1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello everyone, 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Billett, and 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: I am an editor at how stuff works dot com. 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: Sitting across from me, as he always does when when 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: you record podcasts, and occasionally other times, his senior writer 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, he could play a guitar just like he 9 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: was ringing a bell. Nice of you to be good. Yeah, 10 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: so you gotta you gotta make a leap on that one. 11 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: It's not just the song. Who who made that song famous? 12 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: And what was that guy's name? And now it makes sense, 13 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about the story of m Yes, and uh, 14 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,319 Speaker 1: you know, I think RIM is a less famous name 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: than the name of its flagship product. But we are 16 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: talking about Research in Motion, which is a Canadian company. Uh, 17 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: several people have written in to ask us if we 18 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: could talk about it. Yeah, lots of lots of people 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: were interested in this, and we've referred to RIM quite 20 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: a few times in other podcasts. Because the flagship product 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: that Chris was alluding to is the BlackBerry, which is 22 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: one of the smartphones that really kind of uh well, really, 23 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: the BlackBerry was the smartphone for the longest time. I mean, 24 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: the BlackBerry line was pretty much the smartphone that everyone 25 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: was familiar with and very few people outside of the 26 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: corporate world owned. But uh, you know, RIM became famous 27 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: because they had the company had this line of smartphones 28 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: and they had kind of a almost a lock on 29 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: the smartphone market. I mean really the only major competitor 30 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: in the United States anyway, and other parts of the 31 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: world that was different, but in the United States, the 32 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: other major competitor was Palm. Yes, so you had like 33 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: the Palm Trio and then you had the BlackBerry, and 34 00:01:55,480 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: you had people who were fanatically devoted to either, although 35 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: BlackBerry again still had more of a corporate kind of 36 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: culture to it because they RIM had incorporated the Microsoft 37 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: Exchange server software in the BlackBerry form factor very early on, 38 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: so it was very useful for anyone who worked for 39 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: a company that used Microsoft Exchange servers, and that's quite 40 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: a few of them. Of course, lots of people are 41 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: using lots of companies are using Outlook essentially as their 42 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 1: main male feature that you know, there are other companies 43 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: that use different servers for email, but the Microsoft Exchange 44 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: server is incredibly popular. But before we get into all 45 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: of that, we kind of need to go and talk 46 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: about the founding of this company, which goes all the 47 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: way back to nine Yeah. Yeah, now of course, uh 48 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: actually in in in a way, it goes back a 49 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: little farther than that, um, you know, and you'd have 50 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: to look to the University of Waterloo in Ontario, Canada. 51 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: And basically, uh, there was a student there named Mike 52 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: Lazaridis and uh you know he was he was into 53 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: electrical engineering. He was in a computer science and uh 54 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: he had been working with a company that, uh, maybe 55 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: we should talk about in the future. I don't know, 56 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: Control Data UM, long known as a one of the 57 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 1: computer pioneers UM, and he had been working with that 58 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: that company when he was in college. UM. But basically 59 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: he was working on a way to uh on a 60 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: on a project called budget And no, I'm not talking 61 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: about the percussionist for Susie and the benches thinking of 62 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: a bird or or that either it actually was a 63 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: way to display information on TVs UM and uh. He 64 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: he like many of the people we have talked about 65 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: when we talked about the tech pioneers. Came up with 66 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: this idea even before he UH finished school, and he 67 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: dropped out of the University of Water before before finishing school, 68 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: which makes him very similar to other pioneers that we've 69 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: talked about, Yes and so, UM and so he basically 70 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: decided to UH to give it a go and and 71 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: leave school, and UH came up with a company named 72 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: Paradigm Research, except that name was already taken UM and 73 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: they were trying. He tried several different names, ended up 74 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: with inspired by the the phrase poetry in motion, decided 75 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: to go with Research in Motion and the company was, 76 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: as Jonathan pointed out, officially became incorporated officially on March 77 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: seventh night. Four Yeah. He received a essentially a loan 78 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: from the Canadian government to help this, and he also 79 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: had money invested by family and friends. UH. He and 80 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: a fellow student, fellow by the name of Douglas Freegan 81 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: founded this company together. UM. Freagan became the vice president 82 00:04:54,680 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: of operations. UH Lazarides became the president and CEO UM 83 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: and UH and interestingly enough, we're back just to jump 84 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: ahead just very quickly. A. Lazarides is still a CEO 85 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: of rem it's RIM's got an interesting corporate structure and 86 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: that it has two CEOs. And we'll get into more 87 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: about that in a few, um, a few minutes when 88 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: we jump ahead in in RIM's history, now after the founding, 89 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: what's the next piece of information you have? Because I 90 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: jump ahead quite a few years, well four years? Well 91 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: they Uh, the thing is, um, the budgee didn't take 92 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: off at all, Um, but General Motors needed some LED 93 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: notification systems for their assembly lines. And uh, you know, 94 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: as you might guess, General Motors, especially back in the 95 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, would have been a huge corporate client. UM. 96 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: And that was his success, the CDs one system. And 97 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: this was General Motors of Canada. Yeah, so it was 98 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: the Canadian Canadian branch of General Motors. There are quite 99 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: a few plants up there, or were We're at that point. 100 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: They've closed a couple, I think, Um, someone will right 101 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: in and tell me that it's a lot of them. 102 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure, but um, and the National Film Board of 103 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: Canada did you know about this? Uh? They needed a 104 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: system for UH synchronizing film editing, and uh RIM built 105 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: a system for them and it actually won an Academy award. 