Speaker 1: Wine down with Janet Kramer, and I heard radio podcast.
Speaker 1: I told you don't read reviews. I say, don't read
Speaker 1: I don't read reviews. But that was a big mistake
Speaker 1: of mine. Yeah, yeah, I like to fill everyone I would. So,
Speaker 1: you know, Caden's at basketball practice last night, and I've
Speaker 1: gone through all my emails, gone through all the social media,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know what, I haven't looked at
Speaker 1: I haven't looked hit any of the comments minus umber
Speaker 1: of them on Instagram about the podcast, which I'm sure
Speaker 1: everyone knows, like this is very out of my comfort zone.
Speaker 1: Like you know, I'm not. This isn't the easiest thing
Speaker 1: for me. Okay, I'm just gonna put that out there
Speaker 1: because I'm just curious. So I go look, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm reading through all the good and bad of all
Speaker 1: of it. I'm like, Catherine has to go. And then
Speaker 1: like another one that's I don't know, one about me
Speaker 1: being judgmental or something, um, and then another one that
Speaker 1: was like I'm sure in real life you're not, but
Speaker 1: like you're her yes person on the podcast, and I'm
Speaker 1: like what, but you know, anyway, it was bad. I
Speaker 1: shouldn't have done it. So then last night, I was
Speaker 1: like in a funk. I was like, these people don't
Speaker 1: like me, right, it sucks. That sucks. I don't know
Speaker 1: how you do it, Like I know, sucks, like you
Speaker 1: don't get it though until it's like actually about like you,
Speaker 1: I know, I see it for you. But then it's
Speaker 1: like dank. So I text her last night I was like,
Speaker 1: don't yeah, don't do that. You're right, like this is
Speaker 1: it was terrible. Well it's some Are you upset? Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not crying. It's amazing. What how someone can say
Speaker 1: something and just like yeah, I'm because I want to
Speaker 1: read things. It's like full on funk mode because it sucks,
Speaker 1: because can you wantally defend yourself to the people that
Speaker 1: say bad things? Oh, I went to see if you
Speaker 1: could reply. You can't reply. Reply, just make sure you
Speaker 1: apply with not your name. I do sometimes reply on
Speaker 1: the Instagram comments like if they have a question or
Speaker 1: it's something like all hearted or whatever. And one of
Speaker 1: them was on the Instagram comments like the yes person, Oh,
Speaker 1: I was so close, but I didn't. I didn't say anything.
Speaker 1: I just backed off. It's fine. I have a question
Speaker 1: like would you say something like would you ever leave
Speaker 1: a review. Have you left a review? I've left good reviews.
Speaker 1: You're not a bad reviewer. I'm not a bad reviewer.
Speaker 1: Could you leave a review about a person? No? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I'm even thinking like old nanny's or babysitters or
Speaker 1: old you know, teachers or old like I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to think of like I would never or even like
Speaker 1: I would never go to Like I don't think who's
Speaker 1: like a celebrity that I would go on. I would
Speaker 1: never leave a night like it would be like you
Speaker 1: need to stop whining, whining, or you need to stop
Speaker 1: oh my god, get over it. It's like who are you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you, who are you to say anything? Who am
Speaker 1: I to say? Like, I don't know what now? Again,
Speaker 1: if you have an issue, what do you listen? Exactly?
Speaker 1: Like its like some of them just in general, were
Speaker 1: like you know, one star or whatever, and it's like
Speaker 1: I've been listening from the beginning and I'm on, I'm like,
Speaker 1: don't listen. Yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I want to say I'm sorry to you
Speaker 1: for what well, because it sucks. It sucks, you know,
Speaker 1: and I mean again, mine was like three things and
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, don't ever look at that again,
Speaker 1: you know, like, but that just sucks. It sucks that
Speaker 1: people think they have the right. And I understand it's
Speaker 1: a review, so I'm one hand. I understand you have
Speaker 1: every right to give a bad review if you want.
Speaker 1: But when people start attacking your character and you know,
Speaker 1: stop the win or whatever they're saying, like, it's just
Speaker 1: it's just to be hurtful in my opinion, and I
Speaker 1: just I don't like it. It It feels aky I do
Speaker 1: at all. I don't think I could do it. I
Speaker 1: think the only way I could do it is if
Speaker 1: I was like helping a business or something, and I
Speaker 1: still would have a hard time doing that, but if
Speaker 1: it was like your business was really being run into
Speaker 1: the ground or something, and I felt like I was helping,
Speaker 1: But no, not not a person. That's like my new
Speaker 1: favorite word thousand twenty two. It feels it I think
Speaker 1: I got it from you? Yeah, yeah, you know, I've
Speaker 1: said it a lot, and then you're sure to do
Speaker 1: say did I get it from her? Did she get
Speaker 1: it from me? I think that's first time I've said it.
Speaker 1: But it does. It feels itchy because it's it's like
Speaker 1: I mean, it's hurtful and it's and I know, you know,
Speaker 1: we the Kardashians put themselves out there, we have put
Speaker 1: them ourselves up. We people put in it's for criticism.
Speaker 1: At the same time, you got to criticize, like you
Speaker 1: you can maybe question why I've done certain things or
Speaker 1: why you know, hey, Catherine, like do all. It's like,
Speaker 1: but how people it's the way that people respond, I
Speaker 1: think is what It's icky. Yeah, how they respond, And
Speaker 1: I don't love that, Like excuse will you put yourself
Speaker 1: out there? I mean I understand it to an extent,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, like everyone's still human and
Speaker 1: it still hurts people, and it's still at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, people are hiding behind their computers and
Speaker 1: they're bullying, and I just don't I don't like it.
Speaker 1: That's like we had this thing happened. So there was
Speaker 1: this woman who I just happened to. Someone had screenshot
Speaker 1: at me and saying, hey, your neighbor is talking crap
Speaker 1: about you. And I'm like, I immediately got read because
Speaker 1: I'm like, my neighbors are my friends, Like you know,
Speaker 1: like what what? So I look and it was on
Speaker 1: the news and there was this girl being like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I live in Jana's neighborhood, and you know, her boyfriend
Speaker 1: moved in, and like it's just really sad what she's
Speaker 1: doing to the kids. And I'm like, first of all,
Speaker 1: I never moved in, hasn't moved in. Yes, he's here
Speaker 1: a lot, but like, no, he has not moved in. Third,
Speaker 1: fourth million, like who who? Like why are you going?
Speaker 1: And that I wasn't even bad, like it was just
Speaker 1: but again like people just putting out like misinformation. And
Speaker 1: then they were all just like talking about like my
Speaker 1: judgment as a mom, and I'm like, you don't go
Speaker 1: after my mom ng like you're not going to judge
Speaker 1: how I am as a mom and what I do
Speaker 1: for my kids every single day. So I have this
Speaker 1: chain with Pamela and like all my o G moms
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood, like Jenny and Molly and and I
Speaker 1: was like, who is this mom? Because there's been some
Speaker 1: new neighbors that moved in, and they are like we'll
Speaker 1: be at your door in five minutes, five minutes with
Speaker 1: stakes and fire, like we will march down there and go.
Speaker 1: We don't talk about people in this neighborhood because there's
Speaker 1: other people that there's a football players or whatever. It's like,
Speaker 1: we don't do that, And I don't want to have
Speaker 1: to feel like I have to be like careful of
Speaker 1: what I do so that they're not running to like
Speaker 1: a news or whatever. So long story short, pamelin the
Speaker 1: detective of all detectives and like you're really good. But
Speaker 1: like Pam goes into like this is this is her
Speaker 1: second cousin, like you know what I mean? Like yeah,
Speaker 1: within like five minutes, she finds out she's not her neighbor,
Speaker 1: she's um, she lives, you know, down the street like
Speaker 1: five miles. Her son is in the same classroom as Jolie.
