WEBVTT - Steve Pratt of Pacific Content 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:07.040 Hey everybody, and welcome to another edition of Access Podcast. 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:10.520 I'm Maddie Stalt. This is your podcast about podcast and 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:14.040 today it is especially your podcast about podcast because we're 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:17.239 gonna kind of geek out and talk about branded content podcasting. 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:19.200 If you don't know what that is, or if you're 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.040 in general interested in the podcast business, this is definitely 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:24.400 the one for you. We've got the one in only 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:27.480 and I love him so much. He is everything that's 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:29.840 good about Canada. Steve Pratt on the show. He has 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.960 a principal at Pacific Content, the first branded content podcast 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.960 company in the world, and he's also the host of 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:39.960 a few podcasts, including one I Really love called Slack 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.320 Rody Pack check it out. When she was researching the 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.320 subject of happiness, she noticed a common pattern with the 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.800 people she was talking to. The people who are facing 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.520 a happiness challenge most often pointed to a habit as 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:56.000 the obstacle. He's not only the principle and co founder 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.160 of Pacific Content. I'd like to to think of him 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:00.360 as a friend and I'm gonna be honest a tour 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.600 Steve Pratt High, Steve, Hello, Maddie, how are you doing. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:07.560 I'm doing great? Pacific Content is not a company that 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.280 most people will know about because what you do is 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:14.840 something that is new for a lot of folks. Branded 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.440 content podcasting. You've done a lot of them. I just 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:20.479 think to start off, maybe we should just tell people 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.600 what what exactly is a branded content podcast? And are 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.240 we still calling them that or is their new name? Yeah, 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:29.880 it's it's it's it's interesting we started um calling them 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:34.840 branded podcasts UM up until and then we we've actually 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.399 changed the language to say that we make original podcasts 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:40.679 with brands. And it sounds like a very small difference, 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.200 but it's a fairly big one, uh, for a couple 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.319 of reasons. The core of the business is trying to 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:51.320 make fantastic shows that are funded by brands. And you know, 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:53.960 I think initially when you say branded content, there's probably 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:56.640 a connotation around ei they're trying to sell me something 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.280 or this is going to be heavy handed marketing, And basically, 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.240 change the language to original podcast with brands is that's 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:07.480 not what we're making. We are making shows that are 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.800 designed to be everybody's compelling as any of your other 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:12.880 favorite shows. That's kind of the only way that they'll 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:15.640 build an audience is if it's a great Joe, and 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.040 it's more around the idea that some of the most 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.519 interesting media companies in the future are going to be 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.000 non traditional places like brands, and some of your favorite 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.280 shows in the future are going to come from brands 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:30.360 that are going to be smart and start acting and 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.960 thinking more like media companies. UM. So, our job as 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.919 a company is to work with brands and help them 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:41.320 figure out how to map their brand and their strategy 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:44.880 into a show that people genuinely love and it is 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.000 an original show, not a piece of marketing. Let's talk 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.560 about a couple of the show so everybody understands what 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:52.959 exactly we're talking about. Let's start with the first one 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.840 that that I was aware of, and one of the 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:57.760 things that drew me to talk to you the first 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.920 time was Slack Variety Pack. Now tell people about that 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.600 show and and how it came about. Yeah, so, we're 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.200 all a bunch of ex traditional media people, mostly from 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.560 the Canadian public radio system, like the Canadian equivalent of NPR, 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.919 and we noticed a couple of interesting trends going on. 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.600 One that, UM, a lot of tradition media companies were 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.160 missing their ad revenue targets every year because people were 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:27.280 using you know, PVRs or DVRs to skip ads. Advertising 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.680 was moving into digital spaces where people couldn't skip things 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:33.760 as much. Um we're seeing the rise of companies like 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:38.040 Red Bull who were making really compelling original programming in 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.440 the video space that was not about their product or services, 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:43.200 but it was more about how it made you feel. 