WEBVTT - What’s Your Money Story? 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.240 Hi everyone, I'm Katy Kirk and this is next question. 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:11.200 You know, my company, Katie Kirk Media, wouldn't get to 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:13.680 do all the cool things we do like bring you 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:17.320 this podcast if it weren't for the really innovative, smart 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:21.120 and forward thinking companies. We're lucky enough to partner with. 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:25.320 One of those is Ali. Today I'm joined by Ali, 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:29.600 Senior Director of Financial Health and Wellness. Yes, someone has 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:33.800 that job, Jacqueline Howard. We'll be talking about our deep 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:39.480 and often mysterious relationship to you guessed it money. Each 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.159 of us has a money story, and soon you'll hear mine. 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.440 It might involve how we viewed money as kids, or 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.480 how money made our parents feel. Not only do those 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:54.560 money stories stay with us, they really impact our financial 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:59.680 decisions today and our relationships with our partners, for better 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:03.880 or for worse. We'll talk about why. We'll also be 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:07.600 chatting with Kirsten and Julian Saunders, founders of Rich and 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.360 Regular and authors of Cashing Out When the Wealth Game 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.919 by walking away. Although money can be a breaking point 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.679 for so many couples, their money story actually has a 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:25.039 happy ending. Jacqueline Howard, Welcome. I know you go by 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:26.640 Jack so I'll call. 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:28.840 You Jack, thank you, thank you for having me. 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.160 I'm so excited for this conversation because I feel like 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:37.240 when people talk about financial literacy, they don't talk about 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:42.640 how our views on money and finances have been shaped. 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:46.800 Is this a relatively new area of conversation. 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:48.160 It is. 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.120 So it's welcome to my world of financial health and 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:54.120 wellness and money psychology. I've actually been with ally for 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.800 about thirteen years. In the first ten years of my career, 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.000 taught financial literacy and then moved into the space of finance, 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.720 social inclusion, and money psychology. But yes, it's this area 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:08.080 where we're looking at the emotions and subconscious beliefs, all 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:10.680 of those things that you may not think about with money, 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:13.000 getting away from more of the skills and more of 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.280 the behaviors and emotions that you have with money that 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.840 can stop you from having a great relationship with money 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.120 in the long term. So get into the emotions of 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:22.440 it all. 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.960 And it's really what you call our money stories and 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:32.000 how they have an impact on virtually every aspect of 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:36.040 our lives. What exactly makes up a money story? 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:40.200 Jack, Yeah, So it's really looking at those first money 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:44.480 memories that you have, any of your subconscious beliefs, things 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.080 that you may have learned from your parents, where as 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:48.959 an adult you may not think they show up in 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.519 your life, but in reality they do and it shapes 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.120 a lot of your financial decisions. 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.280 I can't wait to tell you my money story, but 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.000 before we do that, let me ask you this question. 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.960 Most of us blame ourselves for our money problems and 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:07.000 think it really is a question of discipline sticking to 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.720 a budget. But you have found it's far more complicated 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:11.080 than that. 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.240 How So, yeah, it's really, when you think of it, 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:18.520 eighty percent behavior and twenty percent skill. And for me, 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.160 with my money story, I have had a lot of shame, 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.440 and I've worked for a bank in financial literacy for 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.600 most of my career and still carry shame about money 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:28.800 because I have not always been good at it. And 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.760 it wasn't until I started unpacking my own money story 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.480 and really understanding money psychology that I began to realize 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.119 all of the things I learned from my parents and 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.840 my ancestors, life events, my first memories of money, and 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:44.920 how they impact me today, and how that whole process 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.560 of unpacking it has helped me to be more empathetic 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.880 with myself and others, and knowing that money is more. 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:53.240 Of a behavior than just skills. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.720 So one of my first memories of money is going 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:58.600 to the credit union with my mother. And I have 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.640 a twin brother named Jack, He's the original Jack, and 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:03.280 we would go to the credit and union with my mother, 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.119 who was a teacher, and every two weeks she would 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.520 pull out one hundred dollars and then we would go 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.480 and use that one hundred dollars to go shopping or 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.120 go to the movies. So my earliest memory of money 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:20.039 is creating experiences with family, and my mother shaped that 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.279 for me because we used money as a tool to 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.240 create joy and for me now as an adult, I 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:25.960 do the same thing. 