Speaker 1: So I'm like he did, So I'm we get her
Speaker 1: son's whatever find out and I'm like what do I do?
Speaker 1: Like do I and Jolie was about to have a
Speaker 1: birthday party? I'm like, do I invite the mother to
Speaker 1: the birthday party? And then just on her way out
Speaker 1: in the gift bag like put the screenshot of what
Speaker 1: I know her thing is on the news? Trust me.
Speaker 1: And so then I'm friends with Julie's teacher, So I
Speaker 1: texted her and I was like, hey, gave me the
Speaker 1: low down on like this kid's mom because like this
Speaker 1: is you know, she talked some like smack on whatever,
Speaker 1: and she was like, oh yeah, you know, like like
Speaker 1: invite me to the party. I want to see it
Speaker 1: all go down or whatever. And so I was just
Speaker 1: like what do I do. I'm like or, and Pamela's
Speaker 1: like here's her number. I'm like or. I just call
Speaker 1: her and just be like hey, like I know what
Speaker 1: you said. You don't know me and you're not my neighbor,
Speaker 1: so stop trying to say like you know anything. So
Speaker 1: I called her because I was like I really wanted
Speaker 1: to like do little like the birthday party thinking but
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm too much of a freaking baby, and
Speaker 1: I don't like confrontation. But but it would have been
Speaker 1: like kind of classic that savage right there, super savage.
Speaker 1: But I was like, I can't do it. I can't can't, can't,
Speaker 1: can't do it. Well it would have been fun, though, um,
Speaker 1: And so I end up calling her, goes to voicemail,
Speaker 1: and then I text her and I was just like, hello,
Speaker 1: this is Janet Kramer, Jolie's mom. Um, this is the
Speaker 1: information that I have. And I was like, don't have
Speaker 1: claim to be my neighbor because you don't live in
Speaker 1: my neighborhood. You're not my neighbor. You have no idea
Speaker 1: if my boyfriend moved in, which he hasn't. I don't
Speaker 1: have to explain that to you, But like, why do
Speaker 1: you why did you feel like even need to go
Speaker 1: on a social magazine or whatever and just start making
Speaker 1: like statements and then question my motherhood about those those
Speaker 1: poor kids. My kids are fine. I'm a great mom,
Speaker 1: and you don't need to worry about my poor kids. Like,
Speaker 1: good for you. So I was just like, and I
Speaker 1: wanted to be like, and he's not invited to the
Speaker 1: birthday party? Was he was? He invited? No? Because I
Speaker 1: heard he said he's a troublemaker in class. He was
Speaker 1: already he was already trout with I'm like, well, doesn't
Speaker 1: follow too far from the tree. They just do that
Speaker 1: for attention. I wouldn't do that though. It's a thing
Speaker 1: like I'm not I wouldn't listen to attention. Thing saying
Speaker 1: that she was in your neighborhood was to get to
Speaker 1: be incredible. It was the kid comment that those poor kids.
Speaker 1: I'm very sensitive to my kids about being a parent,
Speaker 1: like do not And then spread false information. No kids
Speaker 1: are off limits, man, they're off limits. You cannot miss
Speaker 1: with people's kids. So anyways, that happened. How did she respond?
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. You're absolutely right. That was really wrong
Speaker 1: in me. Good for her, yeah, I mean at least
Speaker 1: she owned it, thank god, because if not getting gone wrong,
Speaker 1: I mean, she was smart enough banked with this going down.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, but um, so that was interesting.
Speaker 1: And then I have a question for you to I'm
Speaker 1: not going to say the person's name, but it says
Speaker 1: it's a girl that I've talked to on Instagram. She's
Speaker 1: recently gone through a divorce. She's in the public eye,
Speaker 1: and I don't know why it bothers me, but we
Speaker 1: were dem ng and I basically said something to her
Speaker 1: like I'm really sorry for what you're going through, you know,
Speaker 1: And we've we've dammed, we've text sometimes. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm really sorry for what you're going through, you know,
Speaker 1: if you need anything, like I'm here for you or whatever.
Speaker 1: And then um, and then she's like, oh you too,
Speaker 1: Like I see that you're in a new relationship, Like
Speaker 1: I'm really happy, furious, like thanks, girls, like you know,
Speaker 1: it's just you never know, but like, yeah, I'm definitely
Speaker 1: like in a good spot right now. And she's like, well,
Speaker 1: at least your ex was a lot harder, hotter than
Speaker 1: my ex. At least you're ex it was a lot
Speaker 1: hotter than my ex and I and I can pull
Speaker 1: up the message. But I was like, I stopped in
Speaker 1: my tracks and I was like, well, I would never
Speaker 1: ever call her ex husband hot, whether he was hot
Speaker 1: or not. I wouldn't do that. So for some reason
Speaker 1: it really bothered me because I was like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna pull up the message. I don't understand
Speaker 1: the point, and maybe this cat and you please don't
Speaker 1: be married. Okay. Then we started talking about okay, so
Speaker 1: I just pulled the d M. Then we started talking
Speaker 1: about She mentioned a story about her ex hating her,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, girl, don't worry, Like you know,
Speaker 1: my ex hates me too, but really they hate themselves
Speaker 1: literally what I said, because he does. Do you think
Speaker 1: he's a narcissist? This person, my ex makes my life
Speaker 1: living hell every day. Blah blah blah blah blahah uh.
Speaker 1: My ex says I ruined his life to um blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah blah. How the heck do
Speaker 1: they hate you know? Does he hate me or whatever?
Speaker 1: Um blah blah blah. It's like he's a man. At
Speaker 1: least your ex is hot. Mine looks like a clown shows.
Speaker 1: At least your ex is hot. And for some reason,
Speaker 1: I'm just like, sorry, that's gonna bother me. I would
Speaker 1: never say your exs hot, especially knowing how much you
Speaker 1: hurt you anyways, have a great day. I don't know
Speaker 1: why it bothers me. I would never say, like, least
Speaker 1: your ex was hot, Like, I don't want to talk
Speaker 1: about how hot my ex was. So I think you
Speaker 1: are thinking two completely different things, okay, talking me through that.
Speaker 1: I think she is literally just trying to make a
Speaker 1: point that like hers is not and as a clown,
Speaker 1: I think she's thinking more about herself and you're thinking
Speaker 1: about yourself. You don't want to hear that your ex
Speaker 1: is hot. I don't want you guys be like, oh,
Speaker 1: your ex is hot. I'm like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: hear that. Yeah, none of us would say that to you.
Speaker 1: But I don't think that was her point. I don't
Speaker 1: think that was like a bad intention personally. I think
Speaker 1: her point was more than like like she had a
Speaker 1: hot one a month's left. I mean, I think it
Speaker 1: was just more about yeah, but you just don't want
Speaker 1: to keep that's something you don't want to hear. But
Speaker 1: she wouldn't know that. I was just like your face.
Speaker 1: I mean, I get where you're coming from, but I
Speaker 1: don't think that it was the intention. How did she
Speaker 1: handle you responding that way? Oh? Sorry, I was just
Speaker 1: trying to make light of it, and I'm like, I
Speaker 1: just don't want to I don't even want to mention
Speaker 1: that he was yeah, because I don't think he's hot
Speaker 1: at all. Anyways, Um, we're gonna take a break and
Speaker 1: then we're gonna get John and An a man coming out.
