1
00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,440
Speaker 1: We're looking at something that could profoundly change people's lives.

2
00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,000
Speaker 1: It has profoundly changed my life, my wife's life, my

3
00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,119
Speaker 1: dad's wife, all of my friends Aronny that have done

4
00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,119
Speaker 1: it well, I have seen it well.

5
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,440
Speaker 2: Eyes Lava for Good and Stand Together in Music Present

6
00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,040
Speaker 2: The War on Drugs Podcast, Season two. This season, we're

7
00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,960
Speaker 2: diving deeper into the real stories behind the War on Drugs,

8
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,959
Speaker 2: It's impact, it's failures, and the people offering a better

9
00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:28,960
Speaker 2: path forwards today on the show. Founder guitarists and background

10
00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:33,200
Speaker 2: vocalist for The Amazing Brothers Osborne, co author of Billboard

11
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,360
Speaker 2: Hot Country Hits, Stay a Little Longer, It Ate My Fault,

12
00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:37,120
Speaker 2: Shoot Me.

13
00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:38,519
Speaker 3: Straight, and All Night.

14
00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,519
Speaker 2: Winner of six awards from the Academy of Country Music,

15
00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,360
Speaker 2: five awards from the Country Music Association and twelve nominations,

16
00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,440
Speaker 2: and one award from the Grammy Awards for Best Country

17
00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,920
Speaker 2: Duo Group Performance in twenty twenty two, and a passionate

18
00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:58,160
Speaker 2: advocate for psychedelic assisted mental health therapy. Mister John Osborne,

19
00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,880
Speaker 2: all right, well, I'm welcome back Season two The War

20
00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:02,760
Speaker 2: on Drugs Podcast.

21
00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,959
Speaker 3: Greg Glove really excited about our interview.

22
00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,800
Speaker 4: Man. We do went down to Nashville, which has been

23
00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,800
Speaker 4: called the white Atlanta, and I can't.

24
00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,679
Speaker 5: Say that it's not I see that.

25
00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is a very music focus. They've got their

26
00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,880
Speaker 4: own little party seede. I enjoyed myself. It's good. I've

27
00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,320
Speaker 4: never seen that many white cowboy boots in my life

28
00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:27,680
Speaker 4: and I enjoyed it.

29
00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:29,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love country music.

30
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:34,160
Speaker 2: And to meet John Osborne, like you're from Yeah, he's

31
00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,880
Speaker 2: from Deal Hunt Deal, Maryland, but Liz in Nashville.

32
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,160
Speaker 3: Now. It was in his studio, like on the east

33
00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:42,280
Speaker 3: side of town, and.

34
00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,920
Speaker 2: Nice studio, man, really nice studio and like just his

35
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:46,959
Speaker 2: records and stuff.

36
00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:48,640
Speaker 3: It was just like a cool experience to be in there.

37
00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,560
Speaker 2: And yeah, but we really got into some really deep stuff.

38
00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,600
Speaker 2: And I can't thank him enough for being so open

39
00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,720
Speaker 2: about his own struggles with, you know, mental health, his

40
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,920
Speaker 2: speriences with using psychedelics, talking to friends about him. I

41
00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 2: think it was just a great conversation about what we're

42
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 2: talking about here where it's not the right path for everyone,

43
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,560
Speaker 2: but we need to allow for these things to be

44
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:19,239
Speaker 2: discussed openly, honestly and allow for people to potentially gain

45
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,320
Speaker 2: the benefits of this if it makes sense for them.

46
00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,360
Speaker 2: And I think just the way John went about it

47
00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,000
Speaker 2: and talked to us about it, It was just a really

48
00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:25,680
Speaker 2: cool conversation.

49
00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think he was very real just about

50
00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:30,480
Speaker 4: what worked for him.

51
00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:31,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

52
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,840
Speaker 2: I think if you're kind of a skeptic about a

53
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:36,480
Speaker 2: lot of this stuff, I think this is like a

54
00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:40,040
Speaker 2: really good conversation because it came from someone that was

55
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,519
Speaker 2: a skeptic as well, and just kind of those discussions

56
00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,920
Speaker 2: and what his experiences were in very detailed.

57
00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,079
Speaker 5: And I don't want.

58
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:49,240
Speaker 3: To waste any more time on this.

59
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,079
Speaker 2: Good to it, Yeah, good to it now further ado

60
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,440
Speaker 2: here John Osborne.

61
00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:01,359
Speaker 4: Hey, that me and Greg, our guests and sponsors may

62
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,280
Speaker 4: sound smart, we may even make some good points, but

63
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,240
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, we're not medical professional.

64
00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:07,239
Speaker 5: Okay.

65
00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,720
Speaker 4: Please don't get your medical advice from a podcast. Anything

66
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,680
Speaker 4: we say on here does not constitute official medical advice. Relax,

67
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,559
Speaker 4: consult your doctor before you start any new treatment plans.

68
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:20,280
Speaker 5: Got it.

69
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,720
Speaker 3: We are here in Nashville, Tennessee.

70
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:24,840
Speaker 5: Nashville.

71
00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:25,840
Speaker 3: We were with.

72
00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,079
Speaker 2: John Osborne right now, one half of the Brothers Osbourne.

73
00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,440
Speaker 2: We are in his recording studio right outside of downtown

74
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:33,920
Speaker 2: on the east side of Nashville.

75
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,320
Speaker 4: Come cabin. Yeah, Grammy Winners CMA.

76
00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, all the all the stuff, yes, as yeah.

77
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 2: And the best part about him he grew up about

78
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,160
Speaker 2: thirty minutes away from me. We were talking before, so

79
00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,119
Speaker 2: we're both Maryland boys. Yeah that was hunt.

80
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:50,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I see the black eyed Susan.

81
00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:51,240
Speaker 5: Uh that's right.

82
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:51,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

83
00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone asks some of their daisies. Yeah, yeah, I know,

84
00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:58,120
Speaker 1: never forget.

85
00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, never forget never never spent some times in their preakness.

86
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:03,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, couple reading us all the stuff. I mean, what

87
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,520
Speaker 1: peop don't understand about Maryland. It's actually a big equine state,

88
00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,200
Speaker 1: you know. So I like being in country music. Everyone goes,

89
00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,280
Speaker 1: how did you get into that being from Maryland. I'm like,

90
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:12,920
Speaker 1: I don't know.

91
00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:13,320
Speaker 5: I didn't know.

92
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:14,880
Speaker 1: I wasn't supposed to get into it. I mean, it's

93
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:16,960
Speaker 1: just it's mostly farms. I mean, how you go an

94
00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,560
Speaker 1: hour out of any town and it's just farms, you know.

95
00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,440
Speaker 5: But people like to draw lines. I have to raise

96
00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,240
Speaker 5: something the horse.

97
00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:25,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

98
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, thank you for joining us podcast man, and

99
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:29,640
Speaker 2: I'm really excited about this.

100
00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:31,359
Speaker 5: The same fan for a while.

101
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,280
Speaker 2: Before we kind of get into a lot of the

102
00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,359
Speaker 2: stuff we're going to talk about, let's talk about you,

103
00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,920
Speaker 2: so born you know in Deal. It's a small town's

104
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,239
Speaker 2: on the water, over the water water.

105
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were, we were reliving our Maryland accents earlier.

106
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:46,640
Speaker 5: So no, I love.

107
00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,880
Speaker 4: Learning about it because I didn't know that. Like, yeah,

108
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:49,680
Speaker 4: I love for.

109
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:50,440
Speaker 5: A couple of days of it.

110
00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:56,839
Speaker 1: You'll be like you please stuff. But it's a small

111
00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,320
Speaker 1: town called Deal, Maryland. It's on the it's on the

112
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,719
Speaker 1: chests beat Bed about forty five to fifty minutes east

113
00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,720
Speaker 1: of d C. Where you live now, fifty minutes south

114
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,200
Speaker 1: of Baltimore. And yeah, man, it's just kind of a

115
00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,680
Speaker 1: very humble town public school, played in bands, you know,

116
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 1: just trying to pursue the American dream, you know, just

117
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:16,599
Speaker 1: kind of a small kid from nowhere.

