1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: Chuck and we're just doing what we can together, moddeling 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 2: through the both of us, and this is stuff you 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: should know. 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: Wow, Ed Waite has set up. 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: I wanted to make sure the bar was really low. 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: Well, hold on a second before we get going. We 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: don't often plug shows, but there's a new one on 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: our network called Inner Cosmos. Oh, yes, that we wanted 11 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: to plug. That sounds super awesome. You know, have you 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: ever heard of David Eagleman. He's a neuroscientist. Seems like 13 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: he might have come up before, but he's from Stanford. 14 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: He's a best selling author and he's you know, he 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: explores these insightful questions about modern brain science, how it 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: intersects our lives. It's just kind of write up stuff 17 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: you should know. Is ali definitely and I think the 18 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: listeners would really checking it out. 19 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: So go check it out. 20 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: What's it called again, It's called Inner Cosmos. It's awesome, 21 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: very nice. I'm excited about this one. I think this 22 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: may button up our sort of talking to aliens suite. 23 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right, because we've done one on 24 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: SETI yes, which is called the Search for Estra Terrestrial 25 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: Jerk Intelligence. 26 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 27 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's go listen to that episode. It's great. 28 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: That's listening out for stuff out in the Great Beyond. 29 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: We did the Golden Records? 30 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: Did the Golden Records? What were those? 31 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:44,559 Speaker 2: Those were Carl Sagan's Love Child where he basically put 32 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 2: snippets of world music, pictures of people from around the world. 33 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,919 Speaker 2: I think there was like greetings on there. And also 34 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: then there were plaques. There was engravings of like human anatomy, 35 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 2: which is and I think our location in the universe too. 36 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: Okay, here's where we are and this is a. 37 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 2: Penis you think exactly. Check it out. 38 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: So now we're moving on to probably the culmination, which 39 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: is something called medi. 40 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 2: Oh wait, we did one more too, Yeah, No, we did. Okay, 41 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: you didn't want to talk about that? 42 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: Well, what was it? I can't remember. 43 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: Uh. I'll tell you, Chuck that there's a great name 44 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: for it, and uh I will share that with you directly. 45 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 2: But I just want to talk about what a great 46 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: name it was. I named it myself, yeah, and uh 47 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 2: it was just an all around good name. 48 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: It was kind of along these lines a little bit, right, man. 49 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: Oh, I got it how alien contact might work. Isn't 50 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 2: that a great name? 51 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: That's great? 52 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 2: So that was okay, that came before and then now 53 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 2: this one, and you're right, it's all buttoned up. We'll 54 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: never talk about it again. 55 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: Right, But like I said, now we're going to talk 56 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: about MEDI which also goes by active SETI, and that's 57 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: messaging to extra you know, ets intelligence. I'm not going 58 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: to try and say that word ever again on the show. 59 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: Oh always goop it up and you always snicker it's cute. 60 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: But let's get into it. 61 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,839 Speaker 2: So, Chuck, you said that active SETI METI. They're one 62 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: and the same. But the whole purpose of them is 63 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 2: to not just sit around and listen passively for you know, 64 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: alien transmissions. That's what we've been doing forever. This is 65 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 2: something entirely different. It's proactive where we are now figuring 66 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: out how to shout out into the universe and send 67 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 2: those transmissions that we're hoping to find from alien civilizations 68 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: ourselves out there for other alien civilizations to find. 69 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it turns out it's a pretty controversial thing. 70 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: I mean, when you first hear this idea, you're like, 71 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: if you're like me, you're like, oh cool, Like, great idea, 72 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: let's start sending messages out. But a lot of people 73 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: are saying, oh no, no, let's slow our role here, right, 74 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: and we'll get into all the pros and cons toward 75 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: the end. But there is an idea that capital g 76 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: capital s. The Great Silence is proof to some people 77 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: that hey, there is no one out here. We would 78 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: have heard something by now, the time that it would 79 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: take to colonize the Milky Way, you know, like it 80 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: would have happened by this point, and we would there 81 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: should be alien life everywhere if it was going to happen. 82 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. I saw someone say that it should be as 83 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 2: obvious to us as the full moon is, Like. 84 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: The universe should be pretty obvious theeming. 85 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 2: With alien life, and yet it's not. That's the basis 86 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: of the Fermi paradox. And so it's also been called 87 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: the Great Silence. It's just weird, it doesn't make sense, 88 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 2: and so a lot of people say, well, that just 89 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 2: means we're alone in the universe. Other people there's a 90 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 2: SETI researcher, a legendary SETI researcher named Jill Tarter. She 91 00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: said that that concluding that life, that the universe is 92 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 2: lifeless based on the small amount of searching we've done 93 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: is akin to dipping a glass of water in the 94 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: ocean and declaring the ocean lifeless after that. 95 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: Search, which is kind of the opposite. Like some people 96 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: are saying it would have happened by now, and she's saying, 97 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: how do you know we've been listening for you know 98 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: how long, like sixty something years? Yeah, And she's like, 99 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: that's nothing. So the idea of METI comes along, and 100 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: some people say that, you know, we may as well, 101 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: because we've been inadvertently bouncing, you know, since the advent 102 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: of satellites for communication and television and stuff like that. Right, 103 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: we've been sending signals out there inadvertently for years anyway, 104 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: So why not just put a little purpose behind it? 105 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: Or as our boss and founder of stuff you should know, 106 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: Connell Byrne would say, make it intentional. 