WEBVTT - Rollback Is (Reportedly) Coming—Let's Discuss 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:06.960 And when I find my ball in a bright egg 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:07.920 Friday egg. 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:11.600 The dreaded Frida egg, Frida Egg, fridagg. 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.239 Bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:37.320 the hum. Welcome back to another edition of the Friday 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.920 Golf Podcast. I'm your host, Andy Johnson. There was a 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:45.239 huge news over the weekend and golf obviously came from 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:49.280 a Golf Digest report that broke that the USCA and 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.720 RNA are going to be instituting a universal ball rollback 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.760 for everyone. So with that in mind, I decided to 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:01.320 chat with our own Garrett Morrison, a co host of 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:05.080 this podcast, and really dive in to everything about the 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.600 roll back. Obviously, we have not heard from the USCA 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:12.640 yet on this. The report clearly came from some equipment 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:16.160 companies that have been notified. So when we hear from 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.280 the USCA I and get all the details, I would 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:22.160 guess that we will have another episode. But we got 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:26.320 in great detail on everything here. It was a crazy 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:31.120 weekend with people like Tiger Woods and Rory McElroy sounding 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.880 off on their opinions, as well as some others such 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:37.960 as you know, Keegan Bradley calling the U the rollback 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:43.759 monstrous and Ricky Fowler on the on the other side 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:45.760 of the rollback saying it was such a bad decision. 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.760 So Garrett and I dive into it, why this happened, 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.080 and what we expect from it. So, without further ado, 0:01:53.280 --> 0:02:01.160 here's our discussion on the ball roll back. Garrett, we're back. 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.840 I guess this was really unplanned. I didn't think this 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:06.360 was going to be Tuesday's episode, But of course, I 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:10.680 think the big news over the weekend caught everybody off guard, 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:15.880 probably the USGA and RNA, included the Golf Digest. Mike 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:20.560 Stakura basically broke the news that there was a there's 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.720 an impending rollback to everybody in the game of golf. 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.320 They are going to cut distances by about five percent, 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.960 starting for the professionals in twenty twenty eight and everybody 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.000 in twenty thirty. So we are talking about news that 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:39.320 is five years out at the earliest, I guess four four, right, yeah, 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:43.959 four years out at the soonest, and for everybody six 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:49.080 years out. So that was the big news and instant reaction. 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:56.080 Instant reaction is just I am surprised, even shocked. You know, 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.919 I kind of there were indications that something like this 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:04.000 was coming, but I'm just astonished that we've gotten to 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:06.760 this place. If you had asked me three years ago 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.040 whether I thought it was even possible that there would 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:14.440 ever be a universal rollback on the table that the 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.640 USGA and RNA might get behind, I would have said, 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.480 no way, it's not going to happen. But we have 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:23.880 gotten to this point, and we'll talk about how how 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:24.600 we've gotten here. 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.760 Yeah, I think there's pros and cons of the universal rollback, 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:33.840 I think, you know, and we'll get into that, but 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.320 but overall, I think, you know, there's a lot of 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:41.560 different ways, and you know, I for one, think that 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:46.680 this is great news for the entire golf ecosystem that 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.760 this is you know, this is a move that sets 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.640 up a couple things at the at the large scale, 0:03:53.680 --> 0:04:00.520 like there needed to be a understanding that regulation, large 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:05.880 scale regulation was okay, and there needed to be somebody 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.600 that was looking at the game at a you know, 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:12.720 a large scale. And what what I mean by that 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.760 is not about like, is this new product that we're 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.400 going to make going to make us millions of dollars 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:22.080 or not. More so, the game and how it's set 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:26.200 up for the future, given the constraints on the environment, 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:32.640 the changing like society's changing tastes, and just you know, 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:36.599 making sure that golf courses aren't the ones that are 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.400 taking on the brunt of the costs of you know, 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:45.040 increased distances across the game. So I think, like overall 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.520 this is a really great thing for golf. 