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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This is a New York

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Speaker 1: City police officer tasked with protecting and serving who, according

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Speaker 1: to the FBI, went out and tried to hire a

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Speaker 1: hitman in order to kill her estranged husband and the

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Speaker 1: daughter of her boyfriend. It's not something that you expect

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Speaker 1: from any police officer at first look. Thirty four year

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Speaker 1: old Valerie Cincinneti is a role model, a twelve year

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Speaker 1: decorated veteran of the NYPD and mother of two, but

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Speaker 1: federal authorities say behind the scenes she was plotting murdered

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Speaker 1: for the past few months. Her story made headlines last Friday,

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Speaker 1: the shocking story involving an NYPD officer accused of hiring

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Speaker 1: a hitman to kill not only her strange husband, but

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend's teenage daughter as well. I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: believe it, but apparently it's true. Did a female cop

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Speaker 1: actually order a hit? I mean, see, Grace, this is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Straight out

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Speaker 1: to Dave Matt, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, what happened?

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Speaker 1: Nancy Valerie Cincinnelli is a decorated police officer in New

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Speaker 1: York City for many years and Apparently she got fed

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Speaker 1: up with her ex husband over their child, over their son,

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Speaker 1: and went to her boyfriend, her current boyfriend, and said,

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Speaker 1: I want to take him out. Go get me a hitman,

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Speaker 1: and the boyfriend says, yeah, I think I might know

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Speaker 1: a guy, and that's where it began. But then Cincinneali says, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's take out your fourteen year old daughter too. That's

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Speaker 1: when the boyfriend goes to the cops and says, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: we've got a problem with one of your cops. So

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Speaker 1: wait a minute. She wanted to not only get rid

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Speaker 1: of her estranged husband, but she wanted to get rid

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Speaker 1: of her boyfriend's team. Girl. Yeah, she's fourteen years old,

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Speaker 1: and apparently Cincinneli didn't care for her at all. You know,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, longtime colleague and friend, Director the col Research Institute.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't know why I don't just stop

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Speaker 1: saying this, But every time I say I think I've

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Speaker 1: seen it all, then you know, I see something else,

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Speaker 1: and then I say it again, I think I've seen

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Speaker 1: it all. You know, we worked in the trenches together,

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Speaker 1: fighting crime, looking for defendants, looking for evidence. Do you

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Speaker 1: through the dirt for shell casings the works. You know,

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Speaker 1: you think, Cheryl and in a cop, a veteran cop

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Speaker 1: would know better. Yep. Did you actually just say yep,

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Speaker 1: that's your answer? Not only does she want to kill

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Speaker 1: her ex husband? And ladies hear me when I say

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Speaker 1: there is a reason he's an X. Okay, can't you

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Speaker 1: just leave it at that? He's your ex? Go be happy,

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Speaker 1: run like young gazelle, get away from him. Why getting

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Speaker 1: mired down and having a hit put on him? That's

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Speaker 1: for our shrink, Karen start. But Cheryl, Okay, I'm expecting

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Speaker 1: a little more than yep from you. Oh no, I

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Speaker 1: would get into it, and now I get't No, Now

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Speaker 1: I get no. Okay. I guess that's an improvement. Just

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Speaker 1: so overwhelming because you're talking about such an iconic police department.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I mean, the world looks to NYPD

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Speaker 1: for training. And then you've got not only a veteran,

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Speaker 1: but a decorated veteran who foiled a bank robbery on

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Speaker 1: her own. I mean, it is baffling to me that

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Speaker 1: she thought this very elementary plan was going to work.

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Speaker 1: That you go to the person that is your boyfriend

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Speaker 1: that you've had a volatile relationship with that you don't

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Speaker 1: really trust because he's had you arrested. But that's who

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Speaker 1: you go to to find a hit man. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this wouldn't even be a good made for TV movie.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I'd like to see this

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Speaker 1: a made for TV movie. But first, can we just

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Speaker 1: get through the trial and again before defense attorneys get

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Speaker 1: all tuned up? Second verse, same as the first. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's innocent until proven guilty. Maybe I should just start

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Speaker 1: the program with that. Of course, she's innocent until she's

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Speaker 1: proven guilty. But what you said about the NYPD, you're

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Speaker 1: right because we have lived in New York from many

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Speaker 1: many years since I moved to New York. Star show

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Speaker 1: Johnny Cochrane, God rest his soul, and the NYPD is great.

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Speaker 1: They're tough when they need to be when. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: know this is just a tiny snapshot, but whenever the

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Speaker 1: Twins walk up to an NYPD, they couldn't be nicer.

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Speaker 1: I've seen him be harsh, but you know what, they

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Speaker 1: needed to be harsh at that moment when they did it.

