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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is live

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Speaker 1: from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York

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Speaker 1: and Eva Though in San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up the AI trade warring

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Speaker 2: back to kick off twenty twenty six Tech doogs in

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Speaker 2: the Green. We analyze the optimism plus Tesla's China factory shipments.

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Speaker 2: They rise in December, but still drop in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: What that says about global EV demand and what do

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Speaker 2: expect from CES this year. We'll go live to Las

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Speaker 2: Vegas to give you a preview of key conversations across

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Speaker 2: our network. But first we digest what the markets are digesting.

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Speaker 2: We are thinking about a very macro event, a geopolitical

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Speaker 2: event that occurred this weekend, nocus Maduro and his wife,

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Speaker 2: of course, being removed from Venezuela and being brought here

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Speaker 2: to Me York following a series of airstrikes that hit

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Speaker 2: Caracas early Saturday, and the market shakes off that geopolitical risk.

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Speaker 2: Thus far, we're up more than a percentage point in

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Speaker 2: the Nasdaq. We're looking more towards an AI trade. We

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Speaker 2: go under the hood, though there is search for safety.

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Speaker 2: You have seen seeing gold rebound. Remember it's sold off

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Speaker 2: hard into the new year. Trade Bitcoin currently up to

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Speaker 2: two point nine percent as we see not just digital

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Speaker 2: gold on the higher side that's at ninety three thousand,

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Speaker 2: but spot gold at two point seven percent higher. I'm

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Speaker 2: looking at the US dollar currently trading flat, but we

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Speaker 2: had seen significant moves in the US solar more broadly,

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Speaker 2: and we want to go to that macro level event

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Speaker 2: right now because Venezuelan president Nicolas Maduro and his wife,

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Speaker 2: Celia Flores will face trial, that is, on narco terrorism

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Speaker 2: charges in New York in the afternoon. Joining us now

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Speaker 2: Blomberg Miles Miller, who stands by in Brooklyn right now,

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Speaker 2: just talk to us about the imminence of the arrival

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Speaker 2: of the ousted president.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they were taken by an armored Bearcat vehicle to

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Speaker 3: a landing pad in Brooklyn, and then from there they

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Speaker 3: flew across the harbor, past the Statue of Liberty to

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Speaker 3: the Wall Street helipad and we're motorcated here. Of course.

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Speaker 3: Nicholas Maduro and his wife are both here at federal

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Speaker 3: court in Lower Manhattan this morning and they're facing narco

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Speaker 3: terrorism charges Federal prosecutors alleged that Maduro intended to benefit

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Speaker 3: terrorist organizations including park Eln, Sineloa, Cartel, trend To Agras,

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Speaker 3: and the Zetas. And here's what prosecutors say happened from

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Speaker 3: two thousand to two thousand and six while he was

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Speaker 3: a member of the National Assembly. They say Maduro moved

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Speaker 3: cocaine under the protection of the Venezuelan law enforcement And

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Speaker 3: if that is not enough, they say that they were

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Speaker 3: able to secure diplomatic passports for some of these drug

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Speaker 3: traffickers to move drugs and money in and out of

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Speaker 3: Venezuela from places like Columbia and Mexico. In one instance,

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Speaker 3: we are told that they use a state oil plane,

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Speaker 3: a plane for the state oil company, in order to

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Speaker 3: facilitate the drugs moving in and out. It's not just

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Speaker 3: Maduro and his wife who were charged in this. Their

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Speaker 3: son is charged as well with being part of this

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Speaker 3: drug conspiracy. If convicted, he faces the possibility of life

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Speaker 3: in a supermax prison here in the United States. And

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Speaker 3: we finally got some information about his legal team. We

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Speaker 3: are learning that he's going to be represented by Barry Pollock.

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Speaker 3: That's the same person who represented Julian assand as well

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Speaker 3: as David Wilstrom, who represented the brother of Juan Orlando Hernandez,

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Speaker 3: of course, the former president of Honduras who was charged

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Speaker 3: right here in the southern district and was pardoned just

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Speaker 3: a few weeks ago by President Trump.

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Speaker 2: Miles, you standby in Brooklyn for us, But many wonder

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Speaker 2: how this is being digested in Venezuela. What do we

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Speaker 2: know about how Manduro is being deemed by Venezuelan leadership

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Speaker 2: right now?

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Speaker 3: And as people, Yeah, you know, we heard from the

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Speaker 3: Vice president of Venezuela that you know, she did not

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Speaker 3: necessarily agree what would happen there, and she, of course

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Speaker 3: is being the person who is taking control of the country,

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Speaker 3: and it's going to be an interesting time there to

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Speaker 3: see just what she does, how much she'll allow the

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Speaker 3: United States to say, run the state oil company to

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Speaker 3: control the oil in Venezuela, and if she doesn't, what

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Speaker 3: will happen to her. But it's not just what you're

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Speaker 3: hearing on the streets of Venezuela, people who may be

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Speaker 3: frustrated by what they saw. You've got folks on both

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Speaker 3: sides here, protesting, folks who believe Maduro should still be

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Speaker 3: in power and want him to be released at his

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Speaker 3: court hearing, and those who say they fled to the

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Speaker 3: United States because of Maduro's regime. You know, the President

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Speaker 3: said just yesterday that the United States will run Venezuela.

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Speaker 3: Didn't give too many details, but I think it will

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Speaker 3: have a lot to do with the oil and the

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Speaker 3: strategic oil reserves stare as well.

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Speaker 2: Miles Mena, We so appreciate you, of course standing live

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Speaker 2: outside and I correct myself, the Southern District of New

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Speaker 2: York Court in Lower Manhattan. Will we were returning to

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Speaker 2: you later. Meanwhile, US stocks sort of shrugged off these moves.

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Speaker 2: The powered higher this morning as demand for tech shares

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Speaker 2: remained strong even after the ousto of Venezuela's president, fan

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Speaker 2: worries over geo political risk. Let's get you an invest

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Speaker 2: to take. Anna Ruffin is here with us, founder and

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Speaker 2: CEO of Grenadilla Advisory, So your advisory is necessary right now? Anna,

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Speaker 2: is it right for the market to shape this off?

