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Speaker 1: Hey, what a welcome, and I'm Doug Gallo. Disc is

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Speaker 1: a ball and with the NCAA tournament continuing on, I

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Speaker 1: think you're really gonna like this one. Joe Gallo is

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Speaker 1: the head coach of Merrimack. You're like, wait, how do

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Speaker 1: I know that name? Well, as you're watching FDU pull

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Speaker 1: off an improbable upset of Purdue, the team that actually

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Speaker 1: won the NC beat FDU in the anec's championship game

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Speaker 1: is his memory team, but they're not eligible to go

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Speaker 1: because they're in the transition phase, transitioning to Division one.

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Speaker 1: Crazy as it may seems, it's got to be just

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Speaker 1: a weird existence to be watching a team go through

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Speaker 1: a run that you probably thought that could be me. Well,

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Speaker 1: last Joe about it, He's gonna join me upcoming quickly.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to give you some thoughts on Purdue losing

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Speaker 1: to FTERU. If you follow me on social media at

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Speaker 1: gottlieb Show, Twitter, Instagram, there's a Doug Gotlib Show fan

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Speaker 1: page on Facebook, you know this to be true. I've

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Speaker 1: become a proponent of five out basketball. Five out basketball

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Speaker 1: to those of you who aren't Hoopers, it's a lot

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Speaker 1: of times you go and see AU teams right where

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Speaker 1: they're just all five sitting outside the three point line.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's the basis of it, that you're always

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Speaker 1: playing five out you can flash somebody in the post.

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Speaker 1: I like cutters within it. I like a design, planned,

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Speaker 1: continuity sort of offense with as few a dribble handoffs

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Speaker 1: and ball screens as possible, not because I'm anti dribble

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Speaker 1: handoff and ball screen guy, but because so many teams

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Speaker 1: set their defense to your ball screen coverage, to your

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Speaker 1: DHO coverage anyway without getting too much in the weeds.

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Speaker 1: That's basically how FTERU plays combined with full court pressure,

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Speaker 1: and that's really the story of the game. Was not

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Speaker 1: their offense, although I do think that their offense helped

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Speaker 1: them with dagger shots. Also because of the continuous movement,

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Speaker 1: it tires you out. You know, it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: guarding Princeton back in the day. There's constantly cutting, constant movement.

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Speaker 1: You don't know what's coming next because it's not a planned,

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Speaker 1: set pattern offense, and when you get tired of guarding

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Speaker 1: on defense, it hurts you offensively. But their defense was

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Speaker 1: outstanding and it was really their game plan. They picked

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Speaker 1: up Bradon Smith and rattled him. He had seven turnovers.

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Speaker 1: Within the half court, they sagged off of, especially the

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Speaker 1: four men for Purdue, and dared them to shoot, and

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Speaker 1: when the dares were taken, they didn't make it. And

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Speaker 1: then there was a good portion the game where Purdue

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Speaker 1: got super tight and would even look at the basket.

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Speaker 1: My thoughts on Purdue is, like, I know, people so

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Speaker 1: badly want them to dramatically change. And if you've listened

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Speaker 1: to this podcast, we talked about a conversation I had

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Speaker 1: with Tony Bennett after they lost to a sixteen seed

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Speaker 1: and how I challenged him. I said, you know, have

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Speaker 1: you ever thought you gotta be willing to lose the

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Speaker 1: game in November and December to win a game in March?

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Speaker 1: And by that I mean try different lineups. See it

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Speaker 1: looks like to play small. Take a look at his zone.

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Speaker 1: I mean the first thing is I definitely would have

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Speaker 1: played zone yesterday. Why are we making our seven foot

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Speaker 1: four center run around the court try and chase a

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Speaker 1: guy he can't guard. And though it shouldn't be your

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Speaker 1: primary defense, you do want to have in your back

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Speaker 1: pocket just in case for just that sort of matchup.

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Speaker 1: Different variants of man and Man are great, but so

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Speaker 1: too is his zone. And I don't like zone at all,

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Speaker 1: but you've got to have it in your back pocket.

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Speaker 1: The other part two it is that I would I

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Speaker 1: would have challenged them to continue to put more and

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Speaker 1: more shooters out there. You know, they always played with

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Speaker 1: one of their two four men or Mason Gillis, and

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Speaker 1: when they when they didn't have Zach eating the game,

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Speaker 1: they'd always have his backup in the game because it's

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Speaker 1: technically a smaller lineup. But why can't you play Mason Gillis?

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Speaker 1: Why can't you play five out in your own right?

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Speaker 1: In regards to their guards and not having multiple ball

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Speaker 1: handlers guys that can break down a defense, I think

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Speaker 1: some of it is the reality to Purdue. Purdue is

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Speaker 1: not wired like some of these programs to go out

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Speaker 1: and get a guy the portal and play him right away.

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Speaker 1: You're not gonna be able to get a guy who

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Speaker 1: breaks down a defense that creates things, a high level

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Speaker 1: portal point guard who wants to be a produce sort

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Speaker 1: of guy. They've done a very good job of keeping

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Speaker 1: it within their sort of culture, maybe a step out

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Speaker 1: of it. So, but the problem is if you take

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Speaker 1: guys that don't fit your culture. Oftentimes that's what's led

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Speaker 1: to these disastrous seasons. But all that said, it was

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Speaker 1: still a linable basketball game. And between how much help

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Speaker 1: was on Zach Dye and their inability to get in

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Speaker 1: the ball and then Edie got the ball a couple

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Speaker 1: times late and he still didn't even look at the basket.

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Speaker 1: All of that stuff going on, I thought was a

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Speaker 1: team that life confidence, and part of it is. Now

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Speaker 1: it's three years in a row they've had these defeats

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Speaker 1: and it does wear on you. I would also tell

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Speaker 1: you that you know, like, look, if you want to

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Speaker 1: be honest, I don't think Zach Eady has ever known

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Speaker 1: what it's like to be a dominant player on his team.

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Speaker 1: Like that's a different role for him. He's never been

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Speaker 1: that guy. You have to learn those things over time.

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Speaker 1: You have to learn that, you know, there are times

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Speaker 1: which you got to take bad shots, you get double

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Speaker 1: team shoot the ball because that allows you to rebound.

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Speaker 1: On the week's side, he became passive. They became passive.

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Speaker 1: Nobody wanted to shoot the basketball. But to people who

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Speaker 1: want to say that this somehow, you know, means that

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Speaker 1: Tony Bennett or Matt Painter's programs are fraudulent. Which you

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Speaker 1: don't understand is it's almost two different sports, especially in

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Speaker 1: the Big Ten. To win the Big Ten, generally you

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Speaker 1: got to be able to score and defend inside. You

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Speaker 1: need big dudes you do. Big Ten football is like

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Speaker 1: this for years, where you couldn't win in the Big

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Speaker 1: Ten unless you could run the football and stop the run.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, when you get out of the

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Speaker 1: Big Ten, now the other teams have way more speed

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Speaker 1: than way more, way more, and I think I think

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Speaker 1: to the Big Ten. At least Ohio State has evolved.

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Speaker 1: Michigan's involved some in football. They need that same sort

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Speaker 1: of evolution which you're seeing at Penn State in basketball.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's get to this discussion. Merrimack's an amazing story

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Speaker 1: because they should be playing in the NSTA term, but

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Speaker 1: there is a rule of transitioning to Division one. Today.

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Speaker 1: The day after this gigantic upset, I got a chance

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Speaker 1: to catch up with Joe Gallab Mermack's head coach, and

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Speaker 1: he's an alum. This is how it went. So I

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Speaker 1: usually I like to usually do chronological order and start

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Speaker 1: with your career at Merrimentry, but I don't want to

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Speaker 1: bury the lead. Okay, um, what's the last I don't

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Speaker 1: know what this has been twelve twenty hours. Been like

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Speaker 1: watching the school that you be yeah to win the

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Speaker 1: conference tournament championship take down Purdue. Um. You know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of it's been more from the outside, right, friends

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Speaker 1: and you know, former teammates and former colleagues and kind

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Speaker 1: of responding to a lot of other people's emotion about

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Speaker 1: the situation. Right. Yeah. Obviously you you sit there and

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Speaker 1: watch and you picture your own team in that situation.

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Speaker 1: But it's been a it's kind of been four years

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Speaker 1: in the coming, like everybody is just finding out for

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Speaker 1: this this rule for the first time really because of us.

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Speaker 1: I think it's something that myself and our staff prepared for.

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Speaker 1: Mentally hits it hits home a little more when you

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Speaker 1: actually see the team out there playing. But I feel

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Speaker 1: a lot better than people would probably think. To be

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Speaker 1: perfectly honest with you, like when you text me and

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Speaker 1: I wrote back that was a true story. I was

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Speaker 1: watching the Merrimack you mass Loell semi final hockey's game

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Speaker 1: that we won in double overtime to go to the

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Speaker 1: finals against bu in the garden tonight which I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be heading out in a few here, so you know,

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Speaker 1: no hard feelings. I've known Tob and Anderson for a

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Speaker 1: long time. When he was at Stack and we were

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Speaker 1: D two Merrimack, he knocked us out of a Division

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Speaker 1: two NCAA tournament my first year as the head coach.

