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Speaker 1: What's Johnny my Wayne O? What's destroyed? Yeah? Shattering my pelvis,

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Speaker 1: my thirteen pound baby? What's irradiating? My racist movie about

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Speaker 1: Genghis Khan starring a white man is Genghis Kan? That

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Speaker 1: is the funniest thing in terms of like ways John

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Speaker 1: Wayne could have died nuked while playing Genghis Khan in

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Speaker 1: a movie is pretty funny. That. That's pretty good? How

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Speaker 1: are you doing? Francesca Fiarentini, our guest returning for part

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Speaker 1: three of three. I have to find out how this ends,

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Speaker 1: you know? Well? I mean it's I feel like he

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Speaker 1: becomes even more bad, aastardly towards the end of his life.

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Speaker 1: But I'm excited. Yes, actually he becomes Chris Catan. Um, real,

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Speaker 1: real curveball for the story. That makes as much sense

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Speaker 1: as anything else. Um, Chris Catan, great career not over?

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Speaker 1: Is it not? Are we still doing christ? I don't

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Speaker 1: have anything against Chris Catan in particular, but are we?

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Speaker 1: I mean there could be a Night at the Roxbury reboots,

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Speaker 1: So there could be or we could even do like

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Speaker 1: a like a like an Avengers in game where a

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Speaker 1: Night at the Roxbury meets the Blues Brothers and uh,

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Speaker 1: it's another one of those Lord Michael's movies. Uh the Superstar,

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Speaker 1: I don't know Superstar. Throw that in there, you know,

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Speaker 1: throwing the David Cross one where he plays plays a hillbilly. Um,

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Speaker 1: make it all happen, but everyone's jacked. It's it's basically

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Speaker 1: everybody exactly get everybody like on it, pumped with H

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Speaker 1: G H destroy their hearts. Get him just like David

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Speaker 1: Cross has like sixteen inch biceps. Yeah, and then nume

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Speaker 1: on set and then we knew them, and then we

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Speaker 1: knew them on set. That's right. Finally, that's how we

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Speaker 1: that's how we end Lauren Michaels' career with that film.

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Speaker 1: Uh shouldn't have brought that Night at the Roxbury so um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's like the center of this idea of like white

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Speaker 1: conservative masculinity um and and has has been for decades

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Speaker 1: at this point. By the time we hit like the

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Speaker 1: mid Night to late nineteen sixties. Uh, all of these

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Speaker 1: people who are like eighteen nineteen twenty uh and old

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Speaker 1: enough to start going over to Vietnam have never known

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Speaker 1: a world in which John Wayne wasn't like the biggest

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Speaker 1: action star in there. Like he's you know, there's not

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Speaker 1: really anyone to compare him to. Now, I guess your

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Speaker 1: closest would be someone like The Rock. Um. But even then,

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Speaker 1: like we we don't really have. The media is so

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Speaker 1: much bigger now, so like you have like a million

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Speaker 1: different kinds of action stars for everyone in this period

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Speaker 1: of time, John Wayne is like uh it yeah, um. So,

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Speaker 1: though not publicly a man of particular religious vigor, he

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Speaker 1: embodied what muscular Christianity enthusiasts respected, while also speaking to

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Speaker 1: the more secular, arch capitalist right wingers who sought a

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Speaker 1: more muscular US willing to throw down for the free market.

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Speaker 1: All of this sworld together to make him an irresistible

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Speaker 1: frontman for Republican politicians. Christine Cobbs Dumez writes in Night,

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Speaker 1: he gave a rousing patriotic address at the Republican National Convention.

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Speaker 1: When Nixon wanted to explain his own views on law

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Speaker 1: and order, he pointed to Wayne's Chisholm, which is one

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Speaker 1: of his movies, as a model, a bloody tale of

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Speaker 1: frontier justice in which Wayne achieved order and revenge through

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Speaker 1: violence some sixty eight like at the RNC, Nixon is

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Speaker 1: specifically pointing to John Wayne movies is like this is

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Speaker 1: this is how law and order is supposed to be.

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Speaker 1: This this cowboy movie by a draft dodger. You know,

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Speaker 1: who could take care of these dirty hippies who want

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Speaker 1: to stop seeing their friends slaughtered? The Duke John Wayne,

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Speaker 1: these we can't it be more like that? Remember when

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Speaker 1: the good guys were good guys and the bad guys

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Speaker 1: were the brown people. Let's do that. Let's do that again.

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Speaker 1: It is also very funny he spent so much time

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Speaker 1: shifting on anti war protesters, a lot of whom are

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Speaker 1: veterans who didn't dodge the draft like he did. But whatever, so,

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Speaker 1: Wayne himself was flabbergasted at the resistance among many Americans

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Speaker 1: towards continuing to escalate the war in Vietnam. I'man's biography

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Speaker 1: tells a particularly lurid story about Wayne seeing a one

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Speaker 1: armed veteran walking across the campus during a protest, and

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Speaker 1: this group of protesters like approaches this veteran. They're heckling

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Speaker 1: this brave man who lost his arm in combat, and

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Speaker 1: John Wayne has to like walk up and say, now,

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Speaker 1: don't you like you can speak your piece, but you're

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Speaker 1: not gonna yell at this man, and you don't get

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Speaker 1: to say this to a hero and YadA YadA YadA

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Speaker 1: together becau actly and then everyone clapped. Yeah. Um, there's

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Speaker 1: no evidence this ever happened. Uh, it's there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of fake stories about stuff like soldiers getting spit on

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Speaker 1: from this period and John Wayne being a liar. I

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Speaker 1: don't have any trouble believing made this up. Um, he

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Speaker 1: needed one for himself. The spit the spit soldier story

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Speaker 1: was getting way too much play. Let me invent one.

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Speaker 1: He needed a John Wayne version one. Now I don't

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Speaker 1: think that particular story is true, Francesco, but we do

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Speaker 1: have audio of John Wayne addressing a group of students.

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Speaker 1: I think they're like r OTC kids, cadets at like

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Speaker 1: a military academy or something. What matters most is that

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Speaker 1: he's obviously fucking hammered. It's so funny. He is, he

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Speaker 1: is housed. He is just completely fucking still after all

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Speaker 1: these years. It's so funny. Um, here's how he says,

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Speaker 1: hello to these kids. My name is what? All right?

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Speaker 1: First of all, it's Marryan is married. Suddenly you will

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Speaker 1: John is short for William. What am I saying? It's

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Speaker 1: so funny? This is unimportant? Oh my God, it does

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Speaker 1: not get wildly more coherent from there, but the audience

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Speaker 1: is very much on board. And honestly, if I had

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Speaker 1: been a college student and a drunk movie star had

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Speaker 1: come to give my commits like that would have been

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Speaker 1: super funny. I would have been all I think most

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Speaker 1: kids would write. Um, the audience, I mean this is

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Speaker 1: also a more right wing, militant audience. So they're they're

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Speaker 1: on board here. Um. Now I'm gonna play another clip

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Speaker 1: and for context. Here he's talking about how different things

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Speaker 1: were when He's talking about like protests in college and

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Speaker 1: how different things were when he were in he was

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Speaker 1: in college. Remember, this is a period where students are

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Speaker 1: taking over faculty buildings and whatnot. They're trashing the offices

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Speaker 1: of certain professors. Like there's all these protests against the

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Speaker 1: war by students. We talked about some of this in

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Speaker 1: the Kissinger episodes. So John Wayne is talking about how

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Speaker 1: different things were when he was in college. Let me

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Speaker 1: explain something to you. And I went there. I went there.

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Speaker 1: One that was a fella in troll Over College, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean, boss many buddy had walked in there, A

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Speaker 1: good one got the office and did excrement and his

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Speaker 1: power through buddy, you got it. The waste paper basket,

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Speaker 1: that's what it is. Had written lewd words on his uh,

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Speaker 1: the pictures of his family. We as members of the college,

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Speaker 1: would have kicked the god damn hell out of this argiza.

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Speaker 1: It's very funny. He's so drunk, does he nod off?

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Speaker 1: Because that's where it feels like I feel like he

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Speaker 1: might have, like he was sort of he was sort

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Speaker 1: of graying out there for a little while. What's the

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Speaker 1: having a little brown out, drifting off into the land

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Speaker 1: of vodka and fantasies. Classroom, right, the class class I

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Speaker 1: never stopped classroom. Just a drunk old man heckling teens.

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Speaker 1: So from this point he continues to his main argument,

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Speaker 1: which is that he thinks these kids he's talking to

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Speaker 1: should beat the hell out of left wing protesters who

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Speaker 1: dissent from the view that war is good in the

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Speaker 1: US can do no wrong. Well, a lot of the

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Speaker 1: speech is very funny. It's mostly very funny. The last

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Speaker 1: bit does kind of get a little terrifying because in

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Speaker 1: it John Wayne calls for the establishment of the sort

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Speaker 1: of violent right wing street organizations that we are currently

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Speaker 1: swimming in as a nation. For you guys, you better

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Speaker 1: start thinking. It's it's getting to be re god damndiculous.

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Speaker 1: If you guys don't start thinking is men, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have a lousy country. Jesus, I'm I have had the

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Speaker 1: chance to be you as guys who are with things

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Speaker 1: and against things. Christ try as because I try as

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Speaker 1: a human being to listen to both sides of everything.

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Speaker 1: But there's no both sides anymore. They're just trying to

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Speaker 1: wreck our goddamn country. It's time for you younger guys

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Speaker 1: to take over. I don't know what they do. Awesome.

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Speaker 1: That was brilliant, and you know what, it very much

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Speaker 1: is a speech that fits into the year. It does

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Speaker 1: it does. That's that's a Giuliani speech right there. That's

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Speaker 1: a right down to the drunkenness, right down to the

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Speaker 1: fairly being able to stand yes exactly. He was so

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Speaker 1: ahead of his time. But it's so he's also it's

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Speaker 1: funny because he is also while the hero of every

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Speaker 1: single film just kind of like interpersonally and incredibly like

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Speaker 1: he's lazy and drunk half the time, like like and

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Speaker 1: his only work ethic, Like the hardest thing he did

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Speaker 1: was I think, well, I don't know, did he learn

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Speaker 1: to lasso or that was the hardest thing, just like

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Speaker 1: bringing seven from Mexico. I mean, like he's most people

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Speaker 1: will note, and I think this alters a little bit

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Speaker 1: at the end of his career. But he's like he's

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Speaker 1: generally most people will agree, pretty good on set. He's

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Speaker 1: good at like what he does. He's got this kind

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Speaker 1: of background in props, so he's he's he knows how

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Speaker 1: things should look. He's an active member of like the

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Speaker 1: of the crew beyond just sort of like standing and

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Speaker 1: hitting his lines. That's generally agreed upon. But you do hear,

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Speaker 1: you hear really different stories. So you hear all these

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Speaker 1: stories about you know, John Wayne seeing something a directors

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Speaker 1: doing and realizing that one look good on camera and

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Speaker 1: like fixing the scene and being like very much a

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Speaker 1: team player. And then you hear these stories about like, well,

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Speaker 1: they couldn't shoot the film before noon because that's when

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Speaker 1: he woke up and they had to wait for him

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Speaker 1: to take a giant ship first, so they couldn't start

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Speaker 1: until he tend like that. I respect that, I definitely respect.

