1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Body bats, but Joseph's gotten more. 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 2: I'm not much of a partygoer. It's something where I think, 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 2: even as a young man, I wasn't much of a partygoer. 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 2: I went, you know, most of the time out of 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 2: obligation from most soires, if you will. But I hate 6 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: being trapped in locations and not being able to free 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 2: myself of it. And some people list more toward that 8 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: social interaction. It's never really been my thing. But I 9 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: got to tell you there's two cases, they're both married, conjoined, 10 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: if you will, of two young women who had set 11 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 2: out to go to a party, a celebratory party with 12 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 2: family members back in nineteen eighty six. And there's a 13 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 2: photograph that was taken of them at this party, and 14 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 2: they're together, shouldered to shoulder, smiling, eyes glowing. You could 15 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 2: tell that they enjoyed one another's company. But what you 16 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: couldn't tell was that that would be the last photograph 17 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: ever taken of them in life. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 18 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:46,559 Speaker 2: and this is bodybacks. Dave mac You're a good friend. 19 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: For those that don't know, I've came out of the holidays, 20 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: came out of the Christmas holidays in New Year's and 21 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: the world kind of changed for me. 22 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: A little while. Joe, as we begin, it is great 23 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: to be doing that. I told you right before we started. 24 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be doing this today. What y'all 25 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: don't know is that Joe has been You've been treated 26 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: for a lower back problem for about the last six 27 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: months and it has gotten progressively worse. You've tried a 28 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: number of things, and after the holidays, this was a 29 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: continuation of that treatment, going in to have a treatment 30 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: done to hopefully really it was getting tough for Joe 31 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: to even sit to do the show, and that was 32 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: We're kind of concerned. I was hoping the holidays would 33 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: give you a bit of a break. But that just 34 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: sets the table to let you guys know where Joseph 35 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan is on the moment. He's headed to the 36 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: doctor and to go get a treatment done at the hospital. Right, 37 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: it was the same day thing. 38 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was the same day thing. It's going to 39 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: be an injection, right hip And on the way there, 40 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: funny thing happened on the way of the form. Yeah, 41 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: so it turned out. You know, some people would say, 42 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 2: I don't know how many people would say that COVID 43 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 2: is a is a blessing. But as it turned out, 44 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: I was feverish, and knowing what I know about the 45 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: same day procedures, if you're feverish, they're not going to 46 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: see you. But I was in excruciating pain, more so 47 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 2: than ever. And it was kind of a banded pain 48 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: in the lower abdomen, which means it kind of, you know, 49 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 2: in circles your entire waste. And as it turned out, 50 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 2: I had super duper appendicider, which my appendix was essentially 51 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: adhere to my posterior abnominal wall and it had also 52 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: wrapped around my small intestine. And so with that said, 53 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: those nerve bundles apparently are in approximate the same area 54 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 2: with the back pain. And so this has been going 55 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 2: on for a long long time, I think, and one 56 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: thing led to another wound up having to have two served. Dave, 57 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: as you all know, because you've you've you've been very 58 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: stalwart with Kim and I and and helped us through 59 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: this process. But yeah, so I'm I'm doing better, and 60 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: I'd like to thank all of our listeners for the 61 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: prayers and that have been aware of this. Nancy's put 62 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: some stuff out I think, but yeah, I'm on the men. 63 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 2: But it has been it has been a grind. It 64 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: has warned me down to an oven. Uh. But you 65 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: know the thing about it, Dave, is that it's a 66 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 2: pure joy. You know, when you you're able to return 67 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 2: to that thing that you love and that you do 68 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: and and I've I've had a lot of contemplative time, 69 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 2: if you will, And still the one thing I returned 70 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 2: to and among all of this is that, Yeah, it 71 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 2: was scary, uh, particularly in the face of having to 72 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: have two surgeries, not just one. But you know what, Dave, 73 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 2: I still have my life. And these poor, poor, poor 74 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: people that we discuss, and the forensics surrounding their deaths, 75 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: that opportunity is no longer there. They have been robbed 76 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: of life. And of course that's the case with Jennifer 77 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 2: Dewey and Michelle Xavier today. And I think that this 78 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: is apropos. I'm glad that we're getting to start off 79 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: with this case to tell the story, because it's obviously 80 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 2: a very sad story, Dave. But you know, this case 81 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 2: occurred back in nineteen eighty six, and Dave's through through 82 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: science it had been a cold case, but through science 83 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: it finally came to an investigative conclusion in twenty sixteen, 84 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 2: and now now we have someone who has actually been 85 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 2: held accountable in these two precious souls lives are the 86 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 2: loss of their lives. And that's a joyoush thing in 87 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: a very sad, sad situation. 