1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: M taking a Walk Nashville at the end of the day. 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 2: Like that simplicity of making sure that you do a 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 2: good job, that you don't mess it up, and that 4 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 2: you turn around and help somebody behind you. 5 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: Pretty powerful stuff. 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 3: Hi, this is Sarah Harrelson, your host of Taking a 7 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 3: Walk in Nashville Today. I am taking you to the 8 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 3: eighth Avenue South neighborhood in Nashville. Joining me today at 9 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 3: her office is Jenny Smyth, the founder and CEO of 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 3: award winning Girl LM Marketing, which heads digital strategy for 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:41,959 Speaker 3: a diverse roster of world famous entertainers and brands, including 12 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 3: Debt and Company, Willie Nelson, Darius Rucker, Blondie Brookshields, and 13 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 3: Vince Gill just to name a fuel. Her early career 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 3: includes time at Disney's, Hollywood Records, Yahoo Music, Warner Brothers, 15 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 3: and Clear Channel. And today we are sitting down to 16 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 3: talk about her new memoir that is out now called 17 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 3: Becoming Girl. 18 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 4: Gorilla Buzzsnight and this is Taking a Walk Nashville with 19 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 4: singer songwriter Sarah Harrelsick. 20 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 5: Hi, Jenny, thank you so much for being on the 21 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 5: Taken a Walk Nashville show today and. 22 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: You're having me. I'm happy to be here of course. Yeah. 23 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,559 Speaker 5: So we are here at Gorilla Marketing today in Nashville, 24 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 5: and I just read your new memoir, Becoming Gorilla, that. 25 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: Was published earlier this year. 26 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 5: So what inspired you to write about your life experiences 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 5: as far? 28 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: I want to tell you you're the first person in 29 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: a long time that has actually pronounced gorilla right, so 30 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: high five. We have many variations, but that was that's 31 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 2: fun and exciting for me. I wrote this book simply 32 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 2: because I felt like I had all this information and 33 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 2: all these stories that I thought people could really resonate 34 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: with and hopefully on the work side of life digital 35 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: marketing and social media really just take a look at 36 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 2: how they were behaving online and improve because there's so 37 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 2: many good things about it, and that really doesn't make 38 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 2: the news very often. So I wanted to kind of 39 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: tell the historical, you know, relevance to my life personally 40 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 2: through my career, but I also really wanted to leave 41 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 2: people with ideas and options of how to better relate 42 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: to human beings online. 43 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 5: And you get very personal in your story in this 44 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 5: book and your life experiences, and I kind of got 45 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 5: chills reading the prologue myself because my father's name is 46 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 5: actually Pete and you have a peat. I have a peat, 47 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 5: and I was a strange for him for ten years 48 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 5: until my mother passed away and then I got reconnect 49 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 5: did with him. 50 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: So I just related whoheartedly to your. 51 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 5: Story, and I just think so many other people can 52 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 5: relate and connect to your story. So thank you for 53 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 5: sharing it. I definitely thank you for telling. 54 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: Me that because sometimes, like you know, that was the 55 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: intention of the book, is that and I said this, 56 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: I hope that people see themselves in my story. So 57 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: to hear that is actually really powerful for me because 58 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: I know that it worked and that was the intention. 59 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: And you just by saying that somebody's going to see 60 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: this podcast and they're going to say the same thing 61 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: to you, and that was the intention. It was just 62 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: to say, like, hold on a second, we're all connected. 63 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: How do we move forward? And especially after the. 64 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: Last few weeks for us online have been really difficult 65 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: for a lot of us, And so even though the 66 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 2: book came out in April, you know, in October, the 67 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 2: fact that I'm still able to talk about the basics 68 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: of what I think we do together to move forward 69 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: in this type of communication is doing that. 70 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: It's like really connecting with people. And so thank you 71 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: for telling me that. 72 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you. I think connection is so important. I 73 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 5: think young female professionals will relate to this book a lot. 74 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 5: And I want to talk about the start of your 75 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 5: career because you say the music industry is all about 76 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 5: who you know sometimes, and I think that's so true. 77 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 5: And speaking of who you know, as stripper, landed your 78 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 5: first professional opportunity at Elektra Entertainment, and as she told you, 79 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,799 Speaker 5: they they're going to think you're a stripper when you arrive. 