1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercam. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of two and soon to be three 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,159 Speaker 1: and a practicing physician. We are two working parents who 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: This is Laura. We're on episode ten, which is working 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: moms can do Happy hours networking for the professional woman. 12 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: Favorite topic of both of ours. I like my happy hours. 13 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: Sarah would like her happy hours if she weren't currently pregnant, 14 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: but that always makes happy hours a bit less happy. Yes, 15 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: it's a drag. Another thing that can be a drag 16 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: is rainy weekends, which we had an unfortunate number of recently. 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: Sarah especially had a couple of rainy weekends with end 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: of Miami's like this right there, you get a rainy 19 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: Sea's very seasonal. God, we have the most beautiful like 20 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: December and January but right now we're in this sort 21 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: of there are some nice days, but then a lot 22 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: of days where it's just tropics. Tropics are here, yeah, 23 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: and so what do you do when it's rainy on 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: the weekends. You've got two kids cooped up in the 25 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: house and yeah, So lately our big thing has been 26 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: in the morning, letting the kids talk about a schedule. 27 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: And when I say the kids, it's really mostly my 28 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: five year old. The three year old will like interject 29 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: his own commentary, but mostly it's my older one. And 30 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: she's even been drawing out like a little comic book 31 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: representation since her word vocabulary is very limited at this point. 32 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: So last weekend it was terrible out and she drew 33 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: like a little picture of them playing with magnetows, and 34 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: then a little picture of going to the museum, and 35 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: then a little picture of her late eight and it 36 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: was really really cute. So we've been doing that. Cooking 37 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: and baking projects are a really big hit for our 38 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: kids on rainy days, so I usually try to have 39 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: sort of the basic stuff to you know, because all 40 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: you really need is like flour and some chocolate chips 41 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: and eggs and sugar, and you can make a lot 42 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: of variations of stuff. We also tend to I try. 43 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: I'm not we've actually gone through the stash now, but 44 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: when they have the birthday parties and they get eight 45 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: million different things, I kind of hide like a little 46 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 1: subset of them, and then I call them rainy Day toys, 47 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: so that if it's reue, we're getting really desk. But 48 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 1: I'll say, okay, let's break into our Rainy Day toys 49 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: and then we can find like a science kid or 50 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: some craft set or something they forgot they had. But 51 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: unfortunately the birthdays were like April and February, so we're 52 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: at there running low. Exactly what about you, guys, you 53 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: have even more kids to everything. We have to get 54 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: out of the house. I mean, the kids would love 55 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: to just sit in the house and watch videos all day, 56 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: but they can't just do this quietly. Like they start 57 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: hitting each other, and it's really I mean, it's like 58 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: we've got to get out of this house, like even 59 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: just you know, for one activity or something like that. 60 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: We are members of like every museum in Philadelphia, and 61 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 1: apparently it's just about, you know, trying to be supportive 62 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: of local institutions, but it tends to be a pretty 63 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: good deal too, and it also reduces the like perceived 64 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: cost of any visit, like, oh, but we have a 65 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: membership there, so we can just go. I mean, so 66 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: we have a great kids museum called the Police Touch Museum, 67 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: which is probably less great for the ten year old 68 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: at this point, but he can still go. He still 69 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: doesn't mind playing like with his siblings, and you know, 70 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: making a pretend restaurant meal and grocery shopping and this 71 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: cute little pretend grocery store they have, and so we 72 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: do that. We've got the Franklin Institute. We've been to 73 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: a lot, is our gosh, I have so many fond 74 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: memories of that place as a kid. Yeah, as you 75 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: grew up around here. Yeah, no, that Giant Heart is 76 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: still here. I mean, how many times did you walk 77 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: through the Giant Heart? Money? I think I slept in 78 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: the heart one heart girl Scouts sleepover for real. There 79 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: is probably no person in the Philadelphia area who has 80 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: not walked through that Heart at some point, through some 81 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: whatever it is they have, because they have variously community 82 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: days too. But yeah, you've gone through there at a 83 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: number of times as a kid. So there's that. There's 84 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: like a dinosaur museum here at American Museum of Natural 85 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: History whatever it's called, not the American that's in New York, 86 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: but although we're members of the one in New York too. 87 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: My husband took a big kids in New York last week. 88 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: I think they may have gone there, you know. But 89 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: there's the thing about these museums, is it just if 90 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: you ask for a membership for like a kid's birthday 91 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: or something from a grandparent, because grandparents will be like, oh, 92 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: what does your kid want from a birthday? And I'm 93 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: assuming if listeners are somewhat like us. The toy front 94 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: is not. Let's just say that the existence of toys 95 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: is already far beyond what they will ever be able 96 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: to play with in their lives, and there's just too 97 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: many toys already, and so we're trying to get a 98 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: few more experiential type gifts. That's a great idea membership, 99 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: So ask for museum membership or zoo membership, and that 100 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: the zoo doesn't help with the rainy day so much. 101 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: I mean, you have to just do the indoor exhibits, 102 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: but that can be a great way to have that work. 103 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: And yeah, obviously playdates if your kids are old enough. 104 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: The playdates are a good way for the kids to 105 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: entertain each other, and then you don't have to entertain them. 106 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: It's an amazing how you add one more kid and 107 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: everything changes. Like that's partly what I love play dates. 108 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: I don't even care if it's it's Cameron's friend, my 109 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: three year olds friend, or my five year olds friend. Somehow, 110 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: kids who are like lying around wandering about being bored 111 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: all of a sudden fin all kinds of things to 112 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: do when you add them more, well, it's the same 113 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: thing like you know, adding another couple of you and 114 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: your spouse go out for dinner, it's like all of 115 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 1: a sudden, I mean, you've told each other your stories 116 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: a million times already, new people to tell your stories too, 117 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: and they don't know to be bored yet. So it's 118 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: very exciting from that perspective. So yeah, that's what we've 119 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: been doing. So coming to our main segment here, we're 120 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,799 Speaker 1: talking today about networking and what this was somewhat inspired 121 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: by is we hear from a lot of working mothers 122 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: that they can't do happy hour right like, so you know, 123 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: the people at their office go out for drinks or whatever, 124 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: and there's this whole soft side of work that involves 125 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: like nurturing relationships with other people. And the assumption is like, well, 126 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: once you're a parent, you can't do that. You don't 127 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: have time for that. And in fact, I have had 128 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: people tell me that they consider themselves incredibly good at 129 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: time management because they just barricade themselves in their offices 130 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: the entire day, don't talk to any of their colleagues 131 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: and just get the work done. I'm like, hmm, interesting 132 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: that because like a if you ever want to get 133 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: into management, like, it's not just about getting your work done, 134 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: it's about having other people like you and trust you 135 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: so they want to do their best work for you. 136 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: And the only way that happens is if people get 137 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: to know you. Often over this sort of relaxed situation, 138 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: and even if you only want to be in an 139 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: individual contributor role for the rest of your life, like 140 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: other people have information that's helpful. You know, they know 141 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: that that assignment from the other department is never really 142 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: going to happen because they can see the writing on 143 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: the wall that's happened last year and they want to 144 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: warn you off it, or you know, they just this 145 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: is how the information in companies has passed just through 146 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: these informal channels, and cutting yourself off from it is 147 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: just an incredibly short sighted thing. So I agree, and 148 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: I think that even in a field, I mean people 149 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: might think, well, medicine, you're just like seeing your patients, 150 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: you're just cranking out widgets doing your job, that it's 151 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: still incredibly important because number one, you learn things from 152 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: other people all the time. Number Two, just what Laura said, 153 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: if you have any aspirations toward any sort of leadership 154 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: or even just any sort of specialized like maybe you 155 00:07:58,200 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: want to run a certain clinic, you have to kind 156 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: of get to know the right people, and that has 157 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: to unfold a little bit organically. You can't just close 158 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: to yourself away and not build connections with people and 159 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: then expect them to kind of want to do things 160 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: for you. So I think this is important even for 161 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: our scientists, our engineers and people who feel like well, 162 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm just like think it's very straightforward knowledge worker. I 163 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: don't think you can discount this sort of softer side. Yeah, 164 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: not at all. I mean I would say even with 165 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: with scientists and research, it comes into play and sort 166 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: of obviously like who are you doing your research papers with, right, 167 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: who are your co authors? Yes, that's true. I'd say 168 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: in the science world they are actually expert like that. 169 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: They most people know that sort of part of the deal, right, 170 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: that you're having these weekly meetings and journal clubs and collaborations, 171 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: and it's very The most successful institutions are very collegial institutions, 172 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: and they usually brag about that too, So you're right, 173 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: the scientists actually kind of got it going on there. Yeah, 174 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: So how do you say, I mean, you do lunch 175 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: sometimes with colleagues, right, that's one way to Oh yeah, 176 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: I do lunch with almost every day, and that's you know, 177 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: that's part colleagues and staff. So I want to work with. 178 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: I want to have lunch with people who are above 179 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: me and people who are you know, on my career level, 180 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:16,239 Speaker 1: and then you know, people who to some extent I supervise, 181 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: and I think that all of those have have their 182 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: own value. Plus you kind of got to eat anyway, 183 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: So it's a great way to kind of know what's 184 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: going on and in all sorts of realms. And I 185 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: really do think that all three levels are very important. Yeah, 186 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: So trying not to eat alone every day is a 187 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: key one. I mean, obviously, if you are the sort 188 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: of person who has to interact with people all day 189 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 1: and you're pretty introverted, maybe your lunch break is when 190 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: you do sort of recharge, but then you're interacting with 191 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: people all day. That's sort of a different matter. But 192 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: you know, also just not not having your default answer 193 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: always be no, because then people stop asking. So like 194 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: you don't have to go to happy hour every night. 195 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: Like if you're in an office where most people are 196 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: young or whatever and they go out with each other frequently, 197 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: I bet people don't go every night, by the way, 198 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: Like nobody goes every night. That would just be ridiculous, 199 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: Like no one wants to hang out with their colleagues 200 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: that much. But if you sometimes go, then then people 201 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: get to know you and then they still ask. But 202 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: if they know like, oh, she's the you know, one 203 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: who's racing out every single day, like, then they don't 204 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: ask because what's the point. And you know, I know 205 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: people have like daycare pickups and whatever, but it's good 206 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: to just sort of arrange a backup to that maybe 207 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: once or twice a week, so you do have options 208 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: either to work a little later or to go to 209 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: the gym, or meet a friend or whatever, but then 210 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: also maybe to do some some professional networking as well, 211 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: really working on those relationships, because you know, one or 212 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: two nights a week, like there's seven nights in a week, 213 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: and so if you're out with your colleagues one night 214 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: a week and there's six other nights, like, don't don't 215 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: just look at that one night and be like, I'm 216 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: not seeing my kids. You're seeing your kids every other night. Like, 217 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 1: let's just you know, it's okay to have a sort 218 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: of different split with that. It's not have to be 219 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: an all or nothing kind of a thing. And if 220 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: you do, you know, the nice thing is if you 221 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: do make a point to say yes. Sometimes I think people, 222 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: you know, when they know that you do have kids, 223 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 1: they really kind of respond nicely to that. My team, 224 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: we don't do things all that often, but when they do, 225 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: I try to go because it isn't that often, and 226 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: I feel like I get almost like extra credit because 227 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: they know I have a babysitter. And it's not only 228 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: just sort of important for building those relationships, but usually 229 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: it's sexually an enjoyable little diversion too, So don't underestimate 230 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: that it can be fun yeah, and then we also 231 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: have to meet people who don't immediately work with us too, 232 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 1: I mean, because you know, a I mean, nobody's job 233 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: is permanent these days anyway, so we never know when 234 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: we'll be looking elsewhere or might want to look elsewhere. 