88 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: You mentioned about going to a party, and by the way, 89 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 1: just one very quick thing. As you are recovering, you know, 90 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: your voice will get stronger as you get stronger, and 91 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: you know, I just I'm so thankful. So many people 92 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 1: have reached out asking about you, and a lot of 93 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: our friends that we know have reached out to me 94 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: because they didn't want to bother you and Kim, and 95 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: I articulated that with you that you know, I kind 96 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: of became a spokesperson for Joe. 97 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 2: You know, our point of contact. 98 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that way, and I was able to keep 99 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: everybody informed because they truly care about you, man, they 100 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: really do. 101 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: So thank you now, and thank you to all our friends. 102 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: In this particular case, this young they're eighteen and twenty 103 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: years old, these girls, and they're going to a dinner party, 104 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: you know, with friends and excited about it. And you know, 105 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: this is one of those things where they were at 106 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: the dinner party, and they left, and they are seen 107 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: together at ten fifteen at night at a comedience store. Yes, 108 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: now they're seen together at ten fifteen, healthy, happy, just goofing, 109 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,119 Speaker 1: but they have no idea of knowing that two hours 110 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: and fifteen minutes later, their bodies are going to be found. 111 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: Not the girls, their bodies. And I was looking at 112 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: this timeline and trying to figure out how we got 113 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: from the convenience store to where their bodies were in 114 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: two hours and fifteen minutes. This is two women. And 115 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: we're not talking two old women. We're not talking about 116 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: children either. We are talking about two young adults in health, 117 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: you know, in good shape. And I am mystified, yeah, 118 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: as to how this could take place that quickly, and 119 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: what actually happened to these two girls after they left 120 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: that convenience store. 121 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: Well, you know, the fascinating thing about this case, Dave, 122 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: is that they had gotten together. They'd been invited that 123 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 2: night to in February, February second, by the way of 124 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty And this isn't I have a hard time 125 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: because I have a hard time with California geography, but 126 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 2: it's it's in Fremont, California. Their bodies were technically found 127 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: I believe in Dublin, California, which is not too far 128 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 2: away and it's on an isolated bit of road. But 129 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: back back to the events of that night. You know, 130 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: both Jennifer and Michelle I found this kind of interesting 131 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 2: had both been stood up by their boyfriends. They were 132 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: supposed to have been with them that night, and of 133 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 2: course they weren't. And they had attended this party and 134 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 2: it's cold out and you know, people think about sunny 135 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: California and that sort of thing. 136 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: We're talkingbou February, California. 137 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is northern California. This is just and correct 138 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong, Dave. But this is like just 139 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 2: to the west of the Bay Area, so you're out 140 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: of Inland. And you know, when you see that the 141 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 2: photograph that I mentioned, you can tell that they're they're 142 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 2: wrapped up. You know, they're wearing flannel. Uh, they've got 143 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 2: layers of clothes on them, but they're all dulled up. 144 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: You know, their hair looks looks great, they have their 145 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 2: makeup on. They were going out to enjoy themselves. And 146 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 2: that is that is the amazing thing here, how they 147 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: could be it could be known that they would be 148 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 2: at a convenience store and then poof, they're gone like 149 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 2: dust in the wind. You don't you know, you have 150 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: no accounting for where they could go and how. This 151 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: is the thing that always amazes me about cases like this, 152 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 2: not that they're not tragic to have one person disappear, 153 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 2: but Dave, we're talking to two two young women who 154 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: are healthy. Who what would you have to do in 155 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: order to sucker them in so the you could get 156 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 2: them into a compromise position, so that you could do 157 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 2: what is arguably what's arguably one of the most vile 158 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 2: things that you could do to a fellow human being, 159 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 2: and not just in life, but in death as well. 160 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 2: And we see that in the disrespecting of their moral remains. 161 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: When you look at where where they were in terms 162 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: of the dinner party and where their bodies were found, 163 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: it was about a twenty eight mile stretch there. And 164 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: do we know obviously it happened after ten fifteen. Do 165 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: you think they were abducted from that convenience store parking 166 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,479 Speaker 1: lot or do you think maybe there was a stranded 167 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: car set up on the side of the road to 168 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: attract some good Samaritan into stopping at night. I mean, 169 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: do we have any kind of clue on what had happened, 170 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: how they came in contact with the person who would 171 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: take their lives. 