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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm not come to step I'll Never Tell You're production

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Speaker 2: by Heart Radio and welcome to another classic. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if people still do this, but I remember when

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Speaker 2: I was a kid, it was a big summer reading

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Speaker 2: like you wanted your summer reading.

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Speaker 3: List type thing.

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Speaker 2: So I wanted to bring back this book club The

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Speaker 2: Pretty One, because it really stuck with me when we

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Speaker 2: read it, and also July is a disability Pride months.

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Speaker 2: But I find myself thinking about this book a lot,

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Speaker 2: and it's just it's really delightful. It's a really good

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Speaker 2: It's a really good book. So I recommend it if

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Speaker 2: you didn't read it after that episode, if you somehow

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Speaker 2: missed that one, if you're looking for something to add

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Speaker 2: to your summer book reading list, and please write in

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Speaker 2: and tell me if that's still a thing, suggests this one,

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Speaker 2: so please enjoy. Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and

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Speaker 2: welcome to stefan Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. It's

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Speaker 2: time for another book club, and today we're discussing Kia

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Speaker 2: Brown's The Pretty One on life, pop culture, disability, and

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Speaker 2: other reasons to fall in love with me. Keith Brown

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Speaker 2: is a disability activist and is also behind the viral

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Speaker 2: hashtag disabled and Cute. The book is a series of

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Speaker 2: essays on various topics, ranging from chairs to jealousy to ponytails,

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Speaker 2: to music, to friendships to love, all through the lens

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Speaker 2: of a black woman with a disability. And she's very

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Speaker 2: very open about her anxiety, depression, disordered, eating, suicidal thoughts

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Speaker 2: and that being said, because that's kind of a laundry

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Speaker 2: list of like upsetting topics at the.

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Speaker 3: End that I put in there, But it is immediately delightful.

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Speaker 2: I was drawn in from like the forward. Oh, this

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Speaker 2: sounds like a really fun person who's just right and

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Speaker 2: interesting and lovely and delightful. She opens up about her

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Speaker 2: love of pop culture, of music and TV and books.

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Speaker 2: That's something that returns throughout, which is also something that

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Speaker 2: we can relate to. The whole book is brimming with

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Speaker 2: pop culture references, some of which we'll be talking about later. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's often very infectiously joyous. This book definitely does not

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Speaker 2: shy away from difficult topics at all. But I just

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Speaker 2: found myself just kind of feeling this bubbling happiness a

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Speaker 2: lot while I was reading it.

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Speaker 1: Right, I just love her honesty and all of it,

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Speaker 1: as well as the fact that she does do a

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Speaker 1: lot of the pop culture references that I know very well,

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Speaker 1: Like she immediately talked about Cinderella, Brandy's Jella, and I

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Speaker 1: was so excited. I'm like, yes, I get what you're

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Speaker 1: coming from. This is the as it should be. And

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Speaker 1: I absolutely feel like, yes, these are the reasons she lists,

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Speaker 1: and just her personality alone that comes off of the

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Speaker 1: book reasons to fall in love with her, And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: can we be friends? I want to be your friend,

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Speaker 1: but it's okay because you got lots of friends. But

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Speaker 1: just go ahead and start off with a quote from

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Speaker 1: the book. I never thought anyone would want to hear

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Speaker 1: what I had to say until I started telling stories

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Speaker 1: and talking about the things and people that matter to me.

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Speaker 1: The truth is this, I've always felt average, plain and wrong.

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Speaker 1: But there's nothing average, playing or wrong about me. And

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Speaker 1: it took me only half my life so far to

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Speaker 1: figure that out. I wrote an entire book and you

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Speaker 1: are giving up to read it. How cool?

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Speaker 2: Is that?

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Speaker 1: So cool? Sometimes it is beautiful to prove yourself wrong.

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Speaker 1: Oh love that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that captures so much of what this book

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Speaker 2: is and I do legitimately feel like that is beautiful.

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Speaker 2: And I think a lot of as especially anybody from

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Speaker 2: any type of marginalized community, can relate to that feeling

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Speaker 2: of like I don't have anything interesting to say, or I'm.

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Speaker 3: Just average, or I'm just plain, or what have you.

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Speaker 3: And when you unlearn.

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Speaker 2: That and start to see the good things in you,

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Speaker 2: which is a really difficult work and can be exhausting,

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Speaker 2: I think that's really powerful, and that is at the

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Speaker 2: heart of a lot of this book, and speaking of

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Speaker 2: like when it comes to themes, one of the main

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Speaker 2: ones is this theme of self acceptance and Kia Brown

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Speaker 2: finding this self acceptance the road, walks along the way,

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Speaker 2: the obstacles, and then the beauty of it, like all

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Speaker 2: the things she's discovered about herself that she loves. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's really it's nice too. It's refreshing as

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Speaker 2: someone who's been thinking a lot, and I bet a

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Speaker 2: lot of us have.

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Speaker 3: My negative self talk is off the chain.

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Speaker 2: Like sometimes I shocked that I would even think that

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Speaker 2: about myself.

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Speaker 1: WHOA right?

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Speaker 2: And I know for a while growing up, and we've

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Speaker 2: talked about this in past book clubs. Actually for whenning

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Speaker 2: a lot of what we would hold up as laudable

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Speaker 2: or this is a good trait is like selflessness or

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Speaker 2: being humble and all these things. I thought it was

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Speaker 2: really refreshing to hear someone be like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: I love this about myself.

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Speaker 3: This is great about myself. Right. There was no part

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Speaker 3: of me that was like, she's bragging. I wish she

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Speaker 3: was top. It was just like nice.

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Speaker 1: It was nice and it was genuine. I think it's

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Speaker 1: one of those things that's rare that you hear so

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Speaker 1: many people trying to convince themselves yes, that's how they feel,

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Speaker 1: and over to the point that it's overcompensating to this

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Speaker 1: was weird, this is not I'm not sure I truly

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Speaker 1: believe this. And she's gotten to a point which most

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Speaker 1: people never get to and being able to really be

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Speaker 1: genuinely and say this is what I'm proud of and

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Speaker 1: this is who I am, and it's still I'm still

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Speaker 1: got a lot to learn, but this is what I

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Speaker 1: do know that I love about myself. And that's a

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Speaker 1: beautiful refreshing thing to see, as well as a place

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Speaker 1: where for the longest time she feared herself and she

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Speaker 1: even talks about it in aspects of different people's perspective,

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Speaker 1: as in, like she's talking about her sister, learning that

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Speaker 1: for herself as well, And I found that really nice

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Speaker 1: to see, like she does spread that beyond because, as

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about later, her relationship with our

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Speaker 1: sister is complicated. Yeah, but beautiful and not so uncommon.

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Speaker 1: I found that very interesting as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so here's another quote.

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Speaker 2: My point is that I do all these things in

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Speaker 2: a disabled body, not because I am brave or bold,

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Speaker 2: but because I like doing them and I would love

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Speaker 2: doing them in anybody.

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Speaker 3: I adapt to the world because I have to do

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Speaker 3: so in order to live.

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Speaker 2: My disability is to reebral palsy, and it affects the

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Speaker 2: right side of my body, effectively altering my motor skills

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Speaker 2: and reaction time, as well as the strength of my

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Speaker 2: bones on that side. I don't do things in spite

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Speaker 2: of anything, except for maybe the people who told me

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Speaker 2: I'd be nothing. And no, one don't mind being an

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Speaker 2: inspiration if it is for a valid reason, such as

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Speaker 2: admiring how many slices of pizza I ate, an essay

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Speaker 2: or an article I wrote, my clothing choices, or how

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Speaker 2: quickly I can learn the lyrics to a song as

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Speaker 2: long as the inspiration doesn't come with pity or self

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Speaker 2: congratulatory pats on the back.

