller, it

1425
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 1: sounds like it wouldn't be as easy as that. Yeah, No,

1426
01:15:56,720 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 1: I think that's probably true. Um Mark Greeney is another

1427
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:03,720
Speaker 1: guy who writes like espionage thriller novels and um, and

1428
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:05,960
Speaker 1: they're very good. Um, but he was he was also

1429
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 1: never in the military, so like he had to you know.

1430
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 1: I think he went out to the flat range and

1431
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 1: like learned how to shoot and everything else and just

1432
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 1: did a ton of research. I guess that that stuff

1433
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:18,160
Speaker 1: kind of works when like you go with what you

1434
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:20,679
Speaker 1: know and you kind of avoid what you don't know. Yeah,

1435
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:23,479
Speaker 1: I think it works in the in the author's favor

1436
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,280
Speaker 1: for forgive me audience on this one. For not known.

1437
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 1: Was Tom Clancy a better No? Okay, yeah, so interesting. Um,

1438
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 1: but pick it up the lines of this guy, and

1439
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 1: I think that's really it. Pick up mur Murphy's Law

1440
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:42,519
Speaker 1: as well. Ap April pre order. Now, all right, have

1441
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:45,240
Speaker 1: a have a great weekend, guys at soft Rep Radio

1442
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:48,719
Speaker 1: on Twitter, on Instagram at Jack Murphy RDDR, on Twitter

1443
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 1: at Ian Scotto, and we're at You've been listening to

1444
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 1: Silk Rep Lydia. New episodes up every Wednesday and Friday.

1445
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 1: Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter at self red Radio.