1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob left Set's podcast. My 2 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: guest today is Brent Smith, frontmans to the band Shinedown. Brent, 3 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: good to have you on podcasts. So I've got to ask, 4 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: Shinetown has nineteen number one rock tracks. Why are more 5 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: Americans not familiar with the music of Shinedown. Well, it's 6 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: interesting because I think it's changing. I think more Americans, actually, 7 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: I think the entire world is getting more and more 8 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: familiar with us. But I mean, we've been a band 9 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: for two decades now and we've gone through We're always 10 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: going down these very unique roads with our career. We've 11 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: always built the band around the audience and growing the audience. 12 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: But if I'm being totally honest with you, the touring 13 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: last year was some of the biggest that we've done 14 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: in the last two decades. The band is consistently growing 15 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: every year, and the band is consistently going to more 16 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 1: countries every year. It is expanding, it is getting bigger. 17 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: But that's all credit to the fan base. Okay, So 18 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,919 Speaker 1: who is a Shinedown fan? Anyone from anywhere, at any 19 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,639 Speaker 1: time can be a Shinedown fan. But I'm asking different. 20 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: You know, you're in touch, you know, with your audience. 21 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: What do you think they're Who are they, what are 22 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: they like, what's their personality, what are their desires, etc. 23 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: I think that they I mean, listen, as the main 24 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: lyricist in the band of two decades, I've been talking 25 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: about mental health for the better part of twenty years, 26 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: even before it was in headlines and people were talking 27 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: about it in media. You know, politicians were bringing it up, 28 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. You know, it's two thousand 29 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: and twenty three and mental health is a made your 30 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: topic now, but it's been a major topic my entire life. 31 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: So I think to answer your question, you know, a 32 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: Shine Down fan is somebody that, more than anything, I 33 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: think they're tenacious. I think that they're humble. I think 34 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: that they at certain points in times in their life, 35 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: they have to understand that it may take a minute 36 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: to figure out who they are, and that's completely okay. 37 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: We're all a work in progress, and I think growth 38 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: is a big part of what we do as a 39 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: band and our connection with our audience, whether they've been 40 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: there from the very very beginning or they're just finding 41 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: out who we are. There's such an intensity between the 42 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: relationship of the band and the audience because they know 43 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: what we're trying to do, especially in the music on record, 44 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: but also the live performances are an experience. One of 45 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: the main things I do a shine Down show is 46 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: we intro first two songs. After that, I asked the audience, 47 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: if this is your first time seeing shine Down, raise 48 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: your hand, don't be shy, and continuously eighty percent of 49 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: the audience, no matter where we are, continues to raise 50 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: their hand, which shows us that it's growing. But then 51 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 1: I tell everybody to look to the left and look 52 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 1: to the right and know that the person next to them. 53 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: You may have not met each other until tonight's show, 54 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,679 Speaker 1: but that's all gonna change now. So everybody turned to 55 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: your neighbor. I want to see you high five in 56 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 1: each other, shaking hands, tell everybody it's awesome to see 57 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: him at the show, and that kind of breaks the 58 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: ice with everyone and it just becomes this experience. Okay, 59 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: let's you know, there's a lot of stuff there. Let's 60 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: start with the mental health component. So how did you 61 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: get motivated to address that? I think I got it 62 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: motivated to address it because growing up I was a 63 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: bit I don't want to say necessarily that I was ostracized, 64 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: but I was not the cool kid. I was also 65 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: the weird kid. You know. I grew up in a 66 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: very sports driven family, and I was always artsy. I 67 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: was always I mean, I started writing songs when I 68 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: was ten years old, and you know, for for me, 69 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: I think that what I had to understand about, you know, 70 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: who I was is I had to be honest that 71 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: I loved music. That um, it was a part of 72 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: who I am. I remember, like my mom and my dad, 73 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: as I got older, you know, I started to try 74 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: to tell them what I wanted to do and what 75 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: I wanted to be. And when you have this dream 76 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: or this desire to be something that maybe they've never 77 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: seen before, or maybe it doesn't run in the family 78 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: or what have you. It was just important to me 79 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: anyway to be able to express who I was and 80 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: the vision that I had. You know, when you're fifteen 81 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: years old and you start writing songs, and these songs 82 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: are the lyrics, and these songs are extremely deep, and 83 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: it takes a lot to kind of go there. And 84 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: my parents would like grab these journals and look at 85 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: it and stuff like that, and they would just be like, 86 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 1: what is going on, like where's all this coming from? 87 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: And it was just a part of who I am. 88 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: If I answered that question and write I think I 89 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: got no. No, Okay, that's all. That's all very interesting 90 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: and we'll get back to some of the what you're 91 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: seeing there. But you say in your lyrics and the 92 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: image of the band, you're very focused on mental health. 93 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 1: Is that based on personal experiences, have you contemplated suicide, 94 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: attempted suicide? What's going on there? So the mental health 95 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: of everything in the band and why it's important to 96 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: us is that we've lived through it on a daily basis. 97 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: I have a substance abuse addiction that a lot of 98 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: people know about, and you know, it's kind of out there. 99 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: And I appreciate this this interview right now because you're 100 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: going you're going at me with some pretty heavy material. 101 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: It's making me really kind of center myself here and 102 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: think about this. I want to do everything in my 103 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: power to the best of my ability and the band 104 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: the best of our ability, to bring the suicide rate 105 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: in America and the rest of the world down because 106 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: we've lost so many family members, we've lost so many friends. 107 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: And I'm talking about even when I was a teenager. 108 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: There's a lot of kids. And even when I got 109 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: older and left home and went out to pursue what 110 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: I do now, you would get the phone call that 111 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: this person passed away, my friend from here passed away. 112 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: How do they die? They killed themselves, And it just 113 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: seemed like it was it would pile on and it 114 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: would get worse and worse and worse. And so the 115 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: music that we talk about, it's one of the reasons 116 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: why I name the band shine Down. I name the 117 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: band shined Down because it's the yin and the yang. 118 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: Everything that's good has a little bit of bad, and 119 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: everything that's bad has a little bit of good. There's 120 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: a balance inside of it all, and sometimes you have 121 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: to fall into a hole to figure out how to 122 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: get out of it. So there is always there's this 123 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: empathy in our music about triumph, about triumph and about 124 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: overcoming and about being strong and going after that. But 125 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: there's also those moments in the song where it just 126 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: feels like sometimes like you don't understand why certain things 127 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: are happening to you. And you know, growing up, I 128 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: know that kids today and adults today, everything that social 129 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: media brings to you, everything that's put on a platform. 130 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: Everything that's exposed. Everyone has an opinion, you know. That's 131 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: constantly motivating everyone. And my son just turned fifteen years 132 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: old and I always tell him, I say to him, remember, 133 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: when it comes to the phone, when it comes to 134 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: the Internet, you're in control of the device. The device 135 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: does not need to be in control of you. And 136 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: you know, listen, It's just something I think that I was. 137 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: I was born with this part of me that, however 138 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: I was feeling, I have to write it down. Whatever 139 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: I experienced growing up, the scenarios, the situations that I've 140 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: been in, all of those things that are very very 141 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: hardcore factors for me. I put them in these songs. 142 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: And the mental health aspect of it is goes back 143 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: to what I said earlier, which was we're all a 144 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: work in progress. It's the reality. I don't want people 145 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: to think just because in a rut or just because 146 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: one moment in their life they're having a hard time, 147 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: that it's going to be like that forever. I also 148 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: don't want them to think that they can just slide by. 149 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: You've got to figure out a way to overcome. You 150 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: have to build adversity into your core, into your being. 151 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: Into your soul and that takes time. And I just 152 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: don't want people to give up on themselves more than anything. 153 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: And I don't want people to give up on this planet, 154 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: in this world, because it's an amazing place, but it 155 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: can also be very devastating. Like this is not an easy, 156 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: this life that we all lead. It's not necessarily always 157 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 1: easy to navigate. So I try to create this soundtrack 158 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: for people that keeps them on their road. And if 159 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: they want to change directions on their road, that's totally fine, 160 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: but just don't give up going down those roads. Okay, 161 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: let's go back to the beginning. You're from Lochsville, Tennessee 162 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: or that area, totally what the environment was for you 163 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: growing up? So the environment was very country, even though 164 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: the University of Tennessee is there. It was very kind 165 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: of backwoods, very good old boy, good old girl type 166 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: of you know upbringing. You know, we all had four 167 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: seasons that was nice, you know, lakes and mountains. It 168 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: was a beautiful place to grow up and live. But again, 169 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: I'll be honest, being the weird kid didn't bode for me. 170 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: All always so good, you know, I was in sports. 171 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: My dad was a part of the school system, and 172 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: my mom worked for the banking system and probably the 173 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: one person in my life that gave me my work ethic. 174 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: My drive comes from my mother's mother, which is my 175 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: grand an who I talk about all the time. So um, 176 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: you know, I was pretty much raised by the three 177 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: of them and my other grandmother who passed away before 178 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: the first record from Shinedown was able to be released. 179 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: But it was a good upbringing. I mean, it was 180 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 1: a cool town for what it was. You know. I 181 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: went through high school, never went to college or anything 182 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: like that. I was out of the house at eighteen 183 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 1: years old. But I had a pretty pretty normal upbringing, 184 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: nothing through out of the ordinary. Oh okay, how well 185 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: did you do in school? And did you have friends? 186 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: I was terrible in school at the stuff I didn't 187 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: care about. If I cared about it, I was really 188 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: really good at it, so music and art. I did 189 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: great at math and arithmetic, and you know, English and 190 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: some of the other things I didn't do as well. 191 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: I did pretty good when I was in high school. 192 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: I did good in sociology though in psychology I was 193 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: good in that, And yeah, I had friends. But I'll 194 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: tell you an interesting thing from elementary school to middle school, 195 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: all the same kids. We all like I went to 196 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 1: school with all the kids in elementary school, that I 197 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: went to school with all the kids in middle school, 198 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: and then we all went on to high school together. 199 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: And everybody was cool with each other in elementary school, 200 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: and then everybody got kind of mean in middle school. 201 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: It's always middle school, like that's when everybody's like everything's changing, 202 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: your body's changing. It's always a wild, kind of weird 203 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: time for any kid. And then the interesting thing was 204 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: for me, I went to a different school that I 205 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: was zoned to my ninth grade year, so I actually 206 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: didn't go to the school I was supposed to go to, 207 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: and I got kicked out of the school that I 208 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: did go to, so I had to go back my 209 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: sophomore year to the school that I was zoned to 210 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: go to. Why'd you get kicked out? I just I'm 211 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: gonna say something, and some people are gonna be like, really, 212 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: but this is the only way I know how to 213 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: say it. I found myself. I got kicked out because 214 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 1: I found myself, Okay, a little and what I'm a 215 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: little deeper. Yeah, well, I guess the way I was 216 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: doing everything that I could to be the good kid 217 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: from my parents and my mother and my dad, and 218 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: because they were just wonderful, great people, and you know, 219 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: they got this kid that they don't necessarily know what 220 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: they I was not easy to raise, let's just put 221 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: it that way, and so my parents wanted me to 222 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: have and I got bullied a lot and got beat 223 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 1: up a lot, and I had to kind of Middle 224 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: school was tough for me. I was one of those 225 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: very awkward moments in life where my body was changing, 226 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: and it just was one of those things where every 227 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: day I go to my I remember my eighth grade year, 228 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: every day was you know, I had to kind of 229 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: fend for myself. It wasn't pretty. So you asked me 230 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: about did I have friends. I had friends in elementary school, 231 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: and then I had friends in sixth grade. But by 232 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: the time I got to seventh and eighth grade, I 233 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: just became like a punching bag. And so my mom 234 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna take you to a different school, 235 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: like let's let's let's start over, let's try something else. 236 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: So we go to to this other school and I 237 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: had a huge gross spurt over the summer of my 238 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: eighth grade year, so I got really tall, and I 239 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: had a terrible acne when I was in eighth grade, 240 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: and so I actually was one of the first two 241 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: hundred people in North America to take a drug called acutane, 242 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: and I was one of the youngest to take it. 243 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: But it worked because I had a severe acne and 244 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: it worked and it cleared my cleared my skin up. 245 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: And so mind you, I grew, I got a little 246 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: bit better looking. I was on the football team and 247 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: the wrestling team. But I just remember one day just 248 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: thinking to myself, and this was in the middle of 249 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: the school year. I was like, this isn't who I 250 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: I am. Like this this is just not who I am. 251 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: And like I was into punk rock. I was having 252 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: to kind of um hide what I was listening to. 253 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: I couldn't really bring it into the house. You know, 254 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: nothing against my parents, they just didn't understand, you know, 255 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: like what was going on with their kid. You know, 256 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: there was somebody in our in our family that had 257 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: a music background. So I kind of like came out 258 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: of the blue. And so I changed and I got 259 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: defiant and I got hard to deal with, and I 260 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: stopped caring about like what people thought, Like I just 261 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: wanted to be me. It didn't mean I was like 262 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: a punk kid and I was mean or I was 263 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: violent or aggressive or anything like that. It just I 264 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: wanted to come out of my shell, you know. And 265 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: I didn't want to wear khaki pants, and I didn't 266 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: want to wear like a button down shirts and stuff 267 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: like that. I wanted to wear white T shirts. I 268 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: had a chain wallet, you know. I wanted to wear 269 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: you know, baggy jeans. You know. I wore air walks 270 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: instead of like nikes, just things like that. And I did, however, 271 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: rubbed the principle the wrong way too many times and 272 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: I got kicked out. And then that made it to 273 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: where I had to go to the school I was 274 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: already zoned for. But when I went to my sophomore year, 275 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: what was kind of interesting about that was I had 276 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: been gone for a year, so like they remembered this 277 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: kid that was kind of chubby and short and had 278 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: really really bad acne. All of a sudden, I came 279 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: back to this school and I had grown two and 280 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: a half feet, and you know, I looked completely different, 281 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: Like people didn't know it was me when I went 282 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: back to school. So it kind of was like I 283 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: was able to have a bit of a do over. 284 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: I guess you would say, but all those people that 285 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: I went to school with, now I'm back into school 286 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: with them, I didn't necessarily care to like reach out 287 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: and befriend them or what have you. I was much 288 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: more of a loner and I was much more to myself. 