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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from coast to coast. Am on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. Tell me about the Lost Pillars of Enoch,

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Speaker 1: and first of all, explain who Enoch was before we

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Speaker 1: get into the Lost Pillars. Yes, Enoch, I'm sure everybody's

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Speaker 1: heard the name is one of the original progeny of Seth.

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Speaker 1: Seth is Adam's third son who was born as a

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Speaker 1: new beginning after Cain's slug dable, and he's the great grandfather.

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Speaker 1: Enoch is the great grandfather of Noah, who I'm sure

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Speaker 1: everybody's heard about. And his name means dedicated or possibly initiated,

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Speaker 1: and his name has become associated with primal wisdom, the

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Speaker 1: first knowledge of mankind in the mythology, which we find

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Speaker 1: in the Book of Genesis, but also in another book

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Speaker 1: which was found in many copies among the Dead Sea scrolls,

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Speaker 1: called the Book of Enoch, which is a very apocalyptic

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Speaker 1: book full of mysteries, and Enoch is the superstar of that.

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Speaker 1: And it says in the Bible that very cryptic statement,

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Speaker 1: it said, and he was not before God took him,

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Speaker 1: which has taken to mean that he didn't die in

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Speaker 1: the ordinary sense, but was translated to the heavenly realms,

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Speaker 1: because he walked with God, as the phrase goes, so

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Speaker 1: he's associated with, as it were, the perfect man, somebody

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Speaker 1: who's truly fit for heaven, and thus becomes an intermediary

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Speaker 1: between a higher world and our world. And he has

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Speaker 1: a great deal of fascinating mythology to go with him.

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Speaker 1: Did he possess any magical or mystical powers or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. Enoch's reputation, the Enoch from the Sethian line

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Speaker 1: from Seth is always is pretty well squeaky lean, and

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Speaker 1: the knowledge which is associated with him is primarily what

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Speaker 1: we would call the scientific knowledge astronomical knowledge, but the

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Speaker 1: ways that the universe works is associated with Enoch, that

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Speaker 1: he understands the inner workings of the universe, and which,

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Speaker 1: of course, this kind of knowledge can be dangerous, as

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Speaker 1: it were, in the wrong hands, And you get a

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Speaker 1: hint of that in the story of the Watchers and

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Speaker 1: the Nephilim, which you get a fragment of in the

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Speaker 1: Book of Genesis, where you have apparently angels coming to

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Speaker 1: earth and impregnating human women and teaching mankind the dark

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Speaker 1: arts of the magic, necromancy and sciences that can be perverted.

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Speaker 1: So you have this double idea of knowledge as a

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Speaker 1: good knowledge, which is associated with Enoch, and then there's

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Speaker 1: the perversion of it, which is associated with people who

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Speaker 1: stray from the good path, which Enoch is an exemplar. Now,

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Speaker 1: the enochs pillars. Tell us about these pillars, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll get into the last portion of it. What are

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Speaker 1: the pillars? Yeah, this is a fascinating story. I say

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Speaker 1: it's the first archaeological story. And it's told by the

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Speaker 1: Jewish historian Josephus, who was writing in Rome about forty

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Speaker 1: years just over forty years after the Crucifixion, and he

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Speaker 1: was writing about the antiquity of the Jews, a book

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Speaker 1: that it was aimed at a Roman and Greek speaking audience.

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Speaker 1: And he says in the story, which is mainly taken

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Speaker 1: from the books of Genesis and the historical books of

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Speaker 1: the Jewish scriptures, but he tells a story which you

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Speaker 1: don't find in Genesis, that this line of Seth heard

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Speaker 1: from Adam a prophecy that God intended to destroy the

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Speaker 1: world by either fire or water. And it says that

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Speaker 1: the progeny of Seth put all their knowledge on two pillars,

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Speaker 1: all the knowledge that they wanted to survive as a

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Speaker 1: monument to what they'd achieved if the whole world was destroyed.

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Speaker 1: And one of the pillars was designed to survive fire

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Speaker 1: and the other one was designed to survive water. And

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Speaker 1: of course we know the story of the flood, and

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Speaker 1: we must presume that the flood destroyed the one one

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Speaker 1: of the pillars at least. And Joseva says something very interesting.

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Speaker 1: He says that one of the pillars can still be

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Speaker 1: seen to this day. Now we're talking about eighty AD,

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Speaker 1: in the first century of the Christian era, one could

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Speaker 1: still be seen. And he says it, And that's where

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Speaker 1: that's my first mystery. I investigate what is the pillar?

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Speaker 1: Where was it and why did he think it could

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Speaker 1: still be seen? How tall is it? And what's the

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Speaker 1: significant insignificance of the pillars? Well, you have in this story,

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Speaker 1: this myth of the pillars of the Sethian generation, the

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Speaker 1: idea that there was once a perfect knowledge that predates

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Speaker 1: the flood, and that man has lost contact with sure,

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Speaker 1: So you have it's like there is you like you

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Speaker 1: have BC and AD. You really have preflood, which you

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Speaker 1: call antidiluvian, and the post flood world and the pillars.

