WEBVTT - Galloway Says Twitter Should Consider Subscription Model

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the

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<v Speaker 1>Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>Bomberg Business Week, Yeah, Friday, wrapping up the week, close

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<v Speaker 1>to it. What do you make it this week? Um man?

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's a lot more about kind of getting

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<v Speaker 1>back to work and getting back to normal. I still

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<v Speaker 1>think the city is going to be tricky for us,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think, you know, we hit it off with

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<v Speaker 1>a really smart medical conversation. I think it's in our

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<v Speaker 1>weekend show. But it just you know, Manhattan versus the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of the world. So we know Manhattan's trickier just

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<v Speaker 1>because of the amount of people and just the structure

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<v Speaker 1>of how we work in a very dense city. But

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<v Speaker 1>I do feel up more optimism, and we certainly saw

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<v Speaker 1>it play out in the markets. I mean, the Dow

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<v Speaker 1>up three point seven this week, the S and P

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<v Speaker 1>Jason up more than three percent, and the Now's up

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<v Speaker 1>two percent, so there definitely was some enthusiasm in the markets.

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<v Speaker 1>I do worry though about some of these other tensions,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't know how much is because it's an

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<v Speaker 1>election year, or how much is some real tensions that

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<v Speaker 1>might complicate the economy bouncing back. Yeah, I worry about

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<v Speaker 1>those tensions too. I mean I worry about the tensions

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<v Speaker 1>that are geopolitical. I worry about the tensions that are domestic,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. I mean, I think we all have watched

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<v Speaker 1>with you know, horror, everything that went on uh in Minnesota,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you know, you sort of factor in the

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<v Speaker 1>social media aspect of this, and you know, Twitter has

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<v Speaker 1>been at the four of all of that. And man,

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<v Speaker 1>do we have the perfect person to talk about that.

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<v Speaker 1>I have to say our next guest, I was gonna

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<v Speaker 1>energize when we talk with him. He's New York Times

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<v Speaker 1>bestseller his book The Four The Hidden DNA of Amazon, Apple, Facebook,

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<v Speaker 1>and Google. He also wrote The Algebra of Happiness, which

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<v Speaker 1>if you have not read you should. You should also

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<v Speaker 1>check out his video that's online. Uh. He's professor at

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<v Speaker 1>n y use Stern School of Business. Delighted to have

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<v Speaker 1>back with us, Scott Galloway, professor as we said, at

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<v Speaker 1>the school. And he's on the phone in Delray Beach, Florida. Scott,

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<v Speaker 1>So nice to have you here with us. How are

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<v Speaker 1>you doing? Has your family, has your team? Everybody? I hope? Okay, um, well,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks very much, Carl. Good to be with you. That's

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<v Speaker 1>a generous question. Yeah, we're all. We're all doing really well.

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<v Speaker 1>I think this is if you're blessed to have a job,

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<v Speaker 1>if you can work from home, if you're healthy, and

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<v Speaker 1>if you're and I check all those boxes, you're doing great. Well.

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<v Speaker 1>Go ahead, Jason, Well, I was just going to say,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we were getting ready for this show today, Scott.

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<v Speaker 1>And as a veteran broadcaster podcaster, first of all, as

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<v Speaker 1>an aside, your voice has been in my head all

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<v Speaker 1>week because I've been listening to a phenomenal podcast that

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<v Speaker 1>you contributed to called We Crashed about we Work, And

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<v Speaker 1>maybe we'll talk a little bit about that later. But

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<v Speaker 1>as we were getting ready for the show and watching

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<v Speaker 1>everything that's going on with Twitter this week, both Carol

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<v Speaker 1>and I were saying, we got to get your take

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<v Speaker 1>on this. What's the thing that you're taking away from

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<v Speaker 1>all this sturm and dragging between the President and Twitter. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>so I think I think Twitter's real crime is it

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<v Speaker 1>a share price didn't go up. I think Facebook if

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<v Speaker 1>if Twitter is a dumpster fire of damage to the

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<v Speaker 1>commonwealth and a rage machine, Facebook is a mushroom cloud.

