WEBVTT - The State of the UPS Union Negotiations 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:10.200 It, it could happen. Here the podcast where things happen and 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:14.080 sometimes things maybe don't happen, And once again the thing 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:18.640 maybe not happening is the strike at UPS. Yeah, so 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:24.000 stuff has happened since we lash recorded. And also there 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:25.800 was the thing that happened in the middle of the recording, 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.720 which was the announcement of the tentative agreement. And so 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:32.120 to talk more about what's been happening since and what's 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:33.959 sort of in this deal because we now know more 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:37.760 details about it is once again Rehee Smith and Oliver Rose, 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.720 who are to rank and file UPS teamsters, and once 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.280 again they do not represent the union, are speaking as individuals, 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.600 et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, but welcome back. 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:49.800 Yeah, I'm good to be back. 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:51.600 Yeah, thanks for having us on again. 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:54.120 Yeah, I'm glad. I'm happy to talk to you. So 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.360 all right, so last time we found out in the 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:01.800 middle of recording that there is a deal struck, and 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:03.720 I guess I wanted to start by talking a bit 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.240 about what's been happening since then and what the sort 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:09.640 of what sort of organizing has been happening, what the 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:11.520 sort of union bureaucracy has been doing. 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:17.120 Yeah, it's a Well, it's been kind of kind of crazy. Basically, 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.880 you know, we had that highlight reel that we all got, 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.240 and then it was a bit before we got the 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:28.240 actual contract, at least like a few days. And since then, 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:32.360 you know, you're in union bureaucracy has been promoting these 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:35.000 contract Q and A sessions and stuff like that, and 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:38.000 they had three of them last Sunday and one of 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:44.040 them this Monday, and voting has opened up. Uh yeah, 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:48.760 it's it's been a bit, been a bit uh crazy feeling, 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:53.120 to be honest. Uh, yeah, yeah, it's been wild. 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:56.840 Yeah. Of course, you know, while we're recording, you know, 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.320 we get the tenet of an agreement DRAP and you 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.280 know it's framed as you know, this big historic uh 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.800 you know, this game changer. So and you know, of course, 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:09.120 for the first day, we just had what was in 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.880 the press release. Even some of that language was a 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.440 little bit confusing. Wasn't until Team Series, where a democratic 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:20.519 union also had their own like press release clarified some language. 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.320 And then you know we're kind of just like, okay, 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.160 we'll get you know, we're told we'll be getting the 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:29.440 kind of agreement language next week and chance to you know, 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.040 debrief with the local, but really like the the I 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.560 think it was the following day the actual language comes out, 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.080 you know, and some of the things where it's you know, 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:43.720 there's like a promise with the uh all the general 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.679 wage increases going on top of those market rate adjustments 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:51.160 we're speaking about, which are basically wages that are that 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:55.360 ups can you know, add or even remove that's not 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:59.000 actually tied to the contract wages and you know, so 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:01.680 one of the things was, yeah, getting those raises on top, 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.960 but there was no contract language you know in there, 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.000 which definitely caused I think a lot of confusion concern 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:12.640 among rank and file members. And it actually took one 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:16.560 of the locals, uh, you know, having a no endorsement 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:22.600 before we even saw this memorandum of understanding between the 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:26.440 company and the IBT, you know, guaranteeing this was going 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.359 to happen, you know, that we would be getting those 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.480 raises on top. It was just kind of one of 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:34.840 those things where you know, there was this kind of 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:39.920 really vague language that was used and I think definitely 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:45.160 caused you know, people to not really fully understand, you know, 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.840 what was going on. Specially I think it was about 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:53.680 seventy five percent of part timers are currently have a 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.520 market rate adjustment. You know, that's kind of a very 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:58.000 big portion of the workforce. 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:00.920 Yeah, it was a gonna be honest, it was a 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.280 real it was kind of a real calm shit show, uh, 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:08.640 from from union leadership releasing the information. 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:11.360 Uh, in the way they did. 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:16.279 It absolutely led to a lot of misunderstandings about what 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.200 was in the contract, which you know, kind of spread 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:23.279 like wildfire. And the union response to what I think 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:28.479 is a lot of just genuine misunderstanding is to just 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:33.960 label it all as misinformation from people that have, you know, 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:38.039 their their own agendas, right, and you can't you can't 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.839 like trust those people. You can only trust what's what's 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:47.760 coming from the union. And Yeah, that definitely didn't inspire 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:52.840 trust from the people that were leaning no, because in 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.920 between a lot of these like and there is definitely 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.279 was some misunderstanding about what was initially into the in 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.359 the contract, but there is also genuine critique about certain 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:05.000 things that are in the contract. Right, And so instead 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:09.760 of like substantly substantively like looking at these genuine critiques, 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.920 we're all forced in the situation of sorting out what 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:18.480 is quote unquote misinformation or you know, more accurately, people 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.039 not understanding legalese and also a bad role out of 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.760 information versus Okay, but what is in the contract that 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:32.080 really needs improvement? And instead of like substantially getting into 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:34.599 the ladder, it's just been a pure focus on the former. 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.599 And yeah, it's it's been, it's been kind of tense. 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:39.000 Uh. 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.479 It seems like, you know, it seems like there's a 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:46.839 real mix, it's real kind of even even uh, how 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:50.080 rank and vile members are responding to this contract. You know, 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:53.200 some have kind of bought in full sale that this 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:58.080 is a historic contract, and others, you know, you know, 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:02.480 such as myself, like, you know, there's still things in 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:06.839 this contract that to me are unacceptable and it's going 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.159 to be interesting to see where it goes. 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.000 Yeah, I mean, you know, I kind of feel like 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.479 it's hard to get a gauge of where everyone's at. 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:16.640 And of course I only have the you know, kind 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:22.039 of my local experience in my specific shift. You know, definitely, Yeah, 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.320 I haven't I haven't come across you know, someone I 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.640 work with yet, you know who's totally just like, yeah, 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.440 this is superstoric, this is you know, game changing. Uh, 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.440 you know, as they were saying, or the union was saying, 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.240 a lot of people, you know, especially long timers, like yeah, 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.200 this is a really good contract with you know, the 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.600 best I've seen, uh, you know, in my days here. 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.520 And then there's you know, there's been another few other 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.279 people who are like, yeah, I'm gonna vote yes, but 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.320 it really doesn't really seem like you know, it's matching, 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:57.800 you know, the framing of you know, this historic contract. 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.480 And then also know this, I mean, other people who 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.080 are just kind of like, none, this seems I mean 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.320 I was kind of like too little, too late, Like 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:11.200 the games aren't quite there. Yeah, it's there's there's raises. 