WEBVTT - Vaccine Suit, State Judicial Races, Trans Protections 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.800 This is Bloomberg Law. A divided Supreme Court rejects a 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:09.800 religious challenge. Tell us a little about the facts of 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:13.600 the case. In interviews with prominent attorneys in Bloomberg Legal experts, 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:16.919 I guess his former federal prosecutor Jimmy Garula. Joining me 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:20.760 is Bloomberg Law reporter Jordan Ruben and analysis of important 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.160 legal issues, cases and headlines. The Supreme Court takes on 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:28.520 state secrets. Multiple lawsuits were filed against the emergency rule? 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.599 Is this lawsuit? For real? Bloomberg Law with June Grasso 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:39.519 from Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Show. I'm 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.040 Greg Store and I'm Lady Wheeler. We're in for June Grasso. 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:45.960 Coming up on the show, we'll talk with Jake Belsheni 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.720 at the Alliance for Justice Action Fund about state Supreme 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.640 Court judicial races and why these are courts worth paying 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:55.440 attention to. And Jennifer Levi, director of glad's Transgender Rights Project, 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.720 will join us to talk about a recent federal Appeals 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.840 Court decision that gives transgender workers honor legal protections. But 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:05.520 first we're joined by Bloomberg News reporter Angelica Peebles to 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:08.840 discuss the new lawsuit they're enough filed against Fiser over 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:13.080 the technology used to create the COVID nineteen vaccine. Angelica, 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.880 thanks for joining us. Tell us why Moderna is filing 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.520 the suit and what the company is alleging. Maderna says 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.560 they're filing this lawsuit now because they are trying to 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:26.120 protect their MR and a technology platform that they've spent 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.680 the past decade or so making, and they're saying that 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.840 they're claiming that Fiser and bion Tech knowingly copied some 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:38.680 of the key elements of Maderna's patented technology. And so 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:43.000 they're not trying to actually stop the sale of their 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.360 COVID vaccine or do anything that would interfere with the 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:51.760 vaccination campaign, but they do want some some monetary um, 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.880 you know, some money from them starting this spring and 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:57.840 going forward. So we'll have to see how it plays out, 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.800 um in the court. But um, you could see that, um, 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.400 you know, it's a big deal for for the companies 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.280 and also you know, just the public at large watching this. 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:12.040 Tell us what Maderna is after in this litigation and 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:14.080 what's the likelihood that the company is going to be 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:18.480 successful here. Yeah, So Maderna is not seeking to stop 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:22.119 the sale of Fisor and BioNTech vaccine, but they are 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.360 seeking what would be essentially a loyalty, so you know, 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:28.400 a cut of the money that they make on the 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.799 sales of their vaccine. And they're saying that they only 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:35.680 want some money UM starting from earlier this spring and 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:39.240 going forward and only in high income countries. And it's 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.840 a little complicated, but it has to do with the 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:45.280 fact that Maderna made this pledge UM two years ago 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:49.239 saying that it would not enforce its patents during the pandemic, 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:53.799 and then this spring they said, never mind, Actually we 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:57.359 are only going to in for to not enforce our 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.560 patents in low income countries. So it's the way that 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.360 all of those steps have played out. It seems like 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.919 they're trying to match up by saying, you know, now 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.000 we are only seeking money from this period of time. 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.280 But the real question is whether they can go back 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.119 on that pledge that they made two years ago. UM. 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.560 One legal expert we spoke to said that they can't UM. 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:22.880 So that's something that will be really interesting to watch. 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:27.280 So is that pledge something that Fiser and Biotech can 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:31.040 use in their defense against this lawsuit? Yea, so um. 