Speaker 1: Welcome in to the New Orleans Saints Podcast, present a
Speaker 1: buy seacake. You'll hear from players, coaches, broadcasters and writers
Speaker 1: that cover the NFL on a daily basis. The New
Speaker 1: Orleans Saints Podcast starts right now. Here's your host, Aaron Summers.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the New Orleans Saints Podcast, Amaron Summers. Today
Speaker 2: we are going to recap the NFL combine from a
Speaker 2: broader perspective. What players validated, the thoughts of them coming
Speaker 2: into the combine or maybe forced some new opinions the
Speaker 2: whole athletic testing versus what we've seen on film theory.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of things that were said, a
Speaker 2: lot of measurements that were taken, and a lot of opinions,
Speaker 2: of course that we're given. So we're going to bring
Speaker 2: in Mark Ross from the NFL Network. He's spent over
Speaker 2: a decade working in front offices in the NFL, evaluating players,
Speaker 2: making decisions on and what players to draft and who
Speaker 2: can help an organization improve. I mean, he led the
Speaker 2: Giants to two Super Bowls while working for them. Mark,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining me on the New
Speaker 2: Orleans Saints Podcast. It seems like it wasn't that long
Speaker 2: ago that we were all in Indie watching the Combine.
Speaker 2: How were things for you out there?
Speaker 3: Well, for me, it's amazing being on the network side
Speaker 3: because it's stress free and I'm not worried about running
Speaker 3: all night doing interviews and chasing players, and I can
Speaker 3: just you know, I meet with most a lot of
Speaker 3: the team's website and radios, and I can solve everybody's
Speaker 3: problems and don't have to worry about the consequences of
Speaker 3: if I'm wrong about what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Well, after it's all said and done, what were some
Speaker 2: of the storylines that stood out to you or some
Speaker 2: of the things that we saw with people's results when
Speaker 2: they performed, or stuff that was said at podiums.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's always that you know, who's going to shock,
Speaker 3: who's going to be the Combine superstar, And despite the
Speaker 3: years in years years of data that says, you know,
Speaker 3: the Combine really doesn't show a great indication of who
Speaker 3: will be great players, and we still get caught up
Speaker 3: and there's still this fascination with the Combine and the
Speaker 3: Combine Superstars and the fast forties, and for the most part,
Speaker 3: there were those people again once again. So but overall
Speaker 3: I think, you know, I think different team that The
Speaker 3: big thing is that a lot of teams now are
Speaker 3: realizing that. And you know, even the better drafting teams
Speaker 3: like the Eagles and the Rams. The Rams don't even
Speaker 3: show up. The Eagles are very limited with sort of
Speaker 3: how many people they've sent to the combine and how
Speaker 3: much time and resources they put into it. So I
Speaker 3: think this might have been the first year really that
Speaker 3: there's really a shift in Okay, we know this event
Speaker 3: is really an event, and it doesn't show a great indicator,
Speaker 3: and maybe this is the first big step of other
Speaker 3: teams maybe saying there's a more efficient and effective way
Speaker 3: to evaluate this process.
Speaker 2: A lot of teams show up to be able to
Speaker 2: interview multiple players, and they get their little fifteen to
Speaker 2: twenty minute windows and they talk to a ton of
Speaker 2: different people and then they decide who they want to
Speaker 2: have on their official visits. And that's what we're starting
Speaker 2: to see trickle out as different teams that are inviting
Speaker 2: different people for private workouts at the facilities, or they're
Speaker 2: top picks people that they want to see more of.
Speaker 2: When you look at the top, it's going to be
Speaker 2: the Titans with the number one if they keep it,
Speaker 2: which sounds like they will, you know, who do you
Speaker 2: think some of the first people off the board are
Speaker 2: going to be?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so well, I think And here's the fascinating thing
Speaker 3: about drafting and building a team, and you know, let's
Speaker 3: just say the Titans.
Speaker 4: Okay, let's say the options. The three options are.