235 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, we want to meet people who aren't working 236 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: with us immediately too, And so one of the ways 237 00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: you do that, I mean you go to conferences, right, 238 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: That's that's something you do. Yes, I love conferences. I'm 239 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: actually I think I mentioned in our hurricane podcast that 240 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to make it to a conference. That was 241 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: because it's our big pediatric anddo chronology conference and I 242 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: had been looking forward to it all year. And actually, 243 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: the sad punchline is that I did not end up 244 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: going to said conference because we got back at three 245 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: in the morning and my flight was canceled by the 246 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: airlines the next day because of all the evacuees coming back, 247 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: So I missed it. But I mean that makes me 248 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: just want to go more like conferences. Number one, that's 249 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: when for me, I get to do a lot of 250 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: the outside networking, because it is a little hard to 251 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: physically connect with other physicians when i'm you know, physically 252 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: with them all day, you know, from outside institutions. But 253 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: number two, I find that I really just get to 254 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: focus on work and you know, looking at the most 255 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: recent research and thinking of like ideas for my own 256 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: research and all kinds of things, just because I'm not 257 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: dealing with all of the the home and sort of 258 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: life activities that I normally have. So I see them 259 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: as very therapeutic, a lot of fun. And I know 260 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: some people like to bring their families to conferences, and 261 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: that may be something we consider in the future, but 262 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: currently I really relish them as a time to dive 263 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: in and use partly as me time and partly is 264 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: just like work immersion time. And that's for me. That's 265 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: not like work alone in my in my hotel room 266 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 1: or something. I'm like working with others, learning from others, 267 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: et cetera. So I am very pro conference and I'm 268 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: very pro doing it on your own if that's what 269 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: works for you. Yeah, I love conferences, although I I mean, 270 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: I speak at a lot of conferences. That's kind of 271 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: like my job, so I like a professional conference attender. 272 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: It's kind of fun. I get to see different industries 273 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: do different things or funded at different levels. I've learned 274 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: some fields are a lot better than others, not in 275 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: terms of how fancy their conferences are, but yeah, no, 276 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: it's it's just a very convenient way to meet a 277 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: lot of people and they're all there, like all the 278 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: people that you have seen their names over the year 279 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: and various things you get to meet in person or 280 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: the fun thing for me is speaking at a lot 281 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: of different places as I get to meet people in 282 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: different fields, and that's kind of fun for me too. 283 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think you know, bringing your families is 284 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: only going to work if you definitely know your spouse 285 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: is going to be able to take like one hundred 286 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: percent and it's not going to care if you go 287 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: to a happy hour or something like that, because that's 288 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: the whole point, right you want to have these these 289 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: interactions with it. So the thing with me though, I mean, 290 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: so when I'm not traveling, I work out in my 291 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: home office. There's not a whole lot of like networking 292 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: opportunities there in my home office. But especially if you 293 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: just think about networking as you're trying to build up 294 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: relationships with people who want to see you succeed and 295 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: who you want to see succeed as well, then it 296 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: opens up all sorts of possibilities. I mean, you know, 297 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: your friends are in a way your network. You know, 298 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: people you know from your past or your network, your 299 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: spouse's colleagues or your network, and you can also build 300 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: this up over time through just like electronic means. There's 301 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: a book that's out I think this month or next. 302 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: It's by Molly Beck. That's called reach Out, and it's 303 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: a really simple concept. She started just reaching out to 304 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: one person daily, like five times a week, sending them 305 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: an email basically either you know, thanking a person for something, 306 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: or introducing her herself because somebody else said she should 307 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: get in touch with them, or that she met somebody 308 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: somewhere and she's falling out to say hello, or you know, 309 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: as random ones too. I mean, so she reached out 310 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: to me one day in twenty thirteen to thank me 311 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: for retweeting a link she had posted or something like that. 312 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: But she's just been so disciplined about doing this, sending 313 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: one a day for years that she has this huge network. Obviously, 314 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: not everyone responds, but even if like twenty five percent 315 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: of the people respond and of those maybe half become 316 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: people you keep in touch with more frequently. Like, doing 317 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: it every day means you're adding, you know, two dozen 318 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: solid connections to your network every year, and that's that's 319 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: pretty good. I mean, I think it's just like anything 320 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: else that can be a discipline. I love incremental progress. 