Speaker 1: Hey, what a welcome, and I'm Doug Gallo. Disc is
Speaker 1: a ball and with the NCAA tournament continuing on, I
Speaker 1: think you're really gonna like this one. Joe Gallo is
Speaker 1: the head coach of Merrimack. You're like, wait, how do
Speaker 1: I know that name? Well, as you're watching FDU pull
Speaker 1: off an improbable upset of Purdue, the team that actually
Speaker 1: won the NC beat FDU in the anec's championship game
Speaker 1: is his memory team, but they're not eligible to go
Speaker 1: because they're in the transition phase, transitioning to Division one.
Speaker 1: Crazy as it may seems, it's got to be just
Speaker 1: a weird existence to be watching a team go through
Speaker 1: a run that you probably thought that could be me. Well,
Speaker 1: last Joe about it, He's gonna join me upcoming quickly.
Speaker 1: I wanted to give you some thoughts on Purdue losing
Speaker 1: to FTERU. If you follow me on social media at
Speaker 1: gottlieb Show, Twitter, Instagram, there's a Doug Gotlib Show fan
Speaker 1: page on Facebook, you know this to be true. I've
Speaker 1: become a proponent of five out basketball. Five out basketball
Speaker 1: to those of you who aren't Hoopers, it's a lot
Speaker 1: of times you go and see AU teams right where
Speaker 1: they're just all five sitting outside the three point line.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's the basis of it, that you're always
Speaker 1: playing five out you can flash somebody in the post.
Speaker 1: I like cutters within it. I like a design, planned,
Speaker 1: continuity sort of offense with as few a dribble handoffs
Speaker 1: and ball screens as possible, not because I'm anti dribble
Speaker 1: handoff and ball screen guy, but because so many teams
Speaker 1: set their defense to your ball screen coverage, to your
Speaker 1: DHO coverage anyway without getting too much in the weeds.
Speaker 1: That's basically how FTERU plays combined with full court pressure,
Speaker 1: and that's really the story of the game. Was not
Speaker 1: their offense, although I do think that their offense helped
Speaker 1: them with dagger shots. Also because of the continuous movement,
Speaker 1: it tires you out. You know, it's kind of like
Speaker 1: guarding Princeton back in the day. There's constantly cutting, constant movement.
Speaker 1: You don't know what's coming next because it's not a planned,
Speaker 1: set pattern offense, and when you get tired of guarding
Speaker 1: on defense, it hurts you offensively. But their defense was
Speaker 1: outstanding and it was really their game plan. They picked
Speaker 1: up Bradon Smith and rattled him. He had seven turnovers.
Speaker 1: Within the half court, they sagged off of, especially the
Speaker 1: four men for Purdue, and dared them to shoot, and
Speaker 1: when the dares were taken, they didn't make it. And
Speaker 1: then there was a good portion the game where Purdue
Speaker 1: got super tight and would even look at the basket.
Speaker 1: My thoughts on Purdue is, like, I know, people so
Speaker 1: badly want them to dramatically change. And if you've listened
Speaker 1: to this podcast, we talked about a conversation I had
Speaker 1: with Tony Bennett after they lost to a sixteen seed
Speaker 1: and how I challenged him. I said, you know, have
Speaker 1: you ever thought you gotta be willing to lose the
Speaker 1: game in November and December to win a game in March?
Speaker 1: And by that I mean try different lineups. See it
Speaker 1: looks like to play small. Take a look at his zone.
Speaker 1: I mean the first thing is I definitely would have
Speaker 1: played zone yesterday. Why are we making our seven foot
Speaker 1: four center run around the court try and chase a
Speaker 1: guy he can't guard. And though it shouldn't be your
Speaker 1: primary defense, you do want to have in your back
Speaker 1: pocket just in case for just that sort of matchup.
Speaker 1: Different variants of man and Man are great, but so
Speaker 1: too is his zone. And I don't like zone at all,
Speaker 1: but you've got to have it in your back pocket.
Speaker 1: The other part two it is that I would I
Speaker 1: would have challenged them to continue to put more and
Speaker 1: more shooters out there. You know, they always played with
Speaker 1: one of their two four men or Mason Gillis, and
Speaker 1: when they when they didn't have Zach eating the game,
Speaker 1: they'd always have his backup in the game because it's
Speaker 1: technically a smaller lineup. But why can't you play Mason Gillis?
Speaker 1: Why can't you play five out in your own right?
Speaker 1: In regards to their guards and not having multiple ball
Speaker 1: handlers guys that can break down a defense, I think
Speaker 1: some of it is the reality to Purdue. Purdue is
Speaker 1: not wired like some of these programs to go out
Speaker 1: and get a guy the portal and play him right away.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna be able to get a guy who
Speaker 1: breaks down a defense that creates things, a high level
Speaker 1: portal point guard who wants to be a produce sort
Speaker 1: of guy. They've done a very good job of keeping
Speaker 1: it within their sort of culture, maybe a step out
Speaker 1: of it. So, but the problem is if you take
Speaker 1: guys that don't fit your culture. Oftentimes that's what's led
Speaker 1: to these disastrous seasons. But all that said, it was
Speaker 1: still a linable basketball game. And between how much help
Speaker 1: was on Zach Dye and their inability to get in
Speaker 1: the ball and then Edie got the ball a couple
Speaker 1: times late and he still didn't even look at the basket.
Speaker 1: All of that stuff going on, I thought was a
Speaker 1: team that life confidence, and part of it is. Now
Speaker 1: it's three years in a row they've had these defeats
Speaker 1: and it does wear on you. I would also tell
Speaker 1: you that you know, like, look, if you want to
Speaker 1: be honest, I don't think Zach Eady has ever known
Speaker 1: what it's like to be a dominant player on his team.
Speaker 1: Like that's a different role for him. He's never been
Speaker 1: that guy. You have to learn those things over time.
Speaker 1: You have to learn that, you know, there are times
Speaker 1: which you got to take bad shots, you get double
Speaker 1: team shoot the ball because that allows you to rebound.
Speaker 1: On the week's side, he became passive. They became passive.
Speaker 1: Nobody wanted to shoot the basketball. But to people who
Speaker 1: want to say that this somehow, you know, means that
Speaker 1: Tony Bennett or Matt Painter's programs are fraudulent. Which you
Speaker 1: don't understand is it's almost two different sports, especially in
Speaker 1: the Big Ten. To win the Big Ten, generally you
Speaker 1: got to be able to score and defend inside. You
Speaker 1: need big dudes you do. Big Ten football is like
Speaker 1: this for years, where you couldn't win in the Big
Speaker 1: Ten unless you could run the football and stop the run.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, when you get out of the
Speaker 1: Big Ten, now the other teams have way more speed
Speaker 1: than way more, way more, and I think I think
Speaker 1: to the Big Ten. At least Ohio State has evolved.
Speaker 1: Michigan's involved some in football. They need that same sort
Speaker 1: of evolution which you're seeing at Penn State in basketball.
Speaker 1: Let's let's get to this discussion. Merrimack's an amazing story
Speaker 1: because they should be playing in the NSTA term, but
Speaker 1: there is a rule of transitioning to Division one. Today.
Speaker 1: The day after this gigantic upset, I got a chance
Speaker 1: to catch up with Joe Gallab Mermack's head coach, and
Speaker 1: he's an alum. This is how it went. So I
Speaker 1: usually I like to usually do chronological order and start
Speaker 1: with your career at Merrimentry, but I don't want to
Speaker 1: bury the lead. Okay, um, what's the last I don't
Speaker 1: know what this has been twelve twenty hours. Been like
Speaker 1: watching the school that you be yeah to win the
Speaker 1: conference tournament championship take down Purdue. Um. You know, a
Speaker 1: lot of it's been more from the outside, right, friends
Speaker 1: and you know, former teammates and former colleagues and kind
Speaker 1: of responding to a lot of other people's emotion about
Speaker 1: the situation. Right. Yeah. Obviously you you sit there and
Speaker 1: watch and you picture your own team in that situation.
Speaker 1: But it's been a it's kind of been four years
Speaker 1: in the coming, like everybody is just finding out for
Speaker 1: this this rule for the first time really because of us.
Speaker 1: I think it's something that myself and our staff prepared for.
Speaker 1: Mentally hits it hits home a little more when you
Speaker 1: actually see the team out there playing. But I feel
Speaker 1: a lot better than people would probably think. To be
Speaker 1: perfectly honest with you, like when you text me and
Speaker 1: I wrote back that was a true story. I was
Speaker 1: watching the Merrimack you mass Loell semi final hockey's game
Speaker 1: that we won in double overtime to go to the
Speaker 1: finals against bu in the garden tonight which I'm going
Speaker 1: to be heading out in a few here, so you know,
Speaker 1: no hard feelings. I've known Tob and Anderson for a
Speaker 1: long time. When he was at Stack and we were
Speaker 1: D two Merrimack, he knocked us out of a Division
Speaker 1: two NCAA tournament my first year as the head coach.