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Speaker 1: The image of the pillars is a link between our knowledge,

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Speaker 1: which is fragmentary, and a supposed legendary pure knowledge which

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Speaker 1: was both divine and as we would say, material or scientific.

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Speaker 1: You also make a distinction between religion and gnosticism. There

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Speaker 1: seems to be a big difference with you. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: take the When when I hear the word religion, I

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Speaker 1: tend to think it means really an enclosing or an

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Speaker 1: ordering of doctrines. It can also mean a devoted life,

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Speaker 1: But I associate religion with something that's organized, held from above,

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Speaker 1: where the relationship of the individual to the mystery of

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Speaker 1: God is through a cult. I didn't say o cult

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Speaker 1: cult o cult which is controlled by priests or ministers

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Speaker 1: or somebody. But the relationship with God is involved with

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Speaker 1: a collective body with a set of doctrines which believers

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Speaker 1: are supposed to accept in toto, and there's a conformity

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Speaker 1: of inherited tradition. Whereas when we talk about gnosis, which

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Speaker 1: is just Greek for knowledge or mysticism, the sighting of

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Speaker 1: the relationship with God is entirely within the soul of

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Speaker 1: the individual, and for that reason one may think it

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Speaker 1: has more authenticity and more conviction, and if the individual

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Speaker 1: is seeking God, it's going to be more likely resolved

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Speaker 1: through mystical or gnostic experience, going to church and singing

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Speaker 1: hymns and doing the communal observances. So that's the distinction.

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Speaker 1: And I think you have a period in the first second,

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Speaker 1: third centuries of the Christian Era when there was a

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Speaker 1: kind of letting out of this individualism, if you like,

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Speaker 1: which starts actually quite a few centuries before the Christian Era,

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Speaker 1: but round about the sixth century, where the individual appears

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Speaker 1: in history as a thinking sent in being with his

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Speaker 1: own thoughts, her own thoughts and experiences which and own

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Speaker 1: griefs and so forth. So there's again we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the sighting of the relationship with the divine within the

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Speaker 1: soul of the person, whereas religion has a habit of

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Speaker 1: taking all that over and say yes, yes, yes, of

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Speaker 1: course you have your relationship with God, but you can't

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Speaker 1: have it without us, and you must do this and

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Speaker 1: believe that. And at the end of the first centuries

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Speaker 1: of the Christian era, when the Roman Empire fell, the

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Speaker 1: Catholic Church, the Roman Church took over, you can say

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Speaker 1: the religious role. And when that happened the religion started

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Speaker 1: to control what people could believe about the universe. And

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Speaker 1: this is where the theme of the book starts to

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Speaker 1: come in, is that science was abhorred by church leaders

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Speaker 1: because it'd upset religious conformity. For example, the idea that

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Speaker 1: the Earth might move was something they couldn't accept because

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Speaker 1: they'd made it a religious principle, not a scientific principle,

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Speaker 1: meaning that it could be proved otherwise you cannot prove

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Speaker 1: a religious principle otherwise it cannot be changed. Because the

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Speaker 1: Church claims to hold all truth for all time. And

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Speaker 1: so a scientist became a suspect. And I tell the

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Speaker 1: story of Copernicus and Giordano Bruno and other thinkers of

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Speaker 1: the late Medieval and Renaissance periods, and how they suffered

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Speaker 1: at the hands of what we could call religion. To

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Speaker 1: America is founded on the principle that one group of

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Speaker 1: religious spiritual believers couldn't stand working within a religious context

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Speaker 1: in England and set sail for America to create their own. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they create their own. But of course what happens is

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Speaker 1: so often with these things, is the rebel with his mysticism.

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Speaker 1: Within a couple of generations has simply become the new

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Speaker 1: religion because the followers, as you'll find if you study

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Speaker 1: these things in history, are never up to the insight

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Speaker 1: of the beginner of these movements, and so you end

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Speaker 1: up producing a new basically a new religion with a

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Speaker 1: different kind of structure, but still the structure. And you

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Speaker 1: start to get again persecution of people because they don't

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Speaker 1: fit in. And the Gnostic principle has always been, if

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Speaker 1: I would say, a kind of harbor the people who

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Speaker 1: who are suffering under religious or any kind of ideological

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Speaker 1: oppression of conformity. In that sense, this is why I

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Speaker 1: think the Gnostic tradition, just for society and for human

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Speaker 1: well being, is so terribly important. These pillars, did they

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Speaker 1: have any significance in terms of anything magical or were

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Speaker 1: they just symbols? No, they acquire incredible meaning. And the

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Speaker 1: book really is telling the story of this story that

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Speaker 1: Josephus tells as he drops into the beginning of his antiquities.

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Speaker 1: The Jews in fact gathers masters as it rolls through

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Speaker 1: history and becomes one of the great motive ating forces

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Speaker 1: in human spiritual and material development. It becomes the great

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Speaker 1: myth that we must recover something that's been lost, and

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Speaker 1: in that process the pillars came to also symbolize mystical experience,

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Speaker 1: the truth of ourselves, the mysteries of the soul, the

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Speaker 1: destiny of the spirit, the relationship between man God, the

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Speaker 1: hidden aspects of spiritual relationship with the material natural cosmos.

