1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. So this episode started 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: out a very different episode than it ended up. Originally. 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: I was like, Hey, Tracy, I'm going to cover the 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: history of divorce. And I said that sounds really cool 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: but also really big. Yeah. I don't know what I said, 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: And I had a lot of coffee that day. I 9 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: got real excited, but that obviously became immediately too hard 10 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: to wrangle. The hard part for me was all of 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: the different countries of the world have had different histories 12 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 1: of divorce, and so yeah, to really do a comprehensive 13 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: look at it was not tenable. Yeah, And the reason 14 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: I said that sound really cool is like I had 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: just read an article about the history of the idea 16 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: of no fault divorce, and so I was curious to 17 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: learn more. I'm not saying that I think divorce is 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: like a fun party time. No, what I'm met by cool. No. 19 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: I had told one of my friends that I was 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: doing an episode on the history of divorce. It's like everything, okay, 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: It's like yeah, and really it came up on our 22 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: recent episode on augustin Daily Where because he had written 23 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: a play called Divorce where he examined the idea of it, 24 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,279 Speaker 1: and I was like, Oh, that is an interesting topic. 25 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: I wonder I wonder how that's been discussed through the years. 26 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: So then when I realized too big, I was like, Oh, 27 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: what I could do is talk about several different divorces 28 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: in history, the way we might do as six impossible 29 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: episodes or like one of our eponymous foods. And I 30 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: started writing about this one and then I had only 31 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: written about half of it, and I had a whole episode. 32 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: So this is not only only about one divorce sort 33 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: of sort of, it's not really about a divorce because 34 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 1: it doesn't work out spoiler alert, but it it became 35 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: a two parter. So we're talking today about Caroline Sheridan Norton. 36 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: It is a case of a woman who advocated for 37 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: rights for women in the UK and ultimately helped get 38 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: laws passed to give more rights to women in marriages 39 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: and in the dissolution of marriages. She married the absolutely 40 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: wrong man and though she tried to make the best 41 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: of her situation, over time that relationship became something really 42 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: horrible that she had to escape. So heads up one. 43 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: I feel like it's obvious, but we'll just say at 44 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: the top this is obviously about like heterosexual old school marriages. 45 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: It's not comprehensive of the marriage experience. It is this 46 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: thing going on in the eighteen hundreds in Britain. Also, 47 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: this includes discussion of domestic violence through Caroline's account, and 48 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: some of it, even though it is in the more 49 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: formal writing of the day, is quite and very upsetting. 50 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: One of them results in a miscarriage. And we're including 51 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: these accounts here not just to be click baity for 52 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: lack of a better word, not to be sensational, but 53 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: because it really shows how completely dangerous a woman's life 54 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: could be, even with a man who was allegedly respectable, 55 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: and how the law offered no help of any kind, 56 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: like you were just supposed to accept it and that 57 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: was your law in life. So if that is something 58 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: that will cause you distress to hear about, skip right 59 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: over this one. I will say in the second part 60 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: of this, the second episode that we're doing with this 61 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: two part episode, we don't really have those We have 62 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: some horrible behavior, but not so much physical violence, just 63 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: fyi so. Caroline Sheridan was born on March twenty second, 64 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: eighteen o eight. Her father was Thomas Sheridan, a colonial 65 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: officer and the son of Richard Brinsley Sheridan, the playwright 66 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: who had penned the School for Scandal. Her mother was 67 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: Caroline Henrietta Calendar Sheridan. Caroline was the middle sibling of 68 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: three sisters. Her older sister was Helen, and her younger 69 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: sister was Georgiana. When Caroline was eight, her father died 70 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: while he was overseas, and this led to her living 71 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: for a time with her uncle, Charles Sheridan, who, like 72 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: her grandfather, was a writer, and this time living in 73 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: her uncle's home really influenced Caroline to want to follow 74 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: in the family tradition of writing. When she was eleven, 75 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: she wrote this journal entry that she was resolved to 76 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: write her own long poem. She was a smart, but 77 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: sometimes rather precocious child, often described as quote high spirited. 78 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: She was very quick witted, but that appears to have 79 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: been in some case a little bit of a defense mechanism. 