1 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Invention. My name is Robert lamp and 2 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,319 Speaker 1: I'm Joe McCormick, and I gotta start you off with 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: a pop quiz today. Robert, Actually, no, this isn't a 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: pop quiz. Let's not pretend because you already know the 5 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: answer to this, It's in the notes. But here's the question. 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: Would you have known the answer if you didn't do 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: the research for this episode? The question is do you 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: know who was the very first person ever to receive 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: a Nobel Prize in physics? I would not have known 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: prior to recording this, not off the top of my 11 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,599 Speaker 1: head either. No, I wouldn't have been able to come 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: up with a name. So the very first Nobel Prize 13 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: in Physics recipient is a German physicist by the name 14 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: of Wilhelm Konrad Rundkin. And in the words of the 15 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: Nobel Prize organization, he got the prize quote in recognition 16 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: of the extraordinary services he has rendered by the discovery 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: of the remarkable rays subsequently named after him. So raise 18 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: named after him one of these Wilhelm rays. Yeah, we 19 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: don't call him that. No, No, these were the Runtkin rays. 20 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: And sure enough, if you go back into the eight 21 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: ten nineties, and look at the journals of the time. 22 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: You can find like articles in the journal Nature by 23 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: no less than J. J. Thompson, the guy who's credited 24 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: with the discovery of the electron, comparing Runtkin rays with 25 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: the radiation emitted by uranium salts. But most people, probably 26 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: today do not know what Runtkin rays are because we 27 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: call them by a different name. We call them X rays, 28 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: and that is going to be the topic for today. 29 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: We're gonna be talking about X rays. Now. Of course, 30 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: this is a show about invention, and before you get 31 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: out all your well, actually's it's quite true that X 32 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: rays were never at any point invented. They are not 33 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: a human invention. They are part of nature. In fact, 34 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: X rays are no more human invention than visible light 35 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: is than though what makes X rays special is that 36 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: while we've long had the ability to produce copious amount 37 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: of visible light, it's only since around the beginning of 38 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: the twentieth century, a little bit before the beginning of 39 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: the twentieth century, that we understood how to produce and 40 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: control X rays. And it's this power, the power of 41 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: the X ray machine that we're looking at today and 42 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: That's one of the wonderful things though about this episode, 43 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: is that this is a case where we can point 44 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: to one individual, one scientist, one physicist, and and identify 45 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: their key role in this turning point in history. Yeah. 46 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: I think a lot of inventions are are kind of murkier, right, 47 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,399 Speaker 1: Like a lot of things that we think of as 48 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: inventions are actually just like slight modifications of something that 49 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: came before. H This is a case where there really 50 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: was a tremendous, sudden breakthrough and it had far reaching 51 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: effects all over the world. Just try to imagine the 52 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: time before X rays, Before say X rays in a 53 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: diagnostic medical context. We now know X rays are useful 54 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: for a lot more than just medicine. But just think 55 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: about going to the doctor and maybe having something wrong 56 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: inside you at a time when there were no X rays. Yeah. 57 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: This reminds me of the old saying um about how 58 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: a book is man's best friend outside of a dog 59 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: or was that because inside of a dog is too 60 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: dark to see? Yeah, but it is. It is dark 61 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: inside the body, and it was it was truly dark 62 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: and in many other ways before the X ray, Because 63 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: before X rays, the best way to peer inside the 64 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: living body. It was to look through a natural aperture 65 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 1: using what you would call the old knifeoscope. Yeah. Basically, yeah, 66 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: if you if you didn't have a natural aperture to 67 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: look into, you would have to make one, You'd have 68 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: to cut one. And it's I think it was really 69 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: difficult to overstate the importance of this bit of medical technology, 70 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: the ability to see how bones and tissues are aligned, 71 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: to see what might be wrong with them, what's broken, 72 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: how are they healing. But to use a very basic 73 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: example that comes up a lot discussing the X ray 74 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: and the advent of x ray technology is, Uh, you 75 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: have an individual who is say shot with a with 76 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: a by a gun. A bullet enters their body. Now, 77 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: sometimes the bullet exits the body, but other times it 78 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: does not. How do you find the bullet? Well, today 79 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: we can x ray, somebody find the foreign map matter 80 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: and you know, hone in on where we need to 81 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: remove it from. But prior to this, one might have 82 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: to do a bit of searching and sometimes the bullet 83 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: couldn't be found at all, which can have dire results. 84 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: In one for instance, a US President James Garfield was 85 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: shot and subsequently died in large part because they could 86 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: not find the bullet. That story is actually weird and 87 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,559 Speaker 1: worth reading about in depth if you ever get a chance. 88 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: The the assassin was a guy named Charles Julius Gatteaux. 89 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: Who he was, this dude who thought that he had 90 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: helped James Garfield get elected, and so he thought that 91 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 1: God was telling him that he had like a special 92 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: appointment coming to him, like that he deserved a console 93 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: ship or something, and he ended up shooting James Garfield. 