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Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When

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Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a bright egg

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Speaker 1: Friday egg.

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Speaker 2: The dreaded Frida egg, Frida Egg, fridagg.

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Speaker 1: Bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of

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Speaker 1: the hum. Welcome back to another edition of the Friday

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Speaker 1: Golf Podcast. I'm your host, Andy Johnson. There was a

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Speaker 1: huge news over the weekend and golf obviously came from

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Speaker 1: a Golf Digest report that broke that the USCA and

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Speaker 1: RNA are going to be instituting a universal ball rollback

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Speaker 1: for everyone. So with that in mind, I decided to

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Speaker 1: chat with our own Garrett Morrison, a co host of

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Speaker 1: this podcast, and really dive in to everything about the

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Speaker 1: roll back. Obviously, we have not heard from the USCA

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Speaker 1: yet on this. The report clearly came from some equipment

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Speaker 1: companies that have been notified. So when we hear from

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Speaker 1: the USCA I and get all the details, I would

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Speaker 1: guess that we will have another episode. But we got

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Speaker 1: in great detail on everything here. It was a crazy

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Speaker 1: weekend with people like Tiger Woods and Rory McElroy sounding

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Speaker 1: off on their opinions, as well as some others such

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Speaker 1: as you know, Keegan Bradley calling the U the rollback

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Speaker 1: monstrous and Ricky Fowler on the on the other side

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Speaker 1: of the rollback saying it was such a bad decision.

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Speaker 1: So Garrett and I dive into it, why this happened,

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Speaker 1: and what we expect from it. So, without further ado,

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Speaker 1: here's our discussion on the ball roll back. Garrett, we're back.

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Speaker 1: I guess this was really unplanned. I didn't think this

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Speaker 1: was going to be Tuesday's episode, But of course, I

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Speaker 1: think the big news over the weekend caught everybody off guard,

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Speaker 1: probably the USGA and RNA, included the Golf Digest. Mike

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Speaker 1: Stakura basically broke the news that there was a there's

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Speaker 1: an impending rollback to everybody in the game of golf.

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Speaker 1: They are going to cut distances by about five percent,

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Speaker 1: starting for the professionals in twenty twenty eight and everybody

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Speaker 1: in twenty thirty. So we are talking about news that

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Speaker 1: is five years out at the earliest, I guess four four, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: four years out at the soonest, and for everybody six

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Speaker 1: years out. So that was the big news and instant reaction.

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Speaker 2: Instant reaction is just I am surprised, even shocked. You know,

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Speaker 2: I kind of there were indications that something like this

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Speaker 2: was coming, but I'm just astonished that we've gotten to

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Speaker 2: this place. If you had asked me three years ago

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Speaker 2: whether I thought it was even possible that there would

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Speaker 2: ever be a universal rollback on the table that the

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Speaker 2: USGA and RNA might get behind, I would have said,

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Speaker 2: no way, it's not going to happen. But we have

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Speaker 2: gotten to this point, and we'll talk about how how

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Speaker 2: we've gotten here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's pros and cons of the universal rollback,

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, and we'll get into that, but

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Speaker 1: but overall, I think, you know, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: different ways, and you know, I for one, think that

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Speaker 1: this is great news for the entire golf ecosystem that

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Speaker 1: this is you know, this is a move that sets

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Speaker 1: up a couple things at the at the large scale,

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Speaker 1: like there needed to be a understanding that regulation, large

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Speaker 1: scale regulation was okay, and there needed to be somebody

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Speaker 1: that was looking at the game at a you know,

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Speaker 1: a large scale. And what what I mean by that

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Speaker 1: is not about like, is this new product that we're

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Speaker 1: going to make going to make us millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: or not. More so, the game and how it's set

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Speaker 1: up for the future, given the constraints on the environment,

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Speaker 1: the changing like society's changing tastes, and just you know,

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Speaker 1: making sure that golf courses aren't the ones that are

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Speaker 1: taking on the brunt of the costs of you know,

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Speaker 1: increased distances across the game. So I think, like overall

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Speaker 1: this is a really great thing for golf.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you. I want to talk a little

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Speaker 2: bit about the way that this has come about, because,

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Speaker 2: as I said, it's a little bit surprising that we've

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Speaker 2: gotten to the point of universal rollback. Initially, as many

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Speaker 2: of our listeners will remember, the USGA and RNA proposed

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Speaker 2: a model local rule for the golf ball, basically a

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Speaker 2: rolled back golf ball that would be available to be

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Speaker 2: used in competitive environments where a model local rule would

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Speaker 2: be instituted. That was the first proposal. Essentially, it would

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Speaker 2: result in bifurcation of the game. Amateurs, everyday recreational players

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Speaker 2: would be playing one golf ball, the golf ball that

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Speaker 2: we're currently playing, tested against the current standards. We'd be

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Speaker 2: playing that ball, and then elite amateurs and professional golfers

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Speaker 2: if their leagues and tours so chose, would play the

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Speaker 2: model local rule ball, and so their distance would be

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Speaker 2: limited rain dawn through bifurcation essentially, and by the way,

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Speaker 2: the way that golf balls are tested is important here too.

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Speaker 2: I won't go too deep into it, but basically how

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Speaker 2: it's done is a robot is set up to swing

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Speaker 2: at a certain very high elite male speed, and any

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Speaker 2: golf balls that comply with USGA and RNA rules need

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Speaker 2: to go a certain distance or can't go over a

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Speaker 2: certain distance. And essentially what the new ball would be

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Speaker 2: would be a ball that the robot would swing a

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Speaker 2: bit faster at but would still have to go the

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Speaker 2: same distance as before. So essentially it would be a

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Speaker 2: somewhat more reduced flight ball, and the overall reduction in

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Speaker 2: yardage would be something like five percent. So for elite

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Speaker 2: players that means something like fifteen yards. For amateur players

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Speaker 2: it would means something closer to ten to twelve yards.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about men here.

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Speaker 1: I think important to talk about here just where we've

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Speaker 1: gotten with technology. Players with higher swing speeds yield greater

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Speaker 1: rewards on the current technology, and what that means is

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Speaker 1: that somebody that swings one hundred and ten miles an

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Speaker 1: hour at a golf ball gets a lot more out

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Speaker 1: of a pro V one let's just use them, or

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Speaker 1: a TP five X or whatever it may be, than

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Speaker 1: somebody that swings ninety five miles an hour. There's like

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Speaker 1: a level of speed that yields increase, you know, the

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Speaker 1: compression yields increased gains in technology, and then as you

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Speaker 1: as the swing speed lowers, it diminishes. So with all

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Speaker 1: this in mind, I think, and nobody has seen this

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Speaker 1: play out, you know, I would love to get my

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Speaker 1: hands on an example of one of these golf balls,

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Speaker 1: but nobody's seen this play out. Is like, it's very

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Speaker 1: feasible that it could hurt elite players by fifteen yards

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Speaker 1: and a normal player by five because the reduced swing speeds.

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Speaker 1: You just aren't generating the gains with this golf ball

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Speaker 1: technology that someone at the elite level is. It could

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Speaker 1: be born out that it's the exact same percentage. I

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Speaker 1: would tend to guess, you know, this is I don't

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Speaker 1: have any facts around this. This is just my understanding

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Speaker 1: of current golf balls. I would tend to guess that

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Speaker 1: the everyday you know, ten handicap is going to see

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Speaker 1: less of a reduction from percentage basis than a tour pro.

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Speaker 2: That is what I suspect too, But we really don't

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Speaker 2: know until we see examples of this golf ball and

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Speaker 2: have average players test them side by side. But again,

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Speaker 2: my suspicion is the same as yours. I believe that

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Speaker 2: players like Roy McElroy compress the modern golf ball to

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Speaker 2: a degree that players like me are not capable of,

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Speaker 2: and therefore Roy McElroy leverages what's inside the golf ball,

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Speaker 2: the technology in there, to a much greater degree than

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Speaker 2: I do. But in any case, this has been the

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Speaker 2: model local rule ball on the table from the beginning. Now,

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Speaker 2: there was a comment period and industry stakeholders were asked

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Speaker 2: to give their opinion on the prospect of a model

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Speaker 2: local rule and effective bifurcation of the game. And their

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Speaker 2: response was hell, no, we do not want this.

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Speaker 1: We can't bifurcate the game. If we bifurcate the game,

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Speaker 1: we lose the essence of the game. You know, this

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Speaker 1: is what they were saying. The the magic of golf

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Speaker 1: is that we all play the same equipment. That was

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Speaker 1: the you know, they kicked and screamed about bifurcation because

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Speaker 1: of this, when you know, I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: people were like, this makes sense. Bifurcation makes sense, right,

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Speaker 1: like wood bats and aluminum bats in baseball. You know.