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Speaker 1: Since that game, we've scrimmaged every year since. You know,

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Speaker 1: they press, we play zone. No one wants to scrimmage

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Speaker 1: either one of our teams. Right. We got together and said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, if we play you in October, we'll

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Speaker 1: have all our press stuff in and if you play us,

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Speaker 1: you'll have all your zone stuff in. And we've played

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Speaker 1: ever since, so you know, I think the action most

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Speaker 1: people are looking for aren't what they're going to get

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Speaker 1: out of me. I'm happy for them, I'm happy for

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Speaker 1: the league. I think people really kind of should on

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Speaker 1: our league a lot this year. You know, when every

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Speaker 1: team's playing four or five guarantee games and your league

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Speaker 1: starts out oh and forty, your metrics are never going

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Speaker 1: to catch up to the league, right, And it's like

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Speaker 1: they go and do what they did, not only in

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Speaker 1: that game, I mean they twenty piece Texas Southern and

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Speaker 1: it wasn't even close. So I think for them to

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Speaker 1: do that gives our league a little bit more credibility.

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Speaker 1: And hey, you know, I feel bad for our guys because,

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Speaker 1: like I just told you, last time I saw you

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Speaker 1: was when I was an assistant at Robert Morris when

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Speaker 1: we played North Florida. I've fortunate enough to experience that

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Speaker 1: the whole deal of March madness. Unfortunately, our players won't

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Speaker 1: get to do that. That's the one thing I really

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Speaker 1: do feel bad for. But you know, let's after you

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Speaker 1: keep winning and have Merrimac's name keep getting put out

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Speaker 1: there because of it. Okay, so is there is there

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Speaker 1: a team group text that you're on. Um, there is,

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Speaker 1: but we haven't touched it. To be honest, our guys

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Speaker 1: don't want to watch. They say I can't watch. This

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Speaker 1: is where they go with it. Um. Yeah, no, I

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Speaker 1: can't blame like I, you know, I when I I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you experienced this when you're in the tournament.

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Speaker 1: But when you're in the tournament, you lose, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to run. It's just over. I can't. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know it. It hurts too to me. Basketball season. Basketball

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Speaker 1: season is over. Um, so let's now let's go back. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you grew up in Jersey. I did you go

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Speaker 1: to Princeton Day Yeah? If I went to Bishop bar

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Speaker 1: which is now Saint Thomas Aquinas and Edison, New Jersey, uh,

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Speaker 1: Middlesex County, and then I finished my last two years

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Speaker 1: at Princeton Day School. So was Princeton Day School. The

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Speaker 1: image I paint is everything is like Princeton Junior. Like

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Speaker 1: you even run shin and elbow in high school. Is

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Speaker 1: that accurate? It's pretty accurate. It's pretty accurate. Legendary high

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Speaker 1: school coach Alan tab back Um, he's a was a

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Speaker 1: close friend of Pete kill Um. We did run a

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Speaker 1: lot of Princeton stuff, and you're it's right up the

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Speaker 1: road and it's basically a j V. Princeton is what

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Speaker 1: it is. What do you remember about and or do

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Speaker 1: you remember about the last Princeton win, because my connection

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Speaker 1: to it is that would have been my freshman year

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Speaker 1: at UCLA. I was a lifetime UCLA band. They offered

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Speaker 1: me a scholarship and went to Notre Dame instead. And

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Speaker 1: then one of the players who's really waving the tabboard

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Speaker 1: and anything on that team, Darren Height. You'll love that

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Speaker 1: you'll love this. So Darren Hight we played together from

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Speaker 1: fourth grade on and he was an unsigned senior. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he played at Modern Day and he was like

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Speaker 1: a jack of all trades, master of none, right, probably

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Speaker 1: average six to seven a game. And he couldn't get

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Speaker 1: in on his own. He couldn't get into Harvard Princeton Yale,

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Speaker 1: and I mean, you know, like back then, fourteen hundred

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Speaker 1: plus sat for whatever GPA. Just couldn't get in. And

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Speaker 1: so my dad calls coach Carill and says, Pete, you

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Speaker 1: gotta take this kid. He's perfect for you. You know,

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Speaker 1: parents can afford it. Dad's a periodontist. So he's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't I don't need it. I

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Speaker 1: don't need a California kid. So he comes out and

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Speaker 1: on Friday night we practice him Modern Day and he

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Speaker 1: can't really tell in a practice. So the next day

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Speaker 1: we play a game and you know, we have like

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Speaker 1: Tonigan Zalez and Jared Henderson and Miles Simon. We we

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Speaker 1: got a squad and we decide that everything we do

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do for Darren. Right, We're gonna run him

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Speaker 1: off single doubles. You know, he's gonna play the point

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Speaker 1: could do it. He's got like thirty end of like

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Speaker 1: the third quarter, and my dad had a rule where

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Speaker 1: like take yourself out, you can put yourself back in, right,

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Speaker 1: So he's tired, he takes himself out, and then mid

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Speaker 1: fourth quarter he tries to like put himself back in.

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Speaker 1: My Dad's like, where are you going? He's like, what

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Speaker 1: do you mean I'm going back in the game. You know,

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Speaker 1: we have the rule I took myself out of. No, No,

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Speaker 1: set your ass down, You're going to Princeton. Sure enough,

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Speaker 1: he goes to Princeton. So if you watch that game,

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Speaker 1: there's a forty four on the sideline waving the towel

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Speaker 1: that on that last back door. What do you remember

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Speaker 1: about that game? Um? I was young? Were you you're young?

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Speaker 1: You're like middle school. I was born in eighty okay,

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Speaker 1: so you were You're seventeen? No, that was was that? Yeah? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: That was no. No, I was ninety ninety six, so

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Speaker 1: you're sixteen sixteen? Yeah, I remember it just as a

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Speaker 1: Jersey guy in a in a kind of a hoops

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Speaker 1: junkie at the time. You know, I didn't really so

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Speaker 1: I transferred there as an eighteen I actually repeated my

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Speaker 1: junior so eighteen year old I was there eighteen nineteen.

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Speaker 1: That's when I really you were a mid high school

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Speaker 1: career holdback. I was a hold back in eighth grade

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Speaker 1: old back, Yeah I did. Did you get to play

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Speaker 1: five years in Jersey if you go to a prep school? Oh?

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Speaker 1: So it's a prep. So yeah, it's a prep. It's

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Speaker 1: not an overnight prep. It's prep. But that's when I

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Speaker 1: really hopped. I used to work their camps, you know,

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Speaker 1: Coach CARMONDI you know, I funny story about a coach Kill.

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Speaker 1: I was working their camp. I think Brian Earl, who's

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Speaker 1: now the head coach, you know, he was an assistant

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Speaker 1: at the time, and I want to say Sydney Johnson

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Speaker 1: was the head coach, and I'd always work their camps.

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Speaker 1: And we're doing like a three on three station and

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Speaker 1: Coach Kill was there watching and he was with the

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Speaker 1: Kings at the time, and he stops the whole he

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Speaker 1: stops the whole segment, and Earl and Sidney Everyone's kind

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Speaker 1: of looking like what's about to happen here? And at

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Speaker 1: the time, Jason Williams White Chocolate was their point guard

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Speaker 1: and Coach Kill, which no one would ever think with

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Speaker 1: all the fundamentals. He gets out there and he starts

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Speaker 1: whipping behind the back, passes off pick and rolls as

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Speaker 1: like you know, he's probably seventy some at the time,

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Speaker 1: and he goes, no, no, no, this is the best

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Speaker 1: way to get it there, and Coach Caill's whipping behind

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Speaker 1: the back passes off the pick and roll. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: I really got into the Princeton stuff after heading there.

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Speaker 1: I was a Middlesex County guy on my huge Rutgers fan.

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Speaker 1: We had Rutgers season tickets. You know, I didn't I

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Speaker 1: didn't hop on the Princeton stuff until I actually transferred

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Speaker 1: down that way. Our first big East Road game was

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Speaker 1: against Rutgers at the Rack, lost the fourteenth, lost the

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Speaker 1: fourteen point lead, and lost in overtime at the Rack.

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Speaker 1: So I I know, well, at the time, worst visitor

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Speaker 1: locker room I'd ever experienced. I'd never seen anything like it.

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Speaker 1: It was such a such a shit show. They've done

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Speaker 1: what we played there last year. It's much upgraded. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they had they had to do with the big ten thing. Um,

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Speaker 1: why did you go to Merrimack? What? What? What? What

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Speaker 1: was it like at the time? What drew you to

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Speaker 1: go into Merrimack cop so I I Trance I was.

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Speaker 1: I started at a mass college, a liberal arts Division

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Speaker 1: three school. I had two really good teammates in high school.

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Speaker 1: Kid by the name of Justin Leith who went to

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Speaker 1: UNC Wilmington to play for Jerry Waynwright, and Kidney Peter

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Speaker 1: Downing went to Florida Atlantic. I think Sidney Green the

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Speaker 1: coach at the time, and Justin. It was you know,

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Speaker 1: at that time, if you went from one to two,

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Speaker 1: you didn't have to sit. So Justin was at UNC

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Speaker 1: Wilmington not playing a ton. Greg Horrenda, who's a Merrimack alum,

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Speaker 1: was an assistant at East Carolina for Bill Harry and

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of Merrimack here and he went up

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Speaker 1: to you know, he kind of almost coached Justin in

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Speaker 1: the handshake line playing UNC Wilmington, sending him to the right.