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:30.159 That's wonderful. I mean, were there any negative memories for 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:31.560 you surrounding money. 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.119 Yeah, so, unfortunately my mother passed when I was about 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:35.960 twelve years old. 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.039 And for the relationship. 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:40.680 Between my mother and father, I would say my mother 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:44.120 was more of the saver and my father was more 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.640 of the spender. And oftentimes in relationships you attract your 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:50.279 opposite so for them, they kind of bumped heads on 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.640 money sometimes, which caused arguments in the family. We had 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:55.599 moments where we had a lot of money and not 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.200 a lot of money. So when my mother passed, she 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:00.479 was the person who was more of the found for 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:02.800 money for our family, and when she passed, we lost that. 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.120 So for me, I lost a sense of control, I'll 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:08.479 say when it comes to money, a sense of security 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:10.480 when it comes to money. When my mother passed and 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:12.760 my father, although he did the best that he could 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:17.240 with raising two young kids without a mom, he often 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:21.320 used money to help us to cover. 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.120 Up the fact that we didn't have our mother. 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:27.680 So that created my other money story of using things 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.440 to cover up emotions. And that's something that I've also 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.360 battled with as an adult as well. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.279 That's fascinating and I was just going to ask you 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:41.000 how these childhood memories shaped your relationship with money as 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:41.960 an adult. 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:44.040 By the time I got to high school, I was 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.800 about fifteen years old and went and got a worker's 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:50.479 permit and got my first job at McDonald's. And that 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:53.200 is the next piece of my money story of really 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.960 using money and working as a tool for me to 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.919 gain control and a tool for me to take care 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:00.560 of myself. 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:01.880 So I've spent most of my life. 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:05.159 I went to Michigan State University for college, where I 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.040 graduated with about thirty thousand dollars in debt, but at 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.520 the same time while at MSU, there were moments where 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:12.400 I had three jobs at a time to help pay 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:12.760 for it. 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.440 So I have extreme work. 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:17.760 Ethic for the things that I want, which created this 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.400 cycle for me of you work really hard, you buy 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.160 what you want, you might create debt, you pay it off. 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.159 You work really hard, you may create debt, you work 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.159 really hard and pay it off, which creates a cycle 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:31.159 almost for me, which has been a hamster wheel of 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:34.640 I need to make more money to keep all of 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.120 this going. And it wasn't until I went deep into 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.239 my money psychology of connecting the dots. 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.279 Of oh, I'm not just bad with money. 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.320 I learned these things and now I'm able to get 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.120 to the root issue and address it when things come 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.920 up of do you want to create an experience in 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:54.360 Hawaii that's going to cost you ten thousand dollars or 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:56.120 do you want to take your kids for a walk 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.359 and have that same experience with them that's free. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.760 Connecting those dots for me, it's just been game changing. 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:05.799 So how were you able to get off the hamster 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.800 wheel to really understand and take a closer, look at 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.440 your money psychology and say no, I don't. I want 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.080 to stop this vicious cycle. 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.120 For me, it's been that process of really understanding my 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.640 root issues. I hadn't thought about my money story until 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.800 starting the work with Ally. We started a wealth business 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.800 about a year ago where we grounded it in behavioral 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.320 finance and asking our clients about their first memory of 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.880 money is a part of the journey, and as a 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.280 part of that team, I had to unpack my own 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.480 money story in order to give that same council to 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:44.600 our advisors and for me now, I've created guardrails to 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:48.160 help me to navigate when things come up of wanting 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.720 to use money for experiences or wanting to use money 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.440 to buy things. Now I'm checking and saying, is it 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:56.840 really about the experience or the money or are you 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:59.440 looking for something deeper so fascinating? 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:01.560 Which do you like to hear my money story? 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.040 I would love to hear your money story. Tell me 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:05.080 your first memory of. 