WEBVTT - Midtown Is Still Empty, Landlords Sounding the Alarm 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.240 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser. Every day 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.200 we're bringing you the latest news from the world's of 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.920 business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.160 in the world of politics, economics, and it's all harnessing 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.840 the power of Business Week reporters and editors. If you 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.280 can download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:20.480 dot com. If you can also listen to our radio 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:23.439 show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and be 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.280 sure to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:28.880 Global News. As Lisa and I were just discussing, you know, 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:30.680 as it relates to the pandemic, it's kind of on 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:32.960 a tale of two cities. On on the one one hand, 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.680 you've got surge in cases, but on the other hand 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:39.360 you have that vaccines coming to the market and increasing quantities. 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:41.680 So we have to play those two off one another. 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.280 Let's get the latest on all things as it relates 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:46.960 to the pandemic. We do that with Dr Ian LUs Better, 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.159 clinical Associate Professor of Medicine at the n y U 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.120 Lenggo and Medical Center, joining us on the phone from 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.360 New York. Dr LUs Better, thanks once again so much 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:58.040 for joining us. I wonder if you could just give 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.960 us a sense as a real lates to the virus 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.640 and the cases we're seeing right now. Um, is it 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:07.319 manageable in the New York City or the greater metro 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.480 health system. We can do a better job this time 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:12.280 that perhaps we did back in March and April when 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.640 we were just blindsided. Yeah, I think we've learned a lot. 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:20.440 And Happy Friday, Lisa and Paul, thanks for having me. Um. Yeah, 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:23.320 New York definitely is is really now in sort of 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:28.280 the lower third of new cases compared to nationally, And 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:30.319 I think a lot of that is based on on 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.679 the very rough March and April we had where really 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:37.800 the system was stretched to its max. Literally every bed 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:42.679 plush was assigned to COVID patients and all of the 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:48.360 major medical centers, auditoriums were used, halways were used, uh 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.360 you know, tensor set up as we remember, even Mount 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:55.040 Sinai in in Central Park. So we really were stressed 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.080 at that point. I think a number of New Yorkers 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.440 have antibodies. They may have lost them along the way, 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:04.640 but I believe a part of the reason New York 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.360 is at this point in terms of new cases at 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:12.080 the lower third nationally. Unfortunately, states like you know, Tennessee, 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:17.440 California really still have you know, Wisconsin still have a 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:21.080 huge number of new cases coming. Part of that probably 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.760 due to the Thanksgiving a bump. You know, we knew 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.680 families were getting together, kids were coming back from college, 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:31.800 so we sort of expected, uh, you know, attend a 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:34.440 period of from Thanksgiving when there really would be a 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.200 bump in cases. But New York so far has been 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:41.200 faring pretty well. There's a lot to unpack here, I've 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:43.640 got to say, just you flicking at those tents in 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.000 Central Park reminds me of some pretty dark days in 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.239 New York City. I remember running past those and thinking, 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:53.280 is this the United States of America? I am wondering, though, 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.040 is there an inference that we can make about the 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.880 hospitalization numbers being much lower now than they used to be. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.040 Is it just that more people are getting tested, so 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.920 we're getting more positives, or is the actual care for 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.959 people who are diagnosed much better with the knowledge that 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.600 we've developed. Lisa, good question. I think it's a little 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:17.920 bit of both. Um, we certainly are treating patients differently. Uh. 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:22.000 Originally we had a very low threshold for intibating patients 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:26.280 putting them in the ICU. UM. A lot of the 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:30.440 critical care specialists now watch patients UM who may be 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:34.960 sick with COVID uh not everyone UM as their blood 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:39.480 oxygen the so called saturation drops you know, into ninety 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.839 or even blow ninety if patients are comfortable. They're also 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.120 just observed closely. They're not put on breathing machines, and 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:50.320 there was a certain risk and morbidity associated with that. 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:54.000 There's also a much lower threshold to start steroids early. 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.560 We've learned about that UM you know, rimdescit here. There's 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.680 been a lot of you know, pros and cons, but uh, 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.520 we sort of refined kind of how those ill patients 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:08.400 are treated, including blood thinners. So I think our mortality 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.240 is going down, the total number of cases is going up, 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.200 and you're right. Part of that is that we're testing 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:18.120 more people much more frequently. So we're often getting people 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:22.080 with really mild cases. They may have nasal congestion, call 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.880 for cold, they get a little panicky, Oh my gosh, 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.840 my my nasal swab was positive. What should I do? 