Speaker 1: Hi, Catherine, Hi Chelsea, how are you Hi? I'm good.
Speaker 2: I'm staying at a hotel in Los Angeles while I
Speaker 2: record my audio book. I've been recording my audiobook for
Speaker 2: the last two days. Today should be the last day
Speaker 2: if you haven't pre ordered my book, I'll Have What
Speaker 2: She's Having. It comes out February twenty fifth. And I
Speaker 2: didn't smoke any weed or drink alcohol for three days
Speaker 2: leading up to my audiobook recording so that I could
Speaker 2: sound as crisp as possible. Because of so many of
Speaker 2: my fans listen to my audio books, especially for my
Speaker 2: last audiobook, so I really wanted to.
Speaker 1: Deliver on that. That is real commitment, Chelsea, That is commitment.
Speaker 1: I'm a professional.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know what, I love listening to a
Speaker 3: comedy like a book by a comedian read by the author.
Speaker 1: Like that's the way to go for those, right right?
Speaker 1: What else is happening? Updates? Updates? I'm moving back into
Speaker 1: my house tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Oh, the Critics' Choice Awards are now February seventh, Friday night,
Speaker 2: February seventh, so they've been moved to that date, so
Speaker 2: I will be hosting those. And the fires are they
Speaker 2: are almost contained.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say they are fully contained.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're mostly contained. It seems like they're
Speaker 3: not threatening homes much anymore. They're not covering it on
Speaker 3: the news at least, so not totally out. But now
Speaker 3: it's sort of like moving into what do we do
Speaker 3: now and rebuilding. Yeah, you know, something I heard from
Speaker 3: several people that I think is really important to remember
Speaker 3: is that, like, you know, we all give to our
Speaker 3: gofundmes and friends and people, you know, and Red Cross
Speaker 3: and all that good stuff. And I think people are
Speaker 3: going to be realizing what they need a little bit
Speaker 3: further down the line, like in a few months when
Speaker 3: they start the rebuilding process or start to sort of
Speaker 3: get life figured out, Like people may need more help
Speaker 3: than so like check in, check in on folks.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2: Our guest today is a certified relationship coach, author, teacher,
Speaker 2: and host of the podcast Jillian on Love. Her new
Speaker 2: book It Begins with You The Nine Hard Truths about
Speaker 2: Love that will Change Your Life. It's out now. Please
Speaker 2: welcome Jillian to Reki. Jillian, Welcome, Welcome to Dear Chelsea.
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: I love books, all books, and then I love self
Speaker 2: help books. Especially when I'm in the right mood and
Speaker 2: I'm in the mood for self help. So your new book,
Speaker 2: which is called It Begins with You, The Nine Hard
Speaker 2: Truths about Love that will Change Your Life, is out now.
Speaker 2: So the nine Hard Truths, I feel like some of
Speaker 2: them are obvious truths, and then some of them aren't
Speaker 2: so obvious.
Speaker 4: Would you agree with me? Yeah, I absolutely would.
Speaker 1: And which ones are not the obvious ones? In your opinion?
Speaker 5: It begins with you. I don't think is that obvious
Speaker 5: to people. It might be obvious to people who actually
Speaker 5: maybe do a lot of inner work, but I don't
Speaker 5: think it's that obvious to people. And I think what's
Speaker 5: not also not obvious is I don't know, the mind
Speaker 5: is a battlefield. I mean, I think people also know that,
Speaker 5: but don't really understand how that actually directly impacts.
Speaker 4: The quality of your relationships.
Speaker 5: Right that making peace with your parents might not be
Speaker 5: so obvious, What do you think is not?
Speaker 2: I think making peace with your parents is not as obvious.
Speaker 2: I think everyone realizes that that's necessary, even though I
Speaker 2: do believe it tugs at everybody. You know, everyone has
Speaker 2: their biggest problems or their parents, whether they know it
Speaker 2: or not. And then the other one that is, no
Speaker 2: one is coming to save you. Yeah, no one is
Speaker 2: coming to save which is bad news. Yeah, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: bad news, but it's important news for you to know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, no one is coming to save you.
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, I think that I know for
Speaker 5: me and everyone who I've worked with. It's not necessarily conscious,
Speaker 5: but a lot of people will say, well, once I
Speaker 5: meet that person, once I meet the one, then then yeah,
Speaker 5: then I'll feel okay, Then things will be okay, then
Speaker 5: my problems will go away. And even if they're not,
Speaker 5: even on some intellectual level, they know that's not true.
Speaker 5: There's so much emphasis on Stockham like this right person
Speaker 5: and when this right person comes into your life, everything's
Speaker 5: going to fall into place, and it's not true.
Speaker 1: But where did that begin?
Speaker 4: Do you think with romanticism?
Speaker 2: I mean it seems pretty obvious, but I'm like, who
Speaker 2: started it?
Speaker 1: Like, you know, because.
Speaker 2: You know, like centuries ago, I don't think there was
Speaker 2: this we roam we started as a modern age started
Speaker 2: to romanticize things because if you were really like an
Speaker 2: inca or someone who was like living on the land,
Speaker 2: you're not going to be like I.
Speaker 1: Have to meet the love of my life that trying
Speaker 1: to get.
Speaker 2: Fucking by no day know by you know, peeling potatoes
Speaker 2: that hopefully you found exactly. So I guess it is
Speaker 2: modern civilization that started to create and monetize it. Really
Speaker 2: yea nassism, because I mean, I've heard from so we
Speaker 2: hear so many people this idea. It's such a silly notion.
Speaker 2: It's like Disneyland esque. It's so someone's gonna come and
Speaker 2: you're a princess, and then when they see you, you
Speaker 2: become the princess. But you don't have to evolve, change
Speaker 2: or grow at all. It's just going to all be
Speaker 2: okay once they get once they find you absolutely and
Speaker 2: then what are they do? You realize how much power
Speaker 2: that gives another person.
Speaker 5: Also get yes, because if you give someone the power
Speaker 5: to make you, if you think someone else is going
Speaker 5: to make you happy, they also have the power to
Speaker 5: make you miserable because you're putting all the emphasis on them.
Speaker 5: It's all how they make you feel. And fulfillment is
Speaker 5: an inside job. Like someone who comes into your life.
Speaker 5: I really believe that the whole point of a relationship
Speaker 5: is to make life a little bit easier and a
Speaker 5: little bit better. There's no point in being a relationship
Speaker 5: with someone that makes your life more difficult, and a
Speaker 5: lot of people put up with that. But the reality
Speaker 5: is is that you know, the real work begins once
Speaker 5: you're in the relationship. And everyone thinks, well, once I
Speaker 5: find that person, like that's actually you know, they think
Speaker 5: that the work.
Speaker 2: Is really find it, But well, the work with another
Speaker 2: person happens once you find the relationship. But the work
Speaker 2: you could be doing the work all the time on
Speaker 2: yourself to prepare for a relationship, absolutely absolutely, which is
Speaker 2: like you know, because right, so both things are true.
Speaker 5: Both things are true, but also you can do a
Speaker 5: lot of work on yourself to prepare yourself for the relationship,
Speaker 5: which I always think you should be preparing, But you're
Speaker 5: never going to be fully prepared for what is going
Speaker 5: to come up in you when you're actually in the relationship, because.
Speaker 2: Then why would you even exist on earth if you
Speaker 2: were here to have no problems.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's not a real thing. And I think that
Speaker 5: people don't really understand. I know, I didn't really understand
Speaker 5: what it means to actually to love that love is
Speaker 5: a practice, love is a verb, Love.
Speaker 4: Isn't just a feeling.
