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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to What Future. I'm your host, Joshua Topolski,

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Speaker 1: and I have to say I'm very excited about today's show.

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Speaker 1: You know, I feel like I say I'm excited about

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Speaker 1: every show. Into some degree, I am not to some

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Speaker 1: degree I am. I don't know why I'm qualifying that

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't understand why I would have to

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Speaker 1: augment that I do get excited about every show because

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Speaker 1: I get a chance to talk, and I think, as

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Speaker 1: everybody knows, that's my number one favorite thing to do

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Speaker 1: and probably my best I don't know about best quality.

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Speaker 1: I'm I think I'm pretty good at talking. I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that everybody wants to hear what I have to say,

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Speaker 1: but I think I'm good at the thing that is talking.

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Speaker 1: Like if there could be a skill that I could

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Speaker 1: be said to have, I feel like talking would be

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Speaker 1: one of the skills, or maybe the top skill. Here's

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Speaker 1: a great example of me doing it badly, weirdly enough,

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Speaker 1: And I don't want to waste too much time because

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Speaker 1: we have an amazing guest on the show today. Her

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Speaker 1: name is Jamie Loftus. She is a comedian, an Emmy

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Speaker 1: nominated TV writer, and actor, a podcast host actually host

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Speaker 1: of several has done several great podcasts that you should

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Speaker 1: listen to, and has just written a book called Raw

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Speaker 1: Dog The Naked Truth about hot Dogs, which is all

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Speaker 1: about hot dogs and it is like a wild travelog

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Speaker 1: and exploration of you know, what you would think is

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Speaker 1: a simple, simple food item, but it actually has quite

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Speaker 1: a complex story. Anyhow, I don't want to waste any

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Speaker 1: more time. Let's get Jamie on and talk about this

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Speaker 1: hot dog situation. Jamie, thank you for coming on the show.

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Speaker 1: First off for having me. You've got your knee up,

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Speaker 1: which is it looks like a very uncomfortable position. I

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Speaker 1: think that's a knee there, right, Is that what I'm saying? No,

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Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know. I guess that's when I

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Speaker 1: said it. For a second, I had a moment of

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Speaker 1: panic because I was like, what if that isn't a knee?

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Speaker 1: And then I was like, what could that be? What

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Speaker 1: if it's a really big arm? What if I was

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Speaker 1: really strong? I'm taking it down. I'm sorry, I don't

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Speaker 1: want I'm not trying to put you on the spot. Caryl.

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Speaker 1: I think it is like this is seating position. I've

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Speaker 1: never in my life. I've never done like, I've never

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Speaker 1: sat how you're sitting right now. I can tell you

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Speaker 1: I don't think even as a child. Maybe as a

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Speaker 1: child it looks comfortable. Actually, but I was like this

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Speaker 1: is that or knee? When you first came out, I

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Speaker 1: was like, that's a knee And it's like you don't

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Speaker 1: normally on a podcast on this you get this shot

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Speaker 1: of like head and shoulders or whatever. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to give a full service appearance, you know,

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Speaker 1: show some full services. Actually, how it? Actually? I guess

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Speaker 1: related You're adjacent to people I know and things, and

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Speaker 1: so I knew of you, but I never like fully

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Speaker 1: googled you because yeah, I'm not a sick creep. I

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Speaker 1: only do that for work purposes. One of the first

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Speaker 1: thing that comes up, and I didn't understand. I had

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Speaker 1: to ask Lyra, why is like the second Google thing

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Speaker 1: for you? Like how tall is Jamie aloft Us? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Is it? Yeah? And I guess it's because you're tall?

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Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yeah? Yeah, I'm six feet tall. So

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Speaker 1: I mean to put you on the spot. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about your knee and how your height. This is all

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Speaker 1: very uncomfortable stuff. I apologize. I feel very objective. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I am definitely. I'm six feet tall. I think it's

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Speaker 1: it's kind of funny. It's very tall. That's very tall.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty tall. Yeah, I've been touring. It's funny because

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Speaker 1: I've been touring with my friend Sarah, who is like

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Speaker 1: six foot two. Recently, I've been like, I'm rather petite. Really. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a tall crew right there. That's you know, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like model height situation going on there. That's intimidating. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We've just been doing like pick up volleyball. It's pretty exciting.

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Speaker 1: Really do tall people? Is that of volleyball? Like a

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Speaker 1: tall person activity? Yeah? I think that you can tell

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Speaker 1: how attracted a random person is to you by like

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Speaker 1: what they are, like, do you blank if you're a

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Speaker 1: taller woman, Like if they say you know really yeah,

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Speaker 1: Because if you're a tall woman and they think you're hot,

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Speaker 1: they'll be like, oh, are you a model? And then

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Speaker 1: you'll say no, sure, yeah that makes sense. Yeah. But

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Speaker 1: otherwise they'll be like do you play volleyball? And you're like,

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Speaker 1: all right, well so you us you're saying you're out,

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Speaker 1: you're having a beverage or whatever. Somebody comes up to

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Speaker 1: a random person approaches you and they say, you're pretty tall.

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Speaker 1: Do you play volleyball? That to you, you're saying the

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Speaker 1: signal is this person is not romantically interested in me.

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Speaker 1: Is that what I'm hearing? That's my general impression, and

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Speaker 1: that's just I. You know, other tall women may feel differently,

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Speaker 1: but I do feel like when a person defaults, and

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Speaker 1: I guess it's different. I'm thinking mostly men, But like

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Speaker 1: if if a man asks you do play volleyball? I

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Speaker 1: don't take that as a sign of interest. I take

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Speaker 1: that as a weird question that I'm being forced to answer.

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Speaker 1: It's a weird question. It's weird to think about. I've

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Speaker 1: had people ask me because I am tall if I

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Speaker 1: play basketball, which sort of I understand, because I also

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Speaker 1: think people don't have a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: people and this is not a knock on humanity, although

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Speaker 1: I will say, you know, it's all sorts of people

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Speaker 1: out there. Sure, I feel like a lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't have a lot of questions ready to go. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate no one's cut straight to the knee. I appreciate

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Speaker 1: you put the knee up there, and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: ask about it. That's just how it is to be fair,

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Speaker 1: I introduced the conversation starter. Yeah, I do feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. The height stuff is weird. I think something,

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Speaker 1: I get a lot and I don't know. This is

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Speaker 1: heavy speculation, but very often, and I've been trying to

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Speaker 1: parse us apart for years. I have a working theory,

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Speaker 1: but I don't really know. Is like people are surprised

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Speaker 1: to hear that I'm tall as I am based on

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Speaker 1: my personality, like if they only know my voice, they

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Speaker 1: only know like they've never liked met me in person.

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Speaker 1: They're surprised that I am as tall as I am.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a tall personality to others. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: could I say as a tall person, especially in the

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Speaker 1: last several years where where a lot of people are

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Speaker 1: interacting with you on like this, like a zoom call

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Speaker 1: or whatever, I have gotten a lot of I always

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Speaker 1: have gotten this. So it might just be being a

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Speaker 1: tall person is a thing that people don't perceive, like

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Speaker 1: if they don't if they haven't actually physically been in

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Speaker 1: your presence. I have noticed that certainly in the last

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Speaker 1: few years when I've met people, everybody seems very surprised.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that you're that you're not have a

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Speaker 1: unique experience, and that your experience isn't valid and special.

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Speaker 1: I just want to be clear. I'm not trying to

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Speaker 1: take you have to be special. I mean, I know, Well,

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Speaker 1: I just wonder why it is. Yeah, it's possibly just

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Speaker 1: a tall person thing where people are consistently thinking that

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Speaker 1: they're not going to be tall. That like you just

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Speaker 1: expect maybe average height people, Like if you're not a

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Speaker 1: tall person, yeah, you might be constantly expecting people to

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Speaker 1: be whatever height you are. I'm not sure, but I

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Speaker 1: don't expect people to be tall, so you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know maybe this series, Yeah, I don't expect people

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Speaker 1: to be tall either. I think it's like the examples

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Speaker 1: I go to her, like other tall women specifically who

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Speaker 1: I know I feel like have a tall personality and

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Speaker 1: qualifying what that is is confusing. But like there's a

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Speaker 1: comedian who I know and love, Marcella Arquia, who is

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Speaker 1: six foot two, I think, and she like has the

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Speaker 1: personality of someone who is six foot two, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like I project a lower height and

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Speaker 1: I don't. I choose not to judge myself for that,

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Speaker 1: but I do think maybe it's I I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe given a five six versus a six feet that's

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Speaker 1: what you think your personality suggests as five six? I

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Speaker 1: think so so like one inch above average? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you think you think your personality is just a little

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Speaker 1: bit above average. I think no height to personality match.

