WEBVTT - TV Volume Declines, Box Office Rebounds: 2024 By the Numbers 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:11.760 Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:15.360 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:19.119 Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:23.360 guests are Mark Hobick and Carolyn Finger of Illuminate. Illuminate 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.799 is a data and insights company that focuses on audience 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:31.200 measurement for the entertainment industry. It's a corporate sibling of Variety, 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:35.720 under the umbrella of our parent company PMC. Of Late, 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:40.320 Illuminate has gone hard on the business of measuring streaming 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:45.200 TV viewership. That's a lot harder than it sounds. Illuminate 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:49.560 executives crunch numbers all day, every day, but they also 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:53.199 stop every so often to produce long term reports to 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:56.560 give real insights into what's going on and how things 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:01.360 are changing in this very dynamic marketplace. The twenty twenty 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:04.600 four year end Film and TV Report was issued late 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.920 last month. It's linked in the show notes to this 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:11.959 episode and the Variety dot com story for this episode, 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:16.560 and as advertised, it is packed with insights. Mark is 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.039 executive vice president and head of Film and TV for Illuminate. 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:25.240 Carolyn is Senior VP of Consumer Success and Products for Illuminate. 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.200 The three of us have known one another for a 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:32.240 long time through many different jobs. I think that comes 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.440 through in this conversation. There is a lot of laughs 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.360 and a lot of shorthand from people who know and 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:42.520 respect each other a great deal. That conversation is coming 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:59.880 right up after this break, and we're back with a 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:04.440 conversation about the year in streaming TV with Illuminates. Markobick 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.960 and Carolyn Finger. Thank you so much for joining me. 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.080 This is fun because I've known you both for so 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.760 long and I know you both to be absolute aces 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.000 at what you do, so, dear listeners, you could not 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:25.040 get a better overview of what the streaming landscape has 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:28.040 wrought in twenty twenty four than these two. So thank 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.600 you for coming all the way up from the seventh FLOORA. 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.600 Thank you for having us. Yes, that was a full 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.160 disclosure that had to happen at each. 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.120 Other, Yes, one hundred percent. No, I've learned a lot 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.400 from both of you over the years. I would like 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:44.640 to start just by throwing it out to both of you. 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:47.799 What you know. You crunch the numbers all day long. 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.760 I know hourly you're looking at data, and you're refining 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:55.080 and really getting great insights and great information as you 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:58.080 took that step back and looked at the kind of 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.400 the long the long term of the year, As you 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.360 took that step back and looked at the landscape of 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:09.080 twenty twenty four, what top line what stood out to 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.560 you as surprising? What didn't you know by doing this 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.840 report from your day to day, hour by hour efforts. 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.120 For me, I think one of my kind of top 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:25.000 level takeaways is really when we look at the content output, 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.040 and we're looking at it on the TV side, streaming 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.760 and linear together, when we look at that, while we 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:36.440 saw a lessening of the decline year over year, we 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.360 still saw a seven percent drop and that really was 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.880 effect from the reverberations we're feeling from the strikes. 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.760 And you're talking about total volume, total content. 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:49.280 Of series premiers. Yeah, thank you. And you know, in 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.760 twenty twenty three we saw a seventeen percent drop, So 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.880 a seven percent drop is an improvement in that we're 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.600 declining less quickly in terms of the number of series 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.880 premieers we're seeing, but very significant. One of the really 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:04.720 fascinating parts to the report is that while we see 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:08.520 a seven percent drop in the overall number of series released. 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:15.000 When we look at episode orders, the episode orders declined significantly, 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:19.279 so well we see this moderation of decline on the 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.760 series side. The episodes, we saw almost a twenty percent 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.839 drop year over year from prior year, and that trend 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.840 has continued now two years in a row. Was seventeen 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.400 percent in twenty twenty three and then almost twenty percent 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:36.280 in twenty twenty four. And that is the media companies 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:41.039 are really being more stingy with when they're doing series 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:43.920 or ordering series, just taking fewer episodes, and of course 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:48.440 that impacts our entire entertainment ecosystem for writers, producers, directors, 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:50.799 actors who really rely on those episodic orders. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:56.240 I would say, yes, I agree, and also I guess 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:59.920 in the biggest picture to me, all of the sign 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:05.560 posts are looking towards kind of risk mitigation for the studios. 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:07.880 And what I mean by that is, you know, we 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.040 have these terrible strikes, so we have this huge reduction 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:12.800 in production, and. 