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Speaker 1: But everybody who is you know now currently opposed a

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Speaker 1: rollback was also seemingly opposed by furcation.

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Speaker 2: Yep. Well, I think there are a number of people

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Speaker 2: even who are saying, why don't we buyfurcate who were

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Speaker 2: previously saying bifurcation is no good. I don't think that

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Speaker 2: there's been been a whole lot of consistency in the

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Speaker 2: positions that people have taken. But in any case, essentially,

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Speaker 2: the message that the governing body's got is that the

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Speaker 2: industry doesn't want bifurcation. And the sense that we have

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Speaker 2: gotten over the past few days we in the fried

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Speaker 2: Egg talking to people is that some manufacturers, especially ball manufacturers,

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Speaker 2: particularly the leading ones in the industry, were more afraid

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Speaker 2: of the threat to their market share that bifurcation would

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Speaker 2: pose than the similar threat from universal rollback. In other words,

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Speaker 2: certain manufacturers actually prefer universal rollback to this bifurcation model.

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Speaker 2: And in a sense that's understandable because if the game

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Speaker 2: were bifurcated, then a lot of equipment companies would then

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Speaker 2: have to devote their RNA spend and their production capacity

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Speaker 2: to two different product lines.

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Speaker 1: Also, for years, ball count on the PGA Tour has

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Speaker 1: been such a important statistic, you know, most played.

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Speaker 2: Ball advertising AGA Tour appeal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and all of a sudden, if that ball is different,

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Speaker 1: then that marketing spend the years of maintaining the number

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Speaker 1: one ball on the PGA Tour or a high percentage

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Speaker 1: of PGA Tour players using a ball would go out

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Speaker 1: the window, right, Because then it's like, Okay, you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't have this marketing weapon that we've had forever,

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Speaker 1: Like play the ball that you know Justin Thomas plays,

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Speaker 1: play the ball that Jordan Speeth plays, Play the ball

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Speaker 1: that Rory McElroy plays, Like that doesn't exist if you

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Speaker 1: know they're playing different ball because you know amateurs.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: The funny thing is I think like bifurcation would have

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Speaker 1: led to this either way, right, Like I think it

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Speaker 1: would have gotten by it.

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Speaker 2: It would have trickled down. We talked about this when

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Speaker 2: when that news came out. Yeah, it was likely that

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Speaker 2: you know, the elite game is it leads when it

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Speaker 2: comes to equipment, and I think that the influence would

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Speaker 2: have been significant on all parts of the game.

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Speaker 1: So anyways, this uh, this is you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: we could get to the timeline and everything, but it

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Speaker 1: feels like where bifurcation would have gotten us to in

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty.

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Speaker 2: Either way, Yeah, that's very possible. You know. I think

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Speaker 2: that the governing bodies always wanted to have a broad

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Speaker 2: influence on the game as a whole. I don't think

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Speaker 2: their intention, ever, was just to affect the professional game,

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Speaker 2: because their research and their concern applies to the whole game,

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Speaker 2: not just to the elite game. And so that's been

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Speaker 2: true from the beginning. From the beginning, I believe the

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Speaker 2: governing bodies have wanted to affect the entire game, as

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Speaker 2: opposed to just one segment of it. But in any case,

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Speaker 2: the pretense has come down, and now the governing bodies

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Speaker 2: are reportedly going to say universal rollback is what we

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Speaker 2: are going to do. This information came out late Friday

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Speaker 2: night after markets have closed, right uh, a report from

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Speaker 2: Golf Digest comes out from an equipment journalist from Mike Stakhura.

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Speaker 2: Sorry if I'm pronouncing your name wrong. Mike. It could

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Speaker 2: be Stakura or Statura in any case, See, I should

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Speaker 2: know how to pronounce his name because he is a

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Speaker 2: very prominent journalist, well connected. He gets these scoops, and

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Speaker 2: he did a good job of getting this scoop. Now,

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that his sources

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Speaker 2: were not from the USGA and RNA. I think it

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Speaker 2: is reasonable to assume that his sources were from the

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Speaker 2: equipment industry.

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Speaker 1: And hey, before, you want to talk about something else

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Speaker 1: that happens late on Friday night, after you know, after

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Speaker 1: the market is closed, after work's done. What's that our

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Speaker 1: partner faccor our ship?

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Speaker 2: Oh nice transition into the ad.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, A people hanging and we talk about

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Speaker 1: Friday nights some more so. Anyways, Fat Cork's been a

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Speaker 1: partner of ours for the year, and I honestly I

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Speaker 1: didn't really I knew champagne. I drank champagne before Fat Cork.

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Speaker 2: Did you drink champagne or did you drink sparkling wine.

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Speaker 1: A little sparkling wine, prosecco, different things? Yea, sometimes champagne.

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Speaker 1: My wife was a big champagne fan. Yep, I was

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Speaker 1: like Okay, I could take it or leave it. At

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Speaker 1: this point, I've become very into champagne because of Fat Cork.

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Speaker 1: What Fat Cork does is they source their champagne from

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Speaker 1: the independent growers in France, just the same reasons that

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Speaker 1: we like our golf courses built by great golf architects

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Speaker 1: that are hand crafting this. This is why you should

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Speaker 1: get champagne from the growers. What they're doing. The way

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Speaker 1: the champagne industry works in general is that growers sell

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Speaker 1: eighty percent of their grapes, and a lot of the

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Speaker 1: big box champagne company take those grapes and basically mash

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Speaker 1: them all together, make them the same.

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Speaker 2: They lose the sense of place, They lose the terroir.

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Speaker 1: So the stuff that you really love about the uniqueness

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Speaker 1: of flavors, the sense of places you just said in grapes.

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Speaker 1: What fact Cork does is it delivers this super unique,

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Speaker 1: delicious wine that you can get nowhere else to your doorstep.

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Speaker 1: So they have an awesome champagne club. I you know,

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Speaker 1: we've basically been been members. I'm not gonna lie. Since

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Speaker 1: they partnered and my wife, as I said, huge champagne fan,

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Speaker 1: I cannot tell you the excitement that comes every time

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Speaker 1: this package comes in the mail, Like she will run

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Speaker 1: out to the shed and she'll be like, did you

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Speaker 1: know that this champagne was coming? Sometimes I do, sometimes

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Speaker 1: I don't, you know, And and she is so excited.

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Speaker 1: Immediately they you know, a bottle or two goes into

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Speaker 1: the fridge and she is drink that champagne as soon

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Speaker 1: as is politically correct, like you know, five pm. That

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Speaker 1: champagne just popped it up. Yeah. And so what I

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Speaker 1: would say is that you know, this is holiday season,

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Speaker 1: you're looking for gifts for your partner. If they're into champagne,

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Speaker 1: this is an incredible, incredible gift. Is this membership because

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Speaker 1: you're giving a gift that you know your partner or

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Speaker 1: yourself will really like appreciate. It comes once a quarter.

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Speaker 1: They've got three different tiers. They've got four bottles is

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Speaker 1: the Weekenders, six bottles quarterly, the Frequent Fizzers, twelve bottles quarterly,

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Speaker 1: the Merrymakers and for Frida Egg listeners. They've got a

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Speaker 1: little special promo anybody that joins the club. The first

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Speaker 1: thirty people that joined the club, they did this collaboration

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Speaker 1: with Seamus Goff. They made this awesome cork headcover. The

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Speaker 1: first thirty people to join get a cork headcover as

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Speaker 1: well as a champagne sleeve that keeps your champagne cold.

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Speaker 1: Highly recommend if you want to, like bring a champagne

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Speaker 1: bottle to a picnic or something, if you want to

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Speaker 1: do something you know nice, you want to plan a

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Speaker 1: special day, you know, at the park or something, as

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Speaker 1: well as champagne stoppers and a few other goodies. Now

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Speaker 1: that's for the club. I would highly recommend joining it.

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Speaker 1: But if you want to just try their champagne, use

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Speaker 1: the promo code Golf at checkout and you get free shipping.

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Speaker 1: And free shipping is like twenty to eighty dollars depending

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Speaker 1: on how many bottles you order, so this is non

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Speaker 1: insignificant sum of money. I saw on their website they

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Speaker 1: usually do free shipping for over four hundred dollars in orders,

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Speaker 1: so like, if you want to just go try a bottle,

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Speaker 1: you get free shipping with the promo code golf.

