WEBVTT - Introducing: Finding Mom's Killer 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.600 Hi there, it's Steve Fishman. You know me as co 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:05.920 host of the Burden. I want to recommend another hit 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:10.479 true crime series today. It's called Finding Mom's Killer. I 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:15.400 hosted this one too, and it's really good. Okay, Imagine 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.440 an eleven year old boy teams with a middle aged 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:22.120 detective to solve a murder. That's all I'm going to say. 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:25.680 We're dropping the first episode for you today to hear 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.920 the rest of the series. Look for Finding Mom's Killer 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:31.240 wherever you get your podcasts. 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.879 Raison right, old lad, you swear truth, truth, and that's 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:42.919 what the truth around you got. 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.280 Will you tell us who you are? I'm Callier Landry Boyle. 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:49.120 Do you tell us how old you are? Now? 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:50.599 I'm twelve years old. 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:55.840 It's nineteen ninety and we're in a courtroom in Mansfield, Ohio. 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:00.160 The prosecution star witness has just taking the stand. He's 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.440 about to describe something that happened one faithful night a 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:04.280 few months ago. 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.240 You awoke at three to three point fifteen am. I 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.240 believe it was your time, okay, and what it woke you? 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:17.360 I heard the two bangs, and I heard the scream okay, 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:19.840 and that's when I heard the footsteps. 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.640 Then you got up in the morning, Yes, I did. 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:27.600 And what was the first thing you did? 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:29.840 I looked at my mother's bedroom. 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.680 Were you alarmed when you got into the bedroom or yes. 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:34.880 I was. 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.320 Why was that the bed covers were all messed up, 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:41.800 her bedclothes were just lying a pile. 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.480 Crazy was going through your mind at that time? What 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:46.119 were you thinking? 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:48.120 Where's my mother? 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:56.000 Cold? 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.040 Landry Boyle wasn't your average twelve year old. 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:02.000 He was very smart. He was very determined. 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.960 So when his mother went missing, Collier decided it was 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:10.480 up to him to find her. From Sony Music, Entertainment 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.760 and Orbit Media, this is Finding Mom's Killer. 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:15.480 I'm Steve Fishman. 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:20.000 This is the story of how a precocious kid joined 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:24.079 forces with a most unlikely partner. Together, they set out 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.880 to solve the mystery of his mother's disappearance. Along the way, 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:37.040 they'd unearthed one terrible family secret after another episode one 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:49.400 a little vacation. On New Year's Day nineteen ninety six 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:52.640 months before that twelve year old boy took the witness stand, 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:57.440 the Mansfield, Ohio Police Department was swamped with the usual 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:02.760 holiday stuff barbrasly conduct so when a forty four year 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:06.560 old woman named Noren Boyle was reported missing. It was 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.920 not a top priority. 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:15.080 She was listed as a missing person by some of 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.600 the friends of hers, not family. But that's not unusual. 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.359 This is Lieutenant Dave Messmore of the Mansfield Police. When 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:27.120 Noring Boyle's disappearance landed on his desk, he didn't think 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.919 much of it. A couple of uniform patrolmen had been 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.800 sent over to her house to check things out. Their conclusion, 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:36.560 nothing to worry about. 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:41.240 Somebody will run off, they have a dispute with their spouse, 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:43.920 and they'll run away, and they come back, and you know, 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.160 there's only so much you can do with a missing person. 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.680 As you might have gathered, Lieutenant Dave miss Moore isn't 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.520 exactly the excitable type in appearance. He kind of fades 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:00.760 into the background. He's got thinning hair, a lampshade mustache, 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:05.720 sensible glasses. He takes his time. He's methodical. He assumed 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:09.200 Noreen Boyle was just an unhappy wife in an unhappy 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:13.600 marriage who needed a little alone time. Then one day 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.040 at his office he received a phone call from a 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.080 close friend of Noreen's. 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:22.279 And she said, I'm telling you this is not right. 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.440 Noreen would never do that, and I said, well, you know, 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:28.480 maybe she would just upset. No, no, I'm telling it. 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.400 I said, I'll stop over and see what's going on. 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.880 So on January tewod Dave climbed into his department issued 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:46.280 used oldsmobile and drove over to Noreen Boyle's house. Now 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:50.200 Dave was the Mansfield Police Department's head of major Crimes. 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.599 He wasn't supposed to go chase down leads on low 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:59.120 priority cases, but Dave low key, laconic, Dave is full 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.280 of surprises. By this point, he'd been on the force 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.640 for fifteen years, and he developed a reputation for striking 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.080 out on his own, for bucking his superiors. 