321 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: Incremental because we always underestimate what can happen over time 322 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: with a small step every day. So I think that's 323 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: really cool. Yeah, and it's also helpful for people who 324 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: maybe aren't as into the cocktail party thing or you know, 325 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: are more introverted because you're still building your network. You're 326 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: still doing solid stuff to advance your network, and yeah, 327 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: you still do need to meet people in person, but 328 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: this can be a great supplement to it as well. 329 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're kind of an extroverted person. You 330 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: like the events. I do like the events, and I 331 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: although I say I would say like in the field 332 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: that I'm in a daily kind of a thing, I 333 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: don't know that they would. I can't picture doing that, 334 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: And you're right, I kind of rather do in person things. 335 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: So for me, I just try to like talk or meet. 336 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: It could be on the phone, it could be in 337 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: person with somebody every week. That's just not my media 338 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: colleagues about something interesting. And if that is sending an email, fine, 339 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: if it's a phone call during my commute, I love 340 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: those that works as well. And you know, I've actually 341 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: met a lot of people who I wouldn't have expected 342 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: to have like sort of career implications through the blog 343 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: and through social media as well. Now, yeah, no, that's 344 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: a that's a cool extras. I've certainly somebody I you know, 345 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: I used to talk about how horrible I was at 346 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: networking or whatever, and somebody pointed out at one point that, like, 347 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: I've been writing articles for what fifteen years and probably 348 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: one a week at least for fifteen years, and that 349 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: involves calling people up and talking to them about their 350 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: lives and what they're interested in. And many of these 351 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: people have been stayed in my life and stayed with 352 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: me over the years, and then they do things with me. Now, 353 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: I mean some of these people become sources or they 354 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: have their own like podcasts or media empires or whatever 355 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: they want to they want to mention me and their stuff. 356 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: And so it was networking. It just didn't seem like 357 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 1: it to me because I had this image of like, well, 358 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: you got to be at the cock party conference, say 359 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: you know that's that's the networking. It wasn't just you know, 360 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: people that I met and found interesting and found me 361 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: interesting and we continue to look out for each other. 362 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: But it can be that too. I think that if 363 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: you are sort of nervous about the in person meetings, 364 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: what were you saying that go early that I think 365 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: I got this Actually I think this was from Gretchen Rubin, 366 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: either her podcast or her one of her books. But 367 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: I totally agree with this, and I've I've tried to 368 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: get my it's harder if you're trying to go with 369 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: somebody else. So my husband's not not one of those 370 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: early kind of people, although he is an introvert, and 371 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: I have sort of pointed out if you go to 372 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: a party and you're there first, then it's actually a 373 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: lot less intimidating compared to if you're walking into everyone 374 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: having a grand old time and seeing like they know 375 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: each other already. So I think for introverts, even though 376 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: it might not be like they may want to put 377 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: off going and kind of show up late and hide 378 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: in a corner, they're better off going early because then 379 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: they can sort of start having an intimate conversation with 380 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: whoever shows up at the beginning, and they already feel 381 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,239 Speaker 1: like they're part of the event as it unfolds around them, 382 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: rather than walking into this bustling situation, which could be intimidating. 383 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: I think also lowering your expectations for any given event 384 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: can be helpful, because you know, most of the time 385 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: you're not going to meet, like, you know, the perfectly 386 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: great person that you're going to have a wonderful, close 387 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: professional relationship with forever. I mean, just like you know 388 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: any given event, you wouldn't meet your spouse either. You know, 389 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: it's it's all just kind of not going to happen 390 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: like that. But if you even just go in with 391 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: like I would like to at the end of the 392 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: night meet two people I'd like to follow up with, 393 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: or I mean, heck, it could just be like I 394 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: want to hit a couple of great book recommendations out 395 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: of this, and that's something you can then talk about 396 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: in a kind of relaxed way. I mean, because everyone 397 