94 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: But it's often been said that Garfield's death was not 95 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: caused directly by the assassin's bullet, but by the failures 96 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: of medicine at the time, because he didn't die until 97 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: eleven weeks after he was shot, and not only could 98 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: the doctors not find the bullet inside him, they had 99 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: to keep digging around looking for it with like the 100 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,799 Speaker 1: unsterilized equipment and dirty hands of the time, probably leading 101 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: to the infections of the wound which ended up killing him. Now, 102 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to imply that the X ray, 103 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: of course, is our only way of understanding what's going 104 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: on inside the body or diagnosing illnesses, but it is 105 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 1: tremendously important, and that was one of the reasons that 106 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: X rays are taken so often. That is why I 107 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: venture to say everyone listening to this podcast has received 108 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: an X ray in their life. I'm sure you've received 109 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: multiple X rays. I would be I would be shocked 110 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: if there was anyone out there who has never received 111 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: an X ray. And you should be thankful that X 112 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: rays are so much safer today than they were when 113 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: they were first invented. But even when, even back at 114 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: that time, when they were dangerous, they could be a 115 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: life saving intervention. Um so a bit more, I guess 116 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: on Mr Runchkins So. He was born in Prussia now 117 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:07,679 Speaker 1: Germany March five. He died in February of nineteen twenty 118 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: three in Munich. And in the mid eighteen nineties, Runtgan 119 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: was working as a professor of physics at Wurzburg University 120 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: in Bavaria, and around this time, the behavior of discharge 121 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: known as cathode rays was extremely hot stuff in science. 122 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: Lots of physics researchers around the world that they were 123 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: pushing the limits of science working with cathode ray tube experiments. 124 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: So what's a cathode ray tube? Here's the simple version. 125 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: You get an enclosed glass tube and use a vacuum 126 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: to suck most of the air out of it. You 127 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: want to try to create like a partial vacuum, a 128 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: rarefied gas environment inside the tube. And then inside this tube, 129 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: you have two metal electrodes known as a cathode and 130 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: an anode, And imagine you connect those two electrodes separately 131 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: to the terminals of a battery. The cathode is connected 132 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: to the negative terminal. The anode is connected to the 133 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: positive terminal. Now, obviously the current wants to flow, right, 134 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: it wants to flow from the negative to the positive. 135 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: And if you apply a great enough voltage to this tube, 136 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: you will actually begin to see the tube glow as 137 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: a result of electrons flying off of the cathode and 138 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: jumping to the anode, jumping across the gap. And so 139 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: different forms of the anode can create different effects. Like 140 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: if you use an anode that's the receptive terminal with 141 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: a hole in the middle, so it's kind of a 142 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: ring that's attracting these electrons, you can essentially create a 143 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: kind of beam of electrons that flows through the anode 144 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: and projects against the inside wall of the tube on 145 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: the far side. And if you use an anode in 146 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: a particular shape. You can kind of cast a shadow 147 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: in that shape of the two against the back of 148 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: the two wall, surrounded by the glow of the streaming 149 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: electron flow. Now, of course, at the time, physicists did 150 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: not know what was happening in the tube right. The 151 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: electron was not even formally discovered until when the physicist J. J. 152 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: Thompson used Catherine Cathode ray tube experiments to prove the 153 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: existence of this tiny sub atomic particle with a negative charge, 154 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: which we would later come to call the electron. In 155 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: the years before this, there was still a lot of mystery, 156 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: what's happening, what's causing this glow? So a little bit 157 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: earlier in the eighteen nineties, Wilhelm Rundkin was performing experiments 158 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: with Cathode ray tubes. Specifically, it was on one day 159 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: in November of eight that he was doing experiments on 160 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: a kind of tube called a Crooks tube, named after 161 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: the English physicist William Crooks, and while performing experiments with 162 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: the tube in a completely darkened room, Rundkin noticed out 163 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: of the corner of his eye that a screen of 164 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: barium platinum cyanide in the room with him began to glow. 165 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 1: When the cathode ray was powered up. Now, this barium 166 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: platinum cyanide, this is a material that was used in 167 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: photographic plates that we now know fluoresces. It glows in 168 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: the presence of ionizing radiation like X rays and gamma rays, 169 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: and so in this dark room it was glowing. He 170 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: found that the screen was being excited by some kind 171 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: of energy that was emitted from the tube every time 172 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: he turned it on, and the screen glowed as if 173 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: it were being illuminated by light. But whatever caused it 174 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: to glow was completely invisible to the naked eye. It 175 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: was as if he had discovered a form of invisible light, 176 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: which sounds pretty freaky to the Halloween music, and it 177 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,719 Speaker 1: it is essential though in understanding what's going on here, 178 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 1: because they did not understand what this was. No, they 179 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: did not originally understand that this was a higher energy 180 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: form of the same type of radiation that that causes 181 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: visible light. So he was doing experiments trying to figure 182 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: out what was going on here. He immediately started all 183 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: these different tests, like he found that the rays left 184 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: images on photographic plates, so that's one thing you could 185 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: use them to essentially expose a photograph, And he also 186 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: experimented with placing different objects between the tube and the 187 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: photographic plates, and he found that this unknown energy which 188 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 1: started calling X rays seemed to pass right through some 189 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: objects like wood and paper, while being stopped by others 190 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: that would leave a dark spot on the exposed photographic plate. 191 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: In his most famous experiment, Runt again extended this this 192 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: idea of the variable opacity or transparency of of solid 193 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 1: matter to his own wife's hand. His wife, Anna Bertha. 194 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: He asked her, he was like, honey, come in, and 195 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: he had her hold her hand over a photographic plate 196 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: while he bombarded it with X rays for about fifteen minutes. 197 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: And there's a story not not known for sure, if 198 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 1: it's true that, upon seeing the X ray of her 199 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: own hand, uh Anna Bertha said, I have seen my death. 