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:31.800 Unfortunately a year later, we don't have anything like camouflew 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:35.040 for them. Although there are a number of physicians it's 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:38.480 interesting that have reported on iver mactin and a couple 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:43.600 of other uh not to get to controversial medications that 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.719 may be very helpful. So that's worth looking into. But 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:51.800 I think that combination of UH of more patients being 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:56.400 managed at home UH and and less intubated is giving 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:01.320 us some better numbers. Whenever we talk to frontline workers 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.000 like you, I always want to get a sense of 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:06.560 how are your people doing? How are the people at 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:08.520 n y u Lango and Medical Center. It's one of 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:12.120 the region's largest. It's just a world class facility. But 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.240 how are the people doing in the e R and 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:16.640 in the in the wards that really have to deal 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:19.960 with this? You know. I think it's an amazing staff 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.400 and everyone is very positive and energetic. You know, we're 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.720 going on almost a year, and I think there is 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:29.880 a lot of fatigue from patients and staff. Um. You know, 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:35.000 patients I think are much Uh they're they're emotionally drained. UH. 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.520 They've been told to, you know, be very careful for 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:42.400 going on a year now. UH. They missed families often 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:46.320 family events are you know, where are not attended? And 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:48.680 so I think there's a real psychologic toll, and I 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.960 think that's true to some degree. You know, there's mask fatigue. 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:54.920 I mean literally every day when you're in the hospital 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:58.760 and in the private offices too. You put on goggles, 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.479 you put on an in ninety I've masked. That takes 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:03.560 a toll on everyone along the way. But I think 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.760 there's a positive, you know, attitude. The staff is great. 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:11.080 We started getting vaccines this week for frontline workers. I'm 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:14.880 getting my vaccine Monday. So I think we are seeing 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.320 some light at the end of the tunnel. UM and hopefully, 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.200 you know, we do think you get some immunity within 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.159 you know, a week or two, not complete immunity. That 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:30.039 um efficacy is really after two shots. The second shot 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:32.159 you know, in three to four weeks. Same for the 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:37.000 maderna vaccine that just got approved. So uh, you can't 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.640 be reckless, but I think people will feel a little 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:43.200 better psychologically. When will someone like myself be able to 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:47.200 get the vaccine, I think really within the next couple 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.440 of months. You know, we are doing the frontline healthcare workers. 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.640 It's really amazing. In December, UM, certainly in this area 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:58.800 north Well colleagues have already been getting their vaccines, mainly 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.520 hospital workers, and then that gets pushed out to the 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:05.200 private practices mant and that may take certainly another few weeks. 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:07.920 Same at n y U we've already been giving over 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.840 the last few days the you know, I see you staffer, 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.200 staff and so forth. Doctors and nurses have gotten it, 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:17.440 and then the practices over next week we'll start to 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.240 get that as well. Not mandatory, you know, they're not 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.320 making everyone take it, ironically, unlike the flu shot where 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.480 you have to take it in order to see patients. Uh, 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.120 it is voluntary, but I think most half is enthused. 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:31.480 All the people I know who have taken the vaccine, 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.000 minimal side effects, a little ache at the site, kind 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:37.200 of like the flu shot, low grade fiver, none of 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:40.600 the allergic reactions I've I've heard about that. We've seen 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:44.240 just a couple of sporadic cases. Um, you know outside 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:47.400 of this area. Uh. And I think for regular patients 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:49.680 and my patients like Julius are saying, hey, when can 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:53.200 I get it? Um. N y U does plan to 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.120 give it out to our our patients. Uh. You know 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.200 in the next couple of months, is more shipments come 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:01.520 in which VECs SAN we'll have to see Maderna was 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.320 just approved. Those are two shots J and J is 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:07.200 one shot which makes it all up more convenient. That 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.840 has yet to be approved. Uh, And then we think 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:14.880 the local pharmacy, CBS, Walgreens, etcetera. So you should be vaccinated. 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.200 I think within eight weeks hopefully, you know, we're getting 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.960 it out to elderly and nursing homes. And I really 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.880 think by next summer we will have a fairly normal 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:30.320 looking country. Maybe not economically due to the real damage 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.360 that's occurred, but in terms of behavior, I think people 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.240 will will get back to a pretty normal life by 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:38.959 you know, spring and early summer is my guestimate at 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.560 this point. Well, I have to say that was probably 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:48.240 the most self serving question that's ever been asked, being like, 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:52.600 this is our personal desire. Everyone is asking that question question, 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:57.640 that's right, So actually we don't really we can't say 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:01.600 yet you know you're alpha adic or you're