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Speaker 2: This is a fatcork dot com.

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Speaker 1: Yep, fatcork dot Com. Awesome, awesome people, huge golf nuts

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Speaker 1: like super into it and this is awesome product, really

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Speaker 1: amazing customer service, customer support. Thank you to our friend

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Speaker 1: at fatcork dot com. Now back to the Golf Digest article.

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Speaker 2: We were talking about how the news of the universal

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Speaker 2: rollback broke, and it wasn't because the governing bodies wanted

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Speaker 2: it to break last Friday night. They're going reportedly going.

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Speaker 1: To the bodies were probably into a bottle of fat

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Speaker 1: cork when it broke.

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Speaker 2: They very well, I think most of us were were

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Speaker 2: to some degree into a bottle of something at that

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Speaker 2: point in the night. And in any case, this article

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Speaker 2: comes out and h it is from an equipment reporter,

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Speaker 2: citing industry sources, likely equipment industry sources, and so you know,

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Speaker 2: you can see that there would be a motive from

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Speaker 2: equipment companies to get out ahead of the story to

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Speaker 2: make it a thing over the weekend, before the USGA

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Speaker 2: and RNA had a chance to put their message out there.

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Speaker 2: And so I'm sure that there must to be some

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Speaker 2: frustration among people at the governing bodies that this became

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Speaker 2: a thing over the weekend, but also maybe they should

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Speaker 2: have predicted that this would happen. In any case, that's

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Speaker 2: why we're talking about it now as opposed to after

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Speaker 2: the imminent announcement of this move to universal rollback. So

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Speaker 2: that is essentially where we are. It's been debated on

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Speaker 2: the internet all weekend. We've seen a lot of different

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Speaker 2: arguments and points being made. I'm sure there are other

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Speaker 2: podcasts coming out, other articles and newsletters being written, but

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Speaker 2: it's blowing up right now, and that's why we're talking

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I obviously I think like one of the one

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Speaker 1: of the things that you could say that the USGA

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Speaker 1: has not handled well is the messaging.

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Speaker 2: Nope, totally agree, because the thing is, I want to

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Speaker 2: be clear, their position is strong here, I think. Now

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Speaker 2: that's just my subjective opinion. Another thing that is more

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Speaker 2: objective is that their research, their preparation has been exemplary.

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Speaker 2: The Distance Insights project is an extraordinary piece of research.

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Speaker 2: But the problem is that nobody's read it. Some people,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people don't even know about it, and

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Speaker 2: in my opinion, a lot of these spokespeople, a lot

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Speaker 2: of the leaders for the governing bodies have not done

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Speaker 2: a good job of communicating the outcomes of that research

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Speaker 2: in an effective, concise, clear way, and that's a problem.

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Speaker 1: On top of that, you know what's out there and

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Speaker 1: what people are reacting to is a message that is

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Speaker 1: written by someone who regularly writes for about equipment releases

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Speaker 1: and equipment things like it is someone who is getting

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Speaker 1: all their information from one you know, seemingly getting all

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Speaker 1: their information. I just.

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Speaker 2: Journalists, no USGA people. I don't think this is where

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Speaker 2: this report was source from.

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Speaker 1: Well, when the USGA gives people information that they embargo

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Speaker 1: it and the release comes like it's like you cannot release.

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Speaker 2: They want to announce it first. They don't like the leaksh.

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Speaker 1: So so anyways, I think this was done completely out

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Speaker 1: of it and and what what's happened is that the

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Speaker 1: you know people have run with the information that Mike

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Speaker 1: in this case is presented and it's a great article.

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Speaker 1: But like the USGA, what I'm kind of struggling with

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Speaker 1: here is is this happened on Friday night and we're

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Speaker 1: recording now Monday afternoon, East Coast time. There's nothing the

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Speaker 1: USCA announced Curtis Cup, a Curtis Cup participation like that

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Speaker 1: was the press release I got for the USDA this

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Speaker 1: morning was about the Curtis Cup. And it's you know,

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Speaker 1: you've known that you're gonna do this for let's just say,

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Speaker 1: three months, two months at least you've communicated something to

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Speaker 1: the equipment manufacturers, which is why this report got released.

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Speaker 1: So you've had communication. How is there not like just

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Speaker 1: like a boiler plate statement, even even to the extent

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Speaker 1: of like, hey, you know, we know this is out there,

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Speaker 1: we're doing this like three bullets. We'll have more information

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Speaker 1: for you at this date, right, Like by by hanging

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Speaker 1: there in you know, it's allowing people to race around

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Speaker 1: to conclusions, like you know, like that statement they could

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Speaker 1: have released had could have had links to their their

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Speaker 1: insights report, right, it could have had like here's how

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Speaker 1: we got here, all these things. It's just it's just

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Speaker 1: kind of crazy. Where again, the people reacting to this,

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Speaker 1: The people that are talking about this are golf media.

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Speaker 1: Most of golf media and I are propped up by

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Speaker 1: equipment manufacturers. Bigest spend and their advertising portfolio is equipment

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Speaker 1: manufacturers and PGA tour pros. Those are the people that

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Speaker 1: are reacting to this, and they're all sponsored by the

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Speaker 1: equipment manufacturers. This was an opportunity to somewhat put put

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Speaker 1: out like a strong message and as of right now,

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Speaker 1: as of this recording, there's been nothing.

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Speaker 2: There are so many things that you could do to

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Speaker 2: communicate the findings of their research or to convey a

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Speaker 2: sense of what a rolled back world would look like,

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Speaker 2: and very few of them have been done so far,

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Speaker 2: and it feels like those of us who have supported

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Speaker 2: rollback for a long time are kind of carrying the

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Speaker 2: load here. And that feels a bit frustrating, because our

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Speaker 2: job really is to report on this stuff, to talk

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Speaker 2: about it in as honest a way as we can.

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Speaker 2: We are not interested in doing messaging for the governing bodies.

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Speaker 2: But it feels like that responsibility has fallen to people

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Speaker 2: who do support rollback, who do believe in shrinking the

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Speaker 2: scale of the game a bit for the sake of

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Speaker 2: golf courses, And so it's a you know, it's an

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Speaker 2: annoying position to be in. But with that said, maybe

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Speaker 2: we could get to a few of the debates that

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Speaker 2: have been happening about rollback, a few of the common

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Speaker 2: arguments against it, and what we might say in response

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Speaker 2: to those Do you want to do you want to

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Speaker 2: get there?

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Speaker 1: Yeah that sounds good. Okay, Well what do you think

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Speaker 1: about growing grass higher?

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Speaker 2: Just grow the grass, that's all you need to do. Okay. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this has been like a catchphrase from my golf Spy,

396
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Speaker 2: which is an independent equipment media company, and I go

397
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Speaker 2: to their website a lot. I look at the tests

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Speaker 2: that they do for drivers and hybrids and stuff. I'm

399
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Speaker 2: an equipment nerd. I like seeing this kind of stuff,

400
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Speaker 2: so I think they do a good job with that.

401
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Speaker 2: But basically they've said, all you need to do is

402
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Speaker 2: grow the grass and you'll have a rollback. So the

403
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 2: usgan R and A have actually done research on how

404
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Speaker 2: much fairway mow height effects distance, and it's at most

405
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Speaker 2: two to four yards, so that wouldn't have much of

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Speaker 2: an effect. But I'll give more credit to the grow

407
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Speaker 2: the Grass slogan right now than I think it deserves

408
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 2: and say that it's not just about fairway mow height

409
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Speaker 2: or rough height. What grow the Grass means to people,

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Speaker 2: I think is an overall setup and design philosophy that

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Speaker 2: would limit distance at the elite levels of the game.

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Speaker 2: And what I mean by this is there are those

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Speaker 2: who argue that we don't need to roll the ball back.

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Speaker 2: All we need to do is change the golf courses,

415
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Speaker 2: get the fairways a narrowerre make some more dog legs,

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Speaker 2: maybe put some trees in there, more penalty hazards. Sure,

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Speaker 2: you know, push the fairway, mo height up, grow the

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Speaker 2: rough up, and effectively what we would have would be

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00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: a rollback because players would strategically approach courses in a

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00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 2: different way. That's the overall philosophy that's being suggested here

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Speaker 2: as a replacement for changing the equipment. How do you

422
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: react to that.

