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Speaker 1: Every three days in America, a baby is left somewhere.

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Speaker 2: Say that again, Every three days.

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Speaker 1: In America, a baby is being left somewhere.

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Speaker 2: What does left mean?

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Speaker 1: In a dumpster, in a trash can, alongside a highway,

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Speaker 1: in a shoe box, under a bed, that's left that

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Speaker 1: these babies are meant to die. And so knowing that,

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Speaker 1: I started talking to this legislator and saying, we if

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Speaker 1: we could save one of those three.

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Speaker 2: Every three days, every three days this.

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Speaker 1: Country, in the United States of America, a baby is hostile.

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Speaker 2: And we're not talking about left at a police station

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Speaker 2: or a fire state right now or not, We're not

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Speaker 2: talking about that. We're talking about thrown.

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Speaker 1: Away, dumped.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is horrifying. Yeah, welcome to an army of

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Speaker 2: normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal I'm a husband,

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Speaker 2: I'm a father, I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a

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Speaker 2: football coach in Inner City Memphis. Somehow that last part

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Speaker 2: led to an oscar for the film about our team.

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Speaker 2: That movie is called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems

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Speaker 2: are never going to be solved by a bunch of

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Speaker 2: fancy people in nice suits using big words that nobody

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Speaker 2: ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an

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Speaker 2: army of normal folks. That's us, just you and me deciding, Hey,

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Speaker 2: you know what I can help. That's what Monica Kelsey,

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Speaker 2: the voice you just heard, has done. She's fighting to

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Speaker 2: solve the scourge of abandoned babies in America candidly, something

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Speaker 2: that I was shocked happens as much as it does.

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Speaker 2: Her nonprofit Safe Haven Baby Boxes has helped to save

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Speaker 2: hundreds of babies so far. I cannot wait for you

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Speaker 2: to beat Monica. Right after these brief messages from our

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Speaker 2: general sponsors, Monica Kelsey, Welcome to Memphis.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: How'd you get here? You drove, you walked a dog?

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Speaker 2: What were you telling about?

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Speaker 1: Well, I have been walking my dog. Actually she ws

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Speaker 1: out at three am, you know, and five and six.

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Speaker 1: But we travel in a motorhome and my husband and

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Speaker 1: I are those people now, you know, the fifty year

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Speaker 1: olds that have the motor home, the Toby Hind vehicle

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Speaker 1: and the dog. That's us. Yeah, that's us. That's how

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Speaker 1: we got here. So we stayed at the KOA last night.

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Speaker 2: And Woodburn, right, Woodburn, Indiana.

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Speaker 1: That's where we're from. Yeah, that's where my My husband's

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Speaker 1: the mayor of our city of Woodburn. Of Woodburn.

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Speaker 2: Now, every when I think of in Indiana, I think

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Speaker 2: of Indianapolis as the hub. Where's Woodburn from the home?

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Speaker 1: So Fort Wayne? So if you go up to Fort

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Speaker 1: Wayne and then go east, so we're literally on the

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Speaker 1: Ohio line.

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Speaker 2: I got it, Yeah, I got it.

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Speaker 1: Two hours from Indy.

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Speaker 2: Do you ever go to Indy quite a bit? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Saint Elmos.

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Speaker 1: You know what, I think. I've ate there once, so good,

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Speaker 1: it is good. I'm a ruth Chris kind of got

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Speaker 1: kind of girl. You know. It's uh.

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Speaker 2: But who would have ever thought in Indiana, of all places,

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Speaker 2: they would have the best shrimp cocktail in the United States?

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Speaker 2: But they do. It's Saint Elmo's. Alex, you need to

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Speaker 2: call Saint Elmo's. Maybe we can get a second time

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Speaker 2: you talked about them on the podcast. It's because it

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Speaker 2: is fantastic. It's a great state. But the shrimp cocktail

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Speaker 2: Saint Elmos is a must do so in Indiana. I mean,

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Speaker 2: how close is the closest live shrimp to Indianapolis? Got

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Speaker 2: to be a thousand miles away. But it's good, good stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's over They keep them chilled over ice and the

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Speaker 2: cocktail sauce is amazing. It's grace play in the world.

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Speaker 2: So I guess any time we have a guest from Indiana,

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Speaker 2: everybody's going to have to suffer the Saint Elmo's talk. Well,

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Speaker 2: thank you, welcome to Memphis. When did you get in

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Speaker 2: last night?

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Speaker 1: Last night?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Nice little drive on here a half hours, well eight

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Speaker 1: and a half hours by car.

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Speaker 2: You know what's that taking in a moving house.

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Speaker 1: It took us about ten hours.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's too bad. It's not too bad. How can

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Speaker 2: you be a mayor of a city when you're on

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Speaker 2: the road all the time. What's up with your husband?