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:10.520 He once put away. 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:14.200 A friend, a fellow cop no less from murder. People 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:16.520 learned it was best not to get in his way. 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.320 Another time, he had a kid with a knife cornered. 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:22.680 Other cops debated the next step. 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:24.440 Dave rushed him. 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.279 I black tacked him and just knocked him cold. 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.719 Dave, without blackjack, figured he'd head over to the Boyle 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.760 residence have a word with Noreen's husband, a prominent local 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:43.200 doctor named Jack Boyle. He arrived at the house, walked 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:45.280 up the front steps, rang the doorbell. 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:50.719 It was like late morning, early afternoon. The doorbell rings, 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:54.760 and is this guy in a sport coat with him 0:05:55.240 --> 0:06:00.520 bushy mustache, glasses, taggy pants named Dave were. 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:03.720 This is Kylier Boyle. He was the kid you had 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.320 testifying at the top of the show. He's a lot 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:11.039 older now. When Lieutenant Dave Messmore arrived at the Boyle residence, 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:15.920 it was Collier's grandmother, that's his father's mother, who answered 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:16.360 the door. 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:19.160 Klia hovered in the background. 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:25.039 I'm standing there over my grandmother's shoulder, and Dave was 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:26.599 setting to my grandmother, well, you know, I likes to 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.800 talk to the doctor, and you know, just kind of 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.960 curious what you know. He was just very calm. It's 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.960 a very calm guy, very collected, I mean, very detective, 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.359 like you know what I mean, just looking around, looking 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:43.960 at things, taking everything in just I'm going to get 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.320 to the bottom of this type of thing. And I 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.800 remember he kind of charms his way in and my 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:53.159 grandmother's like, I'm going to call my son, and she 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.280 goes and she leaves to go make the phone call 0:06:56.279 --> 0:07:00.120 in the kitchen. And I knew at that point that 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.560 was like my one shot, because here I am alone 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:04.600 with a police officer. 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.640 Klier made an impression on Dave. This was a kid 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.440 who dressed in chinos and penny loafers. He had a 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:16.640 perfectly quaff brown bob. He looked like a tiny adult. 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:19.720 It was not like a little eleven or twelve year 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.920 old you'd normally talk to. He was just very astute, 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:27.080 very well spoken. Whenever his grandmother would walk away, he'd 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.720 say things that make you wonder if there was something wrong. 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:33.760 And I say to Dave, I look him dead in 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:38.080 the eyes and I say, my mother would never leave me. 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:41.720 He said, my mother would never leave without me or 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:43.600 without me knowing where she was going. 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:46.680 And I think he's looking at me in a very 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:48.800 peculiar way, like who is this kid? But I could 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:50.840 he could just tell her was so adamant. 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.480 He said something happened, and I said, okay, I'll work 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:55.800 on that. 0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:58.280 Kye was surprised. 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.840 He hadn't expected this who suddenly showed up on the 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.880 doorstep to actually listen to him. 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.440 I could just tell when I said to Dave, my 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.679 mother would never leave me, something has happened to her. 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.960 He just looked at me like he could tell that 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:22.280 I was serious. I remember in that moment that there 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.680 was this hope. 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:27.840 Dave did take Kyyer seriously. 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.840 Still, he didn't have any clues to follow, just the 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.440 concerns of an anxious adolescent son. 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:41.280 Dave. 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.480 He decided to talk it over with his wife, who 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:46.760 refers to him as Hubby by the way. 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.080 Well, she said that doesn't sound right. She said, that 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:52.720 doesn't sound like a kid that doesn't know where his 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.880 mother is. And I said, well, so I'm gonna go 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.320 back and see if I can't talk to him some more. 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:03.400 Once again, Dave headed to the Boyle residence, where he 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:09.000 was met once again by doctor Jack Boyle's mother, Collier's grandmother. 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.720 And she said, what do you want? And I said, what, 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.720 I kind of like to talk to you and Callier again, Well, 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.480 when do you come around bothering people like this? I said, 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.840 I'm not bothering anybody. I just like to solve this 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.720 and find out where she is. I said, when is 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.840 doctor Boyle going to be home? Well, he should be 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:29.680 back the night. This is starting to bother me. 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.280 So later that evening, yet again, Dave drove to the 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:41.679 Boyle residence. For those keeping score, that's his third visit 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:42.200 of the day. 