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Speaker 1: Michael, So this is the one episode where you didn't

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Speaker 1: come up.

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Speaker 2: With a really a huge huck.

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Speaker 1: Okay, do you have any thoughts about history?

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Speaker 2: I love history. History repeats itself in order to predict

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Speaker 2: the future. Take a look at the history. The thing

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Speaker 2: I love about history is it has a tendency to

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Speaker 2: repeat itself, repeat itself, much like a lap on a race.

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Speaker 2: If history repeats itself, it's really not even history. It's

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Speaker 2: just now over and over. For My Heart podcast one

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Speaker 2: on one studios and Sports Illustrated Studios, this.

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Speaker 3: Is choosing sides.

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Speaker 4: If one wow, wow, So today, Tony, you're taking me back.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely. F one as a sport has such a fascinating

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Speaker 5: and rich history, and for so many Formula One I

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Speaker 5: had Formula one fans. The biggest fan and I'm not

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Speaker 5: even joking here, the biggest fan in the sport is

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Speaker 5: revealing its history. I'm covering and retelling those stories. Sometimes

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Speaker 5: it gets a bit pedantic if they go back of

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Speaker 5: just like remember who beat the fastest lap and who

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Speaker 5: beat who in the nineteen ninety one World Championship. Yah yah, yeah,

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Speaker 5: but there's so many good stories.

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Speaker 3: Clip Mike, Hello, can you hear us?

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Speaker 5: And see us.

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Speaker 6: Okay, I can can you hear and see me.

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Speaker 5: The miracles of technology that solved it?

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Speaker 7: That should certainly be quieter if nothing else.

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Speaker 5: How's it going?

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Speaker 3: It is another day in paradise.

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Speaker 6: I'm totally comfortable. Don't worry.

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Speaker 5: Fantastic well'na, We're gonna ask the first big question, which is,

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Speaker 5: please introduce yourself to our listeners, and how do you

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Speaker 5: fit into the big puzzle of Formula one?

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Speaker 6: What a big puzzle Formula one is was and always

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Speaker 6: will be. Indeed, my name is Matt Bishop. I've worked

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Speaker 6: in Formula one well for a third of a century.

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Speaker 6: I think we can now say born in nineteen sixty two,

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Speaker 6: and my first memory of Formula one is not watching

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Speaker 6: it on the television because it wasn't on television. You know,

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Speaker 6: I'm one of these people that does love the past.

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Speaker 6: You know, I'm very happy to watch a movie from

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Speaker 6: the sixties. Reybaby started off as a journalist editor of

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Speaker 6: F one Racing Magazine, which is now called GP Racing Magazine.

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Speaker 6: Fifteen years as a journalist, then was hired to McClaren

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Speaker 6: as communications director, then stepped away from that and was

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Speaker 6: one of the founders with David Coulthard of w series,

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Speaker 6: which thrived for a while but isn't thriving now sadly,

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Speaker 6: but I still think it played its part in driving

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Speaker 6: forward the effort to incorporate women inside the cockpit. And

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Speaker 6: then I moved to Aston Martin, spent two years there

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Speaker 6: and now in my sixties, I've turned sixty. I'm now

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Speaker 6: running my own comms agency and also turned my hand

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Speaker 6: back to journalism and I'm doing a weekly column for

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Speaker 6: the Most Sport magazine website. So there you are. That's

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Speaker 6: a whistle stop tour. That's and a little bit of

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Speaker 6: racing pride along the way. That's me.

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Speaker 7: Hi, I'm James Allen. It's a great pleasure to be

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Speaker 7: with you here on choosing sides. I've been in Formula

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Speaker 7: one since nineteen ninety so what's that thirty four to

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Speaker 7: thirty five years, and I guess the bulk of my

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Speaker 7: career was a broadcaster and an announcer. I was with

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Speaker 7: the ESPN, I was with the commercial station in the UK, ITV,

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Speaker 7: and with BBC as well.

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Speaker 3: Who's this guy, Well, allow me to explain. I'm Sean Kelly.

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Speaker 3: If you've watched a Formula one broadcast anywhere, in the

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Speaker 3: world in the last say, two decades. You won't know me,

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Speaker 3: but you will know my work because I am essentially

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Speaker 3: the chief statistician to the F one Broadcast's all the

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Speaker 3: facts and figures you hear in a Formula one broadcast,

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Speaker 3: whether they be in the graphics, whether they be spoken

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Speaker 3: by the likes of David Croft or Martin brund or

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Speaker 3: Alex Jakes or whomever, I am chiefly responsible for all

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Speaker 3: of that content. So, depending on where you and on

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Speaker 3: the whole statistics spectrum, either you're welcome or I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: I left edit points there so you could edit in

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Speaker 3: whichever response you are. I should point out, by the

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Speaker 3: way that Roman Grojan's career nos dived the very moment

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Speaker 3: I asked him on stage on race day in Miami

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Speaker 3: if he thought that breakfast Cereal was just soup with

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Speaker 3: better marketing. He was having a great IndyCar season. Checked

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Speaker 3: the dates from that moment on. I think it was

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Speaker 3: May eighth, twenty three, twenty three. I literally killed his career.

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Speaker 3: Oh God, put it in the show, get it in

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Speaker 3: the show.

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Speaker 8: Crashes out of the Indianapolis five hundred, another massive hit.

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Speaker 3: Either way, I haven't had an answer which means he's

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Speaker 3: still contemplating it in his head.

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Speaker 1: Amazing.

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Speaker 2: One thing that you've been telling me in this voice

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Speaker 2: that you use is that so many of the teams

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Speaker 2: are based in the UK. Why is that? And is

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Speaker 2: that your real voice or are you doing like a

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Speaker 2: UK voice for me all of this?

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Speaker 7: So, the reason why so many of the teams are

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Speaker 7: based in the UK actually goes back to the Second

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Speaker 7: World War.

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Speaker 9: Yesterday morning at two one am at General Eichena headquartern,

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Speaker 9: General Jodel signed the Act of Unconditional to render all

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Speaker 9: German land, sea and the airportage in Europe, and simultaneously

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Speaker 9: the Soviet High Command.

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Speaker 7: At the end of the Second World War, you had

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Speaker 7: all these people, these very clever people who had been

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Speaker 7: building spitfires and fighter planes and technology that had been

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Speaker 7: used during that war time period. And funnily enough, they

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Speaker 7: were flying planes out of an aerodrome just north of

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Speaker 7: London called Silverstone, which had a perimeter road around it

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Speaker 7: that was just an ideal shape for a racetrack, and

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Speaker 7: so they started racing on it, and then they started

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Speaker 7: making the car's lighter, they put bigger engines in, and

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Speaker 7: then they started playing around the materials and all the

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Speaker 7: things they've been doing while fighting a war they converted

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Speaker 7: into a sport.

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Speaker 2: You kind of have this knowledge base, but there's no

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Speaker 2: more war to fight, but there is this experience, yeah, right.

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Speaker 5: And use this experience for something different, but also just

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Speaker 5: keep busy, like, let's have a job here. And there

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Speaker 5: was also not many cars left after the war because

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Speaker 5: the automotive industries, both in Europe and in the US

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Speaker 5: had been completely retool to manufacture the likes of tanks, trucks, airplanes,

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Speaker 5: as we mentioned before. So engineers got creative. They built

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Speaker 5: these really lightweight cars to go racing on these abandoned

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Speaker 5: and empty airfields, which later become actual racetracks and still

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Speaker 5: are some of the tracks where we go racing today.

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Speaker 2: It's very cool, but airfields are straight, yes, so they

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Speaker 2: added they added just a part of the race. So honestly,

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Speaker 2: we still race on some of these todays.

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Speaker 5: Comparsions of the racetracks I believe are still part of

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Speaker 5: cal And airfields that we had in World War two.