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Speaker 1: So I I don't know, like you do hear like

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Speaker 1: a lot of rumors on both sides. It's probably fair

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Speaker 1: to say he would not have gotten as far as

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Speaker 1: he did if he was not really good at certain

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Speaker 1: aspects of being a movie star. So I'll give him

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Speaker 1: credit for that. Um. But it's also like, John Wayne,

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Speaker 1: you were never willing to go do anything for your

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Speaker 1: country overseas. Where are you now saying that groups of

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Speaker 1: teenagers should beat the ship out of people protesting a

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Speaker 1: war that you can't even like you have. No, He's

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Speaker 1: there's no elucidation there in that speech and the other

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Speaker 1: ones he gives about like why they should be willing

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Speaker 1: to do violence on behalf of this war, right, because

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Speaker 1: that's not what's important. What's important is something vague about America.

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Speaker 1: And that's the thing that seems most familiar where it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: you're not really elucidating anything that they should be fighting

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Speaker 1: for other than the vague idea of America, and that's

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Speaker 1: that's really enough to rile people up for violence. I

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Speaker 1: mean again, it's just super fitting. It's like, America isn't

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Speaker 1: a country that protests the bludgeoning and killing of civilians

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Speaker 1: and the death of like young men uh coming home

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Speaker 1: in bodybags their parents. America is the country that does

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Speaker 1: those things not a sound without why would you why

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Speaker 1: would you make a sound that's just gonna be loud.

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Speaker 1: You know you're gonna wake up John Wayne, and he's

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Speaker 1: going to be hungover absolutely before noon. Yeah, without the

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Speaker 1: yeah kids these days, it's very much just the kids

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Speaker 1: these days speech. And then at the end it's fun

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Speaker 1: because instead of him being like and that's why I'm

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Speaker 1: going to start up blah blah blah or whatever, or

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Speaker 1: I'm going to start a militia, which glad he didn't,

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Speaker 1: but instead of that, it's just like anyway you figure

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to do drunk asked John Wayne.

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Speaker 1: Very funny, except great. You know the fact that he

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Speaker 1: holds this position in our cultural memory that makes the

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Speaker 1: fact that he was a drunken warmonger much more influential.

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Speaker 1: But let's continue, So we should talk again about these

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Speaker 1: kind of rumors about the Duke that you'll hear because

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Speaker 1: you get this like I'm in very much presents this

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Speaker 1: picture of him as this incredibly diligent um with quotes

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Speaker 1: from people who worked with him, including guys like Ford,

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Speaker 1: that he was this he had really, he was really sharp.

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Speaker 1: He was always willing to put in the extra effort,

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Speaker 1: he'd do multiple jobs, even though he was supposed to

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Speaker 1: be the star, just to make sure the film got made.

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Speaker 1: And then you'll hear these stories about like his scenes

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Speaker 1: needed to be finished shooting before noon every day because

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Speaker 1: he was gonna be too drunk after that. Um, but

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Speaker 1: he couldn't film in the morning until he'd taken his

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Speaker 1: first hungover ship and like, so he's got like half

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Speaker 1: an hour, he's got like a good hour in there.

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Speaker 1: That's why I those can't be true comprehensively, like they

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Speaker 1: may have been true on certain films or in certain times. Right.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there were times and people like, well, you

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Speaker 1: can't shoot, you can't you got if you shoot too

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Speaker 1: late in the day, he's gonna be drunk, because we

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Speaker 1: know he got drunk at and impacted shooting at times.

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Speaker 1: But he made way too many movies for them to

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Speaker 1: have been for things to have been that ridiculous. You

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Speaker 1: can't shoot a movie with an hour a day from

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Speaker 1: the star, right, But who knows how the radiation impacted

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Speaker 1: his gas row? Intestinal can be and I'm sure the

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Speaker 1: older he got to the more it was, like you

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Speaker 1: his lifestyle took a toll on him, and that took

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Speaker 1: altered the way he was on set. But um, like drinking,

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Speaker 1: I mean obviously that's like the sign of an alcoholic,

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Speaker 1: but like being like a young kid like on set

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Speaker 1: and like drinking and then waking up the next day

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Speaker 1: in hell. Yeah, Like obviously we all remember what it

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Speaker 1: was like to be nineteen, blessed that moment, but like

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Speaker 1: great hangovers in your fifties, hangovers in your fifties as

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Speaker 1: a guy who has been just basically inhaling cigarettes and

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Speaker 1: nothing else since he was like twelve, Like, um, that's

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Speaker 1: I mean, I do want to note, like I'm sure

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Speaker 1: aspects of this were true, and I'm also sure aspects

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Speaker 1: of what I'm in reports in terms of his like

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Speaker 1: diligence on set were really true. Um, it's worth noting

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Speaker 1: that two of his very best performances in his career

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Speaker 1: were filmed really late in it when he's an old guy,

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Speaker 1: the shootest and true grit, true grit being maybe the

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Speaker 1: most the one that's most famous today probably that he

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Speaker 1: was in you know Rooster Cockburn, great film, really good performance.

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Speaker 1: He was not a bad actor. Um, there were some

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Speaker 1: moments I forget which film it was, but like because

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Speaker 1: most of his early roles he had not had to act.

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Speaker 1: He's in a movie that John Ford sees and Ford

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Speaker 1: is like a hell. If I had known he could act,

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Speaker 1: I would have Tooked done some stuff differently. Um, but

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Speaker 1: he isn't some better performance as The Shootest, which is

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Speaker 1: his very last film, is a really good movie in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways. That's that's interesting too, because it's

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about The shoot is a little at the end,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of it's kind of a strange one for him. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think honestly, it's very like it's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of his character, like true grit, A drunken

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Speaker 1: hard nos Us Marshall and Texas ranger helps a stubborn

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Speaker 1: teenager track down her father's murderer. There you go, like

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Speaker 1: hard nosed and hard nosed, never served his country. So

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Speaker 1: that's allow one. You gotta take it a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting, um, because it's one of those things.

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Speaker 1: I don't think he's as these anti John Wayne anecdotes

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Speaker 1: about how drunk he was. I don't think he was

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Speaker 1: as unfunctional as those anecdotes imply. But we might have

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Speaker 1: been better off if he had been because another movie

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Speaker 1: John Wayne cared a lot about making and put a

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Speaker 1: lot of work into later in his career was The

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Speaker 1: Green Berets. And this is a film that would go

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Speaker 1: on to have pretty disastrous consequences for a number of

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Speaker 1: members of a generation. So you're not necessarily a bassard

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Speaker 1: as an action movie star if your films like reinforce

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Speaker 1: attitudes about violence and masculinity that lead young men to

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Speaker 1: make some like dumb decisions such as joining the army. Um.

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Speaker 1: But John Wayne knew that his films could do that

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Speaker 1: and actively sought to use them to convince people to

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Speaker 1: go and fight in Vietnam. Right. He understood that he

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Speaker 1: had influenced a generation's idea of manhood, and he decided

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Speaker 1: to use that influence to try to get more young

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Speaker 1: men to volunteer to go fight in Southeast Asia. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: before we get into that a little more, I want

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Speaker 1: to read a quote from this right up I found

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Speaker 1: in Salon dot com that gives a good overview on

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Speaker 1: the broad strokes of kind of what it meant in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight to be what some people called a

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Speaker 1: John Wayne man. John Wayne, Yeah, John Wayne stands simply

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Speaker 1: is the most persuasive and overwhelming embodiment of our ambivalence

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Speaker 1: about American manhood. His persona gathers in one place, the

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Speaker 1: allure of violence, the call away from the frontier, the

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Speaker 1: tortured ambivalence toward women and the home, the dark pleasure

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Speaker 1: of said romanticism, all those things that reside unspoken at

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Speaker 1: the center of our sense of what it means to

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Speaker 1: be a man in America, dark ambivalent towards the home.

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Speaker 1: Just just say, do women like, Yeah, the man who

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Speaker 1: strikes his wife, Well, it's this thing that you have

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Speaker 1: because you know early in his career. They're like, we

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Speaker 1: want him to look like a guy who doesn't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of experience with women because he spends all

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Speaker 1: of his time in the frontier, so he kind of

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Speaker 1: is uncomfortable around women. And that's kind of part of

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Speaker 1: I think why that expands to even more of a

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Speaker 1: thing in a Hollywood is you have this mix of

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Speaker 1: the male lead. Number one has to be very clearly

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Speaker 1: not gay. So you've got to show a woman as

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Speaker 1: being interested in him, right, Um, which not necessarily a

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Speaker 1: sign that they're not gay for sure. Um, but you

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Speaker 1: know we're talking nineteen sixties Hollywood logic. You gotta you

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Speaker 1: gotta show him with a woman, but also like sex

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Speaker 1: and stuff, that's that's going to get you in trouble.

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Speaker 1: So you don't you don't ever want him to get

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Speaker 1: too close to him necessarily, and so you you wind

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Speaker 1: up with a lot of these heroes who are like

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Speaker 1: magnetic to women but also kind of pushing them away. Um,

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Speaker 1: these these sort of like yeah, it's all and also

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Speaker 1: just like these ideas about masculinity. You don't want to

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Speaker 1: have a guy who's like vulnerable with a woman. It's

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Speaker 1: the kind of James Bond thing right where he's gonna

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Speaker 1: you know, he'll sleep with a woman, but he doesn't

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Speaker 1: have relationships or whatever. I think that's up in the

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Speaker 1: shower unannounced and they'll just start having sex and you're like,

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Speaker 1: I guess that was consent, But like John Wyn won't

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Speaker 1: even do that, right because because Jim Bond is more

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Speaker 1: advanced in his attitudes towards female liberation than John Wayne,

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Speaker 1: characters tend to be you know, um, she can carry

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Speaker 1: a gun that yeah yeah, um, yeah, yeah, I know that.

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Speaker 1: That is really um, it's it explains so much. And

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Speaker 1: also to recruit use your film to recruit young American

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Speaker 1: men into a war which is already going to give

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Speaker 1: him PTSD and then come home and like the the

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Speaker 1: manly thing to do. Don't talk about it, don't address it,

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Speaker 1: bottle it up. Stoicism. Like, I think there's a stoicism

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Speaker 1: that John Wayne really instilled in about American masculinity. Yes, um,

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Speaker 1: And and it's like it's also kind of, I think,

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Speaker 1: an impotent stoicism. It's not the kind of there's a

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Speaker 1: good stoicism where you're not, you know, letting yourself getting

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Speaker 1: beaten down by the world. You're not like showing you know,

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Speaker 1: your weakness and situations where that's bad. But John Wayne

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Speaker 1: stoicism is like, don't show vulnerability and situations where that

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Speaker 1: might make you st younger. Uh. But anyway, that's we're

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Speaker 1: getting into a little bit of a deeper topic. But so,

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Speaker 1: you know, Vietnam nineteen has become like a thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's clear that it's a real problem, and Americans really

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Speaker 1: don't seem to be liking this, this thing that we're doing.

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Speaker 1: And so John Wayne decides, I gotta do whatever I

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Speaker 1: can to confence more young boys to throw themselves into

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Speaker 1: this meat grinder. And he decides the best way to

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Speaker 1: do this is by making a movie about the special forces.

