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Speaker 2: So, as Saga and I debated extensively yesterday, Trump invoked

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Speaker 2: the Alien Enemies Act over the weekend. In this set

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Speaker 2: off a mad scramble and a lot of questions about

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Speaker 2: whether or not.

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Speaker 3: They openly defied cored orders.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to give you some details about the

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Speaker 2: timing that is coming out now with regard to when

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Speaker 2: a judge issued a temporary restraining order saying you cannot

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Speaker 2: move forward with deportations under these powers, when planes took

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Speaker 2: off where they were when he issued his ruling from

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Speaker 2: the bench, saying, even if planes are in the air,

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Speaker 2: you need to turn them around where they were when

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Speaker 2: the final order came out, et cetera. We'll get to

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Speaker 2: that in a moment, But yesterday there was another court

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Speaker 2: hearing with the same judge who was demanding answers from

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Speaker 2: the government about what the hell happened here? Under what

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Speaker 2: justification did you not listen to my order? And how

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Speaker 2: did we get to where we are? So let's go

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Speaker 2: ahead and put this up on the screen. This is

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Speaker 2: from Kyle Cheney, who is Politico's court reporter and has

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Speaker 2: done a good job tracking the many lawsuits against this

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Speaker 2: administration at this point, so.

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Speaker 3: He says the hearing is over.

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Speaker 2: Boseborg was incredulous that DOJ claimed he had no authority

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Speaker 2: to order the plane to turn around just because it

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Speaker 2: crossed out of US airspace, something he said was well

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Speaker 2: established in many contexts. He wants details about whether DOJ

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Speaker 2: openly defied his order on March fifteenth when it ordered

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Speaker 2: planes to take off and leave US airspace, even after

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Speaker 2: he orally ordered the government not to do that. The

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Speaker 2: remedy for an order they don't like, Bosborg said, is

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Speaker 2: to appeal or seek to modify it not simply to

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Speaker 2: ignore it. He wants a sworn declaration by noon tomorrow

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Speaker 2: with details about how this played out. Can put the

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Speaker 2: next tear sheet up on the screen. It has some

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Speaker 2: additional details here ties together some of the different places

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Speaker 2: where the Trump administration has at least tested the bounds

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Speaker 2: of defiance of court orders.

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Speaker 3: Will say.

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Speaker 2: The headline is Trump already on a collision course with

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Speaker 2: the courts hits the gas. This is kind of the

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Speaker 2: most combustible situation with regard to potential, like just outright

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Speaker 2: direct defiance. And part of what they write in this article,

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Speaker 2: which is also by the same guy, Kyle Cheney, along

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Speaker 2: with two other co authors, is on Monday afternoon, the

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Speaker 2: Justice Department urged Boseburg to call off his scrutiny of

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Speaker 2: Trump's decision to label some Venezuelan migrants as terrorists in

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Speaker 2: order to quote de escalate the grave incursions on executive

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Speaker 2: branche authority that have already arisen. When Bosberg refused to

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Speaker 2: cancel that Monday afternoon hearing, the dj asked a federal

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Speaker 2: appellate court to remove this judge from the case altogether,

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Speaker 2: an extraordinary step to circumvent judicial scrutiny. The White House,

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Speaker 2: for its part, is dismissing arguments that the presence actions

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Speaker 2: are pushing the country toward a constitutional crisis. Officials agree

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Speaker 2: the nation is in one, but they blame it on

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Speaker 2: the courts, framing recent rulings as the moves of radical

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Speaker 2: leftist judges, though some of those judges were appointed by

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Speaker 2: Republican presidents.

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Speaker 3: Quote.

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Speaker 2: The constant pitutional crisis is not in the executive branch,

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Speaker 2: it's in the judiciary branch, White House spokesperson Harrison Field said,

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Speaker 2: adding that the pushback to the administration's weekend deportations quote

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Speaker 2: speaks more of democrats loyalty or lack thereof, to this

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Speaker 2: nation than anything else. So the government has made a

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Speaker 2: few claims here, you know, to claim that they are

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Speaker 2: not defying court orders. One is they say that while

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Speaker 2: you issued the order to turn the planes around from

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Speaker 2: the bench, and we don't really think that that has

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Speaker 2: the same weight as.

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Speaker 3: A written order.

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Speaker 2: The judge judge very much yesterday and that hearing rejected

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Speaker 2: that particular claim. Another claim that was made was that, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: the planes were over international waters when you issued your ruling,

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Speaker 2: so that's you know, that's it was too late. Basically,

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Speaker 2: we couldn't or wouldn't once it was over international waters.

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Speaker 3: We weren't going to turn them around.

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Speaker 2: Well, one thing that came out yesterday, I can put

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Speaker 2: this up on the screen, this chart of the flights.

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Speaker 2: At least one of the flights was actually still on

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Speaker 2: the ground at the time in Texas when the initial

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Speaker 2: order at six forty eight was read from the bench. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So another claim that the government has made is well,

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Speaker 2: actually that particular plane, the third one, and by the way,

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Speaker 2: the other two had not yet reached their destination, either

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Speaker 2: when that initial order was read from the bench or

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Speaker 2: when the final ridden order came down. So the other

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Speaker 2: claim was, well the third plane, that one was subject.

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Speaker 2: That wasn't Alien Enemies Act, that was different powers. Of course,

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Speaker 2: we don't know who was on the plane, so we

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Speaker 2: have no idea and basically Savary yesterday the government pretty

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Speaker 2: much stonewalled.

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Speaker 3: It just wouldn't answer any question the.

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Speaker 1: Government aside in Title fifty authority, which is intelligence, like

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Speaker 1: you said, on the third plane. The result of the

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Speaker 1: hearing yesterday basically is Judge Bosberg is demanding that the

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Speaker 1: government issue a sworn affidavit that the third plane was

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Speaker 1: not invoked under the Alien Enemies Act and was used

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Speaker 1: under a different authority. They said none of the plaintiffs

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Speaker 1: of the five plaintiffs that were ordered under Judge Bosberg

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Speaker 1: were on board that plane. It was the other two.

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Speaker 1: So this is almost certainly rocketing to the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: within the next two weeks. The authority over Alien Enemies Act.

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Speaker 1: Over the ability of a federal district judge to order

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Speaker 1: something what I think is extraordinary. We debated it extensively yesterday.

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Speaker 1: To literally force a plane that is outside of the

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Speaker 1: United States to turn around and come back to the

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Speaker 1: United States. There's both legal scrutiny over that specifically, and

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Speaker 1: as I understand it from Boseburg, this is not a

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Speaker 1: ruling on the Alien Enemies Act whatsoever. He is asking

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Speaker 1: for a declaration of who is covered under the Alien

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Speaker 1: Enemies Act. But the Act provision is not itself the

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Speaker 1: one that is under a legal scrutiny. It's the removal

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Speaker 1: authority for deepprocess under the government for the specific plaintiffs

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Speaker 1: that were named by the ACLU. But I was just saying,

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Speaker 1: in terms of what I read yesterday from the review

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Speaker 1: of the Alien Enemies Act, the judge. It's complicated, basically,

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Speaker 1: they It's not as cut and dry, I think as

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Speaker 1: saying this was up to the judge as to whether

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Speaker 1: this was the Alien Enemies Act or not, as to

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Speaker 1: whether it is employable. It is these specific individuals, the

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Speaker 1: legitimacy of applying that to these specific individuals under the

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Speaker 1: ACLU of the plaintiffs were this car with this action

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Speaker 1: that the planes took off, And I know this is

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Speaker 1: incredibly complicated. I've genuinely tried to read for hours about

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Speaker 1: something called like judiciability or something judicity, which is the

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Speaker 1: ability to apply judicial review, which is what the government

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Speaker 1: is also claiming. That came out in a Steven Miller

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Speaker 1: interview anyway.

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Speaker 2: So here's here is the timeline, and this will help

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Speaker 2: clarify some of what happened here. So obviously Trump has

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Speaker 2: been saying for a long time, including on the campaign trail,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to use the Alien Enemies Act. So lawyers

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Speaker 2: with the ACLU and other groups were like ready to go, like, okay,

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Speaker 2: when he does that, we're going to challenge that.

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Speaker 3: And they started to.

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Speaker 2: Get There were news reports that he was moving towards

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Speaker 2: invoking the Alien Enemies Act, and some of the people

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Speaker 2: that they were in touch with started to get moved around.

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Speaker 2: Some Venezuelan migrants started to get moved around and all

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Speaker 2: shipped excuse me, to this Texas ice detention facility. And

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Speaker 2: so they suspected, okay, this is imminently coming. So, knowing

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Speaker 2: that the government was going to act really fast, they

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Speaker 2: filed an initial suit with these five particular migrants as

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Speaker 2: their as their clients involved in this suit.

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Speaker 3: Then once it became.

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Speaker 2: Completely clear and perhaps even waited for the official declaration,

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Speaker 2: then they expanded it to the entire class of migrants,

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Speaker 2: so that this was now not just about these five individuals.