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:13.960 They're also kind of done in a weird way where 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.239 they're more or less like kind of front loaded towards 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.200 the first and last year, and everything in the middle 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:23.120 is a lot lower to the point actually where and 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:25.240 it gets confusing because everyone's kind of at a different 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.600 rate with those market rate adjustments. You know, the more 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:33.280 you're making from you know, that supplemental pay, the worse 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.240 this is going to keep with inflation to the point 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.920 where it's kind of you're only actually going to be 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:44.280 just above inflation towards the end of the contract, especially 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.640 one of the definitely one of the weaker things in 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:50.640 the contract is all new hires or current people without 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:53.760 seniority are going to be on a different tier. And 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:59.000 this is where the part timer inside warehouse positions, so 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.240 you know the Yeah, so if you have seniority, it's 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:05.760 minimum of twenty one an hour to start, and that 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:10.239 goes up to twenty five seventy five an hour, versus 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.680 those new hires or no seniority employees are going to 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:14.960 be out twenty one with the progression to twenty three 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:20.280 the fifty cent raises and of course, uh, you know, 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.440 once you know, tack on the average you know, a 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:27.200 little bit over three percent inflation, you know, I can 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.160 kind of quickly see, uh, it's those new members who 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:31.840 are getting the worst part of the deal. 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:36.000 Yeah, And that comes to I think another thing that 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.199 is like I don't know, so when this was all 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.480 first happening, and I've seen this like a lot from 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.920 people talking about this is people talking about this is 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.320 like a contract that like ends the tier systems, and 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:51.679 that just like doesn't seem to be true at all. 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.120 Yeah, And so one of the things, so there's the yeah, 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.200 I believe we spoke to this last time. The two 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.679 two four is what it's called, where it's a combo 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:04.400 driver and inside warehouse position and most of the time, 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.319 you know, they were just more or less practically full 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.120 time drivers, except for a few times where you know, 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:13.439 they much like earlier this year they tried to transition 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:17.400 them to mostly like inside full time. But so the 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.760 thing is, yeah, those will all get you know, converted 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:25.080 to the package car drivers with that, I believe, with 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:27.360 that raid or at least very similar. 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:28.040 Yeah. 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.600 Yeah, so we did get rid of the twenty two fours, 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.280 and that was the big promise, you know, going into 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:38.920 this contract fight. But yeah, no, there are definitely still 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:44.360 remaining tiers within ups. You know, there's this new one 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.280 that's been created, which is the you know, the tier 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.440 between the what they call the unborn. That's how they 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.439 refer to people that have not yet been hired by 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.079 ups that have like stipulations in the contract, right, Yeah, 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.120 they call them the unborn. It's it's kind of funny, 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.040 and you know, their whole thing is that they just 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.599 have a completely different wage progression than the rest of 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:10.520 us do. But in addition to that tier which was introduced, 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:14.679 you know, there are tiers elsewhere. Sometimes it's a tier 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:17.839 between the hubs, like all of the hubs are making 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.719 different MRAs and stuff like that. But additionally, there are 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:25.240 some hubs that don't have a daily guarantee of hours 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:29.160 like regular hubs do, like for instance, air hubs. Right, 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:35.200 So like that's another basically another tier, because it's you know, 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:39.560 people doing the same work but not guaranteed the same things. 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:45.719 And yeah, yeah, so there's definitely tiers remaining in this 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:51.720 contract for sure, and it's really unfortunate to see that 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:55.320 the one existing didn't get addressed and that they just 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.359 created a whole new one, even though they are adamantly 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:00.400 insisting it is not here. 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.440 Yeah, that's you know, this goes back to I believe 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.600 the nineteen eighty two contract, which is when the full 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:14.280 time and part time pay was changed to different different tiers, 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:18.120 with part time getting like four dollars less than full 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:22.160 time which was I think twelve twelve an hour back 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.240 in eighty two versus eight an hour for the part timers. 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.599 You know, So that's continued, you know, across all these decades. 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.959 And so now with the current contract, provided you're getting 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:38.600 paid the contract minimums, yeah, you're looking at full time 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:43.600 inside warehouse their top rate going to thirty six dollars 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.880 an hour, I believe, and then you're gonna have part 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:51.920 timers who have seniority just below twenty six an hour, 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:54.640 and then you're gonna have those people who weren't quite 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.760 in the door yet at twenty three. And of course, 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.960 you know, it's doing more or less the you know, 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:06.200 the same work the inside. You know, you're doing your loading, unloading, sorting, 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:11.200 the other you know, various positions there. And of course 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:13.000 you know, one of the things I've seen, you know, 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.720 particularly online, I haven't heard this on the shop floor. 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.280 It's just like, oh, well, you know they're working more, 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:20.240 so of course they're going to get paid more. But 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.720 it's like, okay, well, yeah, they have more hours, so 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.080 they would get more paid, but that doesn't mean that 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.360 they should be at a higher hourly rate. Yeah. Plus 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:31.400 there's going to be other things too, like the pension 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.920 of CRUL and you know, vacation time where you're working more, 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:36.720 you're going to get more of that too. It's kind 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:41.120 of has its own reward. There's really no reason to have, 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:46.160 you know, like a ten dollars discrepancy for that type 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:47.079 of work performed. 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.520 Also, I was doing some quick math in the background, 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:58.400 and the nineteen eighty two I wagees like thirty six 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:03.520 dollars an hour and with inflation. Now, so that's historic. 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:04.640 That's fun. 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:10.920 Yeah, I don't know. 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.640 I think it's when I think about, you know, this 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.839 union being touted as historic, I like actually think about, 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.480 like what are the actual historic wins of the labor movement? 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:23.360 And you know, I'm thinking about, like, you know, the 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:28.120 right to a five day work week. Meanwhile, this historic contract, 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:30.840 you know it ended six day punches, but that's that's 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.360 not a new historical thing. That was something we lost 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:38.120 and then regained with this contract. So it's you know, 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:43.440 in my mind, it's not really breaking any barriers or 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.800 like you know, blowing anyone's minds, you know, especially when 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:52.720 we have Sean Faye of the UAWD who is talking about, 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:54.560 you know, one of their demands is a thirty two 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:58.880 hour work week, right like he's he's advocating that every 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.360 worker needs a forty percent an increase in pay because 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.720 the CEO got a forty percent increase in pay. 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.280 And yeah, it's just. 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.160 Yeah, are our contract just you know, it isn't at 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:14.120 that level by any means. 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.680 When you said we're historic, you know, like I think 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.600 there could be times where you can, you know, call 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.840 something historic before it stands the test of time. But 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:27.120 this is kind of like, Okay, this is kind of 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:29.920 I feel like the contract, you know, you would expect 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.960 a union to bargain. Maybe it's I mean partly it's 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:38.960 historic because it just really hasn't been really any gains 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:42.480 and so it's kind of like, Okay, you got us 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:47.960 wage increases, isn't that kind of just like what you 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:51.480 should be doing? Yeah? 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.200 Well, I mean, I mean this is this has been 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:56.120 there's been like this has been like the there's been 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.800 a bunch of unions in the last like maybe like 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.000 eight months who have like settled and been like we've 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.920 gotten historic races, And it's like, I don't know, it's 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.640 the thing that seems actually historic about it is essentially 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:11.240 averting like averting this massive strike wave. 