Speaker 5: And I think that what's embedded in this whole notion
Speaker 5: of the one in romanticism is that it's just this feeling,
Speaker 5: and so it should be easy and this person should
Speaker 5: just make me feel great and I should feel great
Speaker 5: when I'm around them. When the reality is to be
Speaker 5: in a relationship long term, you have to wake up
Speaker 5: every day and make a choice to show up, to
Speaker 5: make a choice to love this person, to make a
Speaker 5: choice to communicate. And the more complicated you are, or
Speaker 5: the more selfish you are, or the more ill equipped
Speaker 5: you are to understand what it is to mean to
Speaker 5: love someone, the more problems you're going to have in
Speaker 5: a relationship.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I also think that when you are talking
Speaker 2: about relationship and romanticizing that this ideology because I definitely
Speaker 2: felt it growing up, like Oh, I'm going to meet
Speaker 2: the one and we're going to have the greatest love
Speaker 2: story of all time. And then I started to get
Speaker 2: older and I'm like, wouldn't it be fun to have
Speaker 2: a lot of love stories instead of just one and
Speaker 2: putting all of your eggs into one basket. And the
Speaker 2: way that our society, specifically America, I mean, I think
Speaker 2: it's a global thing but it's very American to be like, oh,
Speaker 2: there's so much emphasis on spending your life with another person.
Speaker 1: That's a really long time.
Speaker 3: Longer.
Speaker 2: They say, if you can live through the next twelve
Speaker 2: or fifteen years, you can live until you're one hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty. I already talked about how I don't want that,
Speaker 2: and you can't afford that, and what am.
Speaker 1: I going to be doing stand up when I'm one
Speaker 1: hundred and eighteen years old, Like fuck, I don't want that.
Speaker 2: But because we're extending lives and everything, like it's just
Speaker 2: of course, it's a beautiful idea and concept, but it's
Speaker 2: the reality of it is just so silly. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: one in I don't know. I don't know what the
Speaker 2: stats are. Do you about how many couples make it
Speaker 2: past fifty years and are happy?
Speaker 4: I don't love.
Speaker 5: I actually don't know the stats. But I think that
Speaker 5: if you're going to be with someone for a really
Speaker 5: long time, let's say, let's just say even over ten years,
Speaker 5: twenty years, thirty years, you're going to have many relationships.
Speaker 5: Within the same relationship, You're going to have many if
Speaker 5: you're married to someone, it's going to be many marriages.
Speaker 5: So these are not my words, but Esther prel will say,
Speaker 5: you know, some people will have many different relationships with
Speaker 5: different people, and some people will have many different relationships
Speaker 5: with the same person. And I think that if you
Speaker 5: want to commit to someone long term, then you have
Speaker 5: to understand that fundamentally, that it is a choice. That
Speaker 5: one thing that is absolutely guaranteed in life is that
Speaker 5: nothing is permanent, right, constant We're in constant flux, and
Speaker 5: there's constant change. So to love someone long term is
Speaker 5: to be able to you have to be able to
Speaker 5: accept that there's going to be change. And I think
Speaker 5: fundamentally human beings that we really struggle with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because changes, change sounds scarier than it sounds like
Speaker 2: you're losing something.
Speaker 4: Yes, so many people, right, change they associate with grief.
Speaker 1: Why do you have to change? That's a loss?
Speaker 2: Change can also like putting something away and getting something
Speaker 2: else in return, doesn't mean you're losing anything. In fact,
Speaker 2: it can mean quite the opposite, that are gaining. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: so we have these it's like we've gotten this these
Speaker 2: almost energies around these terms that have gotten completely out
Speaker 2: of control. The one romanticism, you know, change, change, is good.
Speaker 4: You complete me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you complete me? What a load of shit.
Speaker 1: My dog completes me.
Speaker 4: My dog completes me too.
Speaker 2: Please come as close to it completing me as anybody
Speaker 2: else has.
Speaker 1: So what's your situation. Are you married?
Speaker 5: No? So I was married, and the relations the marriage
Speaker 5: was actually really really painful, and how it ended was
Speaker 5: extremely painful.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about that story. Okay, yeah, that's pretty
Speaker 2: That was hard to read. I can't imagine it. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: I mean it's a good start to a book. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: yeah gets you in.
Speaker 4: He gets you in because he hooks you. Yeah.
Speaker 5: So when I started seeing him, I thought when we
Speaker 5: got married, I was thirty eight, and I thought, well,
Speaker 5: you know, I'm older, I'm wiser, I've been working with
Speaker 5: people for so many years. I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 5: But boy did I not know what I was doing.
Speaker 5: And so when our relationship leading up to marriage, I
Speaker 5: always say it was about ninety percent good because we
Speaker 5: were actually very compatible and we got along really well
Speaker 5: in many different ways. But ten percent was very problematic.
Speaker 5: Now people will say, well, no relationship is perfect. Yes,
Speaker 5: although that ten percent was extremely significant. So that when
Speaker 5: we got married, then the ten percent became the ninety percent,
Speaker 5: and the ninety percent then became the ten percent. And
Speaker 5: so people think. Another thing that people don't understand. They
Speaker 5: think that, oh, the once we get married, everything will
Speaker 5: be okay. No, no, no, no, your problems get mag get
Speaker 5: magnified once you're married and so.
Speaker 2: And then once you have children, they magnify again, and
Speaker 2: they magnify again.
Speaker 1: And this is from someone who's never been married or
Speaker 1: ever have children. And I know this to be true.
Speaker 5: And you know, yeah, because I'm sure you have many
Speaker 5: people in your life who are married with kids.
Speaker 1: And I'm psychic, and you're telling me when I look
Speaker 1: at a couple of what's going on?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, it's true, it's true. But it's interesting.
Speaker 2: I've never heard of put this way, the ten and
Speaker 2: ninety flip.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So that was and it's because of a lot of
Speaker 5: different things, red flags that I didn't see and didn't understand,
Speaker 5: Like we didn't have certain conversations that were incredibly important.
Speaker 5: There were certain things that I weren't that I wasn't
Speaker 5: saying because I was so afraid to.
Speaker 4: Rock the boat.
Speaker 1: And about having children.
Speaker 5: Part of it was about having children. Part of it
Speaker 5: was just about certain things that upset me in the relationship,
Speaker 5: things that you just need to talk about, you know,
Speaker 5: you need to sit down and have a conversation about.
Speaker 5: But I you know, there was a very and I
Speaker 5: write about in the book, there was a very significant
Speaker 5: night that should have been a deal breaker for me,
Speaker 5: or should have at least been a very serious conversation
Speaker 5: that I sat down and had with him, But for me,
Speaker 5: it was more just like, let me suppress how horrible
Speaker 5: that felt, because I don't want to face the possibility
Speaker 5: of this not being the one and this is that
Speaker 5: is something that millions of people do.
Speaker 1: And what was the incident? Can you tell us? Yeah?
Speaker 5: I mean I talk about it in the book, but
Speaker 5: let me share about it a little bit here because
Speaker 5: it's important. Like we went to this event in New
Speaker 5: York City called Sleep No More.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've been there. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: went there.
Speaker 5: So you know that when you're there, they put they
Speaker 5: give you masks, and everyone have the same mask, and
Speaker 5: then they separate you from who from whoever you went
Speaker 5: there with. And he was on the way there, he
Speaker 5: was acting weird, he was shut down. I had no
Speaker 5: idea what was going on. That was something that was
Speaker 5: very familiar from my father. My father would shut down
Speaker 5: a lot, and then you would never know what his
Speaker 5: mood would be.
Speaker 4: So I didn't.
Speaker 5: Realize because I had had, you know, my prior to him,
Speaker 5: I'd had some really beautiful relationships where like the trauma
Speaker 5: from my past was not ignited, but this one was right.
Speaker 4: So there's no What do you.
Speaker 1: Think about that though?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 4: Why is it?
Speaker 1: Sometimes? I mean, if the whole point of being here
Speaker 1: is to learn and to.
Speaker 2: Grow, Yeah, so when you're in a relationship that isn't
Speaker 2: bringing something up, what's the point of that?
Speaker 1: Or maybe you're there for the other person.
Speaker 5: I don't think you should be in I don't think
Speaker 5: that being in a relationship that is constantly triggering your
Speaker 5: suffering and your past is a good relationship.
Speaker 4: I don't think that should be constant.
Speaker 5: I think if that's happening and two people are like, whoa,
Speaker 5: this is what's happening, and then they can work on
Speaker 5: it and keel together, that's wonderful And that's definitely a possibility.