107 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 2: Nice. 108 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: He'll always says that I love. 109 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,239 Speaker 2: That his ears are burning right now. 110 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,239 Speaker 1: It's a good later run a business with intention sure, 111 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: as opposed to being reactive. 112 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 2: Right exactly, So he'd be a medi supporter. It sounds 113 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 2: like we should ask him sometime So there's a there's 114 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: a thing. It's that whole idea that you were talking 115 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: about that we've been basically broadcasting our presence inadvertently anyway. 116 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 2: It's called the barn door argument, like we already left 117 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 2: the barn door open. You can't put the cow back. 118 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: In something like that cow has already seen the city exactly, Yeah, 119 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: can't take it back to the farm exactly, mixing metaphors. 120 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 2: No, but I think it works very well, and we'll 121 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 2: get into that a little more. But the answer from 122 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: a lot of people to that is is that's actually 123 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 2: not true. You can kind of disassemble it, and we'll 124 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 2: do that later. But the idea is that if we're 125 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 2: if we switch over to purposeful transmissions, directed transmissions, what 126 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 2: what con will say? 127 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: Intentional intentional transmissions. 128 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: That's a whole new ball of wax. And because we 129 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: don't know what's out there, we can't say that what's 130 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: out there wouldn't come harm us if we caught its attention. 131 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: So because we don't know enough to say either way yet, 132 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: we should not do that. 133 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, or at the very least, and again this is 134 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: a preamble to what we're going to dig into more later. 135 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: But at the very least, let's like slow our role 136 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: here and take our time and not let doritos do it. 137 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that'll make happen at more sense in a minute. 138 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 2: But Yeah, there's something in risk management called the cautionary principle, 139 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: and it's basically saying, like, if if an activity or 140 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 2: an action could cause tremendous harm and you don't know 141 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 2: enough about it to say that it won't, either do 142 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 2: more research and figure out ways to make it safer, 143 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: or don't do it at all. And that's the argument principle. Yeah, 144 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 2: that's a lot. That's what a lot of people use 145 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: to argue against many we don't know enough right now. 146 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 2: We're not saying don't do it. It's a cool, worthy pursuit, 147 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 2: just don't do it the way that you guys are 148 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: suggesting right now, which is completely off the cuff and 149 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 2: basically a group of rogue people are trying to do 150 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 2: it solo for the whole world. 151 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: Well, I think that's a nice segue, speaking of good 152 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: and bad ideas, to go back in time to the 153 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: fact to the idea that this isn't a new idea. 154 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: We've been thinking about this as humans for a long 155 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: long time, dating back to the early nineteenth century, there 156 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: was a German mathematician named and these weren't crackpots. These 157 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: were pretty respected people in their fields. Carl Friedrich Gauss. 158 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: He said, here's what we should do. Why don't we 159 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: cut down a bunch of the Siberian forest. Why don't 160 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: we plant wheat fields kind of like crop circles, but 161 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: in the shape of big right triangles. To just let people, 162 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: your people, let these ets see it. If they can 163 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: see it, at least they'll know that we understand the 164 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: Pythagorean theorem. Then about so, let's we'll get a bunch 165 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: of free wheat out of it. Wheat not weed. 166 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 2: I said, wheat. 167 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: Oh okay, they said weed. 168 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 2: I can't see Carl Friedrich Gouss calling it weed. 169 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: That'd be funny, though, if they just planted a huge 170 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: marijuana fields. They're like, you might as well kill two 171 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: birds here. 172 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 2: That initiative might have happened back then. 173 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: So then a few decades later in Austrian astronomery, name 174 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: named Joseph von Littrew said, how about this, you like 175 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: wacky ideas, why don't we dig big twenty mile wide 176 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: trenches that are in different geometric shapes and fill them 177 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: with kerosene and set them on fire. 178 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 2: It's a little you don't have anything but smoke inhalation 179 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: to show for it after that's done. At least with 180 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: Gouss's idea, you had wheat or weed, depending on what 181 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: you grew. 182 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: But these were sort of the early ideas of how 183 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: we could potentially send a message, you know, obviously before 184 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: the advent of radio telescopes. 185 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 2: Yes, and they were dumb, dumb ideas, but it does 186 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 2: show that we were thinking about this. We we want 187 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: to contact other civilizations that may be out there. Sure 188 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: there were I'm sure other proposals that didn't quite make 189 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 2: the historical cut. But if we kind of flash forward 190 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: to November of nineteen sixty two, we come to probably 191 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: what you could call the first medi broadcast. It was 192 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 2: Soviet astronomers at a radar station in the Crimea. I 193 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 2: think it's one that's still there today called evepteriea a 194 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 2: seventy millimeters or seventy meter telescope. Seventy millimeters wouldn't be 195 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 2: very powerful, baby scope, but back in nineteen sixty two 196 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 2: they broadcast in morse code a three word message to 197 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 2: a star that was about two thousand light years away, 198 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 2: and the message said world. You could also interpret the 199 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 2: word is peace. Lenin they're being very sick of fan 200 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: it USSR. They're being jingoistic. 