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Speaker 4: Good morning.

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Speaker 5: I don't think this has lot short term consequences for

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Speaker 5: the markets, and I think there's a reason why it's

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Speaker 5: shirking it off. It's not a short term trading event.

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Speaker 5: I do think that there's a long term consequence of this.

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Speaker 5: I know that energy companies are soaring because of this

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Speaker 5: idea that they will be able to go in and

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Speaker 5: extract some of that oil, But frankly, that's not a

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty sixth story. The longer place here really is

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Speaker 5: I think geopolitical think about where oil matters. Russia seller

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Speaker 5: of oil, China is buyer of oil, and of course

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Speaker 5: Middle East we all know that there's a lot of

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Speaker 5: oil involved there. So if we think about where the

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Speaker 5: conflicts are around the world and where, where and how

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Speaker 5: the US is involved in those conflicts, I think this

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Speaker 5: move in Venezuela is more of a chess game that's

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Speaker 5: a longer run game, rather than a short term move.

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Speaker 2: Well, boy, has the tech investment community been trying to

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Speaker 2: dissect the chess game that is US China trade and

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Speaker 2: tariff How does it affect that in twenty twenty six

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Speaker 2: do you think, Hannah.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, throughout twenty twenty six we're supposed to

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Speaker 5: be talking with China about tariffs, and at the center

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Speaker 5: of those tariff and trade talks really is where earth minerals, AI,

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Speaker 5: chips all of those things, right, And so if you're

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Speaker 5: China and you're looking at the development over the weekend

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Speaker 5: and you realize that in terms of natural resources, US

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Speaker 5: has taken control over a lot of the oil that

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Speaker 5: they will need as well. It sort of changes the

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Speaker 5: game and who has the upper hand in some of

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Speaker 5: these talks that we're expecting to be in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 5: So I think this puts, you know, strategically speaking, the

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Speaker 5: US in a more powerful position in some of these

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Speaker 5: trade talks. So it'll be interesting to see how this

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Speaker 5: all pans out in terms of our earth minerals and

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Speaker 5: of course China buying potentially and video chips as well.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So strategically thinking for an investor right now, is

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Speaker 2: it wise to be powering video higher, to be seeing

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Speaker 2: Tesla rocketing up on the green today? More broadly, should

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Speaker 2: the AI trade be back on for twenty twenty six?

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Speaker 5: I think twenty twenty six is going to be a

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Speaker 5: very interesting year for some of this trade that we've

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Speaker 5: seen powering through the years. I think, first of all,

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Speaker 5: there is this idea that a lot of IPOs will

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Speaker 5: come into play in twenty twenty six. We will see

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Speaker 5: how easy or difficult it is for a lot of

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Speaker 5: these companies to fundraise, especially those that have really really

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Speaker 5: high valuations, whether or not the investors really have the

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Speaker 5: appetite for these things. And as for Nvidia and Tesla,

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Speaker 5: they have other problems really. I mean, Nvidia has issues

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Speaker 5: with TPUs coming online, and even though I do think

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Speaker 5: that they have a lot of market share, still there

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Speaker 5: are things to think about. For Tesla, there's also bid right,

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Speaker 5: So it's not so much that it is about AI

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Speaker 5: powering through. I think there's real competition out there that

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Speaker 5: these companies need to be thinking about.

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Speaker 2: So it's interesting. We're going to be hearing from Jensen

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Speaker 2: Wang later today at CES from Nissa Sou of AMD.

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Speaker 2: What do you think they can give to the market

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Speaker 2: that backs up the market share, certainly even video at least.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think clearer guidance is definitely helpful.

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Speaker 4: I know that the Nvidia has.

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Speaker 5: Certainly given a clearer guidance for twenty twenty six, and

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Speaker 5: there seems to be a lot of demand. But they're

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Speaker 5: going to have to answer to sort of the next

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Speaker 5: best thing, right, So what's beyond the black Well chips,

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Speaker 5: what's beyond the relationships with open ai and other big

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Speaker 5: players out there. I think investors need to hear something

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Speaker 5: new in terms of partnerships as well as technological advancement

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Speaker 5: for a lot of this excitement to continue into twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Sona, where do you stand in optimism versus pessimism for

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty six If at this moment there are still

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Speaker 2: many more questions and perhaps the market isn't factoring in

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Speaker 2: some of the risks. Should you be buying in at

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Speaker 2: these levels?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, if you're already invested.

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Speaker 5: I think there's room for markets to run, but not

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Speaker 5: without any volatility here. I don't think the market is

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Speaker 5: so excited that, you know, analysts looking at fifteen percent

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Speaker 5: year over year growth in ESMP five hundred companies. That

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Speaker 5: might be exciting on a fundamental level, and hopefully it

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Speaker 5: broadens out to the rest of the sectors in the

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Speaker 5: SMP five hundred index, But there are multiples that are very,

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Speaker 5: very stretched right so, especially with this talks with China

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Speaker 5: that not only impacts tech but also other areas of

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Speaker 5: the economy. I think we're due for some volatility, but

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Speaker 5: weather the volatility by having a robust portfolio, and that

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Speaker 5: is always recommended by the advisor community.

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Speaker 2: What's been really interesting is well the ongoing drive dispersion

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Speaker 2: between software and hardware names. We saw that in particular

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Speaker 2: on Friday, and our great producer Dan Katz has been

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Speaker 2: pointing out just the disparity that they saw in software

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Speaker 2: indices that fell some three percent on Friday, and then

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Speaker 2: we rallied in when you're looking at a semiconductor in

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Speaker 2: next in particular more than four percent. Is that going

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Speaker 2: to continue? How much more support do we need for

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Speaker 2: software to show that it can benefit from the AI trade?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: I think twenty twenty six is still going to be

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Speaker 5: a picks and shovels year building these things out, and

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Speaker 5: the demand there is for it. That's not something that

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Speaker 5: can be done in a year or two. I think

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Speaker 5: this is a multiple year story. And certainly on the

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Speaker 5: software side, there's a lot of experimentation still. And if

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Speaker 5: you're a customer sort of subscribing to some of these

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Speaker 5: things and dipping your toes in, there's no guarantee that

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Speaker 5: that's going to be sticky. I mean, I think we're

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Speaker 5: thinking about things like SaaS where if you have a

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Speaker 5: subscription to something and you incorporate those software into your

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Speaker 5: day to day, it becomes super sticky.