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Speaker 1: And yes, every police force has bad apples and they

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Speaker 1: make everybody else look bad. But I think you're right.

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Speaker 1: I think they are iconic overall. Cheryl mcallum, Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: get some facts before I get Cheryl mc come all

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Speaker 1: strung out on what we think happened. Joining me right now.

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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter John Lemley. Okay, Lemley,

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Speaker 1: start at the beginning. First of all, why would you

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Speaker 1: stay with the guy. It's already had you arrested once

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Speaker 1: I take the patent Turner Patton the street at Turner Corner.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, i'd away gone from him, but she stayed.

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Speaker 1: Now she's in the pokey deservedly, John Limley, What do

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Speaker 1: I need to know? Well, that has been an on again,

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Speaker 1: off again, on again, off again relationship for quite some time.

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Speaker 1: I think you should say it one more time. Just okay, good,

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Speaker 1: I got it, I got it, on again, off again, Jackie.

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Speaker 1: Did you get okay? Good? Go ahead, John Lemley. You know,

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Speaker 1: as we're sort of setting the scene for this woman,

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Speaker 1: this decorated police officer. Cheryl McCullum mentioned a story actually

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Speaker 1: that went viral about this police officer. In twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: one of Cincinnella's arrests really made headlines when she caught

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Speaker 1: a man who literally red handed, this time a man

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Speaker 1: went to a Howard Beach bank and demanded cash. He

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Speaker 1: left with a bag filled with thirteen hundred dollars and

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Speaker 1: I mean, yes, the diepack. Yes, I'm so happy. I

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Speaker 1: could not be happier. When the bomb exploded, the man

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Speaker 1: drop the money ran for it. Officers Cincinnati happened to

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Speaker 1: be in the Howard Beach area at the time. A

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Speaker 1: minute that was Valerie Cincinnli allegedly ordered a hit man. Yes, totally, Moley,

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize that. Okay, hold on Bobby Chicone joining me,

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Speaker 1: FBI Special Agent Bobby Chicone. I mean, bank robberies are hard,

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Speaker 1: are hard to break, okay, because usually they're usually they're

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Speaker 1: very well thought out. You go into a bank, you

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Speaker 1: got a plan, you know it's armed, you know there's

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Speaker 1: also it's a surveillance. I've prosecuted a bank robbery before.

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Speaker 1: Usually the FEDS take it away because it's FDIC insured.

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Speaker 1: But I managed to have a bank robbery, Sheryl, don't

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Speaker 1: know if you remember that one. That's what the dyslexic

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Speaker 1: bank robber. Don't touch the al ram, this is the

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Speaker 1: robie translation. Don't touch the alarm. This is a robbery.

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Speaker 1: Needless to say, we did a Yeah, we did a

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Speaker 1: handwriting comparison and he refersed all of his letters in

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Speaker 1: the handwriting comparison. That helped Bobby Chikhon. This woman stopped

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Speaker 1: a bank robber. Die Pack, No, die Pack, And now

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Speaker 1: this that really doesn't make sense. She's that good and

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Speaker 1: did something this bad allegedly. Well, you know, first of all,

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Speaker 1: echo your sentiments about the NYPD. My brother and father

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Speaker 1: were both retired NYPD detectives. However, you know this particular

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Speaker 1: officer Walsh, and then you had to go mess it

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Speaker 1: up and go with the fans m encouragement of my father.

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Speaker 1: But she, you know, this particular officer also had some

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Speaker 1: bad behavior in her police record. Also, she had previously

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Speaker 1: been suspended and her gun taken away and put on

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Speaker 1: modified duty because wait, wait, wait, wait for what for

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Speaker 1: what what did she do to get suspended? She was

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Speaker 1: she was a previous boyfriend of all things, reported that

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Speaker 1: she was spending time at his house while she was

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Speaker 1: on duty. And so, um, she's had some disciplinement. It's

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Speaker 1: with this woman's boyfriend's you know. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor

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Speaker 1: and author of Red Flags on Amazon. Bobby chicon hold

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Speaker 1: On just a moment, John Linley, just hold that thought.

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Speaker 1: We women have got to get together on this, Cheryl McCullough,

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Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, Karen Start. Another boyfriend reports her for being

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Speaker 1: at his house while she's on duty. She probably just

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Speaker 1: swing by for a Haven't Cheese sandwich? What's wrong with that?

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Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick? Yeah, you know, Nancy, it's really a great

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Speaker 1: point you bring up. Are we to be only judged

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Speaker 1: by the company we keep? And if so, why are

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Speaker 1: we so bad at choosing our personal relationships when apparently

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Speaker 1: we're also good at our jobs professionally. This lady seems

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Speaker 1: to be one more example of that. You're right there.