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:13.840 Yeah. One of the things I wanted to add was, 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.560 you know, especially with those combo positions, you know, ending 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.600 that tier. That was something that was introduced in the 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:26.840 previous contract, which rank and file members voted down. It 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:28.840 was a no vote, but it was just because of 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:34.200 this uh, you know, kind of obscure you know rule 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.760 in the constitution where it's just like, oh, fifty percent 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.800 of people don't vote, then it required the two thirds 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.840 you know, no vote. So you know that was just 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:49.200 completely you know, over overruled by the union, like we're 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:52.640 going to do this anyways, So kind of you know, 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.320 it's good that we righted that wrong. You know, it's 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.600 good to reduce a tier. Of course, I'm not gonna 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:01.200 knock that, but just kind of those things where it's like, yeah, 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.960 but membership already didn't want that, or at least. 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.000 You guys did this. Yeah, you guys did you guys 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:11.640 introduced this in the first place, like come on, yeah. 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:12.000 Yeah. 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.680 It's also worth noting that the twenty two to four position, 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:17.920 you know, it wasn't working for our members, but it 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.240 also wasn't working for the company either. They were having 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:26.360 significant trouble trying to fill all the shifts that we 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.800 were needed and required by the position, and to the 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.440 point that workers ended up kind of being slotted into 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.000 one or the other with like really bad schedules, and 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.240 it wasn't it wasn't working for either, is the thing. 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.080 So it is it's great that we got rid of it, 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.920 but it seems like it was somewhat of an easy 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:52.800 thing to win. It made mutual sense, right, and yeah, yeah, 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:58.080 it's just there were you know, there were bigger there 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.280 could have been bigger fights over other things in this 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.160 contract that weren't pursued, right, So. 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.119 Yeah, I mean that's that's the thing. From everything that 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:12.520 I've seen from me, it seems like it seems like 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:14.240 the goal of this contract is to get a contract 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.399 that's like exactly good enough to get like fifty one 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:19.400 percent of the vote in a contract to avoid UPS 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.639 having to like actually deal with a contract that a 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:23.439 strip would produce. 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.880 Mm hm oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah. 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.720 It's kind of the I mean whether I mean probably 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.399 intentional where it's just like you know, it's like just 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:38.040 good enough, you know, to maybe warrant like a yes vote, 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.000 and especially i mean in contact of you know, the 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:45.840 last however many contracts. But it's kind of one of 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.200 those things where it's like, okay, by comparison, it's good, 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.880 but again, you know, I don't think it quite goes 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:55.199 far enough either on the wage side, you know, on 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.280 the on the wages or you know, especially one of 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:01.840 the issues I've been focused on a lot. Is the 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:03.120 heat protections. 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.359 Yeah, can we can we talk about well, specifically the 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.000 heat protections, but then also kind of talk a bit 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.720 about what's what is in the contract and what like 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.760 isn't in the contract that should be. Oh yeah, you 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:17.240 can start with the heat production stuff. 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.919 Yeah. So one of the things. So they'll be rolling 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:28.119 out air conditioners in the uh All trucks package cars purchase, 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.960 I believe after August of the next year, and they'll 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:36.200 be kind of distributing them by zones and current ones 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:43.760 will be retrofitted with my heat shields and events. I'm 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:47.200 not quite sure how effective that'll be. One of the 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.960 things for the inside people, you know it's there. You know, 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.400 they'll be installing you know, tens of thousands of more fans, 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:57.960 which you know, I'm not gonna lie that that will 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:02.000 feel really nice because those trailers just get so hot 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:06.040 and stuffy. There's no airflow, especially like if it's been 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:07.800 sitting for a while, you open the door, it's just 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:10.480 like a last of heat. But the problem with fans 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.840 is they're only so effective, particularly once it reaches ninety 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:20.399 five degrees. They don't do anything, and so you know 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:24.880 there's a lot of places where it'll probably feel nice 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.000 and it might help to some degree, but you know, 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:30.360 especially like right now in you know, like the Southwest 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:34.359 and the south where you've just had these you know, 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.639 one hundred and ten plus degree days, you know, like 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:43.359 over a month, like that's not going to do really 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:47.880 do much, especially if you're anywhere, depending on if you've 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:51.800 got dry heat or you know, higher humidity in the 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:56.160 latter fans can and sometimes make it worse. I'm also 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:58.520 worried it's going to kind of be like this kind 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.080 of like a comparison to a like security theater, but 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:04.720 like more like safety theater, where it's this appearance of 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:09.480 doing something to say like, look, we're doing this thing. 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.800 It's going to keep you safe. But whether that's you know, 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:17.919 actually true or not, well, I mean, we'll kind of 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:22.520 find out. But definitely I'm pretty worried about, you know, 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:25.600 what's going to happen, especially in the next five years. 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.879 We already have and I think it was the it 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:33.280 was it, it was the World Meteorological Organization, you know, 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.320 now has a their researchers have like a ninety eight 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:40.600 percent certainty that we're going to reach a high mark 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:44.560 for global warming before twenty twenty seven, so you know, 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:47.800 and I'm pretty sure last July was already the the 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:54.320 hottest month on record globally, and it's something to read. 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:56.240 There's in I think in that report of like a 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:59.520 sixty six percent chance of passing that album one point 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:05.159 five degrees celsius warming global warming between now in twenty 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:09.280 twenty seven. So it's kind of one of those things where, 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.560 you know, I don't think we necessarily have five years 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:17.720 to wait to you know, address this contract language and 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:22.880 add further protections. Especially we've got other unions like the 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:28.080 International Longshorn Warehouse Union. They had an article that's talking 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:31.199 about their heat protections, which have things like stewards that 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:35.920 are equipped with heat monitoring equipment versus the current contract 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:38.480 language for us would be they can just use like 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:42.280 the OSHA app or you know, like weather service to 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.199 check you know, like a weather station versus like the 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:48.600 actual specific conditions you're working in. Yeah. Yeah, that seems 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:49.120 like there'd. 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.200 Be a huge it seems like there's a huge discrepancy 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:53.479 there because like the indoor temperatures and temperatures in these 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:57.440 trailers are way hotter than like the reported conditions. 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.520 Yeah, and it can be like five to ten degrees hotter. 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:07.159 At least I bought a little thermometer and hydrometer, hygrometer 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.720 something like that, whatever measures humidity, because that's kind of 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:14.000 how because there are states with heat protections, there's like 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.200 seven of them. A lot of times they're using the 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:19.879 heat index when you're factoring in the temperature and humidity 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:25.919 to get the feelds like temperature and yeah, with the 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:29.679 il WU, you know, they're also getting rest breaks as 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:32.919 part of their contract language, which I believe two or 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:37.600 three states have those of the seven total that actually 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:41.960 have heat protections. And you know, the ile WU is 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:45.280 kind of talking about even though they have heat protections 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:48.399 that kind of match or even kind of exceed partly 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:51.919 what some of the states have. You know, they're kind 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:55.480 of saying, this isn't enough for the current extreme heat 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:56.080 we're facing. 