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Speaker 1: I think that it's crazy. We've already seen this philosophy,

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Speaker 1: the philosophy of grow the rough up, narrow the fairways,

425
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 1: what moto. What this philosophy does is it promotes distance

426
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Speaker 1: even more when faraway has become impossible to hit and

427
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: the penalty for missing them a small fairway becomes extremely high.

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Speaker 1: What it does is it promotes the you know, it's

429
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Speaker 1: just a game of chance. So the game of chance,

430
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Speaker 1: it's best to just swing away and hit it as

431
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Speaker 1: hard as you can. I think Rory had comments about

432
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Speaker 1: this at Okhill, where like I think after like the

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00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: first round, he he had this realization that he should

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Speaker 1: just hit it as far as he could, yeah, and

435
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: he would end up in a better spot like more

436
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: often like I'm probably not going to hit the fairway anyways,

437
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: so I might as well hit it as far as

438
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: I possibly can.

439
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 2: Wait, wasn't it. It was Xander who said this.

440
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: Right, somebody I can't remember who said it, but it

441
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: was like they had this realization. It's like, well, I

442
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: might as well hit it as far as I can

443
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: because I'm probably not going to hit the fairway anyways.

444
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: So that's what the golf. Golf becomes, that which just

445
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: promotes distance and speed even more and eats away at

446
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: the skill. I think what people are missing just in general,

447
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: it's not about low scores. This isn't about low scores.

448
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: It's about how scorers are being achieved on the PGA

449
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: Tour and how scores are being achieved is it's become

450
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: like almost every course is reduced to driver wedge. I mean,

451
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: when you think about how long a golf hole needs

452
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: to be to consistently get like a seven iron in

453
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: elite players hands, I mean you're talking about like a

454
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: five hundred and fifty yard hole. Yeah, I mean it's insane,

455
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: like five point twenty a lot of times ends up

456
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: being like a driver nine iron for the long players.

457
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: And it's just it means like a it's about a

458
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: representation of the game that is, like, this game is

459
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: more than just hitting a wet a driver in a wedge.

460
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: It is about using all the clubs in the bag, right.

461
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: I saw a pro I saw Michael Kim tweet about, like, oh,

462
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: how like it would be great to limit limit clubs

463
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: in the bag. Yeah, but not change anything.

464
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 2: Ten clubs ten clubs, yeah, I think. I don't think

465
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: the players use fourteen clubs anything. Irons iron six through

466
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: four are pretty much out of use at this point anyway.

467
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: They're only used on par fives and par threes like,

468
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: so that wouldn't change that much. Like the problem, it's

469
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: just moving around the problem. The problem is that the

470
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: ball goes so far that it's almost impossible to get

471
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: long irons in players hands outside of par fives and

472
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: par threes, right and in order, Like long par threes

473
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: used to be two hundred yards long par threes today

474
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: are like two two hundred and seventy yards. I mean

475
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: that nothing and golf signifies that as much I and

476
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: I just I think that's the that's the thing that

477
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: people are missing a little bit. And I understand, like

478
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,719
Speaker 1: it's really easy to just look at scores. Oh, scoring

479
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: is not that much different. Like golf courses are attempting

480
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: everything they can do to curb scores, and scoring hasn't

481
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: you know, changed that much. But like the means in

482
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: the clubs and the skills that are required to score

483
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: have never been less than now, right.

484
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: And to be clear, this is just one part of

485
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: what we're concerned about with distance gains in golf, the

486
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: stuff related to the pro game, the strategic approach to

487
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: golf courses that has emerged in this era, the one

488
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 2: dimensionality of the game as compared to how it used

489
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 2: to be played years ago, forty years ago. That's just

490
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 2: this is just one part of this is just one

491
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: part of it, to be clear. Another part of it

492
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: is is more broadly applicable to the golf world.

493
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: But well, I think people people are people are like, oh,

494
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: this only matters for the pros. It doesn't if you

495
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: go look at like state ams. This matters at state ams.

496
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: State ams like have a bigger distance problem than the

497
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: pro game. You know, there's only so many golf courses

498
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: in the in the country that could present a good

499
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: test for people that hit it three hundred and thirty yards, right,

500
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: A lot of state ams get contested at sixty five

501
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: hundred yard courses where like I played one with Nick Carty.

502
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: Nick Carty was in college. Nick Carty, who's on the

503
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: PGA Tour. He I think he finished fifty one on

504
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: the on the FedEx Cup. Nick Carty played the sixty

505
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: five hundred yard course and shot twenty eight under over

506
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: four rounds. Twenty eight under. It was incredible. It was

507
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: utterly unbelieve unbelievable. But for him, a sixty five hundred

508
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: yard course with limited trouble, like, here's just hidden driver

509
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: up there and just hidden wedges, like little flip wedges

510
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: close like there's nothing a golf course like that can

511
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: do to protect against it. This there is a three

512
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: hundred yard hitter, somebody who is at three hundred yard

513
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: plus yards at every course in America. I would you know,

514
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: glean to guess. Would you agree with that?

515
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 2: Yes? I would. And this is something that people often

516
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: forget about when they talk about the effect of distance

517
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: gains on the average player's game. Yes, the average player

518
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: isn't the problem in the sense that the ninety five

519
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 2: to one hundred mile per hour driver swinger is not

520
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: the problem. But every course has a few players who

521
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: hit the ball really far and the course needs to

522
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: be sized for them, right, And that that is where

523
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 2: the issue with golf course size creeps in is that

524
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: not just professional venues, but normal golf courses try to

525
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 2: size themselves for the longest players because if they don't

526
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 2: do that, those players won't show up or will be

527
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: hitting the ball all over the ballpark in a way

528
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 2: that's not particularly safe.

529
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: And and so I think the safety thing is the

530
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: biggest issue here. Like there are long hitters at local munis,

531
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: and you know what, those long hitters don't do that

532
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: PGA tour players do. They aren't as accurate. They present

533
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: a lot of like I am like the least the

534
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: least into the idea of like safety as a golf

535
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: architecture architecture thing, Like I think like a lot of

536
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 1: safety measures yield things less safe. But for these courses,

537
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: when somebody is a let's just say a five handicap

538
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: and hits the ball three hundred and ten yards, they're

539
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: very wild and all of a sudden, it's like they're

540
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: hitting it all over the place roads because they could

541
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: hit it twenty yards thirty yards further than thirty years

542
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: ago because of equipment, let's be clear, because of equipment.

543
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: And Tiger Woods talked about this in his press conference

544
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: at the Hero this is all equipment game, this is

545
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: not he talked about it. He's like, I hit the

546
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: ball further now than when I came on tour because

547
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: of the tech. That's what he said, all right.

548
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 2: I mean he doesn't swing faster now.

549
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: So so because of this tech. Like I've gone back

550
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 1: and played the Beauty that I played in high school.

551
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: I was a high school golfer. I played on a

552
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: team that was very good in our state. Like I

553
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: used to hit like a mid iron into the first

554
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: screen at my Beauty that I grew up playing. Now

555
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: I hit like a sixty yard wedge.

556
00:35:59,280 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: You know.

557
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 1: Like this is so this longer. It brings roads into

558
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: dispersion patterns. It brings other fair ways into dispersion patterns.

559
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 1: It brings other greens into dispersion patterns that weren't there

560
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: when the course was built. So this presents problems. And

561
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 1: getting five percent back also reduces the dispersion pattern that

562
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: same five percent the thing that I think is missing.

563
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: And I guess we're hitting on another subject here. People saying, oh,

564
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: you're making the game harder. I'm not sure that this

565
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: is going to make the game harder. I have I

566
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: think it might fractionally, like very very small amount, make

567
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: the game harder, and for some players, I think it

568
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: will make the game easier because the ball will go

569
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: less offline.

570
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's very possible, and it's very player dependent.

571
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: Hey, Garrett, let's take a quick break to talk about

572
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: ag one. You know, about a year ago, I wasn't

573
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 1: feeling great. I was run down. I had done a

574
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: lot of travel. This year, honestly, I've done just as

575
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: much travel, maybe more travel. And the thing that you

576
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: know was different about this year than that year. And

577
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: you know this if you've been listening for the last

578
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 1: years that I've been drinking ag one. When I started

579
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: drinking ag one daily, what it really did was just

580
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: helped me get on a regular, healthy routine. And what

581
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 1: I noticed was by drinking ag one, I was healthier

582
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: in other aspects of my life. I started to exercise more,

583
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: I had more focus. You know, when it came to work,

584
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: I just got into a better routine. I set aside

585
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: more time for my personal side of things. I was

586
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: more efficient with my time working. And that's because ag

587
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: one is a foundational nutrition supplement that supports your body's

588
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: universe versal needs like gut optimization, stress management, and immune support.