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Speaker 1: There does seem to be a pattern to the problems

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Speaker 1: that she's having in her life. This will no doubt

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Speaker 1: make her sympathetic. I know everybody hates to say that

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Speaker 1: because which you did was awful, but that'll be something

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Speaker 1: a defense attorney will probably pick up on. This is

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Speaker 1: something the father's already stating that it's the sun, it's

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Speaker 1: it's the it's the boyfriend, it's you know, it's somebody

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Speaker 1: else's fault that god are involved in this. But you

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Speaker 1: are right, it is curious that there is this steady

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Speaker 1: string of let's just say problematic relationship. Well wait a minute.

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Speaker 1: You have a very good point there, and a good

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Speaker 1: defense attorney is gonna latch right on. Listen. I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying the woman's innocent, okay, because when you get a

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Speaker 1: hit man case, they've got you every which way but loose.

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Speaker 1: They've got sean tape, they've got sean video here, they

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Speaker 1: stung or with fake murder photos. But you know, there's

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Speaker 1: a very good point. A defense attorney is gonna latch

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Speaker 1: on too. Take a listen to CBS Valerie Castro outside

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Speaker 1: Cincinnelli's dad's house. Listen this guy, because she's involved with

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Speaker 1: there's a wacko psycho. NYPD officer Valerie Cincinnelli, once praised

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Speaker 1: for her role in stopping a queen's bank robbery, now

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Speaker 1: arrested and accused of hatching a plot to hire a hitman.

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Speaker 1: Neighbors were stunned after FBI agents were seen carrying boxes

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Speaker 1: of evidence out of her home. I really can't believe

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Speaker 1: this going this far. It's just I just maybe, like

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Speaker 1: I said before, I don't want to believe it. Her

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Speaker 1: intended targets an ex husband and the fifteen year old

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Speaker 1: daughter of her current boyfriend. According to sources, the price

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Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars. Investigators say the thirty four year old

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Speaker 1: enlisted the help of her boyfriend, but he went to

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Speaker 1: police and became a confidential source. Court documents say in February,

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Speaker 1: Cincinnelli made a cash withdrawal of seven thousand dollars from

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Speaker 1: a TV Bank branch in Wanta to pay the hitman.

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Speaker 1: The confidential source told her the hitman didn't want to

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Speaker 1: off the child near a school, but Cincinnelli's response, according

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Speaker 1: to court documents, run her the explet of over crime

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. As for her ex husband, she

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Speaker 1: hoped his death could be made to look like a

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Speaker 1: robbery gone bad. Friday morning, FBI agents posing as the

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Speaker 1: hitman sent her text messages which included a photograph of

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Speaker 1: the defendant's estranged husband appearing dead in his car and

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Speaker 1: the demand for an additional three thousand dollars to kill

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Speaker 1: the daughter. Cincinneli then allegedly told her boyfriend she was

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Speaker 1: deleting the text messages and pictures to cover up her

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Speaker 1: involvement in the crime. The allegations are tough to grasp

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Speaker 1: for the man who lives next door and has met

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Speaker 1: both Cincinneli's ex husband and her current boyfriend. She's got

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Speaker 1: two kids, man, and she's a police officer. Will she

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Speaker 1: really do something like that? I don't know. Cincinneli's father

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Speaker 1: says his daughter is the real victim of the man

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Speaker 1: who turned against her. There's no doubt that he manipulated

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Speaker 1: multiple conversations to come up with his statements. He's very smart,

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Speaker 1: but he's a pathological liar and there's something wrong with

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Speaker 1: his brain, investigators say. Cincinnati was also reported discussing what

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Speaker 1: her alibi would be, saying she would be sure to

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Speaker 1: be home at the time of the murders. She's being

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Speaker 1: held without bail. Prosecutors argued she is a danger to

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Speaker 1: the community. Did a decorated NYPD cop try to hire

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Speaker 1: a hitman to kill her ex husband? And as if

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Speaker 1: that's not enough, she is now accused of trying to

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Speaker 1: rub out to murder her boyfriend's daughter, teen girl bottom

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Speaker 1: line saying, just runner the f over. I'm understanding that prosecution.

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Speaker 1: The prosecutors are asking for no bond because they believe

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Speaker 1: she is that dangerous. If she's released, what about it,

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Speaker 1: Dave Max, You know they actually mentioned the fact that

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Speaker 1: she's had a number of problems with past marriages, with

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Speaker 1: violence in those marriages, emotional issues as well, and having

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Speaker 1: seen her activities on the police force over the years,

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Speaker 1: they've got this idea that she's not as balanced as

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Speaker 1: she is trying to portray herself. That's why they've they've

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Speaker 1: taken everything away from her. Said, now she's not getting out.