80 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: Was not the case. 81 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 2: I mean, it was like there, it was a wild 82 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: time in the nineties. Yeah, but no, I don't think 83 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: anyone thought I was a stripper. But I did heed 84 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 2: her advice, which was it boiled down simply. 85 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: She was like, I'm going to help you. Once you 86 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: get settled, you help somebody else. And then I won't. 87 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: Say what she actually the words that she used on 88 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 2: this podcast, but she basically, in a very blunt way, 89 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 2: told me not to mess it up, that there were 90 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: people that needed to be helped behind me, and like 91 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: there's not a career counselor that could have given me 92 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 2: better advice, Like it was so out of left field 93 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: coming from this person who I. 94 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: Don't even really know her real name, Like it was NICKI. 95 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 2: That's all I know, you know. But if I could 96 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 2: find this person again, I often thought, oh, man, I 97 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 2: hope at one point she sees something and reaches out 98 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 2: and says, I'm Nikki. 99 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: That would be so amazing. 100 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, like that simplicity 101 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: of making sure that you do a good job, that 102 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 2: you don't mess it up, and that you turn around 103 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 2: and help somebody behind you. 104 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: Pretty powerful stuff. 105 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's very important. And during the course 106 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 5: of a career, you worked for a lot of different 107 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 5: corporate companies in the corporate world and music, such as 108 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 5: Warner and Yahoo and clear Channel. But what was the 109 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 5: actual turning point that led you to starting your own 110 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 5: business guerrilla marketing And how did you navigate past the 111 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 5: fear of being an entrepreneur for the first time. 112 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: So I was really lucky, Because I say lucky, I 113 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: worked really hard and took advantage of opportunities. So we 114 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: just called that lucky. 115 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: To have amazing job opportunities at gigantic companies. The problem 116 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 2: with me with those particular companies, is that I never 117 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 2: really fit a particular role or I would fit now, 118 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 2: but then I naturally you want to keep changing and 119 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 2: doing different things. And when somebody offers you a job 120 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 2: for a role, it's pretty well defined, like here's your 121 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: job description, here's your salary cap. You know, you might 122 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 2: have a bonus structure or some kind of incentive, but 123 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 2: for the most part, like you know what your lane is. 124 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: And so even though I had amazing experience, it wasn't 125 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 2: like a I didn't have like a bad experience that 126 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 2: I was like, I can't do this anymore and I 127 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 2: need to start my own business. It wasn't like that 128 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 2: at all. It was it was basically more about I 129 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 2: don't fit in this world and I'm not utilizing the 130 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 2: skills that I have in the best way possible for me. 131 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: And so my only option was really to be an entrepreneur. 132 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 2: My only option was to start the company that I 133 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 2: envisioned that I wanted to work at. And in this 134 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 2: job seventeen eighteen years later, it changes every single day. 135 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: I don't have a lane. 136 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: I definitely have responsibilities as a CEO as making sure 137 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: the health and wealth in my company is you know, 138 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 2: doing well, but I don't know what I'm gonna do 139 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: every single day when I walk into this office. So 140 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 2: that is a spirit thing, you know, and you have 141 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 2: to be the right personality for that. But truly it 142 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 2: was a much more natural fit for me than anywhere else. 143 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 2: But you asked me how I got over the fear. 144 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 2: You don't ever get over the fear. 145 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: And again seventeen eighteen years later, the same worries that 146 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: you had on the first day that you start are 147 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: still there. But like, you do it. 148 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 2: Anyways and then it just becomes a muscle reaction. But 149 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: I even, you know, people used to say to me 150 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: all the time in the beginning, like why would you 151 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: do this? It's so risky, you know, how do you know? 152 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: Like what are you going to do when you're twenty 153 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 2: years in. 154 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 3: You know? 155 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 2: And I'm like, man, those are all what ifs that 156 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: you could actually apply to any other job, you know, 157 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 2: because companies go under all the time. And I grew again, 158 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 2: I'm a kid in the nineties, so I saw all 159 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: these giant corporations fall. I saw all these people with houses, 160 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: their mortgages default. 