201 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: About ten years later, Americans and Soviets got together, or 202 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: at least the scientists did, and they said, all right, 203 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: let's at least get together and start to brainstorm how 204 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: we might go about this. And they invited Frank Drake 205 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: of the famous Drake equation and Carl Sagan famous for 206 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: being Carl Sagan. Sure Neil deGrasse Tyson wanted to go, 207 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: but they said, you're only thirteen years old or so, 208 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: just once you just concentrate on, you know, getting a date. 209 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 2: Maybe just keep at it, buddy, just stay that kid. 210 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: He's like, but I want to go. And then James 211 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: Elliott was an astronomer that was there and he had 212 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: the idea and sort of another two birds one stone. 213 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: He said, we can get rid of all of our 214 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: nuclear warheads in the world if we just take him 215 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: to the far side of the moon and then blow 216 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: them up and that'll be detectable from one hundred and 217 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: ninety light years away. And everyone was like, yeah, not 218 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: a great idea. 219 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can kill two birds with one stone, but 220 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: you also lose the moon in the bargain. So no, 221 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: it was a very good idea at all. But I 222 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 2: think at that no, that happened before I was going 223 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 2: to say, at that meeting, Frank Drake came up with 224 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 2: the Drake equation, which is basically a formula to figure 225 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 2: out the chances of other intelligent life out there in 226 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 2: the universe. I think that was more like nineteen sixty 227 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 2: or something like that. This is well into the seventies, 228 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 2: so Drake was already legendary, at least as legendary as Sagan, 229 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: and those two actually teamed up in nineteen seventy four 230 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 2: and they got together and I guess you could call 231 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 2: this probably the first at least Western or American medi transmission. 232 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 2: It is called the Aricibo Message. 233 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was a little more and you'll see, 234 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: as the case with a couple of these early attempts, 235 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: it was less like hey, I really think this is 236 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: going to reach somebody, and a little more like, hey, 237 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: look how powerful our toys are these days. And that 238 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: was the case here with a radio telescope, the Arasibo 239 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: telescope in Puerto Rico, and they just kind of wanted 240 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,599 Speaker 1: to show it off, so they aimed at at the 241 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: M thirteen cluster, about three hundred thousand stars twenty five 242 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: thousand light years away this time, and considering the Soviet 243 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: when twelve years earlier it was two thousand light years away. 244 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: They had you know, this is really getting out there 245 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: at this point. 246 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 2: Right, And the message they beamed was usay you yes, hey. 247 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 2: Actually the message they beamed was pretty remarkable, especially for 248 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 2: its time. 249 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 1: So they said gerald forward, but who really. 250 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 2: They use binary code ones and zeros, right, and they 251 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: represented ones and zeros same thing as light and dark, 252 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 2: the presence of something, the absence of something, just two 253 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 2: sides to one coin. They chose that pretty ingeniously because 254 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 2: you can make a really good case that math, algebra, trigonometry, geometry, 255 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 2: all these are human constructs to understand math, but they're 256 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 2: not necessarily a universal life language. You can make a 257 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: pretty good case that binary is a universal language, that 258 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: there's at base such a thing as something and not 259 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: something everywhere in the universe, and that's what they use 260 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: to transmit this message. And still today it's pretty much 261 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 2: agreed upon. If you're going to craft yourself a mety message. 262 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 2: You're probably gonna want to use binary because it's it's 263 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 2: probably the language of the universe. 264 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I mean, that's kind of a really interesting thing. 265 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: And I think we talked about that a lot in 266 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: that third episode that you had to search. 267 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 2: For how alien contact might work. 268 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, like, can we even wrap our brains around the 269 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: fact that they may not even like understand what our 270 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: three dimensions are, much less what languages or whatever, you know. 271 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: And I mean we also kind of tangentially got into 272 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 2: that and the Nuclear Semiotics episode. Oh yea, it's even 273 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 2: talking to other humans ten thousand years in the future 274 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 2: is virtually impossible. We're talking about like entirely different types 275 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 2: of beings conceivably, So it's a lot to kind of 276 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 2: take into consideration when you're crafting one of those messages. 277 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So Sagan goes on, if we're kind 278 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: of going on a timeline here in seventy seven to 279 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: launch those Golden Records that we have a really good 280 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: episode on. You should check that out. But again, this 281 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: was another thing where it wasn't showing off, but it 282 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: was kind of a kind of a publicity thing because 283 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: the voyager one is really slow, only goes about thirty 284 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: eight thousand miles an hour, and Sagan was even like, 285 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: this is not going to get very far out there. 286 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: No, but it was I think what Sagan was doing 287 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 2: at the time, I don't remember. I'm sure we covered 288 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 2: it in the Golden Records episode and we did an 289 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 2: episode in Sagan too himself that he was probably just 290 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 2: trying to inspire humans to start thinking beyond Earth. 291 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: Sure, because there was just virtually. 