80 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: Her family described her as actually being quite shy. Helen, Caroline, 81 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: and Georgiana were nicknamed the Three graces, and they were 82 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: very popular in London society in the eighteen twenties because 83 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: of Thomas's early death. Though the family was not wealthy, 84 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: it was considered imperative that all three of the Sheridan's sisters, 85 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: Mary and Mary Well Helen, the oldest, became the wife 86 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: of Captain Price Blackwood. That was a match that was 87 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: more about practicality than passionate love, although the two of 88 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: them are said to have developed a pretty happy and 89 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: loving marriage. Georgiana was the youngest sister and also considered 90 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: the prettiest, which meant that she had a lot of suitors, 91 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: but according to the customs of the time, she could 92 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: not accept any of them until the middle sister, Caroline, 93 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: had gotten married. But although Caroline was very charming and 94 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: very witty and people really liked her, there were not 95 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: a lot of men lining up to court her let 96 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: alone to propose. The only one was George Chapel Norton, 97 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: and he was, as far as the Sheridan family knew, 98 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: from a good family with a regular income. Though he 99 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: was a barrister by training, he didn't really work in 100 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: that field, or really much of any field. He did 101 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: hold a government office, but he mostly lived off of 102 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 1: income from his family money, and with some reluctance, Caroline 103 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: eventually accepted his marriage proposal, largely to make way for 104 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: her younger sister, Georgiana to make her match. But to 105 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,119 Speaker 1: be very clear, she was only sixteen at the time. 106 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: Her mother, who really made this decision, did stipulate that 107 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: the marriage would not take place for three years, so 108 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: this is an interesting point of debate among historians. Caroline 109 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: had barely remembered meeting George Norton. They'd only briefly crossed 110 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: paths at a social event while she was in boarding 111 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: school at Shalford, so some have interpreted missus Sheridan's acceptance 112 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: of Norton's proposal on behalf of her daughter with this 113 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: included waiting period as maybe kind of a strategy to 114 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: assure Caroline's financial future, while also leaving a window of 115 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,119 Speaker 1: time in which maybe a more enthusiastic match could be made. 116 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: Caroline herself was worried that she would never marry, so 117 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: although she was not in the least bit enamored with Norton, 118 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 1: she definitely saw it as a safety measure. She later 119 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: wrote quote the only misfortune I ever particularly dreaded was 120 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: living and dying a lonely old maid. An old maid 121 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: is never anyone's first object. Therefore I object to that situation. 122 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: Obviously a very outdated mode of thinking. But all of 123 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: this is extra sad when you read other people's impressions 124 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: of Caroline, because she was, by all accounts a charmer, 125 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: and in all likelihood would have found another better option 126 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: in time. She became friends in her life with Mary Shelley, 127 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: who wrote of her quote, I never saw a woman 128 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: I thought so fascinating. Had I been a man, I 129 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: should certainly have fallen in love with her. I would 130 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: have been spellbound. And had she taken the trouble, she 131 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,679 Speaker 1: might have wound me round her finger. There is something 132 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: in the pretty way in which her witticisms glide, as 133 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: it were, from her lips that is charming. Caroline was 134 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: right to be hesitant. She and George were married in 135 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: eighteen twenty seven, when she was nineteen, and it was 136 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: a very bad match made on false pretenses. George did 137 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: not have an income from his family. He did not 138 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: have a town home or any home aside from his 139 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: barrister's chambers. But he was also not interested in working 140 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: so there really wasn't any money coming in. Additionally, the 141 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: personalities of the bride and the groom were deeply discordant. 142 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: While Caroline was known for her wit and outgoing personality, 143 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: George really lacked a sense of humor and was not 144 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: really inclined to conversation of much of any kind, not 145 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: with his wife, not with anyone else. So at a 146 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: time that should ideally be a honeymoon period for newlywed's, 147 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: George turned violent with Caroline. She later wrote, quote, we 148 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: had been married about two months when one evening or 149 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: we had all withdrawn to our apartments. We were discussing 150 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: some opinion mister Norton had expressed. I said that I 151 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: thought I had never heard so silly or ridiculous a conclusion. 