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.640 That was the reasons for the seventeen for a large 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.320 part of the reason for seventeen percent in twenty twenty three. 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:22.640 Is that accurate, Yes, But then the strikes are over, 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.360 you know, happiness reigns again in the land. But no, 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:30.000 not really because then we're having these, uh, you know, 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:34.719 this contraction on corporate level where there there's kind of 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:38.440 fear about I think number one, there's a fear around 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.240 TikTok and what are they you know, can they invest 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:46.359 in all these shows? Who's the audience for shows? So 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.239 it's all kind of spelled out. They're trying to find 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:53.160 different ways to produce fewer things, have more things that 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.920 are part of a franchise or existing on peace, safer things, 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.920 safer things, you know, the limited series which we can 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.160 talk about. You know, all of these things are kind 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.640 of spelling a net loss I think. 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.560 In the entertainment ecosystem. Yeah, and I like your answer 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.000 kind of change mine, you know, but I think, you know, 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:18.960 risk mitigation, and through this study we really see what's 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.560 working and what's not working in terms of the risk 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.960 of mitigation strategies. But yeah, I agree with what you 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:24.880 said one hundred percent. 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.039 We did see in the report that the volume of 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.600 limited series has has definitely come down because people are 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.560 I think, because people are focused on those renewable resources, 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.679 and also people are spending money on sports as opposed 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:39.039 to spending you know, ten million dollars an episode on 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.880 a six episode series like gee, who could have seen 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:48.200 that that wasn't exactly sustainable, But so it seems like 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:49.840 a good idea at the time, exactly. 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:54.680 But is there is there any discernible, any any quantification 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:59.520 of like fewer series overall and an emphasis on shows 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.839 that they hope to renew, you know, a limited series 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.680 is limited until until it works and then yeah, right, 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.280 But is there any quantifiable that that you know, focusing 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:13.400 on fewer shows has better results because you know, you 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:18.360 can market more heavily to one show really really promoted 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.160 to be you know, really promoted to an audience as 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.360 like this isn't just a one off, but you know 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:25.640 you're going to want to watch Noah Wiley or you 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:27.680 know other people in these settings. 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.360 You know, I don't think we are evidence has seen that. 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.680 The thing I would say is that we do know 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:40.480 that P and A really matters, you know, promotion advertising 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.880 when we look at film, and this is a theme 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:49.240 I think throughout content that we're seeing is that you know, 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:52.960 to what you're getting at that if we have fewer titles, 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:54.760 are we able to kind of promote those more and 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:58.160 really get through the clutter and audiences can find that 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:02.240 the recommendation just govery is a huge issue for the streamers, 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:04.640 it's a huge issue for everybody because we have so 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:06.000 many choices of content. 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:10.200 Because of the emphasis on completion rates in streaming. It's 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.760 it's just it's different. Things don't have the same kind 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.760 of breathing room that they once had with linear where 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.080 they were dropping one episode weak and you could kind 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.000 of see week to week. If you are in a 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:25.760 scenario where like Netflix, where everything is dropped all at once, 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.600 and maybe there is that initial m and a push, 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:35.000 but if it doesn't get that audience initially, then it's 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.240 much harder, I think, to get Yeah, so you know 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:39.319 it gives in, it takes. 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:43.040 That's a that's an interesting question. So if not naming 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:47.000 names or anything, but a six episode limited series drops 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:49.840 and if people do you see that, like if people 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.040 don't go to it, you know fairly soon to episode 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:55.240 one or two, like they're never going to go check 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:57.079 out They're certainly never going to go check out the 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.360 rest of it. But like it is it a time 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:01.880 sensitive thing, is what I'm saying. Like once at premieres, 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:04.480 they if you don't go to it, it's really hard 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:06.600 to get people to it a month or two later. 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.839 We see in streaming definitely the sampling and that those 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.080 first twelve weeks is really critical. And the other thing 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.800 that we know from the streamers and our discussions with 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:20.439 our partners is that that ninety percent completion rate is 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.880 very very important in order to get a second or 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.600 third season, order to get those multiple season orders. So 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.120 you know, we can see that in the data and 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:31.120 in the importance of it. 