1 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You From how Supports 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: and I'm Kristen, and today we're tackling a topic that 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: has been requested by several of our listeners, and that 5 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: is military spouses. We also want to point out that 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: May ninth is Military Spouse Appreciation Day here in the US, 7 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: so a shout out to all of our spouses out there, 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: male and female alike. Yeah, And so, to kick things off, 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: as we often do on the podcast, let's talk about 10 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: who we are referring to when it comes to military spouses. Surprise, surprise, 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: it is largely women. Um. A lot of these statistics 12 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: are coming from the two thousand twelve Demographics Report for 13 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: the Department of Defense, which is some scintillating uh bedside reading. Yeah, 14 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: I must say it. It's a lot. It's a lot 15 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: of a lot of percentages, many percentages, and and women 16 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: make up of military spouses, right, and and military husbands 17 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: don't worry, we will not leave you out. But we 18 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: just wanted to throw out a few of those stats 19 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: to get started. But looking at who's married in the military, 20 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: fifty about fifty six percent of active duty military members 21 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: are married, which is down from six And if you 22 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,199 Speaker 1: look at the gender split, fifty eight percent of active 23 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: duty men and nearly have fort of active duty women 24 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: are married. Now, when you look at inter military marriages, 25 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: six point three of the Department of Defenses active duty 26 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: members are in dual military marriages. Yeah, and female soldiers 27 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: are a lot likelier to marry soldiers compared to male 28 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: soldiers marrying other soldiers. So when it comes to ages, 29 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: not so surprisingly. When you consider how young people are 30 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: generally enlisted into the military, it follows that military spouses, 31 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: typically wives are a bit younger as well. Um, the 32 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 1: largest proportion of them twenty three point five percent are 33 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: between twenty six and thirty years old, and then just 34 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: under that eight percent are twenty five years old and younger. 35 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 1: But you do have military spouses of all ages. It 36 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: just so happens that it's a little more frontloaded. Yeah, exactly. Um, 37 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: And so you know, I mentioned that we had gotten 38 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 1: more than one request to to talk about military spouses, 39 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: mostly wives, and and why is that? And you know, 40 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: we did get letters from a lot of people talking 41 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: about some of the issues they faced as a military spouse, 42 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: but as krist and I were doing reading of our own. 43 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: It is so clear that if you were a military 44 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: spouse you face a lot of challenges. And a bit 45 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: one which has also been in the news a lot 46 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: over the past year or so is employment. Yeah, and 47 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: this is something from my civilian perspective I hadn't thought 48 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: about at all. I assumed that military spouse probably issues 49 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: of deployment, you know, just living within a military structure 50 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: probably pretty hard. And we'll get into those issues. But 51 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: employment is a massive one. At nine in fact of 52 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: military wives in particular are either unemployed or under employed, 53 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: and that was coming from a study out of the 54 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: Military Officers Association of America study that was published in 55 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: March two thousand fourteen, and so that represents more than 56 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: six hundred thousand women. And on top of that, nearly 57 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: five thousand active duty military families are food stamp eligible. Yeah. 58 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: And one thing um that's worth mentioning is that military spouses, 59 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: military wives in particular have to deal a lot of stereotypes. 60 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: And one of those stereotypes is that they are lazy, 61 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: or there's somehow freeloaders, or they don't want to work 62 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: with their opportunists and they just want the benefits that 63 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: come along with having a spouse in the military, when 64 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 1: the reality has a lot more to do with, like 65 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: Kristen said, the fact that when you're part of a 66 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: military family, you're going to move a lot, which presents 67 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: so many problems, including licensing issues. For instance, more than 68 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: half of active duty military spouses work in fields that 69 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: require state licensing or certification, and about licensed military spouses 70 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: have had to renew their license after a cross country move. 71 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: And this whole licensing thing is a big deal because 72 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: it is costly, and it's time consuming and often frustrating. 73 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: Think about if you're a lawyer moving from state to state, 74 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: you've got to take the bar how many times exactly? 