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Speaker 4: I don't think that's.

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Speaker 5: Necessarily where we are with the software on the AI side.

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Speaker 5: I think people are experimenting, so until we can see

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Speaker 5: some stickiness in real incorporation, in integration of those software

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Speaker 5: into the day to day of the businesses, I would

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Speaker 5: be a little bit skeptical as well. And I think

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Speaker 5: that's what the markets are actually expressing.

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Speaker 2: Fascinating love getting a little healthy dose of skepticism today

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Speaker 2: for Manor Rathman, Fanta, CEO of Grenadilla Advisory, Stay Well

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Speaker 2: Happy twenty twenty six. Now coming up, the arrest of

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Speaker 2: Venezuela's Nicholas Maduura is being watched far beyond Latin America

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Speaker 2: what it could mean for US resolve and China Taiwan relations.

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Speaker 2: This is a glouemleg tech the arrest of Venezuela's Nicholas

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Speaker 2: madua when it's reverberating well beyond Latin America, some in Taiwan,

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Speaker 2: when they're already viewing the move as a signal of

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Speaker 2: US resolve, but the American strike is also star and

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Speaker 2: cons that is offered a template how Beijing could handle

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Speaker 2: tensions with Taiwan. Here to break it down, as BLUEBGG

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Speaker 2: senior Tech editor Mike Sheppard. You bring us the global

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Speaker 2: geopolitical perspective from a tech inside here. Mike, what should

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Speaker 2: we think for Taiwan and its well ability to continue

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Speaker 2: in its current state vise of EA China.

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Speaker 6: Well, there are different schools of thought, Cara that you

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Speaker 6: mapped out right there. One is from inside China. There

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Speaker 6: is the nationalist perspective that, look, this offers us a

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Speaker 6: rogue map perhaps of how we could retake control of

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Speaker 6: the self governed island of Taiwan, which officials in Beijing

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Speaker 6: view as a rogue province as one that they should

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Speaker 6: bring back into the fold. Meanwhile, in Taiwan and Taipei

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Speaker 6: officials they're actually finding some encouragement from the US move

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Speaker 6: in ven As will as perhaps a way of signaling

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Speaker 6: deterrence against Beijing to try to do anything similar there.

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Speaker 6: And they see it that way for two reasons. One,

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Speaker 6: they find that the US has military superiority over China

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Speaker 6: in this area. China would not be able to pull

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Speaker 6: off the same kind of maneuver that the US just

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Speaker 6: did on Saturday in Caracas now. And the other reason

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Speaker 6: is that they see that this signals that Trump will

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Speaker 6: exercise US military power when he sees American strategic interests

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Speaker 6: at risk, and they certainly would be if China moved

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Speaker 6: against Taiwan, which is a lynchpin in the global chip

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Speaker 6: supply chain.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, go that, Mike, the national security implications of Taiwan.

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Speaker 2: Why is that so crucial to the administration.

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Speaker 6: Well, they still see Taiwan as so essential to being

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Speaker 6: able to support a wide range of industries, especially the

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Speaker 6: growing one on which they have placed so many bets,

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Speaker 6: and that is artificial intelligence. Taiwan, far and away right

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Speaker 6: now is the world center of production of the most

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Speaker 6: advanced AI chips. Even with all the investment in production

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Speaker 6: that is planned for the US in coming years, much

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Speaker 6: of that is not online yet and is really still

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Speaker 6: being produced in Taiwan on the self governed island. So

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Speaker 6: any disruption to that supply chain would be catastrophic, especially

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Speaker 6: for political reasons. If we saw any sort of military

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Speaker 6: action by Beijing against the island, it would be disruptive.

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Speaker 6: And Caro, we remember during the pandemic just how problematic

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Speaker 6: those dislocations in the supply chain were and how they

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Speaker 6: rippled through so the automotive sective and others, And that

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Speaker 6: of course was before the advent of artificial intelligence and

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Speaker 6: chat GPT and the wide scale uptake that we're seeing

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Speaker 6: across the economy of this revolutionary new technology and what

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Speaker 6: that would mean if suddenly the world lost access to it.

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Speaker 6: We would likely see the US respond, It's unclear whether militarily,

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Speaker 6: but certainly with sanctions, together with other nations like Japan

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Speaker 6: and Australia that have already mused about leaping to the

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Speaker 6: island's defense in the event of Beijing trying to intervene militarily.

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Speaker 6: And it's important to remember while Trump has remained vague

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Speaker 6: about whether he would step in with US forces to

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Speaker 6: defend the island, the administration just approved an eleven billion

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Speaker 6: dollar package of arms to be sold to Taiwan, which

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Speaker 6: is one of the largest and recent memory care.

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Speaker 2: Always with the deep analysis, Mike Shepherd, thanks for breaking

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Speaker 2: that down. Meanwhile, look this geopolitical anxiety that we speak of,

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Speaker 2: so I have no impact on the AI trade in

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Speaker 2: that part of the world. Look at tsmc shares climb

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Speaker 2: by the most it's April, as the company rides a

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Speaker 2: wave of optimism of artificial intelligence. Demand from About Tech

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Speaker 2: Executive editor Peter Elstrom joins us for more and we've

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Speaker 2: heard how in many ways, there's two ways you can

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Speaker 2: interpret what this impact from Latin America means on Taiwan.

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Speaker 2: But TSMC great growth, it seems.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, as you were just talking about with Mike, Taiwan

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Speaker 7: really is at the heart of the AI boom right

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Speaker 7: now when it comes to the production, as we saw

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Speaker 7: with TSMC, the show are up by about five percent today,

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Speaker 7: we had Golden Sacks raise its price target for the stock.

