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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a

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Speaker 1: licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to

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Speaker 1: find a therapist in your area, visit our website at

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love

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Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not

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Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a

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Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining me for session two ninety five of the Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation

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Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors, y'all. My debut book,

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Speaker 1: Sisterhood Heels, will be out on June twenty seventh, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three, and you can officially pre order your copy

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Speaker 1: right now at Sisterhoodeels dot com. This is such a

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Speaker 1: huge accomplishment and I can't wait for all the incredible

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Speaker 1: conversations I know we're going to have once you get

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Speaker 1: your copy and you can check it out. In honor

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Speaker 1: of this huge milestone, I wanted to share a very

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Speaker 1: special conversation with you today. So at the end of

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Speaker 1: last year, wellness educator Debbie Brown, who many of you

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Speaker 1: know and who's been a guest here on the podcast

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Speaker 1: a few times, invited me to be a guest on

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Speaker 1: her podcast, Dropping Gems. Debbie didn't know it at the time,

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Speaker 1: but I was really struggling with edis to the book

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Speaker 1: at that time, and this one conversation with her reinvigorated

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Speaker 1: my spirit and gave me a whole new excitement about

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Speaker 1: the material. It felt like she had seen the pages

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Speaker 1: even though it wasn't done. I feel like that's how

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Speaker 1: sisterhood works. Sometimes you don't always know what you need,

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Speaker 1: and then a sister shows up with an answer you

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Speaker 1: weren't expecting. In this conversation, we chatted about setting boundaries

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Speaker 1: with compassion in friendship, reciprocity in friendship, and having difficult

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Speaker 1: conversations to hopefully bring us closer. If something resonates with

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Speaker 1: you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us

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Speaker 1: on social media using the hashtag tbg in Session, or

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Speaker 1: join us over in the Sister Circle to talk more

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Speaker 1: in depth about the episode. You can join us at

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Speaker 1: Community that Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation

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Speaker 1: from grandmother's who whispered and they baby girl is to

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Speaker 1: fathers on dimly lit street comers instructing young soldiers to

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Speaker 1: always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you were fired.

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Speaker 1: You will pass through centuries on the hands of your daughters.

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Speaker 1: They caught you wisdom proverbs on the backs of diamond

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Speaker 1: eyed school children who grew into hymnals recited by amethysts

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Speaker 1: holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments out of the

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Speaker 1: windows of restored alchimedo chariots, to keep the warmth of

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Speaker 1: their blood. Be wise, be smart, being black, Opal Brown

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Speaker 1: courts bloodstone and prayer. Be every form of jim So

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Speaker 1: King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife, wife

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Speaker 1: told her daughter, and daughter told the ancestors, and the

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Speaker 1: ancestors told me that you would come to give wisdom

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Speaker 1: to thousands. They said you would come, Dropping Gem, Dropping Gem.

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Speaker 1: Welcome act to another episode of the Dropping Gym's podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Debbie Brown. This is the show where we like

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Speaker 1: to settle into a soft place to land, to unpack ourselves,

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Speaker 1: to grab new tools for the journey and to really

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Speaker 1: expand our consciousness for our highest good. Today's episode is

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Speaker 1: gonna be so doubt oh my gosh. Okay. So, in

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Speaker 1: the pandemic, I had a chance to be connected with

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Speaker 1: an absolutely brilliant, amazing, pioneering woman in a mental health space,

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Speaker 1: and we had a chance to be on a panel together,

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Speaker 1: which then led to a podcast and led to me

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Speaker 1: just really loving and enjoying so much that she offers

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Speaker 1: the world. And today we are ready to dive deep, deep,

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Speaker 1: deep in a way that helps empower us to make

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Speaker 1: better choices and to have lives that feel really nourishing,

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Speaker 1: really full, and deeply connected to the community that we're

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Speaker 1: aligned with. Today's guest is doctor Joy Harden Bradford. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Joy Harder and Bradford is a licensed psychologist, speaker, founder

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Speaker 1: and CEO of Therapy for Black Girls, and host of

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Speaker 1: its widely popular mental health podcast. Her work focuses on

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Speaker 1: making mental health topics more relevant and accessible for Black women,

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Speaker 1: and she specializes in creating spaces for them to have

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Speaker 1: fuller and healthier relationships with themselves and others. She is

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Speaker 1: currently writing her first book, Sisterhood Heels, set to release

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Speaker 1: summer twenty twenty three. Doctor Joy exists at the intersection

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Speaker 1: of psychology and pop culture. It is always an honor

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Speaker 1: and a joy to be in conversation with you. Please

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Speaker 1: welcome to the show, Doctor Joy. Harden Bradford. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for having me. Me deaving such an honor,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Joy. I mean, I feel like I have yet

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Speaker 1: to have the honor of breathing the same error as you.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like we've been so connected since the

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Speaker 1: top of the pandemic. I just remember that moment where

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Speaker 1: I think for many of us it clicked on of

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Speaker 1: I have more tools to offer in this very scary

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Speaker 1: moment for so many Ah, how are you? Oh I

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Speaker 1: am hanging in there, hanging in there. Yeah, I feel

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Speaker 1: like it is really best. I kind of think about it,

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Speaker 1: just putting one foot in front of the other, because

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Speaker 1: even though I mean, we're not out of the pandemic

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Speaker 1: right despite what many would maybe have us believe, there's

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Speaker 1: still a lot going on, and just on top of

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Speaker 1: the pandemic, there's just so many other things happening in

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Speaker 1: the world, and you know, personally, I'm also completing my

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Speaker 1: first book right now, so I just feel like there's

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Speaker 1: just been so much chaos and everything going, so putting

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Speaker 1: one foot in front of the other and kind of

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Speaker 1: holding on is how I'm doing right now. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for that transparency, because speaking to that, I think something

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people might easily assume, especially with

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Speaker 1: someone like yourself, that oh, you don't feel any of this.