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,719 Speaker 1: could talk about a book recommendation or a restaurant recommendation 398 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 1: or TV show recommendation or something, and it gives you 399 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: something to talk about and you know you'll get something useful, 400 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: and then it's a lot less pressure than trying to, 401 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,479 Speaker 1: you know, sell yourself or something. And interestingly, even if 402 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: you feel like an event has been a fail, like 403 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: oh you learn some you know, important tidbook, you never 404 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: know because somebody may have sort of met you that 405 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: you didn't even register that that later ends up turning 406 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: out to be really fruitful for both of you. So 407 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: you kind of can't judge the outcome of event ever 408 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: really because you just don't know how things are gonna unfold. Yeah, 409 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: if you don't know, you don't know. And then they 410 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: never cumulative too, I mean they like you said I would, 411 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: just they add up over time and next thing you know, 412 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: you're like, hey, I have a network. You got to 413 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: try and keep in touch with people too. I mean 414 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: that's that's key, because people will forget that you exist 415 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: if you don't do that. That's why I send annoying 416 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 1: emails out to my newsletter list to remind people that 417 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: I exist. So we're going to our love of the week. Now, 418 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: what is your love of the week? Sarah, Well, I'm 419 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: at this point in pregnancy where I'm like this happens 420 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: every time, where I'm fantasizing about shopping for clothing when 421 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: I'm not pregnant, because I'm so bored with what I'm 422 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: wearing all the time. My love of the week right 423 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: now is lounge way. And actually this is a little 424 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: bit of an aspirational level of the week because I 425 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: don't feel like I have the perfect collection of loungewear. 426 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: But one of my greatest pleasures is coming home from 427 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: work and then putting on something that's like not frumpy 428 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: but really comfortable and just sort of spending the rest 429 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: of the night in that outfit. And so I'm just 430 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: going to give a big shout out to loungdear, which 431 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: I feel like is having a moment right now and 432 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: maybe maybe it's a forever moment, I don't know, and 433 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: to say that, after I don't have a giant bump 434 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: to cover up, I am going to devote myself to 435 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: making a really comfortable and nice set of lounge war 436 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 1: outfits to hang out with at night because life is short, 437 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: like sure as well be in comfort to Jama sorry exactly. 438 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: So my love of the week is my my fall 439 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: fund list. So if we have listeners who've also looked 440 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: at my blog at Laura vandercam dot com, I post 441 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: a couple of what I call like the seasonal fund lists. 442 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: I had a summer fund list. This year, I did 443 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: my Fall fund list for the first time. I often 444 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: do a holiday fund list around Christmas. It's just the 445 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: things I want to do during that particular season that 446 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: will make me feel like I really experienced the season. 447 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: So with summer, for instance, we had a couple of 448 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: you know, beach trips. I wanted to do a certain restaurant. 449 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: I wanted to eat lobster at and Cape May and 450 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: you know, just things like that that I knew I 451 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: wanted to do that would make me feel like I 452 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: had a good summer. And so I got through that 453 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: list that was great. And so I decided to do 454 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: a fall list because I think fall is a great 455 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: season too, especially up here in the Northeast. We get 456 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: a lot of that. We get the changing leaves, the 457 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: crisp weather. It's sort of like the spookiness of Halloween. 458 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: So I've got a couple of things I'm trying to do. 459 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: I'm actually taking the kids once we get done recording this, 460 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: I'm taking my big kids on a hike up in 461 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: the mountains around here to see if we can get 462 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 1: some of the fall color there. I think it'll be 463 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: a bit more change there than it is here. It's 464 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: starting to change here, but we'll have more of that. 465 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: So that's on the list. I'm making sure to do that. 466 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,239 Speaker 1: When they've got some days off from school. We're going 467 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: to go to a professional football game here. My eight 468 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 1: year old and I will be doing that together. I 469 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: want to go on a hay ride, So that's now 470 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: on the calendar. So this is apple picking, yet I 471 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: feel like everyone does curiously enough. I put it on 472 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: my fall list, but it's actually more of a summer activity. 