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Speaker 1: It, it could happen. Here the podcast where things happen and

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Speaker 1: sometimes things maybe don't happen, And once again the thing

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Speaker 1: maybe not happening is the strike at UPS. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: stuff has happened since we lash recorded. And also there

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Speaker 1: was the thing that happened in the middle of the recording,

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Speaker 1: which was the announcement of the tentative agreement. And so

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Speaker 1: to talk more about what's been happening since and what's

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Speaker 1: sort of in this deal because we now know more

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Speaker 1: details about it is once again Rehee Smith and Oliver Rose,

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Speaker 1: who are to rank and file UPS teamsters, and once

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Speaker 1: again they do not represent the union, are speaking as individuals,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, but welcome back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm good to be back.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having us on again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad. I'm happy to talk to you. So

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Speaker 1: all right, so last time we found out in the

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Speaker 1: middle of recording that there is a deal struck, and

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Speaker 1: I guess I wanted to start by talking a bit

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Speaker 1: about what's been happening since then and what the sort

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Speaker 1: of what sort of organizing has been happening, what the

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Speaker 1: sort of union bureaucracy has been doing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a Well, it's been kind of kind of crazy. Basically,

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Speaker 4: you know, we had that highlight reel that we all got,

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Speaker 4: and then it was a bit before we got the

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Speaker 4: actual contract, at least like a few days. And since then,

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Speaker 4: you know, you're in union bureaucracy has been promoting these

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Speaker 4: contract Q and A sessions and stuff like that, and

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Speaker 4: they had three of them last Sunday and one of

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Speaker 4: them this Monday, and voting has opened up. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's it's been a bit, been a bit uh crazy feeling,

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Speaker 4: to be honest. Uh, yeah, yeah, it's been wild.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Of course, you know, while we're recording, you know,

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Speaker 3: we get the tenet of an agreement DRAP and you

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Speaker 3: know it's framed as you know, this big historic uh

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Speaker 3: you know, this game changer. So and you know, of course,

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Speaker 3: for the first day, we just had what was in

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Speaker 3: the press release. Even some of that language was a

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Speaker 3: little bit confusing. Wasn't until Team Series, where a democratic

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Speaker 3: union also had their own like press release clarified some language.

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Speaker 3: And then you know we're kind of just like, okay,

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Speaker 3: we'll get you know, we're told we'll be getting the

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Speaker 3: kind of agreement language next week and chance to you know,

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Speaker 3: debrief with the local, but really like the the I

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Speaker 3: think it was the following day the actual language comes out,

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Speaker 3: you know, and some of the things where it's you know,

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Speaker 3: there's like a promise with the uh all the general

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Speaker 3: wage increases going on top of those market rate adjustments

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Speaker 3: we're speaking about, which are basically wages that are that

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Speaker 3: ups can you know, add or even remove that's not

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Speaker 3: actually tied to the contract wages and you know, so

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Speaker 3: one of the things was, yeah, getting those raises on top,

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Speaker 3: but there was no contract language you know in there,

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Speaker 3: which definitely caused I think a lot of confusion concern

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Speaker 3: among rank and file members. And it actually took one

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Speaker 3: of the locals, uh, you know, having a no endorsement

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Speaker 3: before we even saw this memorandum of understanding between the

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Speaker 3: company and the IBT, you know, guaranteeing this was going

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Speaker 3: to happen, you know, that we would be getting those

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Speaker 3: raises on top. It was just kind of one of

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Speaker 3: those things where you know, there was this kind of

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Speaker 3: really vague language that was used and I think definitely

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Speaker 3: caused you know, people to not really fully understand, you know,

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Speaker 3: what was going on. Specially I think it was about

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Speaker 3: seventy five percent of part timers are currently have a

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Speaker 3: market rate adjustment. You know, that's kind of a very

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Speaker 3: big portion of the workforce.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a gonna be honest, it was a

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Speaker 4: real it was kind of a real calm shit show, uh,

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Speaker 4: from from union leadership releasing the information.

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Speaker 2: Uh, in the way they did.

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Speaker 4: It absolutely led to a lot of misunderstandings about what

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Speaker 4: was in the contract, which you know, kind of spread

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Speaker 4: like wildfire. And the union response to what I think

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Speaker 4: is a lot of just genuine misunderstanding is to just

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Speaker 4: label it all as misinformation from people that have, you know,

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Speaker 4: their their own agendas, right, and you can't you can't

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Speaker 4: like trust those people. You can only trust what's what's

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Speaker 4: coming from the union. And Yeah, that definitely didn't inspire

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Speaker 4: trust from the people that were leaning no, because in

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Speaker 4: between a lot of these like and there is definitely

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Speaker 4: was some misunderstanding about what was initially into the in

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Speaker 4: the contract, but there is also genuine critique about certain

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Speaker 4: things that are in the contract. Right, And so instead

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Speaker 4: of like substantly substantively like looking at these genuine critiques,

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Speaker 4: we're all forced in the situation of sorting out what

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Speaker 4: is quote unquote misinformation or you know, more accurately, people

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Speaker 4: not understanding legalese and also a bad role out of

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Speaker 4: information versus Okay, but what is in the contract that

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Speaker 4: really needs improvement? And instead of like substantially getting into

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Speaker 4: the ladder, it's just been a pure focus on the former.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, it's it's been, it's been kind of tense.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 4: It seems like, you know, it seems like there's a

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Speaker 4: real mix, it's real kind of even even uh, how

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Speaker 4: rank and vile members are responding to this contract. You know,

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Speaker 4: some have kind of bought in full sale that this

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Speaker 4: is a historic contract, and others, you know, you know,

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Speaker 4: such as myself, like, you know, there's still things in

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Speaker 4: this contract that to me are unacceptable and it's going

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Speaker 4: to be interesting to see where it goes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, I kind of feel like

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Speaker 3: it's hard to get a gauge of where everyone's at.

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Speaker 3: And of course I only have the you know, kind

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Speaker 3: of my local experience in my specific shift. You know, definitely, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I haven't I haven't come across you know, someone I

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Speaker 3: work with yet, you know who's totally just like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is superstoric, this is you know, game changing. Uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, as they were saying, or the union was saying,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people, you know, especially long timers, like yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is a really good contract with you know, the

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Speaker 3: best I've seen, uh, you know, in my days here.

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Speaker 3: And then there's you know, there's been another few other

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Speaker 3: people who are like, yeah, I'm gonna vote yes, but

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Speaker 3: it really doesn't really seem like you know, it's matching,

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Speaker 3: you know, the framing of you know, this historic contract.

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Speaker 3: And then also know this, I mean, other people who

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Speaker 3: are just kind of like, none, this seems I mean

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Speaker 3: I was kind of like too little, too late, Like

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Speaker 3: the games aren't quite there. Yeah, it's there's there's raises.

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Speaker 3: They're also kind of done in a weird way where

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Speaker 3: they're more or less like kind of front loaded towards

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Speaker 3: the first and last year, and everything in the middle

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Speaker 3: is a lot lower to the point actually where and

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Speaker 3: it gets confusing because everyone's kind of at a different

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Speaker 3: rate with those market rate adjustments. You know, the more

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Speaker 3: you're making from you know, that supplemental pay, the worse

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Speaker 3: this is going to keep with inflation to the point

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Speaker 3: where it's kind of you're only actually going to be

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Speaker 3: just above inflation towards the end of the contract, especially

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Speaker 3: one of the definitely one of the weaker things in

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Speaker 3: the contract is all new hires or current people without

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Speaker 3: seniority are going to be on a different tier. And

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Speaker 3: this is where the part timer inside warehouse positions, so

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Speaker 3: you know the Yeah, so if you have seniority, it's

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Speaker 3: minimum of twenty one an hour to start, and that

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Speaker 3: goes up to twenty five seventy five an hour, versus

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Speaker 3: those new hires or no seniority employees are going to

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Speaker 3: be out twenty one with the progression to twenty three

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Speaker 3: the fifty cent raises and of course, uh, you know,

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Speaker 3: once you know, tack on the average you know, a

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Speaker 3: little bit over three percent inflation, you know, I can

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Speaker 3: kind of quickly see, uh, it's those new members who

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Speaker 3: are getting the worst part of the deal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And that comes to I think another thing that

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Speaker 1: is like I don't know, so when this was all

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Speaker 1: first happening, and I've seen this like a lot from

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Speaker 1: people talking about this is people talking about this is