289 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: But I will tell you this, the cool thing was 290 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: by the time we got to our senior year, all 291 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: of the people that I went to elementary school with 292 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: in middle school and all that, everybody just kind of 293 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: let their guard down. I remember this very vividly my 294 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: senior year, and everybody was cool with each other. Like 295 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: when we graduated, like we just kind of forgot about 296 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: all of that stuff and we just everybody. We were 297 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: all friends. It didn't matter if you were a jock 298 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: or if you were you know, if you were into sports, 299 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: or you were an academic, or you were popular or 300 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: you weren't popular, or you know, if you were the 301 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: weird kid or whatever. Everybody was just cool with each other. 302 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: So I do remember that being a nice way to 303 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: kind of finish out that part of my high school years. Okay, 304 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: so what was your exposure to music and what drove 305 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: you to write lyrics. It's pretty instantaneous from the from 306 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: the moment I was born. As soon as I could read, 307 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: words affected me in a very very powerful way. And 308 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: then as soon as I heard music and I could 309 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: understand melody that a good friend of mine once told me, 310 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: he said, you don't pick the music, The music will 311 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: pick you. It's what you do with it after that, 312 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: And so language was a big deal for me, and 313 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: poetry was a big deal to me. I started writing 314 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 1: poetry when I was ten years old. Writing lyrics came 315 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: a little bit later. But the music aspects of things, 316 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: it kind of started with like the Beach Boys I remember, 317 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: and Whalen Jennings and Willie Nelson. That was kind of 318 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: the early stuff. And these were like songs that had 319 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: melody to them, but they also like very clever lyrics, 320 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: especially the Whalen Jennings stuff and the Willie Nelson stuff 321 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: like that was really deep, like the things that they 322 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: were talking about in those songs. And Johnny Cash. I 323 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 1: remember I found I found Johnny Cash when I was fourteen. 324 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: It really kind of changed my life. And I didn't 325 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: listen to the Beatles until I was twenty four years old. 326 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: I remember the very first time I heard the White Album. 327 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: I was in my mid twenties so, but very early on, 328 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: just language A was a big deal for me. It's 329 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: at this point in time, are you a reader? Yeah, 330 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: I mean not reading like necessarily novels or books of 331 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: that nature. But what I was reading was a lot 332 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: of I was reading a lot of music magazines. I 333 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: was also reading a lot of it. You gotta understand 334 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: something too, Like it was hard for me to go 335 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: into a store, you know, even before I was a 336 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: teenager and get kind of the books that I wanted 337 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: to read, and if you were at a library, you 338 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: could only get so like my mom would only allow 339 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: me to get so many things. And then by the 340 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 1: time I got to middle school, there were certain things 341 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,959 Speaker 1: that we had to read. When I got to high school, 342 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: that's when I read some of the classics, Like I 343 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: remember remember reading Moby Dick. When I got to to 344 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: high school. I remember all the Canterbury Tales that you 345 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: had to read, which is like some really really heavy stuff. 346 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 1: But Shakespeare was a big deal. I read a lot 347 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: of Shakespeare. I can't remember a lot of it to 348 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: this day, but I just I remembered I was. It 349 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: was a lot of Shakespeare at that time, and I 350 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: read a lot of Nietzsche because Nietzche is a huge 351 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: part of my life too, just from a and why 352 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: I say that is he had a tormented life. I'm 353 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: not saying that my life is tormented. But when I 354 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: read the quote that he penned, which says, without music, 355 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: life would be a mistake, I was like, there's my guy. 356 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: That's that's my guy. And I just kind of went 357 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: down a rabbit hole all of his work to just 358 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: kind of see what was going on in his mind. 359 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: Him and Edgar Allan Poe. You know, I loved the 360 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: you know, if you stare into the this long enough, 361 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: the abyss will stare back. It was always those types 362 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: of individuals. What turned John to punk rock? And when 363 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: did you form bands? Punk rock? Was? When did I? 364 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember the exact time that had happened. 365 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: I went backwards a little bit. The album that got 366 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: me into punk rock was Appetite for Destruction. And I 367 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: have to set the scene a little bit because I 368 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: was in fifth grade and there was music class and 369 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: on Fridays, the teacher was very kind of open and 370 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: very free and what have you. She was rad I 371 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: can't remember her name, but I just remember like she 372 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: wasn't a normal music teacher for a bunch of fifth graders, 373 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 1: so she would let students bring in tapes and what 374 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: have you, and you could on Fridays, everybody would to 375 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: listen to different music. So there was like rock and roll, 376 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: there was pop music, there was hip hop. It was 377 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff. And I remember this kid brought 378 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: an appetite for destruction. This was like nineteen eighty nine, 379 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: and she was just kind of doing her own thing. 380 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: I'll never forget it. She was just doing her own thing. Meanwhile, 381 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: like It's so Easy came on and it was just 382 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: like all the other kids weren't even really paying attention, 383 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: but I was like, what did you just say? And 384 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: then like welcome to the Jungle, and then like mister Brownstone, 385 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna listen to the whole record. I just remember 386 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: all the kids were all running around doing other stuff, 387 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: and I was just sitting in front of this stereo 388 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: in this classroom listening to what was coming out of 389 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: these speakers. Because I had never heard anything like it 390 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: in all my life, and a lot of it had 391 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: to do with the language and then so that kind 392 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: of got me into I wanted to know more about that, 393 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 1: and you know Operation IVY. I remember finding out about them, 394 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: and then Fugazi was next, and then Minor Threat, and 395 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: then the Dwarves were after that, and I'm trying to 396 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: remember Lloyd was in there. But when I found uh, 397 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: when I found bad Religion, like that changed everything too 398 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: once again, very lyrical, like really intense, really thought out, 399 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: really uh like spell like spell bounding. Um, as far 400 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: as you know punk rock is concerned, I think that 401 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: you know Bad Religion, as far as the lyrics are concerned, 402 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: that's the most profound punk rock band on the planet 403 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: in my mind. Okay, so you get turned onto all 404 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: this music? When do you become a performer? Fourteen thirteen 405 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: fourteen um I h. I started playing in a group 406 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: of guys. I remember my very first performance in front 407 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,479 Speaker 1: of an audience was a talent show. Um. I think 408 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,919 Speaker 1: it was sophomore year when I went back to the school. 409 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: I was zoned for me and like three other kids 410 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: got together. I remember the drummer though, was like five 411 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: years older than everybody else and he had a drum 412 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: kid and he had like a garage and he had 413 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: an extra bass and a bass amp, and he had 414 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: like this really old crate amp and a guitar, and 415 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: there were two other kids from school. We didn't really 416 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: know each other that well. I can't remember how we 417 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: actually got hooked up, but I remember we just I 418 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: remember being in that garage at that house, and they're 419 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: like they didn't know how to play anybody's music, Like 420 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: we didn't know how to play any any songs or 421 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: anything like that. So we made up our stuff, and 422 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: I mean it was awful. It was terrible, and we 423 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: were just like banging on this stuff and it was 424 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: very very you talk about punk rock, it was worse 425 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: than punk rock. I think that Henry Rollins would have 426 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: probably punched us all in the anyway, but or he 427 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: might have dug it, who knows, but it was very 428 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: like it didn't matter. It was probably a good thing 429 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: that we weren't trying to play other people's music. We 430 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 1: were trying to kind of go off of each other 431 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: and see if we could create something together. And I 432 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: remember we wrote this song that was decent enough to 433 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: like hold a melody, and I just remember going on 434 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: stage and having absolutely no fear at all at this 435 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: talent show at our school with these other guys, and 436 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: the other guys were like really nervous, which makes it 437 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: really funny now in my career because I'm terrified every 438 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: night before I go on stage twenty years doing this 439 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: and before the curtain drops, I'm terrified. But I remember 440 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: that specific moment in time, I had no fear whatsoever. 441 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: It's like I wanted it more than anything in the 442 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: world because it was a packed house auditorium. There was 443 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: like three hundred kids in there, and I just went 444 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: for it. And I just remember kind of everybody being 445 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: a little dumbfounded, didn't really know what they were watching. 446 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: They saw this kid walking around school and stuff like that, 447 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, I just opened my 448 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: mouth and you know, it probably wasn't great, but it 449 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: was me and it was five. Remember it was primal, 450 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: and I remember it was real. And then after that, 451 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 1: I towards the back half of like, um my, my 452 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: junior and senior year, I got in a band called 453 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: Blind Thought in Knoxville, Tennessee. Um we did some local 454 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: stuff around the area. The band was kind of based 455 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 1: out of Farragut, Tennessee, and uh, it did that, and 456 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: then I got into this other band called Dreeve, which 457 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: was actually the first band signed to Atlantic Records. That 458 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: was signed for ten months and then it was dropped 459 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: or we were dropped. And then about two months later 460 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: I was signed to a development deal with Atlantic Records. 461 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: And then that okay, okay, a little a little bit slower, 462 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: my bad. What do your parents say when you don't 463 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: go to college since your father was in the school system. Um, 464 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: I think they knew it wasn't gonna happen. Like I 465 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: think they knew, I don't. Here was the thing about me. 466 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: I was not afraid of hard work. So at fourteen, 467 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 1: I remember my parents Back in the day in Tennessee, 468 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: you had to sign there had to be an order 469 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: for the state. But I'm trying to remember what the 470 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: year would be, it doesn't matter. Fourteen years old, I 471 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: go to my mom and my dad and I'm like, 472 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: I want to I want to work. I want a 473 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: job like on the weekends, like during the school during 474 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: the school year and in the summer. I want to 475 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: be able to work at least forty hours. You know. 476 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: I said this at fourteen years old, and they were like, 477 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: do you think you can get a job. And I 478 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: was like, well, I can get a job if you 479 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: signed this paper. You know, I'd gone to the library 480 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: found out about this paper that you could get from 481 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: the state if your parents signed it, it it would allow 482 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: you to work and this and that and the other. 483 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: You can only do like ten hours a week during 484 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: the school year or something like that, but you could 485 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: still go. I wanted to make my own money, and 486 00:27:55,440 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: they they did it. And so, you know, so for me, 487 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: the whole thing about college and the whole thing about school. 488 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: You know, the one thing my parents would say about 489 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: me is, you know, as soon as I could get 490 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: a job, I had a job. And then when I 491 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: was when I was sixteen, you know, I just I 492 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: worked as much as I possibly could. And then you know, 493 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: by the time I was eighteen, I was working, you know, 494 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: sixty hours a week, two different jobs. So my work 495 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: ethic was always there. I just didn't want to go 496 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: to school anymore. So I don't think they really I 497 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: was always I always at a job. Okay, so when 498 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 1: was the dream to become a rock star kindled? And 499 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: did you graduate from my school? So yeah, this is 500 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: my future? Yeah, I mean, but here's the thing. About me. 501 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: The rock star thing has never been me. If I'm 502 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: a rock star or I'm a performer, I'd rather be 503 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: considered that in a lot of ways. Whatever my set 504 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: time is, that's when that switch goes off. But the 505 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: other twenty hours out of the day, twenty two hours 506 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: out of the day, I'm very, very high profocused. I'm 507 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: very you know, centered in, and I'm able to juggle 508 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: a lot of different things. But the I guess you 509 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: would say the performer aspect of me, the quote unquote 510 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: showmanship side of me, is only turned on when it 511 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: needs to be turned on. Okay, so you're in this band. 512 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: How does the band get a deal with Atlantic Records? Well, um, 513 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: talking about Shakespeare, it's kind of Shakespearean in a way. 514 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: So we were we were based out of Knoxville, Tennessee, 515 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: and at that time we were we were playing all 516 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: over like we were actually playing regionally, so we weren't 517 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: just playing in Knoxville. We were going out of state 518 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: by you know, anywhere between two hundred fifty three hundred miles. 519 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: You know, we'd go out and play anywhere that we could. 520 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: It was it covers or originals or both. It's all original, 521 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: No covers, nothing. It was all original and we had 522 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: and we did. We had two records come out, both 523 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: were on cassette and both were on compact disc. And 524 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: the drummer befriended a young lady. And the best way 525 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: I can tell everybody this because it's such a unique 526 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: story and I'm kind of in the birthplace of all 527 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: of this right now, the studio that I'm in at 528 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: the moment in Orlando, Florida, because I'm actually in J R. 529 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: R Studios in Orlando. And so basically, the drummer started 530 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: hanging out with this young lady, and this young lady 531 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: had a boyfriend and he was in a band signed 532 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: to Atlantic, and the young lady and I were friends 533 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: as well. And I'm getting to it. Everybody's like, Okay, 534 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: where is it going. But this young lady would turn 535 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: out to be the mother of my fifteen year old son, 536 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: And so the reality is that we were playing all 537 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: over Knoxville, and my son's mother, Ashley, she was engaged 538 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: to a drummer from another band on Atlantic Records, and 539 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: so our drummer in the band that I was in, dreaw, 540 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: he gave her our CD and so the A and 541 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: R of that band, she gave this disc to him, 542 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: and basically this is what happened, and who that was 543 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: was a guy named Steve Robertson, who was the A 544 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: and R of Shin Down and has been the A 545 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: and R for Shine Doown for the last two decades. 546 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: We've also been on Atlantic Records for the last two decades, 547 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: which in this day and age as an anomaly, also 548 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: been with the same manager, Bill mcgafey for the last 549 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: twenty one years. So very family oriented group. And so 550 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: Stevo gets the CD from this young lady who is 551 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: the girlfriend of the drummer of a band that he 552 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: signed and he's working with on Atlantic, doesn't really listen 553 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: to the CD, throws it. This is back in the 554 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: day when like A and R guys would have one 555 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: hundred CDs a day sent to them, because it was 556 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: like twenty years ago. And so one day he's kind 557 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: of going through old stuff, what have you, trying to 558 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: clean everything out this other He comes across the CD 559 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: that he had kind of thrown off to the side 560 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: or what have you. He puts it in and he 561 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: goes to like the third song on the record, and 562 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: I let out this huge note in this song, and 563 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: so he contacts her says, who is this? Who are 564 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: these guys? Where are they from? He then Steve flies 565 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: to Knoxville, we set up a show. He brings Michael Binhorn, 566 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: who if people don't know who Michael Bienhorn is. He 567 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: produced Celebrity Skin for Whole, he did What Hits by 568 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: the Red Out Chili Peppers, he did super Unknown by 569 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: Sound Garden. I can stop there anyway. So he brings 570 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: Michael Biinhorn to Knoxville and we have a showcase. Then 571 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: we go out with him that night, and then basically 572 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: we end up getting a record contract, essentially a demo deal. 573 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: And then the demo deal was there for about ten months, 574 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: and we were rehearsing and rehearsing and rehearsing, and eventually, 575 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: after around ten months, the band was dropped. And then 576 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: about two months went by and then I got a 577 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: phone call from Stevo and Steve says, I want to 578 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: sign you again, and I'm like, he just dropped me, 579 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,959 Speaker 1: and he goes, why, I know, I want to sign 580 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: you to a development deal, which I didn't know what 581 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: that meant. And so it was really kind of created 582 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,720 Speaker 1: by Ahmed Urnigan who was the founder of Atlantic Records, 583 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: God Rest his soul, and who was an amazing influence 584 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: on my life on so many levels. So the deal 585 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: was six months essentially Stevo had with me for us 586 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: to start producing and sending the record label actual songs, 587 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: like songs that were starting to show actual growth, like 588 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: actually that there could be something there, because he essentially 589 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: told me, he said, I know that you're in a band, 590 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 1: and I understand that brotherhood, and I understand what you're 591 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: trying to do and what have you. But you have 592 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: to understand my side of this. I think you're a performer, 593 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: and I think you're a songwriter. I think you're with 594 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: the wrong people. I need to put you in front 595 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: of the right people to see if my hunch about 596 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: what I think you are and who I think you 597 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: are is real. Because I never wanted to be a 598 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: solo artist. I always wanted to create a band. And 599 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: I signed that deal with him, and then three years later, 600 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:36,320 Speaker 1: Shine Down released its debut album Okay when the original 601 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: band got dropped, did you think your future was over? No? 602 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 1: I had none of that. The thing was what was 603 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: interesting was this Steve did do something very unique right 604 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: before the band got dropped. He sent me. Granted, I'd 605 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: never been on a plane before, so he goes. He 606 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: I remember, he called me, he goes, have you ever 607 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 1: been on a plane. I'm like no. He's like, well, 608 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna send you to Los Angeles because I want 609 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: you to work with two songwriter And I was like 610 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 1: what and uh. So that the very first time I 611 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: got on a plane. I went out all the way 612 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 1: from Tennessee to Los Angeles and I worked with John 613 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: Shanks and I worked with Tommy Simms, two wonderful, wonderful songwriters. 