WEBVTT - 176. A conversation with my Mum

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<v Speaker 1>Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast where we talk through some of the big

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<v Speaker 1>life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they

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<v Speaker 1>mean for our psychology.

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<v Speaker 2>Today is International Women's Day, and I thought what better

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<v Speaker 2>way to celebrate than to bring my mum on the

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<v Speaker 2>show to discuss motherhood, feminism, being a leader, a successful

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<v Speaker 2>woman in a male dominated industry, all of the above.

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<v Speaker 2>She is a pretty cool lady and my personal hero.

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<v Speaker 2>I know that sounds cliche, but I am super lucky

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<v Speaker 2>to have had such a wonderful role model who has

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of wisdom to share, and I thought you

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<v Speaker 2>guys could benefit from some of that wisdom as well.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode is part of Iheart's International Women's Day initiative

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<v Speaker 2>called Women Take the Mic. You can find a bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of other interviews just like this one by so Women

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<v Speaker 2>Take the Mic wherever you get your podcasts. Let's jump

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<v Speaker 2>into the interview. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, wherever

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<v Speaker 2>you are in the world, it is so great to

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<v Speaker 2>have you here. Back for another episode as we break

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<v Speaker 2>down the psychology of our twenties. Today, we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be doing something a little bit different. I know I

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<v Speaker 2>say that every guest is my favorite, but honestly, this

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<v Speaker 2>one I think kind of has to take the cake

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<v Speaker 2>by obligation because they are blood. I thought, it's International

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<v Speaker 2>Women's Day today. Who better to talk to who is

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<v Speaker 2>more my hero than my own mother? So today I'm

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<v Speaker 2>bringing on my mum to come and have a chat

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<v Speaker 2>with me as we talk about mother daughter dynamics, motherhood,

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<v Speaker 2>being a successful woman in business as she is, and

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<v Speaker 2>feminism and all the good things that come with it. So, hey, Mom,

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<v Speaker 2>how you going? Hey Jim, you were saying to me

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<v Speaker 2>that you were nervous before this.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm a bit nervous. Why Ah, because I probably haven't

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<v Speaker 3>been well.

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<v Speaker 4>I haven't been interviewed by you before, and it's a

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<v Speaker 4>different dynamic.

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<v Speaker 3>And of course you know I want to do well

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<v Speaker 3>by you.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, you want to impress the listeners.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I just I don't want to let you down.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't want to come across as not being worthy

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<v Speaker 4>of your wonderful pod.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's okay. I will defend you to the death.

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<v Speaker 2>If anyone says anything, I'll be like, that's my mother

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<v Speaker 2>you're talking about. So block deleted. I honestly think this

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<v Speaker 2>will be a great chat because we have a good

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<v Speaker 2>relationship both as a mother and daughter and as kind

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<v Speaker 2>of friends as well.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah me too, I'm looking I'm looking forward to it.

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<v Speaker 4>It's just it's a different dynamic for me.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm in charge. Yeah, you're in my turf.

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<v Speaker 3>I can't hang up.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't hang up with blood related So I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to bring you on because obviously it's International Woman's Day,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was thinking, let's do a special episode this,

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<v Speaker 2>Let's do an episode talking about what it means to

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<v Speaker 2>be a woman, to identify as a woman, and part

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<v Speaker 2>of what comes with that is also like a discussion

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<v Speaker 2>around like our relationship with our mothers and a relationship

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<v Speaker 2>with our parents and all these other things. How like

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<v Speaker 2>our childhood informs the women that we grow up to be.

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<v Speaker 2>And I thought that we could do a little deep

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<v Speaker 2>dive into what it was like for you to become

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<v Speaker 2>my mom. Because I'm the oldest daughter, you're also the

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<v Speaker 2>oldest daughter, and just like what I was like as

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<v Speaker 2>a child, what it was like becoming a mother, like

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<v Speaker 2>I said, and then what it's like to run a

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<v Speaker 2>business basically, which you do well. You're a CEO.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's like, well, certainly plenty to talk about.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm going to start with a hard hitting question. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>go for it, because I wanted to know this as well.

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<v Speaker 2>What was I like as a child? Do you remember?

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<v Speaker 2>Be embarrassed if you don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>The funny thing is you really do remember.

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<v Speaker 4>And I suspect that there's I need to be a

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<v Speaker 4>bit careful because of course memories change over time, and

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<v Speaker 4>you think you remember certain things. I'm sure you remember

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<v Speaker 4>some things differently to the way I remember them.

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<v Speaker 3>We can get to that. But actually, the really.

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<v Speaker 4>Interesting thing is when I sort of think back on

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<v Speaker 4>you and your sisters, I've got really clear memories of

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<v Speaker 4>the days each of you were born, my sort of

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<v Speaker 4>very clear first impressions of each of you, and and

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<v Speaker 4>it was it's funny.

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<v Speaker 3>You're all different.

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<v Speaker 4>I remember, so what I remember of you the day

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<v Speaker 4>you were born, and by the way you had to

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<v Speaker 4>come in, you know, with the bang. You were an

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<v Speaker 4>emergency as a child.

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<v Speaker 3>So so there was that, There was that.

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<v Speaker 4>But the thing I remember was in amongst all of

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<v Speaker 4>this sort of calm chaos, was was you sort of

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<v Speaker 4>sort of coming out with these big eyes, just sort

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<v Speaker 4>of slowly blinking at the world as if to say,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, where am I?

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<v Speaker 3>What? What if I come to?

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<v Speaker 4>But not not crying so much and just sort of,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, trying to sort of focus straight out of

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<v Speaker 4>the gate, trying to focus on what was around you

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<v Speaker 4>and trying to make sense of it is what it felt.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, Oh I can't remember that.

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<v Speaker 4>But yeah, and then you know you were quiet as

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<v Speaker 4>as a little baby for the first week or so,

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<v Speaker 4>but that changed.

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<v Speaker 3>But the other thing too, is that I think.

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<v Speaker 4>The other really strong kind of recollection for me was

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<v Speaker 4>that very early on you realize that your kids come

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<v Speaker 4>out with their own personalities. And because I too had

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<v Speaker 4>done a bit of psychology in my time, I think

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<v Speaker 4>there's that whole nature versus nurture sort of thing that

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<v Speaker 4>goes through, and I think you start off thinking, you,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, you're going to be this amazing.

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<v Speaker 3>Parent and it's all going to be nurture.

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<v Speaker 4>But you know, probably because you are a first it

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<v Speaker 4>was a pretty overwhelming kind of sense of, oh, this

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<v Speaker 4>little person has come out you know, with a sent

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<v Speaker 4>with their own sense of who they are, their own personality,

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<v Speaker 4>and then.

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<v Speaker 3>What were you like as a kid. I've you know,

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<v Speaker 3>you were strong minded.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that hasn't changed much.

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<v Speaker 3>I know it hasn't, but you were.

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<v Speaker 4>You really had strong views even as a youngster. But

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<v Speaker 4>you were happy and as the first child. For us,

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<v Speaker 4>the biggest thing was you were a sleeper. And my

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<v Speaker 4>GOLLI gosh, we love that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's so cute. I love that you said I came

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<v Speaker 2>out and I was quiet for the first week, and

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<v Speaker 2>the irony being now I literally talk on the internet

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<v Speaker 2>for my job, which is so funny. And I am

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<v Speaker 2>a bit of a yapper obviously. I love a yar.

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<v Speaker 2>I love a yar.

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<v Speaker 4>You were just a quiet little Mulu when you were

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<v Speaker 4>just a wee little baby.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was your favorite obviously for the first five

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<v Speaker 2>years at least.

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<v Speaker 4>Well you as about and I say you're a favorite

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<v Speaker 4>oldest daughter.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's so diplomatic. I still think that you'll have

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<v Speaker 2>a favorite. You just can't say. And I think that

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<v Speaker 2>I'm yours, hopefully my younger sisters, hopefully Elli and Hannah

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<v Speaker 2>a listening.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well I'm going to assume they are.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. So this is the thing. I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like, how old were you when you had me,

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<v Speaker 2>you were thirty two, right, thirty three? Thirty three? Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so you were like well and well into your thirties,

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<v Speaker 2>but you were like my age, like nine years older

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<v Speaker 2>than I am now.

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<v Speaker 3>Yep.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's like insane to me to think that I

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<v Speaker 2>would be ready to have a child in nine years, like,

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<v Speaker 2>let alone in like fifteen. What was like the biggest

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<v Speaker 2>lesson you learned having children? Did you actually always want

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<v Speaker 2>children even when you were younger.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I always wanted kids even when I was younger.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, it's interesting because like thirty three is you know,

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<v Speaker 4>it's not young to be having kids.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, in the spirit of turtle frankness, you know, this

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<v Speaker 3>took us a while to get pregnant with you.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't need the Internet to know that.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, but it's you know, and it's just it is

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<v Speaker 4>one of those things that yeah, we you know, we

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<v Speaker 4>were keen to have kids. You know, life, you find

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<v Speaker 4>your partners at whatever age. Other things kind of happen,

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<v Speaker 4>and you know, you I think one of the one

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<v Speaker 4>of the things that I was thinking about and in

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<v Speaker 4>terms of this conversation, was how people think about when

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<v Speaker 4>to have kids.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, for me, it was when I met.

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<v Speaker 4>Your dad, and you know, we went overseas and did

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<v Speaker 4>some things and then came home to Australia and we're

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<v Speaker 4>keen to start a family, and you know, we feel

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<v Speaker 4>blessed to have three kids.

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<v Speaker 3>But it's not always a straight line. I definitely felt.

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<v Speaker 4>Very ready to be having kids, but it comes with

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<v Speaker 4>a lot of you know a lot of ups and

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<v Speaker 4>downs too, and things that you don't know what happens

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<v Speaker 4>through pregnancies and whatever, and.

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, we're you know, was I ready? I was?

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<v Speaker 4>But then in some ways, I guess you're never ready

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<v Speaker 4>because you never know what's going to happen. And that's

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<v Speaker 4>part of the challenge, is the uncertainty of it all.

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<v Speaker 2>Was it harder when we were younger or is it

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<v Speaker 2>harder now now that we're because we're a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>us were I flew the nest pretty young. I left

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<v Speaker 2>tar when I was like seventeen. But Ellie and Hannah

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<v Speaker 2>are like getting to the point where they're about to leave.

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<v Speaker 2>Has been that Has that been difficult? Being like, oh

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<v Speaker 2>am I no longer having that role that you've had

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<v Speaker 2>for twenty four years.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's one of the other things you do

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<v Speaker 3>learn when you have kids.

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<v Speaker 4>And maybe I think about this because you know, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>I was a working mum for big chunks of you know,

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<v Speaker 4>your younger life, and your sisters as well, and particularly

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<v Speaker 4>you know, when you were in primary school, and I

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<v Speaker 4>think there's a sense that when kids are really young,

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<v Speaker 4>they really need their parents, and they do for certain things.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, I found when you.

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<v Speaker 4>Were in high school and your sisters as they've gotten older,

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<v Speaker 4>that you continue to need your parents, but in different

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<v Speaker 4>ways and for different things, and that sense changes. But

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<v Speaker 4>I kind of thought that, you know, there was times

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<v Speaker 4>when you guys were in high school, for instance, where

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<v Speaker 4>you needed your parents around just as much as you

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<v Speaker 4>did when we were in primary school. And so I

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<v Speaker 4>think that's maybe one of the I don't know if

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<v Speaker 4>myths is the right word, but there's so much focus on,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, being there for kids when they're younger, and

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<v Speaker 4>actually I think the pressure is there all the way

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<v Speaker 4>through and just being clear about that and recognizing you

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<v Speaker 4>have to try to find a way to be there

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<v Speaker 4>for your kids no matter what else is going on.