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Speaker 3: I am all for it.

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Speaker 2: Let my love of cheesecake inspire you the way it

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Speaker 2: will one day inspire a nation.

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Speaker 1: Look, car Lipsick game is on point. I see her

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Speaker 1: on Twitter whenever she posts the pictures. I'm like, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that color is amazing. How did you find this color

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Speaker 1: and give me it?

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Speaker 3: Yes? And I think this, all of this was so.

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Speaker 2: Well written because we're going to talk about in a minute,

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Speaker 2: ableism and how that's impacted like all of us, but

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Speaker 2: in this case Kia Brown and having people kind of

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Speaker 2: using you for inspiration porn right, And I feel like

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Speaker 2: that is something that we see a lot in entertainment.

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Speaker 1: And we see it a lot more for philanthropy. They

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Speaker 1: want to say they're giving, and so they're videotaping themselves

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Speaker 1: giving money to the homeown, They're videotaping themselves doing these

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Speaker 1: things that it's to me, the most irksome thing that

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Speaker 1: I think I've seen in a long time. And really

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Speaker 1: having people going and God, bless you, you did such

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Speaker 1: a great thing. You're such an amazing person for recognizing this,

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Speaker 1: and it's kind of gross to that, Yeah, you are

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Speaker 1: absolutely dismissing that other person as I miss a dog

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Speaker 1: needing to be rescued. Like there's this whole level of

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Speaker 1: inhumane tactics that get mistaken for philanthropy, and I don't

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Speaker 1: quite get it. It makes me really uncomfortable. Again, maybe

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Speaker 1: it's just been in the world where people who are

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Speaker 1: going through things like this often don't realize that is

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Speaker 1: seen as a negative thing. So kind of that same

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Speaker 1: route of like this has been my life. Are you

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Speaker 1: pitying me? This is weird as well as to them

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Speaker 1: it is a barrier, but it's not a barrier something

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Speaker 1: that's just the part of who they are. And why

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Speaker 1: are you commenting on it, and why are you feeling

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Speaker 1: sorry for me? And or why are you berating me

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Speaker 1: for it? It's kind of just again like I don't

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Speaker 1: quite get it, but I mean she doesn't talk about

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Speaker 1: that level, but it's that level of like that pity.

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Speaker 1: Same thing with like the healing and the regular which

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Speaker 1: I know we're going to talk about more, and the

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Speaker 1: religious aspect of it all. It's really like unfortunate that

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Speaker 1: that's one more added thing that whether if you truly

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Speaker 1: believe they're hurdles so that people are having to do

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Speaker 1: that you do not have to. That's amazing. Why are

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Speaker 1: you making it more difficult by bringing this onslaught of

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Speaker 1: randomness and attention that they don't necessarily want nor need.

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Speaker 2: I know, people feel really comfortable approaching others about especially

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Speaker 2: in this case like disability, but also I mean we've

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Speaker 2: talked about before withd weight like people. Yeah, I feel

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Speaker 2: like they can just come up and.

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Speaker 3: Give people advice or right, just like you wouldn't do.

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Speaker 1: They say they need to be saved and that they

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Speaker 1: are doing something that's going to be heroic, and you're

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Speaker 1: kind of just like, that's not my whole concept of

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Speaker 1: white savior thing. And this is kind of this is

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Speaker 1: not necessarily about race at all, but in general just

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Speaker 1: that of overall, I have to rescue them, but they

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Speaker 1: don't think they need to be rescued. So what are

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Speaker 1: you doing? What is it's called if you're doing it

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Speaker 1: to gratify your own conscience? Yeah, and or your own ego? Right,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I really am glad to say she actually

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Speaker 1: addresses that in such a great way. But moving on

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Speaker 1: to the different quote, my disability is not a thing

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Speaker 1: to see past, but instead a thing, take knowledge and

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Speaker 1: except before able bodied people and I continue existing at

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Speaker 1: the same time in this world. I have both physical

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Speaker 1: and invisible disabilities, and I refuse to be ashamed of

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Speaker 1: them because they are beautiful and their uniqueness and their

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Speaker 1: familiarity their mind. But they also belong to a world

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Speaker 1: of others and that makes them worthy of my appreciation

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Speaker 1: and acceptance. And yeah, I think she does a great

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Speaker 1: job in talking about both of those things because she

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Speaker 1: also wants to acknowledge invisible disability, which has been a

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Speaker 1: thing for a long time and not recognized enough, to

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Speaker 1: the point that we've seen people harass people for parking

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Speaker 1: in handicaps blocks because they don't see a physical disability

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Speaker 1: and you're like, Oh, you don't know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Calm down, this is not about you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And you can see past episode Eves did on

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Speaker 2: Spinty before female first she came out and talked about

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Speaker 2: invisible disabilities.

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Speaker 3: It was great and it was really eye opening for

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Speaker 3: me and I was like, oh, wait, I have whoa

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Speaker 3: because Dad, we don't talk about it enough. And I

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Speaker 3: think this is another thing that we do.

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Speaker 1: I have.

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Speaker 2: I guess I won't speak for a lot of people,

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Speaker 2: but I have internalized from media. I've consumed a lot

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Speaker 2: of like feeling ashamed of your body if it's not

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Speaker 2: if it doesn't work in the quote normal way, in whatever.

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Speaker 3: Way that is. And it's only recently.

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Speaker 2: And I remember I told you, like, I have these

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Speaker 2: kind of runners bumps on my feet and I used

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Speaker 2: to hate them and I thought they were so ugly,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, you know what, that's a part of me,

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Speaker 2: and it is something that I earned or like, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, it's not the same as what she's talking

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Speaker 2: about exactly, but kind of taking those things where you

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Speaker 2: people might perceive them one way, but learning to appreciate

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Speaker 2: them and they are a piece of what makes you

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Speaker 2: you and what makes you unique. So she also writes

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Speaker 2: this quote, I love I am a black woman with

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Speaker 2: cerebral PALSI who loves herself, and most days that feels

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Speaker 2: like a revolutionary act. It took a lot of work

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Speaker 2: to get to this place, a fountain of tears, grief

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Speaker 2: and loss, but I'm here and is beautiful. And I

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Speaker 2: want to include that one because I think we've talked

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Speaker 2: about that before, where Bridget used the phrase once, I'd

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Speaker 2: never heard anyone use it, but like radical self love

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Speaker 2: and like we were talking about, it can be so

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Speaker 2: difficult to love yourself, especially outside of like the white

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Speaker 2: cis male, when they's just like factors, all these intersecting

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Speaker 2: factors against you, against you, and heavy quotes in society

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Speaker 2: of like society doesn't seem to love you right or

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Speaker 2: value you for whatever reason, and that can be really

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Speaker 2: difficult to do that yourself in the face of that.

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Speaker 2: So I just really again, I really appreciated that, and

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 3: Think that it's hard but beautiful. You can yep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she goes on to right, I refuse to be

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Speaker 2: a reminder of someone's worst case scenario. Again, if you

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Speaker 2: need me to be a reminder, I will be a

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Speaker 2: reminder that things will get better. I will be a

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Speaker 2: reminder that people like me exist and thrive, and that

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Speaker 2: we aren't going anywhere long. Gun are the days of

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Speaker 2: silence and complacency. I will see and be seen. I

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Speaker 2: no longer care about the comfort of those who would

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Speaker 2: rather be quiet or wait my turn for proper and

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Speaker 2: positive representation in our culture and mainstream media. Disabled people

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Speaker 2: are at once invisible and a burden. And yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think she explains that and writes about that in her

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Speaker 2: experience with people feeling uncomfortable and feeling like like maybe

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Speaker 2: that's the reason they come up and give you on

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Speaker 2: solicited advice or whoever.