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Speaker 2: This was about the entire class of migrants and who

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Speaker 2: were held undocumented migrants who were held in DHS facilities,

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Speaker 2: so that it would apply to everyone who might be

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Speaker 2: put on these planes and shipped down. So that's how

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Speaker 2: this ends up. The judge the court system actually in

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Speaker 2: this instance acted quite quickly.

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Speaker 3: The judge from the bench.

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Speaker 2: At six forty eight says, you cannot issuing a temporary

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Speaker 2: restraining order. That is not a finding on the merits.

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Speaker 2: But his view was it is likely that the use

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Speaker 2: of the Alien Enemies Act is going to be found

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Speaker 2: to be illegal, and so in order to prevent harm

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Speaker 2: in the meantime from occurring, issuing this temporary restraining order.

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Speaker 2: So this can work its way through the courts on

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Speaker 2: the merits and decide whether it's appropriate invocation. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's never before, like he's claiming that Venezuela, by dint

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Speaker 2: of their proxy, this gang trender Aragua has invaded the country.

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Speaker 2: It's never been issued before outside of like Clearcut wartime

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Speaker 2: instances eighteen twelve, World War one, World War II. So

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Speaker 2: a lot of legal questions, to say the least, about

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Speaker 2: whether this is appropriate. You know, what it led to

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Speaker 2: is the Trump administration being able without any due process

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Speaker 2: to take people. They sent them to this foreign prison

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Speaker 2: notorious in Nol Salvador for torture and human rights abuse.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, all of this is very is legally dubious,

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Speaker 2: to say the least. So he issues the temporary restraining order.

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Speaker 2: It's meant to apply to all migrants, not just the

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Speaker 2: five that were specifically originally named in the lawsuit. And

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Speaker 2: that's where these you know, timings come in. So six

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Speaker 2: forty eight is when he issues the ruling. Those planes

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Speaker 2: are two of the planes are in there one of

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Speaker 2: them still on the ground.

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Speaker 3: Again, the.

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Speaker 2: Government has refused to say who was on these planes.

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Speaker 2: They've refused in the hearing yesterday. They refused even to

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Speaker 2: reveal when the planes took off, when they landed their

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Speaker 2: citing national security, et cetera. So the very latest from

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Speaker 2: judge out of this hearing was, you have to tell

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Speaker 2: us by noon. I believe today the answers to these

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Speaker 2: questions and if you need to do it under seal, Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's fine, and we're going to have another hearing on Friday.

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Speaker 2: But the judge is very perturbed, seemingly at the government's

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Speaker 2: stonewalling and defiance of what the judge ultimately asked them

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Speaker 2: to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's incredibly well said. That's exactly right. So I

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Speaker 1: know it's really complicated for people to stick with. It

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Speaker 1: will eventually come down to a ruling on Friday, It

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Speaker 1: will almost certainly immediately be appealed, and then it is

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Speaker 1: going to rocket its way to the US Supreme Court,

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Speaker 1: where it is almost certainly that the meta questions around

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Speaker 1: this are going to be solved. And it is one

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Speaker 1: that is now like this is always the issue. Like

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Speaker 1: I'm not a lawyer, so I can't speak to everything.

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Speaker 1: I've done my best to look at the TikTok, Like

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Speaker 1: I said, to look into the title fifty authority, the

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Speaker 1: judicious judice, the ability to apply judicial review, reading the

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Speaker 1: Statue of the Alien Enemies Act itself, which by the way,

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Speaker 1: is actually worth reading because it's from seventeen ninety eight.

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Speaker 1: But the point being is we are in a situation

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Speaker 1: where this is almost certainly going to get resolved at

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Speaker 1: high level, and that is it appears, just from what

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Speaker 1: I've been able to see, that's kind of something that

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Speaker 1: they want because this is a fight that they are

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Speaker 1: very comfortable picking with the public. As you said, Tom Homan,

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Speaker 1: who is the White House Borders are appeared on television

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Speaker 1: immediately afterwards and was defiant. Let's take a listen, probably

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Speaker 1: be a part of this administration.

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Speaker 4: We're not stopping.

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Speaker 5: I don't care what the judges think, I don't care

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Speaker 5: the left things we're coming.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, pretty defiant there for you, Tom Homan.

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Speaker 1: This is the thing at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of messaging war that's also happening here

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Speaker 1: because that's not even really true, Like they do care

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Speaker 1: what the judge thing because they're not continuing the deportation flights.

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Speaker 1: They keep saying they're going to, it's not actually happening.

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Speaker 1: And it's one of those where they're both trying to

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Speaker 1: placate an incredible amount of frustration in the administration over

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Speaker 1: the numerous amounts of temporary restraining orders and other things

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Speaker 1: have come out. This one is a fight that they

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Speaker 1: feel very comfortable both picking and getting the precedent set

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Speaker 1: at the Supreme Court to resolve it in the incoming

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Speaker 1: years of the administry or the outcoming years of the administration,

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Speaker 1: to try and resolve these and to basically try and

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Speaker 1: basically force a fight on the ability for tro district

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Speaker 1: judges to intervene on every individual deportation case. But I

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Speaker 1: think what's happening is that we're watching a fight that

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Speaker 1: they feel very very comfortable picking, in particular on this one.

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Speaker 1: And it's actually kind of noteworthy to me that this

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Speaker 1: is the one that's been the most high profile one

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Speaker 1: and it's not doge where Look, they've talked a game

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Speaker 1: in the past and Elan has said what we need

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Speaker 1: to impeach judges, etc. They have never really gone all

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Speaker 1: that far. There's been some questions over like I would

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Speaker 1: say like modern compliance or whatever on USAID, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: But like this is the one where this is the

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Speaker 1: big one, and for them they I think it too.

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Speaker 1: Just yesterday a poll came out showing border and immigration

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Speaker 1: is actually the number one issue that Trump has right now.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately for him, he's underwater on the economy. We're about

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Speaker 1: to talk about that in a second. It actually maybe

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Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this. I think one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons that all of this is happening right now is

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Speaker 1: it doesn't take a genius to look at the news

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Speaker 1: and say, oh my god. Every day we're getting pummeled

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Speaker 1: on Doge and on the stock market, our tarif stuff

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Speaker 1: not working. Now we've got a full born war in Gaza.

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Speaker 1: It's like, well, what do we have left? Well, this

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Speaker 1: is the immigration promises, which we literally have not even

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Speaker 1: kept for the first fifty days of the administration. Any

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Speaker 1: serious immigration person could have told you that the numbers

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Speaker 1: were basically on par and for actual deportation with the

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Speaker 1: Biden administration, and they were using Doge excuses saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: these flights are too expensive to carry that out, which

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Speaker 1: you know, as we talked to us like oh things

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Speaker 1: are too expensive for source security, for immigration, but we

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Speaker 1: have unlimited missiles that we can fire into Yemen. So

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Speaker 1: it was a priorities mismatch. And this is clearly political

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Speaker 1: ground that they feel very strong fighting on.

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Speaker 2: I think your political analysis there is correct, and I

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Speaker 2: suspect the same that they wanted to provoke a reaction

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Speaker 2: with this invocation at this moment, because look, the market

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Speaker 2: shit the bed last week. There is you know, incredible

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Speaker 2: upset and concern as we're about to talk about with

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Speaker 2: regard to the economy, there is probably even more upset

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Speaker 2: and concern with regard to the attacks on social security.

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Speaker 2: Elon is dramatically underwater. Trump's approval rating in almost every

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Speaker 2: poll is on the downslide. It's still very early in

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Speaker 2: the administration, and I think that they feel that they

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Speaker 2: are on very firm political ground to pick a fight

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Speaker 2: over people that they describe as Venezuelan gang members. And

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Speaker 2: you know, so I think you're right that they welcome

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Speaker 2: this fight and they feel politically that this benefits them.

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Speaker 2: You can watch our lengthy debate yesterday. I just will

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Speaker 2: remind that what we're talking about here with regards to

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Speaker 2: you know, in this particular case, they're arguing, not only that,

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Speaker 2: you know, can they invoke the Alien Enemies Act and

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Speaker 2: then just deport whoever they want with no due process,

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Speaker 2: where we don't even get to know who they are,

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Speaker 2: whether they're actually gang members, whether they're even Venezuelan migrants.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, can go and look at some

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Speaker 2: news reports already of US citizens who have gotten mistakenly

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Speaker 2: swept up by ICE, which now, because of upset over

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Speaker 2: the relatively low deportation numbers, now has had a quota institute,

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Speaker 2: which of course leads to them being more aggressive about, like,

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Speaker 2: let's just sweep up anyone who looks like they.

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Speaker 3: Might be undocumented.

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Speaker 2: So in any case, what they're trying to claim is

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Speaker 2: that the president has sole discretion to deport anyone he

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Speaker 2: wants at any time.

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Speaker 3: And as I.

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Speaker 2: Said yesterday, they have offered no proof that these individuals

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Speaker 2: were actually gang members. We actually don't even know one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent that they are migrants, that they are Venezuelan.