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Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people who start on

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Speaker 1: the path, there's this assumption that you'll get to a

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Speaker 1: point where everything will feel good all the time. And

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Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest questions people kind of aim

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Speaker 1: towards me just in my regular life. It's like, oh, so,

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Speaker 1: what do you consider a challenge? And I'm like, oh no, no,

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Speaker 1: every day is challenging. Life is profoundly challenging. I think

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Speaker 1: for me, it's just the reaction or how long it

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Speaker 1: feels like a personal experience shifts and it's different. I'm

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Speaker 1: able to come out of things quicker, or I'm able

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Speaker 1: to hold more neutrality, or just have tools so that

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Speaker 1: I'm able to come back to myself sooner. What does

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Speaker 1: that mean for you when you say you're hanging in

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Speaker 1: there as someone that is a leading mental health professional, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that, Debby, because you know, I do think

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Speaker 1: that there is sometimes that misconception, right that you know,

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Speaker 1: because we are healing professionals or helping professionals, that we

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Speaker 1: are not impacted. But that could not be further from

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Speaker 1: the truth. So a lot of what I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: in terms of hanging in there is like keeping up

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Speaker 1: with my own mental health, which involves weekly sessions with

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Speaker 1: my therapist, because I definitely feel like there has just

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Speaker 1: been so much anxiety for me in the pandemic, just

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Speaker 1: around keeping myself and my family safe and what does

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Speaker 1: this mean? And is it okay to travel? And you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it just feels like there has been a lot,

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Speaker 1: and so therapy has been incredibly grounding for me during

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Speaker 1: this period of the pandemic, but also in writing the book,

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Speaker 1: because I feel like this has been a stretch for

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Speaker 1: me professionally, right, Like it's my first book. It's a

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Speaker 1: new thing that I had not done, and so with

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Speaker 1: any new thing, there's like all these new challenges and like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that that was hiding in that corner, right,

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Speaker 1: So having my thempist to talk about all of those

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Speaker 1: things when it has just been very very grounding and

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Speaker 1: helpful for me. Wow. Wow, I can't wait to dive

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Speaker 1: into talking about this book that comes out. But one

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Speaker 1: thing I'm really curious about you knows as you're speaking

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Speaker 1: to especially the way you were showing up for yourself

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Speaker 1: and for millions of people in the midst of the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Did anything shift about the way you relate to what

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Speaker 1: you do because I can imagine you're under duress as

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Speaker 1: a being, as a human, as a woman with her

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Speaker 1: own life needs responsibilities, and you have to show up

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Speaker 1: at such a high level for those that are coming

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Speaker 1: to you. Did anything start to shift or were there

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Speaker 1: any observations about that time. That's such a good question, Debbie.

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Speaker 1: So I think like you kind of alluded to in

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Speaker 1: the beginning, like in the very beginning of the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: it felt like there was a huge need for people

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Speaker 1: who do the kinds of things that we do, right

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Speaker 1: this healing helping, Like Okay, how do we ground ourselves

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Speaker 1: and make sense of this moment? And so in the

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Speaker 1: beginning there were all these requests, of course, which is

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Speaker 1: how you and not Connected initially was on a panel

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Speaker 1: for somebody, right, there are all these requests for like

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Speaker 1: come teach our group like skills to manage this and

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Speaker 1: come do this and that. And so initially I think

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Speaker 1: it felt like, oh, Okay, well I can do this

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Speaker 1: because I'm home right, Like I'm not even having to

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Speaker 1: travel anywhere to do these things. But I think a

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Speaker 1: couple of months into it, I really begin to feel

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Speaker 1: burned out because even though I'm like doing these presentations

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Speaker 1: and things from home, like, I'm still like on right,

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Speaker 1: so there's still a lot that I'm offering. And so

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Speaker 1: I think I had kind of fooled myself into thinking, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this doesn't feel as strenuous as my schedule was before,

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Speaker 1: when I was you know, in a different city a

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Speaker 1: couple of times a month and you know, really kind

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Speaker 1: of on the road. And so one I think it

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Speaker 1: really caused me to like reimagine like what busy felt like.

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Speaker 1: So it didn't feel busy in the same way, but

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Speaker 1: it was still you know, like extending myself in like

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Speaker 1: holding space for people who are all afraid, right, like

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Speaker 1: we're all just trying to figure out what's happening. And

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Speaker 1: so I think it really led me to reimagine, like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you still have to slow down, right, Like you still

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Speaker 1: can't just be going, going, going, even if it's just

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Speaker 1: in your bedroom doing these presentations. And then I think

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Speaker 1: the next thing though, is that it also led me

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Speaker 1: to having a much deeper appreciation for the work that

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Speaker 1: I do, because I do think during the pandemic and

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Speaker 1: I don't even think we have reached like the peak

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Speaker 1: of the mental health concerns and issues that we're going

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Speaker 1: to have to have as people kind of settle out of,

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Speaker 1: like what is this trauma we've all experienced, right? And

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Speaker 1: so I think it has led me to also have

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Speaker 1: a much deeper appreciation for the work that I do

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Speaker 1: and a much more wanting to be protective of it

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Speaker 1: because it's going to be needed, so really trying to

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Speaker 1: pace myself so that when there is maybe the greatest need,

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Speaker 1: I still have something left to offer. Ah, when I

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Speaker 1: tell you, doctor Joy, the way I relate to everything

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Speaker 1: that you just said, I think myself and for some

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Speaker 1: others that I've spoken to, I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: the people that were the healers and the helpers in

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Speaker 1: that moment in time work just settling into, like I

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Speaker 1: feel with my body, I'm just settling into what two

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Speaker 1: years of that felt like, because when I really look

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Speaker 1: back at it, I spent the pandemic in my house,

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Speaker 1: working more than I've ever worked, and I was showing up,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it did feel like there was ease

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Speaker 1: to it, because I could, you know, have a dresstop,

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Speaker 1: but have my pajama bottoms or you know, you feel

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Speaker 1: comfortable because you're with your things, and I have my

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Speaker 1: favorite things in the fridge within reach, and so there

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Speaker 1: was this comfort in this holding. But I look back

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Speaker 1: and I said, Wow, in the pandemic, I facilitated all

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Speaker 1: of this healing work. And I was in the midst

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Speaker 1: of a divorce and I was raising a child who

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Speaker 1: was two years old, and I was in a pandemic too.

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Speaker 1: And it's just been really interesting seeing the gifts but

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Speaker 1: also really seeing the fatigue of that. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's just starting to come online for some of us

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Speaker 1: as the world quote unquote gets back to normal whatever

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Speaker 1: that means. Whatever that means. Oh, okay, you are in

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Speaker 1: the midst of writing your first book, doctor Joy, And

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Speaker 1: when I have a chance to kind of read up

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Speaker 1: on what it was about, I feel so excited because

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Speaker 1: this conversation your book let me start by saying, is

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Speaker 1: called Sisterhood Heels, and it's set to release summer twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three. That title Sisterhood Heels is so powerful, and

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Speaker 1: I think we are in the midst of creating an

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Speaker 1: entirely new template for what friendship can look like, and

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Speaker 1: especially friendship among women and Black women. There seems to

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Speaker 1: be this evolution in the air, this new understanding of

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Speaker 1: emotional intelligence that people are trying to connect to. So

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Speaker 1: what is this book about? Tell me that thing? So excited?

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Speaker 1: I feel so exciting to chat with you about this, Dabby,

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Speaker 1: because I've also heard you talk about this. I know

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Speaker 1: that this is something that's important to you as well.