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:34.280 Yeah, and that's also important, you know, speaking of strikes, 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:39.359 you know, with the arrangements to get more residuals for streaming, 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.839 that time frame is kind of baked into that as 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:48.959 well as you know, the number of subscribers who are watching. 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:51.679 Does it follow? Do you think that as the streamer 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.040 is starting to realize that that, you know, maybe they're 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.120 not going to do a twenty two episode procedural, but 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:58.600 like Max with the Pit I believe is like fifteen 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.240 or sixteen episodes. Do you think that when we're talking 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.120 next year about about the twenty twenty five repart you 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.880 think episode council will start to inch up? 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:07.720 I hope. 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:11.479 So we did get I mean we you know, Channing. 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.680 Dungey actually made this announcement actually at Variety and in Tech. 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:16.840 I remember when she talked about the John Wells series 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.400 that they're bringing back, and they were very happy to 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.439 announce they were looking at twenty two to twenty three 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:25.640 episode orders. So I think there is that awareness of 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:30.920 this is an underserved type of content that we're just 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.560 not producing at the same volume that we are. So, 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:39.920 you know, our latest sort of feedback we've gotten from 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.079 the streamers when we've sat down with them has been 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:46.280 their focus is really looking at content with a global footprint, 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:53.160 not US centric content, and time will tell whether that 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:57.040 translates into more episodes or not. But I don't know 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:01.120 if they're seeing that quite yet at the streamers that 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.719 they need to be producing more episodes, because as the 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.319 data is showing us, they've in fact and cutting back 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.200 now for two consecutive years in terms of episode of orders. 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:11.320 And then let's talk a little bit more about comedy, 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.439 because I did notice it very very noticeable in the report, 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:19.160 all those nice color codings, very noticeable that CBS is basically, 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:21.880 I mean CBS is basically the only the really only 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.800 big brand broadcast or streaming that has a real big 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:29.000 comedy business. Netflix of course has a lot of comedies, 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.600 but in terms of elementary yeah, oh for sure, it's. 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:37.880 Absolutely, oh absolutely, but I mean really, but just in 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.839 terms of in terms of volume, and you know, the 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:44.439 conventional wisdom for decades has been, you know, you can't 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:46.400 just have one comedy on an island. You've got to 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.600 have a you've got to have an environment. And CBS 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:50.959 still seems to be kind of the last that still 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.440 has that has that environment, although you know each network 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.000 does have a few, but CBS seems to be Yeah. 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:01.319 Yeah, I think comedy is really seen as very specific culturally, 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.480 and in a world where we're looking at global distribution 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.680 for so many of these titles, it's just a harder sell. 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.600 And interesting like Netflix has had a it's been a 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.640 buzzy hit. I haven't actually looked at the numbers, but 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:17.160 buzzy hit with National Treasure Ted Danson A Man on 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.480 the Inside, and that's a remake of a I can't 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:22.920 it's a I believe from Eastern Europe there was a 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.600 form of French. I think you're a French series or 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.960 remake and I wonder if that you know that, especially 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:31.440 as you know kind of it his play in the 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:35.400 Awards game. I wonder if that could be a model, 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.480 you know, see if streamers will see, like maybe take 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:42.280 the elements, the bones of comedies that are working in 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.520 other places and try to adapt them for us and 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:47.559 vice versa. I mean, that's not a new phenomenon, but 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.839 I wonder if there will be you'll see more of that, 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.400 because my goodness, we do need laughs. 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:52.680 You know. 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.040 What I think may have helped fill in the gap 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.520 with comedy is maybe unscripted, even though we've also seen 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:02.760 unscripted yeah, declients, but yeah, I think things like Love 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.040 Is Blind or The Real Housewives, you know, I think 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:10.640 people laugh at yeah, a lot of those things as well. 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:12.720 Sometimes you laugh with, but sometimes. 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.240 You laugh at for sure. 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:16.640 And unscripted, I think is a really interesting thing for 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:21.200 us to talk about because we've seen where this you know, 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.440 during the strikes, unscripted was one of those things that 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.800 was protected. Yeah, but when we look at the actual data, 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.360 we had declines in twenty twenty three and twenty twenty 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.320 four for unscripted year over year, we're looking at eight 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:40.920 percent drop and unscripted across broadcast, cable and streaming, And 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.800 I think what's going on there. My personal take is 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:49.560 that we have It's not that we've exhausted ideas, but 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:55.199 unscripted reality program in particular is so concept driven, and 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.800 you have got to have that innovation of concepts. And 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.520 if you look at the top show the unscripted shows, 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:05.640 you've got Love is Blind, Love Island, a lot of 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:13.040 shows around Connection is So Angry. Oh stopped me in 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:18.640 my tracks. If you wanted the talkings to you, I'm. 