200 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: And when you've seen the skeleton, yeah, when you look 201 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: at the image, it's not hard to see why it 202 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: is so spooky. You can see the bones within the 203 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: palm reaching up. I mean it looks like these like 204 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: long ghoulish fingers, because what you're actually seeing is that 205 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: the poem is composed of of long bones that connect 206 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: to the fingers at the knuckles, and so it makes 207 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: the X ray of the hand look like a hand 208 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: with like freakishly long fingers, and then her wedding ring 209 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: is in there, so it's this huge black lump on 210 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: the third finger. Uh, it's it's it's creepy. You know this. 211 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: I can't help but think of the scene and David 212 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: Cronenberg's The Fly where he wants to drag Gina Davis, 213 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: his character, his his his former lover into the telepod 214 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: with him as part of the ongoing experiment. But another 215 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: comparison I want to draw here between fictional mad science 216 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 1: and real science and real innovation is something we've already 217 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,719 Speaker 1: touched on that he was not acting alone in all 218 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: of this research. There were other people engaging with the 219 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: same sort of technology, uh, sort of reaching after some 220 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: of the same ideas, and he was the first person 221 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: to really put things together. Yeah, so right after he 222 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: discovered this, he immediately pretty much began to publicize his findings. 223 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: It was the same year, and other researchers replicated them. 224 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: So other people did they you know, like, it wasn't 225 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: all that hard to put together the apparatus he had. 226 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: It wasn't like he had some special materials or something. 227 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: He was just like, hey, try this, and people pretty 228 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: easily could and they did, and so another scientist named 229 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: Arthur Schuster soon discovered that X rays were, in fact 230 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: the same type of radiation is visible light, just in 231 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: a much higher energy form, higher frequency, shorter wavelengths. And 232 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: so it's almost like, you know, the the keys to 233 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: discovering the X rays had been lying around. Yeah, but 234 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: like with the fly, though, we just see this one 235 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: vision of this. Uh, this mad sign is working on 236 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: his own as if no one else has has really 237 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: any access to the same ideas or technology, when in 238 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: reality they would probably be like six other additional films 239 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 1: in which someone did not successfully teleport themselves or did 240 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: not wind up being turned into a monster, that sort 241 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 1: of thing, I mean, I guess also like the fly, Uh, 242 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: this story has some lessons about informed consent right where 243 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: he I don't think that runtgen meant to cause his 244 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: wife harm, but people at the time did not understand 245 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: that overexposure to X rays would be extremely dangerous, even lethal, 246 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: And so you have the idea here of like of 247 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: runt again inviting his wife into this experiment when she 248 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: didn't really know what the risks were, and he didn't either. Now, 249 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: so we've touched on before. Runtken, is this turning point 250 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: because there's no real reason why someone else couldn't have 251 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: technically made the same discovery sooner uh as As. Then 252 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: this was pointed out in Early History of X rays 253 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: by Alexei Asthmus. First of all, cathode ray tubes and 254 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: fluorescent screens were the only required technology, and they've been 255 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: around for decades. Some researchers had even observed a fluorescence 256 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: in the tubing or fogged photographic plates. But prior to 257 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: the work of German physicist Nobel Prize winner and al 258 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: toly total Nazi um like seriously joined up early and 259 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: despised any non German science, including the quote Jewish fraud 260 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: of relativity um Philip Lennard who lived eighteen sixty two seven. 261 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: Prior to his work, everyone was focused on what was 262 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: going on inside the tube, not the effects of the 263 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: ray outside the tube, and Leonard was the was actually 264 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: the first to do this, and Runkin made the key 265 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: connections using equipment that came from Leonard and others as well, 266 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: including that Nicola tesla oh I didn't know that, but again, 267 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: it's just it's helpful to to look at at a 268 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: key innovation, key discoveries taking place, you know, not in 269 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: a vacuum like that. There is something that that there 270 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: is something kind of storybook special about that, that that 271 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: one person who is the first to make the ultimate 272 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: connection that leads to these new discoveries. Well, there were 273 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: so much going on with physics discoveries around the turn 274 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, in those decades surrounding it, I mean, 275 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: must have been such an exciting time to be working 276 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: in a field like this. All Right, we're gonna take 277 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: a break, and when we come back, we're going to 278 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: talk some more about the kind of energy the kind 279 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: of uh innovations that come in the wake of this discopion. 280 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: All right, we're back. So you remember the story We 281 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: don't know if it's true, but the story that in 282 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: a Bertha will Holm, Rundkin's wife, after she saw the 283 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: X ray of her hand, she said, I have seen 284 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: my death. And that's interesting in multiple ways because it 285 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: sort of unknowingly portends the risks the dangers of X rays. 286 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: But also I think what she would have meant by 287 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: that is that she could see her skeleton, she could 288 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: see inside her own body, and this was something so 289 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: unusual to people at the time, right, I mean, and 290 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: in many cases, essentially what a doctor is able to 291 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: do is take the X ray and say, oh, I 292 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: see your death right here. Um, but we can remove it. 293 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: Don't worry about it, right, I Mean that's not always. Uh, 294 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: this is an over simplification and doesn't apply to all 295 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: medical scenarios, but it again, it does give us this 296 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: phenomenal ability to look inside the body and see in 297 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: some cases things that should not be their conditions that 298 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: should not be there, or the evidence of injury. And 299 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: soon after the discovery of X rays, in fact, very 300 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: soon after, it was almost immediately picked up for medical uses. Yeah, 301 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: everything from examining broken bones to as we mentioned, finding 302 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: lost bullets in a body. Now, as with pretty much 303 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: any cutting edge medical technology found at the dawn of 304 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: the twentieth century. Uh, you can find a terrific look 305 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: at at at X ray technology in the Steven Soderberg 306 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: medical drama The Nick, which I think I've mentioned on 307 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: this show before. I definitely mentioned on Stuff to Blow 308 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: your mind before. Uh, there's just a fabulous drama that 309 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: wasn't seen by enough people. In the two seasons that 310 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: it ran highly recommend anyone pick it up because in 311 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: season one, episode six, the hospital at the center of 312 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: this drama they acquire a second hand X ray machine 313 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: and the whole time there's just there's just reckless use 314 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: of X rays in this episode because again we're in 315 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: a period of time where there's all this enthusiasm about 316 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: the about the technology and there's this this just revelation 317 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: about what it can be used for, and at the 318 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: same time, uh, the dangers of the technology are only 319 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: just beginning to be made evident. But in in the 320 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: Nick there's a there's a scene where the salesman UH 321 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: and UH members of the hospital staff are are trying 322 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: it out without any regard for the dangers of radiation exposure. 323 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: There's a scene where the salesman boasts that the machine 324 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: works just fine. He says, quote, my children were taking 325 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: dozens of X rays for the of themselves the other day. 326 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: They had the thing running for hours. That's some dark 327 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: humor it is. It's it's a wonderful show, but it's 328 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: like it's like in Madmen, when you know the kids 329 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: are always playing with like a plastic bag over their 330 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: heads and stuff from the don't care. Yeah, there are 331 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: a lot of moments like that that the show itself 332 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: is particularly good because it has this minimal electronic score. 333 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: It has this there's a way that they do the 334 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: cinematography that Soderbrook shoots it, you know, in which it 335 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like a period piece it is. It's you know, 336 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: obviously a period said in a historic period, but it's 337 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: displayed bright and almost futuristic because it was a time 338 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: when all these amazing discoveries were being made and all 339 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: of these technologies that are explored in this episode and 340 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: and others were the cutting the bleeding edge of our 341 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: understanding of human physiology but also the physical nature of 342 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: the world. But it's also got this dark, retrospective irony. Yeah, 343 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: why why is it that we love stuff like that? 344 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: I've noticed that's a thing that lots of historical TV 345 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: shows and movies do now and generally audiences tend to love. 346 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: Is that kind of thing like that my kids were 347 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: playing with the X ray machine, or that you know, 348 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: this little girls playing with plastic bag overhead. Like people 349 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: just really love the like, oh, they don't understand the 350 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: danger yet. Well, in a way, I think a show 351 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: like The Nick is kind of reverse science fiction. Like 352 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: science fiction look looks to the future but deals with 353 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: contemporary anxieties about science and technological advancement and the cultural 354 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: response to all of that. And the nick especially looks 355 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: to the past, but I think you can you can 356 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 1: see ways in which it is also speaking to the 357 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: definitely speaking to the modern viewer. So it is kind 358 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: of a reverse science fiction. Yeah, that's interesting. Um, I 359 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: mean it's interesting in a different way than looking at 360 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: the science fiction of the past, is because we different things. 361 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: Seems significant to us in retrospect then seemed then, I 362 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: guess seemed interesting to them in prospect exactly. Now, certainly 363 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: as we've we've touched on the danger was not recognized yet. 364 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: Rather than radiation, the prevailing idea was that this was 365 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: essentially a type of photography it was being demonstrated with 366 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: the X ray machine, and that the rays involved were 367 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: were more akin to harmless light visible light. Yes, and 368 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: Runkin accepted Leonard's view that the cathode rays were quote 369 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: vibrations of the ether uh and that it was ethereal 370 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: and didn't and you know, therefore did not reflect or refract. Uh. 371 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: They were He suggested longitudinal vibrations of the ether. The ether, 372 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: I guess this was the day of the luminiferous ether, right, 373 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: the idea that there was a substance through which light 374 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: had to propagate, and this was one thing that people 375 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: would often continue to think basically until Einstein. Right. But 376 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: part of Einstein's achievement was showing, like, you don't need 377 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: an ether theory to show how light travels by the way. 378 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: This is another thing it's interesting about Runkin is that 379 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: he himself only published three papers on X rays during 380 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: his life, But again, there were just so many people 381 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: that were just ready to jump in on this research. 382 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: I know one of his papers I was looking at 383 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: an article that talked about how I think it was 384 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 1: his very last paper on X rays was about how 385 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: to make them visible? And I think it was like 386 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: that they could be perceived directly by the eye at 387 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: a very high intensity or certain circumstances. Interesting, it doesn't 388 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: sound safe, but but again, yeah, it was. It was 389 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: all these other researchers and innovators and inventors that came 390 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: in the aftermath of his initial discovery that really made 391 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: all of this difference. Um. And then there were those 392 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: two that dismissed it as mere novelty, and this is 393 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: actually reflected in that episode of The Nick as well. 394 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: But other people saw its appeal. Dr Henry W. Ktell, 395 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: demonstrator of morbid anatomy at the University of Pennsylvania. It 396 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: sounds like a Hogwarts position, doesn't, But he told The 397 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: New York Times in quote, the surgical imagination can pleasurably 398 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: lose itself and devising endless applications of this wonderful process. 