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Speaker 1: Now at this point, that's a pretty new concept. The

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Speaker 1: very first kind of modern special forces teams were in

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Speaker 1: World War Two. Some people will say that like the

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Speaker 1: German um uh Falstrom Yeager, some of which were like

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Speaker 1: their their their paratroopers. They had some units that were

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Speaker 1: kind of the first modern spec ops units. UM, and

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Speaker 1: you have you know, some some British and some American

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Speaker 1: units that are kind of experimenting with some of this ship.

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Speaker 1: Vietnam is really where the modern special forces kind of

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Speaker 1: comes together as a distinct thing for the first time

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Speaker 1: in a modern way. Um, where we get the first

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Speaker 1: Green Beret teams. Right, that's kind of the first popular

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Speaker 1: concept of special forces comes from these these teams, which

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Speaker 1: are initially called A teams, which is why the A

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Speaker 1: Team was called the A team that President Kennedy sends

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Speaker 1: into Vietnam in nineteen sixty one, and they gradually like,

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Speaker 1: that's what becomes the idea of Green Berets, is these

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Speaker 1: these A teams become the Green Berets. When's the Mr

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Speaker 1: T episode? Huh. Mr T has never done anything wrong,

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Speaker 1: so we're not going to be doing that episode. Look,

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Speaker 1: he gave up his chains after Hurricane Katrina. Okay what Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Mr T gave up because he went to help in

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Speaker 1: the relief efforts and he was he was horrified by

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Speaker 1: the privation and poverty he saw on the side. It

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Speaker 1: would be obscene for him to continue wearing gold. Damn.

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Speaker 1: This is a story where we yeah, I got nothing

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Speaker 1: to say bad about Mr T. Yeah, and the serial

390
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: was good one. He's also super vocal about like vaccinations.

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Speaker 1: He thinks it's good to be vaccinated. Yes, damn it.

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Speaker 1: We need strong men likeness. I pity the fool who

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Speaker 1: cannot appreciate Mr T. Like legitimately pity the fool. Um.

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Speaker 1: So this idea of like specially trained super soldiers that

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Speaker 1: you drop behind enemy lines and they fight under incredible odds,

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Speaker 1: this is like Hollywood fodder. Like as soon as we

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Speaker 1: start having these Special Forces guys in Vietnam, Hollywood's like, oh, ship,

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Speaker 1: this is all We're gonna make movies about for forever, right,

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Speaker 1: Like this is this is the only thing we want

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Speaker 1: to turn into a movie now. Inter Robin Moore Robin

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Speaker 1: Moore is a World War Two veteran and a journalist who,

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Speaker 1: because of his connections to I think it was Ted

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Speaker 1: Kennedy got to go through Special Forces school as a civilian.

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Speaker 1: He's I don't know if he's the only, but he's

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Speaker 1: the first civilian to ever do this. And he embeds

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Speaker 1: with the Green Berets in Vietnam, and he's technically a journalist,

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Speaker 1: but he's also like fighting alongside them, which is ethically

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Speaker 1: kind of blurring the lines of journalism. He's a real

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Speaker 1: interesting character to study, Robin Moore. Being embedded is like

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Speaker 1: a little sauce. You're always like, yeah, it compromises objectivity

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Speaker 1: anytime you're embedded, but shooting people is a real violation

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Speaker 1: of any kind of burned huts. He may have burned

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Speaker 1: some huts, a little bit of hut burning um. And

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Speaker 1: he's fun because he'll get conned by a dude named

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Speaker 1: Jack Adiema during the war in Afghanistan. But that's a

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Speaker 1: lot later when he's an old man, so he writes

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Speaker 1: he's in the he spends a bunch of time with

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Speaker 1: these Green Berets. He writes this book, The Green Berets,

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Speaker 1: which is like, it's like on the best seller list

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Speaker 1: for more than a year. It's a huge hit. People

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Speaker 1: fucking and he has to he has to be in

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Speaker 1: during the height of the war, like sixty it's like

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Speaker 1: sixty five or six. I think that it published. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like, um sometimes I think it must have been

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Speaker 1: like sixty five. Um, so pretty early on. Uh. And

426
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 1: he publishes this book as a fiction book because he

427
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: has to do that in order to pretend he's not

428
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: giving away operational secrets. The government considers prosecuting him because

429
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: he's writing about a bunch of ship he shouldn't be

430
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 1: writing about. Um, it's a weird call to just let

431
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: this guy hang out with your special forces. But then

432
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: he writes a book that pisses them off a lot.

433
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: And the reason, one of the reasons apparently that they

434
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 1: don't go through prosecuting him, is that John Wayne buys

435
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 1: the film rights from Robin Moore, um, in order to

436
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: make a movie. Um. And so yeah he well, now

437
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: that Wayne is attached, Well, what happens is he sends

438
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: a letter to President Lyndon Baynes Johnson to try to

439
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: get his cooperation, because he basically says, I want to

440
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: make the first pro war movie about the Vietnam War.

441
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: To try and build public support for this thing. He writes, quote,

442
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: we want to show such scenes as the little village

443
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: that has erected its own statue of liberty to the

444
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: American people. We want to bring out that if we

445
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: abandon these people, there will be a blood bath of

446
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: over two million souls. We want to show the professional

447
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: soldier carrying out his duty of death, but also his

448
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: extracurricular activities helping small communities, giving them medical supplies, toys

449
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: for their children's and little things like soap. Um. So

450
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: that's the movie. Like John Wayne sends this letter, soap A. K. Hayden, Napalm.

451
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: Napalm cleans things. You know, eventually there's no bacteria in

452
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: the wake of a napalm strike. Absolutely, so you want

453
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: to get rid of napalm knocks it right out, um,

454
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: right up from history Net continues quote. John Wayne took

455
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: his first step towards production of the picture in nineteen

456
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: sixty five, buying the film rights from the author more

457
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: the path was cleared in nearly nineteen sixty six when

458
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: President Johnson's advisor Jack Valinti convinced lb J to give

459
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 1: Wayne permission to make the film. Valinti observed, Wayne's politics

460
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: are wrong, but insofar as Vietnam is concerned, his views

461
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: are right. If he made the picture, he would be

462
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: saying the things we once said. So I mean he's

463
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: doing he's offering it for free. I mean this is

464
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: before the U. S. Military would bankroll things like black

465
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: Hogdown or like fucking even transformers. They put money behind

466
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: transformers and ship It's fun. You say that, because this

467
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: is how that starts. Oh cute, qute, que cute, Oh

468
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: my god, origin story. But you know what else is

469
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: starting right now, Francesca, what the products and services that

470
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: support this podcast? Their ads are starting right now. Oh

471
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: we're back. Well. I don't know about you, Francesca, but

472
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: those ads convinced me to become a Green Beret. I'm

473
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: gonna go fight in Vietnam. Was it a ZIP recruiter

474
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: at it was? It was, it was, and it has

475
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: convinced me to take up the fight. I keep calling

476
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: the recruiters and they keep saying there's no war in Vietnam.

477
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: You can't just travel to Vietnam and start fighting people

478
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: like you. You'll go to prison forever. But I'm gonna

479
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: do it. I'm gonna give it a shot. Like we

480
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 1: need a social media manager. You're like green beret, green

481
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: beret that's what I'm gonna do. Um oh my god.

482
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: So really foreshadowing of the the US military funding this.

483
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: Uh huh, well, not funding it. It's not quite there yet,

484
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: but this is this we'll get into it. So Wayne

485
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: John Wayne makes his son Michael the film's producer because nepotism,

486
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: and in February of nineteen sixty six, he hires James

487
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: Lee Barrett, who's a former marine and a screenwriter, to

488
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: draft a screen play. And the screenplay has very little

489
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: to do with Robin Moore's book. That's again some people

490
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: will allege part of the agreement he made with the

491
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: government where like, I'll adapt this into a movie, but

492
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: I won't include anything from the book really because the

493
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: book is full of a bunch of secrets you didn't

494
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: want getting out. And that's part of why the LBJ

495
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 1: administration is like, well this, this can help us kind

496
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: of launder away some of the ship we didn't want

497
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: people to know that's in that book. Um. So, the

498
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,959
Speaker 1: two Waynes and Barrett visit the Defense Department in Fort Bragg,

499
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: uh in order to like so they get like approval

500
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: from the government to see where special forces trained and

501
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: to do research and whatnot and the production receives. And

502
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: this is one of the first times this has happened.

503
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: A substantial amount of help from the armed forces. Um.

504
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: They did pay fees to use d o D property

505
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: and for some of the equipment least to them, um,

506
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,239
Speaker 1: but a lot of stuff was made free for them

507
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: as props, which did substantially defray costs. Some biographers like

508
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: Jensen dispute this UH and John Wayne would go on

509
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: to claim that they paid for everything. This does not

510
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: seem to have been entirely accurate. It does seem like

511
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: they got a good amount of stuff, at least subsidized,

512
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: that would have cost more or just not been available

513
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: if the d D hadn't played ball. And evidence for

514
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: this can be seen in the fact that the studio

515
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: allowed the Pentagon to retain script control. Right. Wow, So

516
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: you had like forty eight, you had you had something

517
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: kind of like partnerships with Hollywood or not in forty

518
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: In the forties, for like World War Two, you had

519
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: some partnerships with Hollywood and the d O D. This

520
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: is the first time that you have like an independent

521
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: movie that a studio is making on its own that

522
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: they kind of make a deal with the government in

523
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: exchange for stuff to give the Pentagon script control, right,

524
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: and the d D does request extensive rewrites and detailed

525
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: changes to the plot and dialogue, and those changes are made. Uh.

526
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: This is the first modern movie co written by the

527
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: Pentagon in exchange for access to gear in military infrastructure.

528
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: It is not to the same extent that it will

529
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: later be. Right, they're not getting nearly as much ship free.

530
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: They are paying for more ship. But this is the

531
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: start of that process. Yeah. I just think it's incredible

532
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 1: that at this time you could turn on the television

533
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: and just watch Yeah, kids coming home in body bags. Uh,

534
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: children with napalm burns on them, Like the Meli massacre

535
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: was very much publicized. Don't worry, but just and and

536
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: you're like, well, but this one movie, this is gonna do.

537
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: It's silver bullet like turning around baby. I mean arguably right.

538
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: That was the lesson of Vietnam was like, oh, just

539
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: do the propaganda movies don't show what's actually happening around Well,

540
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: and it is this. You can never do it for everybody,

541
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: but with the right movies at the right time, you

542
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: can change what happens in a war for a select population.

543
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: Like the movie American Sniper for a certain chunk of

544
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: Americans has changed the thing they private like because of

545
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: how big that movie was in certain chunks of the population.

546
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: A lot of people when they think of the Iraq

547
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: War don't think about that we of the government light

548
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: a shipload to get us in there. That are primary.

549
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: Many of our goals were not achieved if there were

550
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: not weapons of mass destruction, that the Iraqi people suffered tremendously,

551
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: that the rebuilding process was corrupted and efficient. They think, big,

552
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: strong guy sniper, he shoot people good, look at him,

553
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: he's American Sniper. I got him on a hat. I'm

554
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: gonna wear it. That's Bradley Cooper, right, Yeah, it's Bradley

555
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: Cooper exactly. That's why when the hurt Locker, I'm like,

556
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: man like, I support women directors, but why does it

557
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: got to be Cavin Bigelow doing the hurt Locker, Like, really,

558
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: that's the story. And then she gets on stage and

559
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: thanks the firefighters. I'm sorry, I'm showing my prejudice against you.

