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Speaker 1: What you're about to hear in the following episode does

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Speaker 1: not implicate the Chicago police in the murder of Courtney.

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Speaker 1: Copeland previously on somebody, and so when they said that

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Speaker 1: he was combative, we were shocked with that information. We

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Speaker 1: never got their report about him that he was combative.

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Speaker 1: I know how he is, and I know he didn't

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Speaker 1: do anything to pose a threat. I remember him specifically

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Speaker 1: being handcuffed to the bed, and so we were like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: where's the police, we need these handcuffs all. My name

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Speaker 1: is Chaparral Wells. This is the story of my son, Courtney,

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Speaker 1: a young black man in a fancy car who wound

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Speaker 1: up with a bullet in his back in front of

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Speaker 1: a Chicago police station. It's the story of my search

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Speaker 1: for the truth. This is somebody. Everybody, these guys every day,

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Speaker 1: no bide He's not no. That's right. March four, one hour,

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Speaker 1: sixteen minutes and fifty three seconds. This is the last

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Speaker 1: time you hear Courtney alive, just moments after he's been shot.

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Speaker 1: It's difficult to understand, but I hear my baby saying

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Speaker 1: I've been shot. I've been shot. Chary. I felt as

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Speaker 1: a mom, like my baby he's hurt and I can't

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Speaker 1: be there. When police gave me Courtney's phone back, I

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Speaker 1: went straight to his recent calls and there it was.

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Speaker 1: But it took a whole year between me learning that

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Speaker 1: this call existed and hearing it for myself. Did my

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Speaker 1: son down? What do you mean as you did Courtney

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Speaker 1: Copeland down? Now? What do you think? Absolutely so? Why

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Speaker 1: weren't you Why didn't you inform me the first time

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Speaker 1: we met. That was a recording of my conversation with police.

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Speaker 1: They never told me that they had nine on one

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Speaker 1: call on Courtney. I wanted to hear the last moments

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Speaker 1: of my son's life. I felt like as a mom,

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Speaker 1: I deserved that It had been over a year since

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Speaker 1: they had contacted me about my son's style. I felt

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Speaker 1: like my son had become a statistic, like he was

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Speaker 1: basicly put on the shelf. The day after he died,

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Speaker 1: and I was in a battle with the city to

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Speaker 1: get them to release any in all videos that they had.

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Speaker 1: I wanted somebody, anybody to hear me. Okay, Facebook, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna try this again, Like I was saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: we are the average black family trying to fight against

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Speaker 1: a huge city and everywhere we turned, We're here the

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Speaker 1: doors getting slammed in our face. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: God just helped me to get to where I need

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Speaker 1: to be. I was reading through articles and I just

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Speaker 1: happened to come across article about Lakwan. Lakwan McDonald was

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Speaker 1: the biggest cover up that's the Chicago Police Department ever

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Speaker 1: had in its existence, far as far as I'm concerned.

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Speaker 1: Lakwan got shot sixteen times front and back, and he

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Speaker 1: was running away from police. He was seventeen years old,

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Speaker 1: a sixteen shots in a cover up. The police, the

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Speaker 1: city try to hide what happened to Lakwan until a

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Speaker 1: judge forced them to release that video. Now, the dash

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Speaker 1: camp video shows Van Dyke shooting and killing seventeen year

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Speaker 1: old Lakwan McDonald in two thousand fourteen. In the black community.

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Speaker 1: None of us were surprised to see this, but the

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Speaker 1: Lakwa McDonald case got the whole country talking about race

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Speaker 1: and the police for months. The only explanation offered for

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Speaker 1: while Lakwan McDonald died on that street was that an

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Speaker 1: officer had fired at him in self defense. That's Rachel

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Speaker 1: Maddow and the Kwon McDonald had been shot in the chest.

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Speaker 1: That was the public story about this case. The only

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Speaker 1: thing that interrupted that public trajectory is that some very

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Speaker 1: aggressive journalism happened in Chicago. I heard about this reporter

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Speaker 1: who blew open the case of Lakwa McDonald. Mr Calvin,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much for your time to that. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate you being here. It's good to be with you.

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Speaker 1: Um you've been chasing the information on this case for

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Speaker 1: so long. I decided I would reach out to that reporter,

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Speaker 1: Jamie Calvin, so I sent an email. I didn't even

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Speaker 1: know if anyone would actually read my note, but before

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Speaker 1: I knew it, I had someone from his organization on

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Speaker 1: the phone. So thank you for writing to us. No,

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Speaker 1: I've you know, been following or what you did with

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Speaker 1: La Kwan and uh, just trying to get someone to

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Speaker 1: listen to me because I'm like, it's just it just

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Speaker 1: doesn't add up. A few days later, I was sitting

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Speaker 1: down with Jamie. I brought all my papers with me,

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Speaker 1: my fouls, I mean, I had everything. I have such

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Speaker 1: strong impressions of that day, so I remember you're coming

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Speaker 1: and it's coming, and sitting right here at this table.

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Speaker 1: Your ability to find in that stack of paper without

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Speaker 1: file folders with tabs naming to find whatever document you

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Speaker 1: wanted to illustrate a points you were making, which I

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Speaker 1: think I still think of as a kind of card shark,

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Speaker 1: you know, virtuosity. But when I walked him through the case,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know at the end of the conversation how

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Speaker 1: it would go, what he would say, but I felt

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Speaker 1: that he was listening to me. I've had a lot

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Speaker 1: of these conversations in the course of my career, none

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Speaker 1: quite like this, because you've laid out the uh sequence

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Speaker 1: of events as you understood it, and identified the inconsistencies

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Speaker 1: and anomalies and just suspect things and the police account.

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Speaker 1: Jamie said that his journalism team will take the case.

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Speaker 1: They call themselves the Invisible Institute. When I first went there,

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Speaker 1: I was like, this really is invisible because the way

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Speaker 1: it's set back into a very secluded area, you'll never

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Speaker 1: know it exists, like a little detective agency type of feeling.

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Speaker 1: He actually referred me to his partner, Alison Flowers. Good

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Speaker 1: to see you. How are you? Allison is a journalist

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Speaker 1: at the Invisible Institute. I saw your busy this weekend

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Speaker 1: moving your daughter into college. Right first, I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to check in and see how your mother's day was.

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Speaker 1: She's so sweet, but she's a hardball. She will get

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Speaker 1: the answers for you. How long were you there? Were

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Speaker 1: there for? And Allison, you're sitting next to me right now.

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Speaker 1: Let's see, we've known each other now for almost three years.

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Speaker 1: It's been a long road and we've been in touch

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Speaker 1: almost every single day. Yes, okay, Alison, I'm back. Okay, Hey, Chap,

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Speaker 1: I'm here with Jamie and Bill by the way, Bills

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Speaker 1: with the Invisible Institute too. So person, how are you

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Speaker 1: feeling after the revelations. I remember when I first met you.

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Speaker 1: I think we were downstairs in the coffee shop, and

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Speaker 1: you were like very meticulous. You were taking notes, you

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Speaker 1: hit your list of questions, you hit Okay, hey, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna hit this, We're gonna do this, We're gonna do that.

