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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh,

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Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and Jerry's here and this is stuff

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Speaker 1: you should know. The True Crime EDITIONE where nobody gets hurt.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that amazing? Yeah? I think this falls into our

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Speaker 1: sort of caper a dish, yes, well put, well put?

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Speaker 1: Do we have any other capers? Yeah, like the child

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Speaker 1: Chilla kidnapping. And I think any non murder crime podcast

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Speaker 1: I think would fall under this, like dB dB Cooper exactly.

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Speaker 1: And um, before I forget Chuck, that was definitely a caper.

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Speaker 1: Good call. Um. This was a request which, like you

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Speaker 1: said last time, we've been doing a lot of these lately,

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Speaker 1: but this one's requested by Nick Hales, and I say,

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Speaker 1: good request, Nick, Thanks for that. And I totally spaced

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Speaker 1: on shouting out Neil Stephen from the UK for Georgia

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Speaker 1: Guidestones episode. He requested it and gave me the idea

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Speaker 1: to do it all right, nice work. This one was

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Speaker 1: so familiar to me that I was sure that we

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Speaker 1: had either touched on it or that I saw. What

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Speaker 1: I really thought was that I saw a documentary about it,

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Speaker 1: but I hadn't because I don't think there's been one.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. It was really familiar

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Speaker 1: with some other I think true life thing that I saw.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. But the fact that

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Speaker 1: there's not a movie about this is insane. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's a movie worthy. Oh really yeah?

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Speaker 1: Oh man, just like the pork Chop side Burns alone,

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Speaker 1: I think would would warn a movie. But um that

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Speaker 1: because I said pork chop sideburns. Of course, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about nineteen eighty, right, Chuck, August eight, that's right. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And on August eighty, very early in the morning, a

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Speaker 1: couple of delivery dudes would be delivery dudes wield a

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Speaker 1: big piece of equipment had a cover on it, said

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Speaker 1: IBM into Harvey's Resort hotel in Lake Tahoe, Nevada. Shout

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Speaker 1: out to our buddy, Aaron Hagar representing Lake Tahoe. He's

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Speaker 1: got it made out there in Tahoe. Nice except for

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Speaker 1: the bears and wildfires. I'll bet he's heard of this story, then,

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Speaker 1: I bet you he has. We'll hear from on this.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, they wheeled it in there up to the

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Speaker 1: second floor offices and dropped it off and basically skidaddled.

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Speaker 1: After that, they had a guy waiting in a van

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Speaker 1: outside and drove them the heck out of there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's kind of weird five am to drop off

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Speaker 1: a piece of office equipment, not waiting around for anybody

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Speaker 1: sign it. Kind of odd, And within an hour the

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Speaker 1: oddity behind it kind of became a really apparent. A

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Speaker 1: slot manager, I believe, or maybe the night manager in general. Um,

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Speaker 1: he noticed this piece of office equipment that was kind

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Speaker 1: of randomly placed on the second floor offices, and he

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Speaker 1: saw that there was a note by it, and he

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Speaker 1: gathered some other employees and they were all kind of

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Speaker 1: hanging out reading the note. And one of the details

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Speaker 1: I love, um that I saw in a um Adam

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Speaker 1: higginbottom Uh article on on the atavist um was that

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Speaker 1: one of the people reading the note was leaning up

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Speaker 1: against the machine while they were reading the note. All right,

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Speaker 1: the notes that should we read the note? Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: then it makes the whole thing about somebody leaning up

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Speaker 1: against it really hilarious. Al Right, stern warning to the

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Speaker 1: management and bomb squad, in which case I would have

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Speaker 1: been out of there. That's all I need to hear

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Speaker 1: a right exactly. Uh, do not move until this bomb

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Speaker 1: because the mechanism controlling the detonators in it will set

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Speaker 1: it off at a movement of less than point o

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Speaker 1: one of the open end Richter scale. So let's confuse

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Speaker 1: people right out of the gate, is what this note

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Speaker 1: is what this guy's thinking. Uh, don't try to flood

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Speaker 1: or gas the bomb. There's a float switch and an

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Speaker 1: atmosphere pressure switch set at two numbers twenty six point

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Speaker 1: zero was zero to thirty three. Both are attached to detonators.

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Speaker 1: Do not try to take it apart. The flathead screws

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Speaker 1: are attached to triggers, and as much of a quarter

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Speaker 1: to three quarters of a turn will cause the explosion. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In other words, this bomb is so sensitive that the

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Speaker 1: slightest movement, either inside or outside will cause it to

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Speaker 1: explode full stop. Yeah, and you can guess the person

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Speaker 1: leaning against the machine stood up and moved away from it, right,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Uh. And basically they said that part No

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Speaker 1: one can detonate or no one can can deactivate this bomb,

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Speaker 1: not even I, not even the creator can diffuse this thing.

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Speaker 1: So it is going to go off at some point.