118
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:16,920
Speaker 5: Yeah.

119
00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,240
Speaker 2: And so you've been playing music your kind of whole

120
00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,880
Speaker 2: life for your family? Were they musical or how that all?

121
00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:22,440
Speaker 4: Yeah?

122
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:23,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, man.

123
00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,080
Speaker 1: So my both of my parents would sing and write songs.

124
00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,279
Speaker 1: The reason why I ended up in Nashville is because

125
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,760
Speaker 1: they would come down to Nashville a lot as songwriters

126
00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,520
Speaker 1: when we were kids. And it's a hard industry to

127
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 1: get into. I mean, you know, you know, it is

128
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,000
Speaker 1: like being in comedy. It's like you have to commit

129
00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,400
Speaker 1: so much of yourself to do it that they, you know,

130
00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,000
Speaker 1: had kids that were at home and jobs and mortgage

131
00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,520
Speaker 1: and all those things and just didn't quite work out

132
00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,080
Speaker 1: for them. However, it did pave the way for my

133
00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,800
Speaker 1: brother and I to feel like, okay, this seems possible

134
00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,720
Speaker 1: because they they kind of started the trend for us.

135
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,000
Speaker 1: But it's something that we've always done, you know, always

136
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,520
Speaker 1: played music. Our parents would sit around the kitchen table

137
00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,040
Speaker 1: and write and sing songs, and it was a very

138
00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,640
Speaker 1: normal thing for us. We didn't realize it was abnormal

139
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,240
Speaker 1: until we left the nest.

140
00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,680
Speaker 4: Right right. Were your parents weary about you going into

141
00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,240
Speaker 4: it knowing how hard it was, or were they the

142
00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:17,599
Speaker 4: ones like, oh, okay, we're going to tell you everything

143
00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 4: we know and we want to see y'all.

144
00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,480
Speaker 1: That the second one, for sure, I'm grateful for that. Again,

145
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,960
Speaker 1: it's like you only know what you know. But our

146
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,080
Speaker 1: parents they were so so supportive. You know, they weren't

147
00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,640
Speaker 1: necessarily helicopter parents by any stretch, but they were very,

148
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,120
Speaker 1: very supportive. And also they were kind of able to

149
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,560
Speaker 1: live vicariously through us. But we never felt pressured to

150
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,400
Speaker 1: do it. We come from, you know, quite a conservative area,

151
00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,840
Speaker 1: but we were like this little like kind of progressive

152
00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,960
Speaker 1: island within our town. Our parents would not care if

153
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,039
Speaker 1: we wanted to be mimes or we wanted to be

154
00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,680
Speaker 1: a lawyer or a guitar player. They just do it

155
00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,200
Speaker 1: and we'll support you one hundred percent. I'm very, very

156
00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,919
Speaker 1: grateful for that. You know, I know a lot of

157
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,760
Speaker 1: people and our line of work that their parents weren't

158
00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 1: very supportive.

159
00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:05,680
Speaker 5: I could imagine that was tough.

160
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

161
00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:07,800
Speaker 5: My parents were.

162
00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,360
Speaker 3: My dad's a secret service age, Like he's a He

163
00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,200
Speaker 3: still terrifies me to this, No I do.

164
00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:13,680
Speaker 5: He's a big dude.

165
00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:13,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

166
00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,360
Speaker 3: So like if I was like, yeah, I'm gonna head

167
00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,040
Speaker 3: out and do a music career, he'd been like you.

168
00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you're out of your mind, And he

169
00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,400
Speaker 1: would be right, because you are. In order to pursue

170
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,400
Speaker 1: something like that, you got to be a little crazy

171
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,640
Speaker 1: to you know. And I mean, I don't know, to

172
00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,200
Speaker 1: be honest with you, I don't know. Thirty years later,

173
00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,440
Speaker 1: I still don't know why I do it, Like I

174
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,800
Speaker 1: just am compelled. But you know, for everyone that succeeds

175
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,800
Speaker 1: one hundred fail and the successfully is so small, I

176
00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,679
Speaker 1: understand why a parent would be weary of that because

177
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,840
Speaker 1: they would not want to watch their child fail at something,

178
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,640
Speaker 1: especially at music. It's you know, it's quite a self

179
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,000
Speaker 1: serving industry. I do it because I like it. I

180
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,600
Speaker 1: don't do it because I want to share my love

181
00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,040
Speaker 1: and experience with the world. Now I do it because

182
00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:58,760
Speaker 1: I enjoy it, and i'm you know, I don't know

183
00:07:58,760 --> 00:07:59,520
Speaker 1: how to do anything else.

184
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and your most kids suck at.

185
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:05,760
Speaker 4: That helps.

186
00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess that does kind of help have a

187
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,320
Speaker 1: natural ability. But even if you do, there's still a

188
00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,840
Speaker 1: lot of luck involved. And I will admit, you know,

189
00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,120
Speaker 1: the harder you work, the lucky you do become. And

190
00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,360
Speaker 1: I work very, very hard, but I do know that

191
00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 1: there is also luck.

192
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,160
Speaker 5: Involved, of which I'm very grateful for.

193
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,400
Speaker 2: But that's you know, you got to be prepared to

194
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:24,760
Speaker 2: take those opportunities when they get it.

195
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,360
Speaker 3: That's what luck is, opportunity preparation exactly.

196
00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:28,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.

197
00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,960
Speaker 2: And just from my standpoint big country music fan, when

198
00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:32,680
Speaker 2: you all were getting on the radio, I was kind

199
00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,199
Speaker 2: of slowly drifting away from ever listening to country music

200
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 2: radio a lot.

201
00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:37,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, you both, there's Osborne kind.

202
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,040
Speaker 2: Of I was like, oh, thank fucking God, because I

203
00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:42,720
Speaker 2: was living in Austin. I was hearing all this great

204
00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,120
Speaker 2: red dirt country. I'm like, it's never on anything but

205
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,280
Speaker 2: like one little local channel or I'm like iPad and

206
00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,400
Speaker 2: they're like finally, I'm like, oh this is actually And

207
00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,199
Speaker 2: then there was like christ able To and there's a

208
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:52,560
Speaker 2: lot of these guys that really like I feel you.

209
00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,320
Speaker 1: All were a hometown boys.

210
00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:54,480
Speaker 5: Man.

211
00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,080
Speaker 3: I was like, just you didn't even know.

212
00:08:58,360 --> 00:08:59,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right.

213
00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 2: So when I met my wife in Austin, one of

214
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:03,439
Speaker 2: the bars that we were out at the first night

215
00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,720
Speaker 2: we had like dinner and went out. We were in

216
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,920
Speaker 2: West West sixth Street, Star Bar, Shout Out, Starbar. Brothers

217
00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:11,640
Speaker 2: Osborne came on. We were kind of like drinking and

218
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,199
Speaker 2: dancing as a song we both liked and yeah, I laid.

219
00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,400
Speaker 3: One honor at that point, I ever said, so to

220
00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:17,960
Speaker 3: shake your hand.

221
00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,160
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, man alm a couple of beers.

222
00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:23,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was a wingman from Afar.

223
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,800
Speaker 1: That's right, man, I'm here for you, dude. You named

224
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,719
Speaker 1: your first child after me. Oh man, But.

225
00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,599
Speaker 4: I was going to ask you about you mentioned you've

226
00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,880
Speaker 4: always had struggles with mental health. Yeah, just can you

227
00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,720
Speaker 4: give us a little background or yeah, yeah, you said

228
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:40,640
Speaker 4: your whole life kind of.