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.359 I agree with you. I want to talk a little 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.679 bit about the way that this has come about, because, 0:04:56.680 --> 0:05:00.400 as I said, it's a little bit surprising that we've 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:05.240 gotten to the point of universal rollback. Initially, as many 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:10.600 of our listeners will remember, the USGA and RNA proposed 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:14.680 a model local rule for the golf ball, basically a 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.440 rolled back golf ball that would be available to be 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:24.119 used in competitive environments where a model local rule would 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:29.560 be instituted. That was the first proposal. Essentially, it would 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:35.720 result in bifurcation of the game. Amateurs, everyday recreational players 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:38.880 would be playing one golf ball, the golf ball that 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:44.640 we're currently playing, tested against the current standards. We'd be 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:49.800 playing that ball, and then elite amateurs and professional golfers 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:55.400 if their leagues and tours so chose, would play the 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.479 model local rule ball, and so their distance would be 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:04.480 limited rain dawn through bifurcation essentially, and by the way, 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.719 the way that golf balls are tested is important here too. 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.680 I won't go too deep into it, but basically how 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:16.239 it's done is a robot is set up to swing 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:22.120 at a certain very high elite male speed, and any 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:27.240 golf balls that comply with USGA and RNA rules need 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.280 to go a certain distance or can't go over a 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:33.839 certain distance. And essentially what the new ball would be 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:38.880 would be a ball that the robot would swing a 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:44.000 bit faster at but would still have to go the 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.000 same distance as before. So essentially it would be a 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:51.800 somewhat more reduced flight ball, and the overall reduction in 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.080 yardage would be something like five percent. So for elite 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:59.640 players that means something like fifteen yards. For amateur players 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.440 it would means something closer to ten to twelve yards. 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.560 I'm talking about men here. 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:10.480 I think important to talk about here just where we've 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:17.600 gotten with technology. Players with higher swing speeds yield greater 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:22.200 rewards on the current technology, and what that means is 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.120 that somebody that swings one hundred and ten miles an 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:28.800 hour at a golf ball gets a lot more out 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.160 of a pro V one let's just use them, or 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.320 a TP five X or whatever it may be, than 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.800 somebody that swings ninety five miles an hour. There's like 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:43.280 a level of speed that yields increase, you know, the 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:48.960 compression yields increased gains in technology, and then as you 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:54.480 as the swing speed lowers, it diminishes. So with all 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:59.440 this in mind, I think, and nobody has seen this 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.120 play out, you know, I would love to get my 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.240 hands on an example of one of these golf balls, 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.200 but nobody's seen this play out. Is like, it's very 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:14.800 feasible that it could hurt elite players by fifteen yards 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:20.200 and a normal player by five because the reduced swing speeds. 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:24.480 You just aren't generating the gains with this golf ball 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:28.920 technology that someone at the elite level is. It could 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:33.120 be born out that it's the exact same percentage. I 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:36.760 would tend to guess, you know, this is I don't 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:40.240 have any facts around this. This is just my understanding 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:44.079 of current golf balls. I would tend to guess that 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:50.120 the everyday you know, ten handicap is going to see 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:54.000 less of a reduction from percentage basis than a tour pro. 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:58.079 That is what I suspect too, But we really don't 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:02.520 know until we see examples of this golf ball and 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:07.280 have average players test them side by side. But again, 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.400 my suspicion is the same as yours. I believe that 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:14.120 players like Roy McElroy compress the modern golf ball to 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.840 a degree that players like me are not capable of, 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:23.040 and therefore Roy McElroy leverages what's inside the golf ball, 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:26.679 the technology in there, to a much greater degree than 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:29.600 I do. But in any case, this has been the 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:33.959 model local rule ball on the table from the beginning. Now, 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:39.120 there was a comment period and industry stakeholders were asked 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:42.520 to give their opinion on the prospect of a model 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:47.520 local rule and effective bifurcation of the game. And their 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:51.640 response was hell, no, we do not want this. 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.800 We can't bifurcate the game. If we bifurcate the game, 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.360 we lose the essence of the game. You know, this 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.920 is what they were saying. The the magic of golf 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.560 is that we all play the same equipment. That was 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:08.680 the you know, they kicked and screamed about bifurcation because 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.120 of this, when you know, I think a lot of 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.520 people were like, this makes sense. Bifurcation makes sense, right, 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.320 like wood bats and aluminum bats in baseball. You know. 