Speaker 1: You can pre order The Go Give Marriage on Amazon today.
Speaker 1: I'm really excited to get them on. Talk about the
Speaker 1: go Giver. Um, so break, get on John and Anna.
Speaker 1: Hello there, Hi, Well, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1: Wine down. Um, I'm Jamma. This is Catherine. Um. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you had the go giver and now it's the
Speaker 1: go Giver marriage. So what was how did you transition
Speaker 1: from first of all, what is the go giver? Give me?
Speaker 1: The give me the definition so I can be a
Speaker 1: go Giver. Okay, lowdown on the Go Giver. So The
Speaker 1: Go Giver is a book that came out in two
Speaker 1: thousand eight. That's going on and the first rough, very
Speaker 1: draft rolled off my desktop printer in two thousand five,
Speaker 1: so we're coming up on twenty years um. The premise
Speaker 1: of The Go Giver. It's a modern parable and it's
Speaker 1: built as a business book, so it's aimed at the
Speaker 1: business world, entrepreneurs and so on. And the premise of
Speaker 1: The Go Giver is what we call the Pindar principle.
Speaker 1: It says, the more you give, the more you have.
Speaker 1: It just means in business, if you operate with a function,
Speaker 1: with with a with a focus on the other person,
Speaker 1: with the idea of how can I add value to
Speaker 1: this person, how can I serve this person? How can
Speaker 1: I make their life better in the next few minutes,
Speaker 1: rather than what can I get from this? Right that
Speaker 1: it's not only a nice thing, but it's actually advantageous.
Speaker 1: It's it's pragmatic. I mean, your life improves, not just there,
Speaker 1: it helps everybody. So the book did really well. It's
Speaker 1: sold over a million copies. That kind of struck a
Speaker 1: chord and people loved it in the business world, but
Speaker 1: people kept writing to us and saying, when are you
Speaker 1: going to do a go giver book about relationships? Um?
Speaker 1: And that's how my wife got involved, because that's her world, honest,
Speaker 1: this is her career. Her whole adult life has been
Speaker 1: about couples and helping enrich people's lives and helping them
Speaker 1: live more satisfying lives. So because you are in them
Speaker 1: a therapist, I'm a therapist. I've been a marriage therapist
Speaker 1: as well as an individual therapist, mostly for adults. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's been my lifelong career pretty much. UM, some
Speaker 1: stints in business, and and I have a consulting practice
Speaker 1: as well. Um. But yeah, I care deeply about the
Speaker 1: details of what hold people back from succeeding in marriage.
Speaker 1: And a lot of times it's the emotional baggage that
Speaker 1: we all bring from our childhood. It gets in the
Speaker 1: way of us being able to operate and function in
Speaker 1: a marriage in a way where all those old issues
Speaker 1: don't keep rising up and getting in the way of
Speaker 1: true intimacy. So the go giver marriage, what is like,
Speaker 1: how do you then transition from the go giver to
Speaker 1: the go giver marriage? So what are the things that
Speaker 1: like to be to be a go giver in in
Speaker 1: a marriage. You know. The subtitle of the book is
Speaker 1: The Five Secrets to Lasting Love and it's based on
Speaker 1: five components that are based on developmental theory, and developmental
Speaker 1: theory basically says that whatever you need it as an
Speaker 1: infant and as a child, you still need as an adult.
Speaker 1: And so each secret is based on core elements of
Speaker 1: things that you needed as a child that you still
Speaker 1: very much need now. What happens is that people get
Speaker 1: so busy with their lives, chasing their careers, being Instagram influencers,
Speaker 1: you know, going after you know, lots and lots of
Speaker 1: you know, prizes if you will, uh, in the in
Speaker 1: the adult world, that they kind of lose track of
Speaker 1: giving to their spouse these things. So, you know, the
Speaker 1: like the go giver. The basic premises that whenever you
Speaker 1: give to your spouse, you're adding value to their life,
Speaker 1: but it also reverberates back to you and the value
Speaker 1: comes back to you as well in you deeper intimacy,
Speaker 1: closer relationship, better bond, that kind of thing. So what
Speaker 1: are those things that you know your your child self
Speaker 1: needs now as an adult. Uh, Well, one of them.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite of the secrets is just appreciation.
Speaker 1: And it's just the idea that the most important thing
Speaker 1: that we all need as children and as adults is
Speaker 1: to be seen, heard, understood, and deeply witnessed. And that's
Speaker 1: something that people want, they really want it. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're going to be in an intimate relationship, you
Speaker 1: don't want this person to just love you. You want
Speaker 1: them to get you at a very deep level. You
Speaker 1: want them to understand you. You want them to almost
Speaker 1: be able to read your mind and feel feel you
Speaker 1: when you're just your anxiety is rising or you're just
Speaker 1: feeling like you're going to fall apart after a long
Speaker 1: week at the office whatever. Um. So, it really is
Speaker 1: one of those things that being appreciated such a small gesture,
Speaker 1: but it's a gesture of acknowledgement of you as a
Speaker 1: person and it and we we we stress that it
Speaker 1: needs to be something sincere and authentic. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: great when somebody walks by you in the kitchen it says, babe,
Speaker 1: you're looking great in those genes today. You know, these
Speaker 1: are compliments and they're lovely. But when we're talking about appreciation,
Speaker 1: we're talking about that moment where your spouse stops you
Speaker 1: and says you are the most wonderful person. Your friends
Speaker 1: are so lucky to have you. You're a really good friend.
Speaker 1: And when I watch you with other people, I'm just
Speaker 1: astonished at the way you listen and just what a
Speaker 1: good friend you are, what a giver you are, And
Speaker 1: then you're kind of taken back, going, well, thanks, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of those moments. And basically we
Speaker 1: teach people to do it two or three times a day,
Speaker 1: and then up it four times a day, five times
Speaker 1: a day. You know, no one can get enough appreciation. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of like I like of it
Speaker 1: to the way people. You know, you can either pray
Speaker 1: a prayer of praise and thanksgiving, or you can pray
Speaker 1: a prayer of gimme, gimme, gimme what have you given
Speaker 1: me today? And this is kind of the same. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like when you're giving to your spouse, when you're
Speaker 1: letting your partner know the little ways that he or
Speaker 1: she is constantly nourishing your spirit and and the ways
Speaker 1: that you feel loved and taken care of, and the
Speaker 1: ways that you see them as a person. Um, it's
Speaker 1: really powerful. And that's that's one John. Is there something
Speaker 1: for you that you struggle with? Um, one of the secrets,
Speaker 1: like in your relationship? Really hey, because I know, like
Speaker 1: I remember, I don't know if you guys read the
Speaker 1: book Love and Respect, but I remember reading that with
Speaker 1: my then my now acts. But you know, it's like
Speaker 1: women want to be loved, men want to be respected,
Speaker 1: And is it is there? Um? Is there a piece
Speaker 1: for you in one of the your secrets and the
Speaker 1: go giver where it's like it's just maybe it's harder
Speaker 1: for men in general, but might be also hard and
Speaker 1: just harder to do um in your marriage. I think
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that has really struck
Speaker 1: us in this is the power of believing in another
Speaker 1: person and and letting them know that. It's like appreciation
Speaker 1: that Anna was saying, it's fine to appreciate the other person,
Speaker 1: but she's talking about putting it in words, actually saying it,
Speaker 1: because we often forget to do that. We kind of assume, yeah,
Speaker 1: she knows that I appreciate her. It's like that with
Speaker 1: this like core belief in the other person, it's easy
Speaker 1: to let it go to just kind of assume it
Speaker 1: but Anna has done this with me, for we've been
Speaker 1: together for twenty five years now. We both came out
Speaker 1: of prior marriages, so we both like to say, you know,
Speaker 1: had emerged from the smoking ruins of houses that have
Speaker 1: burned down around us. And I think that I have
Speaker 1: a lot of self confidence as a as a as
Speaker 1: a as a professional, as a person in the world,
Speaker 1: but in terms of my interior self, in terms of
Speaker 1: me as a human being. UM, I never realized how
Speaker 1: much self doubt I have. And you talk about respect,
Speaker 1: but this is about self respect. And On has been
Speaker 1: there for me in the way that a really good
Speaker 1: parent will be. And I don't mean she parentifies, but
Speaker 1: she's been there believing in me, believing in me, believing
Speaker 1: in me. I'll give you an example. I just published
Speaker 1: my first novel last year, and even thank you. Even
Speaker 1: though I've published dozens of books, they've all been nonfiction.
