1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 2: The US Special Council appointed to investigate claims of interference 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 2: in the twenty twenty election filed updated charges against Donald 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 2: Trump on Tuesday. With more, we've got Bloomberg News US 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 2: legal reporter Eric Larson. He's here in our Bloomberg Interactive 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 2: Brokers studio talk about a surprise fall of filing. 7 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 3: Come as it really did come as a surprise, and 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 3: of it, we were expecting there to be additional court 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 3: hearings in the case in Washington to see what was 10 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 3: going to happen next, whether or not the judge there 11 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 3: would just sort of decide on her own what charges 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 3: in the in the case could go forward given that 13 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 3: Supreme Court landmark ruling that presidents have some immunity from 14 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 3: criminal charges. So it was just a wait and see 15 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 3: what was going to happen with the case. And now 16 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 3: we know there's a so called superseding indictment, a brand 17 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 3: new indictment by Jack Smith. They've put in here that 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 3: according like this is their view of how the case 19 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 3: needed to given that landmark Supreme Court ruling in Trump's 20 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 3: favor largely, So now we'll sort of restart the case 21 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 3: a little bit as it moves forward here. 22 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, from what I understand, the new indictment cutting certain 23 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: allegations related to Trump's communications with government officials, including the 24 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: section related to his alleged efforts to involve the Justice Department, 25 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: But still those same for charges accusing him of conspiring 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: to overturn the results of the twenty twenty election still there. 27 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: So is it the whole idea is to make it 28 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: a stronger case for Jacksmith. 29 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 3: I think the idea is to make it a case that, 30 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 3: if when it returns to the Supreme Court, will survive 31 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 3: the new scrutiny that they've put up there. So it's 32 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 3: all going to boil down to whether or not everything 33 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 3: in the indictment can be viewed as an official act 34 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 3: or on the outer boundaries of an official act, or 35 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 3: whether it's private conduct. So Jack Smith's team is, you know, 36 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 3: clearly that they've gone through they had another grand jury. 37 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 3: You know, look at this, and I'm this is the 38 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 3: case that they think will survive the Supreme Court ruling 39 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 3: if it goes back to the Supreme Court. 40 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: So go ahead, Well, so what happens next? 41 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 3: So what happens next? I don't know exactly for sure. 42 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 3: But if I had to excuse yeah, well, there's no 43 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 3: chance of a trial happening before the election at this point. 44 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 3: Even before this superseding indictment was filed, that seemed like 45 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 3: it was off not going to happen. So what will 46 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 3: happen is the case will potentially have a new arguments 47 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 3: where Trump's lawyers will argue to dismiss this superseding indictment. 48 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 3: You can be sure they'll be disagreement over whether or 49 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 3: not this has been narrowed enough to fit the Supreme 50 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 3: Court ruling. Trump's lawyers may seek to narrow it further, 51 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 3: or to have the whole thing tossed out again is 52 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 3: another possibility. So it really remains to be seen if 53 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 3: this ever does go to trial. Of course, plenty of 54 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 3: people say if Trump wins, he'll just have this case 55 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 3: thrown out. If he loses, of course, then this case 56 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 3: we'll proceed. 57 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 2: Just reminder, this is completely separate from the Manhattan jury 58 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: on May thirtieth finding Trump guilty on thirty four counts 59 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 2: of falsifying business records. 60 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 3: Right right, that's a separate case. He was convicted in 61 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 3: that case that did go to trial, obviously. 62 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: And he'll be sentenced or the Dutch judge he's supposed 63 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 2: to be sentenced on September eighteenth. 64 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 3: That is correct, and we are waiting for a decision 65 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 3: from that judge, Juan Marshan here in Manhattan, on whether 66 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 3: or not to delay that sentencing until after the election. 