Speaker 3: I think cam Ward is by far and away the
Speaker 3: best quarterback, and Abdul Carter is the best and let's
Speaker 3: just throw Travis Hunter in there as well, you know,
Speaker 3: an impact player. So let's say they're deciding between these
Speaker 3: three players, and of course in their draft room they're
Speaker 3: talking about that, but they could essentially draft Abdul Carter
Speaker 3: or Travis Hunter and they both could be Rookie of
Speaker 3: the Year, defensive Rookie of the Year, Pro Bowl players
Speaker 3: next year, and the Titans could still have three four
Speaker 3: wins and be picking at the number one spot next year.
Speaker 3: But if they take cam Ward and he is what
Speaker 3: Jaden Daniels was to the Commanders this year, with CJ.
Speaker 3: Stroud was to the Texans last year, then you're talking
Speaker 3: about a playoff team and you're.
Speaker 4: Set for life.
Speaker 3: So you know, the notion of I know they've come
Speaker 3: out and said, well, we're going to take a Pro
Speaker 3: Bowl player, Like, Okay, that's all well and good, and
Speaker 3: you may hit on that player, but you still don't
Speaker 3: change your franchise. And all we have to do is
Speaker 3: look at who are the playoff teams this year? Who
Speaker 3: won the Super Bowl, who was in the Super Bowl,
Speaker 3: who was in the championship games? And they all have
Speaker 3: one thing in common. They got those quarterbacks. And it's
Speaker 3: all great to draft really good players and you have
Speaker 3: to do that, but until you get your quarterback, it
Speaker 3: really doesn't matter. You have to get that. It's almost
Speaker 3: like going to the casino. And I'm not a gambler,
Speaker 3: but I've been to Vegas and casinos where they got
Speaker 3: those high roller rooms and you got to have twenty
Speaker 3: grand to get in there. Well, you better have a
Speaker 3: big time franchise quarterback to get into the discussion of, hey,
Speaker 3: can we win the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2: Okay, so the Rams didn't go to Indy, maybe because
Speaker 2: they were securing their Super Bowl champ right their quarterback
Speaker 2: of the future in Matthew Stafford. How did that change
Speaker 2: the veteran quarterback market and how things may move over the.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, yeah, I think a lot of teams really
Speaker 3: had that. You know, I thought it was odd. I
Speaker 3: thought it was odd when all of that came out
Speaker 3: about Matthew staff Anyway, I like this, this doesn't sound right,
Speaker 3: you know, you know, it had been one thing at
Speaker 3: the Rams, had someone that they had drafted and was
Speaker 3: the air apparent to Matthew Stafford. But to all of
Speaker 3: a sudden, you know, after being a player two away
Speaker 3: from beating the Eagles, you know, in the in the
Speaker 3: playoff game, to say, okay, we're gonna just move on
Speaker 3: from Matthew like that, it didn't make a lot of sense,
Speaker 3: first of all. So and then of course teams get
Speaker 3: a little bit of hope. You know, there's always hope
Speaker 3: in the NFL. There's hope, and that hope of okay,
Speaker 3: well maybe we can get Matthew Stafford. Then once that,
Speaker 3: you know, he was the first domino, he was the
Speaker 3: big fish. Okay, now that you had to reset to say, okay,
Speaker 3: now who's next, whether it's Sam Darnold, whether it's somehow
Speaker 3: in the draft. But you know, he really was the
Speaker 3: only one, in my view, on the market that in
Speaker 3: the right situation, could still make an impact. So I
Speaker 3: think a lot of teams who maybe had their eye
Speaker 3: on it are severely disappointed.
Speaker 2: So now people have to turn to Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson,
Speaker 2: a couple other names that are out there. And you
Speaker 2: mentioned the draft as well. Cam Ward he came away
Speaker 2: with what we're going to say, small hands. Is that
Speaker 2: how they dubbed him there when he got measured. How
Speaker 2: big of a factor do you think that is?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, there's always going to be, you know, the
Speaker 3: measurables and the concerns. But you know, unless you see
Speaker 3: we always always talked about this my draft meeting with
Speaker 3: my staff and coaches, like, is there something about the
Speaker 3: limitations that shows up on film that okay, small hands?