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.160 Jorge can Trist, the professor from the University of Utah 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.280 who we spoke to. He says that under the law, 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:42.920 these patent pledges are considered contracts, so the companies it's 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.280 a public company, they made a public statement and other 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:49.560 companies UM can use that information to make decisions about 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.800 their own strategies, which obviously Fiser and bion Tech went 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:57.480 out and introduced their own COVID vaccine, so they could 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:01.080 argue that they were just opera wading under you know, 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:05.560 under um the assumption that Maderna was not going to 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.560 enforce his patents. So at the least the way he 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.880 um he sees it, either and BioNTech have a pretty 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:14.920 good defense here. It might not even get into all 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.440 of the details of the patents and you know who 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.880 used what and what was patented and what wasn't. But 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.919 that could be that contract, the patent pledge could be 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:28.080 a solid defense. Or Fiser and BioNTech didn't this lawsuit 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:32.080 have any impact on the company's market shares for either 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:34.960 Maderna or Fiser, so they did see a little bit 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.840 of a hit the other day. UM. You know these 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.640 things they're not expecting Analysts are not expecting it to 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.240 be a big money maker for either um for Maderna, 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.320 if they even do win. And that's just because according 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.440 to precedent that we haven't seen a huge impact like 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:55.760 these payments haven't been jaw dropping, especially in the context 0:04:55.800 --> 0:05:00.800 of the billions of dollars that Maderna has made so far. UM. 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.200 But of course these things take a long time, they're expensive, 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.479 so I think you can imagine that investors are a 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.240 little bit nervous to see what exactly happens and the 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.160 impact it has on all of the companies involved. So 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.279 news of this lawsuit comes out just as we're learning 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.520 we're all going to be eligible for another shot after 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:26.000 labor Day. Well, this lawsuit uh potentially have any effect 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:30.760 on the availability of future COVID shots from our understanding, No, 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.159 because Madernas says they're not trying to stop the production 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:38.200 or stop the sale of Fiser and bion text COVID vaccine. 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.720 So the way at least the complaint was written and 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.800 the damages they're seeking, it doesn't seem that there will 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.200 be any any disruption there. And I'm curious if this 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.680 if there could be any ulterior motives here on Maderna's 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.440 behalf as to why they're bringing this lawsuit against Fiser. Yeah, 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.040 well they're saying that they're trying to protect the technology 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:01.960 that they've spent so long trying to develop, so you 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.640 could see that as well. They're trying to make sure 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:08.719 this doesn't happen again. You know, if if Fiser Bronte 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.839 did even infurage on their patents, which obviously the companies 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:15.680 say they did not. But um Again, the legal expert 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.560 we spoke to, he said that it's probably it wouldn't 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:22.760 be surprising if Maderna has been trying to get Fiser 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.159 and bion Tech to negotiate some sort of royalty in 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.400 the background here, and maybe those talks haven't gone well, 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:34.000 and so now Maderna is going to doing the lawsuit 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.840 because of that. He says, it's a classic strategy just 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:41.159 to companies um into getting them to license technology that 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.440 you think that is yours. So that's one possibility for sure. 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:49.719 That's Bloomberg News reporter Angelica Peoples, you're listening to Bloomberg Law. 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.760 Up next, we talk about state Supreme Court judicial races 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:55.719 and which ones are worth paying attention to. I'm Widio Wheeler. 0:06:56.040 --> 0:07:08.720 And I'm Greg Store. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloombird 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:13.760 Law with June Brusso from bloom Bird Radio. I'm Lidia 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:16.760 Wheeler and I'm Greg Store. We're in for June Brasso. 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.600 State Supreme court races in a number of states are 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.080 being closely watched this year for their potential to affect 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.920 a host of issues, including congressional maps and abortion restrictions. 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:30.120 We're joined now by Jake Valaskini, legal director at the 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.640 Progressive Alliance for Justice Action Fund, which has been tracking 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:39.000 these races. So, Jake, UM, Michigan, North Carolina, Illinois, and 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.280 Ohio are or for the states that have been highlighted 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.520 as having particularly important races. Can you just tell us 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.920 generally why those four races are such a big deal. Sure, 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:51.960 and thank you much so much for having me on. 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.160 I really appreciate it. Um. So, all four of those 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:59.720 states or states where you have a fairly divided electorate um, 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.840 and also where you have a divided supreme court ideologically, 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:08.400 so generally speaking, in Michigan we have a four three 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:13.160 democratic majority on that Supreme Court. In North Carolina we 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:17.400 also have a four three democratic majority on that Supreme Court. 