Speaker 1: Anna used to say to me, you would write great novels,
Speaker 1: you'd be a great novelist. And I would say, oh, why,
Speaker 1: thank you. I appreciate that vote of confidence. Translation, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't I don't believe a word
Speaker 1: you're saying. But I appreciate that you're saying it. But
Speaker 1: she kept saying it, and she wasn't obnoxious about it.
Speaker 1: She just kept feeding me that she kept saying. And
Speaker 1: you know, she talked about about developmental theory. Anna taught
Speaker 1: me the phrase primary narcissism, which is what a baby has.
Speaker 1: It's when they're first forming their identity. And you, as
Speaker 1: a parent might say, look at you. You read that
Speaker 1: whole book by yourself. You're amazing, and a kid just
Speaker 1: thrives on that. Right, we all have that infant still
Speaker 1: inside us, right, We're all still that child beneath the sophistication.
Speaker 1: So she would say, you're gonna be a great knowledge.
Speaker 1: Now we'd go, oh, that's just such a nice feeling,
Speaker 1: but I don't believe it yet yet. Yet after twenty years,
Speaker 1: I finally believed it. And you published my first novel
Speaker 1: and just up for a barrier word and it's it's
Speaker 1: done really well. And that would not have happened without
Speaker 1: her building me up so simple. But we just forget
Speaker 1: to do it. Yeah, that's beautiful. Is because you guys
Speaker 1: have both come from past relationships. Um, I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: almost a year divorced. I'm now in a new relationship.
Speaker 1: But you know I often think back and go okay, like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously I see things that I could have
Speaker 1: done differently in my last marriage. UM. Now in this
Speaker 1: new relationship, it's like, how do you almost let because
Speaker 1: I think I'm so afraid of my past relationship creeping
Speaker 1: in and the possibility of like, oh my god, what
Speaker 1: if what if he cheats? I mean like Max did
Speaker 1: and what if? You know that, It's just like I'm
Speaker 1: almost taking away what how great like my relationship could
Speaker 1: be today with a new person because I'm so afraid
Speaker 1: of like what the past can creep into my you know,
Speaker 1: two now wondering if I want to speak I want
Speaker 1: to speak to that if I may please UM. You know,
Speaker 1: both John and I not only came out of long
Speaker 1: term marriages that didn't make it, but there were kids involved,
Speaker 1: and we both married for life. You know, we were
Speaker 1: the like you get married, just stay married kind of
Speaker 1: people and you know, the the embers were still burning
Speaker 1: when we got together. In terms of both of us
Speaker 1: had a lot of self confidence issues. I think you
Speaker 1: have to give yourself space. I think that UM, allow
Speaker 1: yourself as many years and as much time as it
Speaker 1: takes because if that person isn't willing to wait until
Speaker 1: you're really comfortable, they're not the right person for you anyways.
Speaker 1: And it's perfectly legitimate to have those feelings of I'm
Speaker 1: scared what if he cheats on me? You know what
Speaker 1: if this happens, What if my trust gets broken again?
Speaker 1: I don't think I can handle it well? Then wait,
Speaker 1: because the handwriting is always on the wall. If you
Speaker 1: wait a few years, and I tell people all the time,
Speaker 1: couples that I'm coaching or individuals that i'm coaching, you know,
Speaker 1: the red flags will go down on the field if
Speaker 1: you wait long enough. And so if you're still in
Speaker 1: the dating phase of your relationships, stay there until it's
Speaker 1: so black and white to you that you know it's
Speaker 1: the right move. Because people reveal themselves over time. It
Speaker 1: could be that moment when you're really hurting and he
Speaker 1: doesn't listen, Or it could be that moment when you
Speaker 1: know you're sharing some really deep intimate thing and he
Speaker 1: changes the topic to talk about the game, or you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like it's so subtle sometimes, but women
Speaker 1: are very relational. That's why you know. Women have women friends.
Speaker 1: Men have men friends. And I don't deny either one
Speaker 1: as very relational. But women, they get really deep and
Speaker 1: intimate around relationship. They want to be able to share
Speaker 1: at a very deep, very core level. And we often
Speaker 1: joke about how like men are men are labradors and
Speaker 1: women are cats, you know, and labradors like they just
Speaker 1: want to run with the bone and do a good
Speaker 1: job where my bone. But yeah, exactly, but you know,
Speaker 1: women are looking for that. You know, it's the same
Speaker 1: when intimacy weekends. Men are like, you know, I'm turned on,
Speaker 1: let's go. Women are like, could we talk first? You know,
Speaker 1: can we have a glass of wine? You know, can
Speaker 1: we warm up a little? You know, they there's a
Speaker 1: little bit of a time lapse there for women to
Speaker 1: sort of let down, let their guard down, get relaxed,
Speaker 1: and get comfortable. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's
Speaker 1: just that we're different in our makeup. And so I
Speaker 1: really feel like waiting and giving it, giving yourself that
Speaker 1: all the space you could possibly need is the way
Speaker 1: that that you get to find out you know, where
Speaker 1: you where you stand. And I had a personal note
Speaker 1: on that. I just want to add to that that
Speaker 1: you know, this is this is our story. Because when
Speaker 1: we first got together, we when we first fell in love,
Speaker 1: we felt madly and I mean we had we were
Speaker 1: friends first, we were business colleagues and friends and um,
Speaker 1: we had the greatest conversations and they went on for hours,
Speaker 1: and we can talk about anything. I was like, who
Speaker 1: is this dazzling creature that can talk about anything for hours?
Speaker 1: And we just went on and on and on. Once
Speaker 1: we fell in love and realized that I was a goner,
Speaker 1: I was just so done. It's like, we have to
Speaker 1: get married. And I wanted to get married right then,
Speaker 1: and and I was very serious. I told a friend
Speaker 1: of mine, if I don't get married, I'll die. That
Speaker 1: was how it felt like, I just have to do it.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, there's just there's no note to this. And Anna,
Speaker 1: it was who said, yeah, I think we need a
Speaker 1: little time, which was very diplomatic of her. What she
Speaker 1: really meant was I think you need a little time.
Speaker 1: Because I did. Oh, yeah, you did too, Okay, we'll
Speaker 1: be looking. I did. I did because I didn't understand
Speaker 1: what happened with the first marriage. I didn't even quite
Speaker 1: understand myself. I mean I didn't know it. And after
Speaker 1: a few years of just dating. I realized that deep
Speaker 1: inside somewhere, I was terrified that as much as I
Speaker 1: adored this creature, that if we got married, that one
Speaker 1: would blow up too. And I got to a point
Speaker 1: where I was thinking, you know, we're getting along really well,
Speaker 1: maybe that's like all there is. Um. We did it
Speaker 1: for ten years and you know, and then when we
Speaker 1: actually got married, it was just so black and white.