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Speaker 1: At this point, I was like, hey, I love her,

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Speaker 1: you know. I remember you being very measured, but I

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Speaker 1: could also tell that you were in a lot of pain,

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Speaker 1: but it was almost sort of secondary to your drive.

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Speaker 1: When I first met you, you told me what you

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Speaker 1: believe happened to Courtney, that he died after an encounter

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Speaker 1: with police, and that this seemed like a traffic stop

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Speaker 1: gone wrong, and you had all this information that you've compiled,

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Speaker 1: the handcuffing, the fact that there was no blood in

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Speaker 1: the car, and the fact that they weren't releasing the

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Speaker 1: videos to you, and so you thought maybe Courtney was

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Speaker 1: shot somewhere else. There were just a lot of unanswered

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Speaker 1: questions at that time. So from here on out, Alison

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Speaker 1: is going to join me in this investigation. So one

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Speaker 1: of the first things we did was pull records for

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Speaker 1: the police officers who were outside the station with Courtney.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of officers on the scene, but

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Speaker 1: there were two main players, Officer Andrew Block and Sergeant

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Speaker 1: Sean Ronan. When Courtney pulled up to the station, Officer

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Speaker 1: Block was the first person he saw. Block said Courtney

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Speaker 1: got out of his car and rushed over to him.

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Speaker 1: He told him, I've been shot, and then he collapsed

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Speaker 1: to playing down a granted centeral of donim and just

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Speaker 1: said he was shot. Okay, look at the ms okay

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Speaker 1: right away. Block called an ambulance immediately, which is protocol.

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Speaker 1: And when we dug into his history, we didn't see much.

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Speaker 1: He's now a lieutenant, but then they're Sergeant Sean Ronan. Guys,

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Speaker 1: as soon as you can try and pinpoint the location,

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Speaker 1: we've got Rogan Glass at Felban and Long. It might

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Speaker 1: have happened over here, so we're just trying figure it out.

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Speaker 1: Ronan was the one running the show, and when we

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Speaker 1: checked out his history on the force, we found some

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Speaker 1: alarming stuff and he got a whole bunch of complaints

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Speaker 1: against him, thirty complaints that we've identified, more complaints than

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Speaker 1: eighty nine of other Chicago police officers. Ronan's been disciplined twice,

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Speaker 1: and that's pretty unusual, given that most of the time

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Speaker 1: in Chicago, complaints are dismissed in favor of police officers.

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Speaker 1: They are descriptions of him calling a black man a nigga,

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Speaker 1: a motherfucker, and a stupid ass gang bank and Ronan's

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Speaker 1: been accused of false arrest, planting evidence, slamming a man's

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Speaker 1: face into the concrete, and in one case, he and

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Speaker 1: some other officers were accused of throwing a man out

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Speaker 1: of window, tazing and beating him, and then refusing him

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Speaker 1: medical care. That case was settled, Ronan stayed on the force,

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Speaker 1: and then there's this from the year after Courtney died.

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Speaker 1: It's a video of Ronan shooting at a man during

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Speaker 1: a traffic stop. Six times. Police put in reports that

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Speaker 1: the man pointed a gun at them. He survived, Oh

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Speaker 1: my god. And Ronan was involved in another shooting, but

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Speaker 1: for that one he was given one of Chicago Police's

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Speaker 1: top awards, the Superintendent's Medal of Valor. I should note

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Speaker 1: that most officers never fired their guns over their whole careers.

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Speaker 1: So the fact that Ronan has done this at least twice,

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Speaker 1: that's a big deal. When I was investigating Courtney's murder

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Speaker 1: on my own, the city of Chicago didn't pay me

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Speaker 1: any mind. But when the Invisible Institute came aboard, they

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Speaker 1: changed their tune. The Invisible Institute sent in a ton

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Speaker 1: of record requests, not just for the records of the

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Speaker 1: officers on the scene, but for police videos and the

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Speaker 1: recordings from the scanner. And this got the attention of

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Speaker 1: the detectives. Finally, did he say why he was calling?

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Speaker 1: Just out of the blue after Fritilla. Here I am

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Speaker 1: on the phone with one of them Visible Institute reporters, Sam.

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Speaker 1: He said, I noticed, you guys have this valid forward

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Speaker 1: your question. I said, it's you're right to know. I

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Speaker 1: told Sam that the detective asked me to come down

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Speaker 1: to the station. Are you gonna go? I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out if I should go. A few days later,

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting down with those officers face to face. It's

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Speaker 1: been more than a year since our first and only meeting,

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Speaker 1: just after Courtney died, and I'm recording once again. When

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Speaker 1: I first heard Chapel's lease recordings, I was disturbed by

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Speaker 1: the way the officer spoke to her, a grieving mother.

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Speaker 1: We want to make sure there's context to everything, so

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Speaker 1: we're gonna let large, unedited chunks at this tape play out.

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Speaker 1: The first time I met police in that dingy old building,

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Speaker 1: I played alone because I needed their help. The second time,

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Speaker 1: I didn't come to play with them. I don't needed answers.

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Speaker 1: I needed to know what happened to myself. That's part

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Speaker 1: of your record. We sat across from each other from

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Speaker 1: the conference table, white board, vending machines, and fluorescent lights department.

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Speaker 1: I brought in my big case Foul, which had the

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Speaker 1: paramedics report that said my son had been handcuffed and

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Speaker 1: claimed he was violent and combative. This just starts me

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Speaker 1: greatly because of the fact that my son was handcuffed.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, if he collapses, at what point he

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Speaker 1: was he arrived at the hospital and uh, handcuffed? There

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Speaker 1: was a police officer that also followed the amulance. And

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Speaker 1: this is what I'm upset because I'm like, how do

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Speaker 1: you guys not know that my son was handcuffed? They

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Speaker 1: kept questioning what I had uncovered? What when was he handcuffed?

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Speaker 1: If you're saying that he was handcuffed during the time,

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Speaker 1: we never said he was handcuffed. Man, Okay, what's that is?

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's a that's a a CPD document. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's a CFD Okay, okay, So you're denying that he No, No,

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Speaker 1: I didn't say that. No, don't put police. Don't put

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Speaker 1: words in my mouth. I'm saying that that's that's that's

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Speaker 1: not a police department document. That's just that first. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a Chicago part of the document to review it

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Speaker 1: and cofens. Okay, again, it says handcuffs. Clearly I've never know. Okays, No,

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Speaker 1: it's obviously touch what I never know the handcuffed my

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Speaker 1: baby as he was dying. Don't know where and they

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Speaker 1: acted like it was routine. We can see why the

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Speaker 1: handcuffs were necessary, or restraints, restraints whatever, however he was

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Speaker 1: restrainted wasps or folies or whatever. Devices specifically said, who's

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Speaker 1: telling you at the hospital that he was handcuffed? Oh?