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Speaker 2: I suspect that that is the case, but we don't

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Speaker 2: know who they are. Some of the people who we've

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Speaker 2: been able to learn who they are, their family members

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Speaker 2: and their legal counsel insists they are not gang members.

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Speaker 2: One is a teen who happened to have a rose

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Speaker 2: tattoo that he thought looked cool that he got in Texas,

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Speaker 2: according to his sister. Another is a tattoo artist. Again,

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Speaker 2: one of the common themes is there's just seems to

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Speaker 2: be an assumption that if you have a tattoo, you

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Speaker 2: are a gang member. Another thing the Washington Post uncovered

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Speaker 2: with regard to some of the gang members alleged gang

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Speaker 2: members in Quantanamo Bay is that they also were not

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Speaker 2: gang members. They were just from the state of Ragua,

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Speaker 2: which is where this gang originates, and were actually fleeing

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Speaker 2: gang violence. So all of this is to say, that's

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Speaker 2: why I think due process is important, so that look,

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Speaker 2: the government can make their claims and people have a

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Speaker 2: chance to robut them. The fact that they've been put

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Speaker 2: into this El Salvador prison that is quite notorious means

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Speaker 2: that journalists, family members, lawyers, no one has access to them,

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Speaker 2: No one could determine the veracity of the claims that

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Speaker 2: are currently being made by the government whatsoever. And so

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Speaker 2: if I'm also not a lawyer, so I can't say

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Speaker 2: whether which direction the courts are likely to go in

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Speaker 2: with this extraordinary claim of power. But what they're trying

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Speaker 2: to assert is that they can literally remove anyone that

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Speaker 2: this government decides to remove with no scrutiny whatsoever. And

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Speaker 2: so I agree with you, Sager, that I think it

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Speaker 2: is an intentional provocation. But the reason why I think

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Speaker 2: it's important to fight is because that is an extreme

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Speaker 2: breach of civil rights, constitutional rights, not just visa VI,

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Speaker 2: you know, migrants, undocumented immigrants, et cetera, but genuinely has

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Speaker 2: consequences for all of us because again, if you have

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Speaker 2: no due process, you don't even have to prove that

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Speaker 2: they're undocumented immigrants, let alone gang members, let alone criminals,

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Speaker 2: let alone anything else.

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Speaker 3: And so in any case, that's why I view this as.

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Speaker 2: Quite an extraordinary moment and an important one to follow,

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Speaker 2: even though I do think it is a political provocation

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Speaker 2: to try to cover up from some of the things

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Speaker 2: that they're doing that have become profoundly unpopular.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I I take what you're saying. I spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of time thinking about it yesterday. I do think, however,

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Speaker 1: that this, you know, and I think the new press

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Speaker 1: process claims etc. Are fair. However, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: that missing the context of the broader illegal immigration situation,

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Speaker 1: the extraordinary developments that have happened over the last four years,

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Speaker 1: not just to mention the last twenty five years even

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Speaker 1: before that, not to mention as well, much of the

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Speaker 1: legal precedence as to why I don't think it will

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Speaker 1: lead to what you're saying between Homdi so I actually

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Speaker 1: looked at some case law Homdi v. Rumsfeldt, which previously

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Speaker 1: talked to the US government's detention who was a US

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Speaker 1: citizen who was captured in Afghanistan. This cannot actually be applied,

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Speaker 1: you know, to a United States citizen, which the Bush

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Speaker 1: administration wanted to in the past, for both indefinite attention

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Speaker 1: and the removal of due process. US citizens specifically have

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Speaker 1: much stronger and male litigated due process rights than those

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Speaker 1: who are present in the country, especially who are present

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Speaker 1: in the country illegally. And then secondly, there was a

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Speaker 1: second case here, which was Alwiki v. Penetta, which followed

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Speaker 1: the drone strike after Amar Alwiki and his family were

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Speaker 1: struck by the United States. Now, I still think that's

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Speaker 1: an insane thing that happened there in the past, but

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Speaker 1: the court basically basically ruled through dismissal that they do

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Speaker 1: not have the ability to challenge national security authority. Now,

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Speaker 1: the solution here is staring everybody in the face. If

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Speaker 1: everybody thought that the law was so terrible, they should

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Speaker 1: have repealed the law. I think they keep it on

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Speaker 1: the books, you know, because they want the ability to

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Speaker 1: be able to use it. Trump did telegraph this previously.

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Speaker 1: I think that the case law there is actually quite

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Speaker 1: strong and that there are enough backstops. You can disagree

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Speaker 1: with me, that's fine to protect US citizens. We just

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Speaker 1: have a big disagreement, I think, which comes to the

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Speaker 1: treatment of how we should think of people who are

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Speaker 1: president in the country illegally and whether that's a country

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Speaker 1: problem and or not. I think it's extraordinary and in

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Speaker 1: particularly that these laws asylum, tps, etc. Have been dramatically

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Speaker 1: abused to facilitate mass illegal immigration, have put a huge

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Speaker 1: amount of strain, and I don't think it's surprised to

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Speaker 1: me as well. On the political front, you know, looking

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Speaker 1: just back at the approval numbers that I have in

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Speaker 1: front of me. Here, the issue breakdown is Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: has got border security and immigration literally higher than and

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Speaker 1: he's the only issue area where he is more popular

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Speaker 1: than not on foreign policy, on the economy, on inflation,

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Speaker 1: and on Russia Ukraine underwater on all four of those things.

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Speaker 1: I could be wrong. It could be that there is

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Speaker 1: a genuine change in the way that the United States

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Speaker 1: has happened and thinks that this is an extraordinary action.

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Speaker 1: But part of me also feels that the administration wants

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Speaker 1: to pick bread fights about this, not even to facilitate

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Speaker 1: mass deportation. What I have heard from many is that guys,

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Speaker 1: you're an idiot if you ever believed mass deportation was

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Speaker 1: going to happen. We have to do these stunts effectively

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Speaker 1: to facilitate mass self deportation, which is not a surprise

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Speaker 1: considering the launch just a few days ago of a

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Speaker 1: CBP home app by the administration the two hundred million

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Speaker 1: dollars add buy. I was watching Fox News the other

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Speaker 1: day and I Christy Nome popped up on my TV

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Speaker 1: and I was like, who is watching Fox News? That

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Speaker 1: is going to self deport You know, that was another thing,

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Speaker 1: just as it's another basic level.

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Speaker 3: And escape that dose scrutiny that we've been talking.

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Speaker 1: Can you tea me it costs two hundred million? Right,

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Speaker 1: I thought I was watching that, I'm like, is this

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Speaker 1: not just basically like feel good propaganda. That's the government.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm not, you know, cheerleading all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I don't even disagree that the government should handle

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Speaker 1: this differently. I think I said that yesterday they absolutely

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Speaker 1: should have released the dossier and or whatever they're doing

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Speaker 1: it to the maxixkinding because they think that this is

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Speaker 1: a fight that they can win and they want to

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Speaker 1: try and set that legal president basically like all presidents

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Speaker 1: before them who are beefing with the courts. I was

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Speaker 1: reading a little bit about the Bush administration response to

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Speaker 1: hamdiv Rumsfeld, where Rumsfeld and Alberto Gonzalez actually told Bush

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Speaker 1: to keep colding Homdy for unlimited detention and not ignore

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Speaker 1: We're not talking about district cut judge. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court of the United States. So anyway, some

438
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 1: historical and reading other things that I put and thought

439
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: into the case, which I know is very emotional and

440
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: is a difficult topic.

441
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 2: Let me go ahead and play Pam Bondi, the Attorney

442
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 2: General who was on the shows last night on primetime

443
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 2: on Fox, I think with Janine Bureau maybe who indicated

444
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 2: that the flights similar to this one under the Alien

445
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 2: Enemies Act were quote absolutely going to continue.

446
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen to that.

447
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 6: The amazing thing about this Attorney General is that you've

448
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 6: got a local district court judge now who is saying

449
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 6: that he can stop the president from enforcing his powers

450
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,959
Speaker 6: under Article two to protect the America?

451
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 1: Can people? Number one?

452
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 6: Will his order this temporary restraining order on the on

453
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 6: the Alien Enemies Act? Will that be you know, respected

454
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 6: going forward? And where does he get this power to

455
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 6: stop the president engaging in national security and foreign policy?

456
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 3: Well, that's it.

457
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 7: He's attempting to meddle in national security and foreign affairs

458
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 7: and he can't do it. What he's done is an

459
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 7: intrusion on the president's authority. You know, this one federal

460
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 7: judge again thinks he can control foreign policy for the

461
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 7: entire country, and he cannot. And right now we're evaluating

462
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 7: our options.

463
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 6: Okay, so you made the administration may continue doing these flights.

464
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 7: Absolutely, these are foreign terrorists that the President has identified

465
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 7: them and designated them as such, and we will continue

466
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 7: to follow the Alien Enemies Act.