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Speaker 1: Well, don'ta's call the people in our city because you

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Speaker 1: might raise some flags. But he's actually a part time mayor,

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Speaker 1: so he travels with me. He doesn't travel with me

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Speaker 1: all the time. I actually have an assistant that travels

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Speaker 1: with me the majority of the time. But if I

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Speaker 1: take the motor home out, I ain't taking my assistant.

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Speaker 1: There ain't no flipping way I'm letting her drive that thing.

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Speaker 1: No way at all. And I'm sure she's going to

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Speaker 1: be listening to this when this comes out, So she's

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Speaker 1: gonna be sitting there going yep, that's exactly right. I'm

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Speaker 1: not driving it.

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Speaker 2: I love it. Also with us today is Carrie Buck

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Speaker 2: who's sitting behind you. Hi, Carrie. Carrie is a huge

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Speaker 2: fan of the Army and she's volunteered with Alex to

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Speaker 2: help with stuff recently. And Carrie, it's nice to meet

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Speaker 2: you face to face. You want to say anything about

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Speaker 2: carry over there, Alex.

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Speaker 1: She's booked your guests coming up, which is awesome.

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Speaker 2: She's she's a p A. She's a production assistant. That's

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Speaker 2: what she is, a volunteered Army production assistant.

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Speaker 1: Someone else has to suffer dealing with me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how'd you find us? Carrie? Well, tell me your

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Speaker 2: story real quick. Oh you heard us on micro Carrie

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Speaker 2: is the quinn essential Army member. It's exactly what we're

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Speaker 2: trying to build across the country. It's pretty cool. Yeah, well, Carrie,

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Speaker 2: thank you for joining us. Did you find Monica this?

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Speaker 2: Bernie did? I got it? I'm going to read that,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't know if if all right?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm still curious who Barney is. I'm curious who

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Speaker 1: Barnie is. Everybody's talking about Barnie.

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Speaker 2: You're going to have to find out because because I

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Speaker 2: don't know, but I.

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Speaker 1: Am literally living under a rock I think right now.

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Speaker 2: But here's how we know you, Okay, a listener. Our

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Speaker 2: listeners are called members of the Army of normal folks,

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Speaker 2: as well as our producer and our videographer and everybody else.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, Barney Burns, who you need to find? I

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Speaker 2: do because Barney Burns apparently thinks a lot of you.

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Speaker 2: Barney Burns, so that you know. At the end of

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Speaker 2: every show, we encourage guests to email us. We all

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Speaker 2: leave our personal information personal and we get emails. Alex

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Speaker 2: and I get emails all the time from people suggesting

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Speaker 2: folks like you, and so from Barney Burns. Please consider

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Speaker 2: hosting Monica Kelsey of Woodburn, Indiana on your show. She

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Speaker 2: is the founder of safe Haven Baby Boxes. The boxes

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Speaker 2: are installed in fire stations and hospitals so that women

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Speaker 2: can safely surrender their newborn babies anonymously. Kelthy was abandoned

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Speaker 2: at birth and I enjoy listening to your show. Her

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Speaker 2: story is amazing.

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Speaker 1: I do need to find him, Barney call me, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Barney, I hope you're listening. And at the end of

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Speaker 2: this Monica's personal info will be there, and you need

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Speaker 2: to email her so she can. I guess, thank you. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Well we kind of just blew the story up with

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Speaker 2: Barney's introduction, so let's go back before we get to

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Speaker 2: baby Boxes. He said you were abandoned. I didn't read

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Speaker 2: really that into it, but you were adopted for sure.

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Speaker 2: Why don't you just so we can understand your passion

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Speaker 2: and what safe haven baby Boxes is. I think it's

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Speaker 2: important to know the why, and I think the wise

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Speaker 2: your maine to the story, but it's also so deeply

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Speaker 2: personal for you, it's.

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Speaker 1: Very personal for me, and you know, for people to

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Speaker 1: understand where the passion comes from, they really do need

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Speaker 1: to go back to the beginning. So let's go And

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Speaker 1: so my birth mom was seventeen years old. She was

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Speaker 1: brutally attacked and raped and left along the side of

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Speaker 1: the road. And this was August of nineteen seventy two,

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Speaker 1: when abortion was illegal in our country, even in the

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Speaker 1: cases of rape and incest. And I'm not here to

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Speaker 1: debate abortion with you. I'm just stating it wasn't available

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Speaker 1: back then.

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Speaker 2: That's just a fact that we could do another four part,

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Speaker 2: ten hour series on one sentence, but we're not doing

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Speaker 2: that it's just a fact, it is. It was not there.

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Speaker 2: Not there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so she pressed charges against this man and

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Speaker 1: he was arrested and he was charging And then if

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Speaker 1: that wasn't the worst of it, when she was finally

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Speaker 1: getting life back to normal, she found out she was

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Speaker 1: pregnant and she was hidden for the remainder of the

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Speaker 1: pregnancy and then gave birth in April of nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: three and abandoned her child two hours after that child

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Speaker 1: was born. And that child was me.