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Speaker 3: It is, like.

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Speaker 2: Their comfort is more important than you just being existing

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Speaker 2: and being left alone, which is something that we do see.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time kind of the yeah, being

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Speaker 2: invisible in a society that where you still fight for

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Speaker 2: access and ada. And there were a lot of things

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Speaker 2: she wrote about that I kind of were eye opening

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Speaker 2: for me of like, wow, I really do take that

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Speaker 2: for granted, like doing my hair like in a ponytail,

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Speaker 2: or not having to worry so much about a chair

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Speaker 2: situation or things like that. I just love the way

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Speaker 2: she wrote about them, but it can be a good

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Speaker 2: way to describe it, especially in what I've seen in

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Speaker 2: media of like the invisible and a burden right.

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Speaker 1: Which is not great, which I actually had been a

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Speaker 1: thing of controversy because recently an article was written in

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Speaker 1: the perspective of the caregiver and about them not being paid.

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Speaker 1: And although the article I think was implying that it

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Speaker 1: needed help and more assistance and we should think about

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Speaker 1: the caregivers as being professional and paying them as such,

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Speaker 1: but it came off really ablest and dismissing the disabled

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Speaker 1: partner and being like, hey, you're really talking about us

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Speaker 1: as if we're burdens, as if we're not existing, You're

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Speaker 1: acting as we're infants. And it was really like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is really bad and something needs to change, because

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Speaker 1: this is someone who thought she was helping but instead

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Speaker 1: just came on with more ablest tone. And again, this

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Speaker 1: is kind of that whole level of like, this is

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Speaker 1: the worst case scenario. This is where you're telling me

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Speaker 1: I'm a burden and I've already felt like that my

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Speaker 1: entire life. Thank you for once again again invalidating my

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Speaker 1: existence when I have fought hard to get to disappoint.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I feel like there was so much like

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Speaker 1: oh God, please stop doing this. We have to do

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Speaker 1: better as advocates and allies. We have to do better

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Speaker 1: in keeping ourselves accountable and understanding the language that pity

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Speaker 1: language is damaging in every damn way. And again, this

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Speaker 1: whole heroism thing that I don't quite understand. I can't

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Speaker 1: let go of it, and I'll probably especially when we

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Speaker 1: talk about religion, can't get past this whole level of

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Speaker 1: like this is my philanthropy. Pat me on the back. Look,

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Speaker 1: I'm caring for someone who is disabled, aren't I the

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Speaker 1: bigger person? You're kind of like, no, what is wrong

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Speaker 1: with you? This is gross, Like, don't do it. If

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Speaker 1: this is your attitude, just please don't. I have a

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Speaker 1: feeling that the individuals who are under your care would

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Speaker 1: rather you be here because you love them and don't

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Speaker 1: see them but as a burden than trying to create

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Speaker 1: a narrative as if you were the hero.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like using other people to make yourself feel better.

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Speaker 1: It's a weird white Knight thing that assists. Yeah, but again,

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Speaker 1: like this kind of reminded me of that. I like

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Speaker 1: this is what she's talking about and seeing as a burden,

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Speaker 1: Like we need to change. But yeah, as this was written,

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Speaker 1: this is a couple of years ago, and I really

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Speaker 1: hate that we're still here, Like I think we finally

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just because we are recognizing it because of

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Speaker 1: what we do, but there are so many who continue

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Speaker 1: to say the same. And by the way, some of

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Speaker 1: the biggest advocates for disability for those of who are

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Speaker 1: disabled are disabled people, Like they are the biggest and

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Speaker 1: the loudest voices we should be listening, but have been

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Speaker 1: doing the work to begin with. So let's not forget that. Yes, okay, yes,

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Speaker 1: done with rant.

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Speaker 3: Oh I don't know about that, because.

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Speaker 2: We're moving into some discussion around ableism, some more discussion

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Speaker 2: around ableism, because you know, as I said, self acceptance

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Speaker 2: is a lot of the heart of this book.

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Speaker 3: But the flip.

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Speaker 2: Side of that is the years of self hatred and

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Speaker 2: all of the obstacles that were in the way for

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Speaker 2: Kea Brown to arrive at this point. And it did

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Speaker 2: take her several several years and a lot of hard work,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, a big part of that was able as

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Speaker 2: some of it internalized and she talked about in her family.

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Speaker 2: I think she did a really good job talking about

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Speaker 2: the pros and cons of this. But in her family

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Speaker 2: they never really brought up her disability.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't really a thing. I wasn't really discussed.

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Speaker 2: And when she was made fun of by a kid

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Speaker 2: from school at a pretty young age, that was like

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Speaker 2: her first time of thinking, oh, there's something heavy quotes wrong,

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Speaker 2: are different about me right, and that people are making

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Speaker 2: fun of it. And I mean, it wasn't funny, but

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Speaker 2: I feel like we all do this, where like she

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Speaker 2: remembers that kid's name, right.

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Speaker 1: I thought the same, Yeah, And she was like.

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Speaker 3: He probably never you know, doesn't know my name, maybe

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Speaker 3: never thinks about it.

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Speaker 2: Maybe he's a great person now, but like, this event

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Speaker 2: was huge for me and I feel like I have

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Speaker 2: kids like that from by fast to where I'm like.

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Speaker 3: Right, I can't forget your name.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, so and so you did, and it is

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Speaker 1: it was a kind of fun shade like she also

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Speaker 1: recognizes he was a child, perhaps he's changed, but she's

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Speaker 1: not gonna let go of the fact that you are

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Speaker 1: the reason that I started doubting myself and not understanding

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Speaker 1: how it was different until you brought that point out. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She did talk about the family dynamic. And I can

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Speaker 1: understand to a certain degree of the insulation of being

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Speaker 1: told you fit in, you fit in, you fit in

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Speaker 1: your part of us, and it being true because that's

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Speaker 1: what I felt, and then going outside of that world

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Speaker 1: realizing no, this is not true, this is not true.

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Speaker 1: I'm very much in other and these strangers have pointed

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Speaker 1: it out to me a lot, and there's nothing I

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Speaker 1: can deny about that. And I wasn't prepared, but at

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Speaker 1: the same time, I was loved because I was being

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Speaker 1: so protected that it is that variability that is both

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Speaker 1: good and bad. And of course if I was a parent,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't know, I wouldn't know what to do, and

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Speaker 1: I would want the same level of protection in that too,

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Speaker 1: But there is that pros and cons of it all

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Speaker 1: meeting insulated. Of course, you know, she's able to say

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Speaker 1: I had loving family who was there to do that

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Speaker 1: for me. But the problem is when I came out

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Speaker 1: of that and was faced with that, I wasn't prepared

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Speaker 1: to handle that at that point in time or knew

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Speaker 1: how to handle that completely. And yeah, there was a

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Speaker 1: whole level again, school is cruel and for those who

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Speaker 1: are marginalized even more so. And she definitely talks about

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Speaker 1: the privilege she did have because she had a supportive family,

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Speaker 1: but the fact that she did not have that white privilege,

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Speaker 1: she did not have the ablest privilege like all of

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Speaker 1: those things. She didn't have the gender privilege. There are

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Speaker 1: those things that was a shock and you have to

399
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 1: work through and no one can really do it for you.