560
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: Can't you you can't actually have a movie about the

561
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: Iraq War, um, because it would be I mean, there's

562
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: issues with the movie Vice but that's an actual movie

563
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: about the Iraq War to an extent, where it's about

564
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: like the the people and kind of the venal and

565
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: corrupt attitudes that lead us in there. You can't have

566
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: a movie about what the Iraq War is actually about,

567
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: but you can make a bunch of movies about likable

568
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: dudes in the Iraq War that will make people feel

569
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: more fondly towards the military and the military industrial complex

570
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: as opposed to just be like, all of these wars

571
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: are disasters and clearly the people running our defense department

572
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: are incompetent because look at how these get handled every time.

573
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: Look at how badly these wars were prosecuted. That's not

574
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: like you're not gonna forbid perspective of an Iraqi either.

575
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: I mean, every now and then, I will say this.

576
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: The movie Mosle, which was um directed by it was Carnahan,

577
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: but it was produced by the Russo brothers. That is

578
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: a really good movie that does it. There's not like

579
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: an American in that movie. Really, it's all like iraqis.

580
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: All of the characters, Uh, they think they're pretty much

581
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: a good a buddy of mine. Sangar was actually like

582
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: the local consultant on the cultural consultant on the film. Um,

583
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: and it does. As someone who was there in Mosle,

584
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: it was a really good job. I know some of

585
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: the dudes it was based on here, so you do

586
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: actually get some really good like it. It doesn't not

587
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: happen right like stuff like this, But most people probably

588
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: haven't seen Mosele. And everybody knows about the movie American Sniper,

589
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: you know, and this doesn't have Bradley. This doesn't have Bradley.

590
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: Um and again like just this is happening in Vietnam too. Um,

591
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: the Green Berets becomes the only I think definitely the

592
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: first and I think the only pro Vietnam movie about

593
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: Vietnam that comes out during the war. Um what's his name?

594
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: Makes Platoon specifically because he hates the Green Berets so

595
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: much like the movie Platoon is a reaction to how

596
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: what a piece of propaganda that Green Berets is? Is

597
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: that Oliver Stone? Or am I I think it's Stone?

598
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,959
Speaker 1: I think it's Stone? Um? And he he gets like

599
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: piste off by what a piece of bullshit this film becomes.

600
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: I've never I need to see Green Berets because I've

601
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: never like I've never seen a positive spin on the

602
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: Vietnam It's pretty fun. I watched it as a kid.

603
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: My parents wanted me to see if they thought it

604
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: was a great movie. One of my uncle's was a

605
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: Green Beret, so like, yeah, and it's think, um, I

606
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: mean he abandoned anyway, we don't need to get into

607
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: my uncle. Um, we don't need to talk about that

608
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,479
Speaker 1: uncle in particular. I never I never knew him super well,

609
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: but like his service was a regular topic of discussion.

610
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: I think that's part of why my mom wanted me

611
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: to see To the Green Berets, is to know that

612
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: what my uncle Jim had done in the Green Berets. Um.

613
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: But this, I don't think this is a particularly accurate

614
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: movie about what the Green Berets did. And it's certainly

615
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: like it's filmed in Fort Bragg. It's very obviously not Vietnam.

616
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 1: It's like pine tree form. It could not look like Vietnam. Um. So,

617
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: this film, though, would start to prove to be kind

618
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: of the start of what is to date a decades

619
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: long collaboration between Hollywood and the d O d Um.

620
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 1: You know, it's a it's a proof of concept. The

621
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: film is utterly panned by reviewers, and it actually sparked

622
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: anti war protests in New York, Los Angeles and other

623
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: cities that because they protest, it makes conservatives loves that

624
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: love the film even more, right, Like, sure, do you

625
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 1: hear there's this there's this movie about our brave soldiers,

626
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: and they're protesting it in l a Like that's not

627
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: going to do anything but make you love it more.

628
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: Absolutely Suddenly it's it's it's become a martyr of the right. Yeah,

629
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: they love that stuff. Roger Ebert called it cowboy and

630
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: Indian idiotic. Renata Adler of The New York Times called

631
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: it vile and insane. Uh, none of this stopped it

632
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: from being a huge commercial success, earning twelve million dollars,

633
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: which is all of the money in the world in

634
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: nine dollars, and giving John un Wayne an excuse to

635
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: call the bad reviews quote ridiculously one sided, blind, stupid

636
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: criticism of our picture that made real people more conscious

637
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:13,959
Speaker 1: of just how honest we were anti American. They tried

638
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: to cancel us, but can't cancel America. This is like

639
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: what the Daily Wire is going to try to remake.

640
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: They're gonna like remake the Green Berets and Shapiro is

641
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: going to fund it. Now here's the thing. John Wayne

642
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: was talented, so we are I am a little less

643
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: worried about Ben Shapiro because John Wayne had things he

644
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 1: was good at. There was there's the other Quigly sister,

645
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: it's like Margaret Quickly, and then there's the You've got

646
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 1: James Woods, James Woods, there's one other washed up right

647
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: wing celebrity, and you've got like Kirk Cameron. Get them

648
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: all together and get your A Team together, do a

649
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: new A Team reboot with just like disgraced conservative actors.

650
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh man, I need to see that.

651
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: Have have the have the have your like Bosley be Uh,

652
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: Kelsey Grammar. Yeah, introducing Kyle Rittenhouse. Turns out that cry

653
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: was fake. Kyle Rittenhouse and James Woods in a fucking

654
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 1: action shoot him up. Ah yeah, do it? Do it?

655
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: We dare you? We want to see this. But yeah,

656
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 1: so it's interesting. I do legitimately want to see that movie.

657
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: It'll happen, It will have something like that, will have

658
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: written the House will get cast in an action movie

659
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: within the next couple of years, for sure. It is

660
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: just interesting that, like, even though he was a good actor,

661
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: like this sucked and it was like like sixty nine

662
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: it came out. Well, it's I think it sucked. I

663
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: think you would probably think it sucked. Most reviewers think

664
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: it sucked. A lot of people don't. A lot of

665
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: people like and they're not like when I say it's successful.

666
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: They're not like just blindly buying it to own the libs.

667
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: They enjoy it. It's a movie that's got some cool

668
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: action sequences and ship like it's not a good movie

669
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: about the Vietnam War, but as a movie, it succeeds

670
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: in making the audience happy. So you know, like so

671
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: it it like mission accomplished. Yeah, absolutely accomplished. Um And

672
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: and Wayne makes a big deal in like the the

673
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: ads for this or in the pr campaign for this movie,

674
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: the fact that he visited Vietnam and like spent time

675
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: with soldiers on his own, without handlers. He was like

676
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: adjacent to combat. He's on like chunks of the line

677
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: where there is shooting. Um And he gets really popular

678
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,479
Speaker 1: with a lot of soldiers he meets there because they're like, oh, hey,

679
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: this guy who I saw in movies as a kid,

680
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 1: who like influenced my conception of manhood is like here

681
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 1: standing on the line. Uh, that's great. UM. So you know,

682
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: some of them think this is cool. There's obviously a

683
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: lot of Vietnam veterans, perhaps even significantly more of Vietnam

684
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,479
Speaker 1: veterans who have been in combat and see this movie

685
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: and are like, well, this is just rank gross propaganda.

686
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: But it's not like one sided. There are a lot

687
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: of Vietnam veterans who like the fact that he does this. UM.

688
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: But it also must have been like the death of

689
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: a hero for a lot of the kids when they realize, well, yeah,

690
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: who were actually there and saw their friends die and

691
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: got injured and maimed and for what, Like it's kind

692
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: of that moment where you're you're like your hero, you

693
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: realize it's like a vicious right winger. It's this moment

694
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: a lot of people have in UM, A lot of

695
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: British kids have in World War One, when they realized

696
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: that all of these poems they had been told read about,

697
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 1: like the glory of war and all of these lutrid

698
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: paintings of colonial victories, that like, now here's what it's

699
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: really like to get shot at by a machine gun.

700
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: There's nothing glorious or manly about it. UM, And that

701
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: that there are a bunch of people who have it

702
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: and a bunch of kids who like had joined and

703
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: volunteered for Vietnam in part because of the things that

704
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: John Wayne had led him to believe about masculinity. Um

705
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 1: in Jesus and John Wayne, Dumez rights as one working

706
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: class Vietnam veteran later recalled he went to Vietnam to

707
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: kill a comie for Jesus Christ and John Wayne. It

708
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: was Sands of Iwajima that inspired ron Kovic to volunteer

709
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: for the Marines during the Vietnam War, a war that

710
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 1: would cost him the use of his legs and lead

711
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: to a disenchantment with war that he chronicled in his

712
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: memoir Born on the Fourth of July. Off screen, to

713
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 1: Wayne worked to recruit young men to the war effort,

714
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 1: ridiculing as soft those who didn't enlist. One critic labeled

715
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: Wayne the most important man in America given the role

716
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: his films played in driving American engagement in Vietnam. Covics

717
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: would later say on his previously John and Wayne inspired

718
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: ideas about war and manhood. I gave my dead dick

719
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: for John Wayne. Oh my God, and he made a

720
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: necklace out of them. Just a bunch of dead American

721
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: John Wayne just a bunch of kids, dicks on his

722
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: neck and kid Dick's adorning him like a head dress

723
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: like this is. He does get a bracelet from the Montignards,

724
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: but yeah, this is still his unfulfilled World War Two.

725
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: Um like whatever fantasy or or shame really that he's like, well,

726
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to send other people to die now. That

727
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 1: is what a lot of people who knew him suggest

728
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: is that he never got over his shame for failing

729
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: to serve in World War Two. So he decided like,

730
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 1: this is how I'm going to overcome it is by

731
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 1: getting all these kids to serve in my place in

732
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: this other war. You know, I I didn't come through then,

733
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna come through now for America by getting

734
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: all these kids to die in a jungle for nothing.

735
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: I mean, what's crazy? Is it? Like today you would

736
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: see John Wayne and this career path and be like, oh,

737
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: he's an OP, like he was created by the c

738
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: I A Like he's been a d O D like

739
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: OP from the beginning. And he's not like he just

740
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: know he did this. They've been sure, but he's he's

741
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: he's motivated by his own shame because he realizes that

742
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: being the guy he is, he should have fucking done

743
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: something in World War two, Um, and he did not.

744
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: What I mean is he just seems like he was

745
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: created in the lab of like all of America's lies,

746
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: just like sewn together in some you know, evil scarecrow.

747
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: He's all of our lies sewn together in a package

748
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 1: that unfortunately is really good at a specific kind of acting.

749
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: And it allows him to, yeah, just like stand in

750
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: front of me and get them to sign up to

751
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: go fight in Vietnam and ridicule people as soft for

752
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: refusing to do it. If John Wayne slapped someone at

753
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: the Oscars, well we're building that, Francesca. So the Ballot

754
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: or the Green Berets, launched six months after the Tet Offensive,

755
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: put a lie to the idea that the US was

756
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: particularly close to a victory in Vietnam. Within months of

757
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: its release, the first rumors of the Malai massacre had

758
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: begun to percolate out into the culture. So right after

759
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: this movie we find out that American soldiers have killed

760
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 1: hundreds of civilians brutally um in the sacking of this village.