106 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: Is this the digit sink I believe, so the digit 107 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: sinc film key code reader that was actually that took 108 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: a few years too to be introduced, That wasn't didn't 109 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: really hit the market til nineteen. But yeah, REM won 110 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: both an Oscar and an Emmy for this technology. Uh. 111 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: And here's the interesting thing. You start hearing this where 112 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: you know, here we are talking about uh film key 113 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: code readers and and and displays in an industrial automation 114 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: and you're thinking, wait a minute, that doesn't sound like 115 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,559 Speaker 1: a smartphone at all. Well, you're right. Uh, the early 116 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: days of REM, we're not focused specifically on bringing uh 117 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: telecommunications devices to market that you know, it was more 118 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: of a kind of a general purpose research technology firm. 119 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: And so you know, these early days that that kind 120 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: of I don't know, you might want to call it 121 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: a lack of focus, or you may just call it 122 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: that they were being very versatile. Uh, they were diversified, yes, 123 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: diversified good. Yes, they were taking a proactive stance. Um. Yeah, 124 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: it was interesting that they weren't really focused on telecommunications. 125 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: Now now in nine so you know ninety they've they've 126 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: introduced the key code reader. But just a couple of 127 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: years earlier, RIM became the first wireless data technology developer 128 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: in North America and the first company outside of Scandinavia 129 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: to create connectivity products for the mobile texts UH network 130 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: wireless network. Now this was a a wireless network. They 131 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: used radio frequencies. Uh. You is the packet data switching method, 132 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: which we've talked about before in this podcast. You know, 133 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: the way that you send data through packets, but in 134 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: instead of it just being through a wire where you know, 135 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: you would send us through u uh pulses of electricity, 136 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: this would be through radio frequencies and UM, so mobile 137 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: text is that was a data only actually is a 138 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: data only wireless packet switching network. So it wasn't designed 139 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: to carry voice communication. It was just data communication. And 140 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: the earliest products that that RIM focused on weren't consumer products. 141 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: They were all retail products, enterprise products of stuff for 142 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: point of point of sales terminals UH to allow point 143 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: of sales terminals to send information wirelessly to some other machine. 144 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: So again not not like something that you would immediately say, Wow, 145 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: that's that's really awesome. I can't wait to get my 146 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: hands on it, because it just wasn't meant for the 147 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: general consumer. Yeah, well, of course, the business to business 148 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: market is uh can be very very lucrative. Um. And 149 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: at the point, you know, we're talking about the late 150 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, early nineteen nineties, Uh not everyone had a 151 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: cell phone. I mean they were they you know, these 152 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: mobile products, and a lot of people had pagers, uh 153 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: in the early nineties and um, of course in in 154 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: the early nineties, that's that's sort of what RIM got into. 155 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: They started looking at the possibilities of two way wireless communications. Yeah, 156 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: that was one of the things they started to really 157 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: research once they got involved in the mobi tex network. 158 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: Now in in nineteen uh so in the introduced the 159 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: mobi Tex Protocol converter, which was the device that allowed 160 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: them to create these products that would allow them to 161 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: to tag on a converter box onto a an existing 162 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: point of sales terminal. Yea. So it's kind of like 163 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: an adapter that you could plug into your system and 164 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: use the equipment you already have, um to have this 165 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: wireless connectivity. Again, just an enterprise sort of thing, a 166 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: retail sort of thing, not a not a consumer thing. Yeah. 167 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: Point of sale is is like at the cash register itself, Yes, 168 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: where you're actually going to buy something. And then in 169 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: another person joins RIM. And this is someone who will 170 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: become very important. It's Jim Bassily and so. And at 171 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: this point, the the CEO role is divided in twain. 172 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: Lazaridis is in charge of things like product development and 173 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: research and Bassilely was sort of the the the financial 174 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: guy and the business development guy, because those two parts 175 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 1: of the CEO role, you know, just didn't didn't really 176 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: the lazardis wasn't comfortable filling both of those parts of 177 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: the role. He didn't think that he had the financial 178 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: acumen to be able to do this effectively. He thought 179 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: that there'd be a better way of leading this company. 180 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: And so that was Bassili's role when he came on. 181 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 1: And the two are still co c e O s 182 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: And that has actually led to some criticism of RIM 183 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: throughout its history, but really that criticism has wrapped up 184 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: quite a bit in and we'll we'll talk about that 185 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: when we get a little further in. Yes, Mr Bassili 186 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: actually put a quarter of a million dollars of his 187 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: own money uh into RIM at that point, so that 188 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: was a pretty substantial investment. Wouldn't be the first time 189 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: he would have to pay but we'll get into that too. 190 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: That that that's a there was. Rims also had a 191 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: history of some pretty nasty legal battles, but that's that's 192 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: in the late nineties and further on. Yeah, as a 193 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: matter of fact, a couple of the timelines that I 194 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: looked at, we're almost all about the legal battles. Yeah. No, 195 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: there's a there's a stretch in the two thousand era 196 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: where that's you know, there was no focus on the 197 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: actual products, at least in the research I looked at 198 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: as well. So in UH in ninety four we've got 199 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: RIM offering its own point of sales terminal. So now 200 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: now the technology has been incorporated directly into UH into 201 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: terminals so that people can companies can buy them directly 202 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 1: from RIM and they don't have to try and incorporate 203 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: one technology with another. UH. And then in nine RIM 204 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: introduces the Freedom, which is a pc m c I 205 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: a radio modem for computers. PC m c I A 206 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: stands for Personal Computer Memory Card. International Association has several 207 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: different types of cards, some of which are used to 208 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: add memory to a computer, but the type two pc 209 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: m c I a card is meant as a modem card. Right, 210 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: So It's basically a a a card that you plug 211 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: into the insides of your computer. Ye, mainly laptops. Actually, 212 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: a lot of laptops had expansion ports that you could 213 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: you could plug a card into that one expansion port 214 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: and it would allow you to do whatever, you know, 215 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: increase the memory. And in this case, what it was 216 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: doing is it was giving you a radio modem so 217 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: that you can have wireless connectivity with your laptop, which 218 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: was you know, that was a pretty new thing. There 219 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: weren't a whole lot of solutions out there, and so 220 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: RIM was kind of getting into that. And in nineties six, 221 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: RIM introduced the interactive pager, which is probably the most 222 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: one of the most irritating lee spelled products of all time. 223 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: Why because it has an act sign for the instead 224 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: of a so that that irritates me. Well it um. 225 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: It was sort of a revolutionary product. It's time though, 226 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: because most pagers, uh, you know, we're one way. Yeah. 227 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: It meant that if you had a pager, you could 228 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: receive messages on it, and that's all you could do. 229 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: You could you could read through all those messages. But 230 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: if someone sent you a page, you know, you would 231 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: look down you see, oh, I've got a message from 232 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: so and so, you put the pager down, you pick 233 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: up a phone, you call that person and you know, 234 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: have a discussion and rim. Because of its research in 235 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: two way communication on the mob Tex network had come 236 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: up with a way of creating a two way messaging service, 237 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: and the Interactive pager would let you do this. You 238 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: would have a it had a quarty keyboard, and it 239 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: had a little bitty screen that could show up to 240 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: four lines of text and you could get a message 241 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: from someone and you could send a message back. So 242 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: essentially your text messaging. That's that's what this technology allowed 243 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: you to do, which was new. This was not something 244 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: that was generally seen around this time. So suddenly you 245 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: could get a pager that would allow you to do 246 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: more communication where you wouldn't necessarily have to go and 247 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: find a phone or or carry, you know, a cell phone. 248 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: Along with the pager, you could actually communicate with people, 249 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: assuming that they had a device that you know, a pager, 250 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: that they could use to read the message you're sending them. 251 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: Otherwise it's still all one way, um and it do 252 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: you know how much it costs? No? Actually I don't 253 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: know that, Okay, So it's a two way pager. It 254 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: also had all the functions of a one way pager, 255 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: so it's not like it's you know, limited to that, 256 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: but a two way pager text only four lines of 257 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: text per screen. SI And that's not including the service fee. 258 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: That's that's the price of the product itself. So if 259 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: you think about that, a six hundred and seventy five 260 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: dollar two way pager, that's you know, that's that's a 261 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: chunk of change, especially when you can go out and 262 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: buy a fully featured smartphone without a contract for around 263 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: that same amount. I mean, that's pretty impressive. It's a 264 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: different world we live in now. Yeah. Yeah, and from 265 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: I've never actually seen one of these in person. I've 266 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: seen photos online, but from what I've read, it was 267 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: also a very large device, yeah, compared to especially compared 268 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: to today's technology. It was. It was sometimes called the 269 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: Rim nine hundred because that's how many pounds it weighed. No, no, 270 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: it was. But but it had a flip top, you know, 271 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: you would talk, you would lift the lid up and 272 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: that had the screen on it. Then you had the 273 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: full quarty keyboard beneath you folded it down. It was 274 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: like a brick and uh yeah it was it was big, 275 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: um and it but it kind of paved the way 276 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: for RIM's future. So in ven, this is the year 277 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: after they've introduced the interactive pager, RIM becomes a publicly 278 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: traded company on the Toronto Stock Exchange. Right, that helped 279 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: him raise quite a bit of money, about well more 280 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: than a hundred and fifteen million dollars um. Which when 281 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: you're a company that's that's getting its foothold, that that's 282 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: a lot of money. Yeah, that's that's a ton yeah. Yeah. 283 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: And so RIM joins the other Toronto Stock Exchange staples 284 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: like poutine and then in what Canadians are Too Nice 285 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: to be mean to Me? I Love Poutine. In ninety eight, 286 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 1: Rim introduces the nine fifty wireless handheld device. Now, this 287 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: one is a much smaller to a pager. This is 288 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: the one that a lot of people remember when they 289 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,719 Speaker 1: think back to the old RIM pagers. This is this 290 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: is the form factor that was really familiar to them. 291 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: Um and it also introduced, uh they licensed to technology 292 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 1: from Puma Technology, the Intel Osinc synchronization platform, which actually 293 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: allowed for sinking with the device, and before that it 294 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: didn't have that capability. So now this two way pager 295 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: has sinking capabilities, so you can sink it with another device, 296 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: and it also could run applications written in CE language. 297 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: Um oh, and I guess we can take just a 298 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: brief moment and and acknowledge the fact that the week 299 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: we're recording this is sadly the same week we learned 300 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: of the passing of the man who wrote the C 301 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: programming language. So, uh so, rest in peace, Mr Ritchie. 302 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: Uh So they the the M nine fifty wireless handheld 303 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 1: can run CE language programs. Actually read about a guy 304 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: who used to have a version of Super Mario on 305 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: this little pager. Really, yeah, he had a C programming 306 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: language version of Super Mario that he would play on 307 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: this pager. I can't imagine that would be terribly satisfying, 308 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: but it was interesting. Well yeah, I imagine so. Um 309 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 1: and so this one again was smaller than the nine 310 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: hundred that we talked about a little bit ago, and 311 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: it still had the quirty keyboard in the little screen. Right. 