152 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: This remark was punished by a sudden and violent kick. 153 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: The blow reached my side. It caused great pain for 154 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: several days, and being afraid to remain with him, I 155 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: sat up the whole night in another apartment. A few 156 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: months later, there was another incident after a party. Caroline 157 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: wrote that she had no reason to be angry with 158 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: her husband until they got home and he started to 159 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: badmouth one of her relatives that was a young woman 160 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: who was recently married and who had danced at the 161 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: ball that night. Norton thought that married women should not dance, 162 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: and he made a lot of quote coarse remarks about 163 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: the woman. When Caroline defended the woman in question, quote, 164 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: he suddenly sprang from the bed, seized me by the 165 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: nape of the neck, and dashed me down on the floor. 166 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: The sound of my fall woke my sister brother in law, 167 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: who slept in the room below, and they ran up 168 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: to the door. Mister Norton locked it and stood over me, 169 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: declaring no one should enter. I could not speak. I 170 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: only moaned. My brother in law burst the door open 171 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: and carried me downstairs. I had swelling on my head 172 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: for many days afterwards. So up to eighteen thirty, George 173 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: had been a Tory member of Parliament from Guilford. This 174 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: had long been another source of friction between the couple, 175 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: as Caroline was a Whig and wanted social reform, while 176 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: George was deeply conservative. But in eighteen thirty, so just 177 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: a couple years after they got married, Norton lost his 178 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: seat in the general election. And this is a moment 179 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,719 Speaker 1: where his self import becomes really apparent. As well as 180 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: a bit of delusion, because George was insistent that he 181 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: was actually the most popular candidate. He didn't claim that 182 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: the election was rigged, that the counts had been erroneous, 183 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: but he did claim that the people who voted against 184 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: him didn't want to and that it caused them great stress. 185 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 1: He said a whole thing about how they cried as 186 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: they cast votes against him. We'll talk about the friendship 187 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: of Caroline's that saved George's financial standing but also ultimately 188 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: led to a serious and scandalous legal battle, and we 189 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: will do that after we take a quick sponsor break. 190 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: Because of the financial strain the Nortons were living in, 191 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: Caroline started writing, hoping that her family name might help 192 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: her sell some of her work to support the household. 193 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: Her writing also offered her an escape from the unpleasant 194 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: day to day that was going on in her household. 195 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: Between the financial issues and the abuse, she had plenty 196 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: to want to escape from. Though he had indicated to 197 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: Caroline's family that he was able to financially support Caroline 198 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: and a family. After his election lost, George started and 199 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: almost immediately asking his new wife to use her influence 200 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: in society circles to get him an appointment somewhere that 201 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 1: would bring in an income, preferably with little or no 202 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: actual work. Caroline was completely embarrassed to be put in 203 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: this position to do such a thing, but she did it, 204 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: trading on her father's good name to reach out to 205 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: anyone who might be able to help with a position 206 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: that George would find acceptable. Enter Lord Melbourne. Yes, that 207 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: Lord Melbourne, William Lamb, second Viscount Melbourne, who became Prime 208 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: Minister of the UK an adviser to Queen Victoria. When 209 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: Melbourne received a letter from the granddaughter of his friend 210 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: Richard Sheridan asking about appointments for her husband, he went 211 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: and visited the Norton home and Melbourne and Caroline became 212 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: good friends, and George got that appointment he was after 213 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: he got a job earning a thousand pounds a year 214 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: serving as a magistrate in the Lambeth Division of the 215 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: Metropolitan Police Courts. This arrangement calmed the household down for 216 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: a little while. This relationship between Caroline and Melbourne would 217 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: become a central source of conflict in her life, and 218 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: opinions are still divided on the nature of that relationship. 219 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: For context, Melbourne was about thirty years older than Caroline, 220 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: and his wife, Caroline Lamb, had died in eighteen twenty eight, 221 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: So this has been interpreted by some historians as a 222 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: man who was interested in a younger woman, and by 223 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: others as a man enjoying a pretty fatherly relationship with 224 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: Caroline Norton. Melbourne definitely was drawn to Caroline's intellect and 225 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 1: her playful approach to life, something that seems remarkable giving 226 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: what her home life was like. The two of them 227 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: definitely adored one another. They had pet names for each other. 