Speaker 4: Okay, does he fumble with the ball? Does he you know,
Speaker 4: does he not throw it? Throw? Well?
Speaker 3: You know, is there something about him having small hands
Speaker 3: that you saw that was a detriment to his play?
Speaker 3: And if not, then really it's a non factor. It
Speaker 3: should be, but of course it's great us in the media.
Speaker 3: We had to bring it up. We have to talk
Speaker 3: about Will Campbell, the offensive tackle from from LSU. The
Speaker 3: arms okay, the arm line, all right, is there something
Speaker 3: that you saw in film about the arm length?
Speaker 4: Well, there no one in history.
Speaker 3: Okay, great, uh, and we're really just talking about you
Speaker 3: know this much that much? Does that much make a
Speaker 3: difference of his play and what you saw, And there's
Speaker 3: always outliers, So you know, that's the interesting part about
Speaker 3: it is, I don't I didn't see anything with cam
Speaker 3: war to say, Okay, he's got you know, the hand
Speaker 3: size wasn't too big, So that's really what you have
Speaker 3: to dig in and look at.
Speaker 2: Yeah it was Will Campbell. He measured thirty two and
Speaker 2: five eighths inches and they said that the standard no
Speaker 2: one has under thirty three. So to your point, yet
Speaker 2: does a very small difference.
Speaker 4: It's incredible.
Speaker 3: And I guarantee you if he goes to his pro day,
Speaker 3: his arm length will be different. There's going to be
Speaker 3: a different measurement for him. I guarantee you he'll be
Speaker 3: thirty three at his pro day, just because you have
Speaker 3: someone else. And if he goes and gets measured somewhere else,
Speaker 3: it'll be differ. There's it's not a measuring someone's arm.
Speaker 4: For people that don't know, you know, they try to
Speaker 4: find the not in your shoulder and they go to
Speaker 4: the end of your hand, and it's not an exact
Speaker 4: science of measurement with these arm and hand lengths. Let's
Speaker 4: just let's say, well.
Speaker 2: When you look at a different quarterback in Ohio States,
Speaker 2: Will Howard his performance at the combine, You know, he
Speaker 2: missed several throws, So how much does that change your
Speaker 2: perception of what he was able to do while at OSU.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think for Will he wasn't really a higher
Speaker 3: rated player anyway. You know, of course they won the
Speaker 3: national championship and the things he did there, but I
Speaker 3: don't think anybody watched Ohio State and said, oh my goodness,
Speaker 3: Will Howard is crushing it. You know, he's the guy,
Speaker 3: He's a top tier pick. So for him, it was
Speaker 3: more about at the combine that was maybe his chance
Speaker 3: to show I am better than what I showed on tape.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately that didn't work out for him. But in a
Speaker 3: controlled setting, once he gets to Ohio State, I'm sure
Speaker 3: with his receivers and everything, he'll crush it. And those
Speaker 3: who feel as if Will Howard has a chance once
Speaker 3: he gets to Ohio State's pro day, that'll help him out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you brought up somebody that's been very popular in
Speaker 2: Travis Hunter a little bit ago and you mentioned him
Speaker 2: as a defensive player, So is that what side of
Speaker 2: the ball you're leaning on, because he's still trying to
Speaker 2: convince people he can play both.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, when I watch him, I think the
Speaker 3: consensus would be more for him to be a corner.
Speaker 3: But when I evaluated him, I think he's a better
Speaker 3: receiver and with a lot more untapped potential at receiver
Speaker 3: and ability to make more impact as a receiver than
Speaker 3: as a corner. And just as I talked about the
Speaker 3: differences between cam Ward and at Bill Carter and Travis
Speaker 3: on the defensive side, on the offensive side, you know,
Speaker 3: as we saw, let's just go to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 4: You know, just.
Speaker 3: DeVante Smith play here. You know that boom you know,
Speaker 3: one player receiver can make. Of course, Cooper dejen had
Speaker 3: the pick, you know, for a touchdown, but that's rare.