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Speaker 1: I mean my working theory right now, as it has

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Speaker 1: to do with how you talk and like I have

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Speaker 1: a low, softer voice, and I feel like that's not

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Speaker 1: qualities associated with with tall women. I don't know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I mean I've never considered it. I wish

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Speaker 1: I hadn't told you that I was tall now, because

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Speaker 1: then I could have we could have asked you if

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Speaker 1: it's if I sound like I'm tall, Like do I

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Speaker 1: sound tall? I mean, now you know, but I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean you can't and once you know you can't,

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Speaker 1: you kind of can't go back, and then you're like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course he's tall. I mean I'm stuck, like when

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Speaker 1: I hear myself, I'm stuck with like the kid who

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Speaker 1: said I sounded like Kermit the Frog when I was

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Speaker 1: twelve or something, which like really hurt my feelings. And

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Speaker 1: then I think I might have for a short period

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Speaker 1: of time acquired the nickname Kermit Shank or you like.

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Speaker 1: Definitely No. I had a really weird schooling experience where

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Speaker 1: I missed a lot of school because my brother and

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Speaker 1: I were delinquents, And so it's possible that, like I

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Speaker 1: managed to dodge a real sticking Kermit nickname by just

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Speaker 1: not being at school very much. But I don't have

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Speaker 1: a strong recollection that it was a big thing. But

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Speaker 1: there was a moment when somebody called me that. Then

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Speaker 1: maybe some of his friends continue to call me it

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Speaker 1: for a little while. Sure, and now it seems cool,

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Speaker 1: like being associated with Kermit the Frog seems like a

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Speaker 1: cool thing, like a legend. An ally, Yeah, did you

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Speaker 1: say a legend? And an ally? Is that what you

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Speaker 1: said about Kermit the Frog? That's how I perceived him.

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Speaker 1: I guess I don't totally disagree with that sort of take. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know of evidence to the contrary. I wish

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Speaker 1: somebody would nickname me Kermitt. I don't get any nicknames anymore.

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Speaker 1: Are you ever able to get like a different nickname

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Speaker 1: to stick with any sort of like permanence? Because I

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Speaker 1: was not successful, not really later in life, like I

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Speaker 1: like people would call me like Josh Tops, which I

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Speaker 1: always thought was kind of where's that come from? Well,

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Speaker 1: my last name is to Paul's key, so it's like fun,

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Speaker 1: it's fine. I don't think it's it's good. I sometimes

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Speaker 1: refer to myself as the Josh Man, like I started

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Speaker 1: doing as a joke. Like I love even more than

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Speaker 1: hearing what someone's nickname was from someone else. I love

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Speaker 1: hearing what nicknames someone tried to make happen for themselves

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Speaker 1: that was not completely successful. I think that that's a

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Speaker 1: great call. I have a history of doing things like

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Speaker 1: sarcastically that then become like real. Well, like one time

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Speaker 1: I was maybe I've told this story before in this podcast.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember, but there was a period where I

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Speaker 1: was like, I'm going to get into the Big Bang Theory,

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Speaker 1: like I've always thought The Big Bang Theory was a

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Speaker 1: terrible show, and I you know, I hope you know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe you've written some episodes of the

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Speaker 1: Big Bang Theory. I don't know, but no, thank you

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Speaker 1: for assuming I have that much money. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't like to make assumptions about people that I

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Speaker 1: don't like to assume that people haven't worked on the

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Speaker 1: Big Bang Theory, you know, like just as a rule,

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Speaker 1: that's a really sensitive progressive I think, like you have

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge just across the board as the possibility that

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Speaker 1: somebody you're talking to who has worked on the Big

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Speaker 1: Bang Theory in some capacity. Anyhow, as a joke, I

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, telling people I'm going to get

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Speaker 1: into that's gonna be my thing. And then I ended

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Speaker 1: up watching like five or six seasons of The Big

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Speaker 1: Bang Theory just like I'm not sure why, Like either

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Speaker 1: I was bored or I thought like if I knew

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about the show, I could like

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Speaker 1: the joke could continue and sort of expand. Anyhow, the

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Speaker 1: same thing happened with my love for Tom Cruise, which

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Speaker 1: started as a joke but it turned out is actually real.

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Speaker 1: It became real. It's very real. I mean that's like

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Speaker 1: a kind of a liberating thing to be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I can just feel this thing. Sincerely, it's nice I

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Speaker 1: should say I should go on a humble bragg. People

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Speaker 1: don't say humble bragg anymore, but I'm going to use

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Speaker 1: it the term here. I got to meet Tom Cruise

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Speaker 1: and chat with him when we were both on Late

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Speaker 1: Night with Jimmy Fallon when he was doing his later

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Speaker 1: show That's so cool. We actually spent like a pretty

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Speaker 1: good amount of time. He like came into my dressing room.

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Speaker 1: We talked about books. What books. Well, my wife was there.

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Speaker 1: She was reading Game of Thrones. This was when Game

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Speaker 1: of Thrones I think wasn't even on TV yet or

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Speaker 1: was just starting. Oh okay, and he was like, what

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Speaker 1: are you reading? And then we got in Then she

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Speaker 1: was telling about Game of Thrones and he was talking

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Speaker 1: about this series called The Lensman, which is like, was

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Speaker 1: a sci fi series written in the twenties that he

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Speaker 1: was trying trying. I don't even know if m can

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Speaker 1: I say this? Well, Tom didn't put me under NDA. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll be disappeared though, like Shelley, Misscabbage or whatever pretty soon.

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Speaker 1: Um yeah, you will be living beneath the Denver Airport

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Speaker 1: within the way. That's all right. No, he was like,

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Speaker 1: I've been trying to make this series The Lensman with

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Speaker 1: Ron Howard, and I was like, that sounds cool and

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Speaker 1: then I looked it up and it's like this weird

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Speaker 1: space opera from like the twenties. And he was actually

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Speaker 1: extremely cool and I felt like anything that I'd ever

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Speaker 1: heard bad about Tom Cruise was completely erased by spending

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Speaker 1: like ten minutes in his presence. So which is I mean,

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Speaker 1: if nothing else that is star power. Its incredible you

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Speaker 1: forgot about all of my crimes in a moment to

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Speaker 1: talk about a tall personality. Yes, I didn't perceive at

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Speaker 1: all that he was short, not even a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Like it didn't strike me. Now he might have been

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Speaker 1: wearing some liftshues or whatever. I don't know. I didn't

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Speaker 1: check out. It wasn't thinking about it. You're enamored after

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Speaker 1: the fact. I wasn't like, yeah, he was a pretty

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Speaker 1: small guy. I was kind of like he seemed regular

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Speaker 1: heights to me, Like he seemed like a normal height,

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Speaker 1: not like especially small. I think that that does go

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Speaker 1: both ways, where it's like a quality that knows no gender,

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Speaker 1: where you're just like I think some people can just

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Speaker 1: project a different height than they actually are, and you

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Speaker 1: can kind of fucking forget. Like I've dated people who

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Speaker 1: are shorter than me, but it doesn't feel that way right.

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Speaker 1: It feels like they've got a gravitas that puts us

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Speaker 1: on the same height level. Because I'm bringing it down Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're bringing it out right, and then we hit in

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Speaker 1: the middle at like a five nine or so, You're

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Speaker 1: you're like actually turning into an average height person, or

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Speaker 1: maybe even a little bit above average, but not two

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Speaker 1: above average. So that's nice, that's kind of beautiful. We've

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Speaker 1: talked a lot about height for no reason at all

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Speaker 1: except that I what I googled you was the thing

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Speaker 1: that came up my knee and how in my mind

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Speaker 1: the knee position was related to your height, Like maybe

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Speaker 1: you know, you're in a chair that's just really not

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Speaker 1: that big and you've got to kind of get your

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Speaker 1: knee up out of the way. I don't know, this

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Speaker 1: is I didn't go very far with that. I'm on

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Speaker 1: my couch and that's where most things and yeah, I

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Speaker 1: kind of take a ferrel position. I kind of forget

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Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, no, that's interesting. Farrell's an interesting way

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Speaker 1: to describe it. This is I get exactly what you mean.

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Speaker 1: It's like you're ready to pounce on something like a Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I could get very small or very big pretty quick.