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Speaker 7: And basically that whole area around Oxford and Silverstone became

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Speaker 7: a center of excellence for things like carbon fiber and

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Speaker 7: materials and technology and aerodynamics and what have you, and

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Speaker 7: then lots of international people came to work in those environments.

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Speaker 6: You know, you didn't have what they now call as

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Speaker 6: a headquarters or a facility. They had what they called workshops,

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Speaker 6: little workshops basically lock up garages, and they employed anything

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Speaker 6: between ten and twenty people, and they worked incredibly hard,

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Speaker 6: incredibly hard.

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Speaker 5: Talent suppliers and mechanics and shops and repair shops which

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Speaker 5: became what we now know as motorsport value. Motorsport value

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Speaker 5: is essentially the biggest hub of motor racing. Most of

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Speaker 5: the teams, if not nearly all of the teams are

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Speaker 5: based in this motorsport value and.

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Speaker 7: The only other exception to that has been Ferrari really

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Speaker 7: in Italy, where they've been racing since before anybody else

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Speaker 7: even thought about it, and before long before the Second

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Speaker 7: World War had. They did it their way in their

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Speaker 7: country and they've been competing basically against the rest ever since.

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Speaker 7: But that's why the UK as a disproportionate basis because

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Speaker 7: of the sort of handing down through the generations of

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Speaker 7: this sort of technical know how.

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Speaker 5: And it's not even just the UK. They're in this

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Speaker 5: little vat like they're very close. They're very close.

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Speaker 2: Hey, can we borrow the five sixteenth ranch for the

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Speaker 2: nut bolt on the coming over the distributor valve?

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Speaker 1: Michael, you know what a distributor valve is?

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Speaker 2: Hell?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, please enrich us.

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Speaker 2: Next question, Okay, so he built this machine. Great, great, great,

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Speaker 2: But drivers? I mean, were they able to get drivers

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Speaker 2: who were willing to put their life on the line

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Speaker 2: for this machine?

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's a great question because it both shouldn't

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Speaker 5: surprise us that they didn't have too much of a

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Speaker 5: hard time coming out of World War Two, where I

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Speaker 5: think a lot of the men were still in this

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Speaker 5: heroism and heroic mindset where it was totally normal to

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Speaker 5: put your life on the line for anything that you

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Speaker 5: believed in.

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Speaker 3: If you've been in the situation, if you've been an aviator,

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Speaker 3: you've been bombed or anything like that. And then suddenly

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Speaker 3: it stops and you're thinking, kind of miss missing the thrill.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's lives of I kind of need another.

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Speaker 3: I need I need to be a bait of a

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Speaker 3: thrill seeker, a race car.

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Speaker 7: There is an aspect of the psyche, certainly of the

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Speaker 7: male psyche, and there is definitely a desire to feel

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Speaker 7: alive by putting everything on the line.

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Speaker 6: You know, in those days, if you knew you were

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Speaker 6: likely to die or very possibly were going to die,

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Speaker 6: then it did. It did mean that you were going

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Speaker 6: to approach everything your whole life differently.

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Speaker 7: Formula one was I guess along with bullfighting. According to

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Speaker 7: having Away the original, the original extreme sport.

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Speaker 6: I think the whole feeling of death was not quite

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Speaker 6: so remote as it is now. I'm not glorifying it.

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Speaker 6: Sterling Moss used to glorify it. He used to say,

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Speaker 6: I find one of the appeals is that I'm risking

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Speaker 6: my life.

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Speaker 10: Are you conscious?

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Speaker 1: Do you think about death while you're driving in races?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 11: Not when I'm driving, but I'm very I am frightened

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Speaker 11: of death. It's something which I think every driver should well.

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Speaker 11: Possibly it helps him to be frightened of it, because

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Speaker 11: if you're not frightened an accident, then what is your limitation?

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Speaker 11: You get a sort of tingling in the hands and

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Speaker 11: feeling as though you'd just eaten a lot of porridge

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Speaker 11: which goes right down, you know, to your feet, And

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Speaker 11: that's the sort of sensation I get. But I wouldn't

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Speaker 11: ponder on the thought.

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Speaker 7: You know, my dad was a racing driver, and there

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Speaker 7: was always something incredibly exciting about about racers, about the

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Speaker 7: people who sort of commit to this sport with their

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Speaker 7: time back in the day, sadly with their lives.

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Speaker 3: Formula One the World Championship was actually quite lucky in

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Speaker 3: the early years. I believe the first recorded fatality in

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Speaker 3: a World Championship event was an Offering Marriman at the

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Speaker 3: fifty four German Grand Prix. I'm looking at you as

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Speaker 3: if you're going to correct me, and I don't think

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Speaker 3: you will.

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming that they were all like dumb eighteen twenty

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Speaker 2: year old No.

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Speaker 3: Actually, the average age of the Grand Prix field was

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Speaker 3: well over thirty in the early years. I mean Fanjio

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Speaker 3: won the tied to when he was forty six. Luigi

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Speaker 3: Fajoli was I think fifty three when he shared the

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Speaker 3: car with with Andrew at the fifty one French Grand Prix.

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Speaker 3: Luis Chiron was fifty five when he raced at Monica

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Speaker 3: in nineteen fifty five.

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Speaker 6: But they were still just as skilled, they were not

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Speaker 6: just as fit. You know, look at Freulein Gonzalez. You know,

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Speaker 6: a huge fat man. There are no huge fat men

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Speaker 6: in any sport now, with possible exception of darts, but

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Speaker 6: not most sport and not Formula one, that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: Baseball.

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Speaker 6: Are they fat? They're just big on they?

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Speaker 10: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think some of them are. I could lose a

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Speaker 1: few pounds.

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Speaker 2: Here's my theory. Tell me, when you have a family

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Speaker 2: and you have responsibilities at home, people that rely on you,

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Speaker 2: that's when you want to do your dared devil activities,

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Speaker 2: because it's like, get me out of the house, I'll

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Speaker 2: do whatever. You know, I just need a couple hours

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Speaker 2: to myself. Let me go with the boys down on

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Speaker 2: the airfield and we'll do some racing.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now, me and my wife actually fight over who's going

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Speaker 1: to get to go to the supermarket without kids.

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Speaker 2: I probably much preferred these types of drivers as opposed

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Speaker 2: to like the twenty year old Max who's born in

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Speaker 2: the sport and has seen all of the evolution through

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Speaker 2: his dad. It's like, these were guys who just got

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Speaker 2: done killing Nazis with their bare hands. Give me the

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Speaker 2: fucking steering wheel, let's go, baby.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to mention here, like, keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: Michael that in their day, Fanjo, I mean, he he

248
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Speaker 1: wasn't changing diapers.

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Speaker 2: That's true. That's true. He wasn't walking a daycare nop.

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Speaker 5: No, thank god for those days are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well we blew it. I want to talk to

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Speaker 2: Juan and tell him if you guys would have just

253
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Speaker 2: put in a little more effort, would have been better

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Speaker 2: for men today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they fucked it up for us.

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Speaker 5: Oh oh, we need it done.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm done. What was the beginning, Like, what was

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Speaker 2: the F one first F one race?

259
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Speaker 6: Like?

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Speaker 2: Was there a shitload of people there? Was it just

261
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Speaker 2: a couple ragtag guys with helmets in their hands?

262
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Speaker 7: Oh no, I mean Formula well not just Formula one

263
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Speaker 7: motor racing, you know, lamon twenty four hours, things like

264
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Speaker 7: the mean a Melia that's featured in the Adam Driver film.