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Speaker 2: And in nineteen seventy three, a seventeen year old senior

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Speaker 2: junior in high school. Pregnant was a pria.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it was. It was a problem for everyone. Even

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Speaker 1: the family was looked at differently. And so my birth

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Speaker 1: mom was actually hidden from the outside world. She was

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Speaker 1: taken out of school. And interesting enough, I don't talk

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Speaker 1: about this a whole lot because I don't want people to, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, go after my biological family, you know, because

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Speaker 1: it's out there. You know. I've met my biological mother.

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Speaker 1: I know who she is, and I talk highly of her,

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Speaker 1: and I've put a lot of information.

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Speaker 2: I've got to go after her. She was a victim

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Speaker 2: of a brutal assault.

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Speaker 1: Have you been on the internet and listened and listened

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Speaker 1: to any of the opinions that are out there on

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Speaker 1: the rape and incest exceptions, and you know, the abortion debate.

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Speaker 1: It's just I just don't want that to get to

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Speaker 1: that point. And so but I talk about this part

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Speaker 1: because it's it's important to understand her tragedy and everything

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Speaker 1: that was going on in her life. And so this

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Speaker 1: was August of seventy two. While in October of seventy two,

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Speaker 1: her dad dies of a massive heart attack. And so

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Speaker 1: you have this seventeen year old girl that is just

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Speaker 1: have the worst time of her life, and now her

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Speaker 1: dad dies and she's taken out. She was completely secluded,

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Speaker 1: taken away from everyone, and forced to deal with this

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Speaker 1: by herself. And I don't want women to do that.

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Speaker 1: I don't want women to be alone. I want women

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Speaker 1: to know that I have their back.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: You know, if there's ever a situation where someone needs help,

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Speaker 1: they don't have to do it behind closed doors and anonymously.

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Speaker 1: I get the anonymous you know, putting a baby in

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Speaker 1: a box, but that's not what's beyond the box. That's

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Speaker 1: just the box. What happens beyond the box is the counseling,

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Speaker 1: the medical care, you know, me walking alongside these moms.

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Speaker 2: Now we're way ahead and we're going to get to

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Speaker 2: all that. It's okay, it's great. There's so much depth

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Speaker 2: in all of this. But I can't avoid this question.

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Speaker 2: When I was reading about this, it was kind of

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Speaker 2: bouncing back and forth whether or not I was going

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Speaker 2: to even ask you. But after hearing you say it

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Speaker 2: and look at me when you said it, I have

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Speaker 2: to ask this. Your natural father, he's on one hand,

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Speaker 2: is your father. It's your DNA, which has to spurse

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Speaker 2: some type of connection, although it's also a rapist. How

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Speaker 2: do you deal with that? You know, not deal with it,

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Speaker 2: but how does how do you reconcile that?

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Speaker 1: Well, how I reconciled it was probably not the way

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Speaker 1: to go. You know. I got to meet my biological

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Speaker 1: mother when I was thirty seven years old. I actually

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Speaker 1: found her by accident, and that became the best and

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Speaker 1: the worst day of my life because I had no idea.

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Speaker 1: The only thing that I was told growing up was

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Speaker 1: that my birth parents were young in love and couldn't

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Speaker 1: care for me, so they placed me for adoption.

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Speaker 2: That was the happy story to make you feel that.

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Speaker 1: Is exactly what people did back then to make me

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Speaker 1: feel better and so that I didn't have to go

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Speaker 1: through this traumatic event.

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Speaker 2: Did your adoptive parents know the real story?

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Speaker 1: No, they did not know. They were as shocked as

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Speaker 1: I was. And so knowing that and thinking that these

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Speaker 1: people loved me so much and they just placed me

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Speaker 1: for adoption because they couldn't care for me or they

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Speaker 1: were young. I had this fairy tale family when you know,

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Speaker 1: growing up, thinking I was going to meet these people

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Speaker 1: one day, and I wanted to wrap my arms around them,

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Speaker 1: tell them how much I appreciate them mom and birth dad,

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Speaker 1: you know. And little did I know that wasn't the

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Speaker 1: case at all, you know. And so I got to

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Speaker 1: meet her when I was thirty seven, and I went

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Speaker 1: to a house and this is in my book. I

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Speaker 1: don't talk about it a whole lot because it's it

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Speaker 1: is kind of a It makes my worth go down

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Speaker 1: when I talk about it, and I think that's just

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Speaker 1: society and how children conceived out of rape and incest

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Speaker 1: and abandoned at birth. You know, their worth goes down, and.

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Speaker 2: So self worth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, inside.

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Speaker 2: You had nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 1: No, I didn't, but society doesn't allow that to be,

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Speaker 1: you know. It's it's the way that they make us

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Speaker 1: feel going into a church. Now, I'm a Christian, I

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Speaker 1: don't make any I am first and foremost that, But

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Speaker 1: I'll go into a church and I'll speak and they'll say, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm pro life except in the cases of rape and incest.