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Speaker 1: So he, uh, my high school teammate goes to Merrimack,

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Speaker 1: he visits, he calls me, he says, this place is awesome.

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Speaker 1: I had a great visit, and next thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: all three of us ended up at the same place.

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Speaker 1: And I've kind of been there ever since. I played

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Speaker 1: for coach. His name is Bert Hamill. He passed a

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Speaker 1: few years ago. Courts named after him. He coached there

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Speaker 1: for forty two years. And it's it's how I got

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Speaker 1: into coaching is Bird. He only hired former assistants, I

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Speaker 1: mean former players, players, and uh, you know in Division

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Speaker 1: two you get one full time assistant. I was eight

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Speaker 1: months out of college, had no business, you know, no

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Speaker 1: experience to be a college head coach. But because of Bird,

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Speaker 1: only higher and former players, he gave me an opportunity

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Speaker 1: and uh kind of took took the opportunity and ran

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Speaker 1: with it. So what was what was first? What's what

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Speaker 1: was the school like when you went to it? So

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundred undergrads when I graduated in two thousand and four. Right,

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Speaker 1: always always a great place to go to school because

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Speaker 1: of the people. Um, twenty twenty miles north of Boston. Uh,

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Speaker 1: pretty social place, kind of cool, little party school, to

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Speaker 1: be honest with you, it was always a fun place. Um.

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Speaker 1: Since that time, you know, we have a new president

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Speaker 1: of last ten years, doctor Chris Hobie. The school is

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Speaker 1: grown like crazy. Now we're almost at five you know,

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Speaker 1: we're over five thousand students with graduate students. New buildings

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Speaker 1: everywhere um, just put a bowling alley golf simulators on

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Speaker 1: campus like the Merrimack I went to and the Merrimack

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Speaker 1: now are two completely different places. What was What was

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Speaker 1: he like as a coach? Uh? He was the ultimate

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Speaker 1: look after my players coach. You know, I think the

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Speaker 1: best thing I learned from Bird is, you know, his

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Speaker 1: office door was always open, no matter what was going on.

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Speaker 1: He's dropping whatever he's doing, you know, to hang with

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Speaker 1: his guys. He coached you hard. You know, he was

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Speaker 1: tough on us, old school guy, um, old school New

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Speaker 1: York City guy. But then he always hugged you afterwards,

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Speaker 1: and you could go in there and talk to him

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Speaker 1: about anything. He ran unbelievable practices. Everything was time and score.

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Speaker 1: You know, not a ton of X and O, Bob

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Speaker 1: Knight motion man to man, but every drill, you know,

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Speaker 1: full court, one on one until you pass out, basically

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Speaker 1: type of guy and time and a score on every

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Speaker 1: single drill you do. And you know, the biggest stat

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Speaker 1: he kept in practice was wins and losses, not as

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Speaker 1: much you know, the true box score stats. And uh,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot to be said for that. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think if you can take that competitiveness and add

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Speaker 1: it with some some of your own strategy and personality.

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Speaker 1: It becomes a pretty good model for success. How good

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Speaker 1: were you, guys? Just okay, just okay? Uh fish Um,

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Speaker 1: I think we just missed missed the NCAA tournament. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think the top eight teams in the region. Make it.

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Speaker 1: My senior year, we were probably ten or eleventh in

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Speaker 1: the region. Um. So it was. And then when I

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Speaker 1: came back as an assistant, UM program even started to

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Speaker 1: take off a little more. We went to three straight

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Speaker 1: NCAA tournaments. From there, I left. Need better guards, That's

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Speaker 1: all was. They just needed better guard. Yeah, we our

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Speaker 1: phone court was loaded. We needed better guards. Fox Sports

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Speaker 1: Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

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00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot

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00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,680
Speaker 1: com and within the iHeart Radio app. Search f SR

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00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,880
Speaker 1: to listen live. What was your plan or what would

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00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 1: did your family think your plans should be in terms

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Speaker 1: of post college before you decided to get into coaching,

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Speaker 1: I was going home to teach. I was a business

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Speaker 1: management major. I had no idea what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: I went home and I was New Jersey has a

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Speaker 1: it's called the alternate route. I started taking teaching classes,

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Speaker 1: took an exam. I was a substitute teacher. I was

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Speaker 1: coaching high school actually for a Princeton guy I met.

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Speaker 1: Al McCauley, was their starting point guard at Princeton for years.

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Speaker 1: He was the head coach at Princeton day I was

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Speaker 1: his assistant coach. And that's what I was doing. I

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Speaker 1: was gonna be a high school teacher, high school coach,

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Speaker 1: and that was it. That was my path. And then

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Speaker 1: this assistant job at Merrimack opened up, and Burgess called

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Speaker 1: and basically said, what what day could you be here?

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Speaker 1: And uh, and that was it. But I was on

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Speaker 1: my way to be a probably a math teacher and

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Speaker 1: a high school coach. There for four years right as

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Speaker 1: an assistant yep, okay, I had aspirations to get into

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Speaker 1: Division one, which, as you know, it's not that easy

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Speaker 1: to do, especially when he didn't play at the level.

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Speaker 1: I left and worked. I always worked camps for Rob

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Speaker 1: Kennedy at the Hook Group. A lot of his you know,

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Speaker 1: former employees went on to become Division one coaches because

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Speaker 1: of the contacts you make from running the camp and

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Speaker 1: the au contacts and high school contacts you gain. So

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Speaker 1: I already figured I had some some coaching experience. I

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Speaker 1: went and Rob offered me a job after I worked

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Speaker 1: for him as a counselor at Eastern Invitational, and he

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Speaker 1: offered me a job to be basically the director of

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Speaker 1: Eastern Invitational, which is now called Hook Group Elite, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, nine months into that, I got offered an

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Speaker 1: assistant coaching job with Paul Cormier at Dartmouth. What was

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Speaker 1: Dartmouth like? Paul Cormier was great, another old school guy.

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Speaker 1: He just came from the NBA. You know, he was

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Speaker 1: played high school for Roli Messamino. He was an assistant

401
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Speaker 1: for Rali at Villanova. He left to take Dartmouth for

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Speaker 1: the first time right before they won the national championship

403
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Speaker 1: as like a thirty two year old. Then he went

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Speaker 1: to Fairfield. He was in the NBA for a long time,

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Speaker 1: came back a second term at Dartmouth, and and that's

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Speaker 1: that's who I ended up working for. But a little

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Speaker 1: bit different Ivy League is. You know, obviously the academic

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Speaker 1: hurdles non scholarship, right, so you got to do a

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Speaker 1: lot more work as far as research and getting transcripts

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Speaker 1: and figuring out families financial needs and before you ever

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Speaker 1: get the yes or the no. There's a lot more

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Speaker 1: that goes into it. But you're obviously around highly successful people,

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Speaker 1: not only in the basketball world. Everyone in your hallway

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Speaker 1: and you know other athletes you meet. You just meet

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Speaker 1: a lot of highly driven, successful people. But uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: from Dartmouth, I went to Robert Morris, Andy Toole, one

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Speaker 1: of my best friends in the world. He got the

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Speaker 1: Robert Morris job at twenty eight almost hired me the

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Speaker 1: first time. Rob Kennedy convinced him he needed to hire

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Speaker 1: someone older because he was young, So he hired someone

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Speaker 1: over me the first time around. But he said, next

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Speaker 1: time I have an opening, I'm gonna hire you. So

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Speaker 1: eighteen twenty months later I went to work for Andy

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Speaker 1: at Robert Morris. So when you go from Dartmouth where

425
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: you have all those challenges and Dartmouth like for people

426
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: don't know, like Animal Houses is based upon Dartmouth, right

427
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 1: it is it? Like that? Is that? Is that an

428
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: accurate portrayal? You talked about Merrimack being a good little

429
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 1: party school, kind of twenty minutes north of dartmouths in

430
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: in the woods, right, beautiful, but in the middle of nowhere,

431
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: those very cool college town. Right. I was a not

432
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: a great place for a thirty year you know, twenty

433
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: eight to thirty year old single guy. Um. But if

434
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: you go to school there or you're you're you know,

435
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: a lot of alums come back and kind of retire

436
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: buy houses in that area. There's like, you know, ski

437
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: slopes and that type of thing. But seemed like a

438
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: heck of a place to go to school. They have

439
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: a frat road that if you drove by on a Monday,

440
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 1: you just see people cleaning up the whole street, and

441
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: I think there is some animal house aspect to it. Um. Okay,

442
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 1: So what what was it like to transition to Pittsburgh

443
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: working with a friend, um, moving all those aspects, What

444
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: do you remember about the first days at Robert Morris Um.

445
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: I came in at a actually you'll you'll like the

446
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: first days that the team had already left, so it

447
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: was June, not a whole lot to do at the time.