Speaker 1: Since that game, we've scrimmaged every year since. You know,
Speaker 1: they press, we play zone. No one wants to scrimmage
Speaker 1: either one of our teams. Right. We got together and said,
Speaker 1: you know what, if we play you in October, we'll
Speaker 1: have all our press stuff in and if you play us,
Speaker 1: you'll have all your zone stuff in. And we've played
Speaker 1: ever since, so you know, I think the action most
Speaker 1: people are looking for aren't what they're going to get
Speaker 1: out of me. I'm happy for them, I'm happy for
Speaker 1: the league. I think people really kind of should on
Speaker 1: our league a lot this year. You know, when every
Speaker 1: team's playing four or five guarantee games and your league
Speaker 1: starts out oh and forty, your metrics are never going
Speaker 1: to catch up to the league, right, And it's like
Speaker 1: they go and do what they did, not only in
Speaker 1: that game, I mean they twenty piece Texas Southern and
Speaker 1: it wasn't even close. So I think for them to
Speaker 1: do that gives our league a little bit more credibility.
Speaker 1: And hey, you know, I feel bad for our guys because,
Speaker 1: like I just told you, last time I saw you
Speaker 1: was when I was an assistant at Robert Morris when
Speaker 1: we played North Florida. I've fortunate enough to experience that
Speaker 1: the whole deal of March madness. Unfortunately, our players won't
Speaker 1: get to do that. That's the one thing I really
Speaker 1: do feel bad for. But you know, let's after you
Speaker 1: keep winning and have Merrimac's name keep getting put out
Speaker 1: there because of it. Okay, so is there is there
Speaker 1: a team group text that you're on. Um, there is,
Speaker 1: but we haven't touched it. To be honest, our guys
Speaker 1: don't want to watch. They say I can't watch. This
Speaker 1: is where they go with it. Um. Yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: can't blame like I, you know, I when I I
Speaker 1: don't know if you experienced this when you're in the tournament.
Speaker 1: But when you're in the tournament, you lose, you don't
Speaker 1: want to run. It's just over. I can't. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: know it. It hurts too to me. Basketball season. Basketball
Speaker 1: season is over. Um, so let's now let's go back. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you grew up in Jersey. I did you go
Speaker 1: to Princeton Day Yeah? If I went to Bishop bar
Speaker 1: which is now Saint Thomas Aquinas and Edison, New Jersey, uh,
Speaker 1: Middlesex County, and then I finished my last two years
Speaker 1: at Princeton Day School. So was Princeton Day School. The
Speaker 1: image I paint is everything is like Princeton Junior. Like
Speaker 1: you even run shin and elbow in high school. Is
Speaker 1: that accurate? It's pretty accurate. It's pretty accurate. Legendary high
Speaker 1: school coach Alan tab back Um, he's a was a
Speaker 1: close friend of Pete kill Um. We did run a
Speaker 1: lot of Princeton stuff, and you're it's right up the
Speaker 1: road and it's basically a j V. Princeton is what
Speaker 1: it is. What do you remember about and or do
Speaker 1: you remember about the last Princeton win, because my connection
Speaker 1: to it is that would have been my freshman year
Speaker 1: at UCLA. I was a lifetime UCLA band. They offered
Speaker 1: me a scholarship and went to Notre Dame instead. And
Speaker 1: then one of the players who's really waving the tabboard
Speaker 1: and anything on that team, Darren Height. You'll love that
Speaker 1: you'll love this. So Darren Hight we played together from
Speaker 1: fourth grade on and he was an unsigned senior. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he played at Modern Day and he was like
Speaker 1: a jack of all trades, master of none, right, probably
Speaker 1: average six to seven a game. And he couldn't get
Speaker 1: in on his own. He couldn't get into Harvard Princeton Yale,
Speaker 1: and I mean, you know, like back then, fourteen hundred
Speaker 1: plus sat for whatever GPA. Just couldn't get in. And
Speaker 1: so my dad calls coach Carill and says, Pete, you
Speaker 1: gotta take this kid. He's perfect for you. You know,
Speaker 1: parents can afford it. Dad's a periodontist. So he's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't I don't need it. I
Speaker 1: don't need a California kid. So he comes out and
Speaker 1: on Friday night we practice him Modern Day and he
Speaker 1: can't really tell in a practice. So the next day
Speaker 1: we play a game and you know, we have like
Speaker 1: Tonigan Zalez and Jared Henderson and Miles Simon. We we
Speaker 1: got a squad and we decide that everything we do
Speaker 1: we're gonna do for Darren. Right, We're gonna run him
Speaker 1: off single doubles. You know, he's gonna play the point
Speaker 1: could do it. He's got like thirty end of like
Speaker 1: the third quarter, and my dad had a rule where
Speaker 1: like take yourself out, you can put yourself back in, right,
Speaker 1: So he's tired, he takes himself out, and then mid
Speaker 1: fourth quarter he tries to like put himself back in.
Speaker 1: My Dad's like, where are you going? He's like, what
Speaker 1: do you mean I'm going back in the game. You know,
Speaker 1: we have the rule I took myself out of. No, No,
Speaker 1: set your ass down, You're going to Princeton. Sure enough,
Speaker 1: he goes to Princeton. So if you watch that game,
Speaker 1: there's a forty four on the sideline waving the towel
Speaker 1: that on that last back door. What do you remember
Speaker 1: about that game? Um? I was young? Were you you're young?
Speaker 1: You're like middle school. I was born in eighty okay,
Speaker 1: so you were You're seventeen? No, that was was that? Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1: That was no. No, I was ninety ninety six, so
Speaker 1: you're sixteen sixteen? Yeah, I remember it just as a
Speaker 1: Jersey guy in a in a kind of a hoops
Speaker 1: junkie at the time. You know, I didn't really so
Speaker 1: I transferred there as an eighteen I actually repeated my
Speaker 1: junior so eighteen year old I was there eighteen nineteen.
Speaker 1: That's when I really you were a mid high school
Speaker 1: career holdback. I was a hold back in eighth grade
Speaker 1: old back, Yeah I did. Did you get to play
Speaker 1: five years in Jersey if you go to a prep school? Oh?
Speaker 1: So it's a prep. So yeah, it's a prep. It's
Speaker 1: not an overnight prep. It's prep. But that's when I
Speaker 1: really hopped. I used to work their camps, you know,
Speaker 1: Coach CARMONDI you know, I funny story about a coach Kill.
Speaker 1: I was working their camp. I think Brian Earl, who's
Speaker 1: now the head coach, you know, he was an assistant
Speaker 1: at the time, and I want to say Sydney Johnson
Speaker 1: was the head coach, and I'd always work their camps.
Speaker 1: And we're doing like a three on three station and
Speaker 1: Coach Kill was there watching and he was with the
Speaker 1: Kings at the time, and he stops the whole he
Speaker 1: stops the whole segment, and Earl and Sidney Everyone's kind
Speaker 1: of looking like what's about to happen here? And at
Speaker 1: the time, Jason Williams White Chocolate was their point guard
Speaker 1: and Coach Kill, which no one would ever think with
Speaker 1: all the fundamentals. He gets out there and he starts
Speaker 1: whipping behind the back, passes off pick and rolls as
Speaker 1: like you know, he's probably seventy some at the time,
Speaker 1: and he goes, no, no, no, this is the best
Speaker 1: way to get it there, and Coach Caill's whipping behind
Speaker 1: the back passes off the pick and roll. So, you know,
Speaker 1: I really got into the Princeton stuff after heading there.
Speaker 1: I was a Middlesex County guy on my huge Rutgers fan.
Speaker 1: We had Rutgers season tickets. You know, I didn't I
Speaker 1: didn't hop on the Princeton stuff until I actually transferred
Speaker 1: down that way. Our first big East Road game was
Speaker 1: against Rutgers at the Rack, lost the fourteenth, lost the
Speaker 1: fourteen point lead, and lost in overtime at the Rack.
Speaker 1: So I I know, well, at the time, worst visitor
Speaker 1: locker room I'd ever experienced. I'd never seen anything like it.
Speaker 1: It was such a such a shit show. They've done
Speaker 1: what we played there last year. It's much upgraded. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they had they had to do with the big ten thing. Um,
Speaker 1: why did you go to Merrimack? What? What? What? What
Speaker 1: was it like at the time? What drew you to
Speaker 1: go into Merrimack cop so I I Trance I was.
Speaker 1: I started at a mass college, a liberal arts Division
Speaker 1: three school. I had two really good teammates in high school.
Speaker 1: Kid by the name of Justin Leith who went to
Speaker 1: UNC Wilmington to play for Jerry Waynwright, and Kidney Peter
Speaker 1: Downing went to Florida Atlantic. I think Sidney Green the
Speaker 1: coach at the time, and Justin. It was you know,
Speaker 1: at that time, if you went from one to two,
Speaker 1: you didn't have to sit. So Justin was at UNC
Speaker 1: Wilmington not playing a ton. Greg Horrenda, who's a Merrimack alum,
Speaker 1: was an assistant at East Carolina for Bill Harry and
Speaker 1: there's a lot of Merrimack here and he went up
Speaker 1: to you know, he kind of almost coached Justin in
Speaker 1: the handshake line playing UNC Wilmington, sending him to the right.
Speaker 1: So he, uh, my high school teammate goes to Merrimack,
Speaker 1: he visits, he calls me, he says, this place is awesome.
Speaker 1: I had a great visit, and next thing, you know,
Speaker 1: all three of us ended up at the same place.