228 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: They wrote to one another about their dismay when their 229 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: schedules didn't give them time together. In the meantime, the 230 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: Nortons had had two children, both son Fletcher, was born 231 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: in eighteen twenty nine and Thomas Brinsley, who went by Brinsley, 232 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: was born in eighteen thirty one, and Caroline had really 233 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: gained some recognition and success with her writing. She published 234 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: several books of verse. In eighteen twenty nine alone titled 235 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: The Sorrows of Rosalie, I Do Not Love Thee and 236 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: the Cold Change, and the following year a book titled 237 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: The Undying One was successful enough that it garnered her 238 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: jobs editing two literary magazines, La Belle, Lassemble and The 239 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: Court Magazine. But as Caroline's literary reputation and her relationship 240 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: with Lord Melbourne grew, so did George's anger at her. 241 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: It's really impossible to know the cause and effect of 242 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: his irrationality, but there definitely seems to have been some 243 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: jealousy in the mix. Despite the rumors that Caroline and 244 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: Melbourne had a romantic relationship, initially, George didn't say anything 245 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: about it, probably because he didn't want to lose favor 246 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: with Melbourne. In eighteenth Caroline had the couple's third child. 247 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: This was another boy named William. While she was still pregnant, 248 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: George flew into a rage at her over what seemed 249 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: a mild exchange about where to sit at breakfast. Caroline 250 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: wrote about it this way quote On another occasion, sometime 251 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: before the birth of my youngest son, I being at 252 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: breakfast and my eldest child playing about the room, mister 253 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: Norton entered. He desired me to rise and leave the 254 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: place I was sitting in as it faced the park, 255 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: and it amused him to see the people pass by. 256 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: I demurred and said I was not well, and that 257 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: he should have come down earlier if he had any 258 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: fancy or choice about places. We had no other word 259 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: of dispute. Mister Norton then deliberately took the tea kettle 260 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: and set it down upon my hand. I started up 261 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: from the pain and was both burnt and scalded. I 262 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: ran up to the nursery, and the nurse got the 263 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: surgeon who lived next door to come in and dress 264 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: my hand, which remained bound up and useless for days. 265 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: When this was over, I inquired where mister Norton was, 266 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: and received for reply that after I had been hurt, 267 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: he had simply desired the servant to brush the crumbs 268 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: away in the place he had desired me to yield, 269 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: and then sat down there and breakfasted, and had since 270 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: gone out without one word of apology or inquiry. Later 271 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: in that year, there was another terrible incident at the 272 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: Norton home, and what set George off is not really known. 273 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: Caroline was pregnant with their fourth child at the time. 274 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: This had not inspired any kind of gentleness in her 275 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: abusive husband. Caroline became so afraid of George on this 276 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: occasion that she locked herself in the drawing room only 277 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: to have. George smashed the door down, taking the doorframe 278 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: with it. He attacked her. In a written account, it 279 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: is said that he quote man handled her down the stairs, 280 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: so it's not really clear if this is a stilted 281 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: way to say that he pushed her, or if he 282 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: was attacking her as she made her way down. Either way, 283 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: he was violent enough that the house staff had to 284 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 1: entervene and hold George back so that Caroline could get away. Sadly, 285 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: after this she had a miscarriage. But though George had 286 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: continued to be physically abusive, he hurt Caroline the most 287 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: desperately in eighteen thirty five, when he moved their three 288 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 1: sons out of the house. While Caroline was away visiting 289 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: her sister. George sent the boys to a woman he 290 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: knew named Miss Vaughan. Sometimes she's described as a relative 291 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: of George's. I was not entirely clear on that. Others 292 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: hint that she may have been a mistress, and I 293 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: didn't chase down that rabbit hole. But Miss Vaughan would 294 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: not let Caroline see the children. Naturally, the mother was 295 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: deeply distraught, and grew even more so when she discovered 296 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: that legally she had no rights in this matter whatsoever. George, 297 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: as her husband, was entitled to keep her children away 298 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: from her for as long as he wished, or until 299 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: they reached legal adulthood. They were still little kids at 300 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: this time. Caroline absolutely adored her children, so this was 301 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: an incredibly cruel act. To make matters worse. All of 302 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: the effort that Caroline had put into her writing career 303 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: only resulted in money for her husband. She could not 304 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: legally receive her own income. It all went to the 305 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: husband if a woman was married. She moved in with 306 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: her family in eighteen thirty five, but because she was 307 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 1: still married, George still controlled her financially. But Caroline's problems 308 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: with her husband were only beginning. She had moved out 309 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: of their home the same year that Lord Melbourne became 310 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: Prime Minister, and George saw this as an opportunity to 311 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: capitalize on her friend's new position by suing him for adultery, 312 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: claiming that the affair rumors about Caroline and Lord Melbourne 313 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: were true. George didn't actually go right to the legal action, though. 