Speaker 5: Why in the past was I in a relationship that
Speaker 5: wasn't reminiscent of my relationship my trauma with my father,
Speaker 5: and then later, because context matters. It matters where you
Speaker 5: are in your life, it matters how old you are,
Speaker 5: what other stressors are in your life. Context matters.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 5: It's like, you could be anxiously very anxious in one
Speaker 5: relationship and not anxious in another, and part of that
Speaker 5: has to do with who you're with. And it's like, oh, well,
Speaker 5: why were you attracted to the person who treats you
Speaker 5: like shit in one stage of your life but not
Speaker 5: in another? But what was going on in that stage
Speaker 5: of your life?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right right, okay, so back to sleep no more?
Speaker 5: So back to sleep no more? So he was acting weird.
Speaker 5: I had no idea. I went to the familiar thing
Speaker 5: of just sort of like, what's wrong, And then you
Speaker 5: know he's saying nothing's wrong, and so I'm all anxious
Speaker 5: as opposed to something. What I would do today is
Speaker 5: maybe not in that moment, but I would have had
Speaker 5: a conversation with him like something was definitely off. I
Speaker 5: don't like how it feels. We need to talk about it,
Speaker 5: because my standard is if you can't talk about what's
Speaker 5: going on inside of you, we're not going to be
Speaker 5: in a relationship. Maybe you know, I'm also sensitive to timing.
Speaker 5: It's not going to be all in my timing that
Speaker 5: we have the conversation. But if you can't have a
Speaker 5: conversation about something that's bothering you and you're just going
Speaker 5: to shut down, you don't have a chance with me.
Speaker 5: Right But back then, all I could think was fear.
Speaker 5: So we go to sleep no more and we're separated.
Speaker 5: But there were many times throughout the course of the night.
Speaker 5: You know, you recognize even with the mask, you know
Speaker 5: who your partner is, you know what they're wearing, you
Speaker 5: know their body. And when I would see him, I
Speaker 5: would be like, oh, yes, now we're going to reunite,
Speaker 5: and he would act like he didn't see me. And
Speaker 5: then I don't know what was going on with him
Speaker 5: that night, and it just sort of blew over and
Speaker 5: I never addressed it again. And that was very very
Speaker 5: significant because that was mean and it was very rejecting.
Speaker 5: I mean, it was very weird. But it's not about him.
Speaker 5: It's about me. It's about the fact that I.
Speaker 4: Didn't say anything.
Speaker 5: It's about like, what was going on with me that
Speaker 5: I was too afraid to bring this up. So it's
Speaker 5: really I really want people to stop blaming the other
Speaker 5: and to look within and be like, what's my pattern here?
Speaker 4: What is it? Get curious about yourself.
Speaker 1: So now, so you do a lot of couples counseling.
Speaker 5: So when I first embarked in on this journey of
Speaker 5: helping people in their relationships, I worked with hundreds of
Speaker 5: couples because when we when he and I went to
Speaker 5: couple's therapy, was terrible, and I thought there has to
Speaker 5: be another way.
Speaker 1: Well, it was so bad about it.
Speaker 4: No one was holding anyone accountable.
Speaker 5: You know, when I work with people, and when I
Speaker 5: consider a good therapist is someone who's holding you accountable
Speaker 5: and being like, look, this is what's going on, and
Speaker 5: really helping us understand what's underneath it all. But holding accountable.
Speaker 5: It's not about like let me hold your hand and
Speaker 5: let me hold.
Speaker 4: Your hand and play. I agree, you know.
Speaker 5: It can't be like you have to be compassionate, but
Speaker 5: you also have to be you have to tell the truth, yes,
Speaker 5: as a counselor coach therapist.
Speaker 1: Otherwise it becomes a form of enabling.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then no one's getting better. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't understand that approach and I don't like it
Speaker 2: because yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I thought there had to be another way,
Speaker 5: and so I really wanted to help couples.
Speaker 4: And then I was.
Speaker 5: Like, well, you know, I really like working with individuals too,
Speaker 5: people who are heartbroken because I was devastated and I
Speaker 5: rebuilt my life, so I like helping people rebuild their
Speaker 5: life after devastation. I liked working with I was like, Wow,
Speaker 5: so much of this is who you pick. It's who
Speaker 5: you choose, and so many people are choosing terrible partners
Speaker 5: or try or going out into dating pool feeling desperate.
Speaker 5: Choose me, pick me, pick me, pick me, Let me
Speaker 5: help some individuals. So I like helping people sort of
Speaker 5: like in every area and.
Speaker 2: Journey in every area, but do you have rehiphip not
Speaker 2: on every area, in every stage of where they are
Speaker 2: in their relationship, Okay, And also helping people who are
Speaker 2: really like looking for love.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah I love that. Yeah I love helping people
Speaker 4: look for love.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well who wouldn't love that? Yeah that's spreading love?
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely wonderful. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to when you're the way you're talking
Speaker 2: about it just makes me think, you know, everywhere, every
Speaker 2: person is in a different place on their quote unquote journey,
Speaker 2: and some people aren't even on a fucking journey, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, they're just like whatever. So it's
Speaker 2: like when people kind of cross paths. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: not one of those people who thinks everything happens for
Speaker 2: a reason, but I think many things do.
Speaker 1: And sometimes it really has nothing to do with.
Speaker 2: You, Like you're not the A character and every and
Speaker 2: every story you're not you're the A character, and you're yeah,
Speaker 2: sometimes you're here for other people.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: So I just always find it interesting where people cross
Speaker 2: paths because it's like you also, like if two people
Speaker 2: come together and there is no friction and there is
Speaker 2: just like la la la la, la la la.
Speaker 1: That sounds suspicious too.
Speaker 2: You want to be unearthing, like you want to be
Speaker 2: looking within and improving and without friction, and there's no
Speaker 2: reason to do that absolutely.
Speaker 5: And also what causes chemistry ignites chemistry between two people,
Speaker 5: it's like differences and also whending nights chemistry between two people,
Speaker 5: it's like, oh, you're your own person, and so am
Speaker 5: I let's like rumble a little bit with this. But
Speaker 5: to what degree? It should not be chaos? It should
Speaker 5: not be chaos. If there's chaos, something's wrong.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, Okay, I just want to read a couple
Speaker 2: more of these. Just less is not the same thing
Speaker 2: as love. And also, like I think I wrote this
Speaker 2: in my new book that something about you know, don't
Speaker 2: confuse missing somebody, you.
Speaker 1: Know, with belonging with someone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, right, Like those two things kind of sound familiar.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 5: I mean I think so when we meet someone and
Speaker 5: we're attracted, we can lose our minds a little bit,
Speaker 5: you know, And that's oftentimes when we throw our standards
Speaker 5: out the window and we think, oh, this person has
Speaker 5: to be the person, and we think, oh, they are
Speaker 5: the person, And a lot of people what they do
Speaker 5: is they move really fast, They play house with each
Speaker 5: other even though they're strangers. And again it's that feeling
Speaker 5: of I would do anything for this person. This person's amazing.
Speaker 5: And what we what a lot of people do is
Speaker 5: unconsciously they put each other on pedestals. And what happens
Speaker 5: is once reels starts to happen, So once the honeymoon
Speaker 5: starts to once the novelty wears off.
Speaker 1: When is this usually let's discuss that.
Speaker 5: I think it's anywhere between three to six to three
Speaker 5: to six months to a year, but usually three to
Speaker 5: six six months once the novelty wears off and there
Speaker 5: might be like, you know, an argument.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 2: I just want everyone to put it on. Put it
Speaker 2: on the record that Doug just ran into the room
Speaker 2: when you said three to six to nine months to
Speaker 2: a year, because we are coming.
Speaker 4: Up on a year, and that it's going to be
Speaker 4: of owning him having him.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I don't consider him him. I don't consider
Speaker 1: him to be owned by me.
Speaker 2: I guess him to be my partner. I get it
Speaker 2: on sexual and romantic. I get it on romantic, let's
Speaker 2: not be sexual about it. But yeah, but yes, okay,
Speaker 2: because because I heard someone say something like two years,
Speaker 2: I'm like, no one has to your honeymoon.