467
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 2: So she says, the flights will absolutely continue, we will

468
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 2: if that is the case. I'll just last thing I'll

469
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 2: say about this is I think it can both be

470
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 2: the case that it is a stunt, which I tend

471
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 2: to agree with you, Sager, and that it is extraordinarily

472
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 2: important and dangerous development, because there actually is no backstop

473
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: from anyone getting swept up, especially if they're being sent

474
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 2: to this prison where we have no access to them,

475
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 2: that is known for torture, where Bkelly is out there

476
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 2: bragging about the way they'll be used for slave labor

477
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 2: to make the prison quote unquote financially sustainable. So if

478
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 2: you don't have due process, is not even an ability

479
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 2: to check that these are not American citizens, that these

480
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 2: are not legitimate Green colored holders, or legitimate visa holders.

481
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 2: There's certainly no check to verify that they are actually

482
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 2: gang members and terrorists as is being claimed, and in fact,

483
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,719
Speaker 2: the government has been caught in those lies with regard

484
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: to people being alleged gang members in the past. As

485
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 2: I mentioned yesterday, there are The estimate is there are

486
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 2: a few hundred trend de Iragua members in the entire country,

487
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 2: So they're purporting to have deported to this El Salvador

488
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 2: prison several hundred just with these flights, so the numbers

489
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: don't work out. There are almost certainly people who were

490
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 2: part of this, and you know, family members and lawyers

491
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 2: are already asserting as such that were part of this

492
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 2: deportation that had nothing to do with trend de Iragua,

493
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 2: and who have now been put indefinitely into this prison

494
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 2: where no one can reach them, no lawyers, no family members,

495
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 2: no journalists, et cetera, and they're actually without due process.

496
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 2: Is no backstop from this being able to happen to anyone.

497
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: So if the courts rule on the merits in Trump's favor,

498
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 2: that means he then has claimed these wartime powers to

499
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: disappear anyone he wants to disappear. And that's why this

500
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 2: is to me. Yes, it's a stunt and also extraordinarily dangerous,

501
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 2: troubling abridgment of not just the rights and the human

502
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 2: rights of you know, people who are migrants, of people

503
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: who are here without papers, but also of American citizens

504
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,959
Speaker 2: who could easily easily and have already been mistakenly snatched

505
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 2: up by ice, who could easily be caught up in

506
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 2: this as well. If the courts don't take a stand

507
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 2: here and enforce say, look, we are not at war,

508
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 2: this is not an invasion. You don't get to claim

509
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 2: these wartime authorities. And the other thing is I mean

510
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 2: they've also been they've also floated in booking the Insurrection Act.

511
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 2: This would be another sort of like wartime authority that

512
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 2: they could claim. And the trend with this president, which yes,

513
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 2: other presidents have done similar things, certainly George W. Bush

514
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: comes to mind, but the dramatic, rapid expansion of the

515
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 2: powers that he has claimed is something that I think

516
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 2: is quite extraordinarily extraordinary and deeply troubling.

517
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: I think that's understandable. As I said, I think there's

518
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: a lot of case law and a lot of differences,

519
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: especially withholding any of this from happening to a US citizen.

520
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 1: But will continue to cover it here. Why don't we

521
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: move on to the economy. Let's talk about consumer sentiment,

522
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: which is not very good right now. Let's put this

523
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: up there on the screen. Came out a couple of

524
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: days ago. It was absolutely you know, it's actually kind

525
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: of missed. We weren't able to cover it in the

526
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 1: last couple of days. But there's a University of Michigan

527
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 1: survey which is very closely watched, which looks at consumer sentiment. Now,

528
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: what is consumer sentiment? That's actually a very important question.

529
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: The way the consumer sentiment is basically defined is your

530
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: want and think about how you're going to spend money

531
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: and how you're feeling about the economy. So it is

532
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: a subjective thing, but overall actually has a pretty good

533
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: track record about people's subjective view of the economy. That

534
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: can then obviously have a lot of impacts going into retail.

535
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: So the University of Michigan Consumer Sentiment Survey showed an

536
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: eleven percent decline in mid March to fifty seven point

537
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 1: nine from sixty four point seven the last month. Quote

538
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: a downward trend that has taken hold since office. That

539
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: is the single lowest level since November of twenty twenty two,

540
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: when inflation was rampant, and compared with just one year earlier,

541
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 1: it is down some twenty seven percent, so nearly third

542
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: drop in overall consumer sentiment. Now why does that matter?

543
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: Because consumer economy spending is seventy percent of our economy.

544
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: We'll put the next one up there on the screen.

545
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: The long term inflation view within that consumer sentiment also

546
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: jumped the most since nineteen ninety three, meaning that people's

547
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: feeling that inflation will continue for the foreseeable future has

548
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: had such a precipitous incline that I thought, more than

549
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: the consumer sentiment was the biggest headline is not not

550
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: only do people have bad consumer sentiment in their wont

551
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: to spend money in the overall economy, they also believe

552
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: that right now that inflation will be higher in the future. Now,

553
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: when you do that all kinds of downstream effects. People

554
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: hoard cash, people or even worse, you know, for our economy,

555
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: they just don't spend any money, or they think that

556
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: because their bills and all that are going to go up,

557
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: they basically lock it in place. And if you don't

558
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: spend money, money is not being spread around. Then everybody's

559
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: overall income is beginning to go down and the aggregate

560
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: and we're going to watch stocks go down, retail businesses collapse, vacation, etc.

561
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: And probably the worst outcome is that the only group

562
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: that's not going to pair back consumer spending is rich people.

563
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: So we will only increase the pyramid function that we

564
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: already have in the economy right now. So overall, it's

565
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: not a good trend. And this is the piercing heart

566
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: of this will pierce the heart of any successful Trump administration.

567
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: You can overcome a lot, but you cannot overcome a

568
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: bad economy as Joe Biden did, especially not we're going

569
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: to talk about social security that stuff in the future.

570
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: If people feel like their services are getting cut and

571
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: stuff is going to get more expensive, you're done, you know,

572
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: I mean, put mid terms and all of that aside.

573
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: Just in terms of a political movement and strategy, you

574
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: will lead yourself down the George W. Bush path of

575
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: destruction of legacy administration and put yourself in the wilderness

576
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: for a decade, just like they did.

577
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 3: Very possible, very tall.

578
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: I mean that seems to be like what they want

579
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: to do. I don't really understand any of it.

580
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: I mean, there is a theory that they want a crisis,

581
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 2: because a crisis again, what your presidents do in a crisis,

582
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 2: they are able to claim more powers and you know,

583
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: a certain more authority. So you know, as you see

584
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 2: these things that you're like, this is insane. I mean,

585
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 2: especially around the economy, You're like, this is insane. It

586
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 2: feels like you're trying to trigger a stock market crash

587
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: and a recession, et cetera. You know, there's a theory

588
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: that first of all, recession, who comes down on top

589
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 2: as you said, the only people who don't really suffer

590
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,719
Speaker 2: are ultimately the richest. And when and everything crashes and

591
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 2: prices are at rock bottom. We saw this with COVID,

592
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 2: We saw this with the financial crash. We saw this

593
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,239
Speaker 2: even out of the dot com bubble. The richester are

594
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 2: able to buy up more assets and then they're the

595
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 2: ones who are able to benefit. On the other side,

596
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: you know, even with the DOGE cuts on the National

597
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: Weather Service, the FAA going after Social Security, all these

598
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,239
Speaker 2: things that could also precipitate either mass public resistance or

599
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: some sort of an active crisis. Again, those are times

600
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: when presidents are able to claim more power. So that

601
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: is one thought that is out there. Is that to

602
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: your point about like it feels like they want this,

603
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 2: one theory is that they do.

604
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 3: Now.

605
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's true or not, but that

606
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 2: is one theory that is out there. Just to go

607
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 2: back to the economic numbers here and why when you

608
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 2: look at these consumer sentiment what do they expect about inflation? Like,

609
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: why does that matter? Part of the reason that there

610
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 2: was so much difficulty getting inflation under control in the

611
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 2: seventy was because of consumer expectations of inflation. So it

612
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 2: had a self fulfilling aspect to it. Once people thought

613
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,959
Speaker 2: prices are going to go up, then for one thing,

614
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: you get you know, corporations like we saw coming out

615
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: of COVID that are like, oh, well, people think prices

616
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 2: are going to go up, so I can get away

617
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 2: with hiking prices. That was actually big part the greedflation

618
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: was a big part of the inflation, not one hundred percent,

619
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 2: but a significant chunk coming out of the COVID crisis.

620
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: But it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Not to mention

621
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: retailers who many of whom Target reported soft sales big

622
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: lots forever twenty one actually filed for bankruptcy. I think

623
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: this is their second time filing for bankruptcy bedback. A

624
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 2: bunch of retailers have been warning that their sales are

625
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 2: soft and are seeing a pullback from consumers already, and

626
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: then when you layer on top of that, they're watching

627
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: these indexes very closely to determine how much stock are

628
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: we going to buy, how many people are we going

629
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: to hire, how many people are we going to lay off.

