WEBVTT - The Police 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.840 What you're about to hear in the following episode does 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:06.040 not implicate the Chicago police in the murder of Courtney. 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:13.320 Copeland previously on somebody, and so when they said that 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.880 he was combative, we were shocked with that information. We 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:19.440 never got their report about him that he was combative. 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:22.960 I know how he is, and I know he didn't 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:26.440 do anything to pose a threat. I remember him specifically 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:31.160 being handcuffed to the bed, and so we were like, Okay, 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.800 where's the police, we need these handcuffs all. My name 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:39.200 is Chaparral Wells. This is the story of my son, Courtney, 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.400 a young black man in a fancy car who wound 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:44.760 up with a bullet in his back in front of 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:49.159 a Chicago police station. It's the story of my search 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:58.600 for the truth. This is somebody. Everybody, these guys every day, 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:19.720 no bide He's not no. That's right. March four, one hour, 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:31.360 sixteen minutes and fifty three seconds. This is the last 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:36.160 time you hear Courtney alive, just moments after he's been shot. 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:41.440 It's difficult to understand, but I hear my baby saying 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:51.640 I've been shot. I've been shot. Chary. I felt as 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:56.400 a mom, like my baby he's hurt and I can't 0:01:56.440 --> 0:02:04.720 be there. When police gave me Courtney's phone back, I 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:08.040 went straight to his recent calls and there it was. 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:14.000 But it took a whole year between me learning that 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:18.880 this call existed and hearing it for myself. Did my 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:24.680 son down? What do you mean as you did Courtney 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:29.720 Copeland down? Now? What do you think? Absolutely so? Why 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:31.680 weren't you Why didn't you inform me the first time 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:35.600 we met. That was a recording of my conversation with police. 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.120 They never told me that they had nine on one 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.440 call on Courtney. I wanted to hear the last moments 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.720 of my son's life. I felt like as a mom, 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:52.360 I deserved that It had been over a year since 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:56.240 they had contacted me about my son's style. I felt 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.480 like my son had become a statistic, like he was 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:03.120 basicly put on the shelf. The day after he died, 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:06.200 and I was in a battle with the city to 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.360 get them to release any in all videos that they had. 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:17.160 I wanted somebody, anybody to hear me. Okay, Facebook, I'm 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.280 gonna try this again, Like I was saying, you know, 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:25.480 we are the average black family trying to fight against 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:33.760 a huge city and everywhere we turned, We're here the 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.560 doors getting slammed in our face. And I was like, 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:40.680 God just helped me to get to where I need 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:47.040 to be. I was reading through articles and I just 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:52.960 happened to come across article about Lakwan. Lakwan McDonald was 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.800 the biggest cover up that's the Chicago Police Department ever 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.080 had in its existence, far as far as I'm concerned. 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.560 Lakwan got shot sixteen times front and back, and he 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:06.000 was running away from police. He was seventeen years old, 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:19.200 a sixteen shots in a cover up. The police, the 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:24.640 city try to hide what happened to Lakwan until a 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.960 judge forced them to release that video. Now, the dash 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.520 camp video shows Van Dyke shooting and killing seventeen year 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:36.080 old Lakwan McDonald in two thousand fourteen. In the black community. 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.560 None of us were surprised to see this, but the 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.839 Lakwa McDonald case got the whole country talking about race 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:49.240 and the police for months. The only explanation offered for 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.040 while Lakwan McDonald died on that street was that an 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.279 officer had fired at him in self defense. That's Rachel 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:58.120 Maddow and the Kwon McDonald had been shot in the chest. 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.080 That was the public story about this case. The only 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.360 thing that interrupted that public trajectory is that some very 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.760 aggressive journalism happened in Chicago. I heard about this reporter 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:13.119 who blew open the case of Lakwa McDonald. Mr Calvin, 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:14.360 thank you very much for your time to that. I 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:16.320 appreciate you being here. It's good to be with you. 