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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Gil.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben.

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Speaker 4: We're joined as always with our super producer Dylan the

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Speaker 4: Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you are you. You are here.

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Speaker 4: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to

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Speaker 4: know at the most wonderful time of the year, fellow

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Speaker 4: conspiracy realists. Now, we've been juggling some schedules, guys, as

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Speaker 4: we returned, as we played ketch Up, as we got

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Speaker 4: to hang with some very hell yeah, as we played

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Speaker 4: ketchup and mustard and hospital couple cases. We had such

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Speaker 4: a great time on our journey with several of our

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Speaker 4: fellow listeners over with Virgin Voyage on their true crime cruise.

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Speaker 4: And you know, one thing that I think we all

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Speaker 4: enjoyed about it was that a lot of our fellow

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Speaker 4: listeners who were hanging out with us were asking us

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Speaker 4: about episodes right, asking us about people, places, events, incidents,

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Speaker 4: And I don't know what your experience was but guys,

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Speaker 4: a lot of folks were asking me about doing more

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Speaker 4: paranormal episodes, supernatural spooky stuff.

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Speaker 5: Well tis the season, indeed, and I think we're all

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Speaker 5: here for it.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, agreed, agreed, So what can we do but

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Speaker 4: oblige this time of year more than any we thought

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Speaker 4: it would be appropriate to dive into an ancient supernatural

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Speaker 4: dare we say infernal concept, the idea that has haunted

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Speaker 4: humanity since before the written word, the concept there are

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Speaker 4: certain unseen powers behind the curtain of reality, and that

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Speaker 4: through specific rituals or actions, you can traffic with these

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Speaker 4: forces for profound worldly gain at a price.

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Speaker 5: Well, and your results may vary, but consider this our

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Speaker 5: best crack atitutorial.

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Speaker 2: High like that set up, we do have some tips

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Speaker 2: and tricks. According to the Mallius Malficarum.

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Speaker 4: Yes, check out our episode on Grimoire's as well for

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Speaker 4: a deep dive into that. So we arrive at tonight's conspiracy.

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Speaker 4: You've met us here on the crossroads of the Internet

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Speaker 4: at midnight. Our question, can people really sell their souls?

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Speaker 4: Here are the facts. Every modern culture Christianity aside, but

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Speaker 4: every modern culture has some kind of version of selling

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Speaker 4: one soul, right.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and it's all based on someone who chooses

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Speaker 2: to live outside of the bounds that are set by

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Speaker 2: whatever society they're living in.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's also all based on the idea that we

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Speaker 6: have a soul.

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Speaker 5: And that that is like sort of one of those

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Speaker 5: religiously syncretistic things, this idea of the magic bit inside

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Speaker 5: of us that makes us alive and sentient.

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Speaker 3: That twenty one grams that makes you special.

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Speaker 4: As hip hop and weird science love to say, I

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Speaker 4: mean it's weird that well, weird, it's not the right word.

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Speaker 4: It's fascinating that, even in an increasingly secular climate, the

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Speaker 4: concept of selling one soul is still very common today.

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Speaker 4: It's often an idiom, and it means you are sacrificing integrity,

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Speaker 4: values and principles for some sort of perceived.

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Speaker 6: Game, right, selling out like Bill Burr. Right.

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Speaker 4: The most notable example recently in the Western world being

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Speaker 4: Saudi Arabia's Comedy Festival earlier this year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot exactly like that, and a lot

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Speaker 2: like taking on a giant loan to me, that's the

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Speaker 2: way I see selling a soul.

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Speaker 5: Your soul is kind of the the what's the word

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Speaker 5: the collateral.

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Speaker 2: Right in in some way, your soul is the thing

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Speaker 2: that let's say, if you're going to buy some crazy

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Speaker 2: mansion or something as especially an older person, and you

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Speaker 2: will probably never ever pay off that giant mansion that

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Speaker 2: you just put some collateral down on, but forever until

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Speaker 2: you die, you will be paying that. Well, I guess

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Speaker 2: in this case you'd be paying. You'd be paying after

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Speaker 2: you're dead too.

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Speaker 6: It's never mind, because it's just this bargain.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, very sea org right, it's a it's a guarantee.

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Speaker 4: It's using some scientifically undefinable part of oneself, arguably the

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Speaker 4: most important part in religious schools of thought, as an

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Speaker 4: asset right that you can leverage. And when we go

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Speaker 4: to the secular meeting, to return to this for a second,

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Speaker 4: we're we've heard, ad nauseum all kinds of opprobrium and

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Speaker 4: criticism for those big, big name comics, people like Bill

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Speaker 4: Burr as He's I'm sorry, Dave Chappelle, all the hits,

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Speaker 4: the folks who don't need the money, by the way,

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Speaker 4: took the bag and performed at the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia,

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Speaker 4: and a lot of diehard fans, nonprofits, activists, stand up colleagues.

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Speaker 4: They gave these folks a lot of heat about this

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Speaker 4: because KSA has an atrocious human rights record. They have

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Speaker 4: a lot of money just to put it diplomatically and transparently.

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Speaker 4: Despite the kingdom's official denials, pretty much everybody outside of

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Speaker 4: the KSA is pretty sure that, like Russia, the KSA

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Speaker 4: tortures and murders people with no real consequence.

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Speaker 2: I know, how could those comics do that and then

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Speaker 2: come home to this country where all we do is

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Speaker 2: murder people on boats randomly in the ocean all the time,

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Speaker 2: at least some time.

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Speaker 4: Of course, there's no better way to interrupt an electoral

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Speaker 4: process than to start a war, and the CIA is

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Speaker 4: kind of pissed right now.

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Speaker 5: Or divert attention from a certain Staco documents that individuals

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Speaker 5: would prefer remain buried.

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Speaker 4: I know, I'm surprised that hasn't acquired that beautiful gate

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Speaker 4: suffix yet. For political scandals in the US, you know,

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Speaker 4: there's Watergate, there's Iran Gate. You just add gate to

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Speaker 4: the back Staine Gate, Epstein Gate. Why has that happened yet?

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Speaker 5: It's a good question. I wonder if it's just no

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Speaker 5: longer in vogue. Maybe maybe that is a relic of

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Speaker 5: the past, but I would love to see more more Gates.

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Speaker 2: So, speaking of Epstein, have we done a whole episode

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Speaker 2: on Jean Luke Brunell?

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Speaker 3: We have not.

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Speaker 2: I don't let's do an entire episode on that guy

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Speaker 2: who was Epstein's like partner and a very close associate

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Speaker 2: of Epstein.

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Speaker 5: Well, the fact that I'm not even familiar with this

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Speaker 5: name and have obviously been following the story very closely

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Speaker 5: speaks volumes to me. At least I would love to

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Speaker 5: know more about this person. I'm sure, I'm certain we did.

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Speaker 5: It's just it, it does not seem like a name

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Speaker 5: that's floating around in the zeitgeists nearly as much as

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Speaker 5: it's clearly should.

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Speaker 2: Dude as a French modeling agent and he got caught

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Speaker 2: up on all this stuff, was like on the plane

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Speaker 2: all the time. Was one of the guys that brought

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Speaker 2: girls to Epstein and he was found hanged in his

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Speaker 2: cell in twenty twenty two. Right, we need to do

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Speaker 2: a whole episode.

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Speaker 6: On ye, agreed.

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Speaker 3: So back to selling one's soul.

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Speaker 6: Here, you could argue, speaking of us, well, sure.

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Speaker 4: Thing, Well, you can see the accusations of selling one's

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Speaker 4: soul now the way it's commonly used, they don't really

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Speaker 4: people don't really mean anything paranormal or supernatural about this.

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Speaker 4: They're saying, like you said, and all the concept of

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Speaker 4: selling out. And we see these accusations all the time

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Speaker 4: in modern history, startups to politicians, your favorite punk band

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Speaker 4: that makes it big, musicians, authors, even podcasters and streamers,

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Speaker 4: game developers. But the question then becomes, why does selling

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Speaker 4: one's soul have such rhetorical weight? Why is it still

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Speaker 4: such an insult in a world where people are increasingly irreligious.

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Speaker 5: Well, and obviously we're going to get into the religious

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Speaker 5: aspects of it and the lore of it, but even

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Speaker 5: if you look at a lot of those religious texts

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Speaker 5: or some of these stories as more of a teachable

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Speaker 5: kind of parable, it really does one to one go

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Speaker 5: with this idea of selling out, of doing the bad

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Speaker 5: thing for the great gain, you know.

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Speaker 3: Right, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: And I think especially if it hurts other people in

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Speaker 2: your rise to power or prominence or whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: if other people are injured, like either bodily or mentally

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Speaker 2: or whatever. I think that is when it really comes

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Speaker 2: into this selling your soul thing.

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Speaker 4: It's also a real mechanism or an observation of deferred

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Speaker 4: gratification a lot of times the way. And we'll see

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Speaker 4: so really these stories as we continue, but one of

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Speaker 4: the common tropes or the common errors of a main character,

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Speaker 4: and a story about selling your soul is something that

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Speaker 4: we all do even today without the interference of Satanic powers.

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Speaker 4: You put a lot of stuff on the future, you right,

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Speaker 4: there's stuff you should do, but it's Saturday, and it's

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Speaker 4: nice night, so you put that on Sunday Bin or

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Speaker 4: tomorrow Matt or next day Nol. And this is a

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Speaker 4: common thing. This is something we'll see a lot in

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Speaker 4: the concept of selling one's soul as well, especially Fausti imbargains.

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Speaker 4: Maybe we can say the reason it still holds such weight,

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Speaker 4: the idea of selling one's soul or selling out, is

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Speaker 4: because multiple civilizations genuinely did and do believe in what

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Speaker 4: we're describing the concept of the soul, that infintesimal little

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Speaker 4: piece of the divine and every single human being just

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Speaker 4: by the virtue of being human, that bright light inside.

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Speaker 5: You, as they say in yoga practice, you gotta honor it,

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Speaker 5: you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And we see this across religions, not just the

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Speaker 4: Abramaic ones, but Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism. Most spiritual belief systems

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Speaker 4: factor in the existence of something like a soul. Now,

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Speaker 4: like you said, your mileage may vary. They get their

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Speaker 4: own specific beliefs about how a soul works, what it

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Speaker 4: means in life, what it does or does not mean

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Speaker 4: after your physical death. And usually, to be quite honest,

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Speaker 4: these spiritual belief systems don't agree with each other because

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Speaker 4: a lot of organized religions hinge on the idea of exclusivity.