448
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: There wasn't the June events. And I think within like

449
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: the first five days working for Andy, we went to

450
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: a Bruce Springsteen and a Kenny Chesney concert and I

451
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: was like, man, this is great, this is this is

452
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: a good life out here at Pittsburgh, But uh love

453
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh as a city. Um, they were. They had a

454
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: lot of success under Mike Rice and then under Andy.

455
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: Uh you know, different different kid, right, We had a

456
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: lot of like tough, tough city kids. Um, it was

457
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: really cool to work for, you know, a Paul Cormier

458
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: who's kind of at the end of his career and

459
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: Andy Tools at the beginning of his career and kind

460
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: of taking later on in life like aspects of both

461
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: of their their coaching styles. Um, but I love Pittsburgh.

462
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: I met my wife there, um who's now followed me

463
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: here obviously, But um, yeah, cool, cool place. Robert Morris,

464
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 1: we had a great run in the NBC. Um, they're

465
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: doing better things in the Horizon League now and and

466
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: you know, knowing Andy, you know it won't be long

467
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: before they're on top of that Horizon League. Well, there's

468
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: a couple different aspects to it. First, how did you

469
00:25:52,400 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: meet your wife? Uh, somewhat blind date. It was uh

470
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 1: Andy's wife, Brooktool, one of her she worked at Dick

471
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: Sporting Goods. One of her close friends at work previously

472
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: worked with my wife at US Steel. And I was

473
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: like the fifth wheel at a dinner with Andy and

474
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 1: his wife and this other couple, and the girl just suggested, Hey,

475
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: I think I got a friend for you. So you know,

476
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: it's not blind anymore. With with you know, Internet and

477
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: Google search and figuring out real quick, it wasn't totally blind.

478
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 1: We we knew what each other looked like before we

479
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: before we got together. Um, but that was that was

480
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: that was how we met, kind of set up, set

481
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: up through a mutual friend. First date was where first

482
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: date was at a bar in the south side of Pittsburgh.

483
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: What the local and I thought we were meeting for dinner. Um,

484
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: my wife was was a little bit ner Rvis, so

485
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: she decided not to eat. So it just it was

486
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: just a couple of drinks. Pittsburgh has a great famous

487
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: gyro spot called Mike and Tony's, So I was starving.

488
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: I thought we were going for dinner, and four hours

489
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: later there was no food involved. So I walked her

490
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: to her car and then I went and like slammed

491
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: two gyros afterwards about myself. What was her reaction to, like,

492
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: you know, what, what what do you do? And You're like,

493
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a basketball I'm a college basketball coach. Yeah,

494
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: she she actually thought that I had zero interest in

495
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: her because the date was in June, and as you know,

496
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: we're pretty busy in July. Yeah, so you know, six

497
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 1: seven days after the first day, it was like, hey,

498
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: by the way, you're basically not going to see me

499
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: all month. And she thought that was a kind of

500
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: a cover up bull Yeah. Yeah. Um, but she's she's

501
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: with it now. I think at first her and you know,

502
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: her family were in that mold of okay, well what

503
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: else do you do? Um, which I love you still

504
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: get that all the time, right, like, okay, you coach,

505
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: You're like, what else do you do? That's what I do? Um?

506
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: But she is, she's all in now. As a she

507
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 1: knew nothing about basketball when I met her. Um. Now,

508
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: she always asked me to quizzer during games and you know,

509
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: throws out the you know, foul or defend or did

510
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 1: you see that blob and tries to kind of make me.

511
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: I asked this to a Mira Burraheim. Um, a couple

512
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: of nights ago. I ask you. It's it's they ask

513
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: you what else do you do? But there's also a

514
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: when you say you're a college basketball coach, it's almost

515
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: like when we were kids, and you'd say you're a

516
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: used car sales Yeah. Yeah, like you're in higher education.

517
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: I'm guessing you probably have a master's degree, right, Like yeah,

518
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: but this, this is this is a legit profession. And

519
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: yet somehow in many circles, the perception of it is

520
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: like something fair is fair. That's sad, it's fair, And

521
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: it's almost like the last thing we actually do sometimes

522
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: it is coach basketball, right, like we're we're I don't know,

523
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: we're we're teachers, we are psychiatrists, we are a lot

524
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: of different things. We don't just you know, sit there

525
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: drawing up out of bounce plays all day. Um, but

526
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: yeah we we I still get it all the time. Yeah,

527
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: what else do you do? What do you teach? Oh

528
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: you don't teach? Oh that this time season's over. This

529
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: must be great. You got all the time in the world,

530
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: you got six months off. It's like, yeah, really try

531
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: to who's going to be on our team next year?

532
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: How do you how how do we as as a

533
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: basketball community change that perception? You know what? I think

534
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: we should start a reality show like a Day in

535
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: the life of right, follow us around for a day

536
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: or two and with some cameras and different times of

537
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: the year, and uh, you know, see that our our

538
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: summer vacation isn't isn't so much a teacher's vacation, right,

539
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: and and again we have some downtime. I love, I

540
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: used to love. I used to love this time of

541
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: the year before the transfer portal went nuts. And now

542
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: it's it's not as uh you're not as at ease

543
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: anymore as it used to be. After the season. But

544
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: you know, August is great. Always take a vacation in

545
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: August and do have some some downtime there, but um,

546
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: it really never stops. It's it's such a long it's

547
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: really the only sport, you know, hockey as well, that

548
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: that goes over both semesters. You got the summer term,

549
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,479
Speaker 1: you got I mean you coach these guys for for

550
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: eight months for one season. You know. Some of these

551
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: other sports, even college football, right, they start mid end

552
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: August and then it's like two three months later they're done. Um,

553
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: you know, ours is a you know, you got the highs,

554
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: you got the lows. We had a we were two

555
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: and twelve at one point and finish the season with

556
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: eleven straight wins. Right, So my wife probably saw me

557
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: at home and like the low of lows and the

558
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: high highs, all within a two month period of the

559
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: emotional roller coaster of being a coach. Twenty sixteen, the

560
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: Merrimack Jab comes up on what happened an assistant athletic

561
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: director whom and this is a good message for any

562
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: younger coaches out there of always treating people right, especially

563
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: within your department or just in life in general. But

564
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: Brad Davis, who's now the athletic director at Mercyhurst in Pennsylvania,

565
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: he was our sports information director when I was an

566
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: assistant coach, and you know, he kept climbing and climbing

567
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: at the time he was an assistant athletic director, and

568
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: you know he shot me. I think it was like

569
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: a direct message on Twitter. I think we are actually

570
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: on an official visit when I was at Robert Morris

571
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: and said, hey, I don't know if you heard the

572
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: job opened, and you know, I think you'd be a

573
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: great candidate. You know, we're trying to go Division one.

574
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: We had great success here when you were an assistant coach.

575
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: We're trying to get into the ANEC, which is a

576
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: league that you're basically at the best program in the

577
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: NBEC at the time. You know, it's like, I think

578
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: between those two things, it would make a lot of sense.

579
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: So you know, that's how it started. Probably interviewed introductory

580
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: interview with Jeremy Gibson, athletic director. By two weeks after that,

581
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, another visit to campus and ended

582
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: up getting the job. But you know, it started through

583
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: you know, a former sid who then became an assistant

584
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: athletic director and now he's he's an athletic director himself.

585
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: How'd you find out you got the job? I was

586
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: called back to campus and I thought it was I

587
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: was under the impression that it was a final interview

588
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: and one other candidate, and I thought he was there

589
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: bringing two of us back and you know, went over

590
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: the president's office, which I thought was a final interview

591
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: and he basically just offered me the job at the time,

592
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: and I took it sight unseen. My wife was probably

593
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: eight months four and a half weeks pregnant at the time. Wow,

594
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: she was up the road at a Starbucks. I called

595
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: her and said, I got the job. She said, what

596
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: does it pay? I said, I have no FFing idea,

597
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: but I'm taking it. So I think that was a

598
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: little nerve racking U, But yeah, that's that is That

599
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: is how I found out. So you take the job

600
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, your wife gives birth, right, yep, and

601
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: at that point in time, you you know you're going

602
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: to transition to D one, but you're not yet D one. Okay,

603
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: So what is that experience? Slight? Take me through what

604
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: it's like to coach in a program that's the Division

605
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: two program going to be Division one. You can still

606
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: play in the Division two tournament then, but not when

607
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: you transition Division one. There's a lot going on there.

608
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: What it actually the timeline, it took a couple of years.

609
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't right away. It was we are in talks

610
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: um different conferences were interviewing us. Uh you know, I

611
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: think the MAC THENEC both had some campus visits. So

612
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: we were committed to paying whatever the pay is to go.

613
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: We were just waiting on a league to invite us.

614
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: So the first couple of years we were we were

615
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 1: full blown Division two and then it wasn't until that

616
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: last season that we announced I think in September that

617
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: we accepted an invite to the ANC and then played

618
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: a whole season after that so to be honest, it

619
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: was the Northeast ten Division two league is really really

620
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: good league, you know, as you could see from Stone

621
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: Hills transition and this year they tied for second in

622
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: our league. We were recruiting a lot of the same

623
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: type of kids. I was very fortunate, you know, we

624
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: got three guys from from coach Hurley, uh from Saint Anthony.