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Speaker 1: And it literally just makes me cringe, like because now

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Speaker 1: they're making an exception for my life, that I'm not important,

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Speaker 1: that I'm not worthy of what you got, which was

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Speaker 1: your life, you know. And it's like, hey, and I

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Speaker 1: talk about I go back to, you know, the story

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Speaker 1: of being conceived and rape and my birth mother, you know,

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Speaker 1: not having the option of abortion. I can tell you definitively,

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Speaker 1: if abortion was on the table in nineteen seventy two,

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Speaker 1: you and I would not be talking today. We wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be And I've asked my biological mother that and she

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Speaker 1: said the reason why she didn't have an abortion at

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Speaker 1: a back alley abortion clinic was because she felt that

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Speaker 1: she was doing something wrong. She was breaking the law,

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Speaker 1: and she was doing something wrong back then. But back then,

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Speaker 1: that's that's how you solve this problem. That's what people

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Speaker 1: thought was the problem was to just get rid of it.

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Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our gender sponsors. But first,

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Speaker 2: I hope you'll consider signing up to join the army

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Speaker 2: at normal folks dot us. By signing up, you'll receive

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Speaker 2: a weekly email with short episode summaries in case you

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Speaker 2: happen to miss an episode, or if you prefer reading

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00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:28,720
Speaker 2: about our incredible guests. We'll be right back. Oh man,

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Speaker 2: it's early in this interview.

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Speaker 1: Coffee to be here.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not early in the day, it's early in

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Speaker 2: the interview. And I don't know. I'm just gonna trust

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Speaker 2: that you have lived this long enough to stomach my question.

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Speaker 2: But I myself, and until this very moment, I don't

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Speaker 2: think I even understood what I was saying. But I

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Speaker 2: got to tell you I have two daughters, and I've

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Speaker 2: always said, you know, I really I think all of us,

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Speaker 2: whether you're Christian or Agnostic, or Jewish or Muslim or not,

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Speaker 2: I think, on a very human level, every human being

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Speaker 2: struggles with the question of abortion. The on the one hand,

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Speaker 2: you have what some people would say is a woman's

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Speaker 2: right to choose and a woman's right to do what

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Speaker 2: she wants with her body. Then on the other hand,

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Speaker 2: you have the science that says that other body also

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Speaker 2: has rights that happens to be inside the woman's body.

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Speaker 2: Then you have the then you have the faith issues

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Speaker 2: and all of it. So, like you said, I really

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Speaker 2: don't want to get into a abortion debate, but you

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Speaker 2: just said something that just hammered me when you said it,

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Speaker 2: because I've always said, you know, if one of my

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Speaker 2: daughters was raped, I don't know that I would put

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Speaker 2: them through the trauma of having to have their rapist child.

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Speaker 2: And even though I personally am repulsed frankly by the

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Speaker 2: procedure itself, not people who do it, not the decision,

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Speaker 2: just the procedure itself. I would probably drive my daughter

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Speaker 2: and hold her hand if had to in the case

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Speaker 2: of rape. That's been my mentality. But if that mentality

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Speaker 2: prevailed in my own daughter's life, and my own daughter

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Speaker 2: was your mother, you wouldn't be alive today.

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Speaker 1: You know, And I get it. I do. I get

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Speaker 1: it because when a woman is, even my birth mom,

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Speaker 1: brutally attacked and raped, she has to heal physically, she

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Speaker 1: has to heal emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. There's no changing that.

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Speaker 1: But killing her child is not going to change that.

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Speaker 1: It's not going to make it any better. You've just

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Speaker 1: basically impacted another life and basically made them pay for

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Speaker 1: the crime of their biological father. And so your grandchild

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Speaker 1: would be gone, your grandchild, her child, because I'm my

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Speaker 1: birth mother's child, I'm not his. I am the resistance

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Speaker 1: in the the what's the word I want to say

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Speaker 1: without making it sound.

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Speaker 2: Horrible, it is what it is.

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Speaker 1: It is I'm the reflection of her in her strength.

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Speaker 1: You know, my birth mother she sunk into a depression,

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Speaker 1: she drugs alcohol. I mean when I met her when

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Speaker 1: I was thirty seven, she was she you could tell

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Speaker 1: she had a rough life. Let's just say that she

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Speaker 1: didn't look to be in her fifties. She looked to

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Speaker 1: be in her seventies.

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Speaker 2: Was she on the way or rough life at seventeen?

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Speaker 1: No, No, she came from a good family.

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Speaker 2: So that one event changed the completely deflected trajectory of

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Speaker 2: not only your life but hers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know the day that I called her,

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Speaker 1: And this is the part that is I think the

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Speaker 1: part that I appreciate the most after knowing her story

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Speaker 1: is you know the day that I called her, that

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Speaker 1: I found her. You know, I was like, Hey, do

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Speaker 1: you know what April nineteen, nineteen seventy three. Does that

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Speaker 1: mean anything to you? And the first thing she said

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Speaker 1: was I've been waiting for your call. She had zero

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Speaker 1: more children after me, Well she had. I'm just so

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Speaker 1: people don't think I'm lying. She had a child that

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Speaker 1: died at birth, but she never had any children after

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Speaker 1: me that lived. And for her, I was that light.