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<v Speaker 4>It's just one of the you know, one of the

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<v Speaker 4>challenges but also one of the great joys of being

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<v Speaker 4>a parent when when you feel like you are doing

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<v Speaker 4>that and hopefully your kids, I think you're doing that well.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so interesting because I feel like for a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of my teenagers, I didn't really need you, well at

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<v Speaker 2>least I thought I didn't need you. And then as

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<v Speaker 2>soon as I went to university, and then actually like

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<v Speaker 2>probably the second year of university, like the first year,

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<v Speaker 2>I really was like I don't need my parents, Like

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<v Speaker 2>I am a big girl, I am an adult now

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<v Speaker 2>I live independently. And then it was like, oh, you

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<v Speaker 2>get older, and it's like reversal and you're like, oh

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<v Speaker 2>my gosh, I really need my mom and I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>I really like it's kind of coming back to the nest,

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<v Speaker 2>Like it's such a big thing in your twenties that

0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:10.400
<v Speaker 2>you fly the nest and you go off and you

0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:12.680
<v Speaker 2>do your own thing. But then I think that the

0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.000
<v Speaker 2>further along on that journey, the more you're like, actually,

0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:17.120
<v Speaker 2>I want to come home, like and I want to

0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:19.400
<v Speaker 2>see my parents and I want to call my parents.

0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.800
<v Speaker 2>And I remember it was like my first like big

0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.360
<v Speaker 2>heartbreak when I was at Uni that I was like

0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.120
<v Speaker 2>suddenly so much more reliant on you guys. In a

0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:30.800
<v Speaker 2>way that I didn't feel like I had been since

0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:31.760
<v Speaker 2>I was a kid.

0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:36.040
<v Speaker 4>Because I mean, I think you know, I've seen it

0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:37.760
<v Speaker 4>in your sisters and well as well.

0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.840
<v Speaker 3>Of course, you go through phases of where you're.

0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.520
<v Speaker 4>Really independence is really important to you, and it's it's

0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:48.120
<v Speaker 4>the actual independence, and I think it's the perception of

0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:53.079
<v Speaker 4>independence as well. But I think you know, from my perspective,

0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:58.000
<v Speaker 4>just being around sometimes is important then, so, you know,

0:11:58.080 --> 0:11:59.960
<v Speaker 4>because I think it allows you to sort of go

0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.560
<v Speaker 4>often and live your life, but knowing that if you

0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:05.680
<v Speaker 4>need it, it's there, and even if you don't necessarily

0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.960
<v Speaker 4>acknowledge it, I think there's a sense that you know,

0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.720
<v Speaker 4>you your parents can provide a bit of a foundation

0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:13.640
<v Speaker 4>and you know if you do need to come back

0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.240
<v Speaker 4>or need support, we're there. But it's you know, the

0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:19.480
<v Speaker 4>flip side is it's it's fantastic as a parent to

0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:22.760
<v Speaker 4>see your kids going off and doing that. And then yeah,

0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:26.280
<v Speaker 4>hopefully at different stages the perception or whatever of that

0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:29.200
<v Speaker 4>independence becomes less important and you and that's the whole

0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:33.240
<v Speaker 4>thing about your relationship kind of ebbs and flows and evolves,

0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:34.959
<v Speaker 4>and it's yeah, it's a nice thing.

0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.920
<v Speaker 2>What's been the hardest part about being a mother.

0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:40.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a good question.

0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.480
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I think in all honesty, it's the sort

0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:46.720
<v Speaker 4>of vulnerability and the uncertainty of it.

0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:52.440
<v Speaker 3>Like you just, you know, with a partner, there's an

0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:53.199
<v Speaker 3>element of it.

0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.600
<v Speaker 4>But when you you know, when you have kids and

0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:57.839
<v Speaker 4>you just love them so much and care for them

0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.679
<v Speaker 4>so much, it's that you know what them go out

0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.480
<v Speaker 4>into the world, and the equal measure of wanting them

0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:08.200
<v Speaker 4>to be independent and excited and exploring the world and

0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:12.199
<v Speaker 4>doing everything that you did, but you know, also sort

0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.280
<v Speaker 4>of probably having a greater understanding of all the things

0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.120
<v Speaker 4>that can go wrong, and just that balance of.

0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.560
<v Speaker 3>Just you know, there's always just that little bit of fear.

0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.400
<v Speaker 4>You never want harm or sadness or anything to come

0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.080
<v Speaker 4>to your kids, but that's not the way they can

0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.439
<v Speaker 4>live their lives. So it's just that uncertainty, and it's

0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:32.160
<v Speaker 4>you know, it brings great excitement and emotion and joy,

0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:35.880
<v Speaker 4>but every now and then, you know you're white knuckling

0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:36.240
<v Speaker 4>in a bit.

0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.760
<v Speaker 2>Really. It's so interesting because I even feel that way

0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.600
<v Speaker 2>towards Hannah and Ellie, like my sisters, where Ellie is

0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:45.880
<v Speaker 2>going to UNI, and I think about what my first

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.480
<v Speaker 2>two years of UNI are like, and I want her

0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.480
<v Speaker 2>to have those experiences, but I also know like how

0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.679
<v Speaker 2>chaotic and sometimes awful they were, and I'm like, maybe

0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.000
<v Speaker 2>I'll just protect you from them, Like maybe you could

0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.440
<v Speaker 2>just be a little girl, little a little maybe for

0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.960
<v Speaker 2>a little bit longer and like not have those that independence.

0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.360
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, I feel that towards my sister. I

0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.000
<v Speaker 2>can't imagine what that would feel like as a mother,

0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.800
<v Speaker 2>being like I gave birth to this child who was

0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.400
<v Speaker 2>now like doing like off in the world, and I

0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:17.840
<v Speaker 2>like don't know where they are, don't know what they're

0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.320
<v Speaker 2>doing at all times. What was like an experience where

0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:21.960
<v Speaker 2>you said you'd be like white knuckling.

0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.280
<v Speaker 4>It, Oh, it's you know this thing, Well, I don't know.

0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.480
<v Speaker 4>You go overseas and you know, I'm.

0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Thinking about that time I was in ampsinem and I

0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.560
<v Speaker 2>called you and was like I'm dying possibly. And I

0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.760
<v Speaker 2>wasn't even like on anything. I wasn't I know the

0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.240
<v Speaker 2>connotations of like being an ampsinam. I was just like

0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 2>really tired, and I was like, I'm dying. I've decided

0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.640
<v Speaker 2>like my anxiety and I called you guys like three

0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:47.800
<v Speaker 2>am well.

0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.080
<v Speaker 3>And it was it was the you know it was

0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:52.320
<v Speaker 3>that like, maybe white.

0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.600
<v Speaker 4>Knuckling is the wrong way to describe it, but there

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.440
<v Speaker 4>is a certain sense that when your phone rings in

0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.880
<v Speaker 4>the middle of the night. You know, once you've kids,

0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.560
<v Speaker 4>that that has a certain you leap to. You can

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.160
<v Speaker 4>leap to the wrong conclusion and so your heart so

0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:10.520
<v Speaker 4>it's racing. You calm yourself down, but then you know

0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:12.320
<v Speaker 4>there was an element of it would have been nice

0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.040
<v Speaker 4>if you'd phone the next day to remind us that

0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:15.160
<v Speaker 4>you're okay.

0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:19.160
<v Speaker 2>No, no, that's not how it works. I was too,

0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:21.320
<v Speaker 2>So I was eighteen and selfish. I wasn't gonna let

0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:22.480
<v Speaker 2>you guys know I was okay.

0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:27.400
<v Speaker 4>But but the other thing, too, is just the emotional

0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.000
<v Speaker 4>sort of stuff and the emotional hurt. And so that's why,

0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.040
<v Speaker 4>you know, white knuckling is not the right term. But

0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:34.920
<v Speaker 4>you do expose yourself to feeling it. You know, you've

0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.600
<v Speaker 4>experienced it yourself, but then to watch other people who

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:39.600
<v Speaker 4>you care about go through some of that stuff, which

0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:43.240
<v Speaker 4>is just it's just life, but you know it's it's

0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.800
<v Speaker 4>not it's not easy to see other people go through

0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.240
<v Speaker 4>that and to be sad or to be you know,

0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.200
<v Speaker 4>to be hursh and in some ways really the emotional

0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.000
<v Speaker 4>stuff is harder than you know, going to get the

0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:59.040
<v Speaker 4>stitches or whatever else. And you know, we've had conversations

0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.920
<v Speaker 4>about this that you know, we try to do the

0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.440
<v Speaker 4>right thing. We tried to raise each of you as

0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.800
<v Speaker 4>independent people who could make their own decisions and who

0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:13.480
<v Speaker 4>were resilient to those challenges. And sometimes it meant, you know,

0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.720
<v Speaker 4>letting you find your way a bit. And I'm sure

0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:20.800
<v Speaker 4>that felt hard and it was hard to watch and

0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:24.880
<v Speaker 4>experience as well, but you've got to, you know, it's

0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.560
<v Speaker 4>always trying to walk that line of doing things that

0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:31.600
<v Speaker 4>you know, trying to be the parent that sets you

0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:35.640
<v Speaker 4>up for success in your future, which sometimes you know

0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:39.800
<v Speaker 4>comes across, as you know, not necessarily being the kindest

0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.840
<v Speaker 4>or most protective parent at different stages when you're younger.

0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.040
<v Speaker 2>I know exactly what you're referring to. And I remember

0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.080
<v Speaker 2>being in primary school and all of the people, all

0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.560
<v Speaker 2>of my friends had these like helicopter parents who had

0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:55.080
<v Speaker 2>a drop of the heart would.

0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.600
<v Speaker 1>Be there to fix.

0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Things for them, and you guys were not those parents.

0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.680
<v Speaker 2>You were like, oh, you're having problems with school, great,

0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:04.520
<v Speaker 2>go and talk to your teacher, deal with it, like

0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.560
<v Speaker 2>not that callous You won't like deal with it, like

0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:09.520
<v Speaker 2>get out of our face, we don't want to hear

0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.200
<v Speaker 2>from you. But it was like that thing, right, did

0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:13.680
<v Speaker 2>have a point where I was like, gosh, I wish

0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:15.520
<v Speaker 2>that my mom was just like a bit more angry

0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 2>on my behalf. And I'm sure you were, but you

0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.960
<v Speaker 2>were like and now I'm super grateful for the fact

0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.200
<v Speaker 2>that you made me be a problem solver and independent

0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.280
<v Speaker 2>because it's I think a big part of my personality.

0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.280
<v Speaker 2>But that was definitely times where I was like, gosh,

0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:33.040
<v Speaker 2>I do just want my mom to scream at someone

0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:33.359
<v Speaker 2>for me.

0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.399
<v Speaker 4>Well, there were times when can I just say that

0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:39.119
<v Speaker 4>little bit of independence which usually your dad let you

0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.800
<v Speaker 4>exercise more than me. There were moments when I similarly

0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.119
<v Speaker 4>went to pick you up from childcare and thought what

0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:49.160
<v Speaker 4>is she wearing or what is she doing? And then

0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:51.760
<v Speaker 4>packing your own lunch that had its highs and lows as.