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Speaker 1: But when I think about who we have been as

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Speaker 1: black women in like what our history and the country

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Speaker 1: has been and in the world, a lot of our

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Speaker 1: surviving and thriving is connected to one another. And I

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Speaker 1: think I have seen that even more so in the

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Speaker 1: pandemic right just around, like mutual aid exchanges and offering

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Speaker 1: what you have to your community and to your neighbors

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Speaker 1: and all of those kinds of things. And so to me,

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Speaker 1: it is crystal clear, as it always has been, that

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Speaker 1: to get through this thing called life, it has to

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Speaker 1: be together, that we need to do this thing together.

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Speaker 1: And so the book is really all about a lot

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Speaker 1: of my experience has been in facilitating group therapy, and

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Speaker 1: so the book is really about the lessons and things

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Speaker 1: that I have learned from group therapy that can also

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Speaker 1: help us in our individual sisterhoods. So how do we

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Speaker 1: pay attention to the different dynamics that happen in sisterhoods

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Speaker 1: and the changes and if unfortunately a sisterhood has to end,

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Speaker 1: how do you navigate that in a way that's as

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Speaker 1: compassionate and kind as possible. M Okay, take my money. Wow, God,

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Speaker 1: this is so needed. This is so needed, And to

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Speaker 1: what you said, you know, a moment ago, this is

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Speaker 1: so important to me, and it's something especially as it

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Speaker 1: relates to boundaries with people and how we can have

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Speaker 1: boundaries with kindness and compassion that a friendship gently falling off,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be beef. We can still think

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Speaker 1: fondly of each other and just still move forward with

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Speaker 1: our lives. Like these are things that haven't been naturally

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Speaker 1: kind of shared with so many of us or role

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Speaker 1: modeled in any way. I would love to start by

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Speaker 1: grounding this and having especially for everyone listening, doctor Joy,

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Speaker 1: what would be what would you consider to be a

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Speaker 1: healthy dynamic, a healthy template a friendship. What should healthy

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Speaker 1: friendship feel like, look like, be experienced as that's a

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Speaker 1: big question. So the first thing that comes to mind

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Speaker 1: for me is reciprocal. Right, So it should feel like

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Speaker 1: there is space for everybody in the circles to feel

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Speaker 1: like they are getting their needs met but also meeting

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Speaker 1: the needs of other people. And I think when you

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Speaker 1: talk about boundaries like you just did, that is where

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Speaker 1: we often see that not happening. Right, So sometimes there

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Speaker 1: are certain friends who are kind of stepping up a

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Speaker 1: lot and then there is no space or other people

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Speaker 1: are not really kind of doing their part. So the

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Speaker 1: first thing is reciprocal. I also think that it is

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Speaker 1: a space where everybody feels celebrated. So when we think

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Speaker 1: about a circle, like there is no one part of

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Speaker 1: a circle that is like bigger or stronger, that we

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Speaker 1: all come together to make the circle. And so when

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Speaker 1: I think about healthy friendship, I think about a space

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Speaker 1: where everybody feels celebrated and you are able to have

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Speaker 1: your moment, but it doesn't diminish my moment or what

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Speaker 1: can happen for me. So a space where everybody really

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Speaker 1: feels celebrated and also a space where a conflict can

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Speaker 1: be resolved in healthy way. So I think when people

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Speaker 1: hear conflict, they often want to run in the opposite direction.

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Speaker 1: But conflict is natural and normal, like it just means

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Speaker 1: we maybe disagree on some things, and conflict actually can

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Speaker 1: make your relationship stronger. But what really deteriorates our relationships

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Speaker 1: is an avoidance of the conflict, Like we don't want

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Speaker 1: to have the hard conversations, we don't want to save

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Speaker 1: a thing, we don't want to address the elephant in

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Speaker 1: the room, and it actually makes our relationships weaker. So

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Speaker 1: I think healthy friendships also involved an ability to really

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Speaker 1: handle conflict. Wooh okay, hold on, because I already wrote

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Speaker 1: I wrote some notes. I want to go back. The

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Speaker 1: first pillar that you spoke to was the word reciprocal.

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Speaker 1: What is that definition in relationship? I found and I

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Speaker 1: have this clip that a lot of people saw last

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Speaker 1: year where I was saying I'm not available for anything

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Speaker 1: that's not mutually beneficial. And I think everyone's vocabulary, the

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Speaker 1: way they relate to words is different, so so many

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Speaker 1: got it. But then some people are like, mutually beneficial,

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Speaker 1: so someone has to do something for you back, and

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Speaker 1: you know, and it's like, okay, so instead of mutually beneficial,

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Speaker 1: let's use the term mutually supportive. Let's use the term reciprocal.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people when they hear those words,

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Speaker 1: they have this idea of more of a monetary exchange

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Speaker 1: or something that is like you did this check, now

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Speaker 1: I will do this for you. And something that I've

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Speaker 1: tried to share with people is like, even gratitude is reciprocity.

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Speaker 1: Even like a heartfelt gratitude and appreciation for what I'm

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Speaker 1: giving feels reciprocal to me because there is something for

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Speaker 1: me in it as well, There is something that fills me.

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Speaker 1: What is reciprocal in the relationship sense? M I think

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Speaker 1: of it in the simplest form. It's like a natural

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Speaker 1: kind of given take and you're right, Like, it's not

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Speaker 1: a scorecard. It's not like a tally like Okay, I

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Speaker 1: did two things, and so now next week you have

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Speaker 1: to do two things for me. I think it is

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Speaker 1: more of a feeling of being like in a relationship

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Speaker 1: where you know that they have your back and you

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Speaker 1: also have theirs, right, So it doesn't have to mean

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Speaker 1: I did five things nice for you and so now

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Speaker 1: you got to do seven. It is more like, do

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Speaker 1: you feel like if you called on them in your

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Speaker 1: time of need, they would be there? And I think

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Speaker 1: it's important to think about we all are human, right,

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Speaker 1: and so there's all kinds of things that are often

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Speaker 1: happening in our own lives. So there may not be

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Speaker 1: times where we can be there for a friend in

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Speaker 1: the ways that we want to. But I think when

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Speaker 1: you look at the overall picture, the overall history of

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Speaker 1: a friendship, does it feel like more often than not,

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Speaker 1: this is somebody who you know is in your corner,

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Speaker 1: who you can call when times are tough and vice versa. Right, Like,

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Speaker 1: it should not feel like a one sided kind of

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Speaker 1: thing where you're the one always making the calls, always texting,

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Speaker 1: always doing the planning. Like it should feel like everybody

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Speaker 1: has a part in this friendship, and everybody's part doesn't

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Speaker 1: have to be the same kind of part, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think in some friendship dynamics, it's like, well, I

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Speaker 1: threw a big party for you. I wanted a big

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Speaker 1: party too, and it's like, but are you the person

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Speaker 1: that's really good at that? Does that person know how

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Speaker 1: to do that? Did you tell them you wanted that?