Speaker 5: Like yeah, yeah, I can't think but a year but
Speaker 5: a year maybe, but like but you know, changes, so
Speaker 5: you know, that's when the masks come off and we
Speaker 5: kind of get real. And what happens is so this
Speaker 5: ties into the one we meet someone we think they're amazing,
Speaker 5: and what we're doing on an unconscious level is that
Speaker 5: we're projecting our ideal onto them. Oh, they they're perfect partner,
Speaker 5: they're perfect me, they're perfect for me, and then as
Speaker 5: soon as reel comes up, you know, our flaws come up,
Speaker 5: conflict comes up, things that are not so comfortable. Then
Speaker 5: what a lot of people do, and I've done this too,
Speaker 5: is like, oh wait, you're not who I thought you were,
Speaker 5: Like you're not perfect again. They would never admit to
Speaker 5: this because it's not so much like conscious, but it's
Speaker 5: like you're not perfec Anyone who's on the pedestal ultimately
Speaker 5: becomes the fallen hero, right, It's like you're gonna come
Speaker 5: off because the realness is gonna come So you know,
Speaker 5: once the novelty wears off, that's when you know if
Speaker 5: you really have what it takes to make it with something.
Speaker 5: Some people they are so addicted to that lusty high
Speaker 5: because they don't understand the reality of what it is
Speaker 5: to love someone. Yeah that really, it really is a choice,
Speaker 5: and it's a verb, and it's a practice, and it's
Speaker 5: an intentional practice, and it means you have to have
Speaker 5: difficult conversations and it means you have to have a
Speaker 5: lot of tolerance. I don't want you to tolerate bullshit,
Speaker 5: but you have to know where your limits are. Because
Speaker 5: no one is perfect. No one is perfect. We are
Speaker 5: all very complicated, complex creatures with a lot of nuance.
Speaker 5: And I think a lot of people, myself included, walk
Speaker 5: this earth not knowing where their limits are for what
Speaker 5: is t They're either expecting perfection or they're tolerating a
Speaker 5: little too much.
Speaker 7: Sense.
Speaker 2: Before we take a break, I just want to ask
Speaker 2: you one life question back to sleep No More. Did
Speaker 2: you ever finally bring that up to him at the
Speaker 2: end of the relationship or is that something you discovered
Speaker 2: through therapy to that night that was a red flag.
Speaker 4: I didn't discover it through therapy.
Speaker 5: I discovered on my own, in my own self reflection,
Speaker 5: And no, I never brought it up to him, And
Speaker 5: I think it was just the sort of cathartic writing about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, we're going to take a break and we'll
Speaker 2: be right back with Gillian Tareki.
Speaker 1: And we're back with Jillian. Okay, So we have some callers,
Speaker 1: we have some letters. What do we have?
Speaker 3: Well, we'll start with our callers today.
Speaker 1: It's always exciting. I love taking callers. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 8: So.
Speaker 3: Dusty is an interesting situation because he had written in
Speaker 3: about a recent X about a year ago and followed
Speaker 3: up with him recently, and he has a question about
Speaker 3: that X. But he's somebody who's really taking a responsibility
Speaker 3: for himself and his actions. And you'll hear a little
Speaker 3: bit about that in the email.
Speaker 1: So did we already answer a question from him before?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 3: Oh huh, I had just like seen his previous question. Okay,
Speaker 3: So he says, Dear Chelsea, to begin, I want to
Speaker 3: tell you how much fun I've had listening to your podcast.
Speaker 3: I followed you Chelsea since I first tuned into Chelsea
Speaker 3: Lately in junior high. I'm newly sober and just celebrated
Speaker 3: six months of sobriety. I left my previous relationship just
Speaker 3: over a year ago. It was hot, heavy, fast, and
Speaker 3: I was still an absolute mess for the entirety of it.
Speaker 3: Things ended up going south for us. I've taken accountability
Speaker 3: for the things I had done while with him, and
Speaker 3: as he has done the same in return. He and
Speaker 3: I have a great relationship now as friends. We've been
Speaker 3: in communication daily and he's a major source of support
Speaker 3: for me since moving halfway across the country and getting
Speaker 3: sober and working the program, and now I find myself
Speaker 3: leaps ahead of where I was in terms of confidence
Speaker 3: self awareness, honesty with myself and others, and my ability
Speaker 3: to put myself out there again. I've started dating again,
Speaker 3: and this is where things seem to be a little
Speaker 3: confusing for me. As friends do we chat about dating. However,
Speaker 3: he started asking very intimate questions about my sex life
Speaker 3: and wanting to know what was happening with my dates
Speaker 3: when look as a friend, I know what it's like
Speaker 3: to be curious, supportive, and excited for friends when they're
Speaker 3: going out and having fun, hot, horny times after a
Speaker 3: long hiatus, but it obviously feels different when it's coming
Speaker 3: from someone used to wear a ring for So my
Speaker 3: question is how do I find balance and what to
Speaker 3: share and what not to share. I feel turned off
Speaker 3: by the level of curiosity he seems to be having,
Speaker 3: and I can also tell when he's trying too hard
Speaker 3: to appear unbothered.
Speaker 1: Help Dusty.
Speaker 2: Hi, Dusty, Hi, Dusty Bye. This is our special guest today,
Speaker 2: Jilly and Tareki. She just wrote a book about love.
Speaker 4: How are you.
Speaker 7: Hi.
Speaker 4: Nice to meet you, so nice to meet too.
Speaker 1: Congratulations on your six months sobriety Mark. That's awesome.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Dusty, Dusty, I.
Speaker 1: Said, congratulations on your six months sobriety, Mark, I thought
Speaker 1: you were saying, oh, call him okay, Mark, Dusty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well this has got that no, keep it in. I
Speaker 1: think I think that's good.
Speaker 6: How are you doing well? Thank you?
Speaker 1: Sounds like do you feel like he still has feelings
Speaker 1: for you?
Speaker 8: So that was kind of my thought initially. So I
Speaker 8: this whole time, I just started dating again, probably I
Speaker 8: don't know, a month and a half ago now, so,
Speaker 8: and he and I broke up over a year ago now,
Speaker 8: so I guess like we hadn't talked about that. Like
Speaker 8: I said, we talk all the time. So whenever I
Speaker 8: did start seeing someone or I was going on dates
Speaker 8: and this and that, the way he responded it just
Speaker 8: like his voice got really high pitched and like he
Speaker 8: just seemed like overly excited, and I just felt like
Speaker 8: it was disingenuine. So I was like, it made me
Speaker 8: feel awkward because I felt like he felt awkward.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and he was trying to be supportive.
Speaker 8: And I just was like, oh, maybe this isn't actually
Speaker 8: that great.
Speaker 6: So does that make sense?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I actually have a question for you. So, congratulations
Speaker 4: on sobriety.
Speaker 6: Thanks, thank you?
Speaker 4: Are you are you your yes? Yeah, exactly. Are you
Speaker 4: in a program. Are you in AA or anything like that? Yes, okay, Okay,
Speaker 4: I have.
Speaker 6: A sponsor and I'm working a program.
Speaker 5: And what does your sponsors say about dating only five
Speaker 5: to six months into sobriety.
Speaker 8: So the group that I'm in is pretty lucy goosey
Speaker 8: about it, Okay. I would say it's kind of just
Speaker 8: based on I think, like situational individual, person by person.
Speaker 6: Okay, there is kind of that blanket rule.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you probably know this of like don't date within
Speaker 8: your first year. Yeah, but with my with my group,
Speaker 8: it's not.
Speaker 4: It's not it's more individual, it's more individual.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And are you looking for what kind of partnership are
Speaker 5: you looking for? Are you looking for long term partnership?
Speaker 5: Are you looking like? What what do you want?
Speaker 8: So, because I am six months sober, everything does feel
Speaker 8: very new. So right now what I'm looking for is
Speaker 8: just I think to find myself figure it out, like in dating,
Speaker 8: like I'm wanting to fill I think more comfortable with it.
Speaker 8: I obviously would like to find somebody that I could
Speaker 8: develop a long term relationship with, but I want to
Speaker 8: enjoy the process.