312 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: Um yeah. At this point, RIM has become one of 313 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: Canada's fastest growing tech companies. Um. You know, and it's 314 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: actually it's it's funny because um, from what I understand, 315 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: the campus is right there at the University of Waterloo, 316 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: right next door. Essentially UM syphiling off engineering students as 317 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: fast as possible, probably UM. But some people have started 318 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: calling this part of you know, the Kitchener Waterloo area 319 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: as a silicon valley north. UM. I don't know that 320 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: there's much of a valley, but you know, I guess 321 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: it's just the the slang for the term. But yeah, 322 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: ninety nine is when they rim became listed on the 323 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: NASDAC stock Exchange, which helped the company get another two 324 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: fifty million dollars UM. And this is the point at 325 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: which the device is The little buttons on the outside 326 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: of the devices are beginning to remind some people of 327 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,919 Speaker 1: of seeds on the outside of fruit, which is how 328 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: apparently the BlackBerry got its name. Although when BlackBerry was 329 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: first announced, it was just a wireless email solution. It 330 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: wasn't specifically u attributed to a particular product, so in 331 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: other words, you didn't call your phone a BlackBerry. At 332 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: this point, Yeah, the BlackBerry referred to the technology that 333 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: allowed to access email. And this is where black BlackBerry 334 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: introduces the enterprise server software for Microsoft Exchange. So now 335 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: we've got the devices that will allow you to access 336 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: your corporate email or your Microsoft Exchange email if it's 337 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,719 Speaker 1: not necessarily corporate, it's just that was the most common. UM. 338 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: But it would allow you to check email on devices. 339 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: It still didn't have a phone, so this is more 340 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: like a personal digital assistant. But they introduced the RIM 341 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: eight fifty wireless handheld and which looked a lot like 342 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: the nine fifty, except now the eight fifty runs on 343 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: the data attack wireless network. The nine ft is on 344 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: the mobile text wireless network. So these are two different 345 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: wireless technologies. And that might sound strange to you, except 346 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: that we still see that kind of stuff today. I 347 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: mean we see it in multiple UH areas, because we've 348 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: got C d M A versus G s M. Those 349 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: are two different wireless technologies. You've got things like Wi 350 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: max and LTE, those are two different wireless technology. So uh. 351 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,719 Speaker 1: In other words, BlackBerry was trying to broaden its market 352 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: by creating devices that could work on other wireless networks 353 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: so that they could reach more consumers. And uh, the 354 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: eight fifty is UM as as far as I can tell. 355 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 1: The eight fifty is the device that really started the 356 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: ball rolling in a way and just it's the it's 357 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: the device that got uh people to really sit up 358 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: and take notice, and people wanted to buy it. Um right, 359 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: you know this is this is a narrow and a 360 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: lot not everyone still not everyone had personal email, the 361 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: corporate email. Well that was very useful and people it 362 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: was really starting to take off and it was it's important. 363 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: Now all of a sudden, you're able to keep up 364 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: with things that are going on in the office, um 365 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: conveniently while you are out and about, while you're at lunch, um, 366 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: while you're at home. You don't have to find a 367 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: computer to log in and more. You can just check 368 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: it and it's easy to do, so easy in fact, 369 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: that people kind of want to do it, which is 370 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: why you couldn't get people to leave them alone. It's 371 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: also why we call them crackberries. Uh now after the 372 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: addictive drug. In two thousand, the RIM introduced the eight 373 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: fifty seven and the ninety seven wireless handheld devices. This 374 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: is these are the ones that really looked like p 375 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: D as you know, they had the monochrome screen. Uh, 376 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: they had a larger so the screens larger, the quarty 377 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: keyboards spread out there that these are the devices that 378 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: look a little more squar ish or even rectangular, where 379 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: you've got a lot more real estate for the screens. 380 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: And in uh in two thousand one, Uh, that's where 381 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 1: we start getting into some legal issues. So two thousand one, 382 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: a group of investors file a lawsuit in a US 383 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: federal court and they they accuse RIM of using of 384 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: infringing patents held by a patent company called n TP. 385 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: Now you may have heard our Yeah, if you heard 386 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: of our our Patent Wars podcast, we talked about there 387 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: were there are companies out there that really what they 388 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: do is they acquire patents and then they either license 389 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: those patents out to other companies that want to use 390 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: the technology, or they sit on the patents and wait 391 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: for someone to infringe on them and then sue the 392 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: dickens out of them. Yeah, that's the problem with getting 393 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: people to sit up and take notice of you. That 394 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: also means that people sit up and take notice of you. 395 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: NTP noticed Um also in two thousand just as a note, 396 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: the company raised another nine fifty million dollars by offering 397 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: more shares of stock they were gonna need um. But yeah, 398 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: I mean, at this point, RIM is a well established 399 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: company two thousand, which is what sixteen years or so 400 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: after it's founding incorporate well formal uh incorporation corporation. So, um, yeah, 401 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: I mean at this point they're they're a well known 402 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: tech company. They're they're really making a mark in the world. 403 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: And NTP sets up and goes we got toused. So 404 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: two thousand two is a huge year for for M 405 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: and they released the BlackBerry five eight one zero, which 406 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: is the first handheld device that actually is called a BlackBerry. 407 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: The other ones had the BlackBerry technology in them, but 408 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: you didn't necessarily call it a BlackBerry, although a lot 409 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: of people use as as kind of the short form 410 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: version of the name, like when you talk about a 411 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: Windows based computer and you call it AC. Yeah. So 412 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: the BlackBerry five eight one zero first the first true BlackBerry. 413 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: It was also a smartphone, although it required a separate 414 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: headset to use as a phone, and it worked on 415 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: the GSM network had a monochrome screen. And then later 416 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: that year M released the six seven one zero and 417 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: six seven two zero phones, which had integrated phones directly 418 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: into the hand set itself, so you didn't have to 419 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: have a separate headset to use the phone. They also 420 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: released the six five one zero. So this is the 421 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: other thing about BlackBerry. They have really catching names for 422 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: their devices. Six zero was the next Tell device, so 423 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: it not only had the the BlackBerry Email service and 424 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: all of that fun stuff, it also had a walkie 425 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: talkie feature over breaker breaker uh. And then later on 426 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: they introduced another one of the next tells. Uh. Actually 427 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: a couple of years later, but they introduced a Next 428 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: Tell phone that was the first BlackBerry to hold have 429 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: a GPS receiver in it. Um, they introduced the first 430 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: c d M a BlackBerry, which was the six seven 431 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: five zero. You're never gonna keep all these straight. We 432 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: should write a quiz for this and all they are 433 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: the numbers, and I would just be evil, all right. 