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:09.400 Money, Gosh. I think probably my first memory of money, 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.240 Jack is getting a dollar or maybe five dollars in 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:18.360 a birthday card from my grandmother and always putting it 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:23.520 into a savings account for my college education. I never 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:27.720 got an allowance, but my parents gave me money when 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:32.680 I needed it. But they also I remember, said I 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:36.720 could never buy a treat at the movie theater. Going 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.600 to the movies was a treat enough, so I wasn't 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:44.360 allowed to buy candy or popcorn. I used to smell 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.800 my friend Janet Taff's empty buttered popcorn container when she 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.920 was done with it. You know, I was very conscious 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:57.760 of not spending money, and I think really because of 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:02.760 the generational impact act of their growing up during the 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:06.400 Great Depression. When I was in high school, my dad 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:11.600 lost his job, so that made me quite nervous about money, 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:16.319 even though we were fine. It was something that I 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:21.640 think filled my dad with shame and my mom with embarrassment, 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:27.080 and so I have. I think I have a very 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:32.280 uncomfortable relationship with money. In many ways. I'm not a spender. 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:38.000 I'm a saver, and even though I have plenty of 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.160 disposable income at this point in my life, I still 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:45.840 get agitated and anxious when I'm spending a lot of money, 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.720 or people automatically turn to me and think I'm going 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.120 to take care of everything that annoys me, and I 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.560 resent it, but because I want to be generous, but 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.600 I also don't want to be taken advantage of. That's 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.480 a lot. That's a lot to break down. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.000 That's a lot, isn't it. 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.000 And tell me when you were thinking of those first 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.880 memories of money and the popcorn and the shame you 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.720 felt from your dad, what emotions came up for you 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:12.559 in that process. 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.760 Probably a little anger when well, actually I didn't. I 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:22.440 appreciated giving my money and putting in a college fund 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:27.680 because it made me appreciate the importance of saving and 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:32.160 not spending money on things that weren't of value. So 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:35.440 I actually really appreciate my parents instilling that in me. 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:40.680 But actually I feel pretty healthy about my relationship with money, 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:43.760 even though it's complicated like everyone else's. 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.439 Yeah, the great thing about money psychology and this financial 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:51.400 health and wellness space that we're in is bringing awareness 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:55.080 to that connection. Right, It sounds like you have a 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.240 good relationship with money now you've worked through it to 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.880 come to an appreciation. But for some people they still 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.480 be scared about not getting a popcorn. So I think 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:04.559 the great thing is being able to talk about it 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.880 and then also deal with those emotions to see how 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:09.280 it may be impacting you today. 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:11.680 I think I need a couch and we need an hour. 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:15.640 I know we do. We need hours to talk about it. 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:19.000 But I guarantee now that you've given this some thought, 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:20.680 it's going to show up in other places. 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:22.200 So look at it as a journey. 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.400 This money psychology and financial health and wellness is a 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.640 journey of you just unpacking your relationship with money just 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.760 to get better at it and to let go of 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.160 any trauma or any stress that you have about it. 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:35.520 Unpacking it helps you to get there. 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:54.800 We'll have more with Jack Howard right after this. I 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.720 know there's an actual quiz Jack developed by doctor Brad 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:04.600 Klanst financial psychologists, which measures four core money belief system 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.920 Let's go through them real quickly, and then I'll tell 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.880 you where I ended up on the test. The first 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.040 is money avoidance. Tell us what that is? 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.600 So money avoidance, that's the person. Money is evil. I 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.280 don't want money. Money is bad. 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.240 You get the bills and the mail, you're throwing them 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.360 in a folder, not looking at them. 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:25.600 You're avoiding money. 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:30.200 It's not the best money behavior to have, but you 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:34.400 can balance it by really creating a budget and addressing 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:35.080 things head on. 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:39.320 Okay, the next is money worship, the opposite. 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.319 Money worship and money focused. That's me. 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.000 So that is a person who thinks that if I 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.559 just have more money, it will solve everything. If I 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:49.800 could just get that promotion, make more money, I'm gonna 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:51.439 work harder, I'm gonna work on the weekends. 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:53.120 I'm gonna do all of that to make more money. 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:55.600 And for that, one of the downfalls could be that 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:57.720 you make more money, you tend to not have as 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:00.000 strong a relationships with family because you spend so much 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:02.200 time working and you can create debt. 