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:00.520 Yeah, I mean, and you know, talked about us on 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:04.520 the show before. But like whatever heat protections get negotiated 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:08.160 in a contract, like the company is going to basically 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:10.760 the instant negotiations are over, is going to figure out 0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:13.639 what the well a, what the cheapest possible way to 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:15.639 do this is with the shittiest equipment and then be 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:18.680 like try to They're going to immediately try to figure 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:22.719 out like how you know, like how how to actually 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:24.359 subvert it. And you know, this is this is the 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:26.439 thing we've seen all over the world, even in places 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:29.440 that have sort of national heat protection laws, is that 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:31.000 you know, even even if you have a law, or 0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:32.600 even if you have a thing in a contract, even 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:34.760 if you have something in your contract, it doesn't necessarily 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:37.280 mean it's going to be enforced. And that requires a 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:41.560 you know, it requires like a pretty significant degree of 0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:44.480 organization to make sure it stays enforced. And that's you 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:46.800 know that that's true both of stuff that's in contract 0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:49.679 and stuff that's like legally required, and so like if 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:54.200 if if, if, if the thing that they're nominally required 0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:57.320 to do is still insufficient, it's going to end up 0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:00.640 being way worse than that on the ground. 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:04.240 Yeah, we're seeing that with art i mean, existing heat 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:07.679 protections at the state level, where they're you know, falling short, 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:11.320 and especially you know there's either you know, there's kind 0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:14.600 of loopholes or even just kind of like murky language 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:17.680 that makes it really hard to enforce. In some cases. 0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:23.040 Do not have a good transition, but it's hot. Yeah, 0:24:23.119 --> 0:24:25.439 here here are some ads that are i don't know, 0:24:26.359 --> 0:24:41.520 hopefully not making the climate worse. And we're back. So 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:45.560 outside of the sort of of the experience around heat, 0:24:45.760 --> 0:24:48.399 what else has been going? Like, what else is in 0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:52.320 the contract that there's been sort of dispute over. 0:24:54.920 --> 0:24:58.640 So if you look online, and this is an instance 0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:01.720 of not really quite understanding what's in the contract. But 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:04.520 if you go online, a lot of people think that 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:13.040 there are pension freezes in the contract. And once again, 0:25:13.080 --> 0:25:16.640 I think we can contribute this misunderstanding to a calm 0:25:16.680 --> 0:25:19.800 strategy failure as well as a lack of open bargaining. 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:29.440 The con the dot COM's the pension contribution rate has decreased, 0:25:29.520 --> 0:25:33.600 but money is still going in to the pension fund, 0:25:34.760 --> 0:25:37.919 not as much as it was, is my understanding. The 0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:41.120 way the union broke it down for me was like, 0:25:41.200 --> 0:25:43.679 there's a dollar and twenty five cents of that dollar 0:25:44.080 --> 0:25:47.399 is going to healthcare, twenty five cents of that dollar 0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:49.480 is going to the pension, and then fifty cents of 0:25:49.520 --> 0:25:52.639 it is going to wages. And I'm gonna be honest 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:55.960 with you, I don't super understand all this money stuff either, 0:25:57.359 --> 0:25:59.439 but we yeah, they showed us a thing where like 0:25:59.480 --> 0:26:03.760 the contra visions are going to keep happening, other things 0:26:03.760 --> 0:26:07.320 that have been in the kind of in the like 0:26:07.359 --> 0:26:09.520 what we've all what people have been thinking about is 0:26:10.760 --> 0:26:13.359 the full time jobs, which I know we talked a 0:26:13.359 --> 0:26:18.600 lot about on the last one, and uh yeah, that's it. 0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:22.479 I think we we were using the seventy five hundred 0:26:22.480 --> 0:26:26.520 for newly created jobs, but apparently the contract also specifically 0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:31.080 requires them to actually fill the twenty two thousand some 0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:36.000 full time jobs that exist that they just have not 0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:39.720 been filling. But even with that additional twenty two thousand, 0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:44.239 that's still roughly thirty thousand full time jobs that is 0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:47.159 for the full time work for the whole workforce of 0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:50.439 three hundred and forty thousand people. And something I learned 0:26:50.480 --> 0:26:54.639 is that full time drivers can bid into those positions 0:26:54.680 --> 0:26:58.080 and get them because they will likely have the seniority 0:26:58.119 --> 0:26:59.919 to do so. Because that's how we determine how to 0:26:59.880 --> 0:27:02.199 fill jobs. It's by seniority, you know, how long have 0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:04.479 you been there? And usually you know, I think that 0:27:04.520 --> 0:27:09.119 makes sense, but you know, that really just contributes to 0:27:09.240 --> 0:27:12.600 the to the long long wait of part timers trying 0:27:12.600 --> 0:27:13.840 to get full time work. 0:27:13.960 --> 0:27:15.440 Right, and. 0:27:16.880 --> 0:27:20.280 Yeah, like the thing like kind of related to that. 0:27:20.359 --> 0:27:22.119 You know, we have these like if you have a 0:27:22.119 --> 0:27:24.680 market rate adjustment and you get your two seventy five, 0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:26.760 for me, that's going to be twenty six seventy five 0:27:26.800 --> 0:27:30.879 an hour. And that looks great until you remember that 0:27:30.960 --> 0:27:34.160 we are part time. It is like we are supposed 0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:37.920 to work half a work week. I work less than 0:27:37.960 --> 0:27:39.760 because of the hub that I am at, which is 0:27:40.600 --> 0:27:45.600 not great, but you know, we need the hours and 0:27:45.600 --> 0:27:50.840 there's not the there isn't enough jobs, and that's stimulated 0:27:50.840 --> 0:27:51.800 by this contract. 0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:54.600 I think that there probably could be a lot more jobs. 0:27:54.960 --> 0:27:57.560 Yeah, I want to see something about that specifically too, 0:27:57.640 --> 0:28:00.280 which is that like when when like you random listener 0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:03.520 who's not working at ups, whenever you see someone like 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:06.480 talking about a wage number and it's for part timers, 0:28:06.520 --> 0:28:08.320 Like if if you want to try to figure out 0:28:08.320 --> 0:28:10.159 can this person's your vibe? You need to divide that 0:28:10.240 --> 0:28:13.000 number by two at like at the very least divide 0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:15.480 up by two, possibly divide it by more. Because again, 0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:18.320 like they don't, no one, no one's like if you're 0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:20.119 a part timer, like obviously, yeah you're not. You're not 0:28:20.160 --> 0:28:23.280 getting the hours that you know, that that that you 0:28:23.359 --> 0:28:25.760 that you would normally you know, if if you can't 0:28:25.800 --> 0:28:28.639 just immediately convert that to what would the salary be 0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:30.159 if you work, if you got like forty hours a 0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:32.480 week or whatever, like you can't do that. I've seen 0:28:32.600 --> 0:28:34.919 a lot I've seen this a lot, a lot, like 0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:37.160 on the internet. I've seen pundits talking about it like this, 0:28:37.960 --> 0:28:43.600 and it's just like a incomprehensible misunderstanding of the act 0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:47.200 of like how how this stuff actually works for you 0:28:47.280 --> 0:28:48.760 to be going like, oh, look at all this money 0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:51.160 that people are making, assuming that like you know, and 0:28:51.200 --> 0:28:53.520 then and then using calculations that are based on like 0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:57.120 someone working full time, which is most of the workforce, 0:28:57.240 --> 0:29:00.000 like a significant significant majority of the workforce is not 0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:02.320 is not working full time and will not be even 0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:03.200 after this contract. 0:29:03.720 --> 0:29:06.840 Yes, yeah, it's yeah, it's estimated there are sixty percent 0:29:06.920 --> 0:29:09.920 of the workforce is is part timers. 0:29:11.080 --> 0:29:13.920 So yeah, no, that is a that is a huge issue. 0:29:14.560 --> 0:29:16.320 You know, a lot of people also, like when this 0:29:16.400 --> 0:29:18.360 is brought up, a lot of people like to then say, well, 0:29:18.400 --> 0:29:22.600 you know, get a second job, but our jobs aren't flexible. 0:29:22.680 --> 0:29:25.000 Like first of all, fuck fuck having a second job. 0:29:25.120 --> 0:29:28.640 I am kind of staunchly opposed to the entire concept. 0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:32.160 But even if I wasn't, this job is not flexible 0:29:32.360 --> 0:29:35.840 enough to account for a second job, not unless you 0:29:35.920 --> 0:29:38.200 never want to sleep in your second job is when 0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:41.680 you should be like sleeping because you know, we have 0:29:41.720 --> 0:29:44.080 our start times, those are given to us a week 0:29:44.080 --> 0:29:46.400 in advance, but we don't know when our end times 0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:48.360 are because the end times are when we run out 0:29:48.360 --> 0:29:54.040 of packages. So you know, some days, you know, like 0:29:54.600 --> 0:29:56.320 in my hub, it's always just going to be the 0:29:56.520 --> 0:29:59.680 two hours, but like in other hubs, you could be there, 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:01.400 you know, you could be trying to get your three 0:30:01.400 --> 0:30:04.520 and a half hour daily guarantee, like employing that when 0:30:04.560 --> 0:30:06.600 they're trying to send you home, or you could be 0:30:06.640 --> 0:30:13.200 there six seven hours, and you know, how how how 0:30:13.280 --> 0:30:16.880 is another employer supposed to operate with that? You know, 0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:20.120 you call in like three times saying like, oh, I 0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:22.600 can't actually leave my first job. You're not going to 0:30:22.640 --> 0:30:27.440 have that second job much longer. So yeah, in addition 0:30:27.480 --> 0:30:29.440 to the lack of full time jobs, the way this 0:30:29.560 --> 0:30:32.840 job is makes a second one impossible. So a lot 0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:36.000 of our part timers really are relying on that on 0:30:36.040 --> 0:30:38.960 that part time wage to get them through and picking 0:30:39.080 --> 0:30:41.480 up doubles when they can, which means you kind of 0:30:41.520 --> 0:30:44.080 end up having a ten hour day because there's like 0:30:44.120 --> 0:30:48.719 about a two hour like space of time in between 0:30:48.760 --> 0:30:54.600 the shifts. So yeah, yeah, it's uh yeah, those are 0:30:54.840 --> 0:30:56.800 those are some some of the big issues. 