75 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: And for that reason, almost six of military wives who 76 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: are surveyed feared that their partners active duty status would 77 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: scare off potential employers who are like, oh, no, you're 78 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: just gonna up and move in six months or less, 79 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: so we don't want to hire you. So there are 80 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: issues of employment gaps, the frequent job changes, and of course, 81 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: you know all of those cross country moves that these 82 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: military wives are having to deal with in their search 83 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: for employment. And on top of that too, there are 84 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: a lot of educational issues that are preceding this. UM. 85 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: There are a lot of them who only have either 86 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: high school diploma g e D or even less right 87 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: and just thirty have at least some college credit uh, 88 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,799 Speaker 1: compared to one person who have a doctoral degree. And 89 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: when you look at the military spouses who are searching 90 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: for work, actively searching for work, UM, these people, when 91 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: they get into jobs, endure frequent employment gaps and earn 92 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: about thirty eight percent less than their civilian counterparts because 93 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 1: they're often not able to take advantage of maybe more stable, 94 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: high paying jobs where you would naturally, over the course 95 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: of a few years, rise up in the ranks, get promoted, 96 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: get raises, all that stuff. If you're moving, you don't 97 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: necessarily have that opportunity. For instance, UM, when I worked 98 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: in Augusta at the newspaper, there's four gordon there, and 99 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: one of the news writers was a military wife, and 100 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: whenever she and her husband would move, she would get 101 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: a job at the local town's newspaper. And so that's great, 102 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: and that's wonderful that she has that training and has 103 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: that ability to get a job at a newspaper. But 104 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: on the other hand, you know, if you're moving frequently, 105 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: you're not going to become the news editor, or you're 106 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: not going to become you know, enter into a higher 107 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: paying position. And on top of that, you know, if 108 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: you're not staying in one place for a certain amount 109 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: of time. Even though tools like social media can certainly 110 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: help bridge this gap these days, but you can't stick 111 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: around to build a professional network. That's another you know, 112 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: making those kinds of face to face contacts with people 113 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: in your field is also important. So that's yet another 114 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 1: challenge that a lot of spouses face. And so the 115 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: Department of Defense offers some very practical advice of hey, 116 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: why don't you consider more portable careers such as news 117 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: writing or marketing, teaching, nursing, you know, the types of 118 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: jobs where no matter where you go, there's a good 119 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: chance that people will need those skills sets. But even 120 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: though that's very practical advice, the Department of Defense hasn't 121 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: done necessarily the best job of going beyond just like, hey, 122 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: well you know, just get out, get out there can 123 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: good luck, right, Yeah, the Department of Defense would tell 124 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: you that their career advancement programs are great and a 125 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: wonderful resource. And I'm sure they are. However, um, more 126 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: than forty of military spouses report that they are either 127 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: dissatisfied or very dissatisfied with these d O D sponsored 128 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: employee assistance programs, while only twelve percent said the program's 129 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: actually helped them find a job. And like one of 130 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: the one of the articles we read, I think it 131 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: was from ABC News was talking to a military wife 132 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: who was an engineer, So you would think, like, oh, man, engineer, 133 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: you can get a great job. Well, you know, if 134 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: you moved to a small town. Not necessarily, And we 135 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: should mention though that as of when we're recording this podcast. Uh, 136 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: the White House just announced that First Lady Michelle Obama 137 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: and her initiative that she's been leading called Joining Forces, 138 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: is launching a new website to help specifically veterans and 139 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: military spouses with finding jobs setting up resumes. It sounds 140 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: sort of like almost like a monster dot com for 141 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: military folks. So here's hoping that that can be helpful. 142 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: So hopefully that will perhaps improve these numbers somewhat. Yeah. Well, Um, 143 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: a study in human performance back into thousand seven looked 144 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: at some of the factors that tie into what they 145 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: call job search self efficacy, basically your ability to go 146 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: out and get yourself a job. And they found that, 147 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: you know, there's some things that are positively related to 148 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: to your your success rate, and that's things like current 149 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 1: employment status, education level, financial resources, the kind of stuff 150 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: that you would typically think of what's negatively related to 151 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: military spouses being able to find work um and I 152 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: feel like this is true for a lot of families, 153 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: not just military families, but it's that whole family responsibility variable, 154 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: for example, the number of children you have, the financial 155 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: resources at your disposal. The big one is childcare conflict. 