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Speaker 1: I think it's as we expand this conversation. It's so

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Speaker 1: important to know that we should be bringing our strengths

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Speaker 1: to our friendship. We should be bringing our gifts to

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Speaker 1: our friendship, which means we'll all be kind of adding

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Speaker 1: to it in so many different ways. You know, I

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Speaker 1: want to touch on something you just said that because

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Speaker 1: I think this is important. So the idea that I

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Speaker 1: threw you a big party and so then I expected

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Speaker 1: that you would also throw me a party, was that

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Speaker 1: expectation actually voiced. So that is one of those things

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Speaker 1: that I think also gets in the way of us

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Speaker 1: having really healthy, full of relationships is that we feel

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Speaker 1: like friendships should be natural, right Like it kind of

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Speaker 1: feels like, oh, we go to school together, you know,

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Speaker 1: in our childhood, that is how we become friends. Right

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Speaker 1: when you are grown up, you have to work a

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Speaker 1: little harder at that. And sometimes what is often missing

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Speaker 1: is that we don't learn that we have to actually

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Speaker 1: voice those expectations and the same way we would do

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Speaker 1: in romantic relationships, it's important to do that in platonic

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Speaker 1: friendships as well in other relationships. So I think that

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Speaker 1: unvoiced expectation and the idea that they should just know

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Speaker 1: that you wanted that to happen, Well, how would they

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Speaker 1: know if you didn't tell them? And it doesn't make

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Speaker 1: them a bad friend because they didn't do it because

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Speaker 1: you didn't let them know that that was actually an expectation. Wow. Wow, Wow,

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Speaker 1: everybody listening, and I want you to sit in that

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Speaker 1: for a second, take a breath, see how that feels,

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Speaker 1: See where you land in that equation, and just notice it.

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Speaker 1: Wow for those listening, because I think, especially for generations

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Speaker 1: that came before right now, we've done an immense amount

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Speaker 1: of unpacking major, major consciousness blocks and concepts over just

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Speaker 1: the last handful of years. Right we have doven into

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Speaker 1: women sexuality, We have dived into race deeper than we've

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Speaker 1: ever gone. Multiple cultures and that experience, especially within America,

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Speaker 1: there have been so many unpackings in a short time.

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Speaker 1: We're all kind of processing that. And I think something

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Speaker 1: that many are coming to notice is a lot of

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Speaker 1: us grew up in communities and households where the adults

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Speaker 1: were emotionally immature and there was just not a role

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Speaker 1: modeling of behavior that can lead you in a life

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Speaker 1: where you feel like a healthy, functioning adult that can

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Speaker 1: meet your own needs. So I think you know a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that are even in friendships and communities

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Speaker 1: that they do love, they don't know anything different. It

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Speaker 1: may not be in the plan for them to uproot

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Speaker 1: and find a new tribe. Are there ways to kind

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Speaker 1: of bring some healing and to upgrade the way we

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Speaker 1: are in friendships with each other without having to find

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Speaker 1: new friends? M I mean, yeah, that's basically the premise

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Speaker 1: of the book is this idea that you know, and

403
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Speaker 1: you're right, like a lot of us have not come

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Speaker 1: from homes where that was role model for us and

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Speaker 1: generations and the generation before them. A lot of what

406
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: they had to do was really survival based, right, So

407
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Speaker 1: there were decisions that they made that unfortunately impacted us

408
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Speaker 1: in some ways that didn't really foster our emotions, but

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, it was what they felt

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Speaker 1: like they had to do. But I do think because

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Speaker 1: we are having these kinds of conversations right now, it

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Speaker 1: provides an excellent opportunity for us to be able to

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Speaker 1: do that healing work with one another. Right, So can

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Speaker 1: I say to you, as my sister out that hurt

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Speaker 1: and that doesn't mean that the friendship ends. It just

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Speaker 1: means that this is now an opportunity for us to

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Speaker 1: talk about it and how can I hold you accountable?

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Speaker 1: How can you learn from that situation? And did not

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Speaker 1: mean that you're a bad person? Right, I think we

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00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 1: have to really look at our defensiveness and how that

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00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: often comes up when we've hurt someone. But it doesn't

422
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Speaker 1: mean that you're bad. It just means out that hurt

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Speaker 1: me and I want to talk about how we can

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Speaker 1: continue to be in relationship and you not do that

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Speaker 1: thing or you not hurt me in that same way

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Speaker 1: in the future. So I think our Sister Circle really

427
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 1: provide an important opportunity for us to actually do that

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Speaker 1: healing work with one another. Wow. Wow, I'm so excited

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Speaker 1: for all of us this time of they're just being

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Speaker 1: more space for vulnerability, and they're being like space for

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Speaker 1: being in practice with the things that you just didn't know,

432
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: you know. I feel like there wasn't as much grace

433
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,479
Speaker 1: for those processes or there just weren't as many people

434
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: trying to do it at the same time previously. Yeah,

435
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: you use a very important word there, David, Practice, Right,

436
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: Like we are all really just practicing being human, like

437
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: there is no perfection and as many you know, workshops

438
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: that we go to and books we read and podcasts

439
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: we listen to, like we're all just practicing, and so

440
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: I think it is really important for us to be

441
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: grace gracious with one another. But I think there has

442
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 1: to be some limits to that, right, So you don't

443
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 1: want to be extending so much grace that you're actually

444
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: betraying yourself, right, you know? So I think that there's

445
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: sometimes work that we need to do individually that needs

446
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: to happen before we're really able to kind of be

447
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: in circles in full ways. So I think that again

448
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: back to our earlier conversation around boundaries, like you can't

449
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: continue to let somebody kind of overstep your boundaries and

450
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: not redraw them and say, Okay, I would like to

451
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: still be in relationship with you, but this is what

452
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: it looks like. So maybe that looks like less access,

453
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: maybe that looks like just more spread out when we

454
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: get together. But I don't think that you want to

455
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: offer so much grace that you are then betraying yourself.

456
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: Thank you for saying that, Because a boundaried grace it's

457
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: what we're after. I love that passion extended to self

458
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: first then others is what we're after m Yeah, and

459
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: I think again back to our earlier conversation about just

460
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: how training and how much has happened in the past

461
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: couple of years. I think that that is also something

462
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: that impacts our relationships is that we are trying to

463
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 1: like offer with not from the overflow. Right. So the

464
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: idea is that you refill yourself so that you are

465
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: able to be in relationship with others from your overflow.

466
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,360
Speaker 1: But if you are all tapped out, that maybe why

467
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: you're a little cranky with your friends or where are

468
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: you feeling like, oh, I don't want to answer this call? Right,

469
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: So it does really have It goes back to really

470
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: making sure that we're taking care of ourselves and doing

471
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: the kinds of things that we need to do so

472
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: that we can actually be in healthy relationship to other people.

473
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 1: One of the things I was finding that I was

474
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: getting a certain kind of comment back in relation to

475
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: anytime I put up content around friendships, and there was

476
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: I'll give you a scenario and I would love to

477
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: know if you would walk us through what this process is.