172 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that we could say the word abducted, 173 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 2: but I think that one of the things that has 174 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 2: to occur prior to abduction is enticement. Okay, And so 175 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 2: you would have to have a predator, which I think 176 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 2: that in this case we could and we'll get to 177 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 2: him in just a moment, but that we could certainly 178 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 2: identify the subject as a predator that would be lying 179 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 2: and wait and he is And you know, Daved, I'm 180 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 2: thinking this isolated area. It's not like if you have 181 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 2: a bundane who would go to college campuses and stock 182 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 2: women that fit a type, you know what I'm saying, 183 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: where you could kind of call them out in some way. 184 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 2: In this particular case, you're at a convenience store. You 185 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: have no idea who's going to come and go at 186 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: a convenience store at any point in time. And that's 187 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 2: what makes this so chilling. How many times have you 188 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 2: pulled up at a convenience store or maybe you've taken 189 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 2: the exit late at night because you've got to get gas, 190 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: and it might be the last place you're going to 191 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 2: make get gas. Have you ever had that moment, you know, 192 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 2: where the hair just kind of stands up on the 193 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: back of your neck? You know, I know it's happened 194 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 2: to me multiple times, and so and of course I 195 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: go nowhere unprotected. I'll put it to you though way. 196 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 2: And so even in those circumstances, you arrive in an 197 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 2: area where you're thinking this is not this might not 198 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: be one of the best decisions I've ever made in 199 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 2: my life. Then you begin to think about profiling the 200 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 2: victims and the victimology that comes into this, and this 201 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: is certainly something that we study in academia. And you 202 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 2: begin to think about, well, or are they familiar with 203 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 2: this particular convenience store, Why this particular convenience store? What 204 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: is it about this one that drew them in? Did 205 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 2: it commonly? Did they commonly gas up? Top off? There 206 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 2: is it a place where they might walk in to 207 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 2: buy a pack of cigarettes, to get a stick of gum, 208 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 2: whatever the case might be. They felt comfortable because I've 209 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 2: you know, I've been around enough convenience stores. There were 210 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: over the course of my career, particularly on the street. 211 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: There were somewhere I could walk in at one o'clock 212 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 2: in the morning and I wouldn't know the name of 213 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 2: the person behind the counter, because it is the only 214 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 2: thing that was open. And I might even stand there 215 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 2: and drink cup of coffee and just stand while I 216 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 2: was on duty, you know, before I went on to 217 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 2: the next thing, I went back to my office. So 218 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 2: did they have a familiarity? And this is where evil 219 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 2: intersects with innocence, because if conversely, if you have two 220 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 2: victims that perhaps are very familiar with a location like this, 221 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 2: that means that this purveyor of evil also had a 222 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 2: certain level of familiarity. They knew a place that they 223 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 2: could go and hide in the shadows. They knew that 224 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 2: place where they would not draw attention until the last 225 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 2: second when they sprung themselves on these poor innocence. I 226 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 2: can remember many times of the course of my life 227 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 2: where I've driven through the dark, particularly out in the countryside. 228 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: And not that interstates are not have a certain level 229 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 2: of foreboding to them, but there's something about traveling down 230 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: a two lane road out in the middle of long 231 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: these long, long stretches, and all you have is company 232 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: or the ditches on either side of the road or 233 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 2: the fence post. You often wonder what's on the other 234 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 2: side of the fence post or what's lying in the ditch. 235 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 2: And Dave, my understanding is is that when both Jennifer 236 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 2: and Michelle's remains were found, they happened to be found 237 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 2: by a motorcyclist that happened to be going down the road. 238 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 2: And can you imagine, and you and I have covered 239 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: over the years, we've covered any number of cases where 240 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 2: where people have just found individuals, and Lord have mercy, 241 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: what this poor individual was the first to behold is 242 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: something of just absolute nightmare. David. 243 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: It was twelve thirty in the morning when the motorcyclist 244 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: finds comes across the bodies. So two hours and fifteen 245 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: minutes from the time they're smiling in the Communion store 246 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: to the time where their lifeless bodies are found on 247 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: the side of the road. Now, if you're riding motorcyclists 248 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: twelve thirty at night, I'm wondering how they were seen. 249 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: I guess it's kind of you know, because it was 250 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: told to that as if they were in a remote 251 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: area alongside of Mill Creek Road a little more than 252 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: a mile east of Mission Boulevard naked, and in this 253 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: particular case, both a gun and a knife are used. 254 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: And I have to wonder was there more than one 255 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: person involved in the murmant? 