1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: You have five minutes. 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 2: It's late nineteen sixty four in the bush outside Lusaka, Zambia, 3 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 2: in southern Africa. The air is hot, the tension thick. 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: A small crowd gathers into clearing, their eyes fixed on 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: one man. A man who frankly looks like he just 6 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 2: leaped out of a comic book. Silky red and green pants, 7 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,959 Speaker 2: a military helmet, and a cape, yes, a cape, billowing 8 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 2: in the wind behind him. His name is Edward in Colosso, 9 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: and he is here to launch Zambia into the space Age. 10 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: Edward and Colosso is orchestrating a plan to send African 11 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: astronauts into space. 12 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: That's doctor Lucy Gasser, who teaches cultural studies at the 13 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: University of Osbrook in Germany. 14 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: And his plan is to give the Soviets and the 15 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: Americans a run for their money in the Cold War 16 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: space face. 17 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: Just months earlier, in Coloso helped Zambia win independence after 18 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: decades of British rule. Now he's crowned himself Minister of 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 2: Space and he's hungry to put the new country on 20 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:23,479 Speaker 2: a different kind of map. 21 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: He wants to launch Zambia onto the world stage. As 22 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: he launches rockets not just to the Moon, but then 23 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,199 Speaker 1: also to Mars T minus two. 24 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 2: Minutes in Coloso hand picks twelve young men and women 25 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 2: to become Zambia's first astronauts in Coloso paces inspecting his 26 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: new recruits today, they're attempting a test launch. There's no 27 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: time to waste. He's made bold claims that Zambia will 28 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 2: land a man on the moon next year. 29 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: And Colostal positions the Zambian space program as a contender 30 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: in the cold Wolf space race, and so not as 31 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: some sort of hobbled late comer, but to be ahead 32 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: of the other two on a number of friends, and 33 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: he anticipates a future in which independent family is like 34 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: at the global forefront. 35 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: The other two being the Soviet Union and the United States. 36 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 2: When a reporter later asked in Koloso how he planned 37 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: to beat them to the moon, the space minister didn't hesitate. 38 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 3: Perhaps the Americans would like to join me in my 39 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 3: space programs. I'd be most happy, But let's get one 40 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 3: thing straight. I step on the moon and hoist the 41 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 3: Zambian flag first. 42 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: Do you minus one minute? In Coloso motions to one 43 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 2: of his astronauts, twenty one year old Godfrey Munwano steps forward. 44 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 2: In Coloso, plops a combat helmet onto the young man's 45 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 2: head and stuffs him into a forty gallon oil drum. 46 00:02:55,400 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: The launch site goes quietine in Koloso tilts the barrel 47 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: onto its side, takes a deep breath one and shoves 48 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: the barrel. The drum lurches downhill, faster and faster. A 49 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 2: dizzy Godfrey starts slipping out until it smacks into a 50 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: gum tree in Kloso frowns. He turns to a journalist 51 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: beside him. 52 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 3: Well, for one thing, we are going to have to 53 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 3: get a bigger barrel. 54 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: Welcome to very special episodes and iHeart original podcast. I'm 55 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: your host, Zarn Burnett and this is the Zambian Space Program. 56 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 4: Welcome back to very special episodes. So glad you could 57 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 4: join us. If you're new here. Name is Jason English. 58 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 4: I'm joined by Danias Schwartz and Saren Burnett Y. Each 59 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 4: week we tell one crazy story and this week gets 60 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 4: a deep dive into the Zambian Space Program. 61 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 5: This is where I get to bring up. 62 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 4: I did, in fact work when I was in high 63 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 4: school at the Adler Planetarium in Chicago, so I'm really 64 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 4: something of a space expert. Yes, I love when we 65 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 4: get to tap into your Adler Planetarium knowledge. Yeah, they 66 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 4: should have an exhibit here on the Zambian space program. 67 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 2: They really should. 68 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 5: I agree. 69 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 4: I really enjoyed the high level pre internet trolling that's 70 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 4: going on throughout this story. 71 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 2: And I love that they want to enter into like 72 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 2: a space race between the US and the USSR. 73 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 4: They're like and Zambia, And I like how mad everybody 74 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 4: seems to be getting at them at every phase. You're like, 75 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 4: if someone is trying to get a reaction, like, don't 76 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 4: let them. But they succeeded wildly here. It makes me laugh. 