156 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: You know, can I work but also find someone to 157 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: take care of my kids? But if we move out 158 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: of the employment sphere and into more of the home front, 159 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: one of the one of the issues that comes up 160 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 1: for military spouses is the issue of infidelity, especially when 161 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: we're dealing with someone who has an active duty spouse 162 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: who might be deployed for twelve months at a time. 163 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: What happens when you are living separately like that. I 164 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: mean when when the General Patreus sex scandal slash affair 165 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: splashed across all of the headlines, you know that it's 166 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: sort of the the it's sort of embodied this stereotype 167 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 1: of the infidelity happening within military couples. Yeah, it really 168 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: is a huge stereotype. And um, military spouse Alison buck 169 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: Holtz talked to uh, some fellow military spouses for Slate 170 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: back in November, and this is right after the whole 171 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: Petraeus affair hit the fan. Uh. Everybody was talking about, 172 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: you know, loyalty both to your country and your military 173 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: as well as to your spouse. Um. And anyway, Buckles 174 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: was saying that most military spouses I've heard from say 175 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: plainly marriage is hard, regardless of the circumstances, but that 176 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: the military environment seems to exacerbate the normal tensions that 177 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: couples face, you know, whether that's money, whether that's children, 178 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: or whether that's as she says, extracurricular sexual activities. Yeah, 179 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: and she was talking to about how a lot of 180 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: the military spouses were reticent to talk specifically about that affair, 181 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: not so much out of loyalty to the military, but 182 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: loyalty specifically to petray Us his wife, because once you 183 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: get into you know, if you're living on a base 184 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:41,079 Speaker 1: and you know you're these women are your primary social outlet, 185 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: and you do form the the spouses seem to form 186 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: loyalty is just among themselves, like within their civilian ranks. 187 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: I thought that was kind of interesting to see. Um. 188 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: But on on a related note, former military spouse Kate Sukal, 189 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: who wrote a book Dirty Minds, How Our Brains Influenced love, 190 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: sex and Relationships, talked about this concept called home team 191 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: versus away team, which she encountered while she was living 192 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: on a base in Germany. So it's basically like, Okay, 193 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: while your husband's living at home, then that's the home team. 194 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: And then when he when he goes away, then he 195 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: goes to his other secret family. Yeah, basically like he 196 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: might have. It could be just women that he has 197 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: sex with or whatever, but it could also be that 198 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: he has an entire yeah, like family overseas somewhere. But 199 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: one thing that wasn't brought up in any of these 200 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: articles I will say is there's no comparison of in 201 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: like rates of infidelity among military couples versus rates of 202 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: infidelity among couples wherein there's a lot of business travel, 203 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Or musician who's touring a 204 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 1: lot or whatever. It might be couples who are separated 205 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, I'm sure the big influencing factor here 206 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: is not the military, but of a travel whatever that 207 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: travel is, whether it is a long business trip or 208 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: whether it is a deployment, right or I mean, like 209 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: if you are deployed and you're in the military, and 210 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure it could be easy in a way to 211 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: start a relationship with someone who was also in the military, 212 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: who you know, might might be experiencing the same kind 213 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: of stress, possibly being shot at, possibly you know, knowing 214 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: secrets that you wouldn't be able to go home and 215 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 1: share with your spouse, right Well, Suchal says that it's 216 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: that whole culture of secrecy that makes it easier for 217 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: people to keep their friends infidelity a secret. So you know, 218 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: if you're buddy knows that you're cheating on your wife 219 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: or whatever, um, you know, he's going to protect that knowledge. 220 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: Well and on. I don't want to stay on a 221 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: similar note because it's definitely not uh, it's definitely more 222 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: serious than just basic infidelity. But one thing I was 223 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: curious about when when reading about military spouses was how 224 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: all of these conversations that have been going on about 225 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: the issue of sexual assault within the military, how that 226 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: relates to the issues that military spouses are facing. Because 227 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: the military spouses are hearing I'm sure about these issues 228 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: of sexual assault within the military, then it has the 229 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: ven diagram at some point has to overlap. Well. Coming 230 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: from the Department of Defense itself, Um, they do say 231 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: that they want to expand legal assistance for military spouses 232 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: and adult military dependence to be able to file confidential 233 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: reports and receive the services of a victim advocate and 234 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: a sexual assault response coordinator if and when abuse happens 235 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: in the home. Yeah, and just to clarify, when I 236 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: said those VENN diagrams overlap, I meant more in terms 237 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: of conversation conversations about the issue of sexual assault and 238 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: what to do about that happening among military spouses. I 239 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: was not going to imply that eventually military spouses will 240 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: abuse in one way or another their civilian spouses. But 241 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: in instances when that does happen, as in the case 242 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: of a woman named Bobby Hearn who is now divorced 243 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: from a marine, when those instances do happen, the military 244 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: also has been slow to respond, if at all, when 