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Speaker 7: They boosted it by thirty five percent. It's really an

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Speaker 7: extraordinary increase in what they expect you can see from

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Speaker 7: that stock. TSMC has done very well by making the

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Speaker 7: chips for Nvidia. It also produces chips for Apple and

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Speaker 7: other customers here. But really at Vidia has given it

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Speaker 7: a ton of momentum recently that's put the company on

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Speaker 7: a tear. Its market cap is now about one point

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Speaker 7: four trillion dollars, up quite sharply, and Golden Sacks is

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Speaker 7: telling you that it could run another forty percent from

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Speaker 7: where it is right now. So truly talking about TSMC

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Speaker 7: becoming a two trillion dollar company if they can hit

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Speaker 7: that price target. That would largely be based on the

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Speaker 7: momentum behind Invidia's growth and some of their other customers

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Speaker 7: like Apple.

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Speaker 2: And Nvidia has been helping Hanhai as well with its numbers.

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Speaker 7: That's right, yeah, exactly. So Hanahi reported there some of

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Speaker 7: their financial details for the fourth quarter, their revenue is

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Speaker 7: up twenty two percent. Hanahai makes a well mikes iPhones

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Speaker 7: for Apple two, which was its very most important business

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Speaker 7: for a long period of time. But it also makes

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Speaker 7: servers that include those Nvidia chips, so it's feeding servers

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Speaker 7: in hardware to the hyperscalers that are building these enormous

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Speaker 7: data centers across the US and across the globe. Really,

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Speaker 7: it has a tremendous amount of momentum because the big hyperscalers,

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Speaker 7: including Microsoft and Google are boosting their spending by more

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Speaker 7: than thirty percent this year to hundreds of billions of dollars,

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Speaker 7: and that's giving a big tailwind to Hanhai. So we

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Speaker 7: saw Honhai boost its revenue for the fourth quarter twenty

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Speaker 7: two percent. It came in a couple billion dollars more

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Speaker 7: than expected at eighty three billion dollars. So it has

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Speaker 7: a lot of momentum here. It looks like that demand

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Speaker 7: for AI gear is increasing at least for now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and ded iPhone seventeen did well. As you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: a key supplier, Fox Gone also known as Hanhi. But Viz,

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Speaker 2: going back to the start of this conversation, this is

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Speaker 2: as we see ongoing geopolitical anxiety around Taiwan, how much

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Speaker 2: always seeing these names invest in America and continue to

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Speaker 2: do so well.

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Speaker 7: They are strategic acts assets definitely, as you're talking about

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Speaker 7: with Mike, TSMC the most important chip maker in the

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Speaker 7: world by a mile because of the advanced chips that

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Speaker 7: it makes for companies like Nvidia, Apple, etc. Has been

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Speaker 7: building facilities in the United States. It's putting a water

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Speaker 7: resources there. It got some money from the Chips Act

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Speaker 7: under the Biden administration, has continued to build out those chips.

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Speaker 7: It is making a lot of progress there. It's able

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Speaker 7: to build fabs there that are quite productive, but they're

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Speaker 7: not nearly as advanced as what they can do in

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Speaker 7: Taiwan at this point. And this is part of the

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Speaker 7: justification by the Taiwanese government and also TSMC itself. They

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Speaker 7: want to have their most important assets in Taiwan. Partly

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Speaker 7: it's an economies of scale issue. They can travel to

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Speaker 7: those factories much more easily. Have the engineers learned from

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Speaker 7: each other within those factories. They want to keep that

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Speaker 7: most advanced production there. It's also, frankly a defensive maneuver

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Speaker 7: for the government that if the most important assets are there,

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Speaker 7: they know that the Trump administration or whatever US government

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Speaker 7: is in power, is more inclined to come and make

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Speaker 7: sure that they're protected.

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Speaker 2: Peter Elstrom the global perspective, we thank you Tesla's China

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Speaker 2: factory shipments. They came in today and showed they dropped

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five, but there was a last minute

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Speaker 2: bump in December where they grew as though as the

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Speaker 2: company struggles with a slowdown in global sales. Look all

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Speaker 2: of this, as I just mentioned, a little over ninety

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Speaker 2: seven thousand were in December, just the fourth month and

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five that saw an increase springing Bluemos Craddell

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Speaker 2: on all of this is the author of Hyperdrive Newsletters.

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Speaker 2: So to get the straight Tesla had decent numbers in

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Speaker 2: December in terms of growth month a month and indeed

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Speaker 2: year on year, but it's just woeful for the whole

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Speaker 2: picture of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, that's right, Caroline. I think you know, we look

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Speaker 8: at the December number, and it's actually you know, resilient

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Speaker 8: and not just one of the rare up months for

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Speaker 8: the year, but off of a relatively big month a

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Speaker 8: year earlier. And yet when you look at the sort

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Speaker 8: of whole picture for this company, you know, they had

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Speaker 8: shipments throughout the year that were much lower and sort

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Speaker 8: of reflecting this idea that they have some demand issues.

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Speaker 8: And of course when we look at their shipment data,

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Speaker 8: it's both for the local market and for some export

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Speaker 8: as well.

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Speaker 4: So we'll get a better.

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Speaker 8: Sense in the coming weeks just how the sort of

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Speaker 8: retail sales work.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's a second consecutive annual drop when you're

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Speaker 2: looking at China shipments. All of this comes in context

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Speaker 2: that BYD is now the biggest EV player worldwide. You've

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Speaker 2: also got other competition coming from x phonemakers who pivot

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Speaker 2: into cars.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, and China's market is increasingly cut throat. You've seen

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Speaker 8: Beijing try to sort of you know, put some pressure

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Speaker 8: on the industry to knock this off and kind of

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Speaker 8: you know, get to a point where pricing is a

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Speaker 8: little bit more rational, and yet we only continue to

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Speaker 8: see manufacturers, you know, offer new and more aggressive discounts,

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Speaker 8: and that's been something that Tesla has really struggled to

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Speaker 8: contend with throughout last year and even dating back to

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Speaker 8: I would say twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 2: Briefly here in the US, that's competition from Lucid.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, and Lucid I think like Rivian is still a

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Speaker 8: long ways behind Tesla. I think both of these companies

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Speaker 8: had ambitions to give Elon Musk more of a challenge,

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Speaker 8: if we've not seen that materialize. I think we saw

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Speaker 8: some relatively strong numbers for that company in the fourth quarter,

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Speaker 8: and yet you would expect that when they were going

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Speaker 8: from one model to two models. So you know, big

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Speaker 8: things ahead for them this year as they tried to

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Speaker 8: also bring out a new platform.