0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, Oh yeah, what was what? Did I pack? Junk food?

0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.480
<v Speaker 3>Well? Just yeah, fair few crackers.

0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, dah, I was growing girl, I was hungry. I

0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:06.439
<v Speaker 2>was sharing them. I don't know what. So this is

0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:10.000
<v Speaker 2>like a hot, hot question, but you have three daughters,

0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:11.440
<v Speaker 2>did you ever want a son?

0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:13.800
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:15.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so interesting, isn't it.

0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:21.080
<v Speaker 4>Look I think you're always I think you always sort

0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.679
<v Speaker 4>of think, oh, you know, one of each, you know,

0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.600
<v Speaker 4>at least like having one of each in the family,

0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:28.080
<v Speaker 4>not necessarily just two kids.

0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.320
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I think you do. But can I be

0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:31.200
<v Speaker 3>really honest.

0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:34.720
<v Speaker 4>And say, well, for starters, I reckon With every one

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.800
<v Speaker 4>of my pregnancies, at least at one stage someone told

0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.680
<v Speaker 4>me that I was having a boy, and no one

0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.040
<v Speaker 4>ever told me I was having girls. But like with you,

0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.639
<v Speaker 4>we were walking down the street in Fitzroy one morning

0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.399
<v Speaker 4>and this Italian NNA came from across the street, like walked,

0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:51.760
<v Speaker 4>you know, one hundred meters from across the street, came

0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:52.720
<v Speaker 4>up to me and said.

0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.480
<v Speaker 3>It's a boy. So that was pretty funny.

0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.240
<v Speaker 4>And when I was pregnant with Hannah, I definitely thought

0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:03.200
<v Speaker 4>she was a boy, just because she behaves so differently

0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.600
<v Speaker 4>in the womb to the rest of you, because she

0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:12.840
<v Speaker 4>was a little pocket rocket in there. But so after you,

0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.480
<v Speaker 4>and like after you and Ellie, I have to say

0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:18.480
<v Speaker 4>my greatest fear was that I was going to have

0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.360
<v Speaker 4>a boy, because I was like, okay, I've got two

0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:25.560
<v Speaker 4>girls now I think I understand them, and a boy

0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.840
<v Speaker 4>is just gonna like throw me off now, but I.

0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.880
<v Speaker 3>Think it's this is going to sound like such a cliche, but.

0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:36.600
<v Speaker 4>And in all honesty, because after you were born, like

0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:39.320
<v Speaker 4>you know, the whole the emergency sees a thing was

0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.479
<v Speaker 4>a moment and at the time it was, you know,

0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.680
<v Speaker 4>our doctor was fantastic. But when I look back, I thought, wow,

0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:48.639
<v Speaker 4>that was a moment, and from then on you do

0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.680
<v Speaker 4>just sort of think, well, I'm just I just feel

0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.159
<v Speaker 4>blessed to have healthy kids, you know.

0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:56.439
<v Speaker 3>So that's the truth of it.

0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:59.600
<v Speaker 2>So I you didn't know what gender, did you? Was

0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:00.960
<v Speaker 2>it a all three?

0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:01.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:06.160
<v Speaker 2>No, way, I didn't know that. Yeah, oh that's so cute.

0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.080
<v Speaker 4>But also the funny thing is that each time around

0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:11.760
<v Speaker 4>we had three names for boys, but only one name

0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:12.560
<v Speaker 4>for a girl.

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.120
<v Speaker 2>So they knew someone in the someone in the universe knew.

0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:19.760
<v Speaker 2>So that's actually really interesting. I had no idea. But

0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:21.359
<v Speaker 2>I do also think you didn't have sons, but you

0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:25.280
<v Speaker 2>raised us like sons. I've said this since I was

0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.080
<v Speaker 2>like younger. I'm like, you guys raised us like boys

0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.440
<v Speaker 2>in a very like traditional stereotypical way that people raise

0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:35.520
<v Speaker 2>children like boys. Just letting us get into so much mischief.

0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.920
<v Speaker 2>We were always dirty. I'm pretty sure I only wore

0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.600
<v Speaker 2>boys clothes for a long time. Buzz light your T shirt.

0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.600
<v Speaker 3>Buzz light your outfits, honey, don't just say T shirts.

0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:46.080
<v Speaker 3>You were the full kitten kaboodle.

0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:47.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well I was a super fan.

0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:48.320
<v Speaker 3>I was.

0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:51.480
<v Speaker 2>I was a stan I loved that man.

0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:52.120
<v Speaker 3>Yea.

0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:54.920
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I just feel like there were so many

0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.159
<v Speaker 2>ways that you guys kind of raised us without like

0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:59.800
<v Speaker 2>an idea of gender. Like I maybe I'm just being

0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:02.879
<v Speaker 2>remembering things that I want to remember them, but I

0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:06.760
<v Speaker 2>don't remember having dolls. I think also was the fact

0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.800
<v Speaker 2>that maybe, like the general you're lying now, come on, really,

0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:11.760
<v Speaker 2>what doll did I have?

0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:12.160
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.399
<v Speaker 3>My goodness, come on? What did you used to do

0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:16.320
<v Speaker 3>to your barbies?

0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh? I made weird Barbie. I used to cuddle the

0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:21.919
<v Speaker 2>hair off. Yeah, and their fingers as well. I went

0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:23.200
<v Speaker 2>the astra mark definitely.

0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:25.520
<v Speaker 4>I don't remember the fingers, but you definitely were queen

0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:26.800
<v Speaker 4>of the Barbie haircut.

0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:28.440
<v Speaker 3>These were punk rocker barbies.

0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:30.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:32.000
<v Speaker 4>I think one of the things too, that I've come

0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:35.520
<v Speaker 4>to really appreciate, and you know, you make the decisions

0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.199
<v Speaker 4>you do in terms of work and life and all

0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:42.080
<v Speaker 4>the rest of it. But I've really come to the

0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:47.520
<v Speaker 4>view that the fact that your dad's you know, spent

0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:49.640
<v Speaker 4>a lot of time at home with each of you,

0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.920
<v Speaker 4>and it was very clear for you, I think from

0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.320
<v Speaker 4>my perspective, and I think it's because there were fewer

0:21:56.359 --> 0:22:01.000
<v Speaker 4>men in the playground at the time, but having a

0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:04.640
<v Speaker 4>father at homes, he'd let you take more risks, There's

0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.680
<v Speaker 4>no doubt about it. And he was much more comfortable

0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:09.840
<v Speaker 4>with that. And I can there were so many times

0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:13.080
<v Speaker 4>when I talk about white knuckling, actually watching you race

0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:17.639
<v Speaker 4>to the corner of the footpath on your bike every time,

0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:19.880
<v Speaker 4>as you just scream down the street on your bike,

0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:21.800
<v Speaker 4>I just used to think, oh my gosh, I hope

0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:22.720
<v Speaker 4>she stops in time.

0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:24.879
<v Speaker 3>And it's the same for all of yours, you know,

0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:25.760
<v Speaker 3>each of your sisters.

0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:29.639
<v Speaker 4>But you know, Bart was just he let you guys,

0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:32.119
<v Speaker 4>you know, jump and run and climb, and you know

0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.000
<v Speaker 4>he was famous in the I mean I remember coming

0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.760
<v Speaker 4>around the corner of the playground at the school and

0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:39.960
<v Speaker 4>seeing all of the mums kind of standing in a

0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.239
<v Speaker 4>semi circle with their mouths open, and I knew what

0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:45.080
<v Speaker 4>was going on, and it was Bart standing there throwing

0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:46.919
<v Speaker 4>kids in the air, and they had this kind of

0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:50.520
<v Speaker 4>half happy, half terrified look on their face, and it

0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:54.680
<v Speaker 4>just so explains the difference of you know, I think

0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:55.879
<v Speaker 4>how you guys were raised.

0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:58.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's true because dad was a stay at home

0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.800
<v Speaker 2>dad for our childhood. I knew that was a period

0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:04.040
<v Speaker 2>where you were you stayed at home but you were

0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:06.439
<v Speaker 2>still working. But he was like a full stay at

0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:10.040
<v Speaker 2>home dad. And I know I'm talking about you, but

0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:12.960
<v Speaker 2>that there was definitely moments that I remember being a

0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:16.320
<v Speaker 2>kid where he faced a lot of discrimination for that,

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:18.840
<v Speaker 2>whilst you probably also face a lot of discrimination for

0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:21.320
<v Speaker 2>being a working mum. Like neither of you had it

0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:23.840
<v Speaker 2>easy to kind of subvert the gender norms. The one

0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:26.399
<v Speaker 2>I always think of is the time that that woman

0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:30.679
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't let her daughter come over because she thought he

0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:33.120
<v Speaker 2>was a sex offender or something like that.

0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:36.720
<v Speaker 3>It was someone who yeah, did I won't repeat it

0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:40.199
<v Speaker 3>because it was illegal. It was illegal, Yeah, and it was,

0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:44.159
<v Speaker 3>but yeah, he faced that. It was Yeah, he faced that.

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:46.679
<v Speaker 4>But equally, I'm not sure if you remember this, It

0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:49.919
<v Speaker 4>was this was when I went to when I just

0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:52.280
<v Speaker 4>started this period, so there's about five years when I

0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:56.119
<v Speaker 4>was predominantly the stay at home parent. You were in

0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:59.320
<v Speaker 4>high school by then, but your sisters were in primary school.

0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:03.720
<v Speaker 4>And I remember going to a birthday party that one

0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:05.520
<v Speaker 4>of Ellie's friends was having, and we were at that

0:24:05.640 --> 0:24:09.920
<v Speaker 4>indoor playground and I arrived to the party and the

0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:12.400
<v Speaker 4>woman who was hosting it, you know, sort of said

0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:15.320
<v Speaker 4>to me, oh, you know, who's who's your child?

0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:20.320
<v Speaker 3>And I said Ellie And she said well, she goes, oh,

0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:23.080
<v Speaker 3>are you are you Bat's wife?

0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:28.040
<v Speaker 4>And I said yes and she said oh, And all

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:30.399
<v Speaker 4>along I just thought he was this lovely single dad.

0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:33.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, And I just thought embarrassing for her.

0:24:33.480 --> 0:24:36.800
<v Speaker 4>Oh, it's just it was just really brutal. And I thought,

0:24:36.920 --> 0:24:39.760
<v Speaker 4>what and what do I think about all your mums

0:24:39.760 --> 0:24:41.960
<v Speaker 4>who come and pick your kids up? And so it

0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:43.359
<v Speaker 4>just it'spun both ways.

0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:44.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it really did.

0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:47.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I'm glad that it happened that way because

0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:50.359
<v Speaker 2>I feel like we've got a really unique childhood and

0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:52.919
<v Speaker 2>now it's so much more common. But back then, like

0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:56.680
<v Speaker 2>it was so weird, like early early two thousands to

0:24:56.720 --> 0:24:59.159
<v Speaker 2>see like a stay at home dad. It was.

0:24:59.520 --> 0:24:59.800
<v Speaker 3>It was.

