Speaker 1: Welcome to Chopping it Up. I'm your host, Mike Hanlon,
Speaker 1: the senior Restaurant and Food Service analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 1: Our research and that a bi's five hundred analysts around
Speaker 1: the globe can be found exclusively on the Bloomberg terminal. Today,
Speaker 1: we're joined by Christine Schindler, the CEO and co founder
Speaker 1: of Pathspot. It's good to see you, Christine.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Mike.
Speaker 1: Happy Halloween, same to you. Got any Halloween plans.
Speaker 3: You know, mostly just tackling the scary issues of food safety.
Speaker 2: That's where I'm at today.
Speaker 1: Nicely done, nicely done. I don't have a costume this year,
Speaker 1: but I'll be checking out nieces and nephews later. All right,
Speaker 1: why don't we start out by you telling the audience
Speaker 1: about your background and how pathspot came to be sure.
Speaker 3: My background is in biomedical engineering and global and public health,
Speaker 3: and I had started my career on the research side
Speaker 3: of that world. And I spent time actually living and
Speaker 3: working in the developing world, some in the Kilimanjaro region,
Speaker 3: and I was working on how to build really low
Speaker 3: cost but medical grade tools and technologies, obviously for very
Speaker 3: resource constricted settings in those environments. How do we make
Speaker 3: our medical click equipment that we're so fortunate to have
Speaker 3: in our hospital networks here domestically work when there's you know,
Speaker 3: no air conditioning and no sealing and.
Speaker 2: No Wi Fi and no power.
Speaker 3: And when I got back to the US and I
Speaker 3: was working full time in healthcare networks here domestically, I
Speaker 3: just started to see all of these public health issues
Speaker 3: here that could also benefit low cost, durable, accessible medical
Speaker 3: type tools, but for everyday public health issues. And one
Speaker 3: of them at the time was these massive issues around
Speaker 3: food boorn illness, which is still hitting our news desk
Speaker 3: today right people getting incredibly sick hospitalizations even deaths from
Speaker 3: these outbreaks that cost brands tons of money. And often
Speaker 3: we look at it and we say, you know, oh well,
Speaker 3: well it was let us or you know, it was cereal.
Speaker 3: But looking at that and thinking these things don't spawn illness, right, like,
Speaker 3: what could we have done differently in our supply chain?
Speaker 3: How can we stop the spread when something does enter
Speaker 3: into our supply chain?
Speaker 2: How do we actually detect this?
Speaker 3: And that's what got me so excited to be on
Speaker 3: this mission of preventing food boarn illness?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 3: Very cool?
Speaker 1: And one of the products that Passpot offers are these
Speaker 1: hand scanners, right, and so I've seen them at a
Speaker 1: couple of conferences. Now, what conference attendees have the dirtiest hands?
Speaker 3: Okay, I gotta be honest, it's definitely pretty rough. At
Speaker 3: marketing based conferences.
Speaker 2: I think there's got to be something there.
Speaker 3: No, But in all seriousness, this stuff is everywhere, especially
Speaker 3: when you're at a conference and you're mentioning you know,
Speaker 3: our flagship product, which is the Passpot hand scanner, And
Speaker 3: this device tackles the number one issue around food borne illness.
Speaker 2: We know what it is.
Speaker 3: It's food handling, it's hand washing behavior. It's eighty nine
Speaker 3: percent of the outbreaks that come are tied back to
Speaker 3: that in some form or fashion. And so it's a
Speaker 3: device that people put their hands underneath, flip them over,
Speaker 3: and instantly see if they have invisible contamination present on
Speaker 3: their hands, and then use that data to inform, incentivize
Speaker 3: and encourage proper handwashing and hygiene behavior across the restaurant environment.
Speaker 3: And in a conference, you have situations where people are
Speaker 3: shaking hands with each other, you know, going to and
Speaker 3: from all these different sessions. So we see large spikes
Speaker 3: and contamination at conference season.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and for the record, I was. I tested myself
Speaker 1: once at ICR and I came. I came through clean.
Speaker 1: One for one, I pulled.