473 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: It turns out that the apple harvest season is more 474 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: August September than it is like October. I mean, people 475 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: think of it as a fall activity, but it's a 476 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: really really early fall activity. So we would always be 477 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: past peak for like the species, the varieties of apples 478 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: that I like, And so this year I looked at 479 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 1: it and I was like, oh, the galas and the 480 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: you know, honeycresps actually peak in late August, so we 481 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: went in late August. So yes, it was on my 482 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: fall fu list, but we did it in late August, 483 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: so that's that's fine. So but I love doing this 484 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: It makes me feel like I'm taking advantage of these seasons. 485 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: It gives me ideas of things to do on weekends. 486 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 1: If you know we're planning the weekends, like what should 487 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: we do? Well? If I know that we want to 488 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,959 Speaker 1: do the hay Ride at some point, then that gets 489 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: a privileged spot on a weekend as opposed to be 490 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: I don't know, do you want to do well? What 491 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 1: do you want to do? And so I think just 492 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: that list making in general helps helps with that. I agree. 493 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: I love your list. I remember the like reading about 494 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 1: your list of one hundred dreams way back in the 495 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: day and making one, and I the lists are fun. 496 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: They like add a little bit of a quest aspect 497 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: to life, which I've never really been disappointed by. So ye, 498 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: yes for fall, fun lists fall here, but okay, it 499 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: kind of helps us have an actual fall. You'd be like, yes, 500 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 1: my rainy tropic season fun list just doesn't have really 501 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: gross I'm waiting for December. So our listener question this 502 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: week one question we got a lot of after people 503 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: would listen to our first few episodes and said, wow, 504 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: it sounds like your kids do a lot of activities. 505 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: Do you think that's the case? And how do you 506 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: decide what's too much? Decide what's too much or too little. Okay, 507 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: so my first answer to that is, yes, I think 508 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: it's the case. My kids do a lot of activities. 509 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to admit that right off the bat. I'm 510 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: not saying that's right or wrong. But they're three and 511 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 1: they're five, and they're in like a lot of different things. 512 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: For us, it has to do with availability and convenience 513 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: and their interest. And we happen to live in an 514 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: area where it's really not like we're not having to 515 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: trek miles to do this, Like it's not like we're 516 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: bending over backwards. Many of them are offered at the 517 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: school after school, so it's not even they literally just 518 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: stay an extra hour. Now I have found out that 519 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: our public school kindergarten curriculum no longer includes art or 520 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: music because they're too busy doing spelling words in math 521 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: and whatever. So, because it's really important to me that, 522 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: you know, they do get exposed to those things, and 523 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: I am at work for a lot of the day, 524 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: I'm really happy to put them in like after school 525 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: art class and drama class and other things so that 526 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: so that they they get them So the other thing, 527 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: aside from the convenience, is that thus far, they seem 528 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: to really enjoy them, Like when I say, oh, it's 529 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: gymnastics day, like, I'm not really getting pushed back. And 530 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: if I start to notice that they're getting more tired 531 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: or that homework has become more of a burden, I mean, 532 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: right now it's like one it takes like ten minutes 533 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: total because it's just kindergarten, then maybe we'll change things. 534 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: But right now it's like a fun way for them 535 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: to spend their time. And I am for open time too, 536 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: but I think they're still able to get some of 537 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: that with you know, one to usually one activity each 538 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: day too, on like one day a week. So I 539 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: guess I think it works for us. What about you guys. 540 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: That's totally about what works for your family. The issue 541 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: of having four kids is that there's going to be 542 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: a lot of activities. I mean, even if each kid 543 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 1: was only in one, like you'd have four, which would 544 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: be if one kid had four activities, you might think 545 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: that kid was over scheduled, but it's it's the same 546 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: volume of stuff. It's just when you have more kids, 547 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: it adds up quicker, you know, I try to only 548 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 1: do stuff that the kids are interested in that we 549 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: probably have a bias towards doing sports physical activities that 550 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: are going to be helpful to them. I think that 551 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: we have them swimming. The older two boys, and the 552 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: ten year old and the five year old are doing karate. 