77 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 2: It's so funny. Just a few weeks after Zambia gained 78 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 2: independence in nineteen sixty four, Edward and Coloso founded what 79 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: he called National Academy of Science, Space Research, and Philosophy. 80 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: His mission plant Zambia's flag on the Moon. It was ambitious, 81 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 2: no training, no funding, no and I mean zero experience 82 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: in aerospace anything, and no government funding either. Just in 83 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: Colosso a cape and a vision. 84 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 5: He trained on his students and by rolling them down 85 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 5: hills inside the drum. 86 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 2: That's doctor Kathleen Lewis. 87 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 5: I'm curator of International space programs and space suits at 88 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 5: the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC. 89 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 2: Doctor Lewis knows a thing or two about spaceflight. And 90 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: in case you thought pushing an astronaut downhill was a 91 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: one time stunt, oh no, it was the training program. 92 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: It was, doctor Lewis admits, unorthodox, but also it kind 93 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 2: of makes sense, which was. 94 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 5: Not completely far off from you know, sitting in a centerfuge, 95 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 5: seeing the fact, disorienting, confusing and testing people. 96 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: In Koloso's training methods had to be thrifty, so he 97 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 2: stuffed his space cadets into more barrels and dunked them 98 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 2: in rivers, made them walk on their hands and swing 99 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 2: from high ropes, then cut them loose from the rope. Sometimes, 100 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 2: Encoloso would drive his astronauts to a town far outside Lusaka. 101 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 3: There is a mining shaft up there, four hundred feet deep, 102 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 3: filled with water. We will throw them in. 103 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 2: Strange as it looked, there was a method to the madness. 104 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 2: The river dunk simulated splashdowns the rope, cutting a crash 105 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,559 Speaker 2: course in free fall and hurling cadets into a four 106 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: hundred foot shaft a test of their nerve m Kloso 107 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 2: was convinced if Americans and the Soviets could shoot for 108 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: the Moon, Zambia could too. 109 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 3: Some people think I'm crazy, but I'll be laughing the 110 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 3: day I planted Zambia's flag on the Moon. 111 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: For launch vehicles, he built crude ten foot barrels shaped 112 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 2: like capsules. Rocket propulsion was out of reach, so he 113 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: made a catapult. One launch made it six feet off 114 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 2: the ground. Then came another idea dynamite. What he lacked 115 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 2: in resources he made up in imagination. He was undeterred. 116 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: His sites were set on the Moon. In nineteen sixty four, 117 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 2: he wrote an article with an unforgettable title. 118 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: It is cold, We're going to Mars, but the space 119 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: girl to catm the missionary. 120 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,679 Speaker 2: The promise of a space girl in particular captured people's attention. 121 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,119 Speaker 1: He draws out Matame Lambas as his stock after notch, 122 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: and she is the title's space girl who is supposed 123 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: to be launched to Mars. 124 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: At the time, Mata and Wombo was just a teenager, 125 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 2: but Enkoloso was determined to make her the second woman 126 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 2: to visit space, the first being Soviet cosmonaut and amateur 127 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: skydiver Valentina Terrishkova. Why Mata and Wombo. She had zero qualifications, 128 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: but she did have cats. 129 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 3: They are to provide her with companionship on the long journey. 130 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 3: When she arrives on Mars, she will open the door 131 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 3: of the rocket and drop the cats on the ground. 132 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 3: If they survive, she will then see that Mars is 133 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 3: fit for human habitation. 134 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 2: Enkoloso and Mata, we'd try to train about a dozen cats. 135 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: The Russians had already sent up dogs. The Americans launched apes. 136 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 2: Cats were not a completely wacky idea, right if you. 137 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 5: Look at it. You know, cats have that natural ability 138 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 5: to right themselves when they're in free fall, so, you know, 139 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 5: might make a whole lot more sense than then using 140 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 5: dogs and monkeys. 141 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 2: Still the barrels, the ropes, the handstands, the space cats. 142 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 2: Western journalists descended on Lusaka ground Zero for the Zambient 143 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 2: space program. Most treated it, especially in Colosso, as a joke. 144 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 5: It's one of those stories that has sort of been 145 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 5: simmering per decades. Sadly, it comes up usually as a punchline. 146 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: By and large in the West, the tone is one 147 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: of disbelief and ridicule. They make fun of it. 148 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 2: Some writers giggled, some condescended, and others were straight up racist. 149 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 2: Like A. K. Chesterton, author of the nineteen sixty five 150 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 2: book The New Unhappy Lords. 