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Speaker 7: You know, they would probably over a million people lining

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Speaker 7: the roads in Italy for that thousand mile race back

267
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Speaker 7: in the day. I mean bear in mind that this

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Speaker 7: was the white heat of technology, the development of the

269
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Speaker 7: automobile as it got faster and faster and more glamorous

270
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Speaker 7: and brands like Ferrari and Mercedes. It was exciting and

271
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Speaker 7: it was, as I say, it was an extreme sport.

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Speaker 7: People were really excited about it and they could go

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Speaker 7: to these racetracks like Monza in Italy or silver Stone

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Speaker 7: and just just north of London and pack out the

275
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Speaker 7: grandstands and have a really amazing experience watching these heroes

276
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Speaker 7: sliding these cars around the racetrack. And so it was exciting.

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Speaker 7: You know, its post war in Europe. You know, it

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Speaker 7: was pretty gloomy. People that were still rationing. You know,

279
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Speaker 7: football was back and running and people liked to go

280
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Speaker 7: to the match and cheer on their team, but go

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Speaker 7: and watch some really powerful, noisy, fast racing cars. You know,

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Speaker 7: it wasn't expensive to attend, and sort of huge crowds

283
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Speaker 7: at the you know, you know, tens hundreds of thousands

284
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Speaker 7: of people watching motor races.

285
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Speaker 2: How many races did they have that first year? Let

286
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Speaker 2: me guess, Let me guess, have a guess. They're new,

287
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Speaker 2: they're not really having their shit together, but they got

288
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Speaker 2: a little bit of money. They had four before I'd say.

289
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Speaker 5: Six races, very close, one more.

290
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Speaker 2: Eight races. I've never been go with math. Seven races.

291
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Speaker 5: Okay, they deemed that seven races was the suitable number

292
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Speaker 5: for this championship.

293
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Speaker 2: What is it now, like twenty three or something? Too many?

294
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Speaker 5: Okay, seven races for the championship. How they guess at

295
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,440
Speaker 5: how many people participated in this championship because this is

296
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Speaker 5: kind of cool.

297
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Speaker 2: Well, previously we had thirty six drivers, so I would say,

298
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Speaker 2: let's say the same thirty six.

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Speaker 5: During that entire year. So during those seven races, we

300
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Speaker 5: had between fifty and sixty drivers participate in at least

301
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Speaker 5: one race, which also speaks volume. Remember that concorded agreement.

302
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Speaker 5: They speaks volume about the amount of people who entered

303
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Speaker 5: a race and sometimes didn't show up. And some teams

304
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Speaker 5: had six drivers and some teams had one or two,

305
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Speaker 5: so it was all over the place.

306
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Speaker 6: There was a time where you could buy you know,

307
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Speaker 6: in the fifties, but if you were someone like Horace Gould,

308
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Speaker 6: who wasn't particularly quick but had a business wasn't minted.

309
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Speaker 6: He bought a two fifty f Masa, one of the

310
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Speaker 6: most beautiful fullball one cars there's ever been, and he

311
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Speaker 6: went racing in it, not very well, and he didn't

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Speaker 6: have to do all the races. He didn't have to

313
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Speaker 6: take it to Argentina if he thought that would be

314
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Speaker 6: too much of a pain in the bum to do that,

315
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Speaker 6: So he could take it to the races that he

316
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Speaker 6: wanted to take it to and race where he wanted to,

317
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Speaker 6: so that was something you could do.

318
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Speaker 7: One of the few female drivers who's raced in Formula

319
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Speaker 7: one was a lady called Maria to Raise the Philippies,

320
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Speaker 7: who was very very accomplished equestrian athlete. You a big,

321
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Speaker 7: big horsewoman, and she was a very good racing driver

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Speaker 7: as well. She loved cars, she loved driving, and she

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Speaker 7: raced in the late nineteen fifties in Formula one but

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Speaker 7: did really well, you know, she was, she was great

325
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Speaker 7: and so the accessibility I think then probably helped a

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Speaker 7: little bit. And it's a shame, it's it's we haven't

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Speaker 7: you know, we haven't seen so many female drivers since then.

328
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Speaker 6: And they were just what was called disparagingly garage East.

329
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Speaker 6: In other words, they had a garage and they bought

330
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,680
Speaker 6: a cost of engine and a human gearbox, knocked it

331
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Speaker 6: together and got someone to drive it. So they were

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Speaker 6: garage East. It was a disparaging term.

333
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Speaker 5: It made for very chaotic racing.

334
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Speaker 2: Well, they're figuring they're shut out. Take your Vovo station

335
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,880
Speaker 2: wagon if you remember, take your kid's car seats out

336
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,200
Speaker 2: there you go. If not, car seats, definitely didn't exist

337
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Speaker 2: back then. But it actually leads to my question of

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Speaker 2: what was the sat what were the cars like? Was

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00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,040
Speaker 2: there a seatbelts? Were there?

340
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Speaker 5: Certainly wasn't halos No, no halos no.

341
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Speaker 2: And the wheels didn't even detach.

342
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Speaker 9: No.

343
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Speaker 7: They were bloody dangerous is what they were.

344
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Speaker 11: Like.

345
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Speaker 7: They're beautiful, you know, really lovely shaped body if you google,

346
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,720
Speaker 7: like a two fifty f Maserati or you know a

347
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Speaker 7: two four six Dino Ferrari. So the fuel tank was

348
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Speaker 7: in a kind of a behind the driver in a

349
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Speaker 7: kind of a like a cone at the back, and

350
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Speaker 7: then the engine was in front of the driver, and

351
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,520
Speaker 7: the pedals the throttle pedal on the right and the

352
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Speaker 7: brake and then the clutch on the left, with a

353
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Speaker 7: massive drive shaft that went between his legs down to

354
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,000
Speaker 7: the rear wheels which are just basically just by his

355
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,359
Speaker 7: hips if you want, sort of small leather seat, wooden

356
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 7: steering wheel with a very rudimentary four gate metal gear

357
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,800
Speaker 7: gear change. Absolutely no seat belts, absolutely no rollcages.

358
00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,280
Speaker 3: In the fifties, they were racing with cork helmets and

359
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 3: polo neck shirts.

360
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 2: Cork helmets literally like a little.

361
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,159
Speaker 3: Like you know, like a helmet you would wear if

362
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 3: you were playing polo, Like if you're on a horse

363
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,479
Speaker 3: and playing polo, that kind of helmet is what they

364
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,320
Speaker 3: were wearing. There was no rollover protection at all. In fact,

365
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,280
Speaker 3: there was no rollover protection mandated until nineteen sixty one,

366
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,520
Speaker 3: and even when it was mandated, it was basically a tube,

367
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,480
Speaker 3: a hollow tube of aluminium which would crush flat as

368
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:43,480
Speaker 3: soon as the car rolled over.

369
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Speaker 6: Anyway, it was a token gesture.

370
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Speaker 7: Really really poor brakes have to start breaking about, you know,

371
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,000
Speaker 7: three weeks before you reach the corner to sort of

372
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Speaker 7: go around it. I'm exaggerating, but really really really difficult

373
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,680
Speaker 7: cars to drive. Those cars like to slide. They didn't

374
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Speaker 7: go around on rails. They If you google photographs of

375
00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,560
Speaker 7: one Manuel Fangio, there's an amazing picture of him sort

376
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,720
Speaker 7: of drifting at one hundred and sixty miles an hour

377
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 7: through a corner. It's like literally drifting like it's just

378
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,040
Speaker 7: insane at that speed. And yeah, they were beautiful cars.

379
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,880
Speaker 2: I'm looking at pictures of a nineteen fifties F one

380
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,919
Speaker 2: car right now, speak to you, and it looks like,

381
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:24,640
Speaker 2: sorry to say it, a carrot. It looks like a

382
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,720
Speaker 2: wide in the back, shallow in the front carrot. You

383
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 2: could also say like a missile, you know, I mean.