589
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: Since twenty ten, ag one has led the future of

590
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: foundational nutrition, continuously refining their formula to create a smarter,

591
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: better way to elevate your baseline health. Not only did

592
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: I replace my multivitamin with AG one, but I love

593
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 1: that every scoop also includes prebiotics, probiotics and digestive enzymes

594
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: for gut support. You know, a ton of other things,

595
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: magnesium and B vitamins for energy support, adaptogens to balance

596
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: my body stress levels. I mean, it's just got tons

597
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: of stuff packed in it. I recommend this to all

598
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: my friends and family because of you know, it's it's awesome.

599
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: So ag one is the supplement I trust to provide

600
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: the support my body needs daily, and that's why they've

601
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: been a partner for so long. If you want to

602
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: take ownership of your health, it starts with ag one.

603
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: Try ag one and get a free what are your

604
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,760
Speaker 1: supply of Vitamin D three, K two and five free

605
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: AG one travel packs with your first purchase. Go to

606
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 1: drinkag one dot com slash the fried egg. That's drinkag

607
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: one dot com slash the fried egg. Check it out

608
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: all right, let's get back to it, Garrett.

609
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: I want to get back quickly to the course setup

610
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: and course design issues. You mentioned that courses that grow

611
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: their rough up and narrow their fairways often have the

612
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 2: unintended effect of actually making things easier for the longest

613
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 2: players relative to the shortest players. I think that's true.

614
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 2: But there are also courses out there there's a model

615
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 2: of design and setup where the advantage of distance is limited.

616
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: These are the harbor towns of the world, right the

617
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 2: TPC sawgrasses. A lot of pete die courses do this,

618
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 2: and they do it through the use of penalty hazard,

619
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 2: water hazards, sharp dog legs, plenty of trees, narrow corridors. Basically,

620
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: these courses through everything at the wall to get players

621
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 2: to know on occasion take driver out of the back.

622
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: And so those courses do limit the advantage of distance

623
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 2: in the way that many anti rollback people would want.

624
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. We should want a variety of

625
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: golf courses in the world. This is where our love

626
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 2: for golf architecture really comes out. I think in this debate, Andy,

627
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,479
Speaker 2: it's when people suggest that all golf courses should should

628
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: pursue the same model for setups for elite tournaments. It

629
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 2: makes me cringe because I really wouldn't want to see

630
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 2: golf courses do that. First of all, it would be

631
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 2: very expensive, and that's an issue that deserves more attention.

632
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 2: The financial consequences of distance gains for golf courses. I

633
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 2: think that might be the single biggest factor motivating the rollback,

634
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 2: and we haven't even touched on it yet. So there's

635
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 2: the cost issue, but there's also the design and art issue.

636
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 2: You don't want every golf course that hosts an elite

637
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 2: tournament to pursue this same design philosophy. We like variety

638
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 2: in our golf courses. That's one of the central beauties

639
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 2: of this game at all levels is the variety of

640
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 2: playing fields that we get to play on and that

641
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 2: we get to see golf plate on. And if you're

642
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: saying that we have to homogenize golf courses to a

643
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 2: certain model, to the Harbor Town or TPC Sagrass model.

644
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 2: As great as those courses are, they wouldn't feel so

645
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,720
Speaker 2: great if they were every golf course.

646
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: I always like to compare golf courses with restaurants. I

647
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 1: think there's so many parallels. Just imagine if the restaurant

648
00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: industry became everybody has to do the same thing. Yeah,

649
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: because of some technological advance that like you know, eaters have,

650
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: you know, technology is forced this to be the only

651
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: way you can have a restaurant. You'd be like, wait, what,

652
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: like I can't have different experiences, Like this is the

653
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 1: only way and I especially with golf on TV, like

654
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: you contrast is so so important. Different tests are so

655
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: important because you know, that's what makes golf different than

656
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: every other sport. It's it's the player against a feel

657
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: against the course, right, and different courses are should be

658
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 1: set up to reward different skills and different tests. There

659
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: should be different tests. That's what makes the game so compelling.

660
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: That's what makes it different than every other sport. Like

661
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: you know, basketball, it's about how one team matches up

662
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: with another team. Golf is about how this set of

663
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: elite players match up against the course. That's the discourse.

664
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: Like at every Master's like when when a new star

665
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: comes on the on the scene is like how will

666
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 1: he match up against augusta national? Right, how will his

667
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: skills translate? At the Masters, right, They're like one of

668
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: the big storylines every year going into Augusta is like,

669
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: why is JT? Why does JT not have that had

670
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: that master's breakthrough that everybody is expected his game should

671
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: fit here wonderfully, Why hasn't he? Every time we go

672
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 1: to a major site that we haven't seen in a while,

673
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: it is what type of players are going to thrive

674
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: at this golf course?

675
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 2: Right?

676
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: And if all the golf courses become the same, that

677
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 1: makes golf infinitely less compelling. And the way that distance

678
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: was advancing the idea, and I think this is a

679
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: later topic. The idea with Bryson finding a driver that

680
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: he could hit anywhere on the face, you know, and

681
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: that was this big breakthrough in twenty twenty four was

682
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: like I can hit this driver anywhere and I get

683
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: like a very good result. That's really bad for the

684
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: overall game, right. Imagine a pair of gloves that you know,

685
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: a receiver in football could wear that they you know

686
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: after a game. You know this, somebody, let's just use

687
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 1: Marquez Valdez Scantling. He had a big drop a couple

688
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: of weeks ago, you know, very fast but unreliable hands.

689
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: If he starts catching balls all every ball that's thrown

690
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: to him, and people are like, what's happened with your

691
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: ability to catch a ball? And he says, you know,

692
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 1: I got these new gloves and if my hand touches

693
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: the ball, I'm going to catch it. Do you think

694
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: that football fans would be like, well, that that doesn't

695
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: seem right now.

696
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 2: It's not as impressive when a player jumps up high

697
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 2: in the air and catches the ball with one hand

698
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 2: and manages to come down with it. You're like, Okay,

699
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 2: well I expect that.

700
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: I think the thing the overarching So golf courses need variety,

701
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: they need to be a different tests. But also for

702
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour players, I think it's like actually been

703
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: super unfair to them what they've lived through the last

704
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: ten to fifteen years where there's this constant question hanging

705
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: over is it like is this player really that great?

706
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 1: Or is the technology gotten to such a level that

707
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: it it has made that made all these players great?

708
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 1: Like is this class of player really are they that great?

709
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: Are there that many great players? Or is the technology

710
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: just made the game so simple that it allows a

711
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: lot of players to be at this level? And I

712
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: think that should be the guiding principle on all these

713
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 1: decisions in terms of elite play. And this is where

714
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: I hope that this is just the beginning of some regulation,

715
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: because I think there are a lot of other aspects

716
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: of this that you could go to make the product

717
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: of golf are more fascinating on a television side of things.

718
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that this needs to be the case

719
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: for everybody, but I think that golf would be significantly

720
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: better with more regulation in the professional game. Make it

721
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 1: more about the players and their skills and like, don't

722
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: make technology that they have in their hands any part

723
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 1: of the story.

724
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 2: Right. I think both of us would love to see

725
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 2: possibly a model rule related to a driver head regulation, right,

726
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 2: so smaller, maybe less spring like effect. These are the

727
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 2: things that are the factors that are currently regulated when

728
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 2: it comes to driver head. I think that there's a

729
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 2: way to come up with a model local rule that

730
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 2: would be minimally disruptive, that would reintroduce some more skill

731
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 2: into the driving game at the elite levels of play.

732
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 2: I believe that would be a tough sell in the

733
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 2: amateur game. But I also thought to three years ago

734
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 2: that a rold back ball would be a prohibitively tough

735
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 2: sell for the amateur game, and maybe that that's still

736
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 2: the case, but we have gotten to this point. So

737
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: I want to address one quick question or a point

738
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 2: of debate that people often bring bring up and then

739
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 2: get into talking about the questions around whether this makes

740
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 2: the game harder for amateurs, because I think you and

741
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 2: I can discuss that really well. But I do want

742
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 2: to touch on one thing quickly that people often bring up.

743
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 2: This is maybe the single most common point that I

744
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: see being made in opposition to roll back, and it

745
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: is an honest confusion that people have. They ask why

746
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 2: should amateur players be forced to compensate for a problem

747
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 2: that's limited to the top point oh one percent of

748
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 2: elite golfers. In other words, if this is just a

749
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 2: problem that exists in the professional game and four professional courses,

750
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 2: then why am I asked to be Why am I

751
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 2: at being asked to shoulder some of the load here?