Speaker 1: And in fact, his daughter we had we had kids.
Speaker 1: You know, that was part of the complicate teenage kids.
Speaker 1: Honest daughter went to her one day and said, and
Speaker 1: the story is actually in the in the Gora marriage
Speaker 1: in the book in another character. But her daughter came
Speaker 1: to her and said, Mom, I think you should marry John.
Speaker 1: And honestly, do you do? Why? Why do you think
Speaker 1: that he makes you happy? I mean, when your kids
Speaker 1: are coming and saying, guys, guys, tie the knot, then
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a pretty good sign. But I'm
Speaker 1: really so grateful that we didn't jump in the beginning
Speaker 1: because I had some sorting out to do. But do
Speaker 1: you think you could have done that? That's a thing.
Speaker 1: Could you do that sorting out when you're in a relation,
Speaker 1: Because I feel like when you're in a marriage, it's
Speaker 1: like they're still sorting out always to be done, you
Speaker 1: can for sure, but it's it's more complicated. But sweetheart,
Speaker 1: you're going to say something on that, Well, I agree
Speaker 1: with John, it's more complicated because once you're in the
Speaker 1: intimacy of you've locked the door, so to speak, you've
Speaker 1: gotten married. Um. Some people really experience that sense of
Speaker 1: like what have I done? Um the minute the marriage
Speaker 1: goes down. And also the intimacy deepens in the sense
Speaker 1: that people, you know, the baggage that each of us
Speaker 1: bring to the relationship unpacks, and it unpacks on its own.
Speaker 1: The part of you that has control issues or that
Speaker 1: you know is expecting sex more than the other one,
Speaker 1: you know, all of a sudden that starts to play out,
Speaker 1: and little little spats and little irritations appear, and it
Speaker 1: can be harder for you to both have the compassion
Speaker 1: to say, I'm still healing this wound that happened to
Speaker 1: me five years ago, and I need I need to
Speaker 1: be able to heal that. I need to feel like
Speaker 1: that's fully fully managed. Um. And usually when there's a
Speaker 1: trust broken, there's a deeper trust broken underneath it. If
Speaker 1: you go back into your childhood. Sometimes there's something there
Speaker 1: that also really hurt that kind of you know, one
Speaker 1: feeds the other and makes the wound a little deeper
Speaker 1: than it should be. It's not that you can't heal
Speaker 1: while you're together in a marriage, but both of you
Speaker 1: have to be really really willing to either bring in
Speaker 1: a third party counselor to help you talk through things,
Speaker 1: or to have real rules for not letting fierce fights
Speaker 1: break out in a way that are destructive and or
Speaker 1: where you're in a shouting match where neither one is
Speaker 1: getting hurt. So I've been married for fourteen years, and
Speaker 1: you know, we got married young, So you get married young.
Speaker 1: I didn't have this advice when I was twenty three
Speaker 1: years old. You know, deal with your childhood wounds before
Speaker 1: you get married, you know. So you're in a marriage
Speaker 1: that I am in therapy dealing with my childhood wounds
Speaker 1: and trying to kind of maneuver that in a marriage
Speaker 1: fourteen years later. I mean there's been you know, bumps
Speaker 1: on the road for years, but just really finally realizing
Speaker 1: it is from so many childhood wounds. So like what
Speaker 1: I mean you kind of touched on that, but it's
Speaker 1: it's it's a hard thing to figure out because it's
Speaker 1: like we've grown so much, we're different people, you know,
Speaker 1: do things change, you know, where our needs different when
Speaker 1: we were younger than they are now, or it sounds
Speaker 1: like they're the same, like he said, you know when
Speaker 1: we're children. Yeah, they're not. They're not deeper, they're not different.
Speaker 1: But it really also depends on your spouse and whether
Speaker 1: or not he can really embrace the part of you
Speaker 1: that's healing and and sometimes that takes having those really
Speaker 1: intimate conversations where you're letting him know that you realize
Speaker 1: you've got stuff too that you're working on, and you
Speaker 1: don't want it to hurt him, and you don't want
Speaker 1: it to ride all over him. At the same time,
Speaker 1: you want him to give you, um some space to
Speaker 1: work on it and for it to be okay that
Speaker 1: it exists. Because I I had anxiety my first marriage.
Speaker 1: I I grew up with a family member who was
Speaker 1: made me nervous all the time. I'll just put it
Speaker 1: that way without getting too deep into it. UM I
Speaker 1: had a parent who was depressed and they got very
Speaker 1: irritable at times, and we're sometimes very verbal about their irritability,
Speaker 1: and I was constantly watching them. I was nervous and
Speaker 1: so and then I ended up with my firstborn child
Speaker 1: had special needs. And I'll tell you a kid with
Speaker 1: special needs, you're nervous all the time because you're just
Speaker 1: watching them like a hawk to make sure they don't
Speaker 1: have another seizure or that something bad isn't about to happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we both have children with special needs, so that those
Speaker 1: are really stressful on a marriage. So what I'm what
Speaker 1: I'm driving at though, is that my anxiety wrote all
Speaker 1: over the marriage. I mean, it was there all the
Speaker 1: time and it drove him nuts. But his way of
Speaker 1: dealing with it was to say things like cut it out,
Speaker 1: it's not that big a deal. That's like dismissing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's dismissing your feelings completely. And so you really need
Speaker 1: that opportunity for your husband to really understand that these
Speaker 1: wounds aren't just surface. These wounds are deep. They had
Speaker 1: an impact on you, and that you're trying to be
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if your mother, but you're trying to
Speaker 1: be the best mother and the best wife spouse you
Speaker 1: can be, and that you want to make sure that
Speaker 1: your wounds don't hurt him or don't impact the relationship,
Speaker 1: but you also want him to understand that you need
Speaker 1: his compassion in his space, and if that can get
Speaker 1: really established, there's a great deal of room for healing.
Speaker 1: And kudos to you for being in therapy, because old wounds,
Speaker 1: you know, they really really deserve in a compassionate therapist
Speaker 1: who's really good, who can just be there for you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's definitely kind of where we're at.
Speaker 1: He is kind of giving me the space to just
Speaker 1: kind of and I'm the one with the intimacy issues,
Speaker 1: like I have a hard time being vulnerable, I have,
Speaker 1: you know, all of those and he's really given me
Speaker 1: the space to just kind of try and go figure
Speaker 1: that out. And you know, and I have three kids,
Speaker 1: and you know, you said about your anxiety terrifies me
Speaker 1: because I can be kind of that as a mom.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what if I you know, like what
Speaker 1: if this affects my kids? You know, I mean it's
Speaker 1: so much you know, thinking about trying to fix yourself
Speaker 1: but also not messing up your kids at the same time.
Speaker 1: Is trust yourself as a mother. I just want to
Speaker 1: say this to you because the sincerety of who you
Speaker 1: are is coming straight through that microphone, loud and clear.
Speaker 1: You're not going to screw up your kids. Your kids
Speaker 1: love you deeper than you could even imagine. And you
Speaker 1: are not doing what was done to you. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you're making sure and the fierceness. I gotta tell you,
Speaker 1: a fierce mother is way better than an ambivalent mother.
Speaker 1: In a heartbeat, yeah, I hear that. No force, no
Speaker 1: force in the universe more powerful than a fierce mama.
Speaker 1: That's right, exactly, for sure, we'll get I sued the
Speaker 1: public school system for a placement that costs twenty four
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year and one in fifteen minutes. Oh wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I walked into walked into that meeting with a lawyer
Speaker 1: and said, I'm going straight to the state level. You
Speaker 1: cannot provide for my child. This is what she needs.