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.520 And then we also saw the rise of Serial kind 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.600 of notewhere in the podcasting space that was you know, 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:53.240 I think we saw the first ten years of podcasting 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:58.640 UM as almost like the democratization of the the publishing 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.440 tools and the distribution where anybody could make a podcast 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.680 for next to nothing. There were no gatepers anymore, and 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:08.080 I think the result was there's a lot of amazing shows, 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.560 and tons of people made shows that never would have 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:12.960 made shows, but the bulk of them were going to 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.880 be unedited interview shows. And Serial kind of changed the 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:21.359 game when that came out with this amazing, highly produced 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:27.880 narrative series that grabbed everybody's attention. And I think all 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.280 of those factors kind of lead to people thinking, you 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:34.120 know what, podcasts are have enormous amount of potential to 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:38.000 come Netflix for radio where people are going to choose 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.640 amazing high quality stuff on demand on their own schedule 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.960 and program their commutes and their workout and their dog 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.159 walks and whatever else they're doing. UM. So we we 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.039 kind of recognize that there's nobody doing that in the 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:57.600 audio space, and we literally just pitched slack we We 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.120 we kind of fin called a meeting with the CMO, 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.240 a guy named Bill Massitis when he was in Vancouver 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:07.919 for a meeting, and he was the first person we 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.000 pitched it too, and he said, yes, it was We 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.720 were just like, oh, holy moly, I can't believe this. 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:14.880 Now we have to figure out how to make this 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:19.159 show for slack um. And you know, we kind of 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:21.320 we kind of worked fairly collaboratively with them, but a 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:23.760 lot of it was kind of inventing it as as 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:25.960 we went and trying to balance this idea of like, 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.760 we need to figure out what Slacks voices an audio, 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.280 we need to figure out how to represent what they 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.760 stand for an audio, and we also need to make 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:37.920 a show that is really fun to listen to. And 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.440 I think it was one of the first examples of 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:44.880 of a brand going out doing a high quality storytelling 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.240 show that had interesting guests and stories in it. UM 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:49.960 and they got a lot of traction from it. So 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.640 from us, we were very fortunate to kind of connect 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.560 with a really progressive, smart company that wanted to take 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.680 a risk and do something like this, and because they 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:00.200 did it, it made it easier for us to get 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:01.960 a lot of other clients and to be able to, 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.520 you know, use Slack Variety Pack as a showcase for 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:06.920 what's possible for for brands and what the value is 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.960 of building a fairly large audience fairly quickly. So Slack 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:15.640 Variety Pack at the beginning. Now you guys have moved 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.279 on to how many shows now is specific content producing 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:22.000 for for brands? Uh, It's kind of it fluctuates. Uh. 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:24.440 I think right now we're about seven or eight shows 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.640 in production right now. Um, but you know we have 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.039 shows that are kind of in between seasons and onboard 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:34.039 new clients and things. So it does change. But it's 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.279 really interesting, Like every every year in the fall, it 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:41.359 seems like there's a new evolution of like the next 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:45.039 level of brands coming into the space and wanting to 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:49.599 make podcasts, and it's getting easier and easier to be 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.520 able to talk about making amazing shows with all the 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.680 clients too, Like I think in the first year we 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.240 were just wanting anybody to say yes so we could 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.440 prove the model and make podcasts and make this a thing. 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:06.320 And then last year around this time, we're you know, 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:10.080 having an influx of like some pretty big brands like 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:14.920 Prudential came in. UM we started mostly with tech companies 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:16.840 out of Silicon Valley, and then you know, when you 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:20.320 get somebody Prudential coming in, like a big insurance company, 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.960 it's like next level piece. And I think last year 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.200 the focus was on kind of growing better quality shows 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:33.720 and thinking about different formats of storytelling. And then for us, 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.440 it's really been around figuring out the audience development piece 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.640 with brands at a new level where you know, it's 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:43.280 it's kind of interesting when you think about it, but 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.360 brands have kind of a huge unfair advantage to be 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.120 able to build audiences really quickly because they have all 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:54.560 these built in strengths that they probably have not ever 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:58.280 used to build an audience for the show before. UM. 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.640 So we're just like, for example, we're doing show with Mozilla, 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:06.880 and when there's a new podcast episode, you can open 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.360 a new tab in Firefox and underneath the search bar 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:14.600 is a promo for the podcast and it's driving tons 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:17.000 and tons of listeners coming in, and you know it 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:18.840 wouldn't work it was if it was a bad show. 