630
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: All those sorts of things are based on these types

631
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: of metrics and expectations of what consumers feel now and

632
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: what they're likely to do in the future. So that's

633
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: why when you see these metrics, it's not just about like, oh,

634
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: how's Billy feeling about shopping this week, how's his sentiment.

635
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: It has a real impact in terms of the way

636
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: that business reacts in the immediate term and can then,

637
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,719
Speaker 2: like I said, have a self fulfilling prophecy aspect to it,

638
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 2: especially at a time when the White House's economic policy

639
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 2: is we'll just call it chaotic, Okay, if there's a plan,

640
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: no one can figure out what the hell it is.

641
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 2: It's all over the place. You've got mass austerity in

642
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: the government. But meanwhile a tariff policy, which if a

643
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 2: tariff policy is going to be effective, you actually need

644
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: government spending, industrial policy, investment, etc. The teriff policy's on,

645
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 2: it's off, it's here, it's there, it's coming in April,

646
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 2: it's back again. It's all over the map. So there's

647
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 2: no clear direction there either. And then you also have,

648
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: you know, coming down the pike, the Reconciliation Bill and

649
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: what all of that is going to mean. You've got

650
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 2: these cuts happening at the government level, which really do

651
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: reverberate in a way that I don't know.

652
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 3: That people have fully anticipated.

653
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 2: You see already universities pulling back in terms of their

654
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: spending and hiring. You see healthcare pullbacks in terms of

655
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 2: their spending and hiring because of the cuts and the

656
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 2: threats of those cuts to come. So all around it

657
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: is a There are a lot of giant red flags

658
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: and warning signs. Even as you know the stock market

659
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 2: did better this week, I don't know the markets. I

660
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 2: think right now it's nine twenty seven, so bad. Yeah,

661
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 2: it's stock futures have edged down. We'll see what happens

662
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: for the rest of this week. But there is still

663
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 2: a lot to be very concerned about it.

664
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's play Secretary Treasury Scott Besson. He was asked

665
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: about the market crash. Let's take a listen.

666
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,479
Speaker 3: Let's talk about what happened in the stock market this week,

667
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 3: worst week for the market in two years. Does that

668
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 3: worry you, mister Secretary, not at all.

669
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 8: I've been in the investment of business for thirty five

670
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 8: years and I can tell you that correction are healthy,

671
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 8: They're normal. What's not healthy is straight up that you

672
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 8: get these your ford markets. That's how you get a

673
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,959
Speaker 8: financial crisis. It would have been much healthier. If someone

674
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 8: had put the brakes on in six oh seven, we

675
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 8: wouldn't have had the problems in eight.

676
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: So I'm not worried. Well, you know, Okay, it's one

677
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: of those where, look, it's bad optics. I'm not even

678
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: saying it's funny the best and I like best and

679
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: I like a lot of the stuff that he says.

680
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: And if it was just somebody like him, and it

681
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: was a total you know, a government approach which was

682
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: tariff and it was studied, and he was also out

683
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: there saying, you know, the American dream he keeps saying

684
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: is the American dream is not flast screen TV. I

685
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: totally agree on all of this, but when it's coupled

686
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 1: with literal just madness and chaos that is back and forth,

687
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: obviously no real plan at all, then you're getting into

688
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: territory where people are like, no, well, if all I've

689
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: got going for me is a flat screen TV, then yeah,

690
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: and you're going to try and make that more expensive

691
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: and not sell me on some big broader plan, You're

692
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: going to find yourself in real trouble. Having a not

693
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: billionaire I don't know what he is, several hundred millionaire

694
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: Secretary of the Treasury basically trying to lecture consumers and

695
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: downplaying a stock market return. That's how it's just simply

696
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 1: going to come off. Even though I agree with the

697
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: guy on a lot a lot of things that he says,

698
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: but just generally five hundred.

699
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 3: Million, it's poor in the context of this is poor.

700
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: That's right, he is a poor man. Yeah, it's just

701
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: bad optics over and over again, and I don't think

702
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: that it's being received in the way that they want.

703
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: I mean stuff like that. Imagine you know, if you

704
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 1: you probably agree maybe I think a lot of people

705
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: agree the who flat screen thing and all that, But

706
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: you gotta feel as if your country's getting a whole

707
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: lot better and you yourself in the immediate and in

708
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: the long term, are buying in to a real plan

709
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: that's going to change overall in the future. The chaos

710
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: when you're also making stuff more expensive and nuken consumer

711
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: sentiment and the stock market in the immediate term, you're

712
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: just making it so that people are more stressed out

713
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: in their day to day life, and people hate that,

714
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: and they should.

715
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 2: I think it was our now who made this point

716
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 2: on Twitter about like, yeah, I mean there he's.

717
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 3: Not to your point, he's not wrong.

718
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's right that if you have you know, our

719
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,479
Speaker 2: economy is way over financialized. It is almost certainly these

720
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: tech stocks are almost certainly overvalued in anticipation of AI.

721
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: I mean, Tesla's stock has been wildly overvalued. Just come

722
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 2: back to earth a little bit. But it's still you know,

723
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 2: we likely are in a giant sort of everything bubble.

724
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: And if you look at an analogous situation, you know,

725
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 2: we actually covered here on the show how China intentionally

726
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: let the air out of its real estate development bubble

727
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: and did that because they wanted to focus financial resources

728
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: in other parts of their economy. So they had a

729
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: priority to you know, maintain their manufacturing industrial base. Also,

730
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 2: we're going to talk probably on Thursday about the way

731
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 2: they have just technologically developed at an astronomical pace. Now

732
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: they have byd has an EV that can charge almost

733
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 2: three hundred miles in five minutes like that is astonishing,

734
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 2: And so they wanted the tech investment, they wanted the

735
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 2: you know, to maintain the industrial base. So they intentionally

736
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 2: let the air out of this giant real estate bubble.

737
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 2: But it had it was done in a like planned

738
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 2: and concerted fashion. If you're just causing a stock market

739
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 2: crash and a recession, but there's no like here's how

740
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 2: we're going to build back better on the other side,

741
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 2: then you're just causing pain.

742
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:36,399
Speaker 3: That's it.

743
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: You're taking from people what has been created as the

744
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 2: American dream. We've had decades that have been directed towards

745
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 2: making this a consumer driven economy where basically what you

746
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 2: get instead of having a vibrant factory in your town

747
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 2: and middle class union jobs, et cetera, is the flat

748
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 2: screen TV. You're going to take that away from people,

749
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 2: and you're not going to offer anything else. And on

750
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 2: the contrary, you're cutting their Social Security and you're cutting their.

751
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 3: Medicaid, etc. Then yeah, that's not going to.

752
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 2: Be a plan or a program that anyone signs up for,

753
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: especially when it's being sold by a bunch of billionaires

754
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 2: and a near five hundred millionaire in this particular case,

755
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 2: and go.

756
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is that's the issue. Let's put D five

757
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: up there on the screen. This is US shoppers cutting

758
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: spending as their economic outlook concerns mount. This goes exactly

759
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: to the same problem. And overall, you know, if we

760
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: have inflation, tariff on off changes to people's retirement status quo,

761
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: possible cuts to services, or at least the appearance of

762
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 1: cuts to services. One thing I remember talking about this

763
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: with Biden. Sometimes the facts don't actually matter. And yes,

764
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 1: I know that that's disconcerting a lot of consumer sentiments,

765
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: stock market and all this stuff. It's bullshit. It's just feeling.

766
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: You need to feel confident. People feel confident, they change.

767
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: Everybody knows that. Think about your own life. Well, if

768
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: people feel as if there's chaos, that will do just

769
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: have downstream effects that feed more into bad market. So

770
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: even if the reality and all that doesn't change, it

771
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: won't even matter in some cases if people feel as

772
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: if you're going in the wrong direction. This consistently happened

773
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: under Biden. You know, liberal economists and all that world

774
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: like actually everything is fine. It's like that's literally never

775
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: worked in all of history. Same thing here, Trying to

776
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: sell a false vision of what people feel never works.

777
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 2: At Yeah, politically, there's also just big structural like the

778
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 2: cost of living crisis is incredibly real, and it was

779
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: real before inflation hit. I mean, the cost of healthcare, housing,

780
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 2: and education has been skyrocketing for decades, vastly outpacing any

781
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 2: any wage gains that the American public, minimal wage gains

782
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,959
Speaker 2: that the American public has experienced over the past let's

783
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: say thirty to forty years, and so you know, it

784
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 2: really has reached a point where so many people housing

785
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 2: is just an unbelievable burden. Rent is so incredibly high,

786
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: and so yeah, the you know little bit of this

787
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 2: or that that they did, or the unemployment rate being low,

788
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 2: whatever metrics that they're pointing to, it's like, you don't

789
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 2: get it. I am still struggling. And the price increases.