625
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: You know, Javars Hayes was you would love him. He's

626
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: a he's got some Doug gottlieman Ian. He was a

627
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: almost two thousand point close to nine hundred assists all

628
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 1: time nca steel leader Division one, two or three. First

629
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: kid I ever brought the Merrimack as a head coach

630
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: coach four years starting point guard, and he should have

631
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: been a Division one player people missed. I don't know

632
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: how he was not at you know, Saint Peter's or

633
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: Wagner or any ANC or Max Scholl at the time.

634
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: So it made it easy having a guy like that.

635
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: We kind of had a generational player who was a

636
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: senior the first year that we are eligible to be

637
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: Division one and that we actually won the regular season

638
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: ANC championship that year with those three stings. Anthony's guys

639
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: as seniors. So when you have three guys at one,

640
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: you know, played for a Hall of Fame guy in

641
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: high school. In high school, one went to three straight

642
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: NCAA Division two tournaments. You know, we upset Northwestern our

643
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: second game ever in Division one, and a lot of

644
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: it was like last night with Perdue having the young guards.

645
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: Northwestern started I think two or three freshmen, and we

646
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 1: had these old guys that have already won seventy five

647
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: college basketball games, and we're just kind of been there,

648
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: done that. Well, don't skip ahead on me. Okay, So

649
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: you're so your first year, ye, who are you as

650
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: a coach? Right? Because you sit there and you know

651
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: you've been you know, you played for a great coach.

652
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: He's got his own style. Then you're with Paul, he's

653
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: got his own style. Then you with Andy, he's got

654
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: his own style. Right, who are you your first year?

655
00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: I am probably closest to Andy, just because it was

656
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: the most recent as far as you know. I was

657
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: big conditioning tests and every Tuesday was you know, we

658
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: had our conditioning and what was your conditioning tests? It was?

659
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: It's actually I hope Andy listens to this because he'll

660
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: make him sound a little soft. That's he's gone. He's

661
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: gone to uh they're called ten and tens, and I

662
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 1: think he's actually lightened his up because the Miami heats

663
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: is actually not as hard. It's ten. You got to

664
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: run ten lengths to the floor, five up and backs

665
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: in a minute, and then you get a minute off,

666
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: and you got to do it ten times, and it

667
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: is it's it's brutal like the heat. Do it and

668
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: now Andy gives two minutes in between each one. I

669
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: don't do it anymore. He'll probably call me and tell

670
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: me I'm soft because of it. We just get in

671
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: shape by playing basketball. But you know, I think I

672
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: was closer to Andy that first year, with a little

673
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: bit of my own personality. We played his zone that

674
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: now has taken on a life of its own. We

675
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: played it at Robert Morris for two years. He's gone

676
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: back to Man Demand. It's kind of gotten better, better

677
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: and tweaked it every year, and now it's I don't

678
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: know if you watched us play, but it's it's did

679
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: you always play the zone? Though? Like I appreciate it,

680
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: always played it? In seven years, I bet we've played

681
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: twenty five possessions of Man Demand, in seven years, and

682
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: that's because we threw some guys in at the end

683
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: of the game that didn't know certain possessions. I mean,

684
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: we are full blown zone and that's it, right, And

685
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 1: I didn't know going into it. I had no idea

686
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: how much of we were going to play, and a

687
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: lot of it was this kid Juvars Hayes, who he

688
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: just stole the ball so well in his own that

689
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: we just stayed with it ever since. But yeah, I

690
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: was trying to find myself. I didn't know what we

691
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: wanted to do. I was a I worked with Patrick

692
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: bee Line at Dartmouth, another close friend of mine. We

693
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: watched every Michigan game because of it. I fell in

694
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: love with the two guard. So we were a Syracuse

695
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: version of two three zone with some John bee Line

696
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: two guard and just until we stayed with the two

697
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: guard stuff really up until this past year, with about

698
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: twelve games to go, I got a freshman point guard,

699
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: Jrvan Bennett, who I just kept watching going why am

700
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: I have this? Why am I having this kid hit

701
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: the wing cut to the corner and waiting to get

702
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: it back three passes later before we actually kind of

703
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: do something. So we went away We still have the

704
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,919
Speaker 1: two guard atos and stuff like that, but we've opened

705
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: up a little more. We actually are a lot more.

706
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: Nevada Smith from Marquette has helped me out a lot.

707
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: We play a lot more pistol act shouldn't spread the

708
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: floor a lot more like Marquette nowadays. Sorry to step again,

709
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: but no, that's that's great. That's that's it's incredible, right

710
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: because we we we You take pieces of things that

711
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: you know, you like, you learn and you kind of

712
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: put together and you put your own twist on it.

713
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: Just this is this always is something I've wondered your

714
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: zone team. Yeah, but then when you got run your

715
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: offense against man to man? So do you even spend

716
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: time with man concepts when you're in the in the preseason,

717
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: Like how do you how do you handle that because

718
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: you also have to teach the different kinds of man

719
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: to man defensively, you know what your offense is going

720
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: to go against. Yeah, that's that's challenging. I think my

721
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: first year or two we did do some shell uh

722
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: because of that, and then I decided, like, what the

723
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: hell are we doing this? Four minutes of shell a

724
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: day isn't making us better at man? A man anyway.

725
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 1: I also didn't want the team to think we had

726
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: a second defense, like I wanted them to be all

727
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: in on the zone. And this is what we do, right,

728
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: So what we do we try to take a scout team.

729
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: You know, both do different types of ball screen coverages.

730
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: But I do think it hurts us offensively early in

731
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: the season because of it. But you just hope you

732
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: get a bunch of competitive kids that want to win

733
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: the drill, so they at least try very hard planning

734
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: man to man. But it is a that is tough.

735
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: We play man to man in all of our offensive segments.

736
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: It's not the greatest man to man. I try to

737
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: put an assistant coach in charge of at least like

738
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: making sure guys are like at the center line and

739
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: not hugging their man. And you know, we don't really

740
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: call foul, so we kind of just let them beat

741
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: the shit out of each other to at least help

742
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: us play a little bit better defense. But it is

743
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: a struggle. Well, and then the old expression is right

744
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: that you always press the pressing team because they only

745
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 1: used to go in against the press. And what about

746
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: your own zone offense, right, I do wonder if it's

747
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 1: I if guys are so used to your zone, which

748
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: is different than other zones, does that affect your own

749
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: zone offense? It does, to be honest, this year we

750
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: were great against zone, but in most years I would

751
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: actually like make fun of my team because when they

752
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: play against our own zone, right, you know how it is,

753
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: they want to show coach up, So like they come

754
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 1: up with all these little things all we're gonna do that,

755
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna slip into the high post, and

756
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: they're trying to almost like look at me like yeah,

757
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: like we'll show you. And then when we go into

758
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 1: a game and a man to man team goes into

759
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: a hands up Harry two three, they kind of look

760
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: at it and freeze sometimes and I'm thinking, like, well,

761
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: what happened to those five guys that we're just trying

762
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: to shrut our defense in practice twelve hours ago? So

763
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: we've gotten better we have because of coaching zone. We

764
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: have two or three things that we would probably do

765
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: to maybe attack us that we use against other teams,

766
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: and we keep it very simple. We don't kinda we

767
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: don't try to go two nuts and have seventeen different sets.

768
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 1: When a team goes and we got two or three

769
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,919
Speaker 1: go two's, two or three concepts and we usually get

770
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: people out of it pretty quick. You know. It's funny

771
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: about that is if you remember when Indiana was number

772
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: one team in the country with Tom Crean, they played

773
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: Syracuse in the Sweet sixteen and Mike Hopkins was still

774
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: at Syracuse at the time, and I've hop played for

775
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 1: my dad, Nay you like, I've known him forever, and

776
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: we were talking about different stuff and he said, we're

777
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: not really like they don't at Syracuse. They didn't really scout.

778
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: They just you know, they just didn't and then at

779
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: halftime they kind of figure out what you're doing and

780
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: they'd adjust a little bit. But he said, you know,

781
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,439
Speaker 1: they're way more talented than us. Just he's gonna screw

782
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: it up. And I was like, what do you mean.

783
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, he's gonna spend He's like, if

784
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: it would have been one day, it was elade eight,

785
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: they would have beat us. They've been fine because you

786
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 1: don't have time to put all the stuff in. He

787
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: just runs own offense, just play, read, react, you know,

788
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 1: go accordingly. But because you have the week off, really

789
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: smart offensive coaches, I would think themselves and trying to

790
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: put too much stuff in like already run this from

791
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 1: that that, and just get out of the general offensive

792
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: zone offensive concept? Do you find that and teams you

793
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: go against, Yeah, I feel the same way, and and

794
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 1: you almost see everything new they're gonna try. You see

795
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: within the first four minute media, right, everyone tries to

796
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: get you on a lob like second play the game,

797
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: and you know they they think it's the greatest thing ever.

798
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, I think that one day prep in

799
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: teams that really just kind of ball are are the

800
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: teams you struggle against the most. You know those you

801
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: know different sets and overthinking it is not what you

802
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: want to do. You end up just turning the ball over.