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Speaker 1: You're saying that the reason they're not giving her bond

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Speaker 1: is because of her history of past What do you

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Speaker 1: mean by history of past domestic incidents? There were a

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Speaker 1: number of incidents on file. She's been married before, and

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Speaker 1: there were there were arguments that escalated into violence, and

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Speaker 1: the judge in the case decided that was there was

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Speaker 1: too much there to allow her to go out, That

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Speaker 1: she has a history of bad relationships that turned violent.

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Speaker 1: You know, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Coal Case Research Institute,

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Speaker 1: we've certainly seen our sharecases. Way in her background, its

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Speaker 1: flag after flag after flag after flag. Now you know

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Speaker 1: what a stream effects in your background. They all had

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Speaker 1: arrested you and they physically fought with written up every

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Speaker 1: five minutes. Oh oh no, it's her record, Karen Stark. Psychologists,

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Speaker 1: you can find her at karen stark dot com. Joining

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Speaker 1: us today from Manhattan. Karen Stark, it's her record. Look,

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Speaker 1: you can blame the boyfriends all you want to. You

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Speaker 1: can blame the ex husband all you want to. She's

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Speaker 1: the one that took the money out of the bank

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Speaker 1: to pay the hitman. She's the one that said runner

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Speaker 1: the f over to the hitman. I'm sure she's on tape.

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Speaker 1: You know, they got to get everything on tape. She

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Speaker 1: was part of it. Part part about a psychopath, Mancy,

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Speaker 1: go ahead, you're talking about a psychopath, and when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about somebody like that and Verderer, you cannot persuade

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Speaker 1: another person to commit those kind of crimes. And you're

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Speaker 1: talking about somebody who has no feelings. So it doesn't

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Speaker 1: take a lot to stir somebody up and get them

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Speaker 1: to decide, you know what my ex is in the way.

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Speaker 1: I think I'll just kill him. And while i'm at it,

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Speaker 1: why not kill your daughter? Because you know she's annoying

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Speaker 1: to me too, And that's people are not real. She

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Speaker 1: could care less about what she does, you know, Wendy Patrick,

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark is right, it's her. It is Valerie Cincinnelli.

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Speaker 1: Because aside from each particular man. If you look at

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Speaker 1: her history, she's got the first incident where she's caught

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Speaker 1: on duty hanging out at some guy's house. Then she's

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Speaker 1: been arrested for another incident and with a boyfriend. Now

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Speaker 1: this incident, I mean, that's three. That's three. I mean

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Speaker 1: if I showed up late to court one time, I'd

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Speaker 1: be in trouble as an assistant district attorney. I mean trouble.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can't turn away from the fact that

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Speaker 1: when you don't know a horse, look at his track record.

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Speaker 1: She's got three incidents already, Wendy, that's right, So three strikes,

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Speaker 1: you're out. Now here we are again, and that you're

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Speaker 1: absolutely right. You know, prior bad acts is the legal definition.

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Speaker 1: It shouldn't really be called that because they're not bad acts.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they're criminals, sometimes they are sometimes say paters make

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Speaker 1: the predator when we're talking about sex offenses. But in

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Speaker 1: a pattern like this, you just got to wonder whether

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Speaker 1: or not at what point is it her own bad

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Speaker 1: choices that is to blame, rather than being under the

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Speaker 1: influence of a bad relationship. And one of the issues

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Speaker 1: in court is going to be how much of these

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Speaker 1: prior incidents are admissible in order to explain what she did.

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Speaker 1: Are they relevant enough? Are they similar enough? Maybe not,

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Speaker 1: But it also cuts against the really giving her a break,

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Speaker 1: which is something that the jury might otherwise be tempted

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Speaker 1: to do. Well. This is what we know. Cincinneli was

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Speaker 1: hired two thousand and seven. She was a domestic violence

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Speaker 1: officer assigned to the one hundred and six precinct. She

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Speaker 1: became involved with a local man she met on the job.

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Speaker 1: She was stripped of her badge and gun in twenty

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Speaker 1: seventeen after she ended the relationship and the guy rated

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Speaker 1: her out to internal affairs, claiming she spent time and

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Speaker 1: as Howard Beach home while on duty. What a coinkie

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Speaker 1: dink that he reported her after she dumped. So we're

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Speaker 1: not sure if that's the guy who was described as

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Speaker 1: an older quote sugar daddy who pay for her car

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Speaker 1: and other bills, or is that the same one in

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Speaker 1: this alleged murder for hire plot. What we do know

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Speaker 1: is her husband, Isaiah Carvalho Junior, sued her for divorce

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Speaker 1: in Nassau County. They had a trial set for June.