384
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 5: Which again goes I still look fast. They were building

385
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 5: airplanes that it looks probably more like something you'd you know,

386
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,480
Speaker 5: it's see in the air flying around.

387
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,160
Speaker 2: And there's some listener right now saying like, just say it, Michael,

388
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 2: say it looks like a penis, and I won't.

389
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,720
Speaker 5: Okay, but you just I won't know what I want,

390
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 5: but you won't say what.

391
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,320
Speaker 2: I won't say that a nineteen fifties F one car

392
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 2: kind of looks like a penis, which also lines up

393
00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 2: with the mentality mentality, the maleness the war. But still,

394
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,560
Speaker 2: but I will say this, it still looks fast, and

395
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:16,240
Speaker 2: it still looks dangerous. Do they have seat belts?

396
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,280
Speaker 5: Seatbelts were definitely around, but most drivers, as you can imagine,

397
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:21,239
Speaker 5: preferred not to use them.

398
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,119
Speaker 2: It's like wimpy if you put a seatbelt on.

399
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,919
Speaker 3: It wasn't considered wimpy to wear seatbelts. It was actually

400
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 3: considered dangerous to wear seatbelts because there was the omnipresent

401
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,919
Speaker 3: risk of fire, and it was always felt that if

402
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 3: you're gonna have a crash, it better to be thrown

403
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,400
Speaker 3: out of the car. You can kind of say, well, yeah,

404
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 3: I'd rather have a few broken legs than burned to

405
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 3: death in a fireball, because eventually drivers did have seatbelts

406
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 3: and burned to death in fireballs.

407
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,679
Speaker 2: I think if I had the choice of being either

408
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,400
Speaker 2: catapulted down an asphalt road, getting a concussion, three broken ribs,

409
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,719
Speaker 2: internal bleeding, two broken legs, a broken arm, and severe

410
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,400
Speaker 2: facial fracture, or being trapped in a burning car, I'd

411
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 2: probably take the first option.

412
00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 1: Choices, choices, choices.

413
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,919
Speaker 7: My dad does. I mention was a racing driver and

414
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,320
Speaker 7: the only reason I'm probably here today talking to you

415
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 7: is because he didn't have seat belts in his Lotus

416
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 7: in nineteen sixty two when he had an enormous accident

417
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,640
Speaker 7: at SPA and the car didn't have a rollcage, and

418
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 7: he would have been killed were it not for the

419
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 7: fact that he was thrown clear of the car and

420
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 7: landed in a ditch, not on the track, thank god.

421
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 7: Otherwise he would have killed him. But he landed in

422
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 7: a muddy ditch to the side of the racetrack.

423
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 5: In the late sixties, Sir Jackie Stewart's campaigned to have

424
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 5: them introduced in the sport.

425
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 7: He was.

426
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 5: If you retain anything from what sir Jackie Stewart has

427
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 5: done for the sport is his endless campaign for safety

428
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 5: and security for the drivers.

429
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,360
Speaker 7: You know, he was the first true professional, I think

430
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 7: in Formula one. He took it. He became like an

431
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 7: international icon. He had lots of endorsement deals with lots

432
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 7: of sponsors, and he took it. He took the whole

433
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 7: thing to a professional level.

434
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 6: I mean, he's very precise, attention to detail, always attention

435
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 6: to detail.

436
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 5: Do you have any fun facts about Stewart?

437
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:07,400
Speaker 6: Maybe not so fun. Jackie Stewart deliberately wanted to finish

438
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 6: on one hundred World Championship Grand Prix starts, and he

439
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 6: did enter a Grand Prix for one hundredth time, which

440
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 6: was the United States Grand Prix of nineteen seventy three,

441
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 6: But he didn't start it because his teammate France Fois Severt,

442
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 6: perhaps the most beautiful Formula One driver facially that there

443
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 6: has ever been, who did, by the way, have an

444
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 6: affair with Bridget Bardo, So his face took him a

445
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 6: long way. For those who are too young, Bridget Bardo

446
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 6: deserves googling. She has good taste in men, and he

447
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 6: obviously had good taste of women.

448
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,880
Speaker 12: Jackie did all my education, Jackie Stewart, So in fact,

449
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 12: I was what you could call a mad driver. I

450
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 12: was driving like hell. I was not thinking enough to

451
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 12: what I was doing. And Jackie stopped all that and

452
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 12: teach me how you must analyze a car, how you

453
00:21:58,320 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 12: must think when you're dying.

454
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: Oh, what kind of.

455
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 7: Vision must have?

456
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 12: He did all my education.

457
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 6: He was killed. He was killed in qualifying, and Jackie

458
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 6: Stewart withdrew as a mark of respect, but also completely

459
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 6: grief stricken, stunned and shattered.

460
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 2: Stuart walks away from drawn prex racing his career over.

461
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 6: And so he stopped on ninety nine.

462
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 7: I think his biggest influence on the sport is the

463
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 7: work he did on safety, because Formula one was incredibly

464
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 7: dangerous during his period. He lost most of his friends

465
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 7: to racing accidents. Partly it was so frightening. He was

466
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 7: able to keep his mind under control and not get

467
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 7: too worked up. So he was always in control, and

468
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 7: that's why he was so successful, three time world champion.

469
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 7: But then he just wasn't satisfied with the facilities they

470
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 7: had for the medical facilities and all that kind of

471
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 7: thing around Formula one, and he did it basically. He

472
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 7: was just a true campaigner, and he pushed and pushed

473
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 7: and pushed until the standards were raised, and not just

474
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 7: like hospital facilities on track, but making sure that the

475
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 7: barriers at the side of the racetrack were safer, making

476
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 7: the cars safer. You know, I mentioned that fuel tanks

477
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 7: were really exposed in those days. A lot of drivers

478
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 7: died in kind of horrible fiery accidents, and so he

479
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 7: played probably a bigger role than anybody in the transformation

480
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 7: of Formula one from a killer sport into the safer sport.

481
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 6: You know, there's the James Dean factor when people die young,

482
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 6: and of course in those days drivers did die young.

483
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 6: We've mentioned France FOI sever very talented driver who died young,

484
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 6: and there's far too many. Jackie Stewart, thank goodness, did

485
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 6: not die young. He's still alive in his eighties, and

486
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 6: I think perhaps for that reason, he's not really given

487
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 6: quite the credit for being such a brilliant driver. People

488
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 6: regard him as, you know, terribly professional and awfully organized,

489
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 6: but they forget that actually he was as quick as quick.

490
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 6: That word, that big word begins with Q gets us

491
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 6: all excited if we love this sport. He was as

492
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 6: quick as anyone we've ever seen. Nerver Gring nineteen sixty eight.

493
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 10: In unclosures conditions that German Grand Prix got underway.

494
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 6: He won in torrential rain by more than four minutes

495
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 6: with a broken wrist. Just think about that for a second.

496
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 2: It's good he's driving.

497
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 10: It is Daddy's Juart number six, and a metropod was

498
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 10: piloting his car as oh he hadn't built in radar.

499
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 6: Stewart dominated the race. He was an incredible driver, Jackie Stewart,

500
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 6: and where honored still to have him amongst us.

501
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 3: Towards the end of the nineteen sixties and the start

502
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 3: of the nineteen seventies was really the most perilous time

503
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 3: of war. In nineteen sixty six the regulations were changed.

504
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 3: There was the return to power, as called. They moved

505
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 3: from one and a half liter engine back to a

506
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 3: three liter engine. You were putting this tremendously powerful engine

507
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 3: in the back of was basically a canoe filled with gasoline.

508
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 3: And yeah, hilarity often ensued.