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Speaker 1: The nurses? Everybody told me who because we need to

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Speaker 1: talk to specifically? UM, I gave them the E R

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Speaker 1: nurse's name, Clarissa Hawkins. She's the one who told me

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Speaker 1: that Courtney was handcuffed to the stretcher when he arrived

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Speaker 1: at the hospital. They should have been with him in

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Speaker 1: the ambulance. That's the policy completely Again, if you put

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Speaker 1: handcuffs on a patient, you would also then in turn

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Speaker 1: put that information into your file that said that this

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Speaker 1: person was handcuffs. I've never done that. Why not? Why

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Speaker 1: why wouldn't he under arrest? Who knows? You tell me

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Speaker 1: he was never? I don't know, but I'm telling you

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a lot of things that you

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Speaker 1: told me that have not panned out, such a one

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Speaker 1: in regards to his uh in regards to him well here,

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Speaker 1: I have no no, no, You're you're saying a lot

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Speaker 1: of things. Tell me why I'm gonna give you. Well,

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Speaker 1: I've been investigating in regards to this case. Okay, go ahead, Okay.

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Speaker 1: I felt angry. I felt like they were gas lighting me,

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Speaker 1: like they were just sitting here lying in my face,

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Speaker 1: even though the proof is right in front of me.

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Speaker 1: So again, at one point in time from him, what

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Speaker 1: does that have anything to do with a solving new

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Speaker 1: shot up? What does that have any Does that have

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Speaker 1: anything to do with a solving crime. No, what they're

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Speaker 1: saying is the fact that he was handcuffed had nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with solving his murder. It's not probitive evidence

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Speaker 1: to solving the crime of who shot your son, ma'am. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you want to do which is our end goal? Which

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Speaker 1: is our end goal? So what so what this tells you?

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm more than Tom. Well, you know what, I'm

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Speaker 1: just kind of this way, um, because back and forth,

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Speaker 1: back and forth, this could have gone on forever. I

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Speaker 1: was mad as hell when they told me that they

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Speaker 1: still had not even talked to the on same officers

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Speaker 1: after a year of investigating my son's murder. They had

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Speaker 1: their own reports and they just assumed what was written

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Speaker 1: was true, and they were growing tired of listening to

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Speaker 1: me that's basically what you' that's what the officer. These

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Speaker 1: are all assumptions, These are not facts. Then they started

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Speaker 1: talking very sarcastic to me, flipping through their reports, saying

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Speaker 1: to each other, how many fouls you got there? It

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Speaker 1: appears you put some work into its working it. I'm

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Speaker 1: not denying that he didn't put any work. I'm just

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Speaker 1: trying to make him long borrow. That's my life, this

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Speaker 1: is my chat. They kept trying to tell me how

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Speaker 1: much work they put into the case, the time driving

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Speaker 1: around that neighborhood looking for video with me and trying

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Speaker 1: to find video evidence. But they missed up. I know

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Speaker 1: they did because I was talking to people that they

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Speaker 1: had never talked to. And if I could have talked

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Speaker 1: to the on SENE officers myself, I would have certainty

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Speaker 1: that this is not a possibility. So what you're telling

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Speaker 1: me is this, you believe I don't believe the police

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Speaker 1: targeted your son. I believe shot and killed him in

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Speaker 1: front of the police stage. No. I believe that not

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Speaker 1: enough has been done to solve courtneys murder. What would

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Speaker 1: you like? What would you like done that I haven't done.

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Speaker 1: I personally would have went back and reinterviewed everybody to

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Speaker 1: make sure that we They assume police officers tell the truth,

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Speaker 1: but I don't. Sergeant Mitchell, Yes, now they saw in

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Speaker 1: the history that no no, no, no, no, no, don't

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Speaker 1: even don't even no no, no no, no. What what I'm

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Speaker 1: saying to you is that this problem didn't just occur

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Speaker 1: with Courtney Copeland's case. The breakdown from the community. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm not not just just I am talking reality.

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Speaker 1: I'm here to talk to you until you begin to

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Speaker 1: meet to these white men or having none of my

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Speaker 1: experience as a black woman in Chicago, your department has

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Speaker 1: not saying this particular I'm just saying CPD in general

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Speaker 1: has a history that has been tainted. I know it's unfair, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: especially to these two gentlemen in this room. Absolutely it is.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, I know it's unfair, but that is just

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Speaker 1: bring it off because it's the reality that it's not

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Speaker 1: with these two guys, because I know him personally, noting

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Speaker 1: that they didn't think to my son, I take offense

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Speaker 1: to that. I really do, because your painting would have

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Speaker 1: broad brush. Man, It's not a broader brush when it's

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Speaker 1: everyday reality. Do you understand Okay, start to I'm not

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Speaker 1: you know what, do you understand that that's the reality

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Speaker 1: with black and brown people in Chicago? Not? And I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you not what else. I wanted them to understand

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Speaker 1: that this wasn't only my perspective. And if if I

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Speaker 1: haven't been clear on this, I apologize. Our goal, our

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Speaker 1: stated goal here is to find, arrest, charge, and convict

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Speaker 1: the offenders who did this series. That's our state goal. Okay,

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Speaker 1: no variants, no nothing, no politics, no bullshit, no nothing.

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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you something else. Regardless of what you

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Speaker 1: may think of me because I'm white, I it doesn't

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Speaker 1: talking that, but I love you to think that. I really,

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Speaker 1: I really don't care because I've been a policeman long

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Speaker 1: enough where there's some people that just that this is

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Speaker 1: what is what they have a problem with. I want

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Speaker 1: to let you know, number one, I don't have a

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Speaker 1: problem with it. If that's the way you feel, that's

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Speaker 1: the way you feel about me, that's fine. I just know.

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Speaker 1: But I I just want to want everybody. I want

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Speaker 1: to let you know it still is you. You could

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Speaker 1: spit on the floor when you see me, it's still

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Speaker 1: not going to affect me from from from working, and

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Speaker 1: if I whether we never talk again or we become good,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter one way or another to me. If

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Speaker 1: something good comes that I'm able to pick up and

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Speaker 1: run with, I'm gonna I'm gonna run with it with

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Speaker 1: with your son's murder, And whether you yet thank me

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Speaker 1: or tell me to get fucked at the end all

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Speaker 1: of this, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I'm definitely

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Speaker 1: gonna thank you because that's my Yeah, I want to know, why,

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00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: so do I. I? But no, okay, so do I.

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Speaker 1: But as far as this whole black, brown, green ship,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. I said, you can't discount the history of

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Speaker 1: what happened. It was time ago. But before I left,

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Speaker 1: there was one more thing they wanted to be sure

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Speaker 1: to say to me. This also bothered me from her

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Speaker 1: conversation the other day, the fact that you're recording me

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Speaker 1: without my knowledge or consent. If you if you ask

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00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: me something, I'll answer you as truthful as I know,

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Speaker 1: but do not be surreptitiously recording me. It's all I'll

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00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: tell you. It's it's a crime. It's actually not illegal,

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure your attorney would tell you the same thing,

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Speaker 1: just like I can't turn this on and record you.