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.839 Um you've been chasing the information on this case for 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.440 so long. I decided I would reach out to that reporter, 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:27.159 Jamie Calvin, so I sent an email. I didn't even 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.159 know if anyone would actually read my note, but before 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.200 I knew it, I had someone from his organization on 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.000 the phone. So thank you for writing to us. No, 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.200 I've you know, been following or what you did with 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:43.839 La Kwan and uh, just trying to get someone to 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.640 listen to me because I'm like, it's just it just 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.000 doesn't add up. A few days later, I was sitting 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.480 down with Jamie. I brought all my papers with me, 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.800 my fouls, I mean, I had everything. I have such 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:01.240 strong impressions of that day, so I remember you're coming 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.480 and it's coming, and sitting right here at this table. 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:09.160 Your ability to find in that stack of paper without 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:13.159 file folders with tabs naming to find whatever document you 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.560 wanted to illustrate a points you were making, which I 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:18.880 think I still think of as a kind of card shark, 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:23.279 you know, virtuosity. But when I walked him through the case, 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:25.920 I didn't know at the end of the conversation how 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.760 it would go, what he would say, but I felt 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.240 that he was listening to me. I've had a lot 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:34.080 of these conversations in the course of my career, none 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:38.880 quite like this, because you've laid out the uh sequence 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:43.760 of events as you understood it, and identified the inconsistencies 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:48.000 and anomalies and just suspect things and the police account. 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.200 Jamie said that his journalism team will take the case. 0:06:53.040 --> 0:07:01.360 They call themselves the Invisible Institute. When I first went there, 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.840 I was like, this really is invisible because the way 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:09.159 it's set back into a very secluded area, you'll never 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:13.840 know it exists, like a little detective agency type of feeling. 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.960 He actually referred me to his partner, Alison Flowers. Good 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.520 to see you. How are you? Allison is a journalist 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.679 at the Invisible Institute. I saw your busy this weekend 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:28.080 moving your daughter into college. Right first, I just wanted 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.600 to check in and see how your mother's day was. 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.160 She's so sweet, but she's a hardball. She will get 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.040 the answers for you. How long were you there? Were 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.440 there for? And Allison, you're sitting next to me right now. 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.920 Let's see, we've known each other now for almost three years. 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.480 It's been a long road and we've been in touch 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:51.240 almost every single day. Yes, okay, Alison, I'm back. Okay, Hey, Chap, 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.040 I'm here with Jamie and Bill by the way, Bills 0:07:54.080 --> 0:08:00.480 with the Invisible Institute too. So person, how are you 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:04.360 feeling after the revelations. I remember when I first met you. 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:07.440 I think we were downstairs in the coffee shop, and 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.680 you were like very meticulous. You were taking notes, you 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.240 hit your list of questions, you hit Okay, hey, we're 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:16.480 gonna hit this, We're gonna do this, We're gonna do that. 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:19.880 At this point, I was like, hey, I love her, 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:26.000 you know. I remember you being very measured, but I 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:27.720 could also tell that you were in a lot of pain, 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.920 but it was almost sort of secondary to your drive. 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:33.880 When I first met you, you told me what you 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.920 believe happened to Courtney, that he died after an encounter 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.800 with police, and that this seemed like a traffic stop 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.880 gone wrong, and you had all this information that you've compiled, 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.800 the handcuffing, the fact that there was no blood in 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.320 the car, and the fact that they weren't releasing the 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:52.200 videos to you, and so you thought maybe Courtney was 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.800 shot somewhere else. There were just a lot of unanswered 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.040 questions at that time. So from here on out, Alison 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.640 is going to join me in this investigation. So one 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:03.760 of the first things we did was pull records for 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:07.000 the police officers who were outside the station with Courtney. 