790
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 2: The inflation that came, you know, in the wake of

791
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 2: COVID for a variety of reasons and was not dealt

792
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 2: with effectively by the Biden administration just pushed people past

793
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: the brink. So you know, all of those things are

794
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 2: incredibly real and not well captured by some of the

795
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 2: macroeconomic indices. But you know there's again like if the

796
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 2: Trump administration was like, here's how we're going to deal

797
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 2: with that, and you know, yes, there's going to be rebalancing,

798
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 2: but we're going to make sure like you're gonna be

799
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 2: able to afford a home, and here's the plan. Here's

800
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 2: how we're bringing down the cost of education, et cetera.

801
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 2: And here's how, here's how we're going to get you healthcare.

802
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 2: But on the contrary, you know the minimal reforms that

803
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 2: were made by the Biden administration to try to bring down, like,

804
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 2: you know, drug prices for example, some of those have

805
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 2: been rolled back by the Trump administration. So there if

806
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 2: anything going in the opposite direction on those key pieces

807
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 2: that I still think.

808
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 3: Are like the major drivers of.

809
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: Economic discontent, and then they're just laying layering on top of.

810
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: That extra chaos, playing with fire.

811
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 2: I think we're getting more clarity on what the plan

812
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 2: is here from Doge and from the Trump administration. And

813
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 2: just to back up before I show you this memo

814
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 2: that has been now revealed by a couple of different

815
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 2: news outlets about the plan. With regard to Social Security,

816
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 2: Elon has been targeting Social Security for a long time.

817
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 2: He went on Joe Rogan's podcast called it a Ponzi scheme.

818
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: He's retweeted Mike Lee, who's a libertarian, who calls it

819
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 2: a Ponzi scheme and a fraud, etc. Trump has long

820
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 2: positioned himself as an anti austerity republican basically didn't care

821
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: about the debt and the deficit until this term, and

822
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 2: has always said I will not cut Social Security Medicare.

823
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 2: He really distinguished himself from the Republican pack by making

824
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 2: those particular pledges. However, in his Stay of the Union address,

825
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 2: he echoed some of the same fraudulent claims made by

826
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 2: Elon Musk and the DOGE people, claiming that there were

827
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 2: all these people who were dead who were receiving Social

828
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 2: Security benefits and painting a picture of widespread fraud within

829
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 2: the Social Security system that is just not true. So

830
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 2: that was very troubling because it seemed that he was

831
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,479
Speaker 2: joining in with Elon in laying the groundwork to cut

832
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: Social Security whilst claiming they were just cutting the fraud

833
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 2: from social Security. So now we have, like I said,

834
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,919
Speaker 2: some more clarity from this memo that was leaked from

835
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 2: inside the Social Security Administration that reveals what they're planning

836
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 2: to do and can put this up on the screen.

837
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 2: Axios obtained a draft of this memo. It was signed

838
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 2: by the Acting Deputy Social Security Commissioner for Operation, someone

839
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 2: named Doris Diaz on March thirteenth, and it was written

840
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 2: on behalf of the agency's Operations department. So it was

841
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 2: first reported by Popular Info. Show you some more details

842
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 2: from them in a moment. That's Jed Legums outlet. But

843
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,399
Speaker 2: Axios here confirming the reporting, and they say that this

844
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 2: memo was sent one day after the agency had denied

845
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: a report that they were scrapping their toll free phone line. Well,

846
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 2: so they denied that, and now in this memo they

847
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 2: say that they are actually moving forward with getting rid

848
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: of most phone service for Social Security beneficiaries. Now why

849
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: does this matter? As I was reading through this, apparently

850
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 2: what happens frequently is people have to go through a

851
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 2: process either online or currently by the phone, to verify

852
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 2: their identity. Okay, that seems like a good thing. A

853
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 2: lot of old people and a lot of people, remember

854
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 2: social securities for people who have disability as well, a

855
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 2: lot of people struggle with that online process, and according

856
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: to some people who are at the Social Security Administration,

857
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 2: for some people, the online process just literally doesn't work

858
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 2: for whatever unique circumstances they have going on, and so

859
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 2: then they either have to go to a Social Security

860
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 2: field office to reserve all those problems, or are more

861
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 2: commonly to call the toll free Social Security line and

862
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 2: get help over the phone. And verify their identity that way,

863
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 2: So that is what they're planning to get rid of.

864
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: This comes at a time also when they're cutting the

865
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 2: funds for the Social Security field offices, so that avenue

866
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 2: is also becoming less available. So officials are really sounding

867
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 2: the alarms. You had one person who said these proposed

868
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 2: changes are a way they're trying to use red tape

869
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 2: to literally block people from getting benefits. Another one said

870
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 2: the money that it would cost to implement these changes

871
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 2: would dwarf any savings that would come from cracking down

872
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 2: on quote unquote identity fraud. They also said that the

873
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 2: proposed limitations would be really a problem, in particular for

874
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 2: people live in rural areas who may have either no

875
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,760
Speaker 2: internet or poor internet access, and for whom the field

876
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 2: office is far away and difficult to access. We could

877
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: put put the E one slideshow back up on the

878
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 2: screen here so we can go through some of the

879
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 2: details that we review by jud Legam as well.

880
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 3: Well. So he says exclusive.

881
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 2: Internal Social Security Administration memo lays out a plan to

882
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 2: sabotage the agency, predicts service disruption, operational strain, and budget

883
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 2: shortfalls that will result. It's going to put the next

884
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: piece up on the screen here, revealing additional details. He says,

885
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 2: under the new system, this would force these populations to

886
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 2: visit an office to have their clean process. The memo

887
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 2: estimates it would require seventy five thousand to eighty five

888
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 2: thousand in person visitors per week to ssay's offices to

889
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 2: implement the policy. They do not have the resources to

890
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 2: handle and influx. These concerns are raised in this memo.

891
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 2: I think we have one more piece of this that

892
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 2: we can share with you as well. A source said

893
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 2: there are no significant concerns about frauded intake because multiple

894
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 2: layers of ID verification takes place before a claim is approved.

895
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 2: The source said they believe the new steps are an

896
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 2: effort to create additional hurdles to filing claims and quote

897
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 2: overwhelm the system. So to back up and take this

898
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 2: all in, Okay, this change is not going to save

899
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 2: any money because implementing it is going to you know,

900
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 2: the program currently, like the way it's administered in the

901
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 2: phone system, it's not that expensive. Making these changes is

902
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 2: actually going to cost money, So you're not saving any money.

903
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: You're just making it more difficult for people who are

904
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 2: entitled to the benefits to be able to access the benefits.

905
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 2: So does it matter that social security exists and it

906
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 2: hasn't been officially quote unquote cut if more and more

907
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 2: and more people are unable to get access to the benefits,

908
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 2: And so that seems to be the plan here is

909
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 2: basically to hobble the system and strangle it with red

910
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 2: tape and with cuts so that it is more and

911
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 2: more difficult for people to actually get the benefits that

912
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 2: they are entitled to.

913
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: What's so dumb about it is they're not wrong that

914
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 1: the ID dot ME you know, verification is incredibly difficult

915
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: to use and is not a very good system. So

916
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: why wouldn't you, when you phase it out implement a

917
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 1: new system That seems like rolling something out that makes

918
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: something easier is exactly the way that you would want

919
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: to show efficiency and access to service. And instead, what

920
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: basically from what I have seen and I looked as

921
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: much as I could into this is that it basically

922
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 1: is trying to reduce the amount of phone reliance while

923
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: at the same time, as you said, increasing foot traffic

924
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: to these offices. Now, you know, our debate, notwithstanding on

925
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: whether we're coddling old people too much and all that

926
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 1: You're not wrong that there are They are entitled to

927
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: this money and they did pay into it is the

928
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: right of every American citizen. So I guess, you know,

929
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: we have to provide customer service in any way, shape

930
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: or form. But the promise originally was to create a

931
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: new system which would make it more accessible. They've recently

932
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: come out and said that they're cleaning the data or

933
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: whatever to reflect that one hundred and twenty year olds, etc.

934
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: Are not getting it. I mean, that's one of those

935
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: where I'm like, Okay, thanks, Like I didn't know that

936
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: was a huge problem in my life and in the

937
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: government right because there wasn't there was a lot of

938
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: money that was so like, yeah, I'm not I'm not

939
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 1: saying that the US government is not archaic, doesn't use

940
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: as stupid systems, doesn't need database, et cetera. But I mean,

941
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: I'm not a political genius. I would just say screwing

942
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: with old people's money or making it more difficult to

943
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,760
Speaker 1: get with them seems like a bad idea just in general. Yeah.

944
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: In fact, what you would want to do is to

945
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: be a very easy way for dose become much more

946
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: popular would be to roll out or implement something that

947
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,280
Speaker 1: makes it way easier to get access to your Social

948
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: security Yeah, I will say, though it's not that fricking hard.

949
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: I actually went I myself. I don't know if you've

950
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: ever done this. I once logged into my Social Security account.

951
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: I be like, I wonder how much money I'm going

952
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: to have, you know, whenever I'm old, just inflation adjusted.

953
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: It's not that difficult to set up. So I will

954
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: say that that's my only my last swipe at the

955
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,720
Speaker 1: at the elderly. Just ask somebody and you could figure

956
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:52,720
Speaker 1: it out.