256 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've thought about that as well. But can 257 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: I tell you something about human skin in the dark. Yeah, 258 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:09,959 Speaker 2: it's very fascinating that how how reflective the human body 259 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 2: is nude in the dark when light hits it. Okay, 260 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 2: And I was thinking about, you know what you just 261 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 2: said about the motorcyclist, and let's just say, let's just 262 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 2: assume you know, they're riding you know, a bike that's 263 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: it doesn't have a big bank of lights on it, 264 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 2: you know, like some gigantic Harley. You know, it's got 265 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 2: like three lights across the front, a single a single 266 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 2: headlight that's illuminating the road. And depended upon the angle 267 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 2: at which you turn, you know, turn the handlebars to 268 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 2: direct the bike, you're going to catch glimpses of things, 269 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 2: and you know, going down the road and your your 270 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 2: head lights strike something that's like this. Now, I don't know. 271 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 2: I don't think in Fremont, California, they necessarily get a 272 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 2: lot of snow, so you're not going to have like 273 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 2: this reflectivity, and if you see something that's stark white 274 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 2: like this, like these two young women would have appeared, 275 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 2: it would be something that was quite eye catching. And 276 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 2: I think that that adds a certain level of horror 277 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 2: to this as well. You know, and I know I've 278 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 2: commented on this in the past, but it's like you 279 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 2: do the double take where you say, wait, your brain 280 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 2: is trying to catch up and you're trying to say, wait, 281 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: what did I just see? And how many times have 282 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 2: I mentioned, you know where I've interviewed witnesses where they 283 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 2: have said, you know, my first thought was it was 284 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 2: a mannequin, because your brain does not want I think 285 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 2: that your humanity does not want you to say that 286 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 2: you know that this is a fellow human being and 287 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 2: not just a singular but two now, so this is 288 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 2: compounded for this individual. I can guarantee you that if 289 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 2: this witnesses find still alive, this is something that will 290 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 2: haunt them until the day they died. 291 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: You know, I saw you. I saw a dead body 292 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: on the side of the road one time that had 293 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: been shot and it was in a remote area, a 294 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: country area. I'm driving down the road and I see 295 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: what appeared to be a moped on the side of 296 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: the road tipped over. But I had been see a 297 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: person on the ground, blue jeans and kind of a 298 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: burgundy overcoat because it was wintertime, but there was skin 299 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: that I could see because of how he had fallen, 300 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: and I thought mannaquin. I didn't realize that till right 301 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: now when you said that that was my first thought 302 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: was mannequin. And that was just one person, you know, 303 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: in late in the day. 304 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 2: It's a defense mechanism. I'm almost I'm almost certain of it. 305 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 2: The defense. Yeah, and I think another default position we 306 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 2: have is animal, right, but you know, there's nothing that 307 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 2: has that anthropomorphic appearance that we do, you know when 308 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 2: you look out there. You know, So when this individual 309 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 2: found on the remains of Jennifer and Michelle, I'm sure 310 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 2: that the first thing that caught their eye was obviously 311 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 2: that they're completely new. One other piece to this that's 312 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 2: quite chilling was that that you remember how I mentioned 313 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 2: the fence line just a second ago. As it turns out, 314 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 2: when the police arrive at the scene, Dave, did your 315 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 2: mama did your mama ever dry clothes outside? 316 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: Oh? 317 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know my wife Actually she's begging 318 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 2: for me to put up clothesline. And there's just something 319 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: about it, right, the freshness of it. And you know, 320 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 2: and Dave, Jennifer and Michelle's clothing, their underwear and their 321 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 2: external clothing were hung on the fence, on the barb 322 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 2: wire fence above their bodies. Now, none of their personal 323 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 2: items were found, like pocketbooks, none of that was found, 324 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 2: but their clothing was strung about on that link, the 325 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 2: barbed wire above their bodies. And I really wonder, you know, 326 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,959 Speaker 2: you come to think of it, now, did the motorcyclists 327 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 2: catch sight of the clothing or was it the bodies 328 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 2: that were there? You know, what is it? But you know, 329 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 2: the cops made note of that when they arrived at 330 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 2: the scene. And we can learn a lot about the 331 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 2: nature or the dynamic of a crime scene by the 332 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 2: way the bodies are treated, you know, in the post 333 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 2: mortem state. First off, you're talking about what they say, 334 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 2: I've seen ditch and I've seen side of road. So 335 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 2: we have to assume because of water runoff, that the 336 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 2: road down alongside that the ditch or the area alongside 337 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 2: the road is going to be slightly depressed, right for runoff, 338 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 2: And did it rise to the occasion where the bodies 339 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 2: were very pronounced. But we can learn a lot about 340 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 2: this because when you think about the convenience, if you will, 341 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 2: of what a perpetrator is doing with human remains when 342 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 2: they essentially take them and roll them out of a 343 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 2: vehicle or pull them out of vehicle and then lay 344 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 2: them out or stack them, stack the remains, which does 345 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 2: happen sometimes. But then they go to the trouble of 346 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 2: taking the clothing and hanging it on the barbed wire, 347 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 2: because that it's an interesting combination as far as I'm concerned. 