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.240 On the door when I got there was a letter 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:52.600 and it said, no one in this house has permission 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.560 to talk to the police. And I was assigned by 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:56.200 an attorney. 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:56.520 I know. 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.600 A note on the door wasn't going to stay, Lieutenant 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:02.840 Dave messmore So. 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.200 When I knocked on the door, the attorney answered the door, 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.360 and I said, what's going on here? Well, the doctor 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:11.640 doesn't really have anything to say. His wife walked out 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:15.200 and left. There's nothing he can really tell you. I said, well, 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:17.840 I'd like to talk to him. Said, well, he doesn't 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:18.360 want to talk. 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:21.880 I said, hmm hmm. 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:28.920 That's Dave's characteristically restrained reaction to any new suspicion. So Dave, 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.840 now suspicious, decided he'd start looking into doctor Jack Boyle. 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:38.560 As it turned out, doctor Boyle's patients really loved him. 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:40.040 They described him as. 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:44.400 Funny, intelligent, gregarious, caring, the kind of doctor who'd go 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:48.000 above and beyond, who'd make house calls and stay up 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:48.640 all night. 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:50.360 At the bedside of a sick patient. 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.600 Even at the police department, Dave discovered his fellow cops 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:56.320 were fans. 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.520 Some of the guys that work for me were ex Marines, 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.680 So they said, yeah, we know about doctor Boyle. He's 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:07.840 the next Navy doctor, retired Navy doctor and blue Jets 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.959 over in Vietnam, and he's just a great guy. 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.480 Plus, one of Jack's friends said he was devastated that 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:19.439 Noreen left. She recalled Jack sobbing on the phone to her. 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:24.679 She's gone, She's gone. And then Dave learned something that 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.800 made Norene's disappearance seem understandable. 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:32.600 Apparently there was some talk of divorce, but I didn't 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.840 know exactly what the circumstances were. 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:41.040 In fact, Noreen had filed for divorce less than two 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:45.400 months before, and it was contentious. There were fancy cars 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.440 to fight over, a lot of money in the bank, 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:52.800 child sport alimony, joined credit cards. Maybe Dave's original hunch 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.679 had been right. In the midst of a rough separation, 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:00.120 with both parties sleeping under the same roof, Noreen just 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:01.040 needed a few. 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:01.880 Days to herself. 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:11.120 She'd probably return home soon. Still, Dave had doubts. Why 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.160 was her husband being so evasive and why did her 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:19.160 son insist that something was wrong. Dave decided it was 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.560 time to get more details from his prime source, the 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:27.360 one inside the Boyle household. He phoned the private school 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:31.520 that Klier attended and requested that the principal arrange a meeting. 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.360 This is just what Kyler had been hoping for. I 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:39.440 knew it was my chance right there to just get 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:41.760 it all out right. I don't know if I'm ever 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:53.800 going to get this opportunity again. On January eighth, nineteen ninety, 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.840 Klier Landry Boyle sat down with Lieutenant Dave Messmore in 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:02.240 an elementary school classroom, the kind with those small chairs. 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:06.040 Dave is six feet tall, but he figured it'd be 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:08.280 good to be on the same level as Collier. 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:10.720 It'd make him comfortable. 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:15.240 You know. I had a lengthy conversation. He described to 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:19.559 me what he heard that night that she went missing. 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.840 A little more than a week earlier, December thirtieth, Collier 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.800 and his mother were sitting at a table having chili 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:29.679 for dinner. 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.480 And we saw my father's truck coming down the driveway 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.040 with my grandmother inside. Then my grandmother came in and 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:38.319 my father stayed for a second. 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:39.839 He then left. 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.719 Around eight o'clock eight thirty. My mom was like a 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.959 time for bad. I gave my grandmother a hugging a kiss, 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:49.240 the good night, and I gave my mom a hugging 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:49.959 a kiss good night. 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.560 Then Collyer headed upstairs to his bedroom. 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.400 He may have struck people as a miniature adult, but 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.240 his bedroom was definitely that of a child. 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.559 I had little collectible Garfield stuffed plush toys on the dresser, 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:07.440 and then I had my Batman clock on the wall 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:08.920 because I loved the movie Batman. 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:10.080 I wanted to be Batman. 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.559 Then next to me on the wall there's a painting 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:19.000 of a small little sailboat with a little boy inside, 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:21.120 and it says call you that my mom had a 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:22.840 muralist paint on the wall. 