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Speaker 1: like a contract that like ends the tier systems, and

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Speaker 1: that just like doesn't seem to be true at all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And so one of the things, so there's the yeah,

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Speaker 3: I believe we spoke to this last time. The two

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Speaker 3: two four is what it's called, where it's a combo

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Speaker 3: driver and inside warehouse position and most of the time,

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Speaker 3: you know, they were just more or less practically full

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Speaker 3: time drivers, except for a few times where you know,

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Speaker 3: they much like earlier this year they tried to transition

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Speaker 3: them to mostly like inside full time. But so the

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Speaker 3: thing is, yeah, those will all get you know, converted

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Speaker 3: to the package car drivers with that, I believe, with

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Speaker 3: that raid or at least very similar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so we did get rid of the twenty two fours,

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Speaker 4: and that was the big promise, you know, going into

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Speaker 4: this contract fight. But yeah, no, there are definitely still

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Speaker 4: remaining tiers within ups. You know, there's this new one

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Speaker 4: that's been created, which is the you know, the tier

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Speaker 4: between the what they call the unborn. That's how they

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Speaker 4: refer to people that have not yet been hired by

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Speaker 4: ups that have like stipulations in the contract, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: they call them the unborn. It's it's kind of funny,

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Speaker 4: and you know, their whole thing is that they just

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Speaker 4: have a completely different wage progression than the rest of

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Speaker 4: us do. But in addition to that tier which was introduced,

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Speaker 4: you know, there are tiers elsewhere. Sometimes it's a tier

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Speaker 4: between the hubs, like all of the hubs are making

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Speaker 4: different MRAs and stuff like that. But additionally, there are

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Speaker 4: some hubs that don't have a daily guarantee of hours

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Speaker 4: like regular hubs do, like for instance, air hubs. Right,

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Speaker 4: So like that's another basically another tier, because it's you know,

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Speaker 4: people doing the same work but not guaranteed the same things.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, yeah, so there's definitely tiers remaining in this

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Speaker 4: contract for sure, and it's really unfortunate to see that

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Speaker 4: the one existing didn't get addressed and that they just

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Speaker 4: created a whole new one, even though they are adamantly

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Speaker 4: insisting it is not here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's you know, this goes back to I believe

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Speaker 3: the nineteen eighty two contract, which is when the full

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Speaker 3: time and part time pay was changed to different different tiers,

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Speaker 3: with part time getting like four dollars less than full

190
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Speaker 3: time which was I think twelve twelve an hour back

191
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Speaker 3: in eighty two versus eight an hour for the part timers.

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Speaker 3: You know, So that's continued, you know, across all these decades.

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Speaker 3: And so now with the current contract, provided you're getting

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Speaker 3: paid the contract minimums, yeah, you're looking at full time

195
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Speaker 3: inside warehouse their top rate going to thirty six dollars

196
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Speaker 3: an hour, I believe, and then you're gonna have part

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Speaker 3: timers who have seniority just below twenty six an hour,

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Speaker 3: and then you're gonna have those people who weren't quite

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Speaker 3: in the door yet at twenty three. And of course,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's doing more or less the you know,

201
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Speaker 3: the same work the inside. You know, you're doing your loading, unloading, sorting,

202
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Speaker 3: the other you know, various positions there. And of course

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Speaker 3: you know, one of the things I've seen, you know,

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Speaker 3: particularly online, I haven't heard this on the shop floor.

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Speaker 3: It's just like, oh, well, you know they're working more,

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Speaker 3: so of course they're going to get paid more. But

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Speaker 3: it's like, okay, well, yeah, they have more hours, so

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Speaker 3: they would get more paid, but that doesn't mean that

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Speaker 3: they should be at a higher hourly rate. Yeah. Plus

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Speaker 3: there's going to be other things too, like the pension

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Speaker 3: of CRUL and you know, vacation time where you're working more,

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Speaker 3: you're going to get more of that too. It's kind

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Speaker 3: of has its own reward. There's really no reason to have,

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Speaker 3: you know, like a ten dollars discrepancy for that type

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Speaker 3: of work performed.

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Speaker 1: Also, I was doing some quick math in the background,

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Speaker 1: and the nineteen eighty two I wagees like thirty six

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Speaker 1: dollars an hour and with inflation. Now, so that's historic.

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Speaker 1: That's fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I think it's when I think about, you know, this

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Speaker 4: union being touted as historic, I like actually think about,

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Speaker 4: like what are the actual historic wins of the labor movement?

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Speaker 4: And you know, I'm thinking about, like, you know, the

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Speaker 4: right to a five day work week. Meanwhile, this historic contract,

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Speaker 4: you know it ended six day punches, but that's that's

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Speaker 4: not a new historical thing. That was something we lost

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Speaker 4: and then regained with this contract. So it's you know,

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Speaker 4: in my mind, it's not really breaking any barriers or

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Speaker 4: like you know, blowing anyone's minds, you know, especially when

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Speaker 4: we have Sean Faye of the UAWD who is talking about,

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Speaker 4: you know, one of their demands is a thirty two

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Speaker 4: hour work week, right like he's he's advocating that every

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Speaker 4: worker needs a forty percent an increase in pay because

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Speaker 4: the CEO got a forty percent increase in pay.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, are our contract just you know, it isn't at

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Speaker 4: that level by any means.

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Speaker 3: When you said we're historic, you know, like I think

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Speaker 3: there could be times where you can, you know, call

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Speaker 3: something historic before it stands the test of time. But

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Speaker 3: this is kind of like, Okay, this is kind of

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Speaker 3: I feel like the contract, you know, you would expect

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Speaker 3: a union to bargain. Maybe it's I mean partly it's

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Speaker 3: historic because it just really hasn't been really any gains

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Speaker 3: and so it's kind of like, Okay, you got us

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Speaker 3: wage increases, isn't that kind of just like what you

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Speaker 3: should be doing? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I mean this is this has been

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Speaker 1: there's been like this has been like the there's been

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Speaker 1: a bunch of unions in the last like maybe like

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Speaker 1: eight months who have like settled and been like we've

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Speaker 1: gotten historic races, And it's like, I don't know, it's

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Speaker 1: the thing that seems actually historic about it is essentially

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Speaker 1: averting like averting this massive strike wave.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. One of the things I wanted to add was,

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Speaker 3: you know, especially with those combo positions, you know, ending

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Speaker 3: that tier. That was something that was introduced in the

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Speaker 3: previous contract, which rank and file members voted down. It

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Speaker 3: was a no vote, but it was just because of

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Speaker 3: this uh, you know, kind of obscure you know rule

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Speaker 3: in the constitution where it's just like, oh, fifty percent

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Speaker 3: of people don't vote, then it required the two thirds

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Speaker 3: you know, no vote. So you know that was just

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Speaker 3: completely you know, over overruled by the union, like we're

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Speaker 3: going to do this anyways, So kind of you know,

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Speaker 3: it's good that we righted that wrong. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: good to reduce a tier. Of course, I'm not gonna

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Speaker 3: knock that, but just kind of those things where it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but membership already didn't want that, or at least.

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Speaker 1: You guys did this. Yeah, you guys did you guys

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Speaker 1: introduced this in the first place, like come on, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It's also worth noting that the twenty two to four position,

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Speaker 4: you know, it wasn't working for our members, but it

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Speaker 4: also wasn't working for the company either. They were having

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Speaker 4: significant trouble trying to fill all the shifts that we

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Speaker 4: were needed and required by the position, and to the

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Speaker 4: point that workers ended up kind of being slotted into

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Speaker 4: one or the other with like really bad schedules, and

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Speaker 4: it wasn't it wasn't working for either, is the thing.

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Speaker 4: So it is it's great that we got rid of it,

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Speaker 4: but it seems like it was somewhat of an easy

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Speaker 4: thing to win. It made mutual sense, right, and yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's just there were you know, there were bigger there

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Speaker 4: could have been bigger fights over other things in this

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Speaker 4: contract that weren't pursued, right, So.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's that's the thing. From everything that

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Speaker 1: I've seen from me, it seems like it seems like

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Speaker 1: the goal of this contract is to get a contract

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Speaker 1: that's like exactly good enough to get like fifty one

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Speaker 1: percent of the vote in a contract to avoid UPS

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Speaker 1: having to like actually deal with a contract that a

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Speaker 1: strip would produce.