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.160 But it's a great show and they've got a tool 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.400 that they own, they're gonna let tons and tons of 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.680 people know about it. Um So has really been a 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.800 year for us around like keep making the show is better, 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.959 but like really think about how to go from zero 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.480 to a big audience really quickly with kind of like 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:40.679 the secret superpowers of every company we work with. I 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.880 want to switch gears and talk about about you, Steve, 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:46.480 my friend. This is this is where, this is where 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:48.160 it's gonna get boring. Well, now this is where I 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.160 get to you know, I've I wanna I'll just I 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:54.640 wanna tell everybody how I met you. I was writing 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:58.240 a paper for my graduate school class and I was, 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.080 you know, I teach a branded content class at the 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.360 university that I work at, and I've been in podcasting 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.880 for ten years, and I was like, hmm, I wonder 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.080 if anybody's doing branded content podcasting, And I, you know, 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.280 just did Google searches and there's one name in one 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.120 name only that popped up several times. It was Steve Pratt, 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.280 and I sent Steve an email and immediately we met 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.160 like a week later, and and and it's I'm so 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.560 glad I sent that email to start with. So this 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:26.240 is a good chance. I want to know. I don't 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:28.280 think I've ever gotten it really into to your story 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:30.959 about about your radio story. Um, you know we all 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.640 have that story of how we ended up in this 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.960 this messed up business. What did you start thinking about 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.320 radio as a career? And you know, we're we always 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:41.559 into it. Well, it's kind of interesting, like I, um, 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:46.040 I actually started my career in television. Um no, all right, 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.120 and this is but I ended up in radio. I 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:51.760 landed in radio after television, so it's I uh yeah. 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:54.480 I was oddly like in university, I was kind of 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.839 on track to go to law school and I've been 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:01.720 doing a bunch of calm and improv and stuff like 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:05.000 that when I was in university and was was loving it. 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.440 And then I kind of had this, you know, crisis. 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:10.040 I was saying, like, I don't think I really want 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.439 to be a lawyer. Um, I want to do something fun. 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:15.720 And I got a summer job at a TV station 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.800 in Toronto, and I was just totally hooked at being 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.960 able to go out and tell stories and you know, 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.280 do something that actually got a reaction from audiences, or 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.280 be able to kind of put a spin on a 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.040 story that made it fun and interesting and exciting to 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:34.640 listen to or watch. UM and I spent about ten 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:39.079 years doing all sorts of different television, from entertainment journalism 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:42.320 to comedy programming, two kids programming. I worked at a 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.800 music network called Much Music that was kind of like 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.400 the equivalent of MTV in Canada. I used to watch 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.000 Much Music. By the way, well there you go. So 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:51.840 we had it on, and we had it on in 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.280 the United States. It'd come on like weekends and stuff. 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.000 They'd have some shows on. But so yeah, yeah, So 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:59.000 I was really like got to work in a ton 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:02.880 of interesting places is with a ton of different programming 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:06.720 formats and different audiences, and everyone was kind of like 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:10.040 a new creative challenge to figure out what is it, 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.920 what's the you know, the way to reach this audience 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.480 and do something that's creative and fun for them that's 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:21.000 different than the last one I did. UM And then 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.839 after that I got a job at a O l UM. 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.160 I was really interested in this is around, you know 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.319 where when the Internet was blowing up and they were 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:33.160 doing some really interesting stuff with online only content. And 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.560 I've done a bunch of you know, digital stuff in 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.160 the TV side, but it was really more of a 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:43.840 secondary piece to TV, where the company's primary business with television, 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.240 and I wanted to go to a place where their 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:48.280 only business was the Internet and where they were doing 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:51.080 all sorts of really progressive, interesting stuff to figure out 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:56.319 audiences on the Internet. And I learned so much there, um, 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:00.160 just around what works and measuring different ideas and be 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:06.240 testing headloins and photos and all sorts of different things. Um. 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.199 And oddly enough, one of my old colleagues at Much 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:13.680 Music was at the Canadian Public Broadcaster and said to me, 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.400 you know, like I recommended you for this job running 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:22.600 this weird new music service at the Public Broadcaster because 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:26.120 it's a mix of traditional media and digital um. And 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.600 because I've done all the television and different formats and 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.880 worked at a music service, and then because I also 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.960 worked at a o L, I landed in this insanely 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:38.760 cool gig at a place called CBC Radio three, and 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.920 it was an online only music service that was launching 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:46.440 a satellite radio station on Sirius XM, and it was 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.800 only for new and independent Canadian artists, so if you're 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:52.440 an established artist, you couldn't get played. If you weren't Canadian, 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.920 you couldn't get played. Um. And it was the most 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.040 niche thing you could ever imagine. And in a way, 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.199 it was almost like a media lab where we got 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.480 to try out all sorts of cool ideas around building 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:09.439 communities and you know, trying different strategies for artists discovery. 