Speaker 7: Of Yeah, So right now, that's.
Speaker 8: That's like number one is just enjoying who I meet
Speaker 8: and seeing what happens.
Speaker 2: That's the attitude everyone should have when you day. That's
Speaker 2: like perfect, it's like a renewal you get you know.
Speaker 8: Absolutely yeah, and it feels so new, you know, like
Speaker 8: doing everything sober, sober dates, you know, blah blah blah,
Speaker 8: but very different. So it's just it's I'm figuring it out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So what's one thing. I'm sure there's a few things,
Speaker 5: but if you were to like name one or two
Speaker 5: things that you really want to do differently as a
Speaker 5: sober person as it relates to.
Speaker 6: Dating, I realized that my.
Speaker 8: Like I used to fill up my cup kind of
Speaker 8: with who I was with, yeah, solely, and kind of
Speaker 8: lost my own kind of identity in the relationship. And
Speaker 8: I had so many expectations I would attach myself well,
Speaker 8: you know, I'd like cling on for dear life to
Speaker 8: that person, and it was really unhealthy. And so now
Speaker 8: I think, really it's just about finding myself.
Speaker 6: Can you ask the question again? I'm so sorry.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, you're doing great, great question.
Speaker 1: It's a very good question.
Speaker 2: So it's worth taking the time to like answer it
Speaker 2: and think about it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think you're I think you were really
Speaker 5: you're onto something. I wanted to know what you wanted
Speaker 5: to do. Differently as a sober person as it relates
Speaker 5: to dating.
Speaker 8: It's kind of like a slogan. But I want to
Speaker 8: have a relationship and not take a hostage. I think
Speaker 8: would be like primary, like I want to have my
Speaker 8: own identity outside of the relationship, have healthy attachment style,
Speaker 8: healthy habits, and just like it's just my goal to
Speaker 8: to enjoy it for I think, like how.
Speaker 6: How it is in like reality and in truth?
Speaker 8: And instead of like creating a like how do I explain,
Speaker 8: like I wasn't prepared for follow up questions? No, I
Speaker 8: instead of kind of creating a narrative of what I
Speaker 8: think it should be in my head, I want to
Speaker 8: enjoy it for what it is and it kind of
Speaker 8: release control of how I used to try to maintain control.
Speaker 4: If that makes sense, It all makes sense. I think
Speaker 4: that's beautiful.
Speaker 5: What are you doing in your life currently to bolster
Speaker 5: up your sense of self so that you're not looking
Speaker 5: for your for yourself only in another person?
Speaker 8: Well, I mean I think everything has changed in my life.
Speaker 8: Number one would be, you know, I'm hitting meetings, I'm
Speaker 8: working with my sponsor, and I'm working my program and
Speaker 8: that is really the most important thing for me right now.
Speaker 6: That's unique to me.
Speaker 8: I've learned how to be a better friend to those
Speaker 8: people I have in my life. So I feel like
Speaker 8: really nice, like re getting to know like a couple
Speaker 8: of these people who have been so close to me
Speaker 8: for so long, and like I realized that there were
Speaker 8: like some blocks between us that are kind of going
Speaker 8: away or like we're kind of redefining our friendship now.
Speaker 8: So I have other things, you know, Yoga is huge
Speaker 8: for me. I started doing yoga every single day. I
Speaker 8: fell in love with it.
Speaker 4: Good for ye too. Yeah.
Speaker 8: So just stuff like that is kind of I think
Speaker 8: what I'm doing for myself.
Speaker 2: But as it relates to the AX, which is the
Speaker 2: original question, right, like what are you supposed to.
Speaker 4: Do about his ex? It's the X, right, It's not
Speaker 4: a new guy, right.
Speaker 6: It's the X. Yeah.
Speaker 8: So he was very supportive of me this whole past
Speaker 8: what thirteen fourteen months since we broke up, he's been
Speaker 8: He was really supportive for me in the beginning right
Speaker 8: after the breakup, because I was so attached to him
Speaker 8: that it was like, I don't even think I would
Speaker 8: have been able to go a day without talking to him.
Speaker 8: It was intense and I was having panic attacks all
Speaker 8: the time. Wasn't sober yet. And with that, I do
Speaker 8: feel like this sense of anytime I kind of want
Speaker 8: to create a boundary or anything, or like have like
Speaker 8: a conversation where it's just really honest, because we had
Speaker 8: issues with honesty when we were together. It's part of
Speaker 8: the reason why we're not together. But as a friend,
Speaker 8: I think he's amazing. But I think whenever I try
Speaker 8: to have like a boundary set in place, I struggle
Speaker 8: with that, and I struggle.
Speaker 6: With in my head.
Speaker 8: It's like I want my friendships to be limitless and
Speaker 8: like us not have like blocks with each other, like
Speaker 8: have things we can't say to each other.
Speaker 6: I want it to be very open.
Speaker 8: But like with him in this situation, it does feel
Speaker 8: like maybe a temporary boundary or something. But it's like
Speaker 8: I have guilt whenever I do that. I'm kind of
Speaker 8: rambling a lot here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know we're asking you a lot of questions,
Speaker 2: asking you a lot of questions like an actual it's
Speaker 2: like almost like we have like one therapy session. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I'm into it, So don't worry about it because
Speaker 2: you have some like you've done so much for yourself
Speaker 2: and you're so honest and so forthcoming. Very I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm sitting watching an admiration of you, how much you've
Speaker 2: done with your life and how self aware you've become.
Speaker 2: That's really awesome. And I think everyone has trouble. I'm
Speaker 2: just going to jump in here. Obviously Julianne interrupted me
Speaker 2: when you see fit, but everyone has a hard time
Speaker 2: creating boundaries. I totally have a hard time creating boundaries.
Speaker 2: It's like I never even thought of it. It's like
Speaker 2: a boundary, Oh I have to create Oh I forgot,
Speaker 2: Like I never even knew I had to do that.
Speaker 2: But when the opportunity arises to create one, that's your
Speaker 2: opportunity to do it gently and with love and actually
Speaker 2: attribute it to your own self work. All this work
Speaker 2: I'm doing on myself, I'm learning that we actually don't
Speaker 2: have a healthy boundary around this. So while this is
Speaker 2: kind of strange to have to say to you, I
Speaker 2: think for the betterment and the strength of our friendship,
Speaker 2: like we're just not going to talk about dating for
Speaker 2: a while, or you know, whatever you want to you know,
Speaker 2: whatever time frame you want to build it around. But
Speaker 2: I think if you guys have remained friends for this
Speaker 2: period of time after that relationship and went through all
Speaker 2: that stuff together, he's only going to respect you from
Speaker 2: creating a bounce. Maybe not right in that moment, but
Speaker 2: over time.
Speaker 1: He will respect that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would agree with that.
Speaker 2: And I think it's an opportunity for you to create
Speaker 2: a new pattern, like with with not just him. You know,
Speaker 2: you may have to create a boundary with the next
Speaker 2: person you date or another person in your life. But
Speaker 2: it's very good to understand how that's done and to
Speaker 2: do it effectively, sober and with grace.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's okay that this is very uncomfortable, Like
Speaker 5: you're learning something new, you're creating new patterns, and it
Speaker 5: is going to be uncomfortable and it's going to feel
Speaker 5: awkward and you're going to have a lot of resistance
Speaker 5: to it, and that's part of the process. But it's also,
Speaker 5: as you know, is so important, right, So, and you
Speaker 5: can be really forthcoming about it and be like this
Speaker 5: is really hard for me, but you know this, I
Speaker 5: just is this is part of what I'm working on,
Speaker 5: and this is what feels right for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and as you said, you know, the pitch of
Speaker 3: his voice went up, and he felt a little awkward,
Speaker 3: like it might be a little bit of a relief
Speaker 3: for him to not have have to go there with
Speaker 3: you and like talk about those things specifically.
Speaker 6: So, oh my god, the questions he asked. I was like,
Speaker 6: why would you ask me that?
Speaker 8: Like I was like, that's a lot, you know, yeah,
Speaker 8: to be curious about anyway.