614 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: And what I was able to do was, you know, 615 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: work with these guys, and we wrote. Me and Tommy 616 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 1: Simms wrote three songs together. Me and John wrote two together. 617 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: The unique thing about being with John Shanks was the 618 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: fact that Vinnie Caliuto was a friend of his. We 619 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: were in Henton Studios, and those first demo, those two 620 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: demos of those songs have Vinny Caaliudo playing drums on him, 621 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: which is crazy, um but uh. And then he sent 622 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: me to Nashville. I went, I came back to Tennessee 623 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: with those songs. Steve had him. Then he sent me 624 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: to work with Desmond Child and I wrote a song 625 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 1: with him and uh, and then you know, I get 626 00:36:53,920 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: back and that's when the band gets dropped, which was 627 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: very you know, it was interesting. I knew what, you know, 628 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: you could figure out what was happening as I'm saying it. 629 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: But he needed to see if there was something there 630 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: if he put me with some other people, because it 631 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: wasn't like those guys wrote these songs like. It was 632 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: very much like when I got into the room with 633 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: these guys, these were songwriters, but it was like they 634 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: looked at me and they said what do you got? 635 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: And I'm like, what do you mean? And they're like, 636 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: what do you got? What are you working on? You know, 637 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: sing me something? So I would just sing off the 638 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: cuff and I would just write like on the spot, 639 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: and we were just you know, writing a song and 640 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: you're just doing it. It was just evolving, and I 641 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: hadn't had that with the band. The band it was like, 642 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 1: you know, you get in a room, it's just bang 643 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 1: bang bang bang. There's no time to like work out 644 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: melody and work out lyrics. It was all on. Everybody 645 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: had kind of like a thing. You just had to 646 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 1: whatever was presented to you. That's just what you had 647 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: to work with, and so it was just a different experience. 648 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: So no, I wasn't bummed out when when I got dropped, 649 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, we I was a little it was peculiar 650 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 1: in a way. It was kind of like, wow, I'm 651 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 1: surprised it lasted that long. I was, you know. And 652 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: but then he called and he was just like, I 653 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: want to resign you. And then he was like, this 654 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: is what I want to do, Okay, so walk us 655 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: through that. And now he ended up in Florida. Well, 656 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: a lot of that was when I say that it 657 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: was trains, planes and automobiles with Steve robertson, it was 658 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 1: exactly that. I don't know if I was John Candy 659 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: or he was, or who was Steve Martin, But anyway, 660 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: what I mean by that to everybody is we went 661 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: on the road together. Any songwriter he could put me 662 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,720 Speaker 1: in front of he did. He literally for the first 663 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: year from the development deal. I think me and him 664 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: were on the road together probably two hundred and eighty 665 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: days out of that first year, and we stayed in 666 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 1: the same hotel rooms together. We rode the same buses together, 667 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 1: took the Thame flights, a lot of rental cars, a 668 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: lot of miles on the highway, and he would put 669 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 1: me in front of anyone that would take a session 670 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: with me, and he worked me. I'd never stopped And 671 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: that lasted ultimately for about two years. And ultimately what 672 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: got me to Florida was Steve because Steve was based 673 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: here in Orlando. He was working obviously with Atlantic Records, 674 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,800 Speaker 1: but they were allowing him to be based in Orlando 675 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: so that he could go out in the field and 676 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: scout music and he could go where he needed to go. 677 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: They didn't feel that it was necessary for him to 678 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: be in New York and so that led us to 679 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: Tony Battaglia. And so when I met Tony Battaglia, who 680 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: was a huge part of the first two albums and 681 00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 1: he's a part of the and he's a part of 682 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: number three two, Tony had called me. It was written 683 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 1: by myself and Tony on Sound of Madness album. But 684 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 1: Tony was probably the first songwriter that he saw something 685 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 1: in me, and he really took me under his wing. 686 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 1: And so for the better part of I guess it 687 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: was about a year into that signing and then I 688 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,319 Speaker 1: met Tony and then the next year was a lot 689 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: of just working diligently with Tony, and then Stevo would 690 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: get a line on, Hey, this guy is working with 691 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 1: this guy. This dude's a bass player, this guy knows 692 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: another guitar player, but this dude's a really, really great drummer, 693 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,399 Speaker 1: or this band. It was interesting how it was all 694 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: put together, and it was very organic, and it was 695 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: very much the universe is real. But when I said that, 696 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,719 Speaker 1: Steve was literally doing the definition of what an A 697 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,720 Speaker 1: and R is supposed to do. He was really doing 698 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 1: artist development. He was networking at all hours of the day. 699 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 1: He never took any time off, like he was always 700 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 1: trying to find certain people. So it was like there 701 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 1: were all these different auditions all the time. So that 702 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: led me to meeting which would essentially be Brad Stewart. 703 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: And Brad Stewart came in when I started to work 704 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: with him on songs and what have you. And he 705 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: had a drummer friend and we were working with him 706 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,160 Speaker 1: for a while, And he had a guitar player friend 707 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: and we were working with that for a while. So 708 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,360 Speaker 1: what happened was that led me to Jacksonville, Florida. I 709 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: was working in Orlando with Tony and then I went 710 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: up to Jacksonville and then made in the Shade Studios, 711 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 1: which is no longer there, which is owned by Melody, 712 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 1: was owned by Judy van Zante Ronnie van Zant from 713 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:59,399 Speaker 1: Leonard Skinner, that's his widow, and in Jacksonville. So we 714 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,320 Speaker 1: were getting studio time there. And so what was happening 715 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 1: was we were going into the studio and there was 716 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: this really really tall, black haired, you know, really lanky dude, 717 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: kind of intimidating looking, but really but but cool, cool looking, 718 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, but very like interesting guy. 719 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 1: And that was Jason Todd, and he was listening to 720 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 1: all this stuff that was going on with you know, 721 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: me and Brad and these other players and what have you. 722 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: And essentially there was a guy, a studio engineer named Pete, 723 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: and Jason knew Pete because Pete was working at the 724 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: studio and he was doing our demos and stuff that 725 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,560 Speaker 1: we were working on. And Jason went to him one 726 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 1: day after he had heard me singing and things of 727 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: that nature, and he said, I don't care what you 728 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: gotta do, you gotta get me an audition with that 729 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:57,440 Speaker 1: with that guy. And so he did, and then me 730 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: and him started working with each other. And then that 731 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: became me and Brad and Jason going down to floor, 732 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,280 Speaker 1: going down to Orlando, working with Tony like non stop. 733 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: And then we started putting all these songs together and 734 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 1: developing all these songs and writing all these songs. And 735 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: you know, Rick Botto came into the fold, and then 736 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 1: Bob Marlette came into the fold. But I should say 737 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 1: the most interesting thing of it all was it was 738 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: the three of us at this point in time. But 739 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: I it was like, and it's like this for every band. 740 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,319 Speaker 1: I feel, what is the hardest member of a band 741 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 1: when you're when you're creating a band, what's the hardest 742 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,440 Speaker 1: position to figure out? I know everybody says a singer. 743 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,799 Speaker 1: It's not a singer, it's a drummer. The drummer is 744 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: the hardest thing to find. And so we auditioned seven drummers, 745 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:56,399 Speaker 1: and I'll never forget there was a young name, young 746 00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 1: young man named Matt Brown. He's known very well and 747 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 1: like the Florida circuit, phenomenal drummer, incredible drummer. And he 748 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,800 Speaker 1: came in and he had gotten some of the demos 749 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and to work out this and 750 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: that and the other and so he comes into Maid 751 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,760 Speaker 1: in the Shade with us and what have you, and 752 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 1: he had some of the material and so he starts 753 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: to play. Granted, the other drummers that we had been 754 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,560 Speaker 1: working with at the time and trying to see if 755 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,840 Speaker 1: it was going to work this and that they were okay, 756 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: but like Matt came in and just like it was 757 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:38,799 Speaker 1: just a different animal. And so we actually were going 758 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: to offer the gig to Matt. We were all excited. 759 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:43,880 Speaker 1: We thought he was gonna be you know, stoked and 760 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 1: everything else. And I remember we met him at a 761 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: barbecue joint called Sticky Fingers and we're like, we want 762 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: to give you the gig and he was like, yeah, 763 00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: I don't want it. And we were like, okay, you 764 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: tell us, why do we do something wrong? Did we 765 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 1: say something? He goes, absolutely not. I think you guys 766 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,960 Speaker 1: are awesome. It's just not my style of music. It's 767 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 1: just not really my thing. But then he goes, however, 768 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:21,120 Speaker 1: I have somebody that I think is one hundred percent 769 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,879 Speaker 1: perfect for you, And so I was like, well, who 770 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 1: is it? And he's like a gentleman by the name 771 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: of Barry Kirch, And so literally about a week later, 772 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,040 Speaker 1: he gave us Barry's number. I started talking to Stevo 773 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 1: about it. We talked to the band about it, and 774 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 1: you know, the guys were getting at this point in time, 775 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: like everybody was getting frustrated, and I just was trying 776 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:43,759 Speaker 1: to tell everyone just calm down, it's gonna be all right, 777 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,000 Speaker 1: Like let's let's give this guy a shot. And I'll 778 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:51,840 Speaker 1: tell you what's interesting. Barry was number seven. And what's 779 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 1: even more interesting is Barry's birthday is the same day. 780 00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 1: He shares a birthday with my dad. And there were 781 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 1: just all these things that lined up all of a sudden, 782 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 1: like none of these other drummers had anything. It was like, 783 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,560 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it's like seven snake guys. And 784 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,800 Speaker 1: then he's got my dad's birthday. I was like, Okay, 785 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:14,240 Speaker 1: this is interesting, and lo and behold, this brother happened 786 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 1: to be a program director for Planet Radio in Jacksonville, Florida. 787 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,720 Speaker 1: So who is the who is still the program director 788 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 1: for Planet Radio in Jacksonville, Florida, which is Chad Chumley. 789 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: So anyhow, Barry comes in, and Barry was completely different 790 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:38,680 Speaker 1: than everybody else because Barry came in with Holy Moly, man, 791 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,360 Speaker 1: Like I get chills thinking about this actually, because I 792 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,880 Speaker 1: remember when he came in, he knew all facets of 793 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,360 Speaker 1: like drumming, Like he knew how to play jazz, and 794 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,160 Speaker 1: he knew how to play like traditional style, and he 795 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 1: knew how to play like reggae and all these different things. 796 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,239 Speaker 1: And he funk and like inspired by Prince and all 797 00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,200 Speaker 1: these different things. So he added all these wild elms 798 00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,880 Speaker 1: to everything. But he was very unassuming and very like 799 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: nice to be here and stuff like that. But when 800 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,200 Speaker 1: he came in and he auditioned it, you know, it 801 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:10,880 Speaker 1: was a it was a it was a wonderful audition 802 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,520 Speaker 1: because he was kind of like doing a lot of 803 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 1: different things. But I remember his very his real audition. 804 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,719 Speaker 1: The song forty five on the album Leave a Whisper, 805 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 1: that is the song that's been heard for the last 806 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:29,080 Speaker 1: twenty years. The drum take on that song on that 807 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 1: record is Barries demo drum track. Really, yes, and that's 808 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:42,400 Speaker 1: his audition that that that drum track is Barry's first 809 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 1: time playing. And really we showed him the song you 810 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,200 Speaker 1: know and everything, and then we were like, just come 811 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 1: in here and play it, and we just all looked 812 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,439 Speaker 1: at each other and but that that that drum take 813 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,279 Speaker 1: on leave a Whisper on forty five, that's basically his 814 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:03,359 Speaker 1: that's his audition, and it was yeah, it was after that. Man, 815 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,080 Speaker 1: he was the guy. Okay, this band is not playing 816 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:15,319 Speaker 1: out live? Is limit records keeping everybody alive? No, no, now, 817 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,760 Speaker 1: you you have to like Judy helped keep me alive 818 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,480 Speaker 1: during this time. I'm gonna be totally honest with you. 819 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 1: I had run out of money because and Steve was 820 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,560 Speaker 1: working on it like Steve was because we gotta understand something. 821 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,400 Speaker 1: At that point, we had a drummer, we could record, 822 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:36,520 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, we had the songs 823 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,480 Speaker 1: and everything ready. So it was time to go to 824 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,440 Speaker 1: Los Angeles. So we had a budget to go to 825 00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,880 Speaker 1: LA and all this. But before that happened, there was 826 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:48,000 Speaker 1: like an eight month nine month window where like nothing 827 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,360 Speaker 1: was happening except we were just practicing and trying to 828 00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,640 Speaker 1: get ready and we were writing songs and songs and 829 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:54,759 Speaker 1: you know, me and Barry were getting to know each 830 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 1: other and all these types of things and what have you. 831 00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:58,920 Speaker 1: But I didn't have any more money. So I actually 832 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 1: had to go home to Knoxville for about two weeks. 833 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,520 Speaker 1: But then I had to do sessions back in Jacksonville. 834 00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,920 Speaker 1: So I was driving back and forth from like Jacksonville 835 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,960 Speaker 1: to Knoxville, like, you know, staying at twenty five dollars 836 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,560 Speaker 1: a night Motel six you know this, and then the other. 837 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:18,239 Speaker 1: And then Judy found out about this and found me 838 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,480 Speaker 1: and said, well, actually she didn't say anything. She just said, 839 00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,440 Speaker 1: when's the next time you're going to when's the next 840 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,200 Speaker 1: time you're going back to Knoxville. I was like probably 841 00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:30,319 Speaker 1: tomorrow night. She's like, when are you supposed to come 842 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,920 Speaker 1: back here? And I was like, well, I mean if 843 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,480 Speaker 1: I Judy, it's not your problem. And she was like, 844 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,239 Speaker 1: I didn't ask that, and she was like when what 845 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:40,920 Speaker 1: do you need to do here? And I told her 846 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:42,399 Speaker 1: what I needed to do and she was like, how 847 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,440 Speaker 1: long do you think I'm like until they call us 848 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,719 Speaker 1: to LA Probably like six months. It ended up being 849 00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,560 Speaker 1: eight months, but I just threw out a number, you know, 850 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,840 Speaker 1: I just did six months, and she was like, she 851 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:56,839 Speaker 1: handed me a key, and she handed me a like 852 00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:00,239 Speaker 1: a garage door opener, and she gave me a and 853 00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,759 Speaker 1: she gave me a like a posted note with a 854 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 1: number on it, and she was like, this is the 855 00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,799 Speaker 1: guest house to my house. This is the gate you 856 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:12,520 Speaker 1: go in, it's yours. There's no furniture in there. There's 857 00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:19,239 Speaker 1: a stove, there's a microwave and you know, refrigerator, you know, 858 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,120 Speaker 1: but it's a place to stay. And so she housed 859 00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:26,279 Speaker 1: me for eight months rent free, and I told her 860 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,839 Speaker 1: that I would That's a totally different story down the line, 861 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 1: but I told her. I was like, I have no 862 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,400 Speaker 1: idea how I'm going to pay you back, but I 863 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,480 Speaker 1: promise you I'll pay you back one day. And inadvertently 864 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,120 Speaker 1: when the simple man thing happened. And I call it 865 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,440 Speaker 1: a thing because it wasn't a planned thing. At the time, 866 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,800 Speaker 1: she owned fifty one percent of the Leonards Ginnered catalog, 867 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,160 Speaker 1: and I remember when that got released and she had 868 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 1: the ownership of half the catalog. I remember looking at 869 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 1: her going, I told you, I'll pay you back. Okay, amazing. 