0:30:57.280 --> 0:30:59.800 So yeah, that's one of my worries. You know, if 0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:01.600 I've about you know, if I want to go full 0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:05.360 time or not, is you know, can be at least 0:31:05.360 --> 0:31:09.200 in the hub I work at, I would say usually 0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:12.000 I'm getting like twenty four hours a week, you know, 0:31:12.040 --> 0:31:14.520 if I'm going full time, but double that because now 0:31:14.520 --> 0:31:16.680 I'm working two shifts. But also you know, got to 0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:20.360 have that like hour or two of wait time between shifts. 0:31:20.960 --> 0:31:22.920 You know, it's just a lot of time to be 0:31:22.920 --> 0:31:26.959 spending at work, especially on paid time at work. That 0:31:27.120 --> 0:31:29.960 is that is the worst. You know, it's not quite 0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:32.320 long enough stretch to like go home or at least 0:31:32.520 --> 0:31:37.440 you know you have a decent commute to work. And 0:31:37.920 --> 0:31:41.320 you know, another thing kind of came to my mind 0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:45.480 a little earlier earlier was that and it sounds like 0:31:45.680 --> 0:31:48.320 at least talking with new hires, that this is still continuing, 0:31:48.360 --> 0:31:51.800 which is kind of this really deceptive hiring practice where 0:31:52.120 --> 0:31:55.280 the hours are posted. When I got the job, you know, 0:31:55.320 --> 0:31:58.160 it was posted as part time. For get it was 0:31:58.200 --> 0:32:00.520 something like, uh, I don't know, I'm not to four, 0:32:01.040 --> 0:32:03.200 but you know, had that schedule for five days a week, 0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:06.440 seven hour shifts, thirty five hours a week times. By 0:32:06.480 --> 0:32:09.400 the twenty six starting pay, I was like, oh, perfect, 0:32:09.400 --> 0:32:12.720 I'll be making like, you know, somewhere like mid forty thousand. 0:32:13.200 --> 0:32:19.440 That's that's livable at least for my specific you know circumstances. 0:32:19.920 --> 0:32:22.480 But then of course get there and you know the yeah, 0:32:22.680 --> 0:32:25.840 we get two days notice for a start time. It's 0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:29.040 posted on our either you know, end of the week, 0:32:29.240 --> 0:32:32.600 so don't know exactly when I'm working, you know, until 0:32:32.640 --> 0:32:36.360 right before the next week, and you know, at least 0:32:36.400 --> 0:32:38.920 there an orientation. Soone asked, oh, like, what's actually the 0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:40.600 end time. I was just like, oh, well, when the 0:32:40.640 --> 0:32:44.000 last package is loaded. Of course, if you know what 0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:45.840 when the next shift starts, you can kind of get 0:32:45.880 --> 0:32:49.200 a better idea of when you'll actually be out of there. 0:32:50.240 --> 0:32:52.400 But still it's just kind of it's, you know, it's 0:32:52.440 --> 0:32:57.880 this claim flexibility, but it's very difficult, you know, to 0:32:57.920 --> 0:33:00.600 actually work a second job or even know they offer 0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:03.520 tuition reimbursement, and there's a number of students who have 0:33:03.560 --> 0:33:06.120 had you know, a hard time actually like you know, 0:33:06.160 --> 0:33:09.360 getting the time off to attend their classes. And I 0:33:09.400 --> 0:33:13.000 also second anywhere that's part time work that offers tuition reimbursement. 0:33:13.080 --> 0:33:16.280 You know, I would say this an expected expectation that Okay, 0:33:16.360 --> 0:33:18.880 well you're going to school and you're working part time. 0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:21.480 You would think the wages then should at least you know, 0:33:22.160 --> 0:33:26.920 provide enough for rent, food, gas, textbooks, all that. 0:33:27.640 --> 0:33:31.760 Yeah, to piggyback off of what Oliver just said regarding 0:33:32.000 --> 0:33:34.280 you know, like this is a wage that is good 0:33:34.360 --> 0:33:37.000 for you know, their situation when they were assuming it 0:33:37.040 --> 0:33:39.600 was at the you know, thirty five hours a week. 0:33:39.920 --> 0:33:40.120 You know. 0:33:40.160 --> 0:33:42.080 Another thing to think about is a lot of these 0:33:42.080 --> 0:33:45.040 part timers, you know, they have families, they have significant 0:33:45.080 --> 0:33:49.560 others that they're caring for. Like, you know, a lot 0:33:49.560 --> 0:33:51.880 of people look at this wage and one make the 0:33:51.960 --> 0:33:54.920 faulty assumption that you talked about earlier by multiplying it 0:33:54.960 --> 0:33:56.800 by forty to get the forty and then they assume 0:33:56.840 --> 0:33:58.200 that's for just that one person. 0:33:58.960 --> 0:34:01.760 And like, there are part timers of every age, right, 0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:03.240 and they all have their. 0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:05.840 Own their own families and stuff like that that they 0:34:05.840 --> 0:34:08.719 are expected to care for as well. So like when 0:34:08.719 --> 0:34:10.279 you look at all of this and the you know, 0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:13.040 the rate of inflation and the way the economy is, 0:34:13.080 --> 0:34:15.920 and you take all of these things into account, like 0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:19.839 the gains that are provided for in this contract is 0:34:20.320 --> 0:34:24.160 not enough when you consider the whole of everyone. 0:34:23.760 --> 0:34:25.319 Who works at UPS. 0:34:26.000 --> 0:34:32.719 You know, it's leaving behind families, right, Like yeah, it's 0:34:33.080 --> 0:34:33.680 it's wild. 0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:39.960 Yeah. And I think another thing that isn't talked about 0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:44.600 that much in terms of this is like the actual 0:34:44.719 --> 0:34:48.280 physical effect on your body of doing this kind of work, 0:34:48.960 --> 0:34:53.840 because this is like I don't know, this kind of 0:34:53.880 --> 0:34:58.120 work is intense enough that I mean there's there's there's 0:34:58.239 --> 0:35:00.879 very rare risk of injury, and there's also I mean 0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:05.760 just like you know, over the course of time, doing 0:35:05.800 --> 0:35:09.880 this kind of shit is going to like fuck up 0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:12.799 your body, and you know, like part part of the 0:35:12.840 --> 0:35:15.759 sort of bargain of like like part part of the 0:35:15.760 --> 0:35:17.640 bargain of this work is that you're getting you know, 0:35:17.800 --> 0:35:21.240 it's it's in some ways, like it's in some ways 0:35:21.280 --> 0:35:23.920 like you could think about it like if you're a 0:35:23.920 --> 0:35:25.640 middle of a football player, like you're gonna get your 0:35:25.640 --> 0:35:30.319 fucking brain destroyed by just repeated head trauma, right, and 0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:32.520 you know, so, so there's only a limited amount of 0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:34.839 time your body can physically handle this. And it's like, yeah, okay, 0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:36.239 it looks like you're getting a lot of money in 0:35:36.280 --> 0:35:37.719 a very short amount of time, but you have to, 0:35:38.280 --> 0:35:40.560 you know, you have to live with the sort of 0:35:40.560 --> 0:35:43.200 physical consequences of what happened of what happened to you 0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:45.000 on that job getting the money. So that money also 0:35:45.120 --> 0:35:47.439 like not just doesn't just have to get you through 0:35:47.520 --> 0:35:50.760 like now, right, like it also it has to also 0:35:51.840 --> 0:35:54.359 essentially be compensation to the physical damage that you're doing 0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:57.600 to your body by doing this shit. And you know, 0:35:57.719 --> 0:35:59.759 I think I think it. I think like these ways 0:35:59.840 --> 0:36:02.680 look even worse when you look at like, you know, 0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:04.319 when you when you think of it in terms of 0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:06.879 you know, in in in like in like not even 0:36:06.880 --> 0:36:08.720 not just in terms of immediate rent, but like in 0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:12.040 in the really long term of having to you know, 0:36:12.239 --> 0:36:14.480 live with the sort of physical damage that you take 0:36:14.719 --> 0:36:15.800 from doing this stuff. 0:36:16.920 --> 0:36:21.520 Yeah, and that's fine. I just had a coworker talking 0:36:21.560 --> 0:36:25.120 about that today actually, And because that's I mean, there 0:36:25.120 --> 0:36:27.719 are a lot of like college age kids you know, 0:36:27.760 --> 0:36:31.680 the early twenties. They at least from you know, my 0:36:31.760 --> 0:36:34.120 experience of notes kind of usually they're kind of like 0:36:34.120 --> 0:36:36.080 the quick turnover. I feel like a lot of people 0:36:36.120 --> 0:36:39.719 are staying more like their you know, thirties forties. You know, 0:36:39.760 --> 0:36:43.800 we have people older older than that too. On my line, 0:36:44.640 --> 0:36:46.960 I think part of that's just like kind of we 0:36:47.040 --> 0:36:51.320 understand the importance of i mean a gold tier uh 0:36:51.560 --> 0:36:56.000 health insurance plant and a pension. But you know, of 0:36:56.040 --> 0:36:59.520 course with uh, you know, being older, Uh, it's gonna 0:36:59.600 --> 0:37:02.400 you know, have even more of an effect on the body. 0:37:03.880 --> 0:37:06.200 And yeah, I know I've heard people talking about this 0:37:06.239 --> 0:37:07.879 where it's just like, oh, well, it's just part time 0:37:08.040 --> 0:37:11.120 or it's you know, entry level you know, quote unquote, 0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:13.439 Uh you don't need a degree for this, Like why 0:37:13.440 --> 0:37:14.960 do you think you should be paid more? And it's like, well, 0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:18.760 it's it's brutal. I mean, we get a ten minute break, 0:37:18.920 --> 0:37:22.279 we're working up to six hours. That is it Why 0:37:22.320 --> 0:37:25.040 they don't have to do a lunch break. I don't know. 0:37:25.480 --> 0:37:29.840 It seems like ups just always gets there their way, 0:37:30.080 --> 0:37:36.319 and uh that's you know, like state, local, bederal law 0:37:36.800 --> 0:37:40.000 that they don't care. Yeah, even this last contract and 0:37:40.200 --> 0:37:44.359 there's so many violations. Of course, you know, we got 0:37:44.400 --> 0:37:48.080 to whether you know this is yes or no, whatever 0:37:48.080 --> 0:37:50.040 the next contract is. You know, that's going to be 0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:51.879 a big part of the fight, is just holding them 0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:55.160 accountable and to the terms. 0:37:57.200 --> 0:38:02.359 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Like I you know, I've had coworkers 0:38:02.600 --> 0:38:06.160 out on you know, workers comp for like you know, 0:38:06.200 --> 0:38:08.719 doing physical therapy for the injuries that they got on 0:38:08.760 --> 0:38:12.400 the job for like months at a time. Right, these like, 0:38:13.800 --> 0:38:17.439 you know, we're sitting around loading boxes all day. And 0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:19.399 some of them are very light, but some of them 0:38:19.600 --> 0:38:21.240 are really fucking heavy. 0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:24.760 Some of them are really awkward to hold. They're weirdly shaped. 0:38:24.920 --> 0:38:28.880 Like there are some boxes where, like they tell you 0:38:28.920 --> 0:38:31.960 about ups, tells you about methods, the eight keys of 0:38:32.000 --> 0:38:35.320 lifting and lowering that you know should make it safe, 0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:38.520 but like there are some boxes where it's impossible to 0:38:38.600 --> 0:38:43.879 follow those those methods the absolute bane of my existence, 0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:47.880 and I recognize them every time I see them. I 0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:50.040 swear to God, these things must be just filled with lead, 0:38:50.080 --> 0:38:52.920 because you look at them and it's a very small box. 0:38:53.640 --> 0:38:56.000 You know, it's not more than like. 0:38:57.120 --> 0:39:02.120 Probably twelve inches long, you know, know, like no, not 0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:05.279 even twelve inches, probably more like seven inches long, you know, 0:39:05.480 --> 0:39:08.640 like six seven inches wide and then like two and 0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:11.400 a half inches you know deep, And that should be 0:39:11.440 --> 0:39:13.560 a very easy box, but it's like filled with lead 0:39:13.600 --> 0:39:16.080 and for whatever reason, it can weigh like thirty five 0:39:16.160 --> 0:39:21.560 to fifty pounds Jesus, And it's like one that box 0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:23.920 is too small to like have a team lift on 0:39:24.080 --> 0:39:26.520 because you can't have two people around something like that. 0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:30.040 And like, you know, when you pick up a box, 0:39:30.080 --> 0:39:33.160 you're supposed to keep the natural curve of your back, 0:39:33.200 --> 0:39:36.879 but do not over extend the curve. And you have 0:39:36.960 --> 0:39:40.080 to for those like packages like that, right, Like there's 0:39:40.120 --> 0:39:42.920 not a way to position yourself to lift them safely, 0:39:43.840 --> 0:39:46.440 and you kind of have to a little bit jerk up, 0:39:46.440 --> 0:39:48.520 which they tell you not to do, but that's the 0:39:48.560 --> 0:39:52.600 only way to get leverage on it. And yeah, like 0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:55.640 and you know, I've been in trailers where like a 0:39:55.680 --> 0:40:00.600 box like that was loaded precariously, like just slightly my head, 0:40:00.600 --> 0:40:02.600 and one time it came crashing down and I like 0:40:02.800 --> 0:40:05.000 neoed out of the way, like I was like in 0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:07.719 the fucking matrix, and I was just like, oh, if 0:40:07.800 --> 0:40:11.520 I had just been a little bit less responsive, that 0:40:11.560 --> 0:40:13.799 could have been a very serious head injury for me, 0:40:15.160 --> 0:40:18.840 and so yeah, the risk of like very severe injury. Like, 0:40:19.400 --> 0:40:21.840 you know, I busted my face open on a grate 0:40:22.000 --> 0:40:27.279 outside of where the what we call the cans, which 0:40:27.320 --> 0:40:30.839 are like the things that have all the packages. They 0:40:30.840 --> 0:40:32.719 bring them to the bay doors. I was unloading and 0:40:32.760 --> 0:40:36.160 I had to go between them, and I like. 0:40:36.239 --> 0:40:37.480 There was motor oil spilled. 