161 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: I saw my dad. 162 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 2: Worked for the same company for twenty five years. My 163 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 2: mother worked for the government. That didn't seem like an 164 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: option for me. 165 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: It just didn't. It just it wasn't for me. 166 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with it, it just wasn't for me, 167 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 2: And so I figured I would bet on myself. 168 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: Have to take a leap of faith. 169 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, but like pragmatically speaking, the biggest piece of advice 170 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 2: that I have for anybody is. 171 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: To just not go into debt. You know, because as 172 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: soon as you have debt and there's expenses, but expenses 173 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: are different than debt. Debt is changes how you make decisions. 174 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 5: So yeah, I think that's a good point, especially because 175 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 5: you know, it might have been a different story if 176 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 5: just right off the bat, you were going to be saying, 177 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 5: you know, hey, I'm going to start my own company, 178 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 5: instead of the career experience you built up before that, 179 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,119 Speaker 5: before those skills right that you learned. 180 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 2: And the same thing when you're starting out, like kids 181 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 2: that are coming out of college and they have accrued 182 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 2: an exorbitant amount of debt, they're making decisions based on 183 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 2: paying that debt off instead of setting up their life. 184 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: That's a huge problem for me. 185 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's such an important point, And you 186 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 5: bring up a few times in your memoir how you 187 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 5: felt like you needed to accomplish a great amount by 188 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 5: the time you were thirty. And I think, as women especially, 189 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 5: we all put a deadline on ourselves, like we need 190 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 5: to accomplish this and that by the time we're thirty, 191 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 5: when you know. 192 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: This shouldn't be the case at all. 193 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 5: So what advice do you give to women who feel 194 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 5: like maybe they're stuck in their career at their age 195 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 5: and they can't break the glass ceiling. 196 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 2: Oh so making all of those decisions got me in 197 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 2: jobs I didn't like and a divorce, right, So if 198 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 2: I would have made different decisions, then I wouldn't be 199 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 2: here talking to you about these same things. So like, 200 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 2: it's not I wouldn't say that any of those things 201 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 2: are mistakes per se. 202 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: I would just. 203 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 2: Say that, like it was experienced, that maybe didn't have 204 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 2: to be so painful. 205 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: But I truly believe that, like those weird. 206 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 2: Rules that we put on ourselves, I do feel like, 207 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: generationally speaking, some of those things have dissipated. And so 208 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: I see people that I work with that no longer 209 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 2: are feeling those kind of pressures. And you know, there's 210 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 2: biological pressures. Of course, there's biological pressures for women on 211 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 2: when they are gonna decide to potentially have a family 212 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 2: or not, and you know, that's that's something that has 213 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 2: to be addressed. But I think you see more options 214 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 2: and you have more examples now of people that have 215 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 2: worked through pregnancy or you know, adopted or you know, 216 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 2: got just so many different ways to do that. Where really, 217 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 2: when I was coming through it was based on two choices. 218 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: You know, you were either going to have kids or 219 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: you weren't right. 220 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 5: And how was your digital marketing agency shifted since you 221 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 5: opened it in two thousand and eight with the development 222 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 5: of technology. 223 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 2: Everything, I mean literally we if you just think about 224 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: what was happening hapening in two thousand and eight and 225 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 2: two thousand and nine online, it seems like simple times, man. 226 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: I mean it was like Facebook was a college thing. 227 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 2: Twitter was like having a moment YouTube. You know, you're 228 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: watching Obama inauguration videos, You're watching Susan Boyle like singing 229 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 2: her heart out, Like you're experiencing the Internet for the 230 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 2: first time with a lot of people. And not to 231 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 2: say the Internet wasn't there, because it was there before that, 232 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 2: but everybody having access and really what changed that was 233 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 2: the mobile phone, right, the smartphone, because up until then, 234 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 2: I mean I remember sending in marketing meetings and people saying, hey, 235 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 2: all those people between California and New York, they don't 236 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 2: have Wi Fi and they're like on dial up and 237 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 2: they're never going to adopt these things like music streaming 238 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 2: and downloads. 