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Speaker 1: Your best hope of not getting hurt is to pay

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Speaker 1: a three thousand dollar ransom and you're gonna receive instructions

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Speaker 1: on how to move it out of here so it

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Speaker 1: can explode somewhere else. Yeah, and it would have been

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Speaker 1: a bargain for three thousand dollars. There was actually a

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Speaker 1: three million dollar rans to save you did. I think

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Speaker 1: you're being optimistic three But it was a it was

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Speaker 1: a big fat ran and um the bomb itself. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you just look at the at the ransom note

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Speaker 1: and when it's talking about the bomb, that's a pretty

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Speaker 1: amazing bomb. And it actually became pretty legendary with the FBI,

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Speaker 1: so much so that I saw that they still I

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Speaker 1: don't know if they still do today, but for many

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Speaker 1: years they used it as a teaching model for UM

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Speaker 1: bomb technicians, and the FBI considered it very sophisticated, and

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Speaker 1: they said it was unlike anything any bomb technician had

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Speaker 1: ever seen before. No one had ever made a bomb

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Speaker 1: like this. Yeah, very good bomb, if there is such

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Speaker 1: a thing. Uh. It was a couple of stacked boxes

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Speaker 1: lined with metal and rubber that through conventional methods you

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Speaker 1: couldn't separate, of course, without it going boom. And so

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Speaker 1: the FBI did what they do in this case. They

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Speaker 1: come in, they start taking pictures, the X ray it,

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Speaker 1: they sweep it for fingerprints. Obviously they don't move it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They find out that it has about a thousand pounds

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Speaker 1: of dynamite inside, and they can't find a way to

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Speaker 1: Like basically they're saying, this note seems to be right

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Speaker 1: on the money, Like we can't find a way at

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Speaker 1: least right off the bat about how to diffuse these

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Speaker 1: things safely. Yeah, and very famously, the bomb technicians in

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Speaker 1: the room started running around in aimless circles saying, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, oh my god, oh my god. And they

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Speaker 1: did that for a good three hours I think before

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Speaker 1: somebody stepped in and stopped them. But that ransom note, also, UM,

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Speaker 1: showed a lot of planning, not just the bomb, Like

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Speaker 1: this bomb was amazing, just full stop amazing. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to really be proud of if you're a bomb maker, UM.

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Speaker 1: But the actual heist itself had like a real shot

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Speaker 1: at extorting this three million dollars successfully UM. And it

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Speaker 1: started with UM. They they knew what they were doing.

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Speaker 1: Out of the gate, they said, we want three million

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Speaker 1: dollars in used bills, hundred dollar bills already used, not marked,

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Speaker 1: not bugg don't even try to chemically treat them. Um.

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Speaker 1: And we want you to fly helicopter to Lake Tahoe Airport,

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Speaker 1: have the pilot land by the pay phone, and wait

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Speaker 1: by the payphone for instructions. Are instruction is going to

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Speaker 1: come from the payphone? Who knows? They could also come

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Speaker 1: by taxi. Uh, they could also come by carrier pigeon.

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Speaker 1: I'm making that last one up. But they were just

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Speaker 1: trying out of the gate to to confuse them so

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Speaker 1: that they couldn't plan for everything. Um. And it was

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Speaker 1: I think it was a really well planned heist. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean they basically said, no one involved from this

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Speaker 1: point that you meet up with, like anyone that might

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Speaker 1: deliver a note, any someone that might drive a vehicle

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Speaker 1: that's involved, Like, no one's gonna know anything, so don't bother.

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Speaker 1: And I think I believe that that's probably true. Um.

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Speaker 1: They said that the you know, I the creator of

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Speaker 1: the bomb, I'm not gonna be a part of this

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Speaker 1: money drop. I'm not gonna be around. Uh. Nobody that's

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Speaker 1: a part of any of this exchange of money is

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Speaker 1: going to know anything about how to diffuse this bomb, Like,

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Speaker 1: this thing is gonna go off and there's nothing you

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Speaker 1: can do to stop it. Again, the only thing that

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Speaker 1: you can do is follow what will ultimately be six

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Speaker 1: sets of instructions to safely get this bomb out of

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Speaker 1: there after I get my loot. Yeah, after he gets

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Speaker 1: the loot or they um, So the first set of

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Speaker 1: instructions was going to be given to the helicopter pilot.

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Speaker 1: The rest of the instructions would arrive through the local

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Speaker 1: post office, which is putting a lot of a lot

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Speaker 1: of faith in the USPS. But then there was another

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Speaker 1: demand too, that was probably the most ridiculous demand of all.

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Speaker 1: They said that all news media, local or national was

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Speaker 1: to be kept ignorant of the heist until the bomb

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Speaker 1: was successfully removed. Right, And that was impossible, totally impossible

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Speaker 1: because the first thing the cops did when they realized

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Speaker 1: like this is for real, which they figured out pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: I think the thing was discovered before six am, and

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Speaker 1: by seven or eight at the very latest, they were

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Speaker 1: rousing um hotel guests at Harvey's Um, many of them

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Speaker 1: from sleep, telling them like, Nope, you don't have time

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Speaker 1: to grab your belongings. You gotta go. Uh. And not

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Speaker 1: only did they evacuate Harvey's. A thousand pounds of dynamite

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Speaker 1: can do some real damage, they actually evacuated hairs across

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Speaker 1: the street from Harvey's too. Yeah, so they said, you're

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Speaker 1: all going to go to this nearby high school. And

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Speaker 1: of course the media, it's a it's a big thing

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Speaker 1: when that happens, when people are being like massively bust

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Speaker 1: out in their bathrobes and stuff. So basically within a

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Speaker 1: few hours, like all the media knows this, they cordon

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Speaker 1: off the area. There's people hanging out, there's there's gawkers,

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Speaker 1: there's reporters, there's before you know it, of course, because

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Speaker 1: there's casinos around there. They're taking bets, of course, like

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Speaker 1: over under on whether this thing's gonna detonate. And not

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Speaker 1: only did they not keep the media out of it,

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Speaker 1: but it became like, uh, I mean, call this sensation

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Speaker 1: indicates that it drug on. It was like a day

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Speaker 1: and change, but it was a crazy day and change

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Speaker 1: for the media for sure. And it was over the

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Speaker 1: week before Labor Day weekend, so Tahoe was crawling with people.