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.560 There are a lot of officers on the scene, but 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:14.199 there were two main players, Officer Andrew Block and Sergeant 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:18.840 Sean Ronan. When Courtney pulled up to the station, Officer 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:22.200 Block was the first person he saw. Block said Courtney 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.880 got out of his car and rushed over to him. 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:28.280 He told him, I've been shot, and then he collapsed 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.400 to playing down a granted centeral of donim and just 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:38.240 said he was shot. Okay, look at the ms okay 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:43.520 right away. Block called an ambulance immediately, which is protocol. 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.960 And when we dug into his history, we didn't see much. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:52.760 He's now a lieutenant, but then they're Sergeant Sean Ronan. Guys, 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.439 as soon as you can try and pinpoint the location, 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.520 we've got Rogan Glass at Felban and Long. It might 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:00.760 have happened over here, so we're just trying figure it out. 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.280 Ronan was the one running the show, and when we 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.720 checked out his history on the force, we found some 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.320 alarming stuff and he got a whole bunch of complaints 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:14.600 against him, thirty complaints that we've identified, more complaints than 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:20.320 eighty nine of other Chicago police officers. Ronan's been disciplined twice, 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.360 and that's pretty unusual, given that most of the time 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:28.079 in Chicago, complaints are dismissed in favor of police officers. 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.280 They are descriptions of him calling a black man a nigga, 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:35.480 a motherfucker, and a stupid ass gang bank and Ronan's 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:39.880 been accused of false arrest, planting evidence, slamming a man's 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.720 face into the concrete, and in one case, he and 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.199 some other officers were accused of throwing a man out 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:49.079 of window, tazing and beating him, and then refusing him 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:53.120 medical care. That case was settled, Ronan stayed on the force, 0:10:53.960 --> 0:11:02.400 and then there's this from the year after Courtney died. 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.120 It's a video of Ronan shooting at a man during 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:16.360 a traffic stop. Six times. Police put in reports that 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.240 the man pointed a gun at them. He survived, Oh 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:23.440 my god. And Ronan was involved in another shooting, but 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.240 for that one he was given one of Chicago Police's 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:30.880 top awards, the Superintendent's Medal of Valor. I should note 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:34.640 that most officers never fired their guns over their whole careers. 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.480 So the fact that Ronan has done this at least twice, 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:44.640 that's a big deal. When I was investigating Courtney's murder 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.600 on my own, the city of Chicago didn't pay me 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.800 any mind. But when the Invisible Institute came aboard, they 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:57.200 changed their tune. The Invisible Institute sent in a ton 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:00.200 of record requests, not just for the records of the 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.880 officers on the scene, but for police videos and the 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:07.600 recordings from the scanner. And this got the attention of 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:12.800 the detectives. Finally, did he say why he was calling? 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.959 Just out of the blue after Fritilla. Here I am 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.520 on the phone with one of them Visible Institute reporters, Sam. 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.600 He said, I noticed, you guys have this valid forward 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:26.160 your question. I said, it's you're right to know. I 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.560 told Sam that the detective asked me to come down 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.240 to the station. Are you gonna go? I'm trying to 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:40.320 figure out if I should go. A few days later, 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:44.320 I'm sitting down with those officers face to face. It's 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.400 been more than a year since our first and only meeting, 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:58.679 just after Courtney died, and I'm recording once again. When 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.960 I first heard Chapel's lease recordings, I was disturbed by 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.840 the way the officer spoke to her, a grieving mother. 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.920 We want to make sure there's context to everything, so 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:13.600 we're gonna let large, unedited chunks at this tape play out. 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.000 The first time I met police in that dingy old building, 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.800 I played alone because I needed their help. The second time, 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.040 I didn't come to play with them. I don't needed answers. 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.280 I needed to know what happened to myself. That's part 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.160 of your record. We sat across from each other from 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:35.520 the conference table, white board, vending machines, and fluorescent lights department. 