WEBVTT - Permission to Change Your Mind feat. John Osborne 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:03.440 We're looking at something that could profoundly change people's lives. 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:06.000 It has profoundly changed my life, my wife's life, my 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:08.119 dad's wife, all of my friends Aronny that have done 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:10.119 it well, I have seen it well. 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:14.440 Eyes Lava for Good and Stand Together in Music Present 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:18.040 The War on Drugs Podcast, Season two. This season, we're 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.960 diving deeper into the real stories behind the War on Drugs, 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:23.959 It's impact, it's failures, and the people offering a better 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:28.960 path forwards today on the show. Founder guitarists and background 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:33.200 vocalist for The Amazing Brothers Osborne, co author of Billboard 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.360 Hot Country Hits, Stay a Little Longer, It Ate My Fault, 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:37.120 Shoot Me. 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:38.519 Straight, and All Night. 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.519 Winner of six awards from the Academy of Country Music, 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.360 five awards from the Country Music Association and twelve nominations, 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.440 and one award from the Grammy Awards for Best Country 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:51.920 Duo Group Performance in twenty twenty two, and a passionate 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:58.160 advocate for psychedelic assisted mental health therapy. Mister John Osborne, 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:01.880 all right, well, I'm welcome back Season two The War 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:02.760 on Drugs Podcast. 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:05.959 Greg Glove really excited about our interview. 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.800 Man. We do went down to Nashville, which has been 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:12.800 called the white Atlanta, and I can't. 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:14.679 Say that it's not I see that. 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.840 Yeah, it is a very music focus. They've got their 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:20.880 own little party seede. I enjoyed myself. It's good. I've 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:25.320 never seen that many white cowboy boots in my life 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:27.680 and I enjoyed it. 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:29.400 Yeah, I love country music. 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:34.160 And to meet John Osborne, like you're from Yeah, he's 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.880 from Deal Hunt Deal, Maryland, but Liz in Nashville. 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:41.160 Now. It was in his studio, like on the east 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:42.280 side of town, and. 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:45.920 Nice studio, man, really nice studio and like just his 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:46.959 records and stuff. 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:48.640 It was just like a cool experience to be in there. 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:53.560 And yeah, but we really got into some really deep stuff. 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.600 And I can't thank him enough for being so open 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.720 about his own struggles with, you know, mental health, his 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.920 speriences with using psychedelics, talking to friends about him. I 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:07.200 think it was just a great conversation about what we're 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.440 talking about here where it's not the right path for everyone, 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.560 but we need to allow for these things to be 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:19.239 discussed openly, honestly and allow for people to potentially gain 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.320 the benefits of this if it makes sense for them. 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:23.360 And I think just the way John went about it 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:25.000 and talked to us about it, It was just a really 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:25.680 cool conversation. 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:29.040 Yeah, And I think he was very real just about 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:30.480 what worked for him. 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:31.040 Yeah. 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.840 I think if you're kind of a skeptic about a 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:36.480 lot of this stuff, I think this is like a 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:40.040 really good conversation because it came from someone that was 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.519 a skeptic as well, and just kind of those discussions 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.920 and what his experiences were in very detailed. 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.079 And I don't want. 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:49.240 To waste any more time on this. 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.079 Good to it, Yeah, good to it now further ado 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.440 here John Osborne. 0:02:56.600 --> 0:03:01.359 Hey, that me and Greg, our guests and sponsors may 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:04.280 sound smart, we may even make some good points, but 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:06.240 at the end of the day, we're not medical professional. 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:07.239 Okay. 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.720 Please don't get your medical advice from a podcast. Anything 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:14.680 we say on here does not constitute official medical advice. Relax, 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:19.559 consult your doctor before you start any new treatment plans. 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:20.280 Got it. 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:23.720 We are here in Nashville, Tennessee. 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:24.840 Nashville. 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:25.840 We were with. 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.079 John Osborne right now, one half of the Brothers Osbourne. 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:32.440 We are in his recording studio right outside of downtown 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:33.920 on the east side of Nashville. 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:38.320 Come cabin. Yeah, Grammy Winners CMA. 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:44.320 Yeah, all the all the stuff, yes, as yeah. 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:44.800 And the best part about him he grew up about 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.160 thirty minutes away from me. We were talking before, so 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.119 we're both Maryland boys. Yeah that was hunt. 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:50.400 Yeah, I see the black eyed Susan. 