Speaker 3: Your scans before I before I came on this podcast.
Speaker 2: I want to say, Mike, You're always good. It's all
Speaker 2: all kosher now good.
Speaker 1: Good to hear. All right, let's see uh salmonilla lysteria
Speaker 1: now e cole a. I'm McDonald's. Twenty twenty four is
Speaker 1: a year. Is a year to forget when it comes
Speaker 1: to food safety. What's going on out there?
Speaker 2: You know, this stuff is always out there, right, And
Speaker 2: the reality is.
Speaker 3: These spikes or these instances, they draw people to the problem,
Speaker 3: But we're constantly fighting these bacteria with our customers day.
Speaker 2: In and day out, and it comes from all different sources.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I always joke like nobody walks into a restaurant with
Speaker 3: a vial of E. Coli, Right, That's not how it
Speaker 3: gets into our foods supply chain. But whether you know
Speaker 3: this is coming from contaminated situations and supply chain, coming
Speaker 3: from you know, team member and watching behavior.
Speaker 2: We know how to stop the spread, and.
Speaker 3: That's what we really focus on because, like you said,
Speaker 3: this stuff is everywhere and it's.
Speaker 1: Not going away, all right, So let's dig into E
Speaker 1: coli a bit. Obviously, that's the hot news of the
Speaker 1: last week or so McDonald's and you know, I think
Speaker 1: there's about ninety people infected now, more than you know,
Speaker 1: more than two dozen in the hospital, one on one
Speaker 1: tragically passed away. So you know, the last three instances
Speaker 1: that I've seen in my space in the public restaurant
Speaker 1: chain arena, it was two there was let us set
Speaker 1: Chipotle and Wendy's and not Wendy's. And now there's onions
Speaker 1: at McDonald's. So how does E coli get onto produce?
Speaker 2: The reality is it can come in a lot of
Speaker 2: different spots.
Speaker 3: And the more times, and this is kind of a
Speaker 3: general rule of thumb in the world of food safety,
Speaker 3: the more instances for food handling, the more times something
Speaker 3: could be contaminated. And that includes at a farm or
Speaker 3: at a produce center. That includes at different distribution and
Speaker 3: food manufacturing centers. That includes as it gets into team members'
Speaker 3: hands and onto consumer's plates. Every single one of those
Speaker 3: counts as a food handling situation, and the number of
Speaker 3: times that goes up directly correlates to how likely there
Speaker 3: is going to be increase contamination from any number of.
Speaker 2: Sources, right, And the reality is we'll probably never know.
Speaker 3: You know, was it infected where There's so many different
Speaker 3: possible points. So what I usually try to focus on is, Okay,
Speaker 3: how do we reduce the things that we know increase
Speaker 3: the overall rate of transmission across these different vectors?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 3: Cool?
Speaker 1: And can you kind of talk about what you think
Speaker 1: the impact to the brand could be for the McDonald's outbreak?
Speaker 2: You know, I think.
Speaker 3: More than ever, it's not just how consumers view one
Speaker 3: specific situation. Right. You hear a lot of people saying
Speaker 3: cleanliness is the new ambiadds like people are looking for
Speaker 3: ways to feel safe in their environments, both in how
Speaker 3: they they work and also how they where they eat.
Speaker 3: So it's a big topic of conversation in the labor
Speaker 3: dialogue in how people are choosing which restaurants to go
Speaker 3: to and where to eat at. And I think how
Speaker 3: a brand response to that is also a really critical
Speaker 3: indicator in you know, their accountability, their responsibility, and their
Speaker 3: desire to make a broader impact and to tackle these
Speaker 3: issues head on. And I think it's also interesting because
Speaker 3: one instance of food safety challenge and this is my
Speaker 3: favorite part about being in the world of food safety.
Speaker 2: I mean, I love being in the world of restaurants
Speaker 2: in general.
Speaker 3: And Mike, you and I have talked about this, like
Speaker 3: the collaboration and the effort and the energy.
Speaker 2: And the impact that you get to drive.