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:22.560 But everybody who is you know now currently opposed a 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.600 rollback was also seemingly opposed by furcation. 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.960 Yep. Well, I think there are a number of people 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.800 even who are saying, why don't we buyfurcate who were 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:40.280 previously saying bifurcation is no good. I don't think that 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.560 there's been been a whole lot of consistency in the 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:46.880 positions that people have taken. But in any case, essentially, 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:51.440 the message that the governing body's got is that the 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:55.360 industry doesn't want bifurcation. And the sense that we have 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.160 gotten over the past few days we in the fried 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:07.000 Egg talking to people is that some manufacturers, especially ball manufacturers, 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:12.199 particularly the leading ones in the industry, were more afraid 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:17.000 of the threat to their market share that bifurcation would 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:23.240 pose than the similar threat from universal rollback. In other words, 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:30.040 certain manufacturers actually prefer universal rollback to this bifurcation model. 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.640 And in a sense that's understandable because if the game 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:37.040 were bifurcated, then a lot of equipment companies would then 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:41.559 have to devote their RNA spend and their production capacity 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:43.360 to two different product lines. 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:49.679 Also, for years, ball count on the PGA Tour has 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:54.079 been such a important statistic, you know, most played. 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.200 Ball advertising AGA Tour appeal. 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.480 Yeah, and all of a sudden, if that ball is different, 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:05.400 then that marketing spend the years of maintaining the number 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:09.679 one ball on the PGA Tour or a high percentage 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.920 of PGA Tour players using a ball would go out 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:16.280 the window, right, Because then it's like, Okay, you know, 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.439 we don't have this marketing weapon that we've had forever, 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.840 Like play the ball that you know Justin Thomas plays, 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.360 play the ball that Jordan Speeth plays, Play the ball 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:31.080 that Rory McElroy plays, Like that doesn't exist if you 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.240 know they're playing different ball because you know amateurs. 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:34.800 You know. 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.160 The funny thing is I think like bifurcation would have 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.320 led to this either way, right, Like I think it 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:42.040 would have gotten by it. 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.480 It would have trickled down. We talked about this when 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.360 when that news came out. Yeah, it was likely that 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.720 you know, the elite game is it leads when it 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:55.120 comes to equipment, and I think that the influence would 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.880 have been significant on all parts of the game. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:02.480 So anyways, this uh, this is you know, you know, 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:04.800 we could get to the timeline and everything, but it 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.480 feels like where bifurcation would have gotten us to in 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:09.320 twenty thirty. 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:14.160 Either way, Yeah, that's very possible. You know. I think 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.959 that the governing bodies always wanted to have a broad 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.000 influence on the game as a whole. I don't think 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:25.600 their intention, ever, was just to affect the professional game, 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:32.079 because their research and their concern applies to the whole game, 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.959 not just to the elite game. And so that's been 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.520 true from the beginning. From the beginning, I believe the 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:43.600 governing bodies have wanted to affect the entire game, as 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.760 opposed to just one segment of it. But in any case, 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:52.000 the pretense has come down, and now the governing bodies 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:57.280 are reportedly going to say universal rollback is what we 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:01.520 are going to do. This information came out late Friday 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:06.920 night after markets have closed, right uh, a report from 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:12.240 Golf Digest comes out from an equipment journalist from Mike Stakhura. 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.360 Sorry if I'm pronouncing your name wrong. Mike. It could 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.680 be Stakura or Statura in any case, See, I should 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:20.240 know how to pronounce his name because he is a 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:24.720 very prominent journalist, well connected. He gets these scoops, and 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.760 he did a good job of getting this scoop. Now, 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.560 I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that his sources 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.800 were not from the USGA and RNA. I think it 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:37.880 is reasonable to assume that his sources were from the 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:38.880 equipment industry. 