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Speaker 5: Well, even the idea of having soul, or the cultural

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Speaker 5: implications of you got soul man soul music, you know,

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Speaker 5: a lot of that derives from gospel music and religious

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Speaker 5: music and then becomes a little more r and B

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Speaker 5: coded or funk coded, and there is now this kind

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Speaker 5: of concept of if someone's got soul, that means they

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Speaker 5: got they got vibes, right, they got like they got attitude,

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Speaker 5: but like in a good way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But what good is the soul anyway? If that

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Speaker 2: soul is worshiping the wrong deity, what are you gonna

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Speaker 2: do with that?

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Speaker 6: It's the ultimate religious quandary, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, But if you got it wrong, that's the thing, right. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's the thing about religion. The credits don't transfer in

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Speaker 4: these things.

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Speaker 6: You don't know till the end. You don't bet on

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Speaker 6: the right horse. You know, what if it's shakers.

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Speaker 2: What if that's really what it is? Though, at the end,

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Speaker 2: you get like an equivalent credit for however awesome of

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Speaker 2: a worshiper you were, of whatever you worshiped. You get

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Speaker 2: like a little score you know what you did great?

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Speaker 4: You get your ged You're God enough diploma.

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Speaker 6: And there's the board up there somewhere, and you get

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Speaker 6: to see the look.

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Speaker 5: Your place in the afterlife, whether you get like, you know,

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Speaker 5: a condo or a mansion or a palace.

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Speaker 4: I don't like a hierarchical afterlife. That's just unnecessary here, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I hear you.

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Speaker 2: That's why I always liked the concept of karma because

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Speaker 2: it felt like you could, you could. It was quantitative

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Speaker 2: in a way, uh less qualitative, liked.

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Speaker 6: D and how much right? And how would that be measured?

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Speaker 4: If you haven't seen the excellent comedy philosophical comedy The

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Speaker 4: Good Place, please do check it out. If you like

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Speaker 4: this episode, then that series is right in your right

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Speaker 4: in your c zone.

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Speaker 6: Mm hmm. Yeah, put it in my c zone. So

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Speaker 6: here's the thing.

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Speaker 4: Okay, you can look at all sorts of established denominations

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Speaker 4: of larger religious belief systems, and you will always find

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Speaker 4: splinter groups or sects that claim they are the ones

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Speaker 4: with the true understanding of afterlife metaphysics and mechanisms, and

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Speaker 4: anyone who doesn't follow their particular brand is doomed to

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Speaker 4: hell or a less good after life. But we have

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Speaker 4: to ask, if a God does exist, then why does

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Speaker 4: this all powerful entity not just drop by for like

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Speaker 4: a ted talk every few months to set the record straight.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that guy God, according to so many religious texts,

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Speaker 4: used to show up all the time. You know what,

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Speaker 4: just pop it, burn a bush, had some advice, came

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Speaker 4: up with some rules.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you check out the Mallius Malficarum, there

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Speaker 2: is a deity that will stop by every time there's

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Speaker 2: a conclave of his slash her worshippers.

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Speaker 4: It's right because the Malius gets the Malius is a

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Speaker 4: hit piece, as we'll see, but the witches Hammer does

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Speaker 4: get into some pretty juicy specifics. I mean, the idea though,

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Speaker 4: of selling one's soul comes from other older pre Christian

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Speaker 4: narratives the things that said, you know, unseen powerful forces exist.

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Speaker 4: They are sentions, right, they are sapients, so they are thinking,

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Speaker 4: and they are wise, and they can inc with you.

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Speaker 4: They're just not human.

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Speaker 3: This could be a.

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Speaker 4: Brownie be an ancestor spirit, a jin, a demon, a

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Speaker 4: loved ghost, and angel.

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Speaker 5: Well, in the implication, there is that God or whichever

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Speaker 5: deity you worship owns your soul or is you know,

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Speaker 5: in some way has a stake in your soul, and

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Speaker 5: you are more or less taking that away from the

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Speaker 5: good side and lending it or you know, selling it

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Speaker 5: over to the bad sides you or you are switching

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Speaker 5: teams for all intents and purposes.

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Speaker 4: Right right, It's a spiritual It's a profound spiritual betrayal.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we know the rise of modern monotheism arguing

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Speaker 4: for just the existence of one single God. We know

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Speaker 4: that really simplified a lot of spirituality because now we

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Speaker 4: can say there isn't sacro sayct good and an established

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Speaker 4: bad an oppositional force, and they're both working continually around

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Speaker 4: the clock to either save humanity or obliterated. And Christianity

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Speaker 4: and Islam, we could say, are particularly vulnerable to this

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Speaker 4: binary concept. You know, Christianity has the saints and the prophets,

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Speaker 4: and Islam has the prophets in the jin but you

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Speaker 4: can pray for the intercession of the saints. In some

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Speaker 4: types of Christianity, you can pray to that saint even

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Speaker 4: though you're saying there's only one God.

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Speaker 5: And I'm sure this is the case in other religions too,

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Speaker 5: But in you know, Christian lore and text, there are

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Speaker 5: minor demons. There are lesser you know, infernal entities that

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Speaker 5: all have names and have their own mythology behind them

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Speaker 5: and all that stuff. And you could absolutely sell your

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Speaker 5: soul to one of them or worship one of them,

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Speaker 5: like a case in point of paym On.

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Speaker 6: Yes, all hail from Hereditary.

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Speaker 4: A zazel ball, you know of the other fallen angels

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Speaker 4: that kind of WU tanged up with Lucifer in the

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Speaker 4: beginning of the Fall.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And they're all like generals that command a certain

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Speaker 2: number of army princes of Hell.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, they really keys of Solomon. I believe is a

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Speaker 6: text that the outlines a lot of those. Was this

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Speaker 6: where payment came from? Anyway that I'm aware of?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, also mentioned in our Grimoire episode. So I love

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Speaker 4: that callback we know that those devils or those demons

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Speaker 4: and their principalities also similar in an inversion of the

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Speaker 4: concept of patron saints. They have power over certain earthly things, right,

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Speaker 4: be that the weather, be that finance, be that romantic interest.

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Speaker 4: So you're right, it's a seller's market. You can find

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Speaker 4: somebody who are some thing that specializes in the stuff

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Speaker 4: you want and maybe crack a deal. You can also

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Speaker 4: in Islam, you can make deals with the jin because

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Speaker 4: they're one of God's creations. They're surprisingly similar to humans.

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Speaker 4: But there are more things out there, right and than

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Speaker 4: on all of our imaginings, deep in the sea, high

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Speaker 4: in the ink of space, right behind you. Sometimes, folks, tonight,

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Speaker 4: maybe we hone in on the Christian idea of selling

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Speaker 4: one's soul, because this could be a series if we

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Speaker 4: look at all different religions throughout history. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: So how about we share rituals and stories of people

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Speaker 4: who either genuinely attempted to summon the old gods, demons

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Speaker 4: or devils, or genuinely believe that they had sold their soul,

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Speaker 4: and then we can end on of course, the priceless question,

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Speaker 4: has anyone actually managed to sell their soul.

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Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy, yes.

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Speaker 6: At least according to the stories.

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Speaker 4: All right, Now, as we pointed out earlier, to believe

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Speaker 4: in this magical process, you got to have some starting axioms.

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Speaker 4: You have to already assume that infernal and divine powers exist,

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Speaker 4: because they can't exist without each other. And then, just

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Speaker 4: for the sake of conversation, we'll take that as a given.

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Speaker 4: The concept of making a deal with the devil, treating

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Speaker 4: your immortal soul for worldly reward, it dates so far

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Speaker 4: back in Christianity. We all know the story in the

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Speaker 4: New Testament where Satan tempts Jesus in the desert, which

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Speaker 4: is basically a cell your soul pitch right well.

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Speaker 5: And a lot of these, too, are monkeys paw type

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Speaker 5: situations where you get the thing that you think you want,

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Speaker 5: but they're like knock on consequences that you did not

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Speaker 5: consider that make the whole thing you wanted sort of

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Speaker 5: not worth it in the first place. And a lot

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Speaker 5: of this stuff you'll see in folklore and folk tales.

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Speaker 5: And one of my favorite depictions of this bargain is

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Speaker 5: Ariel selling her soul to the sea witch in The

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Speaker 5: Freaking Little Mermaid. I mean, it's more personified as her voice,

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Speaker 5: but it's this glowing orb that comes out of her.

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Speaker 5: And then she's blessed, I guess, with the ability to

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Speaker 5: walk on land. But then there's all of these horrific

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Speaker 5: knock on consequences and ultimately the sea Witch is the

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Speaker 5: devil and has her in the palm of her hand

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Speaker 5: to get exactly what she wants out of the situation,

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Speaker 5: which is what you see in a lot of these

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Speaker 5: black mass Christian kind of anti christ kind of ceremonies.

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Speaker 6: That it's just and Ursula is just a real pill.

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Speaker 6: Oh I got terrifying too, and she gets all big

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Speaker 6: and stuff.

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Speaker 3: At the end.

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Speaker 4: Man, yeah this I mean. Another example, of course, would

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Speaker 4: be that episode of The Simpsons where Homer trades his

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Speaker 4: soul for a donut, speaking of like instant versus deferred

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Speaker 4: gratitude of course.

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Speaker 5: Just one of those classic sprinkle Simpsons donuts too. It

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Speaker 5: hasn't been with the layer of icing and then just

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Speaker 5: like the little yeah, not even stuffed, not even like

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Speaker 5: a cream field, just a standard.

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Speaker 6: He wasn't thinking ahead.

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Speaker 4: Treehouse of Horror is just the best part of the Simpsons,

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Speaker 4: I think, and.

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Speaker 5: Has relatively maintained even in their lesser years. Usually you'll

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Speaker 5: see a treehouse and because of its inherent anthology type style,

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Speaker 5: usually continues to work.