870 00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:56,880 Speaker 1: So you go to Los Angeles. What's the experience of 871 00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,920 Speaker 1: making the first record? Good back? Because a lot of 872 00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,680 Speaker 1: people say I was green and if I knew better, 873 00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:03,839 Speaker 1: I would have taken work control. How was it for you? 874 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,399 Speaker 1: It was an absolute blast. It was the most fun. 875 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,480 Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, it couldn't have been a better experience. 876 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,080 Speaker 1: We were in Los Angeles. We were raising hell. We 877 00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,239 Speaker 1: didn't care. We were twenty two, twenty three years old, 878 00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,840 Speaker 1: you know, we were just having the best time it was. 879 00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,799 Speaker 1: It was amazing and honestly when we were in when 880 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,880 Speaker 1: we were there, we got super lucky. We worked again, 881 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,480 Speaker 1: going back to going back to Henson Studios. That's where 882 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,440 Speaker 1: we did a bulk of the first record. Bob Marlette 883 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,440 Speaker 1: was the producer. There's three producers on Levea Whisper and 884 00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,879 Speaker 1: there's three mixers, so Bob Marlette had the lion's share 885 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,840 Speaker 1: of the album production wise, But then Tony Battaglia is 886 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:47,640 Speaker 1: on there for the mix and the production of forty 887 00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,480 Speaker 1: five and also a version of Burning Bright, and then 888 00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:54,319 Speaker 1: Rick by Otto as a producer on three songs on 889 00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 1: that record as well, and then for the Bob Marlette material, 890 00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,719 Speaker 1: Andy Wallace mixed his stuff. So there's a lot going 891 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,920 Speaker 1: on on that record. But the experience of being out 892 00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:06,920 Speaker 1: there with Bob like that was like the bulk of 893 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,319 Speaker 1: everything when we first got out there, and he was 894 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:14,320 Speaker 1: just great, and he had great engineers and just amazing 895 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,239 Speaker 1: people that we were able to work with because it 896 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,200 Speaker 1: was he Bob made sure that it wasn't like it 897 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,759 Speaker 1: wasn't stuck up, like yeah you're in LA, Yeah you're 898 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,960 Speaker 1: at Henston Studios, but your this is your first record, 899 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,320 Speaker 1: Like this is a celebration, Like you're supposed to ask questions. 900 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,200 Speaker 1: It's okay to ask questions. It's okay if you make 901 00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,040 Speaker 1: a mistake. Yeah, the clock's running, but who cares. You know, 902 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:36,719 Speaker 1: it's like we're gonna get what we need to get. 903 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: And I mean it really was. It was an absolute blast. 904 00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,520 Speaker 1: We had a great We had a great time. How 905 00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:48,480 Speaker 1: does McGathy get involved, McGaffey, You have to rewind it 906 00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:53,799 Speaker 1: a little bit. Steve. Oh again, Steve Robertson. I can't 907 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,880 Speaker 1: stress the amount of how important Steve Robertson is to 908 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,439 Speaker 1: this band and to this DNA of who we are. 909 00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:09,920 Speaker 1: He this was right before I think this was right 910 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:14,640 Speaker 1: about the time, and I know the clock's running right now. 911 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,279 Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember all the dates. It was probably 912 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:22,960 Speaker 1: right when we were still in a demo phase. We 913 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,399 Speaker 1: were still writing songs, like the band had just kind 914 00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,200 Speaker 1: of got going as far as like we we kind 915 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,000 Speaker 1: of got into a function way with each other and 916 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,680 Speaker 1: we were getting into a rhythm of songwriting, and STEVEO 917 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,040 Speaker 1: was like, I want you to go to New York. 918 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,640 Speaker 1: I want you to take a meeting with I want 919 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,520 Speaker 1: you to meet with a few people. I think there 920 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,759 Speaker 1: was four people I was supposed to meet. But the 921 00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,080 Speaker 1: very first person I wanted, a very first, very first 922 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:54,520 Speaker 1: person I met, excuse me, was Bill McGaffey at one 923 00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:59,800 Speaker 1: nineteen West twenty third Street, New York, New York. I 924 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:05,480 Speaker 1: remember I walked in and he didn't have a lot 925 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:07,640 Speaker 1: of time. And for people that don't know who Bill 926 00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:13,960 Speaker 1: mcgathey is, he is the rock and roll mogul, like 927 00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,879 Speaker 1: he is the real thing. Like you don't get more 928 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,239 Speaker 1: real than Bill mcgathey. And Bill's the last one with 929 00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:25,000 Speaker 1: a soul and Bill, you know, I remember Bill always 930 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,000 Speaker 1: telling me from the from the beginning. He was always 931 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,160 Speaker 1: straight up with me, and he said, remember it's about 932 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,680 Speaker 1: the music one hundred percent of the time. Don't ever 933 00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,719 Speaker 1: lie because you got to remember the lies. But the 934 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:40,840 Speaker 1: thing was, I walk into this. I mean it's like 935 00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,600 Speaker 1: Willie walking in the chocolate factory for musicians, like I 936 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:48,120 Speaker 1: walked in to this. I mean it was indy as 937 00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:52,160 Speaker 1: Indy could get the entire walls, the ceiling, like how 938 00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,200 Speaker 1: high the building was. Everything. You walk into this room 939 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,000 Speaker 1: and there's death side by side with each other. They're 940 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,839 Speaker 1: catty corner to each other. There's no falls up between him. 941 00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,400 Speaker 1: People are on the phones, The phones are ringing, music's blasting, 942 00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,800 Speaker 1: there are gold, platinum, diamond records everywhere. People are yelling 943 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,560 Speaker 1: at each other like they're I mean, it was like 944 00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,440 Speaker 1: it was like the New York Stock Exchange. It was crazy, 945 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,680 Speaker 1: you know. And they're they're getting records, they're getting ads, 946 00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,440 Speaker 1: they're doing the thing. Man, They're they're they're running the business. 947 00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,840 Speaker 1: They're they're really they call it the music business for 948 00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,239 Speaker 1: a reason because it's still a business. And it was 949 00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,840 Speaker 1: my first introduction to that where it was just mind blowing. 950 00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:34,600 Speaker 1: And so he he comes up and he's very um, 951 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:36,640 Speaker 1: you knew who he was, Like I didn't have a 952 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:38,719 Speaker 1: picture of him or anything, but when he walked up, 953 00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:40,719 Speaker 1: I knew who he was because you could just tell. 954 00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:44,279 Speaker 1: It's just the way he carried himself. And so he's like, 955 00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,040 Speaker 1: let's go in the back, and we go in the back. 956 00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,319 Speaker 1: He's kind of like this conversation we're having right now, 957 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,439 Speaker 1: kind of asking me about certain things, but he looked 958 00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:53,880 Speaker 1: at me. At a certain point in time, He's like, 959 00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:56,640 Speaker 1: and at the whole time we're back there, people are 960 00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:00,080 Speaker 1: yelling for him, and he's screaming, I'm busy, I'm busy. 961 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,560 Speaker 1: I'll call him back. I don't care. Like it's just 962 00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,239 Speaker 1: in between me trying to stay on track with our conversation, 963 00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:10,239 Speaker 1: and I had to stop because it was just so 964 00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:12,480 Speaker 1: much chaos. And finally I just looked at him. I said, Bill, 965 00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:17,719 Speaker 1: why should you be my manager? Like I'm supposed to 966 00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,040 Speaker 1: meet with all these other people today, you haven't, like 967 00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,320 Speaker 1: I haven't really had a chance to ask you anything. 968 00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,080 Speaker 1: You're asking me everything and I'm in your world and 969 00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:27,040 Speaker 1: this is really intimidating, man, But why should you be 970 00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,920 Speaker 1: my manager? And he knew the label that I was on, 971 00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,040 Speaker 1: He knew more about me than I did about him. 972 00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:37,000 Speaker 1: And he looked at me and he said, Son, I'm 973 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,080 Speaker 1: gonna tell you this right now. I am the only 974 00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,080 Speaker 1: person that will be able to get you through that 975 00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:47,239 Speaker 1: Atlantic record system. You can take that with you. I 976 00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,800 Speaker 1: gotta go. And then he got up and started yelling 977 00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:51,839 Speaker 1: at people and everything else, and I, like, I came 978 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:53,680 Speaker 1: in there on my own. I just was and they 979 00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:57,400 Speaker 1: were like so I remember somebody looked at me, you 980 00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,880 Speaker 1: can go now. I'm like okay, and I just left. 981 00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,439 Speaker 1: But there was something about that moment in time, man, 982 00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,640 Speaker 1: where it was so rock and roll and it was 983 00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,759 Speaker 1: so like real to me, like what was going on 984 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,799 Speaker 1: and that energy in that room and like they were 985 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,880 Speaker 1: in it, like like I saw it with my own eyes, 986 00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:16,920 Speaker 1: and it was like, this is real. This guy is 987 00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,240 Speaker 1: not joking. This guy's real. I called Stevo from a 988 00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:24,760 Speaker 1: pay phone outside of one nineteen West twenty third and said, 989 00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:29,000 Speaker 1: I'm not going to any of the other meetings I wanted. 990 00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,200 Speaker 1: I want this guy. And then I went back to 991 00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:34,320 Speaker 1: the Guardia and had to wait eight and a half 992 00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:37,680 Speaker 1: hours to get on a plane and come back to Jacksonville. 993 00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:41,240 Speaker 1: And there you go, and the rest is history. Bill 994 00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:45,960 Speaker 1: mcgaffe's a busy guy, started out radio promotion. They have 995 00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:49,280 Speaker 1: multiple locks. He's obviously done a great job for you, 996 00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:53,560 Speaker 1: but can you get a hold of them. We're gonna 997 00:57:53,600 --> 00:58:00,280 Speaker 1: be here for four hours, which if Bob, and I'm 998 00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:01,960 Speaker 1: happy to deal with you. I'm having the best time 999 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:05,120 Speaker 1: with you right now. Um. I talked to him for 1000 00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:10,760 Speaker 1: two and a half hours today, like that guys my 1001 00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,520 Speaker 1: second father. So you can essentially get him whenever you 1002 00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:18,600 Speaker 1: need him at any time. And by the way it 1003 00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,800 Speaker 1: works both ways, he can get me whenever he needs 1004 00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,200 Speaker 1: me to Like it's it's twenty years man, and and 1005 00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,320 Speaker 1: and I'm I'm looking forward to the next twenty you know. 1006 00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:30,760 Speaker 1: It's uh, there's a We've been through a lot, man, 1007 00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:32,280 Speaker 1: We got a lot more to go through. But no, 1008 00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,760 Speaker 1: it's even from even from Jump Street man. And I'll 1009 00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:37,800 Speaker 1: give you a story real quick, and I'll make it short. 1010 00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:42,000 Speaker 1: But that first tour that we did where we went 1011 00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,920 Speaker 1: out he was managing Three Doors down at the height 1012 00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:49,360 Speaker 1: of their career um and we went out there with them. 1013 00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,360 Speaker 1: And it was only supposed to be for three weeks. 1014 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:52,920 Speaker 1: And this is in two thousand and three, so this 1015 00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,560 Speaker 1: is twenty years ago, and we were only supposed to 1016 00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,360 Speaker 1: be on this tour for about two weeks. We ended 1017 00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:00,280 Speaker 1: up being on this tour with Three Doors for nine months. 1018 00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,000 Speaker 1: We went from being the first of four to buy. 1019 00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,760 Speaker 1: The last two months of that nine month run we 1020 00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,320 Speaker 1: were main support. I learned a lot from that band. 1021 00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,000 Speaker 1: I learned a great deal from Brad Arnold about being 1022 00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,600 Speaker 1: a front man and just respecting your crew and all 1023 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,400 Speaker 1: these different things. But I will fast forward here and 1024 00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:21,240 Speaker 1: I'll never forget the record to come out. We were 1025 00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,160 Speaker 1: on the road. We were making some noise, but it 1026 00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:27,120 Speaker 1: was a little funky, and I remember he came out 1027 00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:31,520 Speaker 1: to where the Stone Pony was. We were playing the 1028 00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,800 Speaker 1: arena there, the same arena where Jim Morrison got arrested 1029 00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:38,040 Speaker 1: for indecent exposure up in Jersey. I think it's I 1030 00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,560 Speaker 1: think it's gone now. But it was first of four. 1031 00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:44,800 Speaker 1: We walked out there. There was eight thousand people, but 1032 00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:48,080 Speaker 1: there was only like three thousand in the building. Walked 1033 00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:50,400 Speaker 1: out there, and you know, we were the first band 1034 00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:52,640 Speaker 1: of the night, and Bill hadn't seen us play live 1035 00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,919 Speaker 1: in like a few months, you know what I mean. 1036 00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:00,920 Speaker 1: And it was terrible. We were a I mean, we 1037 01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:06,000 Speaker 1: were awful. And I knew it too. I knew it 1038 01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:08,360 Speaker 1: because we had partied the night before and my voice 1039 01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,480 Speaker 1: was shot and everything else, if all the things that 1040 01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:14,960 Speaker 1: you shouldn't do, you know. And we got off stage 1041 01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:20,880 Speaker 1: and I find him out in the mezzanine of the 1042 01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:23,800 Speaker 1: arena and everybody had gone in to go watch Three 1043 01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:28,040 Speaker 1: Doors and he was all by himself. I walked up 1044 01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:31,280 Speaker 1: to him, and he looked at me and he goes, hey, 1045 01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:36,040 Speaker 1: And I looked at him and I said, please don't 1046 01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:41,120 Speaker 1: leave me. I know it wasn't good. I know we 1047 01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:46,440 Speaker 1: need to do better. I apologize. I promise you I 1048 01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:51,000 Speaker 1: will do better. Please don't drop us, and please don't 1049 01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,560 Speaker 1: give up on us, and please don't leave me. And 1050 01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:56,480 Speaker 1: he looked at me, and he'll tell you to this 1051 01:00:56,560 --> 01:01:01,000 Speaker 1: day that he didn't hesitate. But if I was him, 1052 01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:04,360 Speaker 1: I would have, like anybody would have, I would have 1053 01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:07,920 Speaker 1: taken a little bit longer of a pause. But he didn't. 1054 01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,360 Speaker 1: And he looked at me and he goes, I'm not 1055 01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:15,640 Speaker 1: going nowhere. Let's get to work. That's exactly what he said. 1056 01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:26,880 Speaker 1: He said, I'm not going nowhere and let's get to work. Okay. 1057 01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:30,000 Speaker 1: Was there a turning point or was it just long 1058 01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:34,880 Speaker 1: hard work of the ladder, long hard work up It's 1059 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,280 Speaker 1: still that. It's still a mountain man. Every every every 1060 01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,720 Speaker 1: single record, everything we do. I'll give you an example. 1061 01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:45,880 Speaker 1: We had one of the best our touring schedule last year. 1062 01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,320 Speaker 1: We broke twenty six merch records last year. You know 1063 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,840 Speaker 1: for us, you know, we were pushing the envelope. And 1064 01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:54,600 Speaker 1: by the way, I'm gonna say this because it's true, 1065 01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,000 Speaker 1: Like that's because of all of the foundation that we have. 1066 01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:01,040 Speaker 1: And why I say that is it is a thousand 1067 01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:03,920 Speaker 1: percent the fan base, but it's also one thousand percent 1068 01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,080 Speaker 1: you know. Look, it's terrestrial radio in the very, very beginning. 1069 01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:09,480 Speaker 1: It's still trestrial radio to this day. Even with the 1070 01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,040 Speaker 1: consumption the music and the way that we platform everything 1071 01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:15,200 Speaker 1: and streaming and all the way digital playlist, all those 1072 01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,560 Speaker 1: types of things and how you consume the music, it's 1073 01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:20,240 Speaker 1: still at the end of the day, if you mean 1074 01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,560 Speaker 1: what you mean as a musician, as a songwriter, as 1075 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:27,000 Speaker 1: a performer, there's always going to be a ladder, there's 1076 01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:29,600 Speaker 1: always going to be a mountain. You have to constantly 1077 01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:33,160 Speaker 1: outdo what you've already done. That does not change. You 1078 01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:38,880 Speaker 1: have to be willing to go through just unparalleled obstacles 1079 01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:41,720 Speaker 1: in this business. Anybody that's listening to this right now, 1080 01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:44,920 Speaker 1: you can never phone it in ever, You can never 1081 01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,040 Speaker 1: ever have the mentality of I've arrived. You might as 1082 01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:50,680 Speaker 1: well pack your bags. And the other thing too is 1083 01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:52,760 Speaker 1: if you ever fall out of love with it, then quit. 1084 01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,880 Speaker 1: You can always come back to it once you want 1085 01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,080 Speaker 1: it badly enough, you know, what I mean, But don't 1086 01:02:58,160 --> 01:02:59,920 Speaker 1: let it. You know, I don't think that this industry 1087 01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:03,160 Speaker 1: to kill you either. You know, you got you gotta understand, like, 1088 01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:04,640 Speaker 1: if this is what you want and this is who 1089 01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:08,160 Speaker 1: you are, then drive, get in, get in the vehicle 1090 01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:13,160 Speaker 1: and drive. But yeah, there was no magic bullet to anything. 1091 01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:17,760 Speaker 1: There's no magic, you know, there's no method. It's just tenacity, 1092 01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:22,000 Speaker 1: just unadulterated, pure tenacity. Okay, you're on the road for 1093 01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,360 Speaker 1: nine months with freet doors down. You know, from the 1094 01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:28,840 Speaker 1: outside it looks very glamorous, but from the inside, okay, 1095 01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:32,120 Speaker 1: you got the same people you've been hanging with, in 1096 01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:35,120 Speaker 1: your case for not that long, but at least, you know, 1097 01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:38,760 Speaker 1: for a year or two. And you go on stage, 1098 01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:41,720 Speaker 1: you get this incredible reaction, and if you're lucky enough 1099 01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:44,240 Speaker 1: you have a bus, it takes a long time to 1100 01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:47,400 Speaker 1: come down. You drive to the next city. This is 1101 01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:50,800 Speaker 1: why a lot of performers do drugs. So you're now 1102 01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:54,760 Speaker 1: having this experience, how do you cope into what degree 1103 01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:59,080 Speaker 1: to alcohol and drugs come in pretty much right there 1104 01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:05,480 Speaker 1: from the start, it's yeah, man, it's I mean, it 1105 01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:09,600 Speaker 1: came in first record, first time we got I mean, 1106 01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:14,240 Speaker 1: but it was happening. What I would always try to 1107 01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:18,000 Speaker 1: maintain in the studio was that I never went to 1108 01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:21,720 Speaker 1: the studio high or drunk. Like if I was in 1109 01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:23,160 Speaker 1: there to work and I was in there to work 1110 01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:24,640 Speaker 1: on a song, or I was in there to sing 1111 01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,600 Speaker 1: or do a track, I was always clearheaded. Even in 1112 01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:29,920 Speaker 1: the worst of times where I was at the you know, 1113 01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:32,400 Speaker 1: kind of in the throes of my addiction, I still 1114 01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:36,320 Speaker 1: never walked on stage high and drunk. I might have 1115 01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:39,080 Speaker 1: been a little hungover from the night before, but I 1116 01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,960 Speaker 1: never ever purposely got high and then went on stage. 