Speaker 3: You know, those are rare occurrences. Whereas a receiver, if
Speaker 3: you're getting the ball in a receiver's hand, they have
Speaker 3: the potential to make impact plays almost every drive, whereas
Speaker 3: a corner can almost go through a whole game you
Speaker 3: not know he's there. So when I watch Travis, you
Speaker 3: know his route running is phenomenal. The ball skills are
Speaker 3: incredible and tremendous, and I just think he has a
Speaker 3: lot more untapped potential and ability to make an impact
Speaker 3: on a consistent basis on the offensive side of the ball.
Speaker 3: I think it's going to be far fetched for him
Speaker 3: to do what he did at Colorado. The NFL is
Speaker 3: a man's game. I admire him for what he did
Speaker 3: at Colorado, playing so many snaps, but if he gets
Speaker 3: to the NFL, they will attack him relentlessly on both
Speaker 3: sides of the ball, like they just will. He will
Speaker 3: not be able to hold up. And if he does,
Speaker 3: he'll be the greatest athlete.
Speaker 4: Of all time.
Speaker 2: So do you think that anybody will really allow him
Speaker 2: to do that and play both both ways?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I don't think so. And that's the that's the thing.
Speaker 3: They're not recruiting him. You know, this is not Travis
Speaker 3: Hunter coming out of high school and you're recruiting him
Speaker 3: and trying to convince him.
Speaker 4: When you're in the.
Speaker 3: NFL team, you just draft people, and uh, you know,
Speaker 3: Travis is not going to get drafted by a team
Speaker 3: and say I'm not going to play unless you play
Speaker 3: me both ways. He's going to do what the coaches
Speaker 3: want him to do, and in the interview process at
Speaker 3: the Combine and Free Cowmbine, they may tell him, yeah, Travis.
Speaker 4: You get here, you know we want to play you
Speaker 4: both ways.
Speaker 3: But once he gets there in training camp, somebody's going
Speaker 3: to stick him at a position and say you learn this,
Speaker 3: you get proficient at this, then we'll talk about those
Speaker 3: other both sides of the ball conversation.
Speaker 2: He got some flak for some of the things that
Speaker 2: he said and his confidence and maybe came across as
Speaker 2: too cocky, But when you look at him and should
Speaker 2: our Sanders he I mean he has a camera crew
Speaker 2: follow him everywhere he goes. I mean that's going to
Speaker 2: be a big spotlight that's going to be on wherever
Speaker 2: those players go because of what they came from. Because
Speaker 2: obviously Sanders' dad is so is that something that you
Speaker 2: take into consideration when you're talking about amongst the front
Speaker 2: office about drafting people.
Speaker 3: Well, that's why you do the interviews, and that's why
Speaker 3: you talk, and that's why you.
Speaker 4: Evaluate these players for what.
Speaker 3: You see in them and not what other teams may say.
Speaker 3: Because look, Travis Hunter could have went through sixty interviews,
Speaker 3: seventy interviews eighty interviews this past week, and one person
Speaker 3: could have said something negative and that gets the attention,
Speaker 3: not the sixty nine other that say, oh, he's fantastic.
Speaker 3: It's the one negative that gets the attention. And who
Speaker 3: knows what the agenda is of that one person, who
Speaker 3: knows where that person is coming from. I think there's
Speaker 3: been enough tape and video of have this and Shador
Speaker 3: talking and interviewing it.
Speaker 4: You can.
Speaker 3: You don't need to go to the combine and tell
Speaker 3: you it's just looking and google Travis Hunter or Shador Centers.
Speaker 4: Interviews and you have enough.
Speaker 3: You have enough evidence to form your own opinion, whether
Speaker 3: you're an NFL person or a regular person. So uh,
Speaker 3: I think those those guys handled themselves with class, especially
Speaker 3: both being I mean, it's such you know, the attention
Speaker 3: that they get, as you mentioned, it's just amazing. And
Speaker 3: all I've heard and all I've seen from those two
Speaker 3: is just handling themselves like professionals.