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:04.840 So that one is also a tough one as well. 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.480 Money status, money status. 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.679 So that's a person where they tie their self worth 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:11.760 to their net worth. 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:12.840 So that is the. 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:16.440 Flashy You're on social media, you got the latest everything, 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.720 keeping up with the Joneses. You're really looking to money 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:20.920 to create your identity. 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:27.160 I am really turned off by that. And anyway, money vigilance, I. 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:28.880 Think this is the one that you are, Katie, So 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:33.199 money vigilance. This person is of the four money personalities. 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.000 They're a little bit better with money, but you tend 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:40.080 to save, You're a bit more frugal. The bad end 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.559 of that one is that you can tend to oversave 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.320 and not enjoy money as much, and it can create 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.720 anxiety and stress because you're always worried about if you 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:48.439 have enough money. 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.719 All right, we both took the test, and you are, 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.000 in fact a money worshiper. 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:54.800 I am. 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.480 I am a money worshiper. And for me with understanding 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.320 my own financial health and wellness, seeing that show up 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.680 in my life as an adult, and being able to 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:07.040 address it so that my kids have a different money story. 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.160 And so how are your kids different than you, and 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:14.240 how are you helping them shape attitudes that will lead 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.760 to financial help throughout their lives. 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:21.600 So I have a fourteen year old son and a 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.160 six year old daughter who will be angry if I 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:25.720 don't give her the six and a half because she 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.720 has a birthday coming. But for my son, one of 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:30.720 the great things about my career at ally is that 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.400 I've been able to take my son on this journey. 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.240 I think when I started working here he was about 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.440 two years old. So my career at. 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:43.120 Ally, I've created financial literacy, children's books, I've created magic 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.160 shows that talk about money, and my son has been 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:48.920 a part of that journey since he was little. So 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.240 now at fourteen, he's very mature when it comes to 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.120 the conversation of money. He understands that you have to spend, save, 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.240 and give. We created little buckets where he would put 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.360 money in the bucket based off of spend, se give 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.560 when he would get his allowance. And we've been doing 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:05.440 that since he was about six years old. And now 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.240 he is able to use the things that I've taught 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.240 him in a play. But I think the big thing 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:12.200 with your kids is making sure that they're a part 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.360 of a conversation, you know. I think the big difference 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:16.880 between my parents and some other parents is that we 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.240 didn't talk about money. We didn't have those conversations at 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.080 the dinner table. We didn't talk about investing or saving. 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:24.840 Money was looked at as a really a tool to 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.120 buy things versus an asset that we can use to 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.200 create more assets. And with my son, I'm trying to 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.560 teach him something different so that he's more vigilant with 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.680 his money and uses it as a tool to build. 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.120 And my daughter, I'm working on her. She's just we 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:41.760 just got her started on the allowance. 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.760 How do you work on these issues so you can 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.520 really turn a switch in your brain and change your 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.720 attitudes towards money for the better. 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:54.240 I think the first thing is realizing that it even exists. 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.320 So what you've done, Katie, just with this first step 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:01.680 of understanding your money personality, realizing that you may have 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.840 some subconscious beliefs that show up in your daily life. 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:07.720 I would encourage you to go home and journal about it. 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.000 Journal about some of those first memories, the beliefs that 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.320 you have, and then from there, once you journal, journal 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:16.760 about it and understand the impact that it has on 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.080 you today, create a different money mantra. So for you, 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:22.640 it may be in the past, I've felt that we 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.920 didn't have enough. I feel that you shouldn't spend money 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:30.960 on expensive things. It may be now that I have enough, 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.240 I can spend money on things that I budget for. 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:39.000 Tell me how our money stories impact our adult relationships, 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:44.160 whether it's with our partners, our bosses, our kids, our family. 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.600 I find this idea of your money story and your 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:53.760 financial health and wellness for relationships, specifically for couples, fascinating 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:59.320 because oftentimes you will attract your opposite. So I'm recently divorced, 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.840 but when I was married, read my husband was very 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:04.680 frugal and I'm. 