151 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: I can't recommend it. It's wildly racists and anti Semitic, 152 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: but it is a historical document I supposed, and in 153 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: it Chesterton uses the Zambian space program and as proof 154 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,599 Speaker 1: of the absurdity of the idea that Africans should be 155 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: ready for self rule. 156 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 2: In Coloso was unfazed. He reveled in the attention, but 157 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 2: not everybody in Zambia was laughing, and Coloso was up 158 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 2: to something else, something that western reporters might miss. 159 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: The question that emerged from me was who's calling the 160 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: stocks here, Who's who's dancing to, who's cheering, who's performing 161 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: for whom? And who who's making fun of him? 162 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 2: Perhaps he was playing them all. To really understand Edward 163 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: and Coloso with his capes and barrels and bravado, you 164 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 2: have to rewind to a time before Zambia existed. Okay, 165 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 2: you are in the early nineteen forties. The country was 166 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 2: Northern Rhodesia, a British protectorate. Back then, Edward and Koloso 167 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 2: was a twenty something. He dreamed of becoming a preacher, 168 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: or maybe a science teacher. But thousands of miles north 169 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 2: Europe was in flames. 170 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: So what do we know about Colosso he served in 171 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: the Second World War. 172 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 2: So he joined the British military, one of fifteen thousand 173 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 2: Zambians who fought for the Allies. His assignment the Signal Corps. 174 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 2: It was technical, disciplined, precise. When the war ended, he 175 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 2: came home to Northern Rhodesia a sense of pride. He'd 176 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 2: served the Empire and now he wanted to serve his people. 177 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 2: He spent the following years championing the rights of Zambian veterans, 178 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 2: but the system wasn't built for him. While white soldiers 179 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 2: received loans to start businesses, scholarships to improve job skills, 180 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 2: black vets got rejection letters. We are entirely forgotten in 181 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: Coloso said so. In nineteen fifty six, in Coloso, now 182 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 2: leader of a large veterans organization, petitioned the Colonne government. 183 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 2: Their response crickets. The silence hardened him. It all came 184 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: to a head in the mid nineteen fifties when white 185 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 2: politicians dug up and moved a cemetery to make room 186 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: for settlers. In Koloso snapped. He stormed into the district 187 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 2: Commissioner's office, fists slamming the desk, shouting that the dead 188 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 2: were sacred. The bureaucrats threatened to kick him out of town. 189 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 2: Enkoloso never forgot the insult. Years later, he staged a 190 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 2: stunt at Lusaka's Ridgeway Hotel, a white's only establishment. He 191 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 2: walked into the hotel restaurant carrying the bloody corpse of 192 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: a white woman and dumped it onto the floor, declaring. 193 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 3: White men, your time is limited. We have killed the 194 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 3: wife of Wolenski. 195 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: Wolenski was the prime minister at the time. 196 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 3: We shall soon pounce on you. 197 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 2: Koloso was lying about the body. It wasn't the prime 198 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 2: minister's wife. He'd borrowed the corpse from a crooked mortician 199 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: and smeared it with goat blood. But the white men 200 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: in the hotel bar didn't know that. They scurried away. 201 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: The room, now empty, in Coloso sat down and started 202 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 2: drinking their leftover beer. His message was unmistakable. In Coloso, 203 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 2: the patriot, the ex soldier was done fighting for the 204 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: British empire. Now he was fighting to overthrow it. 205 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 1: And he was also an active member of the Dambian 206 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: anticoloidinal resistance movements, which got him arrested and imprisoned. In 207 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: like the mid late fifties. 208 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 2: I think in Coloso became a militant freedom fighter. Accounts 209 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 2: follow his rise to the top of the country's revolutionary hierarchy. 210 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 2: He was called Colonel. He encouraged his fellow citizens to 211 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 2: practice civil disobedience, stopped buying British imports, their food, their chicken. 212 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 2: He encouraged them to stop using knives and forks. It 213 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 2: was time, he said, to throw off the shackles of 214 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 2: the colonizer and embrace their native culture and identity. But 215 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 2: in the speech, one witness remembers he was not opposed 216 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 2: to violence. 217 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 6: He called on all sections, especially the women and the youth, 218 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 6: to fight and if necessary, die for liberation. Many more 219 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 6: would die yet before freedom was achieved. These deaths must 220 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 6: be regarded as bridges towards our goal. 221 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 2: By nineteen sixty four, the fight was one. The new 222 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 2: Republic of Zambia declared its independence, and one of his 223 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: closest allies, Kenneth Cawunda, became its first President. That relationship 224 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: thrust in Coloso into a position of power and influence. 