314 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: First she tried to blackmail Melbourne, offering to drop the 315 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: idea of a court case if the Prime Minister gave 316 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: him fourteen hundred pounds. Melbourne was having none of this 317 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: told him to go away, but George Norton talked about 318 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: the potential adultery case with other high level Tory politicians, 319 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: and soon there was a full scale smear campaign against 320 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,959 Speaker 1: Melbourne and an effort to undermine his political career. Norton 321 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: planted stories and Tory papers about his wife and the 322 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: Prime Minister. But George also went after Caroline at full 323 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: tilt in these efforts, planting stories that she had affairs 324 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: with a number of members of the Whig Party. Some 325 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: papers even printed stories that suggested that she and her 326 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: sisters were all involved in affairs with various men, all 327 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: of whom just happened to be Whigs. As this legal 328 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: action loomed in this whole scandal broke, Lord Melbourne distanced 329 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: himself from Caroline and offered to resign his position. King 330 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: William the Fourth, though refused to accept it, and soon 331 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: the plot to undermine the Prime Minister and the Whig 332 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: Party was revealed. William Best first Lord Winford, who was 333 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: a Tory who served as Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, 334 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: was found to have been in collusion with George Norton 335 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: to plan this entire smear campaign. This entire scandal was 336 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 1: denounced by politicians from both the Whig and Tory parties, 337 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: and it was considered a huge embarrassment for the Tories. 338 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: At this point. George's actions had resulted in Caroline not 339 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: only losing access to her sons, but it also cut 340 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: her off from the man who was her best friend. 341 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: Coming up, we'll talk about how this trial played out, 342 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: but first we will hear from the sponsors that keep 343 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: Stuffymith and history class going. Though the scheming on the 344 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: part of Lord Winford and George was revealed, Norton still 345 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: moved forward in his case against Melbourne, and he sought 346 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: ten thousand pounds in damages for the alleged adultery between 347 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: the politician and Caroline. George had several of the House 348 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: staff brought in to testify that there had been a 349 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: romance between Melbourne and Caroline, and even that Melbourne was 350 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: not the only man that Caroline had an affair with. 351 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: This testimony is gross. The descriptions offered up in court 352 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: by the House staff regarding Caroline's behavior are generally course. 353 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: They suggest a woman who seemed to have no care whatsoever, 354 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 1: that she might be seen in a completely inappropriate state 355 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: by her staff. Caroline was furious and mortified and wrote 356 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 1: that all such testimony was invention. It turned out that 357 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: George's brother, Lord Grantly, had been in contact with all 358 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: of the testifying house staff before the trial, and a 359 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: lot of people believe that he paid them to speak 360 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: out against Caroline. To modern ears, perhaps the strangest part 361 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: of George Norton's case hinged on three letters that Lord 362 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: Melbourne had written to Caroline. And these were not ardent 363 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: love letters far. These were extremely short. They mentioned only 364 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: the details of visits. And they're so brief that we 365 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: can read them all here very quickly. The first reads 366 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: and its entirety quote I will call about half past four. 367 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: The second has three short sentences quote how are you. 368 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: I shall not be able to come today, I shall tomorrow. 369 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: And the third has four fragmented sentences, quote no house today. 370 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: I will call after the levee. If you wish it later, 371 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: let me know. I will then explain about going to Vauxhall. 372 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: The case is made by Norton's counsel that these were 373 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: evidence of a deep level of familiarity and affection for 374 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: the simple reason that they contained no formal greeting or 375 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 1: sign off. This is the weirdest part to me, because 376 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 1: there are letters where they are very very affectionate with 377 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: one another and they didn't use those, and it's so weird, 378 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: and I don't know if they didn't have access to 379 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: them or what, but it's a really strange way to 380 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: make a defense. And though Norton and his lawyers showed 381 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: up with a lot of claims of evidence, this entire 382 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 1: thing was perceived by the jury as complete nonsense and 383 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: a cash grab, and they asked that the case be 384 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: thrown out without even needing to hear any of the defense, 385 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: and the entire business was concluded in a single day 386 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: June thirteenth, eighteen thirty six. This was technically a legal 387 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: victory for Caroline. Really it was for Melbourne because the 388 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: case was between