Speaker 1: It's an outside placement, and I expect busting Mike drop. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you got it. You know, there's nothing more
Speaker 1: powerful than a woman on purpose. So don't don't don't.
Speaker 1: Just trust yourself. That's my greatest greatest advice. I'm sure
Speaker 1: a therapist is you know, behind the behind the you know,
Speaker 1: we have the same therapist. I gave her my therapist
Speaker 1: and she's she's she's an amazing But it's funny because
Speaker 1: our therapist is very therapy. You know, she's follows, she's there.
Speaker 1: She's like, I cannot confirm nor deny that like that
Speaker 1: that you have my best friend. I know, I know,
Speaker 1: but we just exchanged appointment, so I know that you know. Um,
Speaker 1: but I am curious so too, because a lot of people,
Speaker 1: UM ask me this question, and you know, I know,
Speaker 1: I have people that wrestle with it, like when do
Speaker 1: you know, like it's to walk away? Like I knew
Speaker 1: my walk away moment, but like when what do you
Speaker 1: tell couples and that might not even have like I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, maybe in the all situation
Speaker 1: with you in your act, I mean you with you
Speaker 1: in your husband where it's like there's not inity, there's
Speaker 1: not this, there's not that, but it's like it's just
Speaker 1: you guys. It's like, do you do you continue to
Speaker 1: you know, be a go giver in the marriage or
Speaker 1: is it just like like when the when when maybe
Speaker 1: there's love loss and it's like it's you don't know
Speaker 1: how to get that back. It's like because that that
Speaker 1: feels like exhausting too. And it's like I know with
Speaker 1: my ax, like just trying and trying and trying. And
Speaker 1: finally it's like people like when did you know enough
Speaker 1: was enough? Because I have so many people that reach
Speaker 1: out there like I'm just miserable, and it's like and
Speaker 1: I always say, like, well, try therapy, try things, and
Speaker 1: but it's like, what is y'all's advice for you know?
Speaker 1: When to go the opposite way of being a go giver?
Speaker 1: I guess in the in the in our book the
Speaker 1: five Secrets there Lasting Love, the first four secrets are
Speaker 1: really all about being generous with your with your partner.
Speaker 1: The fifth secret is about being generous with yourself. And
Speaker 1: I just want to say about your you know that
Speaker 1: it is absolutely being a go giver when it's when
Speaker 1: when it's time to take care of yourself. Say it
Speaker 1: this way. Being a go giver is not contradicting, doesn't
Speaker 1: contradict being a go giver to yourself, giving to yourself
Speaker 1: what you need, taking care of yourself. If you don't
Speaker 1: take care of yourself, then you're no good to anybody
Speaker 1: else anyhow. So it's it's it's part and parcel of
Speaker 1: this whole cycle of giving. UM. And the only other
Speaker 1: thing I'll say is that UM, when I sat down
Speaker 1: with the therapist, with my with my my former wife, UM,
Speaker 1: when I realized we were we were in serious trouble.
Speaker 1: I went to the local university and I got the
Speaker 1: head of this echology department and said, I want the
Speaker 1: best therapist in this in the city. So we got him.
Speaker 1: We sat down with him, fantastic guy. And his first appointment,
Speaker 1: he said, I want you to know that I'm an
Speaker 1: expert at putting marriages back together. However, if we determine
Speaker 1: that there's we're at the point of no return, I
Speaker 1: am also an expert at taking marriages apart. I like
Speaker 1: this guy because he doesn't have a horse in this race.
Speaker 1: He's here for us. When we reached the point where
Speaker 1: it was clear that we needed to put to to
Speaker 1: take the marriage apart, was when it was clear that
Speaker 1: we weren't both on the page of being allowing to
Speaker 1: the other person of some give and take. There was
Speaker 1: there was There was no given, no take in in
Speaker 1: the negotiation. It's like word a brick wall. But here
Speaker 1: I turned it over to my more erudite partner and wife. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you. One of the secrets in our book
Speaker 1: addresses all issues of codependence, and codependence is is really
Speaker 1: in a nutshell somebody telling you and or acting out
Speaker 1: in their behavior, telling you that you are either too
Speaker 1: much or not enough. You know. And when somebody is
Speaker 1: constantly telling you, you know, I love you, but I'd
Speaker 1: love you more if you lost thirty five pounds because
Speaker 1: I'm really not attracted to you the way you are,
Speaker 1: It's like bingo. You know this is not okay. Um,
Speaker 1: Now that's not a reason to just shut the door
Speaker 1: and end it. But I'll tell you the things that
Speaker 1: I think are really serious red flags. And I'm a
Speaker 1: great believer in couples therapy where where the both members
Speaker 1: of the couple are willing to get in for a
Speaker 1: year and I mean a year of get down and
Speaker 1: get dirty. Because guys come with as many childhood wounds
Speaker 1: as women in a heartbeat, often more guys are brutalized
Speaker 1: by their fathers at times when their kids, and they
Speaker 1: become this tough guy because everyone tells them not to
Speaker 1: be a sissy. But what what you see walking around
Speaker 1: in America and you see it in guys that have
Speaker 1: sex addiction, pornography addiction, they have working out at the
Speaker 1: gym too much addiction, they have computer addictions, they have
Speaker 1: all kinds of addictions because they don't feel good enough
Speaker 1: as they are exactly success addiction. And they have terrible
Speaker 1: childhood wounds. And it's called covert depression. And if you
Speaker 1: want to read a phenomenal book on it, I'll recommend
Speaker 1: one that's not ours. It's called I Don't want to
Speaker 1: Talk About It by Terrence Really okay, talk about it?
Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't want to talk about It's a
Speaker 1: brilliant title. And he's a brilliant therapist and um and
Speaker 1: I've studied with him. A lot of other therapists around
Speaker 1: the country have studied with him, and they're a therapists
Speaker 1: all over the country that teach and work with his methods.
Speaker 1: He will get right in the middle of your marriage
Speaker 1: and he will figure out who is casting the most
Speaker 1: stuff on the wall immediately and basically dig right into
Speaker 1: their childhood and find the elements that are hurting. I've
Speaker 1: seen him take grown men who are totally arrogant and
Speaker 1: totally narcissistic and totally brutes with their family, with their kids,
Speaker 1: with their wife, and I've seen them level them two
Speaker 1: tears and open up the can opener of deep, deep
Speaker 1: abuse and depression from their childhood, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: the father starts awakening to the fact that he's the
Speaker 1: problem and all in the whole marriage starts to shift.
Speaker 1: But it's a year long process. You know, you've got
Speaker 1: to get in and you've got to be willing to
Speaker 1: stay there. If people are willing to do that kind
Speaker 1: of work, Um, there's great hope for their marriage. I
Speaker 1: don't care what they've been through. However, if you're being
Speaker 1: hit or physically abused by someone, these are not generally
Speaker 1: people that are going to wake up to their wounds
Speaker 1: or try to work on anything, because if they were
Speaker 1: trying to work on things, they wouldn't be hitting you.
Speaker 1: They'd be punching a wall instead. Um. But the minute
Speaker 1: the abuse is aimed at you, you really want to
Speaker 1: get to get to women and people around you and
Speaker 1: find a way to get yourself, even get your kids,
Speaker 1: because you don't want your kids witnessing that. You do
Speaker 1: not want your children, um, viewing that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, Alcoholism is a tough one. If people aren't
Speaker 1: willing to get on the wagon. I've seen terrible things
Speaker 1: go down in families where one or the other of
Speaker 1: the marriage partners is drinking to excess and getting really
Speaker 1: arrogant and aggressive, and you know, you see terrible behavior.