509
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 7: The seventies was unbelievably glamorous, but also unbelievably dangerous. As

510
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 7: the cars started to sprout these wings, the drivers sprouted sideburns,

511
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 7: and it was all very rock and roll. But lots

512
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 7: of people got killed, you know.

513
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 3: In sixty eight Jim Clark was killed, Mike Spence was

514
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 3: killed at Indy, Joe Slessor was killed in the French

515
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 3: Grand Prix. You know, in nineteen seventy Pierce Courage, Bruce McLaren,

516
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 3: Yoch and Rint All Eyed, seventy three, Roger Williamson, Francois Severe.

517
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 3: It just became part of it. I heard Yok and

518
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 3: Rint's widow, Nina won't say at the time. This was

519
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 3: like in nineteen seventy so we would often buy black

520
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 3: dresses if we saw them because we thought, well, we'll

521
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 3: need that for the next funeral. Now can you imagine

522
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 3: that in twenty twenty three? Can you imagine that being

523
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 3: formula one being allowed to continue thinking well, I'll look

524
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 3: great at the next funeral.

525
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 7: You know, could be me looking at it through rose

526
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 7: tinted glasses. Because I was a kid in the seventies.

527
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,479
Speaker 7: I mean, I thought the seventies were very exciting, and

528
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 7: it was I remember the seventies in technicolor, you know,

529
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 7: really it was vivid, but also when you look back

530
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 7: at all the footage, you look at the amazing photographs

531
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 7: by people like Ryan schlegel Milch, you know his images

532
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 7: of the seventies there, it's just so sexy. It's like

533
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 7: that whole steph McQueen, Marie Andretti. It's just everyone was

534
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 7: just kind of cool. It was still sort of edgy

535
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 7: and sort of a little bit dangerous and all those

536
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 7: sort of things, and it was just it was very glamorous,

537
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 7: but it was still a bit of a best kept secret.

538
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 7: It was really only with the arrival of satellite TV

539
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 7: in the sort of late seventies early eighties that the

540
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 7: whole thing kind of really blew up as a global sport.

541
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 2: It seems like F one has come a very long

542
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 2: way since the cowboy days is what I'll call them.

543
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 7: Oh absolutely yeah, I mean there's no question it's some

544
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 7: people would say it's sort of become a bit more corporate,

545
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 7: and it's not the better for that, But then I

546
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 7: think that's inescapable really for international sports. Everything is it's

547
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 7: a business. But I think Formula One and Tony I

548
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 7: hope would agree with me, still retains a feeling of

549
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 7: that vestige of a life lived on the limit. Into

550
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 7: the eighties, the car's got a lot safer because they

551
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 7: started building them out of carbon instead of bits of

552
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 7: aluminium tubes.

553
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 3: After eighty two, when Ricardo Pelleti and Gil Villanov was killed,

554
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 3: it was not another fatality at a Grand Prix weekend

555
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 3: until nineteen ninety four, and it fostered this sort of

556
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 3: mentality that, well, can you really get killed in a

557
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 3: Formula one car anymore? Because they've just transitioned from aluminium

558
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 3: or aluminum to carbon five and monocoques and no one

559
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 3: had been killed in one at a Grand Prix weekend,

560
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 3: So it felt like, ah, these things are indestructible, you know,

561
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 3: this is the thing that saves a driver. And we

562
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 3: did see some monumental accent where drivers would just jump

563
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 3: out and go back and get the spare car.

564
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 5: Is there anything, because again you've seen I think so

565
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 5: much of the evolution of this boy. Is there anything

566
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 5: that you would want to bring back from the history

567
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 5: of the past of Formula one team personality attract a

568
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 5: tradition that you're just like, you know what, I want

569
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 5: to bring that back.

570
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 7: I'd love to bring back out and Sena and have

571
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 7: him racing today against these drivers peak Senna sort of

572
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 7: around what would it be, sort of around the age

573
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 7: of sort of thirty, that kind of thing, at the

574
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 7: absolute height of his powers. I'd love to see him

575
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 7: taking on Hamilton and Vastappen and the rest. He was otherworldly.

576
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 7: I've never met anybody like it. And Senna it was

577
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 7: a real kind of charismatic presence. You know, when he

578
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 7: walked into a room, everybody stopped, all eyes kind of

579
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 7: you know, Wow, he carried a presence like I've never

580
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 7: met anyone before or since. And God, could he drive

581
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 7: a racing car. He was so fast, you know, and

582
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 7: he was I think what marked him out was his commitment.

583
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 7: All Grand Prix drivers have a huge level of commitment,

584
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 7: but he was absolutely on it the whole time, and nothing,

585
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 7: you know, was too much, whether it was in terms

586
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 7: of effort that he put into it or trying to

587
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 7: find a competitive edge or going over the edge sometimes

588
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 7: a roster had.

589
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 8: Taken the advantage. Senna is trying to go through the

590
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 8: inside and it's time of the Madialyn.

591
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 13: It is amazing.

592
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 7: The rivalry between Air and Senna and Alain Prost was

593
00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 7: absolutely lethal and so intense. It really blew the sport up.

594
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 7: It was just something that nobody in the world could

595
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 7: take their eyes off. I mean, it would be mainstream news.

596
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 14: I think if Prosty wants to be called the Saul

597
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 14: champ and three times world champ, and the way he's

598
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 14: doing his behavior like a coward and if he wants

599
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 14: to be supportive, he must be prepared to raise anybody

600
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 14: at any condition.

601
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 7: It was this box office rivalry between these two very

602
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 7: very different people for a while in the same team,

603
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 7: but then they went their separate ways. Cross went to Ferrari,

604
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 7: Sener stayed at McLaren and it was it was just

605
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 7: so intense.

606
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 8: Oh my goodness, this is fantastic they meet, This is

607
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 8: what we were faring might happen.

608
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 6: During the race.

609
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 7: Schumacher took a lot of his cues from him. You know,

610
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 7: I think I don't think Schumacher would have been the

611
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 7: way Schumacher was if he hadn't had to compete with

612
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 7: Senna at the very beginning of his career and Senna

613
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 7: kind of set the tone for that's how Schumacher thought,

614
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 7: that's how things were done in Formula One, and obviously

615
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 7: then he came a bit of a cropper when he

616
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 7: crashed into vel Nerve deliberately trying to win a world championship,

617
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 7: got heavily punished for it. Had a bit of a

618
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 7: reset about how to go racing. So Senna, Senna, would

619
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 7: I bring Senate back in a heartbeat, good evening.

620
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 13: The former world motor racing champion at and Senna has

621
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 13: been pronounced clinically did after a crash at this afternoon

622
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 13: San Marino Grand Prix.

623
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 3: Finally our lock ran out at Inmbland ninety four and

624
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 3: we were reminded that Isaac Newton does not discriminate based

625
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,719
Speaker 3: on race color, or creed or career.

626
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 13: Senna suffered serious head injuries when his car left the

627
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 13: track and crashed into a concrete wall. He's being kept

628
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 13: on a life support machine because of Italian law, but

629
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 13: a spokesman for the hospital in Bologna said there was

630
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 13: no chance he would survive.

631
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 3: From then on we moved into the era of really

632
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 3: accident science, really understanding the physics of the thing, and

633
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 3: fortuitously we have only had one more in the nearly

634
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 3: thirty years since, which is a phenomenal record. A lot

635
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 3: of people think that some of these racetracks are dull,

636
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: but it beats going to a funeral every other Friday.

637
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 3: We have come a long way, luckily.

638
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 7: And what era are we in now? We're in the

639
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 7: entertainment era. And you know the page turn here was

640
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 7: the takeover of the sport by Liberty Media and American business.