245 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: military wives have you know, reported issues of spousal abuse 246 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: or even spousal rape. Yeah, because there's that it's kind 247 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: of you know, closing closing ranks. It's it's kind of 248 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: that that desire to protect protect our own, you know. 249 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: There there's there's kind of anecdotally there's attitudes of like, 250 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: you know, maybe you should just do what's best for 251 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: your military husband, um and not report this. And so 252 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: there is a huge push to be able to protect 253 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: the civilian spouses of military members. Yeah, and it's not 254 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: only this issue of not reporting cases of sexual assault 255 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: or abuse, but if in one that does happen, similar 256 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: to sexual assault cases that happen within military ranks just 257 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: being shut down, just not being investigated. And you know, 258 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: they're all these initiatives now largely being led by a 259 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: Senator Kirsten gilla Brand and Barbara Boxer to try to 260 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: reform this and actually get have some kind of advocacy 261 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: for sexual assault victims that aren't people within their ranks. UM. 262 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: So they're trying to extend that to to civilian spouses. 263 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: And I mentioned Bobby Harran because she's sort of becoming 264 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: like a public face in a way of the civilian 265 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: side of the sexual assault issue within the military, because 266 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: you know, if it's happening. You know, it's not just 267 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: issues that are happening with em barracks, but also perhaps 268 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: within you know, people's homes on the base. And because 269 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: she's working with Gilla Brand to right, right, she's working 270 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: with Jilla Brand and Barbara Boxer. And she had been 271 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: repeatedly abused, allegedly and raped by her now ex husband, 272 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: and the Army did nothing, or i should say the 273 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: Marines because he was a marine. It did really nothing 274 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: to pursue the case or to separate the husband from 275 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 1: heron And it wasn't until the senators got involved that 276 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Oh, now the Marines are starting 277 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: to pay attention, right, And it's because of things like 278 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: this um that there was an article over on spouse 279 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: buzz dot com talking about how military families do need 280 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: to work together to support service members and the military, 281 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: but they write, we also need to give military initiatives 282 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: a chance to evolve and adapt and to speak up 283 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: when we see something awry. We need to encourage our 284 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: spouses to do the same too, regardless of the perceived consequences. 285 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit more than about the 286 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: psychological effects of living in these environments, because as you 287 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: can imagine, living ah a military life or living a 288 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: life with a military spouse is a bit different than 289 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 1: just a run of the mill civilian life. And we'll 290 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: get into those issues when we come right back from 291 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: a quick break and meal back to the show. So 292 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: Kristen was just introducing the issue of the psychological and 293 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: mental health effects that military spouses encounter. And one study 294 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 1: looking at this area was back from two thousand six 295 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: in the journal Armed Forces and Society UM looking at 296 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: four military lifestyle demands which were risk of service member 297 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: injury or death, frequent relocations, periodic separations, and foreign residents, 298 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: and the relationships of those for lifestyle demands to the 299 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: four factors of psychological well being, physical well being, satisfaction 300 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: with the army, and marital satisfaction. They found that the 301 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: impact of separations, for instance, was negatively related to all 302 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: four satisfaction areas. So it's that separation that really has 303 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 1: a negative mental and emotional impact on military spouses, but 304 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: the impact of moving was negatively related to satisfaction with 305 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: the army, and fear for soldier safety was negatively related 306 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: to physical well being. And closing out those four military 307 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: lifestyle demands foreign residents was negatively related to physical and 308 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: psychological well being. So these are things that military spouses, 309 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: their service member spouses, and also their primary care physicians 310 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 1: need to keep in mind during these tumultuous times of 311 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: moving and stuff. Yeah, and one study finding that really 312 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: surprised me came out of the journal Military Medicine UM 313 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: in two thousand eight, and it found that military spouses 314 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: present with mental health concerns in including suicide, at the 315 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: same rate as service members. And the stigma that we 316 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: often hear about around mental health within the military, reluctance 317 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: to um come forward if you are dealing with issues 318 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: of anxiety depression PTSD. That stigma also extends, according to 319 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: the American Psychiatric Association, to military spouses as well, with 320 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: sixty six reporting that they fear seeking assistance would harm 321 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 1: the military career of their spouse. They think that if 322 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: they come forward and say I am horribly depressed, this 323 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: is terrible military life is killing me from the inside out, 324 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: that it will then, you know, somehow