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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm

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Speaker 1: Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the

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Speaker 1: latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics,

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Speaker 1: all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors

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Speaker 1: and of course Carol that's part of a team of

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Speaker 1: twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts and more than a

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, o Bloomberg dot com. You

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Speaker 1: can also listen to our radio show at two pm

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Speaker 1: Eastern on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on

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Speaker 1: YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. You're listening to Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: Bomberg Business Week, Yeah, Friday, wrapping up the week, close

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Speaker 1: to it. What do you make it this week? Um man?

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot more about kind of getting

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Speaker 1: back to work and getting back to normal. I still

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Speaker 1: think the city is going to be tricky for us,

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Speaker 1: but I think, you know, we hit it off with

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Speaker 1: a really smart medical conversation. I think it's in our

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Speaker 1: weekend show. But it just you know, Manhattan versus the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world. So we know Manhattan's trickier just

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Speaker 1: because of the amount of people and just the structure

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Speaker 1: of how we work in a very dense city. But

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Speaker 1: I do feel up more optimism, and we certainly saw

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Speaker 1: it play out in the markets. I mean, the Dow

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Speaker 1: up three point seven this week, the S and P

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Speaker 1: Jason up more than three percent, and the Now's up

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Speaker 1: two percent, so there definitely was some enthusiasm in the markets.

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Speaker 1: I do worry though about some of these other tensions,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know how much is because it's an

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Speaker 1: election year, or how much is some real tensions that

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Speaker 1: might complicate the economy bouncing back. Yeah, I worry about

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Speaker 1: those tensions too. I mean I worry about the tensions

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Speaker 1: that are geopolitical. I worry about the tensions that are domestic,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I think we all have watched

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Speaker 1: with you know, horror, everything that went on uh in Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, you sort of factor in the

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Speaker 1: social media aspect of this, and you know, Twitter has

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Speaker 1: been at the four of all of that. And man,

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Speaker 1: do we have the perfect person to talk about that.

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Speaker 1: I have to say our next guest, I was gonna

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Speaker 1: energize when we talk with him. He's New York Times

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Speaker 1: bestseller his book The Four The Hidden DNA of Amazon, Apple, Facebook,

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Speaker 1: and Google. He also wrote The Algebra of Happiness, which

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Speaker 1: if you have not read you should. You should also

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Speaker 1: check out his video that's online. Uh. He's professor at

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Speaker 1: n y use Stern School of Business. Delighted to have

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Speaker 1: back with us, Scott Galloway, professor as we said, at

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Speaker 1: the school. And he's on the phone in Delray Beach, Florida. Scott,

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Speaker 1: So nice to have you here with us. How are

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Speaker 1: you doing? Has your family, has your team? Everybody? I hope? Okay, um, well,

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Speaker 1: thanks very much, Carl. Good to be with you. That's

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Speaker 1: a generous question. Yeah, we're all. We're all doing really well.

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Speaker 1: I think this is if you're blessed to have a job,

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Speaker 1: if you can work from home, if you're healthy, and

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Speaker 1: if you're and I check all those boxes, you're doing great. Well.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, Jason, Well, I was just going to say,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we were getting ready for this show today, Scott.

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Speaker 1: And as a veteran broadcaster podcaster, first of all, as

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Speaker 1: an aside, your voice has been in my head all

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Speaker 1: week because I've been listening to a phenomenal podcast that

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Speaker 1: you contributed to called We Crashed about we Work, And

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Speaker 1: maybe we'll talk a little bit about that later. But

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Speaker 1: as we were getting ready for the show and watching

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Speaker 1: everything that's going on with Twitter this week, both Carol

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Speaker 1: and I were saying, we got to get your take

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Speaker 1: on this. What's the thing that you're taking away from

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Speaker 1: all this sturm and dragging between the President and Twitter. Well,

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Speaker 1: so I think I think Twitter's real crime is it

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Speaker 1: a share price didn't go up. I think Facebook if

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Speaker 1: if Twitter is a dumpster fire of damage to the

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Speaker 1: commonwealth and a rage machine, Facebook is a mushroom cloud.