1117 01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:44,320 Speaker 1: I never ever purposely got high, got drunk, and then 1118 01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:47,040 Speaker 1: went into a studio and then, knowing that I had 1119 01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:51,200 Speaker 1: to do I had a session. But when I wasn't 1120 01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:55,400 Speaker 1: on stage, you know, and you know, once my track 1121 01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:58,800 Speaker 1: was done or my studio time was done, it's just, 1122 01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,480 Speaker 1: you know, I immersed myself in that lifestyle. I mean, 1123 01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:04,600 Speaker 1: you're talking to a you're talking to an individual that's 1124 01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:08,920 Speaker 1: lucky to be alive from that world. But it's also 1125 01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:12,880 Speaker 1: you're talking to somebody that understands that. For me personally, 1126 01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:20,640 Speaker 1: I've been cleaned since March first of twenty sixteen. I 1127 01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:23,480 Speaker 1: got clean in two thousand and eleven. But I had 1128 01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:29,160 Speaker 1: to slip up in twenty fourteen. But the dynamic of 1129 01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,000 Speaker 1: all of that is what I had to learn more 1130 01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:34,000 Speaker 1: than anything, was the fact that there is another individual 1131 01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:37,000 Speaker 1: inside of my mind that does not want to hang 1132 01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:40,560 Speaker 1: out and party with me. Ultimately, he's trying to kill me. 1133 01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,360 Speaker 1: You know, I admire people people that go in with 1134 01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:49,480 Speaker 1: substance abuse, twelve step programs, rehab, if you need it, 1135 01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:56,760 Speaker 1: all those elements, try everything that you can to survive. 1136 01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:58,560 Speaker 1: That's how I would say it. But at the end 1137 01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:02,520 Speaker 1: of the day, you have to understand that a lot 1138 01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:05,760 Speaker 1: of people's rock bottom. Sometimes they don't come back from it. 1139 01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:10,360 Speaker 1: I've had some serious rock bottoms. I'm lucky to be alive, 1140 01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:14,120 Speaker 1: and I don't take it for granted. But what I 1141 01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:17,200 Speaker 1: would say is for me, I had to do it. 1142 01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:22,120 Speaker 1: I had to do it inside of myself. I often 1143 01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:25,360 Speaker 1: tell people that I didn't do drugs today, I didn't 1144 01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:27,480 Speaker 1: drink today. I have no idea what I'll do tomorrow. 1145 01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:29,320 Speaker 1: That part of my life I have to do one 1146 01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:30,919 Speaker 1: day at a time. But of a really good friend 1147 01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:34,040 Speaker 1: of mine, a young lady who is still to this day, 1148 01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:37,760 Speaker 1: she's a great friend of mine. Her name is Teresa. 1149 01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:39,800 Speaker 1: She said something to me that was probably the most 1150 01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:43,000 Speaker 1: profound thing when it comes to my addiction of the 1151 01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:47,040 Speaker 1: forty five years that I've been on this earth. She 1152 01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:52,480 Speaker 1: said to me, in the throes of my worst, she said, 1153 01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:55,760 Speaker 1: you have a lot of people that love you. You 1154 01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:57,960 Speaker 1: have a lot of people that depend on you. I'm 1155 01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:59,280 Speaker 1: gonna tell you something. I want you to listen to me me. 1156 01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:04,480 Speaker 1: I want she listened me good, I go okay. She said, 1157 01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:11,840 Speaker 1: you are way more dangerous when you're sober. When you 1158 01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:14,320 Speaker 1: are clear headed and you are focused and you are 1159 01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,400 Speaker 1: locked in, that is when you are the most dangerous. 1160 01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:23,960 Speaker 1: And what she meant by that was the idea that 1161 01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:27,320 Speaker 1: being inebriated is that I'm this fun, loving guy and 1162 01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:29,520 Speaker 1: that everything's cool and everyone wants to be around me, 1163 01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:33,439 Speaker 1: is the complete opposite of what the reality is. You're 1164 01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:37,480 Speaker 1: just not meant to be that that other part of 1165 01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:40,680 Speaker 1: you that's inside you is not trying to have fun 1166 01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:44,000 Speaker 1: with you, it's trying to end you. But when you 1167 01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:48,080 Speaker 1: are clear headed and when you are sober, that's when 1168 01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:51,000 Speaker 1: you're the most ferocious. And that really it was like 1169 01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:54,200 Speaker 1: a light bulb like literally went off. So when I 1170 01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:56,720 Speaker 1: think back to the younger days and all of the 1171 01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,160 Speaker 1: drug use and everything of that nature. And I'm just 1172 01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:03,840 Speaker 1: lucky to be a five. And of course with drug 1173 01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:08,600 Speaker 1: and alcohol comes sex. Yeah, then were you partaking there too? 1174 01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:13,920 Speaker 1: That was the interesting thing about me. Um, No, not really, Um, 1175 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:17,519 Speaker 1: that was ever my jam. It really wasn't. Like. The 1176 01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:21,200 Speaker 1: one thing about me is that the women in my life, UM, 1177 01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:25,120 Speaker 1: a lot of them. Uh, there's not that many of them, 1178 01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:28,960 Speaker 1: and I'm still ninety percent of them. I'm still friends 1179 01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,160 Speaker 1: with them and I still talk to him. I was 1180 01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,559 Speaker 1: always monogamous. Um. You know, if I loved you and 1181 01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:40,000 Speaker 1: I was in a relationship with you, then you know. 1182 01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:42,599 Speaker 1: Me and my son's mother, you know, we were never married, 1183 01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:44,760 Speaker 1: but we have a great relationship. We were together for 1184 01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:49,599 Speaker 1: a long time and I adore her and I appreciate her, 1185 01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:51,519 Speaker 1: and we have a great relationship and we have an 1186 01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:57,280 Speaker 1: amazing son. Um and I respect her wholeheartedly. Um. She's 1187 01:08:57,320 --> 01:09:00,280 Speaker 1: a huge part of why why I'm here. You know, 1188 01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,240 Speaker 1: she I mean, if I think back, I mean she 1189 01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:04,680 Speaker 1: was the one that handed the CD. She's kind of 1190 01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,519 Speaker 1: the one that she kind of passed the tor you know, 1191 01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,880 Speaker 1: passed the torch. You know, in a lot of ways, 1192 01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:12,200 Speaker 1: but the women in my life. I have such a 1193 01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:15,800 Speaker 1: massive respect for women on so many levels because of 1194 01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:20,640 Speaker 1: the women that raised me. And like my mother. You know, 1195 01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:22,200 Speaker 1: my mother was the one that taught me to like, 1196 01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:26,400 Speaker 1: you know, don't shake hands, you know, like a whimp. 1197 01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:28,160 Speaker 1: You know. She was like, you know, when you shake 1198 01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:30,000 Speaker 1: someone's hand, whether it's a girl or a you know, 1199 01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,439 Speaker 1: a male or a female, like you have to be stern. 1200 01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:34,320 Speaker 1: You have to look him in the eye, like you know. 1201 01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:35,840 Speaker 1: She taught me how to be a gentleman. But she 1202 01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:37,519 Speaker 1: also taught me how to be tough, how to stand 1203 01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:40,000 Speaker 1: up for myself, how to be who I am, um, 1204 01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:42,040 Speaker 1: you know, how to be prideful and what have you. 1205 01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:44,160 Speaker 1: But also how to help each you know, help people 1206 01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:47,000 Speaker 1: out and and be a good man. You know, my 1207 01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:50,000 Speaker 1: her mother, my granny, she gave me all of my 1208 01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:54,200 Speaker 1: work ethic. You know. Um she's ninety one years old 1209 01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:58,479 Speaker 1: and she's beyond the spitfire. I mean, she's still all there, 1210 01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,080 Speaker 1: which is amazing because she gives you know, she's she's 1211 01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:03,439 Speaker 1: an incredible individual. And that might be a lot of 1212 01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:06,679 Speaker 1: the reason why I've just always had an immense amount 1213 01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:11,760 Speaker 1: of respect for women. And you know, that type of 1214 01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:13,479 Speaker 1: thing like orgies and all that kind of stuff and 1215 01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:15,320 Speaker 1: a bunch of women and all that said. Never really 1216 01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:18,639 Speaker 1: was my That never really was my thing. So why 1217 01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:22,200 Speaker 1: did it end with the mother of your son? We 1218 01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,719 Speaker 1: just weren't meant to be together, not in that way. 1219 01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:28,120 Speaker 1: We have a beautiful son. We co parent together very well. 1220 01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:33,599 Speaker 1: She's a beautiful woman inside and out. I adore I 1221 01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:37,240 Speaker 1: think she's I think she's amazing. You know, it's just 1222 01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:39,559 Speaker 1: we're just not. You have to be an adult and 1223 01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:43,120 Speaker 1: look at the situation, and you know we're better as 1224 01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:47,960 Speaker 1: co parents than we are together. And you know, it 1225 01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:50,920 Speaker 1: doesn't change my respect for her, and you know, my 1226 01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:54,760 Speaker 1: appreciation for her. And I think it's vice versa. Did 1227 01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:56,719 Speaker 1: you want to have a kid or will you freaked 1228 01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:59,880 Speaker 1: out about having a kid? No, our son was planned. 1229 01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:04,720 Speaker 1: Like I remember the time too. She was like, I 1230 01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:09,920 Speaker 1: know you don't want to get married, but I wanna. Yeah, 1231 01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:11,880 Speaker 1: it was both of us, you know. She was just like, 1232 01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:15,760 Speaker 1: I know you don't want to get married, but I 1233 01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:17,599 Speaker 1: would really like to have a child, and I would 1234 01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:20,120 Speaker 1: really like to have a child with you, So would 1235 01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,200 Speaker 1: you think about it at least? And she never pressed me. 1236 01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:24,720 Speaker 1: It was just like we thought about it and had 1237 01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,160 Speaker 1: to think about it hard, and you know, so did I. 1238 01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:31,920 Speaker 1: We were young, Um, but yeah, I mean it was 1239 01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:34,960 Speaker 1: a conscious decision, you know, from the two of us. 1240 01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:41,680 Speaker 1: And would you have any more children? I'm focusing on 1241 01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:47,360 Speaker 1: the one. I'm not anytime soon. Um. I have such 1242 01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:50,599 Speaker 1: an affection from my my son. You know, my son 1243 01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:54,879 Speaker 1: is fifteen years old, and you know, he's six feet tall, 1244 01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:58,720 Speaker 1: and he's playing basketball and he's he's so wild and 1245 01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:04,640 Speaker 1: awesome and so many different levels, Like I'm blessed that 1246 01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:08,920 Speaker 1: I have him, And you know, I would want to 1247 01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:13,320 Speaker 1: be able to focus and concentrate on my children. And 1248 01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:16,160 Speaker 1: the one thing about my son is that from the 1249 01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,439 Speaker 1: moment that he was born. And I'm saying this for 1250 01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:23,479 Speaker 1: a reason because it's important to know this. You if 1251 01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:25,600 Speaker 1: you're going to bring a child into the world, you 1252 01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:28,479 Speaker 1: need to be there for them. You need to focus 1253 01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:32,000 Speaker 1: on being a parent because it's not their responsibility, it's 1254 01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:35,960 Speaker 1: your responsibility. And until he's eighteen years of age, he's 1255 01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:39,320 Speaker 1: my responsibility. But you know what, even after that, he's your's, 1256 01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:42,720 Speaker 1: my son. So I need to be able to concentrate 1257 01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:46,160 Speaker 1: on him. And you know, the younger years of his life. 1258 01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:49,679 Speaker 1: I wasn't there as much, you know, not physically, anyway, 1259 01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:53,479 Speaker 1: I was there, and I've always been there financially and 1260 01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:57,360 Speaker 1: supportive in all of those elements. And I will fly in, 1261 01:12:57,880 --> 01:12:59,320 Speaker 1: you know, when I can't, even if I can only 1262 01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,040 Speaker 1: fly in for like a day or two days, just 1263 01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:03,760 Speaker 1: to be with him, I'll be with him. And he's 1264 01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:06,599 Speaker 1: never known any different, you know what I mean. So 1265 01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:09,000 Speaker 1: the thing is is that some people might think that 1266 01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:12,559 Speaker 1: we have an interesting relationship, and sometimes people will be like, 1267 01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, you should probably spend more time with your son, 1268 01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:18,160 Speaker 1: and I have to politely tell them me and my son, 1269 01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:22,879 Speaker 1: and our relationship is between me and my son because 1270 01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:28,000 Speaker 1: when I'm with him, we don't talk about the band. 1271 01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:31,360 Speaker 1: When I'm with him, we don't talk about me. When 1272 01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,760 Speaker 1: I'm with my son, it is only him. That's the 1273 01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:36,640 Speaker 1: only thing I care about. That's the only thing I 1274 01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:38,880 Speaker 1: want to be He's the only thing I want to 1275 01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:42,559 Speaker 1: concentrate on. And the other side of that, too, is 1276 01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:44,799 Speaker 1: it's not that he doesn't know that I'm in a band, 1277 01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:46,960 Speaker 1: but because I've never made it about me from the 1278 01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:52,240 Speaker 1: moment he was born, it doesn't really necessarily mean anything 1279 01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:54,680 Speaker 1: to him, you know. I want him to have his 1280 01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:56,559 Speaker 1: own life. I want him to be able to grow 1281 01:13:56,680 --> 01:14:00,320 Speaker 1: up and not have this kind of you know, your 1282 01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:02,800 Speaker 1: dad is this or what have you? I keep a 1283 01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:05,160 Speaker 1: low profile that going back to the beginning of our 1284 01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:07,679 Speaker 1: talk with each other, you know, being a rock star, 1285 01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,280 Speaker 1: I'm only a rock star or a performer for the 1286 01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:13,839 Speaker 1: for the set time. You know, I'm I'm pretty modest, 1287 01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:18,120 Speaker 1: you know, when I'm not on tour. What do your 1288 01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:24,760 Speaker 1: parents say about your success? Very proud, like like really 1289 01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:30,400 Speaker 1: really proud. You know. Um, I think that people should 1290 01:14:30,479 --> 01:14:32,600 Speaker 1: understand this too. This one of the biggest songs in 1291 01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:36,840 Speaker 1: our catalog. You know. We just released a brand new 1292 01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:41,160 Speaker 1: song off of the new record, which is our we 1293 01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:44,240 Speaker 1: It's crazy to say this. We just released our thirtieth 1294 01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:47,360 Speaker 1: single as a band in the last two decades. It's 1295 01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:52,960 Speaker 1: mind blowing to me. And I go back to a 1296 01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:55,760 Speaker 1: song called second Chance. And the reason I go back 1297 01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:57,839 Speaker 1: to that song is it's a big song in our catalog. 1298 01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:03,559 Speaker 1: But that song came from when I found out that 1299 01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:06,599 Speaker 1: I got dropped. My parents had found out I got 1300 01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:10,360 Speaker 1: dropped from the first record contract, but then I had 1301 01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:12,800 Speaker 1: been resigned, and my mom was just like, what do 1302 01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:15,840 Speaker 1: you mean? You've been resigned and now you're leaving to 1303 01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:20,240 Speaker 1: go where. She had a hard time kind of wrapping 1304 01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:22,519 Speaker 1: her head around it, and I remember we kind of 1305 01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:26,360 Speaker 1: got into it with each other before I, before I 1306 01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:30,120 Speaker 1: left for this what would become. You know, I had 1307 01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:32,800 Speaker 1: left home because the first band I was signed, and 1308 01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:34,880 Speaker 1: I was in Knoxville when I got signed, so we 1309 01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,120 Speaker 1: did all the work in night. So I was still home. 1310 01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:40,080 Speaker 1: I was still there, but now I was gonna leave. 1311 01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:46,600 Speaker 1: And I remember sitting the Sunday before I left to 1312 01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:52,519 Speaker 1: go to Florida to meet Steve. We used to when 1313 01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:56,720 Speaker 1: I was a kid. She would um on Sundays. She 1314 01:15:56,720 --> 01:15:59,559 Speaker 1: would go to McDonald's and she get McDonald's breakfast on 1315 01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:03,679 Speaker 1: Sunday and we'd have like we'd have pancakes together, and 1316 01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:05,200 Speaker 1: you know, we do hash browns and sauces, all that 1317 01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:07,080 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. It was like our thing growing up 1318 01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:09,880 Speaker 1: on Sunday. Remember I woke up on a Sunday and 1319 01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,680 Speaker 1: I could smell it in the house and I like 1320 01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,639 Speaker 1: walked upstairs to the to the kitchen and my mom 1321 01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:18,080 Speaker 1: had it all laid out like it was just for 1322 01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:20,200 Speaker 1: me and her, and she was like we had breakfast 1323 01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:24,360 Speaker 1: with me and I was like, yeah, it's very sweet. 1324 01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:27,920 Speaker 1: But here's the thing, And if I can tell you 1325 01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:30,799 Speaker 1: a little bit about my history for just a quick second, 1326 01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:34,040 Speaker 1: going back to being a hard kid to raise, I 1327 01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:37,720 Speaker 1: also got in trouble with the law in my hometown 1328 01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:44,640 Speaker 1: a lot. I was. I was a roughneck. And I 1329 01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:47,120 Speaker 1: think that it's important to kind of know that because 1330 01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:49,080 Speaker 1: my mom and my dad went through a lot with 1331 01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:52,840 Speaker 1: me and they loved me unconditional. So we're sitting there 1332 01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:56,720 Speaker 1: and we're having breakfast and we get kind of done. 1333 01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:58,519 Speaker 1: I can tell my mom's getting a little emotional. So 1334 01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:01,960 Speaker 1: I remember grabbing her hand and men like yeo, okay, 1335 01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,720 Speaker 1: and she looked at me and she said, I want 1336 01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:08,840 Speaker 1: you to get out of here. I want you to 1337 01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:14,200 Speaker 1: run as fast as you can go because I have 1338 01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:18,320 Speaker 1: no idea what this life you're searching for is or 1339 01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:20,639 Speaker 1: what it means, but I know it must mean everything 1340 01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:23,519 Speaker 1: to you because you're willing to sacrifice everything for it. 1341 01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:26,920 Speaker 1: But you can't stay here. You can't stay in this 1342 01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:29,280 Speaker 1: town because this town is going to swallow you up. 1343 01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:36,120 Speaker 1: And I remember her giving me permission. She said, whatever 1344 01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:41,559 Speaker 1: it is that you're going after it, go get it, 1345 01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:46,360 Speaker 1: you know, And don't. But but don't you dare stop? 1346 01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:51,320 Speaker 1: Go get it? And you know, years later, I'm sitting 1347 01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:55,679 Speaker 1: in a studio and I remember the first chord rang 1348 01:17:55,720 --> 01:18:00,880 Speaker 1: out when we were when we wrote it, and I 1349 01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:03,799 Speaker 1: just remember hearing the first couple chords of the chorus, 1350 01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:05,840 Speaker 1: and the very first thing out of my mouth was, 1351 01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:09,160 Speaker 1: tell my mother, tell my father. I've done the best 1352 01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:13,160 Speaker 1: I can to make them realize this is my life. 1353 01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:17,960 Speaker 1: I hope they understand. I'm not angry. I'm just saying 1354 01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:22,719 Speaker 1: that sometimes goodbye as a second chance, and I'm I'll 1355 01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:24,719 Speaker 1: get emotional about it, but I have no choice because 1356 01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:30,680 Speaker 1: I have to. But you know, she she gave me 1357 01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:35,160 Speaker 1: my second chance. You know that's why song. I think 1358 01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:41,680 Speaker 1: that song resonates with so many people. Um, but you 1359 01:18:41,680 --> 01:18:44,880 Speaker 1: know a mother's love, you know, for their son especially, 1360 01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:49,200 Speaker 1: you know what she had to endure to give me 1361 01:18:49,240 --> 01:18:53,000 Speaker 1: this amazing gift and to tell me that she goes 1362 01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:56,519 Speaker 1: me and your dad may not fully understand, but we're 1363 01:18:56,560 --> 01:19:02,439 Speaker 1: with you. We're on your team. Go get it. So 1364 01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:05,080 Speaker 1: when did you start to see some money from the 1365 01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:08,840 Speaker 1: band and what did you do with the money. I'll 1366 01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:11,240 Speaker 1: tell you this. I remember the very first time I 1367 01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:14,160 Speaker 1: remember the first time. I didn't have a publishing deal yet, 1368 01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:18,200 Speaker 1: and the first single was was Fly from the Inside. 1369 01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:21,680 Speaker 1: And me and my producer Dave, we're hanging out here 1370 01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:23,439 Speaker 1: right now. We were just talking about Fly from the Inside. 