229
00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:41,880
Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah, totally.

230
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,760
Speaker 1: So I'll start about five years ago, in twenty nineteen,

231
00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,240
Speaker 1: I was dealing with really, really bad anxiety. I dealt

232
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,120
Speaker 1: with anxiety kind of my whole life. I didn't know

233
00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:52,520
Speaker 1: what it was for a long time. I just thought

234
00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,040
Speaker 1: everyone kind of dealt with it, which everyone does have

235
00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,000
Speaker 1: anxiety to a degree, but mine was starting to become debilitating.

236
00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,160
Speaker 1: On stage, I never fel it, In fact, it was

237
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,600
Speaker 1: the only way I would stop feeling it. But before

238
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:05,840
Speaker 1: being on stage, and after being on stage, it was

239
00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,280
Speaker 1: just like, I don't know.

240
00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:08,319
Speaker 5: My mind was a mess.

241
00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,880
Speaker 1: And then I ended up contracting something called tennitis or tenetist.

242
00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:14,480
Speaker 5: Which is the ringing of the ears.

243
00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,000
Speaker 1: I started losing sleep, and then it all kind of

244
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,319
Speaker 1: compounded it snowball effect. I wasn't sleeping, and I started

245
00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,080
Speaker 1: like it was nearly psychosis level. It was in my

246
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,400
Speaker 1: mind and it was suicidal and all these things. And

247
00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,760
Speaker 1: I started staying a lot, going to a lot of therapy.

248
00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,439
Speaker 1: I had to do like a three week stint and

249
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,080
Speaker 1: basically rehab, but not for drugs or alcohol, just for

250
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,560
Speaker 1: mental health and tons of therapy.

251
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,480
Speaker 2: What was going on in your because you said you've

252
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,480
Speaker 2: grown up with anxiety. You know, your whole life, you

253
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,200
Speaker 2: didn't really know what it was. I feel very similar

254
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:50,520
Speaker 2: where I grew up anxiety. It was just kind of

255
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,120
Speaker 2: told like just calm down or like you're not yeah.

256
00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:54,000
Speaker 5: Just don't be nervous.

257
00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,800
Speaker 1: It's don't be nervous, like mom, just don't be anxious exactly.

258
00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,600
Speaker 1: It's like telling me, like just dunk a basketball.

259
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,200
Speaker 5: I would do it if I hit me. You know.

260
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,160
Speaker 5: It's just a different thing, you know.

261
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,840
Speaker 1: I don't really know like pathologically, like where it would

262
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:12,280
Speaker 1: all stem from or anything like that.

263
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:15,319
Speaker 5: I do know though.

264
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,880
Speaker 1: As a kid, I was just like I constantly had

265
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,640
Speaker 1: this feeling of impending doom. That's something I was always

266
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,440
Speaker 1: waiting for the other shoe to drop.

267
00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,679
Speaker 5: And I didn't really know why.

268
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,880
Speaker 1: I just I felt like someone had a gun to

269
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,439
Speaker 1: my head and I was like ship was about to write.

270
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,800
Speaker 5: A moment. And it was that way forty years, you know.

271
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:45,520
Speaker 1: And I learned that like through music that was really helpful.

272
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,880
Speaker 1: Like I learned how to play guitar, and I gave

273
00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,160
Speaker 1: my I gave my brain something to focus on, which

274
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:51,839
Speaker 1: was I want to learn how to play guitar. I

275
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:53,400
Speaker 1: want to get better at this thing. It was almost

276
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,040
Speaker 1: like a puzzle, but it was also a way of

277
00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,640
Speaker 1: expressing myself emotionally because I wasn't very good at doing

278
00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:06,280
Speaker 1: it verbally. And I still am am that way to

279
00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,760
Speaker 1: a bit, to quite an extreme. I've learned how to

280
00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,240
Speaker 1: do it because of therapy, but as a kid, I

281
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,719
Speaker 1: just didn't know how to express myself emotionally at all.

282
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,040
Speaker 1: So fast forward this thing. I would go to my room,

283
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,160
Speaker 1: I would play guitar for hours. I loved it, and

284
00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:23,800
Speaker 1: I just didn't want to be around people.

285
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:24,959
Speaker 5: And then that very.

286
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,200
Speaker 1: Thing ended up putting me in front of a tremendous

287
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,520
Speaker 1: amount of people, and I'm like, hang on, this is

288
00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,200
Speaker 1: like the sword I'm falling on. Like I love doing

289
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,680
Speaker 1: this thing. I just want to sit in my room

290
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,120
Speaker 1: and play guitar. And I do like performing, like that

291
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,160
Speaker 1: part's really fun. But I'm having to interact with a

292
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,440
Speaker 1: lot of people on a daily basis, and I'm also

293
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,160
Speaker 1: facing such criticism and judgment from outside people that I've

294
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,360
Speaker 1: never met my fucking life, and it's it becomes important suddenly,

295
00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:01,800
Speaker 1: and it all kind of like snowball from that to

296
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:03,760
Speaker 1: the point I couldn't escape it. Like I was playing

297
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,319
Speaker 1: music to get away from it. But that was the

298
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 1: very thing putting me in front of it, so I

299
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,400
Speaker 1: didn't have an escape anymore. The only thing that I

300
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,320
Speaker 1: knew how to do growing up in a blue collar,

301
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,880
Speaker 1: working class family was just what my dad did when

302
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,320
Speaker 1: times were tough, You just work harder. So that's what

303
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,280
Speaker 1: I did. I buried myself in my work. I was

304
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,760
Speaker 1: in the studio, I was writing a ton I was

305
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:29,400
Speaker 1: working on the computer, whatever, playing stuff, anything that I

306
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,000
Speaker 1: could do that was not me dealing with my shit.

307
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:37,000
Speaker 1: I did until you know, you sweep something, you sweep

308
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,800
Speaker 1: it all under the rug enough to where the rug

309
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,440
Speaker 1: is sitting on top of a mountain. And that's where

310
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,080
Speaker 1: I was, and it all came crashing down in an

311
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,480
Speaker 1: epic way. You know, looking back, it was the best

312
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,440
Speaker 1: thing that would have happened to me. By the time,

313
00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,240
Speaker 1: it was the hardest time in my life, no question.

314
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,720
Speaker 2: Okay, So you are released from you know, the treatment

315
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,040
Speaker 2: after you go in there and get checked and you

316
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,320
Speaker 2: said about three weeks, yeahs okay, what was the post

317
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,520
Speaker 2: release like treatment plan that they gave us? Like, what

318
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,720
Speaker 2: were you doing from a therapy standpoint, a medical thandpoint

319
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,360
Speaker 2: where you give the medications or what was that discussion about,

320
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:17,840
Speaker 2: and yeah.

321
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:18,880
Speaker 5: Be curious, Yeah, totally.

322
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 1: So when they released me, I ended up working with

323
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,200
Speaker 1: a really great therapist in town, doing I think two

324
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,120
Speaker 1: a week with him. After three weeks of being gone,

325
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,960
Speaker 1: like and then coming back in like I didn't see

326
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,880
Speaker 1: a stop light, I didn't see a sign for a

327
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,240
Speaker 1: gas station. And when you're out like in the wilderness,

328
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,080
Speaker 1: when you don't see that stuff for three weeks, you

329
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,960
Speaker 1: when you see it for the first time, you're like, damn,

330
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,200
Speaker 1: this is what I see on a daily basis. This

331
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 1: is way over stimulating. And and I I did basically

332
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,920
Speaker 1: a lot of therapy, a lot of other modalities. I

333
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,960
Speaker 1: ended up checking myself into another place called Rogers Behavioral

334
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:56,840
Speaker 1: Health for OCD.

335
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 5: So I had tenantus.