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Speaker 1: But Facebook appears who have entered into sort of this

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Speaker 1: unholy deal with the President, so it appears that the

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Speaker 1: President isn't going after Facebook. I think the opportunity here

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Speaker 1: the most elegant regulation his regulation that addresses the externality,

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Speaker 1: which is an underlying business model that creates division and

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Speaker 1: says hey and team depression and the likes, and at

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Speaker 1: the same time unlock shareholder value. I think this is

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Speaker 1: an opportunity for Twitter to consider a subscription model. I

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Speaker 1: think a large population of us out there who are

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Speaker 1: somewhat addicted to Twitter, and organizations to count on it

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Speaker 1: to disseminate information would pay money for it. And if

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Speaker 1: you look at the three most successful media companies of

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Speaker 1: the last ten years, it's Facebook, Google and Netflix. And

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Speaker 1: Netflix is not doing damage to our teams or to

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Speaker 1: the commonwealth because one is subscription and one is ad driven.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's this time to address the underlying

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Speaker 1: cancer here and not just the symptoms. And that is

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Speaker 1: an ad driven model as opposed to a subscription model.

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Speaker 1: And I hope the Twitter board shows some leadership here

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Speaker 1: and decides to move to a subscription model because the

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Speaker 1: thing that is causing all the problems there is an

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Speaker 1: ad base model that encourages rage. Yeah. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting. I was thinking about this, Scott, you know,

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Speaker 1: the role of social media generally and Twitter in particular.

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Speaker 1: You know, is it is it more social you know,

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Speaker 1: which means we kind of just let it, let it

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Speaker 1: do its thing, or is it more news media you

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Speaker 1: know when and that and with that comes responsibilities and accountabilities.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I have to say I love that Twitter.

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Speaker 1: I feel like funally has a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: spine here in terms of saying, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: information out there, but how do you see it? How

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Speaker 1: would you teach it to your students? Well, it is

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Speaker 1: a media company that osman media companies and media companies

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Speaker 1: have a responsibility and they they do try and be

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Speaker 1: They said, we don't want to be the arbit of truth.

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Speaker 1: And I think most people want our our media firms

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Speaker 1: and companies sitting at the helm of the Bob's let

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Speaker 1: of information for the population to at least try to

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Speaker 1: be the arbiters of truth. And that in fact, truth

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Speaker 1: is a thing. And people immediately go to this notion

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Speaker 1: of First Amendment. And what you have on Twitter and

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Speaker 1: Facebook is that the more incendiary or damaging a statement,

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Speaker 1: the more engagement it creates, and thereby more nissan ads,

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Speaker 1: more older values. So you have um antivactors, white supremacists,

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theorists who who are getting more than their fair

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Speaker 1: share of oxygen because of drive shareholder value. And this

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Speaker 1: is kind of the mother of all externalities. And if

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Speaker 1: you look at the rise of white white supremacy, if

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Speaker 1: you look at extreme nationalism, if you look at the

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Speaker 1: demonization of immigrants and incidences around hate crimes, if you

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Speaker 1: give those that data set and the rise of social media.

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Speaker 1: To a statistician here, she will tell you that the

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Speaker 1: two are correlated. And so we have an existential threat

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Speaker 1: from the largest platforms ever constructed by man that are

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Speaker 1: driven based on an algorithm that tears its social social fabric.

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Speaker 1: So the key is how do you maintain the great

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Speaker 1: paste that's all the shareholder value. There are some wonderful

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Speaker 1: things about these networks, but get rid of the calories

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Speaker 1: and that as the rage. And again I think it's

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Speaker 1: moving to a subscription model. But I think if you know,

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Speaker 1: Jack Dorsey doesn't have an own hot Hooly alliance with

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Speaker 1: with Um the president, if his stock had been up tenfold,

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Speaker 1: he would have shark repellent in our capitalist society. To

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Speaker 1: damage our society is bad, but to not have your

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Speaker 1: shares go up as worse. So Twitter is in a