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Speaker 2: Bloombg's Auto's editor or Zara as we like to call you, Creatudel.

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Speaker 2: Great to have some time with you. Tune in tomorrow

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Speaker 2: if we sit down with Lucid interim CEO Mark windhoff

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Speaker 2: As live at CEES. Welcome back to bluembg Tech. We

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Speaker 2: check in on these markets that shrug off some geopolitical anxiety,

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Speaker 2: of course when gathering higher. In fact, on the nasdak

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Speaker 2: as you see at one point one percent, you are

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Speaker 2: seeing search for safety, though Bitcoin maybe up to two

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Speaker 2: point eight percent. Gold climbs fresh again, and this is

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Speaker 2: after the ouster of Venezuela's President, Nicholas Maduro, who is

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Speaker 2: set to arrive at a Manhattan court imminently. Now we

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Speaker 2: think about the geopolitical context, we also think about what

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Speaker 2: the AI trade is up to at the start of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, and we're back on in video up

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Speaker 2: sevent tens percent, AMD up six tens percent. We hear

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Speaker 2: from both of these CEOs over in Las Vegas later

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Speaker 2: today at CEES. So the market wanting to hear more

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Speaker 2: transparency from these leaders. Paneteer shakes off some of the

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Speaker 2: sell off that we saw on Friday. This software AI

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Speaker 2: and FU software company is up more than four percent.

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Speaker 2: It's one of the key gainers on the NAZAQ one

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Speaker 2: hundred from one points perspective. So to is Alphabet, we're

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Speaker 2: up five tens percent. As still insatiable demand for Google

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Speaker 2: and indeed it's Gemini iterations, but also it's TPU innovations.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk more about the AI trade. It's resiliency, Bloomberg's

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Speaker 2: Tech Equity Report to common Rhinokey is Hey and you've

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Speaker 2: been putting pent to pepe, but thinking all about how

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Speaker 2: an AI bubble has been much tokedal Is it reality?

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Speaker 2: Is it going to pop? What have we been hairing

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Speaker 2: in terms of historical context?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, so looking at this in historical context is really interesting.

436
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 9: I think we know that there's going to be a

437
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 9: fourth year of talking about AI driving the market. Are

438
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 9: we in a bubble? And so when you look at

439
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 9: some of the past equity bubbles, there are some differences

440
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 9: that investors point out that are important. So, for example,

441
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 9: the duration of this rally is longer than the average

442
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 9: of the last ten equity bubbles. We're at three years,

443
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 9: the average is about two and a half. But at

444
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 9: the same time, the percentage gain is actually much lower.

445
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 9: So we're up about one hundred and thirty percent on

446
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 9: the Nasdaq over the last three years, and the average

447
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 9: for the last ten equity bubbles has been more than

448
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 9: two hundred and forty percent. So that kind of signals

449
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 9: that we're not in the sort of blistering sort of

450
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 9: upcycle upswing in the market that you usually see before

451
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 9: a bubble pops.

452
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 2: There are also some other key things.

453
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 9: You know, investors are still watching really solid fundamentals from

454
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 9: the big tech companies, and actually pessimism that we saw

455
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 9: especially I think gain really over last year. You know,

456
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 9: the investors really calling for ROI, you know, for seeing

457
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 9: more like innovation from these companies. That's actually a good

458
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 9: thing in terms of a market bubble, and it very

459
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 9: much differs from the dot com era, where investors were

460
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 9: so excited about the Internet and everything related to that,

461
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 9: but they kind of overlooked, you know, valuations and some

462
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 9: of the fundamentals of those companies.

463
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 2: I felt like discerning was the word of December. Everyone

464
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 2: was saying investors get more discerning. They were picking their

465
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 2: winners among the AI trade, How are we set up

466
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 2: posts set off of an oracle and those companies. They

467
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: still did extraordinarily well for twenty twenty five, but some

468
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 2: of that height did fizzle someone as companies and investors

469
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 2: tried to understand the debtloads of these businesses.

470
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I think the other thing that we're seeing

471
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 9: that's good is the broadening of this rally. So yes,

472
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 9: people are picking their winners and their losers, but we're

473
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 9: also not seeing the biggest gainers continue to have be

474
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,239
Speaker 9: sort of like astronognomical percent gains over the year. So

475
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 9: in the MAG seven, for example, only two in Nvidia

476
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 9: and Alphabet of like those were the only stocks that

477
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 9: outperformed the S and P five hundred last year. And

478
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 9: you know, the biggest performers are the biggest sort of

479
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 9: percentage winners that we saw were other stocks like linked

480
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 9: to AI, so the memory like the digital storage companies.

481
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 9: So that also just shows that the rallies broadening out

482
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 9: and that is generally more healthy for the market.

483
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 2: A little bit of health to kick off this twenty

484
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 2: twenty six common Ranicky, we appreciate it. I stick with

485
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 2: the AI build out in particular how secure it is,

486
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 2: questions growing around in particular power and infrastructure constraints as

487
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 2: well Flex Central. It's one of the largest privately held

488
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: data center operators in the United States. Fully two data

489
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 2: centers cross eighteen markets here in the US. Ran Mallory

490
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 2: as the CEO, please to say you join us now,

491
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 2: and I want to get for our audience, really, Ron,

492
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: how you define where you sit in the overall market

493
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: because right now, from what I understand is you're a

494
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: co location offering. So we've got well big hyperscaleer's got

495
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 2: neoclouds and then we've got flec centraal.