Speaker 1: And I've kind of been there ever since. I played
Speaker 1: for coach. His name is Bert Hamill. He passed a
Speaker 1: few years ago. Courts named after him. He coached there
Speaker 1: for forty two years. And it's it's how I got
Speaker 1: into coaching is Bird. He only hired former assistants, I
Speaker 1: mean former players, players, and uh, you know in Division
Speaker 1: two you get one full time assistant. I was eight
Speaker 1: months out of college, had no business, you know, no
Speaker 1: experience to be a college head coach. But because of Bird,
Speaker 1: only higher and former players, he gave me an opportunity
Speaker 1: and uh kind of took took the opportunity and ran
Speaker 1: with it. So what was what was first? What's what
Speaker 1: was the school like when you went to it? So
Speaker 1: eighteen hundred undergrads when I graduated in two thousand and four. Right,
Speaker 1: always always a great place to go to school because
Speaker 1: of the people. Um, twenty twenty miles north of Boston. Uh,
Speaker 1: pretty social place, kind of cool, little party school, to
Speaker 1: be honest with you, it was always a fun place. Um.
Speaker 1: Since that time, you know, we have a new president
Speaker 1: of last ten years, doctor Chris Hobie. The school is
Speaker 1: grown like crazy. Now we're almost at five you know,
Speaker 1: we're over five thousand students with graduate students. New buildings
Speaker 1: everywhere um, just put a bowling alley golf simulators on
Speaker 1: campus like the Merrimack I went to and the Merrimack
Speaker 1: now are two completely different places. What was What was
Speaker 1: he like as a coach? Uh? He was the ultimate
Speaker 1: look after my players coach. You know, I think the
Speaker 1: best thing I learned from Bird is, you know, his
Speaker 1: office door was always open, no matter what was going on.
Speaker 1: He's dropping whatever he's doing, you know, to hang with
Speaker 1: his guys. He coached you hard. You know, he was
Speaker 1: tough on us, old school guy, um, old school New
Speaker 1: York City guy. But then he always hugged you afterwards,
Speaker 1: and you could go in there and talk to him
Speaker 1: about anything. He ran unbelievable practices. Everything was time and score.
Speaker 1: You know, not a ton of X and O, Bob
Speaker 1: Knight motion man to man, but every drill, you know,
Speaker 1: full court, one on one until you pass out, basically
Speaker 1: type of guy and time and a score on every
Speaker 1: single drill you do. And you know, the biggest stat
Speaker 1: he kept in practice was wins and losses, not as
Speaker 1: much you know, the true box score stats. And uh,
Speaker 1: there's a lot to be said for that. You know,
Speaker 1: I think if you can take that competitiveness and add
Speaker 1: it with some some of your own strategy and personality.
Speaker 1: It becomes a pretty good model for success. How good
Speaker 1: were you, guys? Just okay, just okay? Uh fish Um,
Speaker 1: I think we just missed missed the NCAA tournament. Um.
Speaker 1: I think the top eight teams in the region. Make it.
Speaker 1: My senior year, we were probably ten or eleventh in
Speaker 1: the region. Um. So it was. And then when I
Speaker 1: came back as an assistant, UM program even started to
Speaker 1: take off a little more. We went to three straight
Speaker 1: NCAA tournaments. From there, I left. Need better guards, That's
Speaker 1: all was. They just needed better guard. Yeah, we our
Speaker 1: phone court was loaded. We needed better guards. Fox Sports
Speaker 1: Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot
Speaker 1: com and within the iHeart Radio app. Search f SR
Speaker 1: to listen live. What was your plan or what would
Speaker 1: did your family think your plans should be in terms
Speaker 1: of post college before you decided to get into coaching,
Speaker 1: I was going home to teach. I was a business
Speaker 1: management major. I had no idea what I wanted to do.
Speaker 1: I went home and I was New Jersey has a
Speaker 1: it's called the alternate route. I started taking teaching classes,
Speaker 1: took an exam. I was a substitute teacher. I was
Speaker 1: coaching high school actually for a Princeton guy I met.
Speaker 1: Al McCauley, was their starting point guard at Princeton for years.
Speaker 1: He was the head coach at Princeton day I was
Speaker 1: his assistant coach. And that's what I was doing. I
Speaker 1: was gonna be a high school teacher, high school coach,
Speaker 1: and that was it. That was my path. And then
Speaker 1: this assistant job at Merrimack opened up, and Burgess called
Speaker 1: and basically said, what what day could you be here?
Speaker 1: And uh, and that was it. But I was on
Speaker 1: my way to be a probably a math teacher and
Speaker 1: a high school coach. There for four years right as
Speaker 1: an assistant yep, okay, I had aspirations to get into
Speaker 1: Division one, which, as you know, it's not that easy
Speaker 1: to do, especially when he didn't play at the level.
Speaker 1: I left and worked. I always worked camps for Rob
Speaker 1: Kennedy at the Hook Group. A lot of his you know,
Speaker 1: former employees went on to become Division one coaches because
Speaker 1: of the contacts you make from running the camp and
Speaker 1: the au contacts and high school contacts you gain. So
Speaker 1: I already figured I had some some coaching experience. I
Speaker 1: went and Rob offered me a job after I worked
Speaker 1: for him as a counselor at Eastern Invitational, and he
Speaker 1: offered me a job to be basically the director of
Speaker 1: Eastern Invitational, which is now called Hook Group Elite, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, nine months into that, I got offered an
Speaker 1: assistant coaching job with Paul Cormier at Dartmouth. What was
Speaker 1: Dartmouth like? Paul Cormier was great, another old school guy.
Speaker 1: He just came from the NBA. You know, he was
Speaker 1: played high school for Roli Messamino. He was an assistant
Speaker 1: for Rali at Villanova. He left to take Dartmouth for
Speaker 1: the first time right before they won the national championship
Speaker 1: as like a thirty two year old. Then he went
Speaker 1: to Fairfield. He was in the NBA for a long time,
Speaker 1: came back a second term at Dartmouth, and and that's
Speaker 1: that's who I ended up working for. But a little
Speaker 1: bit different Ivy League is. You know, obviously the academic
Speaker 1: hurdles non scholarship, right, so you got to do a
Speaker 1: lot more work as far as research and getting transcripts
Speaker 1: and figuring out families financial needs and before you ever
Speaker 1: get the yes or the no. There's a lot more
Speaker 1: that goes into it. But you're obviously around highly successful people,
Speaker 1: not only in the basketball world. Everyone in your hallway
Speaker 1: and you know other athletes you meet. You just meet
Speaker 1: a lot of highly driven, successful people. But uh, you know,
Speaker 1: from Dartmouth, I went to Robert Morris, Andy Toole, one
Speaker 1: of my best friends in the world. He got the
Speaker 1: Robert Morris job at twenty eight almost hired me the
Speaker 1: first time. Rob Kennedy convinced him he needed to hire
Speaker 1: someone older because he was young, So he hired someone
Speaker 1: over me the first time around. But he said, next
Speaker 1: time I have an opening, I'm gonna hire you. So
Speaker 1: eighteen twenty months later I went to work for Andy
Speaker 1: at Robert Morris. So when you go from Dartmouth where
Speaker 1: you have all those challenges and Dartmouth like for people
Speaker 1: don't know, like Animal Houses is based upon Dartmouth, right
Speaker 1: it is it? Like that? Is that? Is that an
Speaker 1: accurate portrayal? You talked about Merrimack being a good little
Speaker 1: party school, kind of twenty minutes north of dartmouths in
Speaker 1: in the woods, right, beautiful, but in the middle of nowhere,
Speaker 1: those very cool college town. Right. I was a not
Speaker 1: a great place for a thirty year you know, twenty
Speaker 1: eight to thirty year old single guy. Um. But if
Speaker 1: you go to school there or you're you're you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of alums come back and kind of retire
Speaker 1: buy houses in that area. There's like, you know, ski
Speaker 1: slopes and that type of thing. But seemed like a
Speaker 1: heck of a place to go to school. They have
Speaker 1: a frat road that if you drove by on a Monday,
Speaker 1: you just see people cleaning up the whole street, and
Speaker 1: I think there is some animal house aspect to it. Um. Okay,
Speaker 1: So what what was it like to transition to Pittsburgh
Speaker 1: working with a friend, um, moving all those aspects, What
Speaker 1: do you remember about the first days at Robert Morris Um.
Speaker 1: I came in at a actually you'll you'll like the
Speaker 1: first days that the team had already left, so it
Speaker 1: was June, not a whole lot to do at the time.
Speaker 1: There wasn't the June events. And I think within like
Speaker 1: the first five days working for Andy, we went to
Speaker 1: a Bruce Springsteen and a Kenny Chesney concert and I
Speaker 1: was like, man, this is great, this is this is
Speaker 1: a good life out here at Pittsburgh, But uh love
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh as a city. Um, they were. They had a
Speaker 1: lot of success under Mike Rice and then under Andy.
Speaker 1: Uh you know, different different kid, right, We had a
Speaker 1: lot of like tough, tough city kids. Um, it was
Speaker 1: really cool to work for, you know, a Paul Cormier
Speaker 1: who's kind of at the end of his career and
Speaker 1: Andy Tools at the beginning of his career and kind
Speaker 1: of taking later on in life like aspects of both
Speaker 1: of their their coaching styles. Um, but I love Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1: I met my wife there, um who's now followed me
Speaker 1: here obviously, But um, yeah, cool, cool place. Robert Morris,
Speaker 1: we had a great run in the NBC. Um, they're
Speaker 1: doing better things in the Horizon League now and and
Speaker 1: you know, knowing Andy, you know it won't be long
Speaker 1: before they're on top of that Horizon League. Well, there's
Speaker 1: a couple different aspects to it. First, how did you
Speaker 1: meet your wife? Uh, somewhat blind date. It was uh
Speaker 1: Andy's wife, Brooktool, one of her she worked at Dick
Speaker 1: Sporting Goods. One of her close friends at work previously
Speaker 1: worked with my wife at US Steel. And I was
Speaker 1: like the fifth wheel at a dinner with Andy and
Speaker 1: his wife and this other couple, and the girl just suggested, Hey,
Speaker 1: I think I got a friend for you. So you know,
Speaker 1: it's not blind anymore. With with you know, Internet and
Speaker 1: Google search and figuring out real quick, it wasn't totally blind.