239 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: And I was like, what are you talking about? 240 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 2: Like that is crazy to just say we're only going 241 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 2: to care about this coast and this coast and everything 242 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 2: else in the middle the flyover states if you will 243 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 2: like these people, I mean, the implication was that, like 244 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 2: maybe they weren't a smart and I just was like 245 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 2: hardly offended by that, Like I wanted to I wanted 246 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: to speak to them, so like how do I do that? 247 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: You know? And so that was that was that was 248 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: the assignment. The assignment was to. 249 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 2: Figure out how to reach people that you were told 250 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 2: maybe didn't want to be reached digitally. 251 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: And I just didn't believe that. And I still don't, 252 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: you know, when I hear things about you know, certain 253 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: research studies and you know, different ways that we measure 254 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: through survey, I'm just like. 255 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 2: I I refuse to believe it because I don't need 256 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 2: a middleman to tell me like what people find interesting 257 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 2: because people can speak for themselves. So that was that 258 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: was a huge game changer to be like the person 259 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 2: one of the people at the table who had the perspective. 260 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: That didn't go through a gatekeeper. 261 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 4: We'll be right back with more of the Taking a 262 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 4: Walk Nashville podcast. Welcome back to Taking a Walk Nashville. 263 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 5: Would you say AI has helped you with it? 264 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: Was it still? 265 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 5: Is it still just an area you guys were trying 266 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 5: to figure out how you can use it beneficially, look. 267 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: Double edged sword, huge issues on copyright, data protection, all 268 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: of those things. 269 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: But just like when the Internet came, just when the search. 270 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 2: Engines came, it's an equalizer and it is another tool 271 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 2: in our in our arsenal and as people, you know, 272 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: you used to be able to choose like are you 273 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 2: going to watch DV? Are you going to go on 274 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,119 Speaker 2: the internet? Are you going to go to the library, 275 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: are you going to read a book? All of that 276 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: AI is already here. It's already integrated into everything that 277 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 2: you do online. So the idea of you know, sort 278 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 2: of raging against it is futile. What you have to 279 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 2: do is figure out how do you use it to 280 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 2: your advantage. So to answer your question, my our biggest 281 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 2: hurdle are impostors. From a music marketing standpoint, our biggest are, 282 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 2: hands down is impostors and and scams of our fans online. 283 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: And the platforms don't really help us out. 284 00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: So they give us tools to proactively report these things 285 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: in which is helpful, but it doesn't. 286 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 2: It's like a never ending game of whack a mole 287 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 2: and it costs us time. It costs us money and time. 288 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 2: You know, certain things don't get. 289 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: Removed because the impostors and the fake accounts get nuanced 290 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: to the rules of like what. 291 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: Is considered an impostor and what isn't. And it's heartbreaking 292 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 2: to read some of these stories of people that are 293 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,719 Speaker 2: catfished and think that they're talking to somebody and they're not. 294 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 2: Some networks are better than others, but for the most part, 295 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 2: that's our biggest hurdle right now. 296 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think your job has been constantly shifting with 297 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 5: the course of technology, and it will continue to. But 298 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 5: do you think it's harder with technology now for everything 299 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 5: you have to sort through or does it make it 300 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 5: easier because you don't have to phone up as many 301 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 5: people stick flyers around them. 302 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 2: I actually think you still need to do that because 303 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 2: I feel like you're leaving real life, you know, a 304 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 2: side by just concentrating solely on digitally. So I would 305 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 2: say this, I would say, the volume is what makes 306 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 2: it sort of unattenable. 307 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: It's the amount of networks. 308 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 2: Is the amount of different types of content that needs 309 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 2: to be created on each network, right like it used 310 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 2: to be this was for video, this was for photo, 311 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 2: This is for pictures of your kids and your dogs, 312 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 2: right like, that was kind of how we looked at things, 313 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 2: and now it's hey, these are the five different types 314 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 2: of media that you need to create for this. This 315 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,239 Speaker 2: is the interaction, you know whatever. So I sort of 316 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 2: liken it too, having multiple networks within your reach, and 317 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 2: each network has its own set of channels, and so 318 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 2: how do you approach that? And sometimes it's the same 319 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,959 Speaker 2: on you know, across the channel, but oftentimes it's not. 320 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: So it's a volume thing. 