a certain age, 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.160 you're going to get it. All of those details really 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.760 are going to be worked out, and I think, but 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.400 but the timeframe is somewhere. We think in the next 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:12.240 eight to ten weeks will be very likely. But you 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:14.320 know how that's going to be done. It's really a 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:19.240 massive vaccination. We haven't done this, uh, you know, in 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.360 a very long time, so this is really a little 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.760 bit of uncharted territory. The good news is, look, it's 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:28.120 not an emergency, and again most people who get this 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.440 are going to be fine. But we do certainly want 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:33.679 to get up to her immunity as soon as possible, 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:35.520 and and I think that will happen in the next 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.559 few months. Dr lust bede A. I've been reading some 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:43.760 some stories recently, some news stories that perhaps one dose 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.600 of the fiser and potentially the maderna might be enough 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:51.360 and that might allow certain people, or that might allow 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.000 a quicker rollout since you wouldn't have to bring use 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.280 another dose for the same patient. What is your thoughts 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.559 on that? What? What? What? What? Do you know? You know, 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.760 there's no questions. Some antibodies are formed after one dose. Again, 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:07.320 that m R and A gets in your cells, makes 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:11.480 that viral protein, that spike protein, which seems to be uh, 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.880 you know, the most antigenic. Your body then forms antibodies 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.720 to that over the course of you know, days, two weeks, 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.840 and then when the virus if you see the virus, 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.000 you already have antibodies to it, so it should make 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:29.679 it a much more um rapid response. Optimally, the data 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.760 so far really is those two shots, and many vaccines 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.720 are like that, shingles vaccine, pneumonia. You know, a number 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:39.760 of vaccines really require two shots to get an optimal 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:45.040 antibody response. It is my belief that the smart thing, 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.160 based on the data at this point would be to 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.240 get the two shots. I think most healthcare providers are 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:54.720 planning to get two shots um. But look, certainly people 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.880 will begin to be protected even after one shot. I 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:01.760 don't think we're going to have to fight over vaccine numbers. 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.439 We really have a number of vaccine makers that over 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.920 the next few weeks and months are going to becoming available, 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:10.840 So I don't think we have to worry about rationing 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:15.360 um vaccine at this point. But I do think we 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.480 need to focus on the most vulnerable, you know, population 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:22.120 within the elderly and so forth. Dr inlus Better, thank 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.400 you so much once again for joining us. We always 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.520 appreciate your perspective and your knowledge, uh and the way 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.000 you can kind of get across some of this difficult 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:33.520 science here. Dr inlus Better, Clinical socio Professor of medicine, 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:35.960 at the n y U Lango Medical Center joining us 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:37.880 on the phone from New York City, and that was 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.760 that eight week numbers is something that jumped out of me. Encouraging, right, 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:43.439 and it would be kind of exciting to get it 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:45.360 pretty soon and then get on a plane and go 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.280 on vacation. Not that that's where my mind is right now, 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:54.400 but my god, palm trees. So I mean, the scientists 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.480 have just done in a outstanding job. Now it's up 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:58.439 to the supply chain, folks. I guess that's way I'm 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.319 looking at. One of the clearest signs of the economic 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.760 harm being done to America in general, but certainly in 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.480 the Greater New York area, is the empty storefront and 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.959 that is obviously reflective of businesses that have gone out 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:13.120 of business, and that's obviously challenging for those businesses and 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.959 challenging for the landlords for those buildings in which those 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.880 businesses reside in. Bloomberg Business Week has a great article 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:21.800 on that. Joel Lubber, editor for Bloomberg Business Week, joins 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.800 us here from remote access from Brooklyn. Devin Leonard, projects, 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.040 an investigations reporter for Bloomberg Business Week, also joins us 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.400 on the phone from New York City and Joel, this 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:35.520 is a big story, the retail story and the landlord 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:37.520 and the real estate story all rolled into one in 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:42.040 New York. Yeah, it really focuses on on Midtown Manhattan, 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.720 and that also represents you know, midtown districts throughout the country, 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:50.160 if not world. And Devin's story really centers on on 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:55.400 a fascinating character, Aby Rosen, who in the commercial real 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:59.080 estate world is actually a really big name. The reason 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.480 that he's especially relevant to New York right now is 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.520 that he's actually in the process of of doing a 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:08.800 really extensive renovation of the Chrysler Building. And of all 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:10.800 the things that you could be doing in the middle 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.920 of a pandemic, you know, doing a you know, gikantic 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:20.280 renovation of iconic building that um commercial tenants are probably 