WEBVTT - TechStuff Conjures Up Brian Brushwood 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:08.960 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:18.560 textile from houstuffworks dot com. Well, our guest today is 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:24.840 Brian Brushwood, Magician extraordinaire, critical thinker, skeptic, social engineer, gat 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:29.880 about town like that last one the most. Thank you, Brian, 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.040 Thank you so much for being on our show. Dude, 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:34.720 thank you so much for having me. I don't know, 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:36.600 we've talked about this for months. I'm glad we finally 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.400 made it happen. Yeah, Brushwood and I are, we're like 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:45.520 BFFs from way back. Yeah, we're roomy's. That's true. It's true. 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:50.520 So yeah, Brushwood is a he's he's He's an amazing, 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.320 amazing kind of guy. One of the nicest guys you 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.280 guys could ever meet. I really do mean that, Mr Brushwood. 0:00:56.360 --> 0:01:00.440 You gotta ruin my reputations. Stop this. He's he's also 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.640 a complete jerk. Now, so we wanted to talk today 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.080 about lots of different topics. But before we get started, 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.520 in your own words, can we get sort of a 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:16.640 kind of a minute long or two minute long bio 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.279 of who you are, how you got interested in stage 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:22.040 magic and technology and all that kind of good stuff. Sure, man, 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.440 it's really weird. I'm in a transition phase right now 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:26.720 because if you'd asked me five years ago, the answer 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:28.720 would have been dead simple. I would have told you 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.440 I am a touring stage magician who tours colleges doing 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:35.600 a punk rock magic show with fire eating escapes, mind reading. 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:37.720 I stick and nail and one eye pops out, the 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:40.560 other eye, I break thirty pound breaks over my head. Uh, 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:42.840 And it was and that's that's all I did. But 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:46.360 as I've transitioned, we launched Scam School. I pitched it 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.960 five years ago right around this time, and now it's 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.760 four years strong, two and twenty episodes, and now I'm 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.680 hosting four other podcasts as well. But I'm still doing 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.800 the live stage shows. So my identity, my identity is 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:00.840 kind of in transition right now as I as I 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.480 do more performing in front of the camera instead of 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.520 in front of audiences. And now it's even more complicated since, uh, 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.720 we just launched the Scam School book, which hit number 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.080 one in Canada number three in the US on the 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:15.640 iTunes store on the day of launch. So now I 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:17.800 guess throw author in the mix as well, how about that. 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:22.760 Huge props to you, and that's awesome and uh, you're 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.760 also The Scam School show has also been featured on 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:30.079 Discovery dot Com. Yeah, they apparently it was the awesomest thing, 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:32.880 because I guess Discovery dot Com has been talking with 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.040 Revision three and they were talking about some kind of 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.120 partnership for a while, but since nothing was confirmed, nobody 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.560 at Revision three really told me, because you know, it's 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:41.639 like they didn't want to tell me if there was 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.480 nothing to tell. But I guess within minutes of the 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:48.000 deal being finalized, Discovery dot Com through the first episode 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.400 up under their life section, and so I found out 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.239 about it because somebody on Twitter is like, hey, were 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.079 you just not gonna tell us that you joined Discovery 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.840 dot com? And I'm like, what's take a look? And 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:00.400 sure enough, there it is and it's is to be 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.440 very well received. I'm excited about it. That's fantastic. Yeah, 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.000 And and as a you know, as a friend and fan, 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.200 I was very pleased to see that join our our 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.200 family here, and it was a it was a surprise 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.080 to me as well. I had not I had no 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.400 knowledge of any sort of Revision three work at that point. 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:17.919 But it was very pleased to see you brought on board. 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:21.320 And anytime I can see talented people who who are 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:26.720 good at at at entertaining and informing, that's always a pleasure. Uh. 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.840 So we wanted to talk a little bit today about 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:34.320 the fact that since you have extensive experience being a 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.960 stage magician, uh, that kind of gets your perspective on 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.720 how stage magic has changed over the years and how 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:43.960 the role of technology has sort of played a part 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.000 in that and that, uh, and just get an idea 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.840 of what's important when you're a stage magician. Yeah, absolutely. 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.480 I mean I would say as as far back as 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.600 you look, there's been a very tight relationship between technology 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.800 and magic. And uh, what's the Arthur's C. Clark quote 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.840 for um Childhood's end. He says, any sufficiently advanced technology 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:08.080 is indistinguishable from magic. Yes, one of our favorites. Yeah, no, 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:09.960 and that the magicians love that quote because it makes 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.880 us sound important. But the but you know, you look 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:17.000 back and uh, it seems like every time there's a 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.960 novel new technology, uh, there is a magician to either 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.280 exploit it secretly in a stage show or to make 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.880 it integral to his stage performance. You know you go back. 