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Speaker 1: And that protection at least gives her, and it did

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Speaker 1: for myself some level of ground to be like, but

402
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Speaker 1: that's not the truth that can't be right because of this,

403
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's the whole thing for sure. And she

404
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Speaker 1: also writes it's something that helped me because you and

405
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Speaker 1: I have been struggling with this for a minute on

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Speaker 1: this show in general. But she writes, I am a

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Speaker 1: black disabled woman. I am not handy, capable, differently abled,

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00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 1: special needs, or any other iteration of disabled that says

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Speaker 1: anything but the word disabled. When I say as much,

410
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Speaker 1: I'm speaking for myself and myself alone. My thoughts on

411
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: the matter are not the case for every person with

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Speaker 1: disabilities because we are not monolithic. Some people like or

413
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: use the terms above, but I do not. What I'm

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Speaker 1: about to say might make some of you uncomfortable, but

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00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 1: discomfort is imperative here. Discomfort has made a lot of

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Speaker 1: things better in the long run. When I stopped caring

417
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Speaker 1: about the comfort of abled body people with regard to

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Speaker 1: language it used about my disability, I felt free for

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Speaker 1: the first time in my life. You see, these other

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00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: synonyms for disability were created because the word disabled often

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00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 1: makes able bodied people more uncomfortable than it makes those

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Speaker 1: of us with disabilities. And I think that was huge

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Speaker 1: because you and I have gone back and forth any Okay,

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Speaker 1: we want to highlight and bring out, especially with our

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Speaker 1: women around the world who are strong advocates and fighters,

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Speaker 1: and recognize these people who have done so many amazing

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Speaker 1: things in making change, whether it's in the un whether

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00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 1: it's in the US, whether it's like just in cultural altogether.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's so important that we do talk

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Speaker 1: about these things. But as able to body people, we

431
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Speaker 1: are very very wary of the connotations of language. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and again she says this for herself, so disabled for

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Speaker 1: her is fine, and we will absolutely recognize anyone who

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Speaker 1: says otherwise and says, please say this instead, then we

435
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 1: would definitely recognize it. But it is you have to

436
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: remember language is important and why it is. And again

437
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: you have to also figure out for yourself why you

438
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 1: are uncomfortable, and if you are the ally and not

439
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: the disabled individual, don't just rely on yourself listen. We

440
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: have to listen. That's the other part to that. And

441
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: I also love that she does talk about that for

442
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: her when she hears people saying things like handy capable,

443
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: it's typically those who are caretakers who say that, right,

444
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 1: and not the individuals, because again they are uncomfortable or

445
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: they feel like it's a failure to say otherwise. So

446
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: we have to recognize we need to talk to the source,

447
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: research the source, make sure we understand they are coming

448
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: from such ugh language in itself is so important.

449
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 2: Yes, I love that to you because we have been

450
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 2: discussing that, and we never want to not talk about

451
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: something because we're too afraid to use the incorrect language.

452
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 2: But we do want to get it right and we

453
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: want to like not.

454
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 3: Be offensive and be up to date.

455
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 2: But I just really appreciated this, And I remember back

456
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: when Eves came on and we did that episode, she

457
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 2: was talking about, Yeah, there's you know, debate in the

458
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: community about which term is a better term or which

459
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 2: way is better, and that debate is healthy and ongoing. Right, Yeah,

460
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 2: so that's good to know. I did like reading this.

461
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 2: It does remind me of what we were talking about

462
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 2: earlier of yeah, kind of the inspiration porn aspects, and

463
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 2: we see this a lot where it is usually not

464
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 2: the the community in question using the term unless it's

465
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 2: somebody trying to make money. But that's I'm thinking more

466
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 2: widely of Like when we had Amandage, she was talking

467
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 2: about like entrepreneur. You know, these kind of words that

468
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 2: are usually, in this case you used to sell something, right.

469
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 2: I feel like there's also an aspect of that discomfort

470
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: and trying to for the person using that term.

471
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 3: And these are generalizations.

472
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: Can't speak for everybody who uses handy capable, for instance,

473
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: but it feels like a lot of times it is

474
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 2: someone who is has their own It's not internalized, but

475
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: I mean no, like they feel they do think something

476
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 2: is wrong, or like you are the worst case scenario

477
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: and they're trying to like build you up. They think

478
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 2: you're doing they're doing you a favor by using this terminology. Yeah,

479
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: I feel like we see similar conversations happening in a

480
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 2: lot of communities. The language is very, very very important.

481
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, I was really happy that that was in

482
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 2: there too. Here's another quote. What I didn't know earlier,

483
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: but I'm grateful that I know now is that my

484
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 2: cerebral quality is an integral part of who I am

485
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 2: and how I navigate the world. And my refusal to

486
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: acknowledge this, I was denying the world and myself a

487
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 2: glimpse of who I really am. All that time waste

488
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: hiding away when I could have embraced my girl CP

489
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: and the word disabled and found unapologetic happiness sooner. I

490
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 2: was embarrassed a disability, of being disabled and of other

491
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: disabled people. My thought processes were that if able bodied

492
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 2: people discussed my disability, then they would see me as inferior.

493
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 2: And I already saw myself as inferior. I didn't want

494
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: them to as well. I would rather have been ignored

495
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 2: than pitied. But I was never ignored, not then or now.

496
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 2: The only thing that has changed is the way I

497
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 2: feel about myself. Pity was my greatest fear and my

498
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: biggest foe, and now I can confidently say that I

499
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 2: do not care about it because I know how I

500
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 2: feel about myself, and that accompasses a lot in that

501
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 2: one quote, but also in the book and the struggle

502
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 2: with especially when she was younger, of feeling this self

503
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 2: hatred and shame around it and just like wishing she

504
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 2: didn't have cerebral palsy. And that's something else that she

505
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 2: does that I love. But she talks about cerebral palsy

506
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 2: like it's a character, like a person, girl CP, and

507
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: she's open about like, you know, some days she's a

508
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 2: real bitch, and I hater, like there's no reason for

509
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 2: why this is happening. I can't figure it out, but

510
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: you know, other times it's like, yeah, this is part.

511
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 3: Of me and it's made me who I am.

512
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 2: And I think that's that was really nice too and

513
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: really refreshing because it's it's like a relationship. It's like,

514
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 2: you know, it changes some days. You got your writing downs,

515
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 2: your ebbs and flows, and I think we can say

516
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 2: that from most things.

517
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: And I questioned too, Like for myself, there's many things

518
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: that I don't like, and growing up in all white communities,

519
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: really hated being an Asian, I really hated being brown,

520
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: really hate my eyes, and even to this day, I

521
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: don't necessarily love my identity, my ethnicity. Part of that

522
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: is because I don't know it. Part of that is

523
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: trying to discover that. But I think I'm in a

524
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: healthier place because I don't necessarily love it, but I

525
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: accept it and I accept my differences and just encompassing

526
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: that in my life. So there's definitely a whole process

527
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: us in acceptance and then moving on to love. And

528
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: what that looks like for me is different, obviously, and

529
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: this is a whole different level because obviously she has

530
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: a lot of pain that I don't literal physical pain

531
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: that she has to deal with and face every day.