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Speaker 1: Um and this was right, um, just thirty six years

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Speaker 1: before the first casino was opened on the south shore

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Speaker 1: of Lake Tahoe, and it was opened by the same

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Speaker 1: guy whose hotel now how to bomb in it, Harvey

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Speaker 1: gross Um. His first thing was Harvey's Wagon Wheel Saloon

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Speaker 1: and gambling hall, which I saw described as a cabin

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Speaker 1: um that had six slot machines in it. Um And

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Speaker 1: at the time in Tahoe chucked. There was no phone,

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Speaker 1: no water, no sewer, no power lines. The roads would

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Speaker 1: close at like the first sign of snow, um and

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Speaker 1: it was like a real podunk area. But gambling made

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Speaker 1: it actually put it on the map for a second there.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say, not a single luxury.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, I really should have. I wish I had.

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Speaker 1: I'm not on my game today like Robinson Crusoe. They

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Speaker 1: were what primitives can be, right, that's what they said.

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Speaker 1: But it was the sixties. You wouldn't say that anymore. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So things go great for Harvey and his little wagon

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Speaker 1: wheel uh cabin You know, it's on the state line

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Speaker 1: of California. So that's a pretty smart thing because you

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Speaker 1: get those out of staters, those richies from California throwing

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Speaker 1: down some money. Yeah, and it was so on the

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Speaker 1: state line it was in a town called state Line.

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Speaker 1: That's very Nevada. It's very on the nose. I'm so

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Speaker 1: nervous about us saying it the right way because those

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Speaker 1: people will email you like Gangbusters. Oh it's Nevada, but

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Speaker 1: always say Nevada. Okay, but they say it Nevada. Everyone

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Speaker 1: outside the state of Nevada says Nevada, and that drives

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Speaker 1: them nuts, drives them crazy. It's really something so Harvey

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Speaker 1: no less way, don't break. So Harvey was doing great,

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Speaker 1: uh with this little tiny casino in the forties through

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Speaker 1: the fifties makes a lot of dough, and by sixty

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Speaker 1: three had expanded an upgrade to Harvey's Lake Tahoe, which

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Speaker 1: at the time was the tallest building UM at eleven stories,

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Speaker 1: which is you know, that's a pretty tall building for

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Speaker 1: that area of the country. Yeah, less than twenty years

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Speaker 1: he went from a cabin to an eleven story casino resort.

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Speaker 1: And I believe it was at that same eleven story

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Speaker 1: casino resort that this bomb um was placed in in

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Speaker 1: seventeen years later. Um and Harvey himself was like, I

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Speaker 1: mean he was a casino owner in Nevada, like he

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Speaker 1: had I don't want to say, a checkered past, but

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Speaker 1: he had a past like he'd been hauled in front

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Speaker 1: of the the I R S for tax evasion. There was

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Speaker 1: um he had been given an honorary name by the

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Speaker 1: Nevada Inner Tribal Did I say it right? Nevada? By

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Speaker 1: the Nevada Inner Tribal Council. He was called Chief hu

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Speaker 1: and I. And there was an article that was written

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Speaker 1: back in I think that said that it meant, uh,

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Speaker 1: the man who runs the game and takes a percentage

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Speaker 1: of the bats. I don't know if that's a joke

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Speaker 1: or not. I can't tell. I don't either, because it's

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Speaker 1: definitely like that era kind of joke. You know, you

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Speaker 1: can see that on like a tiky napkin. But the

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Speaker 1: long and short of it is he was he'd had

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Speaker 1: his little run ins with the I R S and

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Speaker 1: stuff and the gaming board, but it wasn't anything unusual.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't like some bad guy like mafios type. He

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Speaker 1: was like he said, he owned a casino and there's

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Speaker 1: you know, he's gonna be brought up by the I

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Speaker 1: R S at some point. Um. But all of this

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Speaker 1: to say, he wasn't like some uh, some big Mark

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Speaker 1: because of like all his dirty dealings in his past.

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Speaker 1: Basically I saw him actually referred to as a good

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Speaker 1: guy by some people. It sounds like it like he

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Speaker 1: he was well known to have put off expansion, like

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Speaker 1: he didn't want to expand to other towns. Uh. He's

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Speaker 1: basically said, I'm I'm making enough money. He had a

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Speaker 1: quote that he would refer to is, um, I have

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Speaker 1: a nice little business. How many stakes can I eat?