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:13.560 And very soon after I started is when podcasting started. 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.800 You know, that Adam Curley Show was starting in I 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.440 first heard it in late two thousand four and I 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:23.560 started in fall of two thousand four, and we realized 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.760 that all these indie artists that we were playing owned 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.520 all their own rates, and that we could we should 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.120 try podcasting. Um. It would be an amazing way to 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:35.959 get music out to new people who are looking for podcasts, 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.760 and nobody else had the rights to put music out there. 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:41.840 So we launched one of the world's first music podcast 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:46.120 that was actually legal. And when they launched podcasting inside 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.000 of iTunes in I don't know, like May or June 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.080 of two thousand five, they featured this CBC Radio three 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:56.199 podcast worldwide and it just blew up. And it helps 0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:00.240 obviously that there's like ridiculously good independent Canadian music coming 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:01.680 out of that time. This is like in the early 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.440 days of Arcade, fire and Taking and Sarah and the 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.920 new pornographers and Feist and broken Social scene and all 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.920 this stuff. But anyways, a long story short. That was 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.880 a really long story. But I've been in podcasting for 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:15.880 for a long time as a result of all those 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.760 weird factors kind of coming together, and you know, it 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:21.920 was podcasting how a little bit of a dip in, 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.800 you know, after its initial few years of catching on fire. 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.080 I think Facebook and YouTube and Twitter kind of took 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.520 some of the fire and attention away from podcasting. And 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.200 it's kind of crazy that it's back and growing and 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:38.760 bigger than ever. And it's the most creative work I've 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.480 ever done right now, working with a really wide variety 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.720 of interesting clients and just an amazing group of storytellers. Here, 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.760 we're like really genuinely having an awesome time making really 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:53.000 fun shows. What is the deal with Canadian radio? Tell 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.600 me the rules? I somebody I was. I was in 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:59.080 Canada for a semester once um in in in college, 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.840 and you have to play a certain amount of Canadian music. 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:07.920 What is that? Yeah? So um and this is this 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.440 is so hard to try and describe to an American audience. 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:15.920 But uh, there is a big part of Canadian culture 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:20.960 that is um dominated by American culture. Where you know 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:24.640 we're right you know, we're right next to you. And 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.520 almost all the Canadian cities are right close to the 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:31.040 American border, uh, because you know, you go further north 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.400 and that it's too cold to exist. Um, So we 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:39.080 get all American TV stations, we get loads of American radio, 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:43.520 and as a result, it's really hard for Canadian artists 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.720 to stand out. And the government in Canada, on the 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:52.760 for Canadian broadcasters has a series of regulations called ken 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:57.320 Con rules, which is Canadian content um. And if you're 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.600 a radio station or if you're a TV station, you 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:03.120 have to create a certain amount of Canadian content if 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.520 you're like making shows, and if you're a radio station 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.080 playing music, you have to play a certain percentage of 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:13.320 Canadian music. And there's different tiers of Canadian music, like 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:17.200 you can only play this much hit Canadian music that 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:19.560 you actually have to play some emerging Canadian music. And 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:23.080 it's designed to help build a star system and help 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:28.040 expose Canadian artists to Canadians as well as you know 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:31.480 obviously around the world, but it's really focused on career 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:36.200 development for Canadians those very very unusual it doesn't exist 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.560 in America. I love it. I think it's great and 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:40.240 it's just one of those one of those things that 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.320 I always thought was it was really cool and I 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.720 think and I had no idea about your your first 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.520 podcast in doing Canadian music like that is you know, 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:53.560 those early days of podcasting. I sometimes forget that I've 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.280 been in the business for for ten years because it 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:58.360 really did feel at the beginning like we were gonna 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.080 like take over the world, and it was a no, 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:02.320 maybe not, and then Syrial came out, was like, hey, 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.560 we gonna take over the world, and then okay, maybe not. 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:06.720 And then but I feel like the last year and 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.440 a half two years there's been just just great progress. 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.800 What do you what do you see the future of podcasting? Uh? Going? 