399 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: And that is in contrast to other individuals who thought 400 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: this was a fad, that this was just a you know, 401 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: a side show, and that clearly wasn't going to be 402 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: a major part of medical diagnosis or treatment. Now it can't. 403 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: We were talking at the beginning about how it wasn't 404 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: immediately clear how dangerous it was. But it can't have 405 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: taken too long for people to catch on, right, because 406 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: they would start to see the effects, right. That's and 407 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: and that's was that was driven home in a couple 408 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: of different resources I looked at here for this. The 409 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: dangers apparently became clear too many of these individuals who 410 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: were working with radiation pretty early by seven for instance, 411 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: hair loss and skin burns, were already being reported because 412 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: you have these researchers working without protection, exposing themselves to 413 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: to these rays way too much, and they're beginning to 414 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: notice damage to their own tissues. Yeah, and if you 415 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: if you want to see something really horrible, you can 416 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: look up what X ray burns look like. It is 417 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: a nasty business. Now. Throughout this time, researchers continued to 418 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: weigh in on just what it was. You know, what 419 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: was this this a vorta of vortex in the ether 420 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: that I'm looking at here high frequency light? Of course 421 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: that's the correct answer. Longitudal waves. That was the original idea. 422 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: Transverse impulses of the ether and similar properties were also 423 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: of course observed in uranium. But it was also really 424 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: ultimately going to be a thirty year journey for scientists 425 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: to really gain like a kind of a bedrock understanding 426 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: of what they were dealing with. Another thing that modern 427 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: audiences might not understand is that because if you've had 428 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: an X ray at the dentist recently or something like that, 429 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: it probably did not take all that long. You know, 430 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: they just flash it on and off and there you go. Uh, 431 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: The older X ray machines took a lot longer. Well, 432 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier a fifteen minute exposure and some of 433 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: the original experiments, uh, and it would require you would 434 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: need even longer periods of time for certain parts of 435 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: the end of the anatomy, such as the head. There's 436 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 1: another scene in that episode of The Nick where he's 437 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: testing it out on the hospital administrator character and he says, 438 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: what part of your body do you want to see? 439 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: And he said, oh, I want to see my head. 440 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: So he has him hold up the plate and it 441 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: sets up the machine and says, all right, this should 442 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: take about an hour. Yeah, because the head and the 443 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: brain were extremely difficult to image at the time. But 444 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: as we said, there there was a lot of danger 445 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: in the early days of radiation experimentation and usage. UH. 446 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 1: Dr Walter James Dodd, for instance, who lived eighteen sixty 447 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: nine through nineteen through nineteen sixteen. He was one of 448 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: the United States first radiologists. He made some very key 449 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: early innovations, but he also suffered numerous radiation burns and 450 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: had to have several appendages amputated, and he eventually died 451 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: of cancer from radiation exposure at the age of fifty three. 452 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: Thomas Edison actually abandoned his own research into X ray 453 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: technology after his assistant, a glassblower by the name of 454 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: Clarence Madison Dally suffered, you know, an identical fate to 455 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: Dodd due to radiation exposure. Yeah, that's something to hammer 456 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: home that, um. I mean a lot of the risk 457 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: at the time was obviously if you were being imaged 458 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: a lot and having a lot of exposure to X 459 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 1: rays that way, it was risky for you. But it's 460 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: especially risky for the people who were operating the machines 461 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: because they're around them all the time. They're not just 462 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 1: there when they're being image they're they're all day. Yeah. 463 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,239 Speaker 1: I was looking at one source here, early clinical use 464 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: of the X ray by Joel D. Howell, m d, 465 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: pH d, published in and the Transactions of the American 466 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: Clinical and Climatological Association, and the author pointed out the following. 467 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: He says, quote, early X ray users would test to 468 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: see if the tube was putting out an adequate amount 469 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: of X ray by looking for a glow in their 470 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: hand when they put it in front of the beam. 471 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: Method of testing that would soon reveal itself to have 472 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: delaterious consequences. But he also adds that evidence seems to 473 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: indicate that many of them knew way more about the 474 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: dangers than they let on, and that he says that 475 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 1: there was this zeal uh you know, this really this 476 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: idea that there was a valor and pushing this amazing 477 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: and life saving technology, um, even though there were these 478 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: ever more apparent risks. Oh, I want to talk about 479 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: a very clear example of that in a minute with 480 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: with Marie Curie. Actually, he also points out another thing 481 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: that's very interesting. They says that it's it's very about 482 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: how we we can't quite look at the X ray 483 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: machine in isolation to understand the changes that came about 484 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: because of it. I'm going to read a longer quote 485 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: from that paper, he says, quote, one must study how 486 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: the machine is used with a specific social, political, and 487 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: economic system. The technology to be considered is not only 488 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: a machine, it is also the system within which that 489 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: machine is used. In the case of the X ray machine, 490 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 1: that would include the organizational structure of the institution, the 491 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: people designated to run the machine, and the forums on 492 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 1: which such use was recorded. Even though the published medical 493 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: literature would suggest that the case for using X rays 494 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: to diagnose fractured bones was firmly established by nineteen hundred, 495 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: it was not a regular part of patient care for 496 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: decades to come. What was required for it to become 497 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: a part of routine patient care included changes in the 498 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: type of person who was running the machine, changes in 499 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: the payment mechanism, and changes in the way that data 500 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: were conceptualized. Yeah. I mean it's introducing a whole new 501 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: paradigm to medical care. Yeah. And again this is just 502 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: another reason that it it's difficult to to overstate, uh, 503 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: the impact of of X ray technology on medicine. Absolutely, 504 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: and I want to talk about an example of that 505 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: also in early early twentieth century wartime medicine. So there's 506 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: a fantastic article I read by Timothy J. Jorgenson, who's 507 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: the director of the Health Physics and Radiation Protection Graduate 508 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: program at Georgetown University. And the article is on the Conversation. 