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Speaker 2: Mm hm oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of the I mean whether I mean probably

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Speaker 3: intentional where it's just like you know, it's like just

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Speaker 3: good enough, you know, to maybe warrant like a yes vote,

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Speaker 3: and especially i mean in contact of you know, the

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Speaker 3: last however many contracts. But it's kind of one of

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Speaker 3: those things where it's like, okay, by comparison, it's good,

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Speaker 3: but again, you know, I don't think it quite goes

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Speaker 3: far enough either on the wage side, you know, on

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Speaker 3: the on the wages or you know, especially one of

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Speaker 3: the issues I've been focused on a lot. Is the

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Speaker 3: heat protections.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, can we can we talk about well, specifically the

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Speaker 1: heat protections, but then also kind of talk a bit

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Speaker 1: about what's what is in the contract and what like

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Speaker 1: isn't in the contract that should be. Oh yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can start with the heat production stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So one of the things. So they'll be rolling

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Speaker 3: out air conditioners in the uh All trucks package cars purchase,

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Speaker 3: I believe after August of the next year, and they'll

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Speaker 3: be kind of distributing them by zones and current ones

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Speaker 3: will be retrofitted with my heat shields and events. I'm

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Speaker 3: not quite sure how effective that'll be. One of the

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Speaker 3: things for the inside people, you know it's there. You know,

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Speaker 3: they'll be installing you know, tens of thousands of more fans,

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Speaker 3: which you know, I'm not gonna lie that that will

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Speaker 3: feel really nice because those trailers just get so hot

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Speaker 3: and stuffy. There's no airflow, especially like if it's been

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Speaker 3: sitting for a while, you open the door, it's just

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Speaker 3: like a last of heat. But the problem with fans

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Speaker 3: is they're only so effective, particularly once it reaches ninety

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Speaker 3: five degrees. They don't do anything, and so you know

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of places where it'll probably feel nice

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Speaker 3: and it might help to some degree, but you know,

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Speaker 3: especially like right now in you know, like the Southwest

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Speaker 3: and the south where you've just had these you know,

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Speaker 3: one hundred and ten plus degree days, you know, like

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Speaker 3: over a month, like that's not going to do really

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Speaker 3: do much, especially if you're anywhere, depending on if you've

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Speaker 3: got dry heat or you know, higher humidity in the

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Speaker 3: latter fans can and sometimes make it worse. I'm also

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Speaker 3: worried it's going to kind of be like this kind

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Speaker 3: of like a comparison to a like security theater, but

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Speaker 3: like more like safety theater, where it's this appearance of

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Speaker 3: doing something to say like, look, we're doing this thing.

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Speaker 3: It's going to keep you safe. But whether that's you know,

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Speaker 3: actually true or not, well, I mean, we'll kind of

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Speaker 3: find out. But definitely I'm pretty worried about, you know,

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Speaker 3: what's going to happen, especially in the next five years.

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Speaker 3: We already have and I think it was the it

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Speaker 3: was it, it was the World Meteorological Organization, you know,

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Speaker 3: now has a their researchers have like a ninety eight

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Speaker 3: percent certainty that we're going to reach a high mark

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Speaker 3: for global warming before twenty twenty seven, so you know,

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Speaker 3: and I'm pretty sure last July was already the the

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Speaker 3: hottest month on record globally, and it's something to read.

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Speaker 3: There's in I think in that report of like a

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Speaker 3: sixty six percent chance of passing that album one point

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Speaker 3: five degrees celsius warming global warming between now in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty seven. So it's kind of one of those things where,

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Speaker 3: you know, I don't think we necessarily have five years

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Speaker 3: to wait to you know, address this contract language and

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Speaker 3: add further protections. Especially we've got other unions like the

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Speaker 3: International Longshorn Warehouse Union. They had an article that's talking

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Speaker 3: about their heat protections, which have things like stewards that

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Speaker 3: are equipped with heat monitoring equipment versus the current contract

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Speaker 3: language for us would be they can just use like

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Speaker 3: the OSHA app or you know, like weather service to

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Speaker 3: check you know, like a weather station versus like the

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Speaker 3: actual specific conditions you're working in. Yeah. Yeah, that seems

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Speaker 3: like there'd.

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Speaker 1: Be a huge it seems like there's a huge discrepancy

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Speaker 1: there because like the indoor temperatures and temperatures in these

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Speaker 1: trailers are way hotter than like the reported conditions.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it can be like five to ten degrees hotter.

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Speaker 3: At least I bought a little thermometer and hydrometer, hygrometer

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Speaker 3: something like that, whatever measures humidity, because that's kind of

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Speaker 3: how because there are states with heat protections, there's like

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Speaker 3: seven of them. A lot of times they're using the

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Speaker 3: heat index when you're factoring in the temperature and humidity

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Speaker 3: to get the feelds like temperature and yeah, with the

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Speaker 3: il WU, you know, they're also getting rest breaks as

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Speaker 3: part of their contract language, which I believe two or

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Speaker 3: three states have those of the seven total that actually

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Speaker 3: have heat protections. And you know, the ile WU is

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Speaker 3: kind of talking about even though they have heat protections

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Speaker 3: that kind of match or even kind of exceed partly

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Speaker 3: what some of the states have. You know, they're kind

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Speaker 3: of saying, this isn't enough for the current extreme heat

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Speaker 3: we're facing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and you know, talked about us on

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Speaker 1: the show before. But like whatever heat protections get negotiated

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Speaker 1: in a contract, like the company is going to basically

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Speaker 1: the instant negotiations are over, is going to figure out

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Speaker 1: what the well a, what the cheapest possible way to

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Speaker 1: do this is with the shittiest equipment and then be

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Speaker 1: like try to They're going to immediately try to figure

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Speaker 1: out like how you know, like how how to actually

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Speaker 1: subvert it. And you know, this is this is the

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Speaker 1: thing we've seen all over the world, even in places

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Speaker 1: that have sort of national heat protection laws, is that

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Speaker 1: you know, even even if you have a law, or

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Speaker 1: even if you have a thing in a contract, even

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Speaker 1: if you have something in your contract, it doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: mean it's going to be enforced. And that requires a

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Speaker 1: you know, it requires like a pretty significant degree of

401
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Speaker 1: organization to make sure it stays enforced. And that's you

402
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Speaker 1: know that that's true both of stuff that's in contract

403
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Speaker 1: and stuff that's like legally required, and so like if

404
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Speaker 1: if if, if, if the thing that they're nominally required

405
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Speaker 1: to do is still insufficient, it's going to end up

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Speaker 1: being way worse than that on the ground.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're seeing that with art i mean, existing heat

408
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Speaker 3: protections at the state level, where they're you know, falling short,

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Speaker 3: and especially you know there's either you know, there's kind

410
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Speaker 3: of loopholes or even just kind of like murky language

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Speaker 3: that makes it really hard to enforce. In some cases.

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Speaker 1: Do not have a good transition, but it's hot. Yeah,

413
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Speaker 1: here here are some ads that are i don't know,

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Speaker 1: hopefully not making the climate worse. And we're back. So

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Speaker 1: outside of the sort of of the experience around heat,

416
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Speaker 1: what else has been going? Like, what else is in

417
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Speaker 1: the contract that there's been sort of dispute over.

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Speaker 4: So if you look online, and this is an instance

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Speaker 4: of not really quite understanding what's in the contract. But

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Speaker 4: if you go online, a lot of people think that

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Speaker 4: there are pension freezes in the contract. And once again,

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Speaker 4: I think we can contribute this misunderstanding to a calm

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Speaker 4: strategy failure as well as a lack of open bargaining.

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Speaker 4: The con the dot COM's the pension contribution rate has decreased,

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Speaker 4: but money is still going in to the pension fund,

426
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Speaker 4: not as much as it was, is my understanding. The

427
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Speaker 4: way the union broke it down for me was like,

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Speaker 4: there's a dollar and twenty five cents of that dollar

429
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Speaker 4: is going to healthcare, twenty five cents of that dollar

430
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Speaker 4: is going to the pension, and then fifty cents of

431
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 4: it is going to wages. And I'm gonna be honest

432
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 4: with you, I don't super understand all this money stuff either,

433
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 4: but we yeah, they showed us a thing where like

434
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 4: the contra visions are going to keep happening, other things

435
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 4: that have been in the kind of in the like

436
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 4: what we've all what people have been thinking about is

437
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 4: the full time jobs, which I know we talked a

438
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 4: lot about on the last one, and uh yeah, that's it.