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.840 You know what, It's funny because it is it has 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.560 been now like thirteen years or something like that since 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:22.919 since they first came out. So when I say it 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:24.880 feels like a very young industry or it's in an 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:29.200 infant in its infancy. Um Like, it's it's weird to 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.200 say that, but I'm going to say that. I think 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.639 we're still in the very early stages of what podcasting 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:39.320 cannon will become. Um. I think on the technology side, 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:41.479 there's still a whole bunch of people who have not 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:44.520 figured out how to get a podcast and having't figured 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.679 out how to connect their car to their phone and 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.320 program their own commute. Um. I think that's going to 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:52.440 get better. And the more and more, you know, maybe 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:57.600 even connected cars will be just downloading podcasts into your car. Uh. 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:02.000 The easier that that that process gets for people, the 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.800 more people are going to start listening to podcasts. And 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.960 I think even creatively, we're still in the very early 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:12.159 days of what a podcast can even be. That I know, 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:16.560 on just literally on our team, there's probably still you know, 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.359 dozens of show formats or types of storytelling that we 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.400 haven't been able to do yet and that we haven't 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:26.800 necessarily heard in podcasts yet that are waiting to be done. 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.639 Um Like, it's it's funny like the we're doing a 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:37.560 show with McAfee about cybersecurity called Hackable, and the guy 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.720 who's the host and the producer of the show. Jeff 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.280 Siskin has a strong radio background, but he also did 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:47.920 a bunch of television programming, and the idea that they 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:49.560 came up with for the show was to take kind 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.560 of like the idea of a MythBusters like format and 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.080 apply it to cybersecurity in podcasting, so that you know, 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.080 every episode is kind of like a a scene from 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:00.920 a movie or TV show where you see a hacker 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.160 doing something and boom, they've hacked it in like five seconds, 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.560 and they wanted to test to see is that actually 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:11.440 possible and how worried should you be about somebody hacking you? 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.480 And so they actually get hackers to do it every episode, 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:18.159 and usually it's Jeff getting hacked. Jeff as is he 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:21.520 said so much of his life hacked on this show. Um, 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:23.479 but the but the idea of saying, like, we're not 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:26.439 just going to have cybersecurity experts on and interview them 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.720 and get tips that we're going to build a format around, 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.600 you know, taking this scene that people are probably familiar 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.080 with and then having real hackers do it and you're 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.040 kind of following along to see if he's going to 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:40.040 get hacked and what you should be able to do 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:44.920 to not get Hacked is infinitely more compelling than the 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:48.800 expert interview sort of thing. So um, I think I 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:50.919 think there's tons and tons of ideas that are going 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:56.800 to be brought into podcasting as it keeps evolving. And honestly, 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.040 like even just even just I Heeart that you know, 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.320 the company that you work or putting more and more 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:04.920 into podcasting this year, and you've got podcasting as a 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:07.640 bigger part of your mobile app. I bet there's tons 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:09.760 of people who listen to radio in the mobile app 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.560 that are going to have their first podcasting experience this year. 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.320 So um, you know, obviously biased, but I'm pretty foolish 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:23.199 on where podcasting is going. It's funny yesterday I was 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.600 listening to Dirty John on my Heart and I looked 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.200 at the comments and there were three people who would commented, 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.679 this was my first podcast. And I do feel that 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.679 with my heart we are really, you know, we're really 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:38.680 bringing podcasting to the radio audience for the first time. 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.040 And and and it's new for everybody here. It's new 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:42.840 for you know, for the you know, most of my 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:46.679 talent that are doing podcasting they've never done one before. 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:49.600 And uh and and it's in the amount of ideas, 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:51.240 and I agree with you. I think there are so 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:55.280 many formats yet to be tapped into into podcasts. It's 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:59.040 really it's it's exciting and overwhelming sometimes at the same time. Well, 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.040 it's interesting like the Dirty John when you you brought 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:03.800 up um, like I was listening to your one with 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:08.040 Max from podcast, Uh, you know another true crime company, 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:12.000 and Dirty John is a true crime thing. There's lots 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.000 of true crime and podcasting, So why did Dirty John 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.040 break out and become this massive hit? It's really interesting, 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.960 like just the same as I heart it's I personally 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:25.280 think they've just done a massive smart marketing campaign where 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:28.840 the l A. Times is a huge part of bringing 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:31.000 people who may read the l A Times and go 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.280 to the website. But I've never listened to a podcast before, 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.879 and all of the Dirty John story is in the 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:39.639 l A. Times, and there's big full page ads and 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.400 things where they're bringing podcast to a whole new audience. 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:44.800 I think, I mean, And it's not that it's not 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:47.760