Speaker 2: What did you make of Texas wide receiver Isaiah Bond
Speaker 2: saying that he was going to run sub four two
Speaker 2: and him from four three four?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's just you know, he just should not have
Speaker 3: put that that target on his back like that, and
Speaker 3: he could have went and ran a four to four
Speaker 3: not said anything, and people would have been talking about,
Speaker 3: oh man, we really like Isaiah Bond and you know,
Speaker 3: he ran fast and he's interesting and for him to
Speaker 3: do that and I don't know, but I don't know
Speaker 3: if his if his speed coach was timing him and
Speaker 3: tell him it was four two. But there's absolutely no
Speaker 3: way you go from that to what he ran and
Speaker 3: really come out with those comments, especially coming from Texas.
Speaker 4: So he knows Xavier Worthy.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not as if he's gone, you know,
Speaker 3: it was Texas in Alabama or Florida at the USC mean,
Speaker 3: he was at the school with the guy, so he
Speaker 3: obviously knows, like, I have no chance of being faster
Speaker 3: than Xavier Worthy, So you know, it was kind of
Speaker 3: a bizarre thing. And again getting back to Combine interviews
Speaker 3: and doing it for twenty years, and we had, you know,
Speaker 3: every night before a player would run like what are
Speaker 3: you gonna run themro I'm gonna run a four to four.
Speaker 3: I want to run this, And the percentage of people
Speaker 3: that actually ran as fast as they said was about
Speaker 3: five percent. So I've heard that a lot of players
Speaker 3: promising a time and not living up to it.
Speaker 2: That's fair. With the running backs, Ashton Genty has been
Speaker 2: getting obviously the most pub talked about the most, but
Speaker 2: players like UNC's running back a Mario and Hampton really
Speaker 2: did well at the Combine and became a name that
Speaker 2: started getting talked about. Do you think there might be
Speaker 2: a running back resurgence? Come in now with you know
Speaker 2: what Saquon Barkley was able to do this past year
Speaker 2: at the Eagles.
Speaker 3: Well, this is in the off season, probably the most
Speaker 3: asked question, and there's not a resurgence.
Speaker 4: It's a What happened last year really.
Speaker 3: Was a culminator, culmination and an intersection of you had three,
Speaker 3: maybe four really outstanding running backs that got into situations
Speaker 3: that were completely ideal.
Speaker 4: So you look at Sakwon Barkley, who was.
Speaker 3: An amazing player and got with an amazing team, you know,
Speaker 3: after living in misery there in New York. Then you
Speaker 3: got Derrick Henry, who was always an instant Hall of Famer. Okay,
Speaker 3: let me go get get the Ravens and crush it.
Speaker 3: Josh Jacobs was already an outstanding player. Okay, hey, let
Speaker 3: me get with a really good Green Bay team and
Speaker 3: I played really well. So I think the notion of
Speaker 3: drafting a running back for him to go save your team,
Speaker 3: or this resurgence, I don't think that's there. I think
Speaker 3: it's still teams even more so double down on Oh,
Speaker 3: if we're a really good team, Okay, now we can
Speaker 3: add this running back piece, a super talented running back.
Speaker 4: To go with all these other talented players.
Speaker 3: But if you're a bad team and you're drafting a
Speaker 3: running back too high, then you're still going to be
Speaker 3: a bad team with a running back being beat up.
Speaker 3: So I think if teams take this the right way
Speaker 3: with where running back's value is on your team, then
Speaker 3: that's the resurgence. But I think if if a team
Speaker 3: takes as genty in the top five and they're not
Speaker 3: a good team, I don't think we'll hear much from
Speaker 3: from Ashton or say he changed that team around.
Speaker 4: But if he goes to a team let's say I
Speaker 4: don't know.
Speaker 3: Who needs a running back now that's really really good,
Speaker 3: that would be the optimal situation.
Speaker 2: So do you think that he could be a team's
Speaker 2: top pick just based on where they draft.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I gotta look through the draft board.
Speaker 4: I gotta But.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, a team, a team that is a
Speaker 3: playoff team that doesn't have an impact running back and
Speaker 3: has other playmakers on offense.
Speaker 4: That's that's the ideal fit for him.
Speaker 3: A team without a quarterback, a team that's not very good,
Speaker 3: that is a bad fit for him, but he needs
Speaker 3: to get in a situation for him and that team.