752
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 2: And that's just it's a point that I see being

753
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 2: made over and over. It's the elite golfers and the

754
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 2: elite courses that are disrupting my average game at average courses.

755
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 2: That there's a little bit of anger here toward the

756
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 2: elite trying to change how normal players play the game.

757
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 2: And I get that. The thing is, if anybody, if

758
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 2: anybody had read the research that came out, if anybody

759
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 2: had engaged with the Distance Insights Project and looked at

760
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 2: what they were studying and what they found, they would

761
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 2: see that this problem is certainly not limited to professional

762
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 2: golf venues. The distance gains across the history of golf

763
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 2: have caused golf courses not just for elite players, but

764
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 2: for all players to get longer, to have to get longer,

765
00:48:55,840 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: to expand their footprints, to push up their maintenance, and,

766
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 2: by the way, to push up your green fees. Maybe

767
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 2: that process isn't very visible to you. Maybe you just

768
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 2: see rising green fees and think, well, that sucks. Inflation

769
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 2: or whatever. There are a number of factors that could

770
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 2: cause green fees to rise, but part of that story

771
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 2: of the rising costs of golf is that the footprint

772
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 2: of golf courses has had to get better over the

773
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: course of history. In order to accommodate advances in equipment.

774
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 2: Golf courses have had to push up their own budgets

775
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 2: to react to what's been happening in the equipment industry.

776
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 2: Golf courses need to pay those bills and what the

777
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 2: governing bodies are doing is intervening and saying somebody needs

778
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 2: to speak up for the golf courses here because the

779
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 2: industry as a whole is not going to be sustainable

780
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 2: if we keep going in this direction. And that's not

781
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 2: just professional venues. That is so many golf courses, ones

782
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 2: that host state amateurs, ones that host qualifiers, and just

783
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 2: normal golf courses.

784
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: How about the marketing term championship golf Like a championship

785
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: golf course. Everybody's seen that marketed from a local course.

786
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: This is a championship golf course, and it came with

787
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 1: a moniker of like being a certain distance, you know,

788
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,720
Speaker 1: sixty eight hundred yards whatever, you know, seven thousand yards,

789
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: and the idea of the championship golf course was pooh

790
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: pooing the sixty three hundred yard old school course down

791
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: the street, right Like that was the whole marketing ploy

792
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: was that come play this new golf course that's built.

793
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:42,800
Speaker 1: That's a modern golf course. It's it is a long, tough,

794
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: challenging test. And I think like there's been a reaction

795
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 1: in the golf world in a movement in the last

796
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: you know, ten to fifteen twenty years too, like isn't

797
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: it wonderful these sixty three hundred yard courses that are

798
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 1: like that, I could get around quicker. You know, they

799
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 1: take three and a half hours to play sometimes instead

800
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: of five, and you know there aren't as many water hazards,

801
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: and you know it's really nice when you walk off

802
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: of green and the te's right next to it. Like

803
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: there's been this reaction. I've seen people be like, you know,

804
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,760
Speaker 1: what's the big deal if you can knock three hundred

805
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: yards off a golf course And it's like, are we

806
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: really talking about three football fields of turf that don't

807
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: have to be maintained as like not a big deal, right?

808
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 2: Or maybe you can close down that back tea box.

809
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 2: Yeah you felt you had to build and you're just

810
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 2: sending mowers out there every day, and it would be

811
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,959
Speaker 2: a lot simpler if you could just kind of chop

812
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: that off of your maintenance routine and you know, maintain

813
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,439
Speaker 2: a smaller footprint.

814
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: And I've seen some people talk about what about forward tees?

815
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: You know, are forward t is going to be obsolete

816
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: with this change? Now, if if it's a five percent

817
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: change for players that would play the forward tees, I

818
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 1: would doubt that it will be a full five percent.

819
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: But if it is, you know what the leading I

820
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: would say the most forward thinking golf courses in the

821
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: world resorts are doing with forward tees and and a

822
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: lot of non back tees just in general, they're in

823
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: the fairway.

824
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 2: They just put them in the fairway, on the fairway,

825
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: and they put them there.

826
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: Epically acceptable to put a forward tee in the fairway.

827
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: Because the traffic is a little bit less. Right. The

828
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 2: reason that a tea has to be big is if

829
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 2: it gets a lot of foot traffic. But the most

830
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 2: forward t at a golf course, frankly, it doesn't get

831
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 2: as much traffic as the end it should be, so

832
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 2: it can be a little more casual.

833
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: Every golf course, see this is just a separate sidebar topic,

834
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: but like every golf course in America should have like

835
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: a thirty five hundred yard tee that's basically like in

836
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: the fairway on every hole. Absolutely a lot of them

837
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: do it with plates for like kid teas. You know

838
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 1: at one hundred and fifty, there's no reason there can't

839
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: be another tea box like this is you don't need

840
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 1: a tea box. I set up our fried egg events

841
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: often and sometimes I put tea boxes that are on

842
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 1: areas that I think would be really cool to hit

843
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 1: a tea shot from. That's not a standard tea box.

844
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: It's okay, how many times when you were When I

845
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: was playing a lot of golf and very competitively in

846
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:29,280
Speaker 1: my like early twenties, I played at a golf course

847
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: that was sixty four hundred yards regularly, and you know

848
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: what I did. I had a bunch of back tea boxes.

849
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: I stretched that thing to sixty eight hundred yards for myself.

850
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: But the tea boxes were like in preposterous spots. They

851
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: were like off behind a fairway on another hole, and

852
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,760
Speaker 1: I would I found like a little flat fairway spot

853
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: and I tea off from there, and people would play

854
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: with me. They're like this is crazy, and it's like, yeah,

855
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to set this golf course up a

856
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: little bit differently for myself. You know, Like this is

857
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: the thing is that just like that forward t's can

858
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: just go to the fairway. That's what we I mean,

859
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 1: it's what we do so much at our events is

860
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: we move. It's fun and it's perfectly fine. It's the

861
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 1: same as a tea box.

862
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, building a forward t doesn't necessarily have

863
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 2: to push up the maintenance budget. Building back tea's does

864
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 2: tend to because they're not typically within the existing footprint

865
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 2: of the golf course. And so if people are equating

866
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 2: the maintenance cost of a forward T with the maintenance

867
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 2: cost of a newly built back tea or whatever, then

868
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 2: they just don't know what they're talking about. And the

869
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 2: people who bring up these points, I mean, are are

870
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 2: sort of the people who generally don't know what they're

871
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 2: talking about, but are out there talking and we all

872
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 2: know who they are on Twitter, et cetera. So, moving

873
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 2: on from those issues around golf course sustainability, financial as

874
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 2: well as environmental, that is really the main issue here,

875
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 2: and it's the one one that is hardest to understand,

876
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 2: I think, and that requires people to actually look at

877
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,760
Speaker 2: the research that has been done and try to get

878
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 2: what the governing bodies are really concerned about here on

879
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 2: an industry wide basis. And I think that once you

880
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,720
Speaker 2: see some of the facts and some of the discoveries

881
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 2: of this process that the RNA and USGA have gone

882
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 2: through over the past several years, that maybe you won't

883
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 2: agree with it, but you'll at least understand it a

884
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 2: little better and you won't have as many questions and

885
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 2: confusions as you might right now. So highly recommend going

886
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 2: and looking at some of that stuff. But I'd like

887
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 2: to talk about this issue of making the game harder

888
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 2: for average players and whether this is going to make

889
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 2: a moment of rising popularity in golf less celebrated, because

890
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 2: you know, golf has seen a surge since COVID, and

891
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,839
Speaker 2: now we're just making the game harder for everybody, and

892
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 2: everybody's just going to abandon the game, and you know

893
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 2: we'll be back in the in the dark ages again.

894
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about making the game harder for

895
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 2: average players. Andy, you're not an average player, You're an

896
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:19,240
Speaker 2: exceptional player. I am closer to an average player, maybe

897
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 2: maybe on the maybe on the higher end of ability

898
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 2: for most average players, but but not significantly on the

899
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 2: higher end. Do you think this is going to make

900
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 2: the game harder you talked earlier about you know, maybe

901
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 2: players who are a little bit wild, they might actually

902
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 2: see their dispersion shrink a little bit. But in general,

903
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 2: when you look at average players, do you think a

904
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 2: five percent rolled back ball is going to make a

905
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 2: big difference?