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:51.240 Uh that's right. 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:51.560 Yeah. 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:56.920 Yeah, everyone asks some of their daisies. Yeah, yeah, I know, 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:58.120 never forget. 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:01.720 Yeah, never forget never never spent some times in their preakness. 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:03.960 Yeah, couple reading us all the stuff. I mean, what 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.520 peop don't understand about Maryland. It's actually a big equine state, 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:10.200 you know. So I like being in country music. Everyone goes, 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:12.280 how did you get into that being from Maryland. I'm like, 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:12.920 I don't know. 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:13.320 I didn't know. 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:14.880 I wasn't supposed to get into it. I mean, it's 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:16.960 just it's mostly farms. I mean, how you go an 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.560 hour out of any town and it's just farms, you know. 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.440 But people like to draw lines. I have to raise 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.240 something the horse. 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:25.560 Yeah. 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.640 But yeah, thank you for joining us podcast man, and 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:29.640 I'm really excited about this. 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:31.359 The same fan for a while. 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:33.280 Before we kind of get into a lot of the 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.359 stuff we're going to talk about, let's talk about you, 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:37.920 so born you know in Deal. It's a small town's 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:41.239 on the water, over the water water. 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.640 Yeah, we were, we were reliving our Maryland accents earlier. 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:46.640 So no, I love. 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:48.880 Learning about it because I didn't know that. Like, yeah, 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:49.680 I love for. 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:50.440 A couple of days of it. 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:56.839 You'll be like you please stuff. But it's a small 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.320 town called Deal, Maryland. It's on the it's on the 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.719 chests beat Bed about forty five to fifty minutes east 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:04.720 of d C. Where you live now, fifty minutes south 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.200 of Baltimore. And yeah, man, it's just kind of a 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:11.680 very humble town public school, played in bands, you know, 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.000 just trying to pursue the American dream, you know, just 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:16.599 kind of a small kid from nowhere. 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:16.920 Yeah. 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.240 And so you've been playing music your kind of whole 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:21.880 life for your family? Were they musical or how that all? 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:22.440 Yeah? 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:23.080 Yeah, man. 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:27.080 So my both of my parents would sing and write songs. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.279 The reason why I ended up in Nashville is because 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.760 they would come down to Nashville a lot as songwriters 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.520 when we were kids. And it's a hard industry to 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:36.760 get into. I mean, you know, you know, it is 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.000 like being in comedy. It's like you have to commit 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.400 so much of yourself to do it that they, you know, 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:45.000 had kids that were at home and jobs and mortgage 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.520 and all those things and just didn't quite work out 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.080 for them. However, it did pave the way for my 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.800 brother and I to feel like, okay, this seems possible 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.720 because they they kind of started the trend for us. 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.000 But it's something that we've always done, you know, always 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.520 played music. Our parents would sit around the kitchen table 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.040 and write and sing songs, and it was a very 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:07.640 normal thing for us. We didn't realize it was abnormal 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.240 until we left the nest. 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:13.680 Right right. Were your parents weary about you going into 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:15.240 it knowing how hard it was, or were they the 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.599 ones like, oh, okay, we're going to tell you everything 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:19.640 we know and we want to see y'all. 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.480 That the second one, for sure, I'm grateful for that. Again, 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:25.960 it's like you only know what you know. But our 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:29.080 parents they were so so supportive. You know, they weren't 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.640 necessarily helicopter parents by any stretch, but they were very, 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:34.120 very supportive. And also they were kind of able to 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.560 live vicariously through us. But we never felt pressured to 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.400 do it. We come from, you know, quite a conservative area, 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.840 but we were like this little like kind of progressive 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.960 island within our town. Our parents would not care if 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.039 we wanted to be mimes or we wanted to be 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:54.680 a lawyer or a guitar player. They just do it 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.200 and we'll support you one hundred percent. I'm very, very 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.919 grateful for that. You know, I know a lot of 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.760 people and our line of work that their parents weren't 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:04.520 very supportive. 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:05.680 I could imagine that was tough. 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:07.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:07.800 My parents were. 