Speaker 3: Then you take it to a whole other level of Wow,
Speaker 3: we have a really super talented running back with a
Speaker 3: really good team with a bunch of other playmakers. Now
Speaker 3: put him on that team and go like, you know,
Speaker 3: just let's just talk about Saquon. Is Saquon flipped again
Speaker 3: and goes to the Giants next year? He's not going
Speaker 3: to be the Saquon Barkley we saw this year.
Speaker 2: So if that's different.
Speaker 4: It's that simple. It's really that simple.
Speaker 3: He's not going to go even though we saw the
Speaker 3: very best version of historic version of sain Kwon Barkley
Speaker 3: this year, if he if he's on the Giants next year,
Speaker 3: he will not.
Speaker 4: He'll be that same guy that he was before he
Speaker 4: got to the Eagles.
Speaker 2: So you're telling me that it was all Kellen Moore, right, Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah? For Saints fans, absolutely, he unlocked it all. It
Speaker 4: wasn't Jalen Hurts or A. J.
Speaker 3: Brown or Devonte Smith or Dallas Goddard the best line
Speaker 3: in football.
Speaker 4: It was just Kellen Moore scheme of it all up. Yes,
Speaker 4: YEA love to hear that.
Speaker 2: That's great. With everybody that's out there to be drafted
Speaker 2: this year, what position group has the most depth?
Speaker 3: Well, I think the tight end group is amazing just
Speaker 3: kind of everybody I watched there and they're all they're
Speaker 3: all very different, you know, with with Warren and Loveland
Speaker 3: and and Fannin and and Arroyo. I mean they're they're
Speaker 3: all a little mix and match and different with what
Speaker 3: they do. But I think impact in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3: The corner group, I think is is out that's probably
Speaker 3: you know, the tight end, I think it's top heavy
Speaker 3: and you got a bunch of just six guys are
Speaker 3: going to be instant starters and help. But that the
Speaker 3: corner group, man, I go twelve deep or something with
Speaker 3: I think guys that are really first round talents, instant
Speaker 3: starter talents. So if you're looking that way, you know
Speaker 3: O line is really solid there and you know the
Speaker 3: D line is good. I think there's a lot of
Speaker 3: developmental guys there, but some talents so but overall, I
Speaker 3: think number one is corner as far as top to
Speaker 3: bottom and then tight end as far as top heavy,
Speaker 3: really really good players.
Speaker 2: Which NFL team do you think has the most potential
Speaker 2: to drastically improve next year?
Speaker 3: Oh Man, drastically improved. Well again, I'll go back to Tennessee.
Speaker 3: They got the first pick, and I think if they
Speaker 3: take cam Ward and cam Ward is who I think
Speaker 3: he has the potential to be and what he has
Speaker 3: shown to be and developed into, they have the most
Speaker 3: I mean, that's it right there. I mean, and we've
Speaker 3: seen it the past two years again with Jaden Daniels
Speaker 3: last year and CJ. Shroud the year before. So that
Speaker 3: shows you you have that picking that high and you
Speaker 3: have the chance. And those guys were the second pick,
Speaker 3: so you know, that's that shows you how fast things
Speaker 3: can turn for a team.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it so much. Thank you for giving me
Speaker 2: some insight into the combine and the upcoming draft. And
Speaker 2: I also like your sentiments on our new head coach.
Speaker 4: Yes, the thank you, my pleasure. All right.
Speaker 2: The NFL Combine just continues to set the stage for
Speaker 2: the big event April twenty fourth. That is the first
Speaker 2: round of the NFL Draft in Green Bay this year.
Speaker 2: The twenty fifth will be the second and third round,
Speaker 2: and then April twenty sixth, the remainder of the draft
Speaker 2: rounds four through seven. We'll be there every step of
Speaker 2: the way, of course, so you can always keep up
Speaker 2: with all of our free agency coverage. We're going to
Speaker 2: introduce these new coaches to you pretty soon as well,
Speaker 2: and anything else you need to know on New Orleans
Speaker 2: Saints dot com.
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