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Speaker 1: I was that light in the darkness that every every

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Speaker 1: year on my birthday she baked a cake. And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't because of who my biological father was. It was

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Speaker 1: because she was celebrating my life and my dact she

347
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Speaker 1: knew me. Every year on my birthday she baked a cake.

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Speaker 1: Nobody knew why. She just did this because this was

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Speaker 1: something that made that helped her heal and so oh

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Speaker 1: my god. But but but look at the look at

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Speaker 1: the the the part surrounding it. She couldn't change it.

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Speaker 1: You can't unrape someone. You can't, and you you have

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Speaker 1: to basically make the best out of a bad situation.

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Speaker 1: And there's no good that can come out of that.

355
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Speaker 1: If you kill this child, there's no good but allowing

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Speaker 1: a child to be adopted and then helping your daughter heal.

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Speaker 1: You've now saved her life, and you've also saved the

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Speaker 1: life of a child whose life was hanging in the

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Speaker 1: balance by a criminal, literally a criminal that was defining

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Speaker 1: their life. You know, when you said, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you said did the wording that you spawned of

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Speaker 1: a rapist or I don't know exactly how you said it.

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Speaker 1: That's not me. You know, my name is Monica Kelcey.

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Speaker 1: You know I'm the founder of Safe Have in Baby Boxes.

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Speaker 1: My life has purpose from the day I was born

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Speaker 1: because Christ gave it to me, and now I'm able

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Speaker 1: to live it out. You know, I'm doing what He

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Speaker 1: set out for me back in nineteen seventy three. And

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Speaker 1: if I would be gone, if I was gone, then

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Speaker 1: if I would have been aboarded back in nineteen seventy two,

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Speaker 1: where would these two hundred and some babies be today?

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Speaker 1: Christ is using me in Genesis fifty twenty, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know if we're allowed to talk about Bible here,

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Speaker 1: but I'm going to do it anyway.

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Speaker 2: This is an open force, Okay, So.

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Speaker 1: Genesis fifty twenty, you intended to harm me, but God

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Speaker 1: intended it for good to accomplish what is now being

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Speaker 1: done the saving of many lives. And as much as

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Speaker 1: my worth has lowered, and I've had to pick myself

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Speaker 1: up and show people that my life has value. That

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Speaker 1: it is sad that I have to do that, that

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Speaker 1: I have to say, you know what, my life does

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Speaker 1: have value. I'm out there doing what Christ has teld

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Speaker 1: me to do. I shouldn't have to do that. I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have to justify my life, but I do because

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Speaker 1: I understand. I understand where people are coming from, you know.

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Speaker 1: But we always have to go back to the beginning

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Speaker 1: of She has to heal am emotionally, physically, spiritually, and mentally,

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Speaker 1: whether we kill her child or not. And so let

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Speaker 1: something good come out of something bad. And you know,

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Speaker 1: as a medic, I'm a medican, a firefighter. I think

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Speaker 1: you probably read about that. I spoke with speaking in

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Speaker 1: a church one time and I said, just think about

394
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 1: you being in a car accident. The driver was drunk.

395
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 1: You had no reason to be injured. You know, it

396
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 1: was just a bad situation that happened, not your fault.

397
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Speaker 1: You can't go to the hospital and say, just cut

398
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Speaker 1: my leg off. I know it shattered in fifteen places,

399
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 1: but cut my leg Off. I am not going to

400
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,640
Speaker 1: stay in this prace for nine months. There's no way.

401
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: Just cut it off. You don't have that choice, and

402
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,439
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to justify that. Well, you know the

403
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Speaker 1: abortion debate. But you have to heal, is my point.

404
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 1: You have to heal no matter what the situation is,

405
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Speaker 1: whether you did it to yourself or you didn't do

406
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 1: it to yourself, you have to heal. And once you heal,

407
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Speaker 1: you can find peace. And the decision that you've made.

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Speaker 1: This is deep already.

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Speaker 2: I mean, well, this is our show.

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00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 1: I'm about to talk to was it Bernie Bernie Barnie Bartie?

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking to him?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I thought that, dude. So I still didn't

413
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Speaker 2: get an answer to the earlier question, although there was

414
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Speaker 2: about a thousand deep things in what you've said so far.

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Speaker 2: But if you don't want to talk about it, tell

416
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Speaker 2: me quit asking. Let me tell you give you some perspective.