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.520 A spender, so for our relationship. 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.400 We were attracted to each other because I gave him 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.719 a little bit of like, let's have some fun, and 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.400 he gave me a little bit of a structure. Where 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:19.080 the issues can come in. Is not realizing the money 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:21.800 story of your partner. So in his eyes, I may 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:25.560 have looked at been looked upon as irresponsible, or she 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:27.560 just wants to have fun, whatever, you know, she's not 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.920 serious about money. So I think oftentimes in our relationships, 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:35.000 by not understanding the money story or the money history 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:38.360 of the people around you, it creates this space for judgment, 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.439 It creates a space for shame. When you can unpack 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:44.240 those things, it creates more empathy. 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:45.400 And I think it would. 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:46.800 Help a lot of marriages if we were to have 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.200 this as a part of marital counselor before you got married. 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:51.560 It's crazy because when I think about the time when 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:53.359 I was getting married, you. 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:54.200 Just want to get married. 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.480 You're in love, and you want to have a big 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:00.000 wedding and all these things. You're not having those conversations 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.360 about the soft and higher skills of money. People are 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.000 avoiding those conversations because they may be ashamed, and it 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.840 just it could be uncomfortable it's a different level of 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:11.040 love when you talk about money. 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:16.400 Thirty eight percent of marriages split up for precisely this reason. 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:20.480 They don't see eye to eye on financial issues. 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:21.760 That's exactly it. 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:27.440 And oftentimes with marriages you think of infidelity, right, there's 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:34.240 sexual infidelity, emotional infidelity, but there's also financial infidelity. 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:35.960 And what that means is. 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.120 Those moments where you keep a secret about money from 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:43.360 your partner or your hiding accounts. It's really being dishonest 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.679 about money, and I think it shows up in a 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:50.119 lot of marriages and contributes to the lack of trust 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:51.720 and stability in a relationship. 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.800 Let me ask you a question about money and how 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:59.639 things have changed today. Thirty point six percent of women 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:04.360 made more money than their husbands. That's up from twenty 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.880 three percent in two thousand and sixteen percent in nineteen 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:16.040 eighty one. I'm curious how that has impacted relationships because 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.600 when I got married and started making more money than 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:26.480 my husband, who subsequently passed away, I think it created 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.000 some tension in our relationship. 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.840 I think it has really shifted the stories that we 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:37.720 have about money, conflict within relationships, how we talk about money, 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:42.959 and really forced us to look at old stereotypes about 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:49.760 money and gender roles and forced us to really look at. 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:50.959 What is the legacy we want to create for our children. 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:52.880 Right, So for my daughter, I want her to grow 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:54.240 up and know that she can grow up and be 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:56.239 whatever she wants and have a career and do all 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.000 those things the same thing that my mother did. So 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.240 it's really opening up this conversation about money of making 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:02.920 sure that the. 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:07.000 Roles have support. So if you're our working mom, making. 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:08.919 Sure you get that support outside of the home, and 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.280 then when it comes to money, ensuring that the couple 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.960 is on the same page with reaching their financial goals. 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:19.800 Women need to really understand their finances much more than 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.120 they do. Is that changing. 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.520 The conversation has changed, But as women, we also have 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:33.159 to take responsibility for our money. Take responsibility for the 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:35.880 things that you're invested in, even if it's through your 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.000 four oh one k at work, Understanding the accounts that 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.440 your family has, going through your estate plan. So I'm 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.359 working on my updated estate plan now post divorce, and 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.000 it's hard. I think we avoid these things because they're 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.560 tough conversations and it's easy to pass it off to 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:55.360 somebody else. Funny enough, so during my money story journey 0:20:55.480 --> 0:21:00.240 with Ally, I use our advisors here. My biggest fear 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:02.399 that came up for me is being a poor old lady. 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:06.600 And I think what comes up is that women often 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.000 live longer than men. We're not a part of the 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.640 money conversations, so we have this fear that the money 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.399 will run out. So how much money do I actually 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:18.080 need to live to be ninety five? You need to 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:21.320