Speaker 3: It's why I have never going back after making the
Speaker 3: shift for healthcare and how much.
Speaker 2: I love being in this industry.
Speaker 3: If you look at food safety, and there's another layer
Speaker 3: on that, this is a collaborative effort. One instance in
Speaker 3: one chain impacts how people view the safety of the
Speaker 3: supply chain and eating out in general. One issue in
Speaker 3: one grocery store impacts how people feel about ordering deli
Speaker 3: meat from any grocery store. And so it's not just
Speaker 3: about one brand or one instinct. It's about how do
Speaker 3: we as a society respond to the growing demands of
Speaker 3: food safety issues, and then how collectively across the industry.
Speaker 3: Food safety so unified because it's something everyone needs to
Speaker 3: do to be able to make sure that our consumers
Speaker 3: feel safe wherever they eat. And we find that not
Speaker 3: only does investing in this help different types of technologies
Speaker 3: and tools and even just increased level of training and
Speaker 3: certainly on these programs that most brands already have.
Speaker 2: Right, not only does it impact the.
Speaker 3: Broader public perception and the reduction of these broader instances,
Speaker 3: but it also impacts the bottom line by investing in
Speaker 3: safety and using that to drive other operational efficiencies and
Speaker 3: creating a safe and healthy work environment for employees.
Speaker 1: For sure, I was shocked to read that forty eight
Speaker 1: million people get sick from food born illness each year.
Speaker 1: So I feel like I'm.
Speaker 3: Kind of probably even more than that because that's the
Speaker 3: ones that are reported. But how many times, like, let's
Speaker 3: be real, how many times have you gotten sick for
Speaker 3: food borne illness? Have been like we better go report that,
Speaker 3: I better go fill out a form, Like usually it's
Speaker 3: just like, all right, I'm going to have a rough
Speaker 3: night on the toilet, right, and then you move on
Speaker 3: to the next day.
Speaker 2: So these things are happening all the time.
Speaker 3: And it's also you know, this is a fun side
Speaker 3: back on that the vast majority actually of those reported
Speaker 3: food board illnesses come from people that are working in
Speaker 3: food service actually around these contaminants all the time when
Speaker 3: you're working in a food service environment, and so Actually,
Speaker 3: reduction in sick days is one of the things we
Speaker 3: often track when we install our system, because if we
Speaker 3: can help team members stay safe and have a safe
Speaker 3: work environment, you're also going to see less callouts from
Speaker 3: people getting sick.
Speaker 2: In their own restaurants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to your point underreporting, I'm like, I don't. I'm like,
Speaker 1: when was the last time I got sick from a restaurant?
Speaker 1: And then I'm like, well, at some points I've had
Speaker 1: stomach issues. Maybe I just figured it was a stomach bug, right,
Speaker 1: maybe it was actually something, you know, in terms of
Speaker 1: a food borne pathogen or.
Speaker 2: Something you'll think of me next time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I've never I've never reported it, So yeah,
Speaker 4: I guess that's probably largely underreported, which is mind boggling
Speaker 4: to me.
Speaker 1: Right, that's like fourteen ish percent of the United States
Speaker 1: is getting sick every year. What are some of the things,
Speaker 1: you know, in addition to training proper hand washing techniques
Speaker 1: and things in that nature, what are some of the
Speaker 1: other things that restaurants can do to protect themselves.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean hand washing is a crucial one, and
Speaker 3: so you know how you're actually creating actionable information on
Speaker 3: that because oftentimes the trainings right now, are you need
Speaker 3: to wash your hands once an hour for thirty seconds?
Speaker 2: It's important And I mean not to.
Speaker 3: Pick on you, Mike, but like that might be out
Speaker 3: your ear and then the other before you go to
Speaker 3: the next you know station. Right, Like, there's so many
Speaker 3: things to do in a restaurant, and so if you're
Speaker 3: not creating accountability and actual metrics around this, and that's why,
Speaker 3: you know, we really flicked the switch on that and
Speaker 3: we read really customized trainings based off the data. So
Speaker 3: we'll say to team members, hey, we need to wash
Speaker 3: your hands during the lunch rush because we missed it
Speaker 3: last lunch rush. We got to make sure we get
Speaker 3: those in and look, guys, it was ring fingers. We
Speaker 3: know contamination gets in those rings, take them off or
Speaker 3: make sure you scrub your ring finger extra.