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.479 You know, you got Jean Eugene Robert Huddon uh doing 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.279 doing bullet catches, you know when and this is in 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:38.120 the nineteenth century when we're still using a musket type rifles. 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:41.280 You got um uh, you know Penn and Teller doing 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.040 doing cell phone tricks, you know. And of course I 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.360 I do an illusion in my stage show now where 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:48.680 I make a ghost appear on everyone's cell phone in 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.840 the audience. And there's something about the novelty of new 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:55.000 technology that that puts a finger in that same part 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:57.800 of the brain that good slot of hand does where 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:00.679 it's just it's just incomprehensible and you can't even understand 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:05.040 how that's possible. That's yeah, that's really cool. And uh, 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.400 you know, not to not to pull back the veil 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:11.120 too much from from the whole magic thing, but go ahead, 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.880 pull it back in the In the biz, uh, you know, 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:20.320 we might refer to certain certain types of technology specifically 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.640 made for stage magic, often referred to as as gimmicks, 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.200 a gimmick that you use in order to pull off 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.880 a trick. And I think it's an interesting thing that 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.320 I see with a lot of people who just start 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:36.760 off in magic, the beginners often, I think, place more 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:41.800 stock in a gimmick than they do necessarily in stage presentation. 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:45.080 And I'm curious as to what your view is on that. 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:47.760 What do you think is the most important tool in 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:52.280 any stage magician's toolbox? Us, Yeah, you nailed it right 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:54.440 on the head. When I first started in magic, I 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.800 was what eighteen years old and wandered into a magic 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.520 shop in Austin, Texas that was run out of the 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.359 garage of one of the local magicians. And since I 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.000 didn't have a car at university, I had to take 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.479 two different busses. It took me a forty five minutes 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.440 just to go the eight miles to get there. And uh, 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:13.800 this guy talked to me for like the three hours straight, 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.320 and I just had my mind blown because I picked 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.400 magic just out of the blue as as a hobby 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.520 to try, and I didn't really know much about it. 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.000 But one of the things he told me that really 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.480 stuck with me is like, when when people first start 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:30.359 doing magic, they always want the self working, no fail gimmicks. 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:32.640 They want they want the tricky deck of cards to 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.320 force someone a card rather than relying on slide of hand, 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.680 because you know, it's a confidence booster, and it's something 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:40.239 that always works. But then there's something kind of guilt 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:42.360 that builds in you and makes you think like, I'm 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:44.200 not really a magician. I should be doing everything with 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:46.240 a real deck of cards. And you learn how to 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:50.040 do these these fancy forces or these flourishes, or you know, 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.320 turn over one card so it looks like a different card. 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.960 And then after a while, once you have that down, 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:56.960 you get lazy and say why am I doing all 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.680 this extra work when the one who notices the difference? 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.400 Then you go back to using gimmicks. Soum, Yeah it is, 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.560 but but but you come out the other side because 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:07.960 it's one of those once you get enough flight time, 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.960 you build an engaging presentation. And I'll tell you that's 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.800 the biggest I don't want to say betrayal. That's the 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.440 biggest confusion that people have. A lot of folks get 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.800 into magic when they're fourteen and hitting puberty because they 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.640 feel powerless and they want a way to get other 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.680 people to be interested in something they're doing, and so 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.720 they follow the script the way it's written, They do 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:32.400 the moves the way it's written, and either they get 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:35.240 stuck in that rut and they become those socially awkward 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:38.320 people who can't relate to other people except with the 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.760 deck of cards in their hand, or they pull through 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.640 it and they realize, wow, it's not really They'll they'll realize, like, 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:46.800 out of everything, the one joke they made up on 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.200 the spot got a bigger reaction than any of the 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.520 prepackaged can jokes that they had before then. And then 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.520 they realized that the magic is just that social lubricant, 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.440 it's just that excuse to start interacting with someone, and 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:01.760 it's really it's your personality that matters way more than anything. 