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Speaker 1: You know, the divorce lawyer is happy the whole thing

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Speaker 1: was foiled, but I want to get back to the facts.

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Speaker 1: John Linley, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. I want

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Speaker 1: you to take a listen to CBS. Valerie Castro as

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Speaker 1: for her ex husband, she hoped his death could be

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Speaker 1: made to look like a robbery gone bad. Friday morning,

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Speaker 1: FBI agents posing as the hitman sent her text messages

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Speaker 1: which included a photograph of the defendant's estranged husband appearing

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Speaker 1: dead in his car and the demand for an additional

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Speaker 1: three thousand dollars to kill the daughter. Cincinneli then allegedly

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Speaker 1: told her boyfriend she was deleting the text messages and

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Speaker 1: pictures to cover up her involved in the crime. The

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Speaker 1: allegations are tough to grasp for the man who lives

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Speaker 1: next door and has met both Cincinneli's ex husband and

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Speaker 1: her current boyfriend. She's got two kids, man, and she's

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Speaker 1: a police officer. Will she really do something like that,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Cincinneli's father says his daughter is the

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Speaker 1: real victim of the man who turned against her. There's

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Speaker 1: no doubt that he manipulated multiple conversations to come up

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Speaker 1: with his statements. He's very smart, but he's a pathological

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Speaker 1: liar and there's something wrong with his brain, investigators say.

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Speaker 1: Cincinneli was also recorded discussing what her alibi would be,

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Speaker 1: saying she would be sure to be home at the

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Speaker 1: time of the murders. She's being held without bail. Prosecutors

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Speaker 1: argued she is a danger to the community. Crime stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, investigators say Cincinneli was also recorded discussing

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Speaker 1: what her alibi would be, saying she would be sure

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Speaker 1: to be home at the time of the murders. She's

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Speaker 1: being held without bail. Prosecutors argued she is a danger

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Speaker 1: to the community. Whoa we are talking about an NYPD

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Speaker 1: officer's Jennifer Lopez look alike who allegedly hires a hitman

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Speaker 1: not only to murder her ex her husband seeking a divorce,

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Speaker 1: but also to murder her boyfriend's teen daughter who doesn't

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Speaker 1: like her. Straight out to Sharyl mccollins, director of the

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Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute, Wow, there's no way around that,

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Speaker 1: not at all. And Nancy, you know you and I

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Speaker 1: used to discuss all the time. The best predictor of

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Speaker 1: future behavior is past behavior. Two men have gotten restraining

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Speaker 1: orders against this woman. Even if you listen to her dad.

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Speaker 1: He talks about the current boyfriend. He says it's alive,

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Speaker 1: but he said the current boyfriend said she pulled a gun.

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Speaker 1: I don't even threatened to kill him. This isn't new

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Speaker 1: behavior for her, This violence, you know, plotting and scheming.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's anything new. I really don't. The jury,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're gonna understand. Oh, you're man husband, you

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Speaker 1: won't him murdered. Okay, that's you know whatever. But you

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Speaker 1: throw in that little girl, that's a game changer for anybody.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question. I understand that angry

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Speaker 1: text messages to her boyfriend and online searches for quote

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Speaker 1: Long Island Lolita and Amy Fisher arose, what's that about?

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Speaker 1: Dave Matt You know, it's interesting when you talk about

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Speaker 1: the text message dealing with those first, there was actually

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Speaker 1: a challenge between Cincinneli and her boyfriend and the hitman,

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Speaker 1: the supposed hitman, because there was a question about the hitman.

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Speaker 1: And again, remember this is a guy pretending to be

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Speaker 1: the hit man against the FBI, and they don't want

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Speaker 1: to take the girl out of the fourteen year old

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Speaker 1: don't want to hit, you know, kill her near the

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Speaker 1: school and they're trying to get Cincinneli to you know,

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Speaker 1: cop to more on the text, and she says, well,

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Speaker 1: let's separate the killings by a couple of weeks, and

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Speaker 1: why don't you just run her over with a car.

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Speaker 1: And that's where you get the you know, you got

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Speaker 1: Cincinnelli talking to the boyfriend and the alleged hit man

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Speaker 1: where she's suggesting to spread out the murders so they're

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Speaker 1: not too close together and hit the girl with the

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Speaker 1: car if you have to do you know anything about

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Speaker 1: the online search for a Long Island Lowlita and Amy Fisher.