0:40:37.520 --> 0:40:40.000 I tripped and I like smashed my open my face 0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:42.680 open on a fucking grate and had to get stitches. 0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:49.320 Like it's yeah, no, the safety involved with this job 0:40:49.719 --> 0:40:56.000 is not extremely guaranteed, and yeah, the risk of injury 0:40:56.080 --> 0:40:59.719 is high and we should be preemptively compensated for that. 0:41:01.160 --> 0:41:03.440 Yeah, it's like and even somehow if you managed to 0:41:03.480 --> 0:41:07.960 go like your whole career without a single injury, you know, 0:41:08.080 --> 0:41:10.840 there's well at least like more the kind of like 0:41:10.960 --> 0:41:15.440 accidental injury because it's still it's a lot of repetitive 0:41:15.440 --> 0:41:19.640 motion and you're gonna, I mean, eventually it's gonna take 0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:20.080 its tall. 0:41:21.040 --> 0:41:23.600 Right, we're doing, We're doing, We're doing some more ads. 0:41:24.120 --> 0:41:25.480 Yeah by things. 0:41:35.600 --> 0:41:38.840 All right, we are back. So I guess I know. 0:41:38.960 --> 0:41:41.520 Another aspect of this that I wanted to talk about 0:41:41.680 --> 0:41:48.160 has been the sort of broader strategy of trying to 0:41:48.200 --> 0:41:51.839 avoid strikes, and this has been both sort of to 0:41:51.880 --> 0:41:55.000 some extent run by union, to some extent like imposed 0:41:55.000 --> 0:41:57.319 from the top down. One of the things I wanted 0:41:57.320 --> 0:42:00.480 to talk about, Yeah, I think a sort of kind 0:42:00.480 --> 0:42:04.800 of underdiscussed aspect of what's been happening in the last 0:42:04.960 --> 0:42:09.880 sort of year or so has been Biden's willingness to 0:42:09.920 --> 0:42:14.839 get involved in strikes. Earlier, you know, Obama eventually got 0:42:14.880 --> 0:42:17.400 involved in a couple of strikes during his tenure, but 0:42:17.520 --> 0:42:19.960 he tended to not get involved until like a strike 0:42:20.000 --> 0:42:22.200 had been going on for like nine months or whatever. 0:42:23.000 --> 0:42:27.320 And Biden's been taking like a very very proactive approach 0:42:27.440 --> 0:42:30.960 to sort of I don't know, strike mitigation, I guess 0:42:31.080 --> 0:42:33.520 is the sort of like sanitized term you taker to there, 0:42:33.560 --> 0:42:36.520 like keeping labor piece. But he seems to have a 0:42:36.560 --> 0:42:39.360 sort of you know, he's to be getting very very involved, 0:42:39.440 --> 0:42:42.160 very quickly in trying to make sure that strikes don't happen. 0:42:42.760 --> 0:42:45.440 And you know the consequence of this is that we 0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:47.440 didn't get the rail strike that we should have gotten, 0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:51.560 and there's there's been a few other strikes that has 0:42:51.600 --> 0:42:53.759 sort of been averted, and I wanted to ask, I 0:42:53.760 --> 0:42:56.440 guess how you're thinking about this strike, not just sort 0:42:56.440 --> 0:42:59.680 of in terms of like the immediate benefits, but in 0:42:59.760 --> 0:43:03.600 terms terms of what it would actually mean if like 0:43:04.000 --> 0:43:08.000 another major strike sort of get shut down before we 0:43:08.000 --> 0:43:10.879 can get going in a year that is, I mean 0:43:11.080 --> 0:43:14.680 still even if the strike doesn't happen, a pretty sort 0:43:14.680 --> 0:43:18.200 of full year in labor terms. 0:43:19.080 --> 0:43:21.879 Yeah, yeah, well one, I guess I got to say 0:43:21.880 --> 0:43:25.200 thank you to the most pro labor president. 0:43:24.880 --> 0:43:30.240 Of our life. Yeah. No, he Yeah, you're absolutely right. 0:43:30.320 --> 0:43:35.160 He does seem to be getting involved early and mitigating them. 0:43:35.600 --> 0:43:39.719 If I was, if I had to speculate, I you know, 0:43:40.920 --> 0:43:43.640 he's very concerned about this whole economy thing that we 0:43:43.760 --> 0:43:48.320 keep talking about, right, and he doesn't want to see 0:43:48.360 --> 0:43:52.720 any big shocks to the economy. And you know that's 0:43:52.760 --> 0:43:57.640 something where I guess I disagree. I think, you know, 0:43:57.800 --> 0:44:01.080 I think a shock to the economy that is brought 0:44:01.120 --> 0:44:04.480 about by workers going on strike is a reminds them 0:44:04.760 --> 0:44:08.120 of what they have and what they move and what 0:44:08.160 --> 0:44:12.360 they create, right, And I think, yeah, the ruling class, 0:44:12.400 --> 0:44:16.440 you know, our politicians and the capitalists who own our politicians, 0:44:17.400 --> 0:44:20.719 they they don't want us to experience that, you know, 0:44:21.000 --> 0:44:27.160 like I remember even during the you know, the Trump administration, 0:44:28.080 --> 0:44:31.440 when you know, it was when during the government shutdown 0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:34.440 and Sarah Nelson got all the flight attendants to do 0:44:34.480 --> 0:44:37.400 a sick out and stuff like that, and kind of 0:44:37.560 --> 0:44:40.080 just like that the government shutdown had ended and they 0:44:40.080 --> 0:44:43.600 all went back to do government things, whatever those government 0:44:43.680 --> 0:44:48.120 things are. And you know, like people on Twitter, you know, 0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:51.240 they were talking about like, yeah, this is like workers 0:44:51.360 --> 0:44:55.000 have power to affect not only their own work conditions, 0:44:55.320 --> 0:44:59.120 but they can have broad implications on society, on the 0:44:59.120 --> 0:45:03.600 political climate, on what's going on. And yeah, there was absolutely, 0:45:03.640 --> 0:45:07.759 I think a contingent of centrist liberals that were like 0:45:08.320 --> 0:45:11.879 really frightened by that idea. You know, they like they 0:45:12.160 --> 0:45:16.000 like a society in which the right people with who 0:45:16.040 --> 0:45:19.279 went to the right schools and all of that, like 0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:21.239 where they are the ones that are in charge, and 0:45:21.280 --> 0:45:24.120 they are the ones that are shaping history with the 0:45:24.200 --> 0:45:27.600 pen strokes on like you know, whatever bills they're legislating, 0:45:28.640 --> 0:45:31.840 And yeah, I think they have a vested interest in 0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:37.239 making sure that workers don't get to experience that sense 0:45:37.239 --> 0:45:40.960 of autonomy that they can experience by going on strike 0:45:41.440 --> 0:45:44.760 and by seeing you know, exactly what kind of power 0:45:44.800 --> 0:45:47.920 they have and what it does, because they don't want it. 0:45:47.920 --> 0:45:50.160 They don't want it to get beyond what's going on 0:45:50.239 --> 0:45:50.880 in the workplace. 0:45:50.920 --> 0:45:52.600 They barely want it there, you know. 0:45:53.040 --> 0:45:57.400 Like so, yeah, yeah, I think there is a vested interest, 0:45:57.600 --> 0:46:00.879 And yeah, I have not I've been able to see 0:46:00.880 --> 0:46:06.400 it confirmed, but I have seen in articles where they 0:46:06.440 --> 0:46:08.640 will say that, you know, Sean O'Brien had met with 0:46:08.680 --> 0:46:11.240 President Biden, but then there isn't a link click through, 0:46:11.400 --> 0:46:13.600 so I can't figure out what the initial thing is. 0:46:14.040 --> 0:46:19.480 But I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised, Like, and it's 0:46:19.600 --> 0:46:22.480 it's a it's a damn shame. It's you know, it's 0:46:22.520 --> 0:46:25.960 a shame that the president of our local union, you know, 0:46:26.560 --> 0:46:28.560 should that have happened to come to it? 0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:28.959 Right. 0:46:29.160 --> 0:46:30.600 Yeah, that's the thing where it's like it's been really 0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:32.799 hard to get reliable information. And it's also possible they 0:46:32.840 --> 0:46:34.480 were sort of behind the scenes talks that we just 0:46:34.480 --> 0:46:37.400 don't know about. But you know, the place we know 0:46:37.520 --> 0:46:39.720 this happened is we know this happened between the rail strikes. 0:46:39.840 --> 0:46:43.520 There was a lot of pressure from rail unions to 0:46:44.200 --> 0:46:47.239 like like on on their rank and file to like 0:46:47.440 --> 0:46:49.680 get to just like sign on to some kind of agreement. 0:46:50.280 --> 0:46:54.080 And I think I think this is something that you know, 0:46:54.280 --> 0:46:56.919 in terms of sort of political repression, like it's something 0:46:56.960 --> 0:47:01.439 that's not understood in the same way, but like that 0:47:01.640 --> 0:47:06.840 is also still like that, like that that like negotiating 0:47:06.840 --> 0:47:08.480 behind the scenes, are putting pressure on and then you know, 0:47:08.520 --> 0:47:12.800 eventually Biden does just actively like mandate that the strike 0:47:12.880 --> 0:47:16.439 can't happen, right Like that is like that I will 0:47:16.520 --> 0:47:19.000 argue that that is in fact a full of strike breaking. 0:47:19.719 --> 0:47:21.080 M M agree. 0:47:21.239 --> 0:47:23.600 And I think I think people are tend to be 0:47:23.800 --> 0:47:27.319 less but but you know, specifically, the ability to sort 0:47:27.320 --> 0:47:31.080 of cut deals with unions, like this is something that 0:47:31.120 --> 0:47:34.600 the Republicans have like aren't like really good at. Like 0:47:34.640 --> 0:47:36.680 it's not it's not an ability that they really have. 0:47:36.760 --> 0:47:40.160 It's it's something that like is largely limited to the Democrats. 0:47:40.680 --> 0:47:42.520 And but you know, but this this means that they 0:47:42.520 --> 0:47:45.960 have sort of they have a unique capacity to repress 0:47:45.960 --> 0:47:50.799 social movements that isn't as obvious as sort of like 0:47:51.040 --> 0:47:54.160 you know, just like a bunch of strike breakers showing 0:47:54.239 --> 0:47:57.239 up or the cop showing up. But is there all 0:47:57.280 --> 0:47:59.359 the same And I think is in some ways more 0:47:59.480 --> 0:48:02.640 dangerous because you know, like you get these arguments with 0:48:02.719 --> 0:48:06.360 like with the rail strike, where like technically eventually Biden 0:48:06.480 --> 0:48:08.719 was able to get some kind of deal through for 0:48:09.080 --> 0:48:12.800 some sick time, right, but you know, and you have 0:48:13.400 --> 0:48:16.920 this sort of like liberal conception of what labor is 0:48:16.920 --> 0:48:20.080 where they're like, oh, well, everyone was wrong to like 0:48:20.160 --> 0:48:22.239 be mad at Biden for this, like they got the 0:48:22.280 --> 0:48:27.560 thing eventually. But you know, the problem here isn't it 0:48:27.600 --> 0:48:31.880 isn't just you know, strikes aren't just about the immediate 0:48:31.920 --> 0:48:34.440 thing that you're fighting for, right, like, they're they're also 0:48:34.520 --> 0:48:37.560 about like moving the class as a whole. They're about 0:48:37.560 --> 0:48:39.360 the experience of striking. They're about and then you know, 0:48:39.360 --> 0:48:41.080 and they're also about the fact that you will get 0:48:41.120 --> 0:48:43.600 a better deal if you win a strike. Then you 0:48:43.680 --> 0:48:46.840 will if you get like, you know, if if you 0:48:46.880 --> 0:48:49.799 get one of these sort of like negotiated deals like 0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:52.800 cut in the back room by Biden and like seventeen 0:48:52.880 --> 0:48:57.080 unions in the Manufacturer's Association. And so I think, I 0:48:57.120 --> 0:49:01.560 think I think it's important to understand that, you know, 0:49:03.080 --> 0:49:07.600 the like there is a fundamental sort of difference between 0:49:09.200 --> 0:49:12.719 like liberalism sort of conception of you know, you you 0:49:12.800 --> 0:49:15.360 achieve material gains, and it doesn't really matter what the 0:49:15.400 --> 0:49:18.759 process is, right, or you know, the process is like 0:49:19.000 --> 0:49:22.280 you go through the legislative domain. There's an actual difference 0:49:22.280 --> 0:49:25.680 between that and the things that happens DRAE to strike, 0:49:25.719 --> 0:49:28.440 which is, you know, there's there's an actual process of 0:49:28.480 --> 0:49:30.880 like the building of power of workers and you know, 0:49:30.920 --> 0:49:34.920 building the autonomy of the class itself. And I don't know, 0:49:34.920 --> 0:49:36.360 I think I think those are very different. And I 0:49:36.400 --> 0:49:39.320 think I think a lot of what we've been seeing 0:49:39.400 --> 0:49:44.520 here is an attempt both by unions themselves, by and 0:49:44.600 --> 0:49:47.759 you know, by by business leaders, and also by like 0:49:47.880 --> 0:49:49.920 the president and the Democratic Party to try to make 0:49:49.960 --> 0:49:51.600 sure that this doesn't happen and that they can sort 0:49:51.640 --> 0:49:58.799 of contain this really explosive labor moments and prevent it 0:49:58.840 --> 0:50:00.560 from sort of turning into more. 0:50:01.600 --> 0:50:05.200 Yeah, I think that's very true. I think that you know, 0:50:06.040 --> 0:50:10.799 the unions, you know, have long been divorced from their 0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:14.239 original roots. Is like, you know, this was a communist, 0:50:14.320 --> 0:50:17.560 socialist This sprung out of communism, socialism, anarchism. It was 0:50:17.600 --> 0:50:22.080 about workers banding together to not only collectively bargained just 0:50:22.120 --> 0:50:25.840 for the workplaces, but for society wide issues, right, unions 0:50:25.920 --> 0:50:30.759 used to be explicitly political, and I you know, as 0:50:30.800 --> 0:50:33.960 we've like seen this rise in political conscience, you know, 0:50:34.120 --> 0:50:39.319 over like this last decade. The ruling class and you know, 0:50:39.400 --> 0:50:43.719 the entrenched union bureaucrats that have long been you know, 0:50:43.800 --> 0:50:47.360 divorced from those origins, I think, have a very vested 0:50:47.640 --> 0:50:54.960 interest and you know, not having labor go back to 0:50:55.200 --> 0:50:58.120 those roots to and stuff like that, you know, it 0:50:58.160 --> 0:51:01.960 threatens it obviously, the working or the ruling class power, 0:51:02.000 --> 0:51:05.239 excuse me, And you know it threatens your union bureaucrat 0:51:05.360 --> 0:51:10.239 jobs when workers start like demanding more from like what 0:51:10.480 --> 0:51:12.600 the labor movement can provide for them. 0:51:12.960 --> 0:51:13.160 Right. 