Speaker 1: We we knew what each other looked like before we
Speaker 1: before we got together. Um, but that was that was
Speaker 1: that was how we met, kind of set up, set
Speaker 1: up through a mutual friend. First date was where first
Speaker 1: date was at a bar in the south side of Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1: What the local and I thought we were meeting for dinner. Um,
Speaker 1: my wife was was a little bit ner Rvis, so
Speaker 1: she decided not to eat. So it just it was
Speaker 1: just a couple of drinks. Pittsburgh has a great famous
Speaker 1: gyro spot called Mike and Tony's, So I was starving.
Speaker 1: I thought we were going for dinner, and four hours
Speaker 1: later there was no food involved. So I walked her
Speaker 1: to her car and then I went and like slammed
Speaker 1: two gyros afterwards about myself. What was her reaction to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, what, what what do you do? And You're like,
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a basketball I'm a college basketball coach. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she she actually thought that I had zero interest in
Speaker 1: her because the date was in June, and as you know,
Speaker 1: we're pretty busy in July. Yeah, so you know, six
Speaker 1: seven days after the first day, it was like, hey,
Speaker 1: by the way, you're basically not going to see me
Speaker 1: all month. And she thought that was a kind of
Speaker 1: a cover up bull Yeah. Yeah. Um, but she's she's
Speaker 1: with it now. I think at first her and you know,
Speaker 1: her family were in that mold of okay, well what
Speaker 1: else do you do? Um, which I love you still
Speaker 1: get that all the time, right, like, okay, you coach,
Speaker 1: You're like, what else do you do? That's what I do? Um?
Speaker 1: But she is, she's all in now. As a she
Speaker 1: knew nothing about basketball when I met her. Um. Now,
Speaker 1: she always asked me to quizzer during games and you know,
Speaker 1: throws out the you know, foul or defend or did
Speaker 1: you see that blob and tries to kind of make me.
Speaker 1: I asked this to a Mira Burraheim. Um, a couple
Speaker 1: of nights ago. I ask you. It's it's they ask
Speaker 1: you what else do you do? But there's also a
Speaker 1: when you say you're a college basketball coach, it's almost
Speaker 1: like when we were kids, and you'd say you're a
Speaker 1: used car sales Yeah. Yeah, like you're in higher education.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing you probably have a master's degree, right, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: but this, this is this is a legit profession. And
Speaker 1: yet somehow in many circles, the perception of it is
Speaker 1: like something fair is fair. That's sad, it's fair, And
Speaker 1: it's almost like the last thing we actually do sometimes
Speaker 1: it is coach basketball, right, like we're we're I don't know,
Speaker 1: we're we're teachers, we are psychiatrists, we are a lot
Speaker 1: of different things. We don't just you know, sit there
Speaker 1: drawing up out of bounce plays all day. Um, but
Speaker 1: yeah we we I still get it all the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what else do you do? What do you teach? Oh
Speaker 1: you don't teach? Oh that this time season's over. This
Speaker 1: must be great. You got all the time in the world,
Speaker 1: you got six months off. It's like, yeah, really try
Speaker 1: to who's going to be on our team next year?
Speaker 1: How do you how how do we as as a
Speaker 1: basketball community change that perception? You know what? I think
Speaker 1: we should start a reality show like a Day in
Speaker 1: the life of right, follow us around for a day
Speaker 1: or two and with some cameras and different times of
Speaker 1: the year, and uh, you know, see that our our
Speaker 1: summer vacation isn't isn't so much a teacher's vacation, right,
Speaker 1: and and again we have some downtime. I love, I
Speaker 1: used to love. I used to love this time of
Speaker 1: the year before the transfer portal went nuts. And now
Speaker 1: it's it's not as uh you're not as at ease
Speaker 1: anymore as it used to be. After the season. But
Speaker 1: you know, August is great. Always take a vacation in
Speaker 1: August and do have some some downtime there, but um,
Speaker 1: it really never stops. It's it's such a long it's
Speaker 1: really the only sport, you know, hockey as well, that
Speaker 1: that goes over both semesters. You got the summer term,
Speaker 1: you got I mean you coach these guys for for
Speaker 1: eight months for one season. You know. Some of these
Speaker 1: other sports, even college football, right, they start mid end
Speaker 1: August and then it's like two three months later they're done. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, ours is a you know, you got the highs,
Speaker 1: you got the lows. We had a we were two
Speaker 1: and twelve at one point and finish the season with
Speaker 1: eleven straight wins. Right, So my wife probably saw me
Speaker 1: at home and like the low of lows and the
Speaker 1: high highs, all within a two month period of the
Speaker 1: emotional roller coaster of being a coach. Twenty sixteen, the
Speaker 1: Merrimack Jab comes up on what happened an assistant athletic
Speaker 1: director whom and this is a good message for any
Speaker 1: younger coaches out there of always treating people right, especially
Speaker 1: within your department or just in life in general. But
Speaker 1: Brad Davis, who's now the athletic director at Mercyhurst in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: he was our sports information director when I was an
Speaker 1: assistant coach, and you know, he kept climbing and climbing
Speaker 1: at the time he was an assistant athletic director, and
Speaker 1: you know he shot me. I think it was like
Speaker 1: a direct message on Twitter. I think we are actually
Speaker 1: on an official visit when I was at Robert Morris
Speaker 1: and said, hey, I don't know if you heard the
Speaker 1: job opened, and you know, I think you'd be a
Speaker 1: great candidate. You know, we're trying to go Division one.
Speaker 1: We had great success here when you were an assistant coach.
Speaker 1: We're trying to get into the ANEC, which is a
Speaker 1: league that you're basically at the best program in the
Speaker 1: NBEC at the time. You know, it's like, I think
Speaker 1: between those two things, it would make a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: So you know, that's how it started. Probably interviewed introductory
Speaker 1: interview with Jeremy Gibson, athletic director. By two weeks after that,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, another visit to campus and ended
Speaker 1: up getting the job. But you know, it started through
Speaker 1: you know, a former sid who then became an assistant
Speaker 1: athletic director and now he's he's an athletic director himself.
Speaker 1: How'd you find out you got the job? I was
Speaker 1: called back to campus and I thought it was I
Speaker 1: was under the impression that it was a final interview
Speaker 1: and one other candidate, and I thought he was there
Speaker 1: bringing two of us back and you know, went over
Speaker 1: the president's office, which I thought was a final interview
Speaker 1: and he basically just offered me the job at the time,
Speaker 1: and I took it sight unseen. My wife was probably
Speaker 1: eight months four and a half weeks pregnant at the time. Wow,
Speaker 1: she was up the road at a Starbucks. I called
Speaker 1: her and said, I got the job. She said, what
Speaker 1: does it pay? I said, I have no FFing idea,
Speaker 1: but I'm taking it. So I think that was a
Speaker 1: little nerve racking U, But yeah, that's that is That
Speaker 1: is how I found out. So you take the job
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, your wife gives birth, right, yep, and
Speaker 1: at that point in time, you you know you're going
Speaker 1: to transition to D one, but you're not yet D one. Okay,
Speaker 1: So what is that experience? Slight? Take me through what
Speaker 1: it's like to coach in a program that's the Division
Speaker 1: two program going to be Division one. You can still
Speaker 1: play in the Division two tournament then, but not when
Speaker 1: you transition Division one. There's a lot going on there.
Speaker 1: What it actually the timeline, it took a couple of years.
Speaker 1: It wasn't right away. It was we are in talks
Speaker 1: um different conferences were interviewing us. Uh you know, I
Speaker 1: think the MAC THENEC both had some campus visits. So
Speaker 1: we were committed to paying whatever the pay is to go.
Speaker 1: We were just waiting on a league to invite us.
Speaker 1: So the first couple of years we were we were
Speaker 1: full blown Division two and then it wasn't until that
Speaker 1: last season that we announced I think in September that
Speaker 1: we accepted an invite to the ANC and then played
Speaker 1: a whole season after that so to be honest, it
Speaker 1: was the Northeast ten Division two league is really really
Speaker 1: good league, you know, as you could see from Stone
Speaker 1: Hills transition and this year they tied for second in
Speaker 1: our league. We were recruiting a lot of the same
Speaker 1: type of kids. I was very fortunate, you know, we
Speaker 1: got three guys from from coach Hurley, uh from Saint Anthony.
Speaker 1: You know, Javars Hayes was you would love him. He's
Speaker 1: a he's got some Doug gottlieman Ian. He was a
Speaker 1: almost two thousand point close to nine hundred assists all
Speaker 1: time nca steel leader Division one, two or three. First
Speaker 1: kid I ever brought the Merrimack as a head coach
Speaker 1: coach four years starting point guard, and he should have
Speaker 1: been a Division one player people missed. I don't know
Speaker 1: how he was not at you know, Saint Peter's or
Speaker 1: Wagner or any ANC or Max Scholl at the time.
Speaker 1: So it made it easy having a guy like that.