957
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:55,919
Speaker 2: I want a base on this, but I will say

958
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,760
Speaker 2: that the experts indicate that for some people, you literally

959
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 2: this online system doesn't work. So you're right though, if

960
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 2: you know, in the idealized, hypothetical version of DOGE, in

961
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 2: which they're actually interested in efficiency and not just like

962
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 2: an ideological project to consolidate power for Elon Musk and

963
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 2: his billionaire buddies. In the hypothetical version of DOGE, they

964
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 2: would look at that and say, well, we got to

965
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 2: fix that. Right, everybody should be able to get access

966
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 2: to social security online. It should be straightforward and easy,

967
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 2: and then that eases the burdens on the field offices.

968
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 2: And then maybe we can cut the fat and trim

969
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 2: some of these field offices because they're just not needed

970
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 2: as much. Maybe we can trim the phone lines after

971
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 2: we get a new system that allows people to enroll

972
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 2: in this way, that's like super easy. But of course

973
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 2: you want to maintain the phone lines at least to

974
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 2: some extent, so that some people who struggle or don't

975
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 2: have internet access or whatever can get access. But that's

976
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 2: not what we're talking about here. I mean, it just

977
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 2: becomes very plain that there's an ideological vendetta against social security.

978
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 2: They realize it's a political problem to say we're cutting

979
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 2: social security, and so instead they're making it impossible for

980
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 2: some people to be able to access it. And then

981
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 2: with regard to the cleaning the data, we may have

982
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 2: some potential fallout from that cleaning of the data where

983
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 2: some people are getting kicked off who are rightful beneficiaries.

984
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 2: We could put this up on the screen. There have

985
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 2: been two news reports thus far. You've got one person

986
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,760
Speaker 2: who was marked dead but is very much alive.

987
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 3: You could see him pictured here.

988
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 2: It was hell on earth for him to be able

989
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 2: to This one is extraordinary because they actually went into

990
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 2: his account and clawed back some five thousand dollars that

991
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 2: he was right had rightfully received through Social Security because

992
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 2: they marked him dead. Perhaps as part of this quote

993
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 2: unquote data cleaning, they're actually you know, revoking some people

994
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 2: who are rightful beneficiaries. He tried calling the phone lines.

995
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 2: There were hours upon hours wits because they are flooded

996
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 2: and they have cut back on staff, so they're understaffed.

997
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 2: They're flooded with calls right now, probably from other people

998
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 2: who've been marked dead, and whatever goes to the field office,

999
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,760
Speaker 2: the line is out the door. Hours of wait there

1000
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 2: before he can finally talk to someone and figure it

1001
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 2: out and get it fixed. But even then he still

1002
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 2: has these like lingering effets, because once the government marks

1003
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 2: you as dead, it creates all sorts of problems. Your

1004
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 2: bank assumes you're dead, your credit card issuers assume you're dead, like,

1005
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 2: all sorts of problems that he's now going to have

1006
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 2: to deal with. The other one just put it back

1007
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 2: up on the screen there for one more second. The

1008
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 2: other one, the benefits weren't clawed out of his account,

1009
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 2: but normally his Medicare payment comes directly on of his

1010
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 2: Social Security check, so he gets a notice. This is

1011
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 2: a man who lives in Oklahoma City gets a notice

1012
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 2: from Medicare of like, oh, you know, we're not getting

1013
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 2: your payment. So he's like, okay, well, what's going on here?

1014
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 2: So he goes on looks and finds that he has

1015
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 2: is also been kicked off of Social Security, is not

1016
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 2: getting the benefits that he is entitled to receive. He

1017
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 2: thinks it's because he was actually born his dad served

1018
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 2: in the military. He was born overseas on a military

1019
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 2: base in Germany. Now that, of course he's still an

1020
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 2: American citizen, like being born on an American military base

1021
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 2: means you were born in America, etc. But he thinks

1022
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 2: that's what caused him to be marked as you know,

1023
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 2: probably like a fraudulent beneficiary or whatever, because some idiot

1024
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 2: saw that he was born in Germany and just assume

1025
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,439
Speaker 2: that meant that he wasn't entitled to these benefits. That's

1026
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 2: his theory of what's going on here. But if you

1027
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 2: start to see more and more of these rightful beneficiaries

1028
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 2: just getting kicked off, these two individuals were lucky that

1029
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 2: they were financially secure enough that this was not their

1030
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 2: entire income, but given the time it took to resolve,

1031
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 2: and the fact that those five thousand dollars were clawed

1032
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 2: on the account. Like if this was someone who this

1033
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 2: was their sole source of income and they were entirely

1034
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 2: dependent on this would have caused a massive, massive financial

1035
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 2: disaster for an elderly person for no reason. So those

1036
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 2: are some of the things that are starting to happen here,

1037
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 2: you know, to get to the political fallout, this looks

1038
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 2: to be one of the biggest pain points and fears

1039
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 2: and concerns that has been incited by the Trump administration overall.

1040
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,720
Speaker 2: Indulged in particular, could put this up on the screen.

1041
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:15,280
Speaker 2: This was the line at a town hall for Chuck Edwards,

1042
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 2: Republican congressperson in Asheville, North Carolina. This person says there

1043
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 2: were seventeen hundred and seventy people lined up for this

1044
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 2: town hall. The space holds around four hundred. There were

1045
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:33,359
Speaker 2: some extraordinary images and outraged constituents who were filmed at

1046
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 2: that town hall. I think that's the one where a

1047
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 2: veteran was yelling at him and got escorted out, etc.

1048
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:40,879
Speaker 2: But the very first question put the next hair shade

1049
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 2: up on the screen. The very first question at that

1050
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 2: town hall had to do with social security benefits. The

1051
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 2: first questionnaire said, would he ensure the protection of our

1052
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 2: social security benefits? And apparently the room erupted in applause.

1053
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 2: They also have to impost tracks another town hall with

1054
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 2: a Michig Republican where some of the of the thirteen

1055
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 2: questions that this representative took, nine were related to social security.

1056
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 2: In a nearby mid Michigan district, they say that was

1057
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 2: among the most competitive US House races last year. A

1058
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 2: poll taken at the beginning of first term GP Rep.

1059
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 2: Tom Barrett's telephone town hall showed social security and medicare

1060
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 2: as the top issue for attendees. So this is a

1061
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 2: major political fault line, and they are trying to use

1062
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 2: backdoor methods to cut this program without coming out and

1063
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 2: saying we are cutting the program. But people are wising

1064
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 2: up to what.

1065
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 3: Is going on.

1066
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Ashville is very liberal area, but still

1067
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: I mean it's one of those where.

1068
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 3: They've got a Republican congressman and they can't be that liberal.

1069
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: It's I think it's one of those very gerrymanner districts

1070
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 1: if I recall big But anyway, look, you don't want

1071
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: it no matter where you are. If people are liberal,

1072
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: whether they're Republican, if they're old, you don't want to

1073
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: be hearing this and there, you know, aside from the

1074
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: Israel lobby, the only other lobby that you don't ever

1075
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: want to mess with in Washington is what aar and

1076
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 1: I can guarantee you that if you start coming and

1077
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 1: stories like that start to go viral on Boom or Facebook,

1078
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,240
Speaker 1: you're gonna have yourself a real problem on your hands.

1079
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: Senator Chuck Schumer, he's canceling a bunch of established book

1080
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: events citing security concerns, even though there's no evidence of that.

1081
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: In reality, he just doesn't want to face any tough questions.

1082
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: John Stewart, as always sounding off. Let's take a listen.

1083
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 3: Did Schumer get anything from Republicans in exchange for those

1084
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 3: dumb boats?

1085
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 1: He did not.

1086
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 5: Senator Schumer, no disrespect, but you are a disgrace to

1087
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 5: Jewish stereotypes about financial negotiations.

1088
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 3: You're going to keep out it.

1089
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 9: Keep at it, keep out it, keep pat it at what.

1090
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 3: This was it?

1091
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 5: This was the it that you would have been keeping

1092
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 5: at the keeping of the it.

1093
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 4: It's not the keeping of it.

1094
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 1: That's the issue, it's what.

1095
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 9: The it don't you have to start it to keep

1096
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 9: at it.

1097
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 1: If this wasn't it, then.

1098
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 3: It's what is it?

1099
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 4: If this not be it?

1100
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 5: But apparently the grand plan is Dems keep fecklessly complaining

1101
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 5: until the forty eight approval comes down to forty which

1102
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 5: is a plan, but it's forgetting one crucial piece of

1103
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 5: information in Schumer's popularity.

1104
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 10: Calculation, devastating cascading poll numbers for Democrats. Only twenty seven

1105
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 10: percent of voters have a positive view of the party,

1106
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 10: the lowest favorability rating in the history of NBC's polling.

1107
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 9: You're a twenty five person, You've got to get Trump

1108
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 9: to lose eight points of popularity just for you to

1109
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 9: get to the point where you're thirteen points below him.