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Speaker 1: That's scary. That's like an X Files episode. There's an

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Speaker 1: X Files episode about that, for sure, and it's very upset.

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Speaker 1: It yeah, okay, So Jamie, actually there were some specific

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Speaker 1: things I was going to talk to you about, not

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Speaker 1: just random things, although okay, I'm enjoying the random things

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Speaker 1: and I could we could probably go for a while. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: first off, you're a very talented person with many pursuits.

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Speaker 1: You're doing like a hundred different things. Is that would

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Speaker 1: you say that's true? I definitely like to do a yeah,

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Speaker 1: different different stuff. I get aunty doing the same thing

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Speaker 1: all the time. Do you have one thing that you

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Speaker 1: consider yourself like, obviously you're a comedian, would you consider

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Speaker 1: yourself a comedian? Yeah? I think that that's kind of

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Speaker 1: like the broadest is that the top through line comedian writer,

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Speaker 1: Like okay, writer is in there, right, Yeah, comedian is

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Speaker 1: the top though, because I've noticed that and I kind

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Speaker 1: of am like, well, maybe I'll, you know, get over

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Speaker 1: this over time and it doesn't really matter, but it

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Speaker 1: does matter to me. That is like the thing that

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Speaker 1: I hold closest for whatever is it probably just because

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Speaker 1: I was doing at the longest. If I were to

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Speaker 1: start this and say you're a writer and not mention

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Speaker 1: that you're a comedian, it definitely does bug me. And

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Speaker 1: I like joke about it, but I'm like kind of

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Speaker 1: serious when people are like this podcaster, and I think

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Speaker 1: that that's still kind of like a professional pejorative. It's

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Speaker 1: definitely a pejorative, exactly what I was going to say. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: podcasts are I think they've rightfully gotten a pretty bad

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Speaker 1: name because there's a lot of podcasts and there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of bad ones, right, I think we can all agree.

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Speaker 1: I mean this goes for everything, but I just think

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Speaker 1: that the last decade has been We've just saturated the

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Speaker 1: market with podcasts and it's kind of like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know's I have a feeling that, like ten years from now,

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Speaker 1: that will be kind of different where it's like most

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Speaker 1: new kinds of jobs are pejorative at first, and then

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Speaker 1: after a while it's just a job that didn't exist before.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sure I'll feel different down the line, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: right now, is I think that there's still a kind

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Speaker 1: of a weird, a weird little stigma attached to it

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Speaker 1: that I'm not comfortable with, even though it's like I

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Speaker 1: like doing it. I'm like proud of the stuff that

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Speaker 1: I've done, but yeah, it's just it feels like kind

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Speaker 1: of an achy term still, right, I think it's like

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Speaker 1: you you mentioned it as a job, and I think

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Speaker 1: not to be like inside baseball with podcasting, but because

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Speaker 1: we are doing one right now, which you know, but

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Speaker 1: like there's a lot of bad ones and this is

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Speaker 1: one of them. But as a job, there aren't that

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Speaker 1: many people who are doing it. Like there are people

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Speaker 1: obviously who do it professionally. There are people who make

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Speaker 1: their living by podcasting. But then I think one of

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Speaker 1: the problems is that it's not an art form, that

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Speaker 1: it isn't necessarily a job. There are a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who just do it because, like they got together

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Speaker 1: with their friends. I guess I'm thinking of a type

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Speaker 1: of podcast here that's also I mean, it's like, but

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Speaker 1: you could say the same thing for like music, or

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Speaker 1: like you could say the thing for most art artists.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, you can call yourself a comedian and

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Speaker 1: still be operating at a loss every time you walk

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Speaker 1: out the door. I was doing that for years. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but music is interesting because like you couldn't just get

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Speaker 1: together with your friends and be in a band, Like

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Speaker 1: you'd have to have some level of skill, right, Like

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Speaker 1: you'd have to be sure skill. Yeah, let's say you

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Speaker 1: wanted to have a band with your friends and you're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you play bass, I play guitar. Let's start a band.

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Speaker 1: Let's say you both suck and you go play a

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Speaker 1: show and the music is terrible and everybody hat too.

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Speaker 1: That's not really sustainable. Whereas a podcast, the stakes are

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Speaker 1: in many ways very low, and if you suck at it,

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Speaker 1: or if it's annoying or just a bad one, you

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Speaker 1: could just keep doing them, like no one really the

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Speaker 1: barrier to entry is very low, Like you don't need

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Speaker 1: a book a show. Yeah, you don't need to actually

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Speaker 1: how to know how to play an instrument, which I

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Speaker 1: think is kind of I mean, I think that, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it can go a lot of ways, but I think

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Speaker 1: it's generally a good thing because it's like when I started,

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Speaker 1: like having a podcast, it was I was bad at it,

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Speaker 1: Like I was not good. What was your what was

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Speaker 1: your first podcast? What was the first thing you did?

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Speaker 1: My first podcast? I still do it. It's called the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. It's a feminist movie podcast that's on this

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Speaker 1: very network and I Heart my Heart Radio. I heard

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Speaker 1: podcasts whatever whatever we're calling it right now on that

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Speaker 1: and but yeah, like we started doing it for fun

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Speaker 1: and like we're just figuring it out for two years

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Speaker 1: for fun and often kind of like at a either

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Speaker 1: breaking even or a kind of a slight loss because

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Speaker 1: you're to pay to hosted and all that shit. But

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I was like, I was a lot of

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Speaker 1: our early episodes were like should we even still have

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Speaker 1: these up? Like we suck so bad? Like we're so

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Speaker 1: bad at I like that. I like the being honest

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Speaker 1: with yourself is good. I think there's not enough people

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Speaker 1: who are honest with themselves if they suck. I think

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Speaker 1: that's by the way, I'm not like, I'm not trying

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Speaker 1: to like say there's a problem with the whole podcast

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Speaker 1: illustrating thing. I was just saying that you feel that

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Speaker 1: the term podcaster is a pejorative, and I do think

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Speaker 1: there's something about it I'm trying to understand. I guess,

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Speaker 1: like where does that come from? And there is like

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Speaker 1: this undefinable quality of like it feels almost not like

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Speaker 1: a slur, but there's something about it. When people you

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Speaker 1: hear people say it's like it's not a compliment, it

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Speaker 1: feels like, you know, it is not. It's definitely not

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Speaker 1: a compliment, even when it's intended as a compliment. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel that way. Yeah, And I don't know what

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00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 1: that is, but it's interesting. I don't know. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: guess I haven't really thought about like why it bothers me,

401
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Speaker 1: just that it does. I want to spend like two

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Speaker 1: or three hours on just the term podcaster. So you

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Speaker 1: have the Bechdel Cast, which is am I saying that right?

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Speaker 1: I think I'm saying that right. Yeah. Yeah. Be classic

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Speaker 1: of a man to fuck that up, though, wouldn't it.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, do you have any male guests on that show?

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Speaker 1: Out of curiosity to you? Haven't let men talk on

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Speaker 1: that show? We do you do it? Yeah? Yeah, yeah

409
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Speaker 1: we do. We used to do it more. But but

410
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Speaker 1: what happened? But I think it was Honestly, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I would want to know what my co

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Speaker 1: host thinks as well, but like, there are certain things

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Speaker 1: where it just felt like it became weirdly combative or

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Speaker 1: like oh really not even or maybe combative isn't even

415
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Speaker 1: the word, but just like it felt like we were

416
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Speaker 1: going over the same what to us felt like basic

417
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Speaker 1: concepts again and again and again for the benefit of

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Speaker 1: male guests, and like they were learning, which was great,

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Speaker 1: but it was like, you can't teach you every man

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Speaker 1: individually on a podcast, right, Yeah. It started to see

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Speaker 1: like even when it was like men, we really like

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Speaker 1: people we were friends with, Like it wasn't even a

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Speaker 1: personal thing. It was just like, this is maybe like

424
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 1: a conversation we could have as friends. But it doesn't

425
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 1: feel like we're providing our listeners a lot of value

426
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,719
Speaker 1: by explaining pretty basic feminist concepts every single week. So

427
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 1: then we sort of like we were a little more

428
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 1: selective these days. Okay, but not a blanket solution. I

429
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,440
Speaker 1: hate to do this, actually, but now that you've said it,

430
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: I'm so curious. Can you give me an example of

431
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 1: a situation, a conversation you would be having on that podcast?