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Speaker 4: That's the only one I watched at this point. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so okay. The specifics of the process, Let's say you

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Speaker 4: want to sell your soul, they vary based on the source,

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Speaker 4: but Western or Christian soul's usually follows a key a

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Speaker 4: few key beats. Right, it's Joseph Campbell stuff. It's story structure,

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Speaker 4: it's folklore, it's tropes. The person seeking a deal makes

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Speaker 4: contact with the devil or another demon through a ritual

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Speaker 4: like a black mass. Right, Maybe they get together and

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Speaker 4: have their dark tupperware party. Or they can sort consult

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Speaker 4: a grimlaw for instructions on going solo and doing their

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Speaker 4: own summoning ritual.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Or they can go into a church and just

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Speaker 2: renounce all of the stuff in the church and pledge

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Speaker 2: their loyalty to They call them the little Master in

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Speaker 2: the Malleus maleficar.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm, yeah like that.

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Speaker 4: Well again, it's it's a book written by enemies of

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Speaker 4: these beliefs. I don't know, it's I can't Oh gosh,

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Speaker 4: I want to re listen to the grim wi episode again, I'm.

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Speaker 2: Gonna keep bringing it, I'm sorry, because it's got actual,

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Speaker 2: like right instructions in there on how people confessed to

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Speaker 2: how they sold their souls to the de.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we'll talk about some of those folks

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Speaker 4: too in specific. Okay, So a black mass, how would

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Speaker 4: we explain a black mass?

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Speaker 6: And what is deistic Satanism?

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Speaker 5: It would be a bastardization or a blasphemization of a

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Speaker 5: Catholic mass, you know that is meant to honor God.

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Speaker 5: This is almost like a inverse of that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right, man, It's an intentional perversion,

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Speaker 4: blasphemous parody of a Catholic mass. And specific deistic Satanism

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Speaker 4: is the is what people mean when they're talking about

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Speaker 4: a Satanic panic. It's acknowledging that a God exists and

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Speaker 4: therefore an opposition party to that God exists. So that's

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Speaker 4: separate from other Satanism, which just uses the symbolism and

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Speaker 4: language of these belief systems but doesn't actually think there's

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Speaker 4: an evil bad guy or little Master or good man.

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Speaker 5: They're just using iconography to their ends, right, Yeah, Like

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Speaker 5: as a way, and I'm a fan of that, Like,

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Speaker 5: I love co opting religious iconography. I think they're beautiful

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Speaker 5: and they can be really powerful and a fun way

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Speaker 5: of maybe doing a little bit of satire and maybe

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Speaker 5: you know, like I have a whole wall in my

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Speaker 5: house it's just crucifixes. I'm not Catholic, and there's something

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Speaker 5: almost slightly blasphemous about having a giant wall of nothing

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Speaker 5: but crucifixes, and that like does it for me a

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Speaker 5: little bit, you know. I don't mean sound like, oh,

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Speaker 5: I'm so clever, but it's just that's sort of something

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Speaker 5: that I'm interested in, is like inversion, subversion rather of

404
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Speaker 5: religious symbology.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that can be I mean, that's a personal

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Speaker 4: journey too. It's not necessarily offensive at all. I think

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Speaker 4: it's an aesthetic. The crosses in black masses are a

408
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Speaker 4: course inverted, as you said, all manner of unclean and

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Speaker 4: per the stories of witch hunters. Really nasty things take

410
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Speaker 4: place the place of the Eucharist, like various bodily fluids,

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Speaker 4: maybe actual human flesh from a sacrifice, all kinds of

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Speaker 4: stuffings are certainly drinking of blood, yeah, blo seminon fluids.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Unbaptized children is really popular.

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Speaker 3: Right, especially in the film series.

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Speaker 2: Warlock and in the Melia's Male Car.

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Speaker 4: So most primary sources on this, let's talk about why

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Speaker 4: it's so skewed. Most of the primary sources on selling

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Speaker 4: one's soul or consorting with the infertile they come from

420
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Speaker 4: Latin and French, and they were not created by people

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Speaker 4: engaged in these practices, if they existed, they were created

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Speaker 4: by Christian authorities who wanted to crack down on belief

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Speaker 4: systems or practices that didn't match the uniform state religion.

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Speaker 4: So the majority of the actual literature you can find,

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Speaker 4: not just the Hammer of Witches, but all the other

426
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Speaker 4: gremoires we mentioned, The majority of that is written by critics,

427
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Speaker 4: not supporters, not fans, not people with necessarily first hand experience.

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Speaker 6: They're trying to smear the.

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Speaker 4: Character of these folks who were outside of the norm.

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Speaker 4: There's a statement in Japan that translates to the nail

431
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Speaker 4: that stands out will get hammered down. That's why they

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Speaker 4: call it the hammer, which is yeah, because this is

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Speaker 4: a socio political control mechanism.

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Speaker 6: The squeaky wheel gets the grease or the bodily fluids.

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Speaker 2: Yes, most of the stuff that's in there was extracted

436
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Speaker 2: from people who were either you know, actively being tortured

437
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 2: or had been tortured for you know, weeks or months,

438
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: or we're trying to get out of being tortured.

439
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 5: So, as we know that game of Telephone is already

440
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,719
Speaker 5: a little wacky in terms of the way things mutate

441
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 5: over time, think about how that's contributed to by people

442
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 5: who are under duress and just trying to say something

443
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 5: that rings true or sounds just demonic enough to be believed,

444
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 5: you know, so that you'll go a quick death.

445
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 6: Or feed names.

446
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, feed names you have other people, especially when you're

447
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 4: prompted to do so.

448
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 3: What do you think about good wife Mary?

449
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, Oh she's totally a way. Can I keep

450
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 4: my other fingers's? That's what's happening, right?

451
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: Why do you keep worshiping the evil one? Torture? Torture, torture?

452
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: Why are you worshiping the evil side? Torture, torture, torture?

453
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 2: Where are the good guys?

454
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 6: Yeah?

455
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 4: Check check out how Dare You Have a Birthmark? Check

456
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 4: out our series, not just one episode, but our series

457
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 4: on whether or not torture works. Spoiler it does not

458
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 4: work the way it's advertised.

459
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 6: Absolutely not. And like I said it definitely.

460
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 5: It's a random numbers generator of weird that just kind

461
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 5: of gets absorbed by the culture, you know, and then

462
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 5: telephoned you know, throughout history. And I'm pretty sure that's

463
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 5: where some of these confessions quote unquote of rituals come from,

464
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 5: and then they get sort of tweaked and adjusted over time.

465
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 4: Embellish, yeah, especially because they're a powerful political tool. There

466
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 4: are social control mechanism. There wasn't much in the way

467
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 4: of fact checking at the time. As a matter of fact,

468
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 4: act acting as a fact checker makes you look kind

469
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 4: of witchy yourself. So people were very frightened of witch

470
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 4: hunters and which finders and the inquisition, and we learned

471
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 4: a new word and the research for this. A guy

472
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 4: named Epiphanius of Salamis was a fourth century heresiologist, a

473
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 4: guy whose job is just a study heresy. Pretty neat

474
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 4: thing to say on a first date, no doubt. Yeah,

475
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 4: so he he is. He's a great example outside of

476
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 4: the usual grim laws of someone who uses accusations of

477
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 4: infernal trafficking and selling one soul to attack an outsider

478
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 4: group in his society. He says, there's this gnostic sect

479
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 4: called the borbarites, and they have a perverted version of Mass.

480
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 4: This may not be appropriate for all. First three to one,

481
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 4: they smear their hands with menstrual blood and seamen and

482
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 4: consume them in a parody of the body and blood

483
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 4: of Christ. And people believed it. They were like, look,

484
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 4: this guy took the time to write it down.

485
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 3: Why would he be lying?

486
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 5: Reasons right, we discussed. I love that you're mentioning the

487
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 5: Black Goat, Ben. I think we're all three or four

488
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 5: of us here big fans of David Egg Robert Egger's

489
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 5: rather the Witch, which I think personifies the Black mass

490
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 5: incredibly well, no spoilers for that, but this idea of

491
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 5: you know, being in Congress or having some sort of

492
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 5: dialogue with this black goat black Philip film in the film.

493
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 4: I love that Twins song too, do you think do

494
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,439
Speaker 4: you guys think the twins were witches?

495
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 5: I think they had been bewitched, okay, And also there's

496
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 5: something inherently creepy about twins, and I think maybe the

497
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 5: film is leaning on that a little bit, but I

498
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 5: do think that's the case. I think whether they were

499
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 5: possessed or in some way a harbinger or like a

500
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 5: what's the word like a medium to carry whatever chifernal forces.

501
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 6: I think they were part of it in some way,

502
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 6: like a vector for disease. There you go, Okay, yeah,

503
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 6: I like them.

504
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: Got something from the Malley's bella of the car if

505
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 2: you want to hear it about the children and all

506
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: that stuff which is like applicable here is uh, this

507
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: is exactly what we just talked about. It's some kind

508
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 2: of confession, right, a coerced confession. This is a woman

509
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: saying we sent our snares, chiefly for unbaptized children, and

510
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: even for those that have been baptized, especially when they

511
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 2: have not been protected by the sign of the Cross

512
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: and prayers, and with our spells. We kill them in

513
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 2: their cradles, and even if they're sleeping by their parents' side,

514
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: in such a way that afterwards they're thought to have

515
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 2: been overlain or have died in some other natural death.

516
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: Then we secretly take them from their graves and we

517
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 2: cook them in a cauldron until the whole flesh comes

518
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 2: away from the bones. To make soup, for which may

519
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: easily be drunk of the solid matter, we make an

520
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 2: ungent which is of poultice.

521
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 6: Like guy thing you rub all over yourself, which is

522
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 6: also in the wits.

523
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 2: Sorry, which is a virtue to help us in our

524
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: arts and pleasures, in our transport Haitians as in like

525
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 2: classically or spiritually transporting. And with the liquid we fill

526
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: a flask or skin, whoever drinks from which, with the

527
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 2: addition with a few other ceremonies, immediately acquires much knowledge.

528
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: It becomes a leader in our sect. So to me,

529
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: that's like that you're gaining something from doing these horrendous things,

530
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 2: in essentially selling your soul.

531
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:21,959
Speaker 6: I know, Ben, I know.

532
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 5: Egger's really dug into a lot of like writing from

533
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 5: the period and tried to make things really accurate.

534
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 6: He had to have been familiar with this book that

535
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 6: you guys are talking about.