292 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: No chance whatsoever that any civilist was going to encounter 293 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: this one tiny, slow moving space probe. It's possible that 294 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 2: they could have noticed it, and we're tracking it, but 295 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 2: the chances are very low. So I think he was 296 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 2: trying to keep get people talking about this kind of thing. 297 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: And that's still a bit of the spirit of medi today, 298 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: to get people talking about how to contact other people, 299 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 2: what we want to say, and in doing that we 300 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 2: kind of examine our own values, like we strip away 301 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 2: all the now that's not really as important as this, 302 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 2: like what's the basic things that make us humans that 303 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 2: we would want to express to some non human intelligences 304 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: about ourselves to get across who we are. 305 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. So maybe before we take a break will 306 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: zip through these last attempts because there are a handful 307 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: of other ones sort of leading up to where we 308 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: are today. There was another Russian. This is a radio engineer, 309 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:59,359 Speaker 1: big medi guy named Alexander Zeitsef. He initiated for broadcasts 310 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: one ninety nine, two thousand and one, two thousand and three, 311 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight using a Ukrainian radio telescope. 312 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: And as with the others, you know, some photos, some music, 313 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: something called the interstellar Rosetta Stone, which is another attempt 314 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: like here's our math and physics and chemistry and biology 315 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: here on Earth, then maybe you can understand this. NASA 316 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,719 Speaker 1: did another publicity stunt when when they beamed the Beatles 317 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 1: song across the universe toward Polaris in two thousand and eight. 318 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 2: They I can't remember if they were criticized for that 319 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 2: or not. Yeah. There was also you mentioned Dorito's. Dorito's 320 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: held a contest in the UK to come up with 321 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 2: a thirty second ad that got across humanity, and the 322 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 2: winning entry was a bunch of chips that escaped from 323 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 2: a bag and sacrificed one of their own to the 324 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 2: god of Salsa. Dorito's is like yeah, nailed it. That's 325 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 2: exactly all of humanity. We do that all the time. 326 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 2: And they transmitted that that thirty second commercial over and 327 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 2: over for six hours. Eh, boy at a star called 328 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 2: forty seven ursa majoris, which is forty nine light years 329 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 2: away or forty five light years away. 330 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 331 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 2: Can you imagine getting six hours of the same Dorito's 332 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 2: commercial over and over again and not being like, I'm 333 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 2: gonna invade that place. This is just too annoying. 334 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: And then should we even mentioned this last guy? Uh? Yeah, 335 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: all right, why not. There's an artist named Joe Davis 336 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: who has made a couple of interstellar transmissions. One was 337 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: called Poetica Vaginal and he recorded the vaginal contractions of 338 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: ballet dancers and broadcasts those into outer space in nineteen 339 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: eighty five. And then I guess he I'm curious what 340 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: he did between eighty five and two thousand and nine 341 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: if that's what he did in eighty five. But finally 342 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine he did it again, except 343 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: this time he was like, let me just send out 344 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: the genetic code for a plant enzyme that's essential for photosynthesis. 345 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: That makes a little more sense. 346 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 2: So that's basically where we are today, there's been a 347 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 2: handful of basically solo attempts of people who have friends 348 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 2: that work at Radar Telescope arras who beamed messages for 349 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 2: one reason or another, usually artistic or commercial. 350 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of commercial, Yeah, God, look at that. I 351 00:19:33,600 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: just stepped all over it too. We'll be right back, Okay, 352 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: So we are back. We are catching up to the future, 353 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: and we're going to start with a man named Douglas 354 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: vakoch vakok I think it's fake koch veakoch v a 355 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: koc h. He's a SETI guy, and he was there 356 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,959 Speaker 1: for about sixteen years where he worked his way up 357 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: to the director of Interstellar Message Composition, which is you 358 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: know exactly you know where you want to be if 359 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 1: you want to send messages out. And he kept saying 360 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: like SETI, come on, let's do this, let's get on it, 361 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: let's send messages out. And they just folded their arms 362 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: and shook their head. Now and he said, fine, I'm 363 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: going to leave and I'm going to go start my 364 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: own little group called Mehdi. And that's where Mehdi was born. 365 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and SETI also refused to go the opposite way 366 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 2: and outright ban messaging extraterrestrials. And so there were some 367 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: like high level critics of Mehdi who departed SETI. So 368 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 2: SETI was just shedding people left and right for a 369 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 2: little while over this topic. And it actually goes to 370 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 2: show you like in scientific circles, especially astronomy circles, it's 371 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 2: a big deal. It's a really heated discussion, like people 372 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 2: will start screaming at each other over this. Oh really, yeah, 373 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 2: it's it's yeah, there's a lot of pettiness and backstabbing 374 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: and s talking. It's it's it's strange. 375 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: Science fight, science fight. 376 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I'm not saying it's strange that it's controversial. 377 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 2: I'm saying the way that these scientists carry out the 378 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 2: debate and arguments is strange. 