496
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 10: That's correct, and thanks for the opportunity to catch up

497
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 10: this morning, Caroline. It's really about, you know, the type

498
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 10: of infrastructure that you deploy out there. Flex Cential is

499
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 10: taking a very pragmatic view on making sure we're able

500
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 10: to address the wholesale infrastructure, so the one to twenty megawatts,

501
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 10: but also making sure that we're able to address the

502
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 10: multi tenant capabilities that are out there as well, because

503
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 10: those are the companies that are going to be consuming

504
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 10: the agentic AI capabilities that we're seeing to start to

505
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 10: accelerate out there, so that the landscape is starting to

506
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 10: separate a bit, and flex Cential thinks we've got a

507
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 10: very strong position right down that fairway on that wholesale

508
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 10: multi tenant collocation marketplace.

509
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 2: Ryan, that sounds like you want to be diversified. You

510
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 2: don't want to just have one particular buyer calling you

511
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: up saying I will take one hundred megawatts from your

512
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 2: future project. How are you hearing though from potential clients.

513
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: Are they wanting you to be the sold right or

514
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,719
Speaker 2: you've been taken in entirety of their business in certain locations.

515
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, Caroline, you're spot on. We want to make sure

516
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 10: that we're diversified in our customer base, and you know,

517
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 10: the simple answer is yes. We have companies that come

518
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 10: to us and say we want to make you know,

519
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 10: we want to take one of your whole data centers

520
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 10: and put all of our you know, GPU TPU xpus

521
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 10: in those facilities. That's just not where we're going to play.

522
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 10: We want to make sure this multi tenant ecosystem environment

523
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 10: has a place out in the market, and our product

524
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 10: set is just perfectly fit for that out there.

525
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 2: Today, you talk about GPU, TPU XPU, what is the

526
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 2: constraint right now? For all of twenty twenty five, it

527
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 2: felt like the narrative was it's the chips, but actually

528
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 2: then it became the power then, whereas warries about water.

529
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:49,959
Speaker 2: Where are you seeing some of the chap points.

530
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean it's really threefold. We see land, power

531
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 10: and supply chain, and supply chain being that of you know,

532
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 10: the mechanical infrastructure that goes inside the data centers. And

533
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 10: so you have to be very focused on all three.

534
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 10: And you're not just planning for twenty six right now,

535
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 10: you're planning for twenty eight through thirty because you know

536
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 10: that this dynamic marketplace and the consumption models that are

537
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 10: out there, we've got to be very focused on the

538
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 10: long term gains and being able to provision this infrastructure

539
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 10: to meet those requirements.

540
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 2: So where does that infrastructure end up going. We keep

541
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 2: talking about innovations, particularly in the inference side of things,

542
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 2: and people have got anxiety about Nvidia's role going forward

543
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 2: as once the models are trained that being used, is

544
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: it still all about the GPU? Is AMD getting a

545
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: look in what's your client's demand?

546
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, and so it really depends on what the end

547
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 10: customer is trying to use the infrastructure for. You know,

548
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 10: let's not forget that. Right now, we're shipping five CPUs

549
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 10: for every GPU out there, and so this dynamic integration

550
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 10: between the CPU world and the gp EU world is

551
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 10: really starting to form. And that's where this agentic capability

552
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 10: is being able to use multiple services is really starting

553
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 10: to drive this demand growth. And you know, when people

554
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 10: talk about AI bubbles there, I think we're still at

555
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 10: the forefront of this AI consumption model To really start

556
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 10: to put our hands around that, I think we've got

557
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 10: a long runway to go.

558
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: Long runway, what does that mean for your runway? Ryan,

559
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: As we said, you're one of the biggest privately how operators.

560
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: I assume you're not just going to call some clients,

561
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: but from companies that want to own a bit of

562
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: your real estate.

563
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 10: Absolutely, and so we're looking at this in you know,

564
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 10: five and ten year horizons, and so you know, we've

565
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 10: got a firm path over the next five years for

566
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 10: that land, for that power and supply chain. You know,

567
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 10: we're buying out infrastructure to make sure that we're able

568
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 10: to meet this growth trajectory out through you know, twenty

569
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 10: thirty twenty thirty two. Once you get out past that,

570
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 10: it's a little bit hard to predict what this infrastructure

571
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 10: is going to look like. You know, we're firmly entrenched

572
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 10: with you know, liquid to chip, liquid to rac or

573
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 10: and immersion cooling inside the facilities to meet these higher

574
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 10: density deployments. But you know, right now we're formally firmly

575
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 10: focused on getting out to that twenty thirty to twenty

576
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 10: thirty two deployment strategy.

577
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 2: Roan Mallory come back, I hope for Essential CEO operating

578
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 2: those data centers across the United States, a lot on

579
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: the East Coast. Meanwhile, coming up what twenty twenty six

580
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: has in store for AI regulation. We'll discuss that with

581
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 2: Jessica Nujan, director of the Central of Technology and Innovation

582
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: with the Competitive Enterprise Institute. This is b meg the

583
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: AI trade. Well, if you're looking at stocks, it's on today.

584
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: But one of the headwinds industry leaders keep on mentioning

585
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 2: is AI regulation. One of President Trump's final executive orders

586
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five, remember, was aimed at limiting state

587
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 2: AI regulations, countering what it sees as a patchwork of

588
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: local laws that industry leaders argue stifles growth. Discuss what

589
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six may bring in federal AI regulation. If any,

590
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 2: Let's bringin Jessica Malusian. She is the director of the

591
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 2: Center for Technology and Innovation with the Competitive Enterprises to

592
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: you're a non partisan policy group, you are going to

593
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 2: argue against heavy regulation to foster innovation. So I have

594
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: a feeling you're not pro a patchwork approach. But will

595
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 2: we ever get a federal approach or at least Congress

596
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 2: being able to push forward one.

597
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 11: Yeah, So I think the executive order that you mentioned

598
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 11: earlier by President Trump was in one part, trying to

599
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 11: get some of that done without congressional action. That's probably

600
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 11: now going to be a very successful plan. But I

601
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 11: think also part of it was trying to create some

602
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 11: political pressure for Congress to take on this responsibility and

603
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 11: act in place. As you described a patchwork of fifty

604
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 11: state regulations, there were a thousand of them introduced or

605
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 11: passed or considered just last year, and often their contradictory.