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.360 My dad's a secret service age, Like he's a He 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.200 still terrifies me to this, No I do. 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:13.680 He's a big dude. 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:13.920 Yeah. 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:15.360 So like if I was like, yeah, I'm gonna head 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.040 out and do a music career, he'd been like you. 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.280 Yeah, I mean, you're out of your mind, And he 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.400 would be right, because you are. In order to pursue 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:25.400 something like that, you got to be a little crazy 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:28.640 to you know. And I mean, I don't know, to 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.200 be honest with you, I don't know. Thirty years later, 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.440 I still don't know why I do it, Like I 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:37.800 just am compelled. But you know, for everyone that succeeds 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.800 one hundred fail and the successfully is so small, I 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.679 understand why a parent would be weary of that because 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:45.840 they would not want to watch their child fail at something, 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.640 especially at music. It's you know, it's quite a self 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:52.000 serving industry. I do it because I like it. I 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:54.600 don't do it because I want to share my love 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.040 and experience with the world. Now I do it because 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:58.760 I enjoy it, and i'm you know, I don't know 0:07:58.760 --> 0:07:59.520 how to do anything else. 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.040 Yeah, and your most kids suck at. 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:05.760 That helps. 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:07.280 Yeah, I guess that does kind of help have a 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.320 natural ability. But even if you do, there's still a 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.840 lot of luck involved. And I will admit, you know, 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.120 the harder you work, the lucky you do become. And 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:18.360 I work very, very hard, but I do know that 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:19.640 there is also luck. 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:21.160 Involved, of which I'm very grateful for. 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:23.400 But that's you know, you got to be prepared to 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:24.760 take those opportunities when they get it. 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.360 That's what luck is, opportunity preparation exactly. 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:28.120 Yeah, exactly. 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:30.960 And just from my standpoint big country music fan, when 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:32.680 you all were getting on the radio, I was kind 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.199 of slowly drifting away from ever listening to country music 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:35.880 radio a lot. 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:37.960 Yeah, you both, there's Osborne kind. 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:41.040 Of I was like, oh, thank fucking God, because I 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:42.720 was living in Austin. I was hearing all this great 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.120 red dirt country. I'm like, it's never on anything but 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:47.280 like one little local channel or I'm like iPad and 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:49.400 they're like finally, I'm like, oh this is actually And 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.199 then there was like christ able To and there's a 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:52.560 lot of these guys that really like I feel you. 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:54.320 All were a hometown boys. 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:54.480 Man. 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.080 I was like, just you didn't even know. 0:08:58.360 --> 0:08:59.160 Yeah, that's right. 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:01.880 So when I met my wife in Austin, one of 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:03.439 the bars that we were out at the first night 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:05.720 we had like dinner and went out. We were in 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.920 West West sixth Street, Star Bar, Shout Out, Starbar. Brothers 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:11.640 Osborne came on. We were kind of like drinking and 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.199 dancing as a song we both liked and yeah, I laid. 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:17.400 One honor at that point, I ever said, so to 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:17.960 shake your hand. 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.160 Yeah yeah, man alm a couple of beers. 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:23.640 Yeah, he was a wingman from Afar. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:25.800 That's right, man, I'm here for you, dude. You named 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:30.719 your first child after me. Oh man, But. 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.599 I was going to ask you about you mentioned you've 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.880 always had struggles with mental health. Yeah, just can you 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.720 give us a little background or yeah, yeah, you said 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:40.640 your whole life kind of. 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:41.880 So yeah, yeah, totally. 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:45.760 So I'll start about five years ago, in twenty nineteen, 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.240 I was dealing with really, really bad anxiety. I dealt 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:51.120 with anxiety kind of my whole life. I didn't know 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:52.520 what it was for a long time. I just thought 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.040 everyone kind of dealt with it, which everyone does have 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:58.000 anxiety to a degree, but mine was starting to become debilitating. 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.160 On stage, I never fel it, In fact, it was 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.600 the only way I would stop feeling it. But before 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:05.840 being on stage, and after being on stage, it was 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:07.280 just like, I don't know. 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:08.319 My mind was a mess. 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:12.880 And then I ended up contracting something called tennitis or tenetist. 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:14.480 Which is the ringing of the ears. 