Speaker 1: And if they are not willing to get on the
Speaker 1: wagon and get into a twelve step program and do
Speaker 1: the things that they need to get clean off of
Speaker 1: drugs and alcohol, then it's time to walk. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like, you have to take care of you, and
Speaker 1: that is the fifth secret. The fifth secret is about
Speaker 1: growing yourself, making and recognizing that in any good marriage,
Speaker 1: the marriage itself is not going to feed you. You
Speaker 1: have to feed you. You have to bring your best
Speaker 1: self to the marriage, and so does your spouse. So
Speaker 1: it's it's really about growing yourself and that is about
Speaker 1: self respect. So you know, when the time is there,
Speaker 1: get with the therapist. It will take them less in
Speaker 1: a session for you to know it's time to move out.
Speaker 1: That's really good advice. Although my little red flag meter
Speaker 1: came up and well because so my ex had a
Speaker 1: sex addiction, which is one of the reasons why you know,
Speaker 1: I tried for six years to try to you know,
Speaker 1: work there. We have two kids, and I tried everything
Speaker 1: until the pattern just kept repeating and you know, had
Speaker 1: to eventually throw in the towel. Unfortunately. Um yea, you know,
Speaker 1: so in this you know, new early relationship, I'm definitely, um,
Speaker 1: I have a lot of issues again now knowing a lot,
Speaker 1: I mean because I've done a lot of work too.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of it is childhood related and
Speaker 1: trust and worth and enoughness and all that stuff, you know.
Speaker 1: And then, uh, but something that you said, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, he works out all the time my
Speaker 1: new boyfriend. Like I mean literally he's in the gym
Speaker 1: and he's an X and he's a Navy seal um
Speaker 1: so you know, Navy seal crossfitter. But then I'm like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: Like is it because so now that he works out
Speaker 1: every day, you know for a couple hours, like, does
Speaker 1: he have a problem because And I'm like like, is
Speaker 1: this like you know, and I know that he has
Speaker 1: his you know, especially from what he does. It's like
Speaker 1: he has this identity where you know, it's him not
Speaker 1: being you know, overseas anymore and losing kind of his identity.
Speaker 1: But it's like, I guess I'm just so worried about
Speaker 1: something that will then repeat the pattern of the past again.
Speaker 1: So now that just freaked me out. So if we
Speaker 1: can help calm that or what I was something I
Speaker 1: could say to him or like, and I would say,
Speaker 1: that's your next topic with your therapist, just to talk
Speaker 1: about the anxiety that that drove in you. Because it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you know, John's one of John's best friends
Speaker 1: is a Navy seal. He's written like eight books with him,
Speaker 1: a novel for example, well the novels, the novel they
Speaker 1: wrote together as well. Um, so just because he's a
Speaker 1: Navy seal and he's got that macho exterior and he
Speaker 1: likes to work out, doesn't mean that that's an addiction.
Speaker 1: And yes, most you know Brandon and other Navy seals,
Speaker 1: I know they go to the gym every day. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they're depressed or that they have an addiction. Um,
Speaker 1: you have to really measure it around what what's going
Speaker 1: on in the rest of his life and how is
Speaker 1: he doing and also you know, how able is he
Speaker 1: to sort of let down his guard and be vulnerable
Speaker 1: with you. Oh yeah, I know, We've we've had some
Speaker 1: really good talks, like he's shared emotions and I mean,
Speaker 1: I know he deals has some identity stuff that he's
Speaker 1: working on, but being able to acknowledge it is like
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, he's at least wanting to he can
Speaker 1: see it, he can acknowledge it, he can you know,
Speaker 1: express emotion. Um. But yeah, now that just like that's
Speaker 1: heartwarming to hear. I mean, just that that little bit
Speaker 1: that you just said. I've dealt with a lot of seals.
Speaker 1: In the process of working writing all these books with
Speaker 1: with my my buddy Brandon, I've gotten to know the
Speaker 1: seal community really, really well. Talk with a lot of
Speaker 1: families and and siblings and parents and partners. And there
Speaker 1: seems to be two kinds of Special Ops guys. There's
Speaker 1: the spec Ops guys who get out of the service
Speaker 1: and make the leap to civilian life and find meaning
Speaker 1: in civilian life. And there's a lot of guys who
Speaker 1: can't quite make the leap. And you know, they're kind
Speaker 1: of like like the guys sitting in the living rooms
Speaker 1: who were trying to relive their high school or the
Speaker 1: college years. Is saying, you know, the rest of life
Speaker 1: is downhill. And when when somebody can't make that leap
Speaker 1: to civilian life, and to finding a new meaning in
Speaker 1: a new career, in a new path. That it's very
Speaker 1: very tough to get, you know, to get through that wall.
Speaker 1: But if it's if it's a guy who's you know,
Speaker 1: who's come out of that world and now he's in
Speaker 1: this world and he's he's opening up to you and
Speaker 1: seeing things that he has to be working with and
Speaker 1: sharing films, that's that's phenomenal because there's no one as
Speaker 1: deep as a specups guy, and these guys often have
Speaker 1: really tremendous depth of thinking and character and intellectual capacity
Speaker 1: and they were not just macho fighting g I Joe's
Speaker 1: um is my experience anyhow. Yeah, Yeah, they have to
Speaker 1: have brilliant intelligence just to make it, because the stuff
Speaker 1: they have to do once they're out in the field,
Speaker 1: I mean it's really high level. I mean yeah, they
Speaker 1: have to make calculations on a on a moment's notice
Speaker 1: that are very very high functioning. So yeah, they're they
Speaker 1: tend to be a cut above in terms of their intelligence. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I would you know, I would also just question,
Speaker 1: you know, it, does his he ever considered therapy because
Speaker 1: you know, he goes to my therapies place too. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I just my therapists out to people. Theist he
Speaker 1: doesn't see in my therapist. He sees that he my therapist. Like,
Speaker 1: we can't do that, So I'm smart. That's that's good
Speaker 1: boundaries on her part. So she's a great she's a
Speaker 1: great therapist. Yeah, really important. Even the I can no
Speaker 1: longer I cannot say or deny, you know, it's good boundaries. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know. I told her one day that we're just
Speaker 1: gonna all show up, like all you know, three of
Speaker 1: my best friends, that I'll have her. So we're still
Speaker 1: just going to show up and just make her life
Speaker 1: outward I uncomfortable. Love to make uncomfortable. Um. Well yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: this is this is good. It's all good. This is
Speaker 1: a very good information. Um. I could feel like I
Speaker 1: could talk to you guys like forever. I love all
Speaker 1: the insight. Um, but we can. We can pre order
Speaker 1: um the book now and then when does it actually
Speaker 1: come out March eight? This is so exciting, you guys.
Speaker 1: We've never written a book together before I published. This
Speaker 1: is our first one together, and it's also the first
Speaker 1: time we've ever like going on the road and on
Speaker 1: a promotional tour like this together. So this is just
Speaker 1: we're having a blast. This is like the sixth secret.
Speaker 1: No no, no, no. Me and my ex wrote off together.
Speaker 1: We wrote a book with a New York Times bestseller
Speaker 1: and to the a couple of chapters were not very
Speaker 1: honest from him and come to find out, yep, and
Speaker 1: then yeah, and then we got divorced very soon after.