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Speaker 1: Cincinneli actually did a couple of interesting searches. One was

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Speaker 1: about Amy Fisher and she was trying to determine how

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Speaker 1: Amy Fisher went and shot Joey Buttafuco's wife. Most of

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Speaker 1: us remember that story. It was referred to as the

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Speaker 1: Long Island leda. Amy Fisher ended up going to prison

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Speaker 1: for several years, but she was searching that and searching

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Speaker 1: what happens to her pension in the event that the

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Speaker 1: spouse passes away. They had these Google searches on her

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Speaker 1: computer which indicated her thought process about killing people and

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Speaker 1: benefiting financially. She was looking up how much money she

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Speaker 1: would make if her husband, he was a cop, passed away.

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Speaker 1: What would her pension be? Yeah, she was concerned about

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Speaker 1: what would happen with the pension when the X was dead. Okay,

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Speaker 1: straight out to Jason Ocean's New York defense attorney, how

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Speaker 1: do you combat that in court? At? Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: the fantasy. I mean, what further acts, Uh, you know

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Speaker 1: happened beyond that? Uh, you know, role play and satisfying

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Speaker 1: her you know, sociopathic thoughts but not acting on them. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, you sometimes you struggle to

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Speaker 1: find a line as a defense attorney that you could

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Speaker 1: exploit them. As you and I both know, it's up

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Speaker 1: to the it's up to the jury to sit through that.

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Speaker 1: It's not my job to figure out exactly what happened,

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Speaker 1: but try to deflect to her a reasonable doubt if

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Speaker 1: there is. But uh, as we see, there's there's more

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Speaker 1: common searches that go on. I don't know what people

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Speaker 1: think that computers aren't accessible bleach bits or anything else

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Speaker 1: for that matter. Well, I mean just the other day,

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Speaker 1: just the other day, I searched Amy Fisher because I'm

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Speaker 1: in the middle of writing a non fiction book, Don't

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Speaker 1: be a victim, And for some reason I looked up

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Speaker 1: Amy Fisher. Who is the Long Island Lolita. I'm certainly

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Speaker 1: not planning a murder, so Jason. That type of search,

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Speaker 1: to me could be construed as innocent. But looking up

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Speaker 1: how much money you'd make if your husband is killed

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Speaker 1: and you're talking to an alleged hitman, it looks bad.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend at Inside Edition. Suspended

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Speaker 1: police officer inspired by the notorious Amy Fisher case when

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Speaker 1: she allegedly tried to have her husband murdered or be

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Speaker 1: acquitted because I did not do this, NYPD officer Valerie

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Speaker 1: Cincinnelli allegedly googled the love triangle case that made international

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Speaker 1: news twenty seven years ago. Any Fisher, dubbed the Long

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Speaker 1: Island Lolita is the teen who was having an affair

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Speaker 1: with the married body shop owner Joey Buttafuco. She shot

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Speaker 1: Buttafuco's wife, Mary Joe, in the face and served seven

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Speaker 1: years in prison. She is now forty four years old.

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Speaker 1: Authorities say she wanted her a strange husband killed because

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Speaker 1: she was concerned she'd have to share her NYPD pension

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Speaker 1: with him. According to court papers, she googled the Amy

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Speaker 1: Fisher case, as well as the phrase if your ex dies,

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Speaker 1: do you get your whole pension? Her estranged husband, Isaiah Carvallo,

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Speaker 1: spoke to Good Morning America. I didn't want to believe it,

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Speaker 1: but apparently it's true. I'll be acquitted because I did

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Speaker 1: not do this. Apparently they actually carried out quite the

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Speaker 1: sting because cops senned a local detective to Officer Cincinnelli,

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Speaker 1: the wife and mother Long Island home, to make a

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Speaker 1: fake notification her husband had been found murdered. When they

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Speaker 1: told her that, Cincinnelli bobs breaks down, crying, but hidden

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Speaker 1: devices then record her discussing an alibi immediately after she

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Speaker 1: closes the door. What happened, Dave mc? You know, the

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Speaker 1: police were involved from the very beginning because the boyfriend

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Speaker 1: notified them. The FBI staged this killing to make it

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Speaker 1: look like the exciseman actually was dead, and when they

423
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: approached Cincinneli, they read good news, bad news kind of thing,

424
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,719
Speaker 1: and they arrested her. And of course she's claiming it

425
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: was all the boyfriend, that he entrapped her into this.

426
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: As you know, an FBI agent posing as the hitman

427
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: sends a text showing Carvallo, that's her husband's dead body, okay,

428
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: and then response she the wife the cop. Cincinnelli tells

429
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: the informant to delete the text message and the photographs,

430
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: and she even writes she's afraid the cops could suppear

431
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: her phone. I'm getting this from prosecutorial documents. Listen to this.