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:18.000 I started losing sleep, and then it all kind of 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:21.319 compounded it snowball effect. I wasn't sleeping, and I started 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.080 like it was nearly psychosis level. It was in my 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.400 mind and it was suicidal and all these things. And 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.760 I started staying a lot, going to a lot of therapy. 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.439 I had to do like a three week stint and 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.080 basically rehab, but not for drugs or alcohol, just for 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.560 mental health and tons of therapy. 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.480 What was going on in your because you said you've 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:47.480 grown up with anxiety. You know, your whole life, you 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.200 didn't really know what it was. I feel very similar 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:50.520 where I grew up anxiety. It was just kind of 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.120 told like just calm down or like you're not yeah. 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:54.000 Just don't be nervous. 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:57.800 It's don't be nervous, like mom, just don't be anxious exactly. 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.600 It's like telling me, like just dunk a basketball. 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:05.200 I would do it if I hit me. You know. 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:07.160 It's just a different thing, you know. 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.840 I don't really know like pathologically, like where it would 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:12.280 all stem from or anything like that. 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:15.319 I do know though. 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.880 As a kid, I was just like I constantly had 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.640 this feeling of impending doom. That's something I was always 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:24.440 waiting for the other shoe to drop. 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:26.679 And I didn't really know why. 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.880 I just I felt like someone had a gun to 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:34.439 my head and I was like ship was about to write. 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.800 A moment. And it was that way forty years, you know. 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:45.520 And I learned that like through music that was really helpful. 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:47.880 Like I learned how to play guitar, and I gave 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.160 my I gave my brain something to focus on, which 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:51.839 was I want to learn how to play guitar. I 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:53.400 want to get better at this thing. It was almost 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.040 like a puzzle, but it was also a way of 0:11:56.120 --> 0:12:00.640 expressing myself emotionally because I wasn't very good at doing 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:06.280 it verbally. And I still am am that way to 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.760 a bit, to quite an extreme. I've learned how to 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.240 do it because of therapy, but as a kid, I 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.719 just didn't know how to express myself emotionally at all. 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:19.040 So fast forward this thing. I would go to my room, 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.160 I would play guitar for hours. I loved it, and 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:23.800 I just didn't want to be around people. 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:24.959 And then that very. 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:30.200 Thing ended up putting me in front of a tremendous 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.520 amount of people, and I'm like, hang on, this is 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.200 like the sword I'm falling on. Like I love doing 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.680 this thing. I just want to sit in my room 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.120 and play guitar. And I do like performing, like that 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:46.160 part's really fun. But I'm having to interact with a 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.440 lot of people on a daily basis, and I'm also 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.160 facing such criticism and judgment from outside people that I've 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:56.360 never met my fucking life, and it's it becomes important suddenly, 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:01.800 and it all kind of like snowball from that to 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:03.760 the point I couldn't escape it. Like I was playing 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.319 music to get away from it. But that was the 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:08.880 very thing putting me in front of it, so I 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.400 didn't have an escape anymore. The only thing that I 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:13.320 knew how to do growing up in a blue collar, 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.880 working class family was just what my dad did when 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.320 times were tough, You just work harder. So that's what 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:20.280 I did. I buried myself in my work. I was 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.760 in the studio, I was writing a ton I was 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:29.400 working on the computer, whatever, playing stuff, anything that I 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.000 could do that was not me dealing with my shit. 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:37.000 I did until you know, you sweep something, you sweep 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:38.800 it all under the rug enough to where the rug 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.440 is sitting on top of a mountain. And that's where 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:45.080 I was, and it all came crashing down in an 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:48.480 epic way. You know, looking back, it was the best 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:50.440 thing that would have happened to me. By the time, 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.240 it was the hardest time in my life, no question. 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.720 Okay, So you are released from you know, the treatment 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:06.040 after you go in there and get checked and you 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:10.320 said about three weeks, yeahs okay, what was the post 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.520 release like treatment plan that they gave us? Like, what 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.720 were you doing from a therapy standpoint, a medical thandpoint 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.360 where you give the medications or what was that discussion about, 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:17.840 and yeah. 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:18.880 Be curious, Yeah, totally. 