Speaker 1: Um when it came out, and I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: the good fight. But I'm doing the good fight by
Speaker 1: myself now. I'm like, so, you guys are gonna do
Speaker 1: great though. You guys, you guys got way more experienced,
Speaker 1: way more years. You seem like a good guy. And
Speaker 1: the Five Secrets, the Five Secrets. The thing about the
Speaker 1: Five Secrets is that they're really designed to be something
Speaker 1: that you can employ in minutes a day. And so
Speaker 1: if you dissect each secret and really understand it in
Speaker 1: the second half of the book, the first half is
Speaker 1: the parable. The second half of the book is called
Speaker 1: the Practice and and basically it's the half that I
Speaker 1: wrote that goes in depth into each secret and what
Speaker 1: it means, why it's there, and also what it's opposite
Speaker 1: is the opposite of appreciation is criticism, and criticism will
Speaker 1: kill a marriage. I mean, kill it dead as a doornail.
Speaker 1: And so if criticism is just a constant and your
Speaker 1: brain gets in a loop, you know, if you're criticizing constantly,
Speaker 1: you're looking for things to criticism, you know, to criticize,
Speaker 1: which what is that? Because it's like I've I've I know,
Speaker 1: I've done that and I even caught myself like doing it,
Speaker 1: just being saying in my relationship now. But it's like
Speaker 1: it's just an It's it's looking inside of us that right,
Speaker 1: it's something that they're actually doing. It's more of like
Speaker 1: my unsatisfaction with myself and what I'm doing right. It's
Speaker 1: also and I just want to bring it back to
Speaker 1: the things that you said about childhood wounds. I find
Speaker 1: that for myself as a woman, and I see it
Speaker 1: in a lot of women that I that I work with.
Speaker 1: UM Control is one of our big issues. We want
Speaker 1: to control the universe, and in trying to control the universe,
Speaker 1: we're trying to make everybody do things the way we
Speaker 1: think they should be done. And that's where the criticism
Speaker 1: sneaks in. It's like, you know, Han, I really would
Speaker 1: like it if you could just hang that that that
Speaker 1: towel up in the kitchen. It doesn't deserve to just
Speaker 1: lay on the on the counter, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like it's such a stupid thing to comment on,
Speaker 1: but it's that little niggly like, you know, let me
Speaker 1: pick apart until everything's done the way I like it.
Speaker 1: I like the kitchen floor always swept every night after dinner.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, is that my issue or is
Speaker 1: it John's in my issue? It's by issue, so I
Speaker 1: don't ever bring it to him. I just want it swept,
Speaker 1: so I do it, you know. But it's it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, there's just all these ways I think that,
Speaker 1: especially if we have wounds from our childhood where we
Speaker 1: had any parents who were unreliable, and we all had
Speaker 1: parents or early boyfriends or people who were just totally unreliable.
Speaker 1: Your ex was unreliable, you know, a whole different, negative,
Speaker 1: not true scenario was going down while you were living
Speaker 1: with him, and you know that is enough to just
Speaker 1: take your trust and implode it. So be gentle with
Speaker 1: yourself and recognize that, yes, the opposite of appreciation is control,
Speaker 1: but you can switch the loop to appreciation and and
Speaker 1: and not from criticism and control so when you can
Speaker 1: take it and start appreciating him multiple times a day,
Speaker 1: you're going to find that he warms up in the
Speaker 1: whole tone of the relationship changes and your brain will
Speaker 1: get accustomed to the positive not the negative one. It
Speaker 1: really is a habit. Well, I'm getting this book. I
Speaker 1: know it's his marriage, but to me, it's the go
Speaker 1: giver relationship because I think it's important, you know, in
Speaker 1: a relationship with you know, friendships, with marriages, with partnerships.
Speaker 1: So um, I'm so excited to read your book. I'm
Speaker 1: so happy for you guys. Congratulations on joining forces and
Speaker 1: and what you guys love and do. And just thank
Speaker 1: you for bringing your knowledge and um, your insight to
Speaker 1: to our podcast. I really appreciate it, and thank you
Speaker 1: so much. I just want to say, I'm just going
Speaker 1: to say that we've just found out why your why
Speaker 1: your show is so popular. I mean, this has just
Speaker 1: been a lovely conversation. Thank you so much. I really appreciate,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Thank you so much, Gus, appreciate
Speaker 1: you have a good one. Thank you here, Okay, bye O.
Speaker 1: So sweet. I love them. I feel like I've just
Speaker 1: gone through therapy again. Yeah, you're good. I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you though, I'm so freaking proud
Speaker 1: of you, Like you're just like you're emoting emotion and
Speaker 1: you're feeling so emotional this week. But I'm so it's
Speaker 1: proud of you. Thank you. I appreciate it, like really
Speaker 1: like you're working through it because I know it's probably
Speaker 1: like it's like some of it just like confusion because
Speaker 1: you're like, why am I emotional? I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: almost like yeah, I mean I definitely like everything she
Speaker 1: said and everything. I mean it makes sense like I've
Speaker 1: got to work through childhood traumas. I get it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's confusing, Yeah, especially when I'm not used to being vulnerable.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, why am I? Why am I crying?
Speaker 1: You know? So? Yeah, that was good. I really I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed them. I'm excited about the book too. Um,
Speaker 1: very excited. What do people wanting? Well, I asked people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the last we got like two minutes. Everything is about Ian.
Speaker 1: Where is he and why is he? And around like
Speaker 1: does he live with you? Um? Are you married? And
Speaker 1: do you have children? Oh? Um? When can we expect
Speaker 1: a new single new follower? It just came out. It's
Speaker 1: called the story. Um, okay, this is a good one.
Speaker 1: How do you find your passions? And feeling stuck in
Speaker 1: life and I don't know what I love? I think
Speaker 1: that's a really good one. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people probably feel that way. What do you do because
Speaker 1: I have? Yeah, I struggle with that. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think it's hard because, first of all, I think for me,
Speaker 1: work is a passion. But I feel like a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't work in their passion, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. They're not passionate about their work. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1: But then outside of that, that's tough. It's like always
Speaker 1: say I need to get a hobby. That's what I need.
Speaker 1: I need a hobby because my passion is my kids
Speaker 1: and like and working. I love. I love what we do.
Speaker 1: Then it's like, I think my thing is where I'm
Speaker 1: struggling is like, what's my identity? Yeah, that's a tough one.
Speaker 1: I can't even go down the loop. We only got
Speaker 1: two minutes. That's another time, another story, an easier question. Um,
Speaker 1: advice and going through a breakup. You'll be fine in
Speaker 1: a few months. Just you've become you become all your friends,
Speaker 1: You'll be fine'll be fine. The light in the tunnel,
Speaker 1: you'll see it. No, you're you broke up for a
Speaker 1: reason and find out like you're gonna get You're gonna
Speaker 1: learn so much about yourself, and then you'll realize why
Speaker 1: you broke up. What's your favorite color? What's your color?
Speaker 1: I don't know that truckoise? Do same? Or were you
Speaker 1: just telling me mine? No? That's mine? Okay, I'm mine too.
Speaker 1: I've heard. How do I deal with the tantrums? I
Speaker 1: scream really loud outside for the oh, not in front
Speaker 1: of the Why haven't you signed a record label because
Speaker 1: nobody wants me? Stop? Um? Okay, one last question. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. Stop. There's so many.
Speaker 1: How's it going with your boyfriend? Do you want more children?
Speaker 1: Have you met like this? Are all the same? Are
Speaker 1: you okay? You seem sad? You know? Are you okay?
Speaker 1: I'm good? Good, I'm okay, I'm okay. All right, we're done,
Speaker 1: We're gone. Um. I love you guys, See you next week.
Speaker 1: See you