Speaker 1: Okay, well I think you got the message right I did.
Speaker 6: I appreciate you guys so much.
Speaker 7: I appreciate you too.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Does this room look cozy? I still have
Speaker 1: to figure very cold good.
Speaker 2: I have to figure out we need a different plant.
Speaker 2: This plant blocks the bookcase. So anyway, send us a plant. Okay,
Speaker 2: thank you?
Speaker 6: Yeah, medium at work. That's about it.
Speaker 1: So we'll ask the next caller.
Speaker 2: All right, well thanks, thanks, otherwise known as Mark. So
Speaker 2: didn't he seem like he was in great shape?
Speaker 1: He did.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but you sound you mean a great shape emotionally, yeah,
Speaker 5: like very self aware, very like he's doing the work.
Speaker 1: He is really I respect that one hundred percent.
Speaker 5: And he was very honest and he had a lot
Speaker 5: of again awareness about what his pattern was. So yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm and he's doing it. He's got the sponsor, he's
Speaker 5: in the program, so that's great and I'm rooting for him.
Speaker 3: It really seemed like he's somebody who's taking a responsibility
Speaker 3: for himself. Even looking at the email he sent a
Speaker 3: year ago, was you know, which admittedly he wrote drunk
Speaker 3: and he was like it was much more like sort
Speaker 3: of finger point, whereas the eemail is all like I've
Speaker 3: re taken I've taken responsibility for my stuff. And I
Speaker 3: just thought he was such a cutie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, such a cuty Yeah. Well, our next caller is Carly.
Speaker 3: She is thirty two, and this one sort of coincidentally
Speaker 3: also has a sobriety theme, but really just a coincidence there.
Speaker 3: I'd love to talk to her about some of her
Speaker 3: online dating stuff as well. So she says, Dear Chelsea,
Speaker 3: I'm thirty two, female and on the apps. Unfortunately I
Speaker 3: can't drink for some low key medical reasons, but I
Speaker 3: truly still enjoy going out to bars, parties, wineries, et cetera.
Speaker 3: When a guy on the dating apps asks me out,
Speaker 3: I always disclose that I can't drink. Something like that
Speaker 3: sounds great, just so you know, I don't really drink,
Speaker 3: but I still like to do drinks and go out
Speaker 3: and I'm totally cool if you drink three times in
Speaker 3: the last month. I've said this and the guy says, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's totally cool. Let's go on out on XT day.
Speaker 3: Then XT day comes no confirmation of the date, and
Speaker 3: they are radio silent when I reach out, and they
Speaker 3: usually unmatch me the next day. I prefer to disclose this,
Speaker 3: but many of my friends keep telling me not to.
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 3: How should I handle this? I feel like it's a
Speaker 3: lie biomission to just show up on a date without
Speaker 3: disclosing I can't drink, but these stupid men out here
Speaker 3: seem incapable of understanding that I truly don't care if
Speaker 3: they're drinking. Obviously, I'm not going to be hooking up
Speaker 3: with a drunk man while sober. But can we not
Speaker 3: even get out on the first date to see if
Speaker 3: we're compatible at all?
Speaker 1: Carly?
Speaker 4: You know what I think? I think? Remove? I think, Hi, Carly, hy, how.
Speaker 7: Are you Carly great? Thanks for having me?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you should just remove drinking altogether from
Speaker 5: the date. I think you should say, look, I don't
Speaker 5: really drink and we do something else. I would love to,
Speaker 5: like maybe go bowling or do this, or maybe meet
Speaker 5: for coffee. I actually think that it's a problem that
Speaker 5: so many people go on dates and drink. Is you
Speaker 5: know what happens when people drink, They look at someone
Speaker 5: they think, yeah, I'm attracted to them because it's the
Speaker 5: alcohol talking.
Speaker 4: So I think I don't.
Speaker 5: I think you absolutely should say, you know, I don't drink,
Speaker 5: and I kind of prefer to do something else.
Speaker 4: What do you think? Because that's actually going to.
Speaker 5: Any guy who's like not into that or disappears great,
Speaker 5: let him because that is exactly not your guy.
Speaker 4: It's the one who's gonna be like cool.
Speaker 5: You know, I'm not really a big drinker either, and
Speaker 5: I you know, would love to take you whatever, hiking, walking, coffee, breakfast, bowling,
Speaker 5: whatever the hell it is, dancing, whatever it is.
Speaker 4: And so, yeah, what are your two cents?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I kind of disagree. Okay, I feel like.
Speaker 2: You're making it like that you're only available, Like it
Speaker 2: almost sounds like you'll you'll never be open to going
Speaker 2: out for drinks. And she just said she's totally happy
Speaker 2: going out for drinks because if someone says, I don't drink,
Speaker 2: Can we do something else? I would take that to mean, oh,
Speaker 2: that's what our whole thing is going to be. Like,
Speaker 2: what if I want to go have a couple drinks
Speaker 2: one night, You're not gonna sit with me. I understand
Speaker 2: what you're saying, but I think for the purposes of
Speaker 2: meeting people, I'm not saying you should lie and say
Speaker 2: take out the drinking. But I don't think it's a
Speaker 2: problem for you to go at like it's nice to
Speaker 2: demonstrate that you can go somewhere, go out for drinks
Speaker 2: with somebody and it's not an issue, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Because then they know that, oh, she does
Speaker 2: a drink, but that's fine, she's cool, she's fun. We
Speaker 2: can go to a bar, we can hang out, we
Speaker 2: can play pool, we can play darts. There's other things
Speaker 2: that can happen there besides just sitting and drinking, you know. So,
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm the guy that is breaking up with
Speaker 2: you because you're sober, Like I'm if I went out
Speaker 2: with a guy who didn't tell me they didn't drink,
Speaker 2: I would be annoyed, Yeah, because I want to know that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: of course you already know that, and it doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that I wouldn't date somebody who didn't drink.
Speaker 1: I mean I don't. I don't think i've Yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Have that if they're leading with it, yeah, but with
Speaker 4: a drinker. You don't want to be with a big drinker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think you are reading a lot of people out
Speaker 2: because they might be like, oh, she's gonna be judgy,
Speaker 2: or she's gonna be you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: she might be sober. I mean maybe if you want
Speaker 2: to write, even in adendum, like I'm not in AA,
Speaker 2: I just don't really drink a lot or not a
Speaker 2: big drink, not a big drinker. And that's it, like,
Speaker 2: you know, make it look less in the blow just
Speaker 2: because some people are fine as long as they know
Speaker 2: you're cool, and some people are just don't want to
Speaker 2: be like you.
Speaker 5: She was telling them, she was saying I'm cool, she
Speaker 5: was saying, I don't drink, but I'm totally fine. But
Speaker 5: then what they do is that they then they don't
Speaker 5: show up.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and that's what they've been doing recently. And I'm
Speaker 7: just like, tell me that it's not okay and I'm
Speaker 7: cool or expect it unmatch me great, but don't plan
Speaker 7: a date and then.
Speaker 1: Ghostw What city are you in?
Speaker 7: I'm right outside Philadelphia in South Jersey.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I thought you were going to say.
Speaker 2: I was like, if you're in LA, it shouldn't be
Speaker 2: an issue because everyone's fucking sober here anyway.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 5: Maybe they're not. Maybe they're not falling through because it's
Speaker 5: not that I don't know. Maybe it's because they just
Speaker 5: they want to get hammered with you and have a
Speaker 5: good time. Either way, they're not your guy. What's important
Speaker 5: to you in terms of a partner and his relationship
Speaker 5: with alcohol.
Speaker 7: For me personally, I just have like some you know,
Speaker 7: low key medical issues where I tend to like pass
Speaker 7: out and have a seizure if I have certain medications
Speaker 7: or alcohol. Yes, so I've just you know, I'm thirty
Speaker 7: two now, I've lived my whole life, college, scrap parties,
Speaker 7: law school, everything, not drinking, being around people who drink.
Speaker 7: All of my friends drink. It's never really been an
Speaker 7: issue for me except in this like one sphere of data.
Speaker 2: Right, I'm gonna say, I think you're labeling yourself, even
Speaker 2: though she's saying I'm okay with drinking.