432
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 1: Maybe I would end up getting the same treatment. Perhaps

433
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 1: it'll happen right now, Well, it's it's not even a

434
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,240
Speaker 1: value judgment. It's like, what's a topic that men that

435
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: men come up against? And are like, wait, I don't

436
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,119
Speaker 1: understand that there is there anything specific that you can

437
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,479
Speaker 1: think of. Yeah, I think something that we we were

438
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 1: talking about on the show in a recent episode that

439
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, we used to have to

440
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 1: like go over this kind of concept all the time.

441
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: But it was, like, to be fair, not always familiar

442
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 1: to us. It's not like you're not a man and

443
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 1: therefore you know this. But like I think a lot

444
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: of like dead wife stuff and a lot of like fridging,

445
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 1: just like kind of basic concepts like that of like, oh,

446
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,919
Speaker 1: we are killing a woman to advance the male protagonists plot,

447
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 1: and that happens in a lot of classic movies. And

448
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 1: I think that like sometimes we would have male guests

449
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: and this is years ago at this point that like

450
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 1: would get a little defensive about that and they're like,

451
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,959
Speaker 1: but I love this movie, and no, really, you're allowed

452
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: to love this movie. And that's still happening. I feel like,

453
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 1: so we were talking about Heat before you got on,

454
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,120
Speaker 1: and which is a very male never seen you've never

455
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 1: seen heat, Oh my gosh, you are doing this is

456
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: why you think the show so incredible because this happens

457
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 1: to that, like you've never seen Heat, and like, no,

458
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: I've never I personally don't feel like you can understand

459
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: in the male experience if you haven't watched Michael Man's

460
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five film He probably right, you're probably but

461
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 1: wait a second, I'm now I'm very curious, like what's

462
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 1: a movie that you could cite where this happens, where

463
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 1: like a female characters is killed off just to advance

464
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: the plot or sort of, you know at the Sorry,

465
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:17,959
Speaker 1: I know this is where down a rabbit hole here,

466
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 1: but I'm so fascinated by this. It's a lot of them.

467
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: I want to say that. I'm pretty sure is the

468
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: writer Gail Simone that like solidified this as a concept.

469
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 1: It comes from like comic books, and it's like referencing

470
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: this issue of like Green Lantern from the nineties. That's

471
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,360
Speaker 1: like Green Lantern is like sent on his new whatever

472
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: the fuck mission because he comes home it finds that

473
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: his enemy has assaulted, murdered, and stuffed his girlfriend into

474
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: a refrigerator. Oh my god, now the plot can begin.

475
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: So that's why it's called fridging. It's like literally and

476
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: shoving her in a fridge. Wow, I didn't know that

477
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: about the Green Lantern. It's very sad. I hope, I mean,

478
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: hopefully that's send him on an epic quest of revenge

479
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 1: and redemption. I don't know, but best of luck to

480
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,479
Speaker 1: that fake man. Truly trying to think of like a

481
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: really really popular example. I mean, I think in general

482
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 1: it happens a lot in action movies. It happens in

483
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: a lot of Leonardo DiCaprio movies where like his wife

484
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 1: has died under tragic circumstances and that is why yea

485
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: inception shutter island as well, Like, oh yeah, it's a lot.

486
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: I mean there is like the plot of the movie

487
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: would not function unless his wife, which is often like

488
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: the only thing we know about her is like killed

489
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: in a brutal way previous to the movie starting. And like, right,

490
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: it's I think that like a lot of stuff we

491
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: catch shit for is which is annoying to me, is

492
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: like whoa, well, does that make the movie bad? It's

493
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 1: like no, but it doesn't mean that. It's like not

494
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: a thing that happens in movies all the time. Right,

495
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: But that's like that's the thing about critical thinking, is

496
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: um is like you have to can you have to

497
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 1: be able to go like it can still be a

498
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: good movie, but you should know or think about or

499
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: be able to think about this other lay or this

500
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: other level that it operates on. Yeah, frankly, like all

501
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 1: criticism and critical theory and actual critical thinking is okay,

502
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: you know what the story is, but like that's not

503
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: all this thing is and so or you know what

504
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: this painting looks like or how it makes you feel,

505
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: But that doesn't say everything anyhow. I can't understand how

506
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 1: somebody could be like viscerally bent out of shape about

507
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 1: that interpretation of one of their favorite movies. But I

508
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: don't even think it's like bent out of shape. I

509
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: think that sometimes people will hear that as a criticism

510
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 1: and receive it as like, well, then you think this

511
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 1: movie sucks and I'm bad for liking it, which is

512
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: very like not what we're ever saying. And that's a

513
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: bold take on anything like that. You even if you

514
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: did think that, it's hard to imagine being Actually, this

515
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 1: is just me speaking now. I'm not speaking for all men,

516
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: but not all men, as we all are fond of saying, again,

517
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 1: just this man. But I always think it's weird when

518
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: I hear people trying to convince other people of things

519
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: that they liked that they should like as well, like

520
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: that somehow there's an idea that that liking it is

521
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: a thing that you can kind of force someone into,

522
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,479
Speaker 1: that you can like change someone's opinion of a work anyhow.

523
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 1: I don't know it's system okay, but that's not the

524
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: only podcast you do, are you on You're wrong about?

525
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: Which the podcast? I love? You're on it on a

526
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 1: regular basis? Are you on it all? You're not on

527
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 1: it all the time? Are you? No? No? But I've

528
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: a'm touring with them for the Sprain. Yeah. I love

529
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: that podcast because it's the best, and it's one of

530
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 1: those things that's a very modern phenomenon where we are

531
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: constantly now reevaluating and I feel like that was actually

532
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: a very early like entrant in the conversation of going

533
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: you think you know all about this thing that you

534
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: just assume but it's completely wrong. Yeah, right, and you're

535
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: wrong about it's literally it's that a lot of the time. Like, Yeah,

536
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 1: there's a great one. Sorry not to talk about other podcasts,

537
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: but there was a great one about No, I mean

538
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: I love it The Dark Night, which is about the

539
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: basically largely about the Joker in the Dark Night, which

540
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: you know, again talking about guy moves highly you know,

541
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: guy centric film but but good oh and actually a film,

542
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: a film where the female character is killed off spoiler alert,

543
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: I guess sorry, but the romantic partner of the lead

544
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: is killed off ceremoniously. Not on ceremonies. Now that you've seen,

545
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: now that you've seen fridging, you can't done see it yet. Yeah.

546
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 1: This is like when I got into motorcycles. Then I

547
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: started hosting the motorcycles everywhere. I was like, wow, there's

548
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 1: like that everywhere, Like they're behind my car, they're on

549
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: the side, they're parked, like people are pulling up in

550
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: motorcycles to fascinate anything. Um. But yeah, but so you do.

551
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: You're wrong about you had this Lolita podcast, which I've

552
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: listened to a bit of, which is a huge downer.

553
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: I mean in many ways. Not it's not a knock

554
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: on it. It's fascinating, but but no, I love the book,

555
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: but it's on that similar wavelength, which is like again,

556
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: it's almost like in the year wrong about space as

557
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: well as the kind of like interpretation of like male

558
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: art or whatever. But it's like I read the book

559
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: and obviously it was like, whoa, this is a spooks

560
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: crazy and but also really beautiful written. I was like,

561
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: this is like one of the most beautifully written book

562
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: I've ever read. Obviously the subject matter is fucked up. Yeah,

563
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: but weirdly, when I read it and I was much younger,

564
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: and the way it was sort of portraying culture. This

565
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: is what you explore a lot of on the show,

566
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: is like it's sort of like you don't think about

567
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: how I actually fucked up it is. Why did you

568
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: want to do a podcast about that? I mean, you

569
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: sort of explain it, but like, I mean that's a

570
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,719
Speaker 1: lot of effort, Like, yeah, well, was there a tipping

571
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: point where you were like someone needs to talk about this.

572
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: I think a lot of that was honestly timing where

573
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: I made that show completely during lockdown, and so I

574
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: think it was just like I had an unusually large

575
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 1: amount of time and energy to do something, and it

576
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: was something that I'd always wanted to work with because

577
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: it was something that really really affected me as a kid,

578
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: and I think like really affected how I viewed a

579
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: lot of stuff. And then as I got older, I

580
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: got to the point where I had seen an of

581
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: its influence that I'm like, I need to go back

582
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 1: to like what it is, because I don't remember it

583
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: feeling this way. And so when I returned to the book,

584
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: it was where it's like, whether people liked it or not,

585
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: the way that the book is talked about didn't feel

586
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: true to how I remembered it. So I went back

587
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: I read it again and was like, no, I think

588
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: that this is actually a really interesting thing to dig into.