348 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: Why not just wade the clothing up and throw it down. 349 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 2: Why not take it away with you and throw it, 350 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 2: throw it out of the window down the road. But no, 351 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 2: you've got clothing that has left immediately adjacent to the 352 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 2: bodies hanging on the barbed wire with you know, immediately 353 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 2: adjacent to Michelle in Jennifer's remains. I know that the 354 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 2: police this is not an area where you would have 355 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 2: this type of thing happened, you know where that would 356 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 2: rise to this level just in this isolated location. It's 357 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 2: not like you're going into a neighborhood where you have 358 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 2: a stalker that's walking through a neighborhood, and they're killing women, 359 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 2: you know, that are located in a particular in a 360 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 2: particular neighborhood. I worked a series of homicides in Atlanta. 361 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 2: I think they were called the Vine City Vine City strangulations, 362 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 2: and they were elderly women that were all killed in 363 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 2: the Vine City area of Atlanta where they were killed, 364 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 2: and they were elderly ladies. They met a specific demographic 365 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: and they were killed primarily in their homes. And that's 366 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 2: a place of isolation and protect Dave. That's not what 367 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 2: we're talking about here. 368 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: Right now, Joe, when I want to back up to something, 369 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: because their bodies are found six miles from where Xavier's 370 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: car was recovered. 371 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 2: Yes, Xavier's cart a Pontiac Sunburn. 372 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was it was parked in a shopping center. 373 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,640 Speaker 1: And that's why I'm kind of stuck on. Okay, we've 374 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: I'm just going with what we actually know in terms 375 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: of ten to fifteen. They're at the convenience store, smiling, 376 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: laughing movement, and then her car, you know, they wind 377 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: up being found dead two and a half two hours 378 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes later. But her car is parked six miles 379 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: away in a shopping center, so they had to have 380 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: interacted with their killer at some point between the convenience 381 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 1: store and parking the car and the shopping center. Yeah, 382 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: and I do you think the clothes were taken off 383 00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: before or after they were murdered. 384 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 2: That's an excellent question. I would think that first off, 385 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 2: with gunshot wounds, which we know that one of the 386 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:19,719 Speaker 2: victims actually actually Jennifer met her in with gunshot ones, 387 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 2: one of the things that we do at autopsy is 388 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 2: is if we have clothing, we will examine both the 389 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 2: injuries to the torso and I'm talking about the physical body, 390 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 2: and then examine the clothing as well. That the clothing 391 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 2: comes in separate, Okay, because for instance, if you have 392 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 2: a nude body and you have clothing that is adjacent, 393 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 2: you're still going to thoroughly examine the clothing see if 394 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 2: it has any bullet hole defects in it, and to 395 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: see if those areas marry up. You know. With this now, 396 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 2: when we're talking about the other victim, she has died 397 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 2: as a result of throat being slit, which is a 398 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: very very personal thing. I mean, you're talking about a 399 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 2: gulf of difference between gunshot wounds and and something where 400 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 2: you're talking about dragging coal still blade over the anterior 401 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 2: aspect of a young woman's throat and gunshot. To me, 402 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 2: when I think about it, there's a term that doesn't 403 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 2: it's not really used frequently now, but it kind of 404 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 2: sums this up where an individual is dispatched, you know, 405 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 2: with gunshot wounds. You think of about someone being dispatched, 406 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 2: which means that it's it's essentially a quick modality of death, 407 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 2: almost like that they had no utility, that the personal 408 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 2: nature of the throat being cut, the intimacy of that. 409 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 2: There's a different type of perception perhaps in this perpetrator's 410 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 2: mind about what, you know, the value that he put 411 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 2: on both of these young women. But touch, that's the 412 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: way we experience the world, isn't it. We sense the 413 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 2: world even when we're babies through our hands. You know, 414 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 2: all of my precious babies I've had, both my children 415 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 2: and my grandchildren. I was fascinated by their hands when 416 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 2: they were little. Would look at them, and of course 417 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 2: I would, particularly with my own children, I would have 418 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,640 Speaker 2: to admonish them all the time about sticking their hands 419 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: in their mouth and putting things in their mouths and 420 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 2: all that sort of thing. But you know, Dave hands 421 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 2: play a critical role in this double homicide. And here's why, 422 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 2: because it's DNA found beneath the fingertips of Jennifer Dewey 423 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 2: and an interesting scribbled little message that was written on 424 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 2: the palm of Michelle Xavier's hand that probably arose from 425 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 2: something that she bore witness to that night, that night 426 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 2: of their deaths. 427 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, do we know who was killed first? Based on 428 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: the forensics, we know one was shot and we know 429 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: one was knifed. Now I would have thought, I would 430 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: just think if you're one person killing two women, it's 431 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: going to be the same type of murder, either both 432 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: shot or both stabbed to death. But in this case, 433 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: we have two women and one is shot to death, 434 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: the other is has their throat slit. Did he run 435 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: out of bullets and you know, and use the knife 436 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: to to slice their throat? I mean, I guess I'm 437 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: having trouble figuring this out, Joe. Where they tied up? 438 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: Was he terrorizing them? Peeling their skin at what was 439 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: going on? 440 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 2: There's no evidence of restraint here, but there is evidence 441 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 2: of rape. Rape for us, we don't just you know, 442 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 2: everybody talks about what you do the rape kit. You 443 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 2: do the rape kit, and you're looking for hair because 444 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 2: we do pubic combings. 