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.560 And you, I mean, there are parts of Pen and 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:08.280 Teller's show that are utterly transparent to anyone who knows 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:10.880 a thing or two about magic. And yet there are 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.480 some of the most important, beautiful routines that they've ever written, 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:19.480 because they speak to something bigger than the trick they're doing. Yeah, 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:23.000 I'm always reminded of their routine of doing the cups 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:27.200 and balls with the transparent cups. Yeah, and even as 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.640 you're watching it, and even as they're explaining how they 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:33.560 do it, doing it so seamlessly and so smoothly, that's 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.800 so clear that they've they've really polished that routine that 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.960 it still feels like magic. Well, I think there's a 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.680 real uh, there's something that we really crave in the 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.760 illusion of being educated. And I say the illusion because 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.560 because by the time that trick, ostensibly the whole purpose 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:53.360 of that routine is for them to teach you how 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.200 to do the cups of balls, because you see it 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:58.760 done with transparent cups. By the time that's over, I 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.920 would I would challenge you to a hundred thousand yen 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.800 that is that a hundred bucks something like that, not 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.840 recreate even one phase of that routine accurately. And likewise, 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:11.720 one of the things people seem to like most of 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.160 my stage show is I begin with this four and 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.440 a half minute illustrated history of fire reading, right explained 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.199 from the earliest references to resistance to fire to uh 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.840 to to the touring uh you know stage performer Richardson 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:28.560 in the sixteen hundreds. I explained the progression of fire reading, 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.040 and everyone's oh, I just so educational. I learned so much, 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.640 and I was like, you cannot repeat back one fact. 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.280 I gave you that entire time. But it's that blend 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.440 of feeling like you're learning while you're seeing something visually 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:44.640 interesting that seems to uh, seems to sit well with people. Excellent. Yeah, um, 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.760 and it's it's interesting to me on this show in 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.200 several different episodes. Uh, and Chris can attest to this 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:53.760 because he had to listen to me do it just 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:58.640 a second ago. I stress the importance of of critical 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:03.000 thinking and really uh, taking taking time to think things through, 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.199 because otherwise you just tend to accept stuff on a 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.280 surface level, and it becomes very easy to get tricked 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.080 into things. This is one of those things that magicians 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.920 that actually can depend upon depending on their their routines. 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.320 But but there does seem to be an interesting relationship 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:20.200 between people who are are who get into stage magic 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:24.959 and people who are advocates for critical thinking. Um. And 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.839 I mean that all that all really began with Houdini. 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.960 You know, Judini was obsessed with trying to contact his 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.719 dead mother and this is at the height of spiritualism 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.880 in uh, you know, early twentieth century. But being a magician, 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.560 he was offended when he went to spiritual mediums and 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.040 saw they were using standard slide of hand tricks. And 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:46.000 yet these people with the straight face we're saying no 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:48.559 I'm contacting the spirit world. He's like, no, you got 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:50.839 that palm, you know, and he would he would call 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:52.559 them out. He was he was kind of he was 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.560 kind of an able about it, you know. Yeah, And 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.120 that tradition continues to this day well well and and 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:02.160 to be honest, nobody was doing it after Houdini until 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.000 James Randy came along and back in the nineteen sixties. 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.320 That started off with with I don't know if it's 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:09.000 started with a hundred dollars out of his own pocket 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:10.760 or a thousand dollars out of his own pocket, but 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.440 he's always offered this, uh, this, this dollar amount challenge 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:18.400 to anyone who can demonstrate any psychic EESP or supernatural 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.640 phenomenon under double blind test conditions. Uh And, and nobody's 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:24.880 gotten anywhere close. And in fact, the challenge is now, 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.040 of course, the world famous million dollar challenge, and it 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:32.040 actually extends to things beyond your typical you know, the 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.800 we typically think of things like being able to move 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.360 something with your mind or prove that dowsing is real, 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.680 but it actually I've seen him extend that to uh, 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:47.040 to technological claims as well. For example, monster, That's where 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:51.559 I was headed beating me there, And I guess it's true. 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.080 I think I've read an article recently saying that a 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.839 wire coat hanger demonstrated the ability to perform just as 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.400 well as a hundred dollar monster cable. Yeah, we, as 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.000 a matter of fact, talked about that on a previous podcast. Yeah, 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:07.200 that's that exact same subject. But which it's interesting to 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.320 think that it's a stage magician, someone who is is 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.640 skilled in the arts of deception, who who comes forward 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.000 as an advocate for this. Then, but then again, you're 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.520 talking about the people who know these tools, because like 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.360 you were saying with Houdini, there, these are the tools 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:23.320 of the trade, and they're seeing it being done not 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:25.640 for entertainment purposes, but to pull the wool over the 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.600 eyes and try and builk people out of money. Well, 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.199 I think, well, go ahead. I was gonna say, in 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.920 a way, the people that that sell paraphernalia like that, 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:39.200 the the high end audio cables that work theoretically just 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.319 as well as a code hanger, they're involved in an 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.160 act of showmanship as well. Oh, certainly showmanship. And also 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:50.320 there's there's certain things, um, when there's a market need 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.679 for something, whether it exists or not, somebody will figure 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:55.280 out a way to fill it. And that's why I 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.960 don't think Marster cables are going anywhere, is because whether 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.200 or not it's true, if you have more money than cents, 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:03.520 you want to believe that there's something better than the 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.079 ten dollar cable, and and Monster is gonna be there 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.000 to say, yes, yes there is, and here it is. 