606
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 4: Often they're heavy handed.

607
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 11: Some of them might make sense, but not all of

608
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 11: them do, and to ask USAI entrepreneurs to operate in

609
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 11: that environment is very unrealistic.

610
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting is even despite that executive order, many

611
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: California law makers are still pushing ahead with some of

612
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: their AI regulation. And then I think what other Senate

613
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: Commerce Committee chair. For example, you've had Ted Cruz roll

614
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 2: out a package of a related legislature. He's doing that

615
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 2: back in September. You've had Marshall Blackburn looking to unveil

616
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: more potential regulation that was announced in December. There's been

617
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 2: Democrats in the House as well. Jessica, what is the

618
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: most sensible.

619
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 11: I think we'll start with what's the least sensible, which

620
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 11: is that the default situation if Congress does nothing, is

621
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 11: that you're going to have the most strict regulatory regimes.

622
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 11: So think California, I think New York become the default

623
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 11: setting for the entire country.

624
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 4: Right as firms try to comply with this.

625
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 11: The big ones might have the money to do that,

626
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 11: but smaller guys are going to say, Okay, we're just

627
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 11: going to comply with the most strict version. Hope that

628
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 11: gets us through. So you know, that's not how any

629
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 11: of this was designed to work. And what you need

630
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 11: is people on the national stage. That's why we have

631
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 11: the Commerce Clause, willing to butt heads even if they disagree.

632
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 11: That's what hearings in regular order are for. So the

633
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 11: Ted Cruises and the Marsha Blackburns should talk this out

634
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 11: and figure out where we can get to some agreement

635
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 11: on this. But this certainly is the purview of Congress

636
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 11: and not just the most regulatory strict states or fifty

637
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 11: different states.

638
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 2: Now, in many ways, AISA David Sachs has been thinking

639
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: about federal regulation from an administration perspective, but also they've

640
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: been thinking about how some of the innovations in the

641
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 2: US are enabled to be sent abroad. And we still

642
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 2: think about what in Nvidia and its access to China,

643
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 2: really looks like how much is that going to be

644
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 2: dominating the agenda as well?

645
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 11: From your perspective, I think chips are a part of it,

646
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 11: But I think that you correctly identified the issue that

647
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 11: loom's largest off this debate is that you know, this

648
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 11: really isn't at questions so much as we are, in

649
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 11: fact in a race with China for global AI dominance.

650
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 4: That's just the reality.

651
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 11: I think people who are looking at this on that

652
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 11: scale understand that tying and arm behind to back with

653
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 11: a bunch of state regulations for the US is not

654
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 11: a great plan for winning. So I think all of

655
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 11: those questions, whether it's chip restriction, exports or creating a

656
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 11: regulatory regime as we see in the EU they have

657
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 11: an AI regulatory regime that's bigger than their AI sector.

658
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 11: We don't want to fall into that trap because this

659
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 11: isn't just about benefits to US consumers, which there are

660
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 11: many from AI and the health of our economy which

661
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 11: is significant from AI, but it really is also making.

662
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 4: Sure that as we go forward, the world is.

663
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 11: Running on US AI, not Chinese AI. That's been our

664
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 11: approach in a lot of technological times of innovation, but

665
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 11: it's certainly never been more important than it is with

666
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 11: artificial intelligence.

667
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 2: Some of the angles with altufficient intelligence has been meant

668
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: health and security of its users and consumers. This is

669
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 2: something that we think time and time again has been

670
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,720
Speaker 2: affecting the social media outlook. There has been a void

671
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 2: of federal regulation when it comes to the protection of

672
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 2: users on social media. Over in Australia, you've seen quite

673
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 2: drastic steps being taken by looking to and disallow anyone

674
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: on younger than sixteen using companies meta with Instagram, with

675
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 2: Facebook and the like. What do you make of what

676
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 2: Australia's done and what we might do in the United States.

677
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean Australia is certainly like the first mover

678
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 11: in this right it's out on the tip of the sphere.

679
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 11: I'm not sure it's going to be the silver bullet

680
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 11: for everyone's mental health and all the things that make

681
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 11: being a teenager difficult that they hope it is. But

682
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 11: they're willing to run the experiment for us, and I'm

683
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 11: sure that other countries are watching closely and there might

684
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 11: be some copycatting there. I think that's a much steeper

685
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 11: hill to climb.

686
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 4: In the US.

687
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 11: First of all, we have the First Amendment. That would

688
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 11: be a challenge for all all like this. Kids don't

689
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 11: have full rights as adults, but they have some rights.

690
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 11: And also these social media companies have their own First

691
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 11: Amendment rights to speech, so that also we have a

692
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 11: Congress that it often struggles to get so called must

693
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 11: pass legislation done. So I think it's two different environments.

694
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 11: We'll all be watching how it goes in Australia. So

695
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 11: far it's a lot of kids circumventing the rules with

696
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 11: VPNs and other tactics. And the fact is too these

697
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,919
Speaker 11: social media companies that are targeted by the laws are

698
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 11: born and bred in the US, so it's a little

699
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 11: bit different politically as well. These are our companies and

700
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 11: as we talk about all the time, these are creating

701
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 11: a lot of wealth and value for consumers here and

702
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 11: I think we think a little more carefully about how

703
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 11: we treat them and what regulations and finds we subject

704
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 11: them to than the rest of the world does.

705
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 2: Jessica Illusion, director of the Center of Technology and Innovation

706
00:36:51,800 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: with a Competitive Enterprises, thanks for joining us today. A

707
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: Consumer Tech Conference CES kicks off in Las Vegas with

708
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 2: all eyes on the power and the impact of AI.

709
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 2: Let's get more on what we can expect. Buther Owan,

710
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 2: Ned Ludlow, you're already there in Vegas. I'm following in

711
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 2: hot pursuit. But then I mean, we're going to hear

712
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 2: from Jensen Wang. It's all going to be about showing

713
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 2: the innovation and market share is still there.