417
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Speaker 2: My dad left home when I was four, and he

418
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Speaker 2: died about eighteen months ago, and I didn't even know

419
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Speaker 2: until I got a phone call. No relationship there. I

420
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Speaker 2: had four more stepfathers, one of which shot at me

421
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 2: down a hallway one night. So while your story and

422
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 2: my story are completely different. There is a similarity in that,

423
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Speaker 2: and my father was adopted by the way, you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of insecurity about who am I, where do

425
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Speaker 2: I come from, and why you know? So that's why

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Speaker 2: I'm asking this question one more time. How do you

427
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Speaker 2: deal with the fact that your father? Did you meet him?

428
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Speaker 2: Did you want to meet him? Did you know anything

429
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Speaker 2: about him? Did it matter to you? Was it part

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Speaker 2: of the journey of finding out who you were? Yes?

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Speaker 1: But and I guess I kind of did skip over

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Speaker 1: that answer to that question because you know, when I

433
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Speaker 1: met my biological mother, you know, I was sitting on

434
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 1: her couch talking to her.

435
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: And at that when you first met her, you thought

436
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 2: maybe divorced her dad. You still didn't know. You had

437
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 2: to have been hit in the face with that.

438
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: I did not take it well. I was sitting on this.

439
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: Couch, especially since you believed in a fairy tale leading

440
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 2: up to this, So it not only was not knowing,

441
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 2: it was the antithesis of what you thought. Okay, go ahead.

442
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: So I'm sitting on her couch with my husband by

443
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: my side, and we had just drove up to Michigan

444
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: to meet her, and she was sitting on this chair,

445
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: this recliner chair that didn't match the couch. And I

446
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: tell you this because when you deal with situations that

447
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: are traumatic, you remember things that really your.

448
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 2: Senses are really heightened in all ways they are. That

449
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 2: is a physiological response to stress.

450
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I was sitting there and then the question

451
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 1: came up, you know, who's my biological father? I want

452
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: to meet him? You know, I because she still hadn't

453
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: at this point, had not told me anything, you know,

454
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: we were just getting to know each other. And so

455
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: she got up and she went into this back room

456
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: and she grabbed this blue folder that was like, you know,

457
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: when you opened it up, it was like tattered and torn,

458
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: and it wasn't a new folder. You could tell it

459
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 1: was very aged. And so she pulls out this police

460
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,959
Speaker 1: report from nineteen seventy two, and so having this and

461
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: I'm listening to her tell me this story, not registering

462
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: that not only was she telling me her story, she

463
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: was telling me mine, And so I didn't get it.

464
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: I was like just like totally taken back, like thinking,

465
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I'm so sorry for you. I hate

466
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: that this happened to you. Yeah, And so we get

467
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: in the car afterwards, and my husband's sitting there and

468
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: he's just looking at me, and he's like, are you okay?

469
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: And I said, of course, I'm okay. Like you don't

470
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: believe her?

471
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 2: Do you?

472
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: Like I was like I was once. Once it came

473
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: and it hit me, I was like, wait a minute, here,

474
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: this is she's just telling me this elaborate story because

475
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to take responsibility for what happened or whatever.

476
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: And and he's he looks at me and he's like,

477
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: I do believe her? Did you? Was you not listening?

478
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: Like are you okay?

479
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.

480
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: And so for the next six months, I literally sunk

481
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: into a depression. I dyed my hair black, was wearing

482
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: all black and gray clothes. I was pulling away from

483
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: family and friends.

484
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 2: I was trying why I don't understand.

485
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: It goes back to the worth. It goes back to

486
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: me trying to find myself and I can I say.

487
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: Something to you, oh man, And this comes from a

488
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: place inside of me. Okay, I had a worth problem

489
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 2: because after five fathers at eighteen, you know, I had

490
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 2: good grades. I played six sports in high school. I

491
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: was on the chess team. I mean I really worked

492
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: hard to do things the right way, and despite all

493
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 2: I did, no man found me valuable enough to hang

494
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 2: around in my life. And you start looking in the

495
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: mirror and saying, what is it about me that's so

496
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: broken that nobody's willing to stay around and invest in

497
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 2: me long term? What I found out was I was

498
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: all right. Those people around me were very broken, and

499
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: I finally had to reconcile that it's not me, it's them.

500
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: In the same vein, your worth has nothing to do

501
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: with those people. That's not you, that's not you. Didn't

502
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: create that, that's not your problem. That comes from other

503
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 2: broken people, and you can't let their brokenness break you.

504
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: I get that now. I didn't get that done.

505
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: I get where you were. So six months you're in

506
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: a pretty dark place. Your world's been turned upside down

507
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: learning it. I still, despite all of it, wanted to

508
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: know my dad, at least know who he was and

509
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: where he came from. And I'm still wondering that about you.

510
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 1: Well I had, so I had a police report with

511
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: his information on it, and so I went to the extreme.

512
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: And this kind of shows is that is exactly what

513
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: my husband says all the time.

514
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 2: But I.

515
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: Went to the police department. I wanted to pull the

516
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: police reports. I wanted to make sure it was valid.