Speaker 1: We kind of had a generational player who was a
Speaker 1: senior the first year that we are eligible to be
Speaker 1: Division one and that we actually won the regular season
Speaker 1: ANC championship that year with those three stings. Anthony's guys
Speaker 1: as seniors. So when you have three guys at one,
Speaker 1: you know, played for a Hall of Fame guy in
Speaker 1: high school. In high school, one went to three straight
Speaker 1: NCAA Division two tournaments. You know, we upset Northwestern our
Speaker 1: second game ever in Division one, and a lot of
Speaker 1: it was like last night with Perdue having the young guards.
Speaker 1: Northwestern started I think two or three freshmen, and we
Speaker 1: had these old guys that have already won seventy five
Speaker 1: college basketball games, and we're just kind of been there,
Speaker 1: done that. Well, don't skip ahead on me. Okay, So
Speaker 1: you're so your first year, ye, who are you as
Speaker 1: a coach? Right? Because you sit there and you know
Speaker 1: you've been you know, you played for a great coach.
Speaker 1: He's got his own style. Then you're with Paul, he's
Speaker 1: got his own style. Then you with Andy, he's got
Speaker 1: his own style. Right, who are you your first year?
Speaker 1: I am probably closest to Andy, just because it was
Speaker 1: the most recent as far as you know. I was
Speaker 1: big conditioning tests and every Tuesday was you know, we
Speaker 1: had our conditioning and what was your conditioning tests? It was?
Speaker 1: It's actually I hope Andy listens to this because he'll
Speaker 1: make him sound a little soft. That's he's gone. He's
Speaker 1: gone to uh they're called ten and tens, and I
Speaker 1: think he's actually lightened his up because the Miami heats
Speaker 1: is actually not as hard. It's ten. You got to
Speaker 1: run ten lengths to the floor, five up and backs
Speaker 1: in a minute, and then you get a minute off,
Speaker 1: and you got to do it ten times, and it
Speaker 1: is it's it's brutal like the heat. Do it and
Speaker 1: now Andy gives two minutes in between each one. I
Speaker 1: don't do it anymore. He'll probably call me and tell
Speaker 1: me I'm soft because of it. We just get in
Speaker 1: shape by playing basketball. But you know, I think I
Speaker 1: was closer to Andy that first year, with a little
Speaker 1: bit of my own personality. We played his zone that
Speaker 1: now has taken on a life of its own. We
Speaker 1: played it at Robert Morris for two years. He's gone
Speaker 1: back to Man Demand. It's kind of gotten better, better
Speaker 1: and tweaked it every year, and now it's I don't
Speaker 1: know if you watched us play, but it's it's did
Speaker 1: you always play the zone? Though? Like I appreciate it,
Speaker 1: always played it? In seven years, I bet we've played
Speaker 1: twenty five possessions of Man Demand, in seven years, and
Speaker 1: that's because we threw some guys in at the end
Speaker 1: of the game that didn't know certain possessions. I mean,
Speaker 1: we are full blown zone and that's it, right, And
Speaker 1: I didn't know going into it. I had no idea
Speaker 1: how much of we were going to play, and a
Speaker 1: lot of it was this kid Juvars Hayes, who he
Speaker 1: just stole the ball so well in his own that
Speaker 1: we just stayed with it ever since. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: was trying to find myself. I didn't know what we
Speaker 1: wanted to do. I was a I worked with Patrick
Speaker 1: bee Line at Dartmouth, another close friend of mine. We
Speaker 1: watched every Michigan game because of it. I fell in
Speaker 1: love with the two guard. So we were a Syracuse
Speaker 1: version of two three zone with some John bee Line
Speaker 1: two guard and just until we stayed with the two
Speaker 1: guard stuff really up until this past year, with about
Speaker 1: twelve games to go, I got a freshman point guard,
Speaker 1: Jrvan Bennett, who I just kept watching going why am
Speaker 1: I have this? Why am I having this kid hit
Speaker 1: the wing cut to the corner and waiting to get
Speaker 1: it back three passes later before we actually kind of
Speaker 1: do something. So we went away We still have the
Speaker 1: two guard atos and stuff like that, but we've opened
Speaker 1: up a little more. We actually are a lot more.
Speaker 1: Nevada Smith from Marquette has helped me out a lot.
Speaker 1: We play a lot more pistol act shouldn't spread the
Speaker 1: floor a lot more like Marquette nowadays. Sorry to step again,
Speaker 1: but no, that's that's great. That's that's it's incredible, right
Speaker 1: because we we we You take pieces of things that
Speaker 1: you know, you like, you learn and you kind of
Speaker 1: put together and you put your own twist on it.
Speaker 1: Just this is this always is something I've wondered your
Speaker 1: zone team. Yeah, but then when you got run your
Speaker 1: offense against man to man? So do you even spend
Speaker 1: time with man concepts when you're in the in the preseason,
Speaker 1: Like how do you how do you handle that because
Speaker 1: you also have to teach the different kinds of man
Speaker 1: to man defensively, you know what your offense is going
Speaker 1: to go against. Yeah, that's that's challenging. I think my
Speaker 1: first year or two we did do some shell uh
Speaker 1: because of that, and then I decided, like, what the
Speaker 1: hell are we doing this? Four minutes of shell a
Speaker 1: day isn't making us better at man? A man anyway.
Speaker 1: I also didn't want the team to think we had
Speaker 1: a second defense, like I wanted them to be all
Speaker 1: in on the zone. And this is what we do, right,
Speaker 1: So what we do we try to take a scout team.
Speaker 1: You know, both do different types of ball screen coverages.
Speaker 1: But I do think it hurts us offensively early in
Speaker 1: the season because of it. But you just hope you
Speaker 1: get a bunch of competitive kids that want to win
Speaker 1: the drill, so they at least try very hard planning
Speaker 1: man to man. But it is a that is tough.
Speaker 1: We play man to man in all of our offensive segments.
Speaker 1: It's not the greatest man to man. I try to
Speaker 1: put an assistant coach in charge of at least like
Speaker 1: making sure guys are like at the center line and
Speaker 1: not hugging their man. And you know, we don't really
Speaker 1: call foul, so we kind of just let them beat
Speaker 1: the shit out of each other to at least help
Speaker 1: us play a little bit better defense. But it is
Speaker 1: a struggle. Well, and then the old expression is right
Speaker 1: that you always press the pressing team because they only
Speaker 1: used to go in against the press. And what about
Speaker 1: your own zone offense, right, I do wonder if it's
Speaker 1: I if guys are so used to your zone, which
Speaker 1: is different than other zones, does that affect your own
Speaker 1: zone offense? It does, to be honest, this year we
Speaker 1: were great against zone, but in most years I would
Speaker 1: actually like make fun of my team because when they
Speaker 1: play against our own zone, right, you know how it is,
Speaker 1: they want to show coach up, So like they come
Speaker 1: up with all these little things all we're gonna do that,
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna slip into the high post, and
Speaker 1: they're trying to almost like look at me like yeah,
Speaker 1: like we'll show you. And then when we go into
Speaker 1: a game and a man to man team goes into
Speaker 1: a hands up Harry two three, they kind of look
Speaker 1: at it and freeze sometimes and I'm thinking, like, well,
Speaker 1: what happened to those five guys that we're just trying
Speaker 1: to shrut our defense in practice twelve hours ago? So
Speaker 1: we've gotten better we have because of coaching zone. We
Speaker 1: have two or three things that we would probably do
Speaker 1: to maybe attack us that we use against other teams,
Speaker 1: and we keep it very simple. We don't kinda we
Speaker 1: don't try to go two nuts and have seventeen different sets.
Speaker 1: When a team goes and we got two or three
Speaker 1: go two's, two or three concepts and we usually get
Speaker 1: people out of it pretty quick. You know. It's funny
Speaker 1: about that is if you remember when Indiana was number
Speaker 1: one team in the country with Tom Crean, they played
Speaker 1: Syracuse in the Sweet sixteen and Mike Hopkins was still
Speaker 1: at Syracuse at the time, and I've hop played for
Speaker 1: my dad, Nay you like, I've known him forever, and
Speaker 1: we were talking about different stuff and he said, we're
Speaker 1: not really like they don't at Syracuse. They didn't really scout.
Speaker 1: They just you know, they just didn't and then at
Speaker 1: halftime they kind of figure out what you're doing and
Speaker 1: they'd adjust a little bit. But he said, you know,
Speaker 1: they're way more talented than us. Just he's gonna screw
Speaker 1: it up. And I was like, what do you mean.
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, he's gonna spend He's like, if
Speaker 1: it would have been one day, it was elade eight,
Speaker 1: they would have beat us. They've been fine because you
Speaker 1: don't have time to put all the stuff in. He
Speaker 1: just runs own offense, just play, read, react, you know,
Speaker 1: go accordingly. But because you have the week off, really
Speaker 1: smart offensive coaches, I would think themselves and trying to
Speaker 1: put too much stuff in like already run this from
Speaker 1: that that, and just get out of the general offensive
Speaker 1: zone offensive concept? Do you find that and teams you
Speaker 1: go against, Yeah, I feel the same way, and and
Speaker 1: you almost see everything new they're gonna try. You see
Speaker 1: within the first four minute media, right, everyone tries to
Speaker 1: get you on a lob like second play the game,
Speaker 1: and you know they they think it's the greatest thing ever.
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, I think that one day prep in
Speaker 1: teams that really just kind of ball are are the
Speaker 1: teams you struggle against the most. You know those you
Speaker 1: know different sets and overthinking it is not what you
Speaker 1: want to do. You end up just turning the ball over.