761
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: So the Green Berets had shown US soldiers spending most

762
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: of their time helping adorable kids and like building up

763
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: villages and infrastructure projects. The reality was that very often

764
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: US troops killed those same kids and blew those villages

765
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: to bits. John Wayne portrayed war crimes as purely the

766
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 1: purview of the viet Cong, while reality proved him wrong

767
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: over and over again. Large numbers of Conservatives tucked their

768
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: heads into the comforting lie he had offered them. John

769
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: Wayne referred to the Milai massacre as the so called

770
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: Milai Massacre and redirected any questions about it to lurid

771
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: claims about atrocities committed against our people by the viet Cong.

772
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: It's again, it's like what about is um where It's like, yeah,

773
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: it's a war. You can always find bad things that

774
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 1: every side has done in a war. But he's pretending

775
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: that like, oh, Americans are just they're handing out clean

776
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: water and these meanal viet Cong or killing them for

777
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: some reason, for no reason at all. Um, Yeah, so

778
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 1: much so called me lie. There's not even a village.

779
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: He would be like, look, there's so much going on

780
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: in Vietnam that there's no good reason. Quote one little

781
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: incident in the United States Army should make a fuss.

782
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: The reality, the sad reality, I mean a sad reality

783
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: is I feel like there are way more mealies that

784
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: we just don't know about. There's a number we do

785
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: know about. There were quite a few times like that happens. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

786
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 1: We remember this one, but there were many, many, many others.

787
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: We don't have a the tipre tongue, the images of

788
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: which were not particularly even you know, they weren't captured.

789
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: The journalist wasn't there on the ground at the right

790
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,919
Speaker 1: moment of the right time, or I mean, the reason

791
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 1: mel becomes what it is is because one of the

792
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: officers who sees it like threatens to machine gun everybody

793
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 1: if they don't stop, and then reports it landed his

794
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: helicopter in between civilians and was like, fucking stop. A

795
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:01,280
Speaker 1: cool dude, way a way cooler dude than John Wayne. Yeah,

796
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: so other far right figures rushed into assure John Wayne

797
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: that he was right on the money. Um, and he

798
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: is to you know, still to this day, popular with

799
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: a segment of Vietnam veterans who want to believe that

800
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: they were there for a reason, or that their kids

801
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 1: were there for a reason fighting a fight that needed

802
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: to be fought. No less a fascist luminary than Douglas

803
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: MacArthur told John Wayne that he represented quote the American

804
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: serviceman better than the American serviceman himself. There. Here's what's

805
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: funny about that is General Douglas MacArthur fired from his

806
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: job prosecuting the Korean War for number one not being

807
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: great at it and number two wanting asking for permission

808
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: to nuke China and Russia. Repeatedly, Um, douglasman, please, please please.

809
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,399
Speaker 1: Douglas MacArthur, famous for his you know, command of US

810
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: forces in the Philippines. Uh. Also the Duke like he's

811
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: saying that John Wayne represents the American service better than

812
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: the American serviceman. During the Bonus Army Marches, which is

813
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: when a bunch of US World or one veterans were

814
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: like marching during the Great Depression to get the money

815
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 1: that they were promised by the government, Douglas MacArthur led

816
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: the forces that gunned them down with tanks and the

817
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 1: machine guts DC. So I really want to hear who

818
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: Douglas McCarthy thinks represents the American serviceman best. He seems

819
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: like a good source on that Douglas MacArthur would never

820
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: do the American servicemen wrong by, say, killing many of

821
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: them for protesting because they're not getting paid. I love you,

822
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: fucking Douglas MacArthur. The amount of times I was told

823
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: that piece of ship was a hero as a kid

824
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 1: makes me want to light some things on fucking fire.

825
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 1: And by the way, Patton was there with him, so

826
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: fuck them all. Damn well that is I mean, sadly,

827
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: this is this is the American military, and it always

828
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: has been. Right. We like the myth better than the

829
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: actual soldier. Fucked the soldier. Fuck the soldier. We want them,

830
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: we want the John Wayne. I mean, it's the same

831
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 1: thing soldier getting convenient as hell. A lot of them

832
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: have experiences that are really hard to monetize. I know,

833
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: they're never posing, they don't know what to do with

834
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: the props. Ever. Some of them are sad. They're always

835
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: just attached to home life anyway. But it is this

836
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: sounds like the crassness, and I hate to bring it

837
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: to to now because I'm just like Funk, We've always

838
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: been this way. But you hear that crassness, you know

839
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: I'm not going to defend John McCain but saying that

840
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 1: like he was like a loser because he was captured.

841
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: You hear that you have and then you've got like

842
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: fucking Trump leaning over you know, World War One and

843
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: two soldiers being like what was this? Why did they die? Losers?

844
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,240
Speaker 1: That is within the context of this episode. At least

845
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: McCain as like a rich kid who didn't have to

846
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: went and got fucked up. Um. I have a lot

847
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: more respect for John Kerry because he wasn't bombing people, um,

848
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: and also got sucked up. But you know, at least

849
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: they both of them, unlike John Wayne put skin in

850
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: the game. You know. Um, John Wayne didn't even have

851
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: like that. Uh. I guess it's one of those things.

852
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,240
Speaker 1: I guess it's morally better to advocate for an unjust

853
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: war and serving it than it is to advocate for

854
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: an unjust war and refused to serving it. I think

855
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: I feel like that that does sound weird, but at

856
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: least at least it's evident. It's like with fucking um

857
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: what's his name the star who like testified, who like

858
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: win against his studio to go like talk at the

859
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: fucking um to name names and ship. At least he

860
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,879
Speaker 1: was putting his skin in the game. I guess it's

861
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: not I don't know better and worse or useless terms

862
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 1: for this, but at least like it points to the

863
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: fact that, well, this person did believe in the shitty

864
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: thing that we're doing. You're not just a total fucking

865
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 1: empty hypocrite, right, Yeah, I don't know. It's weird. I

866
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: I don't want to be like trying to mark any

867
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: of this down as moral lessons because it's it's bad

868
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: to bomb people, John don't mark down just at least like,

869
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm more there's something more unsettling about

870
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: a person who like is so empty that all of

871
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: these things are just posturing for them. And I don't

872
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 1: know how much that is true for because some of

873
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 1: it maybe that John Wayne really did believe he should

874
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: have served in World War Two and kind of hated

875
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: himself and that's what's driving him to do this. I

876
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: don't know. There's a lot of complicated ship going on,

877
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: and that has a lot to say about masculinity. This

878
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: podcast isn't going to say all of it, but it's

879
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: definitely stuff I think about a bunch. Yeah, I don't

880
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 1: I don't like emotionally unavailable man. That's like your first boyfriend,

881
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But then you move on

882
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: and you're like, I mean, I've been that boyfriend for

883
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: a lot of people. But yeah, I wasn't gonna say anything, Robert,

884
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: but you know you just learned, I'll learn to open up. Um.

885
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: So you know, he's he's pretty happy after the Green Berets.

886
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: This really cements him in the right wing as this

887
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 1: kind of like littant ur con of masculinity. It wipes

888
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: away this sort of shame of his failure to serve

889
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: in World War Two. Um, it gets him. You know,

890
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: he's he's he. It kind of helps him settle into

891
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: his new role as an elder conservative icon. Ronald Reagan

892
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 1: actually reaches out to him and it's like, hey, bro,

893
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: you know what you ought to do is become governor

894
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: of California. Like we could put your ass in the

895
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: White House one day. And thank god, he says, no,

896
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 1: he's not in great health. Thank god he because he

897
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: would have won for sure, would have definitely would have won.

898
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 1: I can't imagine a few I can't imagine a series

899
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 1: of invention which John Wayne runs for governor of California

900
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: and loses I can't conceive of it. No, we we

901
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: are trash here in this state. We we've I mean,

902
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: look at how many times one And he's a way

903
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: better person than John Wayne. Yeah, No, it's very true.

904
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 1: Not a good person, but better. Yeah, dude, what does

905
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: Arnold do for American masculinity? I honestly, I think he

906
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: was probably a better I think as I think as

907
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 1: the fucking Terminator, he was a healthier symbol of American

908
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: masculinity than John Wayne. Because a big thing the Terminator

909
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: stands for is like putting yourself before or putting your

910
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: child before, a kid before yourself, and like making the

911
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: success and happiness of that child the entire like motive

912
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,879
Speaker 1: force of your life. Right, Like, there's actually some nice

913
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:33,280
Speaker 1: things in that movie, nice dad's stuff in that movie. Back,

914
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: he actually will be back. It's not like John Wayne

915
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: is going to go start another fucking family. No, He's

916
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: gonna be back in some increasingly hard to follow sequels

917
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: that we don't need to talk about, um whatever. Broadly speaking,

918
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 1: the cyborg Killer Bought from the Future is a better

919
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 1: symbol of of emotionally available manhood than any John Wayne character.

920
00:51:53,520 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: Yes that, um so, Yeah, John Wayne chose not to

921
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: get into politics in an electoral capacity, but he did

922
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: spend the rest of his life bloviating about politics readily,

923
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: as this passage from the book Jesus and John Wayne

924
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: makes clear. In the nineteen seventy one interview in Playboy,

925
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: Wayne was particularly harsh in his assessment of the blacks

926
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: or colored or whatever they might want to call themselves.

927
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 1: They certainly aren't Caucasian. With a lot of blacks, there's

928
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: quite a lot of resentment along with their descent, and

929
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 1: possibly rightly so, possibly rightly so, but we can't all

930
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 1: of a sudden get down on our knees and turn

931
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 1: everything over to the leadership of the blacks. I believe

932
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a

933
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: point of responsibility. I don't believe in giving authority and

934
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people. As far

935
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: as African American representation in his own films, Wayne asserted

936
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: that he'd given the blacks their proper position. He had

937
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: a black slave in the Alamo, and he had a

938
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 1: correct number of blacks in the Green Berets. His views

939
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 1: on Native America Rikans were no more enlightened. I don't

940
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,280
Speaker 1: feel we did wrong in taking this great country away

941
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: from the Native Americans are so called stealing of this

942
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 1: country from them was just a matter of survival. People

943
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 1: needed land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep

944
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: it for themselves. Outstanding ship, John Wayne, incredibly boom bloody.

945
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: Keep telling yourself that and finish the bottle. That is.

946
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 1: I just it's it's um Sometimes kind of I feel

947
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: like I'm looking at racism in a terrarium, like it's

948
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: so crystallized and perfect. It like it's I don't hate them,

949
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: They're just you know, second class citizens, and they're not responsible,

950
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:43,720
Speaker 1: and they're idiots, and it's it's a very specific kind

951
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: of racist, and that I don't think today John Wayne

952
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: would have if he was around to day, he would

953
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: never call himself a white supremacist in an interview. He

954
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: would not to say he wouldn't have believed the same things.