803
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: So you get the job? How did you decide to

804
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: put together your staff? Remember more, you're still D two budget,

805
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: right and D two rules? How did you put to

806
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: get your staff? So I only at the time it's

807
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 1: it's one full time assistant and Mickey Burtnick, who was

808
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: there working for for coach Hamill, who who I replaced,

809
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: He played when I was an assistant, So it was

810
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 1: kind of a no brainer. It was just keep the

811
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,720
Speaker 1: guy that was there. He was familiar with the school.

812
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: I knew him very well, recruited a lot of the

813
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: players on the team, and it was just, you know,

814
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,879
Speaker 1: the easiest transition. And then I brought Dave Richards with

815
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: me as kind of a volunteer, and he was our

816
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: ops ki at Robert Morris. He's now a really successful

817
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: Division three head coach. I brought him with me from

818
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,959
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh and helped him get a like a permanent sub

819
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: teaching job to kind of supplement some income. So that

820
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: was my initial staff, just a guy who I coached

821
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: and was already there, and I brought a guy with

822
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 1: me from Robert Morris. When did you know official? When

823
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: was it official that you're going to Vision one? It

824
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,919
Speaker 1: wasn't until so I guess September of night. That first

825
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: season was nineteen twenty September of nineteen. I mean there

826
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: was a couple you know, there was like a fall

827
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: meeting where we thought we were going to get the

828
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: year before where we thought we were gonna get the invite,

829
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: and they just kind of pushed it back. And then

830
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 1: there was a spring meeting and you know, all signs

831
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: were pointing towards us getting in, but it took a

832
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,280
Speaker 1: couple of meetings for whatever reason for us to finally

833
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: get the invite. So it wasn't until um, no, it

834
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: would have been eighteen fall of eighteen, and then we

835
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: finished that last Division two year and then nineteen twenty

836
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: was our first year of you know, the transition phasebook.

837
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: So when when you when we teach me about the

838
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,280
Speaker 1: transition phase, because I think there's so much unknown about it. Yeah,

839
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: so you didn't you knew that you knew the year before.

840
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: We knew, Yes, we knew the year before. We knew

841
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: September the year before. So we played a whole season

842
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:48,479
Speaker 1: knowing um that we were going to going to go um.

843
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,959
Speaker 1: And it's you know, it's it's the hardest part about

844
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 1: it is the recruiting piece, Right. You got to sell

845
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: to kids. You know, they were almost kids that would

846
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: almost rather go Division two, right because I want to

847
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: go play for something, right, your each year it got easier. Okay,

848
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: the first class you'll never get the chance to play

849
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: in an NCAA tournament, the second class you'll have a

850
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: chance your senior year, junior year, etc. So the toughest

851
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 1: part was the recruiting piece. To be honest, I think

852
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: the reaction people thought I would have about not being

853
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: able to play in the NCAA tournament if we did

854
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: this pod the first year when we won the regular season,

855
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: I didn't find out we were ineligible for the n

856
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: I T until about three weeks left in the season, right,

857
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: I think I would have had a little bit different

858
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: take on that because this role we knew. You know,

859
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 1: I was preaching to my team all year, like, we're

860
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: gonna win this regular season, We're going to go to

861
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: the n I t Who cares about the NCAA. We're

862
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: gonna go to the n I And I don't know

863
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 1: who it was that let me know, but with about

864
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: three weeks left in the year and I was fighting

865
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: for a regular season championship that year, had to inform

866
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: the team like, hey, guys, even if we and we

867
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 1: can't go to the n IT t um And we

868
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 1: did win the regular season championship that year, that was

869
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: a little bit harder because we didn't know that role.

870
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, some of our biggest wins at

871
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: Robert Morris were in the n I T. We'd beat Kentucky,

872
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: we beat Saint John's. I thought, hey, first year of transition,

873
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: first team ever to win a regular season championship in

874
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: their first year of Division one. Let's go to the

875
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: n IT and play some unmotivated high major that doesn't

876
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 1: want to be there, and we'll knock them off too

877
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 1: and have some fun. And then you know that that

878
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: felt Now that was the COVID years, there was no postseason,

879
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: but that felt a little bit more like the rug

880
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: was pulled out from under us versus four years later

881
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 1: when kind of already been there, done that. I forgot

882
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: that you were, that was your staff you were at

883
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: when you guys beat Kentucky and then yeah, yeah, well

884
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: what was that? Like? That was awesome. The coolest thing

885
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: about that was and he called me and he said, hey,

886
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on, but you know, espn

887
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: TO or whatever it is, they want me to be

888
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: on a call on the selection show for the n I.

889
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: He goes, something's up. Why would they want to talk

890
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 1: to me? And what it was was, I think Rupp

891
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 1: was being used for the NCAA coach. Cal is from

892
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: Moon Township his I think his grandmother worked in the

893
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: cafeteria at Robert Morris. So there was this whole story

894
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,240
Speaker 1: of like Cal's said, whatever, we'll go play at Robert Morris.

895
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 1: It was like a homecoming. I mean, their practice had

896
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty of his former cronies. They're hanging

897
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,280
Speaker 1: out watching their practice, So that was like a homecoming

898
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: for Cal. We we had a home game and it

899
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: was wild. You know, we had I remember our secretary

900
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: at the time telling us she had like seven thousand

901
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: voicemails of Big Blue Nation looking for tickets, and you

902
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: know she couldn't. She was used to get an eight

903
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,399
Speaker 1: calls for tickets. You know, our players were out about

904
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: three and a half hours before that game. I thought

905
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 1: they were going to wear themselves out. How how pumped

906
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: they were for that game. And then we you know,

907
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: it was one of the same. Yeah, we started eleven

908
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: nothing and it was almost like, oh shit, what did

909
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: we just get ourselves into. We got this pissed off

910
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: team that got upset in their conference tournament versus this

911
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: Kentucky team who was getting you know, slandered because they

912
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: didn't make an NCAA tournament. And you know, I don't

913
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if they knew exactly what. You know,

914
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you got this twenty eight hundred

915
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 1: seat place with thirty five hundred people there I mean

916
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: their players looked like they were nine feet tall in

917
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: this in this place, and uh yeah, it was. It

918
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 1: was awesome. It was one of the one of the

919
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: great greatest nights as a coach I've ever been a

920
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 1: part of. I can't imagine that, like the buzz afterwards,

921
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: we can't sleep. You know, you're watching it, you're watching

922
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 1: it on on the ESPN on replay, Like it's the

923
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: the energy that you walk away with and then eventually

924
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: that adrenaline wears up and you're just exhausted, exhausted. Yeah, yeah,

925
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: And he said he felt like he felt like when

926
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: Apollo when Apolo was it Rocky two or one, When

927
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: when Apolo calls Rocky and says like, I want to

928
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: fight you in Philadelphia. You know, that was kind of

929
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 1: who we were. When when cal basically challenged us to

930
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: a game in moon Township thinks it's a very good analogy.

931
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: Um So, coming into this year, what do you think

932
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: your team so we were we were preseason number one

933
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: in the league. Um, well, a lot of that. We

934
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, we had the preseason Player of the Year.

935
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: We probably just kind of had the most known, right,

936
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: the most returning that people actually knew about you know,

937
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,399
Speaker 1: leagues like ours now, you're never going to be able

938
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: to figure out who's the best team because there's so

939
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: much you know, it's sad, but there's so much coming

940
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 1: and going every year. I was a little bit nervous

941
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 1: because we lost two transferred guards to the portal, um,

942
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: so we had zero guard experience, um, but the best

943
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: front court in the league coming back. So I was

944
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: a little nervous about that. Our non conference schedule was

945
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: absolutely brutal because of some prior success, nobody wants to

946
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: play us anymore. UM, So I was, you know, worried

947
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: about that We're gonna get beat up a little bit

948
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: in the non conference. We got these freshman guards who

949
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 1: are going to think like their confidence is going to

950
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: be shot by the time we get to conference play.

951
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,439
Speaker 1: We start out, we didn't win a Division one game

952
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: until after the new year, so all that stuff was

953
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: was taking its toll on me a little. Well, let's

954
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: let's let's go back to that. What is it like

955
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,800
Speaker 1: at your level to lose guys to the portal because

956
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: it's like it's like your first point guard you have, right,

957
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 1: you get it, you get a steal, you get to

958
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: get who should be Division one, he goes Division two.

959
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: But if that happens now, it's probably gone on. I

960
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: mean probably gone on. I mean if you look now

961
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: and a lot of these kids are not going to

962
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: find schools. Any kid that averages ten points or more

963
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: in Division two now they automatically go in the portal.

964
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: I mean the trickle down, every level down you get,

965
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 1: it's it's getting worse. Yeah. The only saving graces you

966
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,919
Speaker 1: can find some kids yourself, right, and you just got

967
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: to adjust to that. You can't get emotional about it.

968
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: You can't overreact. You know, there's plenty of good players

969
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 1: out there. I'd love to keep all our guys for

970
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: four years. I think that's one of the coolest things

971
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: about coaching, is seeing these kids grow. But it's become

972
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: so much more of a year to year thing. You know,

973
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: we lost two guards. The other thing, I can't wait.

974
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: Someone should write a story in about five years from now.