Speaker 1: So you get the job? How did you decide to
Speaker 1: put together your staff? Remember more, you're still D two budget,
Speaker 1: right and D two rules? How did you put to
Speaker 1: get your staff? So I only at the time it's
Speaker 1: it's one full time assistant and Mickey Burtnick, who was
Speaker 1: there working for for coach Hamill, who who I replaced,
Speaker 1: He played when I was an assistant, So it was
Speaker 1: kind of a no brainer. It was just keep the
Speaker 1: guy that was there. He was familiar with the school.
Speaker 1: I knew him very well, recruited a lot of the
Speaker 1: players on the team, and it was just, you know,
Speaker 1: the easiest transition. And then I brought Dave Richards with
Speaker 1: me as kind of a volunteer, and he was our
Speaker 1: ops ki at Robert Morris. He's now a really successful
Speaker 1: Division three head coach. I brought him with me from
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh and helped him get a like a permanent sub
Speaker 1: teaching job to kind of supplement some income. So that
Speaker 1: was my initial staff, just a guy who I coached
Speaker 1: and was already there, and I brought a guy with
Speaker 1: me from Robert Morris. When did you know official? When
Speaker 1: was it official that you're going to Vision one? It
Speaker 1: wasn't until so I guess September of night. That first
Speaker 1: season was nineteen twenty September of nineteen. I mean there
Speaker 1: was a couple you know, there was like a fall
Speaker 1: meeting where we thought we were going to get the
Speaker 1: year before where we thought we were gonna get the invite,
Speaker 1: and they just kind of pushed it back. And then
Speaker 1: there was a spring meeting and you know, all signs
Speaker 1: were pointing towards us getting in, but it took a
Speaker 1: couple of meetings for whatever reason for us to finally
Speaker 1: get the invite. So it wasn't until um, no, it
Speaker 1: would have been eighteen fall of eighteen, and then we
Speaker 1: finished that last Division two year and then nineteen twenty
Speaker 1: was our first year of you know, the transition phasebook.
Speaker 1: So when when you when we teach me about the
Speaker 1: transition phase, because I think there's so much unknown about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you didn't you knew that you knew the year before.
Speaker 1: We knew, Yes, we knew the year before. We knew
Speaker 1: September the year before. So we played a whole season
Speaker 1: knowing um that we were going to going to go um.
Speaker 1: And it's you know, it's it's the hardest part about
Speaker 1: it is the recruiting piece, Right. You got to sell
Speaker 1: to kids. You know, they were almost kids that would
Speaker 1: almost rather go Division two, right because I want to
Speaker 1: go play for something, right, your each year it got easier. Okay,
Speaker 1: the first class you'll never get the chance to play
Speaker 1: in an NCAA tournament, the second class you'll have a
Speaker 1: chance your senior year, junior year, etc. So the toughest
Speaker 1: part was the recruiting piece. To be honest, I think
Speaker 1: the reaction people thought I would have about not being
Speaker 1: able to play in the NCAA tournament if we did
Speaker 1: this pod the first year when we won the regular season,
Speaker 1: I didn't find out we were ineligible for the n
Speaker 1: I T until about three weeks left in the season, right,
Speaker 1: I think I would have had a little bit different
Speaker 1: take on that because this role we knew. You know,
Speaker 1: I was preaching to my team all year, like, we're
Speaker 1: gonna win this regular season, We're going to go to
Speaker 1: the n I t Who cares about the NCAA. We're
Speaker 1: gonna go to the n I And I don't know
Speaker 1: who it was that let me know, but with about
Speaker 1: three weeks left in the year and I was fighting
Speaker 1: for a regular season championship that year, had to inform
Speaker 1: the team like, hey, guys, even if we and we
Speaker 1: can't go to the n IT t um And we
Speaker 1: did win the regular season championship that year, that was
Speaker 1: a little bit harder because we didn't know that role.
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, some of our biggest wins at
Speaker 1: Robert Morris were in the n I T. We'd beat Kentucky,
Speaker 1: we beat Saint John's. I thought, hey, first year of transition,
Speaker 1: first team ever to win a regular season championship in
Speaker 1: their first year of Division one. Let's go to the
Speaker 1: n IT and play some unmotivated high major that doesn't
Speaker 1: want to be there, and we'll knock them off too
Speaker 1: and have some fun. And then you know that that
Speaker 1: felt Now that was the COVID years, there was no postseason,
Speaker 1: but that felt a little bit more like the rug
Speaker 1: was pulled out from under us versus four years later
Speaker 1: when kind of already been there, done that. I forgot
Speaker 1: that you were, that was your staff you were at
Speaker 1: when you guys beat Kentucky and then yeah, yeah, well
Speaker 1: what was that? Like? That was awesome. The coolest thing
Speaker 1: about that was and he called me and he said, hey,
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on, but you know, espn
Speaker 1: TO or whatever it is, they want me to be
Speaker 1: on a call on the selection show for the n I.
Speaker 1: He goes, something's up. Why would they want to talk
Speaker 1: to me? And what it was was, I think Rupp
Speaker 1: was being used for the NCAA coach. Cal is from
Speaker 1: Moon Township his I think his grandmother worked in the
Speaker 1: cafeteria at Robert Morris. So there was this whole story
Speaker 1: of like Cal's said, whatever, we'll go play at Robert Morris.
Speaker 1: It was like a homecoming. I mean, their practice had
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty of his former cronies. They're hanging
Speaker 1: out watching their practice, So that was like a homecoming
Speaker 1: for Cal. We we had a home game and it
Speaker 1: was wild. You know, we had I remember our secretary
Speaker 1: at the time telling us she had like seven thousand
Speaker 1: voicemails of Big Blue Nation looking for tickets, and you
Speaker 1: know she couldn't. She was used to get an eight
Speaker 1: calls for tickets. You know, our players were out about
Speaker 1: three and a half hours before that game. I thought
Speaker 1: they were going to wear themselves out. How how pumped
Speaker 1: they were for that game. And then we you know,
Speaker 1: it was one of the same. Yeah, we started eleven
Speaker 1: nothing and it was almost like, oh shit, what did
Speaker 1: we just get ourselves into. We got this pissed off
Speaker 1: team that got upset in their conference tournament versus this
Speaker 1: Kentucky team who was getting you know, slandered because they
Speaker 1: didn't make an NCAA tournament. And you know, I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know if they knew exactly what. You know,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you got this twenty eight hundred
Speaker 1: seat place with thirty five hundred people there I mean
Speaker 1: their players looked like they were nine feet tall in
Speaker 1: this in this place, and uh yeah, it was. It
Speaker 1: was awesome. It was one of the one of the
Speaker 1: great greatest nights as a coach I've ever been a
Speaker 1: part of. I can't imagine that, like the buzz afterwards,
Speaker 1: we can't sleep. You know, you're watching it, you're watching
Speaker 1: it on on the ESPN on replay, Like it's the
Speaker 1: the energy that you walk away with and then eventually
Speaker 1: that adrenaline wears up and you're just exhausted, exhausted. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And he said he felt like he felt like when
Speaker 1: Apollo when Apolo was it Rocky two or one, When
Speaker 1: when Apolo calls Rocky and says like, I want to
Speaker 1: fight you in Philadelphia. You know, that was kind of
Speaker 1: who we were. When when cal basically challenged us to
Speaker 1: a game in moon Township thinks it's a very good analogy.
Speaker 1: Um So, coming into this year, what do you think
Speaker 1: your team so we were we were preseason number one
Speaker 1: in the league. Um, well, a lot of that. We
Speaker 1: you know, we had the preseason Player of the Year.
Speaker 1: We probably just kind of had the most known, right,
Speaker 1: the most returning that people actually knew about you know,
Speaker 1: leagues like ours now, you're never going to be able
Speaker 1: to figure out who's the best team because there's so
Speaker 1: much you know, it's sad, but there's so much coming
Speaker 1: and going every year. I was a little bit nervous
Speaker 1: because we lost two transferred guards to the portal, um,
Speaker 1: so we had zero guard experience, um, but the best
Speaker 1: front court in the league coming back. So I was
Speaker 1: a little nervous about that. Our non conference schedule was
Speaker 1: absolutely brutal because of some prior success, nobody wants to
Speaker 1: play us anymore. UM, So I was, you know, worried
Speaker 1: about that We're gonna get beat up a little bit
Speaker 1: in the non conference. We got these freshman guards who
Speaker 1: are going to think like their confidence is going to
Speaker 1: be shot by the time we get to conference play.
Speaker 1: We start out, we didn't win a Division one game
Speaker 1: until after the new year, so all that stuff was
Speaker 1: was taking its toll on me a little. Well, let's
Speaker 1: let's let's go back to that. What is it like
Speaker 1: at your level to lose guys to the portal because
Speaker 1: it's like it's like your first point guard you have, right,
Speaker 1: you get it, you get a steal, you get to
Speaker 1: get who should be Division one, he goes Division two.
Speaker 1: But if that happens now, it's probably gone on. I
Speaker 1: mean probably gone on. I mean if you look now
Speaker 1: and a lot of these kids are not going to
Speaker 1: find schools. Any kid that averages ten points or more
Speaker 1: in Division two now they automatically go in the portal.
Speaker 1: I mean the trickle down, every level down you get,
Speaker 1: it's it's getting worse. Yeah. The only saving graces you
Speaker 1: can find some kids yourself, right, and you just got
Speaker 1: to adjust to that. You can't get emotional about it.