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.360 And hey, before, you want to talk about something else 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.520 that happens late on Friday night, after you know, after 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.680 the market is closed, after work's done. What's that our 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.280 partner faccor our ship? 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:56.440 Oh nice transition into the ad. 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.400 Oh my gosh, A people hanging and we talk about 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:05.240 Friday nights some more so. Anyways, Fat Cork's been a 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:09.600 partner of ours for the year, and I honestly I 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:14.640 didn't really I knew champagne. I drank champagne before Fat Cork. 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.560 Did you drink champagne or did you drink sparkling wine. 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:22.720 A little sparkling wine, prosecco, different things? Yea, sometimes champagne. 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:27.600 My wife was a big champagne fan. Yep, I was 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:29.880 like Okay, I could take it or leave it. At 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:34.280 this point, I've become very into champagne because of Fat Cork. 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.560 What Fat Cork does is they source their champagne from 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.520 the independent growers in France, just the same reasons that 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:45.440 we like our golf courses built by great golf architects 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.440 that are hand crafting this. This is why you should 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.600 get champagne from the growers. What they're doing. The way 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:55.120 the champagne industry works in general is that growers sell 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.760 eighty percent of their grapes, and a lot of the 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:03.400 big box champagne company take those grapes and basically mash 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.480 them all together, make them the same. 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.840 They lose the sense of place, They lose the terroir. 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.840 So the stuff that you really love about the uniqueness 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:17.640 of flavors, the sense of places you just said in grapes. 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.280 What fact Cork does is it delivers this super unique, 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:25.880 delicious wine that you can get nowhere else to your doorstep. 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.600 So they have an awesome champagne club. I you know, 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.560 we've basically been been members. I'm not gonna lie. 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Thank you to our friend 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:05.359 at fatcork dot com. Now back to the Golf Digest article. 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.920 We were talking about how the news of the universal 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.679 rollback broke, and it wasn't because the governing bodies wanted 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.879 it to break last Friday night. They're going reportedly going. 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:20.320 To the bodies were probably into a bottle of fat 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:21.440 cork when it broke. 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:25.600 They very well, I think most of us were were 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.679 to some degree into a bottle of something at that 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:33.760 point in the night. And in any case, this article 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.000 comes out and h it is from an equipment reporter, 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:42.919 citing industry sources, likely equipment industry sources, and so you know, 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.040 you can see that there would be a motive from 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.119 equipment companies to get out ahead of the story to 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:53.040 make it a thing over the weekend, before the USGA 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.320 and RNA had a chance to put their message out there. 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.120 And so I'm sure that there must to be some 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:06.119 frustration among people at the governing bodies that this became 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:08.760 a thing over the weekend, but also maybe they should 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:13.080 have predicted that this would happen. In any case, that's 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.119 why we're talking about it now as opposed to after 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:22.480 the imminent announcement of this move to universal rollback. So 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:26.959 that is essentially where we are. It's been debated on 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:30.800 the internet all weekend. We've seen a lot of different 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:34.600 arguments and points being made. I'm sure there are other 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:39.399 podcasts coming out, other articles and newsletters being written, but 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.280 it's blowing up right now, and that's why we're talking 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:42.639 about it. 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:47.920 Yeah, I obviously I think like one of the one 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:49.960 of the things that you could say that the USGA 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.240 has not handled well is the messaging. 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:58.200 Nope, totally agree, because the thing is, I want to 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:02.159 be clear, their position is strong here, I think. Now 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.800 that's just my subjective opinion. Another thing that is more 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:11.600 objective is that their research, their preparation has been exemplary. 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:16.600 The Distance Insights project is an extraordinary piece of research. 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:21.879 But the problem is that nobody's read it. Some people, 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.600 a lot of people don't even know about it, and 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.440 in my opinion, a lot of these spokespeople, a lot 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.680 of the leaders for the governing bodies have not done 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.760 a good job of communicating the outcomes of that research 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:41.879 in an effective, concise, clear way, and that's a problem. 