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Speaker 1: So I'm okay with be a reported Well no more,

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Speaker 1: I know, but I have to let you know and

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00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,719
Speaker 1: I'm not okay being recorded. So just so you know,

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00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: I don't nothing. I neither do I. But you're still

346
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: you do not have money to record me. It's illegal.

347
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 1: So just so you know, because I know you've been

348
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Speaker 1: recording me every conversation. You're recording me from the first

349
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Speaker 1: time of first day we Matt, why do you say that?

350
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Speaker 1: Because do I have a reason to record it? I

351
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 1: don't know. You eidently you think you do, because your

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00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,719
Speaker 1: your whole focus on this thing is is something the

353
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Speaker 1: police did wrong. I just wanted to know what happened

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Speaker 1: to my son, and to me, nothing was off the table.

355
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Speaker 1: What you're saying is he was calling nine one one

356
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Speaker 1: while he was on the phone while the police were

357
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Speaker 1: and then the police killed him. I don't know if

358
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Speaker 1: the police kid. I don't know. I don't they have

359
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: good luck with your good luck with your parallel investigation.

360
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: I don't know good luck. I don't know good luck

361
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Speaker 1: because you didn't get any answers that I don't have.

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Speaker 1: What I'm saying that I am open to all scenarios,

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Speaker 1: so am I. By this time the supervising sergeant had

364
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Speaker 1: already walked out the room. Where you go, Okay, let's

365
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: hit it. I needed to find someone who would tell

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Speaker 1: me the truth, someone who was right there outside the

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Speaker 1: police station. I got the name of one of the

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00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: e m t s who cared for Courtney at the scene,

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00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: Daniel Cortez Allison, and I decided to knock on his

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Speaker 1: front door. They probably think it's somebody electionary. Well, what

371
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Speaker 1: do you do? You want to write a Right as

372
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: we were leaving, he opened the door. I had a

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Speaker 1: mic clip to my jacket, so that's why it sounds

374
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Speaker 1: a little fuzzy. Oh hi, hi, the cortest. My name

375
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: is Pearl Wells. And you were one of the mt

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Speaker 1: that actually worked on my son the night that he

377
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: had passed away. And right now actually uh chronic chronicling

378
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Speaker 1: this journey and a documentary and I am recording right now.

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Speaker 1: And I was wondering if you had a few moments

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Speaker 1: that I can talk to you about. Yes, can I

381
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Speaker 1: show you his picture? And it was on the on

382
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Speaker 1: Grand and Central. I had Courtney's flyer with me, the

383
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Speaker 1: same one I had put up all over the neighborhood

384
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Speaker 1: and the picture of the BMW, and we were actually

385
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Speaker 1: trying to get some information about his final moments. I'm sorry, man,

386
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: but I don't recall uh much about it. I've been

387
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Speaker 1: on the job for many years and a lot of runs.

388
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: I'm sorry remember anything at all? Was that black guy

389
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Speaker 1: and a BMW. We asked if you remember Courtney being

390
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Speaker 1: handcuff He says he didn't recall. I don't recall. Okay,

391
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Speaker 1: do you see a lot of gunshot victims handcuffed? I

392
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: can't answer that, and I don't know. I'm not sure,

393
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: so okay, because what she's concerned about her two things.

394
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: One she really wants to know just his final moments,

395
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,479
Speaker 1: which it sounds like you just don't remember, okay. And

396
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: the other thing is it's very concerning to her that

397
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: he was handcuffed, and this was before he was in

398
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: the ambulance. And so I'm not a police officer paramedica,

399
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: so whatever their procedures are, I don't know, But I

400
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: know what paramedics don't handcuff people. Do you remember your cuffs?

401
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: That's for the police. So you wouldn't have requested the

402
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: handcuffs on a patient unless they're being physically violent towards me.

403
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: But you don't remember this. Unless someone's physically being violent

404
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: towards me, then I would have them arrested because hitting

405
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: meus like hitting a coff. Okay, do you remember that?

406
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't recall that. I don't remember

407
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 1: any of that. Do you remember this case at all?

408
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: Not much. I've already explained that, so you can stop questioning. Okay.

409
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: I don't need to be aggressive. I just wanted to

410
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: already an answer. So that's an answer, right, Okay, was

411
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: an answer. Okay, I'm sorry for yours. Thank you, thank

412
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: you so much. Thank you for your time, for not

413
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: being better healthful, you know I got I'm sorry for

414
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 1: the loss health. Thank you so much. All Right, have

415
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: a good day. Thank you. Let me get this straight.

416
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: He didn't remember, he didn't remember my son, who was

417
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: right in front of the district police station. I mean, like,

418
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: how often does this happen? Right? And there was one

419
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: thing he specifically did not remember though. Yeah, he didn't

420
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: remember Courtney being combative. He did not say that Courtney

421
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: was fighting, he was violent. But this is the narrative

422
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: that they wrote in their reports. I mean this whole

423
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: case for me is about uncovering the truth, but it's

424
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: also about clearing Courtney's name. After the Invisible Institute stepped in,

425
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the city had no problems releasing

426
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: the videos from the night Courtney died. They also released

427
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: the police radio from that night, picking a male of

428
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: His name is Chicotey Copeland, The birth of a second

429
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: It's hard to understand, but if you listen closely, the

430
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: officer says, he gave me a date of birth. Then

431
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: he pauses, he gave me a date of birth, the

432
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: birth of The detectives at the hospital told me Corton

433
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: didn't say anything after collapse, but Courtney was talking to

434
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: them and giving them information. Finally, almost five hundred days

435
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: after my son died, the city sent me a bunch

436
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: of DVDs in the mail. I truly felt so sick

437
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: about it because what I was about to see. I

438
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: braced myself and I popped the first one in the

439
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: player in the bedroom. The disc won't even play because

440
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: the city sent them in this crazy format G sixty four,

441
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: which I've never even heard of. This was gonna be

442
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: the first time I was going to see the final

443
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: moments of my son, and then for those videos not

444
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: to play, and they knew that I wouldn't be able

445
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: to open this format. It's like they were trying to

446
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: make it impossible for me to find out the truth.

447
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: But about a week later, the folks from the Invisible

448
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: Institute were able to convert the footage and they brought

449
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: it over to my house. Thank you for coming, technical wizards.

450
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: Thank you guys have not you know? So what do

451
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: you think of it? Why don't you watch that? Oh?

452
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: But we sat at the dining room table. It was me,

453
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: my mom, Brent, Courtney's little sisters, and my unc kimp.

454
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: The videos came from four different cameras. The main one

455
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: was in front of the police station. There were also

456
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: other camera angles from around the block. Remember it's in

457
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: the middle of the night. The video is kind of

458
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: grainy and pretty bad. This is the police station. You

459
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: can see you, yeah, the addresses. In the following too,

460
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: we see the BMW outside the police station. The car

461
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: is still running. We can see the smoke coming from

462
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: the exhaust pipe. There are two police cars behind the BMW.