Speaker 1: You can't overreact. You know, there's plenty of good players
Speaker 1: out there. I'd love to keep all our guys for
Speaker 1: four years. I think that's one of the coolest things
Speaker 1: about coaching, is seeing these kids grow. But it's become
Speaker 1: so much more of a year to year thing. You know,
Speaker 1: we lost two guards. The other thing, I can't wait.
Speaker 1: Someone should write a story in about five years from now.
Speaker 1: These kids are making horrible mistakes, like you know, we
Speaker 1: we have. We have a guy in the portal right
Speaker 1: now who was the player of the year in our conference,
Speaker 1: and I told him, you better be careful because if
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you go to a higher level
Speaker 1: and you average six seven points a game versus back
Speaker 1: to back player of the year in our conference. Let
Speaker 1: people say that you would be the guy that could
Speaker 1: play at that level like your pro stock can really
Speaker 1: get hurt by almost exposing yourself and admitting that you're
Speaker 1: the third best player on your own team. UM. So
Speaker 1: I think a couple of years from now, there's going
Speaker 1: to be a lot more stories of why the heck
Speaker 1: did I do that? Versus I made a great choice.
Speaker 1: M But it just it just makes the offseason a lot.
Speaker 1: You know, you stare at your phone and go, Okay,
Speaker 1: who's going to text me today saying, hey, coach, because
Speaker 1: we meet tomorrow morning. Right, that's que for I'm leaving.
Speaker 1: Um and you know that do they do they all
Speaker 1: at least call you and meet with Yeah, they do,
Speaker 1: they do. And I have awesome kids, you know the
Speaker 1: kid even Any's and he's good and he can play
Speaker 1: at a higher level. And it was emotional. He was emotional.
Speaker 1: No one telling me that he was leaving. And I
Speaker 1: actually have no he spent four years with us, he
Speaker 1: got a degree from ARIMACKUM. I actually have no problem
Speaker 1: with that that he's a fifth year guy. Because of
Speaker 1: the COVID year, like, you know, go see what's out
Speaker 1: there and see what you could do. But you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys, you know, the two or
Speaker 1: you could hold every record like the day the days
Speaker 1: of like our Hall of Fames at school just gonna
Speaker 1: go away because no one really attaches themselves to a
Speaker 1: place as much anymore. Right, Honestly, if you ask, if
Speaker 1: I asked every guy on my team who their favorite
Speaker 1: NBA team is, they'll tell me they all just follow
Speaker 1: players now right, there's like no totally you know, like
Speaker 1: I'm a knicks man John Starts. It's interesting because but
Speaker 1: but what they what they don't get is not just
Speaker 1: the bad decisions, but it's like, Okay, are we gonna
Speaker 1: bude him back for the alumni game? Yeah? You know,
Speaker 1: are you gonna look at your your path? Obviously you
Speaker 1: weren't fence Player of the Year. But wherever you play
Speaker 1: the longest, especial wary, that's that's like your basketball family.
Speaker 1: That's where you're gonna get jobs from. That's who you're
Speaker 1: gonna and I just I can't imagine cutting that off.
Speaker 1: That just seems so foolish. And wherever you go to
Speaker 1: like you're not really in their family. If you're there
Speaker 1: for a nine month Nope, you're just your kind of
Speaker 1: a mercenary. You might not be after three months like
Speaker 1: you have. If you got one year, you got July, September,
Speaker 1: and October to prove yourself before that lineupset, like you
Speaker 1: could be three months from now saying what the hell
Speaker 1: did I do? Yeah, it's it's it's really crazy. Okay,
Speaker 1: So here's the question with this year. You mentioned you
Speaker 1: didn't win a Division one game. Wasn't just that I
Speaker 1: think I was looking and you didn't even have You
Speaker 1: weren't really close, right, The Sacred Heart game was close. Um,
Speaker 1: I think there was one other one Sacre Heart and
Speaker 1: and Maine lost a Maine at home, right. The rest
Speaker 1: weren't close. So then you so then you get to
Speaker 1: conference play and it's the level of competition you can
Speaker 1: compete in. But how do you teach the how do
Speaker 1: you how do you rebuild their confidence that they can win?
Speaker 1: But also how do you teach them to win when
Speaker 1: you haven't been in those you're talking about your your
Speaker 1: college coaches. Everything was time and score, like they're not
Speaker 1: used to having a lead in the last five minutes
Speaker 1: a game. How do you teach that that That main
Speaker 1: game was a perfect example of it. We just had
Speaker 1: no idea how to win yet FDU very first conference
Speaker 1: game of the year. We were controlling the whole game.
Speaker 1: We were up ten in the second half, and as
Speaker 1: soon as they took the lead, our time out looked
Speaker 1: like just a bunch of blank stares like here we
Speaker 1: go again, right, and it was rum were at least
Speaker 1: their kids. And here's where they get the benefit of
Speaker 1: having the three oh yeah, trans transfers up they would one.
Speaker 1: They add a division two levels so they know how
Speaker 1: to win. They know what it takes. You don't have
Speaker 1: to teach that whereas your kids and obviously you're going
Speaker 1: to get some other kids from the program. But as
Speaker 1: a group, they had had one for you know, they
Speaker 1: hadn't one uh you know what it was. We didn't
Speaker 1: change anything. We did. It was we did have some
Speaker 1: seniors that have had some success that we needed them
Speaker 1: to take a little bit of a step up. We
Speaker 1: had talented young guys and veterans that were kind of
Speaker 1: you know, I give them credit. At the last eleven games,
Speaker 1: they really stepped up and active like seniors, but they
Speaker 1: were taken a little too much of a back seat
Speaker 1: for my liking, and just kind of going along for
Speaker 1: the ride. And it was like I brought him in.
Speaker 1: I said, hey, guys, you won a championship as freshman.
Speaker 1: When you were gravy, you were just kind of a
Speaker 1: passenger on the bus. We need you to drive this
Speaker 1: thing now and give some of these younger guys confidence
Speaker 1: and make them believe. And I'll give our older guys credit.
Speaker 1: You know, people also don't when you look our kid
Speaker 1: who's leaving, who was the player there the conference. He
Speaker 1: missed seven seven games in the non conference, so that
Speaker 1: that's eighteen to nine we didn't have. Then we bring
Speaker 1: him back, right, and now you got to figure out
Speaker 1: again how to play with them. So our schedule was tough.
Speaker 1: We weren't playing great, but there was a lot more.
Speaker 1: There was a lot more internal stuff that people you
Speaker 1: can't really quantify, you know. And then once we got
Speaker 1: it all together right, like for instance, he didn't play
Speaker 1: he plays thirty two minutes a game at the five.
Speaker 1: We gotta take I don't trust our freshman young bigs. Yet.
Speaker 1: We got to take our four man and move him
Speaker 1: to the five in the zone. Then we got to
Speaker 1: take one of our guards and move him to the wing,
Speaker 1: and you just kind of all this shit you worked
Speaker 1: on since July. Everybody's playing different positions and the way
Speaker 1: we played defensively, that doesn't work. Well. You got to
Speaker 1: kind of master what you do. So some of it
Speaker 1: was just actually getting our team together that was going
Speaker 1: to be our team. But then like one win led
Speaker 1: to another and guys started believing, and uh, you know
Speaker 1: our freshman we started two freshman guards, right, and I
Speaker 1: think even Andy Toolson one who said to me, he goes,
Speaker 1: wait till they hit I think he said the five
Speaker 1: hundred minute mark. You know, once you played five hundred
Speaker 1: career college minutes, you've played a lot of basketball and
Speaker 1: you become a completely different person. And our two guards,
Speaker 1: Javan Bennett and Jordan Dirkak, you would have thought they
Speaker 1: were juniors or seniors by the end of the year,
Speaker 1: and they were just, you know, two eighteen nineteen year
Speaker 1: old kids. You get ready for the tournament and now
Speaker 1: you guys shore win and you kind of got it rolling.
Speaker 1: But it's it's a it's a tournament that if you
Speaker 1: win it first, how'd you get to play in the tournament?
Speaker 1: Like what Is that right? Yeah, I alould say there
Speaker 1: going like why then let him play in the tournament?
Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense. I know some other leagues
Speaker 1: started to do it, like Bellerman, Yeah, the same thing. Right,
Speaker 1: this becomes a little more of a story because after
Speaker 1: you actually won the game, but um Atlantic Sun did it,
Speaker 1: there was another conference or two that that that did it.
Speaker 1: I give our conference. I give our conference credit. They're
Speaker 1: kind of putting your neck out there a little bit,
Speaker 1: and what they did has changed the rule and after
Speaker 1: your second year, now you're at least eligible to play
Speaker 1: in the conference tournament. You know, they kind of did
Speaker 1: it as like a student athlete thing student athlete experience.
Speaker 1: We're not going to have a kid go through his
Speaker 1: whole career without having at least playing the conference tournament. Um.