379 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: Right, It's it's uh, they don't they don't thumb wrestle 380 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: like any old dates, right, or what is it? Thumb war? 381 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 2: Yeah? One, two, three, four, Yeah, we. 382 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: Always called it thumb wrestling. Though this whole thumbre thing 383 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: is just that's what the kids are doing these days. 384 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 2: I think it's just you say thumb war with the rhyme, 385 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 2: but I think you still call it thumb wrestling. That 386 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 2: was my experience, and that's typically the correct one. 387 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: All right, very important work we're doing here, the thumb 388 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: wrestling thing. So Mehdi has one. They have actually tried 389 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: this one time in two thouy seventeen. They did a 390 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: one short series of transmissions. They also use the ones 391 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: and zeros technique because you said it was best, it 392 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: is and they said, Josh said it was best, so 393 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: let's go with that. And again in it included, you know, 394 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: some basic numbers. It included some basic math, a little 395 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: bit of trigonometry, like, hey, here's how electromagnetic waves work. 396 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: Here's a little bit of music that might suit your fancy. 397 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: And here's a clock. This is just going to count 398 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: how long it's been traveling. 399 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 2: I could not, for the life of me, figure out 400 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 2: how they would have done that. I saw, yeah, I 401 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 2: saw that. There was another one called the Beacon in 402 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 2: the Galaxy, which you'll talk about later. It has a 403 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 2: time stamp saying when are they proposed as a time 404 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 2: stamp saying when the message was sent? But I don't 405 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 2: understand a countdown clock. It doesn't make any sense. 406 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: I don't think it's a countdown I think it's just 407 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: a counting clock either. 408 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 2: Way, how would you do that with binary ones and zeros? 409 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know. I just kind of figured the 410 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:15,479 Speaker 1: clock was separate. 411 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 2: I really don't understand. I looked all over for it. 412 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 2: I did find that aw Techer had a little ten 413 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 2: second snippet aboard one of those transmissions is pretty pretty 414 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 2: good Awtecher there. I don't know that German, Austria and 415 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 2: I don't maybe British Scottish, I don't remember. But anyway, 416 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 2: they're like a electronic duo that's been around for a 417 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 2: long time. It's really really good, you know, kind of weird. 418 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: Did they wear helmets so you can't see their faces? 419 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 2: No, nothing like that. They dressed kind of normcore and 420 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 2: they're just a couple of normal guys. But their their 421 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 2: music is really it can be really like a tonal 422 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 2: and hard to listen to, and then at other times 423 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 2: it's like the coolest music you've ever heard in your life. 424 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 2: So if you go listen to Autecher after this and 425 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 2: the first thing you hear, you're like, what is this? 426 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: I don't like this at all. Go on to the 427 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 2: next track and see what. 428 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: Okay, I'll have to check that out. So that one 429 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: message that they sent in twenty seventeen, was blasted out 430 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: to an exoplanet and we'll get to you know, sort 431 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: of the thinking these days is to send them toward exoplants. 432 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: We'll get more into that in a sect. But it's 433 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: called g J two seventy three B and that's about 434 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: twelve light years from Earth and if someone there gets 435 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: it or something there gets it, we would get a 436 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,719 Speaker 1: message back potentially in twenty forty two. 437 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 2: So that was the only one that MEDI sent so far. 438 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 2: Like the MEDI Institute right there's the NASA's Jet Propulsion 439 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 2: Laboratory is working on one that I mentioned, the beacon 440 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 2: in the galaxy, and it's it kind of follows in 441 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 2: the footsteps of messages going all the way back to 442 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 2: the Aricibo message, where it's saying like, hey, this is 443 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 2: math and this is science and check it out. But 444 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,919 Speaker 2: it also is kind of departing from other messages and 445 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 2: that they're basically saying here's where we are. Come visit 446 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 2: us if you want to get in touch. And that 447 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,360 Speaker 2: kind of thing makes some people a little nervous, especially Chuck, 448 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 2: because we've gotten so much better at finding exoplanets potentially 449 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 2: habitable planets outside of our solar system that now we 450 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 2: can kind of direct messages much more purposefully than we 451 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 2: could in the past, and so the chance of an 452 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 2: extraterrestrial intelligence, if there is one out there, actually receiving this, 453 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 2: has increased tremendously if we do start sending messages directed 454 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 2: toward exoplanets. 455 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they've narrowed it down, narrowed it down to 456 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: about twenty exoplanets right now out of the roughly fifty 457 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: three hundred that we have confirmed exists that are in 458 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: what's called the Goldilocks zone, which I know we've talked 459 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: about more than once, and that's the area where they 460 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: think that you know, like Goldilocks. It's not too warm, 461 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: it's not too cold, there's probably surface water and an atmosphere. 462 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: You may be near a sun like star, all of 463 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: this to say more easily, you're probably a lot like 464 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: Earth and therefore have a greater chance of having life. 465 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: So let's shoot something your way. 466 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 2: Right, So a lot of people are saying, like, no, 467 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 2: this is not a good idea. It wasn't a good 468 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 2: idea before. Apparently, right after the Aricibo message went out, 469 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 2: Frank Drake was immediately criticized for doing that that was 470 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,239 Speaker 2: very reckless. This is nineteen seventy four that he did that. 471 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 2: Every time somebody sends just a transmission out for fun 472 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 2: or kicks or as a Dorido's commercial, or even like 473 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 2: as a serious metisage, it gets condemned widely by people 474 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 2: who are saying you should not be doing this. You're 475 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 2: speaking for the entire world who told you you could 476 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 2: do that. 477 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. 