336
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,120
Speaker 1: My ears were still ringing, having a lot of issues,

337
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,440
Speaker 1: and I was hoping that maybe if I could treat

338
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,000
Speaker 1: my obsessive compulsive disorder that it would help me learn

339
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 1: how to deal with it. And Rogers' Behavioral Health for

340
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,400
Speaker 1: those that have debilitating the CD, is really really amazing

341
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,680
Speaker 1: to do great stuff. They do a lot of different

342
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:20,200
Speaker 1: types of therapy, exposure, responsible prevention therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy,

343
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,320
Speaker 1: all really really good things for that and people that

344
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:28,880
Speaker 1: suffer tenatus or tonight is. And in that time before

345
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:34,240
Speaker 1: I went there, I was also checked into a hospital

346
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,240
Speaker 1: because my attendants came back severely and they put me

347
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:44,040
Speaker 1: on an SSRI, which got me kind of in a

348
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,560
Speaker 1: place where I did not want to kill myself. In

349
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,800
Speaker 1: full disclosure, I'm still on that SSRI today because it

350
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,560
Speaker 1: does also it also.

351
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,600
Speaker 5: Sort of it helped with my ears ringing a little bit.

352
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,200
Speaker 3: And for people that don't know at home, SSRI.

353
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just an anti depressidant, serotonin selective serotonin reuptake

354
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,360
Speaker 1: and and not that that matters. I don't even know why,

355
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,320
Speaker 1: but I did some research. I'm the kind of guy

356
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 1: that thinks that could think my way out of anything.

357
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,680
Speaker 1: It's one of my greatest strengths and also one of

358
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:17,240
Speaker 1: my greatest faults. And I did some research on Reddit

359
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,640
Speaker 1: and I found that people were experimenting with with mushrooms

360
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,800
Speaker 1: for anxiety depression. And then I heard for tenatus and

361
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,440
Speaker 1: I thought, man, this is wild. And I had talked

362
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:32,520
Speaker 1: to some people prior to me going into rehab. I

363
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,880
Speaker 1: talked to a friend of mine who did a hero's

364
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 1: dose I mean he said it changed his life.

365
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,560
Speaker 3: Is there a I guess there's no like medical standard

366
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,280
Speaker 3: for heroes do what is that?

367
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, a hero's dose is between three point five grams

368
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,000
Speaker 1: and five grams. I would imagine they get the three

369
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 1: point five grams, is it? Because like for those of

370
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,360
Speaker 1: us who bought weed back in the day, that was

371
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,560
Speaker 1: an eighth you know, so three point five grams to five,

372
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,520
Speaker 1: But you would start at three point five and then

373
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,600
Speaker 1: if you are an hour to two hours in you

374
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:10,760
Speaker 1: felt like you needed more, they would give you. I

375
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,000
Speaker 1: think call it like a kicker or something like that.

376
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,159
Speaker 1: But it was another gram and a half. And I

377
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,679
Speaker 1: mean you are like, you are gone, baby. But but

378
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,600
Speaker 1: if you're ready for it, it's it's really really great.

379
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,440
Speaker 1: He was a really bad alcoholic, just a very unhealthy

380
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,920
Speaker 1: person dealing with really intense trauma and depression who was

381
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,920
Speaker 1: going to kill himself and as a hill Mary passed.

382
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,240
Speaker 1: He just did a big heroes dose and it changed

383
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,640
Speaker 1: his life. He's a completely changed man to this day.

384
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,400
Speaker 1: Every time I sam, I'm like, I love you dude,

385
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,440
Speaker 1: because he took the time out of his day. I

386
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,720
Speaker 1: didn't meet him until a year later to tell me

387
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 1: about it. But at the time, I was just like,

388
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,159
Speaker 1: the idea of I was so messed up. But the

389
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,040
Speaker 1: idea of off, I take a mushrooms which I'd taken before,

390
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,480
Speaker 1: Like that sounds insane to me. I'm like, I was

391
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,520
Speaker 1: so afraid of even eating the wrong food. I was

392
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,479
Speaker 1: a mess. So after doing all of this therapy and

393
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,960
Speaker 1: I knew there was still a lot of work to

394
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,000
Speaker 1: be done and the SSRIs were okay, but they weren't.

395
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,439
Speaker 1: It wasn't really like crushing it. About a year later,

396
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,359
Speaker 1: I reached out to a friend of mine who does

397
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:29,480
Speaker 1: guided psilocybin trips, and I was very interested in the idea,

398
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,440
Speaker 1: but again just worried. I mean, I felt so delicate

399
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,920
Speaker 1: and I felt fragile. I felt like any wrong decision

400
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,480
Speaker 1: could just put me back to where I was, and

401
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,040
Speaker 1: it was terrifying. So, you know, I did. I read

402
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,639
Speaker 1: the Michael pollin book. I watched a bunch of interviews

403
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 1: Michael polland I found Paul Stammettz that guy's kind of

404
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:47,960
Speaker 1: awesome and nutty and I like that.

405
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 5: And again going on Reddit, like reading.

406
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,480
Speaker 1: A bunch of I don't know, kind of anecdotal stories,

407
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 1: and I talked to my friend who helps people help.

408
00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,400
Speaker 5: I won't name any names because it's still ille later.

409
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,440
Speaker 1: And he's a lovely, lovely, lovely guy. And his wife

410
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:09,320
Speaker 1: was a nurse, was a doctor, and she was convincing,

411
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,919
Speaker 1: and I thought, you know what, I'm just going to

412
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:13,400
Speaker 1: do it.

413
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 5: I'm going to do it. And I mentally prepared myself

414
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,160
Speaker 5: for doing it. And I knew I.

415
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 1: Had done so much work, so much therapy, so much

416
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:27,879
Speaker 1: self reflection. I was on these SSRIs. I felt strong

417
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,199
Speaker 1: going into it, like I'm not afraid, and I felt

418
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 1: ready for whatever is going to happen. I'm ready for

419
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 1: I'm very much like talking about playing in front of

420
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:39,439
Speaker 1: eighty thousand people. I'll do it as long as I

421
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,439
Speaker 1: feel prepared, and I have to be prepared for this moment.

422
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,399
Speaker 1: And again, this is someone that has experimented with a

423
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,199
Speaker 1: lot of different drugs recreationally. And I had so much

424
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,199
Speaker 1: fun on mushrooms. I've had a weird experience of mushrooms

425
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,760
Speaker 1: that was not very fun, so I was familiar with it,

426
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 1: but in this state, I was just kind of it's

427
00:19:58,400 --> 00:19:59,879
Speaker 1: a heavy thing to do.

428
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,479
Speaker 3: You know, were you with anyone in the room or

429
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 3: were you on the guy? Yeah, who was kind of.

430
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 1: Well, my friend who was doing who still is doing

431
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 1: GUYIDS Guided trips, he was there and you are with him.

432
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,440
Speaker 1: And so for those of you that don't know about this,

433
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 1: there is a playlist on Spotify that is about six

434
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 1: hours long that is music to guide you through this journey.

435
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 1: And it's kind of like, you know, a progressive musical journey,

436
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 1: even if you're sober.

437
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 5: It is beautiful to listen to. When you take these drugs.

438
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 1: It's supposed to make you feel like it's taking you

439
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,400
Speaker 1: where you need to go and what There are two

440
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:44,439
Speaker 1: very important things when taking psychedelics is set and setting.

441
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 1: Set being your mindset you're feeling are going into it.

442
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 1: Setting being where you are and who you're with. And

443
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 1: those are two of the biggest things. And I know

444
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 1: from experience that those things are very important because it

445
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 1: can go south if they're not right. Noticed too boy,

446
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,639
Speaker 1: and it just feels like forever you know, and you

447
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: just got to wait it out. There's there's no rushing

448
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 1: through it. So knowing those things and trusting him and

449
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 1: knowing that he had already done it with well of

450
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 1: one hundred people at this point, I was I just

451
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 1: wanted to resign to the idea just let go, so

452
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,880
Speaker 1: come to it. And I drank three and a half grams,

453
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 1: which is a lot of mushrooms, and listen to this playlist,

454
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 1: and I knew I had a lot to work on.