225 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: He wasn't just a radical outsider anymore. He had the 226 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: ear of the President, and that's when he started dreaming 227 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 2: of space. The Space Race is often described as a 228 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 2: proxy war between two world superpowers, rockets as weapons, astronauts 229 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 2: as soldiers in a battle to prove who had the 230 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: stronger military, But it was also a giant marketing campaign. 231 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 5: That was also a competition to demonstrate to newly liberated 232 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 5: nations that you know, which was the best course. Were 233 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 5: you going to take up capitalism or were you going 234 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 5: to follow a communist's ideal. 235 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 2: By the mid nineteen sixties, dozens of countries had gained 236 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 2: or were fighting for their independence, and many faced a choice. 237 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 2: Aligned with Moscow or Washington. Dominance in the space race 238 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 2: could tip the scales. 239 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 5: And that is what the argument that was being presented 240 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 5: by both sides to these newly liberated states in Africa 241 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 5: and Asia and nine alone states. 242 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 2: Both sides built ground stations cross Africa, Nigeria, Madagascar, tracking signals, 243 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 2: transmitting telemetry, and Coloso saw it for what it was, 244 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 2: colonization in disguise with rockets. 245 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 5: In Coloso, who's a very astute, sophisticated observer of world politics, 246 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 5: is claiming that this is part of our future too. 247 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 5: This is not just a great powers future. 248 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: There's some kind of undeniable energy to Zambia's taking a 249 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: claim in the space rates at this moment, particularly because 250 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: it does coincide with its moment of claiming its independence 251 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: from colonial rule. 252 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 3: Let us make a Zambian rocket today. We shall never 253 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 3: remain behind other races. This is our heavenly destiny, our 254 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 3: natural ambition, and our scientific and cultural hegemony. 255 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: Proud, defiant and convinced, Zambia deserved a place among the 256 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 2: stars as an independent nation, and he wanted to stay 257 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 2: that way. There was one problem. Both the Soviets and 258 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 2: the Americans had poached hundreds of German rocket scientists. They 259 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 2: had billions of dollars, vast industrial bases and brains like 260 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 2: Werner von Braun. In Coloso, he had a few science books, 261 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: a barrel, and a catapult. He tried scraping together money. 262 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 2: He asked the United Nations for a nineteen million dollar loan. 263 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 2: He solicited the US embassy too, no reply from either. 264 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 3: I know that those imperialist neocolonialists are delaying the loan 265 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 3: as long as they can because they are scared of 266 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 3: Zambia's space knowledge. 267 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 2: Western newspapers picked up the story. Donations trickled in a 268 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: few dollars here, a telescope from NASA Jet Propulsion Lab there, 269 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 2: but mostly in Coloso got lots of fan mail. He 270 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 2: joked that he had amassed the finest stamp collection on 271 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 2: all of Africa, but even rare stamps wouldn't get him 272 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 2: into space. So what he lacked in funding he made 273 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 2: up for in imagination. The barrels, the dynamite, the space cats, queue, 274 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: the ridicule and eye rolls. And then came the comic book. 275 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 3: I get a lot of ideas from this, so have 276 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 3: many American and Russian scientists. 277 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 2: Reporters roared, but in Colosso was onto something. Early rocket 278 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 2: pioneers were inspired by pulps science fiction, first Jules Verne, 279 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 2: then the Buck Rogers comic strip featuring a futuristic ray 280 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 2: gun toting adventure hero. 281 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 5: You have Buck Rogers cited frequently when you talked to 282 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 5: those early pollioneers of Rocket Tree. 283 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 2: Even Robert Goddard, who successfully invented the first liquid fueled rocket, 284 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 2: had been ridiculed, he took it as inspiration. 285 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 5: Goddard was ridiculed in The New York Times over his ideas, 286 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 5: you know that you could possibly send something, or you 287 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 5: could send blasting caps to the moon with a rocket. 288 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 5: They later apologized for having lambasted him for what they 289 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 5: referred to as a moon hoax. 290 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 2: So if Encoloso looked like a fool, he stood in 291 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 2: good company. But maybe he wasn't a fool at all, 292 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 2: because when the world laughed, Koloso may have been training 293 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 2: his cadets for something else entirely, not a moonshot, but 294 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 2: a kind of misdirection, a cover, a play unfolding just 295 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 2: out of sight. 