955
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 1: Admit back then. If you admit said you were, you

956
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: believed in white supremacy. You know, when till they're educator

957
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: or whatever. That's not controversial, that's not a fringe right

958
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: wing thing. That does not identify you as part of

959
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: a dangerous political sect in nineteen one. And part of

960
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: the evidence for that is that, like the only people

961
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: who get angry when he says this are like black publication.

962
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: There's there's there's like no impact on the mainstream because

963
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: John Wayne. Liberals are like, no, he's got a point, Yeah,

964
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 1: the leaders are crazy, or they're more just like, oh, well,

965
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: you know, that's just that's just John Wayne. You know,

966
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: that's just how certain people think and like it's it's

967
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: not it's not the same as calling yourself a white

968
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: supremacist in two thousand and twenty two would be like,

969
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: he's not, he's not identifying himself with a fringe of

970
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: the political spectrum here. It sort of reminds me of

971
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 1: oh god, I hate I hate doing the show and

972
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: bringing up like like uh like a present day examples.

973
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: But it reminds me of Joe R. Hio going in

974
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 1: front of that like fringe spa group. Yes it was,

975
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 1: and like some people say I'm a racist and everyone's

976
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: like cheering, and he was like, well wait, I was

977
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,839
Speaker 1: supposed to the point was that I'm not Why are

978
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: you cheering? It's not a good thing, and they're like, no,

979
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: we've changed. Yeah. I could see John Wayne getting like

980
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:26,839
Speaker 1: tricked by something like that, and he probably would have

981
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 1: liked backpedaled again, not because he's not racist, but because

982
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: he would not be the kind of guy who would

983
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 1: want to like look bad like he doesn't. John Wayne

984
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 1: would not have wanted to completely alienate himself from like

985
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: his liberal friends, or from like the academy and ship.

986
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: He was not, it was not He was not that

987
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,720
Speaker 1: kind of political figure, you know, sure Hollywood number one. Yeah, yeah,

988
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: so he would have I think he would have. He

989
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: would have choosed he would have said the same thing

990
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 1: in different words. If he was interviewed today, you know, um,

991
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: slightly more careful words and less he was really drunk,

992
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 1: then he would have said the same thing, and it

993
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 1: would have been a problem for him. Um, but not

994
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: that big a problem. He would have been okay. But

995
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 1: still even without white supremacy in there, which is yeah, jarring,

996
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: It is a perfect distillation of a lot of white

997
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:18,280
Speaker 1: American thinking. Yes at the time and sometimes currently. Again,

998
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: he's not like fringe in anyway. This is all very

999
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:27,720
Speaker 1: mainstream stuff. Um, you know what else is mainstream? What

1000
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:31,839
Speaker 1: the products and services that support this podcast, like racism,

1001
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 1: They're all deeply woven into the fabric of American society.

1002
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: How's that, Sophie? Is that good? I think you you

1003
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 1: crushed it? My friend? Is that good? That going to

1004
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: make him happy? All right? Beautiful? Uh, we're doing great,

1005
00:56:54,600 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 1: folks were back. We're happy. Everybody's smiling, everybody laughing. Ending, right,

1006
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 1: it does have an ending, and that ending occurs probably

1007
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: in Hollywood. Um so uh John Wayne, well, I think

1008
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 1: he probably would have been more careful today than he

1009
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: was in nineteen seventy one. I should note that he

1010
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: also blew his cover as a giant racist on several occasions,

1011
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: and one of those would have been the nineteen seventy

1012
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 1: three Oscars. This is the most recent reason John Wayne

1013
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 1: went viral in the wake of Will Smith lightly slapping

1014
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: a dude and then, let's say moderately slapping a dude.

1015
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: I was waiting for the Evans take on this, like

1016
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: it's I think it was a really good film slap right,

1017
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: like it read on camera really well. Um but yeah,

1018
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 1: so people brought up when I'm frustrated. It's weeks later

1019
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 1: and they still think pieces coming out about this, the

1020
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: things people said, I've got a forthcoming one, oh good,

1021
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 1: oh good. There was this, there was this fucking stuff

1022
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 1: about like, uh, you know, Will Smith getting canceled and like,

1023
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: but nothing happened to John Wayne when and then they

1024
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: would talk about this story that we're about to talk about,

1025
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:15,919
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, okay, this is a good one.

1026
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: So Marlon Brando right famously not a problematic dude. Uh,

1027
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 1: star of the Isle of Dr Moreau and probably a

1028
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: couple of other movies, got nominated for Best Actor for

1029
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 1: his role in the Godfather, which is not nearly as

1030
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: good a movie as The Isle of Dr Moreau, but whatever.

1031
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 1: So Brando had struck up what seems to be a

1032
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 1: really legitimate and honest friendship with an Indigenous American activist

1033
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: named Sashin Little Feather. She was of Apache and Yaki

1034
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: descent and was angry at Hollywood for a white variety

1035
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: of understandable reasons. Uh. And Brando agreed with her about

1036
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: the things she was angry about. So he decides he's

1037
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: going to turn down the Oscar if he wins it. Um.

1038
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: So she's hanging out with him the night that he's

1039
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: supposed to like go to the Oscars, and he's typing

1040
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: out this eight page speech in case he wins. And

1041
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: this speech he wanted to use his podium to protest

1042
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: the wrongs being that had been done to Native Americans

1043
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: by Hollywood. Right, So, the unjust and racist portrayal of

1044
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: Indigenous people in decades of cowboy movies, including a bunch

1045
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: of John Wayne movies. And he's also specifically, he and

1046
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 1: Little Feather specifically angry about Wounded Knee. So this is

1047
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 1: a battle which is a bunch of just a horrible,

1048
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: horrible battle, and at this moment in seventy three, it's

1049
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: the site of a standoff between Native activists and the

1050
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 1: Feds over the murder of a Lakoda man. Right, So

1051
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 1: that's going on while the oscars are about to happen. Um.

1052
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 1: And so Brando decides he's gonna turn if he wins

1053
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 1: the best Actor, he's going to turn that into a

1054
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 1: place to talk about them. Um. So Little Feather helps

1055
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 1: him put together this speech, and then kind of at

1056
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: the last moment, he's like, well, what if you deliver it? Right,

1057
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 1: I shouldn't deliver it, Like why don't you go don't

1058
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: touch don't even touch the oscar, don't take it. Just

1059
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 1: deliver this speech in my stead, right, Um, if you

1060
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: want to, And she wants to, so he gives her

1061
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: the speech she's written. But when she arrives, the presenters

1062
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: number one seed that like, oh ship Brando's sent this

1063
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 1: person here. She wants to give a speech. Um, you

1064
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: can't have more than sixty seconds. You can't read that

1065
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 1: eight page thing that Marlon Brando gave you. Um. So

1066
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 1: she has to come up with something kind of on

1067
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: the fly, and here's what she comes up with. Hello.

1068
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 1: My name is Sashi Little Feather. I'm APACHE and I'm

1069
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: president of the National Native American Affirmative Image Committee. I'm

1070
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: representing Marlon Brando this evening, and he has asked me

1071
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: to tell you in a very long speech which I

1072
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: cannot share with you presently because of time, but I

1073
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: will be glad to share with the press afterwards, that

1074
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: he very regretfully cannot accept this very generous award. And

1075
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 1: the reasons for this being are the treatment of American

1076
01:00:56,400 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: Indians today by the film industry excuse me, and on

1077
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 1: television and movie reruns, and also with recent happenings that

1078
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: wounded me. I beg at this time that I have

1079
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: not intruded upon this evening and that we will in

1080
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: the future our hearts and our understandings will meet with

1081
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 1: love and generosity. Thank you on behalf of morm and Brando.

1082
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: So that's lovely. Yeah, it's like so much more cordial

1083
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 1: than any account. Extremely polite, yes that any account you

1084
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 1: will read of what happened and how it happened. She

1085
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 1: is like insanely soft spoken, but but firm and like apologetic.

1086
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: I don't I hope I didn't ruin your night, and

1087
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 1: like were so appreciative of the award, but we just

1088
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: can't take it because of like, Yeah, she's very very mild,

1089
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 1: and it's incredible that Hollywood stopped with any kind of

1090
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 1: racist portrayals of Native Americans from that point. Never again happened.

1091
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: Never again happened. I'm gonna google Johnny Depp real quick.

1092
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: Nobody absolutely no reason why I am doing this, just

1093
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 1: typing it into Google. So, um, yeah, she gets a

1094
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: lot of support that night. You hear a lot of clapping,

1095
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 1: a lot of cheers. Um, you do hear some booze,

1096
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 1: though not an insignificant amount. Now I think we both

1097
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: are in agreement. You would have to be a crazy

1098
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: asshole to take any offense at that whatsoever. Um, it's

1099
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: a pretty uh polite and very very mild statement of conviction. Um,

1100
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 1: that is not how John Wayne takes it. And I'm

1101
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 1: going to read another quote from the Guardian here and

1102
01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: this is Um, this is starts with a Little Feather

1103
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: talking she's interviewed for this piece. During my presentation, he

1104
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 1: was coming towards me to forcibly take me off the

1105
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: stage and he had to be restrained by six security

1106
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 1: men to prevent him from doing so. Presenting Best Pictures

1107
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 1: soon after, also for The Godfather, Clint Eastwood quipped, I

1108
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 1: don't know if I should present this award on behalf

1109
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 1: of all the cowboys shot and all the john Ford

1110
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 1: westerns over the years. When Little Feather got backstage, she says,

1111
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: there were people making stereotypical Native American war cries at

1112
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: her and miming chopping with a tomahawk. After talking to

1113
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 1: the press, she went straight back to Brando's house, where

1114
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 1: they sat together and watched the reactions to the event

1115
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: on television. Was John Wayne just there, like, get my

1116
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: movies out, you fucking mouth? Yeah? He was. He He

1117
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 1: would have hit her probably if he could have. He

1118
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 1: was ready to six men. He's a big guy, six men,

1119
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 1: and she's like tiny doesn't look like a big person.

1120
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:58,880
Speaker 1: No um of course sandwich by Oh god, just John

1121
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 1: Wayne and Clint there's still like Clinty's would still mad

1122
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 1: about that. I would have What would have been amazing

1123
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 1: is if Brando had done it and the security guards

1124
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 1: hadn't been there, and we've gotten to see a fist

1125
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 1: fight between fat aging Marlon Brando and fat aging, drunken

1126
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 1: John Wayne at the Oscar. That would have been amazing.

1127
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 1: That would have been incredible. Oh my god, what a

1128
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: moment that would have been. I do feel like dad.