455
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 1: And then about an hour and a half been I

456
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,120
Speaker 1: was just my body melted. I was melting into this

457
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 1: bed that I was. It was my bed, and I felt,

458
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 1: I guess they would call it ego disillusionment, but I felt,

459
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 1: you feel this one with the universe. It sounds kind

460
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 1: of cheesy, but once you strip this ego away that

461
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,640
Speaker 1: we all have, you realize that we're actually quite connected.

462
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:55,919
Speaker 1: You know, we're all part of this fabric of space

463
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 1: and time or energy or God, whatever you.

464
00:21:59,200 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 5: Want to call it.

465
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,919
Speaker 1: Something to vine And I was able to see my

466
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 1: life experience almost visually at times from an outside perspective.

467
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: I saw like this little kid who was sweet and

468
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: kind and sensitive and also picked on as a kid

469
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 1: because I was just kind of like it was way

470
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 1: too innocent for this world, you know. And I just

471
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 1: kind of saw the people in my life that have

472
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,880
Speaker 1: maybe maybe wronged me when I was young, feeling love

473
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: and compassion for them and thinking, wow, this is so overwhelming.

474
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 1: But one of the things that I ask you to

475
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: do and going into this is you have to set

476
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: an intention. And I have an issue with feeling happy,

477
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: not in the sense of like I need pills that

478
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: made me happy. I've always felt guilty if I was successful,

479
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 1: or I always felt guilty if I was happy with something,

480
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 1: or I felt if I was happy, something bad was

481
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: going to happen. So I still struggle with it. I'm

482
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: better at it. I set that intention, and I kind

483
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 1: of remember this. But the guy that I the trip

484
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: was said, I laid on that bed and I smiled

485
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: for five hours straight, and about halfway through he asked

486
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,120
Speaker 1: me how I was doing if I wanted some more,

487
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: and I said I wanted more because I wanted to

488
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: do it. I wanted to really just give all of

489
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: myself to this thing. I took more, went to the bathroom.

490
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 1: That was crazy, so I was tripping my ass off.

491
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 5: So long. My god, it does, dude.

492
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: You're like totally start checking the calendar, like how long

493
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 1: have I been in there? And so you know, you

494
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: go back in, you put the headphones back on, and

495
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: you're right back where you were, and I just like

496
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: felt so much peace and so much love, and I

497
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: felt so unrestrained from being happy. And it like the

498
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 1: visual side of things. It aren't a lot of visuals

499
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: because what I didn't mention is you're wearing an iemask

500
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 1: so you can really focus internally, the headphones on and

501
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: an imask, and it was the closest I'm not a

502
00:23:58,880 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 1: religious person.

503
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 5: I'm not.

504
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: I'm agnostic. I'll say that I'm not an atheist. I

505
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 1: don't know enough to be an atheist, also know enough

506
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 1: to be that religious, but I will say I'm agnostic.

507
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: And after doing that, it makes you realize that there

508
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: is something far greater beyond our understanding.

509
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 5: Of this world.

510
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: You know, and you feel quite connected. After coming out

511
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: of it, I felt a piece that I hadn't felt

512
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 1: maybe in my life. It was probably the most peaceful

513
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: and calm I had ever felt in my entire life.

514
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: And I would say that lasted about three or four

515
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 1: months after that. The problem is, you know, life happens,

516
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: and you get back into your ego and you get back.

517
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 5: Into the swing of things.

518
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 1: However, no matter where I'm at in my life, I

519
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: can always resort back to that moment and go, Okay,

520
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 1: what did I learn? And I'm still gaining knowledge from that,

521
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: and that was four years ago, and again I had

522
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: done it a bunch of times before it, and it

523
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: can be very fun, But that was the one of

524
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: the single most important decisions I've ever made for myself

525
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: in my life.

526
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 5: Still to this day.

527
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 3: I'm curious.

528
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 2: So, being that you had taken them recreationally before, what

529
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 2: was the difference between those and then, like, was there

530
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 2: a different track for you because you've had experience with

531
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 2: it before.

532
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I think the main difference is the

533
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: intention behind it. Right, So before I was like, let's

534
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: take some mushrooms and go to a concert, which is

535
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: very very fun, don't get me wrong, it's awesome, But

536
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: it's about setting an intention, you know, like why are

537
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,360
Speaker 1: you doing it? So this is a this was a medicine,

538
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: right Initially? Yeah, most things that we take started out

539
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: as some sort of medicine that we were used by

540
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: some sort of natives somewhere around the world. And then

541
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: you realize if you do a lot of it, it

542
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 1: makes you feel crazy. Of course, you know, it's college schedule.

543
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: Like if I take a lot more, then it's even crazier, right,

544
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: And then you take too many and you're like okay,

545
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: that was. But when you go into it with the

546
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: intention of self discovery and helping yourself and learning yourself,

547
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 1: especially when you are listening to this playlist, and especially

548
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: when you have an imask on, because so much of

549
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: it can be visual, and you're distracted by the visual

550
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: side of things, and it's really fun, it's cool, it's wacky.

551
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: But when you don't have those things distracting you, you

552
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: become so focused internally that you put like a microscope

553
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: on your life. And there is a side to it

554
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: that you do. I have read because of Michael Polla

555
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: and How to Change Your Mind book, but it does

556
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: actually rewire your brain. There's a thing called neuroplasticity. Our

557
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: brains are ever changing. It slows down as we get older.

558
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: You know, when you're a teenager or a young kid.

559
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: I have eighteen month old friends at home. I mean,

560
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: the neuroplasticity thing is going hate like haywire. Whereas when

561
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: you're older it does slow down. However, it doesn't stop

562
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: until you die. Well, when you do psilocybin, it almost

563
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: brings you back to being a child again in the

564
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: amount of change that your brain can make. And that

565
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: is the moment when you go in with that intention

566
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: of wanting to fix yourself or help yourself learn about yourself.

567
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: Your brain is pliable in that moment. When you do therapy,

568
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,719
Speaker 1: and I have done tons of therapy, it takes a

569
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: long long time to really notice a result. I recommend

570
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: it to anyone. It's very good for you. It's good

571
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: to talk about it. But we're talking about things at

572
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: a subconscious level. Consciously, we could go consciously, our parents

573
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: would go, just don't be anxious. Well, yeah, consciously, that

574
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: makes sense. We're talking about things at a subconscious level. Then,

575
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: you know, the lizard brain whatever you want to call it, mushrooms,

576
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: gets right to that part of your brain and goes,

577
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: all right, let's get to work. Fix, let's fix some stuff,

578
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: let's learn some stuff. And it's like doing ten years

579
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: of therapy in.

580
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 5: About six hours. You look and word.

581
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: If you look out word again, it's fun. Colors, colors, man,

582
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: it's beautiful, you're in space, it's awesome. But if you

583
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: look inWORD, there's a lot of work that you can

584
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: get done, and it's very intense, and that type of

585
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 1: work shouldn't just be a walk in the park. But

586
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: the results are profound.

587
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 4: I like how you put that, because I don't think

588
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,959
Speaker 4: I've ever heard anybody express it that like clearly. Like

589
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 4: we were saying earlier, people be like, well, you took

590
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 4: mushrooms before, you took them again and now all of

591
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 4: a sudden, But it sounds like you went in with intention.

592
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 4: Plus you were coming out of the therapy, so you

593
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 4: had a new set of tools and things take in there.

594
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,959
Speaker 4: Most people you hear about people micro doos and that's

595
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 4: kind of the.

596
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: New microdos, and I do microdose, you know frequently. Microdosing

597
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: is different. It's kind of I'm guessing what would be

598
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: like a macro doose, but slowly over time, doing a

599
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: macrodos is just like you know, a microdose would be.