Speaker 2: What do you see?
Speaker 3: Contamination rates go down, hand washes go up, and you
Speaker 3: create a healthier work environment. So that's one big piece.
Speaker 3: The other components that we really focus on from a
Speaker 3: holistic safety solution set, because Patspot is more than just handwashing,
Speaker 3: although that's a critical piece to our hub. We have
Speaker 3: a robust platform to cover all aspects of food safety
Speaker 3: and ensure those are met and held, but huge one
Speaker 3: is temperature requirements. It is wild how much has to
Speaker 3: go into monitoring propriate appropriate temperature of food itself, of
Speaker 3: ambient environments of food when it's on a prep station
Speaker 3: versus when it's cooler, versus when it's in a freezer,
Speaker 3: and so really tracking that food throughout the entire supply
Speaker 3: chain and making sure it's held at the right temperatures
Speaker 3: is something that can really reduce your rate of spread
Speaker 3: of infection. Another big piece that people more often equate
Speaker 3: to sustainability for or waste is actually expiration making sure
Speaker 3: that food has not expired, making sure you're using food
Speaker 3: within the proper expiration limits. You know, that's a really
Speaker 3: big component of work that we try to help support
Speaker 3: restaurants in. And then all these different digital safety logs.
Speaker 3: You know, there are so many of them, and let's
Speaker 3: be real, we've all been in the back of a
Speaker 3: restaurant when someone's like, oh no, an auditor is coming
Speaker 3: and they're taking a pen and going down the checklist
Speaker 3: and you hear the manager say, like, change the pen
Speaker 3: when you're like pencil whipping the logs And it's hard
Speaker 3: because I know how challenging it is to keep up
Speaker 3: with everything that's going on, and so whatever you can
Speaker 3: do to actually look at and really look at that
Speaker 3: problem and think about as a restaurant operator, like how
Speaker 3: do we increase through book through these logs and make
Speaker 3: sure that they're actually done appropriately and how do we
Speaker 3: ensure that they're easy to fill out and seamless so
Speaker 3: that we're not in a spot where we're short.
Speaker 2: Changing that and potentially opening ourselves up to it an issue.
Speaker 1: So it sounds like you're aggregating a lot of data
Speaker 1: for your restaurant clients.
Speaker 2: Tons of data.
Speaker 3: And the interesting thing is all this data starts to
Speaker 3: play together. Issues with hand washing spike also get correlated
Speaker 3: to when things are expiring more quickly, or you can
Speaker 3: quickly figure out that when something was going in through
Speaker 3: the safety checklist, maybe the temperatures fell out of range
Speaker 3: because the doors were propped open. And so how do
Speaker 3: we actually play with all this data together? I mean,
Speaker 3: data is only useful, especially to a very busy restaurant environment,
Speaker 3: if you're giving actionable things that are able to elevate
Speaker 3: the instore experience.
Speaker 2: And then pull out nuggets.
Speaker 3: Of information across the board that we can use to
Speaker 3: actually inform SOPs and adjust them to be the right
Speaker 3: SOPs because I think for a lot of operators, it's
Speaker 3: just really easy to go with a baseline set. Let's
Speaker 3: check our attempts once an hour, let's wash our hands
Speaker 3: once every thirty minutes. Sounds good, but it might not
Speaker 3: actually be right. Like there might be more fluidness to that.
Speaker 3: There's probably a more dynamic nature of when you actually
Speaker 3: need to be doing these things and the right way
Speaker 3: to pull these different safety tasks together.
Speaker 2: And I think the data becomes really compelling in that
Speaker 2: use case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting. And I think when we spoke
Speaker 1: in the past, you said that a lot most a lot,
Speaker 1: if not most, especially like mom and pop shops, really
Speaker 1: just have a lot of this information in a binder.