1110
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: Thirteen points below he shredded him as only Stuart Kenny

1111
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: did a good job. Yeah, I mean it's one of

1112
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: those with Schumer his I just don't get what is

1113
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: going on on a policy level. I genuinely do understand it.

1114
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: As I said, They're like, look, if we shut the

1115
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 1: government down, then Elon and Trump will get to decide

1116
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: who's essential or not essential. Let's actually pretty good argument.

1117
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 1: But the issue is that it just is all couched

1118
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: for Schumer in this like in this sense of he's

1119
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: trying to pretend that he's standing up for Trump, but

1120
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 1: he's also not even dispositionally planning anything months ahead of time.

1121
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 1: Like if we had come to this outcome, I think

1122
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: with the liberal planning for you know, two months or

1123
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 1: so before this, and this still is how we ended up.

1124
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: But at least people would say, Okay, we thought we

1125
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: tried this, we extracted concession. It would be a very

1126
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: very different scenario. But here especial, as they got caught

1127
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: flat footed. Now they look like idiots. And then even worse,

1128
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: Schumer is now doing what they're accusing Republicans are doing,

1129
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: which is hiding from angry constituents. Right, you're a hypocrite.

1130
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 3: Oh you're not buying his security concerns. Come.

1131
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing is he's just he provoked

1132
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 2: a mass liberal, moderate progressive, like whole of party backlash.

1133
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 2: I think he's got madgal asis on his side. And

1134
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 2: that's about it at this point, because across the board

1135
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 2: they want to see people fight. This is the only

1136
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 2: moment when you have leverage. You have known that for

1137
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 2: months to come. Where was the plan? Where was the fight?

1138
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 2: I mean to me, we played this on the Friday

1139
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 2: Show and Zagery probably saw it too. Chris Hayes laughing

1140
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 2: in his face, Oh yes, yeah. When he says basically

1141
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 2: like we got to fight him at every step, and

1142
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 2: he's like, what are you talking about? You're literally here

1143
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 2: on my show. This is not how he frees it,

1144
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 2: but this is how went in my head. You're literally

1145
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 2: here on my show to announce your intention to not fight,

1146
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 2: so fight every step of the way, Like where is

1147
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 2: the fight? Where is this theoretical fight? And so I

1148
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 2: think there are in my estimation, three things going on

1149
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 2: with Chuck Schumer. Number one, he's old as an outdated

1150
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 2: mental model about politics. He thinks this is all just

1151
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 2: like politics as usual. Shutdowns are bad, like he's still

1152
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 2: operating on a mental model from circle let's say nineteen

1153
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 2: eighty four. I think that's number one. I think number two,

1154
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 2: that idiotic James Carvell op ed in the New York

1155
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 2: Times that instructed Democrats to lay down and play dead

1156
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 2: and let Trump make his own mess and not make

1157
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 2: any sort of affirmative case against him or fight him

1158
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 2: in any way. I think that Carvell and others actually

1159
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 2: buy into that, which is idiotic, the polar opposite of

1160
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 2: the way that Republicans have effectively fought Democrats whatever Democrats

1161
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 2: get any semblance of power. So I think that's part

1162
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 2: of it. And number three, Yeah, I do think the

1163
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 2: fact that it was Chuck Schumer and Kirsten jelibrand the

1164
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 2: two senators from New York who led the charge to

1165
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 2: cave at a time when Wall Street was very on edge.

1166
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:53,919
Speaker 2: Stock market went on down a lot last week. We're

1167
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 2: worried what our stocks might do if the government shuts

1168
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 2: down for a period of time. Yeah, I don't think

1169
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 2: that that is an accident when you look at the

1170
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 2: fact that both of those centers senators drive a lot

1171
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 2: of their power and their campaign contributions from Wall Street

1172
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 2: to like, I don't think it's a conspiracy theory to

1173
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:12,520
Speaker 2: say they would have been responsive to those concerns and

1174
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:14,959
Speaker 2: that it's not an accent that those two that.

1175
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 3: Ultimately lead the charge here.

1176
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, New York Times even skeptical of him on

1177
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 2: his strategy here, but they also asked him so his

1178
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 2: book tour is supposed to be about this whole like,

1179
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 2: you know, anti Semitism thing, and he was supposed to

1180
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 2: have his first event with Richie Torres, etc. And they

1181
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 2: asked him about, well, you know, isn't it legitimate to

1182
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 2: criticize Israel? And isn't it legitimate even the UN body

1183
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 2: has suggested that these were genocidal acts. Take a listen

1184
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 2: to what he had to say in response.

1185
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,439
Speaker 4: Hummas made it much to and no one blames him us.

1186
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 4: I mean, the news reports every day for a while

1187
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 4: showed Palestinians being hurt and killed. And you know, I

1188
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 4: see the pictures of a little Palestinian boy without a

1189
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 4: leg where I saw one sticks in my head. There

1190
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 4: was a little girl like eleven twelve crime because her

1191
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 4: parents were both killed. I ache for that, But on

1192
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 4: the news reports they never mentioned that. So much of

1193
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 4: the time Hamas used the Palestinian people as human shields.

1194
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 4: And so when these protesters come and accuse Israel of

1195
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 4: genocide and said what about Hamas, they don't even want

1196
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 4: to talk about Hamas again. Genocide is a vicious, vicious

1197
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 4: word to use.

1198
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 6: I will say it's a word that a UN special

1199
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 6: committee has used police.

1200
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 4: The UN has been anti Israel, anti semitically, against Israel,

1201
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 4: double standard. Moynihan was my idol. He became famous when

1202
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy six they tried to pass the resolution

1203
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 4: Zionism is racism. To say that the Jewish people should

1204
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 4: not have a state when every other people should have

1205
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 4: a state is anti semitism. The old double standard ipso

1206
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:03,439
Speaker 4: fact dope, and the international organizations. I have no faith

1207
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 4: in them being fair.

1208
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 2: I mean I get spend an hour disia like there

1209
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 2: is nothing like, there's nothing wrong proposing at no states.

1210
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 3: Number one. Number two.

1211
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 2: His claim is that the news reports are too pro Hamas,

1212
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 2: Like have you read these news reports the way that

1213
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 2: they twist and turn themselves and tie themselves into knots

1214
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 2: to avoid laying any responsibility for the mass slaughter of

1215
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 2: women and children and non combats and innocent civilians and

1216
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 2: starving them. I mean, Israel's currently starving them, has institute

1217
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 2: of a complete siege.

1218
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 3: And the way these news reports.

1219
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 2: Seek to avoid laying any blame and responsibility isn't okay.

1220
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 2: So to claim that they're too pro Hama, that's insane.

1221
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 2: Not to mention his whole thing about like, oh, people

1222
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 2: never want to talk about Hamas and how they're using

1223
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 2: them for human You know why the focus of the

1224
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 2: protests is is our government is funding Israel, we are

1225
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 2: not funding Hamma. So yes, we take a great interest

1226
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,440
Speaker 2: in the way that we are sending bombs to a

1227
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 2: country that is dropping them on top of innocent civilians.

1228
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 2: I think that's reasonable. And then the claim O, you know,

1229
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 2: genocide is anti Semitic and the un is Hamas like

1230
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 2: just it's just you can't make it up, like it's

1231
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 2: he hits every single note. And I almost have to say,

1232
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 2: Sagart like to insist that the one of the largest

1233
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 2: problems that the country faces right now is the scourge

1234
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 2: of anti Semitism, like there is no evidence to back

1235
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 2: that up, and to the extent, and I think it's

1236
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 2: probably true that anti Semitism has spiked. Perhaps it has

1237
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 2: to do with people like you who are constantly tying

1238
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 2: all Jewish people to the actions of a state that

1239
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 2: is currently starving and bombing babies. Maybe that has something

1240
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 2: to do with the spike, alleged spike in anti Semitic sentiment.

1241
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: It's a moral panic complete it's that you change the

1242
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 1: definition of anti semitism to include criticism of Israel. Than sure,

1243
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 1: anti Semitism is a huge problem, but if you're talking

1244
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 1: about actual hatred of Jews. It's ridiculous. This idea that

1245
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 1: there are literally like raving, roving gangs of anti Semites

1246
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 1: across America is so preposterous. And beyond that, you're obviously

1247
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 1: watching how many of these Jewish students themselves are called

1248
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: anti Semitics. So the whole thing, you know, by by

1249
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 1: Schumer's own standard, a lot of these Jews are anti Semitic,

1250
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: which I love watching people twist and turn in the

1251
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 1: wind on that one. But yeah, you're absolutely right. It's

1252
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: complete and total false moral panic, and it is one

1253
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 1: used to basically use the legacy of that from the

1254
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 1: past to bring this insane you know, censorship and dialogue,

1255
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 1: you know, restricting dialogue here in America to create a

1256
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 1: political environment that is beneficial for a foreign government. And

1257
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: you put it that way, that's when people start to

1258
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 1: get real quiet and real uncomfortable.

1259
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

1260
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 1: Alright, Okay, great counterpoint show for everybody tomorrow. We'll see

1261
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 1: you all then,