Speaker 1: I think it's so.
Speaker 4: Do you think she should not say anything? I just
Speaker 4: don't think you should do it.
Speaker 1: I don't think you should put.
Speaker 2: Such an emphasis on drinking, just like you shouldn't put
Speaker 2: such an emphasis on most things, like when you're not
Speaker 2: before you meet someone, like have them, have the experience
Speaker 2: of meeting them. Take out the drinking thing, I think,
Speaker 2: and just and then see if that changes the amount
Speaker 2: of men that you actually match with, and then see
Speaker 2: if that changes the quality of men that you match with,
Speaker 2: because maybe it will have the effect that Jillian is saying,
Speaker 2: which is you, thank God you're rid of all those people.
Speaker 1: Anyway. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe there's a couple of people in there that aren't
Speaker 2: big drinkers, that just are like, oh, I'm on a
Speaker 2: first date. I want to have a cocktail like that.
Speaker 2: That's kind of like a very regular thing for people
Speaker 2: to do, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And Carly, would you tell us a little bit about
Speaker 3: You mentioned some really interesting things to me about your
Speaker 3: experience on the apps, like kind of guys you're getting
Speaker 3: hooked up with.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 7: Yeah, on the apps recently, I've been having this issue
Speaker 7: where like, even when I do go on a few
Speaker 7: dates with people, I get a lot of feedback about
Speaker 7: that I have my shit together too much and that
Speaker 7: makes them insecure.
Speaker 1: After the date or before the date.
Speaker 7: After when I do go out and date, it's like,
Speaker 7: you know, two or three dates with someone and they're like, oh,
Speaker 7: you know, I'm not in a place in my life
Speaker 7: right now, and they use it as an excuse and
Speaker 7: they even I'm like, oh, you own a house, you like,
Speaker 7: know what you're doing with your life. And I'm still
Speaker 7: trying to figure my life out at like thirty nine
Speaker 7: years old, which is fine, everyone's in different areas. But
Speaker 7: that's just kind of like something I've been getting a
Speaker 7: lot recently.
Speaker 2: That you definitely don't want to diminish the fact that you.
Speaker 1: Have your shit together.
Speaker 4: Absolutely not.
Speaker 7: There's a little shit I could still figure out.
Speaker 2: So that's something that you don't want to start hiding
Speaker 2: from men because you know, absolutely not exactly. I think
Speaker 2: it's great that you have your shit together at thirty two,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's amazing people until like thirty five ish,
Speaker 2: I think to get their shit together. Yeah, thirty five
Speaker 2: to forty anyway, Yeah, and beyond.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2: That would be my advice just to remove that. Don't
Speaker 2: put such an emphasis on it. Just you know, you're
Speaker 2: open to whatever you can suggest. Always going to coffee. Also,
Speaker 2: we're going for a walk. In your book, you talk
Speaker 2: about what a co regulating experience walking is. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: the first time I've read that. I mean, I know
Speaker 2: it to be true, coregulated, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is it right?
Speaker 2: That's actually an It sounds kind of like a corny
Speaker 2: thing to do on a date. I mean, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: go for a walk with someone on a date. I
Speaker 2: did it once and that's why I'll never do it again.
Speaker 2: But it is actually a really good activity for two
Speaker 2: people to do together.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And you know what's something that I'll leave you with
Speaker 5: is this. Sometimes the people who do have their quote
Speaker 5: unquote shit together and are not You're they're not hookup material,
Speaker 5: their wife material like, and I say that meaning like
Speaker 5: they're not the person who you're just You're not they're
Speaker 5: not just gonna like have a good time with you
Speaker 5: and get wasted and go to bed together like you're
Speaker 5: someone actually to be taken seriously. For many different reasons.
Speaker 5: Sometimes those women they do have to wait a little
Speaker 5: bit longer for the right per especially around your age group.
Speaker 5: But don't let that discourage you. Never, as Chelsea said,
Speaker 5: never diminish all that you've accomplished and that you have
Speaker 5: your shit together, like you have to that you have
Speaker 5: to be loud and proud about that.
Speaker 7: Okay, I'll try.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 3: I love that, Jillian. Yeah, yeah, you are somebody they
Speaker 3: bring home to mom.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you are. And that's a good thing and
Speaker 4: that's a lovely thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And also enjoy the process of all of this, Like
Speaker 2: I know it may seem frustrating right now, but like
Speaker 2: you'll never get this time back again.
Speaker 1: You know, you're thirty two, you're.
Speaker 2: Single, you're on apps, Like, look at that as fun
Speaker 2: and adventurous instead of the disappointment that comes with it.
Speaker 2: There's also all these other fun, flirty things. Sometimes you
Speaker 2: flirt with people that you never even go on a
Speaker 2: date with. Yeah, and it's fun for like five days
Speaker 2: or two weeks, and it never comes to fruition. But
Speaker 2: like who cares, you know what I mean, it doesn't
Speaker 2: fucking matter. It's like, enjoy all of this that's happening,
Speaker 2: because you're never gonna be thirty two again, and you
Speaker 2: might not be You might meet somebody, get married and
Speaker 2: have kids and be like, God, I wish I went
Speaker 2: on some more dates, you know what I mean?
Speaker 7: Well, I have been to more countries than days this year,
Speaker 7: So I guess that's perfect.
Speaker 1: That's a good attitude too. I love that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So you're a very interesting girl. You're a very
Speaker 5: interesting woman, so you need you need an interesting guy.
Speaker 5: And so anyone who's just like gonna be like, well,
Speaker 5: she won't get wasted with me.
Speaker 4: That's not your guy.
Speaker 2: No, but do you have any plants that you can say,
Speaker 2: because we need to put a plant in this area
Speaker 2: that isn't this tall that just like kind of comes
Speaker 2: up here and it's a little bit. I would keep
Speaker 2: asking our callers, but our last caller he was not helpful.
Speaker 7: I kill all plants. I just got flowers and at
Speaker 7: the farmers market and they're dead already, so I don't
Speaker 7: I can keep dogs alive, but not plants.
Speaker 1: She does have an enormous black.
Speaker 4: Dog, just like you.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't need her to keep my dog alive.
Speaker 2: I mean, you keep your dog alive, and I'll try
Speaker 2: to keep mine alive. But I guess we can call
Speaker 2: this episode no plants for us.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well does that help you at all? Are you?
Speaker 7: Thank you?
Speaker 1: Okay, thanks, thanks for calling in.
Speaker 7: Bye bye, Jillan.
Speaker 3: Do you have advice for people who are on the
Speaker 3: apps and are just like suffering.
Speaker 4: Advice?
Speaker 5: Well, I think there's a few things. One is that
Speaker 5: really shouldn't don't depend it's designed to make you very dependent.
Speaker 5: Don't depend on them entirely. Like actually, go out, meet people,
Speaker 5: expand your circle, have fun, live your life to the fullest.
Speaker 5: Don't get so obsessive about it. Expand your zip code.
Speaker 5: That's important because also if you're in a big city
Speaker 5: usually that can be more difficult. So go like to
Speaker 5: the periphery. Maybe you have to drive thirty minutes, maybe
Speaker 5: you have to dry.
Speaker 1: In an hour.
Speaker 4: I think it's worth it.
Speaker 5: And don't be having a million different texting exchanging exchanges
Speaker 5: with lots of different people, Like focus on one person
Speaker 5: at a time, honestly, and meet the person, whether it's
Speaker 5: like through a FaceTime or zoom or in person quickly.
Speaker 5: Because what I've been seeing a lot lately is that,
Speaker 5: oh my god, I've been texting with this person. It's
Speaker 5: been like two months but we haven't met, and it
Speaker 5: creates this really weird false sense of intimacy. So just
Speaker 5: like if you are in it because you want a relationship,
Speaker 5: then you have to have discipline not to always be
Speaker 5: on it. You have to have some clear standards and
Speaker 5: also have some pictures of you where you're like smiling
Speaker 5: and it's not just like a poe with all this makeup,
Speaker 5: especially for women. And yeah, those are just my quick tips.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 3: Well, maybe let's take a break and we'll come back
Speaker 3: with a quick question, A quicker question.