Speaker 3: Rights it's most locations have everything at a binder. That
Speaker 3: is really the most common use case is. And I've
Speaker 3: talked to so many brands and this scales all the
Speaker 3: way up to major organizations and it's like, all right,
Speaker 3: talk to me about your safety system, because I mean,
Speaker 3: the reality is it's also very customized and unique depending
Speaker 3: on the group, and we want to work to build
Speaker 3: into their platform, not reinvent the wheel. And every single
Speaker 3: time someone goes into the back in the office and
Speaker 3: they come out and I've got a binder that's taller
Speaker 3: than my base, and they're like, that's what we fill
Speaker 3: out every single week. I mean literally, it's the background
Speaker 3: of my phone is like a picture of these binders
Speaker 3: to remind us like, that is what we're trying to
Speaker 3: solve for. Because let's be real, if you have a
Speaker 3: bunch of pieces of paper and a binder, you're not
Speaker 3: learning anything from that. That's not helping elevate you. We're
Speaker 3: doing them anyway. Let's do it right and then be
Speaker 3: able to make a better and more effective environment for everyone.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's great. Yeah, you're not cleaning any insights, You're
Speaker 1: not finding any correlations in that binder for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's stressful.
Speaker 3: The auditor comes in and they're like, okay, what happened
Speaker 3: on three weeks ago Wednesday? You're like flipping through binders
Speaker 3: like trying to find us post it note where you
Speaker 3: did your corrective action.
Speaker 2: We digitize all that. We got a digital binder.
Speaker 4: Very cool.
Speaker 1: Are there any other technologies that restaurants can use that
Speaker 1: you haven't mentioned already? To kind of avoid spreading pathogens
Speaker 1: and protect employees and customers.
Speaker 3: I mean, a lot of this is just how do
Speaker 3: you train and encourage team members and how are you
Speaker 3: elevating team members. One thing that I think is so
Speaker 3: interesting is oftentimes when we start to install our system
Speaker 3: or we work with other platforms that offer trainings or
Speaker 3: other components, the most common thing I hear from team
Speaker 3: members is them saying, I know that my brand cares
Speaker 3: about me. Like, what do you mean, Like, well, my
Speaker 3: time matters, because I was going around filling out these
Speaker 3: books I was doing like all these random trainings. You know.
Speaker 3: Now it showcases they're putting time and technology behind this
Speaker 3: because I matter, and my time matters, and my interaction
Speaker 3: with guests matters. And I'm like, that's so awesome. That's
Speaker 3: exactly how they want you to feel. And that is
Speaker 3: why they're investing in these tools, not only to make
Speaker 3: sure it's done right, but to make sure they don't
Speaker 3: have to be wasting time, you know, doing things that
Speaker 3: we're taking hours on pen and paper and could be
Speaker 3: a way more.
Speaker 2: Effective use caase.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very cool. It's interesting that you say that
Speaker 1: because yesterday we had Starbucks earnings call and new CEO
Speaker 1: Brian Nickel talked a lot about visiting employees and visiting baristas,
Speaker 1: asking them about their jobs and figuring out, you know,
Speaker 1: how how can they make their lives and their jobs
Speaker 1: easier for them. So, yeah, it's it's very important because
Speaker 1: you know, turnovers an issue in this industry, right, and
Speaker 1: if you can, you know, show here employees that you
Speaker 1: really care about them, you really do care about their health,
Speaker 1: I think can be a competitive advantage.
Speaker 3: When we talk to team members and I've never met
Speaker 3: a chef or anyone who went into food service and
Speaker 3: was like I really got into this because I was
Speaker 3: excited about the safety logs, like no one, right, And
Speaker 3: so when you think about that, they got into this
Speaker 3: because they want to interact with guests. They care about food,
Speaker 3: they want to serve good food, they want to, you know,
Speaker 3: provide a positive experience for someone. You hear all those
Speaker 3: things all the time. Why do I choose to work
Speaker 3: in the food service industry? Never once food safety logs?