Speaker 1: So I do give Nori morris Um, the commissioner of
Speaker 1: the NCAY, a lot of credit for, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of putting her neck on the line and allowing us
Speaker 1: to play in the tournament. And actually is a good
Speaker 1: genius just instaing. Did you did you give him? Was
Speaker 1: there a special speech or message about hey, why we
Speaker 1: want to win this tournament? Like just to prove that
Speaker 1: this rule is dumb or anything? Was there? There had
Speaker 1: to have been a speech there say there. We were
Speaker 1: playing so well, right, that was eight in a row.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to mess with anything. It was just
Speaker 1: like next game, next game, next game. I truly believed
Speaker 1: the way we were playing that nobody could beat us.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to. I didn't need any you know,
Speaker 1: we had this pow wow after we lost, after you
Speaker 1: at home, before we won the eleventh straight, and we
Speaker 1: kind of right, we righted the ship and the guys
Speaker 1: just took ownership over this thing that I just I
Speaker 1: stayed out of the way. I didn't want to, like,
Speaker 1: they didn't need one from the gipper. It was they
Speaker 1: kind of took this US against the world mentality, and
Speaker 1: I just kind of, you know, called a few plays,
Speaker 1: did one of these to get back on defense a
Speaker 1: couple of times, and just kind of sat there and
Speaker 1: watched these guys really go out there and perform. What
Speaker 1: was it like to win the conferencerent championship? Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was awesome on the home home floor. We just redid.
Speaker 1: We've been Division one hockey for years. We have a
Speaker 1: great little hockey arena that holds about thirty five hundred seats.
Speaker 1: Our gym itself is just kind of like a bigger
Speaker 1: or not even high school gym. We've transitioned to playing
Speaker 1: more games in this lawlor arena. It was awesome, if
Speaker 1: you know, two hundred courtside seats, a couple of bars,
Speaker 1: set up two dollars drafts for students, and when that
Speaker 1: last ball missed, I kind of just froze. I didn't
Speaker 1: really know what to do. I saw the poor kid,
Speaker 1: Dmitri Roberts, who's a hell of a player, you know,
Speaker 1: right in front of me, down on his knees, kind
Speaker 1: of picked him up, told him how much, you know,
Speaker 1: I respect him and what he's done over the year,
Speaker 1: Go get a win for the league, and kind of
Speaker 1: just froze. And it's cool to me to see everybody
Speaker 1: else celebrate m I bust one of my assistance, Pauls
Speaker 1: a little bit now, because you know, he ran out
Speaker 1: and joined the pilot like a player, and then he realized,
Speaker 1: oh shit, I'm a coach, and he kind of got
Speaker 1: back in line. But emotions are emotions, and you can't
Speaker 1: hold back what you're doing at the time, and um,
Speaker 1: but for me, it was just kind of taken all
Speaker 1: in I saw my wife and my son. Three minutes later,
Speaker 1: our guys ran and stole the trophy out of the
Speaker 1: commissioner's hands and started running around with it. And I
Speaker 1: don't think anyone at that time, nobody cared that we
Speaker 1: were not going to an NCAA tournament. It was like
Speaker 1: we just won a championship. We just won our second championship,
Speaker 1: and in two weeks and you know, we'll probably realize
Speaker 1: this when we turned on the TV and see we're
Speaker 1: not there. But our our celebration, our locker room, after
Speaker 1: our our happiness was was no different the tournaments about matchups, right,
Speaker 1: and everybody made a big deal, but their size were
Speaker 1: lacked thereof But having seen Perdue and talk and thought
Speaker 1: about them, it's not just that they that they pressed,
Speaker 1: but also they got older dudes going against the freshion backward. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't was struggling if there was a if there
Speaker 1: was a chance, if there was a way. Did you
Speaker 1: see a path to them beating Purdue? Not really, No,
Speaker 1: I just I thought it would be tough. I thought
Speaker 1: I didn't take into account the freshman guards on Purdue,
Speaker 1: because you know, when you're playing a press pressing team,
Speaker 1: you can get some easy stuff on the other end
Speaker 1: if you're smart, like at the end of the press
Speaker 1: and I just thought with their size and the front court,
Speaker 1: it would be like, you know, break the pressure. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't want to necessarily break the pressure, hit ahead
Speaker 1: and just take kind of hit ahead threes and take
Speaker 1: the bait all the time. I thought they would just
Speaker 1: kind of kind of get some lob dunks and some
Speaker 1: easy stuff. But yeah, you don't really think about that
Speaker 1: at the time, like, Okay, yeah they're high major guys,
Speaker 1: but they're freshman and these kids, I mean, this kid
Speaker 1: Roberts is he is a hell of a player. He
Speaker 1: won probably ninety Division two games and another twenty games
Speaker 1: this year. Like, when it got close, I'm thinking, this
Speaker 1: is going to be interesting because he's also a guy.
Speaker 1: It's either like he's gonna make or he's gonna miss.
Speaker 1: He's so quick, he's got stepped back, he's got shots
Speaker 1: off the bounce, he gets fouled, he's kicking his feet,
Speaker 1: he's throwing his body around. He's a tough, tough guard.
Speaker 1: So when this thing got close, I was like, man,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be like a maker. Miss Dmitri Roberts
Speaker 1: game and after you as a real chance to win
Speaker 1: this thing. But going in I'd be lying if I
Speaker 1: said they had a chance. The challenge for them is
Speaker 1: the same challenge for you that you have not just
Speaker 1: be a roster for yourself personally, right, but for you,
Speaker 1: like this is different. Yeah, you're played at Merrimack, you're
Speaker 1: an assistant Merrimack. You've helped win at Merrimack a Division two.
Speaker 1: Now you've won the Merrimack at Division one. What's a
Speaker 1: challenge like for you in terms of what you do,
Speaker 1: how your career trajectory goes. Yeah, I think the ultimate
Speaker 1: goal is to to you know, I'd love for our
Speaker 1: brackets to be going out next year in a million
Speaker 1: different offices and seeing our name on it. When I
Speaker 1: signed a contract after the first championship, it was a
Speaker 1: pretty long contract, and you know Merrimack or athletic director
Speaker 1: Jeremy Gibson and Chris Hope are president. You know, I
Speaker 1: basically said to them like, I would love for this
Speaker 1: to be my first Let's make this long term where
Speaker 1: this is not only my first but also my second
Speaker 1: Division one job, right, the first one being the transition,
Speaker 1: the second one being like, let's add to this thing.
Speaker 1: And you know, just last week there's contractors in looking
Speaker 1: at how to upgrade the locker room. You know, we move,
Speaker 1: we buy a court, we move over to the hockey arena.
Speaker 1: So it is transition into being my second job in
Speaker 1: a place I love. And uh, i'd like to see
Speaker 1: us on a on a on a bracket. Um, are
Speaker 1: you you're gonna go to the garden? Can you watch
Speaker 1: in the garden? Like if they you know, um, what
Speaker 1: what would be like if they advance to play in
Speaker 1: Sweet sixteen? For you? Um, I don't think I will go.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, more so I got it. You know, I
Speaker 1: have a I have a I have a you could
Speaker 1: be is it? Is it? Brian Winkle Boss? You're kind
Speaker 1: of the remember the other guy who is the Ryan
Speaker 1: Seacrests had the other host on Idol. That's that's kind
Speaker 1: of the your role right now. You're the guy who
Speaker 1: actually won the league and won the Yeah. Like I said,
Speaker 1: I think the more they win, the more our name
Speaker 1: keeps going out there. I actually appreciate you. You actually
Speaker 1: pronounce it right. Everyone else is like it says Mary
Speaker 1: mac like Mary Christmas, and you hit it right on
Speaker 1: with Merrimack. But I have a six and a two
Speaker 1: year old. Um, I'm away from home enough. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to make that trip to the garden. I'd be
Speaker 1: much happier sitting on my couch, drinking a beer my son,
Speaker 1: laying my son one on one in between commercials and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, rooting, rooting for them and watching and hoping
Speaker 1: their run continues. But I will not be there in person.
Speaker 1: Last thing and most important thing behind you. It looks
Speaker 1: like you're in your basement. Might probably identify the basement,
Speaker 1: which like looks like the boys fun room, playroom lately
Speaker 1: a little bunk bed. Uh uh? Do you take it
Speaker 1: easy on them? On the little hoop on the on
Speaker 1: the door? Do you take it easy on them? Or
Speaker 1: do you go? You go full speed? Are they allowed you?
Speaker 1: Just throw you just the cambamu tumble time they trans
Speaker 1: I hate to say this, but I rarely win. I
Speaker 1: really when I think I'll give it another, he'll be
Speaker 1: seven in June. I'll give him another. I don't know
Speaker 1: a couple of years before I actually start trying. But
Speaker 1: he U, it's been awesome the last year. He's huge
Speaker 1: Celtics guy. I'm from Jersey. I don't have the accent
Speaker 1: his starting with daycare up through now. I mean that
Speaker 1: you'd think the kids from South off. He tells you,
Speaker 1: markus smart. He's all Boston all day, so I do
Speaker 1: take it easy on him, but I think that'll change
Speaker 1: in the next couple of years. I can't tell you
Speaker 1: how much I appreciate this. Thanks. How good was that? Right?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's got to be hard sitting in your basement.
Speaker 1: Kids run around and you're watching after you kind of
Speaker 1: live your life. That's a that's a tough one. It's
Speaker 1: a tough one. But Joe's a really good coach with
Speaker 1: a really good program. It seems to have a really
Speaker 1: good balance about him. Might might Thanks so much to
Speaker 1: Joe for spending all this time with this on a Saturday.
Speaker 1: My thanks to you for downloading it. Mind of the
Speaker 1: Doug Outlet shows available daily three to five Eastern Time,
Speaker 1: twelve to two Pacific. Keep listening to keep downloading. Do
Speaker 1: you have any questions at Gottlieb show, Hit me up.
Speaker 1: I'm Doug Gottlib. This is all ball