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.120 So safe in his bedroom with his Batman clock and 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:35.120 his Garfield dolls, Colier fell asleep and then in the 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:39.800 middle of the night something woke them. 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:44.440 I'm pretty sure I heard a scream and. 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.840 I was kind of frozen in my bed for a second. 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:54.680 I didn't get up, and then I heard this loud 0:14:55.160 --> 0:15:03.440 thud boom, and then I heard this really low muttering, 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:11.800 and I can see my little sailboat on the wall. 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.560 And then I looked at the dresser with the little Garfields 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.160 and I see the Batman clock up on the wall 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:23.640 and it's like three seventeen three eighteen am, and then 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.000 another thirty sixty seconds later, I hear another one of 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:33.960 those loud thuds, and I remember thinking something terrible is happening, 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:42.360 and then started hearing these footsteps creak slowly down the hall. 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:55.120 And I always slept with my door open, so I'm 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.480 curled up, but i can see out of my peripheral 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:04.720 vision the edge of the door into the hallway, and 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:08.800 I'm counting the footsteps, and all i want to do 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:14.240 is look up, but I'm just staying still. And then 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.880 the footsteps stop and I can see two feet in 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:21.960 the doorway. I can see them out of my peripheral vision, 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:27.440 and I can see my sailboat mural on the wall, 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:32.520 and then I can see the Batman clock and everything 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:42.760 inside my body was screaming, don't look up. As I 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:49.200 was laying there, the feet still in the doorway, I 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:51.640 was telling myself, if I can just make it through 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:58.440 this moment, that I'm gonna be okay. 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:02.720 And as I'm thinking of all that, the feed leave. 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:12.600 It's the night of Norman Boyle's disappearance, and Collier is 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:17.760 in bed. He's heard strange noises, strange voices, strange footsteps, 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.880 but when everything goes quiet, he manages to fall back 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:26.320 to sleep. The next morning, when he wakes up, the 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.200 first thing he does is run to his mother's bedroom. 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.880 She isn't there. She always makes her bed first thing 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:37.720 in the morning, but this time the sheets are a mess. 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:43.560 And I go downstairs and my father is sitting on 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:48.600 the couch in the living room, watching television with a 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:50.680 towel wrapped around his ways, like he had just got 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:56.879 done taking a shower. I said to him, where is 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:02.080 my mother? And he's still was watching television. He didn't 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:06.880 answer me, and I said where is my mother? And 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:14.400 he looked up at me so matter of factly, Well, 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:20.240 mommy took a little vacation call here, And I said, well, 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:26.760 what happened? Well, your mother came down. She was hollering 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.960 at me, and she got so angry at me. She 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.959 threw her credit cards at me. And then he said, 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.800 I saw these headlights come through. I reached for my glasses. 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.879 Your mother left. She starts walking away. She walks through 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:47.040 the kitchen, leaves out the back door, and she goes 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:50.439 down the driveway and I rushed to go to the window, 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:52.040 and I see her get into that car, and the 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.879 car drives away. He goes, Okay, so we're not going 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.000 to call the police. We're gonna let her come back. 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:05.760 We're not going to call the FBI. He leaves, and 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.800 at that point, my grandmother has gotten up. My grandmother 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:15.720 says to me, Okay, well you heard what your father said. 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:21.080 Kanya did hear what his father said. But he'd actually 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.480 been preparing for a moment just like this. He knew 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.520 his parents were going through a divorce. It was screaming 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:32.360 in the house, tempers flaring, and Kanye, like his hero Batman, 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:34.760 was always ready for action. 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.199 One of the things that I did is I saved 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:42.240 my mother's friend's phone numbers. I wrote them all on 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:43.920 a piece of paper and I stuck them in this 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.800 little stuffed garfield that I had, this little Santa Claus 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:49.880 garfield I stuck inside the hat. And my mother had 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.719 just got a cordless phone, so I grabbed the phone. 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:57.560 I run upstairs, I grabbed the list. I locked myself 0:19:57.600 --> 0:19:59.720 in my mother's bathroom and I just start calling everybody 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:04.600 on the life US and I start telling them what happened. 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.920 And I said, my father said it not to call 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:11.320 the police, but I'm telling you call the police. 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:15.600 Nordine's friends did call the police, and that's how word 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.719 of her disappearance made its way to the Mansfield Police 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:28.399 Department and to Dave Mesmore's desk, and now sitting in 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:30.800 the classroom, there was one more saying. 