463
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: Then another one shows up with its lights on. It

464
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: looks like Courtney's car has been pulled over, but Courtney

465
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: himself it's nowhere in sight. Right then the camera swings away,

466
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: But why would you move the ham here? You know

467
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: it's something going on over there. And you can see

468
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: the lights bouncing off right. You know there are cars

469
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: right and you can see them increase as a few

470
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: more cars come out. We don't even know what's going on.

471
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: We still can't see where cortneyer is or what the

472
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: police are doing. Finally, a few minutes later, the camera

473
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: comes back to the scene, but still no Courtney. It

474
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: looks like his jacket that's there. It was freezing that night.

475
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: I know Courtney was wearing his pea coat when he

476
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: was shot. There's a bullet hole in the back. But

477
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: here it is us crumbled up on the ground. Where

478
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: is he? A police officers looking through the back window

479
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: of the BMW with a flashlight. And then the camera

480
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: pans and we see Courtney for the first time. Courtney

481
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: is laying on the ground on his elbows and he's

482
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: shifting his weight. He was wearing a red Nike sweater.

483
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: It was his favorite sweater. Courtney is surrounded by officers.

484
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: Ye see right here, this is what the tow drop

485
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: driver saw see Courtney is there on the ground. Look

486
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: at that. Hey wait a minute, Look my son is

487
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: on his hands and knees. He's reaching up for somebody

488
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: to help him. On the police radio, this is when

489
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: they call for more officers to the scene. Courtney is

490
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: definitely not combative. He's not violent or danger to others. Oh,

491
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: the E M T S are there now, right now,

492
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,239
Speaker 1: there's an ambulance on the scene. There's an unmarked car

493
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: blocking part of the camera's view of Courtney. Somebody, either

494
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: a paramedic or cop is pulling him up like fast

495
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: and forcefully from the ground. It looks like there could

496
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: be a stretcher right there. The video, it's really blurry here.

497
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: You can't really see what's going on. But according to

498
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: the paramedics report, this is the moment that Courtney was handcuffed.

499
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: So handing this has to be. This is what they're

500
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: doing on. This is what they're doing on they're comfortable.

501
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: Oh no, happier to be a combat it right now.

502
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: Just get through his feet. Yeah, so name what they're doing.

503
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: Oh oh, then Courtney was gone. Maybe he's in the ambulance.

504
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: All we know is that we don't see him again.

505
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: My whole family. We were all at the dining room table,

506
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: just holding on to each other. We went back through

507
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: the footage of Courtney's driving en route to his girlfriend's

508
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: house before he got shot. Jamie pointed out that Cordney's

509
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: BMW was being followed by two police cars, one mark

510
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 1: and one unmarked, and then these three cars they disappeared

511
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: off the screen, and when we see Courtney next, he's

512
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: on the ground reaching up for help and he's surrounded

513
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: by police. When the Invisible Institute came to my house

514
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: with those police videos and we saw Courtney on his knees,

515
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 1: shot and begging for help, I saw for myself what

516
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: I already felt in my bone, the taps. Here's what

517
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: we saw. Two police cars following Courtney's BMW. They're all

518
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: they're driving down the street. The next time we see

519
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: my son, he's on the ground in front of the

520
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: police station. What happened during those moments we couldn't see

521
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: between him driving his car down the street and ended

522
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 1: up with a bullet in his back. Everything was telling

523
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: me that the police shot my son. I sat with

524
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: this for a few days. I was by myself. My husband,

525
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: Brent was out of town, he drives a truck, so

526
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: he was on his job. But then Jamie from the

527
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: Invisible Institute came back to my door. He re examined

528
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: those videos and he had new information information that changed everything.

529
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: The idea that the police were implicated. It seems much

530
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 1: less likely now, okay, um, which, as I say, I'm

531
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: speaking for myself, is something of a relief. I mean,

532
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: we don't want that to be true, even though a

533
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: big story, but another you don't want it to be true.

534
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: After he left, I called Brent and explained everything. Hello, Hey,

535
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: can you talk. He was out on the road driving

536
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: through the rain. The first car that we thought were

537
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: the police that was not Courtney's vehicle in the in

538
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: the league Okay, And they found some new evidence that

539
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: said that it may have happened the way uh. The

540
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: police stated they looked at the car more closely, the

541
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: shape of the trunk, the headlights in the windows. It

542
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: did not match the structure of a BMW. It turns

543
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: out it was never Courtney's BMW. We were looking at

544
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: the wrong car. And there is a video showing Courtney's

545
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: actual car and you can see him going down the

546
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 1: side street not being followed by anyone speeding towards the

547
00:38:53,239 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: police station. One thing that Jamie said before he left

548
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 1: the first time is that he told me, now we

549
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: have to go investigate our investigation. And I'm glad he

550
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: did because I wouldn't want to implicate wrongly anyone for

551
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: this murder. So now it's seen that police never followed

552
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: Courtney's car after all that it may have happened like

553
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: the police told us Courtney was shot and then drove

554
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: himself to the police for help. Uh. You know, they

555
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: still you know, feel that, you know, he was treated

556
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: kind of badly, but they don't necessarily believe at this

557
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: time they actually did the shooting. I mean, it's it's

558
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: hard to swallow, you know, it's hard to swallow, you know. Um.

559
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: I mean because Sunday I was feeling okay, maybe they

560
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 1: actually did do it, But now I'm okay, maybe they didn't.

561
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 1: Look pretty much. That gets square one where you probably

562
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: he still never find camel, right, it's still alighted down on. Yeah. Yeah,

563
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 1: it was just stormy because it's because it's like a

564
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: I food now here, okay, babe, I'm uh, I just

565
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: need to process all of this. I'll be here for

566
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,919
Speaker 1: you as soon as I can. All right, love, all right,

567
00:40:47,480 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: by bye. When I thought police killed Courtney and made

568
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: me feel like his death served some type of higher

569
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: purpose like Emmett Till or Lakwa McDonald, they're killing actually

570
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: woke up the country with Emmett Till when people saw

571
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: how he was murdered, they were shocked to see such brutality,

572
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 1: and the same with Lakwam McDonald. With Corney dying, if

573
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 1: the police did it, it would have been a major

574
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: cover up and it would have shook Chicago to the core.

575
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: But if cops didn't kill him, then his death was

576
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:46,399
Speaker 1: just another unsolved Chicago murder. I went from knowing who

577
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 1: killed my son to knowing nothing. I talked with him

578
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: Visible Institute folks and Alison, you and Jamie told me

579
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: that you stay on the case and we start this

580
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 1: all again. But the way police treated Courtney still wasn't okay,

581
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: and it wasn't just We need to reckon with this

582
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: and we need to find out who really did kill Courtney.

583
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: So that's where we're headed next. But first we needed

584
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: to better understand how we got this wrong. So I

585
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: sat down with Jamie to talk about it. So I

586
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: think we were in retrospect predisposed to find that the

587
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: police were implicated in the murder At the Invisible Institute,

588
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: our goal is to hold public institutions accountable, and we

589
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: see a lot of cases involving police abuse. In the

590
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: past decade, the city of Chicago has paid out more

591
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: than a half a billion dollars in police misconduct lawsuits.