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:23.240 And in Illinois, we have a four three Democratic majority 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:27.280 on that Supreme Court. In Ohio, however, we have a 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:32.720 three three one Supreme Court with three Democrats, three Republicans, 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:37.360 and one independent who is a Republican that sometimes sides 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:42.080 with the Democrats on issues of democracy and voting rights. 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:49.240 Talk about why, UM, party control matters here and um, 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.920 you know, how these races could impact which party is 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:57.800 in control. Sure, generally speaking, UM, what we've seen, at 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.440 least over the last ten to fifteen years, a sort 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:06.560 of consolidation around issues of democracy, UM in differences between 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:11.160 Republicans and Democrats and how they how they approach those 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:16.359 issues of democracy. Republicans have tended to be more restrictive 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:21.080 on on voting, on access to the polls, on redistricting, 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:26.320 on jerrymanderin, whereas Democrats have tended to be more open 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.360 on those issues, more liberal on those issues, trying to 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:33.280 expand the franchise, expand the right, protect the rights of 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.880 minorities to vote when they're being restricted. For several of 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.680 those states going forward, uh, some with with litigation that 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:44.680 is currently pending. Other with litigation that we uh, you know, 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:46.600 we can't foresee it might come out of a future 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.840 election UM, the justices who sits on those courts might 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:57.200 matter forward, how those how those different cases are decided. Yeah, 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.319 so you recently tweeted that the state Supreme Court races 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.920 in in Wisconsin, which I guess is next April, as 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.240 well as the ones in Michigan, North Carolina, and Ohio 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:10.079 this fall, are about as important to our democracy as 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.680 these things get. Can you dive into that a little 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.440 bit more? Why? Why are these races so important? Sure? 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.360 I'd be happy to um so. I think Michigan is 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.440 a perfect example of why these sorts of races are 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:27.640 extremely important. UM. In Michigan, after the elections, several lawsuits 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.600 were brought in front of the state UH state courts 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:36.400 UM challenging the results UH in UM at least one 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:41.320 four three case, the Democratic majority concluded that the election 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.960 results should be certified. Had they not been certified and 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.480 in a timely matter, UM, that could have allowed even 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:54.080 more chicanery to happen in UH in the final determination 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:59.720 of the election result nationally UM in UH and in 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:05.920 after the current election cycles, who who are in those 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:10.760 positions deciding those election case outcomes could be determinative of 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:15.720 how elections are certified UM. Same. I think it's true 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:19.720 also in Wisconsin, where currently you have a four three 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:25.720 Republican Supreme Court UM, and that court has overwhelmingly decided 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:29.200 to restrict voting rights UM in several decisions that have 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:33.600 come down over the past decade UM and UH. In 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:39.240 next year's election, Wisconsin voters will have the opportunity to 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:44.680 change potentially the partisan makeup of that court, flipping it 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:48.080 to a four three Democratic majority UM, in which case 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.960 I think that you would see that that Supreme Court 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:55.800 would be UH much more responsive to concerns over UH 0:11:56.200 --> 0:12:04.160 over issues of redistricting, voter restriction, UM, limiting ballot boxes, 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.120 that sort of things. There seems to be more of 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.080 a focus on state supreme courts now than there has 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.280 been in the past, and I was wondering to what 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:18.440 extent is the US Supreme Courts abortion decision driving that UM. 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.599 I think it is definitely driving that. We've seen a 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:28.439 huge concern over UM state constitutional rights to an abortion 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:33.720 UM and and a renewed focus on this issue. UM. 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:37.760 I think that that's a good thing. Generally, UM state 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:43.560 Supreme courts have always determined many of our rights and liberties. UM. 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.880 State Supreme courts. Here of all of the lawsuits that 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:53.080 are filed in America every year, UM, and they've always 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:57.920 had an outweighed um uh impact on our rights and liberties. 