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:44.719 On top of that, you know what's out there and 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:48.040 what people are reacting to is a message that is 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:54.520 written by someone who regularly writes for about equipment releases 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:58.200 and equipment things like it is someone who is getting 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:01.560 all their information from one you know, seemingly getting all 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:03.760 their information. I just. 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:08.560 Journalists, no USGA people. I don't think this is where 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:09.920 this report was source from. 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.400 Well, when the USGA gives people information that they embargo 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:17.200 it and the release comes like it's like you cannot release. 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:20.639 They want to announce it first. They don't like the leaksh. 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:23.320 So so anyways, I think this was done completely out 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:25.840 of it and and what what's happened is that the 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.120 you know people have run with the information that Mike 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:33.480 in this case is presented and it's a great article. 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:37.200 But like the USGA, what I'm kind of struggling with 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.760 here is is this happened on Friday night and we're 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:46.119 recording now Monday afternoon, East Coast time. There's nothing the 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:51.679 USCA announced Curtis Cup, a Curtis Cup participation like that 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:53.800 was the press release I got for the USDA this 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:56.600 morning was about the Curtis Cup. And it's you know, 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:00.919 you've known that you're gonna do this for let's just say, 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:05.639 three months, two months at least you've communicated something to 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:09.560 the equipment manufacturers, which is why this report got released. 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:13.119 So you've had communication. How is there not like just 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:16.520 like a boiler plate statement, even even to the extent 0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:19.920 of like, hey, you know, we know this is out there, 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:24.200 we're doing this like three bullets. We'll have more information 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.600 for you at this date, right, Like by by hanging 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:33.199 there in you know, it's allowing people to race around 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:36.280 to conclusions, like you know, like that statement they could 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.000 have released had could have had links to their their 0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:43.160 insights report, right, it could have had like here's how 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:46.479 we got here, all these things. It's just it's just 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:51.439 kind of crazy. Where again, the people reacting to this, 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:54.080 The people that are talking about this are golf media. 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:58.600 Most of golf media and I are propped up by 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:04.120 equipment manufacturers. Bigest spend and their advertising portfolio is equipment 0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:07.960 manufacturers and PGA tour pros. Those are the people that 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:12.119 are reacting to this, and they're all sponsored by the 0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:18.240 equipment manufacturers. This was an opportunity to somewhat put put 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:22.400 out like a strong message and as of right now, 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:24.520 as of this recording, there's been nothing. 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:28.280 There are so many things that you could do to 0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:33.040 communicate the findings of their research or to convey a 0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:37.320 sense of what a rolled back world would look like, 0:24:38.359 --> 0:24:41.160 and very few of them have been done so far, 0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:48.400 and it feels like those of us who have supported 0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:51.679 rollback for a long time are kind of carrying the 0:24:51.720 --> 0:24:55.840 load here. And that feels a bit frustrating, because our 0:24:55.960 --> 0:24:59.640 job really is to report on this stuff, to talk 0:24:59.680 --> 0:25:02.680 about it in as honest a way as we can. 0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:10.440 We are not interested in doing messaging for the governing bodies. 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:15.439 But it feels like that responsibility has fallen to people 0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:19.320 who do support rollback, who do believe in shrinking the 0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:21.760 scale of the game a bit for the sake of 0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:26.040 golf courses, And so it's a you know, it's an 0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:30.160 annoying position to be in. But with that said, maybe 0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:33.639 we could get to a few of the debates that 0:25:33.680 --> 0:25:36.840 have been happening about rollback, a few of the common 0:25:36.960 --> 0:25:40.560 arguments against it, and what we might say in response 0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:41.760 to those Do you want to do you want to 0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:42.120 get there? 0:25:42.200 --> 0:25:44.760 Yeah that sounds good. Okay, Well what do you think 0:25:44.800 --> 0:25:46.160 about growing grass higher? 0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:56.840 Just grow the grass, that's all you need to do. Okay. Yeah, 0:25:56.880 --> 0:25:59.880 this has been like a catchphrase from my golf Spy, 0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:06.439 which is an independent equipment media company, and I go 0:26:06.480 --> 0:26:08.719 to their website a lot. I look at the tests 0:26:08.720 --> 0:26:11.640 that they do for drivers and hybrids and stuff. I'm 0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:13.840 an equipment nerd. I like seeing this kind of stuff, 0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:15.119 so I think they do a good job with that. 0:26:15.280 --> 0:26:20.480