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Speaker 1: All that so what we can call occult meaning hidden knowledge.

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Speaker 1: They also become part of the pillars story. So it's

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Speaker 1: an The idea is there was once a unified knowledge,

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Speaker 1: a unified experience of man and God, which has been

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Speaker 1: shattered after the flood, and we only get fragments of it.

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Speaker 1: And the pillars then stand as it were, as an

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Speaker 1: image for when the knowledge was not shattered and our

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Speaker 1: consciousness was complete, and it becomes a kind of carry

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Speaker 1: and care. Therefore, the people who are looking for lost knowledge,

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Speaker 1: which all science is doing. I mean today science is

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Speaker 1: a path and I would say it's best lets through

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Speaker 1: a spirit of truth and truth seeking. And if you

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Speaker 1: keep seeking, you find things, and we keep finding more

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Speaker 1: and more. So, as Isaac Newton says in the sixteen

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Speaker 1: hundred late sixteen hundreds, all science is rediscovery, not an

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Speaker 1: original discovery. He strongly believed that everything he was famous

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Speaker 1: for his gravity theory. Optics was all rediscovering what the

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Speaker 1: ancients knew already. He uses those very words, what the

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Speaker 1: ancients knew already, and he felt, while he'd put it

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Speaker 1: in a form for his time, this knowledge already existed

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Speaker 1: about the Sun being the center of the universe, with

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Speaker 1: the Earth moving around it and so forth, and this

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Speaker 1: universal system that he described. He thought he was just

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Speaker 1: a rediscovery of what Enoch can you? So Enoch becomes

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Speaker 1: the symbol of the man who knew and always knows.

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Speaker 1: You bring in Freemasonry in this work, tell me why, Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a fascinating thing. The legend of the Pillars appears

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Speaker 1: within the very earliest known Masonic documents. Yeah, it's there now.

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Speaker 1: The earliest is around about thirteen fifty, that sort of time,

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Speaker 1: between thirteen fifty fourteen fifty, you have a series of

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Speaker 1: documents called the Old Charges, which we're not bibles. We

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Speaker 1: don't know exactly why they were produced. They were probably

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Speaker 1: produced as justifications when Masons were being told they couldn't

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Speaker 1: meet by order of the state, and they had to

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Speaker 1: justify why they existed and what were special about them.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about Stonemasons. The word freemason originally meant a

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Speaker 1: person who works in freestone like sandstone, which is easy

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Speaker 1: to carve, and that's the origin of the word freemason.

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Speaker 1: And in their first in the first documents of these

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Speaker 1: fraternities of Masons, they tell the story that after the flood,

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Speaker 1: Hermes the philosopher, Hermis, the philosopher, discovers a pillar, and

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Speaker 1: he passes the knowledge of that pillar onto Euclid, the geometer,

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Speaker 1: which is the fundamental building principles of geometry earth measurement.

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Speaker 1: And so the Mason is in touch with this pre

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Speaker 1: flood knowledge, and it's a spiritual ideal as well as

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Speaker 1: a practical knowledge. And that is in all the early

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Speaker 1: documents of the Masons, and only starts to disappear rather

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Speaker 1: suspiciously about the time of the founding of the Grand

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Speaker 1: Lodge of England, which is formed in London starting in

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Speaker 1: seventeen sixteen and with meetings at various lodge in London,

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Speaker 1: and which was something of a takeover a much older

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Speaker 1: tradition which I describe in the book. And in the

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Speaker 1: older tradition it appears that the figure of Enoch and

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Speaker 1: these pillars were much more central to Freemasonry than people

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Speaker 1: would say the Yakin and Boaz pillars of the Temple

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Speaker 1: of Jerusalem, which had become the main symbol of freemasonry,

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Speaker 1: which comes from Isaac Newton, because Isaac Newton believes that

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Speaker 1: the Jerusalem Temple was an image of the universe, and

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Speaker 1: so he Newtonian ideas very much informed the Grand Lodge

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Speaker 1: of England, which was a nationally organized freemasonry for Nonmasons.

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Speaker 1: It was not for the builders. It separated itself from

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Speaker 1: the architects and the builders and becomes a kind of

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Speaker 1: ideal society. Is there anything supernatural that has occurred because

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Speaker 1: of all of this, Well, it depends entirely what you

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Speaker 1: mean supernatural. I would say, in my own view, I'd

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Speaker 1: say that SuperNature is simply nature that you don't understand yet.

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Speaker 1: So I'd say people who have a spiritual awareness or

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Speaker 1: a growing consciousness which leads them to new knowledge, a

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Speaker 1: new experience. This is. This is if you like it's supernatural,

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Speaker 1: it might it certainly may feel unusual to the individual.

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Speaker 1: And beyond that, you know, it depends on your belief system.

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Speaker 1: You can either say I have a great idea, or

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Speaker 1: you could say an angel spoke to me, listen to

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Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern,

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Speaker 1: and go to Coast to Coast am dot com for

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Speaker 1: more