589
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: And I wonder because I believe the author, you know,

590
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: knows exactly what he's doing and is like very anti

591
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 1: the crimes that the book is describing, but it's not

592
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: portrayed that way and it's rarely adapted that way. And

593
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: then by the end of his life he sort of

594
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: was like seemed kind of having to some extent having

595
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: to like capitulate to that in order to make a living, right. Yeah,

596
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: just sort of exploring all those different angles of it

597
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: was interesting to me. And then I had so much

598
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: energy and desire to put all of my energy into

599
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: something and so that was sort of like why it

600
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: kind of worked out the way that it did. And

601
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: so I was like eight slept and breathed it for

602
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: like six months. Yeah, and uh yeah, pretty depressing. It's

603
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: a fascinating podcast, and even your description of the book like,

604
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: here's what the book's about, Like when you think about Lolita,

605
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: weirdly the way culture has portrayed it, I was like, oh, yeah,

606
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: that is exactly what the book is about. And when

607
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: the way you describe it. I was like, holy fuck,

608
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: that sounds so disturbing, and like, yet when you read it, yeah,

609
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: it is disturbing, but it's not disturbing in the way

610
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: you're like, I need to put this down and put

611
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: it away. Like I think at least the experience for

612
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: me was like that, and I think for a lot

613
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: of people, and you're right, like there was an adaptation

614
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: with Jeremy Irons and I feel like in the nineties. Yeah,

615
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: my recollection of that is that it was like kind

616
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: of like this is a sexy movie. Like it was

617
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: like this is hot. Yeah, I mean, and like that's

618
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: how the film I mean, that's how the director kind

619
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: of described it. Like I tracked down because again infinite time,

620
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: Like I tracked down a DVD of it because I

621
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: was like, I want to listen to the commentary and

622
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: maybe he's like playing a game of forty chest that

623
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: I'm not seeing or whatever, but like I went into

624
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: the commentary and like he absolutely is reading it like

625
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: reading an unreliable narrator, as if it's like, well, let's

626
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: adapt this directly, and like it's not consider it's it's

627
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: so weird. It's no, it's it's definitely. And yeah, I mean,

628
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: I was like, it's such an interesting exploration because it

629
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: touched on so much just also so much like cultural

630
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: stuff that again like the undercurrent or these things that

631
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: you're not aware of. And I like the fact that.

632
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: I mean, but I think it's interesting about you in

633
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: your career and what you do is that you are

634
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: very funny. You can be, like you said, you're a

635
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: comedian first, but you want to talk about and and

636
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: be talking to have people talking about and thinking about

637
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: things that that really go like way deeper into the

638
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: surface I think culturally, which is why I find your

639
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: hot dog books so confusing, to be honest with you.

640
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: M So this is my segue. This is probably lead

641
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: it to the hot Dog book. I think it was

642
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: waiting for anyhow. But everybody should listen to this. It's

643
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: called the Lalita podcast. Is that what it's called. No, Yeah,

644
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: I'm shit at naming stuff, so it usually does like

645
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: the thing podcast. No, that's smart, that's good. Then people,

646
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: Then that's the one you know, like you now own

647
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: it now. It was like you started doing that in

648
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: twenty twenty you did it right, that podcast? Yeah, into

649
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, and then I've done a couple of

650
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: others that are kind of like deep, divy kind of things,

651
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: and that's kind of what the hot Dog Book is.

652
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: It's just a book version of it. Kind of when

653
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: you think about some of the projects you're working on,

654
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: they do have a quality of obsessiveness, like where you

655
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: get one thing and you want to like just dissect

656
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: it completely. And yeah, I mean it's like, I mean,

657
00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: I'm medically obsessive, and I I feel like, well, i

658
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: mean it's not one hundred percent hit rate, but I

659
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: feel like I've gotten kind of lucky to find a

660
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: way to like channel that energy in a way that, um,

661
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: it's not harmful to myself for others kind of like truly,

662
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: like it's it makes me sound maybe more dangerous than

663
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: I actually am. But like you know, before I because

664
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: I didn't get diagnosed with anything until I was twenty three,

665
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: and it was really helpful. But then it was like, Okay,

666
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: now I know what the thing is. Like wait, wait,

667
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: what were you diagnosed with? Can I ask? Is that

668
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: too personal? Yeah? No, I was. I was diagnosed with

669
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: OCD oh wow. Oh yeah, I mean I have a

670
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: big time. I'm like not not like you were just

671
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: talking that was that's the real deal. You have OCD

672
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: for real? Yeah, I mean it, and it had escalated

673
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: to a point where it's like really affecting my life,

674
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: and I just didn't know what it was. And it's

675
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: like that thing where once you have a name for something,

676
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: it just becomes infinitely feels like it's you know, you

677
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: can handle it, yeah, because there's a name for it.

678
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: So you're not uniquely fucked up or whatever, right, So

679
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: that's kind of nice. I mean, you're not special anymore.

680
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: But outside of that, it is like kind of amazing

681
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: to be diagnosed with something. When I was a kid,

682
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: I was prescribed RIDDLE and of course, I mean as

683
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: every child was in the late Ada big industry, big

684
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: big industry at that time. But yeah, I was diagnosed

685
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: with like add as a kid or whatever. And then

686
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: not that long ago, actually during the pandemic, I was like, man,

687
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: I'm really like struggling with certain things, Like I feel

688
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: like I never actually got to the bottom of I

689
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: never really like it was like I was a kid,

690
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: I was diagnosed with this thing, and then after that,

691
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: like there was a period where I was like medicated

692
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: and then I wasn't and then I was like, okay,

693
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: I'm fine now, like I'm normal or whatever you know

694
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: that is, and I don't need to address this any longer.

695
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: And I spent like twenty years not addressing it or whatever,

696
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: you know, maybe even longer. And then I got to

697
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: a point and it was like, can I do anything

698
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: like to affect whatever this thing is that feels like

699
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: I don't even know, like is it that? Is it

700
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: something else? And then it went through like a whole

701
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: process of like that, what's happening? Certainly, Okay, I'm sorry.

702
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: I was just plugging my iPad in. Oh really, you're

703
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: on an iPad? Yes, okay, I would never have guessed that.

704
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Wow, Okay, interesting fact you were.

705
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: You were giving me an interest. I was about to

706
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: tell you I was about to bear my soul, and

707
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: then I got distracted. I was plugging in so I

708
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: could continue hearing about it. And then actually, what just happened?

709
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: There was a classic add shit where something very minor

710
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: happened where you like tilted your screen a little bit,

711
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: and I was like, something's happening. I need to stop

712
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: what I'm doing and shift gears to talk about that,

713
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: and here we are talking about your fucking audio interface.

714
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: That's on me. But yeah, it's interesting to get diagnosed

715
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: and have somebody be like, you have a thing, Like

716
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 1: that's not in your head, You're not just annoying like

717
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: I've always felt a lot of my worst behaviors are

718
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: just really fucking annoying. And maybe I'm just in a

719
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: annoying person who like talks too much. I mean that

720
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: can be true also, but it was nice to kind

721
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: of hear somebody go, you know, one, you have a thing.

722
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: It's real, Like they were like, you're off the charts,

723
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: like you're like every all of the tests that we've done,

724
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 1: you're in the highest percentile or whatever of like having

725
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: the thing. And then they're like, here' stuff you can do,

726
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: which is sort of amazing that they even happen. I mean,

727
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: it's like, I feel so lucky that I was able

728
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: to even get that, because it's like a lot of

729
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,479
Speaker 1: people never get that, whether they're like not comfortable getting

730
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: it or don't have access to it or whatever. It

731
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: is like it Yeah, it was totally. It definitely like

732
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: changed my at least mindset because I was in total

733
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: like chaos brain. And also I and this is like

734
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: obviously like not a medical I don't know shit about shit.