509 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: It's called Marie Curry and her X ray vehicles contribution 510 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: to World War One battlefield medicine. And so this is 511 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: a story I actually somehow I had never read about before. Um, 512 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: but this was fascinating. So we all know Marie Cury, 513 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: the Polish born French physicist and chemist and She's best 514 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: known probably for the discovery and isolation of the elements 515 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: radium and polonium, and for her work on radioactivity spontaneous radiation, 516 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: for which she received two different Nobel Prizes in nineteen 517 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: oh three and nineteen eleven. Uh So, Curie was doing 518 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: her work. She was conducting her research in Paris with 519 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: the Radium Institute when World War One broke out in Europe, 520 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: and in one of the early maneuvers of the war 521 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen fourteen, German troops clearly had set their sights 522 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: on the city of Paris, on the French capital, and 523 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: they eventually they invaded France through Belgium, and we're trying 524 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: to march towards Paris to take the capital city. Obviously, 525 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: Cury knew that she couldn't continue her research if the 526 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: city was attacked, so she packed up her fly of radium, 527 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: like literally packed it up in a leadlined case and 528 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: fled to the southwest towards Bordeaux, which I think is 529 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: also where the French government were moved to. But she 530 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: went to Bordeaux and she hid her radium in a 531 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: safe deposit box in a bank vault. Yeah, but having 532 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: safely stored France's supply of radium her radioactive treasures. She 533 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: did not just continue to flee the war. Instead, Curie 534 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: was determined to help with the war effort and defend 535 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: France against the German assault. But she couldn't, of course, 536 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: pick up a rifle and go to the front lines. 537 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: But she had another idea. Instead, she used her knowledge 538 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: about physics and radiation to create an invention that would 539 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: go on to save the lives of thousands of injured 540 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,719 Speaker 1: French and Allied soldiers on the front lines. And this 541 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: would all be with the help of X rays. So, 542 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: by the time of World War One, X rays were 543 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: known to be a life saving medical technology. Like we've 544 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: been talking about, they were useful for diagnosing internal injuries. 545 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: But you had the big, clunky X ray machines of 546 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: the day that were usually cooped up in the high 547 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: tech urban hospitals. Right, So if a French soldier was 548 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: filled with bullets or shrapnel along the front, these hospitals 549 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: would have been many miles away. You can't like take 550 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: the soldier all the way back to the hospital. A 551 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: lot of times they'll often die on the way to 552 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: take a long time to get there. Um, so what 553 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: do you do? How do you bring the life saving 554 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: power of X rays to the injured fighters on the front. 555 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: So Marie Curry's invention was the radiological car. It's a 556 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: car on the bottom, but outfitted with a compartment containing 557 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: an X ray machine and a dynamo to generate the 558 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: electricity to power it, as well as dark room equipment 559 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: for the development of radiological photographs. And these radiological cars 560 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: were nicknamed by the soldiers petite curies, and Curry oversaw 561 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: the creation of the first car, which was used to 562 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: treat wounded soldiers at the Battle of Marne later in 563 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen, a battle which the Allies won. But obviously 564 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: one car was not enough to put a serious dint 565 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: in this problem, so Cury herself petition donations of cars 566 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: from rich French women to be turned into petite curies, 567 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: and with the help of her daughter Irene, Currie trained 568 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: female volunteers to operate the X ray machines on the 569 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: front lines, and by the end of the war they 570 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: had trained a hundred and fifty women as front line radiographers. 571 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: Now Currie also oversaw the creation of more fixed facilities 572 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: like X ray diagnostic stations at field hospitals behind the 573 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: front and drove and she actually drove and operated a 574 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: radiological car for the war effort herself. Of course, repeated 575 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: exposure to X rays which Curry and her technicians experienced 576 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: come that comes with a lot of associated health risks, 577 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: like we've been talking about. And Currie understood this, like 578 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: she knew that she was putting herself and her health 579 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: and her life at risk by exposing herself to these 580 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: X rays. But I think she saw it as part 581 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: of the risk of aiding in the war effort, just 582 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: like a soldier would put his life on the line 583 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: going out over the trenches. And actually later in her 584 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: life when he suffered from a plastic anemia, which can 585 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: of course result from radiation exposure, some people thought, well, 586 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: maybe it was her experiments with radium and stuff that 587 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: caused that condition, but Curie actually believed it was her 588 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: repeated exposure to X rays during the war that were 589 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: more likely to have caused the condition. And all told, 590 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,719 Speaker 1: it's been estimated that Curi's efforts contributed to more than 591 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: a million wounded soldiers receiving X rays during the war, 592 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: a huge fraction of which likely had their lives saved. 593 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: By the procedure. It is interesting in retrospected, you know, 594 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,719 Speaker 1: to see how this technology came online in time, just 595 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: in time for the two World Wars, times of such 596 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: injury and loss of life. Yeah, I mean often when 597 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: you think about the nightmare of the First World War 598 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: in particular, it seems like it's a time of such 599 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: terrifying chaos and confusion, largely brought about by new technology, right, 600 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: new warfare technology. Uh, that it was almost like an 601 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: experimental labor to worry for ways to kill and harm 602 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: one another. And so it's kind of interesting also seeing 603 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: going on in the background at being a laboratory of 604 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,959 Speaker 1: ways to save lives. Indeed. All right, on that note, 605 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: we're going to take another break, and when we come back, 606 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: we're going to discuss the legacy of the X ray. 607 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: So X ray has changed the world in other ways, 608 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: as Richard Gunderman, Professor of Medicine, Liberal Arts, and Philanthropy 609 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: at Indiana University, pointed out in an article that he 610 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: wrote for The Conversation, UH, this discovery of X ray 611 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: and the advent of X ray technology led to X 612 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: ray crystallography, which allows us to see the world at 613 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: a very small scale. To image molecules, and in fact, 614 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: the father son team of William H. And William L. 615 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: Bragg shared in the nineteen fifteen Nobel Prize in Physics 616 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: for this advancement, and without it, James Watson and Francis 617 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: Crick wouldn't have been able to discover the chemical structure 618 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: of DNA. Oh Yeah, and always got a shout out 619 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: Franklin and Wilkins as well. Now, additionally, X ray astronomy 620 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: allowed us to understand the greater cosmos. Yeah, and X 621 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: ray astronomy is an interesting case. It's worth putting in 622 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: the context to the broader ecosystem of technology like astronomy 623 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: saw such an explosion of new techniques after the nineteen 624 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: sixties once we could put observatories in space, and this 625 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: is largely because Earth's atmosphere blocks many kinds of radiation 626 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: that we now use to image the universe. And this 627 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: obviously is a very good thing, right. The atmosphere lets 628 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: most visible light through while stopping a lot of ionizing 629 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: radiation from space like X rays, and by adding space 630 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: based telescopes that could see other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum, 631 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: not just visible light, we greatly expanded astronomical capabilities. For example, 632 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: X ray astronomy in particular has helped us detect and 633 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: understand some of the most extreme and energetic objects in 634 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: the universe, like it played a role in the detection 635 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: and understanding of neutron on stars and black holes. Like 636 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,879 Speaker 1: we often detect black holes from the X rays them, 637 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: not necessarily from the body itself, but when a black 638 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: hole has material spiraling into it, it spews jets of 639 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: X rays out into space as the black hole superheats 640 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: the gases that are swirling into it. Not on a 641 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: much smaller scale. Um Gunderman doesn't mention this in his article, 642 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: but airport security X rays, no matter how much they 643 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: make irritatus, that they do help keep commercial flights safe 644 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: in this day and age. Can you imagine if they 645 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: couldn't X ray your bags and they had to like 646 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 1: open up everybody's bag and look through it, or just 647 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: like just looking in eyes and just it's just like 648 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: a trust system or gosh, yeah, you can just imagine 649 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 1: all the myrroad complications that would arise from not being 650 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: able to perform that scan. Yeah, I'm gonna say I'm 651 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: open to being argued otherwise, but as annoying as airport 652 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: security is, it would be infinitely worse and infinitely more 653 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: annoying without X rays. But it's it's kind of like said, 654 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: this is part of the broader ecosystem of the technology. 655 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: And of course there were also additional changes in the 656 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: way we used X rays for medical purposes. Uh, not 657 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: only to find bullets in boken broken bones, but you know, 658 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: spot pneumonia's swallowed objects, cavities, and even cancer. And then 659 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: you get more advanced versions of X ray scans that 660 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: became possible, uh, CT scans, for instance, being X ray 661 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: X rays through the body at different angles to create 662 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: a superior image. Yeah, and people who are outside the 663 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: medical professions might not realize how absolutely essential CT scans 664 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: are these days, like how how frequently they're used and 665 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 1: how many lives they save. Gunderman points to a study 666 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: in the journal Radiology that looked into the use of 667 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: CT scans in the emergency department of hospitals, and the 668 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: authors they're just wanted to see how often a CT 669 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: scan changes the doctor's primary diagnosis of a patient. Right, 670 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 1: doctor sees you, examines you externally, they think one thing, 671 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: so they order us CT scan. How often does the 672 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: CT scan change what they think is wrong with you? 673 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: And the study found, quote, the leading diagnosis changed in 674 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty five of four hundred and sixty 675 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: patients with abdominal pain, and that's about fifty one hundred 676 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: and sixty three of three and eighty seven with chest 677 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,879 Speaker 1: pain and or dispania, which is difficulty breathing, and that's 678 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: forty two and a hundred and three out of four 679 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty three with headache, which is so we 680 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: can't compare this directly with the time before CT scans, 681 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: because it's just it's kind of apples and oranges. But 682 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 1: if you take it as a very rough estimate, just 683 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: think about what it means that CT scans change what 684 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: a doctor thinks is wrong with you fifty one percent 685 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: or forty two percent of the time, and then think 686 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: about what that meant before we had these technologies. Right, 687 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: Just imagine going to the doctor with chess pain or 688 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: trouble breathing in the eighteen hundreds, before there is any 689 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: any of this kind of internal imaging, when even doctors 690 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: today change their primary diagnosis about forty two percent of 691 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: the time after looking at a CT scan, Gunderman writes, quote, 692 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 1: Thanks to CTS wide availability and great speed, doctors can 693 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: determine within minutes whether or not a patient's abdominal pain 694 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: is due to impendicitis, chest pain reflects a tear in 695 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: the order, or a severe headache is due to the 696 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: rupture of a blood vessel in the brain. It is 697 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: no wonder that about eighty million CT scans are performed 698 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: each year in the US. And it also turned out 699 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: that the same radiation that could detect cancer could also 700 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: destroy it. Radiotherapy. Yeah, radiation oncology has its roots actually 701 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: in the years immediately following Ruigan's discovery, when doctors discovered 702 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,919 Speaker 1: this peculiar power. Now and to be sure, X rays 703 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: were used to treat a lot of illnesses before its 704 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: dangers were discovered. Um again, you just have to think 705 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: to this, the zealous use of radiation and just the 706 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,720 Speaker 1: idea that this new technology could do just about anything. 