714
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 12: Right, Yeah, it's called the Consumer Electronics Show. But the

715
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 12: frank reality is you have the CEO of the world's

716
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 12: biggest and most important company talking big picture about AI

717
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 12: right in Video, calling this what's next in AI, and

718
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 12: it's highly unlikely that they're going to kind of surprise

719
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 12: the markets with some new product, but maybe some substantive

720
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 12: updates on the product roadmap, right and Video has this

721
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 12: commitment to releasing a new generation of GPU annually. So

722
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 12: right now there's a big focus on Blackwell, but what

723
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 12: comes next is vera Rubin and the Rubin generation. A

724
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 12: year ago when we were here, it was also kind

725
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 12: of the sidelines commentary from Jensen that ruled markets. Right

726
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 12: as it stands, we have a real bottleneck with memory

727
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 12: chips go. It was Jensen had to say about Samsung

728
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 12: and their validation of Samsung's high Bandwick memory. This sent

729
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 12: kind of markets into a tizzy. So the way that

730
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 12: investors put this to me is like, it's the first

731
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 12: proper business day of the year. Let's be honest, and

732
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 12: you get Jensen one knot and there's likely to be

733
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 12: some reaction to that.

734
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: You get Lisa su Quino as well, and what do

735
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 2: we hear from the other key player? And that's not

736
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 2: consumer evidently, but is powering the consumer?

737
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 12: You know a little different, right, you know, Lisa to

738
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 12: an AMD will want to talk about how they are

739
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 12: competitive in the in the AI accelerator market, and there's

740
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 12: an opportunity for them to catch up with Nvidia, particularly

741
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 12: in the inference phase. They have a role to play.

742
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 12: But what we've seen with AMD historically is they still

743
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 12: have a very big foothold in the PC market that's

744
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 12: relevant to the consumer, relevant to developers. So with their

745
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 12: rise in CPU, perhaps we hear some news around that.

746
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 12: The big news for them a year ago was that

747
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 12: they had their gear going into Dell for the first time.

748
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 12: So it will be this mix of like, Okay, we're

749
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 12: staying competitive in AI, but AMD is still there and

750
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 12: there about in PC and also in gaming in videos.

751
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 12: Let's focus on that it still operates in those markets too,

752
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 12: of course.

753
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's origins all about your world of gaming. Team

754
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: Blue Meg Tech's own ed Ludlow. We love it. Thank

755
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: you for more on cees come right here tomorrow. On

756
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Tech. We're going to have some of the biggest

757
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: names in the industry, including in video CEO Jensen Huang Zeeman,

758
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,839
Speaker 2: CEO Rollin Bush, AMDCO, Lisa Sue, and so many more.

759
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: But of course we do all need to head back

760
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 2: now to the Southern District of New York Court in

761
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 2: New York, where Bloomberg's Miles Miller is standing by as

762
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 2: we are moments away from Venezuelan president Nicholas Maduro and

763
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 2: his wife Celia for US facing trial on narco terrorism charges.

764
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 2: But ten minutes out.

765
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 4: Miles, Yeah, that's right.

766
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,919
Speaker 3: They will go before Judge Alvin Hellerstein in about ten

767
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 3: minutes time. Here, less than ten minutes now, they cleared

768
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 3: the courthouse floor of everybody, swept the floor, and they'll

769
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 3: bring them into the courtroom and then let people come in.

770
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 3: This is such a widely watched case that they have

771
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 3: several overflow courtrooms in this court. They are alleging that

772
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 3: Nicholas Medoro and his wife ran a narco terrorism organization

773
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 3: funded narco terrorists, using government planes to get drugs in

774
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 3: and out of the country, in one case, using the

775
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 3: state oil company's plane to fly twice monthly to Margarita

776
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 3: Island to load up with drugs and then bring them

777
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 3: to other parts of different countries, including to the United States,

778
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 3: using government infrastructure to do corrupt acts. Those are the allegations.

779
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 3: He will face that judge of twelve and it's likely

780
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 3: that he'll enter that plea of not guilty. What is

781
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 3: most shocking and very interesting in this case is that

782
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 3: he's hired the same attorney that Julian Assange use, a

783
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 3: high powered attorney from Washington to represent him in this case.

784
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 3: But these are very very serious charges which carry the

785
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 3: possibility of life in prison, the possibility that Nicholas Maduro

786
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 3: after trial could go to a supermax prison for the

787
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 3: rest of his life. There are people out here on

788
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 3: both sides, supporters of his outside. He'll be able to

789
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 3: hear them when he goes into the courthouse or goes

790
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 3: into that courtroom here at five hundred Pearl Street in

791
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 3: just about now five minutes time.

792
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 2: Local protests, but global ripples, and we're seeing that. When

793
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 2: we talk here on the Tech show about what this

794
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 2: means for the future of China and Taiwan, we hear,

795
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 2: of course of the Danish leader, Prime Minister Meta Fredericson

796
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 2: on their own National TV network saying that if Donald

797
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 2: Trump were to attack the Danish island of Brelan, that

798
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 2: would mean the end of the NATO Alliance. How global

799
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 2: is the mindset over there in Manhattan right now?

800
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, you see the global impact of this pretty clearly. Right.

801
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 3: Our government, the US government is trying to go into

802
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 3: Venezuela and take control right now of the oil so

803
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 3: that China and Russia don't control the oil in Venezuela.

804
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 3: And it's actually very interesting. You see people here who

805
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 3: are protesting the Chinese Communist Party right here in Chinatown.

806
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 3: So it's global, but it's also local too.

807
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 2: Mas Miller, we thank you so much for coverage throughout

808
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: the hour and throughout the rest of the day right

809
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 2: here on the Boombag network. Meanwhile, that does it for

810
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: this edition of Bloomberg Tech. Do not forget to check

811
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:28,280
Speaker 2: out on podcast. You can find it on the terminal.

812
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 2: So I was online on Apple, Spotify and iHeart from

813
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 2: New York. This is bloombag tech.