735
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 1: But I was originally diagnosed with OCD and bipolar, and

736
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: then when I got a second opinion about a year

737
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: and a half later, because the medicine I was taking

738
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: for bipolar, like it wasn't really making a difference and

739
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 1: it was kind of like not like not helping. And

740
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: when I spoke to another professional about it, like a

741
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: year and a half after that, they're like, oh, yeah,

742
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: there's like very often if you have severe OCD, it

743
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: is mistaken as low grade bipolar because of the kind

744
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: of like intensity of it. So like it just took

745
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: years to like for a while, I thought I was,

746
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: you know, OCD bipolar, and then as time went on,

747
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: it was like, no, I think I just have you know,

748
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: X games OCD and that's you know, like it is manageable,

749
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: and I think it's I don't know. I guess I'm

750
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: curious of like what your experience of this is with

751
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: add because I feel like when I knew that there

752
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: was a problem, it was like, oh, okay, so how

753
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,479
Speaker 1: do we kill the problem kind of and not like

754
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: this is a part of my personality and like I

755
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: either are ways to temper it so that it's not harmful,

756
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: but like you can't just kill a part of you,

757
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: like no, So that's yeah, well that was always when

758
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: I was a kid. I always one of the things

759
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: I felt about, like when I was taking Riddlin was

760
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: I could feel like there was a part of me

761
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: that was being killed, that was being like I didn't know.

762
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: I think, like the drug was so strong. I mean

763
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: only an extreme case. I feel like you should be

764
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 1: giving kids riddle it. And that's just my opinion. I'm

765
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: not a doctor at all, but having been a kid

766
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: on riddling and then like kind of understanding it after

767
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: the fact, I was like, wow, like I was on

768
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: a very powerful drug that did make me feel like absolutely,

769
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: like I was cutting off a certain part of my

770
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: personality or like just reshaping my personality to be this

771
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 1: other thing, which is like obviously still me, but yeah,

772
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: chemically enhanced me or chemically sort of you know, deviated.

773
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: I feel like now the modern interpretation understanding of having

774
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: any kind of neurodivergence as we call it, but which

775
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: is brand new. By the way, people didn't call it

776
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: neurodivergence ten years ago. You didn't hear anybody using that term.

777
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: It is a pretty new thing. I do think there's

778
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: a whole generation of people who are like, oh, yeah,

779
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: like I have issues, I have things with me that

780
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: are not like you, and like I'm it's like that's

781
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: part of who I am, and like sometimes like people

782
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: are actively treating it for all sorts of different reasons.

783
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: I think it's a very modern and recent occurrence that

784
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: you can even feel comfortable talking about it, like even

785
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: this conversation a few I feel like a decade ago.

786
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: And maybe this is the gift that podcasting has given us.

787
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: Perhaps it's given an opportunity for all kinds of people

788
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,240
Speaker 1: to just be like like spin, I'm a fucking weirdo,

789
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: and you know that's fine. And I don't know that

790
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: like being diagnosed with a thing that is like definitely

791
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: like this kind of weird chemical imbalance or behavior has

792
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: changed any of that. I mean, you feel like you're

793
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: not trying to kill the behavior. Is that what you're saying,

794
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: Like that there's a different stance. Yeah, I think that.

795
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: I And again, like I think I totally agree that

796
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: like the way that people have talked about it has

797
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: changed so much because even when I mean, you know

798
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: us like diagnosed with us in twenty sixteen or twenty fifteen,

799
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: and like even then, it was like, oh, so we

800
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 1: we need to like kill this with fire. That's the solution, right, right,

801
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 1: and like I will fundamentally change as a person and

802
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: then things will be great and normal. Oh god, yeah.

803
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: And it's like and it's not even that any professional.

804
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: Like the more I talked to people, the more they're like, yeah, no,

805
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: that's not We're just trying to like make it so

806
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: that you can like function, and and and as time

807
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: went on, it was like you know, with trial and

808
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: error with different medications and different treatments. Because I did

809
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: like exposure therapy for as long as I could afford it,

810
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: and then I stopped, and like, you know, it was

811
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: like all over the place exposure therapy. Oh gosh, I

812
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 1: don't know if I this is a good explanation of it.

813
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: But basically it was like sessions I would do with

814
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: my therapist for yeah, the few months that he was

815
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: giving me an eighty percent discount and then he was

816
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: like no more. But but he was like, yeah, you're

817
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: in the trenches. I'll do this. But it was stuff

818
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: we're like we would take something that would like trigger

819
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: my OCG brain, and we would look at it together

820
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: and it would be sort of this repeated pattern of like, Okay,

821
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: you're looking at this, what is the worst case scenario?

822
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: With this in your head? Instinct doesn't need to be rational?

823
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: What's the worst case scenario? And I would have to

824
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: say it out loud and then he's like, okay, so

825
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,959
Speaker 1: if that is the worst case scenario, would you die?

826
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 1: What would happen? How would you deal with that problem?

827
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: And we would talk through how to deal with the

828
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: worst case scenario in my head, and even so it

829
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 1: was usually solvable, and then we would scale it back

830
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: and back and back and back until we were at

831
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: like a more objective way of viewing the thing, and

832
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: it actually did really help, and it like really helped

833
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: with my I mean not that it's healthy, because I

834
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: would not say it is, but like I think a

835
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: lot of what would sort of put me in a

836
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: horrible place would be like stuff with the internet, and

837
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: it like, well, it's very bad like that. I mean truly,

838
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: Sometimes we would be looking at like a tab and

839
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, right, what is set? Okay, what's on

840
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: the tab? What's on the tab? I have to know

841
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: I'm not telling you what's on that. Can you give

842
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: me a realm of what's on the tab, like the

843
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: kind of thing that might be on the tab. You

844
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: don't have to be specific. It was like Twitter sometimes

845
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: it uh, that's what I was. That's where my head went,

846
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: is like social media okay. So it's like it was

847
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: not like intellectual. I wasn't like I was like beheading

848
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: videos because there's so much horrible shit on the Internet.

849
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: I was like, sure, you know what I mean. My

850
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: head went in like all these different places, but for me,

851
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: the top one. When you said it, I was like, oh,

852
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 1: it's got to be like social media is in that tab.

853
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: Would be like, yeah, oh, it's like you know, a

854
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: tweet from that you that you're like, am I Like

855
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: did I do something wrong? Like that kind of reactive

856
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: And that was the sort of stuff that, especially when

857
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: I started to treatment as something that I got to

858
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: work on for a long time, but like I could

859
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: get in my head so easily on no information. They say, yeah,

860
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: that's terrifying. That's like the Internet is designed to reinforce that,

861
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: and I show it to you more and more, and

862
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 1: so it's like having to ask myself those basic questions

863
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 1: and like even if this is the worst case scenario,

864
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: you'll live, like you'll be all right, and you're it'll

865
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: suck for a little bit. Yeah, No, I know what

866
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Like, I mean, it's it's but it's

867
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: such an acute sensation of you like tweet something and

868
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: then it becomes a thing and then like suddenly there's

869
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: a pile on. I don't know if this is the

870
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: same situation, but like maybe it was less than that,

871
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: but it's kind of like it can feel so high.

872
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: The escalation of it in your mind and in your

873
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: like soul can feel so overwhelmingly. I'm not saying that

874
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: I know the experience that you're talking about, but I

875
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: can kind of understand, like I can kind of understand

876
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: obsessing about that kind of situation because it is, Yeah,

877
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: there's so many unanswered questions on that screen in that

878
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 1: tab that you can't possibly wrap your head around or

879
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: get inside of, and you're sort of like, at this

880
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: remove going, where is this going? How is it going

881
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: to play out? What do these people really think? Like right,

882
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 1: that's terrifying. Honestly, mine were like pretty innocuous like things

883
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 1: where I was not even directly implicated, but I'm like, oh, fuck,

884
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: like you know, okay, interesting. Yeah, I mean it was

885
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 1: like a problem. It's really stressful, and it was like

886
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: stressful to me and annoying to people in my life

887
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: because they're like, what are you talking about? Like you know,

888
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: like really yeah, So I think this is how I

889
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: feel about myself, Like when I'm at my sort of

890
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: most extreme version of my add or whatever, it's like, oh,

891
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: I'm definitely annoying all the people around me, Like I'm

892
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: definitely being really overwhelming. And it's like occasionally that's true,

893
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: but sometimes I feel like when you're in that like space,

894
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: or at least for me, I'm like I'm like, oh,

895
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: I'm being horrible, I'm being annoying, and then they're like

896
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: you haven't said anything in twenty minutes, Like what the

897
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: fuck are you talking about? You're like, oh, this was

898
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: like everything was going on inside my head right But anyway,

899
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: that was like one of the higher that was like

900
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: one of the things that we talked about right away

901
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 1: because it affected my daily life. But there's still I

902
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: mean I think that it's like I guess reorienting my

903
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: brain to be like, Okay, this is something I need

904
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: to learn to live with I'm not going to be

905
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: able to kill it. Yeah, because there are still like

906
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: stuff with OCD that is like a day to day

907
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,959
Speaker 1: thing that you know, I try to have a better

908
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: relationship with. I have to I have to walk a

909
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: certain number of miles every single day or I'll you know, explode.