432
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: According to a criminal complaint, in February, Cincinnelli began plotting

433
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: the murders, allegedly withdrawing seven thousand dollars in cash and

434
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 1: giving it to her boyfriend, who converted it to gold coins,

435
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: the fake hitman's preferred method of payment. There was a

436
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 1: concern about bunching the two jobs together, and according to

437
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: court records, Cincinnelli said, let's get the girl this weekend.

438
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: And so that's when the boyfriend says, I don't know

439
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: where she's going to be. Cincinnelli says, let's track her

440
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: on social media. On May thirteenth, Cincinnelli's boyfriend says the

441
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 1: hitman wants an extra three thousand dollars and that the

442
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: hitman didn't want to carry out the daughter's murder near

443
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: the school, to which Cincinnelli responded, run her the blank over,

444
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: how about that? Then? Just days later, last Friday, authorities

445
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: break the news to Carvallo. They told me, we don't

446
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: know how to tell you this, but your wife put

447
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: a hit. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, you're hearing the

448
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: very latest about an NYPD New York Police Department officer

449
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 1: who allegedly hires a hit mancher murder not only her

450
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: ex husband, but her boyfriend's daughter as well. Joining me

451
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: an all star panels, Cheryl mccollins, Director Coal Case Research Institute,

452
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags on Amazon,

453
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: Bobby Chicon, FBI special agent, Karen Stark, psychologist Karen Stark

454
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 1: dot com, and John Limley Crime online dot Com investigative reporter.

455
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: Let me ask you something to you, John Limley, We're

456
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: learning that the boyfriend balked when it came to murdering

457
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: his own daughter. But it sounds like she, Valerie Cincinneli,

458
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: was going forward with the plan anyway. Yeah, that was

459
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: she was. What's the phrase, hell bent on getting this

460
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 1: taken care of? You know, it's sort of ironic. Wait

461
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: a minute, what are you saying getting it taken care of?

462
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: That sounds like you're going to run down to the

463
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: med first and get a shot. We're going to get

464
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 1: that taken care of. That's sort of the way she will.

465
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: I know she may, but not you Limley, for Pete's sake.

466
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: Oh heavens no, okay, Mary Poppins, John Limley getting it

467
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: taken care of. It is hardly a way to describe

468
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: having the girl effing run over outside of school. Bobby Chicone,

469
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: FBI special Agent. Why did she was she so intent

470
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: on having the murders occur outside? Well, and this is

471
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: one thing that the jury's going to get chilled at

472
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: is the callousness of her talk. She didn't want, she

473
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: didn't want her place to get messed up, the callousness

474
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: of you're about to murder your ex husband, the father

475
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: of your child, and your only concerns is that if

476
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: it happens inside, it might be too messy. Just got

477
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of

478
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. She officer of Valentintinelli

479
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: claims she was set up by her boyfriend. True, not true?

480
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: Not true? Mine, Good lord, you know does your mind work?

481
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: This lady has been involved in police work for years

482
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: and years and years and you guys had mentioned that

483
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: she's highly decorated. She knows how investigations work. I don't

484
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: know what in her wildest fantasies she thought that she

485
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: was going to get away with here that she didn't

486
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: think that she was going to get caught relative to

487
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: the overlapping of these circumstances with this poor little girl

488
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: that she wanted to target in addition to this man,

489
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: it's absolutely amazing. But how can they prove the boyfriend

490
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: is not setting her up? What evidence shows that? Well?

491
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: I think that they're communications, Nancy, She's what does he

492
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: have to gain with this relative to setting her up,

493
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: if you will, And what's what's the impetus behind the

494
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: whole thing? She is the igniter for this whole thing,

495
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: driving it down range. Plus they had of all of

496
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,719
Speaker 1: this other evidence or background of her violent behavior moving

497
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: forward relative to other relationships that she's been involved in.

498
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: To Dave Matt, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, how

499
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: can because we know that's where she's going, how can

500
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: the prosecutors refute her claim her boyfriend set her up? Well,

501
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: she's claiming it because you know he's the one who said, yeah,

502
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: I know a guy. Well, as soon as he said

503
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: I know a guy, he'll do it for seven grand,

504
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: he goes to the FBI. So that's how they're going

505
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: to refute that is, he immediately went to the FBI said,

506
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: hey man, this girl wants to take out of her

507
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: ex as well as my daughter. And that's when the

508
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: FBI started setting everything in motion. What's the evidence that

509
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: shows she's the mastermind? The fact that she hent to

510
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: her boyfriend and he took this, you know, the idea

511
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: of finding a guy for her. Then she went and

512
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: got the seven thousand dollars cash out of the bank

513
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: because the boyfriend said that or the hitman, the so

514
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: called FBI hit man, he wanted gold instead. So they

515
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: actually have her going and getting seven thousand dollars in

516
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: cash out of the bank and then converting it into

517
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: gold because that was how we wanted to be paid.