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Speaker 1: Which is to say like he had everything he needed

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Speaker 1: and this was fine. He was happy with this business

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Speaker 1: where it was. That's right. But it was uh, the

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Speaker 1: seventies and into the early eighties, which was um, just

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Speaker 1: sort of the golden age of all this kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff of kidnappings and ransoms and hijackings, and it just

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Speaker 1: seems like all this kind of hi jinks. There's still

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Speaker 1: stuff like that happens occasionally, but not like it did

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Speaker 1: back then. I think it's because took the police state

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Speaker 1: hadn't evolved enough that they would catch you no matter

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Speaker 1: what right, and leaded gas had been around long enough

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Speaker 1: to really have the effects on a whole new generation

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Speaker 1: of brains. So you put those two things together, you

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Speaker 1: have everything converging on the seventies for people trying all

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Speaker 1: sorts of heists and kidnappings and stuff like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that happened back then around there, even I think

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Speaker 1: as far back as the early seventies there were kidnapping

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Speaker 1: conspiracies against gross ransom things that had been uncovered in

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Speaker 1: the late seventies. There were smoke bombs with ransom notes

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Speaker 1: found at other casinos around Tahoe. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: about that. It was what the smoke bombs? Yeah, what

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Speaker 1: is that? You might as well say, like there's a

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Speaker 1: box of sparklers in your your lobby, give me five

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand smoleans orrel give me thirty five cents, I know,

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Speaker 1: to pay me back for the smoke both. Um. So

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Speaker 1: it was a time where if you owned a casino

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Speaker 1: that brought in I think he made about four million

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Speaker 1: profit but brought in like seventy million dollars a year

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Speaker 1: like his did, then that simply just meant you were

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Speaker 1: a mark by virtue of that fact alone, right. Um.

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Speaker 1: The thing is, though, is the FBI found out um

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Speaker 1: as they started investigating the case about a year after that,

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Speaker 1: it actually was a personal vendetta against Harvey himself. Or

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Speaker 1: Harvey's casino that led to that bomb being placed there

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Speaker 1: in August of m It sounds like a great cliffhanger

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Speaker 1: for a break. Thank you, thanks man. All Right, we'll

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Speaker 1: get back to it right after this. All right, So

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Speaker 1: we're back in action here at the bomb site. The

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Speaker 1: FBI's bomb squad is working hard trying to figure this

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Speaker 1: thing out. They have another team working on a fake

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Speaker 1: ransom drop. UH Special Agent William john Kie basically told Harvey, hey, listen,

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Speaker 1: why don't we drag this thing out as much as

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Speaker 1: we can. We'll do a fake payoff arrangement maybe weekend,

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Speaker 1: just sort of put off this bomb going off long

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Speaker 1: enough for us to figure it out, either how to

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Speaker 1: stop it or how to catch these people. Like the

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Speaker 1: bomb is going to go off no matter what. And

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Speaker 1: once uh Gross heard that, he was like, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: not paying anything if this thing's going off no matter what.

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Speaker 1: You can use my my god, you can use my

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Speaker 1: own helicopter for the drop even And that's what they did.

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Speaker 1: They used his own personal helicopter, but the pilot was

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Speaker 1: uh fed and there was another fed with a gun

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Speaker 1: hiding behind the pilot seat with a suitcase full of

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Speaker 1: mostly fake money. Yeah, I think a few grand is

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Speaker 1: what I saw. And just like the ransom note said,

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Speaker 1: the agent flew the helicopter Lake Tahoe Airport, landed next

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Speaker 1: to the pay phone UM and got there just in

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Speaker 1: time from what I saw too, for the phone to

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Speaker 1: start ringing, although I suspect they were being watched, and

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Speaker 1: the phone rang and rather than giving them instructions over

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Speaker 1: the phone, I think it's hilarious that they said, look

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Speaker 1: underneath the phone. There's instructions tape beneath the phone, and

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Speaker 1: then I guess hung up. We didn't want to tape

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Speaker 1: it to the front of the phone booth, right, So

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Speaker 1: he checks out the instructions and it says, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is what you're gonna do. You're gonna fly west along

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Speaker 1: the I wait for fifteen minutes from the airport, and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna turn. There's some compass sitting they told him

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Speaker 1: to turn toward. I've never found which one, UM. And

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00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,960
Speaker 1: then after a certain amount of time he should start

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Speaker 1: looking for a beacon, which is gonna be a strobe

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Speaker 1: light in a field. He should land there and that's

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Speaker 1: where the money drop would happen. And so the pilot

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Speaker 1: took off, and he did exactly as the thing instructed,

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Speaker 1: as a ransom note instructed, and there was nothing. He

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00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,439
Speaker 1: flew around for forty five minutes, just waiting, hoping, I

330
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Speaker 1: guess probably came close to running out of gas. And

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Speaker 1: then he flew back to the Lake Tahoe Airport and

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Speaker 1: went back to the pay phone in case they called

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Speaker 1: to say, like, what the heck is going on? And

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Speaker 1: they never did call, actually, so the money drop never happened.

335
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Speaker 1: I wonder. The FED takes off and he's got the

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Speaker 1: other FED behind him hiding with a gun, and he's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: how do you think this guy knows how far we're

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Speaker 1: going to be in fifteen minutes? And the other FED

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00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 1: went beats me, and that's exactly what happened. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: it's at this point in the store where we will

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Speaker 1: introduce you to the guy behind the whole thing, uh,

342
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Speaker 1: And we'll learn more about him later. But his name

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Speaker 1: was John Waldo Burgess, Sr. And that was one of

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Speaker 1: the key mistakes he made. He kind of botched this

345
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Speaker 1: money drop because he, uh, he should have said miles,

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Speaker 1: like fly so many miles or fly to this destination.