536
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's definitely familiar with that Grimoi. He's also familiar

537
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 4: with the writings of people like Increase or Cotton Mather

538
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 4: Sinners in the hands of an Angry God and pretty

539
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 4: well read up on the ergod theories, and it also

540
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 4: read up on the idea of using hallucinogenic substances as

541
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 4: a masturbation aid, which is one of the possible theories

542
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 4: for the broomstick or the other flying implements.

543
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 5: And Also, if you're you know, tripping your balls off,

544
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 5: you may very well believe that you're flying.

545
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 6: You know, dude, I've had conversations with goats, you know what.

546
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 6: I mean, nothing wrong with it, But Matt, you mentioned

547
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 6: the word transportation.

548
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 5: I believe in that little passage you distroyed and the

549
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 5: way it's depicted in some of the lord that I've

550
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 5: seen that was depicted in the Witch is rubbing that

551
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 5: goo all over them is what helps them fly, like

552
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 5: truly transportation, not just like you know, some sort of

553
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 5: spiritual movements, but like literal flying through the sky on

554
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 5: their you know, broomsticks.

555
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, because from the eyes of the enemy forces, the

556
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 4: authorities who are conducting this torture and social control from

557
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 4: through their eyes, all of the stuff they consider black

558
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 4: magic has to be a pay on demand kind of arrangement.

559
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 3: So if you so, for.

560
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 4: Instance, I mean, and again, all these confessions, in my opinion,

561
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 4: are bs. Even though Malice Malathi Karam had did have

562
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 4: rules on paper about how confessions under torture had to

563
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 4: be confirmed. If you confess under torture, you have to

564
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 4: be moved to another place and then in.

565
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 3: That other place with these other people.

566
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 4: The victim has to confirm that they were truthfully confessing

567
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 4: and that it was not due to the fact that

568
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 4: someone was torturing the shit out of them. Thank you

569
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 4: for the detailan, but I mean, torture is gonna come

570
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 4: again if you don't give them the right results.

571
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 6: It's an implied you better corroborate it.

572
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, at this.

573
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 4: Point, at this point in time, Geneva is just another town.

574
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 3: It is not.

575
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 4: It's not the inspiration for the Geneva Conventions.

576
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think there's something really interesting in this though.

577
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: In this time period you're talking fourteen eighties, fourteen eighty seven,

578
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: when when that book is written, when you know, and

579
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 2: well before that's when all the things that were basically ripped.

580
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: He ripped a bunch of people off when he wrote

581
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: that book. Was his name and Jacob Springer. So they

582
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: there's this thing though, I've been to a lot of churches, guys,

583
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 2: and I have never seen God or Jesus or any

584
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 2: deity appear before the congregation during any kind of ceremony,

585
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: no matter what it is. Been to a lot of

586
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: weddings where God is supposed to be. There've been to

587
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: a lot of religious ceremonies and there's never been a

588
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: deity involved, according to these stories that are written in

589
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 2: this book. And I think this is why it's so

590
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: powerful and maybe why so scary to establish religions, especially Christianity.

591
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: According to these writings, in these forced confessions, at the conclaves,

592
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 2: at the places where you know the devil is worshiped,

593
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 2: the devil shows up according to these things, like shows

594
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: up in person as a man, and they don't say

595
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 2: like sometimes, they say every time, right, And so they're

596
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 2: placing that in the mythology of it as And I

597
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: imagine how powerful that would be if you went and

598
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 2: you prayed, and you're the God that you're worshiping shows

599
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: up in physical form every time. That would be a

600
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 2: huge challenge to your religion if what your priests can't

601
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: make the God show up right.

602
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, So going back to our the concept we were

603
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 4: originally exploring here, the story beats or the process of

604
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 4: selling one's soul. There's the infamous signing of one's name

605
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 4: in the Devil's Book. This is the direct representation of

606
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 4: selling your soul in exchange for power on earth or

607
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 4: some kind of worldly response, be that true love, be

608
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 4: that finding gold, or in Homer Simpson's case, getting a

609
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 4: sick doughnut, the taste of butter, a pretty dress, all.

610
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 6: The hits, just the taste, just the taste.

611
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 5: And again in a Little Mermaid, Ariel very aggressively has

612
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 5: to scrawl her name in this growing tome that really

613
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 5: does have Devil's Book vibes. I know it's more of

614
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 5: a contract. Maybe it's not a book, it's a scroll

615
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 5: kind of thing, but it's the imagery is absolutely there.

616
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, and these are just a couple of examples, but

617
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 4: they are we could argue illustrative because you can see

618
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 4: how everything about this propaganda, which is what a lot

619
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 4: of it is, Everything about this propaganda provides a very

620
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 4: convenient rationale for church authorities and witch finders to seek

621
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 4: support as they quash spiritual rivals or even just financial

622
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 4: economic rivals in the wrong part of town. Because one

623
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 4: thing I remember taking college classes on this in particular,

624
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 4: but one thing that happened a lot with the inquisition

625
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 4: is these guys were working on commission, so it did

626
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 4: not they didn't make money if someone ended up being innocent,

627
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 4: but if they did bring somebody back to Christ, or

628
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 4: if they did find and stop a witch, then they

629
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 4: got their vig at the end from that person's assets.

630
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 4: So that's why older single women were often targeted. That's

631
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 4: why a lot of religious minorities were targeted. There was

632
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 4: a very real conspiracy at play. I mean, yeah, did

633
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 4: people do things that would look like a black mass

634
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 4: to outsiders on a routine basis? Maybe because it was

635
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 4: a non Christian religion, right, they could have been an

636
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:23,959
Speaker 4: animist or nature worshiping kind of organization or institution, And yeah,

637
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 4: maybe they're dancing around with garlands.

638
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 3: Maybe they do.

639
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 4: Have a black goat, and maybe they put some stuff

640
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 4: on the goat, right.

641
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 6: Dude, you know, it just occurred to me, the whole

642
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 6: the taste of butter thing.

643
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 5: I think we've talked about this on this show, but

644
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,479
Speaker 5: also in ridiculous history, these butter boxes where people would

645
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 5: stick put money in these boxes to buy themselves indulgences

646
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 5: in order to be able to enjoy butter because it

647
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 5: was inherently considered too decadent or like too sinful. So

648
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 5: I think that whole the taste of butter thing is

649
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 5: a direct ref to that.

650
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 6: That's really cool. It just occurred to that. Yeah, brilliant.

651
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 2: I mean, oh, guys, I cook with a lot of butter.

652
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 6: Oh no, you are damned, my friend.

653
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 3: Ah, dang it, just right to the dam just right to.

654
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 4: The in pope and tell him you'll buy him some furnet.

655
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 4: That's how those deals work. Oh yeah, that's the one, Malert.

656
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I mean they're both equally. I'm choosing the

657
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 4: high root, all right. So look, some newly initiated devil

658
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 4: worshipers might sell their souls at a black mass, but

659
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 4: that also might not be the primary focus. Again, not

660
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 4: for nothing, we'll be saying an infernal tupperware party to

661
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 4: Catholic authorities. The black Mass is regularly conducted just to

662
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 4: sort of celebrate Satan in general, and then to get

663
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 4: together and say, here's some stuff I did to further

664
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 4: the cause of Satan in the world. You know, poison

665
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 4: to well, cow went back, cow went sick. I made

666
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 4: sure that the neighbors kids were still born, all kinds

667
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 4: of stuff like that. But you also don't have to

668
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 4: go to the party to sell your soul. There are

669
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 4: tons of other rituals, maybe animal or human sacrifice. You

670
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 4: make a summoning circle wrought with signs and sigils, You

671
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 4: prepare your magical ingredients, You recite a certain magical phrase

672
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 4: or incantation. Abercadabra, paymon, knock knock, who's there? Simsalabim?

673
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 6: Is there a world been where you could sell your

674
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 6: soul by accident?

675
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 7: Oh?

676
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 6: Man?

677
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 4: That's interesting, right, because I think the parables tell us

678
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 4: that you will. People sell their souls without realizing the consequences,

679
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 4: or as you said, a monkey's pause situation where they

680
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 4: don't know what they're wishing for. But I do like

681
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 4: the idea of accidentally selling one's soul. You'd have to

682
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 4: really stumble through some stuff there.

683
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 5: That's exactly right, a real, a perfect storm of happenstance.

684
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 5: I actually just googled sell your soul by accident? Yeah,

685
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 5: and a Reddit thread came up in our Christianity, I'm

686
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 5: worried I might have accidentally sold my soul. And the

687
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 5: first response is if you are wondering if you sold

688
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,959
Speaker 5: your soul, then no, you did not sell your soul.

689
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 5: People who sold their soul know that they sold their soul.

690
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 4: We read a lot of Christian sources for this too,

691
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 4: and it's surprising even there how divided opinions can be

692
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 4: across denominations.

693
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 5: Well, I think to a point we mentioned earlier, there

694
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 5: is a sense in certain religious denominations that your.

695
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 6: Soul is not yours to sell. Yes, your soul is

696
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 6: the property of God.

697
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 4: So it's not even like possible for you to do this, right,

698
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,240
Speaker 4: or that you because you cannot sell your own soul.

699
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 3: Some denominations would.

700
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 4: Argue when you think that you're doing that, you're just

701
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 4: committing a great sin. But you can still pray for forgiveness,

702
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 4: so it's not the end of the game for you.

703
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 4: That's a nice version of the selling the soul story.

704
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 6: I don't mind that.

705
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 3: I don't mind it.

706
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, yeah, I think there's a version where

707
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 2: you are tricked into believing you sold your soul to

708
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 2: do those horrifying things that are you know, outlined in

709
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: all of these sources or whatever, and then you're not

710
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 2: actually doing any kind of buying or selling, as you said, Ben,

711
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: you're just committing the awful acts. So there's no way

712
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 2: to get into the good place, the actual good place anymore.

713
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 5: Still qualify for absolution if you play your cards right

714
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 5: down the line, right.

715
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: Right, maybe if you have enough money, but enough.

716
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 4: Money in that butter box now, depending too upon your denomination, right,

717
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 4: So a lot of this, again is coming from enemies

718
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 4: of pretty much anybody non Catholic.

719
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 6: Those are the folks who are writing about this.