Norton and Melbourne, but the whole thing 389 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: really hurt Caroline. Melbourne refused to continue their friendship and 390 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: she grieved that loss very deeply, and in society circles, 391 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: even though she was found to have done no wrongdoing, 392 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: her reputation was completely destroyed, and even though she had 393 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: been legally cleared of any adulterous behavior. She was still 394 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: seen as a scandalous figure, and far worse, she had 395 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: no recourse whatsoever to see Fletcher, Brinsley and William. She 396 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: thought she would be granted access to them when the 397 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: trial was over, but discovered that even after that, the 398 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: law still gave George exclusive rights to determine the children's care. 399 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: And these kids were young. They were six, four and two. 400 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: They were in their very formative stages and probably just 401 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: missed their mother. George eventually said that she could have 402 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: brief visits with them only in his lawyer's office. She 403 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,719 Speaker 1: later wrote, quote what I suffered on my children's account 404 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: none will ever know or measure. Mister Norton held my 405 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: children as hostages. He felt that while he had them, 406 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: he still had power over me that nothing could control. 407 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: She even attempted to get Lord Melbourne involved, although he 408 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: continued to maintain a complete separation from her in all matters. 409 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: So Caroline used her writing to advocate for a change 410 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: in the law. In her first pamphlet on the subject 411 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: of child custody, titled Observations on the Natural Claim of 412 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: a Mother to the Custody of her Children as affected 413 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: by the Common law right of the father. She made 414 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: the case that because the law gave out absolute rights 415 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: to the father slash husband, it didn't offer any protection 416 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: for the children in the event that person was unfit 417 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: and neglectful, etc. It also allowed for a father to 418 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: give his children to anyone he chose for care, with 419 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: no provisions about that person's ability or behaviors. She actually 420 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: makes the case here that a man could take his 421 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: wife's children and just give them to his mistress. This 422 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: is part of that whole question mark around the woman 423 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: that he handed the kids over to. This was very significant. 424 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: Although Caroline's reputation had suffered, she was still recognized as 425 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: a woman of society and she was very respected as 426 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: a writer. So for her to speak out about the 427 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: failings of family laws it was a pretty big deal. 428 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: And not only did she speak out against it, she 429 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: worked really hard to try to have it changed. Though 430 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: Caroline was personally negatively affected by the existing laws, some 431 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: lawmakers had also recognized that there was a flaw in 432 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: the system that enabled adulterous husband to keep their children, 433 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,719 Speaker 1: while women who had done nothing wrong could be barred 434 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: from seeing their children if the husbands so chose. There 435 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,239 Speaker 1: were other cases on the books where things just like 436 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: that had happened, and Caroline appealed to one of the 437 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: members of Parliament who had seen such cases unfold. That 438 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: was Sir Thomas Telford. Telford could be an episode all 439 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: on his own, and perhaps will at some point, but 440 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: he's important to Caroline's story because he agreed to introduce 441 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 1: a bill that would allow women in her specific position, 442 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: which was mother's accused of and cleared of the charge 443 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: of adultery, to take custody of any children under seven 444 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: years of age. There was also a provision for the 445 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: mother to have access to children older than that. The 446 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: idea here was that it would be easier to argue 447 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: the case for younger children who needed more care, and 448 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: Telford made that case well. The House of Commons passed 449 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: the bill in the spring of eighteen thirty eight, though 450 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 1: only a small fraction of the House was in attendance 451 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: to vote. Among those who were there, the vote was 452 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: heavily skewed in favor of changes to the existing law, 453 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: but once it passed to the House of Lords, it 454 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: failed by a measly two votes. Part of the problem 455 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: was Telford's association with Caroline and the press dragged her 456 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: through the coals, again, calling her names and insinuating that 457 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: there was something sexual going on between her and Telford. 458 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: And this all really reflects the sort of scorn a 459 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 1: woman would get, even if she was found innocent of wrongdoing, 460 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: for having been part of any scandal involving men of power. 