have a harmful 325 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: effect on what their spous their spouses rank. Yeah, that 326 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: surprised me too. So you're not only dealing with the 327 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: isolation of you know, your spouse being overseas maybe, or 328 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: or being away, but you're also dealing with that isolation 329 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: of feeling like you can't reach out UM and Similarly, 330 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: the New England Journal of Medicine and found that a 331 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: lot of military spouses suffer what they call secondary traumatic 332 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 1: stress UM. Basically that when they analyze the records of 333 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: about two hundred and fifty thousand spouses of US active 334 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: duty soldiers from two thousand three to two thousand six, 335 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: they found that multiple or prolonged deployments of service members 336 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: led to a greater risk of depressive anxiety, sleep and 337 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: acute stress reaction and adjustment disorders among those service members spouses. 338 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: And while spouses of service members who were deployed for 339 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: up to eleven months presented more frequently at military health 340 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: clinics UM and received mental health diagnoses at a higher 341 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: rate than spouses of military service members who were not deployed, 342 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: it's the spouses of service members who were deployed for 343 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: twelve months or longer who received the most mental health diagnoses, 344 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: which were at a rate of twenty higher than those 345 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: without a deployed spouse. See it's interesting to see the 346 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: results of these studies that are conducted in depend didn't 347 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: from the military because there's this massive Department of Defense report, 348 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: the one that we sided the fantastic bedside reading that 349 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: we sided at the top of the podcast. When you 350 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: look into what the d o D reports, it was 351 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: actually the exact opposite in terms of deployment. They reported 352 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: that the longer the deployment was correlated with the higher 353 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: predictability of the military couple staying together, which I thought 354 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: would have been the exact opposite. But they also sort 355 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: of under reported unemployment among military spouses. It seems like 356 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: all of the most negative aspects or underplay a little bit. 357 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: It would well that. I mean that ties into things 358 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: that we've talked about on the podcast before as far 359 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: as like how accurate is self reporting and how accurate 360 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: is self reporting when the person you're self reporting too 361 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: is your employer, right yeah, or your spouses employer right um. 362 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: But just to give a little context to deployment, to 363 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 1: to find out how many people are affected by this 364 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: of military spouses are separated from soldiers for twelve months 365 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: or longer, largely due to deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, 366 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: and even when the soldier might come home and you expect, Oh, 367 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: then that's great, right, everything's totally fine. Actually, that readjustment 368 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: period of being home can be even more challenging than 369 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: the time of part because, as you can imagine, hopping 370 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: right back from a war zone back home is not 371 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: so smooth, as we have seen from the escalating rates 372 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 1: of suicidality alcohol abuse PTSD among soldiers returning back to 373 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 1: the home front. In terms of kids, the Department of 374 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: Defense reports that most of them cope fine, which again 375 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: grain of salt a little bit, because this is coming 376 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: from the Department of Defense. I can't imagine the US 377 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: military be like, the kids are suffering, what are we 378 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: gonna do, Let's bring everyone home. Oh wait, no, we 379 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: can't do that. But they did acknowledge that among the 380 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: oldest kids, apparently a tenth to a five reported serious 381 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: coping problems that you see with you know, behavioral issues, 382 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: problems with grades in school, etcetera. Yeah, well, I mean 383 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: that's a lot of emotional turmoil. Oh absolutely, I mean 384 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: I remember when my oldest brother was deployed to Iraq 385 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: the first time around for yie old Persian Gulf War 386 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: way back when, and even though the casualties for and 387 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: a length of that war were it was very small, 388 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: but still just like the stress level in our household 389 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: was massive, where my mother was always on edge. Absolutely well, 390 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: military husbands, we have not forgotten about you, although according 391 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: to Career Builder, you're feeling pretty invisible at the moment. 392 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: An article back in talked to male military spouses UM 393 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: who basically were saying that they feel really alienated basically 394 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: from the female dominated spouses club sometimes just called wives clubs, 395 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: and they struggle to find a community that knows what 396 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: they're going through. UM. A lot of guys said, you know, 397 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: I was handed a spouse manual that was pink, or 398 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: all the articles out there are telling women what kind 399 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: of high heels to wear for a homecoming celebration. That 400 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: doesn't really help me. Um. There's also the issue of 401 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: that whole gender role reversal, that it's it's the warrior 402 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: wife going off shooting the big guns and the husbands 403 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 1: staying at home changing the diapers, and the idea that 404 