910
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 1: That's great, Wow, I allowed to keep those ones. Yeah.

911
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: I wish I had a problem that was like you

912
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: have to exercise and move your body. That would be

913
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: like a great like obsession for me to have. Mine's

914
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: like the opposite of that, like I can't well, it

915
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 1: gets kind of like there's no direction in which it

916
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: is like completely applicable because it's like I even that

917
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 1: like with with my last therapist. At first he was like, yeah,

918
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: that sounds good. That's a healthy one, and then like

919
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: I took it too far, and then I I was like, sorry,

920
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: I feel like shit today, and he's like why, I'm like, well,

921
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: the skin's falling off my feet. I'm taking so many steps.

922
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,760
Speaker 1: I was literally gonna say, like your legs are broken.

923
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, maybe you don't keep walking, don't you know,

924
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: Like that's crazy. You just can't apply that level of

925
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,439
Speaker 1: energy to everything, so it's like I've had to learn

926
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: to distribute, right the energy and all that shit indifferent.

927
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: So anyways, work is actually you know not sometimes probably

928
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: I take it too far, but for the most part,

929
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, this is something specific, it is a task,

930
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: and I'm putting this energy here and it's helpful because

931
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: then you don't put it somewhere else. And I and

932
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: I think to bring us back on topic, well, I

933
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: mean whatever, there's no on topic on this podcast, but

934
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: one quick thing I'll say, and then I do want

935
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: to talk about the book because like, you know, like

936
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 1: you've just done it and it's kind of wild, and

937
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: I want to get into a little bit. But I

938
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,959
Speaker 1: was going to say on the exposure therapy thing. What's

939
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: interesting to me and what has been eye opening personally

940
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: is the realms and ranges of treatment that exist now

941
00:45:58,160 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: that I feel like there was like a very one

942
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: size fits all solution when I was younger, and now

943
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, like, if this particular medication or this

944
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: particular sort of strategy, you know, or therapy isn't working,

945
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: there are these other things you can do, and like

946
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: they could actually be better and improve the situation, and

947
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: like it's interesting to have a menu of options now

948
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: instead of um, I don't know whatever. I don't know

949
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: what people were doing before there was you could even

950
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: like talk to a doctor about this stuff. But I

951
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: mean they were going insane, is what was happening. They

952
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 1: were their la but they were just kind of having

953
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: worse lives than they should have, right, right, they were

954
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: all very draper or whatever. I don't know. Yeah, now

955
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: completely on topic. You wrote a book. Yes, it's called

956
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: Raw Dog. Yes, what is the subtitle? Uh, The Secret

957
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: History of hot Dogs? I think, yeah, yeah, Now, I'll

958
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: be honest you, I haven't I'm not finished it yet.

959
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: It's but I I've read a bunch of it. And

960
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: did you mentioned it early on that there's like some

961
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 1: horny parts of the book, which I think is interesting

962
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 1: and I think I guess I was like, oh, that

963
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: makes sense. Like hot dogs are somehow I guess just

964
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: naturally they're very they're extremely phallic. Yeah, and they're like

965
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: you know meat, it's not like just a shape, it's

966
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 1: like made of you know, animal parts. And let's pretend

967
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: someone's listening to this and they have no idea. They

968
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: haven't listened to the rest of this podcast. I don't

969
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 1: know what's happening with them. They just joined us. But

970
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: explain the book to it to a lay person, how

971
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: would you describe this? The book is, I mean, it

972
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: is quite simply about hot dogs. It is. There are

973
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: other books about hot dogs, but I've never found I

974
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: wasn't able to find a book that was about hot

975
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: dogs that also was I guess like funny or or critical.

976
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 1: Those are the two things they've found missing. It was

977
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 1: just like, here's some information about hot dogs that they

978
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 1: were aimed at people who love hot dogs and don't

979
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 1: want to love hot dogs any less than they already

980
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: do because they don't want to be challenged on hot

981
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: dogs in any way. Right. And I feel like my

982
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 1: my my tendency. When I get interested in something, it's

983
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: like I want to know every single thing about it,

984
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: whether it's good or bad, and present it to people

985
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: the best way I can, and then let them decide

986
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: how they feel about it. It's none of my business.

987
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: And there wasn't an equivalent of that for hot dogs.

988
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: You could read about, you know, the horrific things going

989
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 1: on and meat packing factories, or you could read a

990
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: fun guide book about where to eat hot dogs across

991
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 1: the country, and I was like, I think that there

992
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 1: is actually something interesting about trying to present both in

993
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: the same space and hopefully, you know, have it be

994
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: funny and find moments of like levity inside of it.

995
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: And then I'm also talking about like the road trip

996
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: I took to research it right while not trying to

997
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 1: you know, shy away from the stuff that is like

998
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,479
Speaker 1: genuinely scary and fucked up. And then also like there's

999
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: all of these like side quests of stuff that I

1000
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: didn't think was like, oh my god, like this is

1001
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: a huge like microcosm for this big issue, but it's

1002
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: hot dogs. It's I don't know, Yeah, can you describe

1003
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: like a side quest, Like what would be one of

1004
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: the that you consider a side quest in the book?

1005
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 1: One of the side I mean this is like a

1006
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: more of a horny side quest. But like the Wienermobile,

1007
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,760
Speaker 1: Like that's a thing that like, you know, I knew

1008
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 1: of most people know about in the States at least,

1009
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: and but like you talk to people who drive the

1010
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 1: Wienermobile and they're like, oh, yeah, everyone's fucking you know,

1011
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: like or in the in the Wienermobile, there is an

1012
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: extremely high rate of people who drive the Wienermobile who

1013
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: end up getting married. Like it's like, yeah, you mean

1014
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: like people who are drivers and they get into a

1015
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: relationship and then they get married Wienermobile people. When you're

1016
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: driving the Wienermobile, there's still pretty um. They have their

1017
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: reasons for this. I don't know what a way to

1018
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: feel about it, but they're still pretty gender essential over

1019
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 1: at Oscar Meyer. So generally they will have a man

1020
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: and a woman driving the Wienermobile and very often this

1021
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: will result in uh fucking in marriage. And then yeah, well,

1022
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: I mean it makes sense in a way. I mean

1023
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 1: you're driving six months, six months at a time with

1024
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,399
Speaker 1: one person, You're in the Fallus car. I mean it's

1025
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 1: very suggestive, just dick on the mind NonStop. But probably

1026
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: I would imagine that. Or hot dogs, which are you know,

1027
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: I don't know sure. I mean I don't think about

1028
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: sex and hot dogs as a thing, but I'm sure

1029
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: that a lot of people do. Are you a hot

1030
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: dog fan? Do you eat them? Well? I am vegetarian,

1031
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,799
Speaker 1: now that's okay. I was vegetarian and then I went

1032
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,280
Speaker 1: through a thing over during kind of during the pandemic.

1033
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: I was like, fuck this, I'm ski whatever. I'm skin

1034
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: eat everything. I don't care, like I can't do it anymore.

1035
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to just eat whatever. If an animal happens

1036
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 1: by and I'm hungry, it's that's it. Yeah, you're Ferrel. Yeah,

1037
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: exactly Ferrell indeed, and then and then so now I've

1038
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: gone back. I do like hot dogs. They're not something

1039
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: that I eat very often. My daughter loves tofu dogs.

1040
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: There's a company called smart Dogs. They're lightlight. They make

1041
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: us think they're very good. They're good. They're actually I mean.

1042
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: The weird thing about it is if you can if

1043
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: you can model like a little bit of the spicing

1044
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: of a hot dog and the casing a bit. Yeah,

1045
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 1: if you can get those kind of right, like you

1046
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: basically have all the things you need, you know what

1047
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: I mean, because it's such a weird Yeah, I mean

1048
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 1: the hot dog itself is like made up of like

1049
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: what you would know you could describe specifically, like what's

1050
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: in a hot dog. Typically it's like a foot, I

1051
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: mean it really depends, but leftovers basically. Yeah, it's like

1052
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: the stuff they can't use in anything else. They're like,

1053
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: if we grind this up, fine enough. Yeah, it's mostly head. Yes,

1054
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: I don't think about food very much. I was actually

1055
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: just talking about this with my wife. I was saying, like,

1056
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: she'll get obsessed with like this idea, she wants to

1057
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 1: have this thing, like this soup or whatever. I hardly ever,

1058
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: I'll have a sandwich of any type. Basically, I love

1059
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: a sandwich, and as we know, a hot dog is

1060
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: not a sandwich. So oh is that your feeling? No,

1061
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: I don't know. I actually don't have a strong opinion.