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Speaker 1: He just said fly for fifteen minutes uh, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know if he put at like at an average

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Speaker 1: rate of speed for your helicopter. Right. But the long

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Speaker 1: insure of it is they didn't know after he had

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00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 1: flown fifteen and that's exactly where he was going to

352
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,439
Speaker 1: end up. And they were like, well that stinks. And

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Speaker 1: this is after they had forgotten the battery to the

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Speaker 1: Strobe light. Right, they left it in Fresno. They eventually

355
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Speaker 1: got one. Yeah, they left it at their at their place.

356
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Speaker 1: They eventually got one. Uh. They tried to break into

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Speaker 1: an autopod store to get one and got chased off,

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Speaker 1: and then got one at a shell station. So they

359
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Speaker 1: had the Strobe. But by the time all this happens,

360
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Speaker 1: they don't even know where the helicopter is now. And

361
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,639
Speaker 1: that shell station also has its own hilarious story because

362
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Speaker 1: the gas station attendant they were trying to buy the

363
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,119
Speaker 1: battery from basically was like, why no, you need this

364
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 1: kind of battery for the Volvo that you have parked

365
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 1: outside that you're driving there, Like it doesn't matter what

366
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Speaker 1: kind of battery is for. He's like, well, yeah it does,

367
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Speaker 1: because Volvo won't take any battery. And they finally I

368
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Speaker 1: guess convinced him to just sell them a battery. And

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Speaker 1: he's like, fine, I guess that you're gonna find out

370
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Speaker 1: yourself that it's not gonna work. And they finally drove off.

371
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Speaker 1: That's how they got the battery. But they made it

372
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Speaker 1: to that drop point, which was twenty five miles away

373
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Speaker 1: from the airport, and um, they sat there and waited

374
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Speaker 1: and waited and waited and waited and waited. No helicopter.

375
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Speaker 1: No helicopter came. And the reason why is because they

376
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 1: were separated, separated by so many miles. They couldn't even

377
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,120
Speaker 1: hear the helicopter where it was. It was so far

378
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,199
Speaker 1: away from where they were at the drop site. All right,

379
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,880
Speaker 1: so this is botched. Back at the the bomb side

380
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,119
Speaker 1: the casino, this a full on party is going on

381
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 1: because it's a casino and people are just out of

382
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 1: their minds at those places. So the barricades are set up,

383
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Speaker 1: people are selling T shirts. I got bombed at Lake Tahoe.

384
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Speaker 1: I had a dynamite time at Lake Tahoe. Like that's

385
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 1: how quickly this thing was moving. And the bomb squad

386
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 1: team said, all right, here's what I think we should do.

387
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 1: Like they called this and they said, if we flip

388
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: switched number five. Then it'll buy some more time because

389
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 1: this thing isn't playing out quite right. But I don't

390
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 1: know if I trust that no one volunteered to flick

391
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 1: that switch like they felt basically, we should go on

392
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 1: our own, like with our own gut feeling on how

393
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: to do this, which is too basically blow this box apart,

394
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 1: but do it so quickly that it severs the relay switch,

395
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 1: like before the signal can reach the dynamite. Yeah, which

396
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: is pretty fast. And it was possible. They had They

397
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,879
Speaker 1: had some of like the greatest minds in the United

398
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: States who knew about bombs working on this problem, and

399
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 1: they designed a charge especially for this, and it was

400
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: built and brought to the site and put up and

401
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:13,239
Speaker 1: they said, this still has at best chance. But we

402
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: talked to the engineer, one of the engineers at Harvey's,

403
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: and he said, it probably won't bring the whole building down,

404
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 1: so let's give it a shot. And so, almost thirty

405
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: five hours after the bomb had been discovered, around three

406
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 1: pm the next day, a guy named Danny Daniel Um

407
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 1: was the person who volunteered to go take the charge

408
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: put it on the bomb exactly at the angle he

409
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: was told to put it at and then walked out

410
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 1: and started the countdown for the remote triggering. And remember

411
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 1: there are hundreds, if not thousands of people thronged together

412
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 1: to watch this to see if it worked. And when

413
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 1: they finally did, apparently they broadcast the radio the countdown

414
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: on like local radio, Chuck. And when they finally set

415
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 1: it off, that charge did not work the way it

416
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: was intended. No, it set off the bomb. Uh, the

417
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 1: entire thing went off, and it was, like we said,

418
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: it was a thousand pounds of dynamite. It created at

419
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 1: ft hole in the ground in the middle of this casino,

420
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: shooting shrapnel everywhere, obviously shooting cash and chips everywhere, which

421
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 1: is obviously problematic. They said there were TV sets swinging

422
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: on cords, toilets hanging by the pipes. It was a huge,

423
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: massive explosion in the middle of a casino. And because

424
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: it's a casino and because it's Tahoe, it was not

425
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: very long afterward that the surrounding casinos got right back

426
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: to business, and it didn't take too long, a couple

427
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: of days before Harvey's got back to business. UH. With

428
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: what was left of the casino, they put glass around

429
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: it and was kind of like, hey, come see the

430
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: bomb hole and and gamble some and what's the FBI

431
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: work on this crime scene? That's that just took place.