0:51:14.120 --> 0:51:17.440 So I think that's all, that's all very true, And 0:51:17.560 --> 0:51:21.160 it's just that this is another avenue where collective change 0:51:21.200 --> 0:51:24.400 is possible, and the state and capital will always clamp 0:51:24.440 --> 0:51:29.120 down on any avenue where change can be achieved through 0:51:29.120 --> 0:51:33.359 those means. So I think that's really really what we're 0:51:33.360 --> 0:51:34.040 seeing here. 0:51:34.719 --> 0:51:36.880 Yeah, And I don't know, I mean, I think I 0:51:36.960 --> 0:51:41.279 think another thing that's worth pointing out is that like 0:51:41.760 --> 0:51:45.640 part of the reason that like part of the reason 0:51:45.840 --> 0:51:47.440 that you know, if you if you go back to 0:51:47.480 --> 0:51:49.120 sort of like when when the error of the sort 0:51:49.120 --> 0:51:52.400 of decline of unionism happened, right, Like, part of the 0:51:52.440 --> 0:51:56.960 reason why the Reagan era repression worked was that a 0:51:57.000 --> 0:51:59.680 lot of these unions had already sort of hollowed out 0:52:00.040 --> 0:52:02.920 the radical core of like what had been their union organizers. 0:52:02.960 --> 0:52:05.160 They had purged, you know, like the CIO, I mean 0:52:05.160 --> 0:52:08.480 even back as there's always like the forties, like the 0:52:08.520 --> 0:52:13.440 CIO purged like all of its leftist members, and you know, 0:52:13.480 --> 0:52:17.799 you got these successive like these these successive sort of 0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:21.480 iterations of unionism that were less and less militant, and 0:52:21.680 --> 0:52:23.680 you know, like you can you can you can literally 0:52:23.719 --> 0:52:25.960 see what the result of that has been, right, like 0:52:26.680 --> 0:52:30.160 union density down to like six percent. And so you know, 0:52:30.280 --> 0:52:32.520 if if if if, if it keeps going like this 0:52:32.640 --> 0:52:35.760 and we keep getting these sort of like sustained efforts 0:52:35.800 --> 0:52:38.480 to make sure that it never redevelops again, Like yeah, 0:52:38.600 --> 0:52:41.959 like it's we're gonna we're gonna be stuck there. 0:52:42.719 --> 0:52:44.600 Yeah, And I mean it's just yeah, I mean, specific 0:52:44.640 --> 0:52:47.960 to those ups contracts. Can absolutely see that, you know, 0:52:48.120 --> 0:52:50.800 by looking at the wage growth you know, through the 0:52:50.880 --> 0:52:54.880 last forty years, or maybe the lack thereof more of 0:52:54.880 --> 0:52:59.279 the stagnating wages just you know, between either you know, 0:52:59.400 --> 0:53:02.239 Union of fish are you know, even in the you know, 0:53:02.320 --> 0:53:04.640 Biden coming in. I think it's like, you know, more 0:53:04.719 --> 0:53:07.799 or less like these people who aren't going you know, 0:53:08.200 --> 0:53:12.920 who didn't enter the economy, uh, you know within the 0:53:13.040 --> 0:53:17.080 last you know decade or two. You know, I don't 0:53:17.120 --> 0:53:20.560 know at all really what what our experiences are. Uh 0:53:20.840 --> 0:53:24.000 you know what kind of challenges and struggles and burdens 0:53:24.000 --> 0:53:29.279 were facing. And I mean especially and not prepared at 0:53:29.320 --> 0:53:33.360 all for you know, this world with a drastically changing climate. 0:53:34.719 --> 0:53:35.120 Yeah. 0:53:35.200 --> 0:53:37.600 Yeah, and then like you know, also to go back 0:53:37.880 --> 0:53:40.440 to like you know, the decline of you know, how 0:53:40.560 --> 0:53:45.440 unions have operated you know, over these last like for 0:53:45.440 --> 0:53:46.520 for some decades. 0:53:46.680 --> 0:53:46.879 Right. 0:53:47.040 --> 0:53:48.920 I think this is something I talked about a lot, 0:53:49.000 --> 0:53:51.080 and I talked about it, I think on the last podcast. 0:53:51.560 --> 0:53:55.719 But you know, once the the organized left was kind 0:53:55.719 --> 0:53:57.719 of purged out of all of these unions, you know, 0:53:57.880 --> 0:54:00.240 unions kind of became about a service mall. 0:54:01.080 --> 0:54:03.759 And you know that's when the union. 0:54:03.560 --> 0:54:07.560 Leadership, you know does you know, like you on the 0:54:07.560 --> 0:54:10.480 floor are enforcing your contract, You're bringing your grievances to 0:54:10.560 --> 0:54:13.040 the union, and the union is getting something done about them. 0:54:13.239 --> 0:54:13.439 Right. 0:54:14.280 --> 0:54:15.560 And I think you. 0:54:15.440 --> 0:54:19.360 Know, that model in and of itself is indicative of 0:54:20.080 --> 0:54:24.719 a decline of a collective action, right, that reduces the 0:54:24.840 --> 0:54:27.759 union to Yeah, that's the entity you're going you go 0:54:27.840 --> 0:54:30.440 to when there is an issue in the enforcement of 0:54:30.440 --> 0:54:33.520 your contract and they negotiate a new contract for you, 0:54:34.360 --> 0:54:37.319 and you know, that's that's the service model type, right, 0:54:37.360 --> 0:54:39.120 And that's like what we're seeing a lot of. That's 0:54:39.120 --> 0:54:41.080 what like, you know, a lot of the business unions 0:54:41.160 --> 0:54:43.680 do and stuff like that. Some of them do it 0:54:43.760 --> 0:54:47.719 better than others, you know. But then there's also the 0:54:47.840 --> 0:54:51.520 organizing model, where you use the union as it means 0:54:51.560 --> 0:54:56.719 to make your members militant, and they do contract enforcement 0:54:56.719 --> 0:55:00.120 on the floor and they like you know, organ i 0:55:00.440 --> 0:55:03.160 protests at their work site, and they like you know, 0:55:03.200 --> 0:55:05.640 they get involved in you know, issues outside of the 0:55:05.680 --> 0:55:10.120 work site, right, And I think, yeah, like watching the 0:55:10.200 --> 0:55:13.640 service model kind of prevail over these last you know, 0:55:13.760 --> 0:55:17.399 some decades over the organizing model is just yeah, it's 0:55:17.520 --> 0:55:23.440 absolutely just another sign of collective action being stamped down 0:55:23.640 --> 0:55:24.759 wherever it can be. 0:55:25.600 --> 0:55:28.320 You know, there's this an interesting thing with the there's 0:55:28.320 --> 0:55:30.080 an interesting thing with the service model that I see 0:55:30.080 --> 0:55:32.160 a lot where it's like, you know, when when when 0:55:32.200 --> 0:55:36.799 when you're getting like sort of union inoculation, uh like stuff, right, 0:55:36.800 --> 0:55:39.560 they'll be like, ah, like the management is going to 0:55:39.600 --> 0:55:41.479 tell you that like the union is an outside force 0:55:41.520 --> 0:55:43.319 and it's not. The union is actually you. And it's 0:55:43.320 --> 0:55:47.080 like this is true. But also like, damn, I wonder 0:55:47.120 --> 0:55:49.640 where the idea that the union is an outside force 0:55:49.680 --> 0:55:52.560 it is not actually you came from. Like it couldn't 0:55:52.960 --> 0:55:56.200 you know, it's it's like it could it couldn't possibly 0:55:56.239 --> 0:55:58.520 have anything to do with the way you run your union, 0:55:59.080 --> 0:56:03.000 Like yeah. 0:56:01.719 --> 0:56:04.200 Absolutely, absolutely, Yeah. 0:56:04.200 --> 0:56:06.120 I think we were talking about that last time, like 0:56:06.200 --> 0:56:09.440 the kind of like the lack of onboarding engagement by 0:56:09.440 --> 0:56:14.319 the union. Yeah, I mean especially you know, I mean yeah, 0:56:14.600 --> 0:56:18.080 I mean I know this. I mean other union members too, 0:56:18.080 --> 0:56:20.319 where like does kind of feel like they're like, oh, 0:56:20.400 --> 0:56:23.000 I don't have all these benefits or higher pay or 0:56:23.600 --> 0:56:25.239 or you know, we're thinking about striking, but we don't 0:56:25.239 --> 0:56:27.880 even have a strike bund. You know, we don't know 0:56:27.920 --> 0:56:32.560 how exactly well weather the storm. I mean that's something 0:56:32.600 --> 0:56:35.879 I hear you know, a lot on the shop floor. 0:56:35.920 --> 0:56:40.480 It's like when talking about you know, our union, you know, 0:56:40.520 --> 0:56:42.799 it's it's always the union, I know, I say that 0:56:42.880 --> 0:56:45.080 a ton too, But I mean I kind of feel 0:56:45.080 --> 0:56:47.520 like the language we just use like day to day 0:56:47.560 --> 0:56:50.920 talking about it, you know, I kind of there's not 0:56:51.040 --> 0:56:54.560 like inherent separation when it's like, oh, it's the union, 0:56:54.560 --> 0:56:56.600 it's the some you know, it's this outside thing. It's 0:56:56.640 --> 0:56:59.520 not oh, it's a collection of all you know, rank 0:56:59.520 --> 0:57:01.680 and filement, whereas it's us. 0:57:03.120 --> 0:57:05.440 Yeah, and it doesn't. But the thing is, yeah, it 0:57:05.480 --> 0:57:09.720 doesn't become that unless you have a really high level 0:57:09.719 --> 0:57:14.000 of participation and then also like a systemic effort to 0:57:14.080 --> 0:57:16.720 make sure that to make sure everyone is involved and 0:57:16.760 --> 0:57:20.280 to make sure that you know, the the union functions 0:57:20.320 --> 0:57:22.920 in such a way that even that that like you 0:57:22.960 --> 0:57:28.840 know that that decisions of membership action matters. And I 0:57:28.880 --> 0:57:31.120 don't know, I think I think I think it's really 0:57:32.880 --> 0:57:36.520 I think it's really easy to you know, in this 0:57:36.600 --> 0:57:39.600 moment where unions are incredibly like you know, with the 0:57:39.960 --> 0:57:42.080 totally the actual amount of like unions in the US 0:57:42.160 --> 0:57:49.000 is really small, and also simultaneously, like you know, we're 0:57:49.040 --> 0:57:51.040 seeing a sort of reservience of union organizing. I think 0:57:51.040 --> 0:57:53.160 it's really really easy to sort of fall into this 0:57:53.280 --> 0:57:58.760 trap and like be be completely uncritical of the way 0:57:58.800 --> 0:58:02.480 that unions have functions. Because again, like if the current 0:58:02.560 --> 0:58:06.680 model of unions that exists right now, like if that 0:58:06.800 --> 0:58:11.000 stuff worked, like we wouldn't be in in in the 0:58:11.040 --> 0:58:15.000 sort of conditions that we're in now. And that calls 0:58:15.080 --> 0:58:18.280 for you know, like that that that calls for collective action, 0:58:18.560 --> 0:58:20.840 and you know one of the things that calls for 0:58:21.080 --> 0:58:22.880 is being willing to go on strike. 0:58:23.960 --> 0:58:26.160 Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. 0:58:26.200 --> 0:58:28.840 Do you two have anything else that you wanted to add? 0:58:29.840 --> 0:58:33.240 Yeah, no, because like something that you know, when I 0:58:33.240 --> 0:58:36.840 think about, like, you know, how do we get back 0:58:36.880 --> 0:58:40.120 to like this sort of you know where a union is, 0:58:40.240 --> 0:58:42.120 you know, we are the union. A union is a 0:58:42.520 --> 0:58:46.480 like is a collective of workers advocating for their rights. 0:58:46.560 --> 0:58:51.160 Right they are banding together, you know, they're negotiating together. 0:58:51.520 --> 0:58:55.400 And when I think about you know, the Teamsters, you know, 0:58:55.440 --> 0:58:58.240 and how they operate right now. And you know, we 0:58:58.360 --> 0:59:02.080 just had that big reform slate when where Seawn O'Brien 0:59:02.120 --> 0:59:04.400 won and then you know, delivered us this contract. And 0:59:04.440 --> 0:59:06.919 you know, Shaun O'Brien did do like they they did 0:59:07.120 --> 0:59:09.360 in TDU did do other good things. They got rid 0:59:09.360 --> 0:59:16.080 of that constitutional rule that Oliver mentioned earlier. But I 0:59:16.080 --> 0:59:19.080 think you know, when we talk about like bringing down 0:59:19.080 --> 0:59:21.960 that barrier between the union and the members, the next 0:59:22.000 --> 0:59:25.040 most obvious step for me is that we need to 0:59:25.040 --> 0:59:29.480 get to open bargaining in this union. And frankly, I 0:59:29.520 --> 0:59:33.680 think open bargaining, or the fact that this bargaining was closed, 0:59:33.720 --> 0:59:36.600 you know, is behind it's behind closed doors. You know, 0:59:36.680 --> 0:59:41.080 there were NDAs signed, there were rank and file members there, 0:59:41.480 --> 0:59:43.680 but they also couldn't tell us about it because of 0:59:43.680 --> 0:59:48.560 those you know, NDAs. Open bargaining is what's going to 0:59:49.160 --> 0:59:53.560 solve this, because this, like the whole fiasco about this 0:59:53.680 --> 0:59:59.000 tentative agreement and now all the kind of resulting hostility 0:59:59.080 --> 1:00:02.640 that is felt between members and leadership and members and 1:00:02.680 --> 1:00:03.640 even other members. 