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:12.160 And and the thing that really drives me crazy is 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:16.520 you could actually come into contact with a system that 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:21.959 is measurably through very very finely two instruments, better than 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:27.080 a cheaper system. But to the human ear is indistinguishable, right, 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:30.000 because we're not capable of hearing that well. And and 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:32.480 in fact, uh, there's a man it must have been. 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:34.200 It was over a decade ago that I read in 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.280 Wired magazine. I wish I could remember the name of 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:40.520 the audio engineer that he set up a super calibrated 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.400 sound system at one dance club and people were complaining 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.400 that it just it just wasn't loud. And meanwhile he's 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:47.600 looking at the decibel meter and this thing is like 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.160 almost damaging you're hearing it's so loud. So he goes 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.120 to radio shack and gets a I think it was 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.840 like as in Peter that would that would clip the 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:59.440 highest end, but the the audio queue of hearing the 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.520 high end being clipped made them think that the speakers 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:04.720 were maxed, and even though the volume was actually lower, 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.120 people reported how much more they liked the music, how 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:11.360 much louder it was. That's that now that I don't 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.600 find that hard to believe, but it is. It is 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.480 pretty amazing. It is amazing, I'll tell you, man, it's 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:20.760 amazing to me what what a mystery our own minds are. 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:22.720 And that's one of the things my favorite, one of 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.400 the greatest things I got to do at the University 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.800 of Texas was I was part of this honors program 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:29.880 where they only took a hundred and fifty students each year, 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:33.080 and they'd have over a thousand applicants, but you could take. 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:35.200 You took pretty much what they told you the first 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.360 couple of years, but the last two years you took 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.720 whatever classes were related to your thesis. You had to 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:41.880 have a thesis in order to graduate. And some of 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.280 the students would write their first novel. Some of them 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:47.040 would write these two or three d page biographies on 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.320 obscure figures from history. And I was doing magic on 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.920 the side at this point, and I thought, well, maybe 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:54.840 it would be awesome if I could get away with 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.120 writing a paper on the history of magic, because that 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.400 would be fun, or even better, if I could claim 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.400 that it was my thesis to get a trick published 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.800 in one of these magic journals, so, you know, still 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.360 putting a significant amount of work on myself, but at 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:08.520 least it would be fun and magic related. And when 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.280 I went into pitch my idea to the dean, she said, well, 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.400 what do you want to do for your thesis? And 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.640 I got as far as saying, well, for the last 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:17.520 couple of years, I've been doing magic on the side, 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:19.560 and as I drew in a breath to continue, she 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.920 interrupted saying, and you want to do a magic show 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:27.480 as a creative writing thesis. What a great idea. And 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.920 so as it retrol, I got to take whatever courses 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:32.760 I wanted for the last two years, as long as 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.120 I could justify being related to magic. So I took 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:39.880 courses on you know, you know, on artificial intelligence, on psychology, 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.520 on the history of witchcraft, on pseudoscience and the paranormal. Uh. 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.760 It was, it was amazing. But it was those courses 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:51.360 on brain development that really cemented in my mind what wonderful, 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:55.320 flawed machines we all are. And once you see, once 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:59.080 you spend a few years deceiving people, and even better, 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:03.000 hearing back from people after the fact, having them describe 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.160 to you what they think you did or what they 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:09.280 remember you doing, it is unreal how wrong all of 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.360 our memories are all the time, on everything. And once 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.080 you accept that, I find I find I'm a lot 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.960 happier about everything. I don't argue anymore. Like if I 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.720 remember something happening one way and someone remembers in another way, 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.720 I'm like, whatever, I'm probably we're probably both wrong. Thing 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.720 like that. And likewise, when you look at um, you know, 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:31.560 eye witness testimony, you you you devalue it severely because 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:35.400 you understand that even if they're not intentionally lying to themselves, 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.160 they there's just no way that they can accurately remember anything. 