517
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: I went to the courts, I went to the hospital

518
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: where I was born or where I was taken, and

519
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: everything kept pointing to her story being true. And so

520
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: I thought, well, the one person that I know is

521
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: going to tell me the truth.

522
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: Of course, it's the dude.

523
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: It's the dude. And so I actually have a video

524
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: of this, and I've never released it, and I don't

525
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: know if I ever will, but I have it just

526
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 1: in case. I don't know, maybe a movie comes out

527
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: about me. Maybe I will, I don't know. But we

528
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: drove by his house six times.

529
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 2: So he was out of prison.

530
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, he lives literally like an hour from me.

531
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: He's a teacher at a school.

532
00:28:58,760 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 2: What.

533
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's since retired since then, but yeah, he was

534
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: a teacher at a school. Just can I remember there

535
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: was no registries or anything back in nineteen seventy two,

536
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: So hold it?

537
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: So did you hold it? So you drove by his house,

538
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 2: I guess.

539
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: So I found out where he lived. Okay, you know,

540
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: of course, this searching and stuff, and this was back

541
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eleven. I think twenty ten, and

542
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: we found out where he lived. And I couldn't stop, though,

543
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: so I kept having my husband drive by, and so

544
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: we literally were videotaping the entire time, driving by six times,

545
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: and then finally I'm like, we're going to stop. Let's stop,

546
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: And so we pull into the.

547
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 2: Drive First of all, your husband is the boss for

548
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 2: doing that. What's his name, Joe, Joe? Forget being the mayor.

549
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: That is that man loves you to do that.

550
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: He's pretty awesome.

551
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 2: That's the boss work right there. So anyway, you roll

552
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 2: up in the driveway.

553
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, we pull up in the driveway and there's this

554
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: lady on this ladder that's painting the barn. And so

555
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, this is now or never. I

556
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: got one shot and and so we got out and

557
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: walked up to this lady and I said, you know,

558
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: my name is Monica. And she says, I know who

559
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: you are, and you're not welcome here, and uh, I

560
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: I don't know what all I said at at that

561
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: moment that wasn't probably appropriate to say, but you know,

562
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: she says, you know, he doesn't want to be your father,

563
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: He's never going to be your father, and and I said,

564
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: I don't want him to be my father. I have

565
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: a father that adopted me, that loves me, you know,

566
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: And she called me a bit am. I allowed to

567
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: say that on here. We can bleep it out right.

568
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter even if even if even if Alex

569
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: does bleep it, it's people would know what. I'm fine.

570
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: But she called me names. And finally my husband stepped

571
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: in and goes, you have no idea what you are

572
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: doing right now to this to this woman like you,

573
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: we need to go because she's done nothing to you.

574
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: And this kind of goes back to the you know,

575
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: the it's not my fault kind of thing.

576
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.

577
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: And he wasn't there at this, at this meeting, and

578
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: it's probably a good thing that he wasn't. He was

579
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: at school. I didn't realize where he worked at the time.

580
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: But he then called that night to my home. I

581
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: left to pack it. Yeah, I left to pack it.

582
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: I that's me. I'm going to leave everything. I'm as

583
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: open and as raw and as reel. And so I

584
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: wrote everything down and I left it with her, and

585
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: I figured she would just throw it away. And so

586
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: that night he called and yeah, it was it was

587
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: not good it was not good. So what do you say, Uh, well,

588
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: he wanted a DNA test to start off, because he's like, yeah,

589
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: it's not true. I don't know what she's telling you,

590
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, this was a lie. And then I

591
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: would go back to her and I would say, hey,

592
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: this is what he said, and she says, of course

593
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: this is and then she and it was like it

594
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: was going back and forth, and I was like, I

595
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: was I was done. I was just so done, and

596
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: so I decided I think that's what I needed though,

597
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: to be able to close it was to to learn

598
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: his hate towards me also not just her, and that's

599
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: when I started to pick myself up and go back

600
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: to my faith.

601
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: You use the word reflection. Unfortunately you reflected to him

602
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 2: the worst thing he'd probably ever done in his life,

603
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: and his distaste for you was only manifested by probably

604
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: his own hatred for himself.

605
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

606
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: Okay, why in the world have we gone this deep

607
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 2: into this? Because to understand the amazing work you're doing

608
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 2: now and how hard you've worked to make this thing reality,

609
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 2: I think it's really important that people understand why you're

610
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 2: so passionate about it, and if listening to the last

611
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 2: fifteen to twenty minutes of the story hasn't understood, hasn't

612
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: helped people to understand your depth of passion, then they

613
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: probably don't need to be listening.

614
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: Now, get off the Yeah.

615
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: So thank you for your camp. And it can't be

616
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: easy discussing all of that all the time.

617
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: It's not. It gets it's mentally exhausting some days when

618
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: I have to do it over and over and over,

619
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: and I get that I'm doing Christ's work and that

620
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: I'm I'm here to do it because I need to

621
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: further You know my purpose. You know that He's given me.