439
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,479
Speaker 4: I think we we were using the seventy five hundred

440
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 4: for newly created jobs, but apparently the contract also specifically

441
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 4: requires them to actually fill the twenty two thousand some

442
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 4: full time jobs that exist that they just have not

443
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 4: been filling. But even with that additional twenty two thousand,

444
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,239
Speaker 4: that's still roughly thirty thousand full time jobs that is

445
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 4: for the full time work for the whole workforce of

446
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 4: three hundred and forty thousand people. And something I learned

447
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 4: is that full time drivers can bid into those positions

448
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 4: and get them because they will likely have the seniority

449
00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 4: to do so. Because that's how we determine how to

450
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 4: fill jobs. It's by seniority, you know, how long have

451
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,479
Speaker 4: you been there? And usually you know, I think that

452
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 4: makes sense, but you know, that really just contributes to

453
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 4: the to the long long wait of part timers trying

454
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 4: to get full time work.

455
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 2: Right, and.

456
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, like the thing like kind of related to that.

457
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 4: You know, we have these like if you have a

458
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 4: market rate adjustment and you get your two seventy five,

459
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 4: for me, that's going to be twenty six seventy five

460
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 4: an hour. And that looks great until you remember that

461
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 4: we are part time. It is like we are supposed

462
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 4: to work half a work week. I work less than

463
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 4: because of the hub that I am at, which is

464
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 4: not great, but you know, we need the hours and

465
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 4: there's not the there isn't enough jobs, and that's stimulated

466
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 4: by this contract.

467
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: I think that there probably could be a lot more jobs.

468
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to see something about that specifically too,

469
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: which is that like when when like you random listener

470
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: who's not working at ups, whenever you see someone like

471
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: talking about a wage number and it's for part timers,

472
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: Like if if you want to try to figure out

473
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: can this person's your vibe? You need to divide that

474
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: number by two at like at the very least divide

475
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: up by two, possibly divide it by more. Because again,

476
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: like they don't, no one, no one's like if you're

477
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: a part timer, like obviously, yeah you're not. You're not

478
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: getting the hours that you know, that that that you

479
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: that you would normally you know, if if you can't

480
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: just immediately convert that to what would the salary be

481
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 1: if you work, if you got like forty hours a

482
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: week or whatever, like you can't do that. I've seen

483
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 1: a lot I've seen this a lot, a lot, like

484
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: on the internet. I've seen pundits talking about it like this,

485
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: and it's just like a incomprehensible misunderstanding of the act

486
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: of like how how this stuff actually works for you

487
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: to be going like, oh, look at all this money

488
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: that people are making, assuming that like you know, and

489
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: then and then using calculations that are based on like

490
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: someone working full time, which is most of the workforce,

491
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: like a significant significant majority of the workforce is not

492
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: is not working full time and will not be even

493
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: after this contract.

494
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, it's yeah, it's estimated there are sixty percent

495
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 4: of the workforce is is part timers.

496
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, no, that is a that is a huge issue.

497
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 4: You know, a lot of people also, like when this

498
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 4: is brought up, a lot of people like to then say, well,

499
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 4: you know, get a second job, but our jobs aren't flexible.

500
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 4: Like first of all, fuck fuck having a second job.

501
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 4: I am kind of staunchly opposed to the entire concept.

502
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 4: But even if I wasn't, this job is not flexible

503
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 4: enough to account for a second job, not unless you

504
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 4: never want to sleep in your second job is when

505
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 4: you should be like sleeping because you know, we have

506
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 4: our start times, those are given to us a week

507
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 4: in advance, but we don't know when our end times

508
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 4: are because the end times are when we run out

509
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 4: of packages. So you know, some days, you know, like

510
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 4: in my hub, it's always just going to be the

511
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 4: two hours, but like in other hubs, you could be there,

512
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 4: you know, you could be trying to get your three

513
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 4: and a half hour daily guarantee, like employing that when

514
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 4: they're trying to send you home, or you could be

515
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 4: there six seven hours, and you know, how how how

516
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 4: is another employer supposed to operate with that? You know,

517
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 4: you call in like three times saying like, oh, I

518
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 4: can't actually leave my first job. You're not going to

519
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 4: have that second job much longer. So yeah, in addition

520
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 4: to the lack of full time jobs, the way this

521
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 4: job is makes a second one impossible. So a lot

522
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 4: of our part timers really are relying on that on

523
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 4: that part time wage to get them through and picking

524
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 4: up doubles when they can, which means you kind of

525
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 4: end up having a ten hour day because there's like

526
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,719
Speaker 4: about a two hour like space of time in between

527
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 4: the shifts. So yeah, yeah, it's uh yeah, those are

528
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 4: those are some some of the big issues.

529
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's one of my worries. You know, if

530
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 3: I've about you know, if I want to go full

531
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 3: time or not, is you know, can be at least

532
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 3: in the hub I work at, I would say usually

533
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: I'm getting like twenty four hours a week, you know,

534
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 3: if I'm going full time, but double that because now

535
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 3: I'm working two shifts. But also you know, got to

536
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 3: have that like hour or two of wait time between shifts.

537
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 3: You know, it's just a lot of time to be

538
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,959
Speaker 3: spending at work, especially on paid time at work. That

539
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 3: is that is the worst. You know, it's not quite

540
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 3: long enough stretch to like go home or at least

541
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: you know you have a decent commute to work. And

542
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 3: you know, another thing kind of came to my mind

543
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 3: a little earlier earlier was that and it sounds like

544
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 3: at least talking with new hires, that this is still continuing,

545
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 3: which is kind of this really deceptive hiring practice where

546
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 3: the hours are posted. When I got the job, you know,

547
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: it was posted as part time. For get it was

548
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 3: something like, uh, I don't know, I'm not to four,

549
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 3: but you know, had that schedule for five days a week,

550
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 3: seven hour shifts, thirty five hours a week times. By

551
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 3: the twenty six starting pay, I was like, oh, perfect,

552
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 3: I'll be making like, you know, somewhere like mid forty thousand.

553
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: That's that's livable at least for my specific you know circumstances.

554
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 3: But then of course get there and you know the yeah,

555
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 3: we get two days notice for a start time. It's

556
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 3: posted on our either you know, end of the week,

557
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 3: so don't know exactly when I'm working, you know, until

558
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 3: right before the next week, and you know, at least

559
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 3: there an orientation. Soone asked, oh, like, what's actually the

560
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 3: end time. I was just like, oh, well, when the

561
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 3: last package is loaded. Of course, if you know what

562
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 3: when the next shift starts, you can kind of get

563
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 3: a better idea of when you'll actually be out of there.

564
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 3: But still it's just kind of it's, you know, it's

565
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 3: this claim flexibility, but it's very difficult, you know, to

566
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 3: actually work a second job or even know they offer

567
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 3: tuition reimbursement, and there's a number of students who have

568
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 3: had you know, a hard time actually like you know,

569
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 3: getting the time off to attend their classes. And I

570
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 3: also second anywhere that's part time work that offers tuition reimbursement.

571
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 3: You know, I would say this an expected expectation that Okay,

572
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 3: well you're going to school and you're working part time.

573
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 3: You would think the wages then should at least you know,

574
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 3: provide enough for rent, food, gas, textbooks, all that.

575
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, to piggyback off of what Oliver just said regarding

576
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 4: you know, like this is a wage that is good

577
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 4: for you know, their situation when they were assuming it

578
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 4: was at the you know, thirty five hours a week.

579
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 2: You know.

580
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 4: Another thing to think about is a lot of these

581
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 4: part timers, you know, they have families, they have significant

582
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 4: others that they're caring for. Like, you know, a lot

583
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 4: of people look at this wage and one make the

584
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 4: faulty assumption that you talked about earlier by multiplying it

585
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 4: by forty to get the forty and then they assume

586
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 4: that's for just that one person.

587
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: And like, there are part timers of every age, right,

588
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: and they all have their.

589
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 4: Own their own families and stuff like that that they

590
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 4: are expected to care for as well. So like when

591
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 4: you look at all of this and the you know,

592
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 4: the rate of inflation and the way the economy is,

593
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 4: and you take all of these things into account, like

594
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 4: the gains that are provided for in this contract is

595
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 4: not enough when you consider the whole of everyone.

596
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 2: Who works at UPS.

597
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 4: You know, it's leaving behind families, right, Like yeah, it's

598
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 4: it's wild.