518
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: Bobby Chicon, if BI special agent. Have you noticed that

519
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: when you're in the force, when you're a prosecutor or

520
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: a cop or a bell bondsman, you're in the business

521
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: for a long time, you're in that maylout. You get

522
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: used to it, you get numbed to it. Not numb,

523
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: I guess numb isn't the right word. You are conditioned

524
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: to it. You're you're not shocked anymore. You accept things

525
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: more quickly than you did before you were in the

526
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: crime business. And I really think that some cops go

527
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: bad because it just it just doesn't seem that bad

528
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: to them anymore because they've been around it so much.

529
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: It's like this, the first time I ever had to curse,

530
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: I mean every foul word you can think of, the

531
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: C word, the P word, the F word, every word

532
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: you can think of. I was reading a statement to

533
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: a jury. I was telling a jury what the defendant

534
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: had said, and I had to really work myself up

535
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: to say these words out loud in front of a jury,

536
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: and they were shocked, and I was shocked. I could

537
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: hardly say it. But then the next time I said it,

538
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: Bobby Chekom wasn't so hard. Then the next time, and

539
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: before you knew it, I was just saying it all

540
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: on my own. I wasn't quoting a defendant anymore. I

541
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: had to clean up when I had the twins. Of course,

542
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: no more of that. But that's what I'm saying. You're

543
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: around this, You're around crime all the time, and somehow

544
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: to some people, it doesn't seem so bad anymore. Well,

545
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, Nancy. You know, I take my dad

546
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: as an example. He was a detective in the fifties

547
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: and sixties at the NYPD in the seventies, and yes,

548
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: while he did develop a hardened shell at work when

549
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: he saw all these things, and he couldn't react to

550
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: them as much, he couldn't be emotional at about it,

551
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: but at the same time, at home with his family,

552
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: he became more caring and more kind and more protective

553
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: because of the things he was seeing at work. And so,

554
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: you know, he drew that line, and most of us

555
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: have drawn that line. With the things we see at work,

556
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: the things we see in the street, we don't bring home.

557
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: This officer had no line. It seems like the things

558
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: that she was experienced at work, she thought we were

559
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: fine to bring home and actually do at home. So

560
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: I think that in this case the line she just

561
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: didn't have a line. And I think that many of

562
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: us developed that line where we become more caring and

563
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: more concerned, more protective at home because of the things

564
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: we see, and the more things we see at work. Well,

565
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California, prosecutor, author of red flags. That's the

566
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: way prosecution worked on me. I became more vigilant, more protective,

567
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: more alert, but I wasn't as shocked. I was still

568
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: hurt every time I would see a violent crime victim,

569
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: but I wasn't shocked anymore. After you see a thousands

570
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: and thousands, literally tens of thousands of times, you're not

571
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: shocked anymore. And I'm wondering if that's what happened to

572
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: Valoris Cincinnelli. It kind of became okay in her mind. Yeah.

573
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, you may not be shocked, but you

574
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: are still passionate about what you do. I can hear

575
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: it in your voice every time you discuss a segment,

576
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: So too with all my fellow guests. The passion is

577
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 1: still there, wanting justice for victims. What we just heard

578
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: was completely devoid of any of that. The laughing and

579
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: in discussing, well, how is it going to happen, the

580
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: date that it would be convenient, Those kinds of things

581
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 1: really evinces. I think one of your other guests said,

582
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: almost a callousness that goes above and beyond simply becoming

583
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: desensitized because you work law enforcement for too many years

584
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: that tape and that voice, that is what's going to

585
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 1: be most persuasive to a jury. You just can't capture

586
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 1: that through a transcriptor through somebody else describing what she said.

587
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: It is that I suppose lack of passion and concern

588
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: that I think is going to be most telling when

589
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 1: it's gets in front of a trial too. Karen's Dark

590
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: New York Psychology just joining us. The judge has just

591
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,919
Speaker 1: ordered a psychiatric evaluation. Could this be a different strategy

592
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 1: that she is using and will it work? It won't

593
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: work Nancy, because it's very clear that she knows the

594
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 1: difference between right and wrong. She actually was the one

595
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: that she was the mastermind. She set this whole thing up.

596
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: She was not even upset. She was glad to hear

597
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: that this fake story that her X was dead. She acted,

598
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: you know that, as though she was hysterical. She did

599
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: a really good acting job. So she definitely knew what

600
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: she was doing. And even though it's hard for people

601
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: to believe that anybody who was saying could do something

602
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: like this, that's who this person is. That's exactly who

603
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: she is. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace crime

604
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,240
Speaker 1: story signing off, Goodbye friend,