67 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 3: Trump made sort of a last ditch motion saying that 68 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 3: it would be election interference for him to be sentenced 69 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 3: with the election so near, and some other arguments as well. 70 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 2: If back to the filing from today, if Trump does 71 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: win the election in November, can he make all of 72 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: this go away? 73 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 3: That is our understanding is that the Justice Department is 74 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 3: part of the executive branch, of course, and the president 75 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 3: has a lot of authority to pressure or direct the 76 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 3: Justice Department on cases. That's idly expected that that is 77 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 3: what Trump would do. It's less clear exactly what steps 78 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 3: he would have to go through to get there. For example, 79 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 3: if an Attorney general could theoretically challenge him on that. 80 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 3: But again, this is a lot of hypotheticals. But certainly 81 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 3: the legal experts that we've been speaking to for months 82 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 3: now theorized that if Trump is elected, he would have 83 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 3: this case tossed out. 84 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: Sure about the Jack Smith. Yes, I mean, this is 85 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: so remind us of kind of where we are on 86 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: the case the white Board cases against former President Donald Trump. 87 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 3: Sure, so the one that we know he's already lost. 88 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 3: He faces up to four years in prison on thirty 89 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: four counts of falsifying business records to hide that hush 90 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 3: money payment to Stormy Daniels before the twenty sixteen elections. 91 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 3: So it seems like so long, so long ago he 92 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 3: was in president when he wasn't president. But he argues, 93 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 3: actually that this immunity ruling from the Supreme Court affects 94 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 3: that trial as well, even though it had nothing to 95 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 3: do theoretically with being president. He said that the trial 96 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 3: that we have here in New York that we covered 97 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 3: was tainted by testimony and other evidence that wouldn't have 98 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 3: been allowed under this Supreme Court standard, because even though 99 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 3: the hush money was paid to Stormy Daniels before the 100 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen election, some of the witnesses were his White 101 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 3: House officials. The payments that he made, for example, were made, 102 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 3: you know, while he was president, repaying Michael Cohen his. 103 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 2: How does that work though, Well. 104 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: What he's saying is that some of the payments were 105 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: when he was once in the White House, but initially 106 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: the hush money was happened before he was even there. 107 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 3: It was made by Michael Cohen one hundred and thirty 108 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 3: thousand dollars and then he Cohen was and definitely before the. 109 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: Supreme Court ruling on immunity, right. 110 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 3: I mean it potentially is it is a long shot. 111 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 3: The Manhattan dishest attorney says, there's no way this has 112 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 3: an effect, and the case should the verdict should not 113 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 3: be thrown out. So we'll wait to see what happens 114 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 3: with that. Of course, the other Jack Smith case, the 115 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 3: other federal case that was brought over Trump's taking of 116 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 3: classified documents from the White House and his alleged obstruction 117 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 3: of efforts to get them back, that was dismissed by 118 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 3: Judge Eileen Cannon and Florida and the Special Counsel is 119 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 3: going to be appealing to try to get that case revived. 120 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: Wasn't there. And there's also the Georgia case. 121 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 3: There's the Georgia case. Yes, a lot of drama from 122 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 3: that one. It's sort of been on hold because of 123 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 3: the dispute over Fannie Willis. The Fulton County District attorney 124 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 3: there and the relationship that she had with the lead 125 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 3: her lead prosecutor, and so there's been an effort to 126 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 3: have her thrown out of the case. And I think 127 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 3: we're just waiting for something to happen on that. So 128 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 3: they have to straighten out the whole issue with that 129 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 3: prosecutor before anything can happen again in that case. 130 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: Unbelievable. 131 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, You're welcome. 132 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. That really puts it all in 133 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: perspective and gets us up to date. 134 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 3: I know, yeah, it's like, thank you. 135 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 2: That's Bloomberg News US legal reporter Eric Larson, who wasn't 136 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 2: scheduled to be on with us today, but so much. 137 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:00,799 Speaker 1: First, he's always to stay in August. 138 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 3: He's always be happy to be here.