445 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 3: And. 446 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 2: Obviously we do do the swabs. Everybody's familiar with the swabs, 447 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 2: and we look for seminal deposition. But there's another thing 448 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 2: that we look for with rape cases, and that is 449 00:29:54,880 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 2: for sexual trauma. Okay, So if you've got an unwilling participant, 450 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 2: they're fighting against this and the individual is is trying 451 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 2: to have penetrative sex with them, you can get little tears, 452 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 2: you can get little contusions. I've seen women that have 453 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 2: been assaulted with foreign objects in order for the perpetrator 454 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:27,719 Speaker 2: to then thustly gain access to them. So that's you know, 455 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 2: it's not I think that people limit themselves to thinking 456 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 2: about crime or rape kits, and that is a big 457 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 2: part of it. But you also look for external trauma, 458 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 2: vational trauma, rectal trauma, that sort of thing, or antal 459 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 2: trauma rather and you know, little tears and contusions and 460 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 2: that sort of thing. But they did have evidence of 461 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 2: rape for both of these women. Now, as far as 462 00:30:53,000 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 2: the trying to pair down the order and will which 463 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 2: Jennifer and Michelle died, I don't know that that is 464 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 2: necessarily possible. However, what is possible is that you could 465 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 2: a forensic pathologist could hold forth on a level of 466 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 2: trauma and the instrument of death that was utilized as 467 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 2: far as how quickly they may have died. Like, if 468 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 2: you've got someone obviously that's shot in the head execution style, 469 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 2: that death is going to be very very quick, okay, 470 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 2: or even maybe a well placed shot in the chest, Okay, 471 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 2: it's going to happen very quickly. The slitting of the throat, though, 472 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 2: is not something that happens quickly. This is a bleeding 473 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 2: out where you know, you've got the blood that's coursing 474 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 2: through the body someone that is being attacked like this 475 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 2: Already there adrenaline is pumping, heart rate is up, and 476 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:03,239 Speaker 2: that might expedite things, but is it's nowhere, like you know, 477 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 2: even close to head trauma, either whether the head is 478 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 2: crushed or whether they are are shot. So yeah, the 479 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 2: cutting of the throat, that would be a slow death. 480 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: Now you mentioned you mentioned writing on the poem We've 481 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: got are we saying? Does it appear the forensic evidence 482 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: shows that one of these ladies was able to be 483 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: alive long enough to make out a partial license plate 484 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: and write it down on the palm of her hand 485 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: while she's dying. 486 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, can you I hate the word. I've come to 487 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 2: hate the word brave nowadays because it's thrown around for 488 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 2: people that don't necessarily deserve to have the brave thrown 489 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 2: their way. I've seen bravery, I've seen attempts at true bravery, 490 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 2: and you've got these people out there will Bravery comes 491 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 2: in all forms. No, it doesn't know, doesn't not when 492 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 2: you're talking about this, Yeah, that that's scribbling on the 493 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 2: hand by Michelle. That turned out to be a partial 494 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 2: license plate number for a motorcycle, Dave, And it was 495 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 2: only partial, So it's not something when all of the 496 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 2: other evidence came in you could go back reflectively and 497 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 2: isn't an amazing Dave? How over years and over time 498 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 2: and we can see this born out in our lives collectively. Right. 499 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 2: You don't get the full picture when you're in the 500 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 2: middle of things, do you, Right. And so when you 501 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 2: you get the full the full view of what these 502 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 2: women went through that night, you see the scope of 503 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 2: this and how in her moments, those moments and we 504 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 2: don't know how close to death she was when this 505 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 2: she had still had the cognitive ability to take a 506 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 2: pen and write down a license plate number, or at 507 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 2: least an attempt to do this in order to remember it, 508 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 2: perhaps maybe holding out hope that she would survive the 509 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,240 Speaker 2: event or maybe. And I don't know that any twenty 510 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 2: or eighteen year old in their life thinks in these 511 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 2: terminal ideas or perceptions where I need to have this 512 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 2: down for posterity so that they can go back and 513 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 2: find this guy after I'm dead. But at any rate, 514 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 2: it was scribbled down, and that's kind of fascinating. I 515 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 2: don't recall a case like this where I've had I 516 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 2: know that it has occurred, but for me personally, where 517 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 2: we've covered it, certainly on bodybacks, I don't remember anything 518 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 2: like this. But you know, with the true biological evidence, 519 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 2: this case occurred, Dave, back in nineteen eighty six, and 520 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 2: you know, I was a very young investigator back then. 521 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,280 Speaker 2: We had none of the DNA technology that exists now. 522 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 2: It was there, but it was you might as well 523 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 2: have been talking about going to Mars. You know, you 524 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 2: knew that it's plausible, but you didn't really know that 525 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 2: it could actually happen, and so it wasn't until twenty 526 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 2: sixteen when they were able to tag back with DNA 527 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 2: evidence that was actually found found beneath beneath the fingernails 528 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 2: of Jennifer Dewey where she had scraped the individual. 