461 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: She had hurt Melbourne's reputation, and she was characterized as 462 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: a quote she devil in the press because of it. 463 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 1: But Talford tried it again. He reintroduced his bill in 464 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: eighteen thirty nine. It once again sailed through the House 465 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: of Commons, but this time Telford had sought out support 466 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: in the House of Lords to help make his case 467 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: that the bill was sound and was in the best 468 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: interest of children. The loudest attractor was the same person 469 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: who had tried to take Melbourne down. That was William Best, 470 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 1: First Lord Winford. His position was that letting women have 471 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 1: custody of children in a separated marriage would only enable 472 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: such women to turn the children against their fathers. He 473 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: framed it as an assault on men's rights as fathers 474 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: and said that it was important to quote prevent the 475 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: improper access of an angry woman to the children of 476 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: her husband. He also claimed that though new legislation might 477 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: help one woman, it would quote ruin a hundred children. 478 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,959 Speaker 1: But though Lord Winford had people in Parliament who agreed 479 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: with him, the bill passed, and the Custody of Children 480 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: Act gave new rights to mothers starting in eighteen thirty nine. 481 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: Under the Act, mothers who were not guilty of adultery 482 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: would have custody of any children under the age of seven. 483 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: But it also provided for there to be access to 484 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: children for either parent who was not their primary caregiver. 485 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: So with this victory, we are going to close out 486 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: part one. Part two we will cover Caroline's ongoing battles 487 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: with her husband and another piece of litigation that she influenced. 488 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: Do you also have some listener mail for us. It's 489 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: from our listener Sam, who is writing about our Eliza 490 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: Fenning episode. Also as an aside, I know I've been 491 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: in really dark places with my stuff lately. I'm good, 492 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: Like I said I've said before, that's usually when I'm 493 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,479 Speaker 1: in a pretty good place and I can handle it. 494 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: So Sam writes, Howdy, I'm sure you'll get a couple 495 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: of these, but I wanted to say that I knew 496 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: I recognized the Eliza Fenning case from somewhere, and I 497 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: eventually remembered that it's often cited as an inspiration for Frankenstein. 498 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: I wrote an essay on the trial of Justine Mritz, 499 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: which always interests me as something completely forgotten about the 500 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: original narrative for many folks, and a thread that sticks 501 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: out of the weave for me. Justine is a servant 502 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: considered incredibly kind and helpful and trusted, who is wrongly 503 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: accused of murder and then wrongly convicted and executed. I've 504 00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: included the essay I wrote, don't judge me too much. 505 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: It was from freshman year of undergrad. I do have 506 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: a paragraph on the comparison and cite the essay I 507 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: got it from. But I think the more interesting part 508 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: is how Justine Moritz has failed by both the state 509 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: that convicts her and the church which pushes her to 510 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: a false confession, and how she is condemned repeatedly for 511 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: lack of gratitude, and how all this pushes her to 512 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: the outside of society, where the creature feels forced to live. 513 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: Eliza Fenning's trial is interpreted by Mary Shelley as evidence 514 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: of how British society feels that the lower class is 515 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: just on the bubble of inhumanity at any time. Included 516 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: some pics of our family cat does Demona, who decided 517 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: that me finishing a puzzle was not enough about her. 518 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: Thanks for reading, Sam. I wanted to read this because 519 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: we mentioned Mary Shelley in this episode, so it seemed 520 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: like a good connector. And I feel like I scribbled 521 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: us down in a note somewhere while working on the 522 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: Eliza Fending episode, and then I probably intended to talk 523 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: about it behind the scenes and forgot. So I am 524 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: thankful to you Sam for her. Also, listen, don't you 525 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: can't have puzzles and cats at the same time. You've 526 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: got to pick one or another. Those are the rules, 527 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: at least at my house. You've just reminded me that 528 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: maybe I can't remember if it was for Christmas or Birthday. 529 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: I bought my spouse like one of those mats that 530 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: you can put down and you work your puzzle and 531 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: then you can roll it up when it's not in use. 532 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: I have so many questions, Okay, I'll ask you them 533 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: later about the functionality of this mat, because I think 534 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: it may depend on how you are humble puzzles anyway, 535 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: Thank you, Sam, that is a great point. And listen 536 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. I'll talk about it all day any day. 537 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: I love it. Sure. If you would like to write 538 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: to us, you could do so at History Podcast at 539 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio dot com. You can also find us on social 540 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: media as a Missed in History and you can subscribe 541 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you 542 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Stuff you Missed in History 543 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 544 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 545 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.