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.600 I brought in my big case Foul, which had the 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:43.480 paramedics report that said my son had been handcuffed and 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:48.000 claimed he was violent and combative. This just starts me 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.920 greatly because of the fact that my son was handcuffed. 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:56.559 I'm like, okay, if he collapses, at what point he 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:01.160 was he arrived at the hospital and uh, handcuffed? There 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:08.520 was a police officer that also followed the amulance. And 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.120 this is what I'm upset because I'm like, how do 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:15.360 you guys not know that my son was handcuffed? They 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.880 kept questioning what I had uncovered? What when was he handcuffed? 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:22.360 If you're saying that he was handcuffed during the time, 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.960 we never said he was handcuffed. Man, Okay, what's that is? 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.400 I mean, that's a that's a a CPD document. Okay, 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:34.040 that's a CFD Okay, okay, So you're denying that he No, No, 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.600 I didn't say that. No, don't put police. Don't put 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.240 words in my mouth. I'm saying that that's that's that's 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.800 not a police department document. That's just that first. Yeah, 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.400 that's a Chicago part of the document to review it 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:55.320 and cofens. Okay, again, it says handcuffs. Clearly I've never know. Okays, No, 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.600 it's obviously touch what I never know the handcuffed my 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.200 baby as he was dying. Don't know where and they 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:05.560 acted like it was routine. We can see why the 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:10.400 handcuffs were necessary, or restraints, restraints whatever, however he was 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:15.520 restrainted wasps or folies or whatever. Devices specifically said, who's 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.680 telling you at the hospital that he was handcuffed? Oh? 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:23.000 The nurses? Everybody told me who because we need to 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.800 talk to specifically? UM, I gave them the E R 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.760 nurse's name, Clarissa Hawkins. She's the one who told me 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.000 that Courtney was handcuffed to the stretcher when he arrived 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.680 at the hospital. They should have been with him in 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:41.680 the ambulance. That's the policy completely Again, if you put 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:46.720 handcuffs on a patient, you would also then in turn 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:51.480 put that information into your file that said that this 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.280 person was handcuffs. I've never done that. Why not? Why 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.920 why wouldn't he under arrest? Who knows? You tell me 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:04.960 he was never? I don't know, but I'm telling you 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.120 I don't know. It's a lot of things that you 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.400 told me that have not panned out, such a one 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:17.560 in regards to his uh in regards to him well here, 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:19.840 I have no no, no, You're you're saying a lot 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.160 of things. Tell me why I'm gonna give you. Well, 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:27.840 I've been investigating in regards to this case. Okay, go ahead, Okay. 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.320 I felt angry. I felt like they were gas lighting me, 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:32.480 like they were just sitting here lying in my face, 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:34.720 even though the proof is right in front of me. 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.480 So again, at one point in time from him, what 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:40.840 does that have anything to do with a solving new 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:45.080 shot up? What does that have any Does that have 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:51.640 anything to do with a solving crime. No, what they're 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:55.040 saying is the fact that he was handcuffed had nothing 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.360 to do with solving his murder. It's not probitive evidence 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.800 to solving the crime of who shot your son, ma'am. Okay, 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.200 you want to do which is our end goal? Which 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:09.479 is our end goal? So what so what this tells you? 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:13.240 I'm I'm more than Tom. Well, you know what, I'm 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:17.480 just kind of this way, um, because back and forth, 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:37.000 back and forth, this could have gone on forever. I 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.040 was mad as hell when they told me that they 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.919 still had not even talked to the on same officers 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.360 after a year of investigating my son's murder. They had 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.400 their own reports and they just assumed what was written 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:54.280 was true, and they were growing tired of listening to 0:17:54.359 --> 0:18:00.720 me that's basically what you' that's what the officer. These 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:04.080 are all assumptions, These are not facts. Then they started 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.720 talking very sarcastic to me, flipping through their reports, saying 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.600 to each other, how many fouls you got there? It 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:14.480 appears you put some work into its working it. I'm 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.800 