532
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: But it is an interesting concept of what it is

533
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: to fall in love with something that is a difference

534
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: than what is deemed as normal, which whatever that is. Yeah,

535
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: And I've been kind of harping about it already and

536
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: I'm ready to talk about it now. Is that whole

537
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: idea of like unsmillicited advice and this whole that whole

538
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: thing like of cures, whether it's prayer, yeah, and or

539
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: marathons trying to re money and not that we don't

540
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: necessarily think cures are bad. I definitely don't, but I

541
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: think there's a whole level of when you talk about cures,

542
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: thinking about something as an enemy, and so those people

543
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: who are dealing with that in their life feeling that

544
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: that means they are the enemy. So that's a whole

545
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: lot of things. But here's another quote. A recent study

546
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: found that a disabled person is killed once a week

547
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: by a family member or other caregivers. There are fifty

548
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: two weeks in a year, and a disabled human is

549
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: murdered at least once every week, Yet there's hardly any

550
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: coverage or outrage about it. These stories are often framed

551
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: in two ways. The killers just couldn't take it anymore,

552
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: finding the care taking too much for them to deal with,

553
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: or they were just trying to set the disabled person

554
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: free because their faith told them that their loved ones

555
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: could be free of disability and death. And yeah, we

556
00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: have constantly seen this whole narrow and don't get me wrong,

557
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: I think for those who again I kind of mentioned

558
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: that story about the fact that caregivers were being highlighted

559
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: as heroes and seeing as the disabled member of the

560
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: family member being the burden. But this whole level that

561
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: it is a death sentence in itself, is so tragic

562
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: in so many ways, and I can't and we don't

563
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: talk about this enough. We don't talk about this. We

564
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: have talked about that, the fact that the statistics for

565
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: abuse in those and the disabled communities are much higher,

566
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: poverty level death rates, sexual abuse, sexual violence is higher

567
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: than the abled community, and we really have to keep

568
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: mentioning this conversation because nobody protects them and this absolutely

569
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: is a horror. But the fact that there's no law

570
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: that goes beyond the regular I guess, yeah statements, and

571
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: that we already know it is hard to prove there's

572
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: so many ways like this. This type of crimes against

573
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: humanities are really hard to prove and it is a

574
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: horrifying thing that we are not talking more of it.

575
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, also, this weird narrative because it's in books,

576
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: because it's in movies that the caretakers who do these

577
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: things are heroes and had to choose because they're suffering.

578
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: And it's like, no, if it's not the disabled person's

579
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: choice to, you know, say that they don't want you

580
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: to revive them or something. Yeah, that's not that's not

581
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: that's not what you're doing.

582
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we've been talking a lot about entertainment, as

583
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: we said, that is key throughout this book. We're gonna

584
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: talk about it more in a little bit. But that's

585
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: something I don't think we've ever We've touched on, like

586
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: tangentially a lot, but I don't think we've ever directly discussed.

587
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 2: But that's as you know, we love horror. I love

588
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: horror movies, but that's a big problem in horror movies.

589
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: I feel like, is someone with a disability, whether it's

590
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: invisible or not, is in one way or the other

591
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: the villain or something is wrong with them, or in

592
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: some cases this kind of thing happens where somebody will

593
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 2: kill the disabled person to start off the plot, which is.

594
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 3: Not great either.

595
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 2: That's like what we talk about when we're talking about

596
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 2: fringing of women or the barrier gage trope.

597
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 3: It's the same kind of thing.

598
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, a lot of the when she was talking

599
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 2: about entertainment, there was a whole chapter kind of devoted

600
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 2: to representation in entertainment. That's one of the things that

601
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 2: kept coming back to me is like all of these

602
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: examples I.

603
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 3: Had of she was she was good.

604
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: She pointed out a lot of times it's like sad,

605
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: usually white men hating themselves and wanting to be cured,

606
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: right or yeah, the villain. But I have seen this.

607
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 2: I've seen this plot line as well for sure.

608
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,959
Speaker 1: Right. And she also talks about that there's not enough

609
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: representation within any any I don't know if I've seen one. Yeah,

610
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: I think the only closest one that I have is

611
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: that in Glee, not the guy Kevin, I think that's

612
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: his name. I forgot the character's name. He's in a wheelchair,

613
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: but he's not actually disabled because he has a whole

614
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: scene dancing. But they bring on a love interest who

615
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: is and she is actually disabled. But even then and

616
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: her character was fun because she got to be sassy

617
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: and she got to be pretty much the thing, and

618
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: she was. She was killing it with her style. But

619
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: the whole level was like people pairing the two of

620
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: them together since they are both in wheelchairs.

621
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: Oh, and it's kind of like.

622
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: Okay, see you're doing it again, even though you brought

623
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: finally brought someone on who can be a representative because

624
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 1: they actually are in a wheelchair and are disabled, you're

625
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: pairing him up with the one and that's the only

626
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: plot line you're giving her ry as where you have

627
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: that other dude, Arnie I think it's his name. He

628
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: is pretty much until towards the end of it, where

629
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: he actually accepts it because of his parents, is trying

630
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: to find a cure, and that's the whole point. That's

631
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: the whole plot point, to the point that one of

632
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: his girlfriends wishes it for Christmas and because he doesn't

633
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: get it, she doesn't believe in Santa Claus like, it's

634
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: just why that is very able us and we follow

635
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: along with it thinking, oh, of course, this is what

636
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: being disabled looks like, being sad all the time, and

637
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: it's not it's not that case, and shame on us

638
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: for thinking that.

639
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

640
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: Well, and she talks about that too, and it's like

641
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: one of the other kind of frequent tropes is like

642
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 2: the sad teenage movie where one of them has some

643
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 2: illness or disability that will kill them in the end,

644
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 2: or they decide that they rather die than go on, right.

645
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 3: Which yeah, is I know exactly what she's talking about.

646
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: It's very common troupe. And that's one of the reasons

647
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 2: she wrote this book. And she was like, you know,

648
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 2: we can have other things in tragedy. It's not just stragedy.

649
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: And that's sort of we talked about that vaguely in

650
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 2: like a Happy Hour forever ago, where I was saying,

651
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 2: you know, if that's the only representation you have, and

652
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 2: you know those sure, tragedy and sadness exists in like

653
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 2: any community, but if that's all you see, then that's

654
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: not accurate. That's not great representation. So she goes on,

655
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 2: there's another quote. Disabled people do not need strangers or

656
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: people we do not know telling us how we should

657
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 2: try to fix our change our bodies, when we never

658
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: said we had a problem with our bodies in the

659
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: first place.

660
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 3: We are not problems.

661
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 2: We are people who deserve the same rights to life, liberty,

662
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 2: and the pursuit of happiness as everyone else. The fight

663
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 2: for change is not ours alone. We need to end

664
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 2: the constant cure narratives ingrained and championed within our culture.

665
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 2: We need to end the just kidding you were never

666
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: sick narratives. The death means freedom from disability narratives and

667
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: the idea that if the body is not one hundred

668
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 2: percent able all of the time, it is to be

669
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 2: pitied and dismissed while simultaneously being molded into something and

670
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: never be which is great. There's so much in there

671
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 2: that she expounds upon and in the book, But.

672
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 3: Like she does, she points out which she shouldn't have to.

673
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, like you can have a disability for a

674
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 2: short time, like so if you like break a leg

675
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 2: or something, then suddenly that access will be very important

676
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 2: to you, right right, And then it's not exactly the

677
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 2: same thing.

678
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 3: But when my dad was dying.

679
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 2: I remember so many well meaning people, and I truly

680
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 2: believe they were well meaning, but it did make them uncomfortable.

681
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 3: They were talking to someone who's dying and in pain.

682
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 2: They would say things like, you know, basically kind of religious.

683
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 2: Usually just pray, you know, things will get better. If

684
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 2: you do good, you'll get better, and it would just

685
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: he would be so furious, like yeah, and he you know,

686
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 2: people would come up and be like I've read the

687
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 2: other day. If you go to Mexico and they have X,

688
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 2: Y and Z, there's this cure for cancer. I kind

689
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 2: of I get the knee jerk like impulse in this case.