432
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: So one of the other great details of the story

433
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: for me is that the bandits didn't know that the

434
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: bomb had been detonated, and so a few minutes after

435
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: the bomb went off, they called the local sheriff's office

436
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: and said, we'll be calling back in one hour to

437
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: arrange another payment drop he said, whatever. Yeah, kids. You

438
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: imagine like the person who took the call being like, oh, yeah, great, okay,

439
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: we'll talk to you in an hour. Yeah. Yeah. So

440
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 1: that didn't matter. Harvey Gross Uh was very sad. He

441
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 1: just cried when he saw the damage. Um, eighteen million

442
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: dollars worth of damage. Uh. And you know, we'll tell

443
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 1: you what ultimately happened later. But um, they got back

444
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 1: to business, like I said, And I guess we should

445
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,959
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about who this mastermind was.

446
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 1: I agree, Chuck, and I say, before we start talking

447
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 1: about the mastermind behind the plot, we take a break,

448
00:24:49,200 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: all right, let's do it. So we already revealed who

449
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: it was, a guy named John Burgess sr Um and

450
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: his son wrote a book later that I saw. He

451
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: called the publisher to find out how many copies have

452
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: been sold at the time, and they told him zero.

453
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: But in this book, uh, he depicts his dad is

454
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: not a very nice guy. He was an abusive husband,

455
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: physically abusive, a really terrible dad. Um. He liked to

456
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: emotionally blackmail his family by threatening to take his life

457
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: by suicide. Um. And he was an actual Nazi, like

458
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: a genuine Nazi. Just to just to put the cherry

459
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 1: on top of everything. Yeah, he flew for the Luftwaffa

460
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: and uh spent eight years in a Soviet prison camp

461
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: before coming to America and becoming a multimillionaire. So it

462
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: kind of ended up okay for him. He had a

463
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 1: landscaping business in Fresno that apparently did really, really well.

464
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: But he also liked to gamble a lot and lost

465
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: a ton of money over the years. Uh. I think

466
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: about seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars they had estimated

467
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: that he lost. I think at Harvey's alone, right, I

468
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: think that was the whole shebang, But most of that

469
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: was at Harvey's. That was my take on it, Okay,

470
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: And and we do need to put a pin in

471
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: something else, is that years before, uh, he had a business,

472
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: a restaurant that it was pretty clear that he burned

473
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: down for the insurance money, got a three d and

474
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: fifty five thousand dollars from that and gambled that away. Yeah,

475
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: he was that kind of guy, right. So the heist itself,

476
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: it was, um, it was an attempt to make back

477
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: some of the money that the house had taken from

478
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: him over the years that he felt bitter about. But

479
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: also the reason that he targeted Harvey's, they later found out,

480
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: was that on some New Year's Eve a few year

481
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 1: or two before, he had been given the high Roller suite.

482
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: That's how often he gambled at Harvey's, Like he was

483
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: well known there, um, but he had amassed such a

484
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: debt that they actually took him that evening out of

485
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: the high Roller suite and put him in a regular room,

486
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: much to his great humiliation. Yeah, I mean that was

487
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: pretty much why he very at least why he targeted Harvey's.

488
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: They he he considered that quite a a loss of

489
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: pride because I guess he was with a date and

490
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: the date was like, I thought you said you were

491
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: a big time which didn't make it any better. So

492
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: that's why Harvey's got targeted in particular, that's right. And

493
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: they put Aaron Hagar in that swite instead, they did,

494
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: and everything was right with the world, that's right. Uh So,

495
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 1: actually Aaron's he's about mate. So he would have been

496
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: a kid back then, or maybe they did. He could

497
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: have been high rolling and he was like a nine

498
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: year old like running the show in that gambling room.

499
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: I could totally see it. So, uh we mentioned he

500
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: was Burgess Senior. There was a Burgess Jr. He had

501
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 1: a couple of sons, John Jr. And Jimmy who were

502
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: twenty and eighteen respectively, and then Jimmy or wait was

503
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: was Ella Williams the seniors girlfriend? Yes, okay, so you

504
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: had a girlfriend named Ella Williams who were also in

505
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: on it. In these two numb skulls who delivered the bomb,

506
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: named Bill Brown and Terry Hall. The FBI later said

507
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: after they caught Bill Brown, they described him or no,

508
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: it was from um a report like somebody who witnessed

509
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: the bomb being delivered. They said one of them was

510
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: a hay seed, a real goober type. That's how they

511
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: described Bill Brown. And it's sad for Bill Brown and

512
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: Terry Hall Chuck because they got a total of bucks.

513
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: But it wasn't until after they were driven away early

514
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: that morning that they were told what they'd just done.

515
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: They did not know that they were delivering a bomb

516
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: until after they delivered the bomb. Isn't that terrible? Yeah?

517
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: I mean they they were probably just soldier some money

518
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: go deliver this thing. There was a lot of money,

519
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. Yeah, And I'm Burgess Jr. Just totally

520
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: misled him, which is another mark against that guy. All Right,

521
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: So spinning back a little bit, when they hatched this plan, Uh,

522
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: the first thing he did was go out and get

523
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: all this dynamite which they stole from a power plant

524
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: in California and stashed it in their walk in freezer

525
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: in their garage and started building this bomb. And no

526
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: one That's kind of one of the mysteries of this

527
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: case is it was such a sophisticated device and no

528
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: one still really knows how this guy managed to build

529
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: this thing. Uh, if he had help, if he was

530
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: just this bomb genius that no one knew about. It

531
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: was just super smart and did his research. But uh,

532
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: no one really knows how he managed to build such

533
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: a sophisticated bomb. I mean, it's still not clear. I

534
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: don't think anybody will ever know he just did it.