599
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think another thing that isn't talked about

600
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: that much in terms of this is like the actual

601
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 1: physical effect on your body of doing this kind of work,

602
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: because this is like I don't know, this kind of

603
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: work is intense enough that I mean there's there's there's

604
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: very rare risk of injury, and there's also I mean

605
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 1: just like you know, over the course of time, doing

606
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: this kind of shit is going to like fuck up

607
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: your body, and you know, like part part of the

608
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: sort of bargain of like like part part of the

609
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: bargain of this work is that you're getting you know,

610
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 1: it's it's in some ways, like it's in some ways

611
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: like you could think about it like if you're a

612
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: middle of a football player, like you're gonna get your

613
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: fucking brain destroyed by just repeated head trauma, right, and

614
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: you know, so, so there's only a limited amount of

615
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: time your body can physically handle this. And it's like, yeah, okay,

616
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: it looks like you're getting a lot of money in

617
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: a very short amount of time, but you have to,

618
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: you know, you have to live with the sort of

619
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: physical consequences of what happened of what happened to you

620
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: on that job getting the money. So that money also

621
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,439
Speaker 1: like not just doesn't just have to get you through

622
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 1: like now, right, like it also it has to also

623
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 1: essentially be compensation to the physical damage that you're doing

624
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: to your body by doing this shit. And you know,

625
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: I think I think it. I think like these ways

626
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: look even worse when you look at like, you know,

627
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: when you when you think of it in terms of

628
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 1: you know, in in in like in like not even

629
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 1: not just in terms of immediate rent, but like in

630
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: in the really long term of having to you know,

631
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: live with the sort of physical damage that you take

632
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: from doing this stuff.

633
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's fine. I just had a coworker talking

634
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 3: about that today actually, And because that's I mean, there

635
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 3: are a lot of like college age kids you know,

636
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 3: the early twenties. They at least from you know, my

637
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: experience of notes kind of usually they're kind of like

638
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 3: the quick turnover. I feel like a lot of people

639
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 3: are staying more like their you know, thirties forties. You know,

640
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 3: we have people older older than that too. On my line,

641
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 3: I think part of that's just like kind of we

642
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 3: understand the importance of i mean a gold tier uh

643
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 3: health insurance plant and a pension. But you know, of

644
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 3: course with uh, you know, being older, Uh, it's gonna

645
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 3: you know, have even more of an effect on the body.

646
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 3: And yeah, I know I've heard people talking about this

647
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 3: where it's just like, oh, well, it's just part time

648
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 3: or it's you know, entry level you know, quote unquote,

649
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 3: Uh you don't need a degree for this, Like why

650
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 3: do you think you should be paid more? And it's like, well,

651
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 3: it's it's brutal. I mean, we get a ten minute break,

652
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 3: we're working up to six hours. That is it Why

653
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 3: they don't have to do a lunch break. I don't know.

654
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 3: It seems like ups just always gets there their way,

655
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 3: and uh that's you know, like state, local, bederal law

656
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 3: that they don't care. Yeah, even this last contract and

657
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 3: there's so many violations. Of course, you know, we got

658
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 3: to whether you know this is yes or no, whatever

659
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 3: the next contract is. You know, that's going to be

660
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 3: a big part of the fight, is just holding them

661
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 3: accountable and to the terms.

662
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Like I you know, I've had coworkers

663
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 4: out on you know, workers comp for like you know,

664
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 4: doing physical therapy for the injuries that they got on

665
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 4: the job for like months at a time. Right, these like,

666
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,439
Speaker 4: you know, we're sitting around loading boxes all day. And

667
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 4: some of them are very light, but some of them

668
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,240
Speaker 4: are really fucking heavy.

669
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 2: Some of them are really awkward to hold. They're weirdly shaped.

670
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 4: Like there are some boxes where, like they tell you

671
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 4: about ups, tells you about methods, the eight keys of

672
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 4: lifting and lowering that you know should make it safe,

673
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 4: but like there are some boxes where it's impossible to

674
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 4: follow those those methods the absolute bane of my existence,

675
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 4: and I recognize them every time I see them. I

676
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 4: swear to God, these things must be just filled with lead,

677
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 4: because you look at them and it's a very small box.

678
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 2: You know, it's not more than like.

679
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 4: Probably twelve inches long, you know, know, like no, not

680
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 4: even twelve inches, probably more like seven inches long, you know,

681
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 4: like six seven inches wide and then like two and

682
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 4: a half inches you know deep, And that should be

683
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 4: a very easy box, but it's like filled with lead

684
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 4: and for whatever reason, it can weigh like thirty five

685
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 4: to fifty pounds Jesus, And it's like one that box

686
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 4: is too small to like have a team lift on

687
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 4: because you can't have two people around something like that.

688
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 4: And like, you know, when you pick up a box,

689
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 4: you're supposed to keep the natural curve of your back,

690
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 4: but do not over extend the curve. And you have

691
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 4: to for those like packages like that, right, Like there's

692
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 4: not a way to position yourself to lift them safely,

693
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 4: and you kind of have to a little bit jerk up,

694
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 4: which they tell you not to do, but that's the

695
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 4: only way to get leverage on it. And yeah, like

696
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 4: and you know, I've been in trailers where like a

697
00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 4: box like that was loaded precariously, like just slightly my head,

698
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 4: and one time it came crashing down and I like

699
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 4: neoed out of the way, like I was like in

700
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 4: the fucking matrix, and I was just like, oh, if

701
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 4: I had just been a little bit less responsive, that

702
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 4: could have been a very serious head injury for me,

703
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 4: and so yeah, the risk of like very severe injury. Like,

704
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 4: you know, I busted my face open on a grate

705
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 4: outside of where the what we call the cans, which

706
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 4: are like the things that have all the packages. They

707
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 4: bring them to the bay doors. I was unloading and

708
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 4: I had to go between them, and I like.

709
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 2: There was motor oil spilled.

710
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 4: I tripped and I like smashed my open my face

711
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 4: open on a fucking grate and had to get stitches.

712
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 4: Like it's yeah, no, the safety involved with this job

713
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 4: is not extremely guaranteed, and yeah, the risk of injury

714
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 4: is high and we should be preemptively compensated for that.

715
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like and even somehow if you managed to

716
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 3: go like your whole career without a single injury, you know,

717
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 3: there's well at least like more the kind of like

718
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 3: accidental injury because it's still it's a lot of repetitive

719
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 3: motion and you're gonna, I mean, eventually it's gonna take

720
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 3: its tall.

721
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: Right, we're doing, We're doing, We're doing some more ads.

722
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah by things.

723
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: All right, we are back. So I guess I know.

724
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: Another aspect of this that I wanted to talk about

725
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: has been the sort of broader strategy of trying to

726
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 1: avoid strikes, and this has been both sort of to

727
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: some extent run by union, to some extent like imposed

728
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: from the top down. One of the things I wanted

729
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: to talk about, Yeah, I think a sort of kind

730
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 1: of underdiscussed aspect of what's been happening in the last

731
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: sort of year or so has been Biden's willingness to

732
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: get involved in strikes. Earlier, you know, Obama eventually got

733
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: involved in a couple of strikes during his tenure, but

734
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: he tended to not get involved until like a strike

735
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: had been going on for like nine months or whatever.

736
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 1: And Biden's been taking like a very very proactive approach

737
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: to sort of I don't know, strike mitigation, I guess

738
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: is the sort of like sanitized term you taker to there,

739
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: like keeping labor piece. But he seems to have a

740
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: sort of you know, he's to be getting very very involved,

741
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: very quickly in trying to make sure that strikes don't happen.

742
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: And you know the consequence of this is that we

743
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: didn't get the rail strike that we should have gotten,

744
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: and there's there's been a few other strikes that has

745
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: sort of been averted, and I wanted to ask, I

746
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: guess how you're thinking about this strike, not just sort

747
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: of in terms of like the immediate benefits, but in

748
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: terms terms of what it would actually mean if like

749
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: another major strike sort of get shut down before we

750
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 1: can get going in a year that is, I mean

751
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: still even if the strike doesn't happen, a pretty sort

752
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: of full year in labor terms.

753
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well one, I guess I got to say

754
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 4: thank you to the most pro labor president.

755
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 2: Of our life. Yeah. No, he Yeah, you're absolutely right.

756
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 4: He does seem to be getting involved early and mitigating them.