592
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: All of this is true, and it influenced the way

593
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: we saw those videos. Now we had to walk back

594
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 1: our assumptions and start over again. The metaphor of walking

595
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: back and assumption feels exactly right. You're really trying to

596
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: to reorient and and reboot the really the entire investigation. Alison,

597
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: what's been your experience with police. My perspective on the

598
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: police has changed over time. When I was a kid,

599
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: I thought, like a lot of white people do, that

600
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: the police existed just to keep everybody safe. One time,

601
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: I was in my twenties and I thought someone was

602
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: breaking into my apartment, so I rushed into my closet

603
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: and I called nine one one, and when the police came,

604
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: they just told me it was a raccoon officer. Friendly.

605
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 1: Then later as a reporter, I've called on the police

606
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: to help me with stories, and I've also had to

607
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: call out the police and report on their abuses of power.

608
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,399
Speaker 1: Now I'm married and my husband is black, and he's

609
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: been pulled over by police searched by dogs twice. The

610
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: last time this happened, he was actually on his way

611
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 1: back from a job interview and wearing a suit. We

612
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: have a three year old son, and he was actually

613
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 1: just a few months old when I met you, Chapral

614
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: So your story about losing your son just hit me

615
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: right in the gut. I remember um having the conversation

616
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: with my son of how to interact with police. Make

617
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 1: sure you don't reach for anything. Cortney, be very calm,

618
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: be very polite and courteous. Yes, sir, Yes, ma'am. You

619
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 1: have to have these conversations. It's like it's different for

620
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: white people in America and black people in America. It

621
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: has always been different, and there has always been a

622
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: sense of h I believe comfort for white people in

623
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,879
Speaker 1: a sense of fear for black people when it comes

624
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: to police. Right. I wasn't raised to fear the police,

625
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: and we were. For me and Brent, our fear goes

626
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: way way back. Both our grandparents. They grew up in

627
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: the South. You know. My grandmother was born in nineteen Yeah,

628
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: my grandfather's a nineteen and they saw a lot and

629
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: my grandmother actually had to flee from the South because

630
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: of all the hangings and the lynching and everything like that.

631
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: My grandmother must always called him the man. You know,

632
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: we had to flee from the man. We had to

633
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: leave because of the man. She said that, you know,

634
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: she only experienced some type of freedom when she came

635
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: to Chicago. I'm just glad that she didn't see what

636
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: happened to Courdney, because I don't think that she would

637
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 1: be able to have survived it. Yeah. Sometimes I just

638
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: sit here and I just think, like I'm still in

639
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: the days. There was m a rhyme that came to

640
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: mind that I heard back in high school, like senior year,

641
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: because it's talking about police and police brutality, and it

642
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: said you were put here to protect us, but who

643
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: protects us from you? I remember when Courtney was about

644
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: six months old. It was the summer, and we were

645
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: staying with my grandmother in the Inglewood area. One day,

646
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: we were all sitting on the porch, just me and

647
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,879
Speaker 1: my cousins, my uncle's and then all of a sudden game.

648
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: Bankers just started shooting out of nowhere, and I remember

649
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: my uncle grabbing Courtney out of my hands and rushing

650
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,839
Speaker 1: us up in the house upstairs so that we can

651
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: be safe. I remember telling myself, I cannot lose my

652
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 1: son to these streets. That day, I said I'm moving.

653
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: I lived out of my car for about two weeks

654
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,879
Speaker 1: until I was able to secure an apartment. I was like,

655
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,760
Speaker 1: my son is going to have a chance of surviving,

656
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: and that was my goal, was just to keep him safe,

657
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 1: to keep him out of harm's way so that he

658
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: can grow up and and enjoy his life without worrying

659
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: about being shot and killed in Chicago. C O. P

660
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: E l A n D. First name Courtney. Um can

661
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: I have a date of three four sixteen. I've been

662
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 1: dreading it, but I went back to the place where

663
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:07,240
Speaker 1: they did Courtney's autopsy, the medical Examiner's office, the mom

664
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 1: The last time I was there, I identified my son's

665
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: body on a metal slab. That's the doctor that did

666
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 1: the examination. That's the case number, and then this is

667
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 1: the doctor's assisting she'll be able to speak with you

668
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,919
Speaker 1: and maybe set up something where you guys can speak

669
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,760
Speaker 1: about it and clarify. I was there because my son's

670
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: case was coming down to two questions. One who killed Courtney?

671
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 1: I promise you we're gonna dig into that soon. And

672
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: two did police do everything they could to help him?

673
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: I needed to know if my son could have survived

674
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: this injury. There's a note in the hospital records that

675
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: Courtney's a order got hit, that's the main artery in

676
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: the body, But the autopsy report says nothing about that

677
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: order getting hit. In fact, it says it was intact.

678
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 1: So I just left the emmy's office. I want to know,

679
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,760
Speaker 1: but I don't want to know. So anyway, I'm gonna

680
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: give them a call and see what they say. Hopefully

681
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: they could answer these present questions. The eight order getting

682
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: hit means he would have bled out within minutes, and

683
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: this all mattered because there were delays in Courtney's case. Yes,

684
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,280
Speaker 1: I felt that they took too long to get him

685
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: to the hospital. From the time that he was on

686
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 1: the scene in front of the police station into the

687
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: time that they drove off in the ambulance, it was

688
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 1: about thirteen minutes. Every part of me wants to believe

689
00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: that my son could have survived. Every part part of me.

690
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:06,479
Speaker 1: Every part of me wants to believe that I had

691
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: time to get to him. Every part of me wants

692
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: to believe. So, Chapel, you were waiting to get answers

693
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: from the medical examiner, and we'd already tried to talk

694
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: to Courtney's surgeon, but the hospital wouldn't let her speak

695
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 1: to us. So in the meantime we turned to other

696
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: medical experts to look at the case. From the Corners report,

697
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: it appeared that the bullet went through his lung and

698
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 1: then it was launched somewhere in the muscles of his

699
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: left neck. Grace Chang is a trauma surgeon at Mount Sinai,

700
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: a hospital on Chicago's West Side. We actually talked to

701
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 1: three trauma surgeons, but Dr Chang was the only one

702
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,919
Speaker 1: whould go on the record, and right away she told

703
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: us something that helped us understand why there was no

704
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: blood in Courtney's car, because he wasn't just bleeding out,

705
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: he was bleeding in. You could say, his his chest

706
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: cavity was filling with blood. Yeah. Um, that's a pretty

707
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: large receptacle. It can hold a live hold several leaders

708
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 1: of blood Assentially. Dr Chang described the emergency surgery when

709
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: doctors opened up Courtney's chest. You go in there, you

710
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: resuscitate their heart, and you can also fix and stop

711
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: the bleeding. So that's why you do that. She also

712
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 1: noticed the discrepancy between the surgeon's report and the autopsy

713
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: report about the a ORDA asked had it gone through

714
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: the a ORDA? Typically that's not a survival injury either,

715
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: So that's why I watch my butt down to the

716
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's office for answers. Was Courtney's a order hit

717
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 1: or not? Did he have a chance or not? In

718
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: the next day, they called me back Alice, and I

719
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: hoped right on the phone right after she said her

720
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 1: finding when she did the autopsy, Uh, they did. She

721
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: didn't find any damage today order. So that's why she

722
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: didn't include it in her in her autopsy. And she's like,

723
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,879
Speaker 1: you know, you know he did lead out. Um Uh,

724
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: she said you could tell that by the amount of

725
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: blood that was in his chest. She had actually reviewed

726
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: his file again and she says that his order was intact.