321 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: But I will say this, I love social media the 322 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 2: idea of being without it, even though it is not 323 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 2: without its faults, But I do remember a time without it, 324 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 2: and I am very happy to be connected with people, 325 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: to be able to keep in touch with my friends 326 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 2: who don't live here or that do, and that we're 327 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 2: just busy and on different paths, and that I get 328 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 2: to see those birthday photos and I get to see 329 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 2: you know, their accomplishments at their jobs, and just in general, 330 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: you know, able to learn about causes that are important 331 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 2: to me that I can donate to. Like these are 332 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 2: all blessings, but for the most part, the ethos in 333 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 2: this building is that you don't own these networks and 334 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 2: you can't depend on them. Like we're as we're sitting 335 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 2: here today, on the date that we're sitting down, there's 336 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 2: a strong possibility by the time this goes live that 337 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 2: will have some indication of what is going to be 338 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 2: happening to a particular network or not, you know, in the. 339 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: Next three four months. 340 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 2: So things like that are really good reminders that like 341 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 2: you can use that you can use these networks, but 342 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 2: you can't rely on them. 343 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: So as old school and eye rolly as. 344 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 2: This sounds, it's super important that you have your own properties, 345 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 2: your email list, your website, you know, any any business 346 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: that you own that you have the data because at 347 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 2: any given time, one of these networks can go down, 348 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 2: go away, get bought, get sold. 349 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 1: And we've seen this before. 350 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 2: You know, you asked me about two thousand and nine, 351 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 2: like man MySpace was was it? It's not here anymore, 352 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 2: and we still talk about it like it was a 353 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 2: part of our culture. 354 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: It was a part of our ethos. 355 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 2: And so these things can be impactful and they can 356 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 2: also be fleeting. 357 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, you just never know, right, of course it's going 358 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 5: to take rice exactly. You've dealt with your own battle 359 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 5: of breast cancer, and you know, it seems everywhere you 360 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 5: look now people are dealing with cancer in some form 361 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 5: of another, and many entrepreneurs and full time creatives can't 362 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 5: afford health insurance or they just kind of put it off, 363 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 5: and then when they deal with their own health battle, 364 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 5: you know, they're out of work, they're not able to 365 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 5: go and do their job. And you are on the 366 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 5: board of Music Health Alliance. So how does this organization 367 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 5: break the barrier for people in the music industry struggling 368 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 5: to obtain healthcare. 369 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: They're so far beyond even breaking the barrier. I mean, 370 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: there was nobody doing this work. 371 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 2: So Tatum, the founder of Music Health Lifecience, had a 372 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 2: wide breadth of professional experience before she founded this company, 373 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 2: but she started on the music business side, and I 374 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 2: think she saw a need that we weren't taken care of, 375 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 2: as a lot of us are independent contractors, a lot 376 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: of us are musicians that after a certain point in life, 377 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 2: it's impossible to be a touring musician or you know 378 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 2: a plethora of reasons why somebody can't live on the 379 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 2: road anymore. And we get so much from this community. 380 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 2: Not only do we get amazing art, but we get friendships, 381 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 2: we get support systems, we get you know, community like 382 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 2: and those aren't buzzwords like, that's literally what we have. 383 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 2: And so to know that somebody who's given their whole 384 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 2: life to the music community has we don't. I mean, yes, 385 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 2: we have unions for certain points of professional careers, but 386 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 2: for the most part, none of us qualify for any 387 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 2: anything like that. So Tatum became the conduit to the 388 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 2: music insurance and medical community and the music community when 389 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 2: nobody else was doing it. And I was lucky enough 390 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 2: to see her start that company. So for me, we 391 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 2: are pretty similar in our personalities. We are pretty similar 392 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 2: in our love of the