535
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: And what's crazy is, um, John Burgess might have gotten

536
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: away with the whole thing. Uh. The FBI did not.

537
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: They were not on him and Ashley. They interviewed something

538
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: like five suspects in the whole case. And Um, there

539
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: were two things that seemed to have brought Burgess down.

540
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: One was a hotel owner who was the night manager

541
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: of the hotel that Burgess, Brown and Hall stayed up

542
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: before they planted the bomb. Her name was Nancy Domenico,

543
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: and she found those three suspicious enough that she wrote

544
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: down their license plate on their van, make, model, color,

545
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: and the license plate number, UM, and just kept it

546
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: on file just in case. And it turned out that

547
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: that would become really important later on. And then the

548
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: other factor was John Burgess Jr. Had a really loud mouth.

549
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: It turns out, yeah, he had a girlfriend leading up

550
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: to the event, and he would just brag all about

551
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: this thing. They break up. You never think about the

552
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: breakup side of things when you're when you're spilling your

553
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: innermost thoughts. Uh. And she has a new boyfriend tells

554
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: him all about this guy I dated before you that

555
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: told me all about this bomb plot. Uh. The new

556
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: boyfriend calls in the FBI tip. So now they have

557
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: a couple of tips pointing to these dudes. Uh. They

558
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: tracked down the van that the um Nancy Domenico had

559
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: reported as shady, and it was a van that was

560
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: registered to the restaurant that Burgess Senior allegedly had burned down.

561
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: So that's where that comes back into play. Yeah, so

562
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: they're like, okay, let's go interview John Burgess Senior. And

563
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: John Burgess Senior says, oh, John Jr. Was driving the

564
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: van justly gave us the immediately. Yeah, I mean, like

565
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: that first interview, said him, probably said here's his address.

566
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: Hopefully at least called his son to give him a

567
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: heads up. I don't know. But they went over and

568
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: they interviewed John Jr. And he said, yes, I was

569
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: around Tahoe at the time. Yes, I was with my van,

570
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: but I was looking for places to plant marijuana. And

571
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: you know that's true because I've just admitted to a

572
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: crime to the FBI, right right, And apparently the FBI

573
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: didn't didn't really buy it. They said like, this story

574
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: is awful, but he's stuck to it and they didn't

575
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: have anything else they could get him on right then,

576
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: but he was definitely on their radar from that point forward.

577
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: I thought, it's a pretty good story to be put

578
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: on the spot. Personally, Well, well, it didn't work, but

579
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: like to admit to another crime, I was like, right,

580
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: all right, not bad, I'll give you that part, the

581
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: part of the FBI. The FBI was like, you're you're kidding, right,

582
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: he said, the battery died, so I abandoned the van.

583
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,959
Speaker 1: Somebody must have taken it and used it in the

584
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: crime and then brought it back while I was away

585
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: from the van, right well, which is a long way

586
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: of saying was it wasn't me, right exactly. Uh So

587
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: they you know, they do what they do in the movies.

588
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: They don't have enough hard evidence, so they spend a

589
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: year getting that evidence, building a case on a montage

590
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: with a great like upbeat song where they're putting this

591
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: stuff together. Right. Sure, I don't know why John jr.

592
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: Uh and John SR. Are still in the country. I

593
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: would have been out of there so fast. Where would

594
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: you go? I'd leave the country. I know where where'd

595
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: you go? Oh, that's a really good question. Everyone just

596
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: always talks about like who would you have over for dinner?

597
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: Living or dead? Like where would you go if you

598
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: were guilty of a bombing blot? I mean it's got

599
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 1: to be a non extradition treaty country, right, So you're

600
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: looking at like Venezuela. I'd have to do my research then,

601
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: but yeah, I would go someplace with a beach and

602
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: uh and like a very quiet life, okay, yeah, and

603
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: then they just you know, they eventually show up at

604
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: the beach in the movie as well. So tie out

605
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: of your hands and your ex. Canada has beaches, sure,

606
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: lovely beaches. Not quite the beaches I was looking for, though,

607
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: You're welcome and chunk. Uh. So the FBI is getting

608
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: this evidence. Uh, they have rewards. I think like a

609
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: half a million bucks is about as high as the

610
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: reward went and fly. About a year later, they arrest

611
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: John Jr. And Jimmy and they say they dang a

612
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 1: little carrot in front of their faces, said how would

613
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: you like to how'd you like to turn on dad

614
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 1: and maybe get a little leniency And they went that jerk,

615
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: I'm happy to And that's exactly what they did, right,

616
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: and um, they turned other dad, they arrested their dad,

617
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: They arrested Ella Williams, Bill Brown, Terry Hall, and from

618
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: what we understand, every single person who had anything to

619
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: do with that was rounded up and one fell swoop basically,

620
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: and the convictions started coming out. Ella Williams got seven

621
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: years for her involvement. And she hasn't factored in hugely

622
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: into this podcast, but she was definitely an accomplished She

623
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: typed the ransom notes up. She Um, she did a lot.

624
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: I think she dropped some people off at the one

625
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: of the landing sites, like she was very much involved.

626
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: So she got seven years, but a judge later overturned

627
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 1: her conviction and I couldn't see why. But um, as

628
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: far as I know, she did not do any time

629
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: in prison, maybe beyond her trial. Yeah, I think the

630
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: sons did get that leniency. As for John SR. He

631
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: represented himself in court, cross examined his own sons. Eventually

632
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: got twenty years in federal prison and then I believe

633
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: life without parole in state prison. Yeah. His his um.