641
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 7: It had been run by the same guy for sort

642
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 7: of forty years. He was sort of getting older and

643
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 7: not innovating anymore. And the Americans came in and said, right,

644
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,239
Speaker 7: this is an entertainment and a sport and lifestyle and

645
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 7: fashion and music, and let's really push this thing and

646
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 7: see how far we can take it. And that's where

647
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 7: we live today.

648
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's safe to say that f one,

649
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 5: although it has a lot of rules, they're constantly evolving

650
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 5: and changing and for the better. I would argue the FIA,

651
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 5: that governing body of motorsports that we've talked about extensively,

652
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 5: has extremely detailed guidelines on absolutely every single element of

653
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 5: this sport, from the card dimensions to the safety standards,

654
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 5: to the sporting regulations, to when you should show up

655
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 5: for media and how much time you give to media, etc. Etc.

656
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 5: Which means that this creates a highly regulated but also

657
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 5: ever evolving environment. And I think this is one of

658
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 5: the things I love about the sport is highly regulated,

659
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 5: which pushes people to get really creative.

660
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 2: It feels like the cars today are very similar.

661
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 7: You're absolutely right. I think if you painted all of

662
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 7: the Formula one cars the same color, only real experts

663
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 7: will be able to tell you which one was the

664
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 7: Red Bull, which one was the Mercedes, which one was

665
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 7: the Ferrari, which one was the Alpine And hats off

666
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 7: to you if you can tell the difference.

667
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 2: Was there some wacky shit in the past though.

668
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, if you go back to the nineteen seventies,

669
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 7: the rules were much more loose and you had crazy

670
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 7: stuff they.

671
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 5: Developed, like two tier back wings which looked absolutely insane,

672
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 5: which if a crash happened, would absolutely decapitate the person

673
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 5: behind them without.

674
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: A dapt Well, who cares about the person behind him?

675
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 12: Yeah?

676
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 5: Who gets as long as it's behind us?

677
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, try to pass me.

678
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 7: Someone had the crazy idea of having two sets of

679
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 7: front wheels because you get more grip at the front.

680
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: So I'm looking at a six wheeled one car right now,

681
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: what your thoughts? And it looks like one of those

682
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: toads that has like mutated. You know what I mean,

683
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 2: but what's interesting about it is there's four tires up front.

684
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 2: I would have thought it'd be like a front middle back.

685
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 2: I don't, what do I know about aerodynamics. So it's

686
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: four up front and then two in the back. It

687
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 2: looks like the mama and the papa bear are in

688
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 2: the back and their four little cubs are up front.

689
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 2: But then in that metaphor, it's a race car. It's

690
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 2: not an animal, yes, and its wheels not bears. Yes,

691
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: got it?

692
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: This is this is not making any sense.

693
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: Okay, But the point is either did the six wheel

694
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: car and he drives.

695
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 3: The car you're referring to is the Tyrell P thirty four.

696
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: It was designed in a woodshed in the south of England.

697
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 3: Tyrrell well, they had it was a problem against Ferrari

698
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 3: because Ferrari had their flat twelve engine which had a

699
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 3: lot more horsepower, and they thought, was there some way

700
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 3: we can claw back this straight line speed deficit against

701
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 3: this flat twel Ferrari. So Derek Gardner, who was the

702
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 3: designer for TiAl came up with the idea, why don't

703
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 3: we have four small front wheels instead of two large ones,

704
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 3: because firstly we can get them lower, which cuts down

705
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 3: the cross sectional front area of the car and makes

706
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: less draggy. And secondly it puts more tire in contact

707
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 3: with the road, so therefore you should have more mechanical grip.

708
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 3: So this is all designed in CPN. They wheeled it

709
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 3: and everyone looked at it and said, guys are on

710
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 3: drugs or something. I don't know what's wrong with you.

711
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 3: You've got it all. You got six wheels in that car.

712
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 3: What's abe? And I quite far apart from the fact

713
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 3: that there's some minor things like, for instance, when the

714
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 3: drivers tested the car at first, they couldn't see the

715
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 3: front wheels and they literally said, it just doesn't feel

716
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 3: right when you can't see any front wheels. So they

717
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 3: actually had had to make a crylic inserting the cock

718
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 3: pits so the drivers could physically see the wheels in

719
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 3: their eye line. It did work quite well.

720
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 6: You know. They won a Grand Prix, the nineteen seventy

721
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 6: six Swedish Grand Prix Jody Scheckter and by the way,

722
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 6: his teammate Patrick Depay was second in that race, so

723
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 6: it was a one two and they had a load

724
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 6: of podiums, seconds and thirds.

725
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 3: But the problem was was tire development it ran Goodyear tires,

726
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 3: and Goodyear were really not keen on developing tires for

727
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: the four small front wheels of one car on the grid,

728
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: so in seventy seven they fell behind. So the car

729
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 3: was never as competitive as it was in seventy six,

730
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:26,760
Speaker 3: and by seventy eight they'd abandoned the concept.

731
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 6: And by the way, it wasn't even the clever way

732
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 6: of doing six wheels, because the cleverest way of doing

733
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 6: six wheels, or the cleverer way was having two steering

734
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 6: wheels at the front and four driven wheels at the back. Yes,

735
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 6: there would have been a weight penalty because of the

736
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 6: transmission complication, but you would have had four wheel drive

737
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 6: at the back.

738
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 3: Williams tested a six wheeler I think Ferrari may have done.

739
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 6: I think Ferrari as well, and those cars just would

740
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 6: have catapulted out of corners with enormous traction.

741
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 3: But then eventually the FIA said, look, this is barmy.

742
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 3: You know you're all to end up with like tractor

743
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 3: trailer wheels. From now on, each car must have four wheels.

744
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 7: Then someone come up this crazy idea of putting a

745
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 7: fan on the back of the car that would then

746
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 7: suck the car down to the ground so it would

747
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 7: go quick around the corners.

748
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 15: Sweden seventy eight will be forever remembered as the race

749
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 15: that got a car banned. Bernie Ecclestone's Brabham team that

750
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 15: introduced the new BT forty six. Nobody remembers the type mark.

751
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 15: They just remember it's immediate nickname, the fan Car.

752
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 6: People think of it as a classic. I don't think

753
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 6: it was. It was a crude thing, stick a fan

754
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 6: at the back and suck it to the ground. That's

755
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 6: famously called the Brabham Fan Car. One the Swedish Grand

756
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 6: Prix in the hands of Nikki Lauder, and by the way,

757
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 6: he won it easily, he didn't even have to push.

758
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 7: But of course it got banned because it was splitting

759
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 7: stones out of the cars that was following behind, like

760
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 7: some you know, like some Mario cart game or something.

761
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: I love when humans go crazy with creativity because it's

762
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 2: just so many's failed attempts. But that's what makes us human.

763
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 5: That's what makes us human. And I would argue that

764
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 5: all of these creative inventions came out at a time

765
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 5: where there were regulations, so they just change and every

766
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 5: time they're like woop, can't do that because this, you know,

767
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 5: introduces a certain amount of dangers or variables that we

768
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 5: can't you know, we can't control, So we're not going

769
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 5: to do that. More regulations come out, more people try

770
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 5: and push the boundaries, and it's just an endless cycle

771
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 5: of pushing the boundaries of the regulation and coming up

772
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 5: with creative and innovative idea.

773
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 3: He's a great example. Nineteen eighty one. It was the

774
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 3: skirts era, right, so you had underbody skirts, the first

775
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 3: ground effect era, and the FIA mandated, okay, from now on,

776
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 3: we're going to do a test in the pit lane.

777
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 3: When you come in, the car has to be six

778
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 3: centimeters off the ground. And Gordon Murray from Brabham, who's

779
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 3: a genius, said, in the rule book it says it

780
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 3: has to be in the pits. There's nothing there that

781
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 3: says we can't lower it as soon as we go out.

782
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 3: So they made a hydraulic system which had a button push.