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: that stay at home dad nows is so hard to 405 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: adjust to, and perhaps because of those complications of the 406 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: gender identity of maybe feeling even more isolated as sometimes 407 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: lone male military spouse. The rates of divorce for uh, 408 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 1: female soldiers married to civilian male civilians is much higher 409 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: than when you flip it for the more traditional uh 410 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 1: you know, male military male soldier married to civilian wife. 411 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: In fact, the divorce rate from female military personnel is 412 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: more than twice as high um. And they think that 413 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: it might be because of the gender issues, but also 414 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: because women are likelier to marry someone else in the military, 415 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: and when it comes to civilian husbands, they're also less 416 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: likely to be employed than military wives, So that probably 417 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: only compounds all of those stressors that we've been talking 418 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: about even more so. Yeah, as Scott Stanley put it, 419 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: he's a military family expert and a professor at the 420 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: University of Denver. Um, people don't even know or understand 421 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,239 Speaker 1: the male role when it's the wife who's deployed. And 422 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: he said that a lot of these men are sort 423 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: of swimming in a whole new part of the pool 424 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: without really knowing exactly where to go or what to do, 425 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: or what sort of support to seek. Because I mean, 426 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 1: if you just google military wives, there are a ton 427 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: of websites there's military spouse, There's like all this stuff 428 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: out there for wives to help you not spend too 429 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: much money at the commissary, to help you connect with 430 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: other military wives. But there's really not a whole lot 431 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: of stuff out there for dudes. Yeah, I mean, there's 432 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: even one military husband, in fact, I don't have his 433 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: name in front of me recently started a website called 434 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: Macho Spouse specifically to help out other military husbands in 435 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: his shoes because he was like, I don't you know 436 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: all this pink stuff and and ladies parties, I don't 437 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: know what to do and and even too. I mean, 438 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: these are similar issues that come up in conversations with 439 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: stay at home dads, where if you are taking care 440 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: of the kids and you want to play date, it's 441 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: not always so easy to reach out to military wives 442 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: because then, um, you know, it might send the wrong 443 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,239 Speaker 1: message or something. So yeah, so there, I think there 444 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: are more re sources now. It's sort of catching up 445 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: to the rising role of women in the military. But 446 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 1: speaking of resources catching up to different types of military families, 447 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: one thing we also wanted to look into was how 448 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell not so long 449 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: ago and the more recent repeal of the Defensive Marriage 450 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: Act has impacted LGBT couples in the military, whether or 451 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: not gay and lesbian military spouses are receiving all the 452 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: same kinds of benefits as their straight civilian counterparts. Yes. 453 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: Steven Peters, who's the president of the American Military Partner Association, 454 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: wade about this for Huffington's post, and he talks about 455 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: how you know, it's it's great that Don't Ask, Don't 456 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: Tell was repealed, but was questioning whether, like Kristen said, 457 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: are are the benefits actually catching up to the legislation 458 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: um because those gay military families aren't always given the 459 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: same support and benefits that their straight counterparts are getting. 460 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: But it's worth pointing out that Peters was writing before 461 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: the Defensive Marriage Act was repealed. Yeah, with the repeal 462 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: of DOMA, that eliminated the federal distinction between head reseexual 463 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: couples and same sex couples. And so now the official 464 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: line in the US military is that no matter what 465 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: your coupling looks like, married couples in the military will 466 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: all receive the same access to the subsidized housing child 467 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: care tri care, which is the military's healthcare. And before this, 468 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: I mean, this is a giant boon to LGBT families 469 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: in the military, because before this you weren't guaranteed if 470 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: you were a military spouse that you would be able 471 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: to live on base with your spouse. You would not 472 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: receive try care, you would not receive help with childcare, 473 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,719 Speaker 1: and all of these, you know, very important benefits that 474 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: military families receive and should receive for you know, the 475 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: service that they're offering UM and so DOMA has been 476 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: huge to kind of circle, like I guess, sort of 477 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: closed the gap with don't ask, don't tell, actually enacted, 478 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: you know, and give them the benefits they were missing 479 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: out on. Although there have been issues, particularly within the 480 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: National Guard. This was reported on recently in The New 481 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: York Times about how on a state by state basis, 482 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: particularly ones where gay marriage is not legal, there have 483 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: been issues within the National Guard of issuing ID cards 484 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: to gay military spouses. Right this was an article in 485 