622
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: But it is exhausting some days, and it's emotionally exhausting,

623
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: which is just worse than physically being exhausted.

624
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 2: Well, you are this five foot tall ball of string

625
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: one okay, five foot one fall of strength with a

626
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 2: really bright light around you. So however it got to

627
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 2: this point you know good enough? All right? So you're

628
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 2: raised by loving adoptive family. You knew you were adopted.

629
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 2: You had a story that you were told that turned

630
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: out to be the complete backwards opposite of what your

631
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 2: real story was. You found out your story, you found

632
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: a way to live You've learned to be a medic

633
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: and a firefighter, and you had a career, and you

634
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 2: have a cool husband who I wish was here because

635
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 2: I'd like to I five of him. He loves you

636
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: like I love Lisa. It is clear you have children

637
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 2: and you're going on about life. So take me from there.

638
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: So, after I graduated high school, I joined the nineties military,

639
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: and that's a big part of my story.

640
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: I'm sorry I forgot that point, which is also not

641
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 2: at all surprising that story. In the military and so

642
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: fighters fight.

643
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: That's where I got my love for firefighting. And so

644
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: then when I got out, I joined the fire service,

645
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: became firefighter and medic and then, yeah, you're right. I

646
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: was just going through life and then I stumbled upon

647
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: my birth mother at thirty seven, and that kind of

648
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 1: changed the course of my life. And so knowing her story,

649
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: I decided to start talking about it and it actually

650
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: brought me a little bit of peace and share.

651
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: Okay with you talking about it because that's her story

652
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: and her trauma too.

653
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: It is her story completely. It's not my trauma. It's

654
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: not my story, it's hers.

655
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: But it's your story her trauma.

656
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, Yeah, I see where you're coming from and that.

657
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: But the only thing that she told me not to

658
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: do is to ever give her last name. And so

659
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 1: I've never publicly said heard it. Yeah, So I started

660
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: talking about it, and it actually became a little bit

661
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 1: of therapy for me, being out there and talking and

662
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 1: getting people's reaction. And the more I talked, the more

663
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: I appreciated the response that people were getting. And it's

664
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: just like almost like I had this gift of telling

665
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: people not only my story, but reality, you know, reality

666
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: of a child not being here because you decide to

667
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: take you know, the rape and incests.

668
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: Monica, maybe sure that your son encouraged that it was

669
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: a beautiful story of you guys sitting.

670
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 1: Down with the family and yeah, yeah, so well. And

671
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: that was one of the things that I always wanted

672
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: to do, was I always if it was going to

673
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: be me out there speaking, the entire family had to

674
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: do it because we were going to be under scrutiny.

675
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: We were going to there were people that were gonna

676
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 1: hate us that were on the other side of this.

677
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 2: When you say on the other side this, do you

678
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 2: mean on the other side.

679
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: Of the abortion debate?

680
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: Okay?

681
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: Okay? And I knew that people were going to come

682
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: at us and they were going to attack my family.

683
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: Can I ask you something real quick before we go.

684
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: Let's see, here's one of those squirrels I'm gonna chase

685
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: up with.

686
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: Try. I do squirrels all time, so okay, can we

687
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: believe that out I do not do squirrels. Okay, all right,

688
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: So let your husband know. I.

689
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: Do you empathize with the other side of the abortion

690
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: debate that you believe in?

691
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: You mean the people that believe in abortion. Do I

692
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: emphathize with them? I do, because I think they're being

693
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: lied to. I don't think that they're.

694
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 2: Okay, forget it. Let's say they're not being lied to.

695
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 2: They're discerning, very intelligent people.

696
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,720
Speaker 1: There are a lot of intelligent people on that side.

697
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: If somebody is on the other side of your belief

698
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: set on that debate, can you empathize with their position?

699
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: I can understand it. Empathy for them, I don't know.

700
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: I'd have to get back to you on that. I'd

701
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: have to probably dig a little bit deeper because I

702
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: was one of those people. Though that said, I'm pro

703
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: life except in the cases of ravenizence. I sat in

704
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: a church you know years ago.

705
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: That's what I mean. That's excited I was going there.

706
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 2: My question was, before you find out where you were from?

707
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 2: Where were you on that I was there. That's why

708
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 2: I think you should empathize with them, is what I'm

709
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,479
Speaker 2: That's just what's going on in my squirrely head.

710
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: Well, but I don't think they're given the full truth,

711
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: you know, and I don't think they're given reaction to

712
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: this moment.

713
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 2: I don't think I was. I've never met a U.

714
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: It's good to meet you, Bill, good.

715
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 2: To meet you as well, and I'm glad you're here.

716
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: Thank you lead them here too.

717
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 2: And that concludes Part one of my conversation with Monica Kelsey. Guys,

718
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: don't miss part two. It's now available to listen to.

719
00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,720
Speaker 2: We're about to dive deep and to save Haydn Baby boxes. Together, guys,

720
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: we can change this country, but it starts with you.

721
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 2: I'll see in Part two