783
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 3: So as soon as they went out, they pressed the

784
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 3: button and it lowered the car to the ground. And

785
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:56,959
Speaker 3: then we come back in and he pressed the button,

786
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 3: it comes back up and it was literally there's an interview.

787
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 3: There was an interview with him, So, what do you

788
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 3: you This is ridiculous. It says it has to be

789
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 3: six center me. He's like, no, it doesn't, No, it doesn't.

790
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: It says it only has to be when the test

791
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 3: is happening, you're going to test it. It doesn't say

792
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 3: anything about being on the track.

793
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 5: So Paddock is full of kids that always found the

794
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 5: way around the homework and that would find of clever

795
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 5: way of just saying I did the homework. Technically, I've

796
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 5: done it.

797
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 2: Sorry to interrupt, Tony, I'm gonna shift us in a

798
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: neutral for a second, which means a quick commercial break.

799
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 2: One of the things I love about sport is learning

800
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: who the greats were. Okay, who are some of the

801
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 2: greats of F one. We did talk about Urt and Senna. Yeah,

802
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: Michael Schumacher.

803
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 5: Michael Schumacher is absolutely one of the greats.

804
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 7: Michael Schumacher took everything to a completely another level after

805
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 7: Sena in terms of just the level of preparation and

806
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 7: his commitment to what he was doing. When he was

807
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 7: in his first couple of years of competition, he used

808
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 7: to have his blood tested during a pit stop, you know,

809
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 7: during a test session. He'd do like twenty thirty laps

810
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 7: come in and then his physio would like draw some

811
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 7: blood from his arm in a syringe and take it off,

812
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 7: and then Schumacher go back out as if he's doing

813
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 7: a race simulation, because he wanted they wanted to analyze

814
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 7: what was happening in his blood and in his body

815
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 7: during the course of race conditions. I mean, that's the

816
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 7: kind of level he was starting to take things too,

817
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 7: in the kind of early nineteen nineties. He wanted to

818
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 7: make it as difficult as possible to beat him.

819
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 5: You will hear the names one Min Vanjol as well

820
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 5: from and around.

821
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 6: Nurble Green nineteen fifty seven, the.

822
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 8: World's Greatest circuit, Another race for the world's greatest driver.

823
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 8: Que Manuel Fanjo. Panko's already won the Argentinian and the

824
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 8: Monarco Grand Prix. He's already won four World championships for

825
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 8: help Romeo on the snes Pared Ferrari. Now he's out

826
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 8: to win his slip World championship in a Mazzarati.

827
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 6: Fanjo was in a maserati miles behind the two Ferraris

828
00:39:55,719 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 6: and drove out of his skin, frightening himself and to

829
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 6: pass them, catch them and pass them and drove, I mean,

830
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 6: the most dangerous track there's ever been, the Novergreen, and

831
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 6: he drove so fast and took so many risks that

832
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 6: for the next two weeks he had nightmares, literal nightmarees.

833
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 6: He couldn't sleep because he'd gone closer to the edge

834
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 6: and remember the danger of going to the edge in

835
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 6: those days of death, likely death.

836
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 5: We talked a lot about Sir Jackie Stewart, and a

837
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 5: lot of people associate him.

838
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: His name comes up a lot. Yeah, yeah, his name.

839
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 6: Up like that.

840
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 5: I don't know if this is true, but I feel

841
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 5: like he's a bit like the grandfather of the Godfather,

842
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 5: maybe even a Formula one.

843
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 7: The most pure kind of driver, I'm told my dad

844
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 7: knew him really well, he was friends with him, but

845
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,919
Speaker 7: I never obviously saw him. Race was Jim Clark, who

846
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 7: was a Scottish driver in the nineteen sixties, two time

847
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 7: world champion, who was just beautiful to watch and tended

848
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 7: to win races by huge margins just because he's he

849
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 7: was just he was just balletic behind the wheel by

850
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 7: all accounts, just so smooth and just so fast, and

851
00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 7: no one could live with him.

852
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 3: Everyone looked up to him, as just Jim.

853
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 6: He won twenty five Grand Prix out of seventy two starts.

854
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 6: Guess how many times he came second Once.

855
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 3: He tended to either win or the car broke.

856
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 6: Down when the car hill together, he won. He was

857
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 6: as good as that.

858
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 3: And in sixty three and sixty five when he won

859
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 3: the championship, he scored the maximum possible score under the

860
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 3: rules in both those seasons. Yeah, take that, Maximus Stappen.

861
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 3: And in sixty five, get this, in sixty five years

862
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 3: called the maximum possible score that season even though he

863
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 3: skipped the Monaco Grand Prix, didn't compete in the Monica

864
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 3: Grand Prix because he was winning the Indy five hundred.

865
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 3: He won the Indy five hundred and the championship in

866
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 3: the same year. That's unbelievable.

867
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 10: And one of your food chop plans were you raced

868
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 10: at Indianapolis next year where you'll go there again?

869
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 2: Well, everyone in America keeps asking me that, but at

870
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: the moment, I don't know.

871
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 15: I'm I've come back to carry on with the European

872
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 15: season and try and get the championship back.

873
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 2: So well, wait, see how we get on with that.

874
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 6: Clark is to me.

875
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 3: The purest genius we've ever had in the World Championship.

876
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 10: It was in the fifth lap, but something went wrong.

877
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 10: Clark's car had not reappeared in front of the timekeeper.

878
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 10: The reason was soon clear. Clark had careered off the

879
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 10: track at over one hundred and fifty miles an hour.

880
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 10: The world the mon's the loss of a likable man

881
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 10: who was also one of the greatest Brand Prix drivers

882
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 10: of all time.

883
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 6: I think Lewis Hamilton has to be put up there

884
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,959
Speaker 6: as one of the most significant people in the history

885
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 6: of the sport as well. Lewis Hamilton has opened up

886
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 6: the sport to a different demographic, you know, the first

887
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 6: person of color to race in it, and not only

888
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 6: race in it, but become the most successful driver in

889
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 6: the history of the sport. I think his impact, which

890
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 6: has already been enormous on track, may end up being

891
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 6: even greater off track. If you're a young girl, or

892
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 6: a young black boy or girl, or a young LGBTQ

893
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 6: plus person, you might think, I wonder whether this sport

894
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 6: is for me. I wonder whether it's for me because

895
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 6: I can't you know, you can't really see it. That's

896
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 6: why I think Lewis Hamilton is so important as a

897
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 6: role model obviously visibly the only black driver in Formula One,

898
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,240
Speaker 6: but also he's a straight man. But he still wears

899
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 6: rainbow helmets where we do race at the beginning of

900
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 6: this year, for instance Bahrain and Saudi Arabia and later

901
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 6: Qatar and so on and so forth, and he wears

902
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 6: those helmets because I think he wants to stick up

903
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 6: for human rights wherever he sees it. It needs to

904
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 6: be stuck up for if you like.

905
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 16: What I truly believe is that everyone should have equal rights,

906
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 16: freedom of speech and freedom of movement. There's places such

907
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 16: as here where the LGBT community there's prison time, death

908
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 16: penalty and restrictions from people from be in themselves, and

909
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 16: I don't believe in that.

910
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 6: People like me obviously a gay man, and I'm one

911
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 6: of the founder ambassadors of Racing Pride, which seeks to

912
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 6: further and promote the rights of LGBTQ plus people in

913
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 6: motor racing generally and globally. So obviously we can do

914
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 6: so many things. We can make our effort, but actually

915
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 6: what we call allies, you know, straight allies, heterosexual allies,

916
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 6: are so valuable. Their voices are so important because it's

917
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 6: not just you saying I'm gay. Therefore I want to

918
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 6: say this. It's no, I'm straight, but I want to

919
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 6: say this still.