296 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: What in Coloso is actually doing in training his cadets 297 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: was training them in an anti colonial revolutionary activity, including like 298 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: how to make and use explosives. 299 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 2: In other words, the Zambian space program may never have 300 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 2: been about the stars. It may have been affront for 301 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 2: something far more earthly and far more dangerous. By nineteen 302 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 2: sixty five, Zambia's space program began to s but Mata Mumbu, 303 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 2: the space girl with the twelve Cats, was nearing the 304 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: end of training. She completed more than fifty barrel rolls 305 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 2: down a hill until pregnancy forced her into retirement. Progress slowed, 306 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 2: and Koloso claimed one of his rockets was quote sabotaged 307 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 2: by the foreign elements. More astronauts hit the exits. 308 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 3: Two of my best men went on a drinking spree 309 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 3: a month ago and haven't been seen since. Another of 310 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 3: my astronauts has joined a local tribal song and dance group. 311 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 2: One cadet reinvented himself as a pole acrobat. Another had 312 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: told her reporter. 313 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 6: We aw a dynamic music group when we owned space cadets. 314 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 2: So much for the Astronaut Corps. It was starting to 315 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 2: look less like NASA and more like spinal Tap. Once again, 316 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 2: mockery rained down. But here's the thing. Maybe the haters 317 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 2: were missing the point. A few years ago, the writer 318 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 2: and novelist None Spel interviewed Zambia's first president and Encoloso's 319 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 2: close friend, Kenneth Gowanda. 320 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: And he said, up it was. It was all a 321 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: bit of fun, right, He said, it wasn't serious. 322 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 2: A lark, a prank, a bit of theater. Gowanda said, 323 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 2: it's likely that Encoloso knew he couldn't beat the US 324 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 2: or Soviets. To the moon. But he could mock them, 325 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 2: steal their spotlight. He could pull focus and get the 326 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: world talking about Zambia. 327 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 5: It was also very scathing commentary on his present time. 328 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 5: He was satirizing and ridiculing the vast expense to both 329 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 5: the United States and the USSR were paying out to 330 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 5: compete in space programs. 331 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 2: At the time, Americans and Soviets were pooring obscene sums 332 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 2: of money into space exploration. Some of that money even 333 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 2: helped build listening stations in Africa, infrastructure meant to serve 334 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 2: Washington and Moscow, not Lusaka. 335 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 5: You have the Americans placing line bases to track their 336 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 5: spacecraft and using the African continent for their own political gains. 337 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 5: If you have colonizers sending money into space and using 338 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 5: African countries as political pawns in their activities, and. 339 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 2: Colossa wanted to stick it to them to make them 340 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 2: look ridiculous. And he wasn't alone. When Neil Armstrong made 341 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 2: his one Small step onto the Moon in nineteen sixty nine, 342 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 2: jazz poet and musician Gil Scott Heron cut through the 343 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 2: ticker tape parades with a stinging spoken word poem called 344 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 2: whitey On the moon. 345 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 7: I can't pay no doctor bills, but White he's on 346 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 7: the moon. Ten years from now, I'll be paying still 347 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 7: while White he's on the moon. You know, the man 348 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 7: jumps up my red last night because White is on 349 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 7: the moon. No hot to, no tallet, no lights. 350 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 2: But why he's on the moon. He wasn't the only 351 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 2: person to ask if there weren't bigger priorities in the 352 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 2: good old US. 353 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: Of a the amount of money that is spent on 354 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: the Space project when so many African Americans were confronting 355 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: struggles such radical inequality. It just seemed by spending money 356 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: on this was insulting. It just seems to like, really 357 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 1: crystallized perfectly when you look at these things next to 358 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: each other. 359 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 2: And in that light, a guy wearing a satin cape 360 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 2: rolling teenagers down hills and barrels starts to feel less 361 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 2: like a joke and more like a mirror. In twenty seventeen, 362 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 2: non Wally Serpel wrote an article in The New Yorker 363 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 2: asking why were Western writers so oblivious to in Coloso's satire. 364 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 2: After all, Incloso's cocked eyebrows seemed pretty obvious. Take that 365 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: article he wrote about colonizing Mars. In it, he vows 366 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 2: not to repeat the whole missionary thing to the Martians. 