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:24.720 looking at but maybe not um biting on right now, 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.839 is probably not one of them. Um. And that was 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:30.760 why we wanted to talk to him, because you know, 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.640 this has serious implications for the economy as well as 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:39.040 cities right like New York is is really in the 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:43.000 jaws of something right now, and somebody like Abe can 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.480 kind of illuminate, you know, what it's like to be 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.640 a developer in all of this. So, so, Devin, what 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:51.040 did you learn from talking with him? Oh? Well, all 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.360 kinds of things. But but I think the biggest thing 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.400 was just, you know, getting him to take me up 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.160 to the Chrysler building because it was fascinating to see 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.760 what he's gonna do. You know, it's his hist you know, 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:05.400 two hundred you know, two million dollar plan to to 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.600 to renovate this sort of historic building. But there's there 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:10.920 was nobody there. You know, there was I mean, the 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:12.880 you know, the lobby was empty, you know there you know, 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:15.120 his publicist was commenting, I couldn't believe it was like 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.640 a Sunday morning and meanwhile, it's ago Wednesday afternoon and 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:21.440 about you know, five o'clock and we ran into one 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.040 tenant and he was leaving, and it was it was 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.840 just you know, it was just it was it was 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.160 just it was kind of a amazing me. I was, 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:31.560 you know, I was just there at my taper quarter on, 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.120 but I was just like, this is it. This is 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.840 the opening of the story, because you know, I don't 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:37.720 know any other way to to you know, to describe 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.720 to you know, describe what's going on right now. So Devin, 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.800 I was struck by this sort of trying to seem 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:48.760 optimistic on the front and then underneath having true anxiety. 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.400 And when we were first talking about this idea that 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:54.600 Aby would have a really good view on this, well, 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.920 he wants to also portray things in a certain way. 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.360 And one of the best parts of the story was 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:02.200 him how going with this guy and saying, hey, if 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.280 you leave, trust me. The line to take the space 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.880 we pretty long, and the guy says, I hope so, 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.200 and then and then Aby says, don't leave. Pay the 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:14.920 high rent. Come on. How much fear is there, Devin, Well, 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.480 I think it depends who you are, you know. I 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:19.920 think there's there's there's a certain amount of you know, 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:22.760 degree of fear for all these guys. I mean even 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:24.720 you know, you know they're they're really big names. And 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:28.320 that's why you saw a lot of them calling tenants, uh, 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:30.280 you know, in the falls in the fall and saying, hey, 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.040 you gotta bring you gotta bring your people back, because 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.080 they're worried that the longer, the longer people stay out, 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:37.800 the more people are going to get used to working 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.840 at home, you know, the less demand there's there's gonna be, 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.400 you know, for you know, for their space and things 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.760 like that, so so so so the longer Longerest goes 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.000 on and just sort of you know, potentially the values 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.920 the values their buildings. You know. On the other hand, 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:54.920 you know people I guess I'll gree you new of 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:56.760 you know one Vander, but you know, the newest the 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:58.680 newest guy script in the mid time, people like you 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:00.440 know in aby Rose, and they're they're a much better 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:04.480 position that than than people with you know, class B buildings, 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:06.520 you know intendants, So they're going out of business. But 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.880 even so, you know, you know, imagine if you are, 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:13.400 you know, you just put a new skyscraper and you're 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.480 trying to market it in the middle of this. I mean, 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.920 you'd be anxious to actually devin one of the things. 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:20.560 Let's just stay in the Crystler building here for a second, 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:22.720 because one of the most interesting things I learned about 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.120 the Crysler building is that while he owns the building, 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:28.280 he doesn't actually own the land the building is built on, 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:32.240 and those payments are actually only going to go up. 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.000 Um talk to us about that guy, em because also 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:39.280 who he has to pay is an interesting side story too. Yeah, 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:41.720 I mean, it's it's not a totally on you know, 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.360 uncommon thing in in New York real estate. For I 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.440 guess you you buy an effect you know, a building 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:50.680 or basically buy a leasehold or a long term leasehold 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.920 in the building. But then you have to pay you 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.640 you know, you know, you the code unquipe building owner. 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:57.160 You have to pay rent to somebody who owns the 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.280 ground underneath. And in this case, uh, you know, wasn't 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.920 it you know, in his partner Signal group from Austria, 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:06.680 they have to pay thirty two million dollars a year 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.639 to coop reunion. Uh you know, you know, you know, 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.560 you know a college that that's basically they got into 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.880 financial trouble a couple of years ago. They started charging tuition. 