0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:02.080
<v Speaker 4>It was a tough gig, it was, and both ways,

0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:05.639
<v Speaker 4>like it was very hard for him, very lonely, to

0:25:05.720 --> 0:25:09.680
<v Speaker 4>be honest, but and look, I don't you know, I'm

0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:11.639
<v Speaker 4>not trying to say it was better or words for

0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:13.119
<v Speaker 4>either of us, but it was.

0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:14.480
<v Speaker 3>It was equally frustrating.

0:25:14.480 --> 0:25:16.639
<v Speaker 4>If you'd rock up in the school yard, you know,

0:25:16.680 --> 0:25:18.720
<v Speaker 4>I'd drop you off at school, and I'd be in

0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:22.440
<v Speaker 4>a suit and on my way to work, and people

0:25:22.440 --> 0:25:24.240
<v Speaker 4>would stop and ask me if I was coming to

0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:27.479
<v Speaker 4>the book reading at eleven thirty. And you know, in

0:25:27.520 --> 0:25:29.960
<v Speaker 4>contrast that the dads who were dropping off in their suits,

0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:32.000
<v Speaker 4>no one expect everyone knew where they were going. They

0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:34.080
<v Speaker 4>were all going to work, and they didn't get They

0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:36.520
<v Speaker 4>got praise for making time to drop their kids off,

0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:39.520
<v Speaker 4>and they weren't asked, you know, are you going.

0:25:39.480 --> 0:25:40.080
<v Speaker 3>To stay longer?

0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:42.000
<v Speaker 4>And it sounds like a small thing, but there was

0:25:42.000 --> 0:25:43.520
<v Speaker 4>always a bit of It.

0:25:43.440 --> 0:25:46.240
<v Speaker 3>Was hard not to feel a little bit of guilt.

0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:49.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or like feel like they're being like, oh, you're

0:25:49.800 --> 0:25:51.800
<v Speaker 2>you're like a failure as a mother because you're not

0:25:51.880 --> 0:25:53.159
<v Speaker 2>sticking around and win.

0:25:53.480 --> 0:25:55.840
<v Speaker 4>Because I haven't. I haven't made the time for that.

0:25:56.119 --> 0:25:58.440
<v Speaker 4>It was it just felt like that was the message.

0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:02.119
<v Speaker 2>Here's the thing. I don't remember single book reading, so

0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:04.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it mattered that you weren't there. You

0:26:04.880 --> 0:26:06.200
<v Speaker 2>were there for the important things.

0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:08.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well I think I hope that that's the case.

0:26:09.119 --> 0:26:13.200
<v Speaker 4>But definitely, regardless, you have to make the you make

0:26:13.240 --> 0:26:16.359
<v Speaker 4>the decisions that have to work for you know, your family,

0:26:16.440 --> 0:26:18.200
<v Speaker 4>and it's a combination of a whole bunch of things,

0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:20.880
<v Speaker 4>and it's you know, you've got to have income and

0:26:21.320 --> 0:26:23.280
<v Speaker 4>you know, ideally you have a house to live in

0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:26.439
<v Speaker 4>and financial security and you know you've got to you

0:26:26.520 --> 0:26:28.680
<v Speaker 4>just make those choices and they're not set and forget

0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:31.840
<v Speaker 4>you kind of ebb and flow with that. But I

0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:34.159
<v Speaker 4>think the hard the hard part, and the thing you

0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:36.240
<v Speaker 4>probably get a bit more perspective on when you get

0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:38.680
<v Speaker 4>a bit older, is that those opinions don't really matter,

0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:42.040
<v Speaker 4>And yeah, you just got to You've got to glide

0:26:42.040 --> 0:26:43.840
<v Speaker 4>past them a little bit and know that you're making

0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:47.200
<v Speaker 4>the best decisions that you can, you know, and there's

0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:49.440
<v Speaker 4>no you're never going to do it perfectly.

0:26:49.440 --> 0:26:52.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, well, that kind of leads to my next question.

0:26:53.400 --> 0:26:55.479
<v Speaker 2>Do you think you made any mistakes? Would you do

0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:56.400
<v Speaker 2>anything differently?

0:26:58.040 --> 0:26:59.960
<v Speaker 3>Did we make mistakes? One hundred and one mistakes?

0:27:00.560 --> 0:27:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I name a couple. I want something to blame

0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:04.400
<v Speaker 2>you about I want something to hold over your head.

0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:08.280
<v Speaker 3>Well, there's there's there's I don't know, there's lots of

0:27:08.320 --> 0:27:08.800
<v Speaker 3>little things.

0:27:08.800 --> 0:27:11.920
<v Speaker 4>You go back and you you know, partly you say

0:27:11.960 --> 0:27:13.800
<v Speaker 4>things or you phrase something in a particular way, and

0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:15.520
<v Speaker 4>you know, you don't think.

0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:17.320
<v Speaker 3>About it, but it lands, it gets hurt in a

0:27:17.359 --> 0:27:18.159
<v Speaker 3>particular way.

0:27:18.040 --> 0:27:22.520
<v Speaker 4>And and you know when your kids recount things back

0:27:22.560 --> 0:27:25.080
<v Speaker 4>to you, you didn't mean it that way, or you

0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:27.840
<v Speaker 4>didn't the context, you saw the context differently. There's there's

0:27:27.840 --> 0:27:31.879
<v Speaker 4>one hundred and one little things like that, and you know,

0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:34.280
<v Speaker 4>all sorts of stuff. And I don't look back and

0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:39.480
<v Speaker 4>think that there's one major thing that we did.

0:27:40.119 --> 0:27:41.119
<v Speaker 3>You know, we.

0:27:42.520 --> 0:27:46.800
<v Speaker 4>But you know that you didn't get everything right. And

0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 4>whether it was what you did or the tone that

0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:51.320
<v Speaker 4>you did it with in the time, you just know that.

0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:54.840
<v Speaker 4>But would you do anything differently? I think that's a

0:27:54.880 --> 0:27:56.280
<v Speaker 4>hard I mean, in some ways, I think it's a

0:27:56.320 --> 0:28:00.479
<v Speaker 4>hard question or even a harsh question, because you know,

0:28:01.080 --> 0:28:03.399
<v Speaker 4>you do the best that you can at the time,

0:28:03.680 --> 0:28:07.440
<v Speaker 4>and you know, I think one thing that's very hard

0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:09.760
<v Speaker 4>on parents, if I'm honest, is that there's so much

0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:14.919
<v Speaker 4>else going on. There's so much other context that your

0:28:15.000 --> 0:28:19.680
<v Speaker 4>kids don't know about, nor should they, but it does

0:28:20.160 --> 0:28:23.400
<v Speaker 4>mean that sometimes, you know, you come home from work,

0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:25.760
<v Speaker 4>there's been a lot of stuff going down. There's a

0:28:25.760 --> 0:28:28.119
<v Speaker 4>lot of stress or anxiety related to other things that

0:28:28.160 --> 0:28:30.439
<v Speaker 4>you don't necessarily want to share with your kids, but

0:28:30.480 --> 0:28:33.080
<v Speaker 4>it does inform some of the decisions you make or

0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:37.119
<v Speaker 4>how you communicate them. And at the time, you know,

0:28:37.160 --> 0:28:38.360
<v Speaker 4>I don't think your kids appreciate it.

0:28:38.360 --> 0:28:39.440
<v Speaker 3>When you grow up, I think you do.

0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:45.000
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, that's all in the mix. On a lighter note,

0:28:45.080 --> 0:28:49.840
<v Speaker 4>I'll give you an example. Yeah, Ellie teases me all

0:28:49.880 --> 0:28:52.440
<v Speaker 4>the time because I'm not sure if you remember this,

0:28:52.520 --> 0:28:54.400
<v Speaker 4>but you know, I used to sing songs to you

0:28:54.480 --> 0:28:59.000
<v Speaker 4>guys when I was putting you to bed, and Ellie

0:28:59.000 --> 0:29:01.280
<v Speaker 4>in particular, always just wanted to sing along.

0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:04.040
<v Speaker 2>She's so cute.

0:29:04.120 --> 0:29:06.120
<v Speaker 4>She's still like that, but I just wanted to I

0:29:06.200 --> 0:29:08.920
<v Speaker 4>just wanted to go to sleep. And so she teases

0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:10.840
<v Speaker 4>me now about the fact that I would be quite

0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:13.120
<v Speaker 4>firm on the like, no, you're not to.

0:29:13.080 --> 0:29:15.720
<v Speaker 3>Sing the songs with me, And she says, you're singing all.

0:29:15.640 --> 0:29:17.240
<v Speaker 4>These cute songs and all I wanted to do was

0:29:17.280 --> 0:29:19.240
<v Speaker 4>sing along, But you would say no, you've got to

0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:22.000
<v Speaker 4>go to bed now, So maybe.

0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:23.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm so cute. Maybe on reflection, I would have done

0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:24.640
<v Speaker 3>that differently.

0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:29.320
<v Speaker 2>That's so cute because it's like, I forget that although

0:29:29.360 --> 0:29:32.520
<v Speaker 2>we each grew up together, I'd never heard that, like

0:29:32.560 --> 0:29:36.080
<v Speaker 2>we had such different memories of like our interactions with you.

0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:37.800
<v Speaker 3>That's so cute.

0:29:37.920 --> 0:29:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, she's adorable.

0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:42.400
<v Speaker 3>But I'm going to say she also well, I mean,

0:29:42.640 --> 0:29:43.560
<v Speaker 3>so here's the other thing.

0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:46.479
<v Speaker 4>So I'm trying to get her to sleep, because Hannah,

0:29:46.480 --> 0:29:50.000
<v Speaker 4>of course didn't sleep at all. And so when she's

0:29:50.040 --> 0:29:53.360
<v Speaker 4>recounting these stories, like we're in year one of a

0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:57.000
<v Speaker 4>five year stage of you know, youngest daughter not sleeping

0:29:57.120 --> 0:29:57.800
<v Speaker 4>so many nights.

0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:02.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to ask you a few more questions around motherhood.

0:30:03.320 --> 0:30:05.360
<v Speaker 2>And I want to ask whether you think that you

0:30:05.440 --> 0:30:09.560
<v Speaker 2>were a feminist mother. Not just a feminist, but were

0:30:09.560 --> 0:30:11.000
<v Speaker 2>you a feminist mother.

0:30:11.920 --> 0:30:16.600
<v Speaker 4>So this is a really interesting question for me because

0:30:17.320 --> 0:30:19.320
<v Speaker 4>for a couple of reasons. One because I actually think

0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:22.080
<v Speaker 4>I've become more of a feminist as I've gotten older,

0:30:22.680 --> 0:30:24.719
<v Speaker 4>and if I think about it in the context of

0:30:25.960 --> 0:30:29.959
<v Speaker 4>not just being someone who believes in equal rights and

0:30:30.040 --> 0:30:33.160
<v Speaker 4>lives that way and hopefully raises their girls that way,

0:30:33.200 --> 0:30:34.200
<v Speaker 4>and I'll come back to it, but.

0:30:35.440 --> 0:30:37.760
<v Speaker 3>I've probably i'd probably be a bit.

0:30:37.640 --> 0:30:42.520
<v Speaker 4>Critical of me in terms of being a really strong

0:30:42.600 --> 0:30:47.440
<v Speaker 4>advocate for other women. So I think in the way

0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:49.360
<v Speaker 4>I lived, in the things I did. But if I

0:30:49.360 --> 0:30:53.920
<v Speaker 4>think about, you know, feminist feminist, being an advocate and

0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:57.640
<v Speaker 4>a really strong advocate for all women, I'm not sure

0:30:57.640 --> 0:31:00.000
<v Speaker 4>i'd give myself a huge score on that, to be honest.