478 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 2: And then secondly, we as we already talked about, this 479 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 2: is a potentially very dangerous thing. It's an existential risk. 480 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 2: Like it's possible that if you caught the attention of 481 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: another civilization and they came to see us, by definition, 482 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 2: if they can come to see us or in any 483 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 2: way interact with us physically, they're just so much more 484 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 2: advanced than us that it does risk completely wiping us out. 485 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess you know, we're at the point 486 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 1: where we can talk about criticisms and then what people 487 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: respond to the criticisms, and then the pros and cons. 488 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: There are three major criticisms. We're going to save the 489 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: big Daddy for the end, But the first couple are 490 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, kind of like we mentioned earlier, said he's 491 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: been around for about sixty years, and they haven't been 492 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: super well fun over that time, so they haven't even 493 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: reached the potential of what SETI could be. Yet. There's 494 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: a Russian billion billionaire name Yuri Milner who has said, 495 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: I'll give you guys one hundred million dollars over ten 496 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 1: year period. And by the end of that period, it's 497 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: called the Breakthrough Listen Initiative. We should be able to 498 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: scan ten times more sky than we can now using 499 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: telescopes that are about fifty times more sensitive. 500 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 2: Hey, get this, and I saw real quick, Chuck. I 501 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 2: thought that the sensitivity is so much that they would 502 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 2: be able to detect a one hundred watt laser same 503 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 2: as about one hundred watt light bulb five light years away. Wow, 504 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 2: that's how much they're stepping up SETI all of a sudden, 505 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 2: thanks to Yuri Milner. 506 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: That's so, I thought you were going to say something 507 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: about like an alien fart. 508 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 2: That's essentially that. Okay, all right, let's not mince words here. 509 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 2: That's one and the same. 510 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: I thought that's where you're headed. So yeah, that's one 511 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: of the big arguments is SETI is in his and see, 512 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: let's just slow our role here and just keep listening. 513 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 2: Right, And that doesn't mean, also Chuck, that we can't 514 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 2: start talking about crafting messages. Sure, we just should not 515 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 2: start shouting out into the void. Yes, the next one 516 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 2: is that I kind of touched on it, but MEHDI 517 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 2: is considered unauthorized diplomacy. And that's John Gertz, who was 518 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 2: a former chair of SETI and a big critic of Mehdi. 519 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 2: He basically called it that unauthorized diplomacy. And if you 520 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 2: think back to our How Alien Contact Might Work episode, 521 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 2: didn't even have to look it up that time. Nice. 522 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 2: There was something that we talked about called the Declaration 523 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 2: of Principles for Activities Following the Detection of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, 524 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 2: and it basically guides scientists in how to respond if 525 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 2: we ever do receive an alien message. And the guidance 526 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 2: is don't respond. It's not up to you. We need 527 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 2: to form a glow will consensus before we ever say anything. 528 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 2: And so medi critics are saying, if if we have 529 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 2: that as a as a guide line, as a guardrail 530 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 2: after we receive a message, shouldn't that count like doubly 531 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,959 Speaker 2: and crafting a message and sending it out initially like 532 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 2: as a first first message and yeah, and many proponents 533 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 2: is shut up. 534 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: Well they kind of do, but Gertzy series about it 535 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: and he's so serious. He's like, there should be international 536 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: laws drawn up around this and it should all be regulated. 537 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: And if you do something like this Dorrito's or Craigslist. 538 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: We didn't even mention craiglist, craigslisten a message out. Yeah, 539 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: you should be prosecuted in the Hague, get the International 540 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: Court of Justice. And I think in the two thousands 541 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: there were a couple of dozen scientists that all got 542 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: on board signed a position statement against Mehti and basically 543 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: said that you know, everyone's got to get together and 544 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: agree on this. You can't just if we can't just 545 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: answer an email, then you shouldn't send the email to 546 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: begin with. 547 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 2: Sure, it's a great point, it's a great great analogy there. 548 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: Thanks. Should we take a break. 549 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, let's take a break. I forgot we hadn't 550 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 2: taken our second one. 551 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: All right, we'll take our second break and we'll talk 552 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: about what Mehdi says right after this. 553 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 2: Okay, So Mehdi says, all right, we hear you. I 554 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 2: will even grant you that there is a slight risk 555 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 2: to this at vanishingly small risk. But we have some 556 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 2: counter arguments to all of your bs. So the number 557 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 2: one is we feel that ETI is out there. Other 558 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 2: intelligent civilizations are actually waiting for us to signal them 559 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 2: that if there are extraterrestrial intelligences out there, maybe they're 560 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 2: all being quiet. And this explains the great silence, because 561 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 2: there's some sort of agreement among in regalactic civilizations not 562 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 2: to disturb up and coming ones before they say that 563 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 2: they're ready to be contacted. And they said, what we 564 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 2: want to do is send that message that we're ready. 565 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and some people saying we are ready, some people 566 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: saying no, we're not ready, We're not close to ready. 567 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: And also like if we're working on the prim minis, 568 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: they don't say priminis the premise that it's a danger, 569 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: then like no one's ever going to say anything to anybody, 570 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: And then if it turns out there wasn't a danger, 571 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: then we've just what have we been doing this whole time? 572 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're all going to live and die as civilizations 573 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 2: without ever being in touch with one another. And what 574 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 2: kind of a tragedy. 