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.600 So you're making me feel a lot more comfortable about 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:43.680 the fact that I offload a lot of my own 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:49.600 mental uh, my my own mental practices onto my technology. Now, oh, 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.120 you should, you should, And in fact I think that, uh, 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.160 we're entering an age where unfortunately, in the legal system 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.000 right now, we still are in a place where, uh, 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.000 where we value I witness testimony far more than we 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.639 should because there's and if you've if you're familiar with 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:09.479 the work of Elizabeth Loftus, uh, it is unreal. They've 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.560 been able to induce false memories and other people by 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:16.280 asking leading questions. There was one story where they took 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:20.920 a young kid named Chris and they laid out five stories. 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:23.040 Four of them were tales that actually happened to him. 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.080 One was a totally made up story about being lost 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.080 at the mall. And they asked a bunch of questions 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.600 about all five and uh and then like two weeks later, 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.639 they said, well, which of these one of these was 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:35.679 a made up story that never happened to you, Chris, 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.160 which one was the one that we made up? And 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.080 he picked an actual story from his past as being 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.040 a made up one because he couldn't believe that he 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.760 wasn't lost at the mall at age five. It's kind 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.159 of like, wasn't there that story about the other? The 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.920 other experiment with the showing an ad a fake ad 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.480 for some popcorn uh to some people during a thing, 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:57.560 and then like a survey, two weeks later, they asked 0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.639 them how the popcorn was but no one in the 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.639 study had actually had any popcorn, but they all remembered 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.320 trying it and then it was delicious because of the ad. 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:09.199 Oh wow, I haven't now that was that was just 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:11.480 I think that was when I heard that. I think 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:13.960 I heard that on Skeptics Guide to the Universe. Um, 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:16.800 that's fantastic. Yeah, And this is why focus groups aren't 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.320 so great for marketing purposes, because the leader often sort 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:22.880 of steers it in the direction of the of what 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.080 the the company that has organized as focus group is 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:29.320 trying to achieve, like oh, hey, look it works right, 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.320 go it? Yeah, which comes That's that's the important of 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.480 double blind experimentation, which we you know, of course they 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.840 do very very well with the with the FDA and 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.359 for for you know, new drugs. When it comes to 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.560 consumer marketing, there's probably not much of a reason to 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:44.720 try that. And for those out there who don't know 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.119 what a double blind test is, all right, So a 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.840 blind test means that the person who's taking the test 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.480 has no knowledge of whether or not they are in 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.480 a control group or the test group. Double blind is 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.280 that the person administering the test also does not know 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.359 if that person if they are ministering a test to 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.320 the control group or to the test group, so that 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:08.320 that it limits the chance that data will be uh 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:13.440 leaked to a test subject and influence his or her results. Yeah. 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:15.879 That one of the earliest cases of that where it's 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:19.560 so important is Michelle. Eugene Chevroule is a French scientist, 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.240 and this is back in the I believe, the nineteenth 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.640 century when dowsing was super popular, and dowsing is, of course, 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:28.560 you know, finding water with a forked stick or holding 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.080 a pendulum over a substance and it swings one way 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:32.880 if it's supposed to be one thing, or swings another 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.520 way if it's another. And when he tried it, he 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:37.320 set out the way he tried it was, of course, 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:39.840 he set out a bowl of mercury, held out the pendulum, 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.480 and that things started swinging like crazy, pulled the mercury 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:45.680 away and it stayed totally still still. He was like, 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:48.399 holy crap, maybe there's something to this, although he didn't 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:54.560 say that because he was French soccer crap. But then 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:56.560 he had it. But but he had the idea. He 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:58.719 had his assistant set up a partition and he just 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:02.040 held out the pen alum and and the assistant would 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.119 either set down an empty bowl or a bowl filled 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.639 with mercury, and once he didn't know which which one 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.560 it was, it didn't do anything. Yeah, I know that 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:12.560 James Randy had suggested a similar test where it would 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:18.800 involve burying UH PBC pipes with water in them, for example, 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:22.080 under a certain area of land, covering it all up, 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:24.320 and then the person ministering the test would have no 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:28.440 idea where the the PBC pipe actually was. They would 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.560 just observe the test subjects as they would walk across, 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:34.679