1371 01:19:23,479 --> 01:19:27,400 Speaker 1: I'm in the studio right now, the studio that played 1372 01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:29,599 Speaker 1: the first single for the very first time on air 1373 01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:35,160 Speaker 1: right now. See is how the universe is real. But 1374 01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:39,120 Speaker 1: I remember the first single was Fly from the Inside, 1375 01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:41,040 Speaker 1: and then it had been played. I mean I think 1376 01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:43,519 Speaker 1: it was made it to number five on the mainstream 1377 01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:46,439 Speaker 1: rock chart. But I didn't have a publishing deal. This 1378 01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:49,919 Speaker 1: is one of another thing with Bill McGaffey. Bill McGaffey 1379 01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:52,120 Speaker 1: had all of these like back in the day, like 1380 01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:56,040 Speaker 1: two between two thousand and two and two thousand and six, 1381 01:19:56,479 --> 01:20:00,240 Speaker 1: publishing companies were given out insane amounts of month money 1382 01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:03,080 Speaker 1: to like, brand new bands and what have you. And 1383 01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:05,559 Speaker 1: they were doing this because they knew they'd never recoup 1384 01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:09,280 Speaker 1: so they could just keep getting the residuals later on, 1385 01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:12,840 Speaker 1: which unfortunately is you know, once again going back to 1386 01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:18,519 Speaker 1: the music business. Remember, kids, it's a business, so pay attention. 1387 01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:23,719 Speaker 1: But the very first time I got any real money 1388 01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:26,760 Speaker 1: was a publishing check. But because Bill was like, you're 1389 01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:30,679 Speaker 1: not signing these publishing deals because the catalog is too 1390 01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:33,080 Speaker 1: strong right now, not for a debut album. And I 1391 01:20:33,160 --> 01:20:37,240 Speaker 1: remember he got all kinds of hell for this because 1392 01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:38,840 Speaker 1: people were like, what are you doing. You can make 1393 01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:41,920 Speaker 1: so much money off this right now. He's like, no, 1394 01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:45,559 Speaker 1: I want to be a part of this band's career. 1395 01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:47,519 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to cash in right now. I'm trying 1396 01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:50,120 Speaker 1: to look at longevity, so they don't need to sign 1397 01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:54,400 Speaker 1: a publishing deal right this second. So because I had 1398 01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:58,160 Speaker 1: the writer's portion of the song, and I had fifty 1399 01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:01,400 Speaker 1: of the song because I wrote all the lyrics, you 1400 01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:03,760 Speaker 1: have to understand I've never ever dealt with anything like 1401 01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:09,240 Speaker 1: this before. I'm twenty three years old. And the very 1402 01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:12,840 Speaker 1: first check, and this is in two thousand and very 1403 01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:15,240 Speaker 1: very beginning of two thousand and four. Leave a Whisper 1404 01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:17,920 Speaker 1: came out in May two thousand and three, I believe 1405 01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:21,040 Speaker 1: May twenty seventh is when the record came out. And 1406 01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:25,040 Speaker 1: this was like roughly I think February of two thousand 1407 01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:27,960 Speaker 1: and four, and I got a check for seventy seven 1408 01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:32,000 Speaker 1: thousand dollars and I did not know what to do, 1409 01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:36,920 Speaker 1: Like I just remember like calling my mom and being like, 1410 01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:41,200 Speaker 1: I don't even know how to explain this, mom, but 1411 01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:43,920 Speaker 1: I have a check. But I've never seen a number 1412 01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:45,880 Speaker 1: on a check this big. And she was like, well, 1413 01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:48,080 Speaker 1: what is it, like a couple of thousand, a couple 1414 01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:52,000 Speaker 1: of thousand dollars. I'm like, it's seventy seven thousand dollars 1415 01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:55,680 Speaker 1: and like she dropped the phone. I remember it was 1416 01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:58,800 Speaker 1: a clunk, and I'm like mom, and she was like, no, 1417 01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:01,960 Speaker 1: I'm here, I'm here, she said. It was just one 1418 01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:04,240 Speaker 1: of those things where it's like, you know, she was 1419 01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:07,519 Speaker 1: like it's how much? And you know, and you know, 1420 01:22:07,880 --> 01:22:10,040 Speaker 1: God bless her. You know, she worked at a bank 1421 01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:12,400 Speaker 1: my whole life, so like the very first thing she did, 1422 01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:14,120 Speaker 1: she was just like, we've got to open you up 1423 01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:17,120 Speaker 1: a money market account all he says. She was just like, 1424 01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:19,400 Speaker 1: you've got She was like please. And my mom was 1425 01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:21,200 Speaker 1: so rad about all that. She helped me so much 1426 01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:23,519 Speaker 1: in the very very beginning with all that. But yeah, 1427 01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:25,479 Speaker 1: that was the first like real check I ever got, 1428 01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:27,760 Speaker 1: and I just did not know what to do with it, 1429 01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:30,200 Speaker 1: but because of my mother, I was able to I 1430 01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:33,479 Speaker 1: invested it. So thanks mom. Okay, but you've been at 1431 01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:37,040 Speaker 1: this for over twenty years now, have you saved most 1432 01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,240 Speaker 1: of the money or have you spent it in that 1433 01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:42,080 Speaker 1: you which you did spend what did you spend it on? 1434 01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:48,439 Speaker 1: I mean in the first I mean, I do remember 1435 01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:52,000 Speaker 1: this because I don't want to bore you with all 1436 01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,880 Speaker 1: the details of like necessarily you know the ins and 1437 01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:57,040 Speaker 1: outs of everything. I mean, this is what I'll say 1438 01:22:57,040 --> 01:23:00,840 Speaker 1: to everybody out there. If you want to be successful 1439 01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:04,200 Speaker 1: financially in the music industry, write your own songs like 1440 01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:06,439 Speaker 1: That's what I'll tell you. And you need to learn 1441 01:23:06,479 --> 01:23:09,760 Speaker 1: how to play live. Like you get those two things 1442 01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:13,639 Speaker 1: going for you, you're gonna be okay. And the other thing, 1443 01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:16,519 Speaker 1: you gotta have tenacity. And don't worry. You can learn 1444 01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:18,880 Speaker 1: how to have tenacity. It's a skill. You have to 1445 01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:20,960 Speaker 1: get good at it. You know, what do they say, 1446 01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, ten thousand hours and then ten thousand more. 1447 01:23:25,240 --> 01:23:28,520 Speaker 1: But I'll let you know, one of the most ridiculous 1448 01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:32,960 Speaker 1: nights of my life with having that kind of money. 1449 01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:37,880 Speaker 1: On the first record, I remember we were our schedule, 1450 01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:43,479 Speaker 1: we were touring. We did like twenty two months straight 1451 01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:45,719 Speaker 1: on leve A Whisper. And when I say twenty two 1452 01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:47,840 Speaker 1: months straight, I'm not talking about like we would have 1453 01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:50,000 Speaker 1: like two months off and then go out for three months, 1454 01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:51,920 Speaker 1: and then we'd have like a couple of weeks here 1455 01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:54,400 Speaker 1: and then you know, we go back out for another 1456 01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:56,840 Speaker 1: two weeks and like that. I'm talking about twenty two 1457 01:23:56,880 --> 01:24:01,479 Speaker 1: months straight like times. I mean, I think the longest 1458 01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:03,360 Speaker 1: we ever did. I remember one time we had nine 1459 01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:06,800 Speaker 1: shows in a row. Like it was just crazy, you know, 1460 01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:08,479 Speaker 1: and you're young and you can do it and you 1461 01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:10,120 Speaker 1: know this and then the other, but like you can't 1462 01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:15,600 Speaker 1: sustain that. Nobody can. And I remember we had just 1463 01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:20,160 Speaker 1: been out and this was like the back end of 1464 01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:22,720 Speaker 1: two thousand and four, so the record came out and 1465 01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:27,240 Speaker 1: in two thousand and three, so this was probably November 1466 01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:29,559 Speaker 1: of two thousand and four, and we're in Houston, Texas, 1467 01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:34,080 Speaker 1: and I hadn't had a shower, and like, I think 1468 01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:37,200 Speaker 1: it was something. It was nasty, man. I mean it 1469 01:24:37,240 --> 01:24:39,840 Speaker 1: was like two weeks I hadn't had a shower, and 1470 01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:45,439 Speaker 1: I was so like we we were able to get 1471 01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:47,639 Speaker 1: a hotel, I remember, because we had two days off. 1472 01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:50,400 Speaker 1: So like I took money because I had money at 1473 01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:53,799 Speaker 1: this point in time, and so I said, I remember 1474 01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:57,479 Speaker 1: I took like ten grand and I like for the 1475 01:24:57,640 --> 01:24:59,360 Speaker 1: for those two days, and I bought everybody in the 1476 01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:01,719 Speaker 1: crew hotel rooms. We stayed at a super super nice 1477 01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,880 Speaker 1: like Hyatt or a Hilton, and um, you know, the 1478 01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:06,840 Speaker 1: bus was in there and took care of that. All 1479 01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:09,120 Speaker 1: I wanted that night was a steak I just wanted 1480 01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:10,800 Speaker 1: a steak dinner. That's all I wanted. And I wanted 1481 01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:14,519 Speaker 1: to be alone. I remember that, And so I went 1482 01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:20,519 Speaker 1: to this. I asked the I asked the the front 1483 01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:22,760 Speaker 1: desk clerk. I said, is there like a really nice 1484 01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:25,120 Speaker 1: steakhouse around here in walking distance? And he said, yeah, 1485 01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:29,160 Speaker 1: there's a There's a place called Houston's, like about five 1486 01:25:29,240 --> 01:25:31,439 Speaker 1: hundred feet from here. It's right over there. So I 1487 01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:33,800 Speaker 1: walk over to Houston's. I don't remember what kind of 1488 01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:37,240 Speaker 1: what day of the week it was, so I walk in. 1489 01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:40,640 Speaker 1: I'm not showered yet. I'm just kind of you know, 1490 01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:42,240 Speaker 1: getting off the bus, this and that and the other. 1491 01:25:43,479 --> 01:25:47,240 Speaker 1: I go in and it's a nice place, and this 1492 01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:49,160 Speaker 1: young lady at the front kind of like is a 1493 01:25:49,160 --> 01:25:51,800 Speaker 1: little wild eyed because I don't I look pretty rough, 1494 01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:54,280 Speaker 1: and she goes, can I help you? And I was like, 1495 01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:57,120 Speaker 1: I just want to sit in the back. I just 1496 01:25:57,160 --> 01:25:59,840 Speaker 1: want a table on my own. I won't be a bother. 1497 01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:03,280 Speaker 1: I just want to steak dinner. Please, will you seat me? 1498 01:26:03,320 --> 01:26:05,559 Speaker 1: Because everybody was dressed up in fancy and stuff like that. 1499 01:26:05,640 --> 01:26:07,200 Speaker 1: For whatever reason. Man, she was cool with me and 1500 01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:08,920 Speaker 1: she let me sit in the back. So going the 1501 01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:11,840 Speaker 1: back had a cool waiter. The waiter came up to 1502 01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:13,759 Speaker 1: me and was like, what do you want to drink? 1503 01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:18,160 Speaker 1: And I was like, wine, like red wine. I didn't. 1504 01:26:18,160 --> 01:26:21,880 Speaker 1: I didn't drink red wine. I drank Yeagermeister and Jack 1505 01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:25,559 Speaker 1: Daniels and you know, just liquor. But I was like, 1506 01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:27,679 Speaker 1: I'm in a nice place. I want to I want 1507 01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:29,400 Speaker 1: to I want to steak dinner and I want some 1508 01:26:29,479 --> 01:26:32,960 Speaker 1: red wine. You know, just a redneck on paydays what 1509 01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:37,960 Speaker 1: we call it um and uh remember this is two 1510 01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:42,080 Speaker 1: thousand and four. So I had a great server. So 1511 01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:44,960 Speaker 1: I said, show me, like, what's a good bottle of wine? 1512 01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:47,120 Speaker 1: He was like, I'm gonna give you a bottle of 1513 01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:50,800 Speaker 1: opus opus one. For some people that are listening to this, 1514 01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:54,639 Speaker 1: they'll know what opus one is. Um. So he brings 1515 01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:56,280 Speaker 1: it to me. It was like a I think it 1516 01:26:56,400 --> 01:27:00,280 Speaker 1: was like a two thousand or something like that. But 1517 01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:02,120 Speaker 1: I remember the bottle that he gave me. The first 1518 01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:05,200 Speaker 1: bottle was at the time, it's a six hundred dollars 1519 01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:08,640 Speaker 1: bottle of water, a six hundred bottle of wine. And 1520 01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:11,519 Speaker 1: I was like cool, and he just opens it. So 1521 01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:13,960 Speaker 1: I take that bottle of wine out, and I take 1522 01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:16,280 Speaker 1: another bottle of wine out, and I had a steak dinner, 1523 01:27:16,320 --> 01:27:20,120 Speaker 1: and I was, you know, feeling full, very drunk. And 1524 01:27:20,479 --> 01:27:22,560 Speaker 1: what I noticed, though, when I leaned back in the 1525 01:27:23,439 --> 01:27:25,080 Speaker 1: booth that I was in, is that they had this 1526 01:27:25,160 --> 01:27:28,200 Speaker 1: corridor of these two giant glass It was like a 1527 01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:30,280 Speaker 1: corridor in the center of the restaurant and it was 1528 01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:32,799 Speaker 1: filled with bottles of wine. So like their wine cellar 1529 01:27:32,920 --> 01:27:35,639 Speaker 1: was like in the center of the restaurant. And so 1530 01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:37,600 Speaker 1: I asked the kid that was the waiter. I was like, 1531 01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:39,799 Speaker 1: can I go in and look at those wines because 1532 01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:42,360 Speaker 1: there's a really really big bottle of wine in there 1533 01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:45,080 Speaker 1: is a I am I seeing things And he was like, yeah, 1534 01:27:45,120 --> 01:27:48,760 Speaker 1: that's like a we call that a magnum bottle. It's 1535 01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:52,360 Speaker 1: like it's it looks almost like cartoonish, but it's a 1536 01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:57,439 Speaker 1: real bottle of wine. It was a nineteen eighty bottle 1537 01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:04,479 Speaker 1: of opus one. It was seven thousand dollars. And so 1538 01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:09,439 Speaker 1: I walked in and I'm in there looking at it, 1539 01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:12,200 Speaker 1: and the kid that let me in there, and so 1540 01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:14,200 Speaker 1: here's this like I look like a bum. I look 1541 01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:16,520 Speaker 1: like a homeless person in the middle of this nice 1542 01:28:16,560 --> 01:28:20,719 Speaker 1: restaurant because you could see through the wine thing or whatever, 1543 01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:22,720 Speaker 1: and all these people are looking in because there's this 1544 01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:26,000 Speaker 1: whino in there, literally, and so the manager runs in 1545 01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:27,840 Speaker 1: and he's like, get out of here. What are you 1546 01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:30,040 Speaker 1: doing in here? And so the waiter runs and he's like, no, 1547 01:28:30,040 --> 01:28:31,880 Speaker 1: no, no no, no, that's my patron or that's my that's 1548 01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:34,880 Speaker 1: my customer. And he's like the managers like what and 1549 01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:36,479 Speaker 1: he's like, no, no, he's with me. He's with me. 1550 01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:39,320 Speaker 1: He just bought like this, like he's with me. And 1551 01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:41,960 Speaker 1: I looked at the manager and I was like, how 1552 01:28:42,040 --> 01:28:45,240 Speaker 1: much is this bottle of wine? This big bottle of wine? 1553 01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:48,920 Speaker 1: And he was like, sir, you need to leave the restaurant. 1554 01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:51,240 Speaker 1: And he's like no, like how much does this bottle 1555 01:28:51,240 --> 01:28:53,479 Speaker 1: of wine? And he was like I'll go look, I'll 1556 01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:55,000 Speaker 1: go how about that, I'll go look, but you need 1557 01:28:55,040 --> 01:28:56,479 Speaker 1: to get out of here. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna 1558 01:28:56,520 --> 01:28:58,320 Speaker 1: take the bottle with me. He's like, you're gonna leave 1559 01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:03,000 Speaker 1: the bottle right there. So he walks out, and the 1560 01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:05,080 Speaker 1: the kid that's my waiters like, you gotta go. And 1561 01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:06,880 Speaker 1: I was like, Hey, I'm gonna get my bottle of wine. 1562 01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:10,439 Speaker 1: And I take this bottle of wine. It's like a giant, 1563 01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:14,400 Speaker 1: it's like a baby, It's huge. And so I walk 1564 01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:17,920 Speaker 1: it out and I walked. I'd already paid my bill 1565 01:29:18,240 --> 01:29:21,280 Speaker 1: at this point in time with the server, and so 1566 01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:23,760 Speaker 1: I go up to the front where the manager is 1567 01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:27,479 Speaker 1: checking out to see how much this bottle of wine is. 1568 01:29:27,680 --> 01:29:30,400 Speaker 1: And he looks at me and he goes, it's seven 1569 01:29:30,439 --> 01:29:34,360 Speaker 1: thousand dollars, and so I give him my credit card 1570 01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:36,479 Speaker 1: and I was like, put it on this and he 1571 01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:41,080 Speaker 1: laughs at me. And he's got all these like really 1572 01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:43,760 Speaker 1: hot girls around him and stuff, little hostesses and this 1573 01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:45,320 Speaker 1: and that and the other, and he's trying to be 1574 01:29:45,479 --> 01:29:51,960 Speaker 1: you know whatever, and he basically runs the card and 1575 01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:55,559 Speaker 1: it's approved and he goes and you just see his 1576 01:29:55,640 --> 01:30:00,400 Speaker 1: face drop, and I'm like, is there a problem, Like no, 1577 01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:04,000 Speaker 1: and he hands me the ticket and I take the 1578 01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:06,920 Speaker 1: ticket and I sign it and I throw the bottle 1579 01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:09,880 Speaker 1: over my shoulder and I walked to the doors, and 1580 01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:13,640 Speaker 1: I turn around and I yell the line from Scarface 1581 01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:17,840 Speaker 1: to the entire restaurant, say good nights of the bad Guy, 1582 01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:24,559 Speaker 1: and then I walked out. Well that's an amazing story. 1583 01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:27,320 Speaker 1: I could talk about that for ten minutes. But how 1584 01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:28,920 Speaker 1: many houses do you own and how many cars do 1585 01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:33,320 Speaker 1: you own? I don't own a house and I don't 1586 01:30:33,360 --> 01:30:37,720 Speaker 1: own any cars. I had a house in Thousand Oaks, California, 1587 01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:40,519 Speaker 1: from two thousand and eleven to two thousand and sixteen, 1588 01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:43,320 Speaker 1: and then I sold it because of those times that 1589 01:30:43,400 --> 01:30:45,960 Speaker 1: I was there. Of the five years that I was 1590 01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:48,360 Speaker 1: in the house, I was only inside the house maybe 1591 01:30:48,400 --> 01:30:52,240 Speaker 1: seven months, seven or six or seven months. I sold 1592 01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:54,640 Speaker 1: it to a family when I went on tour in 1593 01:30:54,640 --> 01:30:59,080 Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen, and I haven't had a home since. 1594 01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:03,479 Speaker 1: So I live in hotels and I rent cars everywhere 1595 01:31:03,479 --> 01:31:06,320 Speaker 1: that I go because I'm not in a location long 1596 01:31:06,479 --> 01:31:11,000 Speaker 1: enough to merit owning a house, because I move constantly. 1597 01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:13,559 Speaker 1: I mean I'm on the road. Going back to the 1598 01:31:13,560 --> 01:31:18,120 Speaker 1: beginning of our conversation, you know I'm probably on the 1599 01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:20,720 Speaker 1: road even off cycle. I'm on the road around two 1600 01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:22,479 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty days out of the year because I'm 1601 01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:26,719 Speaker 1: constantly doing business for the band. I'm constantly taking meetings 1602 01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:30,160 Speaker 1: and doing certain things, and I'm networking with other you know, 1603 01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:32,640 Speaker 1: procedures and different things that we're setting up for the 1604 01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:36,519 Speaker 1: band and different timelines and touring, and so I'm constantly moving. 1605 01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:40,280 Speaker 1: I'll eventually figure out where I want to, like, you know, 1606 01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:43,479 Speaker 1: put roots down and what have you. My son will 1607 01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:45,200 Speaker 1: need to be a little bit older, so I know 1608 01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:47,360 Speaker 1: kind of where he's gonna be and where he's gonna go. 1609 01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:50,120 Speaker 1: He wants to go to the NBA. He's a hell 1610 01:31:50,120 --> 01:31:52,880 Speaker 1: of a basketball player. We're gonna see what happens with that. 1611 01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:56,000 Speaker 1: But you know, it doesn't really make a whole lot 1612 01:31:56,040 --> 01:31:58,040 Speaker 1: of sense right now, and I'm on the road so much. 1613 01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:01,640 Speaker 1: But yeah, I am a I am the definition of 1614 01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:06,439 Speaker 1: a modern day gypsy without I don't steal, though, I 1615 01:32:06,520 --> 01:32:10,800 Speaker 1: love you gypsies. What credit card do you use? Uh? 1616 01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:14,400 Speaker 1: The card that I use the most is my American 1617 01:32:14,479 --> 01:32:19,679 Speaker 1: Express Platinum. That's the one I use the most. Have 1618 01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:25,000 Speaker 1: they solicited you first Centurion card? Yes, it's it's not 1619 01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:27,040 Speaker 1: a myth. It's not a myth. It is a real thing. 1620 01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:30,439 Speaker 1: And you just said it's not worth the price it's 1621 01:32:30,479 --> 01:32:33,280 Speaker 1: just I mean, it's just it's more of a status 1622 01:32:33,320 --> 01:32:34,920 Speaker 1: And here's the thing about it. I'm gonna get in 1623 01:32:34,960 --> 01:32:39,400 Speaker 1: so much trouble, Um, American Express. I love you, I 1624 01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:41,680 Speaker 1: love you for all that you do. You're you're a 1625 01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:45,479 Speaker 1: great company. I'm I'm not even joking, um, but I 1626 01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:48,880 Speaker 1: gotta say this, the Platinum card is going to give 1627 01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:52,479 Speaker 1: you a hundred times more benefits than the Black card. 1628 01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:57,240 Speaker 1: There's I mean, it's a status thing, the Black card. 1629 01:32:57,479 --> 01:32:59,599 Speaker 1: And the thing about it is is, if you want 1630 01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:03,040 Speaker 1: to get down to the brass tacks of it, the 1631 01:33:03,160 --> 01:33:05,880 Speaker 1: Platinum card is going to give you way more benefits, 1632 01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:08,479 Speaker 1: especially owning an LLC, being in a band, with all 1633 01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:11,479 Speaker 1: the flights and the hotels and all those different types 1634 01:33:11,479 --> 01:33:14,160 Speaker 1: of things. I mean, you just get exorbitant amount more 1635 01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:17,559 Speaker 1: points on the Platinum card than you would on the 1636 01:33:17,560 --> 01:33:27,400 Speaker 1: Black card. It just doesn't make any sense. Okay. So 1637 01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:32,240 Speaker 1: you know the world has even changed musically since you've 1638 01:33:32,240 --> 01:33:35,760 Speaker 1: been in the landscape. So what do we know? Streaming 1639 01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:40,920 Speaker 1: dominates many artists or anti streaming. There's a lot of 1640 01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:45,440 Speaker 1: negativity about labels. Rock used to be the dominant format. 