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll take a break and we'll be right back,
Speaker 2: and we're back with Gilly and Tareki.
Speaker 3: And actually, before we're back, we can lose our headphones.
Speaker 1: I like my headphones. We feel it make me feel secure.
Speaker 1: I know, what do you got?
Speaker 3: I've got either my boyfriend has a lot of female
Speaker 3: friends or.
Speaker 4: My ex lover died.
Speaker 1: Oh what do you think?
Speaker 4: I think the ex lover died?
Speaker 3: Ex lover died?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 6: What is okay?
Speaker 8: Sure?
Speaker 1: I'm open?
Speaker 3: Okay, So, Tricia writes, Dear Chelsea, I just found out
Speaker 3: that my former lover, with whom I was in an
Speaker 3: extramarital relationship, died, a year ago. We were lovers undercover
Speaker 3: for ten years, and I loved him. I was very
Speaker 3: close to his wife. I know it's gross. She found
Speaker 3: out about us because of a drunk email I sent
Speaker 3: years ago when the guilt got the best of me,
Speaker 3: admitting to our relationship.
Speaker 1: I'mother great advertisement for alcohol.
Speaker 4: Skewing that way today.
Speaker 3: I'm since widowed and have only had two exchanges via
Speaker 3: LinkedIn with him since we broke up. But I started
Speaker 3: to write her how sorry I was for her loss
Speaker 3: and of course the damage I caused. But now I'm
Speaker 3: rethinking writing her. Should I reach out? What say you, thanks, Trisha?
Speaker 1: No, no, do not no reason to leave her alone.
Speaker 1: Let her grieve. Yeah, and you can do your grieving
Speaker 1: by yourself.
Speaker 4: And she lost her her husband, so she's a grieving both. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, never mind her.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a big no.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm glad we're in agreement.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we do have probably time for that last other
Speaker 3: quick we want to do?
Speaker 5: Sure?
Speaker 3: Okay, great, So, Susannah says dear Chelsea. I'm in a
Speaker 3: new relationship where I feel secure for the most part.
Speaker 3: My one hang up with him is that he has
Speaker 3: a lot of female friends that he regularly talks to
Speaker 3: and hangs out with, both single and married alike. Obviously,
Speaker 3: I know I can't tell him who to be friends with,
Speaker 3: but I just cannot relate at all. Because I don't
Speaker 3: have any single straight men that I'm regularly talking to
Speaker 3: and hanging out with. It feels like it could quickly become.
Speaker 4: A slippery slope.
Speaker 3: I have not brought this up to him yet because
Speaker 3: I think it could easily be misconstrued as me being
Speaker 3: the jealous type or acting like the crazy girlfriend. I
Speaker 3: trust him, and I don't want to unnecessarily rock the
Speaker 3: boat of an otherwise great thing. He's been single for
Speaker 3: a long time, over a decade, so perhaps he doesn't
Speaker 3: even realize that it might make me uncomfortable since he's
Speaker 3: not used to having to consider someone else's feelings. My
Speaker 3: question is is it worth bringing up since it makes
Speaker 3: me feel uneasy or will it just naturally fade out
Speaker 3: over time now that he isn't single? Is it totally
Speaker 3: fine to be in a relationship and have a bunch
Speaker 3: of single friends of the opposite sex? Basically, is this
Speaker 3: a valid concern or am I just insecure? Susannah?
Speaker 4: How long have they been together? I forgot that.
Speaker 3: Let's see, it's just this new relationship. I don't think
Speaker 3: we have a timeline.
Speaker 1: Would you like to answer this first? Would you like
Speaker 1: to go first?
Speaker 5: I think that it's important when you're trying to foster
Speaker 5: a new relationship, certain other relationships might have to change.
Speaker 5: I also think that if you're gonna have a lot
Speaker 5: of friendships, female friendships, and you're a straight man, you're
Speaker 5: in a relationship with a woman, that she should be
Speaker 5: introduced to these friends and included somewhat.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 5: It really just and also depends does he have a
Speaker 5: history with any of them? Has he hooked up with
Speaker 5: any of them? Did he date any of them? Those
Speaker 5: need boundaries around them, especially when you're trying to foster
Speaker 5: like safety and trust in a new relationship.
Speaker 2: What do you think, Well, I think she hasn't even
Speaker 2: broached the topic with him, and right now it doesn't
Speaker 2: sound like it doesn't sound nefarious. It sounds like he
Speaker 2: has a lot of friends that are girls, and I
Speaker 2: think people should be confident.
Speaker 1: She said in the letter.
Speaker 2: I don't have I can't relate because I don't have
Speaker 2: a lot of friends that are guys. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 2: you problem, not a heat problem, Well I have. I'm
Speaker 2: dating somebody who has lots of girlfriends.
Speaker 4: Uh huh.
Speaker 2: I have no issue with that whatsoever. I have lots
Speaker 2: of guy friends. I mean most of them are gay,
Speaker 2: but I have a lot of straight male friends. And
Speaker 2: it's just not an issue because I'm confident and he's confident.
Speaker 2: It's not a thing I don't think. I think if
Speaker 2: their issues arise because of it, in addition to your
Speaker 2: insecurity that is so far rooted in nothing, just her
Speaker 2: own insecurity, if there were issues that were derived from
Speaker 2: him in some one of these women, then yes it
Speaker 2: becomes an issue. But right now it sounds like her issue,
Speaker 2: not a him issue.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean, look, the thing is I agree. I think
Speaker 5: there's nuance. It's like, does he have these other friendships
Speaker 5: and is he not is he not communicating with her
Speaker 5: like when there.
Speaker 2: Should absolutely be free to meet all of them. Yeah,
Speaker 2: be incorporated.
Speaker 4: I think there be integration. I think that's really important.
Speaker 1: Definitely.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I think as long as there's integration and as
Speaker 5: long as it's not like when there's where it gets messy.
Speaker 5: It's like if they have a problem and he's going
Speaker 5: to one of his female friends and he's not talking
Speaker 5: to her, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening.
Speaker 4: But I do want to bring that up.
Speaker 5: Is something that does potentially happen in couples where it
Speaker 5: absolutely can be a problem. Also, it can be a
Speaker 5: problem with one of those friends as someone who like
Speaker 5: a year ago, you were in a relationship with and
Speaker 5: there isn't any like clear boundaries. But at the same time,
Speaker 5: if it's just I do believe that there can be
Speaker 5: friendship and that it absolutely could be just her insecurities
Speaker 5: to your point, because I.
Speaker 2: Just don't think like you when you said I think
Speaker 2: the first thing you said was like, you know, when
Speaker 2: you're in a relationship, your other relationships have to change.
Speaker 2: I actually I don't think that's true unless you have
Speaker 2: some unhealthy relationships, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: Yes, it might mean like so like life.
Speaker 2: I mean also including the girl in your relationships, Yeah,
Speaker 2: your girlfriend integration's really import I think where there needs
Speaker 2: to be changed is like if you have if he
Speaker 2: has a friendship with one of the women who's single,
Speaker 2: and you know.
Speaker 5: She's the first person he texts in the morning and
Speaker 5: they talk about everything, and they you know, they they
Speaker 5: do their Saturday nights together when you have a relationship
Speaker 5: that some of that relationship is going to have to change,
Speaker 5: but other than that, no, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, well, thanks for writing in Susannah, and
Speaker 3: thank you.
Speaker 1: To have a plant.
Speaker 4: I will email her now, Okay.
Speaker 1: Okay, I like this. Okay, well everybody can order.
Speaker 2: It begins with you, the nine hard truth about love
Speaker 2: that will change your life.
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you so much.
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. It was so much fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good times.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well we'll see everybody or here everybody, or listen
Speaker 2: to everybody or talk to everybody next week.
Speaker 6: Goodbye.
Speaker 3: If you'd like advice from Chelsea Shoots an email at
Speaker 3: Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be sure
Speaker 3: to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and
Speaker 3: engineered by Brad Dickard executive producer Katherine law and be
Speaker 3: sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com