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.760 The fact that people are paying more attention now UM 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.920 is great. And if people UH start to consider whether 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.400 or not our state constitutions might afford even greater rights 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:12.280 and liberties that are federal uh constitution does, UM, then 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.240 I think that that can be incredibly positive for the 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.600 rights of many. Although it isn't a complete band aid 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.800 for the fact that the you know, the U. S. 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.840 Supreme Court is stripping away so many important rights nationally. 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.480 Let's just take a step back and and talk about 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.280 how state Supreme Court justices get on the court in 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.880 the first place. We've been talking about some states where 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.480 voters go to the polls and vote on state Supreme 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.440 Court justices. But it does vary a bit from state 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:42.840 to state, right, it does. That's correct. UM. Generally speaking, 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.920 about half of the justices in the United States. State 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.560 Supreme Court justices in the United States each year are 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.120 elected and half are appointed. UM. Of those that are 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:58.040 elected again about half and half. It's not completely accurate, 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:03.800 but it's a close estimate. Are elected nonpartisan races and 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.120 about half of those that are elected or elected in 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:10.720 partisan races. UM. So, like you said, it varies widely 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.920 state to state. There are two real anomalies where the 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:19.680 legislature picks the justices in those states. That's in South 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.440 Carolina and Virginia. UM. And even in those states, what 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.880 they're where justices are elected. Uh, it's a little bit 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.480 different when those justices might appear on the ballot. What's 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.560 in whether it's in an odd year and h or 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:39.080 in an even year presidential, congressional um. So, every state 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.840 does it a little bit different. Um. And so it's 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.960 it's not surprising that folks around the country might might 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:49.040 not know exactly how how the judges and justices and 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:53.080 their states are picked. You're listening to Bloomberg Law. Up next, 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.560 we continue our conversation with Jake Paliskini, legal director at 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:00.480 Alliance for Justice Action Fund. I'm Greg Store and I'm 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:13.440 Lydia Wheeler. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Law with 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:19.000 June Grasso from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Greg Store and I'm 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.960 Lydia Wheeler. We're in for June Grasso. We've been talking 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.760 with Jake Falskini legal director and Alliance for Justice Action Fund, 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.360 which has been tracking state Supreme court races. Jake, how 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.520 common is it for state Supreme Court justices to lose 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:37.000 a retention election? And does this happen when there's a 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:41.000 coordinated effort by Republicans to house someone? Um. That's a 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.720 great question. So it happened, happened that often in history, 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.840 but there are some reason recent examples of when it's happened, 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:54.160 especially when you have coordinated and well funded attacks on 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:58.400 current sitting justices. UM. So. A couple of good examples 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:02.760 of this that folks normally point you historically are back 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.720 in the early two thousands when the Illinois State Supreme 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:11.680 Court found a constitutional right for lgbt Q folks to 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:18.040 marry UM. After that, Republicans and conservative organizations launched a 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:22.920 coordinated uh uh sitting in Supreme Court justices who had 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:27.360 ruled in favor of that constitutional right UM and UH, 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.880 and three of those justices were outsted from the court. UM. 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:35.160 Similar instances have happened, say, in Illinois, a siting Supreme 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:39.720 Court justice lost the retention election in UM. In Michigan, 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.720 this happened a few years ago as well. UM and 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:47.680 other attacks have been launched against current sitting justices UM. 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.560 Ultimately many of those were unsuccessful, but sometimes they do happen. 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.920 How much does money play a role in all this? 