0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:01.600
<v Speaker 4>So I'd look back and think I could have done

0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:05.920
<v Speaker 4>more or have been more vocal and in different circumstances.

0:31:06.640 --> 0:31:10.480
<v Speaker 4>But in terms of how I raised being a feminist mother, yeah,

0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:14.680
<v Speaker 4>I think so. And yeah, and I think, you know,

0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:18.200
<v Speaker 4>in terms of being an advocate for each of you,

0:31:19.600 --> 0:31:24.040
<v Speaker 4>both as individuals but also as girls and young women, Yeah,

0:31:24.080 --> 0:31:24.280
<v Speaker 4>I do.

0:31:24.560 --> 0:31:25.160
<v Speaker 3>I do think so.

0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:28.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would say so as well. I do think

0:31:28.200 --> 0:31:31.000
<v Speaker 2>that like this, but the brand of feminism that we

0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:33.959
<v Speaker 2>had when we were younger was very white feminism. But

0:31:34.000 --> 0:31:38.480
<v Speaker 2>I think also that was like just what was there

0:31:38.600 --> 0:31:41.520
<v Speaker 2>at the time. Like I always think about like Hillary

0:31:41.520 --> 0:31:46.760
<v Speaker 2>Clinton as that as like an example, but I also

0:31:46.800 --> 0:31:51.560
<v Speaker 2>think that, like it's just like the process of unlearning

0:31:51.600 --> 0:31:55.080
<v Speaker 2>your white feminism in a way, especially like where we lived,

0:31:55.320 --> 0:31:58.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, we lived in like in Australia, in inner

0:31:58.880 --> 0:32:05.120
<v Speaker 2>city Australia, where like the discussions about like intersectionality weren't

0:32:05.160 --> 0:32:08.720
<v Speaker 2>being had back in like two thousand, like the early

0:32:08.800 --> 0:32:12.680
<v Speaker 2>twenty tens. But now I feel like you're such a

0:32:12.680 --> 0:32:15.480
<v Speaker 2>good example. Also, I feel like you're not giving yourself

0:32:15.560 --> 0:32:19.240
<v Speaker 2>enough credit there, Like you being an advocate. I think

0:32:19.280 --> 0:32:22.000
<v Speaker 2>you did a lot more than most other people. Think

0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:24.680
<v Speaker 2>about all your friends, Like you have so many strong

0:32:24.720 --> 0:32:28.360
<v Speaker 2>female friends who you advocate for in so many ways.

0:32:28.520 --> 0:32:29.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, look, I appreciate that I do.

0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:31.760
<v Speaker 4>There's just some things I've learned on the way through

0:32:31.840 --> 0:32:35.680
<v Speaker 4>and some things in leadership roles where if I was

0:32:35.720 --> 0:32:38.000
<v Speaker 4>being honest, you know, I think I could have done

0:32:38.040 --> 0:32:39.720
<v Speaker 4>more and maybe I came late to some of the

0:32:39.760 --> 0:32:43.280
<v Speaker 4>things that I should have been, you know, doing more

0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:48.720
<v Speaker 4>of and being much more supportive and more demonstrably supportive

0:32:48.760 --> 0:32:53.080
<v Speaker 4>I think, and just recognizing the importance of that over

0:32:53.360 --> 0:32:59.880
<v Speaker 4>demonstration of being a champion or supporter of people, not

0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:02.360
<v Speaker 4>having it be sort of implied or assumed.

0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:06.880
<v Speaker 2>M M. How do you think that our relationship has

0:33:07.040 --> 0:33:11.120
<v Speaker 2>changed as I've become an adult? Do you think we've

0:33:11.120 --> 0:33:12.080
<v Speaker 2>gotten closer?

0:33:12.520 --> 0:33:12.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:33:12.880 --> 0:33:14.680
<v Speaker 4>No, I definitely think so. But I think it's one

0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:20.400
<v Speaker 4>of those things that, yeah, I don't know, like it's

0:33:21.560 --> 0:33:24.280
<v Speaker 4>I think you're it's just a different type of closeness, right,

0:33:25.240 --> 0:33:28.720
<v Speaker 4>Like there's maybe a weird word, but there's an intimacy

0:33:28.760 --> 0:33:30.920
<v Speaker 4>when you're with your kids when you're younger, and a

0:33:30.960 --> 0:33:34.760
<v Speaker 4>closeness and a and a dependency that that's you know,

0:33:34.840 --> 0:33:38.640
<v Speaker 4>that's really close, right, and and a lot of fun

0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:42.080
<v Speaker 4>in that and that you know, that fun piece is

0:33:42.200 --> 0:33:45.520
<v Speaker 4>a closeness that's pretty unique to that younger state when

0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:49.320
<v Speaker 4>your kids are younger, and it's it's just lovely. But

0:33:49.840 --> 0:33:52.400
<v Speaker 4>you know, as your kids grow up and certainly with you,

0:33:52.400 --> 0:33:55.000
<v Speaker 4>you know, being able to have grown up conversations and

0:33:55.560 --> 0:33:58.120
<v Speaker 4>you know what I think it is is being able to.

0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:05.280
<v Speaker 3>Experience and appreciate that respect. And you know, there's not a.

0:34:05.200 --> 0:34:07.360
<v Speaker 4>Lot of people that you go through life with where

0:34:07.400 --> 0:34:09.400
<v Speaker 4>you just really look at them and think, I really.

0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:13.279
<v Speaker 3>Respect who you are as a person, and well.

0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:16.400
<v Speaker 4>And I've got you know, I feel lucky to have

0:34:16.520 --> 0:34:19.000
<v Speaker 4>a lot of really good friends who I do really respect,

0:34:19.040 --> 0:34:23.200
<v Speaker 4>but you know, there's not that many people. And anyway,

0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:25.360
<v Speaker 4>it's fun to sort of have been a part of

0:34:25.400 --> 0:34:27.719
<v Speaker 4>that and to have seen you grow up and then

0:34:27.760 --> 0:34:30.560
<v Speaker 4>to have so much respect and appreciation and admiration for

0:34:30.600 --> 0:34:32.839
<v Speaker 4>what you've done. And I guess, to be honest, if

0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:34.799
<v Speaker 4>I'm being a little bit egotistical, you sort of feel

0:34:34.840 --> 0:34:35.880
<v Speaker 4>like you're a little bit.

0:34:35.680 --> 0:34:38.360
<v Speaker 3>Of part of that and it's very special.

0:34:39.040 --> 0:34:40.800
<v Speaker 2>I do like to give you guys a lot of credit.

0:34:40.840 --> 0:34:42.080
<v Speaker 2>I will say, Oh.

0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:43.880
<v Speaker 3>I don't like I don't want too much. It's just

0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:46.040
<v Speaker 3>it's just that little bit where you sort of like

0:34:46.120 --> 0:34:49.120
<v Speaker 3>every now and then, ah, yeah, she's mine.

0:34:51.080 --> 0:34:54.600
<v Speaker 2>I think Dad does it more than you do. No

0:34:54.640 --> 0:35:00.799
<v Speaker 2>comment diplomatic. Do you find it weird when you know

0:35:00.880 --> 0:35:03.000
<v Speaker 2>when I was like in my as I got into

0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:04.759
<v Speaker 2>my early twenties, did you find it weird when I

0:35:04.760 --> 0:35:08.880
<v Speaker 2>would talk about my relationships or like sex or anything

0:35:08.960 --> 0:35:12.279
<v Speaker 2>like that. Was that weird? Because I feel like there

0:35:12.280 --> 0:35:15.799
<v Speaker 2>was a point where it kind of yeah, I don't know,

0:35:15.880 --> 0:35:17.799
<v Speaker 2>I was like, am I treating my mom more like

0:35:17.840 --> 0:35:19.760
<v Speaker 2>my friend or like my mom?

0:35:20.520 --> 0:35:22.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? I didn't find it weird.

0:35:22.239 --> 0:35:27.680
<v Speaker 4>I mean occasionally there was an early podcast that I'm

0:35:27.719 --> 0:35:29.399
<v Speaker 4>not sure if you remember this, but you said something

0:35:29.440 --> 0:35:31.640
<v Speaker 4>along the lines of, oh, my parents might be listening,

0:35:32.320 --> 0:35:34.880
<v Speaker 4>and I jokingly was saying, yeah, I rang you up

0:35:34.920 --> 0:35:37.479
<v Speaker 4>and said yes, I'm listening, which you know, of course

0:35:37.560 --> 0:35:40.520
<v Speaker 4>was not contemporary, but nonetheless, so every now and then

0:35:40.560 --> 0:35:45.120
<v Speaker 4>there's maybe a bit, you know, too much information. I

0:35:45.120 --> 0:35:49.719
<v Speaker 4>think the hardest part is that I was probably I'm

0:35:49.840 --> 0:35:52.120
<v Speaker 4>very close to my mum, your grandma, you know that.

0:35:53.239 --> 0:35:55.319
<v Speaker 3>And we probably share more information now.

0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:57.480
<v Speaker 4>But when I was younger, so it was me and

0:35:57.520 --> 0:35:59.200
<v Speaker 4>my brother, but I had a step brother and a

0:35:59.239 --> 0:36:02.840
<v Speaker 4>stepsister and that sort of mixed marriage, and you know,

0:36:03.640 --> 0:36:07.480
<v Speaker 4>my mum and my stepfather were sort of off, kind

0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:10.400
<v Speaker 4>of building their own life together, and the easiest thing

0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:13.279
<v Speaker 4>for me to do was just you know, play my

0:36:13.400 --> 0:36:14.600
<v Speaker 4>cards close to my chest.

0:36:15.360 --> 0:36:16.880
<v Speaker 3>So I didn't share a lot of information.

0:36:18.280 --> 0:36:20.880
<v Speaker 4>It wasn't really letting anyone know what I was up

0:36:20.920 --> 0:36:22.920
<v Speaker 4>to live in my own life. And like you, I

0:36:23.000 --> 0:36:26.840
<v Speaker 4>was at UNI when I was seventeen and so and

0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:29.360
<v Speaker 4>then you know, my parents moved into State, so I was,

0:36:29.760 --> 0:36:33.240
<v Speaker 4>like you, really independent, but in a kind of flip scenario,

0:36:33.320 --> 0:36:36.160
<v Speaker 4>if you like. And so I probably wasn't sharing as

0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:38.759
<v Speaker 4>much as information, and you know, I think it was

0:36:38.800 --> 0:36:41.040
<v Speaker 4>just getting used to what you were prepared to sort

0:36:41.080 --> 0:36:43.000
<v Speaker 4>of share as well. It wasn't that it was right

0:36:43.080 --> 0:36:44.960
<v Speaker 4>or wrong or I felt uncomfortable. It was just different

0:36:45.000 --> 0:36:47.839
<v Speaker 4>to perhaps the way I had been at that age,

0:36:47.920 --> 0:36:51.239
<v Speaker 4>and so just a bit of getting used to that.

0:36:51.239 --> 0:36:53.719
<v Speaker 2>That's so interesting are the things you don't want to hear.