600
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 5: Like you have a house, right and.

601
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: You're like, you know, I'm gonna it's kind of painting

602
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: this wall a little bit dirty. You know, maybe after

603
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: a couple of years of that, your house certainly looked different,

604
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: new fresh. What I'm doing a big heroes doing five

605
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: grams is are going in there with such hand, right,

606
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna ship.

607
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a lot of work, makeover.

608
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: Makeover, and we're going to get in there and we

609
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: are going and We're going to do it, you know,

610
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be work, and but by the end

611
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: of it, I'm going to have a beautiful home that's

612
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: just like, you know, it's no different than the home

613
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: that I've had my whole life.

614
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 5: It's just tidy.

615
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it's just going through your house

616
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: and cleaning everything up. Man, It's just it becomes so

617
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: much more bearable. It should be treated as a medicine.

618
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: That's really what it was intended for, you know, it

619
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: should be treated as a medicine. I would venture to

620
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: say most drugs that we take were initially used medicinally.

621
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: We just decided to take more and see what happens.

622
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 2: Right, And you look at like you said, our efficacy,

623
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: like if antidepressants are boosting euro up like two percent

624
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 2: based upon PLACEA, I was like, it's very simar actually

625
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 2: what I do in like criminal justice system, It's like,

626
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 2: what is the c that you're defending that makes people

627
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: fail like seven out of ten time really getting rearrested.

628
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: You're saying this is success, Like it's very similar.

629
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, you know, it is.

630
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: Quite frustrating, you know, especially from my own perspective. Granted,

631
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: I'm one guy, you know, so it seems anecdotal, but

632
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: the more you start peeling it back, you realize that

633
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: there are a lot of similar stories to me. Yeah,

634
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: you know, I had my dad sit in this very

635
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: room on that couch over there about a year and

636
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: a half ago, and he did it like we need

637
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: because it gives you this is the work that we

638
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: need to be doing. So my dad was a little

639
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: bit skeptical, because I think anyone should be a little

640
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: skeptical because it's not necessarily a walk in the park,

641
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: but it shouldn't be like. It can be really fun,

642
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: but it can also be really scary because you're confronting

643
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: a lot of things about your subconscious that you ignore

644
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: on a daily basis. And my dad has a lot

645
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: of childhood trauma. His childhood was very, very tricky. But

646
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: he's a lovely man, works really hard, he's provided for

647
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: the kids, but he carries a lot of things that

648
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: really I think he struggles with to this day. And

649
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: I just after doing this trip, and my dad was

650
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: a hippie, you know, kind of a culture hippie, spoke weed,

651
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: He's on all the drugs, but he was a little

652
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: bit like nervous. The more I talked about it. After

653
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: my first experience, I see like his eyes get really curious.

654
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: And he did it, and I felt he was a

655
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: lot lighter on his feet the next day, and in

656
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: weeks went by and he's like, I'm still kind of

657
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: figuring it out, like you know, you can't. It's almost

658
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: like learning a truth. It's not a bad truth, it's

659
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: not a good truth. It's just a truth that you

660
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: didn't know existed your whole life, and you have got

661
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: to process that. And I think he's still processing it

662
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: to this day. And it was a beautiful thing and

663
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: I saw it change his life. And since then, I've

664
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: had a ton of friends do it. My wife has

665
00:31:50,280 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: done it, and I've seen some just amazing effects. I'm

666
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: just I'm very thankful for for mushrooms. I hadn't even

667
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: calling it a drug, you know, again, being a child,

668
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: a child of the DARE program, it's just like there

669
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: was just like drugs and then there's just aren't. Then

670
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: there aren't drugs. That's just so true. That's just the drugs,

671
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: you know, so.

672
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 4: Off the top of a building and the street, you always.

673
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: Killed yourself, you always, you know, And I'd see one

674
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 2: kid jump off a building once. I thought I was

675
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 2: gonna die from you, like, jumping off a building or

676
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: quicksand yeah, like a lot of people die from quick

677
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 2: sand and.

678
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 4: People up building was running from the cops, Like that's

679
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 4: the only time.

680
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: I know, man, It's it was definitely a weird thing.

681
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 5: You know.

682
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: There's this stigma against it, you know, which is why

683
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: I'm quite open. Was why I'm doing this podcast with y'all,

684
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: and I'm very open about it. I'm open about my

685
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: mental health. I want to stigmatize one mental health, especially

686
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: for men, something that we have a harder time talking

687
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: about because of our society, you know, in the way

688
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: that we might have been brought up culturally. But I

689
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: also want to do stigmatize psilocybin in particular. You know,

690
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: Like I'm glad that you are in You're in reform

691
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: because we need to do those things that, like, our

692
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: criminal justice system is pretty fucked up and it puts

693
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: people in the cross hairs, a lot of good people

694
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: in the crossairs for wrong reasons. But we're looking at

695
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: something that could profoundly change people's lives. It has profoundly

696
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: changed my life, my wife's life, my dad's wife, all

697
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: of my friends around me that have done it, like

698
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: I have seen it with my own fucking eyes, you know.

699
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: And this is a guy that has taken SSRIs and

700
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: knows that, Like, yeah, I can be helpful, but I

701
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: wouldn't recommend it to everyone. Hell, the first SSRI took,

702
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of it, but that made

703
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: me want to kill myself more like I was coming unglued,

704
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: like I was scared for my life.

705
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's multiple lexturally it can increase suicide initially, and yeah,

706
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 2: to give that any it was crazy. I felt like

707
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 2: I was going fucking nuts, man. And I know what

708
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: it has helped people, but god damn it, Like you

709
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 2: are prescribing that. I was prescribed that by a doctor.

710
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: And I like our FDA can approve like any more

711
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 1: studies on psilocybin like studies, I'm just like, what kind

712
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 1: of backwards world are we living in here?

713
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 5: Interesting?

714
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: So, you know, I'm grateful that you guys asked me

715
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: to be a part of this because I want to

716
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: be one of the people.

717
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 5: It's gonna take an army.

718
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: It's gonna take y'all and other people talking about it

719
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: to kind of change the just the stigma and the

720
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: conversation around it, you know, I mean, and I know

721
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: I've friends that passed away from fentanyl a few years

722
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: ago because here is back at work, he got on

723
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: some painkillers, pain they quick prescribe pain killers, end up

724
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: doing heroin, heroin, this fentel and at the end, and

725
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: that story is very common, very very common to I

726
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 1: know people that won't do smoke pot. Like my friend's

727
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: dad just was diagnosed to stage for pacreatic cancer. You

728
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: won't smoke pot because of the stigma around pot. He's like, Dad,

729
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: it could help you your appetite and it can help

730
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: pick pain away and give you some comments like I'm

731
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: not going to do it because it's drugs.

732
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 5: You know.

733
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: Like this whole thing is so fucking backwards and fucked

734
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: up that we need to be talking about it. We

735
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: need to make part of the conversation because people's lives

736
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: and livelihoods are at stake. People are in jail, people

737
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: are dying all of these things because we have this

738
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: misunderstanding of what this quote unquote drug thing is.

739
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 4: And then also I think so much stuff like the

740
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 4: older people, I think just it's illegal. That's a lot

741
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 4: of the old people's argue. That's like, of course we

742
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 4: got the stigma of drugs. You go, it would kill you.

743
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 4: But a lot of them, like my mom was like,

744
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 4: well if it wasn't illegal, and I'm like, I'm in California,

745
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 4: it's legal here.

746
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 1: Try I know, I know, and it is really funny.

747
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it because it's legal. But

748
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: a lot of those things, people are like, why don't

749
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: trust the government because they give money to these people and.

750
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 5: Make up your mind?