478
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: So some people that are in friendship for many friendship

479
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: is your created family that is maybe your safe space

480
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: for the first time. But it also sometimes becomes the

481
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: space where you project everything that happened to you prior

482
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: to the friendship, and it becomes a space where you

483
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: kind of have toddler childlike Braddy behavior that maybe you

484
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: weren't allowed to have with your parents. And so I

485
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,239
Speaker 1: think you know something that people were saying to me

486
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: is I tried to talk to this friend about this,

487
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 1: But they don't even treat the X that dog them

488
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: out the way they go off on me, or they

489
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: treat the guy they only dated for a month with

490
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 1: more grace or more understanding. But there's all this expectation

491
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: on me. What is that dynamic when we are projecting

492
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: on other people some of that original wounding. What is that? Dabby?

493
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: I feel like you have like an early copy of

494
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: this book, and you clearly do not, because there is

495
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: no early copy of the book, yet I would like one,

496
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: and I absolutely are connected. So so what you're talking about,

497
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: and again why I think group therapy can be very powerful.

498
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: What you're basically talking about. There is a term in

499
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,719
Speaker 1: group therapy called the recapitulation of the family unit, And

500
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: so what often happens in a group of strangers were

501
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: talking about group therapy is that there will be members

502
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: of the group who will pull things from you that

503
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: remind you of your original family unit. So you find

504
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: yourself acting out towards a group member as though they

505
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: are your mother, and clearly it's not about them. It

506
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: is what they have arisen and awoken in you. And

507
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: in our sister circles, in our friendship circles, the same

508
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: kind of thing happens. Like it is still a group dynamic.

509
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: And so when you find yourself acting out or maybe

510
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: wanting to be braddy so to speak, or being super selfish,

511
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: it is very likely that what's happening is that some

512
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: of those childhood wounds or childhood areas that have not

513
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: been addressed are present and you actually don't even know it.

514
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: And that's something that often is playing out on the subconscious.

515
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: So we don't always know this is what's happening. And

516
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: so I think being able to have some of this

517
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: language like, hey, they aren't actually reacting to me, they

518
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: are reacting to the thing that my presence has now

519
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: awoken in them that they have not dealt with. And

520
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: so I think being able to again have honest conversations.

521
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: You know, and the more we know about our friends,

522
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: and the more we know about their history, it is

523
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: sometimes easier to kind of see that. But I don't

524
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: want us to try to play therapists with our friends, right,

525
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: It's not about us trying to do the work of

526
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: therapizing and psychoanalyzing our friends. But I do think it

527
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: can be helpful to be able to call attention to like, Hey,

528
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: I wonder what's going on here, Like, I'm noticing this

529
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: dynamic where it feels like you're able to extend grace

530
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: to other people and it doesn't feel like you're able

531
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: to do that with me. I wonder if you've noticed that, right,

532
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 1: And so really just kind of calling attention to these things,

533
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: because of course they happen like we are with these people,

534
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: like you said, they are our created family, and what

535
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: that means is that we then create some of those

536
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: same dynamics that we had in our family's origin. Whoa ah,

537
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: this book, Oh my gosh, this is gonna be so

538
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: powerful again. I'm gonna say this title and I hopefully

539
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: by the time this airs you can get that pre

540
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: order on Sisterhood Heels. It will be out this summer

541
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: twenty three. Doctor joy Hard and Bradford God, this book

542
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: is so needed right now, and I'm so excited for

543
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: everyone that picks it up, because understanding this changes your life.

544
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: Understanding this brings the ease that everyone is talking about.

545
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: Ease isn't just you know, like this is a moment

546
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: where so many of us are reclaiming ease, rest But

547
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: what that means is like really doing the work to

548
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: clean up your life, to pack in the empty places

549
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: more love, so that ease is really the natural state,

550
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: not the avoidance. And this book we need to clean

551
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: up our lives. We need to edit the intimate facets

552
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: of our lives, our friendships, our households, how we show

553
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: up in the world, and our work. Ah. So, Debby,

554
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: I want to I want to turn the tables a

555
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: little bit because I would love to have this conversation

556
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: with you. So one of the things in doing the

557
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: research for the book, one of the things that kept

558
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: coming up was how friendship dynamics changed after somebody got

559
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: engaged or married. And so I think the common thing

560
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: people think is like, oh, somebody was jealous, and so

561
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: you know, they got I got married first, and so

562
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: then they got jealous and then the friendship ended. And

563
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: I'm wondering in some of the posts that you have,

564
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: you know, put up around friendship, has this conversation come

565
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: up for you or do you have personal experience or

566
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: thoughts about like why that dynamic changes when there has

567
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: been like the presence of an engagement or a wedding. Oh,

568
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: this is spicy, doctor Jordan. It's so funny because just

569
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: this past weekend, I was hanging out with some friends

570
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,959
Speaker 1: and I was talking about my experience with some of

571
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: my bridesmaids when I got married, and it was so

572
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: interesting because there was one person who is no longer

573
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: in my life. It was shocking yet not but it

574
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: was fascinating to watch and confusing. Where I remember I

575
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: got engaged and all of a sudden I found out

576
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: way after the wedding all the ways they were trying

577
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: to sabotage the wedding, like not standing out invites to things,

578
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: like not inviting people to things that I asked because

579
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: they had a personal issue with them, which created a

580
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: rift for me and that person. And I've even heard

581
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: from people situations where someone decided to get pregnant just

582
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: because they wanted to have something going on to talk

583
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: about while their friend was in their new marriage and

584
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: it's fascinating. It's absolutely fascinating what comes up. And I

585
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: was getting a ton of those responses of the main

586
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: way that people were responding with this dynamic doctor joy

587
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: was around just feeling like they had lost something more

588
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: than anything like it was more of a feeling of

589
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: I've been abandoned or I won't have my needs met anymore.