not denying that he didn't put any work. I'm just 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.520 trying to make him long borrow. That's my life, this 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.120 is my chat. They kept trying to tell me how 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:26.080 much work they put into the case, the time driving 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.399 around that neighborhood looking for video with me and trying 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:32.879 to find video evidence. But they missed up. I know 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.920 they did because I was talking to people that they 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.640 had never talked to. And if I could have talked 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:43.080 to the on SENE officers myself, I would have certainty 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.959 that this is not a possibility. So what you're telling 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:49.960 me is this, you believe I don't believe the police 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.440 targeted your son. I believe shot and killed him in 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:57.439 front of the police stage. No. I believe that not 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.800 enough has been done to solve courtneys murder. What would 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.399 you like? What would you like done that I haven't done. 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.879 I personally would have went back and reinterviewed everybody to 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:12.800 make sure that we They assume police officers tell the truth, 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.840 but I don't. Sergeant Mitchell, Yes, now they saw in 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.400 the history that no no, no, no, no, no, don't 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.480 even don't even no no, no no, no. What what I'm 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:27.440 saying to you is that this problem didn't just occur 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:32.199 with Courtney Copeland's case. The breakdown from the community. And 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:38.840 you know, I'm not not just just I am talking reality. 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:41.119 I'm here to talk to you until you begin to 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:47.399 meet to these white men or having none of my 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.640 experience as a black woman in Chicago, your department has 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:55.440 not saying this particular I'm just saying CPD in general 0:19:55.680 --> 0:20:03.440 has a history that has been tainted. I know it's unfair, absolutely, 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:07.119 especially to these two gentlemen in this room. Absolutely it is. 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.560 I'm saying, I know it's unfair, but that is just 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:13.760 bring it off because it's the reality that it's not 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.159 with these two guys, because I know him personally, noting 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.520 that they didn't think to my son, I take offense 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.200 to that. I really do, because your painting would have 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:24.560 broad brush. Man, It's not a broader brush when it's 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:31.920 everyday reality. Do you understand Okay, start to I'm not 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.480 you know what, do you understand that that's the reality 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.680 with black and brown people in Chicago? Not? And I'm 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.200 telling you not what else. I wanted them to understand 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.520 that this wasn't only my perspective. And if if I 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:48.160 haven't been clear on this, I apologize. Our goal, our 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:56.200 stated goal here is to find, arrest, charge, and convict 0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:01.560 the offenders who did this series. That's our state goal. Okay, 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:05.119 no variants, no nothing, no politics, no bullshit, no nothing. 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:07.520 And I'll tell you something else. Regardless of what you 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.320 may think of me because I'm white, I it doesn't 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.760 talking that, but I love you to think that. I really, 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:16.880 I really don't care because I've been a policeman long 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:20.119 enough where there's some people that just that this is 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:22.280 what is what they have a problem with. I want 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:24.240 to let you know, number one, I don't have a 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:26.520 problem with it. If that's the way you feel, that's 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:28.800 the way you feel about me, that's fine. I just know. 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.960 But I I just want to want everybody. I want 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.760 to let you know it still is you. You could 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:37.800 spit on the floor when you see me, it's still 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:41.280 not going to affect me from from from working, and 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:45.600 if I whether we never talk again or we become good, 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.520 it doesn't matter one way or another to me. If 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:52.560 something good comes that I'm able to pick up and 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:54.880 run with, I'm gonna I'm gonna run with it with 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:58.239 with your son's murder, And whether you yet thank me 0:21:58.320 --> 0:21:59.960 or tell me to get fucked at the end all 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:02.840 of this, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I'm definitely 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:05.520 gonna thank you because that's my Yeah, I want to know, why, 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:11.040 so do I. I? But no, okay, so do I. 