1641 01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:49,439 Speaker 1: It's not the dominant musical style. Now, what do you 1642 01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:54,639 Speaker 1: think about all this? I think that whoever wrote that 1643 01:33:58,080 --> 01:34:02,160 Speaker 1: isn't a touring musician and isn't somebody that makes music 1644 01:34:02,200 --> 01:34:06,400 Speaker 1: for a living and write songs for a living. I'm 1645 01:34:06,439 --> 01:34:10,640 Speaker 1: not trying to be offensive. I'm just being honest. The 1646 01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:15,679 Speaker 1: reality of that is sometimes that type of ideology comes 1647 01:34:15,760 --> 01:34:22,360 Speaker 1: from journalists that are getting fed certain stats from other journalists, 1648 01:34:22,360 --> 01:34:26,680 Speaker 1: from other conglomerates. What I would tell you is this, 1649 01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:31,840 Speaker 1: anytime you have an opportunity for your music to be heard, 1650 01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:38,880 Speaker 1: say thank you, thank you very very much, because at 1651 01:34:38,920 --> 01:34:41,439 Speaker 1: the end of the day, the evolution of the music 1652 01:34:41,479 --> 01:34:44,920 Speaker 1: industry is not going to stop. Like it's just not 1653 01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:47,840 Speaker 1: going to So you have a lot of people in 1654 01:34:47,880 --> 01:34:51,680 Speaker 1: the beginning of the streaming era that we're complaining about streaming, 1655 01:34:52,160 --> 01:34:55,040 Speaker 1: and these young kids today, and you know, this younger 1656 01:34:55,040 --> 01:34:57,840 Speaker 1: generation doesn't know anything about what it takes to make 1657 01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:00,120 Speaker 1: a record and put it on a CD and and 1658 01:35:00,720 --> 01:35:02,960 Speaker 1: have all these what about all these stores? And I'm like, 1659 01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:06,080 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. They have no idea what a CD 1660 01:35:06,280 --> 01:35:09,040 Speaker 1: is because they didn't grow up in that era. They 1661 01:35:09,080 --> 01:35:11,640 Speaker 1: have no idea what it is. That's not their fault, 1662 01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:16,599 Speaker 1: first of all. And so you sound like you sound 1663 01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:20,360 Speaker 1: bitter to these, to this younger generation, when you're acting 1664 01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:23,720 Speaker 1: like that, you gotta get on their level and understand 1665 01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:26,519 Speaker 1: that once again, ladies and gentlemen, it's a business. It's 1666 01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:29,760 Speaker 1: called the music business for a reason. And so what 1667 01:35:29,800 --> 01:35:32,639 Speaker 1: you gotta do is you have to learn how to maneuver. 1668 01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:35,439 Speaker 1: We often talk and shine down about the brick wall. 1669 01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:37,600 Speaker 1: If you run head first into a brick wall, I 1670 01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:39,840 Speaker 1: guarantee you the brick wall will win. You got to 1671 01:35:39,840 --> 01:35:41,840 Speaker 1: figure out how to negotiate with it, how to go 1672 01:35:41,880 --> 01:35:46,080 Speaker 1: around it, go under it, go You know, there are 1673 01:35:46,120 --> 01:35:49,519 Speaker 1: other ways to look at the obstacles in front of you. 1674 01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:52,920 Speaker 1: But I will tell you this. We were the number 1675 01:35:52,960 --> 01:35:56,760 Speaker 1: one album the first week that Planet Zero came out 1676 01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:59,960 Speaker 1: on six different charts on Billboard, and one of those charts, 1677 01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:03,840 Speaker 1: we were the number one record on vinyl. And you 1678 01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:06,840 Speaker 1: know the other side of that too, is we are 1679 01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:12,240 Speaker 1: a physical selling band. We signed seventeen thousand covers of 1680 01:36:12,360 --> 01:36:15,519 Speaker 1: Planet Zero before the album came out. Well, how did 1681 01:36:15,520 --> 01:36:19,040 Speaker 1: we do that? We signed seventeen thousand covers because we 1682 01:36:19,120 --> 01:36:23,360 Speaker 1: sold seventeen thousand covers in a pre sale before the 1683 01:36:23,439 --> 01:36:26,559 Speaker 1: record came out. Because we gave everybody an option if 1684 01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:28,720 Speaker 1: you want to sign copy of this record, if you 1685 01:36:28,760 --> 01:36:32,120 Speaker 1: buy it now, you'll get a signed copy. And we 1686 01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:35,080 Speaker 1: actually had to cap it because we could have kept going. 1687 01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:37,439 Speaker 1: It's just we didn't have the physical time to keep 1688 01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:41,800 Speaker 1: signing records. Because all four of us, seventeen thousand, it 1689 01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:45,679 Speaker 1: took us. Like it took us, we had to send 1690 01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:47,800 Speaker 1: I remember we had to send them to each other 1691 01:36:47,800 --> 01:36:50,360 Speaker 1: because we weren't all together at the time before we 1692 01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:53,000 Speaker 1: got on the road. But that's what I mean. I'm 1693 01:36:53,040 --> 01:36:55,400 Speaker 1: using that as an example because there are ways to 1694 01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:57,519 Speaker 1: sell your music, you know, there are ways to do 1695 01:36:57,600 --> 01:36:59,519 Speaker 1: these things. And the thing that we look at with 1696 01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:02,519 Speaker 1: the stream services are we go to them and say 1697 01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:05,840 Speaker 1: to them, we would love for you to think about 1698 01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:08,280 Speaker 1: us for all your playlists. We have a record coming out, 1699 01:37:08,320 --> 01:37:10,000 Speaker 1: we have a new single coming out, We've got a 1700 01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:14,599 Speaker 1: new video coming out. Terrestrial radio I cannot say this enough. 1701 01:37:14,640 --> 01:37:16,920 Speaker 1: And it's not because I'm in the birthplace of one 1702 01:37:16,920 --> 01:37:20,920 Speaker 1: of the greatest radio stations in North America. But the 1703 01:37:21,320 --> 01:37:24,280 Speaker 1: point being is that rock radio, but just terrestrial radio 1704 01:37:24,360 --> 01:37:26,759 Speaker 1: in general, has been there for us from the beginning. 1705 01:37:27,000 --> 01:37:29,600 Speaker 1: By the way, we're one of the only bands in 1706 01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:34,719 Speaker 1: the United States that has crossed five different formats multiple 1707 01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:38,280 Speaker 1: times in the last twenty years. When Casey Casum signed 1708 01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:40,679 Speaker 1: off the air, probably one of the most famous American 1709 01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:44,599 Speaker 1: DJs in the history of radio after thirty nine years 1710 01:37:44,640 --> 01:37:46,920 Speaker 1: of being in radio when he signed off the air 1711 01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:49,519 Speaker 1: because it was the number one song in the country 1712 01:37:49,800 --> 01:37:54,439 Speaker 1: on the Hot one hundred was second Chance. So we 1713 01:37:54,520 --> 01:37:57,639 Speaker 1: know what it means to cross formats to You should 1714 01:37:57,640 --> 01:37:59,960 Speaker 1: not have boundaries. It shouldn't be about your music. Shouldn't 1715 01:37:59,960 --> 01:38:01,840 Speaker 1: be put into a box. Don't let nobody, don't let 1716 01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:05,640 Speaker 1: them put you into a box. Like the dynamic of 1717 01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:09,240 Speaker 1: the fan and the artist, that's a relationship that has 1718 01:38:09,280 --> 01:38:11,400 Speaker 1: to be There has to be respect involved in that. 1719 01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:15,280 Speaker 1: But to the people that talk about how if streaming 1720 01:38:15,479 --> 01:38:20,200 Speaker 1: ruined the business or it ruined the model, maybe you're 1721 01:38:20,200 --> 01:38:24,920 Speaker 1: being lazy, maybe you're not looking at it the right way, 1722 01:38:25,040 --> 01:38:28,519 Speaker 1: Like nobody owes you anything. They really don't. We can 1723 01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:30,920 Speaker 1: all talk about it. In this industry. I hear it 1724 01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:33,479 Speaker 1: all the time. How people just talk about, you know, 1725 01:38:34,439 --> 01:38:36,960 Speaker 1: they're not making any money, and you know their music 1726 01:38:37,080 --> 01:38:39,400 Speaker 1: is worthless and it's disposable, and why should I even 1727 01:38:39,600 --> 01:38:45,280 Speaker 1: record music? Well, then quit quit because there is somebody 1728 01:38:45,280 --> 01:38:48,800 Speaker 1: that will take your place. Somebody wants it more than 1729 01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:52,759 Speaker 1: you do. And I just we've curated this fan base 1730 01:38:52,840 --> 01:38:56,120 Speaker 1: that is every single year continuously growing, and that's because 1731 01:38:56,120 --> 01:39:00,559 Speaker 1: we self physical records. In my opinion, we let the 1732 01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:03,840 Speaker 1: fans talk to us about our merchandise, from our sweatshirts 1733 01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:05,960 Speaker 1: to our hats, to our hoodies, to our you know, 1734 01:39:06,280 --> 01:39:08,679 Speaker 1: all of the merchandise that we present, to the music, 1735 01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:11,480 Speaker 1: to the way that they interact with us, our websites, 1736 01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:15,240 Speaker 1: our platforms, all the streaming services. You know, I could 1737 01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:17,680 Speaker 1: go down the list. I don't want to be, you know, 1738 01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:20,880 Speaker 1: given everybody favorites and what have you. But YouTube and 1739 01:39:20,960 --> 01:39:25,560 Speaker 1: Apple Music and Deezer internationally and Spotify, she Zam, Pandora. 1740 01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:28,439 Speaker 1: We're part of the four billion stream club in Pandora. 1741 01:39:28,479 --> 01:39:31,840 Speaker 1: They just gave us a plaque like three three months ago. 1742 01:39:31,920 --> 01:39:35,320 Speaker 1: I'm still baffled by that. You know. It's there's a 1743 01:39:35,360 --> 01:39:38,280 Speaker 1: lot of success here and it does generate revenue. And 1744 01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:41,360 Speaker 1: believe me, we have a system of what we do 1745 01:39:41,479 --> 01:39:44,360 Speaker 1: in this band that did not happen overnight, especially when 1746 01:39:44,360 --> 01:39:47,440 Speaker 1: it comes to what we do live like we're responsible 1747 01:39:47,520 --> 01:39:51,559 Speaker 1: for seventy seven. Crew members now include and that's not 1748 01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:55,000 Speaker 1: like that's truck drivers, that's bus drivers, that's all the techs. 1749 01:39:55,040 --> 01:40:00,840 Speaker 1: That's tour managers, production managers, lighting, pyrotechnics, video aging. It 1750 01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:03,600 Speaker 1: goes on and on and on. It is a machine. 1751 01:40:04,280 --> 01:40:08,439 Speaker 1: It is a machine that is built by It's built 1752 01:40:08,439 --> 01:40:11,640 Speaker 1: by the love of the show. It's built by the 1753 01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:13,839 Speaker 1: love of the music. Yes, the music is very important, 1754 01:40:13,880 --> 01:40:17,080 Speaker 1: but there's all these different aspects of how this industry works. 1755 01:40:17,760 --> 01:40:20,880 Speaker 1: And I get passionate about it and I get very 1756 01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:23,599 Speaker 1: very hypersensitive to it and focus because I want people 1757 01:40:23,600 --> 01:40:28,560 Speaker 1: to understand, especially the younger generation, don't don't limit yourself 1758 01:40:28,640 --> 01:40:31,479 Speaker 1: and don't come up with excuses like, oh, it's this now, 1759 01:40:31,560 --> 01:40:33,160 Speaker 1: or it should be this, or it should be that. 1760 01:40:33,280 --> 01:40:36,320 Speaker 1: There are kids that are being born right now. They're 1761 01:40:36,360 --> 01:40:39,599 Speaker 1: not gonna have any idea ten years from now like 1762 01:40:39,640 --> 01:40:42,120 Speaker 1: what it was like to either listen to music or 1763 01:40:42,120 --> 01:40:45,200 Speaker 1: sell music or any of that. And that's you have 1764 01:40:45,240 --> 01:40:47,760 Speaker 1: to evolve. There's a great line in the movie Moneyball 1765 01:40:48,120 --> 01:40:51,240 Speaker 1: where Brad Pitt says, adapt or die. You don't have 1766 01:40:51,320 --> 01:40:53,400 Speaker 1: to sell out, you don't have to sell your soul. 1767 01:40:53,680 --> 01:40:55,600 Speaker 1: You don't have to stop making the music that is 1768 01:40:55,600 --> 01:40:57,640 Speaker 1: truly who you are. But if you want to be 1769 01:40:57,640 --> 01:41:00,400 Speaker 1: in this industry, you have to learn to adapt and 1770 01:41:00,520 --> 01:41:03,479 Speaker 1: you have to figure out what works for you. And 1771 01:41:03,960 --> 01:41:05,759 Speaker 1: you don't have to be a part of the industry 1772 01:41:05,800 --> 01:41:07,400 Speaker 1: if you don't want to. You know, I have this 1773 01:41:07,439 --> 01:41:11,080 Speaker 1: conversation about TikTok. I think it's amazing what TikTok does. 1774 01:41:11,320 --> 01:41:14,160 Speaker 1: Like all of these kids out there that just have 1775 01:41:14,640 --> 01:41:18,760 Speaker 1: insane imaginations and it's just awesome to watch and they're 1776 01:41:18,800 --> 01:41:21,800 Speaker 1: so creative and it just blows me away, and like 1777 01:41:22,040 --> 01:41:24,120 Speaker 1: take the music and take you know, they'll take all 1778 01:41:24,120 --> 01:41:26,519 Speaker 1: these different songs. I love how the younger generation they 1779 01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:29,519 Speaker 1: don't care about an expiration date because it doesn't exist 1780 01:41:29,560 --> 01:41:32,559 Speaker 1: for them. They don't care like when a song came out, 1781 01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:36,280 Speaker 1: Like look at Kate Bush with Stranger Things that rekindled 1782 01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:40,040 Speaker 1: her existence, you know what I mean. Think about Metallica. 1783 01:41:40,120 --> 01:41:43,720 Speaker 1: Not that Metallica isn't working, you know, hard every single year, 1784 01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:45,840 Speaker 1: but look what happened on Stranger Things with Master of 1785 01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:48,439 Speaker 1: Puppets and opening up a big door, a huge door 1786 01:41:48,680 --> 01:41:53,080 Speaker 1: to another generation of fans that should be embraced. And 1787 01:41:53,120 --> 01:41:55,439 Speaker 1: I just love that the younger generation They don't care 1788 01:41:55,479 --> 01:41:57,680 Speaker 1: if something came out in nineteen seventy five. If it 1789 01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:00,240 Speaker 1: sounds good and it's awesome, that's all they care about. 1790 01:42:00,520 --> 01:42:04,840 Speaker 1: I think that's I think that's awesome. Okay, people just 1791 01:42:04,920 --> 01:42:07,640 Speaker 1: say we do have the Internet, and it led to 1792 01:42:07,680 --> 01:42:10,000 Speaker 1: a lot of things you just talked about. But to 1793 01:42:10,120 --> 01:42:13,280 Speaker 1: what degree do you and the band interact with your 1794 01:42:13,360 --> 01:42:16,920 Speaker 1: fans on these varying platforms and how important do you 1795 01:42:16,960 --> 01:42:21,519 Speaker 1: think that is? I think it's important if you want to. 1796 01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:23,840 Speaker 1: Here's the thing about us. We always try to have 1797 01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:28,120 Speaker 1: at certain times a bit of a mystique because everything 1798 01:42:28,200 --> 01:42:31,280 Speaker 1: is out there now there are everything is out there 1799 01:42:32,160 --> 01:42:34,599 Speaker 1: to the public, and some artists choose to just be 1800 01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:37,040 Speaker 1: every single second, every part of the day, this is 1801 01:42:37,040 --> 01:42:39,920 Speaker 1: what I'm doing, this is what's happening, you know, and 1802 01:42:40,160 --> 01:42:42,920 Speaker 1: they kind of put their entire lives on display. We 1803 01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:46,360 Speaker 1: I feel like, have a really really good balance and that. 1804 01:42:46,439 --> 01:42:49,200 Speaker 1: But we're very involved with our social media. We're very 1805 01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:52,280 Speaker 1: involved with our digital campaigns and what we do and 1806 01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:55,519 Speaker 1: how we interact with our audience, not only in North 1807 01:42:55,560 --> 01:42:59,519 Speaker 1: America but also just around the globe. So we're also 1808 01:42:59,640 --> 01:43:03,800 Speaker 1: constant learning, whether it's from Facebook or snatchap or TikTok 1809 01:43:03,920 --> 01:43:07,400 Speaker 1: or Instagram or I mean, there's so many different platforms 1810 01:43:07,400 --> 01:43:10,160 Speaker 1: that we use now. And that's another thing too, there's 1811 01:43:10,200 --> 01:43:12,080 Speaker 1: just so many of them. You just want to do 1812 01:43:12,120 --> 01:43:14,680 Speaker 1: your best to be authentic. Like that's our biggest thing 1813 01:43:14,760 --> 01:43:17,240 Speaker 1: is we're like, I'm not gonna go like I do 1814 01:43:17,280 --> 01:43:19,840 Speaker 1: tiktoks if I think they're cool or it's something that 1815 01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:22,400 Speaker 1: I would do or I find it fun. But well, 1816 01:43:22,439 --> 01:43:25,479 Speaker 1: I go and like do something silly and like do 1817 01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:27,800 Speaker 1: a dance and make myself you know why, I poke 1818 01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:30,760 Speaker 1: fun at myself. Sure, I don't care, you know, as 1819 01:43:30,760 --> 01:43:32,960 Speaker 1: long as it's authentic to me and it's something I 1820 01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:34,680 Speaker 1: would do. Now, if I look at something, I'm like, 1821 01:43:34,720 --> 01:43:37,559 Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. I'm not gonna do it. You know. 1822 01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:39,519 Speaker 1: That's kind of how you have to look at it. 1823 01:43:39,680 --> 01:43:41,839 Speaker 1: But I think that it's bad. I think that it's awesome, 1824 01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:45,320 Speaker 1: and I think that it's a badass that we have 1825 01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:48,880 Speaker 1: this kind of communication with our audience because some people 1826 01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:51,519 Speaker 1: might say that what takes kind of the mystique out 1827 01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:55,360 Speaker 1: of it, doesn't it not necessarily everybody's different, and it's 1828 01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:57,519 Speaker 1: all how you want to curate, how you want to 1829 01:43:57,520 --> 01:44:02,479 Speaker 1: curate your social platforms. I mean, there's there's no handbook 1830 01:44:02,840 --> 01:44:04,920 Speaker 1: to social media. There's really not. You can see a 1831 01:44:04,920 --> 01:44:06,519 Speaker 1: bunch of stuff on YouTube and they'll tell you about 1832 01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:08,320 Speaker 1: algorithms and all those things, and I'm sure there's a 1833 01:44:08,439 --> 01:44:11,160 Speaker 1: juxtaposition there and you don't want to be desensitized to 1834 01:44:11,200 --> 01:44:14,280 Speaker 1: those platforms. And I'm sure you can get in there, 1835 01:44:14,280 --> 01:44:16,160 Speaker 1: and you can, as I would say, you could mister 1836 01:44:16,280 --> 01:44:18,280 Speaker 1: beast it if you wanted to. But there's only one 1837 01:44:18,360 --> 01:44:21,320 Speaker 1: mister Beast, you know, and he's brilliant at what he does, 1838 01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:25,000 Speaker 1: but his entire life is as an algorithm on YouTube. 1839 01:44:25,000 --> 01:44:27,600 Speaker 1: That's why he's got one hundred and thirty nine million subscribers. 1840 01:44:28,080 --> 01:44:31,000 Speaker 1: But that's not that's not my gig, you know what 1841 01:44:31,040 --> 01:44:33,519 Speaker 1: I mean. And I think one of the smartest things 1842 01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:36,000 Speaker 1: that we did for our social media was the fact 1843 01:44:36,080 --> 01:44:38,320 Speaker 1: that we're on a record label that has over two 1844 01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:41,000 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty artists and we actually work with two 1845 01:44:41,000 --> 01:44:43,640 Speaker 1: different record labels. We work with Atlantic Records and then 1846 01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:46,240 Speaker 1: we work with promotion with Electure Records under the Warner 1847 01:44:46,360 --> 01:44:49,800 Speaker 1: Music Group. And about four and a half, I guess 1848 01:44:49,800 --> 01:44:52,040 Speaker 1: it's been five years ago now, I hired a young 1849 01:44:52,120 --> 01:44:56,599 Speaker 1: lady named Morgan Townsend and who she was. She didn't 1850 01:44:56,640 --> 01:45:00,200 Speaker 1: necessarily know what she was getting herself into because I 1851 01:45:00,200 --> 01:45:02,760 Speaker 1: didn't know what she was getting herself into. But going 1852 01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:05,400 Speaker 1: back about five years ago, with social media and what 1853 01:45:05,520 --> 01:45:08,559 Speaker 1: have you had management companies and you had the labels, 1854 01:45:09,040 --> 01:45:11,719 Speaker 1: and they have a digital department and they have somebody 1855 01:45:11,760 --> 01:45:13,880 Speaker 1: there that does digital. But when you have two hundred 1856 01:45:13,920 --> 01:45:16,120 Speaker 1: and fifty bands, you're only going to be able to 1857 01:45:16,160 --> 01:45:19,680 Speaker 1: concentrate so much uncertain bands or certain artists. And it's 1858 01:45:19,720 --> 01:45:23,519 Speaker 1: not even about the genres, because it's it's limitless when 1859 01:45:23,560 --> 01:45:24,880 Speaker 1: it comes to that when you're on a label and 1860 01:45:24,920 --> 01:45:26,920 Speaker 1: you've got all these different genres of music. Same thing 1861 01:45:26,920 --> 01:45:29,559 Speaker 1: with a management company, you have all of these different 1862 01:45:29,640 --> 01:45:33,800 Speaker 1: artists one person. It's just too much work. So what 1863 01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:37,000 Speaker 1: we decided to do was go out and try to 1864 01:45:37,040 --> 01:45:40,360 Speaker 1: find somebody that would be willing to kind of come 1865 01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:43,240 Speaker 1: in and learn with us. And it was basically, what's 1866 01:45:43,280 --> 01:45:46,880 Speaker 1: the job description. You're gonna take this band, and you 1867 01:45:46,960 --> 01:45:48,920 Speaker 1: and this band are going to figure this out together 1868 01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:52,400 Speaker 1: for what works for this band. We're gonna learn how 1869 01:45:52,439 --> 01:45:55,000 Speaker 1: this what works and what doesn't work. I often tell 1870 01:45:55,040 --> 01:45:57,880 Speaker 1: people sometimes what works for Shining Down is probably not 1871 01:45:57,920 --> 01:45:59,840 Speaker 1: going to work for some other band, and what works 1872 01:45:59,840 --> 01:46:02,760 Speaker 1: for that band, it probably won't work for us. And 1873 01:46:02,800 --> 01:46:05,200 Speaker 1: a lot of times too, when people describe other bands 1874 01:46:05,240 --> 01:46:07,479 Speaker 1: to me, I'm appreciative of that. When they're trying to 1875 01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:10,400 Speaker 1: I guess you would say, give me an analogy, but 1876 01:46:10,520 --> 01:46:12,840 Speaker 1: I also have to tell them, I appreciate you giving 1877 01:46:12,880 --> 01:46:15,439 Speaker 1: me the analogy. I'm not in that band, I'm in 1878 01:46:15,439 --> 01:46:19,800 Speaker 1: this one. So when we hired this young lady you 1879 01:46:19,800 --> 01:46:21,760 Speaker 1: know who is our we gave her a tie, We 1880 01:46:21,800 --> 01:46:25,160 Speaker 1: had to create a title. She's she's our social media 1881 01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:28,920 Speaker 1: media manager and she's the director of Digital Media for Shiningdown. 1882 01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:31,760 Speaker 1: But we had to learn how to do all that 1883 01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:35,760 Speaker 1: stuff together. And she works with the label like one 1884 01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:37,720 Speaker 1: hundred percent of the time. She works with management one 1885 01:46:37,800 --> 01:46:40,160 Speaker 1: hundred percent of the time, but she's hired by the band. 1886 01:46:40,920 --> 01:46:44,479 Speaker 1: So I would tell anybody out there with social media, 1887 01:46:44,920 --> 01:46:48,560 Speaker 1: take a certain amount of money and focus bringing somebody 1888 01:46:48,640 --> 01:46:52,160 Speaker 1: in that can literally manage your social media, because I'll 1889 01:46:52,200 --> 01:46:54,360 Speaker 1: tell you right now, it can be the difference if 1890 01:46:54,400 --> 01:46:57,360 Speaker 1: you have a strong social media game in your success, 1891 01:46:57,520 --> 01:47:00,559 Speaker 1: especially you know twenty and twenty three and beyond at 1892 01:47:00,600 --> 01:47:06,000 Speaker 1: least right now. Okay, But on your new record, there's 1893 01:47:06,040 --> 01:47:11,840 Speaker 1: all this commentary about social media the Internet. We're talking 1894 01:47:11,840 --> 01:47:15,400 Speaker 1: about keeping people off the social media sites, keeping certain 1895 01:47:15,439 --> 01:47:18,840 Speaker 1: actors off of it because they consider them to be 1896 01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:21,080 Speaker 1: bad actors. And I'm not talking about people on stage 1897 01:47:21,160 --> 01:47:26,600 Speaker 1: or screen and screen time, etc. So how do you 1898 01:47:26,640 --> 01:47:29,440 Speaker 1: know we just heard all the stuff about social media. 1899 01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:32,880 Speaker 1: Where exactly are you guys at on this Well, we 1900 01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:35,800 Speaker 1: wrote Planet Zero the record in the middle of a pandemic, 1901 01:47:36,600 --> 01:47:38,320 Speaker 1: and in the middle of a pandemic, it was not 1902 01:47:38,439 --> 01:47:41,120 Speaker 1: something that everybody. I mean, we didn't wake up in 1903 01:47:41,160 --> 01:47:42,960 Speaker 1: February of twenty twenty and be like, you know, it 1904 01:47:43,000 --> 01:47:50,679 Speaker 1: would be fun, let's shut the world down, and we 1905 01:47:50,720 --> 01:47:54,559 Speaker 1: watched the chaos that ensued inside of that. And granted, 1906 01:47:54,560 --> 01:47:56,639 Speaker 1: we don't need to be going on and on about 1907 01:47:56,680 --> 01:47:58,760 Speaker 1: that anymore because that was then and this is now. 1908 01:47:58,800 --> 01:48:00,560 Speaker 1: But you asked me a legitimate question. I want to 1909 01:48:00,560 --> 01:48:04,800 Speaker 1: give you a legitimate answer. You know, we had no 1910 01:48:04,920 --> 01:48:08,439 Speaker 1: choice on this record but to write about what was 1911 01:48:08,520 --> 01:48:11,200 Speaker 1: going on. We tried to have a crystal ball method, 1912 01:48:11,280 --> 01:48:13,960 Speaker 1: if you will, in the beginning of writing this record, 1913 01:48:15,160 --> 01:48:16,920 Speaker 1: because we looked at each other and we were like 1914 01:48:17,479 --> 01:48:20,639 Speaker 1: nobody's gonna and we started writing it in twenty twenty, 1915 01:48:21,840 --> 01:48:25,679 Speaker 1: and it was let's write like it's three years from now. 1916 01:48:25,960 --> 01:48:28,080 Speaker 1: Let's do it that way. Well, just we'll act like 1917 01:48:28,120 --> 01:48:32,200 Speaker 1: this isn't even happening, But it was happening all around us. 1918 01:48:32,280 --> 01:48:37,480 Speaker 1: I arrived in Charleston, South Carolina, with Eric, the producer 1919 01:48:37,479 --> 01:48:40,479 Speaker 1: of Planet Zero, and the mixer and the engineer of 1920 01:48:40,520 --> 01:48:44,040 Speaker 1: the record, our bass player who also did the last record, engineered, 1921 01:48:44,120 --> 01:48:49,680 Speaker 1: mixed it, and produced it. We built a studio in 1922 01:48:49,840 --> 01:48:52,000 Speaker 1: eighteen weeks because we didn't know when we were going 1923 01:48:52,040 --> 01:48:54,639 Speaker 1: to be able to get into a studio to start recording, 1924 01:48:54,680 --> 01:48:56,559 Speaker 1: so we just took eighteen weeks on his property and 1925 01:48:56,600 --> 01:48:58,920 Speaker 1: built a studio from the ground up. And while we 1926 01:48:58,920 --> 01:49:01,240 Speaker 1: were doing that, we're also watching the news. You couldn't 1927 01:49:01,240 --> 01:49:03,960 Speaker 1: stop but look at your device. You know, everything that 1928 01:49:04,040 --> 01:49:08,320 Speaker 1: was going on, the social injustice, the you know, the 1929 01:49:08,479 --> 01:49:11,680 Speaker 1: plague of COVID nineteen and everything that was going on 1930 01:49:11,720 --> 01:49:13,680 Speaker 1: with that, the divisiveness. It didn't help that it was 1931 01:49:13,680 --> 01:49:16,320 Speaker 1: an election year, this time in human history, where people 1932 01:49:16,320 --> 01:49:20,080 Speaker 1: should have been banding together. In America, we had the 1933 01:49:20,160 --> 01:49:24,719 Speaker 1: most i mean polarization I've ever seen in at the time, 1934 01:49:24,800 --> 01:49:29,679 Speaker 1: the forty four years that I've been alive. So trying 1935 01:49:29,720 --> 01:49:33,639 Speaker 1: to write a record on good faith of all these 1936 01:49:33,680 --> 01:49:36,080 Speaker 1: different elements that you know, we're trying to act as 1937 01:49:36,120 --> 01:49:39,280 Speaker 1: if this stuff isn't going on around us was virtually impossible. 