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:31.840 Kylier wanted to. 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:36.119 Make sure Dave understood he wanted their meeting kept confidential. 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.080 Dave told me when I was speaking to him he 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:43.480 would keep everything that we said secret because I didn't 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.080 want to get in trouble and I wanted to find 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:46.440 my mother. 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:51.720 For his part, as Dave interviewed Kyllier that day, he 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:55.040 thought this kid just might be onto something. 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.480 He was beside himself. He didn't cry, but it was 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:03.800 emotional only uh distraught, and he convinced me that there 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:08.159 was something wrong. I had never encountered a child that 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:12.199 young to be so well spoken. It was not like 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:14.840 a little eleven or twelve year old you'd normally talk to. 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:19.040 He was just very astute. At that point, I couldn't 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.320 really pass it off to another detective. 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.879 The interview ended. Kyie went back to class, then home. 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:29.960 He knew Dave would be stopping by that night. 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:31.800 And he was on edge. 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:37.159 My grandmother was making dinner. My father comes home, and 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:40.680 then Dave comes to the door again. I was anxious, 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:44.000 right because I've defied my father, and I'm, you know, 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.040 trying to be an earshot at the door, trying to 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.320 see what's going on, and also trying to see, Okay, 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.840 is he going to say anything? He doesn't do is 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:54.800 to say, oh, I've talked to the kid, or he 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:57.800 doesn't ay, you know what I mean? So I knew 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:00.720 that I could trust him. Then I got partner. Now 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:02.960 I got somebody who's going to help me find out 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:05.680 what happened to my mother, Me and Dave. 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:10.399 And so Kylier and Dave are now a dynamic duo, 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:15.280 the precocious preteen and the mild mannered, middle aged detective. 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.320 It's like something out of a comic book. 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:23.640 Did you think of Batman? I did think of Batman? 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:29.760 What did you think? I had to find out what happened. 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:33.639 But I also was dreading the fact that Batman was 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:38.040 an orphan who lost both his parents. You want to 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:43.280 be the dark knight, the detective, but at the same 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:45.760 time you do want to lose your family. 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:49.120 Right. 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:53.399 Kylier, of course, wasn't quite Batman, more of a Robin, 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.760 you know, the boy Wonder, the junior partner, and in 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:01.160 that role, he was determined to help Dave track down 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:01.680 his mother. 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:08.600 That really galvanizes me into doing this like amateur sleuth, 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:12.440 detective work or whatever, you know, gonna I'm gonna find, 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:15.520 start gathering clues. I'm going to look for anything that 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:17.280 I could find that was out of the ordinary. 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:21.760 And Lieutenant Dave Messmore was determined to hold up his end. 0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:26.480 He was in despair. I just wanted to get it 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:28.359 done and I want to be able to tell Collyer 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:29.360 that we found his mother. 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:32.720 So now Dave's all in. 0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:39.040 Jack Boyle won't talk to him. That makes Dave pretty suspicious, 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:43.560 and so he decides his next step take a closer 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:44.960 look at the good doctor. 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:48.520 The more you talk to other people that are acquainted 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:51.399 with him, that you find out an awful lot about 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:55.760 that person. And in his case, he had a completely 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:59.639 different personality. You know, he was always laughing and choking 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:00.959 around with people. 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:17.040 But that wasn't him, that was a facade. 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:21.320 Finding Mom's Killer is a production of Orbit Media creator 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:22.760 and host Steve Fishman. 0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:23.399 That's Me. 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:27.840 Our senior producer is Drew Nellis our producer and production 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:33.320 coordinator Austin Smith. Our story editor Emil Klein, fact check 0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:38.000 by Ryan Alderman, mixing and sound design by Scott Somerville. 0:24:38.480 --> 0:24:43.159 Our lawyers are at Davis Reich Tremaine from Sony Music Entertainment. 0:24:43.280 --> 0:24:48.760 Our executive producer is Jonathan Hirsch. Special thanks to Emily Rassik, 0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:55.720 Steve Ackerman, Katherine Saint Louis, Sammy Allison Fisher, stevens Ria, Julian, Dan, 0:24:55.840 --> 0:25:00.960 Bobkoff at WME. We'd like to thank Evan Krassek, Marissa Hurwitz, 0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:04.840 and Ben Davis. We want to also thank Carl Hunnell 0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:07.399 at The Richland Source for the generous use of his 0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:11.320 podcast studio and a really warm thank you to Call 0:25:11.359 --> 0:25:15.440 Your Landry for sharing his story and for his production assistance. 0:25:29.840 --> 0:25:33.159 Hope you enjoyed this episode of Finding Mom's Killer. You 0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:36.359 can hear the entire series on Apple or wherever you 0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:37.600 get your podcasts.