434 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: So then um, they also introduced a Mobile Data Service, 435 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: which was an environment for apps that could access corporate data. Now, 436 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: RIM has never really gotten wholeheartedly into the whole apps game. Uh. 437 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: They a little bit, but not like other companies like 438 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: Apple and Google. So in fact that that kind of 439 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 1: plays into why they are in the situation they're in 440 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: right now. Um. They also introduced what would later become 441 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: known as the BlackBerry Internet Service, which was what allowed 442 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: people to access email clients that were web based as 443 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: opposed to the Microsoft Exchange stuff. So they could suddenly 444 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,959 Speaker 1: and they can now access not just their corporate email, 445 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: but if they had a web based personal email address, 446 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: they could access that as well. And in two thousand two, 447 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: a jury finds in favor of nt P in their 448 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: their lawsuit about patent infringement and orders them to pay 449 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: twenty three point one million dollars. And boy does that 450 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: get more complicated. Just a few months later, that was 451 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: in November, and in in August or two thousand three, 452 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: a judge said that the BlackBerry could not be sold 453 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: in the United States. Yeah. Um, but Rim appealed that 454 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: decision and yeah, so basically they were allowed to pending 455 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: the result of the appeal. And this was important for 456 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: him because that same year they were the company started 457 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: releasing devices that were aimed more for well, they we 458 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: call them pro sumers, right, sumer. It's kind of the 459 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: early adopters. We've talked about them before in the podcast. 460 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: But they're not not your average consumer because the BlackBerry 461 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: was you know, it's kind of a luxury product for 462 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: anyone who is just interested in the smartphone and is 463 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: not going to get you know, reimbursed by their company. 464 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: But yeah, this was aimed at professionals who were interested 465 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: in smartphones, but they weren't directly tied to whatever it 466 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: is they did for a living, so they wanted as 467 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: a personal device. Um. So, of course RIM's very much 468 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 1: interested in keeping their their products up and running, especially 469 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: in the United States because that's where one of the 470 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: big markets. That's that's the location of a large market. 471 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,959 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you've got other markets for smartphones, 472 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 1: but a lot of those are already tied up by 473 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: phones coming out of Japan. So going to two thousand four, Uh, 474 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: here's something interesting. So by now they're starting to release Uh. 475 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: In two thousand three, they also started releasing Blackberries that 476 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 1: had color screens, because up to that point they were 477 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: all monochrome. But in two thousand four they releases the 478 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: BlackBerry five seven nine zero, which has a monochrome display 479 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: and no phone. And why would they do that because 480 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: people on the mobile text network really wanted to have 481 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: all these cool features and they didn't have a device 482 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: that would run on Mobile TEX network. So the five 483 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: seven nine zero was the first BlackBerry device to run 484 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: on Mobile Tex. But it couldn't have a phone because 485 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: it was data only and they didn't have a void solution. 486 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: So uh there there you go, monochrome display. It was 487 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: like it was like a device that looked like it 488 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: came out two years previously, you know, compared to the 489 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: stuff that had come out in two thousand three. Well, 490 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: two thousand four was important for another reason too. That 491 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: was when uh, when BlackBerry had more than one million 492 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: subscribers around the world. UM, and in two thousand four 493 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: late UH that an appeals court had decided that most 494 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: of the claims that UH that mt P had brought 495 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: were were still valid UM and news form. But they 496 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: also asked the court asked the the lower court UM 497 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: that it made the decision to look at the case again, 498 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: so we had to reopen that. And they said that 499 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: the the original ruling had some problems with it, that 500 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: that the the actual allegation still held true, but the 501 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: ruling itself had problems, so it needed to go back 502 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: into the court system. So then get to two thousand 503 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: and five. Now RIM has over five million subscribers, which 504 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: is enormous growth. Yeah, but it's the point at which 505 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,719 Speaker 1: the RIM is getting to the point where I think 506 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: they're getting a little weary of this lawsuit thing. Yeah, 507 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: so they get so they agreed to a settlement. Yeah, 508 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: a crazy settlement because remember it was originally they were 509 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: gonna have to pay twenty three point one million dollars. 510 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: Now it's four and fifty million dollars to settle the lawsuit. Yeah, 511 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,479 Speaker 1: but NTP does not seem too um happy to just 512 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,959 Speaker 1: take that. They now in TPS thinking hey, we got 513 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: a real shot of of we smell blood. Yeah we can, 514 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: we can really really uh twist the knife here. And 515 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: so a judge gets kind of fed up with what's 516 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: going on with the the failure to create a deal, 517 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: and the case is sent back to federal court. And 518 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: uh and so you've got the case going back to 519 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: federal court. Uh. The rim appeals to the U. S. 520 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. The Supreme Court says, no, this needs to 521 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: go back to federal court. Um. Judge refuses to force 522 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: in TP to actually agree to the four hundred fifty 523 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: million dollar settlements. So now INTP has a real chance 524 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: of getting even more right. Right. As a matter of fact, 525 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: in December of two thousand five, they said that they 526 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: would be willing to settle as long as they got 527 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: a five excuse me, a five point seven percent royalty 528 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: for the life of the patents. Yea, So now that 529 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: would be lucrative. Yeah, this is like an actor landing 530 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: a deal to get part of the merchandising rights for 531 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: anything that comes out of the movie that actors in. 532 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: You know, that's where the real money is. Yeah, I mean, 533 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: ticket sales are one thing, but you're going to really 534 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: make it up with those T shirts and action figures 535 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: and I'm just appealing to my geek friends now. But 536 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: also that same year two thousand five, just to get 537 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: a little bit of positive news out there, Real introduced 538 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,719 Speaker 1: the BlackBerry Dred, which had the first true color screen 539 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: and also introduced themes to the BlackBerry handset. So now 540 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: that that became like the flagship product for for that year. Yeah, 541 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: if you've been using a BlackBerry for a long time, 542 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,959 Speaker 1: you might remember the the Brujaja that had come up 543 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: where they were saying in the news that it was 544 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: possible that BlackBerry would have to stop offering service in 545 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: the United States. That's what we're talking about right now, 546 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: because at this point there uh MTP is basically saying, hey, look, 547 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: well we'll allow thirty days before cut off, and and 548 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: government users don't necessarily have to have their service cut 549 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: off right because black we can't settle, they're gonna have 550 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: to stop. Blackberries became really really important for government officials, 551 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: for military and for first responders because it provided a 552 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,959 Speaker 1: fast and secure way to communicate. So uh, you know 553 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: that it could have had catastrophic results if all service 554 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: had been cut off. Can you imagine, I mean, you 555 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: could fire departments not being able to communicate as as 556 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: easily as they had been. It would be a massive blow. 557 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: And there's some things that you know, you just gotta say, Okay, well, 558 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: look we're gonna allow these services to continue even if 559 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: we can't come to an agreement, because otherwise it would 560 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: be catastrophic. So uh. At the same time, Bassili was 561 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: saying that they that the company was looking at ways 562 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: to create alternatives to the technology that was in question 563 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: so that they could continue offering service even if the 564 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: the the questionable technology was shut down. So this is 565 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: kind of a work around they're looking at. Now. We 566 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: then get into a point where RIM agrees to pay 567 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: INTP a settlement of six hundred and twelve and a 568 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: half million dollars and um, that's the settlement and for 569 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: a quote perpetual paid up license going forward end quote. Yeah, 570 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: and uh it's pretty huge here. But um, you know, 571 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: we're still at this point that this has not actually 572 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: been settled, and uh, it's it's really getting ugly and 573 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,320 Speaker 1: and people who are like the stakeholders in the company 574 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: are nervous because you don't know if the service is 575 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: going to be cut off or not. So RIM is 576 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: actually really suffering at this point. Well, they've they continue this, uh, 577 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: this court case, which at this point was actually more 578 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: interesting too to the technology world then the actual products 579 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: that Blackberries putting out. Um. It also was starting to 580 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: drive business over to Palm. You know, as people were saying, 581 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: I don't know if this BlackBerry is going to be 582 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: working in six months, I need to go get a 583 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: device that I know I can depend on. And so 584 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 1: Trio sales actually really took off at this point. Um. 585 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: But eventually the uh, the whole mess with NTP gets 586 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: set old and and uh as a result, the shares 587 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: actually get a boost and uh and things start to 588 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: look better for REM. Although in two thousand seven, RIM 589 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: had to pay two fifty million dollars to UM to 590 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:19,399 Speaker 1: the United States because of some problems with their stock options. Uh. 591 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: They were issuing stock options at less than fair market 592 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: value to some of their executives, and so Lazarides and 593 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: Basili had to pay around five million dollars apiece to 594 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: cover the cost of the accounting review that was ordered 595 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,879 Speaker 1: by the United States government, and UM lots of lots 596 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: of executives had to pay back some some money because 597 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: the stock options they have been granted were granted at 598 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,800 Speaker 1: the wrong price. So again kind of a black mark 599 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: on RIM. Well, at this point, now that the lawsuit 600 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: is settled, UH, they're able to focus on on business 601 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,399 Speaker 1: again in a more unified way. They're not their tension 602 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: is not divided anymore. UM. In late two thousand seven, Uh, 603 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 1: there were more than ten million BlackBerry subscribers. UM. You'll 604 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: remember in two thousand seven to other products were announced 605 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: that would eventually cause great problems for rem that that 606 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: would be the iPhone and the Google Android operating system. UM. 607 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: But in the meaning, but keeping in mind that Blackberries 608 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: still established as the business, the the the corporate UM 609 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: solution for messaging and for for for you know, smartphones. Uh, 610 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: you know, the Trio was was still pretty far behind UM, 611 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,240 Speaker 1: and it was also still very much a an enterprise product. 612 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: It wasn't a consumer thing. UM. Alcatel Lucented had an 613 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: agreement to distribute Blackberries in China, which you know as 614 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,399 Speaker 1: a huge market UM and as a matter of fact, 615 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: that that stock boost from that actually made RIM the 616 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: most valuable company in Canada based on market capitalization UM. 617 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,280 Speaker 1: Then in two thousand seven, again they released the BlackBerry 618 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: Professional Software UM, which allowed companies with their own email 619 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: server UM in house to UH to transmit to Blackberries UM, 620 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 1: enabling people who work in I T for many companies 621 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: to get messages at two in the morning going the 622 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: servers down UM. It thrilled them to no end. I 623 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 1: am sure I've been around people for whom that is 624 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: a oh I gotta go UM and UH they actually 625 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: had their first BlackBerry store and Farmington Hills, Michigan UM 626 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: along with the cell phone company Wireless Giant UM, so 627 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: that that was sort of a unique thing for the 628 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: time to UM. They added more subscribers again, one point 629 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: six five million by the end the very end of 630 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: two thousand seven, pushing him up to twelve million UM, 631 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: and UH RIM started its own copyright. UM not copyrighted 632 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: its own patent case the year after UH telling saying 633 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: that Motorola had and fringed on some of its patents. UM. 634 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: So you know, Motorola sued them back, of course, as 635 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: is typically the case in these situations, saying that some 636 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: of the there are u S patents that they owned 637 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,359 Speaker 1: that BlackBerry