0:36:56.840 --> 0:37:03.840
<v Speaker 4>Maybe there's maybe a bit of day information that before

0:37:03.880 --> 0:37:06.799
<v Speaker 4>the not to be named boyfriend arrived on the scene,

0:37:06.800 --> 0:37:11.239
<v Speaker 4>that I went a little bit whilst not wanting to

0:37:11.239 --> 0:37:13.600
<v Speaker 4>look uninterested, was a bit la la la in my brain.

0:37:14.960 --> 0:37:17.560
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I'm very good where i'd like, I

0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:20.200
<v Speaker 2>don't talk talk about them buying name or introduce you

0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:23.960
<v Speaker 2>until it's like serious, like until we've been dating for

0:37:24.000 --> 0:37:27.480
<v Speaker 2>at least six months. So I feel like my current

0:37:27.560 --> 0:37:31.040
<v Speaker 2>boyfriend slash just not in my current my boyfriend will

0:37:31.080 --> 0:37:34.799
<v Speaker 2>be for a long time. That just kind of like

0:37:34.840 --> 0:37:37.359
<v Speaker 2>popped onto the scene and then you, guys, I think

0:37:37.400 --> 0:37:38.840
<v Speaker 2>I mentioned him and then you met him like a

0:37:38.880 --> 0:37:39.399
<v Speaker 2>month later.

0:37:40.360 --> 0:37:43.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's fine, it was it's more, I mean, if

0:37:43.440 --> 0:37:46.520
<v Speaker 4>I'm being really honest, it's not that it's more the

0:37:46.520 --> 0:37:48.520
<v Speaker 4>the more casual relationships.

0:37:49.040 --> 0:37:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh you didn't approve.

0:37:50.239 --> 0:37:54.200
<v Speaker 3>It's not that I didn't approve. I just didn't need

0:37:54.239 --> 0:37:55.160
<v Speaker 3>to know about them.

0:37:56.239 --> 0:37:58.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm just gonna say this for the listeners. The

0:37:58.600 --> 0:38:01.560
<v Speaker 2>information that I was giving my mom was like, oh,

0:38:02.200 --> 0:38:05.080
<v Speaker 2>a man was at my house last night, and you'd

0:38:05.080 --> 0:38:07.200
<v Speaker 2>be like, ah, no, no, he wasn't.

0:38:07.239 --> 0:38:08.840
<v Speaker 3>God, that's true. That's not true.

0:38:09.080 --> 0:38:13.600
<v Speaker 4>The funny one was when I picked you up on

0:38:13.640 --> 0:38:16.560
<v Speaker 4>a Saturday morning because we were flying back to Melbourne

0:38:16.640 --> 0:38:22.640
<v Speaker 4>for Grandma's birthday and you were furiatively texting someone in

0:38:22.680 --> 0:38:26.759
<v Speaker 4>the backseat of the uber, which was the person who

0:38:26.840 --> 0:38:27.560
<v Speaker 4>was still.

0:38:27.640 --> 0:38:33.440
<v Speaker 3>At your place. Did you know that, Yeah, because you.

0:38:33.480 --> 0:38:35.880
<v Speaker 4>Ended up having to tell me because I couldn't figure

0:38:35.920 --> 0:38:38.760
<v Speaker 4>out what all the texting was going on about.

0:38:39.360 --> 0:38:42.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was Oh my god, I completely forgot about that.

0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:47.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that's so true. That did happen. And the

0:38:47.239 --> 0:38:49.360
<v Speaker 2>thing was, you know what it was was this was

0:38:49.640 --> 0:38:54.640
<v Speaker 2>it was actually not good because my house where I'm

0:38:54.719 --> 0:38:57.759
<v Speaker 2>moving out literally today, but my current house, once you're

0:38:57.760 --> 0:39:00.279
<v Speaker 2>in the house and the door is locked, you can't

0:39:00.280 --> 0:39:03.640
<v Speaker 2>get out without a key, and it's metal bars all

0:39:03.680 --> 0:39:07.000
<v Speaker 2>over the windows, all over the doors and the hall

0:39:07.040 --> 0:39:08.920
<v Speaker 2>of the doors were locked and there were no keys

0:39:08.960 --> 0:39:12.320
<v Speaker 2>in the house and my roommates weren't coming back until

0:39:12.320 --> 0:39:15.640
<v Speaker 2>that evening, so I accidentally locked that man in my

0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:19.799
<v Speaker 2>house for eight hours before he could get out, and

0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:22.520
<v Speaker 2>I was and I was like, we were running late

0:39:22.520 --> 0:39:27.960
<v Speaker 2>for our flight. I was like, and well, obviously he's

0:39:28.000 --> 0:39:30.359
<v Speaker 2>not around anymore. So I'm not gonna say I'm gonna

0:39:30.360 --> 0:39:33.680
<v Speaker 2>be like, sorry, but can you imagine if he was listening, Sorry,

0:39:33.719 --> 0:39:35.919
<v Speaker 2>I locked you in my house for eight hours. That's

0:39:35.960 --> 0:39:47.520
<v Speaker 2>so funny. That's so funny. Business. I want to talk

0:39:47.560 --> 0:39:51.239
<v Speaker 2>about work because I was very lucky that I had

0:39:51.440 --> 0:39:56.040
<v Speaker 2>a mother like you, who was very very independently successful.

0:39:56.400 --> 0:39:59.480
<v Speaker 2>No NEPO babies here. You worked very very hard, but

0:39:59.520 --> 0:40:03.799
<v Speaker 2>you also to very unconventional way to success like you got.

0:40:04.400 --> 0:40:06.279
<v Speaker 2>You know, it was crazy to hear when I first

0:40:06.280 --> 0:40:08.880
<v Speaker 2>went to Union that you actually got asked to leave

0:40:09.040 --> 0:40:14.240
<v Speaker 2>your university. You got kicked out from the economics department.

0:40:14.280 --> 0:40:16.600
<v Speaker 2>And now you are an economist and you are a

0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:21.480
<v Speaker 2>very good economist and you're also a CEO. What do

0:40:21.520 --> 0:40:23.640
<v Speaker 2>you think with some of the hardest parts about breaking

0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:25.640
<v Speaker 2>into that male dominated industry.

0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:29.520
<v Speaker 3>Well, first of all, let's not just slide over.

0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:33.640
<v Speaker 4>Getting kicked out of UNI, because I do actually think

0:40:33.680 --> 0:40:36.600
<v Speaker 4>it's an important message. I think there's so much pressure

0:40:36.680 --> 0:40:40.760
<v Speaker 4>on people at high school and in their twenties around,

0:40:41.000 --> 0:40:47.840
<v Speaker 4>you know, going to union, just doing everything, getting amazing grades,

0:40:48.760 --> 0:40:51.399
<v Speaker 4>you know, paying for a life that's more and more

0:40:51.440 --> 0:40:54.520
<v Speaker 4>expensive by the day, you know, and doing all the

0:40:54.560 --> 0:40:56.840
<v Speaker 4>extracurricular stuff so that you end up with a CV

0:40:58.000 --> 0:41:00.719
<v Speaker 4>that gets you into a job that you want, right

0:41:00.760 --> 0:41:02.920
<v Speaker 4>And I just think this, you know, there's just so

0:41:03.120 --> 0:41:07.399
<v Speaker 4>much pressure on I think, and to understand where you're

0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:08.120
<v Speaker 4>going and what.

0:41:08.040 --> 0:41:09.040
<v Speaker 3>You think you should be doing.

0:41:09.880 --> 0:41:13.279
<v Speaker 4>So I actually make a point of talking about the

0:41:13.320 --> 0:41:16.399
<v Speaker 4>fact that it took me, you know, quite a few

0:41:16.480 --> 0:41:18.720
<v Speaker 4>years to get through UNI. I was fortunate didn't cost

0:41:19.040 --> 0:41:21.399
<v Speaker 4>what it costs to you guys now, but I did

0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:24.160
<v Speaker 4>fail two years of university because I had no idea

0:41:24.200 --> 0:41:26.239
<v Speaker 4>what I wanted to do. So I actually started off

0:41:26.280 --> 0:41:32.520
<v Speaker 4>doing a psychology degree double degree and really struggled, and

0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:34.400
<v Speaker 4>I was doing a whole bunch of sport and athletics

0:41:34.400 --> 0:41:37.440
<v Speaker 4>and just didn't know what I wanted to do. Decided

0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:41.399
<v Speaker 4>I didn't want to be a clinical psychologist. But yeah,

0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:42.520
<v Speaker 4>it was just sort of floundering.

0:41:43.480 --> 0:41:43.640
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:41:43.640 --> 0:41:45.480
<v Speaker 3>When I came out of UNI, I couldn't I couldn't

0:41:45.520 --> 0:41:49.279
<v Speaker 3>get a job interview because your agrees were so bad.

0:41:49.400 --> 0:41:53.279
<v Speaker 4>My transcript was crap, And yeah, I'd done all these

0:41:53.280 --> 0:41:55.040
<v Speaker 4>other things, and I'd worked and I you know, I

0:41:55.080 --> 0:41:57.680
<v Speaker 4>had competed successfully in athletics and blah blah blah. But

0:41:58.440 --> 0:41:59.800
<v Speaker 4>you know, it was just on a wing at a

0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:01.800
<v Speaker 4>pres for me to go, well, those grades don't reflect

0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:05.759
<v Speaker 4>who I really am, and they're like, well whatever. So

0:42:05.880 --> 0:42:08.160
<v Speaker 4>I took a year off and worked for a little while,

0:42:08.200 --> 0:42:11.960
<v Speaker 4>traveled overseas, which was a great experience. You know, I

0:42:12.000 --> 0:42:14.200
<v Speaker 4>met some people who just didn't have the opportunities that

0:42:14.239 --> 0:42:19.719
<v Speaker 4>I had, including a young woman studying economics, you know,

0:42:19.840 --> 0:42:22.799
<v Speaker 4>in in Turkey of all places, who was just never

0:42:22.800 --> 0:42:24.319
<v Speaker 4>going to have the opportunities that I had. And so

0:42:24.360 --> 0:42:28.080
<v Speaker 4>I came back and started studying again to sort of

0:42:28.120 --> 0:42:29.879
<v Speaker 4>show that I could get through it, and then ended

0:42:29.960 --> 0:42:32.239
<v Speaker 4>up really enjoying it. So I guess, you know, at

0:42:32.239 --> 0:42:34.360
<v Speaker 4>the risk of sort of waffling on a bit about it,

0:42:34.400 --> 0:42:37.160
<v Speaker 4>I do think it's an important message for people to

0:42:37.920 --> 0:42:40.520
<v Speaker 4>life isn't a straight line, and as long as you're

0:42:40.560 --> 0:42:43.120
<v Speaker 4>sort of learning and growing and heading in a direction

0:42:43.200 --> 0:42:47.239
<v Speaker 4>that you're enjoying, you know, just keep going with it

0:42:47.280 --> 0:42:49.879
<v Speaker 4>and when it stops working, then go and do something else.

0:42:51.080 --> 0:42:53.560
<v Speaker 2>It's so interesting because you have lived so many lives

0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:56.279
<v Speaker 2>that like I wasn't there for Like I always think

0:42:56.280 --> 0:42:59.719
<v Speaker 2>about how, you know, I've known you my entire life,

0:42:59.760 --> 0:43:02.200
<v Speaker 2>but you only known me for the last twenty four years,

0:43:02.680 --> 0:43:05.000
<v Speaker 2>and there were all these things that happened before me

0:43:05.680 --> 0:43:07.719
<v Speaker 2>that you have like a little wisdom from, like you

0:43:07.800 --> 0:43:10.480
<v Speaker 2>were my age once and like just going through the

0:43:10.520 --> 0:43:14.040
<v Speaker 2>insane level of like confusion and like big life changes.