553 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: They chose that they wanted to do the karate, and 554 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: so I support their interests. We asked them about sort 555 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: of I want them to do music, but I'm willing 556 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: to listen to their ideas on what instrument. And so 557 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: the ten year old had been taking piano, but then 558 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: his school he learned viola. Last year they had group 559 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: music lessons and he learned the viola. He played in 560 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: his little fourth grade orchestra last year and enjoyed it, 561 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 1: and he said, I would actually prefer to focus on 562 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: the viola versus piano, and so I said, okay, well 563 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: that's fine. I would be willing to support that. That's 564 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: your choice. I would think if kids choose stuff, they 565 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: are far more into it than if they are not. 566 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: So that was that was one thing that we took on. 567 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: My daughter loves to do gymnastics and dance, so I'm 568 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: trying to support that and you look for a place 569 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: that was going to do real gymnastics, so we had 570 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: to find a gym that would would do that. You know, 571 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: I think it's not a bad thing to have activities. 572 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: You do have to be small art about it in 573 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: the sense of we try not to have each kid 574 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: have more than one thing a day. There's only one 575 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: day that we have. You know, the seven year old 576 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: and the five year old have swim and gymnastics, and 577 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: then they both have a piano lesson the night, but 578 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: the piano comes to them to let the teacher comes 579 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: to them, So I feel like it's not a huge deal. 580 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: It's not like they have to go somewhere. And I 581 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 1: also just sort of remember from school grow I liked 582 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: activities too, and I've thought it was often one of 583 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: the more challenging things I did, and sometimes school itself 584 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: is not one hundred percent challenging. We're getting better with 585 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: that with you know, the ten year old is starting 586 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: to be getting more challenging math and reading and things 587 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: like that. But you know, you don't always necessarily have 588 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: as much challenge as you might like. But activities can 589 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: be more oriented toward your exact level, and that can 590 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: be a really cool thing for that. That's so interesting 591 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: because you know what, when I look back to elementary school, 592 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: I don't remember really anything like what we did in 593 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: this class. But I remember, like in second grade, taking 594 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: cross stitch and girls Scouts. I do like playing field hockey, 595 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: like I remember my active these more than I remember 596 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: my actual schooling. So that's actually very interesting. In many says, 597 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: it's a richer way to learn. It's that you have 598 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: chosen to be interested in something. You're doing it because 599 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: you want to, not because you have to. You are 600 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: setting goals and meeting them. I mean a lot of 601 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: athletics are about that, like I'm trying to be a 602 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: little bit faster swimming, or I'm trying to get my 603 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: purple belt in karate, right like, So it's about setting 604 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: goals and working toward them bit by bit and seeing 605 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: that practice makes you better. And ideally all of education 606 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: would be like that too, but you know, in any 607 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: sort of group schooling situation, it's not one hundred percent 608 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: going to be like that. So I'm a fan of activities. 609 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: It's always fun to complain about kids being overscheduled, but 610 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: there's been some interesting research that even kids who do 611 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: quite a bit of activities. It tends to be helpful 612 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: instead of harmful. There's very few kids who are in 613 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: fact overscheduled, and in fact, the average kid could probably 614 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: do more stuff. I think there are our whole communities 615 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: where in fact things like art and music have been 616 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: cut in the schools where kids might benefit from having 617 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: more of that. So I think the overschedule problem is 618 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: more isolated than we might think it is. So we 619 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: try to keep one open day to our activity schedule 620 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: for the fall. We have Wednesday open, we have Sunday open, 621 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: and so those are days that either if we miss 622 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: something early in the week it can follow. We can 623 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: have those completely off, and so I think that's been 624 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: helpful too. We also Sunday completely off. I like the 625 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: one day just nothing nothing. Well, this has been best 626 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: of both worlds. Episode ten. We were talking about networking 627 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: for busy professional women and lots of other things too. 628 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: So if please tune in next week when we'll be 629 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: back with more about how we make work in life 630 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah 631 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore shoebox 632 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura 633 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both 634 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on 635 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: making work and life work together.