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.560 Sorry, don't go anywhere. 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:25.680 We'll be right back with more insights from luminates Markobick 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:33.520 and Carolyn Finger right after this break, and we're back 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.080 with the rest of our conversation about the year that 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:40.880 was in twenty twenty four with illuminates Markobick and Carolyn Finger. 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.440 It's hard to understand why unscripted is declined, but one 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.080 of the things, you know, speaking what you're saying Mark 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:50.800 about it's so format driven, all of those kinds of 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:55.680 just little snippets of schadenfreude like you can get on 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:58.600 short form content. Oh true, you know. I think maybe 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.000 some specific influence have kind of filled in. 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.520 I think social media is part of that fix of 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:13.800 seeing real people misbehaving or what have you, and that 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.320 is something that you can get on TikTok and for 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.520 now and Instagram in various places. 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.280 Right, yeah, no, it's it's really interesting another you know, 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.360 in the continuing with the down trend here animation also, 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.640 I saw you know, big decline, and you would have 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:30.840 thought that that would have been. 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.760 A little more strike resilient from that impact. 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:39.560 But well, for the I think sag aren't the many 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.680 of those actors in stories, so I'm assuming that's why 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.840 they weren't able to do that. But also it does 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:50.520 seem as though from a production standpoint, there's so much 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:55.280 competition for access to animation studios and the production timeline 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.560 is so much longer that that could maybe have played 0:15:58.560 --> 0:15:59.280 a role as well. 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.520 And then say, time we have seen animated features, they've 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.440 had some real home runs. So maybe it's just kind 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.440 of a world. You know, we've all known that, you know, 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.680 Fox for whatever reason kind of has that magic magic 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.160 wand on the adult animation, and virtually everybody else that 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:19.640 has tried it, virtually everybody else has really has really struggled. 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:22.440 So it really does seem like it's a you know, 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:27.040 a feature, a feature animation for family audiences and and 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.520 you know, it just doesn't translate to two series anymore. 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.560 I wanted one thing that really also in the report 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:37.640 stands out. You do beautiful job of kind of laying 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:42.200 it out Star Wars fatigue people. I mean, it's very 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:43.840 it's very clear, and that's you know, that's got to 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.160 be a concern for Disney because that lucasfilm that has 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:49.760 been a real, real pillar of their strategy there. Now 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:51.720 as soon as we say that, they could have a 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.280 show that comes out, you know, comes out next month 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.040 and all of a sudden, we're not talking about it. 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.840 But both on the feature side, that's been very well 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:03.320 documented and on. But the viewership declining for season twos 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.520 and things is really significant. 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.919 I think the franchise fatigue is really interesting. That's one 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.080 of my favorite parts of the report as well. You know, 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:15.480 when we look at some of the biggest franchises in streaming, 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:20.040 franchises are incredibly important to the streamers in particular because 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.520 this issue of really having a universe that people can 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:28.199 access relatively quickly. But if we look at Lord of 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.879 the Rings, the Rings of Power season one, which was 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.359 released in twenty twenty two, the twenty twenty four second 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:39.240 season did not perform nearly as well. Similarly, for Marvel, 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:43.800 we know that Agatha all Along, which I personally really enjoyed, 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.800 and Echo performed under twenty twenty three releases, Low Key 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.800 Season two and Secret Invasion. 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:54.080 And it really. 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:59.680 Speaks to the importance of franchise management for these media companies, 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.720 and if they are spread too thin, if they're doing 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.520 too many things that are not really focused on these franchises, 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:10.119 you can get to a place where you're just not 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:14.960 going to get the same result. And it's unfortunate something 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.760 like The Rings of Power again really enjoyed it. Fifty 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.919 eight million dollars per episode. They've spent almost a billion 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.040 dollars off the two seasons that have been released thus far. 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:28.440 Beautifully shot. 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:30.440 I know you have some thoughts about. 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.920 For me, it was you know, I'm a nerd. I 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:39.360 you know, I love my Hobbits. It just somehow it 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.280 was too densely plotted for me or something, which is 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:44.359 that's saying a lot after reading the two towels. 