590
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: To my ear, that also sounds like some of those

591
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: deeper woundings, those projections, those kind of throwing your needs

592
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: and worth on someone else. But that was the leading thing,

593
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: people just feeling sad, feeling like now they'd have less

594
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: m m. Yeah, I completely agree with that. That is

595
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: my assessment as well, is that oftentimes what happens in

596
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: those situations is that grief is triggered, right, And we

597
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: don't think about it as grief because one, we often

598
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: think about grief only as like the death of a

599
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: loved one, right, But there's all these other ways that

600
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: we experience grief. And I think changing changes in a

601
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: relationship that is super important to us, even though it's

602
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: a happy time maybe for our friend, I think we

603
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: have real trouble, like jet supposing that to like out,

604
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: I feel like now I'm going to lose them, right,

605
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I feel like we need to do

606
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: a better job of having conversations around like, I'm really

607
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: happy for you, but I'm also a little worried about

608
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: what this changes for us, and like sad about the

609
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: fact that our dynamic won't of course be able to

610
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: be the same as it was. You know. So I

611
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: think all of this acting out that we sometimes see

612
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: is really a grief response that people just don't recognize

613
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: and don't have the language for. Yeah, and then sometimes

614
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: for some people that thing kicks in where you say, well,

615
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: let me just think this ship because then at least

616
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: it's my choice. Yep, you know you're gonna get in

617
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: front of it, so that it was my decision. What

618
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: do you think of the story I told about the Bridesmaid? Yeah, yeah,

619
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: I mean I definitely think you know, there was clearly

620
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: something going on there, And I wonder if you saw signs,

621
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: like looking back, were there things that you recognize even

622
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: before you got engaged that indicated like, oh, something maybe

623
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: a little off or something feels unsettled about this person. Yes,

624
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: And that was a lot of my work and listen

625
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: to my intuition, like I have a very particular style

626
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: of integrity that I move in the world with, and

627
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: I really believe in spiritual hygiene, and I think that

628
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: good choice making, compassionate choice making, it's incredibly important in

629
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: my life. So I used to get those kind of

630
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: worlds blurred where I felt like I had to. When

631
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: I saw people that weren't in integrity, it was because

632
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: they just didn't know and I needed to show or

633
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: I needed to help. So I am a super super

634
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: reformed vixer and people pleaser. I'm the person that used

635
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: to want to do everyone's work for them and just no, no, no,

636
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: but look, read this book and did it and I

637
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: was taking it all on and gratefully that is no

638
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: longer in my life. But yeah, you know, when I

639
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: look back at that friendship, absolutely and we had been

640
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: childhood friends, and I saw those traits in that person.

641
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: I remember clearly having making mental notes way back at ten,

642
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: noticing how they were kind of treating people or making

643
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: things about them, and I just let it go on

644
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: for way too long, and then I saw the biggest

645
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: Because when things aren't super affecting you, when they're more

646
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: like kind of tiny irritations, it's just kind of like, yeah,

647
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: that's them being them. But when you keep that dynamic

648
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: in your life, when they have the opportunity to do

649
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: it at a higher stake, they will, And so you

650
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: need a curb it when you first notice it. It

651
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: is so important. Yeah, and who knows, you know what

652
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: kind of abandonment kinds of you know history there me

653
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 1: have been you know, I don't know of course this person,

654
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: well what got activated, but clearly something got activated with

655
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: your engagement, which then led to all of this behavior

656
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: kind of really stepping up a notch. Yeah, lasting piece,

657
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: lasting piece to all evolved. I have a very specific

658
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: question for you. This is I'm so curious, doctor Joy.

659
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 1: Therapy for black girls has been in such a leader

660
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: in the mental health space. One of the data points

661
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 1: around therapy for black women is that only five percent

662
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: of us therapists are black. Can you speak to the

663
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 1: importance of speaking with therapists that have deeper understanding of

664
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: your cultural needs, but specifically some of the personality traits, experiences,

665
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: and trauma that seem to happen within particular communities. Is

666
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: it important to find someone that looks like you or

667
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: understands your experience to unpack yourself with Yeah, So I

668
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 1: would say it is important if it feels important to you,

669
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: you know, because that won't necessarily be like a qualifier

670
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, right. But I do think

671
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: at least my experience has been there for a lot

672
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: of black women, that does feel very very important because

673
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 1: there are some things that you just assume that another

674
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: black woman will understand. Right. So when I think about

675
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: like going through the pandemic and then you know all

676
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: of the continued racial injustice, George Floyd being killed, Brianna

677
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: Taylor being killed, there are ways that I think black

678
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: women took in those stories and experience those things that

679
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: you just get right. And so if I came to

680
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: the session the week after finding out about Brianna Taylor,

681
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have to go into too much backstory

682
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: with my therapist because my therapist is also a black woman,

683
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: because there's some things that I know that she understands

684
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: because she's also a black woman in this country. So

685
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: I think for people who that is important, it is

686
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: absolutely okay to kind of chanse that, to look out

687
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: that look for that in your search. But as you mentioned,

688
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: there are not of that many of us, right, And

689
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: so what that means is that, you know, either people

690
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: end up on waiting lists or people will see therapists

691
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: who aren't necessarily black women. So that makes me that

692
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: you see a black man or somebody else. I'm another

693
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 1: person of color. But what that means for other therapists

694
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: who are not black is that there are some work

695
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: that they need to do so that they are creating

696
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: conditions that are safe for black women to come into

697
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: therapy to unpack these kinds of things. So there are

698
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: lots of microaggressions and ruptures that happen with non black

699
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: therapists because there's this questioning of reality, right, like did

700
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: that really happen in the way that you are saying it?

701
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: Or you know, now, tell me why you would be

702
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: so impacted by, you know, this thing that has nothing

703
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: to do with you, right, Other therapists really need to

704
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: make sure that they are doing their own work so

705
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: that they're not perpetrating those kinds of things that then

706
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: make it difficult for people to even continue to believe

707
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: in therapy. You know. So because a lot of our families,

708
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of history of parents and grandparents

709
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: and aunties and uncles going to therapy a lot of

710
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 1: times we are the first ones who may be having

711
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: that experience, and so if we don't have a good experience,

712
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: then that sometimes leaves us feeling like, oh, this isn't

713
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: actually helpful. This made me feel worse, So why would

714
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: I pay somebody to go and do this thing. So

715
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: I do think it is if it feels important to

716
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: you to find a therapist who matches you in some way,

717
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: it is absolutely okay to do that. But I do

718
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: think that there are also a lot of therapists who

719
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: may not match you, right, And so I typically encourage

720
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: people to just be open to surprises, right, but not

721
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: to betray yourself again by like continuing in weeks and

722
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: weeks of therapy with somebody who's like perpetuating racism against you.

723
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. There are some therapists who have done their work.

724
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: They have done, you know, incredible work working with other

725
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 1: black women, and so they actually may be a good

726
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: match for you, but you might not know that if

727
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: you are not open to seeing if somebody else might

728
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 1: be a good match for you. As people are looking

729
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: for therapists, especially now because very gratefully, for the first

730
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: time ever, there's this mass movement to love yourself to

731
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: heal yourself, to get the tools that you don't naturally have,

732
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: and it is gorgeous, exciting and also for those that

733
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: are coming to healing work for the first time, something

734
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 1: I speak to a lot on this show. On this show,

735
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 1: Doctor Joy is taking your time to research and date

736
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: a little bit in this space, for lack of a

737
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: better word, because as with any other field, as with

738
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: any other anything, even with therapists, you have your extraordinary,

739
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: you have your good, you have your solid, you have

740
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: your mediocre, and there are therapists that are not good

741
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: at what they do. It is this exists in every

742
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: field and every walk of life, high and low. So

743
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 1: you can't just think because someone has that title that

744
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: that will be your perfect fit easily or that will

745
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: be enough. So any insight that you can share with

746
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: everyone about really how to gain deeper insight on if

747
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: a therapist is a good therapist quote unquote yeah, and

748
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: I want to take that because it can be a

749
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: good therapist, but not a good therapist for you, right,

750
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: you know, because again, therapy is such a human relationship.