was infringing on. And then they started not 638 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: naming their stuff with boring old names. This is when 639 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,240 Speaker 1: the you could tell that the influence of the consumer 640 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,359 Speaker 1: smartphone was having an effect on BlackBerry when they came 641 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: out with the Bold in two thousand eight. I remember 642 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,720 Speaker 1: the Bold, the Curve, the Pearl, um. All of these 643 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: devices were aimed at various slices of the consumer market 644 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: with an attempt to try and gain traction there. UH. 645 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,720 Speaker 1: Although BlackBerry got a lot of criticism from technology journalists 646 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: and analysts, saying that while they were redesigning the hardware 647 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: and trying to make that more more attractive to the 648 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,839 Speaker 1: average consumer, they hadn't done a lot of work with 649 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: the operating system, and the operating system had remained pretty 650 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: much the same over the last several years, and that 651 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,359 Speaker 1: as a result, it was starting to look stale, particularly 652 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,320 Speaker 1: against things like the iPhone or Google Android. And another 653 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: part is, again I mentioned earlier, BlackBerry just didn't support 654 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: apps to the same extent as Android or the iPhone. 655 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: And you think, you know, apps really extend the functionality 656 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 1: of these devices. You know, you can suddenly do all 657 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: these amazing things on the device. Sometimes it's games, sometimes 658 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: it's a service that will let you, um uh, navigate 659 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: the world more easily, or to navigate shopping more easily. 660 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,720 Speaker 1: BlackBerry didn't really have that to the extent that iPhone 661 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: and Google did. And as a result, if you're a consumer, 662 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: you know, you're not just looking at most consumers, I 663 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,760 Speaker 1: guess are not just looking at the form factor, although 664 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 1: that definitely plays a role in your choice, but just 665 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: why can you do with it? And really BlackBerry was 666 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,879 Speaker 1: falling behind and so um some people said that might 667 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,240 Speaker 1: have been what led BlackBerry to introduced the Playbook, which 668 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: was Blackberries or Rims tablet device seven inch tablet and uh. 669 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: It was a very snazzy tablet of the operating system 670 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: was very smooth. It was not the standard BlackBerry operating system. 671 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:36,360 Speaker 1: They had gone to another company to outsource that and uh, 672 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: and it would support apps. UH. The interesting some interesting 673 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: things about the the playbook, and we've done a whole 674 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: podcast about the playbook, so you can listen to that 675 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 1: as well. But some of the interesting points about it 676 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: or that you could not access contacts and email and 677 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,399 Speaker 1: then that sort of information with the playbook on its own. 678 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 1: You had to pair it with a BlackBerry smartphone. And 679 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: the idea here was that if someone were to get 680 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: hold of your tablet, they wouldn't be able to access 681 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 1: your corporate information because it was not stored on the 682 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: device itself. It could only be accessed when paired with 683 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,360 Speaker 1: a smartphone. Yeah, of course, UH. In a lot of 684 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 1: enterprise UH situations, there's a lot of proprietary data that 685 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 1: needs to be protected, business plans and UH you know 686 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: Apple is we've talked about how secret Apple is. There 687 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: far from the only UH company and all forms of 688 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,880 Speaker 1: business that wants to keep its trade secrets private. UM, 689 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 1: that's that's one of the big reasons why UH I 690 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,319 Speaker 1: T professionals are still very big on blackberriers that they've 691 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 1: they have very strong security versus UH people. That was 692 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,439 Speaker 1: one of the big arguments they said, well why don't 693 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 1: why don't more people switched to the iPhone. If people 694 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: like the iPhone, they said, well, the iPhone is not 695 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 1: as capable. Keeping in mind this is you know, some 696 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: time ago, and things have changed somewhat, but you know, 697 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,840 Speaker 1: that was the big argue even right away, was well, 698 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 1: you know, the iPhone may be nice, but it doesn't 699 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: have the same kind of security that a BlackBerry does. 700 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: A lot of the transmissions on a BlackBerry are encrypted. Yeah, 701 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 1: and they're passing through Blackberries servers yes, um, which is, 702 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 1: by the way, are most of which are located in Canada. 703 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,320 Speaker 1: Which that was part of the problem when when Barack 704 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 1: Obama wanted to see if he could keep his BlackBerry 705 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 1: once he became president of the United States. That was 706 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 1: one of the issues that was brought up was the 707 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: fact that this this data would be passing through servers 708 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 1: in another country. And we all know that Canada is 709 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 1: poised to strike at the United States at a moment's notice, 710 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,320 Speaker 1: So they wanted to be sure that the president's information 711 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 1: would remain private and and untouched by anyone in Canada 712 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,439 Speaker 1: who had designs on the presidency of the United States 713 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,359 Speaker 1: of America. Well, it might be exaggerating a little, but 714 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: there was there was an issue well. And and the 715 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 1: thing is too that it was passing out of the 716 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: government's hands and in to the hands at a private 717 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,439 Speaker 1: company too as well. That's another issue. Even if even 718 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,439 Speaker 1: if rem we're located in the United States, there would 719 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 1: be some serious questions about that kind of thing. But 720 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 1: the BlackBerry remains a company to which many people are 721 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 1: extremely loyal. UM. They have made good products with a 722 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,200 Speaker 1: good reputation for many years, and the UH the enterprise 723 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: security layer is also something that gives people in business 724 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,359 Speaker 1: a lot of confidence in the product. Unfortunately, UM, at 725 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,760 Speaker 1: the time we are recording this, BlackBerry has been fending 726 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:41,879 Speaker 1: off a pr um onslaught that they've had to deal 727 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 1: with because the servers and apparently there was a machine 728 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,319 Speaker 1: that went down in the United Kingdom one of their 729 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 1: course switches. Now, a course switch is a device that 730 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,400 Speaker 1: helps route traffic. It takes incoming traffic and sends it 731 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,840 Speaker 1: to the next major hop along the line. But if 732 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 1: you're talking about a course with that's something that's located 733 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 1: on the backbone of a system. So that's a major 734 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: major point of failure. And like many companies, RIM has 735 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 1: entrusted its equipment to a redundant backup system also in 736 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,399 Speaker 1: this case which failed UM, so the company throttled its 737 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,840 Speaker 1: network traffic all around the world and so