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:51.000 Yes, one of the starkest pages in their report is 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.840 the share of original viewing chart. I mean, it makes 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.879 it Crystal Claire. Not that there was much doubt, but 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.320 you know, now we have the pie charts. If there's 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:04.600 a pipe chart, it's official. There's Netflix and there's everyone else. 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:05.000 Yeah. 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:09.600 For original streaming content to share, Netflix to share is 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.280 sixty three point five percent. Literally the rest of the 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:18.679 competition combined doesn't even come out for originals for originals, 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.159 which you know, which is such a huge part of this, 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:22.879 such a huge part of the marketplace. 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:28.320 I think Netflix defines an audience differently than all of 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.359 their competitors, except for maybe Prime, but you know, Prime 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:36.919 is there to feed the Amazon machine and does that 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:42.240 pretty effectively. You know, Netflix is looking I don't think 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.760 they're looking at like an audience. I think they're looking 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:49.360 at kind of the world, and so they don't feel 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:51.520 as though they have to have something that fits into 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:55.040 a particular brand. I mean that's just my you know, 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:57.640 kind of armchair thing. I feel like Apple TV they 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.520 have a more boutique kind of a pro coach to 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:04.640 TV and a more boutique audience. True, but bless them 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:07.040 for it, you know, I would say, like, for me, 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:11.000 the big surprise in some ways is Max. I don't 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:14.360 want to pick on anybody, but I'm you know, I 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:18.240 remember that a certain CEO was brought in from the 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:20.880 cable world, and there had been a lot of success 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:25.520 with a lot of unscripted franchises, and the brands have 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:30.119 been a bit diluted, and HBO has always been speaking 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:35.120 of boutiques. So there just isn't enough there to propel 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:39.199 its audience share. But I think to me, in some 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.560 ways they're the most vulnerable of all of these. 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:44.800 My my takeaway is that when we look at the pie, 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.359 what's really interesting. I think Netflix and Prime sort of 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.240 we expect to see those in one and two, but 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.440 that we see from an original content perspective, Paramount Plus 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:58.240 is in third position, and Apple TV is in fourth position, 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:03.639 followed by Who and then Disney Plus. It's really interesting 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:06.199 because you think of Disney Plus and all of the 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.480 content there, but just from an original title perspective, they 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:11.720 just haven't released that many titles in twenty twenty four. 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:16.840 Yeah, and Prime is you know, Prime is second at 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.480 eight point five percent, Like I just that's sixty three 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:21.600 that's sixty three point five percent. 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:22.520 Is very overwhelming. 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.359 It is interesting, and you know, following along that in 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:31.119 terms of other surprises, it was a surprise to me 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.000 and I watched this stuff and cover this stuff every day. 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:35.040 It was a surprise to. 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:39.400 Me that Fool Me Once was Netflix's top title based 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:41.960 on the Harlan Coben book. And I know he has 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:45.320 a massive and I believe, you know, maybe not worldwide, 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:48.119 but it has international fans, and I got to believe 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:51.240 that that fandom, yeah, helped helped drive and he's a 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.560 very well established author with a real a really specific 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:57.960 brand of storytelling. But you would not I would not 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.959 have cited that as the number one did that? But 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:04.200 I know that you've crunched the numbers on a week 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.520 you know, daily and weekly basis. But did that in 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:10.399 that year end sense? Did that really? Did that stand 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:12.040 out to you as kind of a surprise that that 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:14.680 would at year end that was the big show. Now, 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:18.080 as I understand, Squid Game may have knocked it off 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:20.880 its perch now that now that it's been out for. 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:26.880 Yeah, for tea English language also. 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:29.719 So yeah, we're only doing ro only measuring English language 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:32.480 in this particular study. So you know, Fool Me Once 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.480 they also had the benefit of premier in January first, 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.080 twenty twenty four, it had the whole year. And what's 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:42.640 interesting is when we look at that top ten list, yes, 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:45.680 seven of those titles are Netflix. But when we look 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:49.080 at the other three with them that top ten land 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:56.440 Man on Paramount Pair plus Taylor Sheridan, Yes, you love this. 0:22:58.080 --> 0:22:59.440 I can't believe it's out in the world. 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:04.679 But yeah, but even among the Taylor Sheridan shows, it 0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:07.680 wasn't among the most talked about, which is interesting because 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:10.320 the interest that that chart, there's a gap between like 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:13.199 the cool factor and buzz factor. And of course we 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:15.160 are in a bubble, we are in the creative community bus. 0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:17.919 But I didn't hear so many people talking about it, 0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:22.080 but obviously America and Canada. Yeah, there's kind of. 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:24.280 Like the People's Choice Awards. You know, it doesn't line 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:26.800