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:00.600 Are we seeing just a significant at all amount of 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:06.120 money going into state supreme court races and retention battles? Yes, 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:10.320 absolutely it plays a huge role. UM Our friends at 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.639 the Brennan Center have done a great job tracking the 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:17.600 flood of money into judicial elections over time, UM and 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.080 I would highly suggest that listeners take a look at 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.119 their great resources on the state supreme courts and and 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:28.040 money that bloods into those races. But generally speaking, over time, 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.560 we've seen a huge increase in the amount of money 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:36.080 that's gone into these judicial elections UM and UH and 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:40.399 often not times those are coordinated by groups that have 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:45.080 a very particular idea of what results they want out 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:47.919 of the election, And often what we also see is 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:52.120 that the advertising doesn't necessarily match up with the end 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:56.120 results that they want. So business groups will often, for example, 0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:00.480 launch attacks on justices where they don't like the outcome 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:04.960 of business decisions in their cases. Yet their advertising will 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:08.800 often focus on issues of criminal law. UM and focus 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:14.480 on UM, you know, advertisements that might impugne the justices 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:18.240 around their decisions on criminality and other issues like that. 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.320 Let's talk a little bit about the particular states, um 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.960 with these races that are worth worth watching. UM, can 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.199 you talk to us about what's happening in Illinois, Like 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:31.240 what are the issues that could come before the state 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:35.800 Supreme Court there, um where an ideological shift would make 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:40.200 a big impact. So, I going back to your earlier question, 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:41.879 I think one of the most obvious is going to 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:45.960 be abortion. UM. That issue could definitely come back before 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:49.359 the Illinois Supreme Court. UM if that court were to 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:54.440 flip from liberal to more conservative majority. If that were 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.520 to happen, then you know, it becomes a question as 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:00.320 to whether or not the right to an abortion could 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:05.320 still be deemed legal in Illinois. And that has a 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:12.879 huge downstream effect on other Midwestern states because Illinois dipped 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.560 so deep into the Midwest, UM that the right to 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:20.959 an abortion is often protected for other Midwestern people, UM 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.760 through Illinois still having that right. There are so many 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.000 issues and many other issues that are going to be 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:30.399 in front of that state state Supreme Court. Issues of 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.960 business law and issues of UM, you know, criminal rights 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.520 and UM. All all sorts of other issues would come 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.560 before that court too. And one one other state we've 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.240 talked about a little bit is Ohio. Are the issues 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:49.200 the same there or are they different from Illinois? In Ohio, 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.639 the you have many of the same issues. But also 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:58.120 I would just stress the importance of democracy cases there. Um, 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.760 you have a state legislature in Ohio and a state 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:06.359 governor that have done everything that they possibly can really 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.840 to restrict the right to vote in that state. Hundreds 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:13.600 of thousands of voters are stripped from the roles every 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:19.119 year in Ohio. Um, they've gerrymandered the state legislature to 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:24.240 an incredible degree. Um, there really is uh. There are 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:28.200 many cases there uh to protect the right to vote 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:35.280 that I think um would be extremely uh uh under 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:40.439 threat with a more conservative court there. That's Jake Falaskini 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:44.080 at Alliance for Justice Action Fund. Thanks for joining us, Jake, 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:46.639 thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:49.479 You're listening to Bloomberg Law. Up next, we're joined by 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.560 Jennifer Levi, director of Glad's Transgender Rights Project, to talk 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:56.600 about a recent appeals court decision that expanded legal protections 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:00.520 for transgender workers I'm Lidia Wheeler and I'm egg Store. 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:14.760 This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:20.119 from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Lidia Wheeler and I'm gregg Store. 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.440 We're in for June Grasso. Earlier this month, the Fourth 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.360 US Circuit Court of Appeals declared gender dysphoria a disability 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:30.480 under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Joining us now is 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:35.040 Jennifer Levi, director of glad's transgender Rights Project. GLAD stands 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:39.359 for the g l B t Q legal advocates and defenders. Jennifer, 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:41.760 thanks for joining us. UM talked a little bit about 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:45.000 this ruling, call us how significant it is and what 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:49.320 it means for transgender and gender fluid people. Yeah, so 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:52.560 thanks for having me, and yeah, this is a really 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:56.800 important decision that makes it clear that there's no exclusion 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:00.119 under the a d A for disability claims that are 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:04.520 brought by transgender people. The reality is because of both 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:08.320 misunderstandings about gender dysphoria as a health condition and also 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:12.120 because of outdated language in the a d A. There 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:16.040 have been people and courts that have um in the 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:20.440 past said that transgender people can't bring disability claims, and 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:24.679 this really clarifies that individuals can which is very important 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:29.040 source of federal protections. Can you explain what gender dysphoria 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:31.960 is and how someone um with it might benefit from 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:36.439 being covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act? Yeah, absolutely so. 