707 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: But looking broadly at these and the zeroing in on 708 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,240 Speaker 1: on some of the treatment details. X rays to treat 709 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: cancer may have occurred as early as eighteen, which, if 710 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: you'll recall from earlier, that's the year right after Runkin 711 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: discovered X rays and it was like at the end 712 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: of eighteen that he discovered them. Now I want I 713 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: want to stress though used in an attempt to treat 714 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: this was This was certainly extremely early days. Now. One 715 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,800 Speaker 1: thing that's interesting and worth noting is that Runkin actually 716 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,919 Speaker 1: did not seek riches from his discovery, like he did 717 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: not file for a patent on the production of X 718 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: rays through his method UH, and he even donated the 719 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: cash component of his Nobel prize to the university worked for. 720 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,399 Speaker 1: He believed that scientific discoveries like X rays that were 721 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 1: useful in helping people in medicine were the common property 722 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: of humankind, not something to be claimed and profited on 723 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,760 Speaker 1: by one man. And that's kind of a refreshing change, 724 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, Now, torek up Runkin discovered X rays. 725 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 1: In the following year, Antoine Becquerel identified radio activity, and 726 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: by nineteen hundred, alpha, beta, and gamma rays had been discovered. 727 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,840 Speaker 1: And as James Burke UH, the author and UH television 728 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,360 Speaker 1: host explored, in the day of the universe changed, even 729 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:25,240 Speaker 1: more types of radiation were expected, even more discoveries surely 730 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: seemed to be just around the bend. And then in 731 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: nineteen O three Burke rights. Uh. The physicist Renee blonde 732 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: Lott reported the discovery of a new type of ray, 733 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 1: the N ray, and he observed them while looking at 734 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: polarized X rays and reported that they increased the brightness 735 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: of an electric spark. And after he made this observation, uh, 736 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,279 Speaker 1: other individuals working in the field they backed him up 737 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 1: on this said, oh, yeah, we see it too, And 738 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 1: within three years hundreds of papers had been written about 739 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: in rays with all sorts of new properties thrown into 740 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: the vat here in eluding various connections with muscle activity 741 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,719 Speaker 1: and the inner workings of the human mind, as if, 742 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: like you know, uh, intense human thought could create inn 743 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: in rays. Uh. And in the midst of all of this, 744 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: American physicist Robert W. Wood steps in. He was something 745 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: of a declaim an acclaimed debunker at the time, and 746 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 1: he looked into the matter. He observed blonde Let's demonstrations 747 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: himself like firsthand, and he did not see the increase 748 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: in the electric sparks brightness. And then when blonde Lott 749 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,359 Speaker 1: and his assistance conducted an experiment with the prism, which 750 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: was another thing that they did to to try and 751 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 1: prove the existence of these in rays uh to show 752 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,759 Speaker 1: how it refracted like light, which of course X rays 753 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: do not. UM would did a curious thing. He quietly 754 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: removed the prism while they were from their experiment. While 755 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,360 Speaker 1: they were conducting it, and the researchers continued to see 756 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: the in rays or reports seeing the in rays and 757 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,239 Speaker 1: so uh so really would just completely discredited this. He 758 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: reported on it, and after he he he did so, 759 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 1: no one saw an N ray again. This was essentially 760 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,400 Speaker 1: essentially in an illusion that was brought on by just 761 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,959 Speaker 1: the zeal for discovery and the feeling that there were 762 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: going to be more rays and uh and and and 763 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: that it was just inevitable that they would be found. Well, 764 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,439 Speaker 1: as we mentioned earlier, this was a time of tremendous discovery, 765 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: but it was also a time when people believed tons 766 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 1: of scientific things that later turned out to be completely wrong. 767 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: The luminiferous ether that's just gone, there's nothing there, nothing 768 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 1: to the theory, but but it was widely accepted at 769 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: this time. Yeah, Burke rights in the day of the 770 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: universe changed quote. There was never any suggestion that Blondelt 771 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: was a charlatan. He and his colleagues were victims of 772 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 1: the expectation that in rays would be discovered, and when 773 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,439 Speaker 1: they built instruments to see the rays, they saw them 774 00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: for a short time. This non existent phenomenon is did 775 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 1: the most stringent tests and methods known to science. So 776 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: it becomes something of a you know, a cautionary tale 777 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 1: about over enthusiasm, uh in scientific research and the dangers 778 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: of it potentially outstripping the rigors of science and scientific investigation. Yeah, 779 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 1: you can understand why people will be excited, but simmer down, folks. 780 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 1: There's also kind of an interesting invention to close out 781 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,280 Speaker 1: this episode of Invention, the the the instruments that they 782 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 1: invented to see the non existent in rays um. Because again, 783 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: it's not like a pooping duck robot. It's not a 784 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 1: it's it's not a work of Charlottan. It is just 785 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:42,400 Speaker 1: a work that compounds and illusion. Yeah, well, meaning enthusiasm 786 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 1: can still breed. Gremlin's that it can. That it can. 787 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: All right, So that you have another episode of Invention, 788 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 1: we can file that one away and if you want 789 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:52,439 Speaker 1: to check out the files. If you want to see 790 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: other episodes of the show, head on over to invention 791 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: pod dot com. That is our website. You'll find the 792 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: other episodes as well as links out to our social 793 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,640 Speaker 1: media accounts, and if you want to discuss the show 794 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,840 Speaker 1: with other listeners, we would recommend going to Stuff to 795 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,799 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind discussion module. That's a Facebook group where 796 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 1: you know mostly we've talked about episodes of Stuff to 797 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind, but we're also happy to discuss episodes 798 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: of Invention there as well. Huge thanks to our friend 799 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,759 Speaker 1: Scott Benjamin for research assistants on this show, and to 800 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 1: our excellent audio producer Torri Harrison. If you would like 801 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,279 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us, was feedback on this 802 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: episode or any other, suggest a topic for the future 803 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: of Invention, or just to say hi let us know 804 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,280 Speaker 1: how you found out about the show. You can email 805 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:54,320 Speaker 1: us at contact at invention pod dot com.