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<v Speaker 1>But Facebook appears who have entered into sort of this

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<v Speaker 1>unholy deal with the President, so it appears that the

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<v Speaker 1>President isn't going after Facebook. I think the opportunity here

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<v Speaker 1>the most elegant regulation his regulation that addresses the externality,

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<v Speaker 1>which is an underlying business model that creates division and

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<v Speaker 1>says hey and team depression and the likes, and at

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<v Speaker 1>the same time unlock shareholder value. I think this is

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<v Speaker 1>an opportunity for Twitter to consider a subscription model. I

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<v Speaker 1>think a large population of us out there who are

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<v Speaker 1>somewhat addicted to Twitter, and organizations to count on it

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<v Speaker 1>to disseminate information would pay money for it. And if

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<v Speaker 1>you look at the three most successful media companies of

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<v Speaker 1>the last ten years, it's Facebook, Google and Netflix. And

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<v Speaker 1>Netflix is not doing damage to our teams or to

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<v Speaker 1>the commonwealth because one is subscription and one is ad driven.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think that's this time to address the underlying

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<v Speaker 1>cancer here and not just the symptoms. And that is

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<v Speaker 1>an ad driven model as opposed to a subscription model.

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<v Speaker 1>And I hope the Twitter board shows some leadership here

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<v Speaker 1>and decides to move to a subscription model because the

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<v Speaker 1>thing that is causing all the problems there is an

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<v Speaker 1>ad base model that encourages rage. Yeah. Well, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's interesting. I was thinking about this, Scott, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the role of social media generally and Twitter in particular.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, is it is it more social you know,

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<v Speaker 1>which means we kind of just let it, let it

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<v Speaker 1>do its thing, or is it more news media you

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<v Speaker 1>know when and that and with that comes responsibilities and accountabilities.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I have to say I love that Twitter.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like funally has a little bit of a

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<v Speaker 1>spine here in terms of saying, there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>information out there, but how do you see it? How

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<v Speaker 1>would you teach it to your students? Well, it is

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<v Speaker 1>a media company that osman media companies and media companies

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<v Speaker 1>have a responsibility and they they do try and be

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<v Speaker 1>They said, we don't want to be the arbit of truth.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think most people want our our media firms

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<v Speaker 1>and companies sitting at the helm of the Bob's let

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<v Speaker 1>of information for the population to at least try to

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<v Speaker 1>be the arbiters of truth. And that in fact, truth

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<v Speaker 1>is a thing. And people immediately go to this notion

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<v Speaker 1>of First Amendment. And what you have on Twitter and

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<v Speaker 1>Facebook is that the more incendiary or damaging a statement,

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<v Speaker 1>the more engagement it creates, and thereby more nissan ads,

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<v Speaker 1>more older values. So you have um antivactors, white supremacists,

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<v Speaker 1>conspiracy theorists who who are getting more than their fair

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<v Speaker 1>share of oxygen because of drive shareholder value. And this

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<v Speaker 1>is kind of the mother of all externalities. And if

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<v Speaker 1>you look at the rise of white white supremacy, if

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<v Speaker 1>you look at extreme nationalism, if you look at the

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<v Speaker 1>demonization of immigrants and incidences around hate crimes, if you

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<v Speaker 1>give those that data set and the rise of social media.

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<v Speaker 1>To a statistician here, she will tell you that the

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<v Speaker 1>two are correlated. And so we have an existential threat

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<v Speaker 1>from the largest platforms ever constructed by man that are

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<v Speaker 1>driven based on an algorithm that tears its social social fabric.

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<v Speaker 1>So the key is how do you maintain the great

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<v Speaker 1>paste that's all the shareholder value. There are some wonderful

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<v Speaker 1>things about these networks, but get rid of the calories

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<v Speaker 1>and that as the rage. And again I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>moving to a subscription model. But I think if you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Jack Dorsey doesn't have an own hot Hooly alliance with

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<v Speaker 1>with Um the president, if his stock had been up tenfold,

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<v Speaker 1>he would have shark repellent in our capitalist society. To

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<v Speaker 1>damage our society is bad, but to not have your

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<v Speaker 1>shares go up as worse. So Twitter is in a

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<v Speaker 1>difficult spot. Well, let's continue our conversation with Scott Galloway,

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<v Speaker 1>Professor of Marketing at n y U s Sturing School

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<v Speaker 1>of Business, New York Times best selling author. His most

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<v Speaker 1>recent book, which he joined our show to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>when it came out, was The Algebrow Happiness Notes in

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<v Speaker 1>the Pursuit of success, love and meaning and Scott, I

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<v Speaker 1>gotta ask you. You know, we talked a lot about

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<v Speaker 1>Twitter and what could be done there, and Facebook and

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<v Speaker 1>what's happening. We've had a lot of conversations with folks

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<v Speaker 1>in Silicon Valley who say Silicon Valley will be forever

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<v Speaker 1>changed by this pandemic, maybe in a good way, maybe not.