906
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: I think for every player, it's going to be different.

907
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: And for people to make these blanket statements about you

908
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 1: know what you know everybody is going to do is

909
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: kind of wildly off base. In general, I think there

910
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 1: was data a data golf. I've had something at the

911
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 1: PGA Tour level ten ten ten yards is worth like

912
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: a half a shot.

913
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 2: So and that's for PGA Tour players who hit the

914
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 2: ball in this in the same spot on the club

915
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 2: head pretty much all the time in a way that

916
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 2: average players don't even come close to.

917
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: So for the for the very best players, where like

918
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: the very best players are like Lamborghini's right.

919
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, their margins are thin, right, and so that's why

920
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 2: they pursue those those marginal gains.

921
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: And like in a way like they're more consistent. But

922
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: when things go bad, we see this, We see this

923
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 1: with PGA. I mean like Billy Horssechell shot what like

924
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: eighty five this year at Memorial. Like when things go

925
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: bad for really good players, it's like embarrassingly bad, right,

926
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: Like you just like you can look like a complete dog,

927
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 1: Like you could play with a PGA Tour player who

928
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: has a bad day and you could walk off the

929
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: course and be like, is that really a PGA Tour player,

930
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: like you know, but like what makes so what I'm

931
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: trying to say here is that say you hit four

932
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 1: solid golf shots around right, and this ball goes five

933
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: to ten yards shorter for those four solid shots, and

934
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: you've adjusted. I don't think this is a huge deal.

935
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: Like half the country plays at altitude and then they

936
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 1: go play somewhere else that's not at altitude. You don't

937
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: hear people be like, well, it's way harder because it

938
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: wasn't an altitude. I don't think I've ever heard somebody say, like,

939
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: you know, I'm struggling to play golf here because of

940
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: the altitude. Isn't because I'm leaving altitude. Have you ever

941
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: heard somebody complain about that.

942
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 2: There are innumerable factors that cause your distance off the

943
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 2: tee to vary from day to day. Altitude is one

944
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 2: of them. The sogginess of the turf is one of them.

945
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 2: The air density is one of them. You know, I

946
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 2: want to talk.

947
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: About regular players, Like this is something that I think

948
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: about all the time, is like I played really well

949
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: if I've played three days in a row, and what

950
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: happens to me is my body gets used to swinging

951
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: a golf club again, and my and my muscles get

952
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: longer and I hit it, I'll hit it twenty yards

953
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 1: further or ten to fifteen yards further three days on

954
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: the third day, ind than I hit it the first day.

955
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: Just because my swing short, I don't have like the speed.

956
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: My speed comes back as I play more days in

957
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 1: a row. Yeah, I mean, I don't think a lot

958
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 1: of regular players ever even think about this, right, Like.

959
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 2: I mean I think of it. I have a bad back.

960
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 2: On a day when my back is feeling good, I'm

961
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 2: a lot longer off the tee.

962
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: I I just think that it's kind of like, yeah,

963
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: sure it might, it's going to be a little harder.

964
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: I played with Persimmons for a year and a half.

965
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 1: I played with Persimmons and in seventies blades, and can

966
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 1: I can confidently say, like I am one thousand percent

967
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: sure that I got extremely, like way better at golf

968
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 1: because of that period. And why I got better was

969
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: like I was forty yards shorter off the tee. And

970
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 1: I think, like one of the things that I'm good

971
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: at in my personal game, this is all personal, is

972
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: that like I hit a driver really well, a modern

973
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 1: driver really well, and when I lost forty yards, I

974
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 1: stopped having a lot of wedges in my hand, and

975
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 1: then I was hitting mid irons.

976
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 2: And you were hitting the Wilson goose necks.

977
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was hitting mid irons, And.

978
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 2: So it's meaningful, like the difference between a five iron

979
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 2: and a eight iron with those those clubs.

980
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: Is hugely meaningful. So then I missed more greens, and

981
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 1: I missed more greens, so I had to get up

982
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: and down more. But anyways, I came out of it

983
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 1: away better golfer because what was valued was hitting the

984
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: center of the club face. What was valued, like my

985
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: short game got better because I was chipping more on

986
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 1: a round by round basis. And then when I went

987
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 1: back to modern technology, I was a substantially improved golfer.

988
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 1: But the thing I found was that when I played well,

989
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 1: I still still shot really low scores.

990
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, your ceiling, your ceiling was still there.

991
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: Yes, And what even despite being forty yards shorter, my

992
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 1: my ceiling was still there. And and that's the thing

993
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 1: I think that like this is such a small loss.

994
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: You might shoot a few more scorers that are a

995
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: little higher, but I don't think you're gonna lose this set, Like,

996
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: because because you could break eighty with modern club, with

997
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: the current equipment, if you lose five percent on your

998
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 1: on your distance, doesn't mean you can't break eighty outside

999
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, Like I mean so much. A golf

1000
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 1: is a mindset and attitude thing and a confidence thing,

1001
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 1: and I just I think that, like, yeah, sure you might,

1002
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 1: you might be slightly worse, your handicap might go up

1003
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 1: like a half a shot. I just don't think that

1004
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 1: maybe real, maybe maybe you might get better.

1005
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, Like there are so many

1006
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 2: variables when it comes to a mid handicap player's game.

1007
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 2: You know, I can shoot ninety on a given day.

1008
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 2: I can also shoot seventy five on a given day.

1009
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 2: That's all within my ability and my shooting on the

1010
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 2: lower end of that spectrum versus the higher end of

1011
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 2: that spectrum depends really on how many drives I hit

1012
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 2: out of bounds, or how many pitches I absolutely lay

1013
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 2: the sod over, or how many times I miss a

1014
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 2: one footer. It's stuff like that that makes me shoot

1015
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:05,479
Speaker 2: ninety and so hitting the ball two hundred and thirty

1016
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 2: yards off the tee on a perfect strike versus two

1017
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 2: hundred and forty two yards off the t on a

1018
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 2: perfect strike. Okay, that's a difference. That's a club into

1019
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 2: the green and the and the club into the green

1020
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 2: is going to be a marginally shorter as well. But

1021
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 2: you know what, that's not really what makes me score

1022
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 2: well or poorly. What makes me score well or poorly

1023
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 2: are the big mistakes that I make in every round.

1024
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 2: And if I make fewer of those, I'm going to

1025
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 2: do well on that day. If I make more of them,

1026
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 2: I'm going to do worse on that day. And that's

1027
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 2: going to be just as true after the rollback as

1028
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 2: it was before.

1029
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: I think. The other thing is that when you're if

1030
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: the ball's going less, you're dispersions smaller, and thus the

1031
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 1: big cataclysmic mistakes that a lot of players make, every

1032
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: player in the world makes become less because of the

1033
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 1: distance dispersion that the how far off line you hit,

1034
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 1: it becomes smaller, so you might hit one extra fairway

1035
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: around and that makes up for the one extra club

1036
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 1: that you're hitting into the green.

1037
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:26,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah, this is a I mean, the difference

1038
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 2: between playing with a five percent roll back ball and

1039
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 2: today's ball is I think going to be quite a

1040
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 2: bit smaller than people imagine. But at the same time,

1041
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:39,919
Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to piss down people's legs

1042
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,439
Speaker 2: and pretend it's raining. This is a difference like if

1043
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 2: you could choose to be twelve yards longer off the

1044
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 2: tee versus twelve yards shorter. Of course you choose to

1045
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 2: be twelve yards longer. Of course that is ultimately going

1046
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 2: to be an advantage. So let's grant that a roll

1047
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 2: back ball makes the game slightly more difficult for average players.

1048
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 2: I would say two things to that. One is that

1049
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 2: if you believe that a rollback would be good for

1050
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 2: the game overall, if you review the research and look

1051
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 2: at all the issues from a global perspective and decide

1052
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 2: that a rollback would be a positive for the game,

1053
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 2: then I think you should be willing to make that

1054
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 2: small sacrifice for the greater good. And I know this

1055
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 2: is a little bit old fashioned to say this, or

1056
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 2: maybe maybe a little bit lame, but shouldn't I think

1057
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 2: something that's a little that's unique about golfers is that

1058
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 2: we are concerned for the game overall. We're devoted to golf,

1059
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 2: we love this game, and so I think we should

1060
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 2: take the perspective that we want to do something that

1061
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 2: is good for golf overall. That's one thing. The other

1062
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 2: thing is that if you took up golf because you

1063
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 2: wanted it to be easy, then I would say you're

1064
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 2: a somewhat unusual golfer. Most of us play this sport

1065
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 2: because it's hard, and the fact that it might become

1066
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 2: marginally harder I don't think should necessarily be that big

1067
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 2: of a deal to people who are as sick as us.