1062
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 1: Do you think of hot dogs a sandwich? I just

1063
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: am like, if that's the number one thing on someone's mind,

1064
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: they should buy the book because there's more interesting debates

1065
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: surrounding hot dogs, right right. I don't. I'm not trying to.

1066
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to spark a debate over that. But yeah, so,

1067
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 1: I mean I like hot dogs. Do you still eat them? Now?

1068
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you've done a book, You've like

1069
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: gone across the country. Are you still get hungry for

1070
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: a hot dog? Yes? I do, Um, which kind of

1071
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: surprises me. I didn't think that that would be where

1072
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 1: I would land. Um. I skew more veggie dogs these days,

1073
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:50,359
Speaker 1: just because of learning so much about But I am not,

1074
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: you know, completely vegetarian, I will still eat meat hot

1075
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: dog and you know, live with myself for that. I'm

1076
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 1: interested to talk to people once they read the book

1077
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: about how they how it makes them feel, because I

1078
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: do think it's like I think my first time like

1079
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: bumping up against something like this was like seeing supersize

1080
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 1: me when I was a kid, which I don't remember,

1081
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: you know, how thoughtfully done that actually was. But I

1082
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: do remember being like, oh shit, I shouldn't eat McDonald's.

1083
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: And then I didn't eat McDonald's for a couple of months,

1084
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: and then I went back to eating McDonald's because it

1085
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: was good and it was what my family could afford.

1086
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: And I just like, willfully let that information leave my brain. Yeah,

1087
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,919
Speaker 1: I think that there is a lot of like meat

1088
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: eaters that um that go through go through that, And

1089
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: that's sort of what I found too, is like when

1090
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 1: the road trip ended, I did stop eating hot dogs

1091
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: for a while, but then a little bit and and

1092
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: I have more information than like, you know, I'm in

1093
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: the I'm in the top percentile of people with information

1094
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,720
Speaker 1: about this, and I still went back to eating meat

1095
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: hot dogs. I mean, I don't I don't know, I

1096
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:53,879
Speaker 1: don't know you I mean, you wrote a fucking book

1097
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: about hot dogs, so like if you wrote the book literally, so,

1098
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: I mean you definitely are in in terms of information

1099
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 1: about the thing. You're in a rarefied space. Right, There's

1100
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: like four other hot dog experts in the world who

1101
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: can meet in this guy named Bruce who I would

1102
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 1: really like to meet. I hope you would like Bruce

1103
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: wat let's get him, maybe we can. Maybe he's listening

1104
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,800
Speaker 1: right now. Bruce. What is his last name? Bruce Craig

1105
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: with a kay. Yeah. I found his book about hot

1106
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: dogs that was like kind of the north Star because

1107
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: he had a lot of interesting stuff in there, right,

1108
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: and you want to meet Bruce and compare notes. I

1109
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 1: would love to meet Bruce. I just yeah, I would

1110
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 1: like to know what Bruce thinks of the book if

1111
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:34,919
Speaker 1: he reads it. I would like to chat with him.

1112
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just kind of want to. I

1113
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 1: just would like to, even if it was private, have

1114
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: a hot dog with him. I'd like to sit down

1115
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 1: with Bruce at some point. I mean, I'm I'm hopeful

1116
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 1: we'll see how he feels well. I hope that happens, Okay,

1117
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: I think we Unfortunately, as much as I would like

1118
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 1: to continue talking to you. We have to wrap up

1119
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 1: before we do that. Obviously, you've just done this book

1120
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: about hot dogs, Raw Dog May twenty third. You can

1121
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 1: buy it at whatever ethic book outlet you'd like to

1122
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: purchase it at. I should note my wife is opening

1123
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: a bookstore here in the town that we live in,

1124
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: No Way, and that's called it's called Make Belief Books.

1125
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: You should come and read. You should do a reading

1126
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 1: at the bookstore. Actually just occurred to me, that's amazing.

1127
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: This is if you're ever out in the New York area.

1128
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: We're just outside the setting. I am. Yeah, we're very excited.

1129
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,879
Speaker 1: So cool. Oh, congratulations to her. That's amazing. I literally

1130
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 1: have spent the last several months building shelves for the bookstore.

1131
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: So um, it's very thrilling. Oh wow, I'm so excited.

1132
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: That's great anyhow, But May twenty third, your book is out, Yes,

1133
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: you have a lot going on. What are some other

1134
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: things that people should be looking out for that you're

1135
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: working on or that you're doing right now? Sure. Yeah,

1136
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 1: I've got a new podcast coming out in June that

1137
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:48,320
Speaker 1: hasn't quite been announced yet, but it's about a political

1138
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 1: scandal that happened in Alaska. Are we allowed to talk

1139
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: about that? Is that? Are you under NDA that? I

1140
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 1: can say that, but I can't say much more than

1141
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,720
Speaker 1: that right now. But yeah, it's it's the next um

1142
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:05,720
Speaker 1: reported podcast that I worked on. It's about Alaska. And

1143
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:11,280
Speaker 1: then over this summer I wrote on Star Trek Lower Decks. Oh,

1144
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: on Paramount Plus. That was really fun and um yeah,

1145
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: I think that that comes out in like July and August.

1146
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: So I thought I was worried for a second. You're

1147
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: gonna be like I worked on the Big Bang Theory

1148
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 1: reunion show or something like, Yeah, I really want to

1149
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 1: bring it up, but uh no, I worked on I

1150
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,279
Speaker 1: worked on a Star Trek show, which is wild because

1151
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,240
Speaker 1: I didn't know very much about it. But oh really,

1152
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: you're not You're not a Trekkie. You're not a Star

1153
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: Trek fan. I mean I am now, but prior to

1154
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 1: coming in I had I mean I watched it growing up,

1155
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: but I didn't have my obsessive brain did not latch

1156
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: on to Star Trek facts. But it was fun because

1157
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 1: once it was you know, once it's in front of you,

1158
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: there's it's a crazy universe CD charcutery board. Yeah, so

1159
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 1: much to jump into it's great, that's fantastic. Um, first off,

1160
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 1: you do have to come here and into a book reading.

1161
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 1: You should definitely do that. If you get out to

1162
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: the chasm, you've got to come back because there's so

1163
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: much more that we could talk about and h and

1164
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 1: I just I found this conversation totally fascinating. I have

1165
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: to say, like the conversation about just mental health and

1166
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:12,840
Speaker 1: dealing with it. I mean I've like touched on it

1167
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: a little bit here and there, like I made jokes

1168
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: about having ADD, but I haven't had a lot of

1169
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: like very candid conversations about I don't usually talk about

1170
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: it very much. So like I enjoyed having that back

1171
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: and forth. So this is like super helpful. I mean honestly,

1172
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: I was like, my partner has ADD and sometimes it

1173
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: I feel like like a d D and OCD kind

1174
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: of chaf in a weird way sometimes where you're just oh,

1175
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure, like it's helpful for me to talk to

1176
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 1: other people with ADD because I'm like, yeah, totally like it.

1177
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 1: Just like I don't know, it's interesting, No, it's fascinating. Anyhow, Jamie,

1178
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 1: thank you so much. This was awesome and you got

1179
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: to come back and do it again sometimes I would

1180
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: love that. Thank you for having me well, Jamie is

1181
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 1: the best I have to say. And and what a sprawling,

1182
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: strange conversation in the way. I did not think we

1183
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: were going to be talking about as much as we

1184
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 1: did end up talking about. I feel like I've exposed

1185
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: myself in a way that was, you know, fairly cathartic.

1186
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 1: Getting back to my original comment about my own talent,

1187
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: I may have met my match and Jamie because I

1188
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: feel like it's like I was being interviewed in some

1189
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 1: parts of this in some moments. But it was good.

1190
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: You know, read the book. That's all I can say.

1191
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 1: It's fascinating, well worth your time. Now I have to go.

1192
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: I'm actually starving. We talked about hot dogs so much

1193
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: that I started to think, like I do want to

1194
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: eat one, which is a testament to the power of

1195
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 1: the dog. Anyhow, that is our show for this week.

1196
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week with more what future, And

1197
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: as always, I wish you and your family very, very,

1198
00:58:51,120 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 1: very very best.