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<v Speaker 1>What's your take? It's an interesting question. I think. I

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<v Speaker 1>think there's several dimensions there. I think on a a

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<v Speaker 1>shareholder level, I believe that big tech is going to

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<v Speaker 1>consolidate or further consolidate the market, take advantage of the

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<v Speaker 1>stress and the ecosystem, make some great acquisitions of companies

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<v Speaker 1>that are going to be on sale, and will Facebook

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<v Speaker 1>and Google will emerge from this pandemic Instead of controlling

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<v Speaker 1>sixty cents on the dollar, there control seventy cents on

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<v Speaker 1>the dollar. And I think the market senses this. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you owned a hundred dollars with of Amazon, Apple, Facebook,

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<v Speaker 1>and Google on January one, you know, I think are

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<v Speaker 1>out fourteen or seventeen percent of a year. So the

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<v Speaker 1>pandemic is a calling of the herd, and people are

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<v Speaker 1>betting that the elephants that survive will have more foliage

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<v Speaker 1>posts the calling when the rains return, and the big

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<v Speaker 1>tech will be big winners here. Amazon is about to

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<v Speaker 1>announce the first sort of fully vaccinated supply chain through

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<v Speaker 1>a massive investment in distancing protocols, additional compensation, and they'll

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<v Speaker 1>really be the only firm in the world that can

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<v Speaker 1>offer kind of end to end near COVID free products

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<v Speaker 1>services vendors, which when you think about it, is just

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<v Speaker 1>a staggering opportunity, not like what Disney is trying to

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<v Speaker 1>do with professional sports bringing sports back to sort of

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<v Speaker 1>a COVID free environment in Orlando. So I think on

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<v Speaker 1>a shareholder level, they win. In terms of San Francisco,

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's been a reversal of this incredible trend

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<v Speaker 1>over the last thirty years where human and financial capital

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<v Speaker 1>has flown have fled into cities. As of January, that

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<v Speaker 1>was estimated the two thirds of all economic growth would

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<v Speaker 1>happen in twenty supercities. That has probably been reversed. And

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<v Speaker 1>it's not that San Francisco and New York won't be

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<v Speaker 1>great places to live, are great places to do work.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just they're likely going to see some cost pressure

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<v Speaker 1>and housing prices come down But the places that get

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<v Speaker 1>crushed are the people who had to commute in UH

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<v Speaker 1>and have no reason to be in paying a thousand

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<v Speaker 1>dollars of foot for a home in Grantwich, Connecticut or

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<v Speaker 1>Short Hills. But I can pay three hundred dollars of

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<v Speaker 1>foot in any one of a hundred different suburbs around

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<v Speaker 1>the nation. I think those areas get just crushed. So

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<v Speaker 1>that stays with us, right, We've seen it, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Scott already from the Big Banks talking about you know,

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<v Speaker 1>not bringing work back to the city and creating shops outside,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, in the suburbs of the same thing as

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<v Speaker 1>you said, you know, Silicon Valley, Twitter saying hey, you

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<v Speaker 1>want to work from home permanently, that's okay. So that

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<v Speaker 1>is a significant shift going forward. It is, although it's

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<v Speaker 1>sort of there's a lot of celebration among big tech

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<v Speaker 1>companies employees about work from home and the worrior the

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<v Speaker 1>fear I see is that if Mark Zuckerberg can move

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<v Speaker 1>your job to Denver, he's likely going to move it

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<v Speaker 1>to Bengalore, India. And that is the ability to put

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<v Speaker 1>on a suit, put on you know, UH, to look good,

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<v Speaker 1>get ready, manage the interpersonal relationships navigate and motivated team

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<v Speaker 1>in person, FaceTime politics, whatever you want to call it

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<v Speaker 1>at headquarters is of skill. And to think that people

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<v Speaker 1>are going to get to work from home and go

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<v Speaker 1>to a low cost environment for free is naive. This

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be an opportunity for big tech to

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<v Speaker 1>substantially reduce they're human costs. And what we're gonna end

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<v Speaker 1>up with is the most valuable companies in the world

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<v Speaker 1>with an even smaller full time employee base. Keep in mind,

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<v Speaker 1>the largest work from home company in the world right

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<v Speaker 1>now is Uber. Is that a good thing. Seven million

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<v Speaker 1>of their driver partners technically work from home, and as

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<v Speaker 1>a result, Uber has been able to to skirt minimum

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<v Speaker 1>wage and health insurance regulations. So I think work from

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<v Speaker 1>home is a double edged sword. Yeah, we definitely saw

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<v Speaker 1>the wholes come out because of the virus. I do

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<v Speaker 1>we just got a couple of minutes or so left here, Scott.