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.200 So when they released me, I ended up working with 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:25.200 a really great therapist in town, doing I think two 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.120 a week with him. After three weeks of being gone, 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.960 like and then coming back in like I didn't see 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.880 a stop light, I didn't see a sign for a 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.240 gas station. And when you're out like in the wilderness, 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.080 when you don't see that stuff for three weeks, you 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:41.960 when you see it for the first time, you're like, damn, 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.200 this is what I see on a daily basis. This 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:50.400 is way over stimulating. And and I I did basically 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:52.920 a lot of therapy, a lot of other modalities. I 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.960 ended up checking myself into another place called Rogers Behavioral 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:56.840 Health for OCD. 0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:58.240 So I had tenantus. 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.120 My ears were still ringing, having a lot of issues, 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:03.440 and I was hoping that maybe if I could treat 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:07.000 my obsessive compulsive disorder that it would help me learn 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.720 how to deal with it. And Rogers' Behavioral Health for 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:13.400 those that have debilitating the CD, is really really amazing 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:15.680 to do great stuff. They do a lot of different 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:20.200 types of therapy, exposure, responsible prevention therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.320 all really really good things for that and people that 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:28.880 suffer tenatus or tonight is. And in that time before 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:34.240 I went there, I was also checked into a hospital 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:38.240 because my attendants came back severely and they put me 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:44.040 on an SSRI, which got me kind of in a 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.560 place where I did not want to kill myself. In 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:51.800 full disclosure, I'm still on that SSRI today because it 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:53.560 does also it also. 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.600 Sort of it helped with my ears ringing a little bit. 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.200 And for people that don't know at home, SSRI. 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:02.840 Yeah, it's just an anti depressidant, serotonin selective serotonin reuptake 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.360 and and not that that matters. I don't even know why, 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.320 but I did some research. I'm the kind of guy 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.200 that thinks that could think my way out of anything. 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.680 It's one of my greatest strengths and also one of 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:17.240 my greatest faults. And I did some research on Reddit 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:21.640 and I found that people were experimenting with with mushrooms 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.800 for anxiety depression. And then I heard for tenatus and 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.440 I thought, man, this is wild. And I had talked 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:32.520 to some people prior to me going into rehab. I 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:34.880 talked to a friend of mine who did a hero's 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.000 dose I mean he said it changed his life. 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.560 Is there a I guess there's no like medical standard 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.280 for heroes do what is that? 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:48.680 Yeah, a hero's dose is between three point five grams 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.000 and five grams. I would imagine they get the three 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.360 point five grams, is it? Because like for those of 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:57.360 us who bought weed back in the day, that was 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:01.560 an eighth you know, so three point five grams to five, 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.520 But you would start at three point five and then 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:07.600 if you are an hour to two hours in you 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:10.760 felt like you needed more, they would give you. I 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.000 think call it like a kicker or something like that. 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:15.159 But it was another gram and a half. And I 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.679 mean you are like, you are gone, baby. But but 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.600 if you're ready for it, it's it's really really great. 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:27.440 He was a really bad alcoholic, just a very unhealthy 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:31.920 person dealing with really intense trauma and depression who was 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.920 going to kill himself and as a hill Mary passed. 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.240 He just did a big heroes dose and it changed 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.640 his life. He's a completely changed man to this day. 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:43.400 Every time I sam, I'm like, I love you dude, 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:45.440 because he took the time out of his day. I 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.720 didn't meet him until a year later to tell me 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:50.800 about it. But at the time, I was just like, 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.159 the idea of I was so messed up. But the 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:58.040 idea of off, I take a mushrooms which I'd taken before, 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.480 Like that sounds insane to me. I'm like, I was 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.520 so afraid of even eating the wrong food. I was 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:08.479 a mess. So after doing all of this therapy and 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.960 I knew there was still a lot of work to 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:15.000 be done and the SSRIs were okay, but they weren't. 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.439 It wasn't really like crushing it. About a year later, 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.359 I reached out to a friend of mine who does 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:29.480 guided psilocybin trips, and I was very interested in the idea, 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.440 but again just worried. I mean, I felt so delicate 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.920 and I felt fragile. I felt like any wrong decision 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:37.480 could just put me back to where I was, and 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.040