690
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 2: But you're you're essentially like implying that this person who's.

691
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 3: Dying didn't look into those things.

692
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: Or either was just like you were the one that

693
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 2: had the answer, right and good luck with that.

694
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 1: This is the most infuriating and I'm not gonna lie.

695
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: One of the reasons I think I stopped being as

696
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: religious as I was that that narrative in itself implied

697
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: that God cared more for another than this one. So

698
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: if you were cured, that means Jesus really loved you.

699
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: If you're not cured, well that's Jesus's plan. That means

700
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: you're probably going to hell, right that think, which is

701
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: not all They would never say that, but that's the

702
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: implication to me, and I could not grasp that concept,

703
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: like do you really think you're that important. Yeah, that

704
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: somehow a deity of billions of people thought you were

705
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: special and therefore cured you. And not to dismiss those

706
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: who may have gone through something they feel like it

707
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: was miracle, wonderful, But the fact of the matter is

708
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: that narrative does imply a hierarchy of those who are

709
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: healed and those who are not, as well as those

710
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: who are chosen and those who are not. And that

711
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: woman who came up to her and said, I'm praying

712
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: for a cure for you. You, That's what I would said.

713
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: She was much nicer and apparently in shock, But in

714
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: my mind, I was like, how dare you come at

715
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: me implying that God doesn't love me if something doesn't happen.

716
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: How dare you, especially she who is a religious woman

717
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: and has finally, as she says in the book, come

718
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 1: to have one of the best relationships in a long

719
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: time in her religious beliefs, how dare you imply because

720
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: it's not your standard, that perhaps God doesn't love me.

721
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she was a kid when this happened, by

722
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 3: the way, Yeah.

723
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: She was a teenager. And I was like, that is

724
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: that alone for me would have been enough to turn

725
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,439
Speaker 1: around and spit on somebody like I think I would

726
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: have been ready, because this narrative is damaging in so

727
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 1: many ways, and you're damaging other people who truly needed

728
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: Jesus or truly needed a dea, it truly needed a

729
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: fate by implying if something doesn't happen, that something has

730
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: gone wrong and you have done wrong, and that is

731
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 1: probably obviously I feel very very strongly because I've seen

732
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: it way too much. I've seen it in this industry.

733
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: I've seen it in many industries where that is implied,

734
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: especially in the US for US, especially in the South,

735
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 1: where that is an implication of prayer, hills all and

736
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: then coming back with well, that's not God's plan to

737
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: all these things, and like you can't have one or

738
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: the other like that. Don't sit here and imply you

739
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: know God's plan by doing these things. Yeah, and then

740
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: tell me, oh, just playing that wasn't God's plan, so

741
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: you're wrong. No need to say it front. If you

742
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 1: want to pray for someone, that's just kindness, that's great,

743
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: Just do that, do that on your own. You don't

744
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: have to do this, because that again puts those kind

745
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: of connotations on someone else with expectations that may not

746
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: be met, and how you you have killclone's spirit because

747
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 1: of that. Again coming back to the fact that Kia

748
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: Brown seems like a woman of faith and believes that,

749
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: and it has come to a point that she loves herself,

750
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: and so I'm glad that she did not have that

751
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: for herselves who could have easily done so. But just

752
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,399
Speaker 1: as a reminder of what this is, this whole saviorism,

753
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: this whole level of things that you're like, you can't

754
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: You need to be careful. We all need to be

755
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: careful when implying that you think someone's in a bad

756
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: place because you feel like you could not handle it.

757
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: I hate this. I hate this narrative in every aspect,

758
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: just as someone who is a survivor of any type

759
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: of abuse or victimization in general, to come and be like,

760
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: I don't know how I could handle that situation. It's infuriating,

761
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: as if I deserved it or was built to handle it. Right,

762
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: don't say this, don't do this. This is out of bounds.

763
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 1: This is ugly. It's ugly. As you want to bless someone,

764
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: it's ugly. Don't do it. As again, you can tell

765
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: them very very very passionate about this, and of course

766
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,959
Speaker 1: I'm trying to rain myself in and saying other curse

767
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: words because I've gone through this way too many times,

768
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: I think, and obviously you have too, between all the

769
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: things that you grew up as a child and all

770
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: the things with your father, there's too much in that

771
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: that it's like you your good intentions, this is this

772
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: is the road leading to hell, Like this is that

773
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: part of it. And just because you may have one experience,

774
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 1: or just because you think you know of an experience

775
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: or you think you could undertanded experience, doesn't mean you

776
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: have the right to speak, especially to strangers, especially to strangers.

777
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it definitely clearly.

778
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 2: We could go into this in depth, maybe in a

779
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: future episode, but it definitely And for me, it feels

780
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 2: like it is implying that you, at some time or

781
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 2: the other, did something bad, did something to deserve it.

782
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 2: And in this case, yea, I'm thinking my own experiences.

783
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 2: But like said, there's a holier than now, Like no

784
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 2: pun intended, but like I'm better than you, and I'm

785
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: being the better, bigger person by imparting on you this

786
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 2: advice or these prayers or whatever because you failed somewhere

787
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 2: and that's what's happening with you, and that's the reason

788
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 2: it isn't happening with me. And we've talked about that

789
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 2: with like the human brain interprets reason where there's often

790
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 2: no reason. So just because something hasn't happened to you,

791
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that God was like the reason.

792
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, that's the whole different thing, right, and

793
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: we should talk about it in a whole different manner.

794
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 1: But when it comes back to this, when we're talking

795
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: about strangers implying these things and bringing in religion into it,

796
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: and or with cures, she mentioned the flash, I was

797
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: very appreciative of this because it is one of my

798
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: favorite shows, So thank you.

799
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 3: Yes, I thought she mentioned that.

800
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,240
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, here we go. But she also

801
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: talks about this whole cure all mentality and outside of

802
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: the pains that she goes through her embracing of who

803
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: she is and having the good days and the bad days,

804
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: and we all we all hit that, and of course

805
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: we all want things to be what we expected to

806
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: be better. We're like, oh, if we had this, this

807
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 1: would be better. If we did this, this would be better.

808
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 1: If this was here, this would be better. Which is

809
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: what she does in this alternate timeline. But it's that

810
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 1: narrative that we didn't realize anything was wrong until people

811
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: told us we were wrong, or people told us people

812
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: told her she should be sad, or people told her

813
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: she can't do this, and that's when she, for the

814
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 1: longest time, did not realize there was a difference until

815
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 1: that point in time, until she couldn't be the norm

816
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: by finding a seat because she's because they didn't think

817
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: about people outside of that, like this is the ablest

818
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: idea is this teaches those who aren't in that same

819
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 1: level or aren't able to do these things, you're not normal.

820
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: This is the normal. And had we not had these

821
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: narrow to begin with that you are a problem to

822
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 1: be fixed or someone is a problem to be fixed,

823
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: they would have never known, or we would have never known.

824
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: And then when we were face with that, it's not

825
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: so much there that we feel wrong. It's more so

826
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: that the narrative tells us we're wrong.

827
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, And she brings up the coverage around after when

828
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 2: Stephen Hawking died and we had an episode a while

829
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 2: back when Bridget was on with Annie Sigara, who's another

830
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 2: activist in the disabled community, and if you somehow miss

831
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 2: his coverage, a lot of it was like Stephen Hawking

832
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 2: being freed from his wheelchair and death. And Keia Brown writes, like,

833
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: that's what you took from everything he accomplished, Like what

834
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 2: about his life was not like that.