Speaker 3: And yet team members are spending hours a day filling
Speaker 3: out safety logs. And so if we can actually empower
Speaker 3: them to redirect the time to the things only they
Speaker 3: can do interact with guests, prepare great food, you know,
Speaker 3: bring that extra experience of welcoming people because they're not
Speaker 3: in the back, checking on the temperature cooler events, and
Speaker 3: then do all those things and make sure they're done
Speaker 3: right and get them the information they need to be
Speaker 3: able to do their job. That's been one of the
Speaker 3: most exciting parts of working on safety is knowing it's happening,
Speaker 3: but then elevating everyone else working in the back of
Speaker 3: the house to do the stuff that they do best,
Speaker 3: that only they can do.
Speaker 2: That technology is never going to be able to replace
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: All right, So this one, this one's really for me.
Speaker 1: This question, how do we perfect ourselves?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: How do we.
Speaker 1: Protect ourselves at home? I think I think I was
Speaker 1: Mexican in a past life. I make a mean Margarita's
Speaker 1: and I make a mean guacamole, right, But I'm afraid
Speaker 1: that the cilantro might get me one day. So what
Speaker 1: can I do to make sure I don't get poisoned
Speaker 1: by my own cilantro?
Speaker 3: Well, one thing is that you can encourage your food
Speaker 3: supply and the places you shop and that you buy
Speaker 3: from to evoke a proper food safety standards. Like that's
Speaker 3: something that we as consumers do have a responsibility to do.
Speaker 2: And you know, I think that people really respond to
Speaker 2: that when consumers.
Speaker 3: Say it matters to me that my food is safe
Speaker 3: and fresh and clean, and it's communicated that it's been
Speaker 3: held at the right temperatures or with the right expiration,
Speaker 3: or you know, when they like that we have a
Speaker 3: hand washer of the day posted outside of a restaurant
Speaker 3: that we work with.
Speaker 2: That makes a big difference. And then the next best
Speaker 2: thing you can do, honestly is just do a full
Speaker 2: and complete hand wash. And this means the whole happy
Speaker 2: birthday thing twice through.
Speaker 5: And washing in all those areas that you don't think
Speaker 5: to wash it.
Speaker 2: It's not just a palm situation.
Speaker 3: If you take anyone listening to this right now, take
Speaker 3: one thing away from you right now.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say, wash your thumbs.
Speaker 5: Wash nails, wash your wrists, and make sure you hit
Speaker 5: those high risk areas because it's going to make you
Speaker 5: infinitely more effective and in not getting sick across your day.
Speaker 1: That's good advice, all right. So my fate is in
Speaker 1: my hands, but I I think.
Speaker 2: I watched in your hands.
Speaker 1: But I think I'm pretty good about that. My son
Speaker 1: was born early and he was in the nick you
Speaker 1: for a while for a couple of months, six weeks,
Speaker 1: and they taught us how to wash our hands. It
Speaker 1: was a full two minutes getting in, getting into everything.
Speaker 1: So I think I have pretty good habits there. And
Speaker 1: then yeah, it's Montclair Whole Foods monthly, New Jersey Whole Foods.
Speaker 1: Hopefully they're they're on there, they're on top of things.
Speaker 3: Shout out to them, let's get them on the platform.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining me.
Speaker 4: Listen.
Speaker 1: You make a topic that can be you know, kind
Speaker 1: of tough, pretty exciting. So that's a that's uh, that's
Speaker 1: a very good talent you have, Christine. Where can the
Speaker 1: audience go to find out some more about passpot?
Speaker 3: Yeah, check out pathspot dot com. Feel free to reach
Speaker 3: out there. We'd love to hear your thoughts on what
Speaker 3: we're working on and any ideas anyone in the audience
Speaker 3: has on how we can keep elevating safety across the board.
Speaker 1: And thanks to the audience for tuning in. If you
Speaker 1: liked the episode, please subscribe and leave us a review.
Speaker 1: Check back soon for a discussion about restaurant trends with
Speaker 1: Tom Wagner, founder and partner at Restaurant Insight Monitor