for the 738 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: past few days before the day we were recording this 739 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: UM in in mid October of two thousand eleven, BlackBerry 740 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,480 Speaker 1: has been suffering from people being very upset about it, 741 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 1: the traffic disruptions and UM As a result, a lot 742 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: of people have been questioning whether, as BlackBerry has been 743 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:45,319 Speaker 1: behind UH, the Android and iOS operating systems for the 744 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 1: past couple of years in terms of subscriber growth, whether 745 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 1: BlackBerry will continue as a viable option for for enterprises 746 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 1: because both Apple and Google see opportunities in the enterprise market. Yeah, 747 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: this was This was particularly bad timing for this to 748 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: happen for to Rim because you've got you've got them 749 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,080 Speaker 1: in a precarious position there. Their sales have have had 750 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 1: some problems over the last few quarters. They've had revenue 751 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,840 Speaker 1: problems over the last few quarters. The company looked like 752 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,440 Speaker 1: a company that's in trouble, and people were pointing at 753 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: the operating system looking out a date. Although UM black 754 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,880 Speaker 1: Rim is supposed to to introduce a new operating system 755 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,759 Speaker 1: any day now UM, but for this to happen right 756 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,960 Speaker 1: after the iPhone four S announcement, So you've got a 757 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 1: new iPhone on the market, and the upcoming Google Android 758 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,839 Speaker 1: ice Cream Sandwich announcement. See, you're gonna have a new 759 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 1: version of the Android operating system, plus the release of 760 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: iOS five, the release of iOS five, the release of 761 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 1: a new Samsung Android phone that's supposed to be really advanced. 762 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 1: These are all bad things for to to you know, 763 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 1: it's all happening around the same time, and for RIM 764 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,719 Speaker 1: to suffer a catstrophic failure like this when everybody else 765 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 1: is releasing positive news that it's it's tough and um 766 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,840 Speaker 1: and to be fair, you know, it wasn't that information 767 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,400 Speaker 1: necessarily got lost during this process. Most of it was 768 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:13,120 Speaker 1: just delayed by hours, Like there'd be a three hour 769 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,080 Speaker 1: delay from when someone would send something and when you 770 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,080 Speaker 1: might receive it, which of course is bad if it's 771 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:22,359 Speaker 1: an urgent matter, but anyway, so they're dealing with that 772 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,879 Speaker 1: right now. They're also dealing with other issues, like there 773 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,160 Speaker 1: are governments around the world that want to be able 774 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 1: to access the information that's sent across the BlackBerry um network, 775 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,759 Speaker 1: and so that raises ethical questions like do you do 776 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,319 Speaker 1: you agree to do that, do you agree to give 777 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,839 Speaker 1: the governments the access to the information? Do you keep 778 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 1: it encrypted? Because you know, you're trying to serve your 779 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,120 Speaker 1: customers and m has had to deal with some pretty 780 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,880 Speaker 1: sticky situations there. They also got some bad press inn 781 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 1: during the riots in London because it turned out that 782 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,160 Speaker 1: a lot of the kids in London have Blackberries and 783 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: they were using the BlackBerry messaging service, which is encrypted service, 784 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,680 Speaker 1: to send messages between each other to target specific businesses 785 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 1: during the riots. So it was it was it would 786 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:13,600 Speaker 1: have required the cooperation of BlackBerry itself to provide the government, 787 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,759 Speaker 1: uh you know, they couldn't be spied upon. They would 788 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,400 Speaker 1: have to get BlackBerry to share that information with them. 789 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,439 Speaker 1: Of course BlackBerry agreed to cooperate, but it doesn't help 790 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,480 Speaker 1: again that that for a lot of people. That's the problem, 791 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,719 Speaker 1: big pr problem. Yet has been a rough year for 792 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,960 Speaker 1: Research in Motion now. Some people have already said that 793 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:34,839 Speaker 1: this might be the beginning of the end, or that 794 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,320 Speaker 1: perhaps Research Emotions should look at selling off its assets 795 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,680 Speaker 1: to other companies and just kind of dissolving so so 796 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,279 Speaker 1: elements of BlackBerry would continue to live on, it's just 797 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,319 Speaker 1: they would go under a different corporate name. People said 798 00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,000 Speaker 1: the same thing about Apple about twenty years ago, right, 799 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 1: So there's there's always the chance that that research in 800 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,000 Speaker 1: motion could turn this around and become a very powerful 801 00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,840 Speaker 1: player in the telecom space. Again, I mean, there's no 802 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,719 Speaker 1: thing necessarily stopping them. It's just that the you know, 803 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 1: the odds are definitely stacking against them, but that doesn't 804 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: mean they can't overcome those odds. So we'll have to 805 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,640 Speaker 1: watch and see and find out what happens. We'll also 806 00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,560 Speaker 1: have to see if if they they have a change 807 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 1: in leadership, because for the last couple of years, RIM 808 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,480 Speaker 1: has also received a lot of criticism about having co 809 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,560 Speaker 1: c e O s and saying that that kind of 810 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,560 Speaker 1: sends a mixed message to shareholders and it might be 811 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,920 Speaker 1: better to have a single person hold the position of 812 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,400 Speaker 1: CEO to give a unified vision for the company and 813 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,640 Speaker 1: be able to message that out to everybody, both consumers 814 00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:40,560 Speaker 1: and retailers there, shareholders, everyone, and and employees of REM. 815 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:44,279 Speaker 1: So it's a complicated issue, and uh, I'm glad we 816 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,799 Speaker 1: tackled this. It was. It's an important company definitely, So 817 00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 1: if you guys have any other major companies you'd like 818 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,440 Speaker 1: us to talk about. Or maybe we could do an 819 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,799 Speaker 1: episode where we talk about a bunch of smaller but 820 00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: related companies. That's also possible. Sometimes companies are are young 821 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:03,600 Speaker 1: enough and small enough where we can't do a full 822 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,399 Speaker 1: podcast about them, but let us know. You can send 823 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,319 Speaker 1: us an email that addresses tech stuff at how stuff 824 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,560 Speaker 1: words dot com, or shoot us a message on Twitter 825 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,880 Speaker 1: or Facebook. Our handle at both of those places is 826 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 1: text Stuff hs W and Chris and I will taught 827 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:22,359 Speaker 1: to you again really soon. Be sure to check out 828 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,560 Speaker 1: our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how 829 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,160 Speaker 1: Stuff Work staff as we explore the most promising and 830 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:32,879 Speaker 1: perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The How Stuff Works iPhone app 831 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:40,600 Speaker 1: has arrived. Download it today on iTunes, brought to you 832 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,000 Speaker 1: by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. It's ready. Are 833 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:44,239 Speaker 1: you