1129
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 1: I mean, look, the ratings were good this last Oscars,

1130
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 1: and I do think that we should have old drunk,

1131
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 1: washed up actors like wrestling each other on stage. I

1132
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 1: want to see Brando bottle John Wayne with some fucking wine,

1133
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: just like nail him in the skull. Yeah, I mean,

1134
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 1: you know. Orson Wells also has like one of the

1135
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 1: most memorable on screen drunk moments where he's trying to

1136
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 1: do the ad for that wine. Yeah. The French there,

1137
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:05,480
Speaker 1: yeah them all fuck it? So uh Sashen is the

1138
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 1: primary source we have on this um, but I don't

1139
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 1: have any particular trouble believing it. John Wayne had a

1140
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: history of hitting women, sometimes in public. Um, and to

1141
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: reinforce that we should talk a bit here about how

1142
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 1: his marriage to his second wife, Chata ended. Yeah, well

1143
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 1: this is actually happens back in ninety six. I'm sorry

1144
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 1: for jumping around. This just seemed like the natural place

1145
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 1: to put this so soon. Here's but yeah, it's right,

1146
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 1: they are not together long. Um. Here's BuzzFeed summing up

1147
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 1: the details. The problem was that the current Latin American

1148
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: wife wasn't fulfilling her domestic duties, which is why they

1149
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 1: were divorcing and why Chata, infuriated and bitter, was alleging

1150
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 1: horrible things about the duke in court that he'd blackened

1151
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 1: her eye, pulled her from bed, and beat her, given

1152
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 1: her multiple bruises, called her obscene names, and was man

1153
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 1: handling her in front of guests. He went someplace where

1154
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 1: there were strip teasers, called girls, prostitutes, or whatever you

1155
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 1: want to call them, she testified. He came home the

1156
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 1: next morning, very drunken, with a big black bite on

1157
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: his neck. This was a human being bite. Wayne's lawyer

1158
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 1: countered that Chatta was a drunk who stayed out all

1159
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 1: night and returned with grass stains. On her clothes and

1160
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: during their estrangement, entertained a male guest at their residence

1161
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 1: while Wayne was on set. The divorce drama threatened to

1162
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 1: become a huge scandal, but Wayne forked over a substantial

1163
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 1: amount of alimony, The two settled, and his image remained unscathed,

1164
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 1: in part because allegations of domestic abuse weren't yet taken seriously,

1165
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: but also because Wayne's alleged actions were not out of

1166
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 1: line with his on screen image, which had him regularly

1167
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 1: verbally abusing women and if not giving them black eyes,

1168
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 1: then man handling, throwing them over shoulders, and generally putting

1169
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:39,400
Speaker 1: them in their place when necessary. So you know, Johnny, Wayne,

1170
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 1: I really I just was so invested in this one.

1171
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: I felt like, you know, it was going to be

1172
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 1: the one. I like him. That quote was allegend horrible

1173
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 1: things about the Duke, all right, Marian The Duke married

1174
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 1: his third wife in nineteen fifty four. The two did

1175
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: originally did eventually divorce. Worse um, they stayed in each

1176
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 1: other's lives to some extent. She's interviewed after his death

1177
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 1: and still speaks very highly of him. So again, these

1178
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 1: are not to the extent that he was abusive. Everyone

1179
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 1: he was with in the past doesn't speak negatively of him.

1180
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: His kids all seem to speak positively of him. They

1181
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 1: claim publicly he was a good father. Um. He was

1182
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 1: in general a charming man and a good friend to

1183
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 1: a number of people. More than that, he seems to

1184
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:29,920
Speaker 1: have just been kind of a magnetically charismatic person. And

1185
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 1: it's easy to forgive certain things of people like that.

1186
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 1: We do it as a society pretty much constantly. Also,

1187
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 1: tall can we privilege does not hurt Um. In nineteen

1188
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 1: seventy seven, when he turned seventy, an article in the

1189
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 1: right wing journal Human Events tried to explain Wayne's a

1190
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: lure as the fact that he represented a basic American breed,

1191
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: the tall celt of pioneer Scott's Irish and English descent.

1192
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 1: The book Jesus and John Wayne continues all of Wayne's

1193
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 1: greatest hits and of valiant white men battling and usually

1194
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: subduing non white populations, the Japanese, Native Americans or Mexicans

1195
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: Like Teddy Roosevelt. Wayne's rugged masculinity was realized through violence,

1196
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 1: and it was a distinctly white male ideal. Yeah, yep,

1197
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 1: I feel like like groups today like those sort of yeah,

1198
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: just like neo Nazi groups full of you know, sort

1199
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 1: of virgins, Like they probably all get together and watch

1200
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 1: old John Wayne movies and he was like a ha,

1201
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 1: like on ironically some of the love that stuff. It's

1202
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 1: more than just put his face on things, because modern

1203
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:40,719
Speaker 1: action movies are a lot better at keeping your attention.

1204
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:42,720
Speaker 1: And if you were to watch his latest movie, like

1205
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: What's Funny the last movie he does, the Shootest, Like

1206
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 1: the basic plot of The Shootest is there's this old

1207
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 1: gunfighter who's dying of cancer like Wayne was kind of

1208
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:53,200
Speaker 1: at the time, uh, and he wants to engineer a

1209
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 1: last gunfight to kill himself. Um. So he wants to

1210
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 1: set up a situation whereby he can have a last

1211
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 1: gunfight and die um because he otherwise cancer is going

1212
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 1: to get him. And instead he gets shot in the

1213
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 1: back and killed. Um. Which is like a weirdly show

1214
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 1: like suggests a weird amount of self knowledge for John Wayne.

1215
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 1: That like that's how that's the movie. He goes out

1216
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:17,559
Speaker 1: in this movie about uh uh this like manly ARCon

1217
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 1: of like badass nous in his aging years, who's trying

1218
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 1: to get in Like who's trying to set up one

1219
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: last fight so he can die with dignity and get

1220
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 1: shot in the back instead. It's interesting that he the

1221
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 1: last thing he does. Yeah, right, because cancer, you know

1222
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: it just like it's not a great way to go out. No,

1223
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: it's it's a pretty shitty way to go out. Um

1224
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 1: so Yeah. In his declining years, when he filmed again

1225
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 1: some of his best movies, Wayne upped the anti on

1226
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 1: his conservative rhetoric, screeching at cowards who spit in the

1227
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 1: faces of the police and judicial sob sisters. Human Events

1228
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:56,719
Speaker 1: wrote that as a man, he has loathed and demeaned

1229
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 1: by sanctimonious liberals and a whole mess of bug out

1230
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 1: on America hip crits. But Wayne was top shelf with

1231
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 1: freedom fans who thrilled to the big guy's charge. John Wayne.

1232
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 1: Judicial system, What's what is that? A reference to people

1233
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:12,879
Speaker 1: who are angry that the criminal justice system in prisons

1234
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 1: and murders innocent people. Oh, it's just like those pumpkin lilies. Yeah,

1235
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 1: pumkin lilies. That's right, exactly, judicial pumpkin lily. So John

1236
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 1: Wayne dies on June eleventh, nineteen seventy nine, of ask cancer.

1237
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:31,559
Speaker 1: He never lived to see the entirety of the world

1238
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 1: he built come to fruition, But by nineteen seventy nine

1239
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:37,479
Speaker 1: the electoral power of the left had been solidly broken.

1240
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: Not long after his death, Ronald Reagan, his old buddy,

1241
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 1: would be elected president. He would be followed by George H. W. Bush,

1242
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 1: and then the next Liberal president to follow would be

1243
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:50,599
Speaker 1: considerably further right than most Democrats had been in John

1244
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 1: Wayne's day. There are numerous reasons for these shifts, which

1245
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 1: we've discussed in many podcasts, but the seductive, intoxicating vision

1246
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 1: of manhood which stuck in the heads of millions of

1247
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,600
Speaker 1: men who are still alive and voting today, played a

1248
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:07,679
Speaker 1: strong role. As Kristin Cobbs Dumez writes, John Wayne become

1249
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 1: an icon, became an icon of rugged American manhood for

1250
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:14,679
Speaker 1: generations of Conservatives. Pat Buchanan perrotive Wayne in his presidential bid.

1251
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 1: Newt Gingridge called Wayne's Sands of Iwajima the formative movie

1252
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 1: of my life, and Oliver North echoed slogans from that

1253
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 1: film in his nineteen Senate campaign. In time, Wayne would

1254
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:29,559
Speaker 1: also emerge as an icon of Christian masculinity. Evangelicals admired

1255
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 1: and still admire him for his toughness and his swagger.

1256
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 1: He protected the week, and he wouldn't let anything get

1257
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 1: in the way of his pursuit of justice and order.

1258
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 1: Wayne was not an evangelical Christian, despite rumors to this

1259
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:43,720
Speaker 1: effect regularly circulated by evangelicals themselves. He did not live

1260
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:46,479
Speaker 1: a moral life by the standards of traditional Christian virtue.

1261
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:49,640
Speaker 1: Yet for many evangelicals, Wayne would come to symbolize a

1262
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:52,879
Speaker 1: different set of virtues, a nostalgic yearning for a mythical

1263
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:56,519
Speaker 1: Christian America, a return to traditional gender roles, and the

1264
01:11:56,560 --> 01:12:05,680
Speaker 1: reassertion of white patriarchal authority. Yes, so just back on

1265
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 1: the ranch. None of these just sissy jobs, jobs, punkin lily,

1266
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 1: content creators, TikTok dancers, casting pods and their basements can

1267
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:25,760
Speaker 1: weak ship? Where when can we conquer some ship? Let's

1268
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 1: deconquer so we can reconquer the West. That's what I say,

1269
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 1: decolonized to recolonize. Who's with me? America? Recolonized England? I

1270
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 1: just we need Like this is why, um the show

1271
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 1: that I don't watch Westworld, But that's why I like

1272
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 1: that made sense because you're like, you need a simulation

1273
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:56,360
Speaker 1: for men who feel inferior to get their rocks off

1274
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 1: in a safe place. Obviously, then the robots are sent ship.

1275
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 1: That's bad. They don't want them to say, I only

1276
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 1: watched the first season of that, which I did like,

1277
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:07,640
Speaker 1: but I'm not I understand it goes some places apparently,

1278
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:12,480
Speaker 1: you know, it's fine, but yeah, like you need Disneyland

1279
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 1: for adults, yeah, yeah, and that John Wayne is a big,

1280
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 1: a big help. He does a lot of work to

1281
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 1: create this cultural Disneyland that's like mental vacation space we

1282
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 1: have for white men. To imagine that there was a

1283
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:29,640
Speaker 1: time in which if I only been born, then I

1284
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:31,759
Speaker 1: would have been a real big man on the range.

1285
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:35,320
Speaker 1: You know, I would have been carving out a new America,

1286
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 1: and I would have had a woman who loved me

1287
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:39,559
Speaker 1: and didn't have a career of her own, and everything

1288
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:43,560
Speaker 1: would have been perfect. Absolutely, And then but it was

1289
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 1: just a few more years before, like you know, grunge

1290
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 1: came around. It's thank god, Yeah, that did wonders for

1291
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:54,559
Speaker 1: angsty white men. Hell yeah. And then you know, suddenly,

1292
01:13:54,560 --> 01:14:01,600
Speaker 1: well that's not cool anymore now. Masculinity's just it's so

1293
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:06,160
Speaker 1: willie Nilly, and we've got you know, Disney groomers or

1294
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 1: whatever we're doing. Yeah, everything's gotten dumber since um um,

1295
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:16,439
Speaker 1: I yeah, it's I'm fascinating by that because I don't like,

1296
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:19,759
Speaker 1: I don't respond. I'm trying to think of like action

1297
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:22,240
Speaker 1: heroes that like I respond to, like where I get

1298
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:25,000
Speaker 1: like ting, where like spidy, like hell, I want to

1299
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 1: be that. I don't have that, Like, was that Jean

1300
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 1: claud for you? Was it so Stallone? Is it Schwartzenegger?