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: The New York Times that pointed out that nine states Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma, 486 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: South Carolina, Texas, and West Virginia said that the issuing 487 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: of I D cards violated their state constitutions and would 488 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: not provide had them at National Guard facilities which fall 489 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,479 Speaker 1: under state control. Oh. But in addition to these kinds 490 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: of efforts to sort of rectify the situations for l 491 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: GPT military families that have only until recently been you know, 492 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: receiving unequal benefits, if any benefits at all. Um, there 493 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: are several efforts to support military families, particularly in a 494 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: time where the military has endured a lot of budget 495 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: cuts which has trickled down to military families. Mean, we 496 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that five thousand active duty families are food 497 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: stamp eligible. Um. And if you are in a military family, 498 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: even though you might receive a lot of government benefits, 499 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: that does not mean that you probably aren't living on 500 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: a pretty tight budget. Right. And at the top of 501 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: the podcast, Kristen mentioned Joining Forces, which is that national 502 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: initiative lad by the First Lady and Jill Biden Uh 503 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: to engage society basically to help our service members and 504 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: their families get a leg up, basically give them the 505 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: opportunities and the support that they have earned. So they 506 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: have initiatives that involve education, employment, and wellness. Their goals 507 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: involve bringing attention to the unique needs of America's military families, 508 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,239 Speaker 1: but also as they say, UH, to inspire, educate, and 509 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: spark action from all sectors of society to ensure that 510 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: veterans and military families have the opportunities, resources and support 511 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: that they have earned. I mean, and that sounds fantastic 512 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: for sure, and for I mean, for commissioned officers in 513 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: the military, the situation is a lot better. But you 514 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: have to remember too that these days, a lot of 515 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: times the soldiers who are enlisting typically come from lower 516 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: social and economic areas. They are typically not as educated, 517 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: they don't have as many resources walking in to this 518 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: as someone who is perhaps going straight into college, going 519 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: to go on that more traditional career path and so um. 520 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: And that it trickles down to, you know, their spouses 521 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: into their families. Mean, a lot of these UH couples 522 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: also have children they're caring for as well, and so 523 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: these kinds of resources are are very important to them. 524 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: I mean, they're even base wide baby showers that organizations 525 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: will host just to make sure that military wives have 526 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: enough diapers and onesies and all these things, because it's 527 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: not easy living on a military paycheck at all. Absolutely um. 528 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: And you know, one thing we were discussing, UH regarding 529 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: the whole employment issue was the fact that when you're moving, 530 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: it's hard to develop those professional networks that that can 531 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: help you get a leg up. Well, a judge who 532 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: is a military spouse started the Military Spouse j D 533 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: network as a basically support and professional network for lawyers 534 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 1: who are trying to maintain legal careers while supporting military spouses. 535 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: So it's not only a support network in terms of like, hey, 536 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: let's go get a drink and hang out and be friends, 537 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: it's also literally like a networking uh support group to 538 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: help you get a job when you move. And looking 539 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: from a more general perspective, military dot com slash spouse 540 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: has an entire checklist and overview about all the concerns, responsibilities, 541 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: services and resources that surround military families, particularly spouses and 542 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: Military family dot org how scholarship resources and Kristen mentioned 543 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: Macho spouse earlier the web. The web address for that 544 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: is male mill spouse dot org. If you are a 545 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: military husband wanting to hang out and play golf with 546 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: some buddies, Yeah, I mean, I think if there's one 547 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: big takeaway from this episode, it's that I think, on 548 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: the over the course of stuff, I'm never told you 549 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: We've talked about all different kinds of families and family 550 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: dynamics and this is this is just another one of them. 551 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: And I think from the outside looking in, you might 552 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: not initially be aware of all of the myriad issues 553 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: that are happening, you know, within these military homes. I mean, 554 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: I can't imagine relationships, Caroline, are challenging enough. I just 555 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,879 Speaker 1: you know, to throw the military into that, to throw 556 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 1: a war into that, to throw just probably living in 557 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: a more remote area on a fort somewhere, I can 558 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: only imagine how challenging that has to be and how 559 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: dedicated you have to be to that lifestyle, to your partner, 560 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 1: to your family to make it work. So I cannot 561 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: wait to hear from our military spouses out there. What 562 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: issues are you dealing with? You know? Does any of 563 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: the stuff that we talked about ring true? Are you 564 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: an exception to any of these rules? Yeah? And if 565 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: there are any uh LGBT military spouses listening, um who 566 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: can fill us in on whether or not your needs 567 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: are truly now being met as they should be under 568 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: the letter of the law post don't ask, don't tell, DMA. 569 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 1: We also would love to hear from you, mom, stuff 570 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: at Discovery dot Com is where you can email us 571 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: or you can tweet us at mom Stuff Podcasts, and 572 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: you can also message us on Facebook as well. And 573 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,879 Speaker 1: we've got a couple of messages to share with you 574 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: right now. So we've been hearing a lot about our 575 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: two parter on women in video games, and we've got 576 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: a couple of those messages right now. This one comes 577 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: from Natalie, subject line Lady gamers and the Fallout series. 578 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: She writes, after listening to part two of Women in 579 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: Video Games, I was genuinely surprised you didn't touch upon 580 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 1: the Fallout series. My man friend and actually turned me 581 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: onto the game as he was a huge fan of 582 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: the PC games as a child. When I started playing 583 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: Fallout three and subsequently Fallout three New Vegas, one of 584 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: the most exciting aspects of the games was that I 585 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 1: got to customize my avatar. I could play as male 586 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: or female, and could also choose my race for ethnicity. 587 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: Being a Hispanic woman, nothing was more exciting than seeing 588 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: my clearly Latina avatar kicking butt on screen. The gamemakers 589 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: went even farther when it came to gender equality, especially 590 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: in New Vegas. There are various storylines in which you 591 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: interact with prostitutes and exotic dancers. They're always both male 592 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: and female characters in these lines of works. I had 593 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: never before seen a digital magic Mike doing his thing 594 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: until playing Fallout. There are also plenty of depictions of 595 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: women in power, female bosses, and women of military rank. 596 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: There's even a lesbian couple the protagonist interacts with. To 597 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: top it off, the villains in New Vegas are the 598 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: only misogynists I can remember in either of the two games. 599 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: As you can imagine, the series quickly became one of 600 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: my favorites. Not only are the games well made, but 601 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,280 Speaker 1: the storylines are compelling and the action is pretty awesome. 602 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: If you get a chance, I would definitely suggest playing 603 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: this series, So thanks for the recommendation. Natalie. Okay, Well, 604 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: Lindsay has a letter that makes me want to do 605 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: a Hulk smash um. She writes them to say I 606 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,479 Speaker 1: wanted to offer a personal story about being a woman 607 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: who loves her video games. For me, the sexism I've 608 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: experienced comes from those outside of the activity rather than 609 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: within it. My most recent example was when I was 610 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 1: serving a couple and happened to mention that I love 611 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: to spend my sundays eating pizza, watching football, and playing Madden. 612 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: The man of the couple and I had a brief, 613 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: enthusiastic conversation about video games and football, and he said, well, 614 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 1: the boys must love you. I laughed and began to 615 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 1: walk away, only to hear him lean into his girlfriend 616 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: and say, that's the kind of woman you want to 617 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: hook up with, not the kind you want to marry. Yeah, 618 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 1: and to that, I say, lindsay, it's probably because you're adorable, 619 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 1: and he wanted to for his girlfriend in case she 620 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: was jealous about your exchange about video games. But anyway, 621 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 1: she says. I consider myself fairly feminine. I love fashion, 622 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: my makeup, and baking, but I also love video games, 623 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 1: comic books, and I'm a martial arts instructor and competitor. 624 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: People often get hung up on the more masculine activities 625 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: I enjoy, making comments to some effect that I am 626 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: less suitable for a long term relationship because of them. 627 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 1: The fact that I'm a black belt received similar reactions. 628 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 1: I've had men who were hitting on me physically move 629 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: away when I mentioned what I do. I've also had 630 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 1: men and women ask me if it is hard for 631 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: me to find a guy. The assumption is a man 632 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: would not want to be with me because I could 633 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: beat him up again. Overall, I find little sexism within 634 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 1: the activities I participate in that are traditionally more masculine, 635 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: and far more judgment outside of them. The worst part 636 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: is that the assumptions aren't about me as an individual, 637 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: but about my value as someone's future wife. So I'm 638 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 1: sorry you have to deal with that, Lindsay, but thank 639 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,839 Speaker 1: you for writing in, and thanks again to everyone who's 640 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: written into us. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is 641 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: where you can email us and if you want links 642 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: to all of our social media presences, every single one 643 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: of our podcast, blogs and videos, there's one place to go, 644 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 1: and it's Stuff Mom Never Told You dot com. For 645 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it 646 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com