975
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: These kids are making horrible mistakes, like you know, we

976
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: we have. We have a guy in the portal right

977
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: now who was the player of the year in our conference,

978
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: and I told him, you better be careful because if

979
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:05,439
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you go to a higher level

980
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,919
Speaker 1: and you average six seven points a game versus back

981
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 1: to back player of the year in our conference. Let

982
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 1: people say that you would be the guy that could

983
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: play at that level like your pro stock can really

984
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,879
Speaker 1: get hurt by almost exposing yourself and admitting that you're

985
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,800
Speaker 1: the third best player on your own team. UM. So

986
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: I think a couple of years from now, there's going

987
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 1: to be a lot more stories of why the heck

988
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: did I do that? Versus I made a great choice.

989
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: M But it just it just makes the offseason a lot.

990
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: You know, you stare at your phone and go, Okay,

991
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: who's going to text me today saying, hey, coach, because

992
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 1: we meet tomorrow morning. Right, that's que for I'm leaving.

993
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 1: Um and you know that do they do they all

994
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: at least call you and meet with Yeah, they do,

995
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 1: they do. And I have awesome kids, you know the

996
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: kid even Any's and he's good and he can play

997
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: at a higher level. And it was emotional. He was emotional.

998
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 1: No one telling me that he was leaving. And I

999
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: actually have no he spent four years with us, he

1000
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:09,240
Speaker 1: got a degree from ARIMACKUM. I actually have no problem

1001
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: with that that he's a fifth year guy. Because of

1002
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: the COVID year, like, you know, go see what's out

1003
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: there and see what you could do. But you know,

1004
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys, you know, the two or

1005
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,919
Speaker 1: you could hold every record like the day the days

1006
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: of like our Hall of Fames at school just gonna

1007
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: go away because no one really attaches themselves to a

1008
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: place as much anymore. Right, Honestly, if you ask, if

1009
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: I asked every guy on my team who their favorite

1010
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: NBA team is, they'll tell me they all just follow

1011
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 1: players now right, there's like no totally you know, like

1012
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: I'm a knicks man John Starts. It's interesting because but

1013
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 1: but what they what they don't get is not just

1014
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: the bad decisions, but it's like, Okay, are we gonna

1015
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: bude him back for the alumni game? Yeah? You know,

1016
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: are you gonna look at your your path? Obviously you

1017
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: weren't fence Player of the Year. But wherever you play

1018
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: the longest, especial wary, that's that's like your basketball family.

1019
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: That's where you're gonna get jobs from. That's who you're

1020
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,919
Speaker 1: gonna and I just I can't imagine cutting that off.

1021
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 1: That just seems so foolish. And wherever you go to

1022
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: like you're not really in their family. If you're there

1023
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 1: for a nine month Nope, you're just your kind of

1024
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 1: a mercenary. You might not be after three months like

1025
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: you have. If you got one year, you got July, September,

1026
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 1: and October to prove yourself before that lineupset, like you

1027
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 1: could be three months from now saying what the hell

1028
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: did I do? Yeah, it's it's it's really crazy. Okay,

1029
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 1: So here's the question with this year. You mentioned you

1030
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 1: didn't win a Division one game. Wasn't just that I

1031
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 1: think I was looking and you didn't even have You

1032
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 1: weren't really close, right, The Sacred Heart game was close. Um,

1033
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:57,320
Speaker 1: I think there was one other one Sacre Heart and

1034
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 1: and Maine lost a Maine at home, right. The rest

1035
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: weren't close. So then you so then you get to

1036
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 1: conference play and it's the level of competition you can

1037
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 1: compete in. But how do you teach the how do

1038
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: you how do you rebuild their confidence that they can win?

1039
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 1: But also how do you teach them to win when

1040
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: you haven't been in those you're talking about your your

1041
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: college coaches. Everything was time and score, like they're not

1042
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 1: used to having a lead in the last five minutes

1043
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: a game. How do you teach that that That main

1044
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: game was a perfect example of it. We just had

1045
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 1: no idea how to win yet FDU very first conference

1046
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: game of the year. We were controlling the whole game.

1047
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 1: We were up ten in the second half, and as

1048
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: soon as they took the lead, our time out looked

1049
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: like just a bunch of blank stares like here we

1050
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 1: go again, right, and it was rum were at least

1051
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: their kids. And here's where they get the benefit of

1052
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: having the three oh yeah, trans transfers up they would one.

1053
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: They add a division two levels so they know how

1054
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: to win. They know what it takes. You don't have

1055
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: to teach that whereas your kids and obviously you're going

1056
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: to get some other kids from the program. But as

1057
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 1: a group, they had had one for you know, they

1058
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: hadn't one uh you know what it was. We didn't

1059
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: change anything. We did. It was we did have some

1060
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 1: seniors that have had some success that we needed them

1061
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: to take a little bit of a step up. We

1062
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: had talented young guys and veterans that were kind of

1063
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, I give them credit. At the last eleven games,

1064
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: they really stepped up and active like seniors, but they

1065
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 1: were taken a little too much of a back seat

1066
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 1: for my liking, and just kind of going along for

1067
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: the ride. And it was like I brought him in.

1068
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: I said, hey, guys, you won a championship as freshman.

1069
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: When you were gravy, you were just kind of a

1070
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: passenger on the bus. We need you to drive this

1071
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: thing now and give some of these younger guys confidence

1072
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: and make them believe. And I'll give our older guys credit.

1073
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: You know, people also don't when you look our kid

1074
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 1: who's leaving, who was the player there the conference. He

1075
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: missed seven seven games in the non conference, so that

1076
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: that's eighteen to nine we didn't have. Then we bring

1077
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: him back, right, and now you got to figure out

1078
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: again how to play with them. So our schedule was tough.

1079
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: We weren't playing great, but there was a lot more.

1080
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: There was a lot more internal stuff that people you

1081
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: can't really quantify, you know. And then once we got

1082
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 1: it all together right, like for instance, he didn't play

1083
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: he plays thirty two minutes a game at the five.

1084
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: We gotta take I don't trust our freshman young bigs. Yet.

1085
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 1: We got to take our four man and move him

1086
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: to the five in the zone. Then we got to

1087
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 1: take one of our guards and move him to the wing,

1088
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: and you just kind of all this shit you worked

1089
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: on since July. Everybody's playing different positions and the way

1090
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: we played defensively, that doesn't work. Well. You got to

1091
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 1: kind of master what you do. So some of it

1092
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 1: was just actually getting our team together that was going

1093
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 1: to be our team. But then like one win led

1094
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: to another and guys started believing, and uh, you know

1095
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: our freshman we started two freshman guards, right, and I

1096
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 1: think even Andy Toolson one who said to me, he goes,

1097
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 1: wait till they hit I think he said the five

1098
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: hundred minute mark. You know, once you played five hundred

1099
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 1: career college minutes, you've played a lot of basketball and

1100
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 1: you become a completely different person. And our two guards,

1101
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: Javan Bennett and Jordan Dirkak, you would have thought they

1102
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: were juniors or seniors by the end of the year,

1103
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: and they were just, you know, two eighteen nineteen year

1104
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 1: old kids. You get ready for the tournament and now

1105
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: you guys shore win and you kind of got it rolling.

1106
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: But it's it's a it's a tournament that if you

1107
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: win it first, how'd you get to play in the tournament?

1108
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: Like what Is that right? Yeah, I alould say there

1109
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 1: going like why then let him play in the tournament?

1110
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense. I know some other leagues

1111
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 1: started to do it, like Bellerman, Yeah, the same thing. Right,

1112
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: this becomes a little more of a story because after

1113
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 1: you actually won the game, but um Atlantic Sun did it,

1114
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: there was another conference or two that that that did it.

1115
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 1: I give our conference. I give our conference credit. They're

1116
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:06,439
Speaker 1: kind of putting your neck out there a little bit,

1117
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 1: and what they did has changed the rule and after

1118
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: your second year, now you're at least eligible to play

1119
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 1: in the conference tournament. You know, they kind of did

1120
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 1: it as like a student athlete thing student athlete experience.

1121
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: We're not going to have a kid go through his

1122
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: whole career without having at least playing the conference tournament. Um.

1123
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 1: So I do give Nori morris Um, the commissioner of

1124
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 1: the NCAY, a lot of credit for, you know, kind

1125
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 1: of putting her neck on the line and allowing us

1126
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 1: to play in the tournament. And actually is a good

1127
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 1: genius just instaing. Did you did you give him? Was

1128
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 1: there a special speech or message about hey, why we

1129
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 1: want to win this tournament? Like just to prove that

1130
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 1: this rule is dumb or anything? Was there? There had

1131
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 1: to have been a speech there say there. We were

1132
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 1: playing so well, right, that was eight in a row.

1133
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 1: I didn't want to mess with anything. It was just

1134
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 1: like next game, next game, next game. I truly believed

1135
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 1: the way we were playing that nobody could beat us.

1136
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: I didn't want to. I didn't need any you know,

1137
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: we had this pow wow after we lost, after you

1138
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: at home, before we won the eleventh straight, and we

1139
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 1: kind of right, we righted the ship and the guys

1140
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: just took ownership over this thing that I just I

1141
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: stayed out of the way. I didn't want to, like,

1142
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: they didn't need one from the gipper. It was they

1143
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: kind of took this US against the world mentality, and

1144
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 1: I just kind of, you know, called a few plays,

1145
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 1: did one of these to get back on defense a

1146
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: couple of times, and just kind of sat there and

1147
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 1: watched these guys really go out there and perform. What

1148
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 1: was it like to win the conferencerent championship? Yeah, it

1149
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 1: was awesome on the home home floor. We just redid.