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:41.600 Gender dysphoria is the clinically significant distress that a transgender 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:46.159 person experiences if they can't live consistent with the gender 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:49.080 identity that they know themselves to be. So, for example, 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:52.879 a transgender woman as somebody who has assigned the sex 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:58.040 of mail at birth but has the identity and internalized 0:22:58.040 --> 0:23:01.080 experience of being a female, and of gender dysphoria is 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:03.920 the experience that that individual has if they can't live 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:07.560 as a woman. How did this ruling by the Fourth 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:10.800 Circuit come about? What was the underlying dispute that that 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:13.560 got us here? Yeah, So the underslying dispute in this 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:17.800 case was that there is was the transgender woman who 0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:24.000 was um incarcerated and denied medical treatment and made to 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:29.360 reside with men despite having lived as a woman, and 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:33.280 so she brought claim under this very important source of 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:38.280 federal protections against discrimination because of having a stigmatized medical condition. 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:43.560 And the court decision in this case makes clear that 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:48.680 she has to be fairly treated, and that fair treatment 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:52.679 has to take into account the medical condition that she experiences. 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:55.560 And so basically it means, you know that trans gender 0:23:55.640 --> 0:24:00.760 women have to be treated UM. In this case, it 0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:03.680 was UM in a prison, but the A d A 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:08.200 applies in other contexts, including in workplaces and public accommodations 0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:10.840 and other public institutions, and so she has to be 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:14.280 treated like other women would be treated. Can you give 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:18.000 us some specific examples about how people transgender people could 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:20.720 benefit by being covered under the A D A. I mean, 0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:23.560 I know that you you mentioned accommodations, um, you mentioned 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:25.640 things in the workplace. Can you give us some examples 0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:29.879 as to how this could be a benefit. Yeah, absolutely so, 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:33.800 I mean the workplace provides a lot of uh examples 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:37.520 where um, you know, it's really important for a transgender 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:40.200 woman to be treated like other women. It may involve 0:24:40.600 --> 0:24:45.000 um uh making sure that uh you can you know, 0:24:45.040 --> 0:24:47.359 if there's a dress code in the workplace conformed with 0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:52.119 a female dress code. Certainly, if there are accommodations for 0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:55.680 changing or for restroom access, making sure that she has 0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:59.520 access to those um for trans for transgender people who 0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:03.920 might UM, taking you know, a period of time to transition. 0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:11.920 Then it's important that they get them accommodations or any 0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:14.840 kind of medical care that they might need during a 0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:17.920 particular gap of time. So, I mean, one of the 0:25:18.000 --> 0:25:19.680 things I want to say is that, you know, the 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:23.880 ADA has been such an important source of protection for 0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:27.879 people who are fully capable of contributing and working but 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:33.399 are facing barriers because of the stigma and misunderstandings associated 0:25:33.400 --> 0:25:36.359 with some underlying medical condition. And this is such an 0:25:36.359 --> 0:25:39.679 important decision because it really levels the playing field for 0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:43.280 transgender people in those um series like the workplays or 0:25:43.280 --> 0:25:47.720 public institutions where the ad A applies. Let me dig 0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:50.920 in a little bit to the legal battle here. So 0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:54.800 the A d A includes some language that says this 0:25:54.880 --> 0:26:00.360 law excludes people with gender identity disorders now, and that 0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:02.600 that's a phrase that we don't use anymore, and perhaps 0:26:02.600 --> 0:26:06.240 more importantly, psychiatrists don't use anymore, isn't it though? Or 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:08.840 the argument, at least from the Descent and the other 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:11.760 side in this case was that it is an indication 0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:15.320 that may be Congress meant to exclude transgender and gender 0:26:15.359 --> 0:26:19.920 fluid people from the statute. What's the counter to that? Yeah, 0:26:19.960 --> 0:26:23.480 I mean, so what the majority said is that that 0:26:23.640 --> 0:26:29.359 language of gender identity disorders is outdated, um and doesn't 0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:33.480 reflect the current medical understanding of gender dysphoria, which is 0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:40.320