727
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 1: It still brings me back to had they taken him

728
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: to the hospital right away, because he's begging him like

729
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: he helped me, help me. Don't stand around looking at me,

730
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: helped me get me for the hospital. For the life

731
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,280
Speaker 1: of me, the life of me, Alixon, I can't say

732
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: that that he would have survived. I can't say a

733
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: I just wanted them to give him a chance. They

734
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 1: didn't give him a chance. Courtney's heart stopped in the

735
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 1: ambulance four minutes before he arrived at the hospital. If

736
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: he had got there just a few minutes earlier, maybe

737
00:52:55,120 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 1: he could have been saved. So every delay mattered. We

738
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: kept coming back to the fact that Courtney was handcuffed.

739
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: Reports say it was because he was combative, and by

740
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: the way, it's not uncommon for trauma patients to present

741
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:17,919
Speaker 1: a combative, especially when they're losing lung function, but handcuffs

742
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: aren't used when trauma patients are combative. A spokesperson for

743
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: the Chicago Fire Department told me they're paramedics, don't use handcuffs,

744
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 1: they don't have handcuffs, and they don't restrain people with handcuffs.

745
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: We exchanged dozens of emails, but then when we asked

746
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: the spokesperson about Courtney's case specifically, that's when their story changed.

747
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: He told me they requested cuffs because Courtney was flailing

748
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: in the street. Before paramedics arrived. But that's just not

749
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: what the video shows. It doesn't make sense. Well, we

750
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: know at this point that they had his plates, and

751
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 1: they had his name, and they knew that the car

752
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 1: wasn't registered to him, and they were treating him as

753
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:02,720
Speaker 1: a suspect more in the victim. That's just the bottom line.

754
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: You can see him reaching up begging them for help.

755
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 1: You see this on this tape. And the fact that

756
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 1: they're saying that they're only resolution was to handcuff him.

757
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: I just know that they wouldn't have done this to

758
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:36,359
Speaker 1: somebody who was white. Um okay, let me just pull

759
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: up the video. It's about roughly nineteen minutes into the video.

760
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: But um, h okay, he's a guy in the red hoodie.

761
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: I mean, looking at this segment of the video, it

762
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:57,839
Speaker 1: looks as if he's lying there mostly a mobile as

763
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: police are kind of standing up ound him. Stephen Russian

764
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: as a professor at Loyola Law School. He specializes in

765
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 1: police reform. We wanted his take on the police's treatment

766
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: of Courtney, so we watched the footage together of Courtney

767
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: outside the police station and there's a crowd of officers

768
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 1: just milling around and it does not look to me

769
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: as though he's receiving any medical treatment. It looks like

770
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: he's being treated like a suspect. Because I think one

771
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 1: thing we haven't talked about is the number of officers

772
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: around him, all of which is relevant. If you're going

773
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 1: to say he's a threat, if he's a risk other people,

774
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 1: threat to the officers, you have one too, three four

775
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:34,919
Speaker 1: officers looks like and yeah, if you hadn't he hadn't

776
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 1: put this in context for him, it looks like they

777
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: are handcuffing a suspect to bring him in for an arrest.

778
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: There were at least eleven police officers on the scene.

779
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: I asked Russian about another fact. There were no police

780
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 1: on board the ambulance to unlock the handcuffs. Courtney's ear nurse, CLARESSA.

781
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: Hawkins told us they couldn't get to work on Courtney

782
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: right away because they had to wait for the police

783
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 1: to arrive. Um, if they're arresting someone suffering a you know,

784
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 1: life threatening wound, and that person has to go to

785
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: the hospital and they're in cuffs, do you know whether

786
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: the police have to accompany in the ambulance follow because

787
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 1: I think they would need to be there to like

788
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,879
Speaker 1: on handcuff it, right, so it's not. But in this

789
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 1: case they weren't in the ambulance. As a lawyer of

790
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 1: that starts down there like a civil liability issue there

791
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: immediately right. What Russian is saying is this, by handcuffing

792
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,720
Speaker 1: Courtney and not going with him in the ambulance, police

793
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:35,439
Speaker 1: officers may have stood in the way of Courtney's life

794
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 1: saving treatment. There's another delay that also bothered me. Courtney

795
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: was shot on the northwest side of Chicago, but got

796
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: transported all the way east to Illinois Masonic Hospital in

797
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 1: the Lakeview neighborhood. Paramedics and Illinois are supposed to take

798
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: the gunshot victims to the closest trauma center that can

799
00:56:56,280 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 1: take them. The closest trauma center was not Anoymasonic, but

800
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: maybe it was the fastest one to get there that night. Nope,

801
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: we checked that out too, So we found out that

802
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: there were actually two other trauma centers that were closer

803
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 1: and faster to get to, Strosure and Mount Sinai. Not

804
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: dramatically closer, but when we're talking about life or death,

805
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 1: minutes really do matter. It could have saved him another

806
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: five to ten minutes on the road. We looked at

807
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: all different routes, times of day, and traffic patterns, and

808
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: why these four or five or even ten minutes matters.

809
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: It's because my son's heart stopped four minutes before getting

810
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 1: to the hospital. Every day. I can't help thinking about

811
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: the difference those few minutes could have made. I mean,

812
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: what do you do with this information? None of this

813
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: makes sense to me. I where to God not if

814
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: it makes sense. It hurts my heart. I'll tell you

815
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I think Courtneys. You know, I didn't want

816
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: to say he's lucky because what happened to him was

817
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: so unlucky. But you know, if you're going to have

818
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,479
Speaker 1: any mom in the world to get answers for you,

819
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 1: you wanted to be Chaparral Wells. Police never found any

820
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 1: physical evidence in the car, just some broken glass on

821
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 1: the street. The state crime lab analyze the bullet fragment

822
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 1: lodged into Courtney's neck and the bullet jacket, but it

823
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: just wasn't enough to identify a gun. But we knew

824
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: a neighborhood two shots, so where's the other bullet? I'm

825
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: just surprised that there wasn't anything recovered from the autopsy

826
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: um or or in the car. That's just just kind

827
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 1: of amazing that there was nothing. We talked to this

828
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: firearms forensic expert, David Brundage. He said he was surprised

829
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: police didn't find anything when they processed the car. The

830
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: police searched the car unseen. Brundish said they should have

831
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: also searched the car under better lighting, like an open garage.