367 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: His plan suggests like that the Zambian astronauts might take 368 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: on the role of the colonizing force in miles, but 369 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: that they would essentially do a better job of it, 370 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: a less violent job of it. Since European colonizes very 371 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: much did force Christianity unto colonized peoples, I at least 372 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: find it really difficult to read this part of the 373 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: article not in the key of irony. Right. 374 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 2: So, while Americans were making in Goloso the butt of 375 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: the joke, his barbs at the quote colonizers of space 376 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 2: went completely over their heads. But here's where things take 377 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 2: an even sharper turn. There's another theory that suggests that 378 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 2: the Zambian space program was more than just an elaborate prank. 379 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 2: It was a cover. It's nineteen sixty six, a few 380 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 2: miles outside Lusaka. Sits a complex of drab concrete buildings, small, 381 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 2: unassuming a steel fence hugging the perimeter, but the banalapar 382 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 2: appearance belies what's going on inside. This is the African 383 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 2: Liberation Center. Inside Gorilla fighters from Angola Mozambique and Rhodesia 384 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 2: plot to overthrow their white colonial governments. One Western paper 385 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 2: calls it quote the advanced command post of African nationalist violence. 386 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 2: Another claims that this is where revolutionaries are making plans 387 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 2: to invade nearby Rhodesia what is now called Zimbabwe. The 388 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 2: guy at the center of it all, behind a door 389 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 2: with the word secret stamped in bold letters, is Edward 390 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 2: and Coloso. His official title here is quote his Excellency's 391 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 2: personal representative to foreign nationalist parties, which is a polite 392 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 2: way of saying he was Zambia's fixer, the man tasked 393 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 2: with wrangling nine rival gorilla groups under one roof and 394 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 2: keeping them all focused on the prize overthrowing colonial rule. 395 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 2: According to some, the quote cadet training ridiculed in the 396 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 2: press wasn't about space at all. 397 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: What Encloso is actually doing in training his cadets was 398 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: training them an anti colonial revolutionary activity, including like how 399 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: to make and use explosives. 400 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 2: That's the picture painted in nam Wali Surpel's novel The 401 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 2: Old Drift, and echoed by some of those closest to Encoloso. 402 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 2: In the end, the reporters who busily mocked Encoloso's aspirations 403 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 2: in space might have been missing the real story. So 404 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: what was the Zambian space program really? A satire, a 405 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 2: secret training camp, one big headfake? The truth is slippery 406 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 2: even today, scholars disagree. Surpel interviewed dozens of people close 407 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 2: to Encoloso and found nothing conclusive. Lucy Gasser has studied 408 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 2: a few of these tellings and she isn't sure either. 409 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 1: The short answers, I really don't know. I'm adri cultural 410 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: studied Skala. I'm interested in the way the story has 411 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,199 Speaker 1: been told. I think what's interesting about that is that 412 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: it is not result, that it is so ambivalent. 413 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 2: And maybe that's the point. Maybe Inkoloso intended to keep 414 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 2: us guessing, to play both fool and profit. But here's 415 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 2: what we do know. Edward and Coloso wanted Zambia and 416 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 2: Africa as a whole to flourish. Edward and Coloso died 417 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty nine, but in some ways he got 418 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 2: his wish. In April of twenty twenty five, leaders from 419 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 2: across Africa met in Cairo to celebrate the opening of 420 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 2: the African Space Agency. 421 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 5: To serve the African continent's interests. Looking at Earth resources, 422 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 5: looking at communications satellites, things that will enrich them in 423 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 5: ways that they were overlooked when when the elephants were 424 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 5: dancing and you know, the grass was being trampled. 425 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 2: For decades, African nations have depended on other countries for 426 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,959 Speaker 2: space technology, to monitor crops, for disaster relief and communication satellites. 427 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 2: But the new Space Agency changes all of that. 428 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 5: It really is to focus on African needs, the continental needs, 429 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 5: without relying on global politics. 430 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 2: Africa is becoming an independent spacefaring continent, exactly what Edward 431 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 2: and Goloso had dreamed. Recently, Zambia built its first ground 432 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 2: receiving station. Its first launch is on the horizon, but 433 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 2: instead of catapults and barrels, it'll be fiber optics and 434 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 2: weather sensors. Instead of dynamite, it'll be data. Doctor Kathleen 435 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 2: Lewis at the Smithsonian has one final wish. 436 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 8: I really hope that somewhere in a warehouse they have 437 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 8: that barrel, you know, if somebody will come upon it 438 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 8: and we'll put it in a museum, because I think 439 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 8: that would be wonderful if they could get it up. 440 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 5: To Cairo and put it at the headquarters, you know, 441 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 5: this is our beginning. That would be wonderful thing. 