720
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 4: And as we're going to see, at no point in

721
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 4: all of history has anybody conclusively been proven to have

722
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 4: sold their soul, mainly because no one has conclusively scientifically

723
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 4: proven the existence of demons or Lucifer the light Bringer,

724
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 4: or souls or souls. But as we're about to see,

725
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 4: tons of people have been murdered on the basis of

726
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 4: these accusations. And there are tons of people throughout history who,

727
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 4: for one reason or another, claim to have sold their

728
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 4: soul and appear to really believe they did it, which.

729
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 2: Is and lots of right.

730
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 4: Mostly yeah, mostly rumors, attempts at political or physiological assassination.

731
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 4: What see, We pause for word from our sponsors and

732
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 4: get into some examples because I say, yeah.

733
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 6: All right, we're back.

734
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 4: One of the first examples is a guy named Saint

735
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 4: Theophilus of a Donna.

736
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 6: Yes, Saint Theophilius Theophyllis.

737
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 5: Of a Donna is one of Christianity's older examples of

738
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,919
Speaker 5: someone successfully selling their soul.

739
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 6: So THEO as you have nicknamed him in the doc here.

740
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 5: Ben, Yeah, it's a familiar it's a familiar, Yeah, exactly.

741
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 2: We like THEO.

742
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 5: He's got a good story here. He was indeed likely

743
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 5: a real person who lived and died so long ago. However,

744
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:00,919
Speaker 5: that a lot of what we had tribute to him

745
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 5: has become at this point that game of telephone that

746
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 5: results in law and legend.

747
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but definitely real dude, right, but I love

748
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 4: how you're saying this. He was born so long ago

749
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 4: that he's definitely become a kind of larger life figure.

750
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 4: But he is an actual facts Catholic saint. According to

751
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 4: the story, our buddy, THEO is working in a Donna

752
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 4: what we call modern day Turkey today. He gets offered

753
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 4: the position of bishop, and he's humble as all get out.

754
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 4: He's the opposite of a corporate shark. So at first

755
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 4: THEO says, ah, thank you, but you know, I'm not

756
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 4: some big time guy. I'm just doing my best. And

757
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 4: then he runs into an issue, real insult upon injury.

758
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 4: The church goes. They find this other guy to be

759
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 4: the bishop, and this guy has it out for THEO.

760
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 6: For some reason.

761
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 4: He's mad at him, so he either unfairly removes THEO

762
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 4: from his post or he doesn't give him what he

763
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 4: feels is an appropriate high ranking position in the local clergy.

764
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 3: So Theo's not having it. He's not having it.

765
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 4: He reaches out to wizard in the area, as you do,

766
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 4: I guess local wizard. Yeah, wizard goes through his rolodex

767
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 4: and puts THEO in touch with the actual devil, Satan Lucifer,

768
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 4: and Satan comes in and he says, you know, Bud, look,

769
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 4: I could make you to bishop if you renounce Christ

770
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 4: to the verge of Mary and sign this contract in

771
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 4: your own blood. How usually it goes normal negotiation, that's

772
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 4: all reseunds our contract. Wait, did you to sign yours

773
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 4: in pen or do you have to use blood too?

774
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,959
Speaker 5: I mean I tick a box that where I give

775
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 5: permission for it to be from my digital signature to

776
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 5: be transubstantiated into blood.

777
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 3: Love it.

778
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 2: Hey, And this is your reminder everybody out there who

779
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 2: works a corporate job, it's time for open enrollment wherever

780
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 2: you work, So make sure you sign your name and

781
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 2: blood on all those documents for you and all the

782
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 2: people you take care of.

783
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 4: And open enrollment is just a terrible bit of language.

784
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 6: It's just a dumb phrase. Open roll whatever it is dumb,

785
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 6: it is all right.

786
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 2: Hey, you know I found out guys in our state

787
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 2: where you live, you you can't you can't have a

788
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 2: dependent who is a domestic partner if they're of the opposite.

789
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 3: Sex, right, yes, that is as well?

790
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 2: Wait what yes?

791
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 3: Why you can't have a because.

792
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 6: Because I want you to marry.

793
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's sort of like, yeah, I guess it's leaning

794
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 5: in favor of like, well, you got to get married

795
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 5: because I.

796
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 4: Know, yeah, thanks for making those conversations awkward. Uh, appreciate

797
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 4: state extra Uh none needed pressure big government, which is

798
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 4: such a non such a big government thing to do.

799
00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 3: It's quite the opposite anyway.

800
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 4: No, no, I'm like Jesus walking away from the cliff,

801
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 4: not doing the soapbox.

802
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 6: Now.

803
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 4: I think we're all aligned on that because we're pretty

804
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 4: reasonable entities. But all right, So THEO negotiates with Satan

805
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 4: and he comes to regret his decision. This story has

806
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 4: kind of an happy ending, so it's either soon after

807
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 4: or several years into the game. He says, you know what, guys,

808
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 4: that's a boof on my part. I botched it. I

809
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 4: watched the whole thing. I'm publicly confessing I'm going to

810
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 4: make amends with the guy who's that other bishop, and

811
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 4: I'm gonna pray, I'm going to make a big to

812
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 4: do about it in front of the congregation, and I'm

813
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 4: going to fast like I am going on a hard

814
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 4: super starvation level fast, and eventually that other bishop burns

815
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 4: what THEO says is his contract with Satan and saves

816
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:52,439
Speaker 4: his soul.

817
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 3: So there's no torture in this one, Okay.

818
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 5: It does imply, though, that that was a binding in

819
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 5: some way contract and then required some form of intervention

820
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 5: to nullify. So this does not necessarily follow that whole like,

821
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 5: the soul is not yours to sell.

822
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 3: Right exactly?

823
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, denominational difference. I mean, you may have never heard

824
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 4: of THEO, folks, but this story may sound ierly familiar,

825
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 4: and that's because it's the basis for the most famous

826
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 4: example of soul selling ever Faust Man Love the Faust Story.

827
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 5: Also an excellent German experimental band from the seventies Faust

828
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 5: Love Them. Yeah, And it's also the you know, the

829
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 5: basis of many of the Doctor Faustus. Of course, the

830
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 5: play there is the opera Faust. I mean, this is

831
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 5: an incredibly repeated and kind of styled on version of

832
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 5: this exact trope.

833
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like THEO, Faust is a real dude. The

834
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 4: inspiration for the Faustian tale of Interaction with the Devil

835
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 4: does feature a guy named Johann George Faust living in

836
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,359
Speaker 4: the late fourteen hundreds to mid fifteen hundreds, prime time

837
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 4: to sell your soul in Western Europe. And this guy, Okay,

838
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 4: it's interesting because historians are divided. He's either a wandering alchemist,

839
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 4: astrologer and magician or a hedge wizard, or he's just

840
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 4: a con man and a heretic.

841
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 5: Hey, look, one man's wizard is another man's con man,

842
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 5: flash heretic.

843
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 6: Oh, things can be true.

844
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 2: You could be all of.

845
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:32,919
Speaker 3: It exactly right.

846
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 4: Sometimes the magic works and sometimes you've just rigged the deck.

847
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 5: So I mean, Merlin was a bit of a huckster,

848
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 5: you know, in his own way, but he also did

849
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 5: have some powers. But he loved a power move, and

850
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 5: he was a manipulator.

851
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 4: I love the We've referenced it before, but I love

852
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 4: the description Twain has in a Connecticut yankee in King

853
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 4: Arthur's court, because the yankee is really interested in figuring

854
00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 4: out if Merlin can do actual magic and he has

855
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 4: this moment this is not a spoiler for the story,

856
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,240
Speaker 4: which is great. He has this moment where he thinks,

857
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,760
Speaker 4: holy crap, this merly guy one can't do real magic.

858
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 4: And two he drank his own flavor eight, like he

859
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 4: thinks he can do magic and he's surprised that it

860
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 4: doesn't work every time.

861
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 6: That's funny.

862
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 4: Maybe Faust is like that. Maybe he fell for his

863
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 4: own story. He's an educated fellow, right, yeah, yes, yeah,

864
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 4: he is in the story for sure. After his death,

865
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 4: the real Faust, he becomes the main character this folk legend.

866
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 4: And as he said, Noel Faust is real smarty pants.

867
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 4: He's an autodidact. He's what will later be called or

868
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 4: renaissance man. He is unhappy with life, even though he

869
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 4: because he knows most things, but he wants to know everything.

870
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:51,720
Speaker 3: And he's party.

871
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's party pretty hard, but he wants to have

872
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 4: all the hardest of parties.

873
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 6: Isn't that funny?

874
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: Though?

875
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,760
Speaker 6: I mean, even the creation Smith or whatever.

876
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 5: I don't mean to be dismissive, but Adam and Eve,

877
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 5: the idea that the snake convinced Eve to eat from

878
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 5: the tree of knowledge knowledge is almost cast as like

879
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 5: you shouldn't have all the knowledge. That can be damning

880
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 5: or it can be corrupting, right, sure.

881
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 4: I mean intelligence after a certain threshold is not evolutionarily advantageous, unfortunately.

882
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 4: But that's the But this is okay, this is our guy.

883
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 4: So there's something like Icarus esque about him. He wants more.

884
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 4: He wants to get closer and closer to the sun

885
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 4: here figuratively speaking. So he knows a lot already, he

886
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 4: just doesn't know everything. He leverages his knowledge of the

887
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 4: dark arts. He goes to a crossroads, makes the right sigils,

888
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 4: signs and incantations, and he attempts to summon Satan. The

889
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 4: actual Satan doesn't appear, but to our earlier point, he

890
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 4: sends one of his boys. He sends his representative Mephistopheles,

891
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 4: really cool name, and Mephistopheles makes it deal with him.

892
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 4: He says, look, Faust, you could tell magic is real.

893
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 4: I got a lot of these demon superpowers, and if

894
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 4: you agree to give me your soul in the future,

895
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 4: then I will be at your beck and call. You

896
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 4: can ask me Mephistopheles do this magic thing and boom,

897
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 4: it's gonna be done.

898
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 3: Buddy, don't worry about it.

899
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 4: I got you for a number of years, and Faust

900
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 4: is like, what happens after you know, seven years?

901
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 3: That's a common one.

902
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 2: What happened to he was like six or seven years?

903
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 2: Like six six, seven years, because.