1068
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 1: I think there's something to be said too that, like,

1069
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 1: some things are good about golf courses are going to

1070
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 1: get easier, and some things are going to get harder

1071
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 1: if you hit it five percent shorter, right, Like a

1072
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 1: bunker you could clear will get harder if you can't

1073
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 1: clear it anymore. But there's also a bunkers that you

1074
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: probably hit into regularly that you're like, damn that bunker

1075
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,480
Speaker 1: I always hit into it, that you won't get to anymore.

1076
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:48,439
Speaker 1: Like it that it's going to work both ways right

1077
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 1: where some features are and I think, like what the

1078
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 1: big thing at the at the professional level of this

1079
01:06:56,400 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 1: changes is like actually restoring the long hitters having to

1080
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: think about bunkers, right, Like, I think that's the goal

1081
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 1: of this whole thing is that, like the game gets

1082
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 1: really out of whack with distance when the long hitters

1083
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 1: can bypass all the hazards and the medium length hitters

1084
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,360
Speaker 1: on tour then hit into it, and then it becomes well,

1085
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 1: just build new bunkers. Well then it's like wait, so

1086
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 1: like one hundred courses or two hundred, and if you

1087
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 1: start to think about state ams or other smaller USGA

1088
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 1: events USGA qualifiers, so downstream, five hundred golf courses have

1089
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 1: to do millions of dollars of renovation work to put

1090
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:44,919
Speaker 1: bunkers in places that these long hitters that are going

1091
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 1: to get longer are eventually going to carry, right, Like

1092
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 1: it's a self perpetuating thing. But the idea of the

1093
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 1: distance coming back, like you're going to be like, oh,

1094
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 1: I work my ass off to be able to hit

1095
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: it over this creek and now it can't. Well, there's

1096
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 1: all also a bunker that probably came into your purview

1097
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 1: or a hazard that came into your into your you know,

1098
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 1: potential outcomes because of that same distance game that cleared

1099
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 1: that one creek. Right, So you just need to think

1100
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: about this. I think back when I played in in

1101
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,599
Speaker 1: the mid Am, I think back to this all the time.

1102
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,679
Speaker 1: There's a center line bunker on one of the holes,

1103
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:24,719
Speaker 1: and I was I was well well inside the cut

1104
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 1: line to make match play going into my last nine

1105
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 1: of qualifying, and I completely shit the bed and my

1106
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 1: like downfall happened on a hole with a cunderlined bunker

1107
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,439
Speaker 1: on it. And during the practice round, I was like,

1108
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 1: what do I do? And my thought was like, just

1109
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 1: hit it at the bunker. You're not going to hit

1110
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,640
Speaker 1: it in it. It's a tiny little bunker. Now, Like,

1111
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 1: I hit it right at the bunker, hit a good

1112
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 1: T shot, went right into the bunker. Guess what With

1113
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:52,640
Speaker 1: a five percent rollback, I would have been short of

1114
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: it and I would have been fine, right, Like there

1115
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 1: you go, Like that would have made that hole easier

1116
01:08:58,120 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 1: for me.

1117
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's golf courses. Golf courses are not grids, right.

1118
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:07,479
Speaker 2: Golf courses are chaotic, and so the effects of hitting

1119
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 2: it shorter on certain holes or hitting up longer are

1120
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 2: not going to be perfectly predictable. I think. I think

1121
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 2: that's the point here. And then besides all of that, look,

1122
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:21,760
Speaker 2: if you're playing the role back ball, likelihood is the

1123
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 2: people you're competing against or your buddies are going to

1124
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 2: be doing the same thing. And so if you've made

1125
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:30,679
Speaker 2: gains over the past couple of years, if you've gone

1126
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:34,400
Speaker 2: and done the done the whips or the the the

1127
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:38,599
Speaker 2: stack system or yeah, super speed, yeah, super speed. Yeah,

1128
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:40,599
Speaker 2: if you've, if you if you've gone to the weight room,

1129
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 2: if you've, then that's great. You know. I think that

1130
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 2: the self improvement drive of golfers in general is really

1131
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 2: admirable and something that should be celebrated. If you've made

1132
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 2: those gains, this isn't taking it away because you're still

1133
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 2: going to have those gains relative to other people that

1134
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 2: you're playing against, and I feel like that's really what

1135
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 2: matters to us in the end. Yes, golf is a

1136
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 2: sport that's played against a course, but our perception of

1137
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 2: what a long drive is is really relative to what

1138
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 2: other people are doing. It always has been, and so

1139
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 2: I think that people are going to adjust to this

1140
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,760
Speaker 2: pretty quickly and it's going to be less painful than

1141
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 2: people think. But in that vein, it's kind of a

1142
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 2: bummer that it's so far off because people are just

1143
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 2: going to be worrying about it right up to twenty

1144
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 2: thirty or whenever it is that we're going to play

1145
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 2: this new ball, and you know, instead of just ripping

1146
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 2: the band aid off, where we're going to have to

1147
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 2: stew in it for a while. And so I'm girding

1148
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,799
Speaker 2: myself up for some of the complaining and the whining

1149
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 2: that's going to happen in the interim. But I really

1150
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 2: feel that when the day comes, it's going to be

1151
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 2: less of a cataclysm than some people seem to think

1152
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 2: it will be.

1153
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:59,719
Speaker 1: We're yeah, we're so far away, is the great thing.

1154
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 1: I will say. I think there's going to probably be

1155
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:07,559
Speaker 1: another rollback pod on this podcast once the official news

1156
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 1: apologies in advance. I think we I would love to

1157
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 1: dive into some things then that I because we don't

1158
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: have the entire you know, roll back the entire fact base.

1159
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 1: I'd love to dive into some things that I probably

1160
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 1: would like to see more of less of, like some

1161
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 1: some maybe, you know.

1162
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 2: I think we'd both like to see more than five percent.

1163
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 2: That's something we didn't really talk about, but five percent,

1164
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,479
Speaker 2: you know, it really isn't enough to address to some

1165
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 2: of the some of the problems that we talked about

1166
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 2: with sustainability and the financial expenditures of golf courses, yeah,

1167
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:45,720
Speaker 2: five percent.

1168
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 1: Is five years.

1169
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:51,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we'll see. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know.

1170
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,439
Speaker 2: It's uh, I wish it were ten percent or fifteen percent,

1171
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 2: But then then we would really be talking about the

1172
01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 2: game getting harder and so that that would be the issue.

1173
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 1: All right, Garrett, thanks for coming on. This was This

1174
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 1: will be the first of a few of these we got.

1175
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 1: We got six seven years to bat this around.

1176
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's good to be invited to be on

1177
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:12,720
Speaker 2: the podcast that I co host. It's always always a

1178
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 2: pleasure to talk to Andy.

1179
01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:17,600
Speaker 1: Well, we'll be back later this week with more us

1180
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:29,839
Speaker 1: always not going away. Thank you for listening to another

1181
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 1: edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. Thanks to Garrett for

1182
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:36,800
Speaker 1: joining in here on short notice, and big thanks to

1183
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:41,720
Speaker 1: Matt Rusis for getting this thing edited, produced and uploaded

1184
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:45,599
Speaker 1: in uh in short order. So he a quick reminder.

1185
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 1: We are we've been we've been knocking it out this

1186
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 1: whole year with Club TFB. I think there's stuff in

1187
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:55,599
Speaker 1: it for everybody. Uh. We did a little you know,

1188
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:58,840
Speaker 1: Garrett did a little roll back Q and A with

1189
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:02,160
Speaker 1: a bunch of architects who submitted how they would, you know,

1190
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 1: how their design philosophies would change with a five percent rollback.

1191
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 1: It was a fascinating thing to read through. So if

1192
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 1: you're interested in joining Club TF it's one hundred and

1193
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:15,720
Speaker 1: twenty dollars a year. You could do so at the

1194
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:19,559
Speaker 1: fridagy dot com slash membership. Thank you to everybody who's

1195
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,600
Speaker 1: supported us this year through that and in another you know,

1196
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:26,679
Speaker 1: the pro shop, the events, all the things. It really

1197
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 1: means a lot and it keeps our small shop a

1198
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:32,559
Speaker 1: hummet So thanks. We'll be back later this week with

1199
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:35,000
Speaker 1: another edition of the Fridagg Golf Podcast