529 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: This is a huge case when it happened, you know, 530 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: the double homicide of two young women, It was big 531 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: news and it really got a lot of coverage at 532 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 1: the time, and they really investigated. It wasn't like this 533 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: case was kind of blown off by a small girl, 534 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: you know. Police they investigated it hard and heavy for 535 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: an extended period of time and were really frustrated that 536 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: they could not they could not resolve this and it 537 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: took years. But in twenty sixteen, and I think this 538 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: is something we're finding more and more often, thankfully, that 539 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: cold case squads are put together in departments all over 540 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,760 Speaker 1: and there's funding being made available. And that's what happened 541 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: in this case. When there's a guy named Sergeant Jacob Blass, 542 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: and he started with the police department in Fremont like 543 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: nineteen years you know, before the resolution of the case, 544 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: and he had become part of the cold case squad 545 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 1: that would look into these cases, and he became kind 546 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: of the DNA expert, and they were able to use 547 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: that evidence, you know, underneath the fingernails that they took 548 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty six to actually come up and find 549 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,439 Speaker 1: the guy who did it. And the reason we're now 550 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: talking about this case. I have questions for you about 551 00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: the bodies, but the reason we're talking about it is 552 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: because of what the what the murderer did. After everything 553 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 1: is said and done, he gets away with this particular 554 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: murder for nearly forty years, and then it's sentencing during 555 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: the family and friends impact statements over what you know happened, 556 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: you know to them, how they were emotionally impacted by 557 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: the death of these wonderful young ladies. And he is 558 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: so disrespectful that the news goes worldwide because of his 559 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: department during these impact statements and during sentencing, because just 560 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: a monster. But Joe, you've got one woman shot and 561 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: the other one killed with a knife. Is that indicative 562 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: of running out of bullets? Is it indicative of him 563 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: having a close relationship with one of the women? Did her? 564 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:49,400 Speaker 1: Did they have contact before? I mean, what does the 565 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: mode of death, the using a gun and a knife, 566 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: does that mean anything as an investigator? Or is it 567 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 1: just happened. 568 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 2: Well, for me, it shows I think, and this is 569 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 2: born out Dave. It shows to me someone that is 570 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 2: a predator, that somebody that is skilled at doing this 571 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 2: and has done it before. They show up with multiple 572 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 2: weapons that's referred to a redundancy, that they have a 573 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 2: fallback position with this. They're not going to uh just 574 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 2: leave it the chance that they're not going to and 575 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 2: all use this word again, be able to dispatch the individuals. 576 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 2: No one's going to get out of here alive, you 577 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 2: know that save that individual the perpetrator. Uh, that they're 578 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 2: going to use this opportunity to to end in the 579 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 2: life now, you know. And it's going to be his choice. 580 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 2: It's either going to be by the blade or the bullet. Uh. 581 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 2: And yeah, I suppose that we could say running out 582 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 2: of bullets, but I don't I don't necessarily think that 583 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 2: that that that's the case here. I'm talking about someone 584 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 2: that is animalistic, that is a predator that is seeking 585 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 2: out to do harm, that from beginning to end, that 586 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 2: it was his own personal sexual gratification that he was 587 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,280 Speaker 2: out to do this. And we're not just talking about 588 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 2: the act of sex. I think that the violence that's 589 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 2: involved in this is part of the act itself, and 590 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 2: this is born out in this perpetrator's past. 591 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: Dave, and he was already in jail at the time 592 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 1: this was going on for another murder. He is the 593 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: suspect in another cold case involving a nine year old 594 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: girl who was abducted in a parking lot and died. 595 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: He's going to be facing trial for that. So David Mish, 596 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: the guy who is the convicted murderer of these two women, 597 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 1: what did he do at sentencing Joe that caused this 598 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: to go worldwide? There was one calcific thing. 599 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, because this is what caught my attention day. I 600 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 2: was actually I think I was actually confidence. I may 601 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 2: have just gotten out of the hospital and I saw this, 602 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,760 Speaker 2: and I was like, we've got to have a discussion 603 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 2: about this, because, first off, let me say, let me 604 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 2: make a broad statement here to begin with, I am 605 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 2: seeing a threat in these courtrooms over the last few years, 606 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 2: where you have more and more of these convicted individuals 607 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 2: that have now been adjudicated guilty by the state, that 608 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 2: are absent of any level of decorum, and that decorum 609 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 2: is not necessarily I wouldn't necessarily expect someone like this 610 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 2: individual to understand decorum. However, the court does understand a korum. 