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:19.640 You know, they they've been found, they were founded, they've 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.399 been founded. Uh you know, you know in the nineteenth century, 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.240 you know, to offer free free education to you know, 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.080 working class kids. Well they're trying to get back to 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.040 to charge to not charging tuition. They're counting on that money. 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:32.840 They're kind of that thirty two million dollars a year 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:34.680 from the Chrysler building and it goes up to forty 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:36.960 one in a couple of years. So that's a big 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.359 nut to cover every year, and that's sort of a 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.600 big challenge for Abe. Devin. Can we also just talk 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:44.359 about some of the singers in the story because he 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.359 had he had some stuff to say. Um, let's start 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:52.120 with the Blasia. Yeah, well that's why. That's why he's 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:54.640 he's so great, Uh, you know, such such a great 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.439 you know, lens to to look at this all through. Well, 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.360 he's It's interesting because because in September, you know, more 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.120 than a hundred and sixty business leaders wrote a letter 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.800 basically criticizing the Blasio start of pleading with him to 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.639 do something about you know, rising crime and trash on 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.440 the streets and things like that. Well, Rosen didn't sign 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:15.560 didn't sign the letter because he's friends with the Blasio. 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:17.920 He talks to him a lot and talks about city policies. 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:22.320 But so basically, but he usually disappointed whether he said, 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.240 this is what I tell the Blasio, and I tell 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.720 I tell him I'm disappointed with what he's that are 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.120 not done with school reopening and basically he said de Blasio. 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.480 So he sits around and says, I maybe you know 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:33.840 what can I do? Mean? But I want to do 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:35.800 it's negative and you know, I can't make a decision, 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:40.520 and Rosen said he's done, he's checked out. Wow, So 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:44.120 I mean, is the expectation real quickly? Do you think 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.840 that a thinks things are going to get better, come 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.160 back to normal, New York come back? Well, I think 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.159 he thinks long term they will, and I think I 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.760 think I think he thinks that that next year doesn't 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.359 be a new mayor and that you know, you know, 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:01.480 that should be an improvement right there. But he was 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.439 also talking about, you know, Joe Biden is gonna win 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:06.200 and he's going to get all this money for for 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.200 New York. And we now know well, you know the 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.280 at the Senate stands fpublic publican had excuse me, that's 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.080 that may not happen. So so you have that there's uncertainty, 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:17.960 but do the next mayor is and and then you 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:20.840 have you know, the the you know, budget deficis and 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:22.840 things like that. So you know, if you know this, 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.160 I think everybody thinks New York will come back. Depressions 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:28.080 when when? When? Exactly right? Joel Weber, thank you so 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:30.240 much for joining us and bring us this story. Editor 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:33.680 for Bloomberg Business Week on the remote from Brooklyn and 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.879 Devin fantastic reporting on this story. We really appreciate it. 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.600 Really rich story, products, projects and investigations. Reporter for Bloomberg 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.280 Business Week on the phone from New York City. Uh. 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.760 Devin's story is featured in the new issue of Business 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.560 Week magazine, available on a newsstands and at Bloomberg dot com. 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.480 And for those of you listening in New York, d 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.480 C in San Francisco and watching on YouTube, Bloomberg Business 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.520 Week continues. If you're listening on Bloomberg one oh six 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:02.359 one in Boston based eight Business is next and Lesa, 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.960 this is that New York real estate issue. Um, when 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:06.600 you think about all that new construction that was gone 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:08.840 up over the last four or five six years, you've 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.160 gotta wonder how that's gonna play out going forward. You're 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:16.720 listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser on Bloomberg Radio. 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.480 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Paul Sqweene alongside Lisa Brahmins. 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:23.600 We were sitting in for Carol Masser today and the 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:25.879 news of the day, as it has been for the 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:29.320 last several weeks, is, uh, what's going on in Washington 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.480 in terms of fiscal stimulus that doesn't look right now 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.680 that the congressmen are working well with each other in 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:38.680 their sandbox, Let's get the latest. We do that with 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.240 Laura Litvan, congressional reporter for Bloomberg News. She joins us 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:44.560 on the phone from Washington and d C. Laura, there 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:47.520 seems to be a snag every other day. Just when 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:49.840 you think some momentum might be building for some type 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:53.680 of even limited stimulus, politics seems to get in the way. 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:57.320 What's the latest. Well, I do think there ultimately will 0:20:57.359 --> 0:20:59.919 be a deal. But um John Thune, who has been 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.840 umber two Republican leaders, just told reporters that this could 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.399