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<v Speaker 1>I do want to ask about um your piece in

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<v Speaker 1>the Washington Post where you talked about creating US Corona Court,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, akin to the Peace Corps and some other

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<v Speaker 1>issues missions that are out there. Tell us about that.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's really provocative and could be something that

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<v Speaker 1>really could make a difference. Well, I think there's a

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<v Speaker 1>huge opportunity here, Carol, if you think about our economy

0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.840
<v Speaker 1>is dependent upon pretty much or our society to a

0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.480
<v Speaker 1>certain extent, is dependent upon the apex of the relapse

0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.640
<v Speaker 1>and the fall are hopefully the lack thereof and the

0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.000
<v Speaker 1>flattening the curve, if you will, is simply a function

0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:04.120
<v Speaker 1>of testing, tracing and then isolation. And I would argue

0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.079
<v Speaker 1>the weak link is tracing where we only have tracers

0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.000
<v Speaker 1>in the United States, mostly focused on food born illnesses

0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.280
<v Speaker 1>and STDs, and it's estimated we need between two hundred

0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.240
<v Speaker 1>thousand and four hundred thousand. We also have about a

0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:18.640
<v Speaker 1>third of the four million kids who were supposed to

0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:22.240
<v Speaker 1>show up for a freshman fall classes saying they're thinking

0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.000
<v Speaker 1>about a gap here. So I wonder if there's an

0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.600
<v Speaker 1>opportunity similar to the Peace Corps, similar commission the Latter

0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:31.440
<v Speaker 1>Day Saints, where we arm this kind of army of

0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.319
<v Speaker 1>super soldiers who are largely I don't want to say immune,

0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:38.920
<v Speaker 1>but more resilient to COVID nineteen, train them in handheld technologies,

0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.040
<v Speaker 1>and create an army of tracers similar to what South

0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.440
<v Speaker 1>Korea did to suppress the curve, and not only would

0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.959
<v Speaker 1>we ideally suppress the curve, but maybe award them tuition remission,

0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.960
<v Speaker 1>give them more opportunities for college. And as importantly, the

0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.679
<v Speaker 1>reason we were able to pass such incredible brown, groundbreaking

0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:00.319
<v Speaker 1>legislation in the fifties, sixties, and seventies is over somewhere

0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.400
<v Speaker 1>we're going to happen. Two thirds of our leaders elected

0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.400
<v Speaker 1>leaders have served in uniform together where they put country

0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:07.680
<v Speaker 1>in front of politics, and I think we need that

0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:11.480
<v Speaker 1>sort of reunification, if you will, and recognition that greatness

0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:13.480
<v Speaker 1>is in the agency of others. And I think it's

0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.200
<v Speaker 1>time to have a core of young people who serve

0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:22.280
<v Speaker 1>their country. Yeah, there's been a tremendous disconnect um with that, UM, Scott,

0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.160
<v Speaker 1>thank you so much. Truthfully, Jason and I were still

0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:26.800
<v Speaker 1>looking forward to getting some time with you, and I

0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.760
<v Speaker 1>really appreciate it, UM, and I wish we had kind

0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.000
<v Speaker 1>of another hour to talk with Scott. Take care of Scott,

0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.439
<v Speaker 1>be well, uh and stay safe. Scott Galloway, Professor of

0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:38.320
<v Speaker 1>n y U Stern School of Business, on the phone

0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.360
<v Speaker 1>in Delway Beach, Florida. His books the best seller The

0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.280
<v Speaker 1>for the Hidden DNA of Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google,

0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.560
<v Speaker 1>and do check out the algebra of Happiness, pursuit of success,

0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:49.920
<v Speaker 1>love and what it all means. As I mentioned, there's

0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.600
<v Speaker 1>a great video to out there online. Thanks so much

0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.520
<v Speaker 1>for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes,

0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.120
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