757
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 4: If I was, if I had to speculate, I you know,

758
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 4: he's very concerned about this whole economy thing that we

759
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 4: keep talking about, right, and he doesn't want to see

760
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 4: any big shocks to the economy. And you know that's

761
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 4: something where I guess I disagree. I think, you know,

762
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 4: I think a shock to the economy that is brought

763
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 4: about by workers going on strike is a reminds them

764
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 4: of what they have and what they move and what

765
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 4: they create, right, And I think, yeah, the ruling class,

766
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 4: you know, our politicians and the capitalists who own our politicians,

767
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 4: they they don't want us to experience that, you know,

768
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 4: like I remember even during the you know, the Trump administration,

769
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 4: when you know, it was when during the government shutdown

770
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 4: and Sarah Nelson got all the flight attendants to do

771
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 4: a sick out and stuff like that, and kind of

772
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 4: just like that the government shutdown had ended and they

773
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 4: all went back to do government things, whatever those government

774
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 4: things are. And you know, like people on Twitter, you know,

775
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,240
Speaker 4: they were talking about like, yeah, this is like workers

776
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 4: have power to affect not only their own work conditions,

777
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 4: but they can have broad implications on society, on the

778
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 4: political climate, on what's going on. And yeah, there was absolutely,

779
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 4: I think a contingent of centrist liberals that were like

780
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 4: really frightened by that idea. You know, they like they

781
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 4: like a society in which the right people with who

782
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 4: went to the right schools and all of that, like

783
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 4: where they are the ones that are in charge, and

784
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 4: they are the ones that are shaping history with the

785
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 4: pen strokes on like you know, whatever bills they're legislating,

786
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 4: And yeah, I think they have a vested interest in

787
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 4: making sure that workers don't get to experience that sense

788
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 4: of autonomy that they can experience by going on strike

789
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,760
Speaker 4: and by seeing you know, exactly what kind of power

790
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 4: they have and what it does, because they don't want it.

791
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 4: They don't want it to get beyond what's going on

792
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 4: in the workplace.

793
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 2: They barely want it there, you know.

794
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 4: Like so, yeah, yeah, I think there is a vested interest,

795
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 4: And yeah, I have not I've been able to see

796
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 4: it confirmed, but I have seen in articles where they

797
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 4: will say that, you know, Sean O'Brien had met with

798
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 4: President Biden, but then there isn't a link click through,

799
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 4: so I can't figure out what the initial thing is.

800
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 4: But I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised, Like, and it's

801
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 4: it's a it's a damn shame. It's you know, it's

802
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 4: a shame that the president of our local union, you know,

803
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 4: should that have happened to come to it?

804
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:28,959
Speaker 3: Right.

805
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing where it's like it's been really

806
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: hard to get reliable information. And it's also possible they

807
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: were sort of behind the scenes talks that we just

808
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 1: don't know about. But you know, the place we know

809
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 1: this happened is we know this happened between the rail strikes.

810
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: There was a lot of pressure from rail unions to

811
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: like like on on their rank and file to like

812
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: get to just like sign on to some kind of agreement.

813
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: And I think I think this is something that you know,

814
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,919
Speaker 1: in terms of sort of political repression, like it's something

815
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 1: that's not understood in the same way, but like that

816
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: is also still like that, like that that like negotiating

817
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, are putting pressure on and then you know,

818
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 1: eventually Biden does just actively like mandate that the strike

819
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,439
Speaker 1: can't happen, right Like that is like that I will

820
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: argue that that is in fact a full of strike breaking.

821
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: M M agree.

822
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: And I think I think people are tend to be

823
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 1: less but but you know, specifically, the ability to sort

824
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: of cut deals with unions, like this is something that

825
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: the Republicans have like aren't like really good at. Like

826
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: it's not it's not an ability that they really have.

827
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: It's it's something that like is largely limited to the Democrats.

828
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: And but you know, but this this means that they

829
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: have sort of they have a unique capacity to repress

830
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: social movements that isn't as obvious as sort of like

831
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: you know, just like a bunch of strike breakers showing

832
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 1: up or the cop showing up. But is there all

833
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: the same And I think is in some ways more

834
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: dangerous because you know, like you get these arguments with

835
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 1: like with the rail strike, where like technically eventually Biden

836
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: was able to get some kind of deal through for

837
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,800
Speaker 1: some sick time, right, but you know, and you have

838
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: this sort of like liberal conception of what labor is

839
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: where they're like, oh, well, everyone was wrong to like

840
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: be mad at Biden for this, like they got the

841
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: thing eventually. But you know, the problem here isn't it

842
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: isn't just you know, strikes aren't just about the immediate

843
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: thing that you're fighting for, right, like, they're they're also

844
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: about like moving the class as a whole. They're about

845
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 1: the experience of striking. They're about and then you know,

846
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: and they're also about the fact that you will get

847
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: a better deal if you win a strike. Then you

848
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: will if you get like, you know, if if you

849
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: get one of these sort of like negotiated deals like

850
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 1: cut in the back room by Biden and like seventeen

851
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: unions in the Manufacturer's Association. And so I think, I

852
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: think I think it's important to understand that, you know,

853
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: the like there is a fundamental sort of difference between

854
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: like liberalism sort of conception of you know, you you

855
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: achieve material gains, and it doesn't really matter what the

856
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: process is, right, or you know, the process is like

857
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 1: you go through the legislative domain. There's an actual difference

858
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: between that and the things that happens DRAE to strike,

859
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: which is, you know, there's there's an actual process of

860
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 1: like the building of power of workers and you know,

861
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: building the autonomy of the class itself. And I don't know,

862
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: I think I think those are very different. And I

863
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 1: think I think a lot of what we've been seeing

864
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: here is an attempt both by unions themselves, by and

865
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 1: you know, by by business leaders, and also by like

866
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: the president and the Democratic Party to try to make

867
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: sure that this doesn't happen and that they can sort

868
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: of contain this really explosive labor moments and prevent it

869
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: from sort of turning into more.

870
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's very true. I think that you know,

871
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 4: the unions, you know, have long been divorced from their

872
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 4: original roots. Is like, you know, this was a communist,

873
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 4: socialist This sprung out of communism, socialism, anarchism. It was

874
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 4: about workers banding together to not only collectively bargained just

875
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 4: for the workplaces, but for society wide issues, right, unions

876
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 4: used to be explicitly political, and I you know, as

877
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 4: we've like seen this rise in political conscience, you know,

878
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 4: over like this last decade. The ruling class and you know,

879
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 4: the entrenched union bureaucrats that have long been you know,

880
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 4: divorced from those origins, I think, have a very vested

881
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 4: interest and you know, not having labor go back to

882
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 4: those roots to and stuff like that, you know, it

883
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 4: threatens it obviously, the working or the ruling class power,

884
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 4: excuse me, And you know it threatens your union bureaucrat

885
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 4: jobs when workers start like demanding more from like what

886
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 4: the labor movement can provide for them.

887
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 3: Right.

888
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 4: So I think that's all, that's all very true, And

889
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 4: it's just that this is another avenue where collective change

890
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 4: is possible, and the state and capital will always clamp

891
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 4: down on any avenue where change can be achieved through

892
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:33,359
Speaker 4: those means. So I think that's really really what we're

893
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 4: seeing here.

894
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't know, I mean, I think I

895
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: think another thing that's worth pointing out is that like

896
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: part of the reason that like part of the reason

897
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: that you know, if you if you go back to

898
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: sort of like when when the error of the sort

899
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: of decline of unionism happened, right, Like, part of the

900
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: reason why the Reagan era repression worked was that a

901
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: lot of these unions had already sort of hollowed out

902
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: the radical core of like what had been their union organizers.

903
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 1: They had purged, you know, like the CIO, I mean

904
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: even back as there's always like the forties, like the

905
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: CIO purged like all of its leftist members, and you know,

906
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 1: you got these successive like these these successive sort of

907
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: iterations of unionism that were less and less militant, and

908
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: you know, like you can you can you can literally

909
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: see what the result of that has been, right, like

910
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: union density down to like six percent. And so you know,

911
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 1: if if if if, if it keeps going like this

912
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,760
Speaker 1: and we keep getting these sort of like sustained efforts

913
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: to make sure that it never redevelops again, Like yeah,

914
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,959
Speaker 1: like it's we're gonna we're gonna be stuck there.