751
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 1: So much of what actually is doing the work and

752
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 1: healing is the relationship that you have with your therapist,

753
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: and so somebody might be great, but they might just

754
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 1: not be a great fit for you. And it doesn't

755
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: mean that they're a bad therapist or that you're a

756
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: bad client. It just says something about the dynamic that

757
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: maybe it's just not what you need maybe in that moment.

758
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: So I also use a lot of that kind of

759
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: dating language, although of course their boundaries in your therapeutic relationship.

760
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: But it is a sist and that's not approgram We

761
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: don't want to go to the therapist, but it is

762
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: a series of kind of like getting to know these people.

763
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: So the great thing is that a lot of therapists

764
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: have a lot of information about themselves out available to

765
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: the public now. So many of us have websites where

766
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: you can learn more about our practice. A lot of

767
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: therapists create content, or you might find YouTube videos or

768
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: Instagram videos or talks or Twitter posts that will give

769
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: you a little bit of an insight around how they speak,

770
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: because sometimes therapists have a particular way of relating that

771
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: you absolutely know like, oh, this probably wouldn't work for me,

772
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: and you can probably get a sense of that from

773
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: a TikTok or from a YouTube video. So doing your

774
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: research is really important. And then the other thing is

775
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: that a lot of therapists will give you like a

776
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: free tenth to fifteen minute consultation to ask any additional

777
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: questions you have after you've done your research. But as therapists,

778
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 1: we're also listening for whether we feel like we would

779
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,439
Speaker 1: be a good therapist for you, right, you know. So

780
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: the other thing that you want to pay attention to

781
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: is whether they actually have training in expertise in the

782
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 1: thing that you're coming for. So you might find somebody's

783
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: YouTube videos and think, oh, they are great, I would

784
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: love to work with them, But then they actually are

785
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: not trained in the thing or have additional expertise in

786
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: the thing that you need, and then that probably is

787
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: not going to be a helpful relationship because they may

788
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: not know enough to really help you through whatever your

789
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: concern is. So hopefully the therapist would tell you that

790
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: right like, oh, you know, I love to work with you,

791
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: but I actually don't think that this is my area

792
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: of expertise. But let me give you some referral. So

793
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: that's the other thing about these consultations is that if

794
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 1: we hear you talking about something that we feel like, okay,

795
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: this is not my bag. Then I also have a

796
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: referral network of other colleagues who I think could maybe

797
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: do some great work for you, So then I can

798
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 1: maybe refer you to somebody else who could be a

799
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: better fit. And I typically tell people, you know, sometimes

800
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: pretty early on, like Okay, I really feel like I'm

801
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: going to be able to do some good work with

802
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: this person. But sometimes it takes a little longer, right,

803
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,760
Speaker 1: because you're trying to feel it out, and like, Okay,

804
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: who is this stranger? And I'm telling them all of

805
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: my business and they're not saying anything about themselves. But

806
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: I don't want people to get like four months into

807
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: therapy still questioning, right. I think early on, even if

808
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 1: you're not ready to maybe share some difficult things or

809
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: you're not quite ready to kind of take yourself there,

810
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: you can get a sense of whether this person is

811
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,839
Speaker 1: going to help you to create an environment that will

812
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: allow you to get there. So there's nothing wrong with

813
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: like warming up and like, Okay, let me feel this

814
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: out before I really dive in. But I think there

815
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: should be some indications pretty early on that you feel

816
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: safe in the space, you feel comfortable, you don't feel

817
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,399
Speaker 1: judged by this person, You don't feel like the need

818
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: to withhold. It is often a place that you look

819
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: forward to. Now, Now, therapy isn't always easy, and I

820
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: want you to hear that, like, there will be some

821
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: weeks that you absolutely like, oh, I don't want to

822
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: do this, but but it should feel more of a like, Okay,

823
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 1: I'm afraid to do the work, not I feel uncomfortable

824
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 1: in this space. Yeah ohoo, you gave us so many tools. Yes,

825
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: And because the thing that you don't want to do

826
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: is have now therapy be another container for the behavior

827
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: that you have done at other points in your life.

828
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: So don't go in there and perform. You don't need

829
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: to win them over. You don't need to get them

830
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: to like you. You don't. Ah, this is the space

831
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: to try out your new self. Okay. My last question,

832
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: and this is this is actually more of a personal question. Okay,

833
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:10,919
Speaker 1: So for choosing a therapist, if you are someone who

834
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: is highly self aware, that has done years and years

835
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 1: of work and all different kinds of therapy, what is

836
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: the best way to court a new therapist where you

837
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: can say I don't need to like start from scratch

838
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: or is there a way to kind of show up

839
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: if you're someone that has done therapy in the past,

840
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: when looking for a new therapist to create some baseline

841
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 1: of these are the themes I've worked through. This is

842
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: where I am now, this is what I'd like to

843
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: work towards. For those that have kind of been in

844
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: the therapy world, myself included for a while, and you're

845
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: looking for something more, but you don't want to have

846
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: to start from the getting to know you phase? What

847
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: do you do? So unfortunately, having I don't know that

848
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: there's a way to get around the getting to know

849
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: you kind of going to do through it. You're trying

850
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: to skip them steps there. So every new therapist is

851
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: gonna want to have their own relationship with you, right,

852
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: And I hear this a lot, you know, not necessarily

853
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: just in the like, I've done a lot of therapy,

854
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: and so I'm looking for something different. But people who

855
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: maybe have worked with the therapist for a while and

856
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: feel like, Okay, I don't I don't think I'm getting

857
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: what I need anymore. I need something different. They just

858
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: don't want to have to explain all of that backstory anymore.

859
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: And I totally get that, and you don't necessarily need

860
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 1: to do that. So One way around that, if you

861
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,879
Speaker 1: are interested, is that you can sign a release with

862
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: your old therapist that allows them to give the new

863
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: therapist records and you know they can kind of look

864
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: through and whatever. But the other thing to keep in

865
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 1: mind is that you're not necessarily starting with a new

866
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: therapist in the same place that you did with the

867
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: previous therapist. Right, So if you now are wanting to

868
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: work on more things, you know, related to like advancing

869
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 1: in your career, and you know, whatever comes up there,

870
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: you won't necessarily have to talk about the same like

871
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: issues related to your childhood with this new therapist, because

872
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: that is not as pressing. So any therapist that you

873
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: are talking to is going to do what we call

874
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: an intake, where they're getting to know a little bit

875
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,760
Speaker 1: more about you and what's bringing you in. And of course,

876
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: if you have had therapy before, you're gonna they're probably

877
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: gonna ask you like, okay, tell me a little bit

878
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 1: about your previous experiences, what did you like, maybe what

879
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: didn't work, But they're not going to necessarily take you

880
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 1: digging back through all of those things that you had

881
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: to do before, because that's not what brings you in now.