611 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 2: I don't know how you go about it admonishing them. 612 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 2: I mean, what are you going to do to him, 613 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 2: you know at this point in time, because he's he's 614 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 2: already institutionalized, that's his mentality. He's just going back. They're 615 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,919 Speaker 2: not going to give him the needle in California. It's 616 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 2: just added onto a sentence. It means nothing to him, 617 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 2: and it's so dismissive. It's not like he It's not 618 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 2: like he sat there at the table and began to 619 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 2: openly weep and showed any level of contrition whatsoever, and 620 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 2: beg and plead for forgiveness and openly weep to display 621 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,879 Speaker 2: how sorrowful he was. Now, Dave, he started singing ninety 622 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 2: nine bottles of Beer on the wall. Just let that 623 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 2: sink in, just for a second. These family members who 624 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 2: have been grieving load these many years were talking almost 625 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 2: forty years, and this guy who has now been adjudicated 626 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 2: as guilty, begins to sing this song and they had 627 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 2: to physically remove him. You know, it's probably over overly 628 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 2: dramatical on my part to say that it's like he 629 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,399 Speaker 2: he's killing them all over again. I hate that term 630 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 2: because they are dead, but it is certainly it drops 631 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 2: to such a. 632 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 3: Level of of of an attempt to humiliate and debase 633 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,359 Speaker 3: a family that he's already, you know, he's already done 634 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 3: this to you know, how how much deeper? 635 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:43,239 Speaker 2: Uh can you go? You know, I don't know. It's 636 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 2: it was. And that's what really caught my attention about this, 637 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:51,319 Speaker 2: that someone could be, that they could be absent any 638 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 2: kind of remorse whatsoever, that they would do. And what's fascinating, Dave, 639 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,320 Speaker 2: is that this this precious little nine year old girl, uh, 640 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 2: that they have now charged him in this case, this 641 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,280 Speaker 2: case is going to come about now. He's got four, 642 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,839 Speaker 2: well three convictions. To this point, this guy is a 643 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 2: serial killer and a serial perpetrator because he had already 644 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 2: done early earlier on in his life, he had already 645 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 2: done a turn in jail for a rape committed at 646 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 2: knife point of an elderly lady, Dave, and they only 647 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,279 Speaker 2: gave him two years for that, and then they cut 648 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 2: him loose. And now we've got this little nine year 649 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,840 Speaker 2: old girl. And you know what's fascinating about this is 650 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 2: that this precious little angel had gone into a store 651 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,239 Speaker 2: with one of her friends, and they were on their 652 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 2: little scooters and the victim came out of the store 653 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 2: and she was apparently standing on her scooter, Dave. They 654 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 2: were able to lift a print off of her scooter 655 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 2: of this perpetrator and tied back to him. And that's 656 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 2: going to be you know, this is how hands play 657 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 2: into all of this, right, even in this particular case, 658 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 2: this is going to come back to haunt him. They 659 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 2: still have yet to find her body, Dave. He discarded 660 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,000 Speaker 2: her like a rubbish, like luck he did with Jennifer 661 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 2: and Michelle. But you know, I know that he's thankfully 662 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,600 Speaker 2: he's off street now, Dave. 663 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 1: And has been and thankfully so you're right. But now 664 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,919 Speaker 1: he's getting attention for singing ninety nine bottles of beer 665 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,439 Speaker 1: on the wall, because that is so offensive. And I'm 666 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,279 Speaker 1: not glad, but bringing attention to these women after all 667 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 1: these years, Yeah, letting criminals know. Hey, guys, yeah you might. 668 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 1: You might have thought you got away with this, but 669 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: you haven't. We've covered a lot of these lately, Joe, 670 00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: and I'm going to follow the case of the nine 671 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 1: year old and see what comes out of that trial, 672 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 1: and we might revisit this. 673 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I would like to because you know 674 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 2: that that little angel, her body has never been found, 675 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,920 Speaker 2: and and I would like for there to be some 676 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:19,520 Speaker 2: kind of some kind of conclusion I think arrived at 677 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:24,279 Speaker 2: with with her, uh to try to try to understand, 678 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,879 Speaker 2: you know, what what may have become of her. Her 679 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,680 Speaker 2: family is still out there, they're still grieving, and I 680 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 2: don't know, you know, given you know, given his the 681 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:49,560 Speaker 2: level of disregard for human life by singing ninety nine 682 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 2: bottles of beer, I think that if you're looking to 683 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:57,040 Speaker 2: him two for answers for you know, the remains of 684 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 2: nine year old MICHAELA. Garrett. I I don't necessarily see 685 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 2: him being a font of information, but maybe, Dave, you 686 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 2: never know where these things, you never know, if enough 687 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,080 Speaker 2: pressure can be applied, and maybe he'll be able to 688 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,560 Speaker 2: give some clues to the authorities as to what became 689 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,920 Speaker 2: of her little body as well. I'm JESSEP. Scott Morgan 690 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 2: and this is body Back