0:43:14.640 --> 0:43:16.440
<v Speaker 2>And I do think that's a really nice message, and

0:43:16.440 --> 0:43:18.239
<v Speaker 2>I think that's one that you really always instilled in

0:43:18.360 --> 0:43:21.359
<v Speaker 2>us of like there is not a clear blueprint for

0:43:21.440 --> 0:43:24.919
<v Speaker 2>what creates a good life. You're allowed to like take

0:43:24.960 --> 0:43:28.680
<v Speaker 2>time to figure it out. And obviously we're all kind

0:43:28.680 --> 0:43:30.520
<v Speaker 2>of doing that now. Like what is this job? I

0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:33.000
<v Speaker 2>don't know what this This wasn't a job when I

0:43:33.040 --> 0:43:35.800
<v Speaker 2>was a kid, Actually it kind of was. Do you

0:43:35.800 --> 0:43:38.200
<v Speaker 2>remember we used to always listen to the radio This

0:43:38.239 --> 0:43:41.759
<v Speaker 2>American Life. I love that show. So I feel like

0:43:41.800 --> 0:43:44.480
<v Speaker 2>that was such a huge inspiration. Did you experience a

0:43:44.480 --> 0:43:46.719
<v Speaker 2>lot of like imposter syndrome going back to UNI or

0:43:46.719 --> 0:43:50.400
<v Speaker 2>when you were applying for jobs again because your transcript

0:43:50.480 --> 0:43:52.080
<v Speaker 2>was so not great?

0:43:52.280 --> 0:43:55.520
<v Speaker 4>Well, it's really it's really funny like on imposter syndrome. Yes,

0:43:56.400 --> 0:43:59.960
<v Speaker 4>all through my career and you know I've done, I've

0:44:00.120 --> 0:44:04.279
<v Speaker 4>chopped and changed a little bit and absolutely like I

0:44:04.280 --> 0:44:09.480
<v Speaker 4>can like like imposter syndrome when I started my first job,

0:44:09.520 --> 0:44:11.800
<v Speaker 4>because I started at Federal Treasury, and you know, to

0:44:11.840 --> 0:44:14.520
<v Speaker 4>get in there was challenging and there were you know,

0:44:15.520 --> 0:44:20.440
<v Speaker 4>my co cohort of grads was just so impressive. Like

0:44:20.520 --> 0:44:22.279
<v Speaker 4>in some ways, I was pretty focused on what I

0:44:22.280 --> 0:44:24.080
<v Speaker 4>wanted to get out of that. I had a really

0:44:24.120 --> 0:44:27.279
<v Speaker 4>clear objective and so in some ways I kind of

0:44:27.280 --> 0:44:28.920
<v Speaker 4>ignored a whole bunch of other stuff, like if I'm

0:44:28.960 --> 0:44:30.879
<v Speaker 4>really honest, and you know, back to the question about

0:44:30.880 --> 0:44:32.960
<v Speaker 4>feminism or whatever, Like I had a goal and I

0:44:33.040 --> 0:44:36.799
<v Speaker 4>just ran hard at it, and in some ways I

0:44:36.920 --> 0:44:38.359
<v Speaker 4>was you know, people sort of said to me, well,

0:44:38.400 --> 0:44:43.560
<v Speaker 4>you were sort of singular focus on that opportunity, you know.

0:44:44.080 --> 0:44:45.880
<v Speaker 3>Was probably too much and whatever.

0:44:45.960 --> 0:44:48.920
<v Speaker 4>But you know, I don't think they would have said

0:44:48.960 --> 0:44:51.200
<v Speaker 4>that if I was a man, to be honest, and.

0:44:51.120 --> 0:44:55.000
<v Speaker 2>It worked no way, So it didn't work you are now.

0:44:55.520 --> 0:44:59.239
<v Speaker 2>But so it was like you were doing economics, which

0:44:59.239 --> 0:45:02.520
<v Speaker 2>at the time a bit of a boys game. And

0:45:02.520 --> 0:45:05.840
<v Speaker 2>then also business is like the commerce kind of the

0:45:05.840 --> 0:45:07.120
<v Speaker 2>commerce side of it as well.

0:45:07.640 --> 0:45:08.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, I think.

0:45:09.480 --> 0:45:11.520
<v Speaker 4>Sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt. I also wanted to come

0:45:11.560 --> 0:45:15.040
<v Speaker 4>back on the imposter syndrome and my results. When I

0:45:15.080 --> 0:45:19.040
<v Speaker 4>was interviewed for Treasury, the person who was interviewing me

0:45:19.400 --> 0:45:23.560
<v Speaker 4>asked me precisely once about those my results and they

0:45:23.760 --> 0:45:24.960
<v Speaker 4>and they said, what happened here?

0:45:25.480 --> 0:45:28.080
<v Speaker 3>And I told them and that was it and never, what.

0:45:28.040 --> 0:45:29.440
<v Speaker 2>Did you say, You're just like I just didn't know

0:45:29.480 --> 0:45:29.960
<v Speaker 2>what I wanted.

0:45:30.120 --> 0:45:33.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I said, I was doing all these other things.

0:45:33.080 --> 0:45:34.920
<v Speaker 3>I had way too much on. I didn't know what

0:45:34.960 --> 0:45:36.680
<v Speaker 3>I wanted. I was floundering.

0:45:36.760 --> 0:45:40.680
<v Speaker 4>I came back with intent and here's the results, and

0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:43.600
<v Speaker 4>that was fine, and sorry to come back. The reason

0:45:43.600 --> 0:45:45.800
<v Speaker 4>I wanted to come back to that is because fast

0:45:45.800 --> 0:45:48.040
<v Speaker 4>forward a few years later, when I was actually interviewing

0:45:48.080 --> 0:45:51.759
<v Speaker 4>graduates for Treasury, there's a bunch of people being put

0:45:51.800 --> 0:45:56.000
<v Speaker 4>on piles who whose results kind of looked a bit

0:45:56.120 --> 0:45:59.719
<v Speaker 4>like mine, and I wanted to interview one or two

0:45:59.719 --> 0:46:03.319
<v Speaker 4>of them, and a few people in the room were

0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:05.920
<v Speaker 4>just like, no way, And so I fessed up and said, well,

0:46:05.920 --> 0:46:08.360
<v Speaker 4>you wouldn't have I wouldn't be here, like, don't.

0:46:08.200 --> 0:46:08.600
<v Speaker 2>You want to know.

0:46:08.680 --> 0:46:10.360
<v Speaker 4>Like, there's one person in particular, I was looking at

0:46:10.400 --> 0:46:13.400
<v Speaker 4>their results and they'd gone from really poor results to

0:46:13.520 --> 0:46:15.239
<v Speaker 4>just knocking out of the pack, and I said, don't

0:46:15.239 --> 0:46:18.000
<v Speaker 4>you want to know what happened there? Don't don't you

0:46:18.280 --> 0:46:20.880
<v Speaker 4>because that switch has flipped and I want to know

0:46:21.000 --> 0:46:22.920
<v Speaker 4>what's gone on and what this person is up to

0:46:23.040 --> 0:46:25.960
<v Speaker 4>because that's the person I want to talk to. And

0:46:26.040 --> 0:46:28.160
<v Speaker 4>so again, it was just a kind of an interesting

0:46:28.760 --> 0:46:30.200
<v Speaker 4>life lesson if you like.

0:46:31.880 --> 0:46:35.280
<v Speaker 3>Boys jobs. Yeah, like I.

0:46:34.400 --> 0:46:38.319
<v Speaker 4>Probably Treasury, there were fair few female grads, and you know,

0:46:38.360 --> 0:46:40.880
<v Speaker 4>we were very focused on making sure we continue to

0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:43.920
<v Speaker 4>recruit them. So yes, it was male dominated. It was

0:46:43.960 --> 0:46:46.880
<v Speaker 4>more that I had opportunities to be in really interesting

0:46:46.920 --> 0:46:49.879
<v Speaker 4>meetings where everyone who is more senior.

0:46:49.680 --> 0:46:55.800
<v Speaker 3>Was male, and that was good. It's I don't.

0:46:55.640 --> 0:46:58.440
<v Speaker 4>Know, maybe this is a funny side bar, but my

0:46:59.040 --> 0:47:02.360
<v Speaker 4>name's Melinda. People sometimes call me mel but at work

0:47:03.360 --> 0:47:05.359
<v Speaker 4>and particularly at Treasury. When I was at Treasury, that's

0:47:05.360 --> 0:47:08.640
<v Speaker 4>when I decided that people had to call me Milinda because.

0:47:08.440 --> 0:47:11.160
<v Speaker 2>Because mel sounds like a mail nate as well Mel Gibson,

0:47:11.280 --> 0:47:12.360
<v Speaker 2>and that was too dismissive.

0:47:13.239 --> 0:47:15.719
<v Speaker 4>Oh really, I went into my male boss introduced me

0:47:15.760 --> 0:47:17.480
<v Speaker 4>one day and said, oh, this is mel and it

0:47:17.560 --> 0:47:19.640
<v Speaker 4>was just sort of this, it was just a throwaway line,

0:47:19.640 --> 0:47:22.640
<v Speaker 4>and I thought, I can't have that throwaway line, and

0:47:22.320 --> 0:47:22.879
<v Speaker 4>so so.

0:47:22.840 --> 0:47:25.839
<v Speaker 2>You needed the extra syllables for the extra legitimacy.

0:47:26.120 --> 0:47:27.719
<v Speaker 3>Well it was, but it was just all part and

0:47:27.760 --> 0:47:29.040
<v Speaker 3>parcel of how you presented.

0:47:29.760 --> 0:47:31.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I actually agree with that.

0:47:31.600 --> 0:47:34.040
<v Speaker 4>So I just thought I can't have him just saying that,

0:47:34.360 --> 0:47:36.319
<v Speaker 4>and you know, we work closely together, but it just

0:47:36.320 --> 0:47:40.680
<v Speaker 4>felt like it was a trivialization of my introduction.

0:47:40.960 --> 0:47:44.319
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, so you're kind of like at this point

0:47:44.360 --> 0:47:46.560
<v Speaker 2>in your career now where you just I'm sure you

0:47:46.600 --> 0:47:49.480
<v Speaker 2>feel pretty secure, like you're a bit of a boss bitch.

0:47:51.320 --> 0:47:53.520
<v Speaker 2>It's true though, and I know that like that word

0:47:53.600 --> 0:47:56.080
<v Speaker 2>like like she is such a boss, Like what is

0:47:56.120 --> 0:48:00.359
<v Speaker 2>it like, go a boss? It's girl boss. Is kind

0:48:00.360 --> 0:48:04.440
<v Speaker 2>of funny because it's no like, yeah, it's used very dismissively,

0:48:04.520 --> 0:48:08.279
<v Speaker 2>like you're a girl boss. But having come through so

0:48:08.320 --> 0:48:10.640
<v Speaker 2>many stages and like, I don't think you're going to

0:48:10.719 --> 0:48:14.719
<v Speaker 2>retire anytime soon, unless you you are, and then that's

0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:19.000
<v Speaker 2>a surprise for me. What advice would you give me

0:48:19.640 --> 0:48:21.799
<v Speaker 2>right now at this stage in my career, and I

0:48:21.840 --> 0:48:24.560
<v Speaker 2>know it's very different to what you're what you were

0:48:24.560 --> 0:48:26.719
<v Speaker 2>doing at twenty four. Like you hadn't even graduated at

0:48:26.760 --> 0:48:30.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty four, had you know, you wouldn't have you would

0:48:30.080 --> 0:48:31.480
<v Speaker 2>have just gotten your master's.