882
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: And maybe some of that will come up, you know,

883
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 1: as needed, but it's not where you're gonna start. So

884
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: it's not like you're gonna duplicate what you've done with

885
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: therapy in the past. So, but for people who are

886
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: pretty therapy savvy and like who have done a lot

887
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: of different kinds of work, I think it could be

888
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 1: helpful to find therapists who practice in different kinds of ways.

889
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 1: So as therapists, you know, we all kind of go

890
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: through general training, but a lot of us do additional

891
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: training and course work on top of our graduate degree

892
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: to specialize in things. So you know, you will hear

893
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: a lot of therapists talk about cbt kignitive behavioral therapy EMDR,

894
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: which is a therapy kind of specifically helpful for traumatic experiences,

895
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: but a lot there are also some therapists who practice

896
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: like psychoanalysis, more insight kind of work, and I tend

897
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: to think that that kind of works, Like the more

898
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: insight driven work is maybe a good place to kind

899
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,240
Speaker 1: of look for people who have done a lot of therapy.

900
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 1: So maybe you're not necessarily looking for symptom reduction. You're

901
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 1: looking more like, Okay, help me understand these patterns, and

902
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: you know, I don't quite feel like I'm relating to

903
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: people in the way I want. Insight driven work may

904
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: be a better option there and group therapy, so that

905
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: is also something that a lot of people have not

906
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 1: tried that I think can be incredible because there are

907
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: insights and breakthroughs that you can make in group therapy

908
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 1: that it would take months to get to with your

909
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: individual therapists, just because there are more people, right like,

910
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: there are more people for you to interact with and

911
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: more people kind of you know, awaken things in you.

912
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: So group therapy I think if you can find it

913
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: is also another option for people who maybe have done

914
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,760
Speaker 1: a lot of therapy. This could be a different experience

915
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: for you to kind of gain some greater insight. M.

916
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: I love that. And it's also so powerful to watch

917
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: someone being facilitated as they're as they're working through something.

918
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: You know, it gives you kind of procedure for yourself

919
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: for changes how you relate in your in your relationships. Wow,

920
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: M doctor Joy, thank you. I am just I love

921
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: being in conversation with you. I had the pleasure of

922
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: being on your show Therapy for Black Girl podcast and

923
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: I did a meditation there. So anyone that is really

924
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: loving this episode. Please check out that episode two and

925
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: all the others that Doctor Joy does. Your new book,

926
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:46,800
Speaker 1: Sisterhood Heels is set to release this coming summer twenty

927
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 1: twenty three. We need this, We need this week. Thank you,

928
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, always a pleasure. Thank you so much.

929
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: Thank you once again doctor Joey Hard and Bradford for

930
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: joining us on this really really expansive episode. And just

931
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: take a second, you know, let's do a little soul work.

932
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: Take a second after this episode clicks off, before you

933
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 1: kind of jump into the rest of whatever you're doing.

934
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: And I want you to jest for your soul work

935
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: this week. I want you to start to notice, how

936
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 1: do you define the word friendship, How do you define

937
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:44,280
Speaker 1: the word sisterhood or brotherhood? How do you uniquely define

938
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: an experience the word community? And just allow that to

939
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: kind of go back and forth in your mind for

940
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 1: the rest of today, for tomorrow. You have a notebook nearby,

941
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: maybe drop those down as words friendship, brotherhood, sisterhood, community,

942
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 1: And as you think of those words, I want you

943
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: to really challenge yourself to not just give it maybe

944
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 1: the top of mind definition a well, sisterhood, it's a

945
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: grouping of women or community, you know, various people coming together.

946
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 1: Really think of what those words have looked like or

947
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: not in your life over the course of your entire life. So,

948
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 1: how did you experience friendship as a child, How did

949
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: you experience friendship as a teen, a young adult, someone

950
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,879
Speaker 1: in your twenties and your thirties and your forties. How

951
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: did that word evolve? How did that experience evolve? How

952
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: was it felt by you? Get a little surgical with

953
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: the way that you're investigating these words. Do the same

954
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 1: thing with sisterhood. What are thoughts or noticings about sisterhood

955
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 1: at various stages of your life, from childhood through now?

956
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: And then after you spend a few days letting that

957
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: kind of roll through your mind, let's take it to

958
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,919
Speaker 1: another step, and I want you to think of what

959
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 1: all of those words terms mean to you now and

960
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: how you'd like to feel them or relate to them. So,

961
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: for instance, that word sisterhood, if that actually brings up

962
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 1: some charge, some disappointment, some pain from earlier stages in

963
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: your life, what is a way you'd like to know

964
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:50,240
Speaker 1: that word now? What could that look like now? Opening

965
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 1: yourself to wider friendship and do that with each of

966
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: those words, what would you like to be your relationship

967
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 1: with friendship, sisterhood, brotherhood, community. There is no right or wrong,

968
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: It is just your experience and your intention. Investigation is

969
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 1: how we get free. Thank you for listening. If you

970
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: have extra time today, take a second go to the

971
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:25,760
Speaker 1: Apple app for podcasts and add a five star rating,

972
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 1: and if you have the time, write a little review.

973
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,760
Speaker 1: I appreciated and big love to everyone that has shared

974
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: they're already namas day. Hey find me on social Let's

975
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: connect at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or go

976
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're

977
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, please please please

978
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 1: don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe and send this

979
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 1: episode to a friend. Dropping Gems is the production of

980
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network. It's produced by Jackies

981
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 1: and me Debbie Brown. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

982
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

983
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 1: your favorite shows. I'm so grateful to Debbie for inviting

984
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: me to be a guest on the Dropping Gems podcast.

985
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 1: Make sure to check out the other beautiful conversation she

986
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 1: has every week on Dropping Gems and you can find

987
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:35,919
Speaker 1: the podcast on Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Spotify, and anywhere else

988
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: you tune into your podcasts. And don't forget to pre

989
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: order your copy of Sisterhood Heels at sisterhood Heels dot

990
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 1: com and be sure to text two of your girls

991
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: and tell them to grab their pre order as well.

992
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,839
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check

993
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: out our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com

994
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 1: slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into

995
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: this topic or just be in community with other sisters,

996
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: come on over and join us in the Sister Circle.

997
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 1: It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for

998
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,720
Speaker 1: black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy

999
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot com. Thank y'all so much for joining

1000
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: me again this week. I look forward to continuing this

1001
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 1: conversation with you all real soon. Take good care,