904
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 4: It varies depending on the story, but it's a specific

905
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 4: window of time. And after that time period expires, Faust

906
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 4: will be damned, be erased from earth, and he will

907
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 4: his soul will labor an eternal slavery.

908
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 6: And he's cool with this. Wasn't a bait and switch?

909
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 6: Does he really spell it all out for him?

910
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 3: Yes?

911
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how the D and D alignment of h

912
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 4: was it legalistic evil?

913
00:49:59,200 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 6: Dylan?

914
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 3: What's that? Lawful evil?

915
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 6: Lawful evil Indians?

916
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, So at this point it's really hard to

917
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 5: feel bad for old FAUSTI he knows exactly what he's doing.

918
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 5: He's not really being tricked. There's no monkey's paw hidden

919
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 5: consequences here. It's all spelled out for him. He just

920
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 5: wants it that bad.

921
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 2: Hmm.

922
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

923
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,919
Speaker 4: He's fine with it at first, because future Faust might

924
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 4: as well be a different person, a stranger, just the

925
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 4: way like Sunday Bin or next Day nol or Matt

926
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 4: Tomorrow might all be different people if you want to

927
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 4: have a lazy Saturday. So he and Mephistopheles get into

928
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 4: all sorts of shenanigans. I don't know why I had

929
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 4: spurts of shenanigans there. I think I was doing a joke.

930
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 3: But all right.

931
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 4: So in the Tragical History of the Life and Death

932
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 4: of Doctor Faustus, that's one by Marlow, things do not

933
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 4: end well. Faust does try to get out of his

934
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 4: contract unsuccessfully. He wrongs a bunch of people on the way,

935
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 4: and he does not hit redemption.

936
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 3: He goes to hell.

937
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 5: Well, it's also one of those things where past you

938
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 5: making a deal that future you might not really be

939
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 5: as excited about. It's another example, or at least the

940
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 5: parable here, I guess where it's about kind of not writing,

941
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 5: having your mouth write a check that you're whatever can't cash,

942
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,359
Speaker 5: you know, down the line, it's like, oh my god,

943
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 5: why did I do that. It's really important to think

944
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,240
Speaker 5: ahead and think about future you a little bit, because

945
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 5: I guess I was a little foggy on the fact

946
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 5: that he knew the consequences. He just thought it was

947
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 5: worth it. And if I'm not mistaken, at least in

948
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 5: some of the dramatizations. He sort of finds love in

949
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 5: that period and is like very much like finds the

950
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 5: happiness that he always wanted outs and realizes maybe that

951
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 5: all of those worldly things aren't that important and sort

952
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 5: of grows.

953
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 3: A little bit.

954
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 6: Only that'd be rug pulled.

955
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 5: When the time comes and the devil come shows up

956
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 5: and calls in his bargain.

957
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 6: Right he does.

958
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 4: In a later story, the one by Gerta, Faust does

959
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 4: turn things around at the end, and it's like you

960
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 4: were saying, no, it's thanks to the love of a

961
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 4: woman that he did wrong and in a very serious way.

962
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 4: But she sticks by him, and then he has serious

963
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 4: acts of penitence toward God, and because this woman intercedes

964
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 4: for him, are on his behalf to pray for his forgiveness.

965
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 4: He starts to turn around a little earlier than in

966
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 4: the original story. He reaches the end of the contract,

967
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 4: he says.

968
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 3: Ah, you know, maybe now that I am.

969
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 4: Future false Faust, maybe this was a bad idea. Oh

970
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 4: past Faust, you jackass. So he does. In the second version,

971
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 4: he does reach redemption. This is the basis for countless

972
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 4: other works of film and fiction. You don't have to

973
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 4: read this story or the plays to know it already, just.

974
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 5: The term faust, the embarging it all the time for

975
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 5: just that exact thing where you, in the moment make

976
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 5: a deal that when the time comes you utterly regrets

977
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 5: and is not ultimately in your best interest.

978
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 2: The story is a nice inversion of the late fourteen hundreds, well,

979
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 2: let's say the fourteen hundreds, fifteen hundreds, any a lot

980
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 2: of time before that where only women could become servants

981
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 2: of the devil. And that's at least in the Malleus maleficarum.

982
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 2: That's one of the things. You had to be a

983
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 2: woman to be a servant of the devil in one

984
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 2: of these things, or you had to be tempted essentially

985
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 2: by one of these witches to take yourself in. At

986
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 2: least in this case, it's a male figure that is

987
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 2: doing the wrong stuff and being tempted and is the

988
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 2: bad guy.

989
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 4: Oh and in another case, even popes have been accused

990
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 4: of selling their souls. Pope Sylvester the Second he was

991
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 4: a real smart guy. He is credited with inventing things

992
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 4: like a kind of pendulum clock and the hydraulic organ is. Also,

993
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 4: he's often cited as one of the reasons Western Europe

994
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 4: started using the Arabic numeral system, which was controversial. He

995
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 4: never publicly said he sold his soul, but when he died,

996
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 4: because so many popes have enemies in the church and

997
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 4: they all kind of hate each other. After he died,

998
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 4: these rumors started spreading, and all his critics said, you

999
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:19,720
Speaker 4: know what, nobody is actually that smart on their own.

1000
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:21,399
Speaker 6: Now did he do it? Well?

1001
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 4: Was he reading books like a nerd?

1002
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 2: Nah?

1003
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 6: Nah had to have been the devil. Yeah, that's true.

1004
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 5: All those inventions, this idea of that profound knowledge kind

1005
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,720
Speaker 5: of you know, going back to the idea of knowledge

1006
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 5: being corrupting or in some way from the forces.

1007
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 6: Of the infernal.

1008
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 5: This was more than anything, like you said, Ben, a

1009
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 5: product of politicking. You know, the people who were against

1010
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 5: Sylvester may have genuinely believed that he was up to something,

1011
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 5: but it's more likely that they didn't like that dialogue

1012
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 5: you mentioned man with some of the great thinkers of

1013
00:54:58,320 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 5: the Arab world.

1014
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 6: They considered that perhaps to be a bit of heresy.

1015
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 4: Absolutely right, because you think Islamophobia is bad, now.

1016
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 3: Go back a few centuries.

1017
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 5: Wasn't he also one that was trying to kind of

1018
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 5: root out some of the corrupt forces of corruption within

1019
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 5: the organization the church.

1020
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 4: One hundred percent right, and I love that you're bringing

1021
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 4: that up. It was specifically he was specifically fighting against

1022
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 4: the widespread practice of something called semone spelled like simon

1023
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:34,839
Speaker 4: with a y, indulgences, buy in or selling of offices,

1024
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,760
Speaker 4: just financial corruption in the church, which continues today.

1025
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 5: That's right, Yeah, tithing and stuff, I mean whatever like

1026
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 5: tithe you give your money to whatever cause you think

1027
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 5: is worthy of it. But there has historically been example,

1028
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 5: many examples of monetary corruption, whether it be you know,

1029
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,720
Speaker 5: buy your way to a clean slate, or the ability

1030
00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 5: to eat butter when you want the.

1031
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 4: Right exactly, or to break the diet and fasting rules

1032
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 4: that kind of thing, right, we also know. Look, those

1033
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 4: are some of the fancy historical versions of selling one

1034
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 4: soul to the devil. But there's an entirely different genre

1035
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,919
Speaker 4: of story, which is I think a lot more fun full.

1036
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 4: Keyros who managed the witten chance to outsmart infernal powers.

1037
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 4: They get one over on the forces of hell being

1038
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 4: here in the fair metropolis of Atlanta, folks. Our most

1039
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 4: familiar reference to this is the song that Devil Went

1040
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 4: down to Georgia.

1041
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 6: Remember that, looking for a soul to steal?

1042
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, oh man.

1043
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 6: Fire on the Mountain run by.

1044
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 5: It's really good, Charlie Daniels excellent, excellent, excellent tune and

1045
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,839
Speaker 5: such a cool story. And again this faustianbarroom, but it's

1046
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:52,359
Speaker 5: flipped because our boy Johnny is going toe to toe

1047
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 5: with the devil and he comes out on top.

1048
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 6: He's not really making a deal.

1049
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 2: He's just that.

1050
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:58,280
Speaker 3: Good and he's ballsy.

1051
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is a shred in that fiddle, by the way, Yes,

1052
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 5: that's what we're talking about.

1053
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 2: The original version of this would be he goes down

1054
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 2: to Georgia and makes deal with the devil so he

1055
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 2: can play the fiddle the way he can, right. I

1056
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 2: don't know though, but that's the way a bargain would be.

1057
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 2: The original troupe, Yeah I can. What I'm saying is

1058
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 2: this is an inversion of exactly. It's a beautiful it's

1059
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 2: really neat.

1060
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 4: And this is an echo of all sorts of similar

1061
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 4: folkloric stories of the the kind of unconventional Maverick character

1062
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 4: who may not be book smart, but they have a

1063
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 4: lot of street smarts, like old Bittenbinder from Milany's childhood.

1064
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 4: Another example of this is Samander the Learned, who's an

1065
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 4: Icelandic folk hero or I guess Samander the Learned he

1066
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:52,439
Speaker 4: was an Icelandic priest and scholar from like the ten

1067
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 4: hundreds to the eleven hundreds.

1068
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 3: Also is a real dude.

1069
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 4: Also, when he died, he became a larger than life

1070
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 4: folklore character. And this guy routinely tricks the Devil into

1071
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 4: helping him out with stuff so many stories that honestly,

1072
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 4: the Devil looks kind of like a klutz in agon.

1073
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 5: Can I also just really quickly double back to Johnny

1074
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 5: and devil went down.

1075
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 6: He does make a bargain.

1076
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 5: The bargain is, if I can't outplay you, you.

1077
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 6: Get my soul.

1078
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 5: And if I do, then I get a gold fiddle,

1079
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 5: a magical gold fiddle. But it's not like he's making

1080
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 5: the bargain in order to achieve his abilities. He's already

1081
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 5: got those, and he's basically saying, yeah, I'll go toe

1082
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 5: to toe with you, the devil.

1083
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 6: And if you lose, the devil will get your soul.

1084
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 4: The devil said, I'll start this show in fire flew

1085
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 4: from his fingers as he rossed his boat.