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:14.280 But as far as this whole black, brown, green ship, 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:18.280 it doesn't. I said, you can't discount the history of 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:21.680 what happened. It was time ago. But before I left, 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.000 there was one more thing they wanted to be sure 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:26.400 to say to me. This also bothered me from her 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.679 conversation the other day, the fact that you're recording me 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:34.960 without my knowledge or consent. If you if you ask 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:38.280 me something, I'll answer you as truthful as I know, 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:43.760 but do not be surreptitiously recording me. It's all I'll 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:48.720 tell you. It's it's a crime. It's actually not illegal, 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:51.480 And I'm sure your attorney would tell you the same thing, 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:54.360 just like I can't turn this on and record you. 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:57.399 So I'm okay with be a reported Well no more, 0:22:57.520 --> 0:22:59.119 I know, but I have to let you know and 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:01.719 I'm not okay being recorded. So just so you know, 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:04.760 I don't nothing. I neither do I. But you're still 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:08.240 you do not have money to record me. It's illegal. 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:11.359 So just so you know, because I know you've been 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:14.960 recording me every conversation. You're recording me from the first 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:17.679 time of first day we Matt, why do you say that? 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:20.159 Because do I have a reason to record it? I 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:23.400 don't know. You eidently you think you do, because your 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.719 your whole focus on this thing is is something the 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:29.679 police did wrong. I just wanted to know what happened 0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:34.240 to my son, and to me, nothing was off the table. 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:38.160 What you're saying is he was calling nine one one 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:41.840 while he was on the phone while the police were 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:44.199 and then the police killed him. I don't know if 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:47.000 the police kid. I don't know. I don't they have 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.400 good luck with your good luck with your parallel investigation. 0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:53.639 I don't know good luck. I don't know good luck 0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:56.119 because you didn't get any answers that I don't have. 0:23:56.480 --> 0:23:59.280 What I'm saying that I am open to all scenarios, 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:04.360 so am I. By this time the supervising sergeant had 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:17.840 already walked out the room. Where you go, Okay, let's 0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:26.000 hit it. I needed to find someone who would tell 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:29.480 me the truth, someone who was right there outside the 0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:33.119 police station. I got the name of one of the 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:35.879 e m t s who cared for Courtney at the scene, 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:40.639 Daniel Cortez Allison, and I decided to knock on his 0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:47.520 front door. They probably think it's somebody electionary. Well, what 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:51.160 do you do? You want to write a Right as 0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:54.159 we were leaving, he opened the door. I had a 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:56.200 mic clip to my jacket, so that's why it sounds 0:24:56.240 --> 0:25:01.840 a little fuzzy. Oh hi, hi, the cortest. My name 0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:04.200 is Pearl Wells. And you were one of the mt 0:25:04.480 --> 0:25:06.919 that actually worked on my son the night that he 0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:11.480 had passed away. And right now actually uh chronic chronicling 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:15.000 this journey and a documentary and I am recording right now. 0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:16.800 And I was wondering if you had a few moments 0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:20.439 that I can talk to you about. Yes, can I 0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:25.000 show you his picture? And it was on the on 0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:29.520 Grand and Central. I had Courtney's flyer with me, the 0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:31.760 same one I had put up all over the neighborhood 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:36.040 and the picture of the BMW, and we were actually 0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:41.240 trying to get some information about his final moments. I'm sorry, man, 0:25:41.280 --> 0:25:45.160 but I don't recall uh much about it. I've been 0:25:45.200 --> 0:25:47.720 on the job for many years and a lot of runs. 0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:51.800 I'm sorry remember anything at all? Was that black guy 0:25:51.840 --> 0:25:56.560 and a BMW. We asked if you remember Courtney being 0:25:56.640 --> 0:26:00.800 handcuff He says he didn't recall. I don't recall. Okay, 0:26:01.200 --> 0:26:06.159 do you see a lot of gunshot victims handcuffed? I 0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:08.359 can't answer that, and I don't know. I'm not sure, 0:26:08.480 --> 0:26:12.160 so okay, because what she's concerned about her two things. 0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:14.920 One she really wants to know just his final moments, 0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:17.479 which it sounds like you just don't remember, okay. And 0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:20.200 the other thing is it's very concerning to her that 0:26:20.600 --> 0:26:23.280 he was handcuffed, and this was before he was in 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:29.920 the ambulance. And so I'm not a police officer paramedica, 0:26:30.200 --> 0:26:32.760 so whatever their procedures are, I don't know, But I 0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:36.600 know what paramedics don't handcuff people. Do you remember your cuffs? 0:26:37.119 --> 0:26:39.720