442 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 2: Barrel, a cape, a dream, and a girl with twelve cats. 443 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 2: Mata and Wumble never made it to Mars, but Africa 444 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 2: made it to space. And Edward and Coloso, whether you 445 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 2: see him as a charlatan, a satirist, or a visionary, 446 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 2: got the conversation rolling. 447 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 4: All right, very special character here. This is another one 448 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 4: where there's one obvious choice, but a few really good 449 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 4: supporting choices here. I mean, a cat can a cat 450 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 4: can win. 451 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, we make the rules, especially if it's a space cat. 452 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 2: I mean, come on, that's up there, a space monkey 453 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 2: space cat. 454 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 4: DA's a Pixar movie right there. Yeah, that one of 455 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 4: the names in here. We're going to Mars with a 456 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 4: space girl, two cats and a missionary. Like that's like 457 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 4: snakes on a movie title. I think that could fill 458 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 4: up the poster. 459 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 2: I wrote that down just because I want to imitate 460 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 2: it in the future for a title. It's so good, 461 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 2: it's poetry. 462 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 4: Speaking of cinema, did you happen to cast this one? 463 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 2: I did. I had a little bit of fun with 464 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 2: this one. So for Edward and Coloso, I went with 465 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 2: either John David Washington or else, rather new actor yah 466 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 2: Ya abdulah Mateen the second. He's right now playing wonder Man. 467 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 2: I thought he would be good as the Minister of Space. 468 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 2: And then from Mata Mumba, I thought Letitia Wright from 469 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 2: Black Panther two. I thought she's just a fantastic although 470 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 2: I haven't seen Black Panther two because my wife saw 471 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 2: it without me and I just have never gone back, 472 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 2: so I can lord it over her. And I also 473 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 2: like Kennett Kowanda, the first president of Zambia. I liked 474 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 2: John Boyega for him. I thought that he could have 475 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 2: like the gravitas and yet also the youth as well, 476 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 2: So that that's pretty much where I left it off. 477 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 2: Did you guys have a favorite moment in this? 478 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 4: I like the flash forward at the very end to 479 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 4: twenty twenty five where we've been treating this all very satirical, 480 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 4: look all this, but it turns out they are going 481 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 4: to get their big space launch. Maybe they do get 482 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 4: to put a flag on the Moon. I don't know 483 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 4: about Mars. 484 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 2: But yeah, but the moon, you know, that's where Elon 485 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 2: Musk is now going to. So no one really is 486 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 2: going to Mars anymore. I guess Mars is out. 487 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 5: Mars is out. 488 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 2: Moon's back, Yeah, moons back. 489 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 3: People. 490 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: Personally, I love the idea that there are space programs 491 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 2: planning or you know, the training for their cosmonaut astronaut 492 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 2: people is that they are going to go go. Do 493 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 2: we have a barrel? Do we have a rope? We 494 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,959 Speaker 2: have a space program, We need a slightly bigger barrel. 495 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 4: But other than that, Very Special Episodes is made by 496 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 4: some very special people. Today's episode was produced in partnership 497 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 4: with School of Humans. This show is hosted by Zaren Burnett, 498 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 4: Danish Schwartz, and Jason English. Our senior producer is Josh Fisher. 499 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 4: Today's episode was written by Lucas Riley. Our story editor 500 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 4: is Virginia Prescott from School of Humans. Producers are Amelia 501 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 4: Brock and Eily's Paris. Editing and sound design by Jesse Nice, 502 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 4: Mixing and mastering by Josh Fisher. Research and fact checking 503 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 4: by Austin Thompson and Lucas Riley. Original music by Alis McCoy, 504 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 4: Show logo by Lucy Quintonia. Thank you to Anthony West 505 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 4: for his excellent voiceover work. Social clips by Yarberry Media. 506 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 4: Executive producers of today's episode are Virginia Prescott and Jason English. 507 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 4: If you ever want to email the show, you can 508 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 4: reach us at Very Special Episodes at gmail dot com. 509 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 4: Be nice to give us a rating and review over 510 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 4: on Apple or Spotify. We will see you back here 511 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 4: next Wednesday. Very Special Episodes is a production of iHeart Podcasts.