920
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 16: Religions can change, rules can change, rules can change those things.

921
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 7: They have the power too.

922
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 16: So we don't choose where we're going. Others have chosen

923
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 16: for us to be here, so we have to make

924
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 16: sure that we have to apply the pressure on them

925
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 16: to make sure that they are doing.

926
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 7: Right by the people.

927
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 6: He'll be forty when he first races a Ferrari, enormously

928
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 6: exciting and by the way, as fit as a butcher's

929
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 6: dog now, and he still will be, just as Fernando Alonso,

930
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 6: who's four years older than him, is still as fit

931
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 6: as a butcher's dog. I mean, personally, I'd absolutely love

932
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 6: to see Fernando in a Murk and Lewis in a Ferrari,

933
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 6: the two forty year olds duking it out in the

934
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 6: two best cars. Wouldn't that be great? That would be fantastic.

935
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 6: I mean, red Bull might end up being quicker or

936
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 6: as quick as well. But I'm allow me my fantasy,

937
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 6: Allow me my fantasy.

938
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I just was wondering if, since it also

939
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: came up for you how it was growing up as

940
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 1: a gay boy and then a gay man into the

941
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: world of f.

942
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 6: One answer, no worries. You know, when I arrived in

943
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 6: Formula one, which was a third of a century ago,

944
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 6: more or less, I was I think I was called

945
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 6: the only gay in the Formula one village, and I

946
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 6: can't have been, because, of course there must have been others.

947
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 6: But I was the only one who wasn't in hiding,

948
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 6: the only one who wasn't closeted. I just decided not

949
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 6: to be. I decided not to be. And I did

950
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 6: encounter some homophobia, some of which, of course I may

951
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 6: not have known about, because homophobes and like all bullies,

952
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 6: often caused trouble behind your back, not in front of you.

953
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 6: But I did get some in front of me. I

954
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 6: was a driver, funny enough, no longer involved in the

955
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 6: sport in any way, not a commentator, not involved in management.

956
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 6: But he used to call me the fat faggot. He

957
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 6: used to call me that routinely, both behind my back

958
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 6: and to my face. And I've never named him, and

959
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 6: I'm not going to, because that isn't the point. The

960
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 6: point is that that was a thing that used to

961
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 6: be able to happen. I don't think it would happen now.

962
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 6: So we are, we have come some way, and things

963
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,280
Speaker 6: are better than they were. I was a journalist, always

964
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 6: had a reasonably confident way with me. It doesn't mean

965
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 6: I don't have my own doubts and insecurities, because we

966
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 6: all do. But I think I always had a reasonably

967
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 6: confident manner about me. And I was a journalist in

968
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 6: the first instance, then comm's man, and then you know

969
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 6: all those other jobs. And I think from one grandees

970
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 6: understood that such people were not mechanics and were not engineers,

971
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 6: and therefore could be maverick in this way, and being

972
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 6: gay might be one of those ways in which they

973
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 6: could be maverick. If I'd been a mechanic, I think

974
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 6: it would have been more difficult. And I do know

975
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 6: mechanics who are still not out, who've been in the

976
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 6: sport for donkeys years, some of them, and some of

977
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 6: them honestly are out now in every other aspect of

978
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 6: their life. They are married to their own same sex partner, married,

979
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 6: and they had a wedding which their friends and families

980
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 6: all attended. They're out to their neighbours, they're out to

981
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 6: all their friends, and they're out to their partners, families

982
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 6: and employers. The one place they're not out is in

983
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 6: the factory they work in in England where they put

984
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 6: bits of formala one cars together, or they design bits

985
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 6: of formal one cars. And one of the reasons we

986
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 6: founded Racing Pride, which I still work for as a

987
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 6: founder ambassador I'm very proud of, is that we realized

988
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 6: it's not just you know, teenagers who are struggling to

989
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,919
Speaker 6: come out and wondering whether the sport is for them.

990
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 6: It's also men. It usually is men, not women, but

991
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 6: it can be women. But the vast majority of the

992
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 6: people I'm talking about a men in their thirties, forties

993
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 6: and fifties who are upset and depressed by the double

994
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 6: life they have to lead. And the story we take

995
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 6: to the teams because we go to teams and we

996
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 6: do workshops and symposia and lectures and explain to them

997
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 6: why this matters. And what I say to them is,

998
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 6: of course it matters because you should do the right thing,

999
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 6: but also you should want to do it because they

1000
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 6: won't give of their best, they won't do their best work.

1001
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 6: If they're mechanics, they may make mistakes. If they're are dynamesists,

1002
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 6: they may not come up with the very best innovations.

1003
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 6: So ultimately, if you can create a situation where they

1004
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 6: can feel happier and work better, you will make your

1005
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 6: cargo faster. That's what you'll do. And when you say that,

1006
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 6: because of course, nobody is more competitive than a Formula

1007
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 6: one boss, he says, uh huh, right, because there's lap

1008
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 6: time there.

1009
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 5: That's why any I mean, look the reality with the history,

1010
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 5: we could I feel like we could do a whole

1011
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 5: season just on this. But any final thoughts from your end?

1012
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 5: Would you see yourself as a history buff a history fan.

1013
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 2: Yes, it's easy to diminish historical figures because in sport

1014
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 2: we're always getting better, you know, like you could just

1015
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 2: go but what do you mean that guy is a great.

1016
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: Look at his lap times. It's so slow, but we

1017
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: forget how pivotal they were. And I find my favorite athletes,

1018
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 2: world class athletes are the ones that know and respect

1019
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: the history of their sport. I don't know which F

1020
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 2: one drivers have that now, but my favorite athletes are

1021
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 2: the ones that know who those people were, because that's

1022
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 2: the reason they have and are in the position that they're.

1023
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 5: In, they have respect.

1024
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just know where the sport came from. So

1025
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: it's important to know the history. Learn it. But life

1026
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 2: is for the now. We breathe now, we breathe air now,

1027
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 2: and so it's time to move on past the history

1028
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 2: into our next episode.

1029
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: This has been Choosing Sides f one, a production of

1030
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated Studios, iHeart Podcast and one oh one Studio podcast.

1031
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 1: The show is hosted by Michael Costa and Tony Cowen Brown.

1032
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: This episode was edited, scored, and sound designed by Senior

1033
00:50:54,600 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: producer Johai may Tho. Scott Stone is the executive producer

1034
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 1: and head of audio, and Danielle Wexman is Director of

1035
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: podcast Development and production manager at one on one Studios.

1036
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: At iHeart Podcasts, Sean Titone is our executive producer. And

1037
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 1: a special thank you to Michelle Newman, David Glasser, and

1038
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: David Hootkin from one O one Studios. For more shows

1039
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: from iHeart Podcasts, go visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts

1040
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and whatever you do,

1041
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: don't forget to rate us and tell your friends it

1042
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: really does mean a lot.

1043
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 5: So next week on Choosing Side, everyone we are going

1044
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 5: to be talking about the Brits. Absolutely favorite topic.

1045
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 2: American American Revolution.

1046
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 5: Nope, No so close though.

1047
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 10: Yah.

1048
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 5: The weather, weather, Yes, bring it on, it's good.

1049
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 2: Get your Sonnaise, gets your umbrella. What's what's an umbrella?

1050
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 5: The umbrella?

1051
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 2: Umbrella, umbrella?

1052
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:14,760
Speaker 1: What accent are you trying to do that, Michael?

1053
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 2: It is it is. You guys do love talking about

1054
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 2: the weather, and you should. It's fun and interesting. Over

1055
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 2: the nice breaker, Yeah it is.

1056
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 5: It's great and it actually plays a huge part in

1057
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 5: Formula one

1058
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:26,800
Speaker 2: That I'm interested to learn about.