832
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: So actually, let me get my evidence back ready. Brundage

833
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: told us that sometimes bullets can hide in the seams

834
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: of car seats. They just leave tiny slits and until

835
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 1: you remove the seat and search, you'll never know. It

836
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 1: could actually lead us to the murder weapon. He said

837
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 1: the second bullet might still be in the car and

838
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: gave us instructions on how to search for it. Well

839
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 1: not so. We found a BMW certified mechanic at a

840
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 1: little auto shop in the sub birds. He agreed to

841
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 1: help us take the car apart, both the seat the

842
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: entire seats and take it out of the bat and

843
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: then where are you gonna put it? We took out

844
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: the front seats. After all this time we saw some

845
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: broken glass. All right, Chaparral, you want a girl ahead

846
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: and grabbed that glass. Tell many pieces? Is that one, two, three,

847
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: four or five? Six? Okay, so we don't find anything here,

848
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: Where's the bullet? We kept searching, but we didn't find

849
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: a bullet. We did find some debris that looked like

850
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: it could be something, so we put it in evidence backs.

851
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 1: We sent them back to the firearms for rented expert,

852
01:00:53,360 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 1: and we waited. When we got the news, we were disappointed.

853
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 1: I'm getting you have some sort of news to report. Yes, well, yes,

854
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 1: it is not very very informative. But I finished looking

855
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 1: at the physical items that you shipped to me. I

856
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: did find one kernel of gunpowder. Yeah. He told us

857
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 1: that when he looked at it under a microscope, all

858
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 1: he could see was that the gunpowder was likely from

859
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: the Winchester Owl Incorporation, which sells to a number of

860
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 1: ammunition companies. It could have been used in almost any

861
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 1: type of gun. Well, at least we looked because our

862
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 1: investigation was going to be thorough. Now that we were

863
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 1: rebooting the investigation, we all returned to the street where

864
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 1: we believe Courtney was shot, the spot where his friends

865
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 1: first collected broken glass and saw skid marks, and where

866
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 1: a neighbor said she heard shots fired. Courtney was shot

867
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 1: on Chicago's northwest Side. It's a neighborhood called Belmont Craigan.

868
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 1: I went out there right after Courtney died, putting up posters,

869
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 1: knocking on doors, begging somebody to tell me something. We

870
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: knew that you'd already covered this ground, but now we

871
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 1: wanted to hit every single house between there and the

872
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 1: police station. We needed to find witnesses. Chaparl is going

873
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: to lead the way. Um, but how many cards do

874
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: you How many spots do you have? I got three,

875
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: I got the feats down. I got three spots. We

876
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: set out with a crew, a group of journalism students,

877
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: of course, use Chaparl, me and our producer, Bill so Chaparral.

878
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 1: We're in your van, the same one that you used

879
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: to haul Courtney and his buddies to basketball games as

880
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 1: they were growing up. And I noticed a strawberry air

881
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: freshener dangling from your rear view mirror, and this necklace

882
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 1: that belonged to Courtney. The necklace was us a medallion

883
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 1: that he had earned from world ventures. It reminds me

884
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 1: of him, and it makes me feel close to him.

885
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 1: So the first thing you wanted to show us the

886
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 1: police cameras near the station. But I knew that that camera,

887
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: that's the camera that rotates. Do you see all these

888
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: cameras boom boom boom. It's like Kadrean cameras right here,

889
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 1: and you tell me that you don't have any camera.

890
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 1: We drove over to the intersection of Grand and Central,

891
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 1: the police station where Courtney collapsed on the ground. We

892
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 1: put on our blinkers and we got out. It looks

893
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: like they still have his photo up. Check Bill and

894
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 1: are at the lighthole on the corner, and there was

895
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 1: a flyer with Courtney's face on it. It was one

896
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 1: of the reward posters I had put up more than

897
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 1: a year before. We went inside. Bill and I stood

898
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: on the side of the tree right outside the police station. Yeah,

899
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: his photo is still there. They were tearing them all down,

900
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: but I'm glad to see that this one it's still up.

901
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 1: It's him. It's been almost two years. Everything right now

902
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: is a mystery, everything because it's not just about police

903
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: killing black people, but it's also about them allowing them

904
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: to die to him that he was nothing but a

905
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:40,919
Speaker 1: niggle on the street who got shot. I feel that

906
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 1: sometimes you know, when you go through these situations, the

907
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 1: dead could no longer speak, so you have to do

908
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 1: it for them. Right in the middle of all of this,

909
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 1: a cop pools up behind us because he asks Bill,

910
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 1: if we got into an acci that we're good. You

911
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 1: know the reason why you guys are blocking traffic right?

912
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 1: Her son died right here, right, and so we're I

913
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 1: feel bad for that, but I mean, you guys could

914
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 1: have parked over here this way. You're not gonna what

915
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: are your sofa? Move out the way, don't block traffic.

916
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 1: We called it a day rush, bro. Thank you everybody,

917
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 1: so bods every day Nobody's nothing, no body right. Somebody

918
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: is a co production of The Invisible Institute, The Intercept,

919
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,919
Speaker 1: Topic Studios, and I Heart Radio in association with Tenderfoot TV.

920
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 1: I'm Chaparral Wells. This podcast is produced by Alison Flowers

921
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: and Bill Heally. Sarah Guice is our story editor. Ellen

922
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 1: Glover is our associate producer for The Invisible Institute. Jamie

923
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 1: Calvin is executive producer for Topic Studios. Maria Zuckerman, Christie Gressman,

924
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: and Letyle Mallard are executive producers. Special thanks to Lizzie

925
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 1: Jacobs for the intercept. Roger Hodge, Deputy Editor, is supervising producer.

926
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 1: Sound designed by Carl Scott and Bart Warshaw. Michael Raphael

927
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 1: is our mixed engineer. Our theme song, Everybody's Something is

928
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 1: by Chance the Rapper. Original music for the podcast by

929
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 1: Nate Fox of The Social Experiment and Eric Butler. Additional

930
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 1: reporting by Sam Stecklow, Annie When, Khari Blackburn, Ray, Jef Sinclair,

931
01:06:55,440 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 1: Henry Adams, Matilda Voyat, Dana Brozos, Kelleher for Answers, McDonald,

932
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:06,960
Speaker 1: Diana Archmagian, Maddie Anderson, Andrew Fan and Rissa a pin Taku.

933
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:12,959
Speaker 1: Translation support by Benny Hernandez Ocampo and Emma Prez. Fact

934
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:17,000
Speaker 1: checking by Noah Are Jenny Special thanks to Chris Rasmussen,

935
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:23,040
Speaker 1: Bennett Epstein, Matt Topic, David Bralow, and Julie Wolf. We

936
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 1: want to hear from you. Email us at info at

937
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 1: Somebody podcast dot com or leave us a voicemail at

938
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 1: seven seven three to seven zero zero one two one.

939
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 1: To learn more about this case and for links to

940
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 1: additional materials, go to our show page at Somebody podcast

941
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find a list of everyone

942
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: we want to thank. There so many people helped us

943
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 1: along the way,