1086
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 6: Oh okay, nope, getting too far into it.

1087
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 5: Y'all listen to it if you have, I'm sure it's

1088
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 5: a good hang from front to back. Just give it

1089
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 5: a listen. It's a really good Halloween song.

1090
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 4: It's somehow not uh not awkward country hip hop.

1091
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 2: Yes, and it's not the greatest song in the world,

1092
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 2: but it is.

1093
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 3: It's a tribute.

1094
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 4: Yeah. So back to Iceland. In several different stories, we

1095
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 4: see things like one example would be Simon Deer goes

1096
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 4: to the devil and says, I need I need a

1097
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 4: trip back home to Iceland from Europe, and I'll make

1098
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 4: a deal with you. You change into a seal and

1099
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 4: carry me across the waters, and then at the end,

1100
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 4: I'll give you my soul. And at the end, instead

1101
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 4: of giving up his soul, maybe this is funnier in

1102
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 4: icelandic or sounds more clever. He bonks Satan on the

1103
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 4: head with a Bible while Satan is still a seal,

1104
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 4: and then he runs away.

1105
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 5: That's pretty funny, like, oh no, if if I weren't

1106
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 5: a seal, I would I would get you.

1107
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 4: How did he know about the bonk and run clause

1108
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 4: also makes me think of like, you know what the

1109
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 4: devil I will sell you my soul for double the

1110
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 4: Delta sky miles. You know, like it's a little bit

1111
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 4: of an underwhelming deal.

1112
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 6: He's getting a ride.

1113
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

1114
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, in those days

1115
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 5: it was you know, a lot need to navigate that

1116
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:19,920
Speaker 5: kind of journey. But still you think he would have

1117
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 5: asked for a few little add ons.

1118
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 4: He does swindle Satan into teaching him the Dark Arts

1119
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 4: and Iceland's version of the Scholomance or the Black School,

1120
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 4: and he escapes every single time in the story. If

1121
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 4: you like stories about school amounts and dark arts institutions,

1122
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 4: please check out Crabat. I think in English it's The

1123
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 4: Satanic Mill. It's a young adult story that I recently

1124
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 4: reread and it is just a banger for Halloween.

1125
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 2: Nice.

1126
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, the Satanic Mill. I think if you were for

1127
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 4: anybody who wants to give a kid a spooky story,

1128
01:00:58,720 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 4: I would say this is a pro.

1129
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 3: If you're like ten or eleven.

1130
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 4: I think would be the entry level for that story.

1131
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 2: Heck, yeah, that's awesome. I was gonna ask you to

1132
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 2: spell it because how k R A B A T

1133
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 2: got it?

1134
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 6: Awesome?

1135
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 2: Guys, can you imagine writing a seal through the waters

1136
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 2: that between Iceland and wherever you're heading to in Europe.

1137
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 6: Doesn't seem like you make It seems feels like it depends.

1138
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 4: I had a seal too, you know, yeah, but it

1139
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 4: feels like one wouldn't do the job, and there are

1140
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 4: other there are literally other creatures in the sea that

1141
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 4: would be better at transport.

1142
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 5: And doesn't this also sort of reminds you of like

1143
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 5: Greek mythology, like Zeus turning into a swan and having

1144
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 5: intercourse with the woman and all of that kind of

1145
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, Like it just it has

1146
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 5: that certain fantastical quality to it, Like, I don't know,

1147
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 5: this is meant to be taken at face value.

1148
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 4: Maybe he got caught getting sexy with a seal in

1149
01:01:57,960 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 4: real life and had to come up with a story

1150
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 4: to rationalize it.

1151
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 5: Gay, stranger things have happened, Christianity was born.

1152
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 4: Yes, right, there's another guy, John Fian. This is a

1153
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 4: not a fol hero story. This is one of the

1154
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 4: darker ones. This is what we mean when we talk

1155
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 4: about political assassination. Here's the tale, Dylan. If we could

1156
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 4: get some old timey like court music, something with a fife.

1157
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 4: I don't know, you're the expert at this. So it's

1158
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 4: fifteen eighty nine.

1159
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 3: There's a guy.

1160
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 4: Named King James the sixth of Scotland. He's going to

1161
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 4: marry a lady named Princess Anne of Denmark. The princess

1162
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 4: sails to Scotland and the weather turns on them, so

1163
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 4: her crew has to call the journey short and find

1164
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 4: shelter in Norway. They blame the storms on malevolent witches,

1165
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 4: and the King is saying, these witches.

1166
01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 6: Are trying to ruin our marriage.

1167
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 4: And because this wasn't just you know, some random dude

1168
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 4: or cheesemonger or fishmonger, because it was the King saying this,

1169
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 4: Denmark and Scotland instituted large scale inquisitions and for two

1170
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:15,959
Speaker 4: years they hunted sorcerers all because the weather was bad

1171
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 4: when they were trying to make this marriage happen. King

1172
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 4: James personally supervised some of the tortures and examinations, and

1173
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 4: one guy got accused was doctor John fiah Fiam.

1174
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 5: He was named by another suspected practitioner of the dark

1175
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 5: arts named Gillis Duncan. Again, under extreme torture, Gillis confessed

1176
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 5: or stated or began rather to name names all sorts

1177
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 5: of people that they counted as witchy colleagues or lucky

1178
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 5: colleagues as well. And the inquisitors were super into this information.

1179
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 6: As you'd imagine they might be.

1180
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 4: M Yeah, they like every aspect of it. Man, and

1181
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 4: they tortured the heck out of John. Initially he said

1182
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 4: I had nothing to confess, and then beat the crap

1183
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 4: out of him, beat the tar out of him, beat

1184
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 4: the Christ out of him. They burned him, they broke

1185
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 4: his bones, you name it. We don't have to get

1186
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 4: into all the ways they tortured him, but if you

1187
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 4: can picture most forms of torture, they probably did it.

1188
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 4: And so finally he confesses and he says, Okay, my

1189
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 4: soul belongs to the devil. I made a deal with

1190
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:29,040
Speaker 4: the devil a long time ago. And then he starts,

1191
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 4: similar to like killers who were locked up for life,

1192
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 4: who make false confessions to get favors in prison. He

1193
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 4: starts regaling the court with all these stories. He says,

1194
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 4: you know, I've bewitched women and men alike. It doesn't

1195
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 4: matter to me. Also, one time I had a spell

1196
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 4: that went wrong, so I slept with a cow my bag.

1197
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 5: Have you thought about just the simple answer that the

1198
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 5: longer he's telling compelling stories in real time.

1199
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 6: That's time that they won't be torturing him. Just literally,

1200
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 6: that simple.

1201
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 5: If you keep gabbing, keep yapping about devil stuff, they're

1202
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 5: gonna be listening intently rather than shoving hot metal rods

1203
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 5: up your pee hole.

1204
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, similar to one thousand and one Arabian Nights right

1205
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 4: where if you keep telling the stories, you can put

1206
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 4: off your death.

1207
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 6: It's like a filibuster, you know it is. He philibustered.

1208
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 6: He philibustered.

1209
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 4: The court noel, and he does promise to renounce Satan.

1210
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:27,160
Speaker 4: He said, the devil came to visit me in the night,

1211
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 4: the white wand in his hand. He persuaded, tried to

1212
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 4: persuade me to keep his vow and serve him. But

1213
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 4: I castigated the arch fiend, telling him I utterly forsake

1214
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 4: thee utterly utterly cow jokes and so so the devil

1215
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 4: supposedly breaks the white wand and says that once air

1216
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 4: thou die, thou shalt be mine. So he's like, look, whatever,

1217
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 4: you can't break the deal. When you die, John, I'm

1218
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 4: coming for you. The court believed most of his story,

1219
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 4: by the way, and he eventually escapes custody, he steals

1220
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 4: the gelhouse key, he goes on the lamb. The authorities

1221
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 4: catch up to him, and this time they just torture.

1222
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,000
Speaker 3: Him to kill him. They're not really asking questions.

1223
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, just for funzies at this point.

1224
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 3: Just for funzies.

1225
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 4: And I guess we should end on some more positive things. Musicians, right,

1226
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 4: Musicians are big part of selling one Soul?

1227
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 3: Are they all stories?

1228
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 5: And that's Charlie Daniels tune is very much inspired by

1229
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 5: this Robert Johnson story for example, that you also beautifully quoted.

1230
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 5: I don't think we read it at the beginning of

1231
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 5: the episode in the dock here me and the Devil

1232
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 5: was walking by my side, Me and the devil who

1233
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 5: was walking by my side from Me and the Devil

1234
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 5: Blues by Robert Johnson.

1235
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, this is interesting.

1236
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 4: Well fast forward for one Paganini. We should mention we

1237
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 4: got a ridiculous history episode about this. It's a violinist

1238
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 4: kind of like you know Nicolo Paganini is he's a

1239
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 4: rock star musician and he was.

1240
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 6: Beloved by the ladies and he could shred that fetal

1241
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 6: for sure.

1242
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was real weird with it, like a like

1243
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 7: a nineteen eighties heavy metal lead guitarist the way he

1244
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:14,919
Speaker 7: played violin, and people started joking he sold his soul

1245
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,080
Speaker 7: to the devil so he could be a good violinist.

1246
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 4: But here's the thing. It started as a joke, and

1247
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 4: then some people, maybe more credulous people, would go see

1248
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:28,520
Speaker 4: him perform in concert, and then more than one of

1249
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 4: those folks would walk away thinking, holy crap, maybe he

1250
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 4: did sell his soul.

1251
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 6: He was just that good. He was just that good.

1252
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 3: But that's dud, dude.

1253
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 6: Check out that episode.

1254
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 5: There's some other interesting details that I remember being surprised

1255
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 5: by from that story.

1256
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the name's just fun to say.

1257
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 4: Paganini pagan I don't I don't know what it reminds

1258
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 4: me of, but it's something delicious.

1259
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 5: Reminds me of the guy that created I don't know

1260
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 5: why Peyo was his name.

1261
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 6: Now it's unrelated.

1262
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 4: I think maybe they're all related. Press sandwiches, the Smurfs,

1263
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 4: and devil worshiping violinist.

1264
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 6: I would sell my soul for a good pressed sandwich. Yeah,

1265
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 6: I would sell.

1266
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 4: I want to get into the idea of fractional soul

1267
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 4: selling or can you lease your soul?