1938 01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:42,400 Speaker 1: And I just remember Eric looking at me when I 1939 01:49:42,439 --> 01:49:47,320 Speaker 1: got to South Carolina in June. He said, it feels 1940 01:49:47,360 --> 01:49:50,360 Speaker 1: like we're on planet zero. That's exactly what he said. 1941 01:49:50,640 --> 01:49:52,960 Speaker 1: And Planet zero was the first song written. And I 1942 01:49:53,000 --> 01:49:56,960 Speaker 1: know what you're talking about with you know, the language 1943 01:49:57,000 --> 01:50:00,559 Speaker 1: and the record and the dynamic of s and things. 1944 01:50:00,640 --> 01:50:04,000 Speaker 1: You know, the last song on the album, which is 1945 01:50:04,040 --> 01:50:07,639 Speaker 1: a song called what You Wanted, and it talks about 1946 01:50:07,680 --> 01:50:09,960 Speaker 1: it has that lingo in there like it didn't subscribe 1947 01:50:10,000 --> 01:50:12,240 Speaker 1: and all these different types of things, and you know, 1948 01:50:12,280 --> 01:50:14,160 Speaker 1: the course of that song is like goodbye, so long, 1949 01:50:14,200 --> 01:50:16,160 Speaker 1: see you later, good night. Did you get what you wanted? 1950 01:50:16,400 --> 01:50:19,200 Speaker 1: You know? Is this what you wanted? And that you 1951 01:50:19,240 --> 01:50:21,599 Speaker 1: got to remember that was written in the midst of 1952 01:50:22,640 --> 01:50:25,439 Speaker 1: everything that was going on in not only the United 1953 01:50:25,479 --> 01:50:28,360 Speaker 1: States but the entire world. And we're a band that 1954 01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:31,160 Speaker 1: has to talk about what we know, the situations that 1955 01:50:31,160 --> 01:50:34,080 Speaker 1: we're in front of in the scenarios that we're being presented, 1956 01:50:34,439 --> 01:50:37,559 Speaker 1: and once again, how do you overcome it. You have 1957 01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:39,519 Speaker 1: to talk about what it is and what it means 1958 01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:41,680 Speaker 1: and what's actually going on, but you also have to 1959 01:50:41,720 --> 01:50:44,400 Speaker 1: dissect it and make sure that everybody's looking at everything 1960 01:50:45,560 --> 01:50:48,880 Speaker 1: with the wool not being pulled over their eyes. And 1961 01:50:50,680 --> 01:50:53,479 Speaker 1: there's so much symbolism in the record, but there's a 1962 01:50:53,479 --> 01:50:58,200 Speaker 1: lot of truth in the record. And I remember one 1963 01:50:58,200 --> 01:51:01,800 Speaker 1: of the earliest songs that was written on Planet Zero, 1964 01:51:01,920 --> 01:51:06,240 Speaker 1: aside from Planet Zero, the song and What You Wanted, 1965 01:51:06,280 --> 01:51:09,000 Speaker 1: Those were two of the songs that were actually written first, 1966 01:51:09,479 --> 01:51:12,679 Speaker 1: but I remember I think it was right after we did. 1967 01:51:13,920 --> 01:51:17,400 Speaker 1: I think it was right after What You Wanted. My 1968 01:51:17,560 --> 01:51:20,840 Speaker 1: favorite song on the record was written, and that's a 1969 01:51:20,840 --> 01:51:25,000 Speaker 1: song called a Symptom of being Human. And the symptom 1970 01:51:25,040 --> 01:51:27,280 Speaker 1: of being human in a lot of ways is a gift. 1971 01:51:27,840 --> 01:51:29,920 Speaker 1: And why I call it a gift is on every 1972 01:51:29,920 --> 01:51:32,080 Speaker 1: record you hope to get one gift. You don't always 1973 01:51:32,120 --> 01:51:33,960 Speaker 1: get a gift on a record. But what a gift 1974 01:51:34,080 --> 01:51:36,680 Speaker 1: is is a song that writes itself. It comes out 1975 01:51:36,680 --> 01:51:39,640 Speaker 1: of nowhere. You didn't wake up that day expecting to 1976 01:51:39,680 --> 01:51:45,360 Speaker 1: write this song with these heartfelt lyrics and this crescendo 1977 01:51:45,439 --> 01:51:50,479 Speaker 1: of sound, it just happens. And that's exactly what occurred 1978 01:51:50,479 --> 01:51:53,920 Speaker 1: with A Symptom of Being Human. And the interesting thing 1979 01:51:53,920 --> 01:51:56,080 Speaker 1: about it was inside of all the chaos that we 1980 01:51:56,080 --> 01:51:59,080 Speaker 1: were watching on television and on our smartphones, and we're 1981 01:51:59,080 --> 01:52:01,160 Speaker 1: trying to dissect everything that was going on. We're trying 1982 01:52:01,160 --> 01:52:03,160 Speaker 1: to build a studio and we're trying to think about 1983 01:52:03,200 --> 01:52:04,880 Speaker 1: what kind of record we're gonna make and are we 1984 01:52:04,920 --> 01:52:06,920 Speaker 1: going to piss people off? And we've never talked about 1985 01:52:06,920 --> 01:52:09,519 Speaker 1: this type of stuff, and we've never done this before, 1986 01:52:09,560 --> 01:52:11,880 Speaker 1: and we've never been political, and we've never talked about 1987 01:52:11,880 --> 01:52:14,000 Speaker 1: these things. What are we doing is it's the right thing. 1988 01:52:14,160 --> 01:52:16,639 Speaker 1: So many things that we're just coming to a boiling 1989 01:52:16,680 --> 01:52:19,479 Speaker 1: point and then all of a sudden, this song falls 1990 01:52:19,479 --> 01:52:23,479 Speaker 1: into our lap and it's literally an example of the 1991 01:52:23,560 --> 01:52:29,559 Speaker 1: human spirit. It could not be a more honest and 1992 01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:35,120 Speaker 1: heartfelt song about being a human being and about living 1993 01:52:35,120 --> 01:52:37,360 Speaker 1: on this planet and having the gift of being alive 1994 01:52:37,479 --> 01:52:41,360 Speaker 1: right now because you're not promised tomorrow, and you know, 1995 01:52:41,400 --> 01:52:44,280 Speaker 1: A Symptom of being Human is exactly that. It talks 1996 01:52:44,320 --> 01:52:49,080 Speaker 1: about the uncertainty of tomorrow. It talks about the uncertainty 1997 01:52:49,320 --> 01:52:54,479 Speaker 1: of oneself. It encompasses this time in human history where 1998 01:52:54,520 --> 01:52:57,680 Speaker 1: everybody is now talking about mental health. Where it used 1999 01:52:57,680 --> 01:53:00,720 Speaker 1: to be about diet and exercise. Now it's about survival 2000 01:53:01,280 --> 01:53:04,360 Speaker 1: of the human spirit. It's about really the survival of 2001 01:53:04,360 --> 01:53:12,120 Speaker 1: our species. Because during the pandemic suicide rate, this is 2002 01:53:12,160 --> 01:53:17,800 Speaker 1: the most disturbing thing about it. In two nineteen, at 2003 01:53:17,800 --> 01:53:19,599 Speaker 1: the end of the year, one thing I should tell 2004 01:53:19,640 --> 01:53:24,040 Speaker 1: your listeners is that shine down. We've for the last 2005 01:53:24,080 --> 01:53:28,120 Speaker 1: decade we've been ambassadors for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, 2006 01:53:29,640 --> 01:53:35,559 Speaker 1: and the projection at the end of twenty nineteen was 2007 01:53:35,640 --> 01:53:40,719 Speaker 1: that the year twenty twenty was on record and hopes 2008 01:53:41,520 --> 01:53:45,320 Speaker 1: statistically to be the lowest number, to be the lowest 2009 01:53:45,320 --> 01:53:49,840 Speaker 1: percentage of suicide in North America in twenty twenty in 2010 01:53:49,880 --> 01:53:52,680 Speaker 1: over a decade, like they were projecting for for the 2011 01:53:52,800 --> 01:53:57,760 Speaker 1: rate to drop drastically in twenty twenty, and then the 2012 01:53:57,800 --> 01:54:04,639 Speaker 1: pandemic hit. November of twenty twenty. The stats were released 2013 01:54:04,880 --> 01:54:09,800 Speaker 1: and I don't have the exact numbers, but I do 2014 01:54:09,880 --> 01:54:17,800 Speaker 1: remember this that men and women aged fourteen to forty five, 2015 01:54:19,520 --> 01:54:24,519 Speaker 1: it was the highest percentage in the last decade, so 2016 01:54:24,560 --> 01:54:27,760 Speaker 1: it was completely reversed. What was supposed to be the 2017 01:54:27,800 --> 01:54:31,559 Speaker 1: lowest percentage became the highest percentage in over a decade. 2018 01:54:32,280 --> 01:54:36,200 Speaker 1: And that was part of why Symptom was such an 2019 01:54:36,240 --> 01:54:40,880 Speaker 1: important song and how it was about, you know, it's 2020 01:54:42,320 --> 01:54:45,080 Speaker 1: it's okay to struggle. It's okay. I know it feels 2021 01:54:45,080 --> 01:54:46,880 Speaker 1: like it's never gonna end. I know it feels like 2022 01:54:46,880 --> 01:54:49,080 Speaker 1: there's no tomorrow. I know it feels like everything is 2023 01:54:49,120 --> 01:54:54,280 Speaker 1: just crashing around you. You have to hold on. You've 2024 01:54:54,280 --> 01:54:56,160 Speaker 1: got to hold on. I'm not saying that you're not 2025 01:54:56,160 --> 01:54:57,680 Speaker 1: gonna have to put the work in. I'm not saying 2026 01:54:57,720 --> 01:54:59,920 Speaker 1: that it's not going to be difficult to get out 2027 01:55:00,040 --> 01:55:02,240 Speaker 1: of that hole that we talked about at the beginning, 2028 01:55:02,520 --> 01:55:03,960 Speaker 1: you know where sometimes you got to fall in a 2029 01:55:04,000 --> 01:55:06,800 Speaker 1: hole to figure it out. But the world didn't quote unquote, 2030 01:55:06,800 --> 01:55:09,880 Speaker 1: people didn't quote unquote ask for a pandemic to happen. 2031 01:55:10,000 --> 01:55:13,720 Speaker 1: It just happened. Now you got to figure out a 2032 01:55:13,760 --> 01:55:17,400 Speaker 1: way to give everybody back their spirit. Now you got 2033 01:55:17,400 --> 01:55:19,680 Speaker 1: to figure out a way to build people up. And 2034 01:55:19,720 --> 01:55:21,840 Speaker 1: the most powerful way to do that that I know 2035 01:55:21,920 --> 01:55:25,120 Speaker 1: of is with music. Because where I come from, music 2036 01:55:25,200 --> 01:55:29,600 Speaker 1: is medicine. And that's why I just feel it's you know, 2037 01:55:29,640 --> 01:55:33,200 Speaker 1: that song is extremely important. Okay, you know you've talked 2038 01:55:33,200 --> 01:55:38,480 Speaker 1: about the new album. Underneath this is the p word politics. Yeah, 2039 01:55:38,520 --> 01:55:40,320 Speaker 1: now you have a luxury. You didn't go on a 2040 01:55:40,400 --> 01:55:45,160 Speaker 1: plane for your first two decades. Basically, Now you've been 2041 01:55:45,160 --> 01:55:50,640 Speaker 1: all over the world many times. Okay, now we live. Okay. 2042 01:55:50,680 --> 01:55:54,320 Speaker 1: In terms of my experience with Tennessee, which is relatively limited, 2043 01:55:54,680 --> 01:55:57,560 Speaker 1: I've been in Nashville, I've been to Memphis. Both in 2044 01:55:57,680 --> 01:56:01,760 Speaker 1: Tennessee couldn't be more different, right, I know some people 2045 01:56:01,840 --> 01:56:05,880 Speaker 1: from Knoxville. I have not been to Knoxville. But what 2046 01:56:05,920 --> 01:56:11,200 Speaker 1: I'm saying is, yes, there is red and blue, there 2047 01:56:11,400 --> 01:56:15,240 Speaker 1: is VACS, there is anti vax, there is Twitter. We 2048 01:56:15,280 --> 01:56:18,200 Speaker 1: should have certain people shouldn't be on there, certain people 2049 01:56:18,280 --> 01:56:23,640 Speaker 1: should be on there. Since you and an addition, perception 2050 01:56:23,920 --> 01:56:30,000 Speaker 1: is that rock fans lean right, modern rock fans is 2051 01:56:30,040 --> 01:56:33,920 Speaker 1: supposed to people fans of classic rock whatever. Yeah, Well, 2052 01:56:35,000 --> 01:56:37,400 Speaker 1: what do you see since you're out there and what's 2053 01:56:37,400 --> 01:56:46,920 Speaker 1: going on? What I see, honestly is the best way 2054 01:56:46,960 --> 01:56:49,600 Speaker 1: I can say it is this because this is how 2055 01:56:49,680 --> 01:56:54,560 Speaker 1: I feel and how I view it all. It goes 2056 01:56:54,640 --> 01:57:00,200 Speaker 1: back to your smartphone, because that's kind of a part 2057 01:57:00,240 --> 01:57:03,320 Speaker 1: of us now in our society, And anybody can argue 2058 01:57:03,320 --> 01:57:05,000 Speaker 1: with me if they want to, but I mean, it's 2059 01:57:05,040 --> 01:57:09,040 Speaker 1: just the reality for the people that can afford it, 2060 01:57:09,080 --> 01:57:11,800 Speaker 1: and it's very affordable now because it's a part. Like 2061 01:57:11,840 --> 01:57:16,600 Speaker 1: there's so many people that I know that they will 2062 01:57:16,640 --> 01:57:19,720 Speaker 1: literally go into an absolute panic attack if they forget 2063 01:57:19,760 --> 01:57:22,440 Speaker 1: their phone or they like they dropped it or they 2064 01:57:22,520 --> 01:57:24,360 Speaker 1: left it somewhere or they busted or whatever. I mean, 2065 01:57:24,360 --> 01:57:26,840 Speaker 1: I've watched people like people that I've known for years, 2066 01:57:26,920 --> 01:57:29,560 Speaker 1: like if something happens through their smartphone and they lose 2067 01:57:29,560 --> 01:57:31,360 Speaker 1: it or they forgot it or it's not with them, 2068 01:57:31,400 --> 01:57:35,760 Speaker 1: they will freak out. So why am I saying that? 2069 01:57:35,800 --> 01:57:37,960 Speaker 1: And why am I? You know, what does that have 2070 01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:39,880 Speaker 1: any relevance to do with rock and roll? And to 2071 01:57:40,000 --> 01:57:42,960 Speaker 1: the right? And you know, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, 2072 01:57:43,480 --> 01:57:45,680 Speaker 1: red or blue or liberal or what have you, I 2073 01:57:45,680 --> 01:57:47,840 Speaker 1: will tell you this right now. For me personally, I 2074 01:57:47,880 --> 01:57:49,720 Speaker 1: think that there should be three parties. I don't think 2075 01:57:49,720 --> 01:57:51,680 Speaker 1: there should just be two parties. I think two parties 2076 01:57:51,680 --> 01:57:54,440 Speaker 1: it's kind of ridiculous at this point anyway. I think 2077 01:57:54,440 --> 01:57:56,720 Speaker 1: there should be a third party. Will that ever happen. 2078 01:57:56,800 --> 01:57:58,920 Speaker 1: I have no idea, and I'm talking about in North America, 2079 01:57:58,960 --> 01:58:03,440 Speaker 1: but that's my opinion because it's just it's intense on 2080 01:58:03,480 --> 01:58:05,920 Speaker 1: both sides. And the thing about it is, what I 2081 01:58:05,920 --> 01:58:09,960 Speaker 1: would tell you is this, if you get outside of 2082 01:58:10,040 --> 01:58:15,320 Speaker 1: your phone, if you get off of certain social media 2083 01:58:15,400 --> 01:58:19,600 Speaker 1: and take a break and go out into the real world. 2084 01:58:19,640 --> 01:58:22,800 Speaker 1: I'm talking about the real world where and you're talking 2085 01:58:22,840 --> 01:58:28,920 Speaker 1: about Tennessee, Memphis, Knoxville, Nashville. Those three places are actually 2086 01:58:28,920 --> 01:58:35,160 Speaker 1: more similar than you think because a lot of Nashville, Knoxville, 2087 01:58:35,200 --> 01:58:39,320 Speaker 1: in Memphis, a lot of the same minded people. You'd 2088 01:58:39,360 --> 01:58:42,960 Speaker 1: find him in Colorado. In Colorado, you'd probably find him 2089 01:58:43,000 --> 01:58:46,280 Speaker 1: in Maine. In Maine, I bet you. I'm gonna say it. 2090 01:58:46,280 --> 01:58:48,840 Speaker 1: It's gonna probably not necessarily sit well with certain people 2091 01:58:48,880 --> 01:58:50,920 Speaker 1: because they won't believe me, but I'm gonna tell it's true. 2092 01:58:51,240 --> 01:58:55,000 Speaker 1: People in Maine you would probably find that the way 2093 01:58:55,000 --> 01:58:57,640 Speaker 1: that they look at politics is ride in line with 2094 01:58:57,680 --> 01:59:00,840 Speaker 1: a lot of people in Florida. Oh here's the thing 2095 01:59:00,840 --> 01:59:03,240 Speaker 1: what I'm getting at. When you go out into the 2096 01:59:03,280 --> 01:59:08,240 Speaker 1: real world and you get off of this constant news feed. 2097 01:59:08,400 --> 01:59:10,440 Speaker 1: Remember how back in the day news would come on 2098 01:59:10,520 --> 01:59:14,040 Speaker 1: three times, and that's all you got. And they would 2099 01:59:14,040 --> 01:59:16,919 Speaker 1: just tell you the news, and like at three o'clock 2100 01:59:17,520 --> 01:59:19,160 Speaker 1: they would give you the news, and then at like 2101 01:59:19,200 --> 01:59:21,839 Speaker 1: eleven o'clock they give you the news, and sometimes five o'clock, 2102 01:59:21,880 --> 01:59:23,400 Speaker 1: at five o'clock they give you news. They give it 2103 01:59:23,400 --> 01:59:25,600 Speaker 1: to you again at eleven and a lot of places 2104 01:59:25,800 --> 01:59:28,200 Speaker 1: the five o'clock news was the same as the eleven 2105 01:59:28,240 --> 01:59:32,120 Speaker 1: o'clock news. It didn't change that much. You have a 2106 01:59:32,200 --> 01:59:38,000 Speaker 1: constant filter, a constant iv of just carnage. How bad 2107 01:59:38,120 --> 01:59:41,400 Speaker 1: is it, Like, let's get every bad. It's nothing can 2108 01:59:41,440 --> 01:59:44,400 Speaker 1: be good. We can't have anything that's good. It's got 2109 01:59:44,400 --> 01:59:47,040 Speaker 1: to be bad. And it's just it's clickbait a lot 2110 01:59:47,120 --> 01:59:49,040 Speaker 1: of times, you know, they're looking for likes, they're looking 2111 01:59:49,120 --> 01:59:51,920 Speaker 1: for they want you to hit the button. So if 2112 01:59:52,520 --> 01:59:56,160 Speaker 1: from the political side of things, when you go out 2113 01:59:56,200 --> 01:59:59,880 Speaker 1: into the real world, people aren't trying to destroy each other, 2114 02:00:01,320 --> 02:00:04,600 Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not. I don't see that. I don't 2115 02:00:04,640 --> 02:00:08,360 Speaker 1: see people, you know, actively trying to mess with one another. 2116 02:00:09,120 --> 02:00:11,800 Speaker 1: I don't actively say and I'm I've gone all over 2117 02:00:11,840 --> 02:00:14,040 Speaker 1: the world. I will continue, God willing, you know, to 2118 02:00:14,160 --> 02:00:17,000 Speaker 1: go all over the world for as long as that 2119 02:00:17,080 --> 02:00:21,760 Speaker 1: I'm meant to be here. But that is a focus 2120 02:00:21,880 --> 02:00:26,000 Speaker 1: that it doesn't necessarily have to become political. And I 2121 02:00:26,080 --> 02:00:30,960 Speaker 1: often tell people this too in society. We live in 2122 02:00:31,000 --> 02:00:38,480 Speaker 1: a country where it's a democratic republic and it's it's 2123 02:00:38,560 --> 02:00:42,120 Speaker 1: laid out a certain way for a reason, and everybody 2124 02:00:42,120 --> 02:00:44,000 Speaker 1: has an opinion about it. Now, do I think that 2125 02:00:44,240 --> 02:00:48,200 Speaker 1: certain amendments should be updated, Yes, I do think that 2126 02:00:48,240 --> 02:00:51,280 Speaker 1: they should some of them, but a lot of them 2127 02:00:51,280 --> 02:00:53,920 Speaker 1: are in that constitution for a reason, to not have 2128 02:00:54,080 --> 02:00:59,000 Speaker 1: full on anarchy, to not have full on just chaos. 2129 02:01:00,280 --> 02:01:04,560 Speaker 1: And the best thing that I can tell you is 2130 02:01:04,680 --> 02:01:09,800 Speaker 1: I believe that human beings are inherently good. I truly do, 2131 02:01:10,000 --> 02:01:11,960 Speaker 1: because I've seen it with my own eyes on a 2132 02:01:12,040 --> 02:01:14,400 Speaker 1: daily basis. If you're looking for chaos, I guess you 2133 02:01:14,400 --> 02:01:18,720 Speaker 1: can find it anywhere. But in the last three years, 2134 02:01:18,840 --> 02:01:22,720 Speaker 1: what I've noticed, in what I've seen is that everyday, 2135 02:01:22,760 --> 02:01:25,840 Speaker 1: people that make up the majority of this planet. I'm 2136 02:01:25,840 --> 02:01:27,800 Speaker 1: not just talking about America, I'm talking about the majority 2137 02:01:27,800 --> 02:01:29,840 Speaker 1: of the planet. There are more of us than there 2138 02:01:29,920 --> 02:01:33,560 Speaker 1: are of them. And what I mean by that is 2139 02:01:33,600 --> 02:01:37,080 Speaker 1: political figures should be put in office by the people 2140 02:01:37,400 --> 02:01:42,560 Speaker 1: to represent the people You're not God. That's not the 2141 02:01:42,600 --> 02:01:44,280 Speaker 1: way it should be looked at. And I'm not for 2142 02:01:44,560 --> 02:01:47,240 Speaker 1: career politicians. I don't think that, you know, if you're 2143 02:01:47,240 --> 02:01:49,000 Speaker 1: in the Senator of the Congress, you can you know 2144 02:01:49,040 --> 02:01:50,920 Speaker 1: you get in when you're thirty five, that you need 2145 02:01:50,960 --> 02:01:54,480 Speaker 1: to stay there until you're a hundred. So, you know, 2146 02:01:54,600 --> 02:01:56,000 Speaker 1: I'm saying a lot of things that a lot of 2147 02:01:56,000 --> 02:01:59,720 Speaker 1: people feel. I'm trying to explain also too, it's not 2148 02:01:59,760 --> 02:02:02,120 Speaker 1: just about rock and roll. It's not just because somebody 2149 02:02:02,240 --> 02:02:04,200 Speaker 1: is into rock and roll music. That person could be 2150 02:02:04,240 --> 02:02:06,840 Speaker 1: into hip hop music. That hip hop music person could 2151 02:02:06,840 --> 02:02:10,839 Speaker 1: be into country music. You know, music is our saving grace, 2152 02:02:11,120 --> 02:02:13,440 Speaker 1: if you will, It's what keeps us all, it's what 2153 02:02:13,560 --> 02:02:17,040 Speaker 1: glues us together. So isn't it interesting and the human 2154 02:02:17,160 --> 02:02:20,520 Speaker 1: history that the universe and Mother Nature tested everybody? Because 2155 02:02:20,520 --> 02:02:22,320 Speaker 1: I can tell you right now you're talking about the Internet. 2156 02:02:22,920 --> 02:02:25,200 Speaker 1: The Internet everyone wants to say is undefeated. I can 2157 02:02:25,240 --> 02:02:27,600 Speaker 1: tell you that is not true. Mother Nature is undefeated. 2158 02:02:27,680 --> 02:02:30,920 Speaker 1: She proved that, and she's proved it time and time again. 2159 02:02:31,280 --> 02:02:34,560 Speaker 1: And isn't it interesting how the universe and Mother Nature 2160 02:02:34,960 --> 02:02:39,600 Speaker 1: gave human beings an opportunity to see what we would 2161 02:02:39,640 --> 02:02:42,760 Speaker 1: do in these last three years, and everybody has to 2162 02:02:42,840 --> 02:02:44,960 Speaker 1: kind of look at each other and go, what did 2163 02:02:45,000 --> 02:02:48,840 Speaker 1: we do? What have we done? And what are we 2164 02:02:48,880 --> 02:02:53,440 Speaker 1: going to do now? And that's the biggest question. But 2165 02:02:53,560 --> 02:02:56,320 Speaker 1: when it comes to music, that's what joins us together. 2166 02:02:56,600 --> 02:02:59,000 Speaker 1: So you take two years and everybody says, stay away 2167 02:02:59,000 --> 02:03:02,800 Speaker 1: from each other, don't go anywhere near one another, stay away, 2168 02:03:02,920 --> 02:03:07,080 Speaker 1: you want to do your part, stay apart. It's just 2169 02:03:07,240 --> 02:03:13,440 Speaker 1: very interesting how life unravels sometimes and unfolds at the 2170 02:03:13,520 --> 02:03:17,800 Speaker 1: same time. We don't know how long we're here, but 2171 02:03:17,840 --> 02:03:20,800 Speaker 1: while we're here, I think we should do everything that 2172 02:03:20,840 --> 02:03:23,920 Speaker 1: we possibly can to be together and to celebrate together 2173 02:03:24,240 --> 02:03:27,680 Speaker 1: and to push forward together. That's ultimately what I see 2174 02:03:27,680 --> 02:03:30,680 Speaker 1: in people. It's not about red or blue. It's just 2175 02:03:30,720 --> 02:03:36,160 Speaker 1: about being human and being respectful. Okay, so you've had 2176 02:03:36,160 --> 02:03:38,920 Speaker 1: this incredible career in excess of two decades, you've had 2177 02:03:38,920 --> 02:03:43,240 Speaker 1: a lot of success. Looking forward, what would you like 2178 02:03:43,320 --> 02:03:47,840 Speaker 1: to accomplish or what mark would you like to leave? Bob, 2179 02:03:47,840 --> 02:03:49,520 Speaker 1: we were having such a good time and now you 2180 02:03:49,520 --> 02:03:55,720 Speaker 1: want to get all dark, like you're talking about the 2181 02:03:55,840 --> 02:03:58,760 Speaker 1: end of stuff. What I want to leave I haven't 2182 02:03:58,760 --> 02:04:05,920 Speaker 1: even begun. I think that for me and I know 2183 02:04:06,000 --> 02:04:10,840 Speaker 1: for the band. When I look at it all, I 2184 02:04:10,880 --> 02:04:12,320 Speaker 1: want to see all the guys that I'm in a 2185 02:04:12,360 --> 02:04:17,080 Speaker 1: band with. I want to see them fulfilled. I want 2186 02:04:17,080 --> 02:04:23,440 Speaker 1: to see Eric and Zach and Barry. I want to 2187 02:04:23,440 --> 02:04:26,360 Speaker 1: see them all four of us. I mean, because we 2188 02:04:26,400 --> 02:04:30,280 Speaker 1: are in a band together, I want us to be 2189 02:04:30,320 --> 02:04:33,280 Speaker 1: honest with each other, because we've always been honest with 2190 02:04:33,320 --> 02:04:35,520 Speaker 1: each other. That's one of the reasons why we've been 2191 02:04:35,520 --> 02:04:37,920 Speaker 1: a band for as long as we have. The reason 2192 02:04:37,960 --> 02:04:40,640 Speaker 1: I'm bringing this up is because it's important, because it 2193 02:04:40,640 --> 02:04:45,000 Speaker 1: comes down to the band. Your happiness depends on your 2194 02:04:45,040 --> 02:04:50,360 Speaker 1: mental health, your communication with each other. You know, because 2195 02:04:50,440 --> 02:04:53,400 Speaker 1: as time changes two decades, one guy might want one 2196 02:04:53,440 --> 02:04:55,880 Speaker 1: thing in the beginning, another guy might want something different. 2197 02:04:55,880 --> 02:04:57,960 Speaker 1: Ten years down the line, another guy might. You know 2198 02:04:58,000 --> 02:05:00,480 Speaker 1: what I mean, It goes back and forth. It's constantly evolving. 2199 02:05:01,640 --> 02:05:03,920 Speaker 1: I want to be able to continue to make the 2200 02:05:03,960 --> 02:05:06,560 Speaker 1: best music and the strongest music and the best songs 2201 02:05:06,560 --> 02:05:10,720 Speaker 1: that we possibly can. I want to continue growing the audience. 2202 02:05:10,960 --> 02:05:14,080 Speaker 1: I want to continue having the opportunity and the blessing 2203 02:05:14,760 --> 02:05:17,880 Speaker 1: of being able to travel the world. There's yes, You're right, 2204 02:05:17,960 --> 02:05:19,760 Speaker 1: I've We've been all over the world to a lot 2205 02:05:19,800 --> 02:05:22,520 Speaker 1: of different places, but we've not been everywhere. And there's 2206 02:05:22,520 --> 02:05:23,840 Speaker 1: a lot of places that we want to go to, 2207 02:05:23,960 --> 02:05:25,400 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of places that we want to 2208 02:05:25,400 --> 02:05:27,000 Speaker 1: play for, and a lot of people we want to 2209 02:05:27,000 --> 02:05:29,280 Speaker 1: play for that we haven't had an opportunity to yet. 2210 02:05:30,800 --> 02:05:33,160 Speaker 1: You know, all of us have kids that are growing up. 2211 02:05:34,280 --> 02:05:39,720 Speaker 1: You know, Zak has two young boys, Barry's daughters, Stella 2212 02:05:39,960 --> 02:05:43,960 Speaker 1: is approaching being a teenager. You know, we're all family men, 2213 02:05:44,520 --> 02:05:47,360 Speaker 1: and we love our families. We we care about them. 2214 02:05:48,800 --> 02:05:50,360 Speaker 1: I gotta give a lot of credit to to the 2215 02:05:50,360 --> 02:05:54,960 Speaker 1: women in this in this band and the wives, because 2216 02:05:56,920 --> 02:05:59,200 Speaker 1: they really do get it. They really do understand what 2217 02:05:59,200 --> 02:06:01,400 Speaker 1: it is we do gone for a long period of time. 2218 02:06:01,440 --> 02:06:03,400 Speaker 1: It's we're at a certain point in our career now 2219 02:06:03,400 --> 02:06:05,400 Speaker 1: where we can bring them out for long periods of time, 2220 02:06:05,600 --> 02:06:08,360 Speaker 1: which helps out a lot. But we just want to 2221 02:06:08,360 --> 02:06:11,400 Speaker 1: continue being successful. We're never ever gonna there's never gonna 2222 02:06:11,400 --> 02:06:14,160 Speaker 1: be a top, They'll never ever be a ceiling with us. 2223 02:06:16,080 --> 02:06:19,080 Speaker 1: I don't think it exists. We've always looked at it 2224 02:06:19,120 --> 02:06:22,520 Speaker 1: the same way. Everything that we do together. It's like 2225 02:06:22,560 --> 02:06:24,320 Speaker 1: looking at a mountain, and if you're looking at the 2226 02:06:24,360 --> 02:06:26,920 Speaker 1: mountain and it's just you and you're staying to yourself. 2227 02:06:26,920 --> 02:06:28,560 Speaker 1: There's absolutely no way I can get to the top 2228 02:06:28,600 --> 02:06:32,040 Speaker 1: of this. You're probably right, not by yourself, but if 2229 02:06:32,040 --> 02:06:37,000 Speaker 1: you do it together, you're probably limitless. And you know, 2230 02:06:37,200 --> 02:06:39,240 Speaker 1: each mountain you climb together, you take a minute when 2231 02:06:39,240 --> 02:06:41,520 Speaker 1: you get to the top, and you high five, you 2232 02:06:41,560 --> 02:06:42,920 Speaker 1: give each other a hug, you say a good job, 2233 02:06:42,920 --> 02:06:45,200 Speaker 1: and you go find a bigger mountain. And that's why 2234 02:06:45,240 --> 02:06:48,400 Speaker 1: we're here. You know, things could change, things could evolve. 2235 02:06:49,720 --> 02:06:51,400 Speaker 1: I think we all want to watch our kids grow 2236 02:06:51,480 --> 02:06:53,960 Speaker 1: up and become young adults and have families, and we 2237 02:06:54,000 --> 02:07:00,080 Speaker 1: want to be there for them too. But ultimately, I 2238 02:07:00,120 --> 02:07:03,480 Speaker 1: don't think I can stress it enough. How lucky we 2239 02:07:03,520 --> 02:07:07,920 Speaker 1: are to do what we love for a living. My 2240 02:07:07,960 --> 02:07:11,520 Speaker 1: granny always used to say, if you find something you 2241 02:07:11,600 --> 02:07:14,320 Speaker 1: love that you want to do for the rest of 2242 02:07:14,360 --> 02:07:17,160 Speaker 1: your life, and you'll never work a day in your life. 2243 02:07:17,240 --> 02:07:18,800 Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of work. It's 2244 02:07:18,880 --> 02:07:22,720 Speaker 1: it's hard work, but I live for it. I love it, 2245 02:07:23,160 --> 02:07:25,800 Speaker 1: and that in and of itself is a gift to 2246 02:07:25,840 --> 02:07:28,760 Speaker 1: be able to do what you love for a living. 2247 02:07:28,960 --> 02:07:33,320 Speaker 1: So I just want to keep grinding and on that note, 2248 02:07:33,360 --> 02:07:35,720 Speaker 1: I think we're going to close it for today. We 2249 02:07:35,880 --> 02:07:39,680 Speaker 1: certainly could go on for much longer, but we'll let 2250 02:07:39,800 --> 02:07:42,360 Speaker 1: the audience take a break at this point. So, Brent, 2251 02:07:42,440 --> 02:07:44,000 Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for taking the 2252 02:07:44,000 --> 02:07:46,160 Speaker 1: time to talk to me in my audience. It was 2253 02:07:46,200 --> 02:07:49,040 Speaker 1: an absolute pleasure and a massive, massive honor. Thank you 2254 02:07:49,080 --> 02:07:51,040 Speaker 1: so so much. This is one of the best conversations 2255 02:07:51,040 --> 02:07:52,960 Speaker 1: I've had in the longest time. I had a blast, 2256 02:07:53,800 --> 02:07:57,920 Speaker 1: and I love talking to you too. Okay, till next time. 2257 02:07:58,200 --> 02:07:59,560 Speaker 1: This is Bob left Sense