835
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,479
Speaker 3: Was the thing? That was what the narrative we're gonna

836
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 3: run with? Okay, then.

837
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is like, dude, he's a genius. Well

838
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: by standard, he didn't do everything great, but he accomplished

839
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: an amazing thing. What I don't think that his biggest

840
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: fault was having a wheelchair, by the way, either, just

841
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: f why I but yeah, And continuing with that, she

842
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: talks about the importance of accessibility and she writes the

843
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,879
Speaker 1: ADA Education and Reform Act, which passed in the US

844
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: House of Representative as HR six twenty twenty eighteen, is

845
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: designed to roll back the rights of disabled people, which

846
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: require that people with disabilities who wish to report access

847
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: barriers and buildings in public spaces become essentially code experts,

848
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: give notice to the appropriate owners, and then wait six

849
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: months or longer for the business or government agencies to

850
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: make substantial progress. And that doesn't even guarantee that the

851
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: issues in question will be fixed and that's, oh my god, infuriating,

852
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: Like there's so many things that happened in thatministration, like

853
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: this wasn't even necessary, it wasn't why.

854
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's ridiculous. And then we wanted to talk

855
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,879
Speaker 2: about Hugh's relationship with her twin sister Leah and kind

856
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 2: of this jealousy around it when they were growing up

857
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 2: and resenting Leah's body when she would compare it to

858
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 2: her own.

859
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: Right, and she writes, how dare she walk around beautiful

860
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: and quote normal with her standard and normal working legs

861
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 1: and arms, while I walked around like a freak. And

862
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: the older Leah and I got the deeper my anger

863
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 1: took root and grew. I'd pick fights with Leah, call

864
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: her name, scratch her body by using my stronger left arm,

865
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,919
Speaker 1: and bite down before she could block me. I did

866
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: this in a desperate attempt to make her as ugly

867
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,800
Speaker 1: as I thought I was. I became very desperate around

868
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: the time boys started to find her attractive and asked

869
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 1: me to put in a good word with her. I

870
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: believe that the attention she received made me uglier. And yeah,

871
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 1: she talks about specific incidents about getting her hopes up

872
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: and realizing they were asking about Leah, and it made

873
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 1: me so sad because of course she comes back and

874
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 1: talks about the fact that she had pictured it bigger

875
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: than what her sister pictured it, but that she was

876
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: the one who damaged their relationship and like she was

877
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: the mingirl essentially of this relationship. And it made me like, oh.

878
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because they're twins.

879
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it is one of those things where I

880
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 2: was reading it and it reminded me of what we

881
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 2: talked about recently in like Jenifer's Body, where these like

882
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 2: oppressive like white supremacy patriarchal systems end up turning you know,

883
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: people marginalized people against other.

884
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 3: Marginalized people, or just people in your life.

885
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 2: I'm glad that their relationship is well on the mend

886
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: and healing and they're very close now, but it is

887
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: sad when you think about those things in your life

888
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 2: where you're like I was lashing out at the wrong

889
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,280
Speaker 2: right person. And she has this whole chapter on jealousy,

890
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 2: looking into it and why it happens and why it

891
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 2: happened in this case, and it's it is very relatable,

892
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:18,760
Speaker 2: but it is very sad because like you were saying,

893
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 2: you know, it's one of those things that she kind

894
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 2: of learned this hatred of herself. She didn't have it,

895
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 2: and then she learned it, and then that separated her

896
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 2: even further from like a relationship in her life that

897
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 2: had been healthy and nice and would have hopefully been

898
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: that way throughout when she could.

899
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 3: Have used it instead, you know, flashed out. And I

900
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 3: think we've all been there where we've taken things.

901
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 2: Out that we are feeling it ourselves essentially, but we've

902
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,439
Speaker 2: taken it out on other people, right. So she also

903
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 2: writes I often took Leah's lack of concern or care

904
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 2: about boys's personal attack. Leo was single because she wanted

905
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,240
Speaker 2: to be, while I felt I had no other choice.

906
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,879
Speaker 2: This lack of choice made me angry. And I want

907
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: to include this because there was a lot. I was

908
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 2: recently on Holly's Star Wars show, Holly Frive, SOPHI miscastry

909
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 2: class he's been on the show. I was recently on

910
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 2: her Star Wars show Full of Sith you can check

911
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 2: it out, and in the middle of it, she was

912
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 2: kind of like, you know what, I feel like I

913
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 2: can tell a lot about people based on their experience

914
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 2: with Star Wars, and I can tell you've got a

915
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 2: lot of family drama. And I was like, since she

916
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 2: said something so deep, but I did.

917
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:28,879
Speaker 3: I really related to that because me and my little

918
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 3: brother had.

919
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,720
Speaker 2: A huge fight about this very thing where he thought

920
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 2: that me not being interested in dating was essentially hurting

921
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 2: or impacting him, and.

922
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 3: I never saw it that way.

923
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 2: But she also writes about her relationship with her brother

924
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 2: and how stressful batsman, and that reminded me of my

925
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 2: relationship with my brother. It's just a very complicated relationship

926
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:53,280
Speaker 2: that we have, and I often struggle with even talking

927
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 2: about it because I'm like, very protective of him but

928
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 2: have been very hurt by him at the same time.

929
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 2: So it's like I always feel like I have to

930
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 2: give people context to everything. I'm like before you change.

931
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,879
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just that was a very personal note

932
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 2: for me, or I felt like I really connected with that.

933
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 2: I also really connected where she kept she mentioned Mary

934
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 2: Kate and Ashley.

935
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought about us well, and this one, I'm like,

936
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 1: man she said in all our Buttons.

937
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 2: Yeah she is, she said Cinderella with Brandy and I

938
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 2: was like Samttha.

939
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: In the Flash and now Mary Kate and Ashley for

940
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: you that level. Yeah, I thought about it.

941
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

942
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 2: She also talked about Tia and Tamara when she was

943
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 2: thinking about these and like, this is the twin relationship

944
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,840
Speaker 2: she thought she should have was these twins she was watching.

945
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 2: But did want to include this quote because we have

946
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 2: been talking about entertaining a lot. The idea that disability

947
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 2: is punishment is reflected back to us in TV and movies,

948
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 2: thus influencing policy and law. The fear of expressing a

949
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 2: part of who you are, for fear of backlash is

950
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 2: a familiar concept to most marginalized people. The cycle can

951
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 2: be broken once we take the step of ending the

952
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 2: stigma so that people feel comfortable disclosing and telling worthwhile

953
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 2: stories of disability, which can change cultural ideas and policies

954
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,879
Speaker 2: that negatively affect the disability community. And we've talked about

955
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 2: that before, that what people see on TV. There have

956
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 2: been studies that show it does impact policy. It impacts

957
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 2: the laws that we make or don't make, or what

958
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 2: we put money behind, which we could have a whole

959
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 2: commentary on the cons of that, but it's true. So

960
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 2: this was when she was talking about the importance of

961
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 2: good representation.

962
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, we can talk about that with the

963
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:38,720
Speaker 1: pandemic and what's happening right now as the delta variant

964
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: is happening, and the fact that they are dismissing any

965
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 1: of the disabled community in high risk communities by sending

966
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: everybody back to school without the option of doing virtual

967
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,919
Speaker 1: And again, no one's really talking about it as much

968
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: as a disabled community or those who are impacted by it.

969
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: And that's the unfortunate part is because people are not

970
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,439
Speaker 1: willing to talk about it if it's not personal to them.