634
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: The big key to his defense was his sons had

635
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: given him a Father's Day car that said you're the

636
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: best dad around ten years before. It didn't work on

637
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: the jury, Sorry, how could I have done this? Um?

638
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: He served sixteen years, died in prison of cancer. But

639
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: then there's one final little potential twist here, right Yeah,

640
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: Um so John Burgess had talked to a reporter while

641
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: he was alive and he said, you know what, this

642
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: wasn't my idea. I was a patsy, I was a rube.

643
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: I got and I got dragged into this by a

644
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: loan shark. I owed sixty large two. That's that's what

645
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: you say when you're a gambler. And um, he recruited

646
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 1: me to plant this bomb, and that really the loan

647
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: shark was working on behalf of Harvey's top executives and

648
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: the mafia who were conspiring to blow the place up

649
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 1: so that they could collect the insurance money. Look at there,

650
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: you believe it? Not at all? No? Now, And like

651
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: the the the thing that just like completely proves it is, yeah,

652
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: they used insurance money to rebuild. It's like, no, that

653
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 1: doesn't prove anything. Of course you're going to use insurance

654
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: money to rebuild. It doesn't mean there is a conspiracy.

655
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: Is that place still there? Any idea? Yeah, it's still there. Um,

656
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: I think it's been updated even even more since then.

657
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, as far as I know, Harvey's is still there. Awesome.

658
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: I don't know why for the best two weeks, I

659
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: never thought to look that up me either. I'm almost

660
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: positive we'll have to leave it to Aaron Hagar to

661
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: tell us whether it's there or not. Sweet it is.

662
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: I'm looking at a picture of it. It's definitely been updated. Well,

663
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: while you're online, Um, why don't you look at eBay

664
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: and see if there's any like I got bombed at

665
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: Harvey's T shirts still around? Oh wow, Well, if there are,

666
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna tell you. I'm just gonna get you

667
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: one for Christmas. Fair enough. I like that a lot.

668
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: That's a good plan. Um. Well, since Chuck said what

669
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: he's gonna give me for Christmas and I realized, Man,

670
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: I've got to figure out what to get Chuck for Christmas,

671
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: it's time for listener mail. You just got me a

672
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: great record, which one? Oh the Bill Evans one? Yeah? Yeah,

673
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: do you like it? Have you listened to it yet?

674
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,399
Speaker 1: I love it? I mean it's Bill Evans, but it's

675
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: just yeah, it's it's good, very evocative, of changing in

676
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: the seasons, which I think was the whole point for sure.

677
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: I'm glad um all right, Hey guys. After listening to

678
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: the Introvert Extrovert episode, I thought i'd reach out because

679
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: Chuck at one point talked about finding ways to discipline

680
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: his child by removing fun activities. I remember saying that,

681
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: and but I guess you were so mad. You're like

682
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: frothing at the mouth. I've been ever heard you more angry.

683
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: You don't even really do that, so I'm not sure

684
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: if I may have been kidding or not. Anyway, I'm

685
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 1: a third grade teacher because this is like a tip here,

686
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: so we gotta read the tips. I'm a third grade

687
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: teacher on a reservation, and with sixteen kids in my class,

688
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: I have never had to use discipline. My classroom functions

689
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: like a well oiled machine. Due to a type of

690
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: behavior management known in the educational world as pb I

691
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: s positive behaviors and supports. It's a way to manage

692
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,919
Speaker 1: challenging child behavior solely solely through the use of using

693
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: praise and rewards. Can easily be applied in the context

694
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: of raising your own child, especially if you want to

695
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: raise a psychopath. This is a huge topic. And when

696
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: that's near and deeed in my heart, I thought it

697
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: might be incredibly useful for all the parents out there who,

698
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 1: like Chuck, struggle to find a way to manage their

699
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 1: child's behavior. You convention that discipline. Man, this guy's scoring

700
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: all over you, Chuck a little bit. And this is Anthony.

701
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 1: You guys rock. Thanks for all the wonderful knowledge and

702
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: hlarryst dialogue. Uh, I want to be super clear, Anthony,

703
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: we don't struggle to find a way to manage her behavior.

704
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: She's she's a good kid. And not to say the

705
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 1: kids who have trouble behaving are bad kids at all.

706
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: Everyone has their challenges as kids and parents. But um,

707
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 1: it's not too bad. And I don't know that this

708
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: pb I S would work necessarily in my household. But hey,

709
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: I mean we already do that kind of thing, but

710
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: I'll ramp it up and see if that helps run

711
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,439
Speaker 1: an experiment, Chuck in true s YSK fashion. Sure, I'm

712
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: curious though, because Anthony didn't say if Anthony had kids.

713
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: Because I will say that the way kids behave for

714
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: teachers is not at all related to how they behave

715
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: for parents. A lot of imagine. So yeah, I'm curious. Yeah,

716
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 1: if you guys listening out there, um try this. Let

717
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: us know if it works or what. And also, Anthony,

718
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: thank you very much for writing in Anthony. It was great.

719
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: Um So if want to be like Anthony, you can

720
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: write into two Stuff podcast at i heart radio dot com.

721
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of I heart Radio.

722
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart

723
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

724
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: favorite shows. H