0:48:32.360 --> 0:48:34.440
<v Speaker 3>Oh I graduated a couple of degrees.

0:48:35.480 --> 0:48:40.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh, but what would you do now? What advice would

0:48:40.080 --> 0:48:41.200
<v Speaker 2>you give me at this stage?

0:48:41.400 --> 0:48:41.560
<v Speaker 3>Well?

0:48:41.840 --> 0:48:44.319
<v Speaker 4>Can I can I ask a slightly different question? And

0:48:44.320 --> 0:48:46.520
<v Speaker 4>then what can I respond to a question you haven't asked?

0:48:46.560 --> 0:48:47.440
<v Speaker 4>And then I'll respond to that.

0:48:47.440 --> 0:48:50.319
<v Speaker 2>Question you're asking the questions now you're taking over the show,

0:48:50.520 --> 0:48:53.440
<v Speaker 2>Well you can if you want. Now I'm joking, you

0:48:53.480 --> 0:48:54.239
<v Speaker 2>can totally do that.

0:48:54.440 --> 0:48:57.120
<v Speaker 3>The one thing reference to sort of being.

0:48:58.440 --> 0:49:00.920
<v Speaker 4>The sort of boss bitch language or whatever, or labeled

0:49:01.600 --> 0:49:03.920
<v Speaker 4>girl boss or whatever you want to call it, like

0:49:04.000 --> 0:49:04.160
<v Speaker 4>I do.

0:49:05.760 --> 0:49:08.360
<v Speaker 3>I think I did want to say, there's one.

0:49:08.160 --> 0:49:12.279
<v Speaker 4>Thing I've really enjoyed about leading an organization is being

0:49:12.320 --> 0:49:14.240
<v Speaker 4>able to sort of set the tone and the values.

0:49:14.680 --> 0:49:16.479
<v Speaker 4>And I think people can think about a whole bunch

0:49:16.480 --> 0:49:19.480
<v Speaker 4>of things that being a CEO means or whatever, and

0:49:19.520 --> 0:49:22.440
<v Speaker 4>there's a lot of there's different responsibilities. But probably the

0:49:22.480 --> 0:49:25.800
<v Speaker 4>one thing I didn't really think about and underestimated was

0:49:25.840 --> 0:49:30.439
<v Speaker 4>that was the sense of satisfaction that you get out

0:49:30.440 --> 0:49:32.920
<v Speaker 4>of kind of being able to set the tone for

0:49:32.960 --> 0:49:33.719
<v Speaker 4>an organization.

0:49:35.440 --> 0:49:37.320
<v Speaker 3>And I think the reason that's.

0:49:37.080 --> 0:49:38.520
<v Speaker 4>I'm kind of I'm using as a bit of a

0:49:38.560 --> 0:49:40.839
<v Speaker 4>segue into your question because I think it's like it's

0:49:41.520 --> 0:49:43.960
<v Speaker 4>it's caused me to sort of reflect on how you

0:49:44.000 --> 0:49:47.719
<v Speaker 4>set your tone through your career, and I guess that's

0:49:49.160 --> 0:49:51.360
<v Speaker 4>that would be my kind of advice. I guess is

0:49:51.400 --> 0:49:54.400
<v Speaker 4>to you know, to think about, you know, who you

0:49:54.440 --> 0:49:56.239
<v Speaker 4>are and what sort of person you want to be

0:49:56.320 --> 0:50:01.080
<v Speaker 4>through the work that you do, and to not be

0:50:01.960 --> 0:50:06.960
<v Speaker 4>necessarily confined by thinking about a particular role or a

0:50:06.960 --> 0:50:10.879
<v Speaker 4>particular point in your career, but to you know, think

0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:13.120
<v Speaker 4>about the things that you enjoy doing because you do

0:50:13.200 --> 0:50:17.160
<v Speaker 4>them well and because you can have an impact whatever

0:50:17.200 --> 0:50:20.120
<v Speaker 4>that is, and just that sort of tone and the

0:50:20.200 --> 0:50:22.440
<v Speaker 4>values the way you want to live your life to

0:50:22.880 --> 0:50:26.320
<v Speaker 4>find ways to live that through work, and that's probably

0:50:26.320 --> 0:50:27.040
<v Speaker 4>something that.

0:50:29.080 --> 0:50:32.000
<v Speaker 3>You gain a confidence to be able to do through

0:50:32.040 --> 0:50:32.560
<v Speaker 3>your career.

0:50:33.360 --> 0:50:35.759
<v Speaker 4>And when I look back, you know, it's probably one

0:50:35.800 --> 0:50:38.480
<v Speaker 4>of the things you feel less confident doing when you're

0:50:39.040 --> 0:50:41.799
<v Speaker 4>you know, early on in a job or whatever that

0:50:41.840 --> 0:50:44.680
<v Speaker 4>you sort of feel sometimes you have to behave a

0:50:44.719 --> 0:50:48.600
<v Speaker 4>particular way. It will be in a particular role. And

0:50:48.800 --> 0:50:52.040
<v Speaker 4>you know, I was a company director at a very

0:50:52.080 --> 0:50:54.920
<v Speaker 4>young age. I was the only woman on the first

0:50:55.160 --> 0:50:58.600
<v Speaker 4>boards i joined, and there's certainly a lot of pressure

0:50:58.640 --> 0:51:02.719
<v Speaker 4>to sort of be the persona of that and and

0:51:02.800 --> 0:51:05.839
<v Speaker 4>I guess that's probably my bit of advice. If you

0:51:05.840 --> 0:51:09.480
<v Speaker 4>can find a way to do that faster than I did,

0:51:09.920 --> 0:51:11.640
<v Speaker 4>that would be my advice.

0:51:11.840 --> 0:51:14.319
<v Speaker 2>Or to find to find like your mission, well like

0:51:14.360 --> 0:51:14.759
<v Speaker 2>you're like.

0:51:14.880 --> 0:51:17.600
<v Speaker 4>But also just just to be to be who you

0:51:17.640 --> 0:51:21.720
<v Speaker 4>are and to know that that's you know, you don't

0:51:21.800 --> 0:51:26.000
<v Speaker 4>have to be the you know, the the persona. You

0:51:26.000 --> 0:51:28.040
<v Speaker 4>don't have to perform that role in the way other

0:51:28.040 --> 0:51:31.000
<v Speaker 4>people have performed that role or be that person or

0:51:31.360 --> 0:51:33.799
<v Speaker 4>and so it's just trying to be true to who

0:51:33.880 --> 0:51:36.520
<v Speaker 4>you are as a person and bring that into your work.

0:51:39.000 --> 0:51:40.960
<v Speaker 4>It's probably what i'd put on the table.

0:51:41.960 --> 0:51:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Thanks, mam. I appreciate the advice. Now. I think that's

0:51:46.560 --> 0:51:48.040
<v Speaker 2>all the questions that I have. Are there any more

0:51:48.120 --> 0:51:51.399
<v Speaker 2>questions you would like to ask yourself if you.

0:51:51.360 --> 0:51:53.120
<v Speaker 3>Feel the need No, no, no, that's it.

0:51:54.360 --> 0:51:57.080
<v Speaker 2>You're yeah, that's good. I'm glad. I feel like We

0:51:57.200 --> 0:52:00.439
<v Speaker 2>covered a lot of bases here. We talked about the hood,

0:52:00.480 --> 0:52:03.960
<v Speaker 2>we talk about we talked about feminism, we talked about

0:52:04.280 --> 0:52:06.719
<v Speaker 2>how you were a terrible parent and everything. I have

0:52:07.200 --> 0:52:10.760
<v Speaker 2>to blame you for just kidding. Nothing was the answer.

0:52:11.680 --> 0:52:14.840
<v Speaker 2>So thank you so much for coming on absolute pleasure.

0:52:14.960 --> 0:52:18.439
<v Speaker 2>I could think of nothing else I'd rather be doing. Yeah, well,

0:52:18.480 --> 0:52:22.319
<v Speaker 2>I'll that's so sweet. Why did that make me embarrassed?

0:52:22.360 --> 0:52:25.520
<v Speaker 2>And like, oh, thanks mom? No, it was actually so nice,

0:52:25.520 --> 0:52:27.000
<v Speaker 2>And I feel like it's so nice that we'll have

0:52:27.040 --> 0:52:28.799
<v Speaker 2>this for like, it will be on the internet for

0:52:28.840 --> 0:52:32.000
<v Speaker 2>a while and we can listen back to this when

0:52:32.040 --> 0:52:34.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking about putting you in a home or something.

0:52:34.480 --> 0:52:37.160
<v Speaker 4>Oh, you can just play it on repeat and I'll

0:52:37.160 --> 0:52:37.680
<v Speaker 4>feel happy.

0:52:38.239 --> 0:52:39.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I'm not going to put you in a home.

0:52:39.880 --> 0:52:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Do you want to be putting a home?

0:52:41.239 --> 0:52:44.120
<v Speaker 3>It depends, it depends. You may want to put me

0:52:44.160 --> 0:52:44.600
<v Speaker 3>in home.

0:52:45.480 --> 0:52:47.560
<v Speaker 2>No, I won't for as long as possible.

0:52:49.160 --> 0:52:51.680
<v Speaker 3>I'm looking forward to coming and sleeping on your couch tomorrow.

0:52:52.400 --> 0:52:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, yeah, my mum's coming to stay in

0:52:54.200 --> 0:52:56.440
<v Speaker 2>my new place tomorrow. It's very comfy. I actually had

0:52:56.480 --> 0:53:00.000
<v Speaker 2>a lie down on it before I tested it for you.

0:53:00.080 --> 0:53:02.560
<v Speaker 2>Perfect I can't believe I'm making you sleep on the couch,

0:53:03.080 --> 0:53:05.360
<v Speaker 2>but unfortunately the bed's taken.

0:53:07.360 --> 0:53:07.600
<v Speaker 3>Well.

0:53:07.640 --> 0:53:10.040
<v Speaker 2>Thank you again for coming on. As always, if you

0:53:10.160 --> 0:53:13.120
<v Speaker 2>enjoyed this episode, please feel free to leave a five

0:53:13.160 --> 0:53:16.160
<v Speaker 2>star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are listening

0:53:16.239 --> 0:53:18.520
<v Speaker 2>right now, share it with a friend if they would

0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:20.839
<v Speaker 2>like to hear it, And if you have any further

0:53:20.880 --> 0:53:25.839
<v Speaker 2>episode suggestions questions for my girl boss mum, please feel

0:53:25.880 --> 0:53:29.080
<v Speaker 2>free to dm me on Instagram at that Psychology podcast

0:53:29.600 --> 0:53:31.680
<v Speaker 2>or my personal at gemmas Bag and we will be

0:53:31.680 --> 0:53:38.480
<v Speaker 2>back next week for another episode.