915
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean it's just yeah, I mean, specific

916
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 3: to those ups contracts. Can absolutely see that, you know,

917
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 3: by looking at the wage growth you know, through the

918
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 3: last forty years, or maybe the lack thereof more of

919
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 3: the stagnating wages just you know, between either you know,

920
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 3: Union of fish are you know, even in the you know,

921
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 3: Biden coming in. I think it's like, you know, more

922
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 3: or less like these people who aren't going you know,

923
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 3: who didn't enter the economy, uh, you know within the

924
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 3: last you know decade or two. You know, I don't

925
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 3: know at all really what what our experiences are. Uh

926
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 3: you know what kind of challenges and struggles and burdens

927
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 3: were facing. And I mean especially and not prepared at

928
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 3: all for you know, this world with a drastically changing climate.

929
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

930
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then like you know, also to go back

931
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 4: to like you know, the decline of you know, how

932
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 4: unions have operated you know, over these last like for

933
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 4: for some decades.

934
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:46,879
Speaker 2: Right.

935
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 4: I think this is something I talked about a lot,

936
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 4: and I talked about it, I think on the last podcast.

937
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 4: But you know, once the the organized left was kind

938
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 4: of purged out of all of these unions, you know,

939
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,240
Speaker 4: unions kind of became about a service mall.

940
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 2: And you know that's when the union.

941
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 4: Leadership, you know does you know, like you on the

942
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 4: floor are enforcing your contract, You're bringing your grievances to

943
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 4: the union, and the union is getting something done about them.

944
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:13,439
Speaker 1: Right.

945
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 2: And I think you.

946
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 4: Know, that model in and of itself is indicative of

947
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 4: a decline of a collective action, right, that reduces the

948
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 4: union to Yeah, that's the entity you're going you go

949
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 4: to when there is an issue in the enforcement of

950
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 4: your contract and they negotiate a new contract for you,

951
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 4: and you know, that's that's the service model type, right,

952
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 4: And that's like what we're seeing a lot of. That's

953
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 4: what like, you know, a lot of the business unions

954
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 4: do and stuff like that. Some of them do it

955
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 4: better than others, you know. But then there's also the

956
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 4: organizing model, where you use the union as it means

957
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 4: to make your members militant, and they do contract enforcement

958
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 4: on the floor and they like you know, organ i

959
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 4: protests at their work site, and they like you know,

960
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 4: they get involved in you know, issues outside of the

961
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 4: work site, right, And I think, yeah, like watching the

962
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 4: service model kind of prevail over these last you know,

963
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,399
Speaker 4: some decades over the organizing model is just yeah, it's

964
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 4: absolutely just another sign of collective action being stamped down

965
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 4: wherever it can be.

966
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 1: You know, there's this an interesting thing with the there's

967
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: an interesting thing with the service model that I see

968
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: a lot where it's like, you know, when when when

969
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: when you're getting like sort of union inoculation, uh like stuff, right,

970
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: they'll be like, ah, like the management is going to

971
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:41,479
Speaker 1: tell you that like the union is an outside force

972
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 1: and it's not. The union is actually you. And it's

973
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: like this is true. But also like, damn, I wonder

974
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: where the idea that the union is an outside force

975
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: it is not actually you came from. Like it couldn't

976
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's like it could it couldn't possibly

977
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: have anything to do with the way you run your union,

978
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 1: Like yeah.

979
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, Yeah.

980
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 3: I think we were talking about that last time, like

981
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 3: the kind of like the lack of onboarding engagement by

982
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 3: the union. Yeah, I mean especially you know, I mean yeah,

983
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 3: I mean I know this. I mean other union members too,

984
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 3: where like does kind of feel like they're like, oh,

985
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 3: I don't have all these benefits or higher pay or

986
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 3: or you know, we're thinking about striking, but we don't

987
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 3: even have a strike bund. You know, we don't know

988
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 3: how exactly well weather the storm. I mean that's something

989
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,879
Speaker 3: I hear you know, a lot on the shop floor.

990
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 3: It's like when talking about you know, our union, you know,

991
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 3: it's it's always the union, I know, I say that

992
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 3: a ton too, But I mean I kind of feel

993
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 3: like the language we just use like day to day

994
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 3: talking about it, you know, I kind of there's not

995
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 3: like inherent separation when it's like, oh, it's the union,

996
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 3: it's the some you know, it's this outside thing. It's

997
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 3: not oh, it's a collection of all you know, rank

998
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 3: and filement, whereas it's us.

999
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it doesn't. But the thing is, yeah, it

1000
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:09,720
Speaker 1: doesn't become that unless you have a really high level

1001
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: of participation and then also like a systemic effort to

1002
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: make sure that to make sure everyone is involved and

1003
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 1: to make sure that you know, the the union functions

1004
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 1: in such a way that even that that like you

1005
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: know that that decisions of membership action matters. And I

1006
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: don't know, I think I think I think it's really

1007
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: I think it's really easy to you know, in this

1008
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: moment where unions are incredibly like you know, with the

1009
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: totally the actual amount of like unions in the US

1010
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 1: is really small, and also simultaneously, like you know, we're

1011
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: seeing a sort of reservience of union organizing. I think

1012
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: it's really really easy to sort of fall into this

1013
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: trap and like be be completely uncritical of the way

1014
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 1: that unions have functions. Because again, like if the current

1015
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: model of unions that exists right now, like if that

1016
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: stuff worked, like we wouldn't be in in in the

1017
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 1: sort of conditions that we're in now. And that calls

1018
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: for you know, like that that that calls for collective action,

1019
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 1: and you know one of the things that calls for

1020
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 1: is being willing to go on strike.

1021
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah.

1022
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: Do you two have anything else that you wanted to add?

1023
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, because like something that you know, when I

1024
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 4: think about, like, you know, how do we get back

1025
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 4: to like this sort of you know where a union is,

1026
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 4: you know, we are the union. A union is a

1027
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 4: like is a collective of workers advocating for their rights.

1028
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 4: Right they are banding together, you know, they're negotiating together.

1029
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 4: And when I think about you know, the Teamsters, you know,

1030
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 4: and how they operate right now. And you know, we

1031
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 4: just had that big reform slate when where Seawn O'Brien

1032
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 4: won and then you know, delivered us this contract. And

1033
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:06,919
Speaker 4: you know, Shaun O'Brien did do like they they did

1034
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 4: in TDU did do other good things. They got rid

1035
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 4: of that constitutional rule that Oliver mentioned earlier. But I

1036
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 4: think you know, when we talk about like bringing down

1037
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 4: that barrier between the union and the members, the next

1038
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 4: most obvious step for me is that we need to

1039
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 4: get to open bargaining in this union. And frankly, I

1040
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 4: think open bargaining, or the fact that this bargaining was closed,

1041
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 4: you know, is behind it's behind closed doors. You know,

1042
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 4: there were NDAs signed, there were rank and file members there,

1043
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 4: but they also couldn't tell us about it because of

1044
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 4: those you know, NDAs. Open bargaining is what's going to

1045
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 4: solve this, because this, like the whole fiasco about this

1046
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 4: tentative agreement and now all the kind of resulting hostility

1047
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 4: that is felt between members and leadership and members and

1048
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 4: even other members.

1049
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 2: I think it's you know, like.

1050
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 4: So much of this is due to a failure of

1051
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 4: comms and the fact that we did not know what

1052
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 4: was being discussed in these negotiations at any time, except

1053
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 4: for the vague highlights that they could tell us about, right,

1054
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 4: and then you know, they release a highlight reel that

1055
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 4: has very confusing language. They eventually do release the contract,

1056
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 4: but not all of the memorandums of understanding that would

1057
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 4: help us understand what is actually in that contract. And

1058
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 4: you know, they're releasing all of this information in a

1059
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 4: way that is going to result in people not understanding

1060
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 4: what's in it. And I really do think open bargaining

1061
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 4: is the next step that you know, reformers in this

1062
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 4: union need to be advocating and organizing for.

1063
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 2: Because that this has just kind of.

1064
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 4: Been a real ship show, to be honest, and I yeah,

1065
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 4: I think it's a comms failure to be perfectly honest.

1066
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, and I would I would absolutely agree

1067
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 3: with that, you know, and I know like there was

1068
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 3: there was a IBT webinar with Sean O'Brien, and you

1069
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 3: know he even spoke to misinformation, but didn't you know,

1070
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 3: elaborate on what it was or you know, how or

1071
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 3: why it's wrong. It's just like, hey, you've got our emails, addresses,

1072
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 3: phone numbers. We're here on this webinar. Like you can

1073
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 3: correct the record anytime, you know. It's uh, if you're

1074
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 3: worried about something that's not true and may may or

1075
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 3: may not influence people's votes, like you can do something

1076
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 3: about that. Like you you have a lot of money,

1077
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 3: you have you know, a comms team to use it.