751
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: Man, yeah, pick aln And it's like, you know, just

752
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: be educated about it. And that's the thing about drugs

753
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: in general. I mean we try to generalize everything, and

754
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: then what happens. People end up in jail. People miss

755
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: opportunities to treat themselves with certain drugs like cannabis or whatever,

756
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: and people miss opportunities to take care of themselves like

757
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: I did with psilocybin.

758
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 5: And I mean, who knows.

759
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: If I kept going down the path that I was going,

760
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: I could have killed myself. I was standing at the

761
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: edge of the cliff, not physically but psychologically, and I

762
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: was staring under the abyss and I was like, I

763
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: think I might try it. I didn't, fortunately, and I

764
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: do attribute a lot of that to my experience that

765
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: six hours of my psilocybin treatment. It's still to this day,

766
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: I go back there when I have to, and it's

767
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: just one of the most profound lessons ever. And until

768
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: we get people talking about this, it'll, unfortunately, I think,

769
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: just stay that way.

770
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 5: Yeah.

771
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: No, it's it is the normalizing, it's the abvoscy. It's

772
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 2: showing that hey, I'm in X situation in this. I

773
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 2: know in Kentucky for example, like Dakota Meyer is a

774
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 2: Medal of Honor recipient and he's former military's like, I've

775
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 2: lost more people here to addiction than I ever did

776
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: in Fallouja or my tours. And so that's profound and

777
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 2: that's impactful. If he doesn't talk, maybe certain lawmakers don't

778
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 2: listen very least.

779
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 3: It is not a past.

780
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 5: It's to one of the guys that went to DC.

781
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 2: He's been a here and done a lot of advocacy

782
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 2: on Yeah, he's been outside the White House front.

783
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

784
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm the only living Medal of Honor recipients ever.

785
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 5: Yeah.

786
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I remember I heard that an interview

787
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: about that guy, and we need more people like him.

788
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's the best place to start, you know,

789
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: start with our troops, like they have sacrificed so much

790
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: and they are given so little when they get back

791
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 1: and they are left to just pick up the pieces

792
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: on their own. I mean, do anything that it takes

793
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,919
Speaker 1: to make this man feel better or woman feel better,

794
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: because they deserve it more than anyone, you know. And

795
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: why will we take that opportunity from these people?

796
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 4: You know?

797
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 5: John? Awesome? Yeah, thank you.

798
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 2: Is there any foundations, organizations, or anything that you'd like

799
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 2: to advocate for reach out? Like, Hey, I'm really interested

800
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 2: in hearing about John, and maybe this is right for

801
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 2: me if they're a listener, Like where would you recommend

802
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 2: people kind of start or you know, anything that.

803
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 5: You absolutely well.

804
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: I will say first and foremost, if you deal with anxiety,

805
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: just know that it's it's a normal thing. I'm saying

806
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: the things that I wish I I someone told me

807
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,760
Speaker 1: when I was going through it that it's a normal

808
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: thing that's meant to keep you alive. It's your brain

809
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: thinking that it's doing something good for you. So don't

810
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: give yourself two hard a time about it. If you

811
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: need help, get help, if you need to take SSRIs

812
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 1: or any type of end to press and present. Take them.

813
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: And if you want to experiment with any type of

814
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: psilocybin or psychedelic journey, there are a million videos. I mean,

815
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: just go go to YouTube type of Michael polland mushrooms

816
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: and just watch every video.

817
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 5: That dude is a fucking rock star.

818
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: In my opinion, he's amazing, and he will make you

819
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: feel so calm about it, and just like, be patient,

820
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 1: give yourself time, you know.

821
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 5: I you know, if you want to.

822
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: Look into MAPS, which is the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies,

823
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: that's something that has done a lot of work and

824
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 1: that's really phenomenal. And you know, again from a from

825
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: a mental health perspective, just be patient and treat yourself

826
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: with love, treat yourself like you would treat any person

827
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: that you love, and you know, everything will be fine.

828
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: And if you want to take some mushrooms, shit and change.

829
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, But John, I think particularly like coming

830
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 2: from where I covering you a big group of friends,

831
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 2: I did too like talking about these things in these

832
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 2: types of very much show you know, industries and things

833
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 2: like that.

834
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 3: I think it's so helpful and so thank you. What

835
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 3: you're doing.

836
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 2: I know that there's a lot of people that are

837
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 2: probably huge country music fans, huge fans of you, that

838
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 2: have never heard that before.

839
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: And it all starts with it's got to enter the consciousness.

840
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 1: It's got to enter the narrative. We've got to talk

841
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: about it. More you talk about something, the less it

842
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: stigmatizes it. More you talk about psilocybin therapy, the less

843
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: it stigmatizes it. More you talk about mental health. Every

844
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: time I bring it up, especially around a bunch of dudes,

845
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: I have never once, never once felt judgment. It's always

846
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: been intrigue and I always they'll always go, hey, I

847
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: struggle with that too. I don't talk about it, and

848
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: then they start unload andy, start asking me questions or

849
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: my brother has got really bad anxiety, can you help

850
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: me there? So people, it's like this unwritten rule that

851
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: we're not supposed to talk about it, but really everyone

852
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: wants to talk about So the more we discuss it,

853
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 1: the more it becomes part of the guys, I think

854
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 1: the better.

855
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 4: Totally agree.

856
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a great note to close on.

857
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 2: Ye John thinks so with some brothers Osborne, they're bringing

858
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 2: awesome Yeah.

859
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 5: Thank you again. Thank you, Thank you so much.

860
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 4: That was awesome. John Osborne Man was a great interview.

861
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 4: Good interview man. I like, I liked what he was

862
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 4: talking about. I like how he was able to find

863
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 4: his way out the situation he was in and also

864
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 4: pull others out. Yeah, reach out to friends who were

865
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 4: having suicidal thoughts.

866
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: I mean, like, hey, if this works for me, maybe

867
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 2: think about this for you.

868
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 4: And even to his dad, you know, at that age.

869
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 4: And yeah, so I.

870
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 2: Hear so many more stories about that, Like I don't

871
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 2: think like five years ago, I was sitting around with

872
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: friends being like and they were like, oh yeah, I

873
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 2: was getting my mom a gummy to help with.

874
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 3: Her you know, sleep or with you know whatever.

875
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 2: But you're hearing those conversations like a little bit here

876
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 2: and there like oh yeah, my my mom or my

877
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 2: like I gave to my sister, Like because people are

878
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 2: starting to hear like these stories more and more from

879
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 2: people like hey, this had a profound impact on my life.

880
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm not a doctor or anything, but

881
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 2: I know, you know, when we're looking at kind of

882
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 2: what works and what doesn't. If you know, SSRIs and

883
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 2: other antidosins and traditional methods of dealing with depression and

884
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: PTSD and all these things aren't effective for you because

885
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:28,280
Speaker 2: the data shows like it's effective.

886
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 3: For some and not for others.

887
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 2: You're screwed, like you're So we need to give other

888
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 2: options like this for people, particularly when we've seen, you know,

889
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 2: a psilocybin research has come in the largest phase two

890
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: trial suggests that a twenty five milligram dose of psilocybin

891
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 2: with psychotherapy before and after the dosing was associated with

892
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: a rapid and sustained antidepressant effect measured by a change

893
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 2: and depress the symptoms scores. And so that's from a

894
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 2: JAMA study. And there's there's other ones on psychedelics showing

895
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 2: strong therapeutic effects with other ones either at being ayahuasca

896
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 2: or MDMA or in particular psilocybin as we've seen, and

897
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 2: that's really profound. And all we're saying is that these

898
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 2: should be open to discuss with medical professionals and are

899
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 2: these the right things for you? Because we've seen the

900
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 2: problems that mental health and drug addiction can bring and

901
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 2: those go hand in hand so often, and it's kind

902
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 2: of the chicken and the egg thing where the depression

903
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 2: comes and then does the substance. You know, it all

904
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,479
Speaker 2: kind of builds off each other when it came first,

905
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 2: and they're all kind of bad and they.