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Speaker 1: difficult spot. Well, let's continue our conversation with Scott Galloway,

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Speaker 1: Professor of Marketing at n y U s Sturing School

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Speaker 1: of Business, New York Times best selling author. His most

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Speaker 1: recent book, which he joined our show to talk about

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Speaker 1: when it came out, was The Algebrow Happiness Notes in

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Speaker 1: the Pursuit of success, love and meaning and Scott, I

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Speaker 1: gotta ask you. You know, we talked a lot about

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Speaker 1: Twitter and what could be done there, and Facebook and

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Speaker 1: what's happening. We've had a lot of conversations with folks

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Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley who say Silicon Valley will be forever

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Speaker 1: changed by this pandemic, maybe in a good way, maybe not.

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Speaker 1: What's your take? It's an interesting question. I think. I

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Speaker 1: think there's several dimensions there. I think on a a

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Speaker 1: shareholder level, I believe that big tech is going to

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Speaker 1: consolidate or further consolidate the market, take advantage of the

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Speaker 1: stress and the ecosystem, make some great acquisitions of companies

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Speaker 1: that are going to be on sale, and will Facebook

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Speaker 1: and Google will emerge from this pandemic Instead of controlling

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Speaker 1: sixty cents on the dollar, there control seventy cents on

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Speaker 1: the dollar. And I think the market senses this. And

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Speaker 1: if you owned a hundred dollars with of Amazon, Apple, Facebook,

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Speaker 1: and Google on January one, you know, I think are

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Speaker 1: out fourteen or seventeen percent of a year. So the

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Speaker 1: pandemic is a calling of the herd, and people are

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Speaker 1: betting that the elephants that survive will have more foliage

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Speaker 1: posts the calling when the rains return, and the big

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Speaker 1: tech will be big winners here. Amazon is about to

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Speaker 1: announce the first sort of fully vaccinated supply chain through

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Speaker 1: a massive investment in distancing protocols, additional compensation, and they'll

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Speaker 1: really be the only firm in the world that can

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Speaker 1: offer kind of end to end near COVID free products

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Speaker 1: services vendors, which when you think about it, is just

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Speaker 1: a staggering opportunity, not like what Disney is trying to

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Speaker 1: do with professional sports bringing sports back to sort of

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Speaker 1: a COVID free environment in Orlando. So I think on

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Speaker 1: a shareholder level, they win. In terms of San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: I think there's been a reversal of this incredible trend

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Speaker 1: over the last thirty years where human and financial capital

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Speaker 1: has flown have fled into cities. As of January, that

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Speaker 1: was estimated the two thirds of all economic growth would

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Speaker 1: happen in twenty supercities. That has probably been reversed. And

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Speaker 1: it's not that San Francisco and New York won't be

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Speaker 1: great places to live, are great places to do work.

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Speaker 1: It's just they're likely going to see some cost pressure

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Speaker 1: and housing prices come down But the places that get

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Speaker 1: crushed are the people who had to commute in UH

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Speaker 1: and have no reason to be in paying a thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars of foot for a home in Grantwich, Connecticut or

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Speaker 1: Short Hills. But I can pay three hundred dollars of

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Speaker 1: foot in any one of a hundred different suburbs around

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Speaker 1: the nation. I think those areas get just crushed. So

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Speaker 1: that stays with us, right, We've seen it, you know,

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Speaker 1: Scott already from the Big Banks talking about you know,

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Speaker 1: not bringing work back to the city and creating shops outside,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the suburbs of the same thing as

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Speaker 1: you said, you know, Silicon Valley, Twitter saying hey, you

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Speaker 1: want to work from home permanently, that's okay. So that

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Speaker 1: is a significant shift going forward. It is, although it's

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Speaker 1: sort of there's a lot of celebration among big tech

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Speaker 1: companies employees about work from home and the worrior the

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Speaker 1: fear I see is that if Mark Zuckerberg can move

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Speaker 1: your job to Denver, he's likely going to move it

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Speaker 1: to Bengalore, India. And that is the ability to put

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Speaker 1: on a suit, put on you know, UH, to look good,