community and also tenacity to 393 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 2: make something happen. And we started at our company's you 394 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 2: know right around the same time. She's a little younger 395 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 2: on that front. But she not only has helped me, 396 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 2: but I mean thousands of pounds, thousands of people, and 397 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 2: it is everything that you could potentially imagine. It is 398 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 2: organ transplants, it is preventative dental care, it is you know, 399 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 2: having a dedicated resource for medicare. It is the place 400 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 2: where a lot of us, when something acute happens, we call. 401 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 2: Like she has become the person that we all call 402 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 2: providing services to small businesses like mine, of finding insurance 403 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 2: that everyone here is covered. 404 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 1: There isn't. 405 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: I don't have an asset in my business, like I 406 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 2: don't have master recordings, I don't have any of that. 407 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: My business assets are my people. And so for me 408 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,479 Speaker 2: as an entrepreneur being able to make decisions of where 409 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 2: my resources are going to go. I hate how expensive 410 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 2: the insurance company is. The insurance company businesses because it's 411 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 2: a business. They're not out here being nonprofits for us. 412 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 2: In fact, they're profiting very well, some would say criminally profitable. 413 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 2: But my biggest expense minus our mortgage, is paying our 414 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 2: health insurance premiums. And at one point in my career 415 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: when I showed up on Tatum's doorstep. My business wasn't 416 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 2: going to make it because of health insurance costs. And 417 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 2: when I think about that and how many people entrepreneurs, 418 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 2: small businesses, and especially women owned business because there was 419 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 2: a time when our insurance was much more expensive than 420 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 2: mail insurance, which is a whole nother podcast. We had 421 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 2: to find a reason to keep going, and Tatum was 422 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 2: that reason to help me find something. 423 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: That I could. 424 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 2: Know that I was doing the right thing for my team, 425 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 2: but also know that I wasn't going to default on 426 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 2: any of my thoughts. 427 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 5: I love that and I just love to bring awareness 428 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 5: to that organization. So I hope if anyone that's in 429 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 5: the music full time listening to this episode at or 430 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 5: checkout Music Health Alliance. 431 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: That makes me help. That was very joyful. 432 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 5: Yes, So since we were on taking a walk Nashville, 433 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 5: I know when you were on taking a walk with Buzz, 434 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 5: he asked you who would you take a walk with, 435 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 5: But in this podcast, I like to ask where in 436 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 5: Nashville is. 437 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 1: Your favorite place to take a walk. So I think 438 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: every after I watched I had watched. 439 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 2: A bunch of the Buzz podcast before, and then I 440 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 2: felt like the pressure like I really thought about, you know, 441 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 2: what I was saying and who I was going to 442 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 2: pick after listening to what everybody else pick. So I'm 443 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 2: I'm I in my in my mind, I thought you 444 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 2: might ask me who, So I was like, oh, who else? 445 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 2: But I'm relieved. I think that to this day. Radner 446 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 2: Lake is such an amazing place in the heart of Nashville. 447 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 2: So it's like in the middle of the city. It's 448 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 2: just a beautiful path around a lake and it's you know, 449 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 2: an hour, you know to get around the whole thing, really, 450 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 2: and I just. 451 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: Think it's just the biggest gen of the city. Yeah, 452 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: I love hiking. 453 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 5: There so many good dirt paths and I think they're 454 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 5: under construction right now to fix the Iroin Road that 455 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 5: should be back up in November for yeah to check 456 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 5: it out. 457 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: Yes, well, Jenny, thank you so much. 458 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 5: Again for being on taking a walk Nashville today. If 459 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,719 Speaker 5: someone wants to purchase your memoir Becoming Gorilla, where's the 460 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 5: best place that they can find it? 461 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 2: Anywhere anywhere you buy books, but at my website. If 462 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 2: you purchased there, then I know that personally, and that. 463 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: Means a lot to me too. 464 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 5: Wonderful and that's Gorilla Marketing dot com. Yeah perfect, Thank 465 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 5: you again, thank you today. 466 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 4: Okay, thanks for listening to Taking a Walk Nashville with 467 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 4: singer songwriter Sarah Harrelson, and check out our other podcasts, 468 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 4: Music Save Me, Comedy Save Me, and Taking a Walk. 469 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 4: Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 470 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 4: get your podcasts.