906
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 4: Fuel each other.

907
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 5: Yeah.

908
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 4: And I also think, you know, a lot of times

909
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 4: I don't hear people talk about psychedelics, yeah, in the

910
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 4: way that he did, like, and I think that's most

911
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 4: people's understanding is you use them for fun, and you

912
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 4: use it to but it can be a tool that

913
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 4: can actually be beneficial.

914
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 5: Yeah.

915
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 2: And I think like his shift in like his understanding

916
00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: of it, because it was, like you said, it was

917
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: like these aren't for things for like medicinal you know,

918
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 2: these are parties or whatever. And his shift and understanding

919
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 2: of like their purposes and maybe what they're able to do.

920
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 2: It almost feels like how our culture and society is.

921
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 2: Like I think we are starting to see that shift

922
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: of like frankly, in public policy, it's for me a

923
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:22,439
Speaker 2: lot easier to talk to people now about psilocybin and

924
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 2: these therapeutics, and it is about cannabis in a lot

925
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 2: of ways because they think of like the recreational aspect

926
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 2: of cannabis and there's you know, a scent factor. It's

927
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 2: very open, but there is actually a much more. I

928
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 2: think openness to some of this stuff at like a

929
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: more local level, and even with people that you might

930
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 2: not think, like Kentucky is like really trying to do

931
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 2: some stuff like this, and it's being led by like

932
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 2: you know, you know, Republican lawmakers and Democrats are coming.

933
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 2: So it's like strange bedfellows are all come this realization

934
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 2: about that. The veteran community has been really big on it.

935
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 2: So it's actually like in a way, because the medicinal

936
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: values are so clear cut and you're able to show

937
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 2: these things with this, it's like I have PTSD and

938
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: now I do not. I think that's just easier for

939
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 2: people to get their head around. So it's been it's

940
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 2: been an easier process right now.

941
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I can also see that. I guess maybe

942
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 4: because people don't believe weed smokers. You know, like you're

943
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 4: saying it helps with pain. No, you're not. You just

944
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,439
Speaker 4: like to get that's always gonna be the underlying thing.

945
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 4: I think with weed smokers. You're saying, you're saying it

946
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 4: does this. You're saying, so, yeah, that's that's funny. You

947
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,280
Speaker 4: say that that people are more accepting to the psychedelics.

948
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 3: There really are.

949
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, seeing this and seeing more people and kind of

950
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 2: those strange bedfellows of folks being like, hey, this actually

951
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: is beneficial, it's actually been.

952
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 3: I'd rather go in.

953
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,240
Speaker 2: I think it's gonna be a It's a less confrontational

954
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 2: discussion talking about psilocybin than it is with cannabis.

955
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 4: Of this platt So that's great.

956
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 3: Easing to think about.

957
00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 2: But it's also to think about the way we talk

958
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 2: about cannabis and policy and discussions like there does need

959
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 2: to be a little bit more I think professionalism and

960
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 2: professionalization about like discussions, yeah, because it is kind of

961
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 2: led by hippies sometimes yeah, yeah.

962
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 4: And also the you know, like you just kind of said,

963
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 4: people went in trying to get the prescriptions, so people

964
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 4: don't trust weed smokers all the way, you know, and

965
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 4: the face that they have of weed smokers is counterculture,

966
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 4: the link when youth, things like that, and if you

967
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 4: can have the face of psilocybin being our veterans, are

968
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 4: people who are PTSD, are people who have anxiety and

969
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 4: they're able to come out of that. I think everybody's

970
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 4: affected by those things, you know. I think people can

971
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 4: kind of like zero in on what they don't like

972
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 4: about weed without looking at what it can benefit. And

973
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 4: it's harder to do that with psilocybin because I think

974
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 4: more people aren't as familiar with it.

975
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 2: I think you're totally right, and that's what kind of

976
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 2: brings it out.

977
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 3: So we'll see, you know.

978
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 2: But again, you know, like things with like the opioid epidemic,

979
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 2: you've seen how like things like iba gain it's a

980
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: shrub that you know, we talked to most ethorts about

981
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 2: that that you know significantly reduces you know, opiate you know,

982
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 2: withdrawals and symptoms and wanting to go back to it

983
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:17,959
Speaker 2: and all these things.

984
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 4: And there's also things that have been there. These are things.

985
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 4: Psilocybin has been here. The mushrooms have been there, I

986
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 4: be again has been there.

987
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 2: You can pluck a mushroom and pop it like and

988
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 2: that's you don't have to still it.

989
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 4: Yet don't because I don't know, I mean, unless you've

990
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 4: got a field guide to mushrooms and then still probably don't.

991
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 4: But yeah, a lot of natural things, like like you said,

992
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 4: we've been so dependent on the pharmaceuticals and farm and

993
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 4: that I think it's probably even more stuff that we've

994
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 4: forgotten about.

995
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 2: Sure, probably agree now, and thanks again John Osborne. Absolutely, Yeah,

996
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 2: this has been an amazing interview. And next week I

997
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 2: was on the road solo for this next interview.

998
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 4: Oh yeah yeah.

999
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 2: Riley Coote, who if anyone watch hockey, he is the

1000
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 2: He was like the enforcer, bruiser guy. He was the

1001
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 2: one getting into fights for the flyers in the It

1002
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 2: was mid early two thousand when I was in like college.

1003
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Philly guy. Yeah, Rossey bullies.

1004
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like being he was the guy that was

1005
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 2: like the bully, and so he talks about that, and

1006
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: you know, it's awesome when you're like twenty one and

1007
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 2: you're watching him fist by and then you get older

1008
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 2: and you start learning bout stuff. It's like, oh, I'd

1009
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 2: be really interested to hear about like what that looks like.

1010
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 2: And he has such an amazing perspective because he had

1011
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 2: to be this tough, mating guy that just took so

1012
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 2: much trauma and then you don't think about day and

1013
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 2: day out, waking up like I gotta go fight the

1014
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 2: end today, like that's it's.

1015
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 3: Gotta be pain.

1016
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 2: And he just talks about the physical mental toll. It's

1017
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 2: such an amazing interview to kind of hear that and

1018
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 2: where he's at right now, and how a lot of

1019
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 2: the therapies that we've already talked about today with like John,

1020
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 2: you know, some of his experience and stories to share.

1021
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 3: So really great interview.

1022
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 2: You can't wait for y'all to hear it.

1023
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 3: Until next time.

1024
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 5: I'm Greg Glad in English.

1025
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 3: And that was the War on drugs.

1026
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, The War on Drugs is a production of Lava

1027
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 2: for Good and Stand Together Music and association with Signal

1028
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 2: Company Number one. Stand Together Music unites musicians and their

1029
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 2: teams with proven change makers to co create solutions to

1030
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 2: some of the most pressing issues in our country, including

1031
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 2: criminal justice, for foreign addiction recovery, mental health, education, free speech,

1032
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 2: and ending the War on drugs. Learn more at Standogether

1033
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,720
Speaker 2: Music dot org. Be sure to follow Lava for Good

1034
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 2: on Instagram, Facebook and threads at Lava for Good. You

1035
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,720
Speaker 2: can follow Clayton English on Instagram, n X at Clayton English,

1036
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 2: and you can follow Greg Laude on Instagram and on

1037
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 2: X at Greg Latt. Executive producers Jason Flamm, Jeff Kempler,

1038
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: Kevin Wardis, and Collette Wintraub. Senior producers Kelsey Stenecker, Zak

1039
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: Huffman and Nick Stump. Post production by ten ten, Audio

1040
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 2: talent booking by Dan Resnick. Rez Entertainment Head of Marketing

1041
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: and Operations Jeff Clive, Social media director Ismati Gaudarrama, Social

1042
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 2: media manager Sarah Gibbons, and art director Andrew Nelson,