1301
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 1: Who's the For me? It was? It was Bruce Willis

1302
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:38,679
Speaker 1: and die Hard? Right, that was the movie I saw

1303
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:40,599
Speaker 1: as a kid that was like, well and and actually

1304
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: I'm honestly like much more than that. It was Indiana Jones, right,

1305
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 1: I think for a lot of men in mind, like

1306
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:47,479
Speaker 1: that was the Harrison Ford of his peak that it's

1307
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 1: a leading man right there, totally And he's but he's

1308
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:54,679
Speaker 1: kind of funny, right, He's got a little he's Yeah,

1309
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: he's he's incredibly charming, cheeky. That's what he keeps getting

1310
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 1: jail every time he crashed a plane into a golf course.

1311
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:04,759
Speaker 1: Nobody can get angry. Nobody can stay angry at Harrison Ford.

1312
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:13,520
Speaker 1: No exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Ford makes sense. Um,

1313
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 1: also old, also kind of older. Yeah, for a lot

1314
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 1: of his movies, he's got I mean, you know, he's pretty,

1315
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 1: he's pretty young and swollen them Indiana Jones movies, but

1316
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 1: not the most recent one. He was for the It's

1317
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 1: very funny because if you watch the behind the scenes

1318
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:31,759
Speaker 1: for the second Indiana Jones movie, there's a ton about

1319
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:34,800
Speaker 1: like how intense his workout schedule was to get him

1320
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:37,559
Speaker 1: that jacked. And he's like he's like, he's like, he's

1321
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:39,839
Speaker 1: like the guy you would cast as like a skinny

1322
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 1: office worker in a modern movie. But yeah, we didn't

1323
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,519
Speaker 1: know how to get people jacked back then. We weren't

1324
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:49,200
Speaker 1: as good at it. Modern Jack's technology just didn't exist. No,

1325
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 1: that h g H just wasn't for We didn't know.

1326
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 1: We didn't have as much h H we were gonna have.

1327
01:15:55,880 --> 01:16:00,439
Speaker 1: I wonder what what what were we talking about? John Wayne?

1328
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,880
Speaker 1: And John Wayne would think about that, Bruce Wayne, Oh lord,

1329
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 1: I mean, but you also did have this period because

1330
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:09,400
Speaker 1: like Indiana Jones is kind of like right before you

1331
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:12,599
Speaker 1: start to have this like all of these super jacked

1332
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:16,680
Speaker 1: action stars, that's when like Arnold and Stallone and and

1333
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:20,920
Speaker 1: damn uh and then they all give way to Bruce

1334
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:24,080
Speaker 1: Willis and Die Hard where it's like, now we're going

1335
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 1: to have like the everyman badass, and then nine eleven happens. Uh,

1336
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 1: and right now we have the Soldier bad and now

1337
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:34,320
Speaker 1: and now they're super jacked again. Yeah. Who got people

1338
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:38,679
Speaker 1: through the eighties that was like the Stallone's and the shorts. Yeah,

1339
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 1: but well later okay, okay, yeah, alright, alright, late seventies,

1340
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 1: late seventies, late seventies. You've got your Indiana Jones, and

1341
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:49,680
Speaker 1: you've got Dirty Harry. Right, you've got Clint Eastwood is

1342
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:52,479
Speaker 1: Dirty Harry where he's kind of like a skinny, wiry

1343
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 1: due right, Clint count out. Can't clan out Clint Eastwood. Yeah, No,

1344
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 1: there's plenty of chairs that a stern talking to look.

1345
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:09,120
Speaker 1: Masculinity is complex, is it? No? Not not really, not honestly,

1346
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:12,040
Speaker 1: not not very much at all. That's why it's so

1347
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 1: easy for Hollywood to market too. Now, Robert, when you

1348
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:17,920
Speaker 1: watch like John Wayne movies, or is there part of

1349
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:21,000
Speaker 1: you that's like I get it, you know, You're like

1350
01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 1: I could see how this would be appealing. I think

1351
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 1: some of his movies are really good, Um, like fucking

1352
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:29,639
Speaker 1: True Grits. A solid, solid film in a lot of ways.

1353
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:33,879
Speaker 1: I do. I do really like actually Um the remake

1354
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:37,679
Speaker 1: with Um the dude in it. But you know, yeah,

1355
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 1: like as a kid, I watched a bunch of John

1356
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 1: Wayne movies, like they're they're really well shot. I I've

1357
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 1: always preferred more about the old Westerns. The way they're shot,

1358
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 1: the way the music is directed, kind of like the

1359
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:52,439
Speaker 1: sense of rather than any of the specific dialogue or characters,

1360
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:55,479
Speaker 1: is like the kind of tone that they have. Yeah,

1361
01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:58,639
Speaker 1: there's there's vibes that are very appealing in those movies,

1362
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:00,760
Speaker 1: in part because just a lot of really talented people

1363
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 1: were making some very beautifully shot Western's beautifully shot propaganda.

1364
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:10,400
Speaker 1: But hey, but still share all artists propagandas or we

1365
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:14,599
Speaker 1: would would tell us, did he have fifty pounds of

1366
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:20,639
Speaker 1: meat in his intestine upon death? I don't know, Probably

1367
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:22,880
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think there's any evidence of that.

1368
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:30,120
Speaker 1: But god damn, maybe you know maybe that let the

1369
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:33,799
Speaker 1: meat and zoom the body, but let the meat stuck

1370
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:37,720
Speaker 1: in John Wayne's corpse be the Santa clause of your

1371
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:43,000
Speaker 1: beliefs about karma. I don't really know what the message

1372
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:44,400
Speaker 1: would be if there is a lot of me. Be

1373
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:47,679
Speaker 1: the Gerbil in Richard Gear's asshole. Yeah, be the Gerbil

1374
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:50,000
Speaker 1: and Richard Gear's asshole. That's all. I think that's a

1375
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 1: good line to end on. Everyone. Go out there, be

1376
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 1: the Gerbil you want to see in Richard Gear's asshole.

1377
01:18:56,280 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 1: You know. God, that's an that's an that's an old

1378
01:19:01,479 --> 01:19:04,759
Speaker 1: Hollywood rumor, like a four people are going to remember

1379
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 1: that such an old rumor. I think the lesson is

1380
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:14,479
Speaker 1: what is the You don't need um to subjugate people

1381
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:19,960
Speaker 1: of color or Japanese or Native Americans. Um. In order

1382
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:25,320
Speaker 1: to feel masculine and strong and powerful. Um, you might

1383
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:29,599
Speaker 1: need to serve your country. That might help. I don't

1384
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:32,080
Speaker 1: know if it's the one war where that's a good idea,

1385
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:36,200
Speaker 1: if it's the one war where it's good yeah, and

1386
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:38,720
Speaker 1: uh and and yeah. And also like I feel like

1387
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:41,599
Speaker 1: this all ended in Brokeback Mountain, Like Brokeback Mountain really

1388
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:43,519
Speaker 1: just that was it. It was like, oh, yeah, we

1389
01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 1: can't be stoic anymore because because Ennis, I don't know,

1390
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:50,920
Speaker 1: I think that's very stoic. That's a stoic gas movie.

1391
01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:53,960
Speaker 1: It is a stoic aas movie. But I'm saying like,

1392
01:19:53,960 --> 01:19:56,880
Speaker 1: like the the sort of the idea that you're like

1393
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:00,000
Speaker 1: that bottled up emotionally, you're like, man, I think maybe

1394
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:03,599
Speaker 1: you know, maybe maybe there's more going on here, Maybe

1395
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:07,240
Speaker 1: you're not fishing by the rivernity can be. This is

1396
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 1: why I'm so excited about Pedro Pascal as a as

1397
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: a male lead. A lot of exciting new visions of

1398
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:16,200
Speaker 1: manhood that Pedro Pascal is it is neat. I think

1399
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 1: actually there is something to be said about the fact

1400
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 1: that and you can say this probably maybe does start

1401
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:23,720
Speaker 1: with some of James Cameron's early stuff where you're you're

1402
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:26,840
Speaker 1: kind of idolizing a slightly more nurturing attitude towards a

1403
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:28,880
Speaker 1: male action star. I think that's one of the things

1404
01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:31,559
Speaker 1: that's interesting about The Mandalorian, which has been a big hit,

1405
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:34,120
Speaker 1: is there is like that is a big emphasis. You've

1406
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:37,240
Speaker 1: got this like badass gun slinger, but who's also defined

1407
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:40,519
Speaker 1: in large part due to his like desire to nurture

1408
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:43,559
Speaker 1: a child um which is not a negative not a

1409
01:20:43,640 --> 01:20:49,080
Speaker 1: negative change. And and yeah, there's an emotional journey and

1410
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:51,880
Speaker 1: that is a space Western. So right, that's pretty fun space.

1411
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 1: I enjoy that series quite a lot. I guess when

1412
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:56,880
Speaker 1: I when I really think John Wayne's legacy died is

1413
01:20:56,920 --> 01:21:01,960
Speaker 1: probably Little nos X, old town Road, m assless chaps,

1414
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:07,360
Speaker 1: openly gay, proud as hell, and crushing it. Hell yeah,

1415
01:21:07,640 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 1: well yeah, so until next time, dig up the corpse

1416
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 1: of John Wayne and mail his bones to Little nos X.

1417
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:20,880
Speaker 1: That's I love this. This is a good project. And

1418
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:24,360
Speaker 1: I again Little nos X loves a trigger the right,

1419
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:26,720
Speaker 1: so I bet he will remake one of these films

1420
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:30,679
Speaker 1: dressed in the bones of John Wayne, wearing his rib

1421
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:36,639
Speaker 1: cage like a corset fante. So you have any plugs

1422
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 1: for us at the end here after that, it's amazing. Um,

1423
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:42,920
Speaker 1: oh my god. Everyone check out the Bituation Room podcast.

1424
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:47,480
Speaker 1: It's a weekly podcast with comedians and myself and activist experts.

1425
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:54,519
Speaker 1: It's a good time. And yeah listen, yeah, all right again,

1426
01:21:54,960 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 1: go defile the grave of John Wayne. Where is that grave? Oh,

1427
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 1: that's a great question. Where is John Wayne's I want

1428
01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:13,040
Speaker 1: the address Pacific View Memorial Park in Newport Beach. Ah,

1429
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:17,880
Speaker 1: that's on brand? Are you about to say? Of course

1430
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:23,320
Speaker 1: it's Newport. It's definitely Newport Beach. Well, yeah, a little

1431
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:27,160
Speaker 1: slice of red over in this southern California blue I guess.

1432
01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:31,880
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Yeah, I'm sure we are not the

1433
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:37,000
Speaker 1: only ones to have located where he is buried us

1434
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:39,360
Speaker 1: in order to steal his bones and give them to

1435
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:42,559
Speaker 1: little Nozax so he can turn them into a corset. Yes,

1436
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:50,920
Speaker 1: I like that he's dead. Yeah, um, good riddens. May

1437
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:54,840
Speaker 1: we never have someone who plagues the American consciousness so

1438
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:58,600
Speaker 1: horribly um, to the point where we're still we're just

1439
01:22:58,680 --> 01:23:03,840
Speaker 1: waiting for the John Wayne generations to die off. Thank God, well,

1440
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:10,880
Speaker 1: thank you. This is great. H m hmm.