1150
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 1: We've been Division one hockey for years. We have a

1151
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: great little hockey arena that holds about thirty five hundred seats.

1152
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 1: Our gym itself is just kind of like a bigger

1153
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 1: or not even high school gym. We've transitioned to playing

1154
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: more games in this lawlor arena. It was awesome, if

1155
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: you know, two hundred courtside seats, a couple of bars,

1156
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 1: set up two dollars drafts for students, and when that

1157
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: last ball missed, I kind of just froze. I didn't

1158
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: really know what to do. I saw the poor kid,

1159
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 1: Dmitri Roberts, who's a hell of a player, you know,

1160
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: right in front of me, down on his knees, kind

1161
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 1: of picked him up, told him how much, you know,

1162
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: I respect him and what he's done over the year,

1163
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 1: Go get a win for the league, and kind of

1164
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: just froze. And it's cool to me to see everybody

1165
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: else celebrate m I bust one of my assistance, Pauls

1166
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,040
Speaker 1: a little bit now, because you know, he ran out

1167
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 1: and joined the pilot like a player, and then he realized,

1168
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 1: oh shit, I'm a coach, and he kind of got

1169
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: back in line. But emotions are emotions, and you can't

1170
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: hold back what you're doing at the time, and um,

1171
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 1: but for me, it was just kind of taken all

1172
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,440
Speaker 1: in I saw my wife and my son. Three minutes later,

1173
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: our guys ran and stole the trophy out of the

1174
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: commissioner's hands and started running around with it. And I

1175
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 1: don't think anyone at that time, nobody cared that we

1176
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 1: were not going to an NCAA tournament. It was like

1177
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 1: we just won a championship. We just won our second championship,

1178
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 1: and in two weeks and you know, we'll probably realize

1179
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 1: this when we turned on the TV and see we're

1180
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: not there. But our our celebration, our locker room, after

1181
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 1: our our happiness was was no different the tournaments about matchups, right,

1182
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 1: and everybody made a big deal, but their size were

1183
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 1: lacked thereof But having seen Perdue and talk and thought

1184
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 1: about them, it's not just that they that they pressed,

1185
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 1: but also they got older dudes going against the freshion backward. Um,

1186
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 1: I don't was struggling if there was a if there

1187
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 1: was a chance, if there was a way. Did you

1188
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 1: see a path to them beating Purdue? Not really, No,

1189
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 1: I just I thought it would be tough. I thought

1190
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 1: I didn't take into account the freshman guards on Purdue,

1191
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 1: because you know, when you're playing a press pressing team,

1192
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 1: you can get some easy stuff on the other end

1193
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 1: if you're smart, like at the end of the press

1194
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: and I just thought with their size and the front court,

1195
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 1: it would be like, you know, break the pressure. You know,

1196
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: you don't want to necessarily break the pressure, hit ahead

1197
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: and just take kind of hit ahead threes and take

1198
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: the bait all the time. I thought they would just

1199
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: kind of kind of get some lob dunks and some

1200
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: easy stuff. But yeah, you don't really think about that

1201
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 1: at the time, like, Okay, yeah they're high major guys,

1202
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 1: but they're freshman and these kids, I mean, this kid

1203
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:57,480
Speaker 1: Roberts is he is a hell of a player. He

1204
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 1: won probably ninety Division two games and another twenty games

1205
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: this year. Like, when it got close, I'm thinking, this

1206
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,479
Speaker 1: is going to be interesting because he's also a guy.

1207
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: It's either like he's gonna make or he's gonna miss.

1208
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: He's so quick, he's got stepped back, he's got shots

1209
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,959
Speaker 1: off the bounce, he gets fouled, he's kicking his feet,

1210
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 1: he's throwing his body around. He's a tough, tough guard.

1211
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 1: So when this thing got close, I was like, man,

1212
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 1: this is gonna be like a maker. Miss Dmitri Roberts

1213
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 1: game and after you as a real chance to win

1214
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 1: this thing. But going in I'd be lying if I

1215
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 1: said they had a chance. The challenge for them is

1216
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 1: the same challenge for you that you have not just

1217
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: be a roster for yourself personally, right, but for you,

1218
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: like this is different. Yeah, you're played at Merrimack, you're

1219
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 1: an assistant Merrimack. You've helped win at Merrimack a Division two.

1220
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 1: Now you've won the Merrimack at Division one. What's a

1221
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: challenge like for you in terms of what you do,

1222
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 1: how your career trajectory goes. Yeah, I think the ultimate

1223
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 1: goal is to to you know, I'd love for our

1224
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 1: brackets to be going out next year in a million

1225
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:14,440
Speaker 1: different offices and seeing our name on it. When I

1226
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: signed a contract after the first championship, it was a

1227
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 1: pretty long contract, and you know Merrimack or athletic director

1228
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 1: Jeremy Gibson and Chris Hope are president. You know, I

1229
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 1: basically said to them like, I would love for this

1230
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 1: to be my first Let's make this long term where

1231
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: this is not only my first but also my second

1232
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: Division one job, right, the first one being the transition,

1233
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: the second one being like, let's add to this thing.

1234
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: And you know, just last week there's contractors in looking

1235
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: at how to upgrade the locker room. You know, we move,

1236
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 1: we buy a court, we move over to the hockey arena.

1237
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 1: So it is transition into being my second job in

1238
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 1: a place I love. And uh, i'd like to see

1239
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 1: us on a on a on a bracket. Um, are

1240
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 1: you you're gonna go to the garden? Can you watch

1241
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 1: in the garden? Like if they you know, um, what

1242
01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:18,560
Speaker 1: what would be like if they advance to play in

1243
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 1: Sweet sixteen? For you? Um, I don't think I will go.

1244
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, more so I got it. You know, I

1245
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:30,679
Speaker 1: have a I have a I have a you could

1246
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 1: be is it? Is it? Brian Winkle Boss? You're kind

1247
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 1: of the remember the other guy who is the Ryan

1248
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 1: Seacrests had the other host on Idol. That's that's kind

1249
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 1: of the your role right now. You're the guy who

1250
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: actually won the league and won the Yeah. Like I said,

1251
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 1: I think the more they win, the more our name

1252
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,759
Speaker 1: keeps going out there. I actually appreciate you. You actually

1253
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 1: pronounce it right. Everyone else is like it says Mary

1254
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,680
Speaker 1: mac like Mary Christmas, and you hit it right on

1255
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 1: with Merrimack. But I have a six and a two

1256
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 1: year old. Um, I'm away from home enough. I'm not

1257
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 1: going to make that trip to the garden. I'd be

1258
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 1: much happier sitting on my couch, drinking a beer my son,

1259
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 1: laying my son one on one in between commercials and uh,

1260
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, rooting, rooting for them and watching and hoping

1261
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 1: their run continues. But I will not be there in person.

1262
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 1: Last thing and most important thing behind you. It looks

1263
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 1: like you're in your basement. Might probably identify the basement,

1264
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:30,720
Speaker 1: which like looks like the boys fun room, playroom lately

1265
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 1: a little bunk bed. Uh uh? Do you take it

1266
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:38,800
Speaker 1: easy on them? On the little hoop on the on

1267
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:40,519
Speaker 1: the door? Do you take it easy on them? Or

1268
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 1: do you go? You go full speed? Are they allowed you?

1269
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 1: Just throw you just the cambamu tumble time they trans

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01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 1: I hate to say this, but I rarely win. I

1271
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 1: really when I think I'll give it another, he'll be

1272
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 1: seven in June. I'll give him another. I don't know

1273
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,000
Speaker 1: a couple of years before I actually start trying. But

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01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 1: he U, it's been awesome the last year. He's huge

1275
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 1: Celtics guy. I'm from Jersey. I don't have the accent

1276
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 1: his starting with daycare up through now. I mean that

1277
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 1: you'd think the kids from South off. He tells you,

1278
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: markus smart. He's all Boston all day, so I do

1279
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:22,599
Speaker 1: take it easy on him, but I think that'll change

1280
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,680
Speaker 1: in the next couple of years. I can't tell you

1281
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 1: how much I appreciate this. Thanks. How good was that? Right?

1282
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's got to be hard sitting in your basement.

1283
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 1: Kids run around and you're watching after you kind of

1284
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 1: live your life. That's a that's a tough one. It's

1285
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 1: a tough one. But Joe's a really good coach with

1286
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 1: a really good program. It seems to have a really

1287
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 1: good balance about him. Might might Thanks so much to

1288
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 1: Joe for spending all this time with this on a Saturday.

1289
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 1: My thanks to you for downloading it. Mind of the

1290
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 1: Doug Outlet shows available daily three to five Eastern Time,

1291
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: twelve to two Pacific. Keep listening to keep downloading. Do

1292
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 1: you have any questions at Gottlieb show, Hit me up.

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01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm Doug Gottlib. This is all ball