971
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: So about their children. Sure, children are annoyed by masks,

972
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: don't make them wear masks. Oh, children need to be

973
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: back in school because I don't want them here. To

974
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: be fair, that's not most people. I'm not dismissing the

975
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: fact that having children at home is hard, I know,

976
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: and that those who do not have access. But what

977
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,919
Speaker 1: I'm saying is those are the larger conversations than those

978
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 1: who of the disabled community. So we have to recognize that.

979
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, just saying for sure, a lot of putting the

980
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 3: comfort first.

981
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 2: That's what it's me about the masks is I'm like,

982
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 2: you know what, I get that maybe it's more comfortable

983
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 2: for you, but in the end, it's about comfort, right,

984
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 2: you can do it.

985
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 3: It's gonna be fine.

986
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,800
Speaker 1: That's not in need. Comfortable is not necessarily need based.

987
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, used to getting what you want.

988
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 1: Same thing with a critical race theory, but hey.

989
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 3: Yep, exactly ur indeed.

990
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 2: And then I did want to include this very briefly

991
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 2: before we close out to you. She has this whole

992
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 2: thing about like love and how much she wants to

993
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 2: find love, her love of brom comms. That also made

994
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 2: me think of you. I love how she has like

995
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: Hallmark one where she was like, oh, this is my relationship,

996
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,879
Speaker 2: like just picking up on those things, and she writes

997
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 2: about like never having been in love and the fear

998
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 2: of never finding love, of never being in love, of

999
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 2: being worthy of love, and how she wants those things.

1000
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 2: And I was just really moved by it because it's

1001
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 2: a very personal thing to be open about with. But

1002
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 2: it's something I also connected with because I have caught

1003
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,879
Speaker 2: myself wanting those things even though I identify as a.

1004
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 3: Sexual or gray sexual.

1005
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 2: And I think it's because I do see it and

1006
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 2: it looks so wonderful and entertainment. But it was just

1007
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 2: kind of nice to read about, like, oh, yeah, this

1008
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 2: is sort of what I'm talking about.

1009
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 3: It's like, it's right, it sounds lovely.

1010
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: I think we all yearned for that. And she talks

1011
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 1: about this with our music to like her her moods

1012
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 1: and what she felt through music, whether it was through

1013
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: Paramore or the old school stuff. She also talks about

1014
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 1: Demi Levado and their song Skyscaper, which actually I loved

1015
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 1: that song and it is probably one of the most

1016
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: tear jernking like open raw songs for me as well.

1017
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,919
Speaker 1: So when Kia was talking about it, I was like, Yeah,

1018
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: they do an amazing job in this level because I

1019
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:20,760
Speaker 1: think Demi Levado is coming through the first rehab stant

1020
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: just letting those go and just feeling so fragile, but

1021
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,760
Speaker 1: at the same time breaking through all of that, because

1022
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: there is there's something about this level of songs that

1023
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: they've got the right chorse, they got the right lyrics,

1024
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: and I know, you know, oh yeah with your soundtracks

1025
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: that I do too, and like feeling that depth and

1026
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: that level, but that emotion of just wanting to be

1027
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: wanted and that that is a level that goes beyond

1028
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: just rationale, Like rationally we know that this is not

1029
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: maybe not realistic, this is not what happens, this is

1030
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: not the real world, but that need, that favorite pitch

1031
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 1: of like wanting to feel the songs in such a

1032
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: depth of emotion and we can't whether it's feeling all

1033
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: of a sudden inspired or feeling so sad and broken

1034
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,760
Speaker 1: or so like empty and alone, which is that emo phase,

1035
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 1: but finding that love, that being told you're that girl,

1036
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: that special one that you know you're the beautiful, most

1037
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,479
Speaker 1: beautiful woman when the worst state of being and never

1038
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:29,919
Speaker 1: really actually hearing that. To actually find that it is rare,

1039
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 1: and that is that one, like holy girl. I think

1040
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: for a lot of young girls to wish to be

1041
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: the boy band fantasy, yes you know, and I'm like, yeah, yeah,

1042
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 1: I feel that. I hear that. And when you feel

1043
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 1: like there's something wrong with you, when there's feeling like

1044
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: these are the reasons why they can't love me, it's

1045
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 1: this whole level like trying to go past that and

1046
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: how do I get to this? I will say I

1047
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:01,799
Speaker 1: also appreciated her stories, which makes me disgusted about like

1048
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: trying to online date and all that because I don't

1049
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: necessarily have the same experience, but I definitely had that

1050
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: Oh you're Asian. I'm sorry. I have a fetish for Asians,

1051
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: so let me go ahead and talk to you and

1052
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: see if you'll do these things for me. And I'm like,

1053
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 1: hell nah nah nah nah nah mmmmmm mmm.

1054
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1055
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 2: I think it was just it was also really nice

1056
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 2: to hear someone being so open and hopeful about it.

1057
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, at a older age, and she's not older at all,

1058
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 3: but I feel like a.

1059
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: Lot of time, so how dare you?

1060
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, I think she's young me. Okay, she's

1061
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 2: younger than me, and I'm so young.

1062
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 3: I did hear a podcasts the other day where I

1063
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 3: was like, I'm twenty nine. I'm like, what, Oh my god,

1064
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 3: I've been doing this well.

1065
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: Into my world it gets worse.

1066
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 2: No, no, but I think there's that reaches a certain

1067
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 2: age where you kind of close up about that stuff, yeah,

1068
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 2: or you might feel ashamed about like you. I haven't

1069
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 2: found it yet. I think that's definitely changing for sure.

1070
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 2: But we've talked about I thought I was gonna be

1071
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 2: married by like twenty one and I have kids by

1072
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 2: twenty six or whatever, So I don't know. I just

1073
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 2: really appreciated that. And then I wanted to close on

1074
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 2: this quote, which I love. I like me so much

1075
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 2: that when I think about it, I giggle like I've

1076
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 2: got a crush. When I smile, it feels like the

1077
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 2: sun is filling up in my body so that when

1078
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 2: I move around the world I can light it up.

1079
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 2: I like me so much now that I know I

1080
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 2: don't need to be the best or the prettiest person

1081
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 2: anyone meets.

1082
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 3: I just need to be me, and that's enough.

1083
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 2: The world at largest still clinging to ablest and harmful

1084
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 2: ideas of disabled people. Still, I can't allow myself to

1085
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 2: let the opinions of a culture influence my whole view

1086
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 2: the way they did before. I have too much left

1087
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 2: to do, and I've worked too damn hard to get here.

1088
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 2: The rest of the world will catch up, whether it

1089
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 2: wants to or not, especially with the work that the

1090
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 2: disability community, and especially the women in our community, are

1091
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 2: doing to ensure that it is happening through hell or

1092
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 2: high water. Outside of my disability work, I want to

1093
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 2: write books that mean as much to me as Dessins

1094
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 2: and Morrison's do. I want my future books to be

1095
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 2: all light for someone and I love that.

1096
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 3: And this was a light for us. Yes, it was

1097
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 3: so lovely.

1098
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 2: Listeners, if you haven't read it, We highly highly recommend

1099
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 2: going to pick it up right now, Yes, right now,

1100
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:21,919
Speaker 2: and then listen to this again and make more sense.

1101
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 3: Come back, yes, come back always.

1102
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 2: And if you have any book suggestions for our next

1103
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 2: book club, you can email them to us. Our email

1104
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 2: is Stephandia mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can

1105
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 2: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on

1106
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 2: Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You Things.

1107
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 3: As always to our super producer, Christina, also the light

1108
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 3: of our lives.

1109
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 2: Yes, and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never

1110
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 2: Told You the projection of iHeartRadio.

1111
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, it's the iHeartRadio app

1112
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or where you listen to your favorite shows