1268
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 3: Can you like?

1269
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 6: Can you sell a portion of it, subleist.

1270
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 4: Exactly what other financial mechanism should we apply to the

1271
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,639
Speaker 4: soul selling market. I feel like there are futures here.

1272
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:28,480
Speaker 4: There's plenty speculation options, commodity.

1273
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 6: And sell a put or a call. You can still

1274
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:35,760
Speaker 6: fully understand you can short someone's soul, all right.

1275
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 4: The last one, the one that you set up so

1276
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 4: beautifully there, Robert or Bobby Johnson versus Tommy Johnson. Robert

1277
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 4: Johnson's the guy you're going to hear about the most.

1278
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:49,840
Speaker 4: He's featured in O Brother, where Art thou Stude who

1279
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 4: sold his soul at the crossroads to the devil. The

1280
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 4: devil showed up in midnight, tuned his guitar, he made

1281
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:58,679
Speaker 4: a deal. But that story is based on an earlier

1282
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 4: guy named Tommy Johnson and from the Mississippi Delta, United States,

1283
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 4: very active in the movement that was sometimes called the

1284
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 4: Delta Blues, sometimes called the Devil's Blues.

1285
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 5: Well, and I don't believe it's certainly meant to be

1286
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 5: a one to one of this character.

1287
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:15,519
Speaker 6: But in.

1288
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 5: Sinners, oh yeah, there's a great character who's sort of

1289
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 5: the prospective character who the movie starts off with him

1290
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,639
Speaker 5: wandering into the church with his smash guitar and looking

1291
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 5: all at them, and you wonder what happened to this guy,

1292
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:31,559
Speaker 5: and your mind immediately jumps to dude made a deal

1293
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 5: with the devil so that he could, you know, rock

1294
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 5: that sweet sweet delta blues.

1295
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's weird to hear historical accounts of Tommy Johnson,

1296
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:42,839
Speaker 4: who is again a real person, so is Robert Johnson.

1297
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 6: But there's recordings.

1298
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:46,479
Speaker 5: There are absolutely you know, you can find really cool

1299
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 5: sounding archival recordings of Robert Johnson just haunting.

1300
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:53,040
Speaker 4: I love it, and so guy's absolute legend. The thing

1301
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 4: with Tommy Johnson is, according to people who were around

1302
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:01,600
Speaker 4: at the time, who are on record, Tommy Johnson originally

1303
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 4: was not that good at guitar. They said he was

1304
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 4: just making noise, and he got run out of juke

1305
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 4: joints when the audience didn't dig his stuff. So he disappears,

1306
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:13,320
Speaker 4: and when he comes back.

1307
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 6: He's really really good.

1308
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 4: And people couldn't explain the sudden jump in talent and

1309
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 4: acumen and ability, and so he said, I got a tip.

1310
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 4: You visit the crossroads at midnight, this mysterious stranger meets you.

1311
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 4: Tune trick guitar, make a deal with him, you become

1312
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:35,719
Speaker 4: the world's best musician. And aside from the supernatural stuff,

1313
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 4: the timeline, the chain of events seems legit. Tommy Johnson

1314
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:42,879
Speaker 4: leaned into this too because it was great marketing.

1315
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 6: Clearly we're talking about it today.

1316
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 4: Robert Johnson leaned into it kind of the way like

1317
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 4: Alice Cooper might lean into satanic rumors, even though, as

1318
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 4: Wayne's World proved, he's like the nicest guy.

1319
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:58,880
Speaker 6: Does this guy know how to party or what?

1320
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 5: I saw Alice Cooper at a local music festival a

1321
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:06,320
Speaker 5: handful of years ago, and it was one of the

1322
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 5: coolest live shows I've ever seen. Had a giant spooky

1323
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 5: castle backdrop and like a guillatine comes out at one

1324
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 5: point he cuts his head.

1325
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:15,479
Speaker 6: Off, and it's so theatrical. It was a lot of fun.

1326
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 6: Highly recommend checking out Alice Cooper if he comes.

1327
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 4: Around and then he like goes backstage and puts on

1328
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 4: his comfy socks and has some earl gray.

1329
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:26,440
Speaker 5: He loves playing golf too, and he also apparently volunteers

1330
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 5: at his local soup kitchen like a regular, really good guy.

1331
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 4: Cool guy. We also, okay, there was one twist. There

1332
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:35,040
Speaker 4: are so many other examples.

1333
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:37,720
Speaker 5: Tommy and Robert not are they just kind of interchanged

1334
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:40,759
Speaker 5: because they're similar, and the story sort of gets attributed

1335
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:42,519
Speaker 5: to both because I guess I didn't know about Tommy,

1336
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:44,719
Speaker 5: but I certainly know about rob Yeah.

1337
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:46,720
Speaker 4: The story gets kind of muddied. And even though they

1338
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 4: have the same last name, they're not related. But they're

1339
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 4: real phenomenal musicians, And we'd love to hear your favorite

1340
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:56,760
Speaker 4: folk tales about the devil. Please send him our way.

1341
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 4: We are sponges for this. It's always a good read.

1342
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 4: If here's the twist or the weird thing I wanted

1343
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:06,360
Speaker 4: to ask you guys about. As we approach the end

1344
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:12,639
Speaker 4: of tonight's episode, returning to the concept of how certain

1345
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 4: denominations of Christianity feel, it is impossible to sell one's

1346
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 4: soul or it is possible, is it logically not also

1347
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:29,240
Speaker 4: kind of selling your soul when you accept Christianity, when

1348
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 4: you sign up for that version of guy, you're just

1349
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:32,120
Speaker 4: selling it to the good guys.

1350
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 5: No, that's cool, man, that's the one that that's the

1351
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 5: one we accept. That one's fine. Yes, of course it

1352
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 5: is right. They even described it that way. And the

1353
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 5: rhetoric or if youth group kind of talk giving your

1354
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:44,879
Speaker 5: soul to Jesus, giving your soul.

1355
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 6: To God, you know, give yourself.

1356
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 5: But I think that's interesting because the implication is if

1357
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 5: God truly was the creator and created you, then doesn't

1358
01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 5: he already own your soul?

1359
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:55,879
Speaker 6: Do you really have to give it willingly?

1360
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:59,080
Speaker 5: The whole idea of giving it willingly always strikes me

1361
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:01,720
Speaker 5: as a little interesting, convenient in terms of that look,

1362
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 5: that aspect of control.

1363
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 6: Mm hmm.

1364
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, It's just something I've been I've been pondering, just

1365
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 4: on an academic philosophical level.

1366
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:10,720
Speaker 3: I'd love to hear.

1367
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 6: I love to hear everybody's thoughts on this.

1368
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know, do you guys believe it's

1369
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 4: possible for someone to actually sell their soul? In bonus question,

1370
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 4: if you could name one person right now that might

1371
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 4: have pulled it off, who would that person be?

1372
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:27,640
Speaker 3: I'd love to hear from you.

1373
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:30,400
Speaker 5: Folks don't understand the logistics of it. How does one

1374
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 5: transfer a soul? Do you get to does it stay

1375
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:32,960
Speaker 5: inside of you?

1376
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:34,280
Speaker 3: Do you get like a stamp?

1377
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 6: Is it going a jar?

1378
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:38,000
Speaker 4: Is it like bitcoin? Do you have like a Ledger

1379
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 4: and a little secret number or code?

1380
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 5: But it also been I mean, we didn't really talk

1381
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:45,560
Speaker 5: much about this, but the soul, as it's described in

1382
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:47,559
Speaker 5: a lot of these religions is the life force.

1383
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:49,879
Speaker 6: Y is the thing that makes you alive.

1384
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 5: And if I'm not mistaken, there was another Simpsons thing

1385
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,640
Speaker 5: where Bart sells his soul and he all of a

1386
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:59,240
Speaker 5: sudden like he doesn't he can't like do normal people

1387
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 5: things are he so of like he's not a ghost,

1388
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 5: but he sort of got ghost like qualities. It sort

1389
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:07,320
Speaker 5: of speaks to that idea of you are no longer

1390
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:10,720
Speaker 5: human when you don't have your soul or present on

1391
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:11,959
Speaker 5: the earth exactly.

1392
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 2: Perhaps you've become some sort of demi god, and then

1393
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 2: you could begin in blazing your name and gold letters

1394
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:23,719
Speaker 2: across buildings and properties things throughout the earth.

1395
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:24,719
Speaker 6: Ball rams.

1396
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 8: I'm a humanist, Kevin, maybe the last humanist schlocky delightful film.

1397
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:36,839
Speaker 3: Who are you carrying?

1398
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 6: All? No?

1399
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 4: No, not you guys have to put up with that

1400
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,200
Speaker 4: too much for me, Folks. We can't wait to hear

1401
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:45,559
Speaker 4: your thoughts. Happy Halloween. This will be coming. This will

1402
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 4: be coming to you after the actual holiday, but hey,

1403
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 4: it's always Halloween in America, So tell us your thoughts.

1404
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:54,760
Speaker 4: You can find us online. You can call us on

1405
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:56,200
Speaker 4: the phone. You can reach us on email.

1406
01:14:56,680 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 6: That's a right.

1407
01:14:57,120 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 5: Find us in the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist

1408
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 5: on Facebook with our faceboo a group here's where it

1409
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:03,839
Speaker 5: gets crazy, on x fk a Twitter, and on YouTube

1410
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:06,360
Speaker 5: with video content glor If you're a perusal.

1411
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:08,679
Speaker 6: On Instagram and TikTok, however, we're Conspiracy Stuff.

1412
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 2: Show call our voicemail system one eight three three s

1413
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:15,600
Speaker 2: t d WYTK. When you call in, give your some

1414
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 2: cool nickname and let us know if we can use

1415
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:18,760
Speaker 2: your name and message on the air. If you want

1416
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 2: to send us an email, you can do that too.

1417
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:23,400
Speaker 4: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence

1418
01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:26,439
Speaker 4: we receive. Be well aware yet unafraid. Sometimes the void

1419
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:30,080
Speaker 4: writes back, something wicked this way comes and we hope

1420
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:52,440
Speaker 4: it's an email from you. Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1421
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:54,719
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1422
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1423
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:02,280
Speaker 2: Apple podcas casts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.