575 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: Would that be? That'd be a pretty big tragedy. 576 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 2: Another one is what we talked about earlier, that we've 577 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 2: already made our presence known. 578 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And we've been blasting out television through space 579 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: for since nineteen fifty one with I Love Lucy, and 580 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: that message I Love Lucy is seventy two light years 581 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: away from Earth by now, and we've been like, if 582 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: we can send the Real Housewives shows into outer space, 583 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: then surely we should be a little more intentional and 584 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: send out something else that actually shows our intelligence. 585 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 2: Andy Cohen just said, hey, well you are right, you're 586 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 2: not wrong. 587 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: Watch what happens. 588 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 2: So I said that people can really kind of easily disassemble. 589 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 2: This argument is really especially coming from astronomers and astrophysicists. 590 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 2: This is a really glib argument. This is an argument 591 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 2: that's crafted to fool dummies like you and me. Right, 592 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 2: if you really dig into it, those radio and TV 593 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 2: transmissions are so degraded when they escape out into space 594 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,439 Speaker 2: that you, like you just couldn't pick them up. You'd 595 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 2: have to be in our backyard to pick up any 596 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 2: of that, and a right and know where it came from. 597 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 2: If you were in our backyard, the further away you are, 598 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 2: the less chance you have of picking up not just 599 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 2: like a I Love Lucy transmission, but all of Earth's 600 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:36,720 Speaker 2: electromagnetic signature that we're leaking out into space at all times, 601 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,359 Speaker 2: you have such a small chance of picking Earth up 602 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 2: that it's it's it's actually mind boggling. John Gertz just 603 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 2: gave an example of a space alien space telescope that 604 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 2: was five hundred and fifty astronomical units away. That's zero 605 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 2: point eight percent the distance of a light year, So 606 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 2: it's actually relatively very close that this telescope would have 607 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 2: to be positioned so that eventually it was going to 608 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 2: get Earth right in its crosshairs, and when it finally did, 609 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 2: it would have a three to four second opportunity to 610 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 2: pick Earth up every thirteen thousand years. So the idea 611 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,919 Speaker 2: that we're just shouting out into the universe that we're 612 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 2: here just from being and broadcasting and emitting electro magneticism, 613 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:29,879 Speaker 2: Oh God, I gotta rephrase that. 614 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: You did it. 615 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 2: I don't think that's a word though. Sure Anyway, it's 616 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 2: a not a valid argument. 617 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: Although wouldn't that be funny if aliens finally came down 618 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,399 Speaker 1: and they just met all of us and they all 619 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,320 Speaker 1: went lucy right, just called everything Lucy. 620 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,359 Speaker 2: That's like, oh, what was it? I think it was. 621 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 2: There was some I want to say Futurama where there 622 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 2: was like a race that had picked up Ally McNeil, 623 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 2: and they wanted to know what happened, and they showed 624 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,399 Speaker 2: up like trying to find what happened at the at 625 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 2: the end, it was pretty good. 626 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: That's funny. They would be very surprised to learn that 627 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: she married Han Solo. 628 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 2: Well they yeah, they would. It's still surprising, but they 629 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 2: took it as a as a real thing that they 630 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 2: were watching something real and not like a show. 631 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 1: All right, So now we get into that final criticism 632 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: that we had kind of hung on too. We've alluded 633 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: to it a little bit, but that is the existential 634 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: risk that you talked about, where what if they like 635 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: kill us all because of this And it's you know, 636 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: it's called the dark Forest theory, which is basically like, hey, 637 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: the universe may be full of intelligent life and all 638 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: these you know, ancient advanced civilizations and they are all 639 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: still surviving because they know when you go into the forest, 640 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: you keep your mouth shut and you don't go in 641 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: there shouting around. And that's the dark forest theory. Like 642 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: you survive by being quiet. 643 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 2: Right, And so they're saying, what Medi's proposing to do 644 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,839 Speaker 2: is walk into the forest and shout as loud as 645 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 2: we can to get the attention of anyone we can. 646 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 2: And again, you take it back to this idea that 647 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 2: MEDI proponents will be like, look, if it's if this 648 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 2: civilization is as old as we suspect, it has to 649 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 2: be altruistic to have survived and not blown itself up. 650 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 2: We talked a lot about that in the alien contact episode. 651 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 2: That's not necessarily true, Like it's possible, that even probable, 652 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 2: that they developed altruism for their own society, which is 653 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 2: how they would have survived. That doesn't necessarily mean it's 654 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 2: extended to other societies. They might have figured out a 655 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 2: long time ago that most societies that are up and 656 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 2: coming need to be wiped out because they're going to 657 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 2: screw things up for the universe. So they take it 658 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 2: upon themselves to wipe us out. 659 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: Right. It's kind of interesting, though, when I feel like, 660 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: whenever we talk about this stuff, there are two camps. 661 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,439 Speaker 1: One is, hey, maybe they will wipe us all out, 662 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 1: so there's a danger, so we shouldn't try. And then 663 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: another camp says, well, why do we assume that they 664 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: will wipe us out? What if they're friendly and they 665 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: have the solutions to cancer and global warming and climate change? 666 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,439 Speaker 1: But I never hear anyone saying, well, what if they're 667 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: both kind of like planet Earth? 