1:00:04.640 --> 1:00:06.600 I think it's you know, like. 1:00:06.840 --> 1:00:09.320 So much of this is due to a failure of 1:00:09.400 --> 1:00:13.120 comms and the fact that we did not know what 1:00:13.280 --> 1:00:18.600 was being discussed in these negotiations at any time, except 1:00:18.640 --> 1:00:22.120 for the vague highlights that they could tell us about, right, 1:00:22.840 --> 1:00:25.480 and then you know, they release a highlight reel that 1:00:25.720 --> 1:00:29.720 has very confusing language. They eventually do release the contract, 1:00:29.760 --> 1:00:32.880 but not all of the memorandums of understanding that would 1:00:32.880 --> 1:00:37.120 help us understand what is actually in that contract. And 1:00:38.120 --> 1:00:41.680 you know, they're releasing all of this information in a 1:00:41.720 --> 1:00:45.400 way that is going to result in people not understanding 1:00:45.440 --> 1:00:50.400 what's in it. And I really do think open bargaining 1:00:50.640 --> 1:00:53.840 is the next step that you know, reformers in this 1:00:54.080 --> 1:00:57.240 union need to be advocating and organizing for. 1:00:59.200 --> 1:01:01.320 Because that this has just kind of. 1:01:01.240 --> 1:01:06.280 Been a real ship show, to be honest, and I yeah, 1:01:06.320 --> 1:01:09.440 I think it's a comms failure to be perfectly honest. 1:01:09.880 --> 1:01:13.480 So yeah, yeah, and I would I would absolutely agree 1:01:13.480 --> 1:01:16.240 with that, you know, and I know like there was 1:01:16.640 --> 1:01:21.120 there was a IBT webinar with Sean O'Brien, and you 1:01:21.160 --> 1:01:24.680 know he even spoke to misinformation, but didn't you know, 1:01:24.920 --> 1:01:29.040 elaborate on what it was or you know, how or 1:01:29.120 --> 1:01:34.760 why it's wrong. It's just like, hey, you've got our emails, addresses, 1:01:35.000 --> 1:01:38.320 phone numbers. We're here on this webinar. Like you can 1:01:38.320 --> 1:01:42.480 correct the record anytime, you know. It's uh, if you're 1:01:42.520 --> 1:01:46.760 worried about something that's not true and may may or 1:01:46.840 --> 1:01:50.040 may not influence people's votes, like you can do something 1:01:50.080 --> 1:01:53.200 about that. Like you you have a lot of money, 1:01:53.640 --> 1:01:56.640 you have you know, a comms team to use it. 1:01:57.520 --> 1:02:01.600 It's you know, just talk to your members like they're 1:02:01.840 --> 1:02:06.640 real people. Uh, you know, we can we can understand shit. Uh, 1:02:06.880 --> 1:02:11.480 you don't gotta just you know, get get angry or 1:02:11.560 --> 1:02:13.640 even kind of like I was saying earlier, where it's 1:02:13.680 --> 1:02:16.280 just like it's almost just like feels like this framing 1:02:16.320 --> 1:02:20.480 where anything you know that's a dissenting view or a 1:02:20.520 --> 1:02:23.840 critique you know, so oh, it's just it's almost information. 1:02:24.120 --> 1:02:25.960 Don't don't pay any attention to it. 1:02:26.640 --> 1:02:28.760 Yeah, which is you know, I don't know, like I 1:02:29.080 --> 1:02:33.000 I've seen this in a couple of I don't know, 1:02:33.600 --> 1:02:36.400 like just I've seen this in a couple of sort 1:02:36.440 --> 1:02:38.640 of union things we've coverled on this show. Is like, 1:02:40.480 --> 1:02:44.360 I don't know, and and an incredible unwillingness of union 1:02:44.440 --> 1:02:46.480 leadership to even like consider a position is not their 1:02:46.520 --> 1:02:49.120 own and to just sort of like immediately, you know, 1:02:49.400 --> 1:02:52.000 when confronted with another things just immediately attempt to completely 1:02:52.080 --> 1:02:59.200 delegitimate them. And that sucks. Yeah, it's just not a 1:03:00.360 --> 1:03:02.000 not a great way to run a union. 1:03:02.800 --> 1:03:04.600 No, no, you definitely you know. 1:03:04.920 --> 1:03:08.680 And I've been seeing this this uh this closing like 1:03:08.840 --> 1:03:15.120 sort of rank around around leadership, right, and it's not 1:03:15.280 --> 1:03:18.400 something that inspires trust in union leadership. 1:03:18.440 --> 1:03:22.040 Whatsoever. Right, Like, you know, you could be a member 1:03:22.120 --> 1:03:23.200 that you. 1:03:23.160 --> 1:03:26.640 Know doesn't understand something, just has a question and then 1:03:26.680 --> 1:03:29.440 you kind of getting and you kind of just. 1:03:29.520 --> 1:03:30.680 End up being stonewalled. 1:03:31.800 --> 1:03:34.080 And you know, you're told, well, you know, go to 1:03:34.120 --> 1:03:36.480 this meeting where we're going to explain things and dah 1:03:36.520 --> 1:03:38.720 da da da da da da da dah. And it's like, yeah, 1:03:38.720 --> 1:03:40.400 but you know, I have you on the phone, now, 1:03:41.000 --> 1:03:44.800 can you explain it now? And you know, and it's 1:03:44.880 --> 1:03:48.800 as it's like they're taking all of these concerns as 1:03:49.440 --> 1:03:53.480 a personal blow to their ego, right Like they're taking 1:03:53.520 --> 1:03:56.840 it personally, as if people having concerns about what this 1:03:57.000 --> 1:04:00.520 contract does and does not stipulate is like an attack 1:04:00.560 --> 1:04:06.600 on their moral character. And it's just really fucking frustrating. 1:04:06.760 --> 1:04:10.280 I gotta be real with you. And you know it 1:04:10.360 --> 1:04:13.040 doesn't say a lot for the overall democratic nature of 1:04:13.080 --> 1:04:17.280 the union either, right, Like you know this is like 1:04:18.080 --> 1:04:20.160 you know, you're kind of being told, well, you know, 1:04:20.320 --> 1:04:23.400 keep your opinions to yourself, accept our word for it. 1:04:23.480 --> 1:04:25.000 Like you can vote however you want. 1:04:25.040 --> 1:04:27.800 You know, this is one number one vote, but you 1:04:27.800 --> 1:04:30.680 know you can't be going online talking about it. You 1:04:31.040 --> 1:04:33.280 like can't be going talking to your coworkers about it 1:04:33.280 --> 1:04:35.880 because you don't have all the information, you're not understanding 1:04:35.880 --> 1:04:41.560 it correctly, and it's just like, well, can you get 1:04:41.600 --> 1:04:43.080 better at explaining it? 1:04:43.280 --> 1:04:46.680 Can you not react this way? 1:04:47.040 --> 1:04:51.720 Like can we have like a thing where like we 1:04:51.840 --> 1:04:53.920 can just like fucking talk about what's in it and 1:04:53.960 --> 1:04:58.360 what's not in it? And yeah, it's it's just again 1:04:58.560 --> 1:04:59.880 been real fucking frustrating. 1:05:00.040 --> 1:05:03.680 Yeah. Yeah. It's another thing I mean too, is you know, 1:05:03.720 --> 1:05:06.480 any contract language maybe it should either be more clear 1:05:06.520 --> 1:05:08.480 or concise, or if it's going to be more on 1:05:08.520 --> 1:05:12.160 the legal east side, you know, put out a little 1:05:12.160 --> 1:05:17.480 like contract like explainer guide maybe especially around key language 1:05:17.680 --> 1:05:20.320 or language that they know is maybe vague or going 1:05:20.400 --> 1:05:29.560 to cause you know, issues of like understanding it. And 1:05:29.600 --> 1:05:32.560 even you know, one one other thing about like you know, 1:05:32.640 --> 1:05:36.400 open bargaining was you know, looking at the ib T 1:05:36.600 --> 1:05:40.120 press release, you know there's one paragraph and it starts 1:05:40.680 --> 1:05:43.320 rank and final members served on the committee for the 1:05:43.360 --> 1:05:47.640 first time. It continues on later saying you know, our 1:05:47.640 --> 1:05:50.360 hard work has finally paid or our hard work has 1:05:50.400 --> 1:05:55.400 paid off, and you know, and goes on to them say, 1:05:55.480 --> 1:05:58.560 you know, this is the most historic contract we've ever had, 1:05:59.560 --> 1:06:01.680 so kind of seems like right there where it's like, well, 1:06:01.800 --> 1:06:06.000 if limited member participation found by NDA has led to 1:06:06.040 --> 1:06:09.400 this historic contract, maybe it's time to involve all of us. 1:06:10.560 --> 1:06:10.760 Yep. 1:06:12.160 --> 1:06:13.960 And also, you know, the rank and file that are 1:06:13.960 --> 1:06:18.120 on these committees are appointed by leadership, so we don't 1:06:18.200 --> 1:06:21.560 we don't get to choose who these people are. And 1:06:22.800 --> 1:06:26.160 it's like leadership absolutely just has the ability to be like, well, 1:06:26.200 --> 1:06:30.200 I'm gonna, you know, appoint the ones that I like 1:06:30.240 --> 1:06:32.520 the most, that I have the best relationship with, that 1:06:33.360 --> 1:06:36.360 I know thinks the sun kind of shines out of 1:06:36.360 --> 1:06:42.400 my ass. And yeah, there's just this absolutely overall lack 1:06:42.440 --> 1:06:50.120 of a democratic lack of a democratic internal culture. You know, 1:06:50.240 --> 1:06:56.760 we elect you know, our officers, most of them, but. 1:06:56.800 --> 1:06:57.960 We don't elect stewards. 1:06:58.480 --> 1:07:01.040 We don't really we don't elect our business agents or 1:07:01.200 --> 1:07:04.440 like anything like that. We vote on our contracts and 1:07:04.640 --> 1:07:07.800 that's it, you know, at our union meetings. I've had 1:07:07.840 --> 1:07:09.960 one union meeting where we did a vote that was 1:07:10.000 --> 1:07:16.560 introduced by leadership. Right, It's just it's, yeah, it's not 1:07:16.640 --> 1:07:19.880 the most democratic culture. And that's another thing that that 1:07:19.960 --> 1:07:21.120 needs to change as well. 1:07:22.400 --> 1:07:23.680 Yeah, and I mean I think that goes back to 1:07:23.760 --> 1:07:27.960 a sort of like, you know, a fundamental political conflict, 1:07:28.360 --> 1:07:32.000 which is like, is democracy when you vote for someone 1:07:32.040 --> 1:07:34.439 else to make every decision? Or is democracy when people 1:07:34.480 --> 1:07:38.959 collectively make decisions themselves? And the sort of slipperydus of 1:07:39.640 --> 1:07:43.280 those two things causes you know, like causes you know, 1:07:43.520 --> 1:07:46.560 allows people who essentially want to be the only ones 1:07:46.560 --> 1:07:48.280 who ever get to make decisions to be able to 1:07:48.280 --> 1:07:52.120 claim that they are in favor of democracy or whatever. 1:07:53.360 --> 1:07:55.840 But you know mean like mean that they get to 1:07:55.840 --> 1:07:59.160 make all decisions after they get elected, and not mean 1:07:59.240 --> 1:08:02.120 actual people's make decisions for themselves. 1:08:03.960 --> 1:08:08.920 Yeah, yes, I need a more song who says it's 1:08:08.920 --> 1:08:12.400 more of a delegate role than a you know, representative. 1:08:13.280 --> 1:08:15.560 Okay, I guess, I guess my My final thing is 1:08:15.760 --> 1:08:19.280 I yeah, you you two are both encouraging are going 1:08:19.320 --> 1:08:23.599 to encourage people to vote no on this contract for it, 1:08:25.160 --> 1:08:31.280 the the the the surely long list of both technical, procedural, 1:08:31.960 --> 1:08:38.080 I material and like broadly social reasons. 1:08:39.720 --> 1:08:44.200 Yeah, it's correct. I'll be Yeah, I'll be voting no 1:08:44.320 --> 1:08:49.400 and also advocating for that and also I mean just 1:08:49.720 --> 1:08:52.160 also advocating people to vote as well. 1:08:53.760 --> 1:09:02.759 Yes, big same on that low union participation and sends 1:09:02.760 --> 1:09:06.439 a bad message to the company. So definitely definitely doing 1:09:06.479 --> 1:09:11.759 both and continuing to have those conversations on the shop 1:09:11.800 --> 1:09:15.000 floors with folks explaining my concerns and stuff like that. 1:09:15.560 --> 1:09:18.120 But yeah, no, I'm I'm also going to be voting 1:09:18.200 --> 1:09:20.040 no on this contract as well. 1:09:23.400 --> 1:09:28.439 Yeah, so that is Yeah, I guess I guess that 1:09:28.439 --> 1:09:31.400 that that is our coverage of this. There is still 1:09:31.439 --> 1:09:35.080 time for there is still time for there to actually 1:09:35.120 --> 1:09:36.880 be a striker, for this contract to fail and for 1:09:36.880 --> 1:09:40.120 people to fight for a better one. And yeah, I 1:09:40.160 --> 1:09:43.280 wish both of you two good luck in fighting this 1:09:43.800 --> 1:09:47.400 and yeah, and thank you both for coming on. 1:09:48.320 --> 1:09:50.040 Yeah, yeah, thanks so much for having us. 1:09:50.120 --> 1:09:52.960 I was excited to give you guys an update about 1:09:53.479 --> 1:09:55.840 all the crazy shit we talked about in the first episode. 1:09:56.080 --> 1:09:58.200 Yeah, I'm glad, glad, glad we've got. 1:09:58.120 --> 1:10:00.760 To talk about it a pleasure of being And yeah, 1:10:00.960 --> 1:10:02.080 appreciate the time. 1:10:02.920 --> 1:10:05.640 Yeah, do you do you have anything to plug before. 1:10:06.520 --> 1:10:10.760 You know, a yes or no vote. Solidarity all all 1:10:10.800 --> 1:10:14.840 workers and everyone on the shop floor. And you know, 1:10:14.920 --> 1:10:18.800 we'll got to keep on fighting for better conditions. 1:10:21.160 --> 1:10:24.840 Yeah, and you too, dear listener, can fight for better 1:10:24.840 --> 1:10:28.400 conditions in your own workplace. And yeah, if one day, 1:10:29.120 --> 1:10:31.680 one day, fight for a world we don't have workplaces 1:10:31.720 --> 1:10:32.280 like this at all. 1:10:32.720 --> 1:10:34.480 Amen, hallelujah. 1:10:39.240 --> 1:10:41.719 It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 1:10:41.800 --> 1:10:44.479 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 1:10:44.520 --> 1:10:46.760 cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the 1:10:46.760 --> 1:10:50.240 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 1:10:50.760 --> 1:10:52.880 You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 1:10:52.960 --> 1:10:57.000 monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,