1078
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 3: It's you know, just talk to your members like they're

1079
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 3: real people. Uh, you know, we can we can understand shit. Uh,

1080
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 3: you don't gotta just you know, get get angry or

1081
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 3: even kind of like I was saying earlier, where it's

1082
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 3: just like it's almost just like feels like this framing

1083
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 3: where anything you know that's a dissenting view or a

1084
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 3: critique you know, so oh, it's just it's almost information.

1085
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 3: Don't don't pay any attention to it.

1086
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is you know, I don't know, like I

1087
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: I've seen this in a couple of I don't know,

1088
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 1: like just I've seen this in a couple of sort

1089
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 1: of union things we've coverled on this show. Is like,

1090
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, and and an incredible unwillingness of union

1091
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: leadership to even like consider a position is not their

1092
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 1: own and to just sort of like immediately, you know,

1093
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: when confronted with another things just immediately attempt to completely

1094
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: delegitimate them. And that sucks. Yeah, it's just not a

1095
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 1: not a great way to run a union.

1096
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 2: No, no, you definitely you know.

1097
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 4: And I've been seeing this this uh this closing like

1098
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 4: sort of rank around around leadership, right, and it's not

1099
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 4: something that inspires trust in union leadership.

1100
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 2: Whatsoever. Right, Like, you know, you could be a member

1101
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 2: that you.

1102
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 4: Know doesn't understand something, just has a question and then

1103
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 4: you kind of getting and you kind of just.

1104
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 2: End up being stonewalled.

1105
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 4: And you know, you're told, well, you know, go to

1106
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 4: this meeting where we're going to explain things and dah

1107
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 4: da da da da da da da dah. And it's like, yeah,

1108
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 4: but you know, I have you on the phone, now,

1109
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 4: can you explain it now? And you know, and it's

1110
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 4: as it's like they're taking all of these concerns as

1111
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 4: a personal blow to their ego, right Like they're taking

1112
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 4: it personally, as if people having concerns about what this

1113
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 4: contract does and does not stipulate is like an attack

1114
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 4: on their moral character. And it's just really fucking frustrating.

1115
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 4: I gotta be real with you. And you know it

1116
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 4: doesn't say a lot for the overall democratic nature of

1117
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 4: the union either, right, Like you know this is like

1118
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 4: you know, you're kind of being told, well, you know,

1119
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 4: keep your opinions to yourself, accept our word for it.

1120
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 2: Like you can vote however you want.

1121
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 4: You know, this is one number one vote, but you

1122
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 4: know you can't be going online talking about it. You

1123
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 4: like can't be going talking to your coworkers about it

1124
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 4: because you don't have all the information, you're not understanding

1125
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 4: it correctly, and it's just like, well, can you get

1126
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 4: better at explaining it?

1127
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 2: Can you not react this way?

1128
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 4: Like can we have like a thing where like we

1129
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 4: can just like fucking talk about what's in it and

1130
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 4: what's not in it? And yeah, it's it's just again

1131
01:04:58,560 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 4: been real fucking frustrating.

1132
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. It's another thing I mean too, is you know,

1133
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:06,480
Speaker 3: any contract language maybe it should either be more clear

1134
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 3: or concise, or if it's going to be more on

1135
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 3: the legal east side, you know, put out a little

1136
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 3: like contract like explainer guide maybe especially around key language

1137
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 3: or language that they know is maybe vague or going

1138
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 3: to cause you know, issues of like understanding it. And

1139
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 3: even you know, one one other thing about like you know,

1140
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 3: open bargaining was you know, looking at the ib T

1141
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 3: press release, you know there's one paragraph and it starts

1142
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 3: rank and final members served on the committee for the

1143
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 3: first time. It continues on later saying you know, our

1144
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 3: hard work has finally paid or our hard work has

1145
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 3: paid off, and you know, and goes on to them say,

1146
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 3: you know, this is the most historic contract we've ever had,

1147
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 3: so kind of seems like right there where it's like, well,

1148
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 3: if limited member participation found by NDA has led to

1149
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 3: this historic contract, maybe it's time to involve all of us.

1150
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 1: Yep.

1151
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 4: And also, you know, the rank and file that are

1152
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 4: on these committees are appointed by leadership, so we don't

1153
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,560
Speaker 4: we don't get to choose who these people are. And

1154
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 4: it's like leadership absolutely just has the ability to be like, well,

1155
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 4: I'm gonna, you know, appoint the ones that I like

1156
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 4: the most, that I have the best relationship with, that

1157
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 4: I know thinks the sun kind of shines out of

1158
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 4: my ass. And yeah, there's just this absolutely overall lack

1159
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 4: of a democratic lack of a democratic internal culture. You know,

1160
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 4: we elect you know, our officers, most of them, but.

1161
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 2: We don't elect stewards.

1162
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 4: We don't really we don't elect our business agents or

1163
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 4: like anything like that. We vote on our contracts and

1164
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 4: that's it, you know, at our union meetings. I've had

1165
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 4: one union meeting where we did a vote that was

1166
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 4: introduced by leadership. Right, It's just it's, yeah, it's not

1167
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 4: the most democratic culture. And that's another thing that that

1168
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 4: needs to change as well.

1169
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean I think that goes back to

1170
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 1: a sort of like, you know, a fundamental political conflict,

1171
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: which is like, is democracy when you vote for someone

1172
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:34,439
Speaker 1: else to make every decision? Or is democracy when people

1173
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:38,959
Speaker 1: collectively make decisions themselves? And the sort of slipperydus of

1174
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 1: those two things causes you know, like causes you know,

1175
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:46,560
Speaker 1: allows people who essentially want to be the only ones

1176
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 1: who ever get to make decisions to be able to

1177
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 1: claim that they are in favor of democracy or whatever.

1178
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: But you know mean like mean that they get to

1179
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: make all decisions after they get elected, and not mean

1180
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 1: actual people's make decisions for themselves.

1181
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, I need a more song who says it's

1182
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 3: more of a delegate role than a you know, representative.

1183
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 1: Okay, I guess, I guess my My final thing is

1184
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 1: I yeah, you you two are both encouraging are going

1185
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 1: to encourage people to vote no on this contract for it,

1186
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 1: the the the the surely long list of both technical, procedural,

1187
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 1: I material and like broadly social reasons.

1188
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's correct. I'll be Yeah, I'll be voting no

1189
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 3: and also advocating for that and also I mean just

1190
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 3: also advocating people to vote as well.

1191
01:08:53,760 --> 01:09:02,759
Speaker 4: Yes, big same on that low union participation and sends

1192
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 4: a bad message to the company. So definitely definitely doing

1193
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:11,759
Speaker 4: both and continuing to have those conversations on the shop

1194
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 4: floors with folks explaining my concerns and stuff like that.

1195
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 4: But yeah, no, I'm I'm also going to be voting

1196
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 4: no on this contract as well.

1197
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that is Yeah, I guess I guess that

1198
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,400
Speaker 1: that that is our coverage of this. There is still

1199
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 1: time for there is still time for there to actually

1200
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 1: be a striker, for this contract to fail and for

1201
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 1: people to fight for a better one. And yeah, I

1202
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 1: wish both of you two good luck in fighting this

1203
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 1: and yeah, and thank you both for coming on.

1204
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thanks so much for having us.

1205
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 4: I was excited to give you guys an update about

1206
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 4: all the crazy shit we talked about in the first episode.

1207
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad, glad, glad we've got.

1208
01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 3: To talk about it a pleasure of being And yeah,

1209
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 3: appreciate the time.

1210
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:05,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you do you have anything to plug before.

1211
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:10,760
Speaker 3: You know, a yes or no vote. Solidarity all all

1212
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 3: workers and everyone on the shop floor. And you know,

1213
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 3: we'll got to keep on fighting for better conditions.

1214
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you too, dear listener, can fight for better

1215
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 1: conditions in your own workplace. And yeah, if one day,

1216
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:31,680
Speaker 1: one day, fight for a world we don't have workplaces

1217
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 1: like this at all.

1218
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:34,480
Speaker 3: Amen, hallelujah.

1219
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:41,719
Speaker 2: It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

1220
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1221
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:46,760
Speaker 3: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the

1222
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

1223
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 2: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated

1224
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 2: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,