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Speaker 1: get ready, manage the interpersonal relationships navigate and motivated team

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Speaker 1: in person, FaceTime politics, whatever you want to call it

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Speaker 1: at headquarters is of skill. And to think that people

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Speaker 1: are going to get to work from home and go

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Speaker 1: to a low cost environment for free is naive. This

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Speaker 1: is going to be an opportunity for big tech to

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Speaker 1: substantially reduce they're human costs. And what we're gonna end

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Speaker 1: up with is the most valuable companies in the world

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Speaker 1: with an even smaller full time employee base. Keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: the largest work from home company in the world right

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Speaker 1: now is Uber. Is that a good thing. Seven million

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Speaker 1: of their driver partners technically work from home, and as

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Speaker 1: a result, Uber has been able to to skirt minimum

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Speaker 1: wage and health insurance regulations. So I think work from

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Speaker 1: home is a double edged sword. Yeah, we definitely saw

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Speaker 1: the wholes come out because of the virus. I do

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Speaker 1: we just got a couple of minutes or so left here, Scott.

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Speaker 1: I do want to ask about um your piece in

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post where you talked about creating US Corona Court,

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Speaker 1: you know, akin to the Peace Corps and some other

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Speaker 1: issues missions that are out there. Tell us about that.

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Speaker 1: I think it's really provocative and could be something that

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Speaker 1: really could make a difference. Well, I think there's a

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Speaker 1: huge opportunity here, Carol, if you think about our economy

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Speaker 1: is dependent upon pretty much or our society to a

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Speaker 1: certain extent, is dependent upon the apex of the relapse

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Speaker 1: and the fall are hopefully the lack thereof and the

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Speaker 1: flattening the curve, if you will, is simply a function

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Speaker 1: of testing, tracing and then isolation. And I would argue

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Speaker 1: the weak link is tracing where we only have tracers

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Speaker 1: in the United States, mostly focused on food born illnesses

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Speaker 1: and STDs, and it's estimated we need between two hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand and four hundred thousand. We also have about a

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Speaker 1: third of the four million kids who were supposed to

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Speaker 1: show up for a freshman fall classes saying they're thinking

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Speaker 1: about a gap here. So I wonder if there's an

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Speaker 1: opportunity similar to the Peace Corps, similar commission the Latter

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Speaker 1: Day Saints, where we arm this kind of army of

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Speaker 1: super soldiers who are largely I don't want to say immune,

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Speaker 1: but more resilient to COVID nineteen, train them in handheld technologies,

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Speaker 1: and create an army of tracers similar to what South

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Speaker 1: Korea did to suppress the curve, and not only would

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Speaker 1: we ideally suppress the curve, but maybe award them tuition remission,

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Speaker 1: give them more opportunities for college. And as importantly, the

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Speaker 1: reason we were able to pass such incredible brown, groundbreaking

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Speaker 1: legislation in the fifties, sixties, and seventies is over somewhere

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Speaker 1: we're going to happen. Two thirds of our leaders elected

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Speaker 1: leaders have served in uniform together where they put country

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Speaker 1: in front of politics, and I think we need that

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Speaker 1: sort of reunification, if you will, and recognition that greatness

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Speaker 1: is in the agency of others. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: time to have a core of young people who serve

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Speaker 1: their country. Yeah, there's been a tremendous disconnect um with that, UM, Scott,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much. Truthfully, Jason and I were still

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Speaker 1: looking forward to getting some time with you, and I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate it, UM, and I wish we had kind

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Speaker 1: of another hour to talk with Scott. Take care of Scott,

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Speaker 1: be well, uh and stay safe. Scott Galloway, Professor of

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Speaker 1: n y U Stern School of Business, on the phone

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Speaker 1: in Delway Beach, Florida. His books the best seller The

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Speaker 1: for the Hidden DNA of Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google,

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Speaker 1: and do check out the algebra of Happiness, pursuit of success,

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Speaker 1: love and what it all means. As I mentioned, there's

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Speaker 1: a great video to out there online. Thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes,

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Speaker 1: radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or

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