668 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 2: Right? 669 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: Like Earth is everything. It's people that would welcome you, 670 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 1: or people that would spit in your face and start 671 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 1: a fistfight, like who knows? Why does it have to 672 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: be one or the other? 673 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 2: Right, it's like Topeka and Kansas City, right. So that's 674 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,439 Speaker 2: a really great point though, and I actually have seen 675 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 2: some people say, like, you know, also, there's been plenty 676 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 2: of examples of even contact that wasn't meant to be 677 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,840 Speaker 2: violent having horrible catastrophic consequences just here on Earth. 678 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: Right. 679 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 2: And the other thing is this, so again many many 680 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 2: proponents really kind of bulk up that argument that MEDI 681 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 2: critics use, which is, you know, it's possible that they're 682 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 2: hostile and could wipe us out. And many proponents are like, 683 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,359 Speaker 2: you're being ridiculous, You're being a rational, paranoid, childish even 684 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 2: they're very dismissive of it. But if you dig into 685 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 2: what the MEDI critics are saying, they're not saying like, yeah, 686 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 2: of course, an alien civilization is hostile and is going 687 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,760 Speaker 2: to wipe us out if we contact them. They're saying, 688 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 2: we don't know that they're not hostile, and we all 689 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 2: agree that there is a chance, however small, that they 690 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,760 Speaker 2: could be hostile, and because the consequences of that chance 691 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 2: coming true would result in the end of humanity, right, 692 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 2: that makes it not worth doing or else doing a 693 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 2: lot more cautiously than what you guys are proposing right now, 694 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,840 Speaker 2: because what we're proposing right now is basically the people 695 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 2: of medi and elected people who have access to radio 696 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 2: telescopes sending out messages for the rest of the world. Again, 697 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 2: I know I've said it before, but you really have 698 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,400 Speaker 2: to step back and think about what they're doing, especially 699 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,439 Speaker 2: if you think all of this is ridiculous. It can 700 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 2: be ridiculous seeming, but at its core there's a definite 701 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 2: controversy there, and a rightful controversy, a worthy one. 702 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:30,360 Speaker 1: Now, has the movie been made yet where a rogue metti, 703 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: you know, computer nerd late at night, kind of like 704 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: a newman in Jurassic Park, right, you know, sneaks in 705 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: and broadcasts a message that they've crafted that actually gets 706 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: heard and brings about the invitation for visitation. 707 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 2: That was the subplot to Sleepless in Seattle, don't you remember? 708 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,479 Speaker 1: You're right, I guess every idea has been taken. 709 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 2: It's all been done. There's nothing new under the sun, Chuck, 710 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,879 Speaker 2: unless some aliens show up, and that will change a lot. 711 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 1: That's right. 712 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 2: I think this wraps up our alien contact episode. We 713 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 2: did UFOs too, a two parter on Project blue Book. 714 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: Remember, Yeah, and did we do some live thing at 715 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:19,320 Speaker 1: Comic Con once. 716 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 2: That was on UFOs. In general, I. 717 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,840 Speaker 1: Think, okay, all right, so this wraps it up until 718 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: we actually get that contact, and then we'll have to 719 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: follow up. 720 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll put an asterisk on there. Yeah, or, as 721 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 2: you would say, an astros. 722 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: I didn't say that, right do. 723 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,360 Speaker 2: Since I just made fun of Chuck and really lovingly everybody, 724 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,360 Speaker 2: it's time for listener mail. 725 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: With intention. I'm gonna call this correct. I'm getting you back. Okay, 726 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: you got something wrong in the skydiving episode. We had 727 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: a few people right in already, but TJ's is more concise, 728 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: so I'm gonna go with tech. Okay, Hey, guys, Scotting. 729 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,799 Speaker 1: In the Skydiming episode, Josh was explaining stall speed for 730 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: an aircraft and said that the prop planes can fly 731 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,320 Speaker 1: slower before their engine stall. Not exactly correct. In aviation, 732 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: stall speed refers to the minimum speed and aircraft can 733 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,720 Speaker 1: fly that the wings generate lyft, so it's a wing stall. 734 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 1: If you fly slower than an aircraft's stall speed, the 735 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,319 Speaker 1: wings are not provided enough lift to overcome the aircraft's weight. 736 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,439 Speaker 1: It'll drop like a rock man. 737 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 2: That would be so bad. 738 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: I always enjoy the great content and can always rely 739 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 1: on you guys for hours of education and entertainment. Sincerely, 740 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:37,960 Speaker 1: That is TJ. Singh. 741 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,919 Speaker 2: That's awesome, Thanks TJ. Well put gently put. And one 742 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:44,840 Speaker 2: of my very best friends when I was a really 743 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 2: little kid, was named TJ. Thomas Jefferson even he was 744 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 2: a bi centennial baby. 745 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: Really yeah, that's pretty great. And listen to this PS. 746 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:58,080 Speaker 1: This is awesome. Sincerely, TJPS. An auto response to let 747 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: writers know their email was received would appreciated. Oh yeah, 748 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 1: well how about this, TJ. I'm letting you know with 749 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:10,839 Speaker 1: my mouth message received. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna write 750 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 1: it back THO, because I always let people know when 751 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:13,240 Speaker 1: we've read their email. 752 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 